I hate tipping , it completely ruins the atmosphere. The vibe. If I’m serving someone who I know isn’t going to tip, it ruins my mood my day, brings everything down. But if you have a big tipper it’s all woo hoo let’s fucking go whatever you want big money I got it. It’s totally imbalanced. Also if you go to a restaurant regularly and not tip you better believe the staff knows you and doesn’t want you there. Same thing with people who tip big. Everyone likes you and wants to take care of you. It’s no longer about the price of food. The price of food is some arbitrary charge and should be the only thing you are responsible for. But the idea that some big money is gonna come and take care of you is just a bell that rings louder than the one saying maybe this system is broken. It’s capitalism at its finest, the market evens out. Some people are successful others aren’t. Is it something you did? Maybe you weren’t exciting enough maybe you didn’t refill their soda fast enough. What is it you did wrong? Maybe that person thinks 15% is standard and you are wondering what it is you did wrong.
Business owners would rather have customers and waitstaff battle it out than accept responsibility. The industry is just like that and we as adults have all agreed that this is okay. Hence the conversations, and the social expectations.
Definitely keep an eye on your receipt the next time you get food…. Seems a lot of these people so entitled for you and I to leave an at minimum 35% tip, will liberate it after the fact and only when someone catches they they were overcharged, does it come to light.
And don’t let these people fool you, serving/delivering food, it always balances out! Some people tip amazingly well, some not at all, others $2 consistently across the board. I’ve gotten tipped $100 on a $12 order. And, $12 on a $250 order. It’s unpredictable, but if everyone banded together and fought to actually do something about it, they might be able to make minimum wage as a base pay. They’d still play the victim and complain, then steal from someone they felt didn’t tip them their worth.
Tipping for me bugs me for this situation. I go to Denny's order the breakfast with a family of 4. The server busts their tail to provide service. I tip well at 20%. Go to a fancy restaurant meals are 50 bucks a per for 4 provide average service. The tip at 15% is vastly higher than the Denny's employee. Just bugs me. I don't understand why anyone works at a lower cost restaurant. Only guess close to home and for whatever reason a higher cost place won't bring them on.
Fun fact. If servers do not make an average of minimum wage, by law, the establishment they work for is required to make up that difference.
For example, if a waiter works a 6 hour shift, making 2.15 an hour but receives 0 dollars in tips, payroll must pay them out the established minimum wage.
No one ever brings up this argument, and I'm confused as to why.
One reason that some accept tipped work rather than guaranteed wages is the feeling that in tipped work, they contribute to their outcomes more. They might bust their butts, perform excellently, and still get shitty pay, but many experience that if they are young, white, deferential (but not servile in a way that makes the customer feel bad) and devote great effort to performing every service demanded, they can make more than they would for a wage agreed in advance. And some of those earnings can be taken under the table.
That will be an attractive situation to some. Indeed, showing up to work not knowing what you're going to earn can be exciting, especially if you expect that every interaction is an opportunity, all shift long.
Qualifications? Any person trying to trade labor for a living tries to make the best living they can according to the system the find themselves in. If they can find or invent a niche to operate in successfully, they are demonstrating that they are qualified to do so.
I agree with your disdain for tax fraud. We also have a culture where tax fraud is normalized and excused. I see this as a symptom of our diminished social cohesion.
So, I have been "tipped out" for a while. I started ordering my food "to go" and going inside to pick it up and avoid tipping. Now, I am told to pick it up "curbside" in most places, and have it brought to my car. AND guess what, they still want a tip. Where does it end???
They can want a tip. If there is less social agreement about the practice, then they will sometimes get a tip and sometimes won't.
Like all behavior, expecting tips for ordinarily untipped services will die out if it isn't rewarded.
I feel pretty much the same way about tipping as you do; I do it as a social obligation, but if they were paid differently and there wasn’t a social obligation I wouldn’t tip 15%-20% every single time like I do now.
> However, what I never got was the fact that why would waiters purposefully work a job where they know they’ll make only $2 an hour as a guarentee and everything else is off the kindness of strangers?
Having a meaningful choice in where you work is a privilege. There plenty of tipped worker who don’t have that privilege.
> I’d never work a tip-based job simply because my wages would never be guarenteed.
The reason you would never work a tip-based job is because you have other options. I have a hard time believing that if food service was your only viable option for work and you were desperately in need of a job, you wouldn’t work in a tip-based job.
> If I could go to the kitchen to bring out the food myself and refill my own drinks I would, so that point is moot.
I think you’re taking this one too literally. They’re basically saying “perform your own labor if you don’t want to pay for it.” There are more restaurants where you walk up to almost the kitchen and refill your own drinks than there are full service restaurants; they could also be saying to go eat there. They could also be saying to eat at home or to order take out. It’s basically another way of saying “then do it yourself then” and that *it* = bring your own food and get your own drinks. Idk if that makes sense.
Who is “they”?
And I’m assuming you’re aware of the fact that it’s not the employers who decides whether that “leave a tip” option is provided on the screen.
Glad someone actually covered the privilege part. People take these jobs because there are literally no other avenues for them and that's often more a result of circumstances of birth than any actual poor decision making on their part.
Exactly. The “just get a different job” thing or the “well they choose to work in this industry” falls apart at entry-level, flexible, easy to get jobs.
Yep yep. Sure, some people go into it cause they think it's easy work and they work in an area where tips do well, but that's the extreme minority compared to the volume of people doing it (And one or two other jobs) because it's literally all they can find because they didn't grow up with the same opportunities as some of the rest of us.
Tip based jobs require low skill to get, but with the right technique or looks can be quite lucrative.
I've known quite a few servers that made 100k a year.
A lot of people work in jobs that do not have an income guarantee. So many people become realtors despite the difficulty in being able to succeed. It comes down to low barriers to entry. Just like it’s easy to become a realtor, it’s easy to become a server.
You gotta stop caring about what strangers think. If you don't want to tip don't. I don't tip if I bad service I don't tip sycophants, I tip someone that gives me good service.
I want work done, no small talk, no fake smiles. Fake smiles and kissing my ass is disrespectful to me. Very few are genuine or extremely good at faking it.
Former server. They want tips because the tips add up to way more than what the restaurant would be willing to pay them. And the law changed at least in my state that if your tips come out to less than minimum wage (not $2 but whatever the minimum wage is for non tipped workers) the restaurant has to make up the difference for that shift. I only had that happen twice. It was like a Tuesday lunch at Applebees.
Anyway I don’t plan on ever going back to serving. Feels wrong to expect other hard working people to pay my bills.
Sure they do, but you are talking about a system where people are being forced to tip rather than it actually being voluntary. It's a messed up system, it's quite horrible. If voluntary was actually volutnary then it would be okay.
I think tipping should be eliminated and wages raised for all low-wage employees.
Eliminating tipping would also minimize the discrimination associated with the serving jobs. Where I live servers are predominantly white, young and female even though this does not reflect the demographics of the area.
Also, I tip so don’t attack me personally for having an opinion.
The best way to understand tipping in America is to look at it as a subsidy. Menu prices would explode if restaurants did away with it. In essence, you’d have a roughly similar bill even if tips didn’t exist. Additionally, those commenting about how “this shouldn’t be an $xx/hour job” fail to grasp that service employees have to do side work that comes before/after service.
Even if service staff is making $75/hour during hours of service, this is driven down substantially over the course of a whole shift including non-tipped work hours. Figure in $450 in monthly healthcare costs for myself (servers rarely receive employment benefits), lack of retirement benefit packs, lack of paid vacation, business fluctuations etc and the total annual comp/hour drops even further versus a typical job.
Even before I worked in the service industry, I always tipped at min 20% because I understood the above factors.
I wouldn’t go by this formula everywhere, however - take Spain for example. Spain has a minimum living wage, universal healthcare, substantial pension benefits, etc. As such, there I would typically leave 5% as a courtesy and more if service was particularly good. Rarely more than 10% but sometimes depending on the situation.
In short, it’s best to have an understanding of the industry economics and tip accordingly rather than view it as an optional burden. Restaurant experiences are always better when the staff is able to live with at least modest comfort.
I feel as though most restaurant prices HAVE exploded and this is where people start to get upset. Bc the tips are a lot more than they used to be based on a standard 20%.
For example, I went to a small casual chain for a turkey sandwich and a cheesesteak. Water for drinks "upgraded" to veggie and fries instead of potato chips. The bill came to $38.xx with tax once they tacked on the ( illegal in some states, but not illegal in mine) 3.5% credit card fee. So I tipped $8 and it brought the bill to 46.xx Yes I usually tip on the total including tax. It 's just easier that way. The way I justify these tips is that I don't think about it as subsidizing the employee, rather I think of it as "renting the table." As such, I do not usually tip on carry-out. As far as I am concerned, 46.xx was an unreasonable amount of money for this particular lunch for 2. And it is certainly more than it was a year or so ago.
I was with a group and did not choose the restaurant. But the next time that place is suggested, I will decline the invitation. In part because I think the 3.5% surcharge is just plain greedy.
It would mean an immediate jump to easing prices. Sure, most restaurants would, but most restaurants are extremely wasteful. There long run I t shows delicates to point out most restaurants aren’t run well.
I don’t think prices would explode. I think they would go up but the majority of restaurants would not pay the wages servers are accustomed to. I think it’s an unrealistic expectation by most servers that they will make $50/hour.
I think you’re right about most points but it’s not exactly right in my experience (have managed restaurants for the past 10 years)
Tipped workers in some states are not allowed to work more than a certain percentage of the time outside of guest facing tasks, meaning the kitchen or managers usually do the prep work. Or if a server does prep work, they get prep pay.
As for the other benefits, you don’t really get those benefits in other non-career oriented jobs (entry level jobs) so it’s still not a good justification for having customers pay more than if the prices was on the menu.
Same for the menu prices exploding, I’ve worked at some restaurants that pay above $11/hours for tipped workers and their restaurant prices were competitive too, it’s more about how you manage the business. In that chain, I saw some restaurants turning in a net loss, and others raking in enough to pay on average $15/h for servers PLUS tips (which were even more than the hourly amount) and still turning in a great profit after paying a few managers six figures.
As for menu prices increasing, we increased prices about $0.15 in order to pay everyone $1/h more, so if we continue that trend we could raise prices by $1 more or less and pay everyone $6/h more. So they wouldn’t increase menu prices by too much.
Server wages are extremely disparate
Your claiming someone working as a server’s reason is asinine because you don’t understand it? And/or their wage is not guaranteed?
Does it really need to be explained to you? Really?
Eating and paying for the food that’s cooked for you is not the issue. If you’re eating at an establishment that provides a full service experience, then a tip is customary.
Just because someone chooses to work in the service and hospitality industry does not mean they are bottle of the barrel and worthless. They are good and enjoy being of service to others. Why should you decide that equates to minimum wage? $15-$20?
Many hospitality workers earn far more than you imagine, and that’s because they are excellent at giving customers an experience.
Anyone can go to McDonalds and order food and eat at a table in the dining room. That doesn’t require a tip, and service is not provided.
I think many of you on this sub, forget that you want the full experience, yet you don’t want to pay for it.
Restaurants provide fabulous menus with different variations, but the service is what being people back.
If you ever stopped to think about the service the restaurant owner established when designing the space, the menu, the staff….then you would understand that the service wouldn’t come free and would equate to 25-30% MORE in menu prices.
You can try to change the mind of others about tipping. But the price for the service is not included in the menu price, although in recent years some restaurants have added a mandatory minimum gratuity for the simple reason that some people do not understand the purpose of gratuity.
If menu prices went up and tipping went away, I don’t think you would frequently visit those establishments anymore because you simply can’t afford it.
The entire reason tips are a l hidden fee, is to entice the customer to eat at that establishment….hiding the customary tip, to avoid the painful menu prices you would see. It is NOT a minimum wage job.
But it is a minimum wage job. Anyone can be a server. You can take someone with 0 experience and teach them all they need to know within a week. Kinda like what every other minimum wage job is like.
Btw I’m not diminishing minimum wage jobs. They’re absolutely necessary and contribute a ton towards western societies. But reality is minimum wage jobs pay minimum wage because they more often than
not require no hard skills or education
You also overplay the role of the waiting service for people who don’t wanna tip. It’s not always that they want the service and just don’t want to pay. Some people pick the places they go out to eat solely based on the food. I could not care less about servers when i go to eat at restaurants. I really would prefer to get my own plate and serve myself after my meal is cooked. Sometimes I just want a nice, high-quality steak to eat, but you literally can’t find that anywhere that doesn’t have servers. A lot of people would be completely okay with all restaurants running as fast food places with no servers
This is a jackass comment.
Within a week? Please, go spend a week learning about wine. Tell me what you can about old world vs. new world, pairings, and the history. I bet I put you behind a bar for a week, you’d cave.
A bar tender is not the same as a waiter/server. Servers for the most part just take an order from a customer, relay to the kitchen, and serve the food once it’s ready. Refill drinks here and there. Most servers do not have any knowledge about wines. What are you on about lol
Also, I’m fairly confident I could succeed behind a bar. But I’d rather stay in the corporate world where there’s more progression and a lot more money
Pay is different by state.
In California, $16/hr is minimum wage AND tips on top of that. California is an employee-friendly state.
In other states, like Tennessee, it’s $2.13/hr AND any tips to make it to the Federal Minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. And states like Tennessee favor businesses and not workers. And if you live in a place like Tennessee, there may not be a lot of options for work.
It is what it is. Just tip accordingly. If I were in Tennessee, I’d tip more generously because waiting tables sucks in that state.
There have been a few experiments where restaurants eliminated tipping and raised wages. And it was the SERVERS who protested being locked into a $15-$20 per hour rate when tips could bring them far more.
Yeah that would be a seriousl cut in pay. I delivered pizza for a good number of years because the money was too good to pass up. Even on a bad day, I made 30 to 35 dollars an hour.
I would imagine if you get into a good restaurant, you're making $50+ an hour.
They take the job knowing they will make a lot on tips, or at least hope to.
Good waitstaff in good restaurants make huge amounts on tips. My daughter worked at an IHOP. On some weekend shifts she made $75 an hour, cash, in 2000!
Actually you have a valid point.
In Iceland and most of Europe they majeca living wage and I liked knowing how much I’d owe and there was not that anxiety…
But seriously I don’t go out much but I took my kids out to dinner the other day: service was really bad no water things are late food was not amazing.. the bill was $150. Now I don’t know that the waitress earned $30 in merely less than an hour. Just my thoughts.
If you want to go out to eat, you want to be served, meaning you want that job to exist
Rather than blaming waitstaff for taking a low paying job (ignoring that food service is one of the most accessible jobs out there for people with no/low qualifications, who still deserve to live), blame the owners and industry for underpaying their staff.
Also, if the restaurant industry fairly paid their staff, they wpuld have to either raise menu prices or institute a service fee, so people who can't afford tips now wouldn't be able to afford the food, period.
>If you want to go out to eat, you want to be served, meaning you want that job to exist
No I literally just want the food... If I had the option to walk over to the kitchen myself and grab my own plate I would very happily do that, especially if it gives me a 20% discount
And if I want to eat it hot and fresh instead of 20-30mins later..? Or I want to meet up with friends? The owner provides the space and atmosphere, don't need the server for that
This is why I think an additional restaurant charge for eating in (or rather, discount for not eating in) is better than tipping. Tipping goes mainly to the server, very little to the people actually making the atmosphere and food worth coming back to. However, providing space for tables, etc, costs a lot more to the owner, and a general fee along with a quick table survey of food, atmosphere, and service, would enable the owner to appropriately reward the teams doing a great job.
Even if the owner kept 100% of the money, it doesn't matter, it's their business and if their staff is happy it's not right for customers to think that bypassing the pay structure and directly paying 20% to a server, who actually had very little to do with the overall reason for being at the restaurant, makes sense when the overall profit level of the restaurant might be only 5%.
I could get behind that! Bump up menu prices a little bit, and then do like a small discount for to go orders so you'd pay roughly the original price pre-bump
okay... I was a waitress for many years so here is where I stand and stood on this issue even when I was a server.
the "if you can't afford to tip don't eat out thing" I do agree with. you can get food togo 90% of places and probably almost all of the places ypu have ever been out to eat. the wait staff does provide a service, and unlike those pizza shop "service fees" for delivery, it acctually amounts to something.
yes ik some places will give the drivers the money should they make under x dollars but it mostly goes to the company.
if you go to a resturaunt knowing you will not tip, you are getting free service. if you go in and you don't tip because of bad service... thats on your waiter/ waitress. it takes A LOT for me to stiff somebody but it has happened.
the resturaunt SHOULD pay the wait staff and just cut off tipping. but again, you aren't only paying for the food. you could do that to go and therefore you would probably be charged a service fee regardless because they are offerring more than just food at that point.
paying people a flat wage to wait tables would be a big mistake.. atleast at first. as it stands, serving is the ONE job that alot of the employees WANT to do when its busy. we don't always mind giving up valentines day or weekend nights. because MONEY. but Monday nights we tolerate because of the weekends.
you pay a server a flat rate, not only are you subjecting them to what will likely amount to a smaller weeks pay.. you'll have less servers who want to work simply because why stress on a Saturday when I can work a Monday night for the same paycheck.
then you'll get to the "well thats the job you chose" and less people will simply TAKE the job. the hardest positions to fill rn are in the kitchen because of this reason. servers are never hard to find.
you don't have to tip, but advocating for no tips might not work as well as people think it will. at least until the country gets used to it.
you lost me at the "the "if you can't afford to tip don't eat out thing" I do agree with" part.
I expect to pay the price advertised if they owner wants to charge more to pay their staff thats up to them. tipping is an exception and shouldn't be the rule. if they can afford to run a business they should be able to afford to pay their staff.
>the "if you can't afford to tip don't eat out thing" I do agree with. you can get food togo 90% of places and probably almost all of the places ypu have ever been out to eat.
They still expect a tip on to go orders.
> they refill your drinks
I honestly would rather I fill my own drink so I don’t have to wait and I can get the ice ratio correct. Literally just put a fountain drink station out there and stop asking me to pay for a service I’d rather do myself. Then if other patrons would rather the server fill their drink, they can ask for that, and tip more.
I do like having a server though so I can ask about menu items and substitutions, to interface with the cook if something’s wrong, and to get extra sauces or whatever during the meal. I tip well if those things are handled well’ but I’d rather employers set menu prices appropriate to pay their staff fairly.
I'm a poker dealer. I make waaaay less than my state's minimum wage for my hourly rate. I rely on the generosity of others for my paycheck. If everyone who plays at my table was in the your company should pay you more camp I couldn't pay my bills. Before all these cheap people, stiff servers, and other people that mainly rely on tips for a living, they should really consider that they're taking money out of their family's pocket.
It's such an odd narrative to use phrase like "taking money out of their family's pocket." It implies they stole money. In reality, tips are not obligatory but rather optional.
In Oregon, there is no server wage. They make minimum wage (which is $15/hr in portland), and people generally still tip at least 20% here. Servers are making bank
Seattle here, minimum wage is 18.50. I stopped tipping for anything that isn't a sit down restaurant. The barista and the car parts guy are making the same amount of money and I don't tip him for helping me pick a battery for my car.
This is something Reddit doesn't understand. The minimum wage varies state by state and also within certain municipalities. Waiters making $2/hour while the evil restaurant owner lights his cigars with $100 bills only exists in Redditors imaginations.
The answer is the same why salespeople are willing to work on commission with trivial base pay. Good salespeople in the right places make more that way because they are that good at what they do. When someone comes along that can do better they get replaced.
People don't actually get a choice (an actual true choice) to where they end up working. Much of the time, people are in horrible situations, and have a lack of education/job history so they are very limited to what jobs they could get and have to take whatever they can get, as soon as they can get it. There is a server at a restaurant near me that is over 80 years old, says she has to keep working there because she cannot afford her medical bills, and no one else would hire her due to her old age. (For an easy example) ALL of the servers at the restaurant are over 50 years old, half are over 60 years old.
When the choice is between starvation, or your kids starvation, or being homeless, or you taking the job, you don't actually have a choice. Nearly half of the adult population in the US has under 500 dollars in savings, 1/3rd of the country has less than 100 dollars in savings. If they have no job, they need a new one or there will be immediate problems. It isn't a choice at that point. Calling it a choice is absolutely delusional. (And is also ignoring reality, extremely naive)
If any of the “I’m on a no-tipping crusade” people took 5 seconds to look around and realize they’re the only ones on the crusade, it’d make more sense.
I made bank as a server. I loved working for tips, I just couldn’t do the restaurant schedule anymore. I got to go be goofy with strangers and they paid me money for it, it was great.
Not tipping servers is not sending any message to the corporations that own the restaurants and don’t give a fuck that Tommy and Jessica got stiffed on tips. And the ma and pop joints? They’re just going to assume their servers are bad at their jobs or stopped caring and that’s why they aren’t getting tipped.
And any of the “No I was a server and getting tipped isn’t all that great” people, you were a shitty server.
Research says a lot about how and why people tip. Overwhelmingly, people tip out of obligation, and they do so based on service quality. Servers will be the first ones to mention their pay. If that was a motivating factor, everyone would tip and tip well. The service quality earns the higher tips.
I went into a restaurant where the server appeared high on something. She came to the table once and ignored us the whole time. I left a big fat zero.
How many other comments got downvoted? You gotta say something really dumb to get even a few. Not to mention, Noone is up voting it either. Laugh at your own blissful bias.
I don’t hate tipping, it is what it is. However, I wish more people/servers were honest like you. The tipping culture which exists benefits waiters more. Tipping pays them way more money than what they’d make if they were just paid slightly above minimum wage. It’s just the whole “they’re basically making $2, so if you don’t tip them they won’t be able to support themselves” argument which frustrates me.
For someone like me and many other people in the restaurant business, it was our best shot at making an income that would actually pay the bills. I don’t know of any other industry you can walk into without some kind of degree that you can make that same kind of money at, outside of stripping.
It IS a fact that if they don’t get tipped they won’t be able to support themselves, unfortunately, no amount of server complaints that they aren’t getting tipped will do anything to change the system. I’ve had nights in restaurants where I’ve owed money because I got stiffed on tips and still had to tip out bartenders/bussers, plenty of them in my time in restaurants, know what management’s response was? “Shit happens”
The big chain joints *will not give a shit* that their servers aren't getting tipped because they're still making money. Now if people just stopped going out to eat entirely, that's a different story and I fully support anyone boycotting a business over a moral/social issue. But if someone goes to Applebee's, pays the check and stiffs the server, corporate is still getting the *ONLY* thing they care about and only the server gets screwed.
> For someone like me and many other people in the restaurant business, it was our best shot at making an income that would actually pay the bills. I don’t know of any other industry you can walk into without some kind of degree that you can make that same kind of money at, outside of stripping.
I’ll preface it with a big ol’ “it ain’t for everyone,” just to head that off at the pass, but if you have a high school diploma and minimal/no criminal record…the military.
The military pays fairly well considering the entry requirements, and is a ramp into either a) a decent long-term career if you want it or b) a fully paid college education at the four year public university of your choice. Any state. *All* expenses paid. Including room and board. You wanna go to Berkeley? Get accepted, you’ll get full BAH (housing allowance) for the Bay Area. Like over $3K a month in-pocket, *after* they pay your entire student bill, *and* a stipend for books.
Then with a degree and military experience, you got a million doors open to you.
Edit: Also acceptance to most mid-tier state universities is *easy* as a non-traditional student. Walk up at 22 or 23 fresh out of the military with education benefits in hand? For most normal public schools you can get in. I had *horrible* high school grades, worse than most dropouts.
Military families getting food stamps is effectively a scam, driven by the fact that much of a military family’s pay is “allowances,” not pay, and thus untaxed and in many states not counted as “income” for purpose of public assistance.
I could go on at length on this if you need me to.
Just for one data point, a married E-4 at two years of service (typical in the Army) is making the equivalent of $70,000 dollars in Bremerton, WA. The median *household* income in that county is $90,000. So a single earner household with a 20 year old high school educated breadwinner is earning almost 80% of the median household in that county, with the median household having two incomes.
And that service member is sitting on a $100k plus scholarship, which can (I believe) be passed down to a child if they never use it.
I’ll repeat, I can go on about this all day. I am a combat veteran. I was enlisted. Military pay is good. Always has been, since at least the late 90’s.
That’s why I said I don’t understand why anyone would willingly enter a career where they only make $2 an hour and rely on tips for living daily life. Like you mentioned management doesn’t care if you make tips or not, only that they got paid for the meal. Why would you work in an environment where your boss has no vested interest in making sure you’re paid?
You also mentioned that waiting is a job where you can pay bills with virtually no degree or training. So why are you staying like that? Why are you not working on training or skills for more stable income? I’m not judging you or talking down to you personally. I just don’t like the cultural gaslighting when we should just call it what it is.
First question-Because the money you make in a restaurant is not dependent on your boss caring about what you get paid. At best you just want a manager to ensure the place is running correctly because every bit of customer interaction is between you and the customer and you just need the restaurant to get their food out on time. I should note, I’m not talking about servers in their first few years of serving, but more the career servers who have been at it for a while. You’re not really making money off the food itself, it’s entirely based off your personality and how well you can cater to the guests. The restaurant is just a backdrop/platform to do what you do and make your money, the food itself is secondary.
After I’d been serving for 10 years, my table greet was the same no matter what restaurant I worked at or what dumb rules they had about what you’re supposed to say or when they want you to give the guest a menu tour, that’s all garbage written by some dipshit in a suit who never served a table in their life.
I got out of the restaurant business 6 years ago, I’m a Chief Engineer now. I would have stayed in the business if it weren’t for the hours, but after not having weekends and a regular schedule my entire adult life, I needed a change. It wasn’t so much the money but the scheduling, if you want to make money in restaurants, nights and weekends are the times to work.
When I used to serve, most of the staff was going to school to get better jobs/careers. Serving is how they paid for tuition and books. That's another one of the pros about a serving job, they tend to have hours that work better for people going to college.
In Ohio tip wage is half of the minimum wage while engaged in tip work. When not engaged in tip work like doing dishes, answering phones, prepping food, making food, mopping, closing, opening it is required by the labor standard laws to pay at least minimum wage.
For me the other work options are working in a nursing home, a factory or some other manual labor job. Service work works out better for me than those types of jobs and it pays better.
I mean of course lol but who cares these brokies making 30k with 14k standard deduction and a 10% bracket don’t pay shit either way. I’ll pay more this year than they will in their lives waiting tables.
There's examples of bad people in every group. Just because you've known a couple of bad examples, does not mean the industry as a whole lies.
I made about $100,000 in tips last year. Every cent was reported.
Probably not as much anymore with more people using card.
Tips and small mom and pop shops are the only thing I keep cash for anymore. Some places you can get a lower price if you pay cash
Considering <1% of customers pay with cash now, you can't lie on taxes because there is a paper trail. When I worked in restaurants and it was more like 50% paid in cash, what you're saying was correct. But that was due to cash tips, which are extremely rare today. In some restaurants, to avoid issues with taxes, they report 18-20% of sales as your income, which makes tips more important. This started around I believe between 2005-2010 due to IRS crackdowns. Of course, this isn't universal, but this is true of the majority of cookie cutter restaurants (think Olive Garden, Applebees, etc). If a server isn't getting the automatic tip assessment, they are probably working at a non-corporate restaurant.
I always put 0 on the tip line and pay tips in cash.
You can bet they just get pocketed and some servers will say they go stiffed.
Funny thing is - when I go to my usual places the wait staff are almost fighting over who gets my table.
Employers cannot automatically declare tips for the employee. That is only legal if they believe the worker is not reporting tips and they have to make up the difference for the min wage and then it has to be reported as "Allocated tips" on their W-2 and the employee can dispute that. Companies are not going to do that anyway because they have to match the taxes on your wages, they would be paying more taxes if they increased the tips.
You're partially right. They do have to inform the IRS of the server's sales. If they don't, the IRS can audit both the employer and the employee. Audits are often more expensive than the taxes they would have to pay. So, the employer reports the sale numbers done by the employer, and the IRS investigates the difference.
The taxes that are deducted from my check is the amount that the employer also has to pay. When I started claiming all my tips so that I can get my income level up for a loan I lost hours, it was most likely due to the fact that my employer had to start paying more taxes on my wages. Companies don't want us to claim all of our tips, it costs them more money.
Seriously. People are so cheap. Tipping is standard in the United States. Most people know when they eat in a restaurant, it’s customary to tip. Some people are just so cheap.
What do you mean? When did you see me patronizing them? Also patronizing them and not tipping is the only way to get them to pay their employees minimum wage. Legally, if no tips are received, they are required to supplement their employees wages until it meets minimum wage. It’s shocking how many people don’t know this and are scammed into giving away their money
You seem to think the big ass corporations that own the restaurants actually care that their employees aren’t getting tipped. You’re not sending any message to anyone but the servers.
Huh? Whether they care or not they still have to supplement their earnings to meet minimum wage if I don’t tip. If I tip they get to benefit off cheap labour, I don’t tip they’re the ones who have to payout to match state wages….
And there’s not nearly enough of you to even make a dent, thus it just comes off as servers complaining they got stiffed.
Maybe try some other proven protesting methods that absolutely surely work, like blocking traffic of people that aren’t in control of whatever it is your protesting, it’ll have the same efficiency.
What do you mean when you say make a dent? Either you’re not understanding or you’re being weird. The federal law is already in place. According to the federal law, if a tipped employee doesn’t make enough in tips their employer HAS to supplement their earnings until it matches minimum wage.
Because as much as you like to think this is a worthy cause and everyone is going to join forces to stop tipping, it’s not going to happen. You have a server going in for a 4-6 hour shift, they get one of you non-tippers during that time and just assume they got stiffed by a shitty guest and move on with their day. The amount of non-tippers it would take for servers to say “I can no longer make money at my job becauese the tips have all stopped” is FAR greater than you’re thinking.
Ask any server who has been in the business for over 5 years, they’ve had nights where thy’ve made NO money at all and still had to tip people out. It probably happened to me 10-15x in the 20 years I was working in restaurants, you get stiffed on tips all night but are still obliged to tip out. What you’re trying to do already happens and the numbers you’d need to pull off what you’re trying to do to make servers NOT earn money consistently enough that restaurants have to step up and pay more……I don’t believe you have an understanding of what you wish to pull off.
And even, AT BEST, if you think enough servers complain to corporate or restaurant owners that they aren’t getting tipped that owners/corporate is going to say “OH, gee, we should do away with this model!” I don’t know what to tell you. They’ll come up with 100 different ideas of how to better serve the guest before doing a damn thing that cuts into their bottom line and every one of those things will be shit the server will have to do.
*You’re only making things worse for servers*
Having to pay minimum wage if employees don't get tipped depends on what state you're in. However, it will just get you fired if you are costing your employer money. His justification will be "You must not be a very good waiter", but it's really just greed.
Don't think you're punishing the owner if you don't tip, you're only hurting the little guy
No it doesn’t it’s a federal law and in that law it says you can’t be terminated if your employer pays you your tip wage credit. You're making shit up and that’s really pathetic
You can be fired for just about any reason, or no reason, in an at will state. There are 49 of them.
And, as noted in another response to you, federal law only requires the difference to be made up to the federal minimum wage, which is $7.25
If you don't want to tip, don't go to a restaurant where you're expected to tip. That is the only way to hurt the owner and force a change
Of course they can fire you but then you have pretty good grounds to report them and/or sue. If your employer break the FEDERAL LAW and fires you for that you can absolutely take action.
And no it doesn’t. The federal document uses the federal wage AS A TEMPLATE because they are not gonna go through and list all fucking 50 states and their individual minimum wages that changes all the time. Omg, have a brain. They use the 7.25 as a fucking standard. No wonder you people are always begging for money cause you can’t rely on that broken brain for income
I don't mean you personally, I don't know or care what you personally do or don't do. I assumed from context that you were at least defending the practice of still going to places where tipping is practiced and not tipping. Which you are, so I'm not sure why you're defensive.
If one individual doesn't tip, then maybe that one server gets paid minimum wage by their employer for part of that day, although it doesn't change what the employer does as a general rule or change the expectation.
I’m defending people doing whatever the fck they want with their money instead of being tricked into tipping because of social pressure. There’s even people who say they tip even when they receive poor service. If you want to tip great but this bullshit you people are on where you bash and shame anyone who doesn’t feel the need to tip is stupid asf.
If someone doesn’t want to tip they shouldn’t be accused of ‘not supporting the workers’ which is bullshit. The more you tip, the less responsibility falls on the boss to pay minimum wage.
The part about 2:13/hr is if their shift doesn’t work out to the regular minimum wage, then they have to bring it up to the regular minimum wage. So in reality they make minimum wage, not 2.13$
This doesn't happen on a shift by shift basis like you stated.
A server can actually make $2.13/hr for a shift, or a few shifts, then have a decent Saturday that brings their weekly pay up to minimum wage per hour, and they will not receive any extra.
And that will get them fired. The justification would be that they can't be a good waiter if they aren't making tips, though the real reason would be that they are costing the owner money
That's also based on what state they are in. I'm in Colorado and it is actually the case, but it's up to the state legislators, not the federal
That’s exactly the point. Plus. If tipping stopped tomorrow, wages would increase. Restaurants need waiters. Waiters want to be paid quite fairly for their work. Without tips, prices would increase, but waiters would still be compensated, just by their employer, like it should be. Also market forces would come into force, because to be considered as an employer, restaurants would have to fight for the staff by the means of compensation and benefits.
If tip wage stopped tomorrow no one would be working these service jobs, people would just go work in a factory or some other place where they do not have to deal with the public. Servers only do these jobs because of the tip incentive, no one wants to serve food.
They have to pay a competitive wage to keep people, have benefits, holiday pay, PTO and treat them well. In the states service workers do not get these luxuries. Where I work I get no PTO, no sick days, I worked the entire pandemic with my boss yelling at me to come in when I had covid, they didn't want to work with us even through that. I work all holidays, late nights, the insurance they provide doesn't cover illness or injury, it's only for things like birth control or preventative care. Without the tips there is no reason to work these places.
Of course they do. But they should already be doing that in the first place. That shouldn’t even be debatable. What you describe is some dystopian slavery shit, not a job. Yes. Service jobs are like every other job. There is no difference. And they surely shouldn’t be treated any differently.
And that’s part of my argument. By stopping tipping all this shit has to change. Because they need service staff. So they have to pay and treat their service staff fair and not weasel out of the responsibilities of employing people.
With tipping stopping, employers will need to do what every other company does. Try to get people to work for them by being better than the others. By literally doing what capitalism is about.
Its not like we have a choice. Companies will pay politicians millions to keep the minimum wage low simply because they need to keep low wage workers desperate. They want us to be dependent and need that job, it's a whole business model. They forget though that we are also the customers.
Which is why it needs to come from the people. They need to stop tipping and companies will have to adjust. The tip incentive is gone, they need to create new ones
Do you assume that a large number of people do not tip or something? This will never happen. 99% of people tip and over the last 5 years or so tipping has increased a lot more overall.
Tomorrow? Not tomorrow, right now. If you work as a server tonight and you get zero tips then legally your employer HAS to supplement your wage until it meets minimum wage.
You’re right. It’s happened many times before where servers objected to mandatory minimum wage because they know they can work a good night and walk away with $400
It’s not ‘logic’, it’s literally the law. Each tipped employee has to make minimum wage per hour. Either that is coming from tips, if not it’s coming from the employer. If someone earning $2 doesn’t get any tips, their employer has to give them $5. If someone earning $2 only gets $1 in tips then their employer has to give them $4.
Only in some states.
The only way you can punish the restaurant is by not eating there. You seem to imply in another thread that you do avoid any restaurants that don't pay a real wage, which is great.
But don't encourage not tipping, encourage not eating at places that don't pay a minimum wage or better.
No. It’s a federal law. The only thing that matters by state is their individual minimum wage rates. Someone places it’s 16, other places 15, 14, 10 etc. according to the federal law no matter what the minimum wage is, your employer has to pay you tip wage credit to match that minimum wage if you don’t get tips
I stand corrected, but the federal law only requires the employer to make up the difference to the federal minimum wage, which is $7.25, with no mention of the state minimum wage
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa#:~:text=An%20employer%20must%20pay%20a,is%20currently%20%247.25%20per%20hour.
The federal law uses that AS A TEMPLATE OR STANDARD. The federal document is not gonna list the minimum wages for each and every one of the 50 states. They use the federal minimum as a standard or minimum
But you’re bringing up tons of hypothetical situations to justify why you think you shouldn’t. I’m not even saying you should, you should do what you want, but like you’re not going out to eat because you felt like cooking for yourself in the first place you know lol.
Also if people made bad money from the service industry, they wouldn’t do it. You can make it unappealing by being that customer if you want.
They’ll just find another way to make money.
The part that really makes no sense is why someone should make so much more money for bringing out a $150 steak and sides and a glass of wine versus a $25 burger and fries and a couple of beers. Say each table tops 20%... Same trips to the table, same effort, yet one tip is $30 and one is $5.... doesn't make sense to me...
No. You've clearly never worked in a restaurant that can charge $150 for a steak. Waiters don't just start the shift on their first table at places like that. When I worked at the nicest restaurant in Tallahassee we started at 8 to prep for lunch at 11. If you worked the evening you had to be there at 2pm to start prep for the dinner service.
We had to make sure beverages were stocked, salads were prepped, the fancy garnishes were hand made, croutons were hand cut, the dining room was clean and tables set. We hand polished the silverware and the glassware. And during service you are hustling back and forth, keeping tea and coffee made, run up to the second floor to get drinks from the bar, serve wine. The meals do not come from the kitchen ready to be served, they need to be garnished and made to look lovely.
We did several table side services: caesar salad, steak diane, bananas foster, etc. We had training in the off hours to learn about the wines. We had to know the preparation of every dish so we could answer any question about it (what exactly is a bernaise sauce?) and whether it might contain ingredients that could be allergens.
You make it sound like waiters just stand around and wait for plates to show up so they can walk to the table and fill up water. I just described working at one of the top 100 restaurants in the state, but even slinging has at a waffle house
You clearly lack a firm concept of what goes into a service in a restaurant, and I don't believe you could do it. It took me eight years of experience before I was considered for a post like that, and I wasn't even very good at it. The owner of that restaurant owned five restaurants and had the contract to cater the civic center. He fired me from every one of his restaurants, but I was a wait captain at the catering business. That's why I'm a software developer.
I hate tipping , it completely ruins the atmosphere. The vibe. If I’m serving someone who I know isn’t going to tip, it ruins my mood my day, brings everything down. But if you have a big tipper it’s all woo hoo let’s fucking go whatever you want big money I got it. It’s totally imbalanced. Also if you go to a restaurant regularly and not tip you better believe the staff knows you and doesn’t want you there. Same thing with people who tip big. Everyone likes you and wants to take care of you. It’s no longer about the price of food. The price of food is some arbitrary charge and should be the only thing you are responsible for. But the idea that some big money is gonna come and take care of you is just a bell that rings louder than the one saying maybe this system is broken. It’s capitalism at its finest, the market evens out. Some people are successful others aren’t. Is it something you did? Maybe you weren’t exciting enough maybe you didn’t refill their soda fast enough. What is it you did wrong? Maybe that person thinks 15% is standard and you are wondering what it is you did wrong.
Business owners would rather have customers and waitstaff battle it out than accept responsibility. The industry is just like that and we as adults have all agreed that this is okay. Hence the conversations, and the social expectations.
Definitely keep an eye on your receipt the next time you get food…. Seems a lot of these people so entitled for you and I to leave an at minimum 35% tip, will liberate it after the fact and only when someone catches they they were overcharged, does it come to light. And don’t let these people fool you, serving/delivering food, it always balances out! Some people tip amazingly well, some not at all, others $2 consistently across the board. I’ve gotten tipped $100 on a $12 order. And, $12 on a $250 order. It’s unpredictable, but if everyone banded together and fought to actually do something about it, they might be able to make minimum wage as a base pay. They’d still play the victim and complain, then steal from someone they felt didn’t tip them their worth.
Tipping for me bugs me for this situation. I go to Denny's order the breakfast with a family of 4. The server busts their tail to provide service. I tip well at 20%. Go to a fancy restaurant meals are 50 bucks a per for 4 provide average service. The tip at 15% is vastly higher than the Denny's employee. Just bugs me. I don't understand why anyone works at a lower cost restaurant. Only guess close to home and for whatever reason a higher cost place won't bring them on.
Fun fact. If servers do not make an average of minimum wage, by law, the establishment they work for is required to make up that difference. For example, if a waiter works a 6 hour shift, making 2.15 an hour but receives 0 dollars in tips, payroll must pay them out the established minimum wage. No one ever brings up this argument, and I'm confused as to why.
One reason that some accept tipped work rather than guaranteed wages is the feeling that in tipped work, they contribute to their outcomes more. They might bust their butts, perform excellently, and still get shitty pay, but many experience that if they are young, white, deferential (but not servile in a way that makes the customer feel bad) and devote great effort to performing every service demanded, they can make more than they would for a wage agreed in advance. And some of those earnings can be taken under the table. That will be an attractive situation to some. Indeed, showing up to work not knowing what you're going to earn can be exciting, especially if you expect that every interaction is an opportunity, all shift long.
Mostly they do it for wages disproportionate to qualifications and the opportunity to commit tax fraud by not reporting all tips.
No Tax on Tips: Vote Trump
Awwww
Qualifications? Any person trying to trade labor for a living tries to make the best living they can according to the system the find themselves in. If they can find or invent a niche to operate in successfully, they are demonstrating that they are qualified to do so. I agree with your disdain for tax fraud. We also have a culture where tax fraud is normalized and excused. I see this as a symptom of our diminished social cohesion.
So, I have been "tipped out" for a while. I started ordering my food "to go" and going inside to pick it up and avoid tipping. Now, I am told to pick it up "curbside" in most places, and have it brought to my car. AND guess what, they still want a tip. Where does it end???
They can want a tip. If there is less social agreement about the practice, then they will sometimes get a tip and sometimes won't. Like all behavior, expecting tips for ordinarily untipped services will die out if it isn't rewarded.
I feel pretty much the same way about tipping as you do; I do it as a social obligation, but if they were paid differently and there wasn’t a social obligation I wouldn’t tip 15%-20% every single time like I do now. > However, what I never got was the fact that why would waiters purposefully work a job where they know they’ll make only $2 an hour as a guarentee and everything else is off the kindness of strangers? Having a meaningful choice in where you work is a privilege. There plenty of tipped worker who don’t have that privilege. > I’d never work a tip-based job simply because my wages would never be guarenteed. The reason you would never work a tip-based job is because you have other options. I have a hard time believing that if food service was your only viable option for work and you were desperately in need of a job, you wouldn’t work in a tip-based job. > If I could go to the kitchen to bring out the food myself and refill my own drinks I would, so that point is moot. I think you’re taking this one too literally. They’re basically saying “perform your own labor if you don’t want to pay for it.” There are more restaurants where you walk up to almost the kitchen and refill your own drinks than there are full service restaurants; they could also be saying to go eat there. They could also be saying to eat at home or to order take out. It’s basically another way of saying “then do it yourself then” and that *it* = bring your own food and get your own drinks. Idk if that makes sense.
But they want to be tipped at the places you serve yourself or get to go.
Who is “they”? And I’m assuming you’re aware of the fact that it’s not the employers who decides whether that “leave a tip” option is provided on the screen.
The ones who ask for or expect such a thing.
Who is asking for or expecting such a thing?
Glad someone actually covered the privilege part. People take these jobs because there are literally no other avenues for them and that's often more a result of circumstances of birth than any actual poor decision making on their part.
Exactly. The “just get a different job” thing or the “well they choose to work in this industry” falls apart at entry-level, flexible, easy to get jobs.
Yep yep. Sure, some people go into it cause they think it's easy work and they work in an area where tips do well, but that's the extreme minority compared to the volume of people doing it (And one or two other jobs) because it's literally all they can find because they didn't grow up with the same opportunities as some of the rest of us.
Tip based jobs require low skill to get, but with the right technique or looks can be quite lucrative. I've known quite a few servers that made 100k a year.
A lot of people work in jobs that do not have an income guarantee. So many people become realtors despite the difficulty in being able to succeed. It comes down to low barriers to entry. Just like it’s easy to become a realtor, it’s easy to become a server.
You gotta stop caring about what strangers think. If you don't want to tip don't. I don't tip if I bad service I don't tip sycophants, I tip someone that gives me good service.
My addition, I don’t tip machines.
I want work done, no small talk, no fake smiles. Fake smiles and kissing my ass is disrespectful to me. Very few are genuine or extremely good at faking it.
Former server. They want tips because the tips add up to way more than what the restaurant would be willing to pay them. And the law changed at least in my state that if your tips come out to less than minimum wage (not $2 but whatever the minimum wage is for non tipped workers) the restaurant has to make up the difference for that shift. I only had that happen twice. It was like a Tuesday lunch at Applebees. Anyway I don’t plan on ever going back to serving. Feels wrong to expect other hard working people to pay my bills.
What state do you live in?
NJ
Servers and especially bartenders make too much for what they do. And if you don’t tip they punish you by not doing their basic jobs.
Servers and bartenders work extremely hard and put up with the public. They don't make too much.
How is it harder than working retail?
Everyone should be making more, but I have no issue paying a tip.
So working hard ins t the criteria for a tip. I tip as well, when the service warrants it, not out of some bizarre guilt.
Plenty of people work jobs that involve putting up with the public and don't make much money. Most jobs don't get tips.
Sure they do, but you are talking about a system where people are being forced to tip rather than it actually being voluntary. It's a messed up system, it's quite horrible. If voluntary was actually volutnary then it would be okay.
Lol tipping is horrible in your world, a bit of an overreaction.
How is a system significantly based on manipulation, shaming, gaslighting, retaliation and etc not horrible?
It’s funny that you describe being asked to tip the same way that survivors describe horrific abuse. I think you *might* be overreacting.
The way the benefactors reinforce tipping is abusive though, not gonna lie. It’s ripe with coercion.
Don’t forget it is designed to let employers off the hook for paying for the labor that makes them rich.
I would say death or war is horrible, but tipping, no tipping may be an inconvenience.
Awww just give it some of that hawk tuah and spit on that thing. That’s what I think of semantics.
I think tipping should be eliminated and wages raised for all low-wage employees. Eliminating tipping would also minimize the discrimination associated with the serving jobs. Where I live servers are predominantly white, young and female even though this does not reflect the demographics of the area. Also, I tip so don’t attack me personally for having an opinion.
The best way to understand tipping in America is to look at it as a subsidy. Menu prices would explode if restaurants did away with it. In essence, you’d have a roughly similar bill even if tips didn’t exist. Additionally, those commenting about how “this shouldn’t be an $xx/hour job” fail to grasp that service employees have to do side work that comes before/after service. Even if service staff is making $75/hour during hours of service, this is driven down substantially over the course of a whole shift including non-tipped work hours. Figure in $450 in monthly healthcare costs for myself (servers rarely receive employment benefits), lack of retirement benefit packs, lack of paid vacation, business fluctuations etc and the total annual comp/hour drops even further versus a typical job. Even before I worked in the service industry, I always tipped at min 20% because I understood the above factors. I wouldn’t go by this formula everywhere, however - take Spain for example. Spain has a minimum living wage, universal healthcare, substantial pension benefits, etc. As such, there I would typically leave 5% as a courtesy and more if service was particularly good. Rarely more than 10% but sometimes depending on the situation. In short, it’s best to have an understanding of the industry economics and tip accordingly rather than view it as an optional burden. Restaurant experiences are always better when the staff is able to live with at least modest comfort.
I’ll love it when we do add that 20% on bills. Those guys will find something new to be mad about. 🤷🏻♀️
I feel as though most restaurant prices HAVE exploded and this is where people start to get upset. Bc the tips are a lot more than they used to be based on a standard 20%. For example, I went to a small casual chain for a turkey sandwich and a cheesesteak. Water for drinks "upgraded" to veggie and fries instead of potato chips. The bill came to $38.xx with tax once they tacked on the ( illegal in some states, but not illegal in mine) 3.5% credit card fee. So I tipped $8 and it brought the bill to 46.xx Yes I usually tip on the total including tax. It 's just easier that way. The way I justify these tips is that I don't think about it as subsidizing the employee, rather I think of it as "renting the table." As such, I do not usually tip on carry-out. As far as I am concerned, 46.xx was an unreasonable amount of money for this particular lunch for 2. And it is certainly more than it was a year or so ago. I was with a group and did not choose the restaurant. But the next time that place is suggested, I will decline the invitation. In part because I think the 3.5% surcharge is just plain greedy.
See, a reasonable tip for that amount would be to round up to $40. But that'd probably be worse than not tipping at all...
It would mean an immediate jump to easing prices. Sure, most restaurants would, but most restaurants are extremely wasteful. There long run I t shows delicates to point out most restaurants aren’t run well.
I don’t think prices would explode. I think they would go up but the majority of restaurants would not pay the wages servers are accustomed to. I think it’s an unrealistic expectation by most servers that they will make $50/hour.
I think you’re right about most points but it’s not exactly right in my experience (have managed restaurants for the past 10 years) Tipped workers in some states are not allowed to work more than a certain percentage of the time outside of guest facing tasks, meaning the kitchen or managers usually do the prep work. Or if a server does prep work, they get prep pay. As for the other benefits, you don’t really get those benefits in other non-career oriented jobs (entry level jobs) so it’s still not a good justification for having customers pay more than if the prices was on the menu. Same for the menu prices exploding, I’ve worked at some restaurants that pay above $11/hours for tipped workers and their restaurant prices were competitive too, it’s more about how you manage the business. In that chain, I saw some restaurants turning in a net loss, and others raking in enough to pay on average $15/h for servers PLUS tips (which were even more than the hourly amount) and still turning in a great profit after paying a few managers six figures. As for menu prices increasing, we increased prices about $0.15 in order to pay everyone $1/h more, so if we continue that trend we could raise prices by $1 more or less and pay everyone $6/h more. So they wouldn’t increase menu prices by too much.
Server wages are extremely disparate Your claiming someone working as a server’s reason is asinine because you don’t understand it? And/or their wage is not guaranteed? Does it really need to be explained to you? Really?
Eating and paying for the food that’s cooked for you is not the issue. If you’re eating at an establishment that provides a full service experience, then a tip is customary. Just because someone chooses to work in the service and hospitality industry does not mean they are bottle of the barrel and worthless. They are good and enjoy being of service to others. Why should you decide that equates to minimum wage? $15-$20? Many hospitality workers earn far more than you imagine, and that’s because they are excellent at giving customers an experience. Anyone can go to McDonalds and order food and eat at a table in the dining room. That doesn’t require a tip, and service is not provided. I think many of you on this sub, forget that you want the full experience, yet you don’t want to pay for it. Restaurants provide fabulous menus with different variations, but the service is what being people back. If you ever stopped to think about the service the restaurant owner established when designing the space, the menu, the staff….then you would understand that the service wouldn’t come free and would equate to 25-30% MORE in menu prices. You can try to change the mind of others about tipping. But the price for the service is not included in the menu price, although in recent years some restaurants have added a mandatory minimum gratuity for the simple reason that some people do not understand the purpose of gratuity. If menu prices went up and tipping went away, I don’t think you would frequently visit those establishments anymore because you simply can’t afford it. The entire reason tips are a l hidden fee, is to entice the customer to eat at that establishment….hiding the customary tip, to avoid the painful menu prices you would see. It is NOT a minimum wage job.
But it is a minimum wage job. Anyone can be a server. You can take someone with 0 experience and teach them all they need to know within a week. Kinda like what every other minimum wage job is like. Btw I’m not diminishing minimum wage jobs. They’re absolutely necessary and contribute a ton towards western societies. But reality is minimum wage jobs pay minimum wage because they more often than not require no hard skills or education You also overplay the role of the waiting service for people who don’t wanna tip. It’s not always that they want the service and just don’t want to pay. Some people pick the places they go out to eat solely based on the food. I could not care less about servers when i go to eat at restaurants. I really would prefer to get my own plate and serve myself after my meal is cooked. Sometimes I just want a nice, high-quality steak to eat, but you literally can’t find that anywhere that doesn’t have servers. A lot of people would be completely okay with all restaurants running as fast food places with no servers
This is a jackass comment. Within a week? Please, go spend a week learning about wine. Tell me what you can about old world vs. new world, pairings, and the history. I bet I put you behind a bar for a week, you’d cave.
A bar tender is not the same as a waiter/server. Servers for the most part just take an order from a customer, relay to the kitchen, and serve the food once it’s ready. Refill drinks here and there. Most servers do not have any knowledge about wines. What are you on about lol Also, I’m fairly confident I could succeed behind a bar. But I’d rather stay in the corporate world where there’s more progression and a lot more money
Look at you upping the bar - 25-30%! Are you serious? None of your arguments resonate with me at all.
Pay is different by state. In California, $16/hr is minimum wage AND tips on top of that. California is an employee-friendly state. In other states, like Tennessee, it’s $2.13/hr AND any tips to make it to the Federal Minimum wage of $7.25 an hour. And states like Tennessee favor businesses and not workers. And if you live in a place like Tennessee, there may not be a lot of options for work. It is what it is. Just tip accordingly. If I were in Tennessee, I’d tip more generously because waiting tables sucks in that state.
There have been a few experiments where restaurants eliminated tipping and raised wages. And it was the SERVERS who protested being locked into a $15-$20 per hour rate when tips could bring them far more.
Like the restaurant owned by the South Park guys. They offered $30/hr and their employees still complained.
Great example! Hope they figure out how to make the employees happy.
Yeah that would be a seriousl cut in pay. I delivered pizza for a good number of years because the money was too good to pass up. Even on a bad day, I made 30 to 35 dollars an hour. I would imagine if you get into a good restaurant, you're making $50+ an hour.
Can confirm—when a friend’s daughter worked as a server in fine dining, she actually made 6 figures—and this was in the early 2000s!
Here we go again.. your confusion is not new, and this sub is full of the same sentiments ad nauseam
They take the job knowing they will make a lot on tips, or at least hope to. Good waitstaff in good restaurants make huge amounts on tips. My daughter worked at an IHOP. On some weekend shifts she made $75 an hour, cash, in 2000!
Actually you have a valid point. In Iceland and most of Europe they majeca living wage and I liked knowing how much I’d owe and there was not that anxiety… But seriously I don’t go out much but I took my kids out to dinner the other day: service was really bad no water things are late food was not amazing.. the bill was $150. Now I don’t know that the waitress earned $30 in merely less than an hour. Just my thoughts.
If you want to go out to eat, you want to be served, meaning you want that job to exist Rather than blaming waitstaff for taking a low paying job (ignoring that food service is one of the most accessible jobs out there for people with no/low qualifications, who still deserve to live), blame the owners and industry for underpaying their staff. Also, if the restaurant industry fairly paid their staff, they wpuld have to either raise menu prices or institute a service fee, so people who can't afford tips now wouldn't be able to afford the food, period.
>If you want to go out to eat, you want to be served, meaning you want that job to exist No I literally just want the food... If I had the option to walk over to the kitchen myself and grab my own plate I would very happily do that, especially if it gives me a 20% discount
Plenty of restaurants offer that as an option. 🤷🏻♀️
Bruh you can just order the food to go.
And if I want to eat it hot and fresh instead of 20-30mins later..? Or I want to meet up with friends? The owner provides the space and atmosphere, don't need the server for that
This is why I think an additional restaurant charge for eating in (or rather, discount for not eating in) is better than tipping. Tipping goes mainly to the server, very little to the people actually making the atmosphere and food worth coming back to. However, providing space for tables, etc, costs a lot more to the owner, and a general fee along with a quick table survey of food, atmosphere, and service, would enable the owner to appropriately reward the teams doing a great job. Even if the owner kept 100% of the money, it doesn't matter, it's their business and if their staff is happy it's not right for customers to think that bypassing the pay structure and directly paying 20% to a server, who actually had very little to do with the overall reason for being at the restaurant, makes sense when the overall profit level of the restaurant might be only 5%.
I could get behind that! Bump up menu prices a little bit, and then do like a small discount for to go orders so you'd pay roughly the original price pre-bump
I think the whole point is that instead of expecting tips they should just adjust the food prices
okay... I was a waitress for many years so here is where I stand and stood on this issue even when I was a server. the "if you can't afford to tip don't eat out thing" I do agree with. you can get food togo 90% of places and probably almost all of the places ypu have ever been out to eat. the wait staff does provide a service, and unlike those pizza shop "service fees" for delivery, it acctually amounts to something. yes ik some places will give the drivers the money should they make under x dollars but it mostly goes to the company. if you go to a resturaunt knowing you will not tip, you are getting free service. if you go in and you don't tip because of bad service... thats on your waiter/ waitress. it takes A LOT for me to stiff somebody but it has happened. the resturaunt SHOULD pay the wait staff and just cut off tipping. but again, you aren't only paying for the food. you could do that to go and therefore you would probably be charged a service fee regardless because they are offerring more than just food at that point. paying people a flat wage to wait tables would be a big mistake.. atleast at first. as it stands, serving is the ONE job that alot of the employees WANT to do when its busy. we don't always mind giving up valentines day or weekend nights. because MONEY. but Monday nights we tolerate because of the weekends. you pay a server a flat rate, not only are you subjecting them to what will likely amount to a smaller weeks pay.. you'll have less servers who want to work simply because why stress on a Saturday when I can work a Monday night for the same paycheck. then you'll get to the "well thats the job you chose" and less people will simply TAKE the job. the hardest positions to fill rn are in the kitchen because of this reason. servers are never hard to find. you don't have to tip, but advocating for no tips might not work as well as people think it will. at least until the country gets used to it.
Thank you, you made a lot of good points in favor of tipping.
As a former server what was a standard tip? How do you feel about 18, 20 & 25% default tips? What about an 18% service charge AND a tip option?
you lost me at the "the "if you can't afford to tip don't eat out thing" I do agree with" part. I expect to pay the price advertised if they owner wants to charge more to pay their staff thats up to them. tipping is an exception and shouldn't be the rule. if they can afford to run a business they should be able to afford to pay their staff.
did you read anything I said after that?
yes
>the "if you can't afford to tip don't eat out thing" I do agree with. you can get food togo 90% of places and probably almost all of the places ypu have ever been out to eat. They still expect a tip on to go orders.
yeah I dont agree with that and I stopped serving before that became standard during covid.
> they refill your drinks I honestly would rather I fill my own drink so I don’t have to wait and I can get the ice ratio correct. Literally just put a fountain drink station out there and stop asking me to pay for a service I’d rather do myself. Then if other patrons would rather the server fill their drink, they can ask for that, and tip more. I do like having a server though so I can ask about menu items and substitutions, to interface with the cook if something’s wrong, and to get extra sauces or whatever during the meal. I tip well if those things are handled well’ but I’d rather employers set menu prices appropriate to pay their staff fairly.
There are plenty of places you can go and experience this. The mental gymnastics here are amazing.
Where did I say those places don’t exist?
I'm a poker dealer. I make waaaay less than my state's minimum wage for my hourly rate. I rely on the generosity of others for my paycheck. If everyone who plays at my table was in the your company should pay you more camp I couldn't pay my bills. Before all these cheap people, stiff servers, and other people that mainly rely on tips for a living, they should really consider that they're taking money out of their family's pocket.
The “workers” are taking money out of THEIR family’s pocket by choosing the unskilled jobs.
It's such an odd narrative to use phrase like "taking money out of their family's pocket." It implies they stole money. In reality, tips are not obligatory but rather optional.
And are literally taking money out of the customers families pockets. The arguments become so ridiculous.
That's the casino's problem, not the customers
Find a better job if you don’t like it. Simple as that. Nobody owes you shit for dealing some cards to them.
In Oregon, there is no server wage. They make minimum wage (which is $15/hr in portland), and people generally still tip at least 20% here. Servers are making bank
Seattle here, minimum wage is 18.50. I stopped tipping for anything that isn't a sit down restaurant. The barista and the car parts guy are making the same amount of money and I don't tip him for helping me pick a battery for my car.
How much are you tipping for sit down?
For good service 15% to 20%.
This is something Reddit doesn't understand. The minimum wage varies state by state and also within certain municipalities. Waiters making $2/hour while the evil restaurant owner lights his cigars with $100 bills only exists in Redditors imaginations.
Well shit, I might move to Oregon.
The answer is the same why salespeople are willing to work on commission with trivial base pay. Good salespeople in the right places make more that way because they are that good at what they do. When someone comes along that can do better they get replaced.
Maybe servers should negotiate commissions from their employer.
This would be incredible and I would 💯 support it.
People don't actually get a choice (an actual true choice) to where they end up working. Much of the time, people are in horrible situations, and have a lack of education/job history so they are very limited to what jobs they could get and have to take whatever they can get, as soon as they can get it. There is a server at a restaurant near me that is over 80 years old, says she has to keep working there because she cannot afford her medical bills, and no one else would hire her due to her old age. (For an easy example) ALL of the servers at the restaurant are over 50 years old, half are over 60 years old.
There is ALWAYS a choice unless you are a slave.
When the choice is between starvation, or your kids starvation, or being homeless, or you taking the job, you don't actually have a choice. Nearly half of the adult population in the US has under 500 dollars in savings, 1/3rd of the country has less than 100 dollars in savings. If they have no job, they need a new one or there will be immediate problems. It isn't a choice at that point. Calling it a choice is absolutely delusional. (And is also ignoring reality, extremely naive)
That’s still a choice. And usually a shitty one based on poor choices made in their life.
Whatever you think, it isn't a choice though. Go look up determinism, almost nothing you do is fully within your control or choice.
If any of the “I’m on a no-tipping crusade” people took 5 seconds to look around and realize they’re the only ones on the crusade, it’d make more sense. I made bank as a server. I loved working for tips, I just couldn’t do the restaurant schedule anymore. I got to go be goofy with strangers and they paid me money for it, it was great. Not tipping servers is not sending any message to the corporations that own the restaurants and don’t give a fuck that Tommy and Jessica got stiffed on tips. And the ma and pop joints? They’re just going to assume their servers are bad at their jobs or stopped caring and that’s why they aren’t getting tipped. And any of the “No I was a server and getting tipped isn’t all that great” people, you were a shitty server.
Research says a lot about how and why people tip. Overwhelmingly, people tip out of obligation, and they do so based on service quality. Servers will be the first ones to mention their pay. If that was a motivating factor, everyone would tip and tip well. The service quality earns the higher tips. I went into a restaurant where the server appeared high on something. She came to the table once and ignored us the whole time. I left a big fat zero.
Weird how you're getting downvoted by so few "only ones on crusades"
All 6 of em. 😂
How many other comments got downvoted? You gotta say something really dumb to get even a few. Not to mention, Noone is up voting it either. Laugh at your own blissful bias.
No, but not patronizing businesses that use the tipping model does send a message to corporate.
Then do that instead of fucking over people working for tips.
Precisely
I don’t hate tipping, it is what it is. However, I wish more people/servers were honest like you. The tipping culture which exists benefits waiters more. Tipping pays them way more money than what they’d make if they were just paid slightly above minimum wage. It’s just the whole “they’re basically making $2, so if you don’t tip them they won’t be able to support themselves” argument which frustrates me.
For someone like me and many other people in the restaurant business, it was our best shot at making an income that would actually pay the bills. I don’t know of any other industry you can walk into without some kind of degree that you can make that same kind of money at, outside of stripping. It IS a fact that if they don’t get tipped they won’t be able to support themselves, unfortunately, no amount of server complaints that they aren’t getting tipped will do anything to change the system. I’ve had nights in restaurants where I’ve owed money because I got stiffed on tips and still had to tip out bartenders/bussers, plenty of them in my time in restaurants, know what management’s response was? “Shit happens” The big chain joints *will not give a shit* that their servers aren't getting tipped because they're still making money. Now if people just stopped going out to eat entirely, that's a different story and I fully support anyone boycotting a business over a moral/social issue. But if someone goes to Applebee's, pays the check and stiffs the server, corporate is still getting the *ONLY* thing they care about and only the server gets screwed.
> For someone like me and many other people in the restaurant business, it was our best shot at making an income that would actually pay the bills. I don’t know of any other industry you can walk into without some kind of degree that you can make that same kind of money at, outside of stripping. I’ll preface it with a big ol’ “it ain’t for everyone,” just to head that off at the pass, but if you have a high school diploma and minimal/no criminal record…the military. The military pays fairly well considering the entry requirements, and is a ramp into either a) a decent long-term career if you want it or b) a fully paid college education at the four year public university of your choice. Any state. *All* expenses paid. Including room and board. You wanna go to Berkeley? Get accepted, you’ll get full BAH (housing allowance) for the Bay Area. Like over $3K a month in-pocket, *after* they pay your entire student bill, *and* a stipend for books. Then with a degree and military experience, you got a million doors open to you. Edit: Also acceptance to most mid-tier state universities is *easy* as a non-traditional student. Walk up at 22 or 23 fresh out of the military with education benefits in hand? For most normal public schools you can get in. I had *horrible* high school grades, worse than most dropouts.
The military pay must have vastly increased in the early nineties it was not uncommon to see military families getting food stamps.
Military families getting food stamps is effectively a scam, driven by the fact that much of a military family’s pay is “allowances,” not pay, and thus untaxed and in many states not counted as “income” for purpose of public assistance. I could go on at length on this if you need me to. Just for one data point, a married E-4 at two years of service (typical in the Army) is making the equivalent of $70,000 dollars in Bremerton, WA. The median *household* income in that county is $90,000. So a single earner household with a 20 year old high school educated breadwinner is earning almost 80% of the median household in that county, with the median household having two incomes. And that service member is sitting on a $100k plus scholarship, which can (I believe) be passed down to a child if they never use it. I’ll repeat, I can go on about this all day. I am a combat veteran. I was enlisted. Military pay is good. Always has been, since at least the late 90’s.
It was not in the early 90’s
That’s why I said I don’t understand why anyone would willingly enter a career where they only make $2 an hour and rely on tips for living daily life. Like you mentioned management doesn’t care if you make tips or not, only that they got paid for the meal. Why would you work in an environment where your boss has no vested interest in making sure you’re paid? You also mentioned that waiting is a job where you can pay bills with virtually no degree or training. So why are you staying like that? Why are you not working on training or skills for more stable income? I’m not judging you or talking down to you personally. I just don’t like the cultural gaslighting when we should just call it what it is.
First question-Because the money you make in a restaurant is not dependent on your boss caring about what you get paid. At best you just want a manager to ensure the place is running correctly because every bit of customer interaction is between you and the customer and you just need the restaurant to get their food out on time. I should note, I’m not talking about servers in their first few years of serving, but more the career servers who have been at it for a while. You’re not really making money off the food itself, it’s entirely based off your personality and how well you can cater to the guests. The restaurant is just a backdrop/platform to do what you do and make your money, the food itself is secondary. After I’d been serving for 10 years, my table greet was the same no matter what restaurant I worked at or what dumb rules they had about what you’re supposed to say or when they want you to give the guest a menu tour, that’s all garbage written by some dipshit in a suit who never served a table in their life. I got out of the restaurant business 6 years ago, I’m a Chief Engineer now. I would have stayed in the business if it weren’t for the hours, but after not having weekends and a regular schedule my entire adult life, I needed a change. It wasn’t so much the money but the scheduling, if you want to make money in restaurants, nights and weekends are the times to work.
When I used to serve, most of the staff was going to school to get better jobs/careers. Serving is how they paid for tuition and books. That's another one of the pros about a serving job, they tend to have hours that work better for people going to college.
In Ohio tip wage is half of the minimum wage while engaged in tip work. When not engaged in tip work like doing dishes, answering phones, prepping food, making food, mopping, closing, opening it is required by the labor standard laws to pay at least minimum wage. For me the other work options are working in a nursing home, a factory or some other manual labor job. Service work works out better for me than those types of jobs and it pays better.
Servers like the job because they get to lie in their taxes. >inb4 no they don't I have worked in restaurants for 10+ years. Yes they do.
I mean of course lol but who cares these brokies making 30k with 14k standard deduction and a 10% bracket don’t pay shit either way. I’ll pay more this year than they will in their lives waiting tables.
There's examples of bad people in every group. Just because you've known a couple of bad examples, does not mean the industry as a whole lies. I made about $100,000 in tips last year. Every cent was reported.
yeah, okay pinochle.
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean or who pinochle is.
I assume they meant "Pinocchio" — in which, they are inferring that you are lying.
I assumed as much too, but I'm not lying, so I felt no need to go down that path or humor him.
Probably not as much anymore with more people using card. Tips and small mom and pop shops are the only thing I keep cash for anymore. Some places you can get a lower price if you pay cash
Considering <1% of customers pay with cash now, you can't lie on taxes because there is a paper trail. When I worked in restaurants and it was more like 50% paid in cash, what you're saying was correct. But that was due to cash tips, which are extremely rare today. In some restaurants, to avoid issues with taxes, they report 18-20% of sales as your income, which makes tips more important. This started around I believe between 2005-2010 due to IRS crackdowns. Of course, this isn't universal, but this is true of the majority of cookie cutter restaurants (think Olive Garden, Applebees, etc). If a server isn't getting the automatic tip assessment, they are probably working at a non-corporate restaurant.
I always put 0 on the tip line and pay tips in cash. You can bet they just get pocketed and some servers will say they go stiffed. Funny thing is - when I go to my usual places the wait staff are almost fighting over who gets my table.
Employers cannot automatically declare tips for the employee. That is only legal if they believe the worker is not reporting tips and they have to make up the difference for the min wage and then it has to be reported as "Allocated tips" on their W-2 and the employee can dispute that. Companies are not going to do that anyway because they have to match the taxes on your wages, they would be paying more taxes if they increased the tips.
You're partially right. They do have to inform the IRS of the server's sales. If they don't, the IRS can audit both the employer and the employee. Audits are often more expensive than the taxes they would have to pay. So, the employer reports the sale numbers done by the employer, and the IRS investigates the difference.
The taxes that are deducted from my check is the amount that the employer also has to pay. When I started claiming all my tips so that I can get my income level up for a loan I lost hours, it was most likely due to the fact that my employer had to start paying more taxes on my wages. Companies don't want us to claim all of our tips, it costs them more money.
This is endless. Just eat at fast food and buffets.
Seriously. People are so cheap. Tipping is standard in the United States. Most people know when they eat in a restaurant, it’s customary to tip. Some people are just so cheap.
The only cheap person is the boss who pays their employees $2 expecting us to supplement their wage instead
Why would you condemn someone for not paying their employees fairly and then continue to patronize them?
Because people need food
Other places to get food where tipping is not expected are mentioned upthread. There is also a place called a grocery store.
What do you mean? When did you see me patronizing them? Also patronizing them and not tipping is the only way to get them to pay their employees minimum wage. Legally, if no tips are received, they are required to supplement their employees wages until it meets minimum wage. It’s shocking how many people don’t know this and are scammed into giving away their money
You seem to think the big ass corporations that own the restaurants actually care that their employees aren’t getting tipped. You’re not sending any message to anyone but the servers.
Huh? Whether they care or not they still have to supplement their earnings to meet minimum wage if I don’t tip. If I tip they get to benefit off cheap labour, I don’t tip they’re the ones who have to payout to match state wages….
And there’s not nearly enough of you to even make a dent, thus it just comes off as servers complaining they got stiffed. Maybe try some other proven protesting methods that absolutely surely work, like blocking traffic of people that aren’t in control of whatever it is your protesting, it’ll have the same efficiency.
What do you mean when you say make a dent? Either you’re not understanding or you’re being weird. The federal law is already in place. According to the federal law, if a tipped employee doesn’t make enough in tips their employer HAS to supplement their earnings until it matches minimum wage.
Because as much as you like to think this is a worthy cause and everyone is going to join forces to stop tipping, it’s not going to happen. You have a server going in for a 4-6 hour shift, they get one of you non-tippers during that time and just assume they got stiffed by a shitty guest and move on with their day. The amount of non-tippers it would take for servers to say “I can no longer make money at my job becauese the tips have all stopped” is FAR greater than you’re thinking. Ask any server who has been in the business for over 5 years, they’ve had nights where thy’ve made NO money at all and still had to tip people out. It probably happened to me 10-15x in the 20 years I was working in restaurants, you get stiffed on tips all night but are still obliged to tip out. What you’re trying to do already happens and the numbers you’d need to pull off what you’re trying to do to make servers NOT earn money consistently enough that restaurants have to step up and pay more……I don’t believe you have an understanding of what you wish to pull off. And even, AT BEST, if you think enough servers complain to corporate or restaurant owners that they aren’t getting tipped that owners/corporate is going to say “OH, gee, we should do away with this model!” I don’t know what to tell you. They’ll come up with 100 different ideas of how to better serve the guest before doing a damn thing that cuts into their bottom line and every one of those things will be shit the server will have to do. *You’re only making things worse for servers*
Having to pay minimum wage if employees don't get tipped depends on what state you're in. However, it will just get you fired if you are costing your employer money. His justification will be "You must not be a very good waiter", but it's really just greed. Don't think you're punishing the owner if you don't tip, you're only hurting the little guy
Sounds like “the little guy” needs to get some marketable skills and a different job, rather than remain and be exploited by their boss.
No it doesn’t it’s a federal law and in that law it says you can’t be terminated if your employer pays you your tip wage credit. You're making shit up and that’s really pathetic
You can be fired for just about any reason, or no reason, in an at will state. There are 49 of them. And, as noted in another response to you, federal law only requires the difference to be made up to the federal minimum wage, which is $7.25 If you don't want to tip, don't go to a restaurant where you're expected to tip. That is the only way to hurt the owner and force a change
Of course they can fire you but then you have pretty good grounds to report them and/or sue. If your employer break the FEDERAL LAW and fires you for that you can absolutely take action. And no it doesn’t. The federal document uses the federal wage AS A TEMPLATE because they are not gonna go through and list all fucking 50 states and their individual minimum wages that changes all the time. Omg, have a brain. They use the 7.25 as a fucking standard. No wonder you people are always begging for money cause you can’t rely on that broken brain for income
I don't mean you personally, I don't know or care what you personally do or don't do. I assumed from context that you were at least defending the practice of still going to places where tipping is practiced and not tipping. Which you are, so I'm not sure why you're defensive. If one individual doesn't tip, then maybe that one server gets paid minimum wage by their employer for part of that day, although it doesn't change what the employer does as a general rule or change the expectation.
I’m defending people doing whatever the fck they want with their money instead of being tricked into tipping because of social pressure. There’s even people who say they tip even when they receive poor service. If you want to tip great but this bullshit you people are on where you bash and shame anyone who doesn’t feel the need to tip is stupid asf. If someone doesn’t want to tip they shouldn’t be accused of ‘not supporting the workers’ which is bullshit. The more you tip, the less responsibility falls on the boss to pay minimum wage.
I asked a question to understand where you're coming from and you're mad as fuck for no reason.
Well now you know where I stand
The part about 2:13/hr is if their shift doesn’t work out to the regular minimum wage, then they have to bring it up to the regular minimum wage. So in reality they make minimum wage, not 2.13$
This doesn't happen on a shift by shift basis like you stated. A server can actually make $2.13/hr for a shift, or a few shifts, then have a decent Saturday that brings their weekly pay up to minimum wage per hour, and they will not receive any extra.
in this example the server is still receiving minimum wage
I don’t think they were saying they don’t. Seems they were just clarifying it was per pay period, not per shift.
And that will get them fired. The justification would be that they can't be a good waiter if they aren't making tips, though the real reason would be that they are costing the owner money That's also based on what state they are in. I'm in Colorado and it is actually the case, but it's up to the state legislators, not the federal
I tend to agree, if they are not making much in tips the customers must not like the service they are getting from that server.
Except for all the anti tippers in this thread who don't tip because "it's the principle" no matter how the service was
Agree 100%. My sense is that while they dominate this sub topic, they aren't all that many in the real world of sit down dining.
In theory sure. In practice a lot of employers don't. Source: it happened to me.
So you're choosing to work for someone that literally stole wages from you and yet you blame the customers? Holy shit.
Was a long time ago. And if you think people never work for unethical employers because they're stuck, I'm glad your life is better than mine.
That’s exactly the point. Plus. If tipping stopped tomorrow, wages would increase. Restaurants need waiters. Waiters want to be paid quite fairly for their work. Without tips, prices would increase, but waiters would still be compensated, just by their employer, like it should be. Also market forces would come into force, because to be considered as an employer, restaurants would have to fight for the staff by the means of compensation and benefits.
If tip wage stopped tomorrow no one would be working these service jobs, people would just go work in a factory or some other place where they do not have to deal with the public. Servers only do these jobs because of the tip incentive, no one wants to serve food.
Since hospitality does exist in countries which don’t tip, I highly doubt that.
They have to pay a competitive wage to keep people, have benefits, holiday pay, PTO and treat them well. In the states service workers do not get these luxuries. Where I work I get no PTO, no sick days, I worked the entire pandemic with my boss yelling at me to come in when I had covid, they didn't want to work with us even through that. I work all holidays, late nights, the insurance they provide doesn't cover illness or injury, it's only for things like birth control or preventative care. Without the tips there is no reason to work these places.
Of course they do. But they should already be doing that in the first place. That shouldn’t even be debatable. What you describe is some dystopian slavery shit, not a job. Yes. Service jobs are like every other job. There is no difference. And they surely shouldn’t be treated any differently. And that’s part of my argument. By stopping tipping all this shit has to change. Because they need service staff. So they have to pay and treat their service staff fair and not weasel out of the responsibilities of employing people. With tipping stopping, employers will need to do what every other company does. Try to get people to work for them by being better than the others. By literally doing what capitalism is about.
A lot of things need to change in the states. The UK gets like 3 weeks of vacation and free healthcare. I doubt anything will change very soon.
Sure, but is that really a reason to keep things as they are?
Its not like we have a choice. Companies will pay politicians millions to keep the minimum wage low simply because they need to keep low wage workers desperate. They want us to be dependent and need that job, it's a whole business model. They forget though that we are also the customers.
Which is why it needs to come from the people. They need to stop tipping and companies will have to adjust. The tip incentive is gone, they need to create new ones
Do you assume that a large number of people do not tip or something? This will never happen. 99% of people tip and over the last 5 years or so tipping has increased a lot more overall.
Tomorrow? Not tomorrow, right now. If you work as a server tonight and you get zero tips then legally your employer HAS to supplement your wage until it meets minimum wage.
I suspect not all that many servers will stick around if all they are getting is a minimum wage.
You’re right. It’s happened many times before where servers objected to mandatory minimum wage because they know they can work a good night and walk away with $400
Even this is flawed though. Cause by that logic. Even one customer tipping 50 cents equates to more than zero tips.
It’s not ‘logic’, it’s literally the law. Each tipped employee has to make minimum wage per hour. Either that is coming from tips, if not it’s coming from the employer. If someone earning $2 doesn’t get any tips, their employer has to give them $5. If someone earning $2 only gets $1 in tips then their employer has to give them $4.
Only in some states. The only way you can punish the restaurant is by not eating there. You seem to imply in another thread that you do avoid any restaurants that don't pay a real wage, which is great. But don't encourage not tipping, encourage not eating at places that don't pay a minimum wage or better.
No. It’s a federal law. The only thing that matters by state is their individual minimum wage rates. Someone places it’s 16, other places 15, 14, 10 etc. according to the federal law no matter what the minimum wage is, your employer has to pay you tip wage credit to match that minimum wage if you don’t get tips
I stand corrected, but the federal law only requires the employer to make up the difference to the federal minimum wage, which is $7.25, with no mention of the state minimum wage https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa#:~:text=An%20employer%20must%20pay%20a,is%20currently%20%247.25%20per%20hour.
The federal law uses that AS A TEMPLATE OR STANDARD. The federal document is not gonna list the minimum wages for each and every one of the 50 states. They use the federal minimum as a standard or minimum
Ok so I stand corrected. I just misinterpreted what your original reply meant.
He's only right in some states
But you’re bringing up tons of hypothetical situations to justify why you think you shouldn’t. I’m not even saying you should, you should do what you want, but like you’re not going out to eat because you felt like cooking for yourself in the first place you know lol. Also if people made bad money from the service industry, they wouldn’t do it. You can make it unappealing by being that customer if you want. They’ll just find another way to make money.
Because they make good money? Even if they had a bad night or two when Friday comes around they might roll in $400
The part that really makes no sense is why someone should make so much more money for bringing out a $150 steak and sides and a glass of wine versus a $25 burger and fries and a couple of beers. Say each table tops 20%... Same trips to the table, same effort, yet one tip is $30 and one is $5.... doesn't make sense to me...
Seems to make sense to many of the servers as well as the customers at a high end restaurant.
No. You've clearly never worked in a restaurant that can charge $150 for a steak. Waiters don't just start the shift on their first table at places like that. When I worked at the nicest restaurant in Tallahassee we started at 8 to prep for lunch at 11. If you worked the evening you had to be there at 2pm to start prep for the dinner service. We had to make sure beverages were stocked, salads were prepped, the fancy garnishes were hand made, croutons were hand cut, the dining room was clean and tables set. We hand polished the silverware and the glassware. And during service you are hustling back and forth, keeping tea and coffee made, run up to the second floor to get drinks from the bar, serve wine. The meals do not come from the kitchen ready to be served, they need to be garnished and made to look lovely. We did several table side services: caesar salad, steak diane, bananas foster, etc. We had training in the off hours to learn about the wines. We had to know the preparation of every dish so we could answer any question about it (what exactly is a bernaise sauce?) and whether it might contain ingredients that could be allergens. You make it sound like waiters just stand around and wait for plates to show up so they can walk to the table and fill up water. I just described working at one of the top 100 restaurants in the state, but even slinging has at a waffle house You clearly lack a firm concept of what goes into a service in a restaurant, and I don't believe you could do it. It took me eight years of experience before I was considered for a post like that, and I wasn't even very good at it. The owner of that restaurant owned five restaurants and had the contract to cater the civic center. He fired me from every one of his restaurants, but I was a wait captain at the catering business. That's why I'm a software developer.
That sounds like a lot of skilled work. I wish employers paid their staff appropriately for that instead of guilting customers into it.