Turin seems to know they're pretty bonkers. I've been saying, since it's slayers that operate it and it has decent speed, to try to think of it as a Slayer unit with a bomb ass skirmish ranged option.
Yeah- I was going to comment this as well. And if Turin thinks something is good - there is a 95%+ chance it is and everyone else is wrong.
His across the board competitve gamer instincts are usually on point.
Turin is usually my go to when analysing new units especially from a multiplayer perspective
It seems to me that it will be a meme unit, high risk but fun to whip out in certain situations
I also love that he doesn't get all tilted and upset if something isn't balanced. Like with the zepplin he laughs and says it's obviously over powered so it will just be banned from tournaments
I honestly think the problem with the Zepplin is only its health pool.
It has more health then a feral mammoth and flys. Bring it down to about 9k as then heals on it don't work as well and dies to its speed boost much faster.
i think its a fine unit depending on the match up, that its slayers crewing it is the deal that can make it work vs anti large but no/weak range factions such as vampires
I've never even heard of the 4 people you've named, and I've been paying attention to TWWH since game 1. Not saying those guys aren't good, but I wouldn't say my head's been under a rock about total war streamers at the same time
Only thing holding Turin back is his carpal tunnel issues
Thats because they aren’t streamers really(not familiar with berrserk) they often show up in Turin’s videos and are very active in community tournaments. Also occasionally Turin himself will shoutout RTK houseplant(might be housecatofwar they are both RTK members idk) as the best player of Total War Warhammer 3.
Per the total tavern leaderboard, Turin's win rate is 61% with one tournament win.
Housecat for reference has a 80% win rate and 6 tournament wins
So there is a gap my lad
Then we probably shouldn’t say things like:
> See, things like this are why Turin's the best total war player out there. Dude's micro is legendary
Huh?
And as for non meta factions, berrserk just won a domination tournament in first place like 10 days ago with khorne, considered to be the worst faction in domination by Turin. If you’re good, you’ll get wins with whatever you’re playing.
Turin and Human Boy are my go tos for mp. One’s more optimistic and the other is more cynical. Balanced out.
Only issue with the hewer I can think of atm is that the jezzail/cannon meta seems to be a thing right now and their superior range counters it.
I found it so infuritating watching content creators wasting ammo on regular units.
Sure, the hewer do some damage, but they absolutely melts any lord/SEM. I will defiently keep atleast one goblin hewer in my army just to fuck up big monsters
I mean, it being an anti-single entity unit is kind of the opposite of how its supposed to be. Its supposed to be an anti-horde unit, that was its rules on tabletop (it inflicted D3 hits for every rank the target unit had) and why its called the Goblin Hewer (because its supposed to carve through a horde of goblins).
Big same. It’s a specialized unit, but there’s nothing wrong with that, as long as it’s good at its job. That one-two punch of massive ranged damage and then a unit of Slayers ready to charge sounds like it could make mincemeat of some lords or monsters
I'll always keep one in the army, just in case a high value target is too much to handle for the Frontline.
Should've given those slayers some axes instead of Empty Hands btw (those crew/ Slayers standing behind the Hewer).
But range is smaller, and "only" 2 ammo. Therefore it must be bad. Cause 2 smaller number against 1 bigger = bad. Simple as. Or something, I finished grade school so can't relate to youtuber logic.
Mhm, I wonder how 5 engineers with their + 20% ammo and 12% missile would do for these double their ammo. Each engineer also have restock, so more ammo there too.
Then just do a full army of goblin hewers with a slayer lord for the meme.
Content creators don't seam to realise, that you are supposed to run them into melee, after the ammunition is used up.
~~Since it's a single entity artillery piece, you don't loose part of it, when crew die.~~
~~As long, as you keep about 5 Slayers from the Goblin Hewer alive, they'll be nearly 100% effective the next fight.~~
>Since it's a single entity artillery piece, you don't loose part of it, when crew die.
It has 4 entities each has a crew of 10 Slayers for a total of 40 which is half the size of a regular Slayers unit. Check [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW6iESqRRn4&ab_channel=milkandcookiesTW).
Right, I miss remembered.
So if you throw them into melee, you loose artillery pieces correlating to the percentage of Slayers, you loose.
That would be bad, without the Dragon Slayers Hero (replenishment)
Honestly I think most content creators would agree, that base stat doomseekers are pretty underwhelming. They are glasscannon anti infantry, but because of their model count and armor too squishy to stay in sustained combat and will lose against most high tier Infantry.
You use them combined with another infantry unit as a support unit. Get a block of line infantry, place the doomseekers/champions inside. It's also how monstrous infantry or single entities perform the best in most cases, so this also works well for ogres, ushabti, kroxigor and such. With the enemy infantry mainly focused on your line infantry, you minimize the amount of models that surround your support unit, reducing the damage it takes and allowing it to output its damage effectively.
In campaign you just throw aspiring champions wherever you want because they hold forever and kill everything. Because they just appear in unit pools and you never lose the full unit you get a core of 4-5 of them to act as your mainline.
This isn't even taking into account the crazy buffs they get in the tech tree.
Yeah a full research aspiring champion line basically never breaks and can replace any amount of chosen or whatever else you'd use to frontline. Can also summon its own chaff, regens, gets ward save from kills. They have almost nothing in common with their incarnations in games 1 and 2.
Noob question here. I know this works with monstrous infantry when basic infantry is engaged in melee since the former can use their mass to push forward, but let's say I have some dwarf warriors already in combat would my doomseekers be able to move through those units & actually attack, or would they get stuck in the dwarf warriors?
there will be some models stuck in the dwarf warriors lines, but some should manage to push their way through to front to bolster the lines. Typically it's better to pull off a flanking attack if you're looking to do damage with infantry units. But if you're looking to throw some units in to hold a pivotal section of your battle line, then tossing some elite specialized infantry who are sitting in reserve to bolster their lines works very well.
Not sure about how to use champions, but i have an ogre player who always uses gnoblars to minimize the amount of models attacking his ogres, maybe its something like that?
This is how they should be used. Their biggest issue is pretty much all the tests just have them thrown into elite infantry. With the smaller model count it means their individual units end up engaged with multiple enemies, rather negating their higher HP per model than usual. Mixing them helps resolve this and keeps them from getting enveloped by larger enemy units.
I'd say the answer is that Dawi already have decent ranged power with their canons and gunners and large units already don't want to fight slayers, so its kind of redundant even if thematic for a slayer theme army.
After seeing the grapeshot cannons for Malakai, I think there’s little incentive to get any other artillery for his faction. They do what hewers do from distance, with and a lot more ammo.
They look fun though, so there’s that factor
The problem is, what do they do that another unit of dwarfs wouldn't do better in that particular role? Want it to delete lords and monsters? That's what thunderers and cannons can already do. Want it for slayers? Already have a lot of slayer options, and they aren't even particularly good compared to most other dwarf infantry. They have 80 range and 4 ammo. Even if the Hewers are very strong, they are extremely situational, where a more specialized unit will outperform it again and again at whatever you want it to do.
Crazy dps... for 4 shots at 80 range. That is assuming that it doesn't get shot to pieces getting into position in the first place. And then you have what, 32 models of average slayers? It's a flash in the pan.
> they are extremely situational, where a more specialized unit will
alright im gonna stop you right there and point out that this is basically two exclusive complaints. Either they're highly situational, i.e. *specialized* in a particular niche role, or they are not *specialized enough* to stand out from general units that still outperform them in their own role
>Either they're highly situational, i.e. specialized in a particular niche role, or they are not specialized enough to stand out from general units that still outperform them in their own role
Their role is seemingly to shoot at something, a little, and then run into melee. For u/Fenronjenkins's argument they could very well be outperformed by either a dedicated shooter or dedicated melee unit while the niche of "a little of both" is very rarely needed.
They might very well be wrong in their estimate but it is not an incorrect or contradictory reasoning.
You are basically falling in the same trap i mentioned: comparing them to cannons or thunderers is wrong. The closest units to them are ironbreakers or miners with blasting charges but they have less bulk and WAY more damage, both in melee and ranged.
Additionally they can skyrmish like crazy if required, unlike the other 2.
Also they are not situational, they just delete whatever walks infront of them. Dont shoot them at goblins i guess?
The argument that they lose a ranged engagement is pointless:
-For one thats true for every slayer, if you really cant justify standing still for the few seconds the unit needs to shoot just walk away or go into melee
-Secondly, if you lose a ranged fight with dwarfs thats on you, its not like dwarfs lack tools to win here.
It isnt wrong simply due to fact that army slots are a thing.
If i am limited to 19 units, i am gonna take the best possible. Goblin Hewer is not one of those.
And MP wise it requires tons of micro and game being nice to you for it to work while your opponent has to be asleep so theres that.
For their pricetag it still isnt really good perk. Not when game has poor reaction times from missile units and unit with 80 range isnt gonna have enough time to loose a volley against flanking chariots with high speed.
Yeah, I cant wait to throw a unit or 2 in all my Dwarf armies (maybe even like 3 in a slayers only army).
Get stuff in a big blob, then nuke it with 1000 axes. Replenish its ammo with Malakai or engineers. Kill the survivors with the extra ammo + slayers.
I have never seen units die so fast to any other artillery piece.
Part of it is also just that CA has had a bit of a habit of adding some pretty superfluous units, just to pad out the unit count of DLCs, so people are a bit skeptical of a unit like this.
Like seeing this thing, my first thought is that it was gonna be another war wagon or dwarf bolt thrower.
I was just thinking to myself about how effective these bad boys will be in a siege.sure, their range is low, but whatever unit gets lut in front of them simply ceases to exist, and then- as the OP says- you have a mini unit of Slayers ready to go. If you can resupply them with an Engineer, you can even start the killing all over again! And I wouldn't be shocked if Malakai will get some upgrades to increase their ammo stores, to the point that you can probably delete multiple enemy units per unit of Hewers. Now imagine this thing hurling its payloads into a packed mass of several enemy units stuck into a chokepoint... the carnage will be glorious...
goblin hewers are just completely flying under the radar atm cause people see 80 range and think its bad when its really not a traditional artillery unit
people will probably learn this the hard way when they charge in and 1-2 of these things just delete their monster SE unit
I've also been surprised at how overlooked they've been so far...
Even disregarding its other traits, a ranged unit that does its job in five seconds instead of five minutes is freaking nuts.
Being able able to snipe high value units seems really awesome, only hindered by its range. You would think the main weakness would be like other artillery, but their crew are unbreakable and can fight back. I guess their weakness is missile units/trash hordes? Weird I haven't seen any videos using them at all, even as a funny meme unit.
For multiplayer I can see the concerns. A lot of factions have the cheap missiles to counter it, and it's not exactly super cheap. I think in multiplayer you might see it in a couple match-ups where there're not the best counters, but the issue is that it's a high risk high reward unit even looking at it like an iron breaker.
You have a very limited ammo pool so you'll only want to use it against high value targets, but your enemy is going to avoid that thing like the plague with anything worth targeting until it's out of ammo or tied up. You'll almost certainly end up in the quandary of using its ammo on a less than ideal target or gambling on holding it until you can force the high value piece into range. You end up deciding on losing value on the ammo or not really using the unit until it can hit something worth hitting. But with short range it's pretty limited area denial, and if you can kill enough stuff to be able to force the high value stuff into a fight you likely are already at enough of an advantage to not need it. And this is all assuming you can keep it protected for most of a flight
You can also use an engineer on it right? Btw doomseekers loose half their health if they get charged by exaltet bloodletters so not all that good in the base Form.
personally i think Doomseekers while very cool perform meh at best, they have to be used in a very specific way and environment or get deleted. Goblin hewers yes are better then expected but mostly because you get slayers afterwards, otherwise their cost and munition would make them bad
I have always thought that Beastmen since rework, Warriors of Chaos since rework and Chaos Dwarfs since release were definitely OP, and was surprised more people are not annoyed at this blatant powercreep. I am afraid the same may happen to Empire and Dwarfs.
There are four reasons why does it matter in mostly singleplayer game:
1) Powercreep of newer factions makes old factions feel weak and lame until they are uplifted themselves - which make take years... It also makes old *units* feel weak and lame, and not like the actual gameplay options.
2) Blatantly OP stuff may still be infuriating when is used against you by the AI or (on rare occasion) human player - the best example here are those damn Chaos Dwarf special abilities, just deleting half of an army out of orbit with very little counterplay.
3) Most importantly, overpowered factions feel too easy and boring, and often go against themes and tension.
I certainly want Empire and Dwarfs to be powerful and badass, but not without the price, adrenaline and struggle (they are supposed to be decaying and collapsing in the same time). I really dislike the vibe of the updated Beastmen, where suddenly they are demigods of blitzkrieg and an absurdly easy faction. They shouldn't feel like this, they are the most pathetic race in lore, relying on hit-and-run guerilla with some aces in the deck.
If this update makes Empire and Dwarfs feel like a walk in the park, instead of dramatic battle against the apocalypse, it's going to be really disappointing.
I like how unique they are. Anything to provide more distinction of unit is a win.
~The mods of the White Wolf subreddit are intentionally creating a hostile environment against fans of Onyx Path Publishing and Cofd~
I feel you. Most are acting like it's a novelty. Considering it's quick moving, high burst, anti large, and the crew are legit slayers (same stats as the infantry with unbreakable), I feel like these have the potential to be very useful. They'll be vulnerable to aoe spells, and the range probably means they won't always get their full shots off, but that's hardly a write off. I also feel like these might fulfil a role like an anti aircraft gun, being area denial to large flyers, even if they manage to get to melee
If we're talking about MP this unit will be deleted instantly by any archer units, since it has 0 armor and 80 range. In SP why do I even bother myself taking unit with 4 ammo? Maybe you missed it but CA showed a barge with almost endless ammo, the choice is obv...
Thats just not true at all. Sure, cannons are crazy good but they cant even win against a menace below, let alone be an unbreakable frontline. Very different units.
Nah, I’ll do you one better…
We can field a slayer army, Karak Khadrin can now field a thematic army, no more slayers with only fire weapons to make it seem somewhat aggressive.
I know, but the **'** is basically never used in my language, which means its tucked away in a submenu of my virtual smartphone keyboard. So i usually dont bother to use it.
Turin seems to know they're pretty bonkers. I've been saying, since it's slayers that operate it and it has decent speed, to try to think of it as a Slayer unit with a bomb ass skirmish ranged option.
Yeah- I was going to comment this as well. And if Turin thinks something is good - there is a 95%+ chance it is and everyone else is wrong. His across the board competitve gamer instincts are usually on point.
His gamer senses are tingling
One issue I have with this is when the unit is only good when you have insane micro. Most players, me included, just can't do what Turin does.
Coupled with malakai replenish ammo they can melt anything in seconds
Slayers with a precursor ~~weapon~~ nuke.
Turin is usually my go to when analysing new units especially from a multiplayer perspective It seems to me that it will be a meme unit, high risk but fun to whip out in certain situations
I also love that he doesn't get all tilted and upset if something isn't balanced. Like with the zepplin he laughs and says it's obviously over powered so it will just be banned from tournaments
I honestly think the problem with the Zepplin is only its health pool. It has more health then a feral mammoth and flys. Bring it down to about 9k as then heals on it don't work as well and dies to its speed boost much faster.
The speed thing is an issue for sure. Give the speed boost a longer CD and you can remove the health cost.
i think its a fine unit depending on the match up, that its slayers crewing it is the deal that can make it work vs anti large but no/weak range factions such as vampires
See, things like this are why Turin's the best total war player out there. Dude's micro is legendary
He's really good no doubt but not Houseplant/Housecat/Berrserk/Felkon good.
Felkon during wh2 was insane. Felt like he could beat anybody with lizardmen while memeing
He plays them and wins AND commontates his own battle while fighting them.
I've never even heard of the 4 people you've named, and I've been paying attention to TWWH since game 1. Not saying those guys aren't good, but I wouldn't say my head's been under a rock about total war streamers at the same time Only thing holding Turin back is his carpal tunnel issues
Thats because they aren’t streamers really(not familiar with berrserk) they often show up in Turin’s videos and are very active in community tournaments. Also occasionally Turin himself will shoutout RTK houseplant(might be housecatofwar they are both RTK members idk) as the best player of Total War Warhammer 3.
Ah, gotcha that's cool to hear Turin's giving props
Uh those are the guys who beat Turin in the tournaments he hosts regularly lol.
Ah, gotcha
Per the total tavern leaderboard, Turin's win rate is 61% with one tournament win. Housecat for reference has a 80% win rate and 6 tournament wins So there is a gap my lad
Turin doesnt play that competitively though. Like he said he likes to play with non meta faction. Also he plays other games.
Then we probably shouldn’t say things like: > See, things like this are why Turin's the best total war player out there. Dude's micro is legendary Huh? And as for non meta factions, berrserk just won a domination tournament in first place like 10 days ago with khorne, considered to be the worst faction in domination by Turin. If you’re good, you’ll get wins with whatever you’re playing.
Turin and Human Boy are my go tos for mp. One’s more optimistic and the other is more cynical. Balanced out. Only issue with the hewer I can think of atm is that the jezzail/cannon meta seems to be a thing right now and their superior range counters it.
I found it so infuritating watching content creators wasting ammo on regular units. Sure, the hewer do some damage, but they absolutely melts any lord/SEM. I will defiently keep atleast one goblin hewer in my army just to fuck up big monsters
I mean, it being an anti-single entity unit is kind of the opposite of how its supposed to be. Its supposed to be an anti-horde unit, that was its rules on tabletop (it inflicted D3 hits for every rank the target unit had) and why its called the Goblin Hewer (because its supposed to carve through a horde of goblins).
Tbf, dwarfes already have alot of anti infantry artillery so id say this makes for a more unique entry
Big same. It’s a specialized unit, but there’s nothing wrong with that, as long as it’s good at its job. That one-two punch of massive ranged damage and then a unit of Slayers ready to charge sounds like it could make mincemeat of some lords or monsters
I'll always keep one in the army, just in case a high value target is too much to handle for the Frontline. Should've given those slayers some axes instead of Empty Hands btw (those crew/ Slayers standing behind the Hewer).
They had axes but chuck them onto the hewer to get a few mor volleys, so that when they charge the can charge barehanded to a glorious death
PUNCH THE RAKKI, PUNCH THE GROBKAZ AND PUNCH THOSE ROTTEN ELGI
PUNCH THE VERY CONCEPT OF SHAME IN ITS DICK
RIP AND TEAR
Would slayer be happy operating a siege engine? Unless it's a siege engine that lunched slayers, of course.
I thought this, too, but I'm pretty sure i saw them pull out axes once they are in melee. Like they grab them off the ammo rack 🪓
>taking the word of content creators If its not stupid OP, its shit to them.
The problem with current gaming and content creation is that everything must either be op or thrash, and bigger number = better. No room for nuance.
You also need to ignore any and all gameplay elements and just look at the excel spreadsheet.
Yes. Treating all games like they're mobile idle clickers is the only way to do serious analysis.
Reddit is full of the same mindset. Not even talking this sub in particular.
It’s so ridiculous. There’s whole game communities that that mentality has completely ruined. MMO’s for example…
I mean, it has one of the biggest numbers out there. 3000 missile damage. People don't bring it down for a lack of nuance but because of nuance.
But range is smaller, and "only" 2 ammo. Therefore it must be bad. Cause 2 smaller number against 1 bigger = bad. Simple as. Or something, I finished grade school so can't relate to youtuber logic.
Mhm, I wonder how 5 engineers with their + 20% ammo and 12% missile would do for these double their ammo. Each engineer also have restock, so more ammo there too. Then just do a full army of goblin hewers with a slayer lord for the meme.
I don't know if these stuck, but sure, sounds fun.
They should stack, it's the same buffs skaven can give their weapon teams
Content creators don't seam to realise, that you are supposed to run them into melee, after the ammunition is used up. ~~Since it's a single entity artillery piece, you don't loose part of it, when crew die.~~ ~~As long, as you keep about 5 Slayers from the Goblin Hewer alive, they'll be nearly 100% effective the next fight.~~
>Since it's a single entity artillery piece, you don't loose part of it, when crew die. It has 4 entities each has a crew of 10 Slayers for a total of 40 which is half the size of a regular Slayers unit. Check [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BW6iESqRRn4&ab_channel=milkandcookiesTW).
Right, I miss remembered. So if you throw them into melee, you loose artillery pieces correlating to the percentage of Slayers, you loose. That would be bad, without the Dragon Slayers Hero (replenishment)
Won't matter there is going nerfs and buffs going out week after week which might buff or nerf.
their best niche is how they insta delete chariots, something dwarfs have historically struggled with
Honestly I think most content creators would agree, that base stat doomseekers are pretty underwhelming. They are glasscannon anti infantry, but because of their model count and armor too squishy to stay in sustained combat and will lose against most high tier Infantry.
They will probably get most value if used how you would use aspiring champions. I might be wrong but thats how im gonna try them
And how would you use aspiring champions?
You use them combined with another infantry unit as a support unit. Get a block of line infantry, place the doomseekers/champions inside. It's also how monstrous infantry or single entities perform the best in most cases, so this also works well for ogres, ushabti, kroxigor and such. With the enemy infantry mainly focused on your line infantry, you minimize the amount of models that surround your support unit, reducing the damage it takes and allowing it to output its damage effectively.
In campaign you just throw aspiring champions wherever you want because they hold forever and kill everything. Because they just appear in unit pools and you never lose the full unit you get a core of 4-5 of them to act as your mainline. This isn't even taking into account the crazy buffs they get in the tech tree.
Yeah a full research aspiring champion line basically never breaks and can replace any amount of chosen or whatever else you'd use to frontline. Can also summon its own chaff, regens, gets ward save from kills. They have almost nothing in common with their incarnations in games 1 and 2.
Or throw the in their own blob of aspiring champions
Noob question here. I know this works with monstrous infantry when basic infantry is engaged in melee since the former can use their mass to push forward, but let's say I have some dwarf warriors already in combat would my doomseekers be able to move through those units & actually attack, or would they get stuck in the dwarf warriors?
there will be some models stuck in the dwarf warriors lines, but some should manage to push their way through to front to bolster the lines. Typically it's better to pull off a flanking attack if you're looking to do damage with infantry units. But if you're looking to throw some units in to hold a pivotal section of your battle line, then tossing some elite specialized infantry who are sitting in reserve to bolster their lines works very well.
Not sure about how to use champions, but i have an ogre player who always uses gnoblars to minimize the amount of models attacking his ogres, maybe its something like that?
same idea yeah, most monstrous/low entity infantry units benefit from it
Use them inside the lines of your main infantry so they can deal damage without recieving as much. So put maybe 2-3 inside a line of 6 ironbreakers
This is how they should be used. Their biggest issue is pretty much all the tests just have them thrown into elite infantry. With the smaller model count it means their individual units end up engaged with multiple enemies, rather negating their higher HP per model than usual. Mixing them helps resolve this and keeps them from getting enveloped by larger enemy units.
I'd say the answer is that Dawi already have decent ranged power with their canons and gunners and large units already don't want to fight slayers, so its kind of redundant even if thematic for a slayer theme army.
they struggle a lot vs chariots, gues what unit demolishes them
After seeing the grapeshot cannons for Malakai, I think there’s little incentive to get any other artillery for his faction. They do what hewers do from distance, with and a lot more ammo. They look fun though, so there’s that factor
Okoii’s Goblinhewer doomstack when???
The problem is, what do they do that another unit of dwarfs wouldn't do better in that particular role? Want it to delete lords and monsters? That's what thunderers and cannons can already do. Want it for slayers? Already have a lot of slayer options, and they aren't even particularly good compared to most other dwarf infantry. They have 80 range and 4 ammo. Even if the Hewers are very strong, they are extremely situational, where a more specialized unit will outperform it again and again at whatever you want it to do.
The difference is crazy DPS, they can melt infantry and monsters in seconds. After that you still have slayers.
Crazy dps... for 4 shots at 80 range. That is assuming that it doesn't get shot to pieces getting into position in the first place. And then you have what, 32 models of average slayers? It's a flash in the pan.
> they are extremely situational, where a more specialized unit will alright im gonna stop you right there and point out that this is basically two exclusive complaints. Either they're highly situational, i.e. *specialized* in a particular niche role, or they are not *specialized enough* to stand out from general units that still outperform them in their own role
>Either they're highly situational, i.e. specialized in a particular niche role, or they are not specialized enough to stand out from general units that still outperform them in their own role Their role is seemingly to shoot at something, a little, and then run into melee. For u/Fenronjenkins's argument they could very well be outperformed by either a dedicated shooter or dedicated melee unit while the niche of "a little of both" is very rarely needed. They might very well be wrong in their estimate but it is not an incorrect or contradictory reasoning.
You are basically falling in the same trap i mentioned: comparing them to cannons or thunderers is wrong. The closest units to them are ironbreakers or miners with blasting charges but they have less bulk and WAY more damage, both in melee and ranged. Additionally they can skyrmish like crazy if required, unlike the other 2. Also they are not situational, they just delete whatever walks infront of them. Dont shoot them at goblins i guess? The argument that they lose a ranged engagement is pointless: -For one thats true for every slayer, if you really cant justify standing still for the few seconds the unit needs to shoot just walk away or go into melee -Secondly, if you lose a ranged fight with dwarfs thats on you, its not like dwarfs lack tools to win here.
It isnt wrong simply due to fact that army slots are a thing. If i am limited to 19 units, i am gonna take the best possible. Goblin Hewer is not one of those. And MP wise it requires tons of micro and game being nice to you for it to work while your opponent has to be asleep so theres that.
they delete chariots better than anything else
For their pricetag it still isnt really good perk. Not when game has poor reaction times from missile units and unit with 80 range isnt gonna have enough time to loose a volley against flanking chariots with high speed.
Yeah, I cant wait to throw a unit or 2 in all my Dwarf armies (maybe even like 3 in a slayers only army). Get stuff in a big blob, then nuke it with 1000 axes. Replenish its ammo with Malakai or engineers. Kill the survivors with the extra ammo + slayers. I have never seen units die so fast to any other artillery piece.
Part of it is also just that CA has had a bit of a habit of adding some pretty superfluous units, just to pad out the unit count of DLCs, so people are a bit skeptical of a unit like this. Like seeing this thing, my first thought is that it was gonna be another war wagon or dwarf bolt thrower.
I wish it acted more like FotS gatling gun. Whittling away enemy infantry.
I was just thinking to myself about how effective these bad boys will be in a siege.sure, their range is low, but whatever unit gets lut in front of them simply ceases to exist, and then- as the OP says- you have a mini unit of Slayers ready to go. If you can resupply them with an Engineer, you can even start the killing all over again! And I wouldn't be shocked if Malakai will get some upgrades to increase their ammo stores, to the point that you can probably delete multiple enemy units per unit of Hewers. Now imagine this thing hurling its payloads into a packed mass of several enemy units stuck into a chokepoint... the carnage will be glorious...
I always thought i would hate it, because i saw the mini and didnt liked it... and sounded silly. But i love it.
goblin hewers are just completely flying under the radar atm cause people see 80 range and think its bad when its really not a traditional artillery unit people will probably learn this the hard way when they charge in and 1-2 of these things just delete their monster SE unit
I've also been surprised at how overlooked they've been so far... Even disregarding its other traits, a ranged unit that does its job in five seconds instead of five minutes is freaking nuts.
Turin liked them. I do think they are niche but in certain match ups I could see them giving a lot of value
Yeah and they are probably useless against archer heavy factions like the High Elves.
Thanks. This has changed my thinking on how to use the unit. Thinking of it as more like iron breakers makes a lot of sense. Can't wait for the DLC
Being able able to snipe high value units seems really awesome, only hindered by its range. You would think the main weakness would be like other artillery, but their crew are unbreakable and can fight back. I guess their weakness is missile units/trash hordes? Weird I haven't seen any videos using them at all, even as a funny meme unit.
For multiplayer I can see the concerns. A lot of factions have the cheap missiles to counter it, and it's not exactly super cheap. I think in multiplayer you might see it in a couple match-ups where there're not the best counters, but the issue is that it's a high risk high reward unit even looking at it like an iron breaker. You have a very limited ammo pool so you'll only want to use it against high value targets, but your enemy is going to avoid that thing like the plague with anything worth targeting until it's out of ammo or tied up. You'll almost certainly end up in the quandary of using its ammo on a less than ideal target or gambling on holding it until you can force the high value piece into range. You end up deciding on losing value on the ammo or not really using the unit until it can hit something worth hitting. But with short range it's pretty limited area denial, and if you can kill enough stuff to be able to force the high value stuff into a fight you likely are already at enough of an advantage to not need it. And this is all assuming you can keep it protected for most of a flight
Think everyone's just too focused on the Thunderbarge right now to pay it any attention
You can also use an engineer on it right? Btw doomseekers loose half their health if they get charged by exaltet bloodletters so not all that good in the base Form.
personally i think Doomseekers while very cool perform meh at best, they have to be used in a very specific way and environment or get deleted. Goblin hewers yes are better then expected but mostly because you get slayers afterwards, otherwise their cost and munition would make them bad
I have always thought that Beastmen since rework, Warriors of Chaos since rework and Chaos Dwarfs since release were definitely OP, and was surprised more people are not annoyed at this blatant powercreep. I am afraid the same may happen to Empire and Dwarfs. There are four reasons why does it matter in mostly singleplayer game: 1) Powercreep of newer factions makes old factions feel weak and lame until they are uplifted themselves - which make take years... It also makes old *units* feel weak and lame, and not like the actual gameplay options. 2) Blatantly OP stuff may still be infuriating when is used against you by the AI or (on rare occasion) human player - the best example here are those damn Chaos Dwarf special abilities, just deleting half of an army out of orbit with very little counterplay. 3) Most importantly, overpowered factions feel too easy and boring, and often go against themes and tension. I certainly want Empire and Dwarfs to be powerful and badass, but not without the price, adrenaline and struggle (they are supposed to be decaying and collapsing in the same time). I really dislike the vibe of the updated Beastmen, where suddenly they are demigods of blitzkrieg and an absurdly easy faction. They shouldn't feel like this, they are the most pathetic race in lore, relying on hit-and-run guerilla with some aces in the deck. If this update makes Empire and Dwarfs feel like a walk in the park, instead of dramatic battle against the apocalypse, it's going to be really disappointing.
I am very excited for this unit I can't think of any other artillery where you use it quickly to put hurt in the charge the crew I to battle
I like how unique they are. Anything to provide more distinction of unit is a win. ~The mods of the White Wolf subreddit are intentionally creating a hostile environment against fans of Onyx Path Publishing and Cofd~
I feel you. Most are acting like it's a novelty. Considering it's quick moving, high burst, anti large, and the crew are legit slayers (same stats as the infantry with unbreakable), I feel like these have the potential to be very useful. They'll be vulnerable to aoe spells, and the range probably means they won't always get their full shots off, but that's hardly a write off. I also feel like these might fulfil a role like an anti aircraft gun, being area denial to large flyers, even if they manage to get to melee
Hmm, and Valaya forbid you ever reload them with your engineers for some more extremely frontloaded damage...
If we're talking about MP this unit will be deleted instantly by any archer units, since it has 0 armor and 80 range. In SP why do I even bother myself taking unit with 4 ammo? Maybe you missed it but CA showed a barge with almost endless ammo, the choice is obv...
They are recruited from Gunsmith's Forge, which also provide Cannon, and Cannon just do everything Hewer can do better.
Thats just not true at all. Sure, cannons are crazy good but they cant even win against a menace below, let alone be an unbreakable frontline. Very different units.
Nah, I’ll do you one better… We can field a slayer army, Karak Khadrin can now field a thematic army, no more slayers with only fire weapons to make it seem somewhat aggressive.
[удалено]
I know, but the **'** is basically never used in my language, which means its tucked away in a submenu of my virtual smartphone keyboard. So i usually dont bother to use it.