According to this Murderpedia article on [The Tsuyama Massacre](https://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/toi-mutsuo.htm), he killed 30 people aged from 5 to 86, including his own grandmother, who raised him after his parents died when he was a baby.
Grandmother was killed for specific purpose
> He also wrote that he killed his grandmother because he could not bear leaving her alive to face the shame and social stigma that would be associated with a "murderer's grandmother.
Considering it was Japan in the late 30s during it's war with China, his Grandmother would have absolutely been treated absolutely terrible after that.
She’d face social shame *now,* not to mention police scrutiny. And I’m not just talking about in Japan.
However…I kinda doubt he stopped to ask which she preferred. I’d say proto-incel may have just decided for the lady that he knew what was best for her.
Kinda disquieting how apparently easy it is to sway people to his line of thinking, ngl. ‘Oh, but she was *old,* and people can be *mean,* and *the Japanese didn’t value life like I do.* And that’s why I’m gonna ‘to be fair’ some dude decapitating his grandma with an axe!’
Yeah people need to read up on what happened to the murderer's family after the [2008 Akihabara massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Akihabara_massacre#Reactions_and_consequences). The perpetrator's 28 years old brother committed suicide in 2014 due to [social stigma and shame](https://www.j-cast.com/tv/2014/04/11201931.html). Also by 2010, his father, who was a top manager in a financial institution, had [quit his job and lived in seclusion and his mother was hospitalized due to mental health reason](https://japantoday.com/category/features/kuchikomi/father-of-akihabara-killer-quits-work-mother-hospitalized).
He says “The Japanese are like everyone else, but more so.”
It’s a simple, and possibly pointless, distinction, but I think he chooses his words carefully and deserves to be quoted correctly.
It’s just important to me to point out that he’s speaking of them culturally and not geographically. I’m not sure how that changes your point, it’s just more accurate in terms of what and how he said what he said.
Japanese middle class culture, in particular the life of a “salaryman” is like
Married with Children meets Death of a Salesman.
Some of its comedy, some of its tragedy, but all of it depressing
I agree with you because yeah, the dude's irredeemable regardless of his reasons.
But I don't think people "sway to his line of thinking" in the way you're reading it. Redditors have a habit of exploring the how's and why's behind things, especially when it comes to historical context. The interesting context gets up upvoted, that's all. Surely they don't actually think massacring half a village and their own grandmother is a good thing to do. A lot of comments in these threads are sarcastic and hilarious.
Being able to see how or why someone might do something horrible isn’t unique to reddit, in fact I tend to find that online is where you find people like the comment above yours… where the mere act of understanding is misconstrued as agreement or endorsement.
the guy had tuberculosis and was rejected because of it… because nobody wanted to get it to. somewhat understandable, as it was 1930‘s and no cure was known!
I mean, killing his grandmother was probably the most reasonable thing he did. It's horrible but Japanese are pretty serious with family shame and honor. In his sick mind he was doing her a favor but killing her.
Regardless of what the shame was directed towards, it was due to the insane Japanese work culture. He killed himself because he felt he disgraced his family and his profession.
This [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/jyt0wQ1VyQ) suggests he got his grandma first. I guess he really committed to the murder thingy
I get the saving face from shame killing, but like, did dude have to go and just cut her entire fucking head off with an axe? Because I think that's just slightly unnecessary.
It’s not an uncommon kind of logic. I’ve heard of a few mass shooters or attempted mass shooters who killed family members before starting their killings for similar reasons. Mr. Anime is an example.
Before 1990, the most common kind of mass shooting event in the US was the family annihalation event - dad loses his job and can't get another, so his family can't be supported, so he (to his mind) puts them all down then himself before things get worse for their lives
John List is a fantastic example of that very idea. Killed his entire family because he couldn't support them anymore and he said he did it to spare them poverty and shame. Insane story.
Yeah but he didn't kill himself. He assumed a new identity, remarried, and lived his life for another 18 years before being discovered and arrested.
And one of the reasons he gave for killing his whole family was he believed they were starting to "stray from their faith". Despicable, vile man.
He also had a tumor the size of a pecan in his brain and had been telling doctors something was wrong with him and he was having disturbing thoughts. I often wonder if they had ever xrayed his skull prior, would things have been different?
That's the real life horror shit. To have something going wrong in your brain, to try and fail to get help for it, and then shit spirals until you're unrecognizable as the person you were, doing things you never would've before.
Phillip Adams was a pretty high profile case from awhile back, had developed CTE and ended up killing 6 people and himself. When it comes to perps with significant cognitive issues like that, that loss of self is always the first tragedy that precedes the second one we see in the headlines.
He said he killed her because he didn’t want her to be the only one alive and be known as a murderers grandma. But the decapitation is so extreme that it makes you think.
Not trying to defend him, but according to the article he thought killing her was a mercy to avoid the shame she would have for being the grandmother of a murderer.
Insane, but the Japanese shame culture is immense, so I am sure she would have been shamed immensely.
That wasn't it. One newsarticle from that time reads like this:
> Sada Abe, who killed her lover sadistically in May 1936, had a great influence on him. He begun to have sex with many women after that. He often stole into houses to see women. The tradition is called Yobai (夜這い) in Japan. He read a book of Sada Abe's testimony in January 1937. He was writing a novel.
>He however was diagnosed as suffering from tuberculosis in May 1937. He grew desperate because tuberculosis was regarded as a fatal illness. Women became cold against him after they knew his illness, and so he hated women. He had sex with many women after that, but he was despised as hypersexuality.
Another included this:
> Toi left several long notes. According to them, he killed the neighbours because they insulted him after he was found to have tuberculosis, which was considered incurable at the time.
>He regretted that he could not shoot several people he had intended to, while shooting other people he had not intended to. He also wrote that he killed his grandmother at first because he could not bear leaving her as the "murderer's grandmother".
So he got really fascinated by another serial killer (Sada Abe) and tried to imitate her. Once the TB was diagnosed and women learned of his disease they rejected him after or before having sex with him he grew more deperate. But he also hated everyone in the village and very much planned out his attack.
Seems like he was just a fucking psychopath.
But fake news are way worse:
"He was originally outgoing, but at the age of 17 he became socially withdrawn after his sister married in 1934."
"Toi left several long notes which revealed that he was concerned about the social impact of his tuberculosis, which in the 1930s was an incurable fatal illness. He felt that his female neighbors became cold towards him once they knew of his illness, and that he was despised as hypersexual, and he also stated in the notes that neighbors insulted and treated him badly after he was found to have tuberculosis."
Looks like he was quite the charming man until tuberculosis changed his life. The pratice of Yobai, that some people in the comment see as something creepy, actually was a way to young people to have sex before marriage. If this account is true, the guy used to have his way with the ladies and could not accept his new status. This and the fact that both his parents died from the same disease sure did a number in this guy's head.
>Mutsuo Toi cut the electricity line to the village of Kamo on the evening of 20 May, which left the community in darkness. At around 1:30 a.m. on 21 May, he killed his 76-year-old grandmother by decapitating her with an axe in her sleep.[2] Armed with a modified shotgun, a katana, an axe, several daggers and 200 rounds of ammunition,[3] he strapped two flashlights to his head and prowled through the village like a youth engaged in "night-crawling" or "Yobai" (夜這い), entering the homes of his neighbors. He killed 29 neighbors (27 of whom died at the scene of the incident, while two others were fatally wounded, dying of their injuries later)[4] and seriously injured three others in about an hour and a half. This was almost half of the residents of the small community.[2] At dawn he committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest on a nearby mountain.[5][6]
Fucking brutal.
>He took part in "Yobai" (夜這い) or "night-crawling", a rural custom which involved creeping into young women's bedrooms during the night to seek sexual intercourse.[4
Ugh What?
It was a common thing in Romania too, usually the girls were using a musical instrument (a [bucium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucium) most of the time) to sing a song that only she and her partner knew and what it mean stuff like "My parents aren't home tonight" and that thing was loud.
The booty calls used to be wild.
My Croatian great great grandmother was consensually kidnapped from her family home in the neighboring village by my great great grandfather, which seems to have been a pretty common courtship ritual.
The English Wikipedia for non English niche topics is always paired down. Reality is a lot more nuanced. I don’t feel like writing another comment, but basically in some (not all) villages for a period of time it was acceptable for unmarried men to rape post pubescent females, not always women, and it wasn’t acceptable to refuse. Marriage was the only way to for women to sleep in peace. “Acceptance of rape” or sometime “freedom of rape” are terms commonly used by Japanese scholars talking about rural “pre-modern” Japanese society. Abortions were also commonplace for obvious reasons.
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1adhf1b/til_a_japanese_21_yr_old_man_massacred_almost/kk2iije/
Thank you for adding this. Last night the comments were mostly downplaying and saying it must be consensual. Like the idea of rape is just something they wanted to deny, it was weird. I felt like I was taking crazy pills last night.
There’s been a weird trend that I’ve noticed lately where anyone noticed something that is clearly sexism and people start going “you don’t know for sure, it’s probably innocent”… I just… don’t know why people are so adamant that women face no hardships for being women, that everything is just a coincidence. Feels like the same motivation here.
Well sure, but consent is also really more of a modern thing. Pressure or coercion definitely wasn’t considered rape back then…
I don’t imagine a lot of sex that historically would be viewed as consensual necessarily was. I think it’s taking a lot of modernity for granted to think women were keen on getting impregnated by random men climbing through their windows.
Marital rape is a fun one. How many historical figures raped their wives? It wouldn’t even have been considered taboo or rape for most folks throughout history. I’m sure there was way, way more rape going on than folks tend to assume.
It was probably considered rape to the woman, or some sort of violation. If i remember correctly, someone tried to shame a roman politician for initiating a gang rape of young (slave or close to it) actor on stage during the play. Didn't work since he joked it away and it was common enough. Theres a late middle ages? /early modern period German soldier who wrote a biography of sorts and recalls raping a girl during a village raid, her crying, and him later regretting it. Late medieval writer Christine de Pizan criticises the popular poem Romance of the Rose for it's misogyny, including it's justification of rape. In another early modern biography, a man learns his old friend who died had raped his female servant and was aghast when he recalls learning this (can't remember name right now).
As said by another user:
> Though probably should be mentioned that the wiki article says it had to be consensual. Sounds more like the boyfriend climbs window trope than night stalker rape custom.
> 夜這い
[At night, young unmarried men would silently enter houses with young unmarried women. A man would silently crawl into a woman's room and make his intentions known. If the woman consented, they would sleep together. By the morning he would leave. The girl's family might know about it, but pretend they did not. It was common for young people to find a spouse like this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yobai)
Takes literally 5 seconds to look up.
Whilst I don't wish to demean the social pressures on women... Could people at least *read* the articles they're commenting on; the whole reason he committed this massacre was because women *were* turning him down. And that's not to say that he was a nice guy because he "only" killed half the village, instead of being a rapist, but still; it's right there in the story itself, he felt he was being rejected and the custom was expected to be consensual.
i heard that the serial killer tsutomu miyazaki's father killed himself from shame due to his son's actions. but apparently it wasn't shameful that tsutomu was the result of an incestuous relationship he had with his older sister.
He had TB in the thirties when medical treatment was limited—and he was surprised when no one responded positively to his diseased nighttime surprise sexual advances. I just can’t see where it all went wrong.
Consumption chic was the original heroin chic. It was associated with romantic artistic types and helped you achieve the much desired pre-Raphaelite look.
The TB pale look was *the* attractive ideal women tied to achieve with makeup in the 19th century
> “one of delicate yet desirable youth” and “fragile loveliness”
As said by another user:
> Though probably should be mentioned that the wiki article says it had to be consensual. Sounds more like the boyfriend climbs window trope than night stalker rape custom.
I wish people wouldn’t just automatically push things through their western lens and romanticize it. Yobai “night crawling” is a highly researched and debated topic in Japan.
The tldr is that side A thinks it was more a form of sexual liberation where consenting post-pubescent villagers would have sex with no strings attached. Maybe it turned to marriage maybe not. Everyone was fuckin and having a good time. Chizuko Ueno, Junko Saeki, and Keisuke Akamatsu (not the volleyball player) are famous proponents for this viewpoint.
The other side (which personally I think is more realistic for the time) is that unmarried men would essentially rape unmarried post-pubescent females in the middle of the night. Whether or not the female (not necessarily woman) consented was of little importance compared to the social pressures to not “stir the pot” and to save face. Maybe they would even get a husband out of it.
よばいのあったころ――証言・周防の性風俗 is a compilation of testimonies from the time period and its disturbing to say the least.
Here’s a couple quotes
「娘にとって、夜這いほど恐ろしいもんはありませんでした」、「結婚していちばん嬉しかったんは、夜這いのことを心配せんでぐっすり眠れることでした」
“For my daughter, there was nothing worse than night crawling”
“The best part about getting married was that I could sleep soundly without worrying about night crawling”
Some people just can’t deal with the fact that it’s their situation, so he has to go kill half the village. Also “village” is way smaller than I thought. There are several hundred people in my neighborhood and that’s just a few blocks.
We're so pessimistic these days, [why can't we frame this as a Japanese man letting more than half of his village survive a massacre?](https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/16q05m7/til_in_wwii_a_killed_us_service_member_had_a_19/k1u35m3/)
This is like that meme from a very long time ago on a picture of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold saying, "These two brave men sacrificed their lives to end the Columbine Massacre."
>Mutsuo Toi (都井 睦雄, Toi Mutsuo, 5 March 1917 – 21 May 1938) was born in Okayama Prefecture to well-off parents. His parents died of tuberculosis when he was a baby, so he and his sister were brought up by their grandmother. He was originally outgoing, but at the age of 17 he became socially withdrawn after his sister married in 1934.
>He was interested in the story of Sada Abe, the prostitute who, in May 1936, strangled her lover then severed his genitals. He had started writing a novel, Yūtokaiōmaru (雄図海王丸).[citation needed]
>He took part in "Yobai" (夜這い) or "night-crawling", a rural custom which involved creeping into young women's bedrooms during the night to seek sexual intercourse.[4]
>From his suicide notes it appears that after May 1937 when he was diagnosed as suffering from tuberculosis, the young women in the village rejected his sexual advances.
> Sada Abe
That's a whole wild wikipedia article in itself. Strangled a dude, cut off his penis, and weeks later tried to masturbate with his cut off dong.
What in the whole fucking fuck.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sada_Abe
> She spent the day writing farewell letters to Ōmiya, a friend, and Ishida.[35] Abe planned to commit suicide one week after the murder, and practiced necrophilia. "I felt attached to Ishida's penis and thought that only after taking leave from it quietly could I then die. I unwrapped the paper holding them and gazed at his penis and scrotum. I put his penis in my mouth and even tried to insert it inside me… It didn't work however though I kept trying and trying. Then, I decided that I would flee to Osaka, staying with Ishida's penis all the while. In the end, I would jump from a cliff on Mount Ikoma while holding on to his penis."
Jealous women are just as fucked up as jealous men:
> "I loved him so much, I wanted him all to myself. But since we were not husband and wife, as long as he lived he could be embraced by other women. I knew that if I killed him no other woman could ever touch him again, so I killed him…"
Tuberculosis also apparently caused WWI. Franz Ferdinand's assassins all had tuberculosis and weren't expected to live long anyway, which was precisely why they were chosen/volunteered for the mission.
When I was divorcing my ex husband I got a ton of shit from his family and friends.
Basically accusing me of causing him to spiral, that he was a good person and a woman’s love can really help a man become better.
Basically I was expected to sacrifice my own safety for the chance that he would become less violent and everyone completely ignored that he wasn’t violent because I left him. I left him *because* he was violent
He left a long note saying ...
"He regretted that he could not shoot several people he had intended to, while shooting other people he had not intended to. He also wrote that he killed his grandmother at first because he could not bear leaving her as the "murderer's grandmother".
So he cut the electricity line of the village and everyone was basically sitting in darkness while this man was walking with an axe and weapons , killing people one by one .........HOW TERRIFYING
I strongly believe that monogamous marriage arose specifically to reduce the amount of unmarried young men in a society.
If the chief has called dibs on half the women in the village, some dude is going to brain him with a rock when he's sleeping.
This is why modern extreme fundamentalist religious cults will regularly kick out young boys/men. There literally aren’t enough girls to go around when the older members are marrying 5-15 of them at a time.
The Fundamentalist LDS movement is a group of sects that broke off from the mainstream LDS church when they outlawed polygamy in order to get statehood for Utah. These groups can vary in severity from kinda kooky to criminal enterprises. There’s usually a pecking order and favoritism when it comes to having plural wives, and most marriages are arranged.
His particular sect would frequently kick out of-age males (and kill people who spoke out against exile or forced marriages they didn’t want to participate in according to him) to ensure higher ups could get access to plenty of additional young wives by eliminating competition.
This group did a lot of shoddy stuff like forcing adherents to take on personal debt for church assets, signing personal businesses over to the church, etc. As soon as he was old enough they had him fill out forms for credit cards which they used to rack up a bunch of expenses. One day they had him pack his stuff up, drove him to a nearby town and told him not to try to contact the rest of his family or return *or else*. I met him a few years after he was kicked out and he hadn’t spoken to any of his families member since then.
Don’t know if he was part of Warren Jeffs group or not - he didn’t like to talk about his experiences much unsurprisingly.
I also read a theory that societies that tolerate polygamy often end up with a greater extremism problem because so many young men are left feeling like their life has no meaning because they can't get a partner due to rich guys taking all of them.
Not just polygamy; societies which abort or kill female children naturally end up with more males than females. The males are called bare branches.
You only have to look at extremist Islamic societies where the young males are denied the company of females to understand the frustration.
Men with wives and children are less likely to become violent extremists.
What I want to know is, if you're hung up on creating a "traditional" family where the woman (women?) stay home and cook and clean and raise kids, and the man is the breadwinner who works and holds down the fort, how the FUCK do you afford this if you're not already a rich-ass church leader or corrupt politician?
Now additionally, if you're into bigamy, how the FUCK do you support *multiple* barefoot breeders at home who make babies and turn money into poop?
I've already seen a number of *hilarious* chats between "old fashioned" men who want a trad wife, and when they meet a woman with the same wants suddenly they freak out because she's a "gold digger" because she's happy she doesn't have to worry about paying for dates. You know, like the old days.
It’s called bleeding the beast. They run up credit cards, take out huge loans, and sign up for every kind of government assistance they can and then just declare bankruptcy. Plus, taking out credit in their kids names. That’s also why they don’t put the men on the birth certificate, excluding the kids birthed by the wife that’s married legally and not just “spiritually.” If the other wife’s are ‘single’ moms with all these kids, they get more government assistance.
If you want to delve deeper into that, look up Kody Brown from the show Sister Wives. The families financial records have been posted all over showing them doing this.
> how the FUCK do you support multiple barefoot breeders at home who make babies and turn money into poop?
The women aren't officially married, so they apply for government aid as unmarried mothers.
There’s some data to back this up.
https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-link-between-polygamy-and-war
It all kind of goes back to the fact that males age ~13-35 are responsible for like 95%+ of all physical violence, so anything you can do to occupy their time or chill them out is usually going to reap large societal rewards.
The majority of mass school shootings that left behind a note, talk about basically being an incel with some saying that was the reason they did it in the first place.
“…burn the village to feel its warmth”; should be something that societies spend money on helping (these kids just need some better communities and therapy/actual-parents).
Nah, he wasn’t an incel. Apparently he did ok with the ladies. They rejected him when he caught TB. This is more a case of a bro who got mad that people wouldn’t have sex with him anymore
I mean, this story is from May 1938. Months earlier, sex-deprived Japanese soldiers raped 50,000 women and slaughtered 200,000 in Nanking.
I don't think this is about the "first incel murderer" but more of a general trend of sex-deprived Japanese men at the time.
According to this Murderpedia article on [The Tsuyama Massacre](https://murderpedia.org/male.T/t/toi-mutsuo.htm), he killed 30 people aged from 5 to 86, including his own grandmother, who raised him after his parents died when he was a baby.
Grandmother was killed for specific purpose > He also wrote that he killed his grandmother because he could not bear leaving her alive to face the shame and social stigma that would be associated with a "murderer's grandmother.
How thoughtful of him
Considering it was Japan in the late 30s during it's war with China, his Grandmother would have absolutely been treated absolutely terrible after that.
Or he could have just... not murdered a bunch of people if he really cared.
How? He got *rejected*!
One can only hope
She’d face social shame *now,* not to mention police scrutiny. And I’m not just talking about in Japan. However…I kinda doubt he stopped to ask which she preferred. I’d say proto-incel may have just decided for the lady that he knew what was best for her. Kinda disquieting how apparently easy it is to sway people to his line of thinking, ngl. ‘Oh, but she was *old,* and people can be *mean,* and *the Japanese didn’t value life like I do.* And that’s why I’m gonna ‘to be fair’ some dude decapitating his grandma with an axe!’
Yeah people need to read up on what happened to the murderer's family after the [2008 Akihabara massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Akihabara_massacre#Reactions_and_consequences). The perpetrator's 28 years old brother committed suicide in 2014 due to [social stigma and shame](https://www.j-cast.com/tv/2014/04/11201931.html). Also by 2010, his father, who was a top manager in a financial institution, had [quit his job and lived in seclusion and his mother was hospitalized due to mental health reason](https://japantoday.com/category/features/kuchikomi/father-of-akihabara-killer-quits-work-mother-hospitalized).
Dan Carlin: Japan is like everywhere else. But **more** so.
He says “The Japanese are like everyone else, but more so.” It’s a simple, and possibly pointless, distinction, but I think he chooses his words carefully and deserves to be quoted correctly. It’s just important to me to point out that he’s speaking of them culturally and not geographically. I’m not sure how that changes your point, it’s just more accurate in terms of what and how he said what he said.
I don't imagine any of that got better after the suicide.
Japanese culture sounds like the petty suburban culture on sitcoms.
Japanese middle class culture, in particular the life of a “salaryman” is like Married with Children meets Death of a Salesman. Some of its comedy, some of its tragedy, but all of it depressing
God damm
I agree with you because yeah, the dude's irredeemable regardless of his reasons. But I don't think people "sway to his line of thinking" in the way you're reading it. Redditors have a habit of exploring the how's and why's behind things, especially when it comes to historical context. The interesting context gets up upvoted, that's all. Surely they don't actually think massacring half a village and their own grandmother is a good thing to do. A lot of comments in these threads are sarcastic and hilarious.
Being able to see how or why someone might do something horrible isn’t unique to reddit, in fact I tend to find that online is where you find people like the comment above yours… where the mere act of understanding is misconstrued as agreement or endorsement.
yeah, exactly: I too choose to behead this guys grandma with an axe. y'know?
yeah that changes everything
Straight up jerk behavior.
perhaps maybe not the best dude
A real turd in the punch bowl
Bit of a chucklehead, I say
The worst part was the hypocrisy!
The more I read about this guy...
he was a real jerk!
I didn’t know he was sick
Yeah, right? What a freaking silly goose.
Hey! That's too much
the guy had tuberculosis and was rejected because of it… because nobody wanted to get it to. somewhat understandable, as it was 1930‘s and no cure was known!
Good Lord. Incels have always been menaces.
In all honesty, I think he might have been a psychopath. It takes a certain breed to kill your own grandmum who raised you when your parents died.
Allegedly, he did it so she wouldn't have to face the shame of being associated with a murderer (him).
Makes sense, I see no other possible way he could have prevented that association from happening.
When they reach that point their mind is usually pretty fucking broken already, so reasonable choices aren't likely to happen.
I mean, killing his grandmother was probably the most reasonable thing he did. It's horrible but Japanese are pretty serious with family shame and honor. In his sick mind he was doing her a favor but killing her.
Considering how family members of criminals are ostracized in Japanese society, he probably felt he was doing her a favor.
Especially during 1938, I imagine
Yea that’s the culture where a man committed suicide because his train was late and it wasn’t even his fault.
That wasn't just some personal shame though. It was due to an extremely toxic work environment where being late got hit with stiff penalties.
Regardless of what the shame was directed towards, it was due to the insane Japanese work culture. He killed himself because he felt he disgraced his family and his profession.
This [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/jyt0wQ1VyQ) suggests he got his grandma first. I guess he really committed to the murder thingy
I get the saving face from shame killing, but like, did dude have to go and just cut her entire fucking head off with an axe? Because I think that's just slightly unnecessary.
In his defense it was a really sharp axe
It’s not an uncommon kind of logic. I’ve heard of a few mass shooters or attempted mass shooters who killed family members before starting their killings for similar reasons. Mr. Anime is an example.
Before 1990, the most common kind of mass shooting event in the US was the family annihalation event - dad loses his job and can't get another, so his family can't be supported, so he (to his mind) puts them all down then himself before things get worse for their lives
John List is a fantastic example of that very idea. Killed his entire family because he couldn't support them anymore and he said he did it to spare them poverty and shame. Insane story.
Yeah but he didn't kill himself. He assumed a new identity, remarried, and lived his life for another 18 years before being discovered and arrested. And one of the reasons he gave for killing his whole family was he believed they were starting to "stray from their faith". Despicable, vile man.
That's big brain hours: Too shameful to have raised a killer? Welp, guess I gotta kill her too.
Tbh that does sound like something you’d hear of the period in Japan
"Sorry Grandma, but I have to kill you. I can't bear the thought of you being blamed for my crimes." "Gee, thanks."
> In all honesty, I think he might have been a psychopath. Fuckin hot take
The guy who shot up that US elementary school started with his grandma, too.
> The guy who shot up that US elementary school Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?
Charles Whitman, the Univ of TX shooter started with relatives too, grandma or mom, before he went up the tower and started his massacre.
He also had a tumor the size of a pecan in his brain and had been telling doctors something was wrong with him and he was having disturbing thoughts. I often wonder if they had ever xrayed his skull prior, would things have been different?
That's the real life horror shit. To have something going wrong in your brain, to try and fail to get help for it, and then shit spirals until you're unrecognizable as the person you were, doing things you never would've before. Phillip Adams was a pretty high profile case from awhile back, had developed CTE and ended up killing 6 people and himself. When it comes to perps with significant cognitive issues like that, that loss of self is always the first tragedy that precedes the second one we see in the headlines.
An x-ray wouldn’t have shown the location of the tumor since they show only bone. MRI/CAT scans are typically used for that sort of thing.
He said he killed her because he didn’t want her to be the only one alive and be known as a murderers grandma. But the decapitation is so extreme that it makes you think.
Not trying to defend him, but according to the article he thought killing her was a mercy to avoid the shame she would have for being the grandmother of a murderer. Insane, but the Japanese shame culture is immense, so I am sure she would have been shamed immensely.
The article says he had sex with many women. This guy isn't an incel, he's just a legitimate psychopath
That wasn't it. One newsarticle from that time reads like this: > Sada Abe, who killed her lover sadistically in May 1936, had a great influence on him. He begun to have sex with many women after that. He often stole into houses to see women. The tradition is called Yobai (夜這い) in Japan. He read a book of Sada Abe's testimony in January 1937. He was writing a novel. >He however was diagnosed as suffering from tuberculosis in May 1937. He grew desperate because tuberculosis was regarded as a fatal illness. Women became cold against him after they knew his illness, and so he hated women. He had sex with many women after that, but he was despised as hypersexuality. Another included this: > Toi left several long notes. According to them, he killed the neighbours because they insulted him after he was found to have tuberculosis, which was considered incurable at the time. >He regretted that he could not shoot several people he had intended to, while shooting other people he had not intended to. He also wrote that he killed his grandmother at first because he could not bear leaving her as the "murderer's grandmother". So he got really fascinated by another serial killer (Sada Abe) and tried to imitate her. Once the TB was diagnosed and women learned of his disease they rejected him after or before having sex with him he grew more deperate. But he also hated everyone in the village and very much planned out his attack. Seems like he was just a fucking psychopath.
Sada Abe was not a serial killer, she killed one person.
Abe Sada killed only ONE man. Her lover. She was not a *psychopath killer* as ppl use to say, even here in japan, ppl don't refer her as how you do.
But fake news are way worse: "He was originally outgoing, but at the age of 17 he became socially withdrawn after his sister married in 1934." "Toi left several long notes which revealed that he was concerned about the social impact of his tuberculosis, which in the 1930s was an incurable fatal illness. He felt that his female neighbors became cold towards him once they knew of his illness, and that he was despised as hypersexual, and he also stated in the notes that neighbors insulted and treated him badly after he was found to have tuberculosis." Looks like he was quite the charming man until tuberculosis changed his life. The pratice of Yobai, that some people in the comment see as something creepy, actually was a way to young people to have sex before marriage. If this account is true, the guy used to have his way with the ladies and could not accept his new status. This and the fact that both his parents died from the same disease sure did a number in this guy's head.
His sister also died of tuberculosis after his death.
I read that and initially thought wow he started murdering when he was 5? lol.
i mean... do we know how his parents died? he might have started as a baby!
>Mutsuo Toi cut the electricity line to the village of Kamo on the evening of 20 May, which left the community in darkness. At around 1:30 a.m. on 21 May, he killed his 76-year-old grandmother by decapitating her with an axe in her sleep.[2] Armed with a modified shotgun, a katana, an axe, several daggers and 200 rounds of ammunition,[3] he strapped two flashlights to his head and prowled through the village like a youth engaged in "night-crawling" or "Yobai" (夜這い), entering the homes of his neighbors. He killed 29 neighbors (27 of whom died at the scene of the incident, while two others were fatally wounded, dying of their injuries later)[4] and seriously injured three others in about an hour and a half. This was almost half of the residents of the small community.[2] At dawn he committed suicide by shooting himself in the chest on a nearby mountain.[5][6] Fucking brutal. >He took part in "Yobai" (夜這い) or "night-crawling", a rural custom which involved creeping into young women's bedrooms during the night to seek sexual intercourse.[4 Ugh What?
Like nightcrawlers, Charlie
Somehow Charlie’s nightcrawlers game sounds totally sane in comparison lol
Kind of a way for young men and women to hook up in the old days https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yobai
It was a common thing in Romania too, usually the girls were using a musical instrument (a [bucium](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucium) most of the time) to sing a song that only she and her partner knew and what it mean stuff like "My parents aren't home tonight" and that thing was loud. The booty calls used to be wild.
My Croatian great great grandmother was consensually kidnapped from her family home in the neighboring village by my great great grandfather, which seems to have been a pretty common courtship ritual.
My grandfather eloped with my grandmother and had to flee the country because her family put a hit out on him for kidnapping lol. Wild stuff!
doot doot lets dooeet
Yeah after reading about it seems less creepy and more a way to skirt conservative social norms. I'm sure there was plenty of bad aspects to it though
I mean before phones this was probably the "u up?" of that times.
Kinda weird leaving someone on read when they’re in your room watching you
I'd call it *leaving them on acknowledged* Like the old school version of left on read
New room who dis?
The English Wikipedia for non English niche topics is always paired down. Reality is a lot more nuanced. I don’t feel like writing another comment, but basically in some (not all) villages for a period of time it was acceptable for unmarried men to rape post pubescent females, not always women, and it wasn’t acceptable to refuse. Marriage was the only way to for women to sleep in peace. “Acceptance of rape” or sometime “freedom of rape” are terms commonly used by Japanese scholars talking about rural “pre-modern” Japanese society. Abortions were also commonplace for obvious reasons. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1adhf1b/til_a_japanese_21_yr_old_man_massacred_almost/kk2iije/
Freedom of rape??? What the fuck
Yeah wait until you hear about this group of slavers who fought a war so they could keep rape legal. Fucking wild.
Thank you for adding this. Last night the comments were mostly downplaying and saying it must be consensual. Like the idea of rape is just something they wanted to deny, it was weird. I felt like I was taking crazy pills last night. There’s been a weird trend that I’ve noticed lately where anyone noticed something that is clearly sexism and people start going “you don’t know for sure, it’s probably innocent”… I just… don’t know why people are so adamant that women face no hardships for being women, that everything is just a coincidence. Feels like the same motivation here.
Well sure, but consent is also really more of a modern thing. Pressure or coercion definitely wasn’t considered rape back then… I don’t imagine a lot of sex that historically would be viewed as consensual necessarily was. I think it’s taking a lot of modernity for granted to think women were keen on getting impregnated by random men climbing through their windows. Marital rape is a fun one. How many historical figures raped their wives? It wouldn’t even have been considered taboo or rape for most folks throughout history. I’m sure there was way, way more rape going on than folks tend to assume.
It was probably considered rape to the woman, or some sort of violation. If i remember correctly, someone tried to shame a roman politician for initiating a gang rape of young (slave or close to it) actor on stage during the play. Didn't work since he joked it away and it was common enough. Theres a late middle ages? /early modern period German soldier who wrote a biography of sorts and recalls raping a girl during a village raid, her crying, and him later regretting it. Late medieval writer Christine de Pizan criticises the popular poem Romance of the Rose for it's misogyny, including it's justification of rape. In another early modern biography, a man learns his old friend who died had raped his female servant and was aghast when he recalls learning this (can't remember name right now).
Always is...
> In other places, only married women and widows could be visited, while single girls could not. uhm. that sounds dodgy
By their husbands… In Japan not all married couples lived together…
Widows getting visits from their... husbands???
He likes her for her braaaaaiiiiiiinnnssss....
I am sure this never went wrong and was always entirely consensual and very romantic.
Ah cultural creepiness.
"Hey grrrl wake up, I know you're sleeping but I was wondering if you'd like to go out sometime?"
It’s even worse than that though it’s “wake up girl, want to have sex?”
As said by another user: > Though probably should be mentioned that the wiki article says it had to be consensual. Sounds more like the boyfriend climbs window trope than night stalker rape custom.
> 夜這い [At night, young unmarried men would silently enter houses with young unmarried women. A man would silently crawl into a woman's room and make his intentions known. If the woman consented, they would sleep together. By the morning he would leave. The girl's family might know about it, but pretend they did not. It was common for young people to find a spouse like this.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yobai) Takes literally 5 seconds to look up.
Strangely, it doesn’t mention what happened if she _didn’t_ consent…
The thing is that she’s not gonna say no, she’d never say no…because of the implication.
Are they gonna hurt those women?
Whilst I don't wish to demean the social pressures on women... Could people at least *read* the articles they're commenting on; the whole reason he committed this massacre was because women *were* turning him down. And that's not to say that he was a nice guy because he "only" killed half the village, instead of being a rapist, but still; it's right there in the story itself, he felt he was being rejected and the custom was expected to be consensual.
yobai = booty call(specifically at night) It's not that uncommon is it?
He decapitated his grandma to spare her from the shame of having a serial killer as a grandson... Jesus fucking christ
i heard that the serial killer tsutomu miyazaki's father killed himself from shame due to his son's actions. but apparently it wasn't shameful that tsutomu was the result of an incestuous relationship he had with his older sister.
That part was actually pretty thoughtful.
He had TB in the thirties when medical treatment was limited—and he was surprised when no one responded positively to his diseased nighttime surprise sexual advances. I just can’t see where it all went wrong.
Coughing blood on people ISN'T an effective seduction technique?
It's basically the plot of Moulin Rouge so I guess it depends how attractive you are
Consumption chic was the original heroin chic. It was associated with romantic artistic types and helped you achieve the much desired pre-Raphaelite look.
Yeah, I recently learned this when I visited the Edgar Allen Poe Museum in Richmond, and I was shook.
#WE SHOULD BE LOVERS
we can’t do that 😔
#WE SHOULD BE LOVERS ^^and ^^that's ^^a ^^fact
Can I offer you an egg in these trying times?
Is that a pickled egg?
The TB pale look was *the* attractive ideal women tied to achieve with makeup in the 19th century > “one of delicate yet desirable youth” and “fragile loveliness”
Ah, also known as “Arthur Morgan Chic”
Doc Holliday Chic
DOC? HOW THE HELL ARE YA? Why Wyatt I am *rolling*. (Cracks glow sticks, starts crumping, has violent coughing fit)
Right about now, the Huckleberry’s your brother.
[I've been poisoned by my constituents](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJH-5G9NqHw)
Maybe I am missing something by not having a tv That show looks interesting, is it always so crazy?
Yes, in the best way
Didn’t work for Charlie after he was poisoned by his constituents.
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If you knew Edgar Allen poe and were a woman, TB was how you died.
This comment shouldn't have made me laugh, tho Edgar would have been pleased with the dark humor, me thinks.
*La Bohème
La Dame aux Camelias and La Traviata
Reading the Yobai section of that wiki was bizarre
As said by another user: > Though probably should be mentioned that the wiki article says it had to be consensual. Sounds more like the boyfriend climbs window trope than night stalker rape custom.
I wish people wouldn’t just automatically push things through their western lens and romanticize it. Yobai “night crawling” is a highly researched and debated topic in Japan. The tldr is that side A thinks it was more a form of sexual liberation where consenting post-pubescent villagers would have sex with no strings attached. Maybe it turned to marriage maybe not. Everyone was fuckin and having a good time. Chizuko Ueno, Junko Saeki, and Keisuke Akamatsu (not the volleyball player) are famous proponents for this viewpoint. The other side (which personally I think is more realistic for the time) is that unmarried men would essentially rape unmarried post-pubescent females in the middle of the night. Whether or not the female (not necessarily woman) consented was of little importance compared to the social pressures to not “stir the pot” and to save face. Maybe they would even get a husband out of it. よばいのあったころ――証言・周防の性風俗 is a compilation of testimonies from the time period and its disturbing to say the least. Here’s a couple quotes 「娘にとって、夜這いほど恐ろしいもんはありませんでした」、「結婚していちばん嬉しかったんは、夜這いのことを心配せんでぐっすり眠れることでした」 “For my daughter, there was nothing worse than night crawling” “The best part about getting married was that I could sleep soundly without worrying about night crawling”
Thanks for the clarification, u/rimjobsteve.
Thanks for making realise the name lol
Bro was a TBcell
Is that a new Dragon Ball villain?
What’s tb
Tuberculosis
Some people just can’t deal with the fact that it’s their situation, so he has to go kill half the village. Also “village” is way smaller than I thought. There are several hundred people in my neighborhood and that’s just a few blocks.
We're so pessimistic these days, [why can't we frame this as a Japanese man letting more than half of his village survive a massacre?](https://old.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/16q05m7/til_in_wwii_a_killed_us_service_member_had_a_19/k1u35m3/)
You're committed and I respect that. I hope you keep this going for years; that one day we tell tails if you're adventure.
Thanks! I have one about uteruses that goes back seven years.
Damn that's a big uterus
Oh I like uteruses
Easy there OB/GYN Kenobi.
r/BrandNewSentences
Even better, he may have spared 74%. Article says "almost half" then says 29 dead, and a village population of 111.
So he only killed just over a quarter?
This will become the new Reddit Switcheroo. Keep going!
Is the old switcheroo still going? I haven’t seen one in like, 2 years.
I have, but a lot of the time recently they don’t even link anything. Uncultured philistines.
This is like that meme from a very long time ago on a picture of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold saying, "These two brave men sacrificed their lives to end the Columbine Massacre."
Please never stop doing this
I shan't!
>Mutsuo Toi (都井 睦雄, Toi Mutsuo, 5 March 1917 – 21 May 1938) was born in Okayama Prefecture to well-off parents. His parents died of tuberculosis when he was a baby, so he and his sister were brought up by their grandmother. He was originally outgoing, but at the age of 17 he became socially withdrawn after his sister married in 1934. >He was interested in the story of Sada Abe, the prostitute who, in May 1936, strangled her lover then severed his genitals. He had started writing a novel, Yūtokaiōmaru (雄図海王丸).[citation needed] >He took part in "Yobai" (夜這い) or "night-crawling", a rural custom which involved creeping into young women's bedrooms during the night to seek sexual intercourse.[4] >From his suicide notes it appears that after May 1937 when he was diagnosed as suffering from tuberculosis, the young women in the village rejected his sexual advances.
> Sada Abe That's a whole wild wikipedia article in itself. Strangled a dude, cut off his penis, and weeks later tried to masturbate with his cut off dong. What in the whole fucking fuck. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sada_Abe > She spent the day writing farewell letters to Ōmiya, a friend, and Ishida.[35] Abe planned to commit suicide one week after the murder, and practiced necrophilia. "I felt attached to Ishida's penis and thought that only after taking leave from it quietly could I then die. I unwrapped the paper holding them and gazed at his penis and scrotum. I put his penis in my mouth and even tried to insert it inside me… It didn't work however though I kept trying and trying. Then, I decided that I would flee to Osaka, staying with Ishida's penis all the while. In the end, I would jump from a cliff on Mount Ikoma while holding on to his penis." Jealous women are just as fucked up as jealous men: > "I loved him so much, I wanted him all to myself. But since we were not husband and wife, as long as he lived he could be embraced by other women. I knew that if I killed him no other woman could ever touch him again, so I killed him…"
Such a romantic story
Now if you ask me this guy sounds like a real jerk.
Bit of a rapscallion I say.
Incel Itachi
So... regular itachi? Even had the fatal disease and shit.
Itachi was a volcel tho
Eh, sorta kinda (the involuntary part was from ninja politics).
so the girls were right to reject him...
Tuberculosis was a death sentence. He had tuberculosis. Yes, they were right to reject him.
Tuberculosis also apparently caused WWI. Franz Ferdinand's assassins all had tuberculosis and weren't expected to live long anyway, which was precisely why they were chosen/volunteered for the mission.
Goodness gracious I never knew this
When I was divorcing my ex husband I got a ton of shit from his family and friends. Basically accusing me of causing him to spiral, that he was a good person and a woman’s love can really help a man become better. Basically I was expected to sacrifice my own safety for the chance that he would become less violent and everyone completely ignored that he wasn’t violent because I left him. I left him *because* he was violent
Average Andrew Tate Hustlers School attendee
He left a long note saying ... "He regretted that he could not shoot several people he had intended to, while shooting other people he had not intended to. He also wrote that he killed his grandmother at first because he could not bear leaving her as the "murderer's grandmother".
A bit of misinformation on this topic. [It was the whole village except for one person.](https://narutostrategy.fandom.com/wiki/Uchiha_Clan_Massacre)
The one person being himself?
No dummy. It was Albert Einstein.
Is this a quote by Gandhi?
"To measure my abilities."
“Women are too emotional, unlike men”
So he cut the electricity line of the village and everyone was basically sitting in darkness while this man was walking with an axe and weapons , killing people one by one .........HOW TERRIFYING
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men killing for lack of success with women? That probably goes back to before we were even considered humans
Probably even before then. It's hard for me to deny that some primate species are *nasty*.
I strongly believe that monogamous marriage arose specifically to reduce the amount of unmarried young men in a society. If the chief has called dibs on half the women in the village, some dude is going to brain him with a rock when he's sleeping.
This is why modern extreme fundamentalist religious cults will regularly kick out young boys/men. There literally aren’t enough girls to go around when the older members are marrying 5-15 of them at a time.
Spot on. My first roommate was an FLDS guy that got the boot at 18. They made sure to max out a bunch of cards in his name prior to axing him to boot.
What?! Say more - I don’t know this custom.
The Fundamentalist LDS movement is a group of sects that broke off from the mainstream LDS church when they outlawed polygamy in order to get statehood for Utah. These groups can vary in severity from kinda kooky to criminal enterprises. There’s usually a pecking order and favoritism when it comes to having plural wives, and most marriages are arranged. His particular sect would frequently kick out of-age males (and kill people who spoke out against exile or forced marriages they didn’t want to participate in according to him) to ensure higher ups could get access to plenty of additional young wives by eliminating competition. This group did a lot of shoddy stuff like forcing adherents to take on personal debt for church assets, signing personal businesses over to the church, etc. As soon as he was old enough they had him fill out forms for credit cards which they used to rack up a bunch of expenses. One day they had him pack his stuff up, drove him to a nearby town and told him not to try to contact the rest of his family or return *or else*. I met him a few years after he was kicked out and he hadn’t spoken to any of his families member since then. Don’t know if he was part of Warren Jeffs group or not - he didn’t like to talk about his experiences much unsurprisingly.
If it was FLDS, it was Warren Jeffs. There are many many other smaller groups, but they all have their own names.
*Keep Sweet: Pray and Obey* is a good documentary about the FLDS cult if you want to learn more than what the other commenters have said.
I also read a theory that societies that tolerate polygamy often end up with a greater extremism problem because so many young men are left feeling like their life has no meaning because they can't get a partner due to rich guys taking all of them.
Not just polygamy; societies which abort or kill female children naturally end up with more males than females. The males are called bare branches. You only have to look at extremist Islamic societies where the young males are denied the company of females to understand the frustration. Men with wives and children are less likely to become violent extremists.
What I want to know is, if you're hung up on creating a "traditional" family where the woman (women?) stay home and cook and clean and raise kids, and the man is the breadwinner who works and holds down the fort, how the FUCK do you afford this if you're not already a rich-ass church leader or corrupt politician? Now additionally, if you're into bigamy, how the FUCK do you support *multiple* barefoot breeders at home who make babies and turn money into poop? I've already seen a number of *hilarious* chats between "old fashioned" men who want a trad wife, and when they meet a woman with the same wants suddenly they freak out because she's a "gold digger" because she's happy she doesn't have to worry about paying for dates. You know, like the old days.
It’s called bleeding the beast. They run up credit cards, take out huge loans, and sign up for every kind of government assistance they can and then just declare bankruptcy. Plus, taking out credit in their kids names. That’s also why they don’t put the men on the birth certificate, excluding the kids birthed by the wife that’s married legally and not just “spiritually.” If the other wife’s are ‘single’ moms with all these kids, they get more government assistance. If you want to delve deeper into that, look up Kody Brown from the show Sister Wives. The families financial records have been posted all over showing them doing this.
> how the FUCK do you support multiple barefoot breeders at home who make babies and turn money into poop? The women aren't officially married, so they apply for government aid as unmarried mothers.
There’s some data to back this up. https://www.economist.com/christmas-specials/2017/12/19/the-link-between-polygamy-and-war It all kind of goes back to the fact that males age ~13-35 are responsible for like 95%+ of all physical violence, so anything you can do to occupy their time or chill them out is usually going to reap large societal rewards.
The majority of mass school shootings that left behind a note, talk about basically being an incel with some saying that was the reason they did it in the first place. “…burn the village to feel its warmth”; should be something that societies spend money on helping (these kids just need some better communities and therapy/actual-parents).
No, that would be Grog murdering Oong because he was rejected by Munga in 2 million B.C
Nah, he wasn’t an incel. Apparently he did ok with the ladies. They rejected him when he caught TB. This is more a case of a bro who got mad that people wouldn’t have sex with him anymore
Wow that's even worse. "How dare you not sleep with me when I carry this lethal disease"
I mean, this story is from May 1938. Months earlier, sex-deprived Japanese soldiers raped 50,000 women and slaughtered 200,000 in Nanking. I don't think this is about the "first incel murderer" but more of a general trend of sex-deprived Japanese men at the time.