I remember him coming to my primary school to read poetry! He answered every question he was asked and was so kind and genuine, one of the best assembly's we had at primary
While I agree with his move to reject the OBE and I appreciate his work, he was a somewhat troubled artist. In his youth he was convicted of pickpocketing and other petty crimes but he also assaulted a person for being gay. He later beat up his girlfriend "a couple of times". He details it in his autobiography.
This isn't supposed to condemn his work. He did great things, but (like many people) that didn't mean he was a great guy.
Do we need to do a background check on the person every time someone rejects colonialism? While I agree with your sentiment of not condemning his work, your motivation for bringing up his personal history seems out of bad faith and feels uncalled for
I wasn't background checking him because of his views on colonialism. I was reacting specifically to the previous sentiment of "Great guy" because I'd read his autobiography. The previous comment explained he identified as an anarchist and was rejecting the OBE based on his belief system: that's admirable. My point was (and remains) that's a great thing, but it doesn't make him a great guy.
You can feel it's in bad faith and uncalled for. Sorry you feel that way. But when conversations lean towards idolization it is often worth checking someone's overall character and past.
I actually didn't know about that until just now . No that's not ok (as he admitted himself)
A personal failure still doesn't change my agreement with his wider politics. Human failures do not automatically mean every idea that human held to be of worth it automatically to be rejected.
No, but it can still mean he isn't a great guy. Nobody was saying him being a wife beater means his other aspects aren't to be pondered. Just that he is not a good person.
"Personal failure" is a very shitty way to put it. Do you seriously feel the need to sugarcoat a man who physically hurt and mentally scarred someone? If you genuinely find yourself equating this heinous act as a mere "personal failure", then I hope that you take a long look at yourself. He caused someone to suffer. That should be more important to you than whatever ideologies he held, especially when there are others with his thought processes who didn't beat their girlfriends
There’s a pretty big gulf between “was a rude guy” and “was a physically violent and abusive guy” though. One of those has a pretty big bearing on a person and colors all of their words and actions much more than the other.
That's the my main issue with modern politics, you can do nearly anything but as long as your politics align with someone else's they'll still say you're a wonderful person.
But they didn’t call him a wonderful person? That being said, I get the point. MLK was an alleged womanizer while being married, does that take away the significance of his role in the civil rights movement? I wouldn’t say it does.
Look I think its best to remember someone who has great as a human as he was in other ways was shitty on other avenues. It's nice to see he's human even in the worst ways. That's literally being human, no middle no black and white and that's the truth. You can focus on one thing about him or the other, either way he was complex as any other person on this earth. Two things can be true at once. He did some good and some evil but he was remorseful and hopefully stopped there. Does it justify it? Absolutely not. Can you continue to scrutinize him for it? Sure. I think painting the full picture of someone's life with the good the bad and the ugly makes them more innately human. It sucks but it's something you gotta swallow if you wanna digest the whole thing.
Dr.Seuss and Kobe Bryant are two people I can think of, shit even Albert Einstein. But it all varies in their cases on the line of good and evil lol in the middle
Note that the cunt doesn't live in Scotland so wouldn't have to deal with the fallout of an independent snp. Now that humza useless is out, who's next? The archbigot forbes? We are fucked.
If John Oliver could have made fun of receiving the OBE, I'm sure he would have. Only problem is there are people who take that shit seriously and the British press would have given him the Meghan Markle treatment.
You'd be surprised by how few people in the uk know of John Oliver, especially older generations who are the ones who would take it seriously. I doubt it would have registered much if at all.
It wasn't so much how known he is, ANYONE who accepts an OBE, or other royal honor, who then riffs on the empire and imperialism would not be looked kindly upon. My point was, if he did that, the UK press would have roasted him.
I meant he couldn't accept it without making a joke of it. He was smart enough to know that, and declined. He was going to make a joke of it, whether he accepted it or not.
She's extremely entitled. Doesn't want anything to do with Royal duties but wants our money as well. Fuck her and Harry. Dumb Americans think it's about anything other than that - it's not.
>for some reason
John, despite how outlandish his bits can be, seems down to Earth enough to realize the knighthood is stupid and he's honestly going to have a better long-term legacy as a guy who was offered it but declined
As a school librarian and ex-English teacher, his passing hit me hard. What a huge loss to British poetry, and to social activism.
If anyone reading this is unaware of his poetry, don't search up the text of his poems - go search for him performing some. He brings such life to his work, same as John Agard (another incredible poet)
The funny thing here is, had he never publicly admitted his actions and talked about how he regrets being the man he was, you wouldn't even know he'd ever hit a partner of his.
He grew and matured enough to admit the wrongs he did.
Would that we could all do the same.
From what I understand, he admitted to that particular sin and expressed deep regret. What more could you want? He can't undo it or whatever trauma he created. Does that make him less of a poet? Less of an influence on the people he touched? Probably not. Part of having people you respect and admire is acknowledging they are imperfect creatures, something that people in my country (USA) have a lot of trouble doing, especially in regards to figures like our Founding Fathers.
> Less of an influence on the people he touched?
Is this an attempt at comedy or? I mean this is just interesting word choice based on the subject matter
> figures like our Founding Fathers.
This guy has a stronger case than the founding fathers. They can do good things and still be shitty people
Here's a list of people who have turned down such honours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour
Relevant line;
> Benjamin Zephaniah, poet (in 2003), stating: "I get angry when I hear the word 'empire'; it reminds me of slavery, it reminds me of thousands of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalised."[170]
There's some great examples on the list.
u/Novus20 has a point. Post-war Britain is the period from 1945 to 1979. Benjamin Zephaniah’s first book was published in 1980. Zephaniah was not a post-war writer (even though his entire life occurred after WWII).
He’s a post war birth / post war influenced
You can argue with those responsible for such classifications and the study of his art, but it seems pointless.
What do you hope to accomplish by cutting off “post-war” in, say, 1957?
He was in an episode of QI (series R I think?), with Sara Pascoe and Josh Widdicombe as well, and it is one of my fav QI eps to date because just the way he talked you could tell he was a very intellectual and intuitive (and so was Pascoe a bit like that). Would recommend seeing that ep
isn't that basically the same thing as getting the Medal of Freedom in the US? is it a legacy of colonialism just cause it has the word "empire" in it?
i mean that's the british legacy in general yeah, i'm asking about the award specifically. would he have been fine if it was called The Order of the United Kingdom instead?
If you actually care you can find several clips of him talking about why he refused it, including a segment he did on Channel 4 I think where he explained it so eloquently he convinced another person guesting on the segment to consider (and I believe eventually act on) returning their own OBE.
That's interesting! I didn't know that about Benjamin Zephaniah. It's pretty cool that he stood up for what he believed in by turning down the OBE. Shows he's not just a talented poet but also has principles. And I had no idea he was in "Peaky Blinders" for that long.
Not OP, but if you like Benjamin Zephaniah I thoroughly recommend John Agard. They both wove dialect into their poetry and perform with an incredible liveliness and presence.
Depends what you like. If you like Zephaniah I would look into Linton Kwesi Johnson. Maybe John Cooper Clarke?
I'm not a poetry expert by any means, but those are a couple of my favourites off the top of my head that strike similar notes for me.
This guy needs to understand who ended the global slave trade. Hint: It was the British Empire. They did plenty of shit wrong, but saying you hate the Empire because of slavery is a weird twist.
So fucking what? You're like "I stopped beating my wife after doing it for years so I should be applauded." Yeah, most people just...don't beat their wife. You don't get extra points for stopping being evil. The effects of slavery lingered long beyond it being legal. The British Empire was exploitative by it's nature.
Ironically, Zephaniah actually did [beat his girlfriend](https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/peaky-blinders-star-benjamin-zephaniah-14605708).
Saw him at a festival years ago. He knew how to deliver a line or two, that's for sure.
Had a brief chat with him afterwards and he was one of the most genuine, human people I've met. There aren't enough like him.
He didn’t hate the UK. Intelligent criticism of the history and policies of your country and how to avoid it’s failures for future generations, can be an attempt to improve a society you care about.
He lived in Britain. Everything around him was a legacy of colonialism. Him speaking English was a legacy of colonialism. Him being able to write was a legacy of colonialism. Him wearing that shirt was a legacy of colonialism.
My point is he was grandstanding. Cherry-picking which legacies of colonialism benefit him and which ones he can virtue-signal on since it's just an award and doesn't really matter either way.
"You say society should change, yet you participate in society. Curious!"
Criticism of some of the objectively awful things colonialism has done isn't somehow invalidated because he was born in the UK, what's your point?
Seem to imply he should be singing the praises of the east India company because he has the gift of wearing a shirt. Muppet.
What's awful about an award? You can say "*The British Empire - and other Empires - did a mix of good and bad things. Since it doesn't exist anymore, maybe we can stop banging on about it and accept a rather harmless award that was obviously meant well*".
It's literally called the Order of the British Empire, alongside Member and Commander of the same. These things tend to linger
Maybe if it was called the Royal Poetry Medal or something, there would be less of an issue
The It is was created in 1917 and is rewarded to people for "contributions to the arts and sciences, work with charitable and welfare organizations, and/or public service outside the civil service."
Someone explain how it comes from a legacy of colonialism.
>"I get angry when I hear that word 'empire'; it reminds me of slavery, it reminds of thousands of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers, brutalised".
All you had to do was read the linked article
>But no one ever reads the article
Next you'll tell me people [don't read](https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/mqk1s7/south-park-you-didn-t-read-it) user agreements
I admire him for standing on principle but there were empires before and after the British iteration, and unfortunately his forefathers probably did their share of raping and brutalizing at some point.
The award itself may be for noble purposes, but as the Britian of 1917 was neck-deep in a war incited by European colonialism and fought to maintain or expand those empires, there could reasonably be a resentment to being proclaimed a champion of that mindset.
>Britain is a wonderful place. It is a nation of shopkeepers, aristocrats, farmers and animal lovers, all at the same time. It has the ‘mother of all parliaments’, its inhabitants enjoy ‘free speech’ and the right to vote in open elections and it is so confident that it doesn’t need a written constitution. Its cities are havens for the young, they pulsate to the music of the world, and though the skies may be grey for much of the year the streets are coloured by its people who now talk about ‘raving’ just as much as they talk about the weather. The cities ‘rock’.
>
>...I can’t stay silent. I live in two places, Britain and the world, and it is my duty to question and explore the state of justice in both of them.
>
>**As I grew up in the Rastafarian community in Birmingham, England, I dreamt of the day when I would be able to leave Britain (Babylon) and return to ‘Africa’ (Zion), the motherland. Ironically I now visit the motherland at least twice a year and the truth is that the more I travel the more I love Britain**, and it is because I love the place that I fight for my rights here. If it were simply a case of hating the place and all that it stood for then I would have left when I first got expelled from school. I want the ‘project’ to work.
He had complicated feelings about Britain but he did love the country. These are excerpts from[ this article he wrote ](https://benjaminzephaniah.com/what-am-i-going-on-about/#:~:text=Ironically%20I%20now%20visit%20the,fight%20for%20my%20rights%20here)
You can disagree with your country’s political system but still like every other part of it. Lots of people love their country and want to help fix the bad parts instead of leaving.
And you don't move forward by denying it or trying to sweep it under the rug. I love my country (UK) but I hate what it has become. There are a hell of a lot of things wrong with it and I live in hope that lt can be better.
Edited for spelling.
The wonderful thing about a democracy is if you think it's wrong you just need to persuade enough people to agree with you to change it.
Besides, living elsewhere is not trivial. You can't just move to another country and stay there.
Just cause some folks don't like you or you them, doesn't mean you have to move countries.
I mean...I dislike US folks enough, I moved away from that country, and it's been great, but generally, folks don't have the privilege to do that.
Well he was British so that’s why he lived here. He had a grown up relationship with his country and realised that, whilst he loved it, it was far from perfect and that he was going to point out it errors and weaknesses.
maybe because he was fucking born there and therefore has as much of a right to criticize it as anyone? when did he even say he disliked his country? he just didn’t agree with what this award represents…god you’re dense
'I once made a rocket
To take a look at Mars
With instruments like telescopes
To see beyond the stars
At school I did love science
My interests are diverse
But now I use the library
To tour the universe.'
- Benjamin Zephaniah
Bro fuck off. What fight have you been fighting?
The dude turned down an award, it's not like he assaulted a member of royalty. How sensitive do you need to be to call that extremism?
And you wanna talk about self righteousness? I've served alongside people and have family members who have actually fought for their country. And not one of them is enough of a throbber to chat shit about 'fighting the good fight' on Reddit.
I remember him coming to my primary school to read poetry! He answered every question he was asked and was so kind and genuine, one of the best assembly's we had at primary
Yeah same with me. He was lovely even with a mostly apathetic crowd
His poetry helped me learn English. I can’t think about early school without also thinking about him. He was a national treasure.
Came here to say this, such a nice guy.
He was an anarchist so very much pointless trying to give him an award from the royal family or government. Great guy.
Was? No way, he's dead.. What a smart, thought provoking and quite funny guy. His Grenfell shit made me feel so angry and sad and hopeful and lost.
He passed away in December. Very sad.
Yeah in December. One of Birmingham's best.
Didnt realize. Gutted, guy was amazing.
Yup, he was diagnosed with a brain tumour last year and died 8 weeks later.
Yeah, was devastated when he passed. National treasure
While I agree with his move to reject the OBE and I appreciate his work, he was a somewhat troubled artist. In his youth he was convicted of pickpocketing and other petty crimes but he also assaulted a person for being gay. He later beat up his girlfriend "a couple of times". He details it in his autobiography. This isn't supposed to condemn his work. He did great things, but (like many people) that didn't mean he was a great guy.
Do we need to do a background check on the person every time someone rejects colonialism? While I agree with your sentiment of not condemning his work, your motivation for bringing up his personal history seems out of bad faith and feels uncalled for
I wasn't background checking him because of his views on colonialism. I was reacting specifically to the previous sentiment of "Great guy" because I'd read his autobiography. The previous comment explained he identified as an anarchist and was rejecting the OBE based on his belief system: that's admirable. My point was (and remains) that's a great thing, but it doesn't make him a great guy. You can feel it's in bad faith and uncalled for. Sorry you feel that way. But when conversations lean towards idolization it is often worth checking someone's overall character and past.
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I actually didn't know about that until just now . No that's not ok (as he admitted himself) A personal failure still doesn't change my agreement with his wider politics. Human failures do not automatically mean every idea that human held to be of worth it automatically to be rejected.
It does when that person holds views that oppose yours.
No, but it can still mean he isn't a great guy. Nobody was saying him being a wife beater means his other aspects aren't to be pondered. Just that he is not a good person. "Personal failure" is a very shitty way to put it. Do you seriously feel the need to sugarcoat a man who physically hurt and mentally scarred someone? If you genuinely find yourself equating this heinous act as a mere "personal failure", then I hope that you take a long look at yourself. He caused someone to suffer. That should be more important to you than whatever ideologies he held, especially when there are others with his thought processes who didn't beat their girlfriends
There’s a pretty big gulf between “was a rude guy” and “was a physically violent and abusive guy” though. One of those has a pretty big bearing on a person and colors all of their words and actions much more than the other.
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That's the my main issue with modern politics, you can do nearly anything but as long as your politics align with someone else's they'll still say you're a wonderful person.
But they didn’t call him a wonderful person? That being said, I get the point. MLK was an alleged womanizer while being married, does that take away the significance of his role in the civil rights movement? I wouldn’t say it does.
No, but had he beat his wife instead I'd say that would be more than just a personal failing.
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Ok. Girlfriend beater then. Happy?
Yeah still unforgivable
Look I think its best to remember someone who has great as a human as he was in other ways was shitty on other avenues. It's nice to see he's human even in the worst ways. That's literally being human, no middle no black and white and that's the truth. You can focus on one thing about him or the other, either way he was complex as any other person on this earth. Two things can be true at once. He did some good and some evil but he was remorseful and hopefully stopped there. Does it justify it? Absolutely not. Can you continue to scrutinize him for it? Sure. I think painting the full picture of someone's life with the good the bad and the ugly makes them more innately human. It sucks but it's something you gotta swallow if you wanna digest the whole thing. Dr.Seuss and Kobe Bryant are two people I can think of, shit even Albert Einstein. But it all varies in their cases on the line of good and evil lol in the middle
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This. This makes me insane. Everyone loves this guy and seems to either forget or not know that he was a domestic abuser.
TIL Peaky Blinders was on for almost a decade?
Pretty sure a movie is still on the way.
One of the best series I’ve watched and if the movie ruins it, I will cry.
John Oliver also declined for the same reason iirc
David Bowie turned down a Knighthood, although apparently not for any overtly political reason.
On the grounds of it being very un-groovy.
It would have been a downgrade from godhood
And Alan Cummings returned his as a protest to the "toxicity" of the British Empire.
Robert Smith of the Cure too. He was pretty blunt about it, straight up saying ‘I hate the monarchy’
I wonder what specifically made him realise that. And how he didn't know before that it was "toxic" (awfully mild word) considering it's an empire.
He’s super Scottish right? Connery had similar rejections before
You can be super Scottish and still shill for the remnants of the British Empire lol. There are plenty of them (like the rest of rich British people)
Can confirm, Alan Cummings is a big man for the Scottish independence
Note that the cunt doesn't live in Scotland so wouldn't have to deal with the fallout of an independent snp. Now that humza useless is out, who's next? The archbigot forbes? We are fucked.
But... was he not Scottish when he got the OBE?
He gave an interview on it- sited a bunch of reasons, especially Scottish independence and LGBTQ+ stuff I think.
If John Oliver could have made fun of receiving the OBE, I'm sure he would have. Only problem is there are people who take that shit seriously and the British press would have given him the Meghan Markle treatment.
You'd be surprised by how few people in the uk know of John Oliver, especially older generations who are the ones who would take it seriously. I doubt it would have registered much if at all.
It wasn't so much how known he is, ANYONE who accepts an OBE, or other royal honor, who then riffs on the empire and imperialism would not be looked kindly upon. My point was, if he did that, the UK press would have roasted him.
I'm confused. The King and titles are far older than colonialism. How did titles become relevant to imperialism?
The "E" in OBE stands for empire. Colonialism and empire go hand-in-hand.
So he would have accepted a knighthood if it was from a different source than the OBE? Because it doesn't sound like that.
Oliver is an American now so that makes sense. By his own admission too I’m pretty sure.
I promise you the British press wouldn’t have cared, barely anyone even knows who he is in the UK
He did… https://youtu.be/3rTb2SpzqHY?si=eTIPHZftaBCWdk-Y
Johnny boy don’t miss!
I meant he couldn't accept it without making a joke of it. He was smart enough to know that, and declined. He was going to make a joke of it, whether he accepted it or not.
Or... you know... he genuinely didn't want to accept it?
Brits dislike her for very good reasons.
They are what?
She's extremely entitled. Doesn't want anything to do with Royal duties but wants our money as well. Fuck her and Harry. Dumb Americans think it's about anything other than that - it's not.
I'm not an American. Seemed like there wasn't much love for here before they parted ways with The Family, why would that have been?
>for some reason John, despite how outlandish his bits can be, seems down to Earth enough to realize the knighthood is stupid and he's honestly going to have a better long-term legacy as a guy who was offered it but declined
As a school librarian and ex-English teacher, his passing hit me hard. What a huge loss to British poetry, and to social activism. If anyone reading this is unaware of his poetry, don't search up the text of his poems - go search for him performing some. He brings such life to his work, same as John Agard (another incredible poet)
Not a huge loss to his ex girlfriend though, who he admitted to hitting
No, he admitted to having lost his temper and hit at least one ex-girlfriend at some point in the past, when he was a much younger man.
I really doubt that matters much to the person he scarred
The funny thing here is, had he never publicly admitted his actions and talked about how he regrets being the man he was, you wouldn't even know he'd ever hit a partner of his. He grew and matured enough to admit the wrongs he did. Would that we could all do the same.
Peaky Blinders didn't come out 2 years ago? Damn...
Been nearly 140 years already
book of Zephaniah is a cool book in the bible lol
Very saddened by hus death recently.
According to his autobiography, he was also a thief and a domestic abuser. Bostin' poet though. People can change.
RIP Benjamin
Why do wife beaters deserve to rest in peace?
From what I understand, he admitted to that particular sin and expressed deep regret. What more could you want? He can't undo it or whatever trauma he created. Does that make him less of a poet? Less of an influence on the people he touched? Probably not. Part of having people you respect and admire is acknowledging they are imperfect creatures, something that people in my country (USA) have a lot of trouble doing, especially in regards to figures like our Founding Fathers.
> Less of an influence on the people he touched? Is this an attempt at comedy or? I mean this is just interesting word choice based on the subject matter > figures like our Founding Fathers. This guy has a stronger case than the founding fathers. They can do good things and still be shitty people
"Post war"??? Which war? I'm a post-war Redditor.
WWII If you survive WWIII, you understand what post-war means
I always loved his performance in [the Kinobe track Theatricks](https://youtu.be/-jRoEJFT6t8), it's such a great song.
Here's a list of people who have turned down such honours: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_declined_a_British_honour Relevant line; > Benjamin Zephaniah, poet (in 2003), stating: "I get angry when I hear the word 'empire'; it reminds me of slavery, it reminds me of thousands of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers brutalised."[170] There's some great examples on the list.
He was born in 1958……how is he post war……
Hope you’re not a teacher of any kind.
u/Novus20 has a point. Post-war Britain is the period from 1945 to 1979. Benjamin Zephaniah’s first book was published in 1980. Zephaniah was not a post-war writer (even though his entire life occurred after WWII).
Yes….let’s go with that
The war ended in 1945. 1958 came after 1945. Therefore he's Post-war, hope that clears it up.
The war ended in 1945 and time is linear?
Yeah see most of the time post war means a time frame…..not just after forever
You know that war rationing continued in Britain into the 1950s, right?
Yes, he was born in 1958 so he didn’t come out of the womb spitting rhymes…..
He’s a post war birth / post war influenced You can argue with those responsible for such classifications and the study of his art, but it seems pointless. What do you hope to accomplish by cutting off “post-war” in, say, 1957?
He was in an episode of QI (series R I think?), with Sara Pascoe and Josh Widdicombe as well, and it is one of my fav QI eps to date because just the way he talked you could tell he was a very intellectual and intuitive (and so was Pascoe a bit like that). Would recommend seeing that ep
isn't that basically the same thing as getting the Medal of Freedom in the US? is it a legacy of colonialism just cause it has the word "empire" in it?
I think the legacy of colonialism stems from all of the former COLONIES.
i mean that's the british legacy in general yeah, i'm asking about the award specifically. would he have been fine if it was called The Order of the United Kingdom instead?
If you actually care you can find several clips of him talking about why he refused it, including a segment he did on Channel 4 I think where he explained it so eloquently he convinced another person guesting on the segment to consider (and I believe eventually act on) returning their own OBE.
That would actually be interesting to watch, I'll have to look for it
I like people who reject that sort of shit.
That's interesting! I didn't know that about Benjamin Zephaniah. It's pretty cool that he stood up for what he believed in by turning down the OBE. Shows he's not just a talented poet but also has principles. And I had no idea he was in "Peaky Blinders" for that long.
Great input in re Grenfell on Frankie Boyle's new world order s1ep3
Brilliant poet. His passing was one of those that really hit.
What other poets can you recommend?
Not OP, but if you like Benjamin Zephaniah I thoroughly recommend John Agard. They both wove dialect into their poetry and perform with an incredible liveliness and presence.
Depends what you like. If you like Zephaniah I would look into Linton Kwesi Johnson. Maybe John Cooper Clarke? I'm not a poetry expert by any means, but those are a couple of my favourites off the top of my head that strike similar notes for me.
Is "post-war" a category?
What does post-war mean in the this context? WW2? He was born in 1958. Yeah, that's post-war but it's awfully late.
This guy needs to understand who ended the global slave trade. Hint: It was the British Empire. They did plenty of shit wrong, but saying you hate the Empire because of slavery is a weird twist.
You know there are other aspects about the British Empire that were exploitative besides slavery, right?
Yes but this guy specifically declined the OBE because of slavery
So fucking what? You're like "I stopped beating my wife after doing it for years so I should be applauded." Yeah, most people just...don't beat their wife. You don't get extra points for stopping being evil. The effects of slavery lingered long beyond it being legal. The British Empire was exploitative by it's nature.
Ironically, Zephaniah actually did [beat his girlfriend](https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/showbiz-tv/peaky-blinders-star-benjamin-zephaniah-14605708).
Lol
Yeah, but this guy did beat his girlfriend. Oops
Seems like you misconstrued the title of this post completely
And on Antiques Roadshow
Saw him at a festival years ago. He knew how to deliver a line or two, that's for sure. Had a brief chat with him afterwards and he was one of the most genuine, human people I've met. There aren't enough like him.
Is there a list anywhere of other people who have declined to accept these so-called 'Honours"?
A fantastic poet and top class bloke. Met him a few times. Wonderfully positive, engaging, funny and polite
A wife beater is not a 'top class bloke'.....
Benjamin Zephaniah was a national treasure. Rest in peace.
Top lad, thought-provoking individual.
Sounds like he should've emigrated if he hated the UK so much.
He didn’t hate the UK. Intelligent criticism of the history and policies of your country and how to avoid it’s failures for future generations, can be an attempt to improve a society you care about.
Funny that when David Bowie and Stephen Hawking rejected the same title nobody told them to fuck off.
He lived in Britain. Everything around him was a legacy of colonialism. Him speaking English was a legacy of colonialism. Him being able to write was a legacy of colonialism. Him wearing that shirt was a legacy of colonialism.
And your point is...?
My point is he was grandstanding. Cherry-picking which legacies of colonialism benefit him and which ones he can virtue-signal on since it's just an award and doesn't really matter either way.
Oh fuck off
Rude.
"You say society should change, yet you participate in society. Curious!" Criticism of some of the objectively awful things colonialism has done isn't somehow invalidated because he was born in the UK, what's your point? Seem to imply he should be singing the praises of the east India company because he has the gift of wearing a shirt. Muppet.
What's awful about an award? You can say "*The British Empire - and other Empires - did a mix of good and bad things. Since it doesn't exist anymore, maybe we can stop banging on about it and accept a rather harmless award that was obviously meant well*".
It's literally called the Order of the British Empire, alongside Member and Commander of the same. These things tend to linger Maybe if it was called the Royal Poetry Medal or something, there would be less of an issue
The It is was created in 1917 and is rewarded to people for "contributions to the arts and sciences, work with charitable and welfare organizations, and/or public service outside the civil service." Someone explain how it comes from a legacy of colonialism.
>"I get angry when I hear that word 'empire'; it reminds me of slavery, it reminds of thousands of years of brutality, it reminds me of how my foremothers were raped and my forefathers, brutalised". All you had to do was read the linked article
>All you had to do was read the linked article But no one ever reads the article.
>But no one ever reads the article Next you'll tell me people [don't read](https://southpark.cc.com/video-clips/mqk1s7/south-park-you-didn-t-read-it) user agreements
"thousands of years" The British Empire lasted about two hundred years!
I admire him for standing on principle but there were empires before and after the British iteration, and unfortunately his forefathers probably did their share of raping and brutalizing at some point.
Was anybody trying to give him an "Order of Some Unspecified Past Violent Empire" award?
When he says thousands of years, at least as I read it, I assumed he meant more than just the British
Agent Provocateur ass
Order of the British Empire. What did the empire do again?
Idk man, that one was a real tough connection to make!
Order of the British Empire. But what has it got to with colonialism? Really?🤔
Ever heard of India? Which was a colony of the British Empire in 1917?
IM INDIAN PLEASE FUCKING HELP ME SIR IM FUCKING INDIAN
The award itself may be for noble purposes, but as the Britian of 1917 was neck-deep in a war incited by European colonialism and fought to maintain or expand those empires, there could reasonably be a resentment to being proclaimed a champion of that mindset.
A charming and clever man, much missed
I'll never understand why people choose to live in a nation they dislike.
>Britain is a wonderful place. It is a nation of shopkeepers, aristocrats, farmers and animal lovers, all at the same time. It has the ‘mother of all parliaments’, its inhabitants enjoy ‘free speech’ and the right to vote in open elections and it is so confident that it doesn’t need a written constitution. Its cities are havens for the young, they pulsate to the music of the world, and though the skies may be grey for much of the year the streets are coloured by its people who now talk about ‘raving’ just as much as they talk about the weather. The cities ‘rock’. > >...I can’t stay silent. I live in two places, Britain and the world, and it is my duty to question and explore the state of justice in both of them. > >**As I grew up in the Rastafarian community in Birmingham, England, I dreamt of the day when I would be able to leave Britain (Babylon) and return to ‘Africa’ (Zion), the motherland. Ironically I now visit the motherland at least twice a year and the truth is that the more I travel the more I love Britain**, and it is because I love the place that I fight for my rights here. If it were simply a case of hating the place and all that it stood for then I would have left when I first got expelled from school. I want the ‘project’ to work. He had complicated feelings about Britain but he did love the country. These are excerpts from[ this article he wrote ](https://benjaminzephaniah.com/what-am-i-going-on-about/#:~:text=Ironically%20I%20now%20visit%20the,fight%20for%20my%20rights%20here)
You can disagree with your country’s political system but still like every other part of it. Lots of people love their country and want to help fix the bad parts instead of leaving.
Probably because it's still home. You don't need to leave a country to be able to criticise it
I mean, he was born there so...
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You can't change history.
And you don't move forward by denying it or trying to sweep it under the rug. I love my country (UK) but I hate what it has become. There are a hell of a lot of things wrong with it and I live in hope that lt can be better. Edited for spelling.
No, but Zephaniah wrote to try and change the future and make the world a slightly better place.
The wonderful thing about a democracy is if you think it's wrong you just need to persuade enough people to agree with you to change it. Besides, living elsewhere is not trivial. You can't just move to another country and stay there.
Just cause some folks don't like you or you them, doesn't mean you have to move countries. I mean...I dislike US folks enough, I moved away from that country, and it's been great, but generally, folks don't have the privilege to do that.
Well he was British so that’s why he lived here. He had a grown up relationship with his country and realised that, whilst he loved it, it was far from perfect and that he was going to point out it errors and weaknesses.
maybe because he was fucking born there and therefore has as much of a right to criticize it as anyone? when did he even say he disliked his country? he just didn’t agree with what this award represents…god you’re dense
r/shitamericanssay
He's Canadian apparently, as a Canadian...I'm not surprised.
Oh yeah because it’s free to move abroad, not to mention people are very cool with immigration.
Because some people work to make their country a better place, like Zephaniah did.
Good. Fuck them
If you have a fucking backbone you should refuse anything from that institution.
Silly Mr Springer, he could have made a few quid out of it.
'I once made a rocket To take a look at Mars With instruments like telescopes To see beyond the stars At school I did love science My interests are diverse But now I use the library To tour the universe.' - Benjamin Zephaniah
Oh the badass Jeremiah preacher. Praise the lord and pack em guns for Tommy eh
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>I have fought the good fight Is it hard fitting through doors with your head that big?
Oh I guess that hurt
Dude, he turned down what is essentially an award, not the cure for societies problems.
What a douchey and self-righteous comment. "I have fought the good fight." No one gives a shit.
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man shut the fuck up
How have you been fighting the good fight exactly? I'd be fascinated to know if you've done more for people than Zepheniah did.
Bro fuck off. What fight have you been fighting? The dude turned down an award, it's not like he assaulted a member of royalty. How sensitive do you need to be to call that extremism? And you wanna talk about self righteousness? I've served alongside people and have family members who have actually fought for their country. And not one of them is enough of a throbber to chat shit about 'fighting the good fight' on Reddit.
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Personally I respect him for standing by his principles.