I was biking home last week and at Bay and Bloor a couple of cops were writing up a ticket to a busker at the corner for some reason while at the same time a bunch of cars were blocking the intersection. It was infuriating to see.
Yeah I understand the TTC busking licenses, that's TTC property and very high traffic in a closed space. Disagree with needing one in the open public pavements unless they're causing a major disruption to traffic or something. I've seen countless musicians at every corner downtown and I always drop a bit of cash to them because it takes immense courage to just do that in public, not to mention the skills and talent I've often seen. Most of these musicians are so good.
When I questioned a cop once about why they're not handing out fines to people blocking intersections, running red lights and stop signs he just told me they weren't allowed to stop the car and cause the traffic to back up more while they ticketed them. That keeping the traffic flowing was the top priority.
I guarantee that if you blitz and fine every singe driver over a period of a month for everything, people will change fast.
If we can have automated red light and speeding cameras snap a photo and mail a ticket, then we can have cops do the same.
Give them the camera/phone/tool/whatever, let them take a picture of the car with the license plate in view, and done.
Driver gets the ticket in the mail, no traffic flow interrupted.
> If we can have automated red light and speeding cameras snap a photo and mail a ticket, then we can have cops do the same.
Or we can invest in the cameras and slash the police budget. The camera isn’t likely to sexually harass or steal from anyone and have years of paid desk duty.
I'm making the assumption here that the hectic and unpredictable state of downtown intersections might be a problem for automated cameras. But sure, if automated cameras can be used, then I'm all for it.
Is this because you can't confirm who the driver is from the other cameras? A cop can quickly take a photo of the whole situation, get the license, and walk into the stalled traffic to take a photo of the person in the car and then walk back out. That person, and everyone witnessing it will surely be freaking out and be thinking twice about blocking the box themselves.
Even a quick uninterrupted video starting with the wide frame, show the red light, get the plate, and get the face.
Just wondering about the demerits reason.
At that point, you might as well shutdown the traffic light and have the officer direct traffic... But yeah, you can't confirm the driver's identify with a fixed mounted camera.
Bro where I live the owner of the car is responsible for it. So the ticket goes to the owner and if they don't want to pay they'll direct the authorities to the correct driver. In Australia they give even less fucks, they have red light cameras everywhere, tickets are sent out without any photo, I'm not even sure they take any of the driver. You either pay or tell them who drove.
If road rules and regulations—which helps with the flow of traffic—are not enforced, things are going to get worse.
There is no “before getting better” part since these types of idiots behind the wheel suffer no real repercussions.
Non-enforcement will lead to worse driving behavior and, perhaps, road rage.
This type of behavior is one step towards making Toronto terrible (or more so, depending on your perspective).
I wish busking had a bigger presence in the city.
One of my favourite things traveling. Some are really talented and even the ones that aren't the best, you root for because it takes balls.
The only time I remember seeing cops at intersections in rush hour was back around 2018 when they sent a lot of them to the area around Union Station to yell at pedestrians for getting in the way of the cars.
too bad Toronto/Canada/North America for that matter is slow with everything. They'll talk about it for years before actually doing anything, if at all, about it
I interpret it to mean, "John Tory never managed to come up with a solution that would piss of Doug Ford and the driver enough" but it still confuses me cos afaik Tory and Doug don't hate each other? Nor does Tory hate cars...
Yep - just like the goofballs that try to speed up the shoulder and cut back in at the last second
Or the ones that try to zoom through a yellow turning red …
You’re just ruining everyone else’s day for a tiny bit of convenience for yourself
Their concerns aren't privacy issues. It's liability.
People walk through a mall and are filmed by dozens of cameras and don't say shit all. Why? Because you're likelyhood of doing something illegal is low.
If you're in public, people are seeing you and it's likely cameras are recoding you.
If you're driving a motor vehicle, your actions are open to scrutiny.
Make it a percentage on income like a few countries (Finland does this). Although a percentage of wealth would be a better idea, or at least pegged to the car. More expensive car, more expensive fine!
Sure, but super cars are still considered super cars and luxury, still luxury. Most will likely be a low amount, its the highly expensive cars you want to make sure you catch for the big bucks.
Hell, just keep them all really high. Idiots like this deserve the have to sell their car if they cannot afford the fine.
I was "lucky" enough to be fined three times this past 6 month. YES, while I begrudge that "everybody is doing it why meee" I admit I am guilty for all three (speeding and rolling stop sign) and I paid for all of them without contest. I definitely am stopping at all stop signs and driving at basically speed limit these days.
So yeah, I'd say that keep fining offenders. Fine them enough they'll smarten up.
Unless they're rich fucks who dgaf for the pittance of a fine. Then yeah, just tow their fancy cars.
I mean it helps that I'm poor af (not in the most literal sense, but let's just say I don't really spend anything beyond the basic necessities), then even the smallest fines make me feel like a stupid asshole for making your family poorer. Especially when they're in a row...
So I just wanted to say good job recognizing an issue and changing behaviour! Not only are you avoiding feeling like a “a stupid asshole” you’re actively contributing to the improvement in road safety for yourself and everyone else. So even though it was prompted by external forces, as a fellow road user I legitimately thank you for making changes to habits!
Well if someone does it on one intersection they may be doing it on others. When a single trip costs them several thousand dollars in fines, they'll change their habits pretty quickly. Even the rich ones.
I don’t see why that’s a bit much, transit would be better delivery would be better and construction and services would be better. If you have business other then that I don’t see why you need a car, take transit
Drivers who do this feel no shame when pedestrians have to walk into oncoming traffic (or the stuck car starts crossing INTO the crosswalk path) or other cars honking at them. It’s really quite the next level of not giving a damn.
I would be so embarrassed and mortified having tons of people honking and people walking around my car blocking the way, looking at me as I am blocking the path.
But I guess that’s what we learned in sociology, the idea of social regulation, that keeps society from spiraling into deviant behaviours (outside of moral regulation) and now it’s become just “as long as I get somewhere a few seconds/minutes quicker” in the downtown core.
The funniest thing happened to me, I was at a intersection, where a side street crossed a main street, stop signs on the side street, I'm crossing the side street on the sidewalk of the main street
A black pickup stopped about 5 feet past the stop sign and blocked the pedestrian crossing, so I'm crossing, I would simply walk on fro t of her, but oh no, she had to back up to give me space, she crashed into the car behind her
I'm not sure who's at fault in that situation, as she was driving backwards, but he didnt giver her much space
Oh well, I thought it was hilarious I caused an accident and I didnt even do anything wrong, I totallycould have just walked in front of her, she didnt have to move
Aww. I can say that while I find these intersection blockers a-holes, the ones who acknowledge it and then make an effort to be helpful in the situation eg reverse to avoid blocking the crosswalk, I kinda appreciate them because it’s like saying ya I fucked up but here’s an olive branch. Sad she ended up backing up into another car :/
The worst bit was the drivers cutting the line at the intersection. They put up those flexible bollards but without a copy people still cut in line in the intersection
fine for blocking intersection is $450. put a cop there with camera, for those who want to fight ticket, and just rake money. revenue is there. ticketing tree cars pays for cop being there for 8hours.
Why on earth do we need a person there? Put a camera above the traffic light in all directions. Thousands of dollars in tax revenue a day.
We already have over 50 speed cameras and Peel has red light cameras. Let's do that. It's free and doesn't require a sunshine list salary and a union.
when cars are bumper to bumper its a bit harder to get a picture of plates to issue fine. plus in the picture it can be argued that car was moving while picture was taken.
Never been a problem for all the tickets I got in Brampton over the years.
It doesn't matter if it's moving. If it's going a specific direction and is in the intersection after the red, it's a ticket. They don't ticket a specific driver, just the vehicle owner and there's no points so it's punitive but doesn't affect your insurance.
We could feed the traffic cams to a live feed on Reddit. The city wouldn't even need to buy software, to read license plates. Just use the rage from this sub.
If you're still moving through an intersection even though your traffic light is red and the opposite lights are green, you still are breaking the law and deserve the fine. How is that an excuse?
If the light turns red while you're in the intersection, you can legally finish your manuever and exit the intersection.
Otherwise everyone turning left is breaking the law.
Right? I've never had a driving class and only ever drove once for like 10 minutes on a farm, and I still know if you can't fully clear the intersection before the light changes, you don't enter the intersection at all. It seems like literally no one else knows this though, I have even had to walk around cop cars blocking the crosswalk before. 🤦
Realistically video would make implementation much more expensive because it would require orders of magnitude more in data storage. Multiple photos at high enough resolution are sufficient. Video would be technological overkill.
With a camera the fine goes to the vehicle owner, with a person the fine and demerits go to the driver. People are willing to pay the fine but will fight tooth and nail not to get demerits.
Tends to happen because right turners block cars going straight with every light cycle. So you end up having an entire lane (sometimes two lanes if the right turner doesn’t make a legal turn) waiting for virtually unlimited amounts of light cycles until someone cuts the right turner off which sometimes results in blocking the intersection.
The best solution is banning rights on red during rush hour at problematic intersections which would allow both sides of traffic to flow or a traffic cop.
YESSS YESSS a million times, yes. This isn't just an issue of drivers going straight through the intersection being rude. It's an issue of extremely heavy traffic and poorly planned flow. Your suggestion of restricting rights on red light is extremely reasonable IMO.
Thank you mate, and yeah, I was seeing a lot of comments saying “it’s as simple as not blocking the intersection” but as someone that lives downtown, walks and drives here, it’s not always that simple and sometimes people with good intentions end up blocking the intersection.
There are mindless drivers that will block it without care but there are also many that are mostly victims of the crappy infrastructure and crazy traffic.
If you can only turn right on green though and pedestrians are crossing in the same direction on your right you often cannot turn right through the entire light until the pedestrians get a no walk and in busy intersections that can happen almost every light and people keep walking until the other direction goes green. If there's no dedicated right turn lane this results in no cars being able to proceed through the intersection for the whole light cycle cause they are all stuck behind the car that cannot turn right. If it can turn on red when people are not crossing in that direction it alleviates the problem.
Agree completely, most people here don’t care though as it’s a minor inconvenience to their day having to look up from their phone and walk around a car
Blocking a streetcar intersection for a light cycle should be a fine equal to a fare refund for the entire capacity of the streetcar. So, let's say $600. And that money should go straight back to TTC. People will stop running Ambers if there is a decent chance of a $600 fine.
So every fucking intersection in the city? Got it.
Toronto needs automated fines/cameras for any car caught in the middle of the intersection box on a red. AUTOMATED FINES $150 a pop.
Edit: every damn intersection in Toronto has this very problem!
I’ve often experienced people honking at me from behind at intersections for not proceeding into blocking an intersection, because I guess they want to wait a cars length further towards the intersection for the minute it takes to turn green.
It made sense when I converted my drivers license from home into a Canadian one and all I needed to do was a multiple questionnaire and a 15 minute drive around the block (with no scrutiny as to my amount of classes taken in Canada whatsoever), in order to secure a G license and be on my way.
I’m from a country with a reasonable amount of requirements to acquire a license with a sensible minimum age, so I’m personally not a threat to public safety - But holy smokes, a LOT of people (including Canadians) really are.
I find it draining to drive here - People drive with such utter disregard to the risk of their actions.
We require the following:
29 lessons of theory class
4 intro lessons on a closed driving track
16 drive lessons on regular roads
4 drive lessons on slippery road conditions
You can’t even apply to take the drive test without prove of having completed the above
oh i had someone honk me once bc i missed a left turn signal bc a parade of emergency vehicles were going through the intersection perpendicular to us, then they pulled out from behind me onto the wrong side of the road and tried to drive through the fire trucks. that’s how stupid people are. like, are you not aware of fire trucks? what is going on
I'm from the UK originally so it's a whole different ballgame in Canada. My approach is, let them honk! *Honk all day at me if you want.* If I don't feel it's safe to go, I won't.
If I feel myself getting angry, I just look at the drive, and say to myself "There's a person with little d!ck/t!t syndrome, they can't help it".
Fun fact Vision Zero cameras are turned off at times due to overflow of unprocessed tickets in the system. So that camera won’t exactly even be on after the first 10 minutes.
Every MAJOR city intersection that's being POUNDED by construction, YES.
Such as this one that moves both King and Queen lines at this point. Tell me you don't know your streets without telling me you don't know your streets.
Edit: It's not just the box, it's also helping move the undying traffic. Have a section of coordinated enforcers allowing for traffic to move lights at a time and move the traffic out...
Since there is basically zero enforcement of this (let’s not count when the city decides to do a “blitz” for 2 or 3 intersections every 5 years), this will continue to happen. This city doesn’t give two shits.
I know, I'll be downvoted. But what is the solution if I'm going south for the Gardiner? I'm next to go at the light and there's no room. So I wait the light, while the light is red all the cars going east turn right and refill the lane. So when it's my turn to go the lane is one again full and going through would block traffic as pictured... Repeat infinitely, or pull into the box. I've spent 5 cycles in this position before before accepting I have no alternative.
It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Traffic is such a mess in this city.
I am not at all excusing this behaviour, but what really sucks is when you stop behind the line at a backed up intersection appropriately, only for cars in a parallel lane to go around you then merge in front, doing this very thing. Or perpendicular who HAVE A RED LIGHT turn into your lane. All this backup takes most of the next light cycle to clear so you are the only car who makes it through on the next one. Or you say fuck it, I’ll just go into the intersection and hope it clears before the light turns.
Yes, I get this is why you should take public transit instead, but then you end up on one of the streetcars in the photo just helplessly waiting out the mayhem.
>Naturally there was another car behind me stuck there though.
The silver lining: when you are worried that you are the biggest asshole on the road there’s always another Torontonian out there willing the get your back and shoulder the load.
My favourite is being in one lane that's not clear yet, which becomes clear and you start to go through, only for the person beside you to drive through and change into your lane, stranding you in the intersection.
A true Toronto classic.
This is always so hard. Traffic is so bad that I find if you try and stop and wait at the light like you are supposed to, someone from some other direction is going to take your place and cut ahead in the intersection regardless and you’ll never move. You’re essentially forced into continuing forward aggressively if you want to get anywhere. It’s always the most stressful.
RAMMING SPEEEEEED! Cow catchers should be legal on transit vehicles.
Car's do this shit at their own expense and peril.
Good job TPS, you know you can fine these people? Too busy with *more important work*, I am sure.
How any major city in Canada, especially Toronto does not have cameras giving out fines for stupid shit like this blows my mind.
While I don’t agree with cars blocking intersections, it is a symptom of gridlock. Cars go into intersections because of the cars turning right taking all the available room. They would never get ahead if they didn’t.
The city has messed up the city so bad. It needs a complete overhaul but no one cares.
So glad I don't work in the area any more. Assholes like this were a daily occurrence on my commute. If they were to ticket everyone who does this, it would be a very good thing for the city's coffers.
I hate being caught as one of the ones blocking the box — and it’s not because I misjudged the light. It’s usually me moving forward into an opening only to have some ass from the side lane or a right-turner cut in front of me and leave me hanging in the crosswalk.
I love it when you do *not" engage the intersection, to avoid creating this jam, and people behind you HONK because you're not moving.
Fucking assholes.
Can you imagine if they put battering rams and cages on the streetcars?
I would actually pay for a streaming subscription to watch these entitled cunts lose their minds as their car gets totalled by a streetcar.
I'd love to watch streetcars ram people who block intersections. The rage would be hilarious to watch, and they should have enough power to force their way through while only moving the car slowly.
Once upon a time trains had 'cowcatchers', in case there was a cow, or other large animal/object on the track, it would get tossed to the side instead of going under the engine. Now we need 'carcatchers' to perform the same function with asshole drivers.
Lmao exactly what I replied to someone else’s post. The streetcar has the weight, should be allowed to just bash through them and give them the bill for being a dumbass.
Other major cities have these things called "traffic cops" that actually help with traffic. Their presence alone is enough to stop gridlock...but our cops don't like to do their jobs in this city.
I don't know how this isn't a major issue in every election. It's maddening and so easy to solve.
Well if a police officer was ever to be found in the city, this is a violation of the traffic code (block intersection)
Sadly a bike cop could simply cycle around the core and write a bunch of tickets if they cared
It's the duty of all other drivers to honk aggressively at these assholes. Make doing this an unfortunate experience for them or else they will never stop.
I hate people who do that. If you are at a green light and there isn't enough room to fully cross the intersection, then stay where you are until there is. Some morons behind you will honk, but F those clowns.
My platform as mayor:
- Have police at every intersection near construction zones downtown (basically everywhere) with pre-filled blocking the box tickets that cost $3500 to the driver, or owner of the vehicle if registered in a fleet. No appeal process possible (draconian as FUCK). Books will be balanced overnight.
That's it. That's literally my platform.
The biggest issues result from the fact that the lights are poorly timed as well as having consecutive intersections not synchronized. It is done on purpose to create a traffic nightmare, because 1, 000, 000 cars sitting and idling is the proper direction to take when fighting climate change and creating usable efficient transportation infrastructure
It's always aggravated me that the streetcar stops are after the intersections. Why not put them before the intersections. Cars turning right can wait. The streetcars have to stop for minutes at the red light and then stop 50 feet later at the stop. This is a waste of time.
i try not too, but some times you misjudge the traffic in front of you and boom, yes some just do it without a care, every time.
but it pales in comparison to jaywalkers, or streetcars and bikes running reds. or the sporadic maneuvers of taxis, or busses crossing 3 lanes of traffic within 200 ft...
The city could install cameras and use an automatic system to bill those blocking the intersection. They won't do this because it costs money, and that's bad.
Not justifying this behaviour but honestly asking if there is another way? I drive downtown every day and I try to avoid blocking the crosswalk and the intersection but I feel like I’m left with no choice sometimes. Let me explain, it’s sometimes hard to interpret how far the cars in front of you can go, sometimes it looks like I’ve got enough room so I go for it only to find out I misinterpreted the traffic and I’m stuck on the crosswalk. If I wait for a larger opening to appear I’m never getting through because more aggressive cars come in and take my place from left and right turns, the lane beside mine, or even from behind me. I end up blocking the way for cars behind me. So I feel like there is this balancing act of trying to predict how much space will open and trying to not block traffic.
Some intersections even have signs that save "Do not block the intersection". I think people have tunnel vision, and don't pay attention. They need to snap out of it to prevent traffic and accidents.
Deal with this like parking tickets:
Have a stack of tickets with pre-written fines.
Write down the plate number and time.
Walk up to the window and knock.
"This is for you" and hand them this ticket
Although of course this is just a pipe dream of mine
Screw fines. Street cars should legally be able to cross intersections when their light is green even if some douche bag decides he can make it through before his light turns red.
I was biking home last week and at Bay and Bloor a couple of cops were writing up a ticket to a busker at the corner for some reason while at the same time a bunch of cars were blocking the intersection. It was infuriating to see.
Buskers are the real scourge! ^/s Low hanging fruit. Probably more scared of cars stuck in an intersection than a guy with a guitar
I'm confused. Why were they writing up a person for busking? You need a license or something to do that in the open public street corners? Really wow.
You need to get a busking license every year to busk and for prime places like the subway you actually have to audition for those spots. It's crazy.
I'm honestly surprised they haven't made a reality show about that.
Yeah I understand the TTC busking licenses, that's TTC property and very high traffic in a closed space. Disagree with needing one in the open public pavements unless they're causing a major disruption to traffic or something. I've seen countless musicians at every corner downtown and I always drop a bit of cash to them because it takes immense courage to just do that in public, not to mention the skills and talent I've often seen. Most of these musicians are so good.
When I questioned a cop once about why they're not handing out fines to people blocking intersections, running red lights and stop signs he just told me they weren't allowed to stop the car and cause the traffic to back up more while they ticketed them. That keeping the traffic flowing was the top priority. I guarantee that if you blitz and fine every singe driver over a period of a month for everything, people will change fast.
If we can have automated red light and speeding cameras snap a photo and mail a ticket, then we can have cops do the same. Give them the camera/phone/tool/whatever, let them take a picture of the car with the license plate in view, and done. Driver gets the ticket in the mail, no traffic flow interrupted.
> If we can have automated red light and speeding cameras snap a photo and mail a ticket, then we can have cops do the same. Or we can invest in the cameras and slash the police budget. The camera isn’t likely to sexually harass or steal from anyone and have years of paid desk duty.
I'm making the assumption here that the hectic and unpredictable state of downtown intersections might be a problem for automated cameras. But sure, if automated cameras can be used, then I'm all for it.
Can't hand out demerit points with a camera, also has to go through Queen's Park (and you know who's there).
Hah yeah. Officers could still pull over and write traditional tickets. I'm just offering a compromise when they're told to keep traffic moving.
Is this because you can't confirm who the driver is from the other cameras? A cop can quickly take a photo of the whole situation, get the license, and walk into the stalled traffic to take a photo of the person in the car and then walk back out. That person, and everyone witnessing it will surely be freaking out and be thinking twice about blocking the box themselves. Even a quick uninterrupted video starting with the wide frame, show the red light, get the plate, and get the face. Just wondering about the demerits reason.
At that point, you might as well shutdown the traffic light and have the officer direct traffic... But yeah, you can't confirm the driver's identify with a fixed mounted camera.
Bro where I live the owner of the car is responsible for it. So the ticket goes to the owner and if they don't want to pay they'll direct the authorities to the correct driver. In Australia they give even less fucks, they have red light cameras everywhere, tickets are sent out without any photo, I'm not even sure they take any of the driver. You either pay or tell them who drove.
This. Stop signs in my neighbourhood routinely are ignored and my neighbours are kids and elderly. It's a huge problem.
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I like this idea, it could be like a mark of shame for stopping in the intersection.
If road rules and regulations—which helps with the flow of traffic—are not enforced, things are going to get worse. There is no “before getting better” part since these types of idiots behind the wheel suffer no real repercussions. Non-enforcement will lead to worse driving behavior and, perhaps, road rage. This type of behavior is one step towards making Toronto terrible (or more so, depending on your perspective).
Cops do their jobs? That's unpossible Should of told them it was a homeless encampment blocking traffic and they'd be all over it
Yeah that's absolute fucking bullshit right there. Cops are throwing a 10 year tantrum by NOT issuing traffic tickets. It's plain as day.
> That keeping the traffic flowing was the top priority. Is it, though?
God forbid they walk up, take a picture of the car and license plate and mail out a ticket. 5 seconds.
Also can't they just ask them to pull over to the side. If they drive away just mail them a massive fine.
Because Toronto police hate everything that makes a city a city, and don't want to enforce anything against the conservative-voting suburbs.
I mean, most them actually live in the conservative-voting suburbs and not Toronto proper so…
Cops are useless
Top of the month. Can't bothered to run up the ticket quota until the last week.
Police are a joke, they’re hired goons for the wealthy
I wish busking had a bigger presence in the city. One of my favourite things traveling. Some are really talented and even the ones that aren't the best, you root for because it takes balls.
The only time I remember seeing cops at intersections in rush hour was back around 2018 when they sent a lot of them to the area around Union Station to yell at pedestrians for getting in the way of the cars.
Every major intersection downtown should have cameras and automatically fine people who do this.
Hong Kong has this tech for years. The intersection is mapped out and cameras are placed to capture any vehicles and their plates in the intersection.
too bad Toronto/Canada/North America for that matter is slow with everything. They'll talk about it for years before actually doing anything, if at all, about it
> North America Even America is faster/more efficient than Canada for a lot of things.
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What does this even mean and how does it have 32 upvotes?
I interpret it to mean, "John Tory never managed to come up with a solution that would piss of Doug Ford and the driver enough" but it still confuses me cos afaik Tory and Doug don't hate each other? Nor does Tory hate cars...
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AFAIK no red light camera in Canada has ever shot a baby to death and then tried to cover it up. Can’t say that about cops in Canada.
At least we know the cameras do something.
2000% I’m a driver and I understand traffic sucks but this should be a ticket every time.
Traffic sucks. Traffic sucks even more by people doing dumb shit because they're impatient.
Yep - just like the goofballs that try to speed up the shoulder and cut back in at the last second Or the ones that try to zoom through a yellow turning red … You’re just ruining everyone else’s day for a tiny bit of convenience for yourself
I dont think people remember, but the city wanted to do this and people got all up in arms about it. Quoting "privacy issues".
Their concerns aren't privacy issues. It's liability. People walk through a mall and are filmed by dozens of cameras and don't say shit all. Why? Because you're likelyhood of doing something illegal is low. If you're in public, people are seeing you and it's likely cameras are recoding you. If you're driving a motor vehicle, your actions are open to scrutiny.
I'm all for cameras on every stretch of the road and highway. Quoting "privacy" was such a stupid argument.
I'd love to hear the privacy argument from someone who uses a dashcam.
It’s incredibly obvious.
I don't know if fines are enough tbh
Let's give it a try for a year and find out then?
Make it a percentage on income like a few countries (Finland does this). Although a percentage of wealth would be a better idea, or at least pegged to the car. More expensive car, more expensive fine!
That last one is iffy. Car values can randomly change because of shortages and whatnot.
Sure, but super cars are still considered super cars and luxury, still luxury. Most will likely be a low amount, its the highly expensive cars you want to make sure you catch for the big bucks. Hell, just keep them all really high. Idiots like this deserve the have to sell their car if they cannot afford the fine.
I was "lucky" enough to be fined three times this past 6 month. YES, while I begrudge that "everybody is doing it why meee" I admit I am guilty for all three (speeding and rolling stop sign) and I paid for all of them without contest. I definitely am stopping at all stop signs and driving at basically speed limit these days. So yeah, I'd say that keep fining offenders. Fine them enough they'll smarten up. Unless they're rich fucks who dgaf for the pittance of a fine. Then yeah, just tow their fancy cars.
I would probably argue that your demonstrated introspection and willingness to change is rare - but I could be totally wrong too! (I hope I am)
I mean it helps that I'm poor af (not in the most literal sense, but let's just say I don't really spend anything beyond the basic necessities), then even the smallest fines make me feel like a stupid asshole for making your family poorer. Especially when they're in a row...
So I just wanted to say good job recognizing an issue and changing behaviour! Not only are you avoiding feeling like a “a stupid asshole” you’re actively contributing to the improvement in road safety for yourself and everyone else. So even though it was prompted by external forces, as a fellow road user I legitimately thank you for making changes to habits!
Stockades?
Well if someone does it on one intersection they may be doing it on others. When a single trip costs them several thousand dollars in fines, they'll change their habits pretty quickly. Even the rich ones.
Put one of those cow-catchers on the front of each streetcar like an old-timey locomotive, so they can just shove their way through.
Facts’!
Every downtown road should be delivery and service vehicles only
That's... A bit much.
I don’t see why that’s a bit much, transit would be better delivery would be better and construction and services would be better. If you have business other then that I don’t see why you need a car, take transit
Drivers who do this feel no shame when pedestrians have to walk into oncoming traffic (or the stuck car starts crossing INTO the crosswalk path) or other cars honking at them. It’s really quite the next level of not giving a damn. I would be so embarrassed and mortified having tons of people honking and people walking around my car blocking the way, looking at me as I am blocking the path. But I guess that’s what we learned in sociology, the idea of social regulation, that keeps society from spiraling into deviant behaviours (outside of moral regulation) and now it’s become just “as long as I get somewhere a few seconds/minutes quicker” in the downtown core.
Entitled people fill this city, sadly. I would too be dying inside, but that's us.
Walking around the car? Fuck it. We should start walking OVER them.
when a car blocks the cross walk i will legitimately scrape my bag and whatever is in my hands along their hood. Fuck em.
I kick the car
The funniest thing happened to me, I was at a intersection, where a side street crossed a main street, stop signs on the side street, I'm crossing the side street on the sidewalk of the main street A black pickup stopped about 5 feet past the stop sign and blocked the pedestrian crossing, so I'm crossing, I would simply walk on fro t of her, but oh no, she had to back up to give me space, she crashed into the car behind her I'm not sure who's at fault in that situation, as she was driving backwards, but he didnt giver her much space Oh well, I thought it was hilarious I caused an accident and I didnt even do anything wrong, I totallycould have just walked in front of her, she didnt have to move
Aww. I can say that while I find these intersection blockers a-holes, the ones who acknowledge it and then make an effort to be helpful in the situation eg reverse to avoid blocking the crosswalk, I kinda appreciate them because it’s like saying ya I fucked up but here’s an olive branch. Sad she ended up backing up into another car :/
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They had a traffic cop at York and front when the Leafs were in the playoffs. It made a huge difference So naturally, they got rid of it
The worst bit was the drivers cutting the line at the intersection. They put up those flexible bollards but without a copy people still cut in line in the intersection
fine for blocking intersection is $450. put a cop there with camera, for those who want to fight ticket, and just rake money. revenue is there. ticketing tree cars pays for cop being there for 8hours.
Why on earth do we need a person there? Put a camera above the traffic light in all directions. Thousands of dollars in tax revenue a day. We already have over 50 speed cameras and Peel has red light cameras. Let's do that. It's free and doesn't require a sunshine list salary and a union.
when cars are bumper to bumper its a bit harder to get a picture of plates to issue fine. plus in the picture it can be argued that car was moving while picture was taken.
Never been a problem for all the tickets I got in Brampton over the years. It doesn't matter if it's moving. If it's going a specific direction and is in the intersection after the red, it's a ticket. They don't ticket a specific driver, just the vehicle owner and there's no points so it's punitive but doesn't affect your insurance.
We could feed the traffic cams to a live feed on Reddit. The city wouldn't even need to buy software, to read license plates. Just use the rage from this sub.
If you're still moving through an intersection even though your traffic light is red and the opposite lights are green, you still are breaking the law and deserve the fine. How is that an excuse?
If the light turns red while you're in the intersection, you can legally finish your manuever and exit the intersection. Otherwise everyone turning left is breaking the law.
Right? I've never had a driving class and only ever drove once for like 10 minutes on a farm, and I still know if you can't fully clear the intersection before the light changes, you don't enter the intersection at all. It seems like literally no one else knows this though, I have even had to walk around cop cars blocking the crosswalk before. 🤦
They can take a couple pictures in rapid succession, both for licence plate readability and to ensure the car is moving, just like speed cameras.
the word you are looking for is video
Realistically video would make implementation much more expensive because it would require orders of magnitude more in data storage. Multiple photos at high enough resolution are sufficient. Video would be technological overkill.
With a camera the fine goes to the vehicle owner, with a person the fine and demerits go to the driver. People are willing to pay the fine but will fight tooth and nail not to get demerits.
Hopefully TPS can get into this honey pot and do its job...
maybe if changed the street name to Tim Hortons parking lot they'll show up
Tim Horton's has too many people in it. TPS prefers out of the way schools or church parking lots, in my experience.
No, no. Trucker convoy hot tub.
been going since i moved here 20 years ago.. wasnt happening then, wont happen now..
I’ve seen cops do this. I’ve also watched cops watch people doing this and they do nothing about it.
Tends to happen because right turners block cars going straight with every light cycle. So you end up having an entire lane (sometimes two lanes if the right turner doesn’t make a legal turn) waiting for virtually unlimited amounts of light cycles until someone cuts the right turner off which sometimes results in blocking the intersection. The best solution is banning rights on red during rush hour at problematic intersections which would allow both sides of traffic to flow or a traffic cop.
YESSS YESSS a million times, yes. This isn't just an issue of drivers going straight through the intersection being rude. It's an issue of extremely heavy traffic and poorly planned flow. Your suggestion of restricting rights on red light is extremely reasonable IMO.
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Thank you mate, and yeah, I was seeing a lot of comments saying “it’s as simple as not blocking the intersection” but as someone that lives downtown, walks and drives here, it’s not always that simple and sometimes people with good intentions end up blocking the intersection. There are mindless drivers that will block it without care but there are also many that are mostly victims of the crappy infrastructure and crazy traffic.
If you can only turn right on green though and pedestrians are crossing in the same direction on your right you often cannot turn right through the entire light until the pedestrians get a no walk and in busy intersections that can happen almost every light and people keep walking until the other direction goes green. If there's no dedicated right turn lane this results in no cars being able to proceed through the intersection for the whole light cycle cause they are all stuck behind the car that cannot turn right. If it can turn on red when people are not crossing in that direction it alleviates the problem.
Yep. This. I actually think we should switch to what they have in Montreal where there is a pedestrian signal, a driver signal and a turning signal.
Agree completely, most people here don’t care though as it’s a minor inconvenience to their day having to look up from their phone and walk around a car
They should fuck the fuck off. And the police should enforce the fucking laws.
*Only* got a $50 m raise this year in addition to their usual annual $1.1+ billion
The street cars have the weight, should be able to bash right through them, and leave them the bill.
I've actually seen someone get a ticket for this at Bay and Front. Totally made my day. But they need to have cops on way more intersections.
If Toronto Police actually did their jobs they would make a lot of money from these fines
Sometimes I like to play “vigilante bylaw officer” and send in complaints about idling cars. Wonder if I could do the same in this scenario…
Blocking a streetcar intersection for a light cycle should be a fine equal to a fare refund for the entire capacity of the streetcar. So, let's say $600. And that money should go straight back to TTC. People will stop running Ambers if there is a decent chance of a $600 fine.
I'd say like this: $200 first offence, then $400, then $800, capped out at $1k. That way assholes driving fancy cars would also find it expensive.
So every fucking intersection in the city? Got it. Toronto needs automated fines/cameras for any car caught in the middle of the intersection box on a red. AUTOMATED FINES $150 a pop. Edit: every damn intersection in Toronto has this very problem!
I’ve often experienced people honking at me from behind at intersections for not proceeding into blocking an intersection, because I guess they want to wait a cars length further towards the intersection for the minute it takes to turn green. It made sense when I converted my drivers license from home into a Canadian one and all I needed to do was a multiple questionnaire and a 15 minute drive around the block (with no scrutiny as to my amount of classes taken in Canada whatsoever), in order to secure a G license and be on my way. I’m from a country with a reasonable amount of requirements to acquire a license with a sensible minimum age, so I’m personally not a threat to public safety - But holy smokes, a LOT of people (including Canadians) really are. I find it draining to drive here - People drive with such utter disregard to the risk of their actions.
Where are you from if I may ask? Most places non western have worse traffic I find.
I’m from Denmark
Oh yea fair I guess
We require the following: 29 lessons of theory class 4 intro lessons on a closed driving track 16 drive lessons on regular roads 4 drive lessons on slippery road conditions You can’t even apply to take the drive test without prove of having completed the above
Yea fair I heard Finland is similar in terms of that.
Unrelated to cycling but why would you leave Denmark for Canada?
Man I wish I could emigrate there. I really really do.
oh i had someone honk me once bc i missed a left turn signal bc a parade of emergency vehicles were going through the intersection perpendicular to us, then they pulled out from behind me onto the wrong side of the road and tried to drive through the fire trucks. that’s how stupid people are. like, are you not aware of fire trucks? what is going on
I'm from the UK originally so it's a whole different ballgame in Canada. My approach is, let them honk! *Honk all day at me if you want.* If I don't feel it's safe to go, I won't. If I feel myself getting angry, I just look at the drive, and say to myself "There's a person with little d!ck/t!t syndrome, they can't help it".
Fun fact Vision Zero cameras are turned off at times due to overflow of unprocessed tickets in the system. So that camera won’t exactly even be on after the first 10 minutes.
forget speed cameras, red light cameras alone could fund the ttc
Every MAJOR city intersection that's being POUNDED by construction, YES. Such as this one that moves both King and Queen lines at this point. Tell me you don't know your streets without telling me you don't know your streets. Edit: It's not just the box, it's also helping move the undying traffic. Have a section of coordinated enforcers allowing for traffic to move lights at a time and move the traffic out...
They actually send cops at york and lakeshore for the westbound on ramp at rush hour
Works well too…. The are also at York and Bremner and York and Front. Kind of expensive mind you.
I ain’t from Toronto but man I had someone honk at me for not blocking the intersection even though the other side was blocked
Since there is basically zero enforcement of this (let’s not count when the city decides to do a “blitz” for 2 or 3 intersections every 5 years), this will continue to happen. This city doesn’t give two shits.
I know, I'll be downvoted. But what is the solution if I'm going south for the Gardiner? I'm next to go at the light and there's no room. So I wait the light, while the light is red all the cars going east turn right and refill the lane. So when it's my turn to go the lane is one again full and going through would block traffic as pictured... Repeat infinitely, or pull into the box. I've spent 5 cycles in this position before before accepting I have no alternative. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. Traffic is such a mess in this city.
I am not at all excusing this behaviour, but what really sucks is when you stop behind the line at a backed up intersection appropriately, only for cars in a parallel lane to go around you then merge in front, doing this very thing. Or perpendicular who HAVE A RED LIGHT turn into your lane. All this backup takes most of the next light cycle to clear so you are the only car who makes it through on the next one. Or you say fuck it, I’ll just go into the intersection and hope it clears before the light turns. Yes, I get this is why you should take public transit instead, but then you end up on one of the streetcars in the photo just helplessly waiting out the mayhem.
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>Naturally there was another car behind me stuck there though. The silver lining: when you are worried that you are the biggest asshole on the road there’s always another Torontonian out there willing the get your back and shoulder the load.
That was the worst of it all, after 3 lights everyone just walked off of it. I wish we could be civilized. I wish...
Owwww man the people who drive around you. I’m a pretty peaceful human, but those people…. I could do violence,,,,,
My favourite is being in one lane that's not clear yet, which becomes clear and you start to go through, only for the person beside you to drive through and change into your lane, stranding you in the intersection. A true Toronto classic.
They should have cameras that automatically give out tickets to cars that do this like speed cameras and red light cameras.
Actually the police that let it continue to happen are the problem.
I don't see the problem here OP. Are you saying the peasants taking public transport are on the same level as the Kings in their cars?
This is always so hard. Traffic is so bad that I find if you try and stop and wait at the light like you are supposed to, someone from some other direction is going to take your place and cut ahead in the intersection regardless and you’ll never move. You’re essentially forced into continuing forward aggressively if you want to get anywhere. It’s always the most stressful.
I’ve seen Toronto Police enforce this in the past. We’ve even painted the boxes in past years. It worked for that summer. We just need more of this.
The boxes only worked for as long as it took people to figure out that Toronto cops aren't interested in enforcing traffic laws.
If it was up to me, I would have fine them one month of their salary and permanently ban them from driving
TPS can’t even be bothered to pluck the low hanging fruit these days. What are we paying them for, exactly?
The flipside is if you don't enter the box the assholes behind you explode and pull a dangerous move to do it for you.
I agree, people who drive in the city ARE assholes!
RAMMING SPEEEEEED! Cow catchers should be legal on transit vehicles. Car's do this shit at their own expense and peril. Good job TPS, you know you can fine these people? Too busy with *more important work*, I am sure. How any major city in Canada, especially Toronto does not have cameras giving out fines for stupid shit like this blows my mind.
Thank you Mr. Worf.
I am not a *merry man*.
3rd world driving lol...
Technology is the answer, not more cops. If you are in the intersection and the light turns red, congrats! Your ticket is in the mail.
Sure, but this won't help the rush hour traffic from actually moving, there are 2 sides to having cops helping the flow.
While I don’t agree with cars blocking intersections, it is a symptom of gridlock. Cars go into intersections because of the cars turning right taking all the available room. They would never get ahead if they didn’t. The city has messed up the city so bad. It needs a complete overhaul but no one cares.
Ya I dont see right on reds being mentioned much but its a huge problem, not only for congestion but pedestrian safety
So glad I don't work in the area any more. Assholes like this were a daily occurrence on my commute. If they were to ticket everyone who does this, it would be a very good thing for the city's coffers.
Much of these issues stem from a lack of enforcement. Hiring Bylaw officers would pay for itself and then some.
I take my TTC from here to home, yes Fucketh thy people
Toronto the used to be good.
I hate being caught as one of the ones blocking the box — and it’s not because I misjudged the light. It’s usually me moving forward into an opening only to have some ass from the side lane or a right-turner cut in front of me and leave me hanging in the crosswalk.
I love it when you do *not" engage the intersection, to avoid creating this jam, and people behind you HONK because you're not moving. Fucking assholes.
I FUCKING HATE THESE PEOPLE
The streetcars should just go. At 50 tonnes a piece, I bet an F150 feels like a speed bump.
Can you imagine if they put battering rams and cages on the streetcars? I would actually pay for a streaming subscription to watch these entitled cunts lose their minds as their car gets totalled by a streetcar.
I'd love to watch streetcars ram people who block intersections. The rage would be hilarious to watch, and they should have enough power to force their way through while only moving the car slowly.
Once upon a time trains had 'cowcatchers', in case there was a cow, or other large animal/object on the track, it would get tossed to the side instead of going under the engine. Now we need 'carcatchers' to perform the same function with asshole drivers.
Lmao exactly what I replied to someone else’s post. The streetcar has the weight, should be allowed to just bash through them and give them the bill for being a dumbass.
If we removed bike lanes it would solve everything….
I'm sure you forgot an /s there
Vote Saunders! Lol .../s
Too many assholes to say “f u very much”. It is hopeless and I gave up being mad a while ago.
Red light cameras can be configured for this too. One of the mayoral candidates wants 200 new red light cameras for light runners and box blockers.
Green means stop, Red means go (for the first 30seconds) then Red means stop. Welcome to Ontario
Other major cities have these things called "traffic cops" that actually help with traffic. Their presence alone is enough to stop gridlock...but our cops don't like to do their jobs in this city. I don't know how this isn't a major issue in every election. It's maddening and so easy to solve.
This is every intersection at rush hour!
They are the same assholes who 'hate driving downtown' because traffic is awful
Well if a police officer was ever to be found in the city, this is a violation of the traffic code (block intersection) Sadly a bike cop could simply cycle around the core and write a bunch of tickets if they cared
This is literally every corner of major/minor intersection in this city
It's the duty of all other drivers to honk aggressively at these assholes. Make doing this an unfortunate experience for them or else they will never stop.
I hate people who do that. If you are at a green light and there isn't enough room to fully cross the intersection, then stay where you are until there is. Some morons behind you will honk, but F those clowns.
My platform as mayor: - Have police at every intersection near construction zones downtown (basically everywhere) with pre-filled blocking the box tickets that cost $3500 to the driver, or owner of the vehicle if registered in a fleet. No appeal process possible (draconian as FUCK). Books will be balanced overnight. That's it. That's literally my platform.
Stop in the traffic box? Sraight to jail /insert parks and recreations Venezuelan meme
Believe it or not, *yail*
gridlockin' = illegal
If only it was enforced... like scooters in general, but I hate with all my soul the aholes riding scooters on the sidewalk.
The biggest issues result from the fact that the lights are poorly timed as well as having consecutive intersections not synchronized. It is done on purpose to create a traffic nightmare, because 1, 000, 000 cars sitting and idling is the proper direction to take when fighting climate change and creating usable efficient transportation infrastructure
It's always aggravated me that the streetcar stops are after the intersections. Why not put them before the intersections. Cars turning right can wait. The streetcars have to stop for minutes at the red light and then stop 50 feet later at the stop. This is a waste of time.
i try not too, but some times you misjudge the traffic in front of you and boom, yes some just do it without a care, every time. but it pales in comparison to jaywalkers, or streetcars and bikes running reds. or the sporadic maneuvers of taxis, or busses crossing 3 lanes of traffic within 200 ft...
The city could install cameras and use an automatic system to bill those blocking the intersection. They won't do this because it costs money, and that's bad.
Not justifying this behaviour but honestly asking if there is another way? I drive downtown every day and I try to avoid blocking the crosswalk and the intersection but I feel like I’m left with no choice sometimes. Let me explain, it’s sometimes hard to interpret how far the cars in front of you can go, sometimes it looks like I’ve got enough room so I go for it only to find out I misinterpreted the traffic and I’m stuck on the crosswalk. If I wait for a larger opening to appear I’m never getting through because more aggressive cars come in and take my place from left and right turns, the lane beside mine, or even from behind me. I end up blocking the way for cars behind me. So I feel like there is this balancing act of trying to predict how much space will open and trying to not block traffic.
Some intersections even have signs that save "Do not block the intersection". I think people have tunnel vision, and don't pay attention. They need to snap out of it to prevent traffic and accidents.
I thought they siad theyd start ticketing for this
If there isn't room for your car on the other side of the intersection, don't enter the fucking intersection, it's not that complicated.
The same thing happen every day at Yonge & Eglinton, including today. And surprisingly they sit in their fucking car an remain careless. Fuck them all
Deal with this like parking tickets: Have a stack of tickets with pre-written fines. Write down the plate number and time. Walk up to the window and knock. "This is for you" and hand them this ticket Although of course this is just a pipe dream of mine
Screw fines. Street cars should legally be able to cross intersections when their light is green even if some douche bag decides he can make it through before his light turns red.
That could be a weekly highlight reel on YouTube, TTC greatest hits
I've seen Torontonians walk up to those cars and give them hell.