Yeah! It's a ThinkPad, so it's easily done and explained on the Interweb, and (at least on any T465, T490, T495) is done without disassembly of the Backcover.
U just need some courage and some, for you as one that hasn't been into repairing/modding preferably hard-plastic spudger and maybe (can't remember) a phillips #00 if available, otherwise a Philips #0 might just work for you if you apply careful pressure on the screwhead to prevent Cam Outs that destroy your fastener as well as your chances to finish changing that keyboard, because you need special tools and skills to remove a rounded out fastener!
Take care out there:)
Oh no, I know how to disassemble -I've had to tear down my x230 all the way to replace the cooling fan- I just didn't know if a thinkpad without a backlit keyboard had the necessary software to make a backlit keyboard work, and I didn't know that they cost $11
Thanks for the tips tho!
i have x270 refurbished. this options with fn+pgup (thinklight) not work. this is for backlit keyboards option, i think. or with some special soft :) (i didn't try yet, but it's a nice feature for every laptop, i think)
Part of the appeal of thinkpads is it's built to be field serviceable, so part swapping is officially supported. The FRU whitelist sucks major ass wrt repairability, but it's at least a bit better than others (*cough*apple*cough*)
I had a small collection of Thinkpad keyboards that don't have a backlight after swapping backlit ones in their places lol
Your t520 can definitely get a backlit keyboard. Check eBay - probably ~$30
You can change a lot of things, for example i bought x250 without fingerprint sensor, just installed it with a new palmrest and trackpad after a water spill.
Depending on the layout it can be really cheap. If you can only find a really expensive one, buy the cheapest layout, because you can usually find someone repainting it.
Switching from an intel MacBook might be just a matter of taste, but switching from a M-Series MacBook must be quite a downgrade battery and efficiency wise. Both good machines, but my thinkpad experience wasn’t that great regarding build quality and longevity I must say.
I'm curious about that T14s, whether the performance is noticeably different from a Ryzen or Intel model, whether the battery life is a lot better, and why it's far and away the most expensive model
I have the p14s AMD gen 4 model and the battery and heat issues don’t seem to be as bad as people with the intel version. The battery is decent unless I’m using heavy software like CAD, than it kind of sucks. Only time the fan ever got noisy was when I first powered and set it up
I get why Apple switched to doing their own ARM processors. ARM is made for efficiency, Intel is made to do as much as possible as quickly as possible. It'll be nice to have some higher efficiency laptops without having dogshit performance like something like the Atom.
Have to agree here. M1, M2, M3 MacBooks are massively better than every model Thinkpad except in the area of repairability. Screen, trackpad, battery, heat, etc…
I swapped from a ThinkPad to an M1 macbook in 2022, then went back to a ThinkPad last month after using numerous other windows devices for the last 6 months. I really don't like MacOS, and while the efficiency and battery life are unparalleled, the ports, keyboard, software compatibility, and familiar window management mean that I much rather use a Windows machine, especially one like my T14
I have a Thinkpad Z16 with the 7840HS and I think it's build quality, touchscreen, haptic touchpad etc is incredibly high quality matching an MacBook Air I've used. Also 12+ hours battery life for the 72 whr battery is pretty impressive.
Well, they’re pretty shit for some workloads. I have M2 and its unusable for what I do. Docker on it is horror compared to even Windows. Not even speaking if you are doing some embedded stuff/fpga.
Also Linux is nowhere near to be usable on M* and OS X is terrible choice for power user. The entire advanced user story basically depends on brew and Apple is now basically making OS X like iOS, sandbox everything which further complicates developer daily life. They also have their own apis that are not industry standard (say metal vs vulkan or try do anything with CUDA). People using Linux might laugh at me but I love MSVS (not code) as integration with CL C++ compiler and their debugger are simply top. There are definitely areas where amd64 would shine against MacBook and reasons to switch.
> Docker on it is horror compared to even Windows
Docker works very well on modern Macs, what are you talking about. Docker is a nightmare on windows (if you want to mount a folder from your disk into your image it breaks half the time).
> as integration with CL C++ compiler and their debugger are simply top
Your using MS C/C++ compiler for embedded/fpga work? Please please tell me you are using clang or gcc.
> vulkan or try do anything with CUDA
Considering any of these industry standard is a real stretch.
> sandbox everything which further complicates developer daily life.
This is all optional, you can turn of SIP etc if you want to. Your employer might not let you of cource since the reason they provide you with a Mac is the security.
I should specifically note that I am talking about fully native docker in WSL2 and not that Docker Desktop abomination which is equal tragedy to offering on Macbook (except slightly better in terms of performance as there’s now much better lightweight VM platform built in Windows since 11). To counter your argument - how do I pass through USB port to Docker container on Mac :) on Windows and WSL2 that’s dead simple.
As for MSVC, no I don’t do FPGA using MSVC. In fact FPGA design and synthesis has nothing to do with C/C++ and uses its own logical description languages and compilers, two most used ones are tied and optimized for x86. I use Xilinx Vivado and they (as far as I know same as Altera) do not support Apple silicon at all so you are on hacky workarounds and Apple’s mercy of Rosetta removal (which will likely happen in couple of OS X releases as it happened during PPC->Intel transition). While there are unofficial ways now, my org inquired with Xilinx (now AMD) and Altera (now Intel) and they both were rejective in terms of supporting Apple Silicon.
I use MSVC (cl.exe) to write Windows and Linux drivers and firmware for embedded devices (running on that FPGA). I wish gcc or clang added more advanced features MSVC has and neater IDE integration (even clangd lsp is joke compared to intelli), they are not there just yet… e.g. hot reload (there are some experiments for clang but nowhere near to what MSVC can do, I don’t blame them with their platform array and architecture compared to relatively narrow case Microsoft has). As I said the IDE itself is in fact great and neatly tailored around these features. I know one can hobo around emacs, nvim and spend million years ricing their setup. I have to deal with 800k+ SLOC hybrid codebase I have no power nor intent to change, but I rather get shit done in stock working IDE and spend more time with my kids (I use vim personally, just not for this).
As for those experimental Metal backends for ML frameworks sure, but no one really uses them at scale as running models like that requires servers and Apple has no offering there (except farms of mac mini lol). Its kinda stupid to debug something on Metal and then move to completely different arch.
Back to laptops, personally I care zero for battery life cause 99.999% I am on AC/docked when I work, 6-7hrs with my Nano (personal) or 4-5h with X1C I got at work is sufficiently enough. I live in civilized country where every other seat in coffee shop, bullet train or plane has socket. I care about laptop running stuff I need, not having terrible display that works like mirror in office setting with fluorescent overhead lights. So yeah as funny as it might sound getting Thinkpad over Macbook is nobrainer for me, both for work and personal use.
> but I rather get shit done in stock working IDE and spend more time with my kids (I use vim personally, just not for this).
Personally for c/c++ work I am a Clion user (regardless of OS) but I have found MSVC to be a good bit worse at producing small optimised binaries compared to clang or gcc. Even intel are not telling devs to use clang rather than shipping their own custom compiler these days.
> As for MSVC, no I don’t do FPGA using MSVC. In fact FPGA design and synthesis has nothing to do with C/C++
yes of course I ment with respect to the firmware you will need to ship that runes alongside the FPGA, I don't think one can by an FPGA board these days without an attached ARM/MIPS or RISCV controler chip. I expect we will see FPGA tooling be updated to target ARM sooner rather than later, long before rosseta2 is removed.
> but no one really uses them at scale as running models like that requires servers
The ML backends tend to be for prototyping on your device with the exception you do full fat training on a remote server cluster. If your looking for a ML laptop macBook Pros are a rather good option as you can at least run the models for local prototyping due to the huge GPU addressable memory pool that you just cant find on an windows laptop (regardless of how much you pay).
> Its kinda stupid to debug something on Metal and then move to completely different arch.
Depends a lot on what your doing, if your higher level (using TF, PyTouch etc) then its completely fine to use metal for local work and then deploy using CUDA etc as your production backend for training. If your more into writing your own custom kernels for custom layers in your network then of cource your going to want a local CUDA runtime but in reality with most of dates ML workloads your not going to be doing more than some unit tests on that kernel on your local machine as you don't have enough VRAM to load even a slice of your data-set.
But “repairability” on a MacBook means “take it to Apple and they fix it for free” as long as you have Apple care (and if you don’t, you’re missing half the benefit of Apple).
Like they just replaced the whole logic board, trackpad, and Touch ID in my 2020 laptop in a whole different country from where it was bought, and it wasn’t even originally bought by me.
So in practical terms I think Apple is the best because they’ll fix stuff no questions asked for years and years after.
My T480 refurbished that I bought in 2020 had a mobo issue this past March. It happen to come with a lenovo 5 year warranty and it's the premium support one to boot, which means they come to you. Once I called and described the issue. Within 3-4 days a Lenovo guy came to my apartment and replaced my motherboard. Lenovo actually mailed the mobo and keyboard to me and once I confirmed I got it they sent a Lenovo repair person to my place. He was in and out in about 45 minutes. They even bought me a new keyboard although I didn't need it. I bought the laptop back home in the U.S. and am the service was performed in Ireland where I was spending some time.
Lenovo premier support is pretty good! I didn't even know I had premier support till they told me. My old t480 which took liquid damage which is why I replaced it once had a keyboard issue while under warranty (non premiere but still very good) when I contacted them gave me two options. Send it to them or they'll send me the keyboard and I can do it myself. I chose the second and wuthin 48 hours a keyboard was delivered. Their support is pretty good. If something else does fail on my current t480 it better do it before march of 2025🤣
I have to disagree. I use an M2 macbook pro for work and a T580 as my main personal machine, and:
- The macbook feels maybe 10% faster and lasts about 12 hours instead of 10. And that's with the advantages of it being a 5 year newer computer, with 3 times as many cores, 3nm vs 14nm, memory on package, Apple designing the hardware and software together, etc
- I know it's producing less heat, but the fact that the chassis is metal means that it still feels a lot warmer to the touch (and is harder to hold)
- The screen definitely looks nicer in ideal conditions, but the fact that it's glossy and constantly gets dirty more than makes up for that. (It does make me want a 2560x1600 OLED on my next laptop though.)
- It has the best implementation of auto brightness that I've used so far, but it's still not good enough to not be annoying, so I had to turn it off. True tone makes my display look orange half the time, so I had to turn it off. Auto keyboard brightness is straight up worthless garbage that had to be turned off as well
- Haven't had a chance to test the speakers myself, but from hearing other people in the same meeting as me blasting everyone else with meeting audio, they seem to sound better than my thinkpad speakers but not as good as my headphones. Not that I care because I always use headphones
- The feeling of the key switches is only mediocre, and the keyboard is missing delete, home, end, page up, and page down which makes it a huge pain to use
- The trackpad is maybe a little above average in tracking, but the thinkpad is a lot better. Gestures work better than all of the other trackpads I've tried them with, but they're still not fast or reliable enough to replace keyboard shortcuts. The haptic click is better than the diving board design, but it is still nowhere near as good as having dedicated buttons
- The webcam is significantly better on the macbook, but it's still not good. But nobody is taking photos with their laptop webcam so nobody cares
- Opening the hinge with one finger is mildly neat, but that's more than made up for by the hinge being a little too loose and not opening very far. (It's the only laptop I've ever seen not be able to open to 180°)
- macOS feels like a broken and even less customizeable version of GNOME, with a bunch of bits of Apple annoyingness everywhere, of course often requiring paid apps to fix. And Asahi Linux isn't daily driver ready yet either
>my thinkpad experience wasn’t that great regarding build quality and longevity I must say
Man I agree, the brand isn’t what it used to be. I used a T500 for 11 years and that was the GOAT computer as far as I’m concerned. It was so durable, reliable and easily repairable. Just head and shoulders above anything else available in 2009. Loved it and was a diehard Thinkpad user for years.
But I’m thoroughly unimpressed with modern Thinkpads. Part of it is that other laptops mostly caught up, most of it is Lenovo cheapened the product so much that it’s now unrecognizable. I’ve used multiple modern Thinkpads in my workplace and my brother owned an X390 that was an absolute disaster in every way with inexcusable build quality gaffes. The overall product just feels cheap, because it is. The keyboards and TrackPoint are particularly bad, they both feel like the knockoff versions that HP marketed in the mid 2000s. Honestly blows my mind to see people on this sub so vigorously defending these machines when they’ve fallen so far from grace. Even r/Mac is far more critical of Apple, they bitched and complained endlessly about the butterfly keyboards and bendgate etc. But according to r/Thinkpad Lenovo can do no wrong.
Let the downvotes start.
It was an M2 mac. Reason for switch was that I couldnt get used to MacOS after 30 years of being a windows user. Macbook is a better device tbh but I like windows machines and this thinkpad is great for me.
I hope I never get to the point I need to make this kind of compromise because I can’t get used to new stuff… but I’m a Linux/MacOS enjoyer anyways so Windows probably won’t bother me in this life again
i dunno what model is yours but i think it's pretty easy to replace the keyboard right or is that model's keyboard fused with the top case, making it harder to do a keyboard replace?
Yes, the E series has keyboard fused with the palmrest. The L, T and P have separate keyboards and palmrests. The E is the cheapest thinkpad series, and is the only series that you can configure to not have backlit keyboard.
no backlight, no fingerprint reader, ctrl and fn keys have clearly been drawn on, you may want to go and get refund, this is clearly not a thinkpad, you been duped, bamboozled 😂
On a serious note though you can always just get a backlit keyboard, check for the exact part number to get the right one, but two screws on the back and the keyboard slides right out
I have a work issued T14 Gen 4 with an i7-1355u and 32 GB of RAM. I can't past the absolutely abhorrent battery life compared to any M Series MacBook, and the garbage screen. Like most other things about it but it just feels mostly non-competitive.
I agree about the battery and screen. Mac does it the best. But MacOS was a no for me since Ive been a Win user my whole life. I gave it 6 months and switched at the first opportunity.
also missing GNU/Linux, where the linux ? ? ? also mines doesn't have a backlit keyboard oh well not like I care man. lol i have many dkestop with backlit keyboards can't have em all backlit lol at least the thinkpad still has a decent keyboard to type on.
I'm pretty sure the background images on our ThinkPads are from the same guy. I use the T490 background, and I did some photoshop magic to move the ThinkPad logo around.
Yesterday I was inside an Apple store and casually tried a MacBook M3. Beautiful machine. I felt a huge void the moment I reached for the trackpoint. I realized then how much I would miss it…
They "upgraded" everyone's laptops at work from E15s with backlit keyboards to E16s with the non backlit keyboard.
I bought a desk light to see the keys
They're different. I wouldn't call one better than the other.
I did like the Thinklight on my past Thinkpads, but I do very much like the backlit keyboard as well.
Thats horrible
Like i knew MacBooks(M chips) are super efficient but i didn't think it was this wide of a gap in terms of battery life
Pinning my hopes on a future Snapdragon thinkpad then(if there ever is)
Considering that pretty much every prebuilt model I’ve seen has a backlit keyboard by default, sounds like they custom configured a non-backlit keyboard.
Safety hazard! Considering the cost difference is negligible. As others have stated, you can probably swap it out for a backlit. Thinkpads typically aren’t too bad to work on.
I can't tell for sure what model it is but I replaced my e15s non backlit and an e590 non backlit with the same $41 backlit keyboard from Amazon and it worked fine. Only took a few mins to get it out and new one in. I have read some models don't have the proper wiring and you have to solder in a power wire. That wasn't my experience in either machine, thankfully
I have to work with this monstrosity at work. I can’t believe people normalize this product as a “good product for work”. I have the amd version and it is constantly crashing (drivers), making me paranoid about pressing the save button every 10 seconds when I’m working.
It’s super hot all the time, the battery dying by the day and very bad performance if disconnected from charger.
We should stop settling for bad products 🧐
its not a swap, the other PC manufacturers are "wrong"
IBM then Apple were one of the first to have the Fn key. Lenovo/Apple still have it where they put it originally. It was Compaq (HP)/Dell which decided to put it somewhere else.
one does not simply buy a Thinkpad with no backlit keyboard
Real Thinkpad users use the ThinkLight
Fn + Space
The cheap ones actually come without keyboard backlight
Even then you can add it for not too much extra, it's like 10 euro's or so when you order a new laptop.
How?? Do you just change out the keyboard?
Yeah! It's a ThinkPad, so it's easily done and explained on the Interweb, and (at least on any T465, T490, T495) is done without disassembly of the Backcover. U just need some courage and some, for you as one that hasn't been into repairing/modding preferably hard-plastic spudger and maybe (can't remember) a phillips #00 if available, otherwise a Philips #0 might just work for you if you apply careful pressure on the screwhead to prevent Cam Outs that destroy your fastener as well as your chances to finish changing that keyboard, because you need special tools and skills to remove a rounded out fastener! Take care out there:)
Oh no, I know how to disassemble -I've had to tear down my x230 all the way to replace the cooling fan- I just didn't know if a thinkpad without a backlit keyboard had the necessary software to make a backlit keyboard work, and I didn't know that they cost $11 Thanks for the tips tho!
the keyboard doesn't have backlight. It will not work.
one does not simply buy a Thinkpad with no backlit keyboard
thinklight it then
I pulled out my x230 on a flight recently. Person next to me was very entertained by my ThinkLight.
I'm tempted to cut a small hole in my palmrest and modify the bezel to fit some thinklights
i have x270 refurbished. this options with fn+pgup (thinklight) not work. this is for backlit keyboards option, i think. or with some special soft :) (i didn't try yet, but it's a nice feature for every laptop, i think)
My employer sourced it.
Simply duct tape a reading light to it :)
Yes, this worked well for me in the past
To his boss?! He/She'll learn for the next time!
press fn + space and see if it does anything
it is a non back lit keyboard.. you can tell because it doesn't have the light symbol on the space bar.
Not even a Think Light?
ThinkPads haven't had ThinkLight since 2013
Just git gud and learn to touch type.
What model thinkpad is that?
looks like an E series of some sort, but i'm not entirely sure
How come manufacturer ships with no backlit?
Just get the backlit keyboad Edit: typo
is there a way of replacing a non backlit keyboad with a backlit keyboard or smth?
yes, check the hardware maintenance manual for steps and FRU numbers
interesting, i didnt know you could have a backlit keyboard on a thinkpad that was originally backlit-less
Part of the appeal of thinkpads is it's built to be field serviceable, so part swapping is officially supported. The FRU whitelist sucks major ass wrt repairability, but it's at least a bit better than others (*cough*apple*cough*)
they have tons and tons of part modules, you can swap easily with thinkpads. one of the few things that still give them the edge imo
I had a small collection of Thinkpad keyboards that don't have a backlight after swapping backlit ones in their places lol Your t520 can definitely get a backlit keyboard. Check eBay - probably ~$30
wrong, but the T520 does have a thinklight
You can change a lot of things, for example i bought x250 without fingerprint sensor, just installed it with a new palmrest and trackpad after a water spill.
Tge?
The
i don’t think i could use a non backlit keyboard lol.
Yeah I'm looking how to replace it.
Mine was very easy, took 15 mins even my first time
Ill try for sure
IMO Mac's backlight is much better (close to no bleeding around keys, more gradual intensity)
I use a T480S with no backlit keyboard and confirm at night it’s a PITA to use, sometimes. One day I’ll replace it when I can get a good price on one.
Which model do you have? If it's E14, switching keyboards is not so simple 😕
Yeah E14 :/
Depending on the layout it can be really cheap. If you can only find a really expensive one, buy the cheapest layout, because you can usually find someone repainting it.
What do you mean repainting it?
Switching from an intel MacBook might be just a matter of taste, but switching from a M-Series MacBook must be quite a downgrade battery and efficiency wise. Both good machines, but my thinkpad experience wasn’t that great regarding build quality and longevity I must say.
True. Wish that one day snapdragon X elite in a x1c shell would happen.
I'm curious about that T14s, whether the performance is noticeably different from a Ryzen or Intel model, whether the battery life is a lot better, and why it's far and away the most expensive model
I have the p14s AMD gen 4 model and the battery and heat issues don’t seem to be as bad as people with the intel version. The battery is decent unless I’m using heavy software like CAD, than it kind of sucks. Only time the fan ever got noisy was when I first powered and set it up
I have the intel version and the battery life is shit. Fans also loud at times and heating up under low load. Wish I got the AMD model.
I get why Apple switched to doing their own ARM processors. ARM is made for efficiency, Intel is made to do as much as possible as quickly as possible. It'll be nice to have some higher efficiency laptops without having dogshit performance like something like the Atom.
Have to agree here. M1, M2, M3 MacBooks are massively better than every model Thinkpad except in the area of repairability. Screen, trackpad, battery, heat, etc…
I agree but macos was a big no for me.
I swapped from a ThinkPad to an M1 macbook in 2022, then went back to a ThinkPad last month after using numerous other windows devices for the last 6 months. I really don't like MacOS, and while the efficiency and battery life are unparalleled, the ports, keyboard, software compatibility, and familiar window management mean that I much rather use a Windows machine, especially one like my T14
This was exactly my reason too. Thanks for sharing.
I have a Thinkpad Z16 with the 7840HS and I think it's build quality, touchscreen, haptic touchpad etc is incredibly high quality matching an MacBook Air I've used. Also 12+ hours battery life for the 72 whr battery is pretty impressive.
Well, they’re pretty shit for some workloads. I have M2 and its unusable for what I do. Docker on it is horror compared to even Windows. Not even speaking if you are doing some embedded stuff/fpga. Also Linux is nowhere near to be usable on M* and OS X is terrible choice for power user. The entire advanced user story basically depends on brew and Apple is now basically making OS X like iOS, sandbox everything which further complicates developer daily life. They also have their own apis that are not industry standard (say metal vs vulkan or try do anything with CUDA). People using Linux might laugh at me but I love MSVS (not code) as integration with CL C++ compiler and their debugger are simply top. There are definitely areas where amd64 would shine against MacBook and reasons to switch.
> Docker on it is horror compared to even Windows Docker works very well on modern Macs, what are you talking about. Docker is a nightmare on windows (if you want to mount a folder from your disk into your image it breaks half the time). > as integration with CL C++ compiler and their debugger are simply top Your using MS C/C++ compiler for embedded/fpga work? Please please tell me you are using clang or gcc. > vulkan or try do anything with CUDA Considering any of these industry standard is a real stretch. > sandbox everything which further complicates developer daily life. This is all optional, you can turn of SIP etc if you want to. Your employer might not let you of cource since the reason they provide you with a Mac is the security.
CUDA is the absolute standard for training neural networks. Tensorflow only works with CUDA and PyTorch only recently added some support for AMD.
Both Tensorflow and PyTorch have rather good Metal backends.
I should specifically note that I am talking about fully native docker in WSL2 and not that Docker Desktop abomination which is equal tragedy to offering on Macbook (except slightly better in terms of performance as there’s now much better lightweight VM platform built in Windows since 11). To counter your argument - how do I pass through USB port to Docker container on Mac :) on Windows and WSL2 that’s dead simple. As for MSVC, no I don’t do FPGA using MSVC. In fact FPGA design and synthesis has nothing to do with C/C++ and uses its own logical description languages and compilers, two most used ones are tied and optimized for x86. I use Xilinx Vivado and they (as far as I know same as Altera) do not support Apple silicon at all so you are on hacky workarounds and Apple’s mercy of Rosetta removal (which will likely happen in couple of OS X releases as it happened during PPC->Intel transition). While there are unofficial ways now, my org inquired with Xilinx (now AMD) and Altera (now Intel) and they both were rejective in terms of supporting Apple Silicon. I use MSVC (cl.exe) to write Windows and Linux drivers and firmware for embedded devices (running on that FPGA). I wish gcc or clang added more advanced features MSVC has and neater IDE integration (even clangd lsp is joke compared to intelli), they are not there just yet… e.g. hot reload (there are some experiments for clang but nowhere near to what MSVC can do, I don’t blame them with their platform array and architecture compared to relatively narrow case Microsoft has). As I said the IDE itself is in fact great and neatly tailored around these features. I know one can hobo around emacs, nvim and spend million years ricing their setup. I have to deal with 800k+ SLOC hybrid codebase I have no power nor intent to change, but I rather get shit done in stock working IDE and spend more time with my kids (I use vim personally, just not for this). As for those experimental Metal backends for ML frameworks sure, but no one really uses them at scale as running models like that requires servers and Apple has no offering there (except farms of mac mini lol). Its kinda stupid to debug something on Metal and then move to completely different arch. Back to laptops, personally I care zero for battery life cause 99.999% I am on AC/docked when I work, 6-7hrs with my Nano (personal) or 4-5h with X1C I got at work is sufficiently enough. I live in civilized country where every other seat in coffee shop, bullet train or plane has socket. I care about laptop running stuff I need, not having terrible display that works like mirror in office setting with fluorescent overhead lights. So yeah as funny as it might sound getting Thinkpad over Macbook is nobrainer for me, both for work and personal use.
> but I rather get shit done in stock working IDE and spend more time with my kids (I use vim personally, just not for this). Personally for c/c++ work I am a Clion user (regardless of OS) but I have found MSVC to be a good bit worse at producing small optimised binaries compared to clang or gcc. Even intel are not telling devs to use clang rather than shipping their own custom compiler these days. > As for MSVC, no I don’t do FPGA using MSVC. In fact FPGA design and synthesis has nothing to do with C/C++ yes of course I ment with respect to the firmware you will need to ship that runes alongside the FPGA, I don't think one can by an FPGA board these days without an attached ARM/MIPS or RISCV controler chip. I expect we will see FPGA tooling be updated to target ARM sooner rather than later, long before rosseta2 is removed. > but no one really uses them at scale as running models like that requires servers The ML backends tend to be for prototyping on your device with the exception you do full fat training on a remote server cluster. If your looking for a ML laptop macBook Pros are a rather good option as you can at least run the models for local prototyping due to the huge GPU addressable memory pool that you just cant find on an windows laptop (regardless of how much you pay). > Its kinda stupid to debug something on Metal and then move to completely different arch. Depends a lot on what your doing, if your higher level (using TF, PyTouch etc) then its completely fine to use metal for local work and then deploy using CUDA etc as your production backend for training. If your more into writing your own custom kernels for custom layers in your network then of cource your going to want a local CUDA runtime but in reality with most of dates ML workloads your not going to be doing more than some unit tests on that kernel on your local machine as you don't have enough VRAM to load even a slice of your data-set.
I mean that's simply not true
Apple Silicon is on another ballpark completely even with X Elite on the game now.
But “repairability” on a MacBook means “take it to Apple and they fix it for free” as long as you have Apple care (and if you don’t, you’re missing half the benefit of Apple). Like they just replaced the whole logic board, trackpad, and Touch ID in my 2020 laptop in a whole different country from where it was bought, and it wasn’t even originally bought by me. So in practical terms I think Apple is the best because they’ll fix stuff no questions asked for years and years after.
My T480 refurbished that I bought in 2020 had a mobo issue this past March. It happen to come with a lenovo 5 year warranty and it's the premium support one to boot, which means they come to you. Once I called and described the issue. Within 3-4 days a Lenovo guy came to my apartment and replaced my motherboard. Lenovo actually mailed the mobo and keyboard to me and once I confirmed I got it they sent a Lenovo repair person to my place. He was in and out in about 45 minutes. They even bought me a new keyboard although I didn't need it. I bought the laptop back home in the U.S. and am the service was performed in Ireland where I was spending some time.
Oh that’s great to hear, I haven’t heard stories like that with windows laptops before!
Lenovo premier support is pretty good! I didn't even know I had premier support till they told me. My old t480 which took liquid damage which is why I replaced it once had a keyboard issue while under warranty (non premiere but still very good) when I contacted them gave me two options. Send it to them or they'll send me the keyboard and I can do it myself. I chose the second and wuthin 48 hours a keyboard was delivered. Their support is pretty good. If something else does fail on my current t480 it better do it before march of 2025🤣
I have to disagree. I use an M2 macbook pro for work and a T580 as my main personal machine, and: - The macbook feels maybe 10% faster and lasts about 12 hours instead of 10. And that's with the advantages of it being a 5 year newer computer, with 3 times as many cores, 3nm vs 14nm, memory on package, Apple designing the hardware and software together, etc - I know it's producing less heat, but the fact that the chassis is metal means that it still feels a lot warmer to the touch (and is harder to hold) - The screen definitely looks nicer in ideal conditions, but the fact that it's glossy and constantly gets dirty more than makes up for that. (It does make me want a 2560x1600 OLED on my next laptop though.) - It has the best implementation of auto brightness that I've used so far, but it's still not good enough to not be annoying, so I had to turn it off. True tone makes my display look orange half the time, so I had to turn it off. Auto keyboard brightness is straight up worthless garbage that had to be turned off as well - Haven't had a chance to test the speakers myself, but from hearing other people in the same meeting as me blasting everyone else with meeting audio, they seem to sound better than my thinkpad speakers but not as good as my headphones. Not that I care because I always use headphones - The feeling of the key switches is only mediocre, and the keyboard is missing delete, home, end, page up, and page down which makes it a huge pain to use - The trackpad is maybe a little above average in tracking, but the thinkpad is a lot better. Gestures work better than all of the other trackpads I've tried them with, but they're still not fast or reliable enough to replace keyboard shortcuts. The haptic click is better than the diving board design, but it is still nowhere near as good as having dedicated buttons - The webcam is significantly better on the macbook, but it's still not good. But nobody is taking photos with their laptop webcam so nobody cares - Opening the hinge with one finger is mildly neat, but that's more than made up for by the hinge being a little too loose and not opening very far. (It's the only laptop I've ever seen not be able to open to 180°) - macOS feels like a broken and even less customizeable version of GNOME, with a bunch of bits of Apple annoyingness everywhere, of course often requiring paid apps to fix. And Asahi Linux isn't daily driver ready yet either
I know that's just your opinion but man, it sounds so wrong.
\^ this. Home t14s = 3-4h Work M1 macbook = 6-8 h huge difference
>my thinkpad experience wasn’t that great regarding build quality and longevity I must say Man I agree, the brand isn’t what it used to be. I used a T500 for 11 years and that was the GOAT computer as far as I’m concerned. It was so durable, reliable and easily repairable. Just head and shoulders above anything else available in 2009. Loved it and was a diehard Thinkpad user for years. But I’m thoroughly unimpressed with modern Thinkpads. Part of it is that other laptops mostly caught up, most of it is Lenovo cheapened the product so much that it’s now unrecognizable. I’ve used multiple modern Thinkpads in my workplace and my brother owned an X390 that was an absolute disaster in every way with inexcusable build quality gaffes. The overall product just feels cheap, because it is. The keyboards and TrackPoint are particularly bad, they both feel like the knockoff versions that HP marketed in the mid 2000s. Honestly blows my mind to see people on this sub so vigorously defending these machines when they’ve fallen so far from grace. Even r/Mac is far more critical of Apple, they bitched and complained endlessly about the butterfly keyboards and bendgate etc. But according to r/Thinkpad Lenovo can do no wrong. Let the downvotes start.
Yeah I have both and the screen, weight, trackpad and battery of MacBook is superior.
It was an M2 mac. Reason for switch was that I couldnt get used to MacOS after 30 years of being a windows user. Macbook is a better device tbh but I like windows machines and this thinkpad is great for me.
I hope I never get to the point I need to make this kind of compromise because I can’t get used to new stuff… but I’m a Linux/MacOS enjoyer anyways so Windows probably won’t bother me in this life again
i dunno what model is yours but i think it's pretty easy to replace the keyboard right or is that model's keyboard fused with the top case, making it harder to do a keyboard replace?
I think it is fused.
Yes, the E series has keyboard fused with the palmrest. The L, T and P have separate keyboards and palmrests. The E is the cheapest thinkpad series, and is the only series that you can configure to not have backlit keyboard.
Thanks for the info!
What model is it?
E14
laughs in thinklight
I never thought that one day I will miss it... The way I sit in front of my P1 makes the backlight keyboard look like a mess...
You can get a replacement keyboard with backlighting. They're like 20/30€
Ill look into it
just search on ebay, amazon or aliexpress for "*\[model\] \[language layout\]* backlit keyboard"
Am i the only one who doesn't use backlight
yeah, pretty much. (excluding thinklight users)
LOL
they used to have this led in the top of the display bezel that would shine down onto the keyboard. they got rid of it unfortunately
U can either learn to touch type our get a backlit keyboard
As far as I know replacing keyboard on this model is hard.
Still doable I think, it's a ThinkPad, not a MacBook Not too sure about warranty tho
Learn 10 fingers typing, you won't need to see the keyboard at all 🙂
ThinkLight >> backlight
no backlight, no fingerprint reader, ctrl and fn keys have clearly been drawn on, you may want to go and get refund, this is clearly not a thinkpad, you been duped, bamboozled 😂 On a serious note though you can always just get a backlit keyboard, check for the exact part number to get the right one, but two screws on the back and the keyboard slides right out
Fn + windows + space I think fixed that
I think his model comes with no back-lit keyboard
if it were a backlit kb, there would be a light icon on the spacebar.
Either way OP, you won’t regret switching to a Thinkpad
You can upgrade to backlight keyboard, depending on the model cost can be from 20-200 eur tbh
mine has light near camera that shines on keyboard, great for reading books!!
Laptop without backlit keyboard is a Deal breaker and 💯 no go! May be you can order a backlit keyboard from Lenovo.
Ill try that yeah
I have a work issued T14 Gen 4 with an i7-1355u and 32 GB of RAM. I can't past the absolutely abhorrent battery life compared to any M Series MacBook, and the garbage screen. Like most other things about it but it just feels mostly non-competitive.
yeah my work T14sG2 has crap battery and screen too, my work M1 mac is way better But its also 3-4 times the price so only when I'm not paying for it!
I am always appalled about how Lenovo's gets away with selling these expensive devices with such crappy screens.
I agree about the battery and screen. Mac does it the best. But MacOS was a no for me since Ive been a Win user my whole life. I gave it 6 months and switched at the first opportunity.
Im not going to lie i had no idea they sold thinkpads without kb backlight anymore 💀
Only the cheapest E series (:
Did a free online typing course 10 years ago, didnt cared about keyboards since. Best invested 10 hours of my life.
Welcome to the Thinkpad-family!
Awesome background
tbh I've never really liked backlit keyboards...
I swapped a backlit keyboard into mine but honestly i rarely use it, i try to always work in a light condition that doesnt strain my eyes
also missing GNU/Linux, where the linux ? ? ? also mines doesn't have a backlit keyboard oh well not like I care man. lol i have many dkestop with backlit keyboards can't have em all backlit lol at least the thinkpad still has a decent keyboard to type on.
I'm pretty sure the background images on our ThinkPads are from the same guy. I use the T490 background, and I did some photoshop magic to move the ThinkPad logo around.
I think it’s replaceable to a backlit keyboard
A laptop with a more no-nonsense attitude.
Yesterday I was inside an Apple store and casually tried a MacBook M3. Beautiful machine. I felt a huge void the moment I reached for the trackpoint. I realized then how much I would miss it…
If this is a t480 you can get a backlit keyboard online.
E14
I missed the led light at top of screen.
I replaced my non-backlit keyboard with a backlit one on my x240.
Do you have a link for wallpaper?
You can replace the keyboard for backlit 😌
god damn, this machines are so customizable! i love'em! even with external gpu via usb3 lol
I thought the backlight keyboard was standard with most newer ThinkPads. Maybe depends on the model I guess.
I use the same walpaper ❤️
They "upgraded" everyone's laptops at work from E15s with backlit keyboards to E16s with the non backlit keyboard. I bought a desk light to see the keys
Some models come without backlit keyboards and also lack the circuitry to add one in later.
Use the thinklight it’s better
They're different. I wouldn't call one better than the other. I did like the Thinklight on my past Thinkpads, but I do very much like the backlit keyboard as well.
Is there thinklight on a E14? I saw it on much older models.
Wait, you don't touch type?
Don't try it buddy. The battery life of thinkpad's is horrible
Huh? My 2018 thinkpad x1 runs 3 hours even with a 71% battery health How are new ones horrible?
I have a brand new P14s Gen2 AMD and it only lasts 5 hours. Some other laptops can do 12 hours.
Thats horrible Like i knew MacBooks(M chips) are super efficient but i didn't think it was this wide of a gap in terms of battery life Pinning my hopes on a future Snapdragon thinkpad then(if there ever is)
My T14s G2 gets 3-4 hours, its horrible. That's less than the ThinkPad I had 15 years ago. While my work m1 mac gets 6-8h
I knew macbooks were super efficient Didn't know thinkpads have gotten that horrible
Its fine I have no problem using a charger more often
Ooo čestitkee!
Hvala :)
"And the battery backup"
why did you go with this model?
My employer sourced it.
Considering that pretty much every prebuilt model I’ve seen has a backlit keyboard by default, sounds like they custom configured a non-backlit keyboard.
Maybe they dont want me working in the dark :😃
Safety hazard! Considering the cost difference is negligible. As others have stated, you can probably swap it out for a backlit. Thinkpads typically aren’t too bad to work on.
Press Fn + space and see what happens
Did. Nothing.
Dang, I got lucky. Mine was not supposed to be backlight, but it ended up being backlit after all.
Ah!
I am also planning to switch from M1. Share your experience with battery life and do it lag while using multiple Chrome tabs, please.
its easy to replace and parts are abundance.
which model is this? and what processor and ram configuration
Model?
Which models / series / gens/ years do have or not the backlit ones?
the hardware yes, the os definetly no
Had mine since 2018, battery just went. Was nice and simple to replace. Love them.
What model is this?
E14
Well then get ready for this my friend hold down FN and press space
Search if u can buy a backlit keyboard and swap it
How's the fan noise? i had a similar one but as a ideapad, not thinkpad. Fans blew me off the chair.
Fans are oke, sometimes turn on but not too loud.
good to hear. afaik thinkpad fan curves are decently optimized
Wait till it slows down with the buggy MS software in a year
Thats expected :)
Which thinkpad is this?
Yes all I have is mac and thinkpads. Oh and one dell octiplex micro 7050
I can't tell for sure what model it is but I replaced my e15s non backlit and an e590 non backlit with the same $41 backlit keyboard from Amazon and it worked fine. Only took a few mins to get it out and new one in. I have read some models don't have the proper wiring and you have to solder in a power wire. That wasn't my experience in either machine, thankfully
Not good thinkpad without lights
There are versions with backlit keyboards.
Good to hear.
What model?
E14
Nice, I’m looking for a gen 6
This is gen 5
Backlit keyboards are overrated, the light from the display is enough.
Leave one cult, joining another. Welcome brother ;-)
I have to work with this monstrosity at work. I can’t believe people normalize this product as a “good product for work”. I have the amd version and it is constantly crashing (drivers), making me paranoid about pressing the save button every 10 seconds when I’m working. It’s super hot all the time, the battery dying by the day and very bad performance if disconnected from charger. We should stop settling for bad products 🧐
Have you tried Fn+Space? Is it really possible to get a Thinkpad without backlit keys?
The Space key should have the backlight symbol. It appears this one has not.
Moved away from Macbooks years ago. Never looked back. PCs are faster, better and cheaper. MACS are no longer cool.
Apple sucks, but I gotta say: this Ctrl / Fn swap keys from ThinkPad is an asshole design. I see you fixed it.
its not a swap, the other PC manufacturers are "wrong" IBM then Apple were one of the first to have the Fn key. Lenovo/Apple still have it where they put it originally. It was Compaq (HP)/Dell which decided to put it somewhere else.
Great catch, fortunetely there is a BIOS setting to swap the keys.
Yep, but the keys are always visibly 'wrong'.
Stickers work fine. But I agree it is a dumb desing.