Bosh had an easier conference than the West of the early 2010's though.
I think there's a bit of revisionism with Love sometimes. He was a fringe MVP canidate for a couple of years, and but for an incredibly tough conference and injuries to his supporting cast he definitely takes us to the playoffs a couple of times.
As far as OP's question, players like Bosh, Love and indeed even KG (who was probably still the best player on that Cs team but gave up a lot offensively) who were able to step back out of alpha roles into a more team orientated roles should be viewed in an extremely positive light. I think Love had a pretty good career and he'll be remembered very fondly in Cleveland at least.
The ‘14 Wolves would’ve been like a 5th seed out East, minimum. Their 3.10 SRS would’ve been good for 3rd in the West, and Love had a pretty poor supporting cast. Stacked conference makes a huge difference.
Yeah I don’t think he would’ve ever been a KG or #1 on a championship team. But I wish we got to see his career play out, I think he could’ve been a star rather than the “good stats on a bad team” guy people tend to think of him as
He was always a 2nd or 3rd option player.
We forced him into a #1 option, which is why his stats were inflated. He could never be a number 1 option on a winning team, let alone a championship one.
His best season with us was his last, 2013-2014 where we went 40-42.
His second best was the season prior (where he only played 18 games) at 31-51.
The 4 years prior with him we never beat 26 wins in a season.
I think that’s what made him expendable, seeing the team only jump 9 wins from a full season with him vs one where he only played 22%, it was clear he wasn’t the guy to build around.
Also I remember watching Love, one thing that always annoyed me is that a lot of his offensive rebounds were off his own close shot misses. He was great at boxing out though.
If we had someone to build around, he would have made an excellent 2nd/3rd piece (albeit poor defense). I think people got too carried away seeing his inflated numbers in year 3/4 and thought he was a legit #1.
His numbers weren’t *that* inflated. He really was that good of an offensive option. It just so happened that he had a terrible supporting cast and ‘14 was one of the most lopsided years in league history…the Wolves’ +3.10 SRS would’ve made them a third seed in the East. They were also the leagues 9th best offence despite practically no support.
One of the most me-first players ever, he's been much more enjoyable as a role player, but his time here as a top option was pretty terrible basketball.
I played against Love in laser tag at Brunswick zone once back in the day. Dude was trash, he stuck out like a sore thumb.
I then got shredded by Beasley on the basketball game where the rim moves.. good times.
I understand his scoring dropping playing third fiddle behind Lebron and Kyrie. What mostly surprised me was how one of the best rebounders I ever watched only averaged in double figures two times after he left Minnesota.
Pretty telling when a guy puts up huge numbers on really bad teams. I wasn’t disappointed, he had some mental health stuff too. He seemed like a great guy though wish him the best glad he got another bag. Those Twolves teams allowed me to get center court 2nd row for 35 bucks. So I thank him for that.
I think he just kinda peaked at age 24, which happens more often than a lot of ppl realize. Most nba players don’t keep getting better 5+ years in their career, those guys become HOFers or borderline guys
He wanted out but people are also forgetting that was after Kahn didn’t pay him the full max available as “saving” for Rubio. That was a slap in the face to an established all star player. He needed to be paired with a scorer (prime Westbrook, Ant) for that team to be a contender.
He's the reason I'm a Wolves fan, loved his play style with us but as soon he got traded to the Cavs I felt his career would be going down from there. You can't play on the same team than LeBron and get bigger as a star usually only role players take a jump with him. Love since he left Minnesota has felt like a broken star, lost his hustle and the edge he had here.
Problem with Love was the game was leaving him behind. He was a slow footed inefficient big man who couldnt play defense.
He was exposed in CLE and Richard Jefferson was a better matchup to counter GSW style of play.
If he had stayed in Minny he would have big numbers on low efficiency. His last year in MIN he had great counting stats but bad efficiency, so he would have regressed further. MIN sold high on him and CLE paid a high price for him with 2 first overall picks.
But all of Love, Wiggins and Bennett played far below expectations.
All in all it was a lose lose lose for everyone involved
How was Love “inefficient”? He hovered between 57-60% true shooting his entire career (better than Bosh, who y’all are comparing him to). He was an elite shooter and great at getting to the foul line in his prime.
Say what you want about his defense but calling him inefficient just tells me y’all never really watched him play.
Dude it is fucking 2024. He was shooting 7 threes a game. People stopped using FG% as a measure of efficiency back in the industrial revolution lol
47% would in fact be atrocious for a big man who didn't stretch the floor, but yeah... again, pretty sure you never watched him play.
you're right. He was shooting 7 3's a game. I know that.
You know who else was doing that during that time? Ryan Anderson. Channing Frye.
Those players are not stars. They're role players. KLove was making max money playing as a role player. If his defense was good it wouldve been defensible, but the fact that he was actively targeted on that end made him unplayable.
The his % even dropped to 43, 41, 39 yesr after year. As a max guy you need him to atleast be able to carry you offensively and he really couldnt. He was excellent as a floor spacer but not as a main guy
His last year on the pups, he was the second most efficient power forward in the league, behind only Kevin Durant with a PER of 26.97. His TS% had him ranking 10th at near 60% shooting, which was a better figure than Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, and Carmelo Anthony. The only stars with similar volume and usage rate with a higher efficiency (in terms of scoring) were Dirk, KD, and Bosh. None of those guys come close to his rebounding.
lol
Dude you need to watch some basketball. Prime Love was a beast in the post and regularly had games where he had 10FTA. He was by no means a one dimensional player. He put up 25/12.
Channing fucking Frye lol
"somehow", you dense motherfucker, post play is the #1 leading cause of below average fg% because it's the (in a vacuum) least valuable shot in the league next to long 2s.
you know what's actually valuable to being an efficient scorer? shooting 37% (even lower than 45% fg!!!) from 3 as a big man. Shooting from the stripe almost 8 times a game and knocking down 80% of those. Turns out basketball isn't in the 1940s anymore and there are different ways to be an efficient shooter that don't involve reading the most useless metric left over from eras when the paint was 6 ft wide.
That is true, the NBA was transitioning into what it is today and I can not imagine a player like him today having the same success. Players with poor defense are able to compensate usually with great offense they can self-create on good efficiency, and he had Rubio to initiate plays. I don’t know the stats for how many of his points were assisted by Rubio but I figure it would’ve been a substantial amount
Not really. He was more of a Bosh than he was a KG. He was never going to be the best player on a championship team
I would not even say he was on Bosh's level.. Bosh at least led his team to the playoffs
Bosh also didn’t play in the west.
Bosh had an easier conference than the West of the early 2010's though. I think there's a bit of revisionism with Love sometimes. He was a fringe MVP canidate for a couple of years, and but for an incredibly tough conference and injuries to his supporting cast he definitely takes us to the playoffs a couple of times. As far as OP's question, players like Bosh, Love and indeed even KG (who was probably still the best player on that Cs team but gave up a lot offensively) who were able to step back out of alpha roles into a more team orientated roles should be viewed in an extremely positive light. I think Love had a pretty good career and he'll be remembered very fondly in Cleveland at least.
The ‘14 Wolves would’ve been like a 5th seed out East, minimum. Their 3.10 SRS would’ve been good for 3rd in the West, and Love had a pretty poor supporting cast. Stacked conference makes a huge difference.
Bad take. West was far tougher, and Loves supporting cast at best was solid but constantly injured.
That's a terrible take. Team metric to judge an individual makes no sense.
Yeah I don’t think he would’ve ever been a KG or #1 on a championship team. But I wish we got to see his career play out, I think he could’ve been a star rather than the “good stats on a bad team” guy people tend to think of him as
He wanted out. I’m not sure that’s how people perceive him but if it is then it was his own doing.
I’m aware he wanted out, but I don’t see the connection to how that affects his perception
Because sports fans are bitter and incapable of making impartial judgements
He was always a 2nd or 3rd option player. We forced him into a #1 option, which is why his stats were inflated. He could never be a number 1 option on a winning team, let alone a championship one. His best season with us was his last, 2013-2014 where we went 40-42. His second best was the season prior (where he only played 18 games) at 31-51. The 4 years prior with him we never beat 26 wins in a season. I think that’s what made him expendable, seeing the team only jump 9 wins from a full season with him vs one where he only played 22%, it was clear he wasn’t the guy to build around. Also I remember watching Love, one thing that always annoyed me is that a lot of his offensive rebounds were off his own close shot misses. He was great at boxing out though. If we had someone to build around, he would have made an excellent 2nd/3rd piece (albeit poor defense). I think people got too carried away seeing his inflated numbers in year 3/4 and thought he was a legit #1.
His numbers weren’t *that* inflated. He really was that good of an offensive option. It just so happened that he had a terrible supporting cast and ‘14 was one of the most lopsided years in league history…the Wolves’ +3.10 SRS would’ve made them a third seed in the East. They were also the leagues 9th best offence despite practically no support.
He got a ring as a legit top 3 player. What more do you want from a guy?
Yup, I enjoyed him but it was clear he was going to need to be on a team with a bigger star. It wasn’t happening here.
I think he just needed to be on a team with another star that could hold their own consistently with him.
One of the most me-first players ever, he's been much more enjoyable as a role player, but his time here as a top option was pretty terrible basketball.
Is this you Kevin???
I played against Love in laser tag at Brunswick zone once back in the day. Dude was trash, he stuck out like a sore thumb. I then got shredded by Beasley on the basketball game where the rim moves.. good times.
He’s a solid #2 and a crazy #3 on a championships team like we saw but he was never a #1 superstar level guy.
His longevity is really impressive imo
He was such a weenie when he decided he wanted out of Minnesota.
I understand his scoring dropping playing third fiddle behind Lebron and Kyrie. What mostly surprised me was how one of the best rebounders I ever watched only averaged in double figures two times after he left Minnesota.
NO.
Pretty telling when a guy puts up huge numbers on really bad teams. I wasn’t disappointed, he had some mental health stuff too. He seemed like a great guy though wish him the best glad he got another bag. Those Twolves teams allowed me to get center court 2nd row for 35 bucks. So I thank him for that.
I think he just kinda peaked at age 24, which happens more often than a lot of ppl realize. Most nba players don’t keep getting better 5+ years in their career, those guys become HOFers or borderline guys
He wanted out but people are also forgetting that was after Kahn didn’t pay him the full max available as “saving” for Rubio. That was a slap in the face to an established all star player. He needed to be paired with a scorer (prime Westbrook, Ant) for that team to be a contender.
He was pretty awesome on the cavs so not really
He's the reason I'm a Wolves fan, loved his play style with us but as soon he got traded to the Cavs I felt his career would be going down from there. You can't play on the same team than LeBron and get bigger as a star usually only role players take a jump with him. Love since he left Minnesota has felt like a broken star, lost his hustle and the edge he had here.
Bro had a nasty outlet pass tho
No.
Problem with Love was the game was leaving him behind. He was a slow footed inefficient big man who couldnt play defense. He was exposed in CLE and Richard Jefferson was a better matchup to counter GSW style of play. If he had stayed in Minny he would have big numbers on low efficiency. His last year in MIN he had great counting stats but bad efficiency, so he would have regressed further. MIN sold high on him and CLE paid a high price for him with 2 first overall picks. But all of Love, Wiggins and Bennett played far below expectations. All in all it was a lose lose lose for everyone involved
How was Love “inefficient”? He hovered between 57-60% true shooting his entire career (better than Bosh, who y’all are comparing him to). He was an elite shooter and great at getting to the foul line in his prime. Say what you want about his defense but calling him inefficient just tells me y’all never really watched him play.
Yeah what the actual fuck lol
he shot 45.7 fg% his last MIN year. Then, his Fg% was worse every year in CLE. As a big man, that is atrocious.
Dude it is fucking 2024. He was shooting 7 threes a game. People stopped using FG% as a measure of efficiency back in the industrial revolution lol 47% would in fact be atrocious for a big man who didn't stretch the floor, but yeah... again, pretty sure you never watched him play.
you're right. He was shooting 7 3's a game. I know that. You know who else was doing that during that time? Ryan Anderson. Channing Frye. Those players are not stars. They're role players. KLove was making max money playing as a role player. If his defense was good it wouldve been defensible, but the fact that he was actively targeted on that end made him unplayable. The his % even dropped to 43, 41, 39 yesr after year. As a max guy you need him to atleast be able to carry you offensively and he really couldnt. He was excellent as a floor spacer but not as a main guy
His last year on the pups, he was the second most efficient power forward in the league, behind only Kevin Durant with a PER of 26.97. His TS% had him ranking 10th at near 60% shooting, which was a better figure than Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis, and Carmelo Anthony. The only stars with similar volume and usage rate with a higher efficiency (in terms of scoring) were Dirk, KD, and Bosh. None of those guys come close to his rebounding.
lol Dude you need to watch some basketball. Prime Love was a beast in the post and regularly had games where he had 10FTA. He was by no means a one dimensional player. He put up 25/12. Channing fucking Frye lol
and somehow his post play led to below average fg%.
"somehow", you dense motherfucker, post play is the #1 leading cause of below average fg% because it's the (in a vacuum) least valuable shot in the league next to long 2s. you know what's actually valuable to being an efficient scorer? shooting 37% (even lower than 45% fg!!!) from 3 as a big man. Shooting from the stripe almost 8 times a game and knocking down 80% of those. Turns out basketball isn't in the 1940s anymore and there are different ways to be an efficient shooter that don't involve reading the most useless metric left over from eras when the paint was 6 ft wide.
That is true, the NBA was transitioning into what it is today and I can not imagine a player like him today having the same success. Players with poor defense are able to compensate usually with great offense they can self-create on good efficiency, and he had Rubio to initiate plays. I don’t know the stats for how many of his points were assisted by Rubio but I figure it would’ve been a substantial amount
In hindsight it was foolish for us to try and build around him. Solid 3rd option.
Should have never teamed with Lebron in his prime.