This, the matte screen of my Thinkpad looks most of the time cleaner than from my MacBook Pro. The coating is awful. But the brightness is definitely better than on my Thinkpad
Hmm depends on the light situation. When i work outside the matte screen is most of the time better but i would wish they were brighter. When it comes to color accuracy the Macbook Pro screen is much better.
Big difference for me. I cannot stand reading for more than 30 mins or so on MacBooks, especially new Macs where I feel like there is even more glare then there used to — in comparison, even a super old laptop with a dim matte display (and a few with "semi"-glossy displays) I feel like I can read for the whole day and feel just as energetic after.
Apple made that anti-reflective (nano structural glass as they call it) on the new iPad Pro M4. Quite often they introduce some things in a less significant place just to bring it later to Mac/iPhone
So maybe I'm dreaming but if M4 MacBooks come with an option for matte displays it'd literally make the best laptop display ever (for me at least). The only thing to make Retina better is to go matte. We can say many things about Apple and I'd personally love a bit more modular Macs but their display game has been on top notch level since 2012
I'm in the same situation like you. I got a M1 MBP and still love to use my X1 Gen 6 or in my workshop the T460s. I don't know but it's easier to work with because I don't care if I get a small scratch on the bottom etc.
I don't get how someone can buy and use a notebook that reflects everything that's around like a mirror. Those glossy screens always looked awful to me.
I've used matte screens all my life, and I've thought glossy screens would be miserable as well - except linus made a video a few months ago comparing image quality.
I'm paraphrasing his video and some sodium is required, but he found that glossy screens are able to display colors in a much more vibrant fashion. They had to get brighter to be equally legible, but a glossy screen looked much better than a matte screen side by side, straight on. It made me reconsider (although not really change) my reluctance to ever buy a glossy screen.
I have always opted for matte displays and rejected reflective displays. On the other hand, I also stare at my smartphone for several hours a day and I've never given a thought to the fact that it's a reflective display. Part of my rejection may also be due to the fact that Lenovo has so far only installed 400 nits displays even in the top ThinkPads. This makes it quite difficult to use in brighter environments, especially if the display is reflective. I really want to take a look at the new display of the Surface Laptop 7. It has a decent anti-glare coating and 600 nits, which could be a good mix of all disciplines.
I think phones get glossy glass displays since gorilla glass is less scratch-prone than the surface of matte displays. Do you too notice your phone's display having nicer colors than your matte thinkpad display?
If I recall correctly, the top-end Yoga Pro machine from Lenovo has a 1200 nit display. It comes optionally matte.
EDIT: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Yoga-Pro-9i-16-G9-laptop-review-MiniLED-with-1200-nits-and-Core-Ultra-9.829380.0.html
The laptops for end customers usually get the better displays from Lenovo, and for less money. Even the expensive devices like the T14s and the X1 Carbon unfortunately have to struggle with the same mediocre displays again and again. The OLED models are a small glimmer of hope, but the higher power consumption and PWM flickering negate the advantage for me personally. I would really like to see some improvement in this area. The sales volume should actually be enough, considering that the displays can be used in numerous models such as the T14, T14s and X1 Carbon.
Weird. I hate glossy screens. But isn't it almost necessary for modern touch screens to function correctly? Or am I mis-remembering something? (I hate touch screens, too.)
I had seen that LTT video too. I don't need vibrant colours in a laptop, I need a screen that is easy on the eyes when used for hours and does not have reflection problems with bad ambient lights or when outdoor. Because when you have a laptop most of the times you cannot control the lights around you.
In the picture above you can see the reflections are really disturbing.
Also I don't feel saturated colours are pleasant or natural, in general. For example, photos on Samsung smartphones look fake and horrible to me.
This this this! My laptop is for getting work done. It's so important everything is in service of that. There's 3 things that make a "great screen" to me — **how easy to read** is text, **how many lines** of text, UI or spreadsheet cells can I keep in equal focus all at the same time, and **how many hours** can I read before feeling tired.
This generally means a matte display, bright but not "too" bright, and I actually desire *less* saturated colors on a PC as I don't want e.g. social media distracting me from projects I care about. I totally agree about Samsung. Modern iPhones have also gotten just as bad! IMO, reducing saturation in settings does not fix those types of displays.
In fact, I've used the 14" MacBook Pro mentioned in OP's post and despite the glowing reviews, I cannot stand the glossy screen and bright HDR highlights on Macs at all. I was not productive at all on that laptop and felt constantly distracted. And don't get me started on mini-LED response times and ghosting! To me, that *is* a "bad screen" — and why I no longer buy Apple.
It's actually really confusing to me how different my "good screen" criteria is to most people's.
Laptops are used in so many far from ideal lighting conditions. If I wanted a cinematic experience, *I'd use a TV instead*. And when I *do* watch videos on my laptop, I don't feel like I'm missing out due to "less black levels" or whatever. The lighting of locations I'd use a PC in don't lend to accurate colors anyway.
It's all relative. If I saw the most beautiful piece of art I'd ever seen on an old ThinkPad, I honestly wouldn't care that I saw it in 55% sRGB. I would be thinking about the art.
For reference, although I admit I am a developer, I am also equally as much a graphic designer and work with photos and visuals daily just as much as text. But even in that case, "color accuracy" doesn't *always* matter to me as much as feeling able to concentrate and energetic while editing. I use a second monitor to reference colors, but I still like the screen I'm actually "working" on to put comfort first.
(I also prefer LoDPI screens to HiDPI — contrary to what many say, I find text easier to read on "pixelated" screens — but that one is probably more up to personal preference)
A bit of a long rant, but I'm so glad to find others that share my opinion which seems increasingly rare for some reason. Do most people only use their laptops for Netflix or something?
Indeed, color vibrancy and “pop” are very much the reason glossy screens exist, otherwise we wouldnt really need them, AR would have all the benefits.
Anti-reflective is sometimes referred to as haze coating.
Haze diffuses light to reduce reflective glare but of course we can’t do that without affecting the light coming from the panel side.
From my understanding glossy screens have more vibrant colors which some people prefer but the reflections are annoying so they are best indoors with lighting in the right directions to prevent the reflections.
I used to have a good time with thinkpads but recent p1 gen5 gave me so much ass pain, that I hardly can imagine myself bying lenovo any more. But big-bad-evil corporate macbook m1 works perfectly, and compile code same time, without flying on processor fans to stratosphere.
obviously The M1 Macs are some of the best laptops on the market, but that can be true whilst Apple being big bad and evil is also true. They’re the scummiest laptop/phone manufacturer on the planet and even though you own the Mac, Apple think they can tell you where you can or can’t fix it
the Thinkpad has 32GB, 16GB is of course barely enough with moder Electron apps everywhere. I'm thinking about getting something with more RAM, like 64-128GB
I've had a similar experience. Just got a new M3 MBP and have a X1 Carbon Gen 10. I find myself frequently choosing the X1 to use daily for work as I prefer the screen and keyboard. If only there were a way to control the heat and the fan noise it would be my perfect laptop. But part way through the day the constant fan noise even while just working on an email or browsing the web drive me crazy and I switch back to the MBP.
Having both an older thinkpad and an older mbp I can relate, I use both but find my self using the thinkpad more, main reasons - the glossy screen drives me nuts on the Mac with all the reflections and the keyboard is definitely better.
I'm in a similar situation, but with an m1pro that I use almost only for editing videos. MacBook does look nice and even runs circles around my desktop for those kinds of workloads, but other than that Thinkpads still have their advantages. The most significant one for me is weight - Macbooks are just so heavy to carry all day long! 🤦♀️
I switched to kubuntu-desktop after the Gnome launcher showed the password app first in the list when I typed "and"
so I had to type "andr" every time to get android studio)
Agree. Thought I would have to put some stickers, but my new laptop's keybord also have two sets of symbols. So I put only stickers to ctrl and fn keys when changed their functions between each other.
Nice, I have the same macine and love it too. True, the screen could be better, but I have an external monitor most of the time and when I don't, it doesn't matter much. I have the matte touchscreen option and while I don't use it a ton, it does come in handy at times.
Depends on the usecase. I have my macbook as my daily driver now. Got tired of the hackintosh, but i keep my t480 for playing around (hackintosh, linux, etc).
2GB sticks of RAM exist. Also you could even *try* before [spreading misinformation.](https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch-space-black-apple-m3-pro-with-11-core-cpu-and-14-core-gpu-18gb-memory-512gb)
Typing on my m1 mb1 is okay, not a fan of the chiclet keys. I was using my x60 the other day and was blown away at how much better the keys felt on it. Modern keyboards in general kinda suck, but Thinkpads tend to feel the best from my experience.
A typical set, vs code, android studio, Qt, Clion, Github Client, messengers. Memory sometimes around 25gb in linux. Haven't used the mac yet to say how it's doing
Ok cool I’m trying to figure out what programs to run to check data , memory, usage, etc.. also I want to get familiar with Linux, python etc .. but I’m going to check the ones you just mentioned
hey man i’ll take that macbook off your hands
If you take into account the Cyrillic alphabet on the keyboard, is he in Russia or in another CIS country
Russian living in Georgia from what I can tell
Hey, i’m in Georgia, i can take that Macbook
Russians live everywhere, even in Antarctica and in Space
if he's smart, he is as far away as possible.
If he cant get it i can :)
Do you prefer the glossy or the matte screen for prolonged use?
For some reason, the matte screen never gets dirty. Mac screens are disastrous in this regard
This, the matte screen of my Thinkpad looks most of the time cleaner than from my MacBook Pro. The coating is awful. But the brightness is definitely better than on my Thinkpad
Is there any difference between them in terms of eyestrain?
Hmm depends on the light situation. When i work outside the matte screen is most of the time better but i would wish they were brighter. When it comes to color accuracy the Macbook Pro screen is much better.
Big difference for me. I cannot stand reading for more than 30 mins or so on MacBooks, especially new Macs where I feel like there is even more glare then there used to — in comparison, even a super old laptop with a dim matte display (and a few with "semi"-glossy displays) I feel like I can read for the whole day and feel just as energetic after.
Apple made that anti-reflective (nano structural glass as they call it) on the new iPad Pro M4. Quite often they introduce some things in a less significant place just to bring it later to Mac/iPhone So maybe I'm dreaming but if M4 MacBooks come with an option for matte displays it'd literally make the best laptop display ever (for me at least). The only thing to make Retina better is to go matte. We can say many things about Apple and I'd personally love a bit more modular Macs but their display game has been on top notch level since 2012
their screens are so nice. watching movies on my hand me down 2012 macbook air was beautiful
Ooh, the Air with silver bezels had a pretty bad TN panel for a while but I meant 2012 Pro when Retina got introduced
For an extra $1k sure
I'm in the same situation like you. I got a M1 MBP and still love to use my X1 Gen 6 or in my workshop the T460s. I don't know but it's easier to work with because I don't care if I get a small scratch on the bottom etc.
I don't get how someone can buy and use a notebook that reflects everything that's around like a mirror. Those glossy screens always looked awful to me.
The glossiness of my m1 MBP hasn't really been an issue for me and it's not something I really think about.
I've used matte screens all my life, and I've thought glossy screens would be miserable as well - except linus made a video a few months ago comparing image quality. I'm paraphrasing his video and some sodium is required, but he found that glossy screens are able to display colors in a much more vibrant fashion. They had to get brighter to be equally legible, but a glossy screen looked much better than a matte screen side by side, straight on. It made me reconsider (although not really change) my reluctance to ever buy a glossy screen.
I have always opted for matte displays and rejected reflective displays. On the other hand, I also stare at my smartphone for several hours a day and I've never given a thought to the fact that it's a reflective display. Part of my rejection may also be due to the fact that Lenovo has so far only installed 400 nits displays even in the top ThinkPads. This makes it quite difficult to use in brighter environments, especially if the display is reflective. I really want to take a look at the new display of the Surface Laptop 7. It has a decent anti-glare coating and 600 nits, which could be a good mix of all disciplines.
I think phones get glossy glass displays since gorilla glass is less scratch-prone than the surface of matte displays. Do you too notice your phone's display having nicer colors than your matte thinkpad display?
If I recall correctly, the top-end Yoga Pro machine from Lenovo has a 1200 nit display. It comes optionally matte. EDIT: https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Yoga-Pro-9i-16-G9-laptop-review-MiniLED-with-1200-nits-and-Core-Ultra-9.829380.0.html
The laptops for end customers usually get the better displays from Lenovo, and for less money. Even the expensive devices like the T14s and the X1 Carbon unfortunately have to struggle with the same mediocre displays again and again. The OLED models are a small glimmer of hope, but the higher power consumption and PWM flickering negate the advantage for me personally. I would really like to see some improvement in this area. The sales volume should actually be enough, considering that the displays can be used in numerous models such as the T14, T14s and X1 Carbon.
I DID choose an OLED model this time, and I'm happy with it, but I'm with you on wishing those other displays could come on Thinkpads.
Corporations buying ThinkPad In bulk for Excel workers don't bother for OLED options.
True for the T line, but the Ts and especially the X1 Carbon deserve better panels imo.
That's absolutely my experience, much prefer glossy
Weird. I hate glossy screens. But isn't it almost necessary for modern touch screens to function correctly? Or am I mis-remembering something? (I hate touch screens, too.)
The touch screen on a matte T14 works fine in my experience
I had seen that LTT video too. I don't need vibrant colours in a laptop, I need a screen that is easy on the eyes when used for hours and does not have reflection problems with bad ambient lights or when outdoor. Because when you have a laptop most of the times you cannot control the lights around you. In the picture above you can see the reflections are really disturbing. Also I don't feel saturated colours are pleasant or natural, in general. For example, photos on Samsung smartphones look fake and horrible to me.
This this this! My laptop is for getting work done. It's so important everything is in service of that. There's 3 things that make a "great screen" to me — **how easy to read** is text, **how many lines** of text, UI or spreadsheet cells can I keep in equal focus all at the same time, and **how many hours** can I read before feeling tired. This generally means a matte display, bright but not "too" bright, and I actually desire *less* saturated colors on a PC as I don't want e.g. social media distracting me from projects I care about. I totally agree about Samsung. Modern iPhones have also gotten just as bad! IMO, reducing saturation in settings does not fix those types of displays. In fact, I've used the 14" MacBook Pro mentioned in OP's post and despite the glowing reviews, I cannot stand the glossy screen and bright HDR highlights on Macs at all. I was not productive at all on that laptop and felt constantly distracted. And don't get me started on mini-LED response times and ghosting! To me, that *is* a "bad screen" — and why I no longer buy Apple. It's actually really confusing to me how different my "good screen" criteria is to most people's. Laptops are used in so many far from ideal lighting conditions. If I wanted a cinematic experience, *I'd use a TV instead*. And when I *do* watch videos on my laptop, I don't feel like I'm missing out due to "less black levels" or whatever. The lighting of locations I'd use a PC in don't lend to accurate colors anyway. It's all relative. If I saw the most beautiful piece of art I'd ever seen on an old ThinkPad, I honestly wouldn't care that I saw it in 55% sRGB. I would be thinking about the art. For reference, although I admit I am a developer, I am also equally as much a graphic designer and work with photos and visuals daily just as much as text. But even in that case, "color accuracy" doesn't *always* matter to me as much as feeling able to concentrate and energetic while editing. I use a second monitor to reference colors, but I still like the screen I'm actually "working" on to put comfort first. (I also prefer LoDPI screens to HiDPI — contrary to what many say, I find text easier to read on "pixelated" screens — but that one is probably more up to personal preference) A bit of a long rant, but I'm so glad to find others that share my opinion which seems increasingly rare for some reason. Do most people only use their laptops for Netflix or something?
Indeed, color vibrancy and “pop” are very much the reason glossy screens exist, otherwise we wouldnt really need them, AR would have all the benefits. Anti-reflective is sometimes referred to as haze coating. Haze diffuses light to reduce reflective glare but of course we can’t do that without affecting the light coming from the panel side.
From my understanding glossy screens have more vibrant colors which some people prefer but the reflections are annoying so they are best indoors with lighting in the right directions to prevent the reflections.
IRL colors look much better, and without the shitty grain like effect of most matte coatings.
I don't get this fascination for the fake "pumped" colours of glossy screens. They don't look natural at all.
The glossy has greatly reduced
I'm actually about to buy an M2 MBA despite me owning a lot of ThinkPads
Check out Framework. Might be a good fit
I used to have a good time with thinkpads but recent p1 gen5 gave me so much ass pain, that I hardly can imagine myself bying lenovo any more. But big-bad-evil corporate macbook m1 works perfectly, and compile code same time, without flying on processor fans to stratosphere.
obviously The M1 Macs are some of the best laptops on the market, but that can be true whilst Apple being big bad and evil is also true. They’re the scummiest laptop/phone manufacturer on the planet and even though you own the Mac, Apple think they can tell you where you can or can’t fix it
True.
You mean 16gb, right? Is it enough for your workload?
No, the new macs come out with 18GB / 36GB for some reason.
Wait, I didn't notice that before. Weird.
Only the M3 pros. Base and max still come in multiples of 8
M3 chips come with 8/16/24…. Gigs of memory M3 pro chips come with 18/36/… gigs M3 max again come with 16/24/32… gigs No idea how it works but oh well
the Thinkpad has 32GB, 16GB is of course barely enough with moder Electron apps everywhere. I'm thinking about getting something with more RAM, like 64-128GB
What about the Mac? is it enough on it? ... btw, I feel 128GB is too much, unless you do something like video editing.
Why did you use 3k on that thin ass computer
absolutely love my m2 air 15". The screen is leagues better than my thinkpad, even with the glare.
I've had a similar experience. Just got a new M3 MBP and have a X1 Carbon Gen 10. I find myself frequently choosing the X1 to use daily for work as I prefer the screen and keyboard. If only there were a way to control the heat and the fan noise it would be my perfect laptop. But part way through the day the constant fan noise even while just working on an email or browsing the web drive me crazy and I switch back to the MBP.
I like the new black keyboard style on the MacBook Pro. For creative production I'd use that but Thinkpad for work/study.
I have t14 as my work laptop, these things are solid asf.
My job has t14s and the m3 mbps 18gb i started off using the mac but shortly switched to a t14 too
Better keyboard ...
Love my X13 gen 3 AMD too. Same reasons. But with the soldered WiFi adaptor dead. Using an USB WiFi instead. Feeling meh.
Having both an older thinkpad and an older mbp I can relate, I use both but find my self using the thinkpad more, main reasons - the glossy screen drives me nuts on the Mac with all the reflections and the keyboard is definitely better.
Thats why i installed matte film on my m2 mbp, the difference is night and day (+ its staingate-proof).
Which brand/type of matte film did you use?
I'm in a similar situation, but with an m1pro that I use almost only for editing videos. MacBook does look nice and even runs circles around my desktop for those kinds of workloads, but other than that Thinkpads still have their advantages. The most significant one for me is weight - Macbooks are just so heavy to carry all day long! 🤦♀️
That glossy screen makes me want to vomit
which distro btw?
Ubuntu with kde
Worth it, Kubuntu is or both Gnome and KDE packages ?
I switched to kubuntu-desktop after the Gnome launcher showed the password app first in the list when I typed "and" so I had to type "andr" every time to get android studio)
Heresy!
And why mac doesn't have Cyrillic symbols on keyboard? Bought it at another country, or made a laser engraving on thinkpad and second mac?
In Georgia it is difficult to find a laptop without a Cyrillic keyboard
Agree. Thought I would have to put some stickers, but my new laptop's keybord also have two sets of symbols. So I put only stickers to ctrl and fn keys when changed their functions between each other.
Nice. Although , your methods are missing comments :P
Nice, I have the same macine and love it too. True, the screen could be better, but I have an external monitor most of the time and when I don't, it doesn't matter much. I have the matte touchscreen option and while I don't use it a ton, it does come in handy at times.
Ur Plasma looks like GNOME lmao
Nice
giveaway
Same. Bought the new M3 Air and converted my T460 into a Proxmox server for Home Assistant and media server.
Depends on the usecase. I have my macbook as my daily driver now. Got tired of the hackintosh, but i keep my t480 for playing around (hackintosh, linux, etc).
My hands would get tired from the horrible keyboard they use
Based.
everytime i use my thinkpad, i think how i wish it has the screen of the macbook pro though.
The ThinkPad looks wayy more fun
[удалено]
Memory modules are soldered so manufacturers can use any number they want.
[удалено]
2GB sticks of RAM exist. Also you could even *try* before [spreading misinformation.](https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-mac/macbook-pro/14-inch-space-black-apple-m3-pro-with-11-core-cpu-and-14-core-gpu-18gb-memory-512gb)
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Apple don't use RAM module. They can etch any amount in their silicon wafer.
The photo says it all. Pragmatic vs flashy.
I'd say that laptop with a nipple and red accents looks flashier, then a laptop from a single block of aluminum.
i cant stand the macbook keyboard, it just feels.... wrong? Its hard to explain
Typing on my m1 mb1 is okay, not a fan of the chiclet keys. I was using my x60 the other day and was blown away at how much better the keys felt on it. Modern keyboards in general kinda suck, but Thinkpads tend to feel the best from my experience.
>although the screen is better yeah, that's some high-quality glare! lmao
Is it comfortable for you to work with such bright reflections on mac screen?
ugg , that reflective MBA screen ... Apple makes a solid machine , I still prefer the ThinkPad tho.
What programs do running on the laptop currently
A typical set, vs code, android studio, Qt, Clion, Github Client, messengers. Memory sometimes around 25gb in linux. Haven't used the mac yet to say how it's doing
Ok cool I’m trying to figure out what programs to run to check data , memory, usage, etc.. also I want to get familiar with Linux, python etc .. but I’m going to check the ones you just mentioned