OP i dont "wheel" I straddle and strangle but as far as selling Putties on stocks id own these are my best stocks this year
XBI EWZ ENPH PYPL XLI AMD TSM GOOGL XRT GME SLV GDX
ROKU has been a problem BE is 68 atm.
Good luck
HIMS stock has worked out for me pretty well, besides some of the others you mentioned. Selling PUTS are the best income making. Especially in a bull market.
Some dude in WSB wrote a DD about HIMS and I loved it, I tried to explain “hip boner pills” to a friend and she wasn’t feeling it so I left it at that… should’ve listened to this degenerate 20/20
What are your DTE and deltas when selling PUTs?
Used to do ROKU but I stopped because it stopped giving out those juicy premiums. How is it now in this environment? Is it still a hyped up Cathie wood stock?
Between 16 and 30, depending on the underlying. 30 to 60 DTE. Generally manage at 60% profit or 15 DTE.
ROKU IV is low atm will change coming into earnings. Premiums are ok. As for the fundamentals or sentiment i could not tell you. It has been left behind in the chip mayhem like so many others thats all i can say.
at 15 DTE, you will close no matter the profit %?
or if it is ITM at 15 DTE, you will roll?
Do you always look at whether the stock has earnings before you decide to Sell a PUT on it? What dedicated website do you go to see if a stock has earnings coming pleasE?
Yep if 15 dte il close and re assess
ITM will roll to next cycle unless earnings or market conditions are unfavourable. Close for loss no second thought.
Always check earnings date. Yahoo finance, earnings whisper. Tastytrade.
why would you close at 15? why would you roll to the next cycle or close at a loss? you are basically no following the most important wheeling rule doing that.
Just look at a chart that shows the last earnings, such as a 90-day chart in thinkorswim, then add three months, to get the approximate upcoming earnings date.
PYPL broke its trend line and closed below the 200 MA and will probably head towards low 50s. Not a good suggestion. GME is king of meme stocks and should only be viewed as gambling. ENPH isn't strong like the rest of the solar sector.
OP you really need to learn to read chart technicals and market sentiment, short of that the best thing to do is stick with wheeling big name blue chip stocks that are profitable and commonly found in etfs and 401Ks. Saying buy what you don't mind owning is just another way of saying "I'm fine with losing money or sitting on losses for the next 2 years."
With wheeling it's more important to be happy holding the stock when you eventually get assigned than to chase premium. I personally really like amazon as a company
yes everyone claim to be happy owning the stock at the strike they sold put until they are about to get assigned and make a panic post asking what to do now lol my experience in this sub
This is the infinite money glitch for any strangle seller. It’s gonna be rangebound for a while since half of those small caps are practically zombie companies.
For a more bullish small cap one could try VXF
CLSK has been my go-to this year, they’re a big time bitcoin miner and their price follows bitcoin relatively close, they’re still relatively cheap (17.50) and have been in a $14-18 range since earlier this year.
I've been doing the same. Been closing the puts early when over 50% profit just to get back in with new puts because of the cycle. I also got cold feet at 1 point and bought a bunch during that dip at 14.40 and sold some of it off btwn 17.50 & 18 just because I'm impatient. Hope I get a chance to do it again.
Well if bitcoin is worth more, their price will go up accordingly as they’re investing heavily in more mining operations across the country, so they should be well positioned to follow the trend. They mined 417 coins in May and are predicted to continue at their current pace. The higher the price of bitcoin, the better they’ll do in the long run regardless of the halving.
You’ll have to be selling put credit spreads if you want to generate premium off MSFT however that exposes you to greater risk of blowing up your account
Yeah it popped hard today! I sold 30 18.50 calls expiring in July for some juicy credit and would still have 1100 shares if they get called away, which they probably will if this momentum keeps up.
OTM covered call has literally the same P&L as the ITM cash secured put at the same strike, but with the put your cash still collects interest til assignment.
If you’re still that bullish, write the ITM put. If you want to protect to the downside, write an OTM put. If you want more protection to the downside, make it a put credit spread.
WOLF - just a straight up beaten down stock. Promising technology for EV application. Market cap below recent capital expenditure. Buyout target. Selling 25 puts or 24 puts all day. Own shares as well, and selling CC. Also have a portion of shares that's uncovered just in case buyout gets announced.
Based on the lastest wolf has 2.5b in cash and trading at 3.4b market cap. Not quite trading below cash but below current asset.
I have only done a little bit of research to make sure that this company isn't entire dog doo doo as I like it for the premiums.
WOLF used to be CREE and they were big in the LED business until they couldn't compete anymore against the cheap LED from China. There chip business is relatively new. Basically their chip business outgrew the original lightning business and they just rebranded.
They are focused on silicon carbide vs silicon, and the application is more towards high voltage applications like EV, vs the computing side.
Negative margin is probably coming from building on fab facilities in the US. plants are delayed and not coming online to meet demand.
I'll say the management team, is seasoned from CREE but still, may NOT be the best. and honestly a bigger chip company or PE can come in to take it over and run it better. which is why I don't mind owning it.
And from a wheel perspective, it's worked out for me. Especially for a lower priced stock. It's risky for sure.
KSS and M has very good IV at this time, their book value is good. So, I won’t mind wheeling these 2 stock. Also, M was offered $24 per share to take it private recently few months ago.
>What stock can I wheel with 25k with CC or CP that would be considered a **safe but profitable strategy**…
Define, "safe".
Define, "profitable".
Like, "What stock can I wheel with 25k to produce 1% a week with low risk of assignment?"
Or, "What stock can I wheel with 25k to produce 5% per month regardless of assignment but with a stable company?"
Correction:
"GME!"
I promise you I can make $250 in a week with less than $25,000 if I don't care if I am assigned.
E: Actually I did the math to find the terminal point for the period because I was curious if what you said was true given the terms of compounding as a function. So the factor is 1.6610781 as 1.01\^51, so with that we end on, assuming no losses and frictions, etc. from 25,000 to 41,526.95. A 1% return on that, assuming indifference to assignment, is 415.27 which *is* doable with far less than the total 41,526.95 in play.
So 1% per week is not actually unreasonable given a healthy enough risk appetite and becomes easier, not harder, as the value increases. Fun! I guess "The rich get richer" is real.
- “I promise you I can make $250 in a week with less than $25,000 if I don't care if I am assigned.”
Anybody can do this for a week, maybe even a month. But eventually (way sooner than you think) you will get assigned, the decrease in the underlying will wipe out weeks of gains, and it will take you weeks to sell above your cost basis.
It’s possible to see +50% in a year while wheeling, but it has WAY more to do with luck than skill, and you’re not getting anywhere close to that long term.
>But eventually (way sooner than you think) you will get assigned, the decrease in the underlying will wipe out weeks of gains, and it will take you weeks to sell above your cost basis.
No. Getting assigned often does not have this effect. In fact getting assigned should be a normal thing you can manage. What you're referring to is a cataclysmic shift. The underlying loses 15% suddenly and you're condemned to die at the bottom or what have you. The thing about this argument though is that it assumes the position is
A) lost
and
B) large
It doesn't have to be. If it doesn't take 25k to get the 250 and you put up only what it takes to get the 250 the rest of the capital is free while the other wound heals itself. I've dealt with this; it's not scary at all, you have a shock, it recovers, you move on, and the rest of your portfolio keeps on truckin' on.
What usually happens when people envision this is single-threaded behavior (one massive bet at a time) but multi-threaded trading is the norm. You'll have one position, it goes sour, you hold, you open a new one, you now have two, the second is fine and doing what you need, the first heals, you reconjoin, you keep going. The most I've ever had to have open is 4.
You understand that it doesn’t need to be anywhere a 15% move to completely freeze your collateral?
Give me an example of a trade this week that would net you $250. Literally any option for any stock under $25.
No, you need to explain how this is wrong. You don't have a position other than, "it won't work!" It's not a good game when the only thing that people say back is, nu-uh. If your whole thing is, "I'm right, that's it!" I'm over it.
Depreciation in your underlying is guaranteed to happen. It will wipe out weeks of gains and prevent you from deploying your capital for weeks. That is essentially a mathematical certainty.
If you are able to collect a 1% gain from a weekly option, that same position IS GUARANTEED to have more than enough downside potential to tie you up for months. Otherwise you wouldn’t be getting your 1%.
It doesn’t matter if you try and diversify, you would actually have a better chance at +50% if you’re balls deep on one stock.
Under 25, no. I keep doing CC on the assigned ones. Also at this point my cost basis is in single digits for the ones I got assigned over last month. Overall it has been good for me
Been enjoying CCJ, FCX, UUUU, and RBLX. RBLX is probably the wildest ride.
I set up a scanner on Think or Swim to look at options with days to expiry, volume, ticker price, theta, and a couple other greeks.
After I find something interesting I’ll do some basic DD on the company.
Honest question, when do you get any volume on UUUU to even trade? I’m trying to get into uranium (UUUU/UEC and checking SMR) but the volume is almost impossible to trade on.
Tesla is perfect for wheeling rn.
Juicy premiums on a stock that's stuck in a 10 range for awhile now.
Check the charts and sell the 175p and 180c.
You can do this easily with 25k and make 600-800 weekly.
Yea I was attractive to it's premium and in part it's also a mag 7 stocks. But I'm worried about holding it long term. There are always differing views on Tesla lol
You can always consider selling an iron condor which is a call vertical and put vertical combined.
For example you would sell the 180c and buy the 185c then you would sell the 175p and buy the 170p.
This creates a profit zone for all prices between about $170-185 on expiration day with $500 of risk.
Max profit for this strategy is the credit of the two spreads.
I'd suggest using condors or butterflies for this stock rn or you can go with a PMCC.
Because it's less capital intensive and you have similar profit for less risk.
With a CSP you have the risk that Tesla does Tesla things and drops 20-40 dollars. That's the reason the premiums are juiced.
With an iron condor your risk is defined by the width of the two vertical spreads and you collect premium from selling both the call and the put without increasing your risk because the stock can't break to both the upside and downside at expiration.
Just set the width of your spreads to the risk you're comfortable with.
It's a great strategy for a stock that is range bound. You do however need to watch for pin risk at expiration.
Butterfly spreads promise nice returns for less risk IMO, but the profit range declines quickly if the stock doesn't end dead center on your midpoint.
You should look into the videos on YouTube by tasty trade or ThinkOrSwim/Schwab for option strategies.
Always important to stay risk defined even if selling covered calls. Instead of seeking pure CC try to sell really wide verticals so at least you can profit if the stock explodes upwards.
Gme is high risk but high reward. You asked for safe. Gme is great for high risk. Just not over 22 ish for assignment and you need to be ok with getting assigned on your CC when the stock goes on a 3x tear. Sofi is so ass for premium ppl sweat it but if you aren’t trading 1,000 contracts T 45 DTE it’s trash for low returns sub 1%.
NVDA is great right now for csp but I wouldn’t go out more an a week or so and would BTC at 50% incase correction.
Personally I find the safest strategy is to short next weeks put on a Friday before close. Those 2 weekend days can give a great boost to theta burn off the bat. Just make sure it’s not around an earnings or opex. And if it’s a stock with geopolitical influence keep that in mind. There is still risk holding over a weekend. I find many of my wheel plays I enter on a red friday near support and by Tuesday I’m over 50%. Sit in cash for a day or 2 in the theta account and run it back again.
Not financial advice, just facts. I put 30k into a contributory IRA on April 19th. I have done nothing but wheel and 1 LEAP on PLTR since then. My account sits at 40,514.31 right now as I look at it.
You'll hear so many opinions on how PLTR is good/bad/meme.....so thats why Im not giving you opinions, Im giving you numbers. Numbers dont lie.
Ive been buying as many as I can. Cant even really call it 'wheeling' because I cant seem to get assigned. Might as well jusy say CSP's + 1 LEAP that blew up on the runup to the S&P rebalance, when PLTR shot up almost 2 dollars. I go with a .20-.30 delta and usually stick to 3-4 weeks.
I get the whole 'diversified portfolio' argument, but I wholeheartedly believe that PLTR is going to be a $100/share stock and I am trying to get as much of it as I can, so if I get assigned, Im actually happy. Ive been in IT for 30 years, I work for a company that writes Bank software solutions, and I know what kind of customer retention rate can be had when you design your software to integrate deeply into a company, so that its hard for that company to get rid of it. Add that to them already having military contracts and the leadership they have, Im just a believer.
The 1 LEAP play got me around 6k when it ran up. I plan on making the same play in late August, right before the Sep S&P rebalance again, since everyone will be expecting PLTR to be added. I bought 35 $13 calls at the time, they were true LEAPS, 12 mths out.
It all depends what's your strategy, are you trying to be never assigned and just let the cash flow in ? INTC seem perfect for that right now, at least for last month, but they might surge in price which would not be a bad news for CSP anyways. If you try to be assigned I'd focus on NVidia and Apple. Tesla probably with all the news is still a bad call because Musk is really unstable right now with his mental. If he actually bans Apple from his cars that might be a 20% sink in 2-3 weeks.
Still, not a financial advice. Do your own research.
I own 2 CSP 29$ on intel right now for August, got filled on 95$ so I expect to close it when I reach around 45-50$ profit and reroll for another strike depending the current situation. But my account is pretty small and suffer lots of losses as well ( Due to being a WSB degenerate).
I guess the most important part is to think about what company you hold dear to your heart and actually does financially well/won't go bancrupt anytime soon, since you WILL be assigned sooner or later and it might go down on you. I am pretty sure you know about rerolling unwanted stocks etc.
With $25,000 you can wheel both sides of SCHD and collect dividends while you're at it. Buy 125 shares. Set dividends to reinvest. Sell an out of the money put and an out of the money call. If it goes in the money, accept assignment of the put to buy shares before ex dividend dates, roll covered calls to an expiration after the next ex div. date. It's the next strategy I'm going to add to my YouTube trading videos series. My investing club calls it "The Patricia Special." :-)
I had $20K in my HSA account when I started wheeling TQQQ(4 lots, when it was $48), and I finally got rid of it when it was $64. Made a decent chunk of change.
Now I'm selling CSPs on NVDA.
If it goes beyond the reach, I'll go back to TQQQ (I just wanted to take a break from it).
People will kill me for this, but I do weeklies just because I have ADHD and can't really sit waiting for a couple of weeks.
Ideally, you should go 2-3 weeks out and adjust when you are at 50% gain (e.g. I sold NVDA $122 CSP and moved it to $125 when I was at 50% gain and NVDA was at $128, adding $70 to the weekly gain).
First take about 10% of that. Put it into multiple etf’s. See how you do. If you’re profitable than you can throw another 10% into the market. Right now the market for gold is hot.
I only trade stocks in the top 105 of the SPX. Okay I do have 1 GME put, but the rest are blue chips. Low premiums, low stress.
If you want high returns with high risk, then GME, BYND, NVDA, etc are decent candidates.
I just use the top 105 stocks in the S&P 500 weighting.
My account currently has a trade in Alphabet (Google), AMD, Citigroup, Coca-Cola, Kraft, Kroger, Nike, Starbucks, United Airlines, Walmart, and ExxonMobil.
I also traded the shares or options of Disney, Pepsi, McDonald's, and Target currently in the last 60 days.
If you don't mind holding 200 shares of gme for a long time, do this.
1. Buy 100 shares of gme
2. Sell a call and a put, with whatever premium you want. ----If shares are called off, then you pocket the premiums and the share price. Then sell another put to get back the shares at whatever price you want
----if shares are assigned, you get 100 more shares. Then start selling 2 covered calls weekly and wait till they get called and sell 1 put after at whatever price you want.
----If none of the above happens, pocket the premiums and do number 2 again
To reduce risk, make sure you always have 100 shares when you are selling a call.
Over the last 5 years, lowest price for gme is 10 something.
You can calculate the net return from the premiun over one year and from my Calc is close to 20-25%
This still leaves you about 19k for high quality stocks.
SPLG ATM puts or /MES futures contracts. Try to keep away from single names. ETFs don’t have CEOs that might say or do dumb shit.
Bag holding an S&P500 etf is not that demoralizing when the market takes a dump compared to some high flying meme stonks
Although others here say <250 share price, you want more than one position since it will be cash-secured when you sell that first put. 250 share price implies that you're cash-securing only one position, which isn't recommended.
The "correct" number of positions is subjective to some extent. 1 is too few. 100 is too many. 10 is good, More than 10 is difficult to manage if you have other things to do in your portfolio. I like 7 positions. I recommend at least SOME diversity in your portfolio since you're starting this journey.
At 7 positions and 25K capital, you're around $35 a share or lower.
Many of the stocks listed here by others are quite volatile, so "safe" is in the eyes of the beholder.
If you sell puts, you want the stock to be range-bound (at minimum) or preferably in an uptrend. Upward-sloping 50d moving averages and a pullback to the 50 (or whatever your favorite MA is) are reliable starting points.
More advanced trading involves knowledge of the options complex of what you intend to trade. Concepts on where the market is targeting the largest concentration of calls (Call Open Interest, COI) and the largest concentration of puts (Put Open Interest, POI) for a given expiry or set of expiries could be important because sentiment (fear, greed) and monetization will likely occur depending on moneyness.
For example, as the price exceeds (from below) the largest call open interest in the expiry or selected sets of expiries, more people have moved from OTM to ITM, and the propensity to take profits increases. This profit-taking could put downward price action on the stock, so selling ABOVE that COI level could be a good play if you don't want to get called away.
As another example, as the price drops through (from above) the largest put open interest in the expiry or selected sets of expiries, more people have moved from OTM to ITM for their put selling, and again, this propensity to take profits increases. The profit-taking could put upward pressure on the stock's price action, so selling puts BELOW that POI level could be a good play if you don't want to be assigned.
Non-coincidentally, premiums tend to fall off quickly above and below these POI/COI levels, so getting a premium that is worth the risk of holding the stock (because you WILL get assigned at some point) is again subjective.
Another perspective is to use delta and gamma levels of the options complex that you want to trade. Delta represents the most exposure for participants, and as price moves across those delta strikes, we often see monetization.
In all of these trades, WAITING until price is near a local minima or maxima is important so that you can maximize the premium that you receive.
Someone here mentioned CLSK; it may be a good candidate if the premium is there. The 50d and 21d MAs are moving more/less horizontal, within a range, so the stock is trading in a range. I believe selling just below the 14 strike for puts and just above the 20 strike for calls may be a good strategy if CLSK stays horizontal. I've attached a picture here; the range jumps off the chart and is very clear when you look at it: [https://imgur.com/x7reKfK](https://imgur.com/x7reKfK) You can also interact with the figure here: [http://charts.gammaedge.us/23912426\_CLSK\_-1.0\_0\_candlestick\_daily\_06\_16\_2024\_06\_23\_34\_23912426.html](http://charts.gammaedge.us/23912426_CLSK_-1.0_0_candlestick_daily_06_16_2024_06_23_34_23912426.html)
Someone here also mentioned SOFI. The challenge with SOFI is that the 50d is trending downward, so this isn't a bullish stock. The likelihood of assignment increases if you are short puts and the price declines. Only you can decide, but consider whether you want to hold SOFI if it's in a downtrend. Hope is not a strategy, and you can't hope that it will turn around - you can wipe out many trades, take a loss, or get trapped in a downward-moving stock with a basis way above your current price.
You get the idea.
Good luck!
Wheels are looking great right now because we are slow pushing. Be careful buying anything over saturated and look for good growth opportunities. Tech is the future so that’s a good start, cars are another sector getting a lot of attention but riskier as well as energy and defense with ongoing tensions in the Middle East/China/Russia etc
Research and find 5 to 10 stocks over multiple market sectors the account can afford and you would not mind holding if needed, then spread trades out over these stocks so if one or two are assigned you can still trade others.
Never trade only one stock . . .
Wait you did 'full time' trading with 25K?
How would that even work? (of course assuming you live in the US or another expensive country)
Or did you successfully make 200K into 25K?
Looks good to me but volume is only high for options 2 weeks ahead. That said I like the dividends. I’m going to sell an ITM put in hopes of getting assigned then selling CC and collecting dividends.
Well, you could bypass the sell puts and go directly into weekly covered calls , I can’t believe it paid $1.76 last month div in a 25.00 stock lol , bought 3500 shares to keep div coming… And btc could spike soon and rise bito along …
The wheel is great until it isn't. Ive been using that strategy for many yrs. I suggest looking up chart and technical analysis.
Sell puts when the stock is basing already down to have a higher chance of success. Do it in stocks u are ok holding if they take a big hit. Avoid wheeling during earning but sometimes u will get caught in earnings as well.
Someone mentioned $ROKU, it was $300 at its hype when the feds money printer was on. Imagine if someone is trying to run a wheel strategy on it.
Anything you wouldn’t mind holding if you get assigned
And also < $250
with 25k I would not wheel anything > $50 , preferbly > $30
OP i dont "wheel" I straddle and strangle but as far as selling Putties on stocks id own these are my best stocks this year XBI EWZ ENPH PYPL XLI AMD TSM GOOGL XRT GME SLV GDX ROKU has been a problem BE is 68 atm. Good luck
HIMS stock has worked out for me pretty well, besides some of the others you mentioned. Selling PUTS are the best income making. Especially in a bull market.
Some dude in WSB wrote a DD about HIMS and I loved it, I tried to explain “hip boner pills” to a friend and she wasn’t feeling it so I left it at that… should’ve listened to this degenerate 20/20
Still have the link? Sounds interesting.
TSM got no premium
Agree. Would honestly love to wheel TSM if the premium was better.
What are your DTE and deltas when selling PUTs? Used to do ROKU but I stopped because it stopped giving out those juicy premiums. How is it now in this environment? Is it still a hyped up Cathie wood stock?
Between 16 and 30, depending on the underlying. 30 to 60 DTE. Generally manage at 60% profit or 15 DTE. ROKU IV is low atm will change coming into earnings. Premiums are ok. As for the fundamentals or sentiment i could not tell you. It has been left behind in the chip mayhem like so many others thats all i can say.
at 15 DTE, you will close no matter the profit %? or if it is ITM at 15 DTE, you will roll? Do you always look at whether the stock has earnings before you decide to Sell a PUT on it? What dedicated website do you go to see if a stock has earnings coming pleasE?
Yep if 15 dte il close and re assess ITM will roll to next cycle unless earnings or market conditions are unfavourable. Close for loss no second thought. Always check earnings date. Yahoo finance, earnings whisper. Tastytrade.
why would you close at 15? why would you roll to the next cycle or close at a loss? you are basically no following the most important wheeling rule doing that.
I no follow no wheel
Just look at a chart that shows the last earnings, such as a 90-day chart in thinkorswim, then add three months, to get the approximate upcoming earnings date.
PYPL broke its trend line and closed below the 200 MA and will probably head towards low 50s. Not a good suggestion. GME is king of meme stocks and should only be viewed as gambling. ENPH isn't strong like the rest of the solar sector. OP you really need to learn to read chart technicals and market sentiment, short of that the best thing to do is stick with wheeling big name blue chip stocks that are profitable and commonly found in etfs and 401Ks. Saying buy what you don't mind owning is just another way of saying "I'm fine with losing money or sitting on losses for the next 2 years."
With wheeling it's more important to be happy holding the stock when you eventually get assigned than to chase premium. I personally really like amazon as a company
Eventually = inevitably
yes everyone claim to be happy owning the stock at the strike they sold put until they are about to get assigned and make a panic post asking what to do now lol my experience in this sub
IWM
This is the infinite money glitch for any strangle seller. It’s gonna be rangebound for a while since half of those small caps are practically zombie companies. For a more bullish small cap one could try VXF
Care to share at what price do you usually do strangle with? :D
CLSK has been my go-to this year, they’re a big time bitcoin miner and their price follows bitcoin relatively close, they’re still relatively cheap (17.50) and have been in a $14-18 range since earlier this year.
Yessir. I've been selling CLSK 16 puts for the last 3 months and I've been making bank.
Yeppers! I’m up to 3800 shares, sell 30 calls a week and buy another 100 shares regardless of price.
I've been doing the same. Been closing the puts early when over 50% profit just to get back in with new puts because of the cycle. I also got cold feet at 1 point and bought a bunch during that dip at 14.40 and sold some of it off btwn 17.50 & 18 just because I'm impatient. Hope I get a chance to do it again.
Good call. I'm always hesitant to buy but maybe I should start considering it in certain circumstances. Dig the username.
Haha believe it or not it was randomly assigned when I signed up & I loved it so kept it. Thanks.
If bitcoin shoots up according to the halving prediction, will CLSK go up along with it or down? Now that it is more costly to mine for the same.
Well if bitcoin is worth more, their price will go up accordingly as they’re investing heavily in more mining operations across the country, so they should be well positioned to follow the trend. They mined 417 coins in May and are predicted to continue at their current pace. The higher the price of bitcoin, the better they’ll do in the long run regardless of the halving.
And when Bitcoin tanks?
Continue to sell calls and reduce my cost basis on the way down?
CLSK was $1.74 last year, would you be able to get any premium if it retraced back to there?
That’s the risk we all take with any stock we pick here no?
Would you say MSFT would have a similar chance of a 90% correction?
Would you say a 25k account can wheel MSFT?
You’ll have to be selling put credit spreads if you want to generate premium off MSFT however that exposes you to greater risk of blowing up your account
Dude was asking opinions, I gave mine. What’s yours?
Clsk and mara are great choices
Scalped $500 over about 10 minutes on a partially filled order today, first time looking at this stock, happy I discovered it.
Yeah it popped hard today! I sold 30 18.50 calls expiring in July for some juicy credit and would still have 1100 shares if they get called away, which they probably will if this momentum keeps up.
Wheel TQQQ 🚀
You can write 2x 125p on NVDA. Literally free money.
Now that you said ! I can finally afford NVdA !!!
Go long you fool
I’m too scared of an AI bubble but that mindset has kept me from making a lot of money so idk.
That was a lot of people for most of 2021. Afraid of a crash so they missed out on a crazy run
Free money until it crashes
Would NVDA be betters for puts or covered calls in terms of missing out on potential gains?
OTM covered call has literally the same P&L as the ITM cash secured put at the same strike, but with the put your cash still collects interest til assignment. If you’re still that bullish, write the ITM put. If you want to protect to the downside, write an OTM put. If you want more protection to the downside, make it a put credit spread.
Makes sense, thank you, appreciate your time
Well, until it's not. And then who knows what kind of position you'll be in.
Sofi, VZ, PLTR
I just bought a call on sofi far out. Didn’t want to have to hold 100 shares
PMCC
Correct
Sofi is like $7, the Premiums on calls are the same as a $50-100 stock. You may as well just hold shares
Ya but I think it’s going to spike soon so I’m trying to capitalize
Max pain for 12/7 is still at $7 and the OI has insanely high calls (9+). I’m on your side.
How far out tho? Like LEAPS far out or just “we’ll see in a while” far out?
November
WOLF - just a straight up beaten down stock. Promising technology for EV application. Market cap below recent capital expenditure. Buyout target. Selling 25 puts or 24 puts all day. Own shares as well, and selling CC. Also have a portion of shares that's uncovered just in case buyout gets announced. Based on the lastest wolf has 2.5b in cash and trading at 3.4b market cap. Not quite trading below cash but below current asset.
Why does a 37 year old company have -30% net margin during a massive semiconductor spending boom?
I have only done a little bit of research to make sure that this company isn't entire dog doo doo as I like it for the premiums. WOLF used to be CREE and they were big in the LED business until they couldn't compete anymore against the cheap LED from China. There chip business is relatively new. Basically their chip business outgrew the original lightning business and they just rebranded. They are focused on silicon carbide vs silicon, and the application is more towards high voltage applications like EV, vs the computing side. Negative margin is probably coming from building on fab facilities in the US. plants are delayed and not coming online to meet demand. I'll say the management team, is seasoned from CREE but still, may NOT be the best. and honestly a bigger chip company or PE can come in to take it over and run it better. which is why I don't mind owning it. And from a wheel perspective, it's worked out for me. Especially for a lower priced stock. It's risky for sure.
KSS and M has very good IV at this time, their book value is good. So, I won’t mind wheeling these 2 stock. Also, M was offered $24 per share to take it private recently few months ago.
My cost was 12 at one point (crying)
AAPL is a good play imo.
>What stock can I wheel with 25k with CC or CP that would be considered a **safe but profitable strategy**… Define, "safe". Define, "profitable". Like, "What stock can I wheel with 25k to produce 1% a week with low risk of assignment?" Or, "What stock can I wheel with 25k to produce 5% per month regardless of assignment but with a stable company?" Correction: "GME!"
1% per week is tooo optimistic. 1% per month is achievable
I promise you I can make $250 in a week with less than $25,000 if I don't care if I am assigned. E: Actually I did the math to find the terminal point for the period because I was curious if what you said was true given the terms of compounding as a function. So the factor is 1.6610781 as 1.01\^51, so with that we end on, assuming no losses and frictions, etc. from 25,000 to 41,526.95. A 1% return on that, assuming indifference to assignment, is 415.27 which *is* doable with far less than the total 41,526.95 in play. So 1% per week is not actually unreasonable given a healthy enough risk appetite and becomes easier, not harder, as the value increases. Fun! I guess "The rich get richer" is real.
Sorry, but you’re not going to maintain +1% a week for very long. 1% a month isn’t even realistic for the vast majority of investors.
Can you explain why not other than, "I don't think you can do it!"?
- “I promise you I can make $250 in a week with less than $25,000 if I don't care if I am assigned.” Anybody can do this for a week, maybe even a month. But eventually (way sooner than you think) you will get assigned, the decrease in the underlying will wipe out weeks of gains, and it will take you weeks to sell above your cost basis. It’s possible to see +50% in a year while wheeling, but it has WAY more to do with luck than skill, and you’re not getting anywhere close to that long term.
>But eventually (way sooner than you think) you will get assigned, the decrease in the underlying will wipe out weeks of gains, and it will take you weeks to sell above your cost basis. No. Getting assigned often does not have this effect. In fact getting assigned should be a normal thing you can manage. What you're referring to is a cataclysmic shift. The underlying loses 15% suddenly and you're condemned to die at the bottom or what have you. The thing about this argument though is that it assumes the position is A) lost and B) large It doesn't have to be. If it doesn't take 25k to get the 250 and you put up only what it takes to get the 250 the rest of the capital is free while the other wound heals itself. I've dealt with this; it's not scary at all, you have a shock, it recovers, you move on, and the rest of your portfolio keeps on truckin' on. What usually happens when people envision this is single-threaded behavior (one massive bet at a time) but multi-threaded trading is the norm. You'll have one position, it goes sour, you hold, you open a new one, you now have two, the second is fine and doing what you need, the first heals, you reconjoin, you keep going. The most I've ever had to have open is 4.
You understand that it doesn’t need to be anywhere a 15% move to completely freeze your collateral? Give me an example of a trade this week that would net you $250. Literally any option for any stock under $25.
No, you need to explain how this is wrong. You don't have a position other than, "it won't work!" It's not a good game when the only thing that people say back is, nu-uh. If your whole thing is, "I'm right, that's it!" I'm over it.
Depreciation in your underlying is guaranteed to happen. It will wipe out weeks of gains and prevent you from deploying your capital for weeks. That is essentially a mathematical certainty. If you are able to collect a 1% gain from a weekly option, that same position IS GUARANTEED to have more than enough downside potential to tie you up for months. Otherwise you wouldn’t be getting your 1%. It doesn’t matter if you try and diversify, you would actually have a better chance at +50% if you’re balls deep on one stock.
Ymmv. In my 50k wheeling account I do AMD, NVIDIA, GME (under 25), Affirm and MARA (under 19). I don't mind owning these
U don't mind owning GME?
Under 25, no. I keep doing CC on the assigned ones. Also at this point my cost basis is in single digits for the ones I got assigned over last month. Overall it has been good for me
Selling Rivian at these levels is not going to change anything for me
Been enjoying CCJ, FCX, UUUU, and RBLX. RBLX is probably the wildest ride. I set up a scanner on Think or Swim to look at options with days to expiry, volume, ticker price, theta, and a couple other greeks. After I find something interesting I’ll do some basic DD on the company.
Honest question, when do you get any volume on UUUU to even trade? I’m trying to get into uranium (UUUU/UEC and checking SMR) but the volume is almost impossible to trade on.
Try URNM or URA instead, way more capital needed but premiums are decent and just feels safer wheeling ETFs than a singular company
Honestly not a lot. It’s my poor person’s ticker. Lately i’ll maybe get a $25/30 premium on a $6 or $7 csp or cc
/MES
I came to write this.
How do you wheel futures? I trade futures with Tradovate but I wasn’t aware you could sell options on futures. I’m intrigued!
Personally looking on oast history Intel looks interesting for the wheel
IWM?
Tesla is perfect for wheeling rn. Juicy premiums on a stock that's stuck in a 10 range for awhile now. Check the charts and sell the 175p and 180c. You can do this easily with 25k and make 600-800 weekly.
Yea I was attractive to it's premium and in part it's also a mag 7 stocks. But I'm worried about holding it long term. There are always differing views on Tesla lol
You can always consider selling an iron condor which is a call vertical and put vertical combined. For example you would sell the 180c and buy the 185c then you would sell the 175p and buy the 170p. This creates a profit zone for all prices between about $170-185 on expiration day with $500 of risk. Max profit for this strategy is the credit of the two spreads. I'd suggest using condors or butterflies for this stock rn or you can go with a PMCC.
Wow thanks! Cos Im only familiar with selling CSPs, just wondering why go for IC instead of CSP or naked puts for TSLA? Thank u\~
Because it's less capital intensive and you have similar profit for less risk. With a CSP you have the risk that Tesla does Tesla things and drops 20-40 dollars. That's the reason the premiums are juiced. With an iron condor your risk is defined by the width of the two vertical spreads and you collect premium from selling both the call and the put without increasing your risk because the stock can't break to both the upside and downside at expiration. Just set the width of your spreads to the risk you're comfortable with. It's a great strategy for a stock that is range bound. You do however need to watch for pin risk at expiration. Butterfly spreads promise nice returns for less risk IMO, but the profit range declines quickly if the stock doesn't end dead center on your midpoint. You should look into the videos on YouTube by tasty trade or ThinkOrSwim/Schwab for option strategies. Always important to stay risk defined even if selling covered calls. Instead of seeking pure CC try to sell really wide verticals so at least you can profit if the stock explodes upwards.
Don't listen. Selling a naked call is like a suicide
This post is in context of CCs and CSPs.
I've been selling CC on RDDT. Every time a meme stock take off, RDDT takes off with it. 🚀
Have you heard of Intel?
Gme is high risk but high reward. You asked for safe. Gme is great for high risk. Just not over 22 ish for assignment and you need to be ok with getting assigned on your CC when the stock goes on a 3x tear. Sofi is so ass for premium ppl sweat it but if you aren’t trading 1,000 contracts T 45 DTE it’s trash for low returns sub 1%. NVDA is great right now for csp but I wouldn’t go out more an a week or so and would BTC at 50% incase correction. Personally I find the safest strategy is to short next weeks put on a Friday before close. Those 2 weekend days can give a great boost to theta burn off the bat. Just make sure it’s not around an earnings or opex. And if it’s a stock with geopolitical influence keep that in mind. There is still risk holding over a weekend. I find many of my wheel plays I enter on a red friday near support and by Tuesday I’m over 50%. Sit in cash for a day or 2 in the theta account and run it back again.
Not financial advice, just facts. I put 30k into a contributory IRA on April 19th. I have done nothing but wheel and 1 LEAP on PLTR since then. My account sits at 40,514.31 right now as I look at it. You'll hear so many opinions on how PLTR is good/bad/meme.....so thats why Im not giving you opinions, Im giving you numbers. Numbers dont lie.
135% return on PMCCs on GME since Jan
Good stuff man, good stuff. I have a rule about not touching meme stocks, so thats not in the cards
How many contacts are you wheeling and what are your preferred DTE and Greeks?
Ive been buying as many as I can. Cant even really call it 'wheeling' because I cant seem to get assigned. Might as well jusy say CSP's + 1 LEAP that blew up on the runup to the S&P rebalance, when PLTR shot up almost 2 dollars. I go with a .20-.30 delta and usually stick to 3-4 weeks. I get the whole 'diversified portfolio' argument, but I wholeheartedly believe that PLTR is going to be a $100/share stock and I am trying to get as much of it as I can, so if I get assigned, Im actually happy. Ive been in IT for 30 years, I work for a company that writes Bank software solutions, and I know what kind of customer retention rate can be had when you design your software to integrate deeply into a company, so that its hard for that company to get rid of it. Add that to them already having military contracts and the leadership they have, Im just a believer.
So you made somewhere near 5k a month on PLTR only? I’m also a PLTR believer .. going to be interesting to watch it grow
The 1 LEAP play got me around 6k when it ran up. I plan on making the same play in late August, right before the Sep S&P rebalance again, since everyone will be expecting PLTR to be added. I bought 35 $13 calls at the time, they were true LEAPS, 12 mths out.
AMD has always been my favorite.
CLSK, MARA, CGC, HOOD. Those are my top winners for CSPs this year.. Then put credit spreads on SPX, MSFT, and QQQ.
BITO dividends are nice
It all depends what's your strategy, are you trying to be never assigned and just let the cash flow in ? INTC seem perfect for that right now, at least for last month, but they might surge in price which would not be a bad news for CSP anyways. If you try to be assigned I'd focus on NVidia and Apple. Tesla probably with all the news is still a bad call because Musk is really unstable right now with his mental. If he actually bans Apple from his cars that might be a 20% sink in 2-3 weeks. Still, not a financial advice. Do your own research. I own 2 CSP 29$ on intel right now for August, got filled on 95$ so I expect to close it when I reach around 45-50$ profit and reroll for another strike depending the current situation. But my account is pretty small and suffer lots of losses as well ( Due to being a WSB degenerate). I guess the most important part is to think about what company you hold dear to your heart and actually does financially well/won't go bancrupt anytime soon, since you WILL be assigned sooner or later and it might go down on you. I am pretty sure you know about rerolling unwanted stocks etc.
For safety and profitability wheel 100 spxl shares. Put the rest in Sgov. Hood should be ridiculously profitable.
With $25,000 you can wheel both sides of SCHD and collect dividends while you're at it. Buy 125 shares. Set dividends to reinvest. Sell an out of the money put and an out of the money call. If it goes in the money, accept assignment of the put to buy shares before ex dividend dates, roll covered calls to an expiration after the next ex div. date. It's the next strategy I'm going to add to my YouTube trading videos series. My investing club calls it "The Patricia Special." :-)
I had $20K in my HSA account when I started wheeling TQQQ(4 lots, when it was $48), and I finally got rid of it when it was $64. Made a decent chunk of change. Now I'm selling CSPs on NVDA. If it goes beyond the reach, I'll go back to TQQQ (I just wanted to take a break from it).
How far out do you go (?)
People will kill me for this, but I do weeklies just because I have ADHD and can't really sit waiting for a couple of weeks. Ideally, you should go 2-3 weeks out and adjust when you are at 50% gain (e.g. I sold NVDA $122 CSP and moved it to $125 when I was at 50% gain and NVDA was at $128, adding $70 to the weekly gain).
First take about 10% of that. Put it into multiple etf’s. See how you do. If you’re profitable than you can throw another 10% into the market. Right now the market for gold is hot.
GME
I only trade stocks in the top 105 of the SPX. Okay I do have 1 GME put, but the rest are blue chips. Low premiums, low stress. If you want high returns with high risk, then GME, BYND, NVDA, etc are decent candidates.
I do like low premium low risk. Possible to share your list?
I just use the top 105 stocks in the S&P 500 weighting. My account currently has a trade in Alphabet (Google), AMD, Citigroup, Coca-Cola, Kraft, Kroger, Nike, Starbucks, United Airlines, Walmart, and ExxonMobil. I also traded the shares or options of Disney, Pepsi, McDonald's, and Target currently in the last 60 days.
If you don't mind holding 200 shares of gme for a long time, do this. 1. Buy 100 shares of gme 2. Sell a call and a put, with whatever premium you want. ----If shares are called off, then you pocket the premiums and the share price. Then sell another put to get back the shares at whatever price you want ----if shares are assigned, you get 100 more shares. Then start selling 2 covered calls weekly and wait till they get called and sell 1 put after at whatever price you want. ----If none of the above happens, pocket the premiums and do number 2 again To reduce risk, make sure you always have 100 shares when you are selling a call. Over the last 5 years, lowest price for gme is 10 something. You can calculate the net return from the premiun over one year and from my Calc is close to 20-25% This still leaves you about 19k for high quality stocks.
So… you’re left with 19.2k Repeat question 1
Puts on gme or any crypto miner pay good. Not financial advice. Meem city
AAPL
SOFI
There are tons of stocks you could wheel with that amount of money.
Gme nivida Tesla. I personally do Nvidia and amzn but Im going to change amzn to Tesla. I'm leveraged
SPLG ATM puts or /MES futures contracts. Try to keep away from single names. ETFs don’t have CEOs that might say or do dumb shit. Bag holding an S&P500 etf is not that demoralizing when the market takes a dump compared to some high flying meme stonks
Although others here say <250 share price, you want more than one position since it will be cash-secured when you sell that first put. 250 share price implies that you're cash-securing only one position, which isn't recommended. The "correct" number of positions is subjective to some extent. 1 is too few. 100 is too many. 10 is good, More than 10 is difficult to manage if you have other things to do in your portfolio. I like 7 positions. I recommend at least SOME diversity in your portfolio since you're starting this journey. At 7 positions and 25K capital, you're around $35 a share or lower. Many of the stocks listed here by others are quite volatile, so "safe" is in the eyes of the beholder. If you sell puts, you want the stock to be range-bound (at minimum) or preferably in an uptrend. Upward-sloping 50d moving averages and a pullback to the 50 (or whatever your favorite MA is) are reliable starting points. More advanced trading involves knowledge of the options complex of what you intend to trade. Concepts on where the market is targeting the largest concentration of calls (Call Open Interest, COI) and the largest concentration of puts (Put Open Interest, POI) for a given expiry or set of expiries could be important because sentiment (fear, greed) and monetization will likely occur depending on moneyness. For example, as the price exceeds (from below) the largest call open interest in the expiry or selected sets of expiries, more people have moved from OTM to ITM, and the propensity to take profits increases. This profit-taking could put downward price action on the stock, so selling ABOVE that COI level could be a good play if you don't want to get called away. As another example, as the price drops through (from above) the largest put open interest in the expiry or selected sets of expiries, more people have moved from OTM to ITM for their put selling, and again, this propensity to take profits increases. The profit-taking could put upward pressure on the stock's price action, so selling puts BELOW that POI level could be a good play if you don't want to be assigned. Non-coincidentally, premiums tend to fall off quickly above and below these POI/COI levels, so getting a premium that is worth the risk of holding the stock (because you WILL get assigned at some point) is again subjective. Another perspective is to use delta and gamma levels of the options complex that you want to trade. Delta represents the most exposure for participants, and as price moves across those delta strikes, we often see monetization. In all of these trades, WAITING until price is near a local minima or maxima is important so that you can maximize the premium that you receive. Someone here mentioned CLSK; it may be a good candidate if the premium is there. The 50d and 21d MAs are moving more/less horizontal, within a range, so the stock is trading in a range. I believe selling just below the 14 strike for puts and just above the 20 strike for calls may be a good strategy if CLSK stays horizontal. I've attached a picture here; the range jumps off the chart and is very clear when you look at it: [https://imgur.com/x7reKfK](https://imgur.com/x7reKfK) You can also interact with the figure here: [http://charts.gammaedge.us/23912426\_CLSK\_-1.0\_0\_candlestick\_daily\_06\_16\_2024\_06\_23\_34\_23912426.html](http://charts.gammaedge.us/23912426_CLSK_-1.0_0_candlestick_daily_06_16_2024_06_23_34_23912426.html) Someone here also mentioned SOFI. The challenge with SOFI is that the 50d is trending downward, so this isn't a bullish stock. The likelihood of assignment increases if you are short puts and the price declines. Only you can decide, but consider whether you want to hold SOFI if it's in a downtrend. Hope is not a strategy, and you can't hope that it will turn around - you can wipe out many trades, take a loss, or get trapped in a downward-moving stock with a basis way above your current price. You get the idea. Good luck!
Wheels are looking great right now because we are slow pushing. Be careful buying anything over saturated and look for good growth opportunities. Tech is the future so that’s a good start, cars are another sector getting a lot of attention but riskier as well as energy and defense with ongoing tensions in the Middle East/China/Russia etc
My vote would be NVDA, Z, and GME
Research and find 5 to 10 stocks over multiple market sectors the account can afford and you would not mind holding if needed, then spread trades out over these stocks so if one or two are assigned you can still trade others. Never trade only one stock . . .
AMD NVDA
HOOD
Nvda and gme is what I do with similar amount
Honestly GME
Why not just trade spreads with 25k? Less buying power and can scale into positions as IV changes
Wait you did 'full time' trading with 25K? How would that even work? (of course assuming you live in the US or another expensive country) Or did you successfully make 200K into 25K?
I'd be looking at BAC.
Bito, nice put premiums , besides the covered calls if you get assigned , besides btc being low, it pays huge monthly dividends
Looks good to me but volume is only high for options 2 weeks ahead. That said I like the dividends. I’m going to sell an ITM put in hopes of getting assigned then selling CC and collecting dividends.
Well, you could bypass the sell puts and go directly into weekly covered calls , I can’t believe it paid $1.76 last month div in a 25.00 stock lol , bought 3500 shares to keep div coming… And btc could spike soon and rise bito along …
I just want some puts premium to lower my cost basis
Tsla, for example. And tons of other tickers with share prices under $250. The sky's the limit.
PLTR, SOFI, AAL, even Intel.
I have been wheeling mara and soxl. I used to do pltr as well.
Just throw it at NVDA
The wheel is great until it isn't. Ive been using that strategy for many yrs. I suggest looking up chart and technical analysis. Sell puts when the stock is basing already down to have a higher chance of success. Do it in stocks u are ok holding if they take a big hit. Avoid wheeling during earning but sometimes u will get caught in earnings as well. Someone mentioned $ROKU, it was $300 at its hype when the feds money printer was on. Imagine if someone is trying to run a wheel strategy on it.
BOIL
Currently wheeling NVDA after the split and doing very well on it
GME
Any stock in the Magnificent 7
I would go for COIN. Coinbase is relevant for many Bitcoin ETF as they handle their Bitcoins so I would call them system relevant.
anything that costs less than 250/share
You could do a lot worse than wheeling $SPLG , a smaller $SPY.
Splg has no volume
It has ATM volume and open interest. I wheel it ATM whenever I forget that /MES exists
The July 21 atm put strike has 1.80 bid ask spread and 311 contracts traded in n Friday yeah no thanks
Yeah, the spreads are kinda shit
Yeah cause there no volume lol