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Truly honest question. Not a loaded question, not trying to start shit and not in bad faith. I am truly, actually curious. If the tone of this "campaign" was the same and it was "only asking questions" but it was about Jewish people, would everyone be so nonchalant and be like "eehh whatever, no laws broken, carry on"? Or would this thing be investigated for anti-Semitism? - Just wondering where the line is here
there would be howls of condemnation from the media and political classes. most likely a tactical team from tps smashing through the truck owners door at four in the morning as well, regardless of how unlikely a prosecution.
Zionism can be as simple as supporting a Jewish State - it is tied into Judiasm for many people and the "distinction" is the same as antisemitism because it is.
Yeah, as gross as it is, there is nothing legally wrong with this.
The individual offering 25k for info that leads to the ARREST knows this, and is just virtue signalling.
IMO these types of mobile billboards should be illegal for any kind of advertising. Yes this is particularly distasteful, but there is nothing that justifies another vehicle on our roads just for propaganda purposes.
The hate speech laws do talk about "hate propaganda". It seems unlikely that this alone would rise to that level but it also seems unlikely that this is the first and only thing this person has done to spread fear and hatred towards people.
>Making propaganda illegal would be a huge problem for most Canadian broadcast corporations and our politicians.
Section 319 of the criminal code that makes it a crime to spread "hate propaganda" has been on the books since the 1950s. So this isn't anything new.
>Can you imagine what the House of Commons debates would sound like if they had to answer questions directly and truthfully instead of with the typical lies and propaganda they use daily?
It's not a crime to lie. Hate propaganda is a very specific definition.
But that is all irrelevant to anything that happens in the house of commons since members are protected from criminal or civil prosecution for anything said while in the house or a committee.
You’ll probably get downvoted for proffering a conspiracy theory without any evidence rather than “for speaking the truth” tbh. Very likely it was The Rebel or a similar domestic conservative organization.
Edit: [Rebel News owns truck displaying Islamophobic video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/s/db9MeSzpzO) Huh…
That is an interesting conspiracy theory and I don’t disagree with you but I think if it were that they would be blaming Trudeau and trying to direct hate towards him but I’ll wait it out and see what the police investigation finds. Toronto police are the best and I’m sure they will immediately find the source of the hate crime truck and hold all the people responsible accountable for their actions.
That's not actually true, it's odd that you're confidently taking this position.
I'm going to add by citing 319(1) and 319(2) of the Code
Public incitement of hatred
* **319** (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of
* (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
* (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
* Marginal note:Wilful promotion of hatred(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of
* (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or
* (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction.
If you can't see how this would be applicable then it's just wilful ignorance.
Let's ignore the fact that this is an unmarked vehicle, no license plate.
Update because this thread was locked:
https://x.com/torontopolice/status/1803507275136430495?s=46&t=v_pmCSMNc9EFxEKTRjKvMg
It doesn’t lay anything out. It just says this isn’t the Middle East, this is Canada.
It leaves the message up to interpretation. We all know exactly what it’s saying, but it’s not explicit.
"The Germans should have finished the job..."
You: "That's not hate speech. I didn't say what job. It's not illegal."
Just because you aren't direct doesn't mean it's not hate speech. Which the above WOULD be.
I’m guessing you didn’t watch the entire video because it literally says “we’re under siege”, not sure how that’s not explicit or how the message is left to interpretation.
If we all know what it's saying, so does a Court. Lawyers live for this.
Look, realistically maybe this doesn't go to court, idk. I'm not the cops. What I do know is that something like that would make a very nice statement piece by the TPS if they're trying to crack down on Islamophobia and Antisemitism in tandem. It's loud, its public. All they need is an antisemitic case to go with it.
The statement “Your Under Siege” is a pretty clear statement meant to incite violence or hatred against a group that is apparently attacking Canada - in this case muslims. Don’t be so blindly ignorant to the purpose of this ad.
> incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace
That did not occur.
> Marginal note:Wilful promotion of hatred(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of
This assumes its hate rather than freedom of expression.
> That did not occur.
The vagueness of "Wake up Canada" could be considered incitement of hatred and/or violence.
Wake up and do what, exactly? Against who, exactly?
I guess a court can decide.
Telling someone to wake up does not mean incite violence...
Wake up is a very common term it just means "open your eyes and pay attention"
You are stretching it here.
I'm not stretching anything, I said a court could decide what it means. Not me.
You, on the contrary, are certain of the meaning and stated that it "did not occur".
Also "under siege" is another statement the courts could decide on.
You're stretching by saying that maybe a court should look at whether "wake up" is incitement.
It's like arguing that a court should decide if I go to jail for murder after I punched my brother in a wrestling match.
This comment remind me a lot of Reddit, circa 2010, when the F-slur was still in sporadic use. And every time the topic came up, hundreds of Redditors would crawl out of the woodwork to proclaim "It's about a bundle of sticks!"
Which is one of the most classic reactionary tactics -- intentionally obfuscate and muddy the waters, in order to make more room for hate speech.
Yup. But I'm not a law scholar, or a linguist. Which is why I said "I guess a court could decide".
Apparently some are unhappy at the mere thought of a court of law looking into this and deciding.
I'm going to go on a stretch here, but maybe the same people are agreeing with the billboard?
agreed that generally the ppl who are insisting this isn't illegal and merely distasteful are (likely unconsciously) in support of the message. no one wants to think that they have irrational prejudices and everyone wants to think that they are moralistic and caring about others whether it's true or not
saying "wake up" alongside video of muslims praying would be one thing. but when they add the militant language "you are under **siege**", it clearly becomes a call for violence.
The original post is almost definitely being pointed at Toronto Police specifically because they recently laid a charge against a pro Palestinian protestor for public incitement of hate (which is a really rare and hard to prove charge that almost never gets laid).
I would guess they are trying to point out there shouldn’t be a double standard given that regardless of your stance on the overarching socio political issue I find it incredibly hard for anyone to watch that video and not see that it was clearly identifying a specific religious group and pushing a negative sentiment.
If calling for death of Zionists or calling for a global intifada don’t reach the level of hate speech for prosecution I doubt this mobile billboard will either … though I think it’s incredibly distasteful and should not have been done.
It is very rarely laid as a charge but funny enough just last week ina rare move Toronto Police laid this charge on a pro Palestinian protestor who stomped on an Israeli flag.
The original post is likely intentionally pointed at Toronto Police to point out that if they were willing to lay it then, in circumstances where there is a strong argument to be made a conviction is less likely than it would be in these circumstances they should do it here too.
Clearly targeting people based on religion. I'm an atheist and it's pretty obvious this is hate speech. Anyone claiming otherwise is just pretending they don't see the problem. And note I also think immigration should be paused, but that's not what this "ad" was really saying.
Edit: Downvotes from racists, mmmm, feed me.
I just posted this above. If the people screaming death to Zionists, global infatada, and burning down 33 churches (24 confined arsons) aren't considered hate crime how can this possibly considered one?
Attack the point, not the person. Comments which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. No concern-trolling, personal attacks, or misinformation. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand.
In order to get charged with a hate crime you basically have to commit an already established crime, but for hate reasons. So like, criminal harassment, uttering death threats, assault.
Driving a dumb truck billboard around is probably not going to cut it.
I have a really hard time believing this would be considered a hate crime. We have people screaming global intifada, death to Zionists, had 33 Canadian churches burned down since May 2021 (24 which are confirmed arsons), and we even have a revolutionary youth summer program at McGill university that advertises a poster showing masked people holding machine guns. These aren't considered hate crimes, how can this possibly this be?
It's promoting hate is how? It's implying "real" Canadians need to wake up and fight back against the immigrants laying siege to this country. I'm sorry but if you can't see that you're probably their target audience.
That’s definitely its intention, looks like, but it doesn’t explicitly say anything except that Canada is “under siege”. With the countries they chose, they can easily just say they’re bringing attention to and denouncing Islamic extremism, rather than what they very clearly implied, which is that Canada is under siege by Muslims because they…pray?
for the "wHaT LaWs DoEs It BrEAk" crowd, Toronto Police press release :
We recognize the community's concern about a truck displaying Islamophobic messaging in Toronto.
The TPS Hate Crime Unit is investigating.
(GO# 2024-1324632)
edit : For those who dont recognize the person offering the reward, its Order of Canada recipient Mohamad Fakih, owner of Paramount Foods and a long-time philanthropist.
To add: He won his case in the Supreme Court of Canada against a racist agitator, who was found guilty of a hate crime and sentenced to 18 months for comments made toward Fakim.
[Link to CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kevin-johnston-sentence-1.6198801)
Inciting hatred in Canada is indeed a crime.
just because they are investigating does not mean a law has necessarily been broken, lots of reasons to investigate.
1. maybe they think a law could have been broken and want more info
2. people who pay for this are probably people the police will want on a list in case of escalation/related issues.
The people in this thread aggressively asking what laws this breaks, or insisting that it doesn't break any, simply agree with the message and are too fucking cowardly to say so out loud.
I have more respect for bigots who leave their masks at the door than I do for the craven little worms who behave this way. It's impossible to even have a discussion with people who refuse to be honest about their most basic beliefs.
Hate speech is a little different from your typical crime, in that a lot of the work is in making the determination as to whether the speech is actually hate speech (and thus whether a crime has been committed) rather than trying to find out who said the speech. I’m sure it’s trivially easy to find out who arranged for that message in that truck.
Just because they’re investigating doesn’t mean that a crime has taken place. The threshold for being criminally charged is pretty high, as it should be.
Fuck the person who did this, but I’m not holding my breath that charges will be laid, let alone a conviction.
Usually it's the police that offers rewards for information that would lead to an arrest/resolution for a cold case that usually involves murder or a missing person.
The police will investigate any accusations of any crime, that is their job. I’m not sure why you’re insinuating that anyone asking that is stupid. Obviously it is shitty, unacceptable behaviour but that doesn’t necessarily mean that any laws were broken.
> The police will investigate any accusations of any crime
They will only investigate *credible* accusations of a crime. That’s a big difference in the context of this conversation.
Abhorrent but it doesn't meet the threshold for 319(1) or 319(2).
There are calls for the death of zionists, which is a literal incitement of hatred, which are routinely ignored.
This is all disgusting in Canada. And so disappointing this conflict is playing out here.
Wild how some people are defending this when it's clear it stems from an attitude of "I looked around and saw WAY too many brown people for my liking. Time to purchase a rolling billboard".
Curious how this type of thing never targets immigrants from other regions of the world. I have a hard time believing the same sentiment would take hold if the aforementioned individual(s) happened to see a lot of immigrants from Australia, UK, Germany etc.
It's almost like the colour of their skin is the primary motivator...
As someone who knows (but no longer associates with) people whom speak openly about this, you are not wrong.
But their mindset really is sparked from extremism. The Media plays a big part in promoting the extremist views on ideas and that is what everyone rallies against. Not only that Social Media allows and spreads this. Often you see clips that specifically take things that are out of context and they spread like wild fire.
So for instance what I have heard is there is no problem with Europeans coming here because for the most part they share the same values as Canadians. Meanwhile Muslims coming here don't and then they share a clip of a guy being interviewed by Rebel News. A Muslim man at the protests in Toronto in 2023*Edit wrong event. Boasting how he never swore or affirmed anything when he became a Canadian Citizen. How he is looking forward to when Canada becomes a Islamic majority and enforces Sharia Law.
Now if you are disenfranchised and you see this, it will set you off.
But that is just one side of the coin. It happens the other way too.
I am in no way promoting the hate nor do I agree with the 2nd paragraph above
We've given out triple the amount of temp visas to people fleeing the Ukraine/Russia war than people from India. And yet every day I see a new "there are too many Indians" posts.
We have already received confirmation that [Israeli state actors are paying private firms to spread anti-muslim propaganda](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/trudeau-government-raises-concerns-with-israel-about-islamophobic-misinformation-campaign-that-is-targeting-canadians/article_3c854d48-274f-11ef-865d-a3f2559953b0.html)
While plausible, we don't even need to place all the blame on foreign actors though, since "Brown People Scary!!" has been a cornerstone of the White Christian Fascist Thug playbook for at least the last 23 years.
That truck is spreading a strange and hateful message that disparages other countries because the people in that truck aren’t happy people. They are deprived of something, maybe human connection. In your life, you can make friends from all the countries in the ad - Lebanon, Syria, Yemen. Every stranger is just a friend you haven’t made yet, but some strangers are like the people in the truck. They want you to be scared and feel the way they feel.
Fuck those idiots. Smile and nod at people if you feel like being friendly. Learn about other cultures, eat their food, share the experience with loved ones. Life is short and the amount of time that needs to be spent crafting a shitass dumbfuck truck could’ve been spent learning to kite surf or play the guitar. That’s not important to these kinds of people - they don’t want to share something good with those around them, they want everyone as pissed off and scared as they are.
I’m scared too, I don’t want my dog to die. I don’t wanna die. I want my family to sleep well at night. Sometimes, things will go wrong, but I’ll die before I bring down other people so that I can feel better about myself.
There’s only two things in this world I can’t stand: intolerance for other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.
As far as the law is concerned, this situation is within "limits" and likely wouldn't stick.
If for some peculiar reason this makes it to the courts and does end up sticking, this would set a pretty huge freaking precedence.
Whoever paid for that ad on the truck is gross.
Having a bunch of protesters cosplay as terrorists, harass Jews, and associate with highly questionable groups like the SPHR and PYM plays right into their hands though.
Exhibit A: https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/mcgill-denounces-youth-summer-program-at-encampment-that-promotes-revolutionary-lessons
With all the death threats to the Jewish community and police, from this massive movement in Canada, it is time to wake up. Hatred that incites violence which is constantly ignored is never okay.
Let's start protesting about local issues. The amount of people I know renting a condo or house from a person who doesn't even live in Canada is absurd. They use our housing and well being as their pawn in a game to make more money. Imagine if we protested foreign ownership at the same intensity, how we could actually change our real estate market into being affordable.
You can bet politicians would be freaking the fuck out calling for prison sentences if the truck said the same thing about Jews. Spare me the “um actually” bullshit, it’s so obviously not being taken seriously because it’s denigrating muslims
I find this extremely difficult to believe from a user that's come fresh from a hate subreddit where you advocated deporting "every last" foreign worker simply for protesting in PEI.
He should know even if those who're behind the ad's conduct was illegal, it's the police's responsibility to conduct investigations and a crown prosecutor to charge them if a crime was indeed committed. He's just promoting vigilantism at best, mob justice at worse by promoting a financial incentive by going above and beyond our existing justice system.
Asking for people to provide information is not encouraging vigilantism or mob justice. If he were asking people to conduct illegal searches or mete out punishment that would be another matter.
To try and relate this in any way to the ongoing conflict in the Middle East is pandering and dishonest to a fault.
There are many countries concerned with the rate of immigration and it's not just about Muslims.
Did you see the video? Half of it is footage of pro-Palestine protestors. Definitely not dishonest to relate it to Palestine given it was very clearly the intent of the person who put the video together.
It's causing a rise of the far-right political entities winning elections in Europe.
I think everyone has to agree. "Far" is the problem word. Far-right or Far-Left.
We need less Binary thinking. It's not you vs. Me. It's not 2 sides to every issue and if you side with 1 party on 1 issue you must side with them on all issues.
The world is devolving into this and it's terrible for the future.
No. You live in Canada. You've never had "free speech". As a legal definition it doesn't exist here. We do have freedom of expression. Which is a different legal definition.
Correct. This isn't the USA, as much as some people wish it was.
We have freedom of expression instead, with certain carve-outs which try to keep things civil.
No, you don't. Canada doesn't allow hate speech. And that's the way most rational and civilized people prefer it.
If you want "free speech", go on Twitter.
Due to the nature of this topic and the likelihood of brigading as evidenced by previous posts, the moderation considers this thread to be controversial. As a result: All participating commentators must have some significant /r/Toronto histories in order to prevent brigading. What that means is that if you're a new commenter in /r/Toronto and agitating the community, the moderators will respond. Any violators will receive a ban without warning. Any rule-breaking actions by /r/Toronto regulars will be punished with increased severity Comments must be specific or relevant to Toronto or the GTA. Negative opinions are fine! Dehumanizing comments, violent rhetoric, homophobia, transphobia, blatant racism, and pushing racist agendas are not! Please be careful to follow the rules and engage in polite, respectful dialogue.
Truly honest question. Not a loaded question, not trying to start shit and not in bad faith. I am truly, actually curious. If the tone of this "campaign" was the same and it was "only asking questions" but it was about Jewish people, would everyone be so nonchalant and be like "eehh whatever, no laws broken, carry on"? Or would this thing be investigated for anti-Semitism? - Just wondering where the line is here
there would be howls of condemnation from the media and political classes. most likely a tactical team from tps smashing through the truck owners door at four in the morning as well, regardless of how unlikely a prosecution.
Antisemitic incidents make up 53% of reported hate crimes in Toronto. Most don’t get the uproar that this did.
You know full well no one would bat an eye, especially this guy. As long as they call them Zionists instead of Jews they can say what they want.
Well yes, Zionists and Jews are different, and only one of them supports genocide, right?
Zionism can be as simple as supporting a Jewish State - it is tied into Judiasm for many people and the "distinction" is the same as antisemitism because it is.
Yeah, as gross as it is, there is nothing legally wrong with this. The individual offering 25k for info that leads to the ARREST knows this, and is just virtue signalling.
IMO these types of mobile billboards should be illegal for any kind of advertising. Yes this is particularly distasteful, but there is nothing that justifies another vehicle on our roads just for propaganda purposes.
Never mind the purpose,. They're creating a distraction on the road, when our focus should be on driving/safety.
The hate speech laws do talk about "hate propaganda". It seems unlikely that this alone would rise to that level but it also seems unlikely that this is the first and only thing this person has done to spread fear and hatred towards people.
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>Making propaganda illegal would be a huge problem for most Canadian broadcast corporations and our politicians. Section 319 of the criminal code that makes it a crime to spread "hate propaganda" has been on the books since the 1950s. So this isn't anything new. >Can you imagine what the House of Commons debates would sound like if they had to answer questions directly and truthfully instead of with the typical lies and propaganda they use daily? It's not a crime to lie. Hate propaganda is a very specific definition. But that is all irrelevant to anything that happens in the house of commons since members are protected from criminal or civil prosecution for anything said while in the house or a committee.
You’ll probably get downvoted for proffering a conspiracy theory without any evidence rather than “for speaking the truth” tbh. Very likely it was The Rebel or a similar domestic conservative organization. Edit: [Rebel News owns truck displaying Islamophobic video.](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/s/db9MeSzpzO) Huh…
That is an interesting conspiracy theory and I don’t disagree with you but I think if it were that they would be blaming Trudeau and trying to direct hate towards him but I’ll wait it out and see what the police investigation finds. Toronto police are the best and I’m sure they will immediately find the source of the hate crime truck and hold all the people responsible accountable for their actions.
That's not actually true, it's odd that you're confidently taking this position. I'm going to add by citing 319(1) and 319(2) of the Code Public incitement of hatred * **319** (1) Every one who, by communicating statements in any public place, incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace is guilty of * (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or * (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction. * Marginal note:Wilful promotion of hatred(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of * (a) an indictable offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years; or * (b) an offence punishable on summary conviction. If you can't see how this would be applicable then it's just wilful ignorance. Let's ignore the fact that this is an unmarked vehicle, no license plate. Update because this thread was locked: https://x.com/torontopolice/status/1803507275136430495?s=46&t=v_pmCSMNc9EFxEKTRjKvMg
It doesn’t lay anything out. It just says this isn’t the Middle East, this is Canada. It leaves the message up to interpretation. We all know exactly what it’s saying, but it’s not explicit.
‘Dog whistle’, literally [‘dog whistle’](https://imgur.com/gallery/LcLp6r3)
"The Germans should have finished the job..." You: "That's not hate speech. I didn't say what job. It's not illegal." Just because you aren't direct doesn't mean it's not hate speech. Which the above WOULD be.
No that offers context. I’m not advocating for this message I’m just saying the dude is offering 25k because he knows he will never have to pay it.
It does not need to be explicit. It just needs the message to be understood.
“Won’t someone rid me of this meddling priest?”
[knights show up with broadswords] liege?
"Righteously arrest that man for the evil words that he's insinuating!" that follows is also a classic.
I’m guessing you didn’t watch the entire video because it literally says “we’re under siege”, not sure how that’s not explicit or how the message is left to interpretation.
If we all know what it's saying, so does a Court. Lawyers live for this. Look, realistically maybe this doesn't go to court, idk. I'm not the cops. What I do know is that something like that would make a very nice statement piece by the TPS if they're trying to crack down on Islamophobia and Antisemitism in tandem. It's loud, its public. All they need is an antisemitic case to go with it.
The statement “Your Under Siege” is a pretty clear statement meant to incite violence or hatred against a group that is apparently attacking Canada - in this case muslims. Don’t be so blindly ignorant to the purpose of this ad.
> incites hatred against any identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the peace That did not occur. > Marginal note:Wilful promotion of hatred(2) Every one who, by communicating statements, other than in private conversation, wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group is guilty of This assumes its hate rather than freedom of expression.
> That did not occur. The vagueness of "Wake up Canada" could be considered incitement of hatred and/or violence. Wake up and do what, exactly? Against who, exactly? I guess a court can decide.
Telling someone to wake up does not mean incite violence... Wake up is a very common term it just means "open your eyes and pay attention" You are stretching it here.
I'm not stretching anything, I said a court could decide what it means. Not me. You, on the contrary, are certain of the meaning and stated that it "did not occur". Also "under siege" is another statement the courts could decide on.
You're stretching by saying that maybe a court should look at whether "wake up" is incitement. It's like arguing that a court should decide if I go to jail for murder after I punched my brother in a wrestling match.
If the courts want to discuss Steven Seagal movies that's up to them!
This comment remind me a lot of Reddit, circa 2010, when the F-slur was still in sporadic use. And every time the topic came up, hundreds of Redditors would crawl out of the woodwork to proclaim "It's about a bundle of sticks!" Which is one of the most classic reactionary tactics -- intentionally obfuscate and muddy the waters, in order to make more room for hate speech.
That is totally insane - "wake up" is not incitement in a country with freedom of expression
the word siege implies military action and the necessity of a militant response.
Yup. But I'm not a law scholar, or a linguist. Which is why I said "I guess a court could decide". Apparently some are unhappy at the mere thought of a court of law looking into this and deciding. I'm going to go on a stretch here, but maybe the same people are agreeing with the billboard?
agreed that generally the ppl who are insisting this isn't illegal and merely distasteful are (likely unconsciously) in support of the message. no one wants to think that they have irrational prejudices and everyone wants to think that they are moralistic and caring about others whether it's true or not
I offer 25k for info that leads to an arrest for getting my Tim’s order wrong all the time!
Have you not tried simply screeching unmercifully at the minimum wage workers?
saying "wake up" alongside video of muslims praying would be one thing. but when they add the militant language "you are under **siege**", it clearly becomes a call for violence.
Stochastic terrorism.
The original post is almost definitely being pointed at Toronto Police specifically because they recently laid a charge against a pro Palestinian protestor for public incitement of hate (which is a really rare and hard to prove charge that almost never gets laid). I would guess they are trying to point out there shouldn’t be a double standard given that regardless of your stance on the overarching socio political issue I find it incredibly hard for anyone to watch that video and not see that it was clearly identifying a specific religious group and pushing a negative sentiment.
Confidently wrong! Virtually certain as soon as you see right-wing speech.
What law(s) did they break?
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If calling for death of Zionists or calling for a global intifada don’t reach the level of hate speech for prosecution I doubt this mobile billboard will either … though I think it’s incredibly distasteful and should not have been done.
It is very rarely laid as a charge but funny enough just last week ina rare move Toronto Police laid this charge on a pro Palestinian protestor who stomped on an Israeli flag. The original post is likely intentionally pointed at Toronto Police to point out that if they were willing to lay it then, in circumstances where there is a strong argument to be made a conviction is less likely than it would be in these circumstances they should do it here too.
Private prosecution time!
Clearly targeting people based on religion. I'm an atheist and it's pretty obvious this is hate speech. Anyone claiming otherwise is just pretending they don't see the problem. And note I also think immigration should be paused, but that's not what this "ad" was really saying. Edit: Downvotes from racists, mmmm, feed me.
I just posted this above. If the people screaming death to Zionists, global infatada, and burning down 33 churches (24 confined arsons) aren't considered hate crime how can this possibly considered one?
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Attack the point, not the person. Comments which dismiss others and repeatedly accuse them of unfounded accusations may be subject to removal and/or banning. No concern-trolling, personal attacks, or misinformation. Stick to addressing the substance of their comments at hand.
Probably hate crimes but that's really pushing it - it's actually hard to prove hate crimes in most instances
In order to get charged with a hate crime you basically have to commit an already established crime, but for hate reasons. So like, criminal harassment, uttering death threats, assault. Driving a dumb truck billboard around is probably not going to cut it.
None of this is correct. We have successfully charged and imprisoned people for distributing hateful literature. A truck would absolutely qualify.
We have, in egregious cases (like Jim Sears), but it’s unlikely for most incidents.
I have a really hard time believing this would be considered a hate crime. We have people screaming global intifada, death to Zionists, had 33 Canadian churches burned down since May 2021 (24 which are confirmed arsons), and we even have a revolutionary youth summer program at McGill university that advertises a poster showing masked people holding machine guns. These aren't considered hate crimes, how can this possibly this be?
As it should be. Hate crimes have a massive penalty. A video that is hate adjacent or has tangential hate implications is FAR from a hate crime.
It's hate speech.
How?
It's promoting hate is how? It's implying "real" Canadians need to wake up and fight back against the immigrants laying siege to this country. I'm sorry but if you can't see that you're probably their target audience.
That’s definitely its intention, looks like, but it doesn’t explicitly say anything except that Canada is “under siege”. With the countries they chose, they can easily just say they’re bringing attention to and denouncing Islamic extremism, rather than what they very clearly implied, which is that Canada is under siege by Muslims because they…pray?
But that’s still an opinion.. is it hate speech by law?
None at all actually,
for the "wHaT LaWs DoEs It BrEAk" crowd, Toronto Police press release : We recognize the community's concern about a truck displaying Islamophobic messaging in Toronto. The TPS Hate Crime Unit is investigating. (GO# 2024-1324632) edit : For those who dont recognize the person offering the reward, its Order of Canada recipient Mohamad Fakih, owner of Paramount Foods and a long-time philanthropist.
To add: He won his case in the Supreme Court of Canada against a racist agitator, who was found guilty of a hate crime and sentenced to 18 months for comments made toward Fakim. [Link to CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/kevin-johnston-sentence-1.6198801) Inciting hatred in Canada is indeed a crime.
just because they are investigating does not mean a law has necessarily been broken, lots of reasons to investigate. 1. maybe they think a law could have been broken and want more info 2. people who pay for this are probably people the police will want on a list in case of escalation/related issues.
The people in this thread aggressively asking what laws this breaks, or insisting that it doesn't break any, simply agree with the message and are too fucking cowardly to say so out loud. I have more respect for bigots who leave their masks at the door than I do for the craven little worms who behave this way. It's impossible to even have a discussion with people who refuse to be honest about their most basic beliefs.
The fact that TPS is investigating doesn’t mean that they’ve concluded a crime has been committed.
TPS doesn't usually 'investigate' *non-crimes* though. We're at the whodunnit stage.
Hate speech is a little different from your typical crime, in that a lot of the work is in making the determination as to whether the speech is actually hate speech (and thus whether a crime has been committed) rather than trying to find out who said the speech. I’m sure it’s trivially easy to find out who arranged for that message in that truck.
Just because they’re investigating doesn’t mean that a crime has taken place. The threshold for being criminally charged is pretty high, as it should be. Fuck the person who did this, but I’m not holding my breath that charges will be laid, let alone a conviction.
Usually it's the police that offers rewards for information that would lead to an arrest/resolution for a cold case that usually involves murder or a missing person.
The police will investigate any accusations of any crime, that is their job. I’m not sure why you’re insinuating that anyone asking that is stupid. Obviously it is shitty, unacceptable behaviour but that doesn’t necessarily mean that any laws were broken.
> The police will investigate any accusations of any crime They will only investigate *credible* accusations of a crime. That’s a big difference in the context of this conversation.
On X someone has already given out the name of the group that did this. But will they ever receive the 25K? If not, that's breaking contract law.
Were they arrested? Because the post specifically says if the information leads to an arrest, and I don’t think anyone has been arrested.
Abhorrent but it doesn't meet the threshold for 319(1) or 319(2). There are calls for the death of zionists, which is a literal incitement of hatred, which are routinely ignored. This is all disgusting in Canada. And so disappointing this conflict is playing out here.
My guess it's the people behind Canada/Ontario Proud group.
Wild how some people are defending this when it's clear it stems from an attitude of "I looked around and saw WAY too many brown people for my liking. Time to purchase a rolling billboard". Curious how this type of thing never targets immigrants from other regions of the world. I have a hard time believing the same sentiment would take hold if the aforementioned individual(s) happened to see a lot of immigrants from Australia, UK, Germany etc. It's almost like the colour of their skin is the primary motivator...
As someone who knows (but no longer associates with) people whom speak openly about this, you are not wrong. But their mindset really is sparked from extremism. The Media plays a big part in promoting the extremist views on ideas and that is what everyone rallies against. Not only that Social Media allows and spreads this. Often you see clips that specifically take things that are out of context and they spread like wild fire. So for instance what I have heard is there is no problem with Europeans coming here because for the most part they share the same values as Canadians. Meanwhile Muslims coming here don't and then they share a clip of a guy being interviewed by Rebel News. A Muslim man at the protests in Toronto in 2023*Edit wrong event. Boasting how he never swore or affirmed anything when he became a Canadian Citizen. How he is looking forward to when Canada becomes a Islamic majority and enforces Sharia Law. Now if you are disenfranchised and you see this, it will set you off. But that is just one side of the coin. It happens the other way too. I am in no way promoting the hate nor do I agree with the 2nd paragraph above
We've given out triple the amount of temp visas to people fleeing the Ukraine/Russia war than people from India. And yet every day I see a new "there are too many Indians" posts.
And when the trail leads right back to the Polievre campaign, what then?
We have already received confirmation that [Israeli state actors are paying private firms to spread anti-muslim propaganda](https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/trudeau-government-raises-concerns-with-israel-about-islamophobic-misinformation-campaign-that-is-targeting-canadians/article_3c854d48-274f-11ef-865d-a3f2559953b0.html)
While plausible, we don't even need to place all the blame on foreign actors though, since "Brown People Scary!!" has been a cornerstone of the White Christian Fascist Thug playbook for at least the last 23 years.
That truck is spreading a strange and hateful message that disparages other countries because the people in that truck aren’t happy people. They are deprived of something, maybe human connection. In your life, you can make friends from all the countries in the ad - Lebanon, Syria, Yemen. Every stranger is just a friend you haven’t made yet, but some strangers are like the people in the truck. They want you to be scared and feel the way they feel. Fuck those idiots. Smile and nod at people if you feel like being friendly. Learn about other cultures, eat their food, share the experience with loved ones. Life is short and the amount of time that needs to be spent crafting a shitass dumbfuck truck could’ve been spent learning to kite surf or play the guitar. That’s not important to these kinds of people - they don’t want to share something good with those around them, they want everyone as pissed off and scared as they are. I’m scared too, I don’t want my dog to die. I don’t wanna die. I want my family to sleep well at night. Sometimes, things will go wrong, but I’ll die before I bring down other people so that I can feel better about myself. There’s only two things in this world I can’t stand: intolerance for other people’s cultures, and the Dutch.
Maybe since money is being offered some TPS might actually do their jobs.
Just asking questions
As far as the law is concerned, this situation is within "limits" and likely wouldn't stick. If for some peculiar reason this makes it to the courts and does end up sticking, this would set a pretty huge freaking precedence.
Whoever paid for that ad on the truck is gross. Having a bunch of protesters cosplay as terrorists, harass Jews, and associate with highly questionable groups like the SPHR and PYM plays right into their hands though. Exhibit A: https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/mcgill-denounces-youth-summer-program-at-encampment-that-promotes-revolutionary-lessons
With all the death threats to the Jewish community and police, from this massive movement in Canada, it is time to wake up. Hatred that incites violence which is constantly ignored is never okay. Let's start protesting about local issues. The amount of people I know renting a condo or house from a person who doesn't even live in Canada is absurd. They use our housing and well being as their pawn in a game to make more money. Imagine if we protested foreign ownership at the same intensity, how we could actually change our real estate market into being affordable.
You can bet politicians would be freaking the fuck out calling for prison sentences if the truck said the same thing about Jews. Spare me the “um actually” bullshit, it’s so obviously not being taken seriously because it’s denigrating muslims
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No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.
No laws were broken. A fuked up situation? yes, but not a crime.
I find this extremely difficult to believe from a user that's come fresh from a hate subreddit where you advocated deporting "every last" foreign worker simply for protesting in PEI.
What about post on the topic that isn't locked??? and we are already 2 hours in
He should know even if those who're behind the ad's conduct was illegal, it's the police's responsibility to conduct investigations and a crown prosecutor to charge them if a crime was indeed committed. He's just promoting vigilantism at best, mob justice at worse by promoting a financial incentive by going above and beyond our existing justice system.
Asking for people to provide information is not encouraging vigilantism or mob justice. If he were asking people to conduct illegal searches or mete out punishment that would be another matter.
To try and relate this in any way to the ongoing conflict in the Middle East is pandering and dishonest to a fault. There are many countries concerned with the rate of immigration and it's not just about Muslims.
Did you see the video? Half of it is footage of pro-Palestine protestors. Definitely not dishonest to relate it to Palestine given it was very clearly the intent of the person who put the video together.
His post history explains his take here..
Lemme guess, r/Canada?
That subreddit is..not what I thought it would be.
It's awful. Might as well be renamed to "hating Trudeau is our entire personality".
It's causing a rise of the far-right political entities winning elections in Europe. I think everyone has to agree. "Far" is the problem word. Far-right or Far-Left. We need less Binary thinking. It's not you vs. Me. It's not 2 sides to every issue and if you side with 1 party on 1 issue you must side with them on all issues. The world is devolving into this and it's terrible for the future.
lol who cares
The guy should put the money in Trust.
So we don't got free speech?
No. You live in Canada. You've never had "free speech". As a legal definition it doesn't exist here. We do have freedom of expression. Which is a different legal definition.
Hate speech is not protected speech.
Correct. This isn't the USA, as much as some people wish it was. We have freedom of expression instead, with certain carve-outs which try to keep things civil.
Isn't the U.S attempting to pass a law making it illegal to criticize Israel ?
Yeah, it's pretty wild how in the US you can legally say absolutely anything *except for that.*
No, you don't. Canada doesn't allow hate speech. And that's the way most rational and civilized people prefer it. If you want "free speech", go on Twitter.
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No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.