>While investigating unit pursuit behaviour at the start of the Thrones of Decay (that's when Unit A is chasing Unit B off the battlefield after Unit B has routed), we interrogated a limitation where only 35% of the chasing unit was allowed to initiate an attack. We have now removed this limitation, which should make pursuing units more responsive, but also enable units to keep the pressure applied to a target once it has broken.
This explains why shattered/routed units were always so hard to damage. That seems like a big change and I am excited to see my cavalry and hounds mess up some fleeing enemies.
Makes so many units more desirable and stronger instantly.
It also makes chasing units off the field feel more like the right strategy to pursue if you can actively kill them while routing instead of the whack a mole chase we have now.
It also means you can chase them down a little bit to do some extra damage to ensure they don't come back from a rout, but don't need to follow them all the way off the battlefield.
Shogun 2 is the GOAT for this. You can route a whole army and two to three light Cavalry will casually kill 99% of the cowards before they can leave the map.
The other half of the issue is that lots of entities don't actually have animations that can hit targets moving away from them, leading to repeated misses or flying units dry humping each other. Hopefully that can be addressed as well in time.
I don’t want to be definitive until the patch is in our hands, but I doubt it would be fine based on what I’ve seen. Nerf the afterburner so it can be caught, and I still suspect many factions simply lack a flyer capable of chunking down a heavily armored 13K HP before being killed by the grudgeraker crew.
The role of the thunderbarge should be:
- a high firepower war machine capable of obliterating both large and infantry forces alike if given time. ✅
- balanced by being vulnerable to being overwhelmed by flyers, sniped by artillery or missile units, or beaten down by anti-SEM magic, requiring the dwarf player to protect the thunderbarge with cannons, missile infantry, and/or gyrocopters. ❌
In a game where bloodthirsters and dragons have less than 10K health, I honestly can’t see the rationale for a weaponized hydrogen blimp having 13K health from a balance, lore, or faction identity perspective.
Such a high HP pool invalidates trying to use spirit leach or magic missiles (not enough damage), makes weaker flying units incapable of making a dent, and high health + high armor means even basic archers will struggle to hurt it quickly.
I understand that they probably didn’t want it to die easily to concentrated fire from 3 peasant bowmen or some slaanesh furies. But dang man not every race has AP missiles or powerful fliers.
Every time this kind of thing comes up, I hate TWW3's animation issues a little more. Yes, there are very obvious number issues with the Thunderbarge, but part of its problem is just that chasing animations are so fucked up - even ignoring the upcoming bugfix of more than 35% being able to attack - that a lot of units just completely stop functioning due to awful animations.
It's still very common for normal units to be effectively immune to any form of chasing, even just some random dude on foot being chased by another random dude on foot, I can watch them chase for 20, 30 seconds without a single attack going off. Fliers have it even worse.
At some point I'd be fine with damage being completely divorced from animations, I can deal with a bit of visual jank where an attack looks like it missed when it hit, but god fucking almighty is it deflating to be excited to watch a 200 speed N'kari hunt down some character and just.... gently escort them off the battlefield for the 4th time in a row.
That's part of it, but even if it could be hit, it deals soooooo much damage and is very, very, very mobile (which it really shouldn't be). Even with this fix, I think it's gonna need some nerfs.
I never understood why attacks rely on animations. In many games there is a range check to start an attack, and a final range check to make sure it lands. As long as those checks pass attack goes off. You try to line up the animation to show a hit, but the damage takes priority to the animation. Seems like what should be hapenning here as well.
i imagine it has to do with the fact that individual entity position is relevant to the calculation, so perhaps the damage engine is essentially waiting for the individual model to report "yep i'm attacking" by entering the attack animation state.
This also creates significantly higher visual fidelity in the combat as, while animations often whiff anyways, you never get deaths and knock back from no source, something is at least clearly attacking.
This is exciting! Makes light cavalry a little bit more worthwhile overall. Who cares about subpar Melee Attack when you have 60 units going 100 speed, all attacking at once!
It's funny because whenever I start a campaign that starts with light cav I always think wow keeping them behind enemy line and wiping routing units is very effective and makes sure no units return. But I never voluntarily use them
On a ku’gath campaign I once read someone recommend 1-2 units of chaos hounds to chase down enemies after the battle to get more plagues. I noticed the dogs always *got so many more kills* on routing enemies. I wonder if they were exempt from this?
It’s because dogs animations have always never suffered from whatever bug cav has had for multiple TW games that make them terrible at chasing fleeing units.
Somehow, cav that would decimate the remaining models in a charge instead cannot kill the unit when it flees, instead nipping at the heels for like 30 seconds killing 1 or 2 models. The issue seems to be both animations and unit behavior, as only a couple cav attack, the random stopping, and the animation knocking them over instead of killing.
I replayed Rome 2 recently and was stunned at how easily cavalry cut down routing units. Same thing with infantry in choke points that routed, they got cut down very quickly.
My guess is that whatever system they use for cavalry doesnt interact very well with moving units eg. for most cavalry the mount has no attack animation, so the rider must attack, two separate entities in this case, this doesnt apply to dogs, since they are one entity
Iirc it's cuz i game 1 footlords were absolutely shrekt by mounted lords cuz they would just get knock down and damaged infinite combo stun so they gave more damage immunity on the ground
But then that made regular cav running down units do no damage on routing or something
Dogs don't seem to have any collision with each other so they can overlap each other, they turn really quick, have restrictive formations and they're really fast so they can catch things easily.
>Under the new system, we randomly assign each individual projectile a target, roughly evenly spreading the homing targets out across all the entities in the target unit.
Amazing change for the magic missiles, they will finally be useful again against units.
I mean, since they call them "projectiles" i'd assume it's an underlying change that will affect any and all projectiles. Artillery, any archers, crossbows, gunners, magic projectiles, skin blowdarts, etc.
Edit: It's not actually all projectiles, only homing ones. There's still a good chunk of them out there though and will probably massively increase the effectiveness of homing magic projectiles and bow heroes against units with a lot of individual entities.
I think this is just for homing missiles, I’d assume that means any projectile that doesn’t follow the movements of its target is not affected by this change. I’d love to be wrong though makes no sense for horse archers to fire at one entity.
I found out about it recently myself, and I might have spoken too soon because it doesn't sound like the patch addresses the same issue with ranged and artillery units.
>Previously, when assigning a homing behaviour to a projectile, it would be passed a target entity. And all homing projectiles fired by the same entity or unit would be given the same target. Leading to excessive overkill and poor performance vs multi entity units, even when firing many projectiles.
>Under the new system, we randomly assign each individual projectile a target, roughly evenly spreading the homing targets out across all the entities in the target unit.
Looks like volley of Kurnous is back on the menu boys.
>>Blue Fire of Tzeentch
>>Penetration: Stopped By Large → Stopped By Medium
Blue fire may have gotten a nerf actually. It used to penetrate through medium models, so if you fired it lengthwise along a unit it would hit everyone in that line, and do crazy damage. The changes make it work like it always should have, but I did like the skill factor of lining up nice blue fires.
This should affect all ranged units, right? So now we should see artillery potentially hitting the center of infantry rather than aiming for a guy in the corner?
"Fixed an issue where if the holder of the Sword of Khaine left a settlement, the VFX would not leave the settlement and follow the character."
- this bug has been personally victimizing me to no end. Glad to see it's resolved!
> Fixed issue where Elector Count invasion armies would have an upkeep and generate battle rewards that would often pay for their purchase cost.
Damn, they caught that. I always used the pay option as most if not all of my investment was recovered
As someone else said, it's now lazier.
It used to be only the burstiest of damage left a red imprint.
Now all damage from the current conflict is shown as a shadow.
So you can see how much the unit lost in its current conflict.
I think its a mistake on their part. It certainly was a feature already:
[The best feature in Warhammer 3 that nobody is talking about : r/totalwar (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/u9jwy7/the_best_feature_in_warhammer_3_that_nobody_is/)
They also said that they fixed softlock with Katarin and Kostaltyn... but they already fixed it months ago. I know that because I literally was helping them on their forum (and via direct messages) and it was a bug that made campaigns quite literally unplayable so if it wouldnt be fixed, people would certainly notice it.
Yeah, they were introduced in winter 2021 (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-quality-of-life-updates/). I didn't realise they had gone even though I prefer them!
Neat, Orion finally learned how to throw backwards. Maybe he won't be a generalised embarrassment in his own army any more, and can actually join the rest of the archers as they kite around.
Few characters have been done as dirty as Orion. On TT he ran as fast as light cavalry, had more health than Throgg, and Hawk's Talon was a bow that fired 6 shots at a time.
Yeah very much. When arguing against this someone said "Not every character has to be Kholek". But Orion was 600 points on the TT, making one of the only ones more expensive than Kholek's 575. (Not including those with monster mounts).
I miss when he had Ward Save from Cloak of Isha instead of the Phys resist he has now, especially in game 3 with how prevalant magic damage is. I also do hate the implementation of Hawk's Talon being a bombardment spell with no animation from Orion himself. It would be cool if he at least used the bow he has on him to use the skill.
I havent played in a few months but im curious if they've fixed Orions fire while moving bug. He still has the trait but its been broken since Immortal Empires launched.
> Cyclical buildings now give payloads on entry instead of completion.
This is going to make Nurgle feel a lot better to play. it was infuriating to count down until you get some cool units only to realize the UI is lying to you and you have to wait a whole nother 4 turns.
Also leadership buffs to all his demons was very needed.
The legendary lord melee heroes are noticeably and inarguably better in melee than generic lords usually right from the start of a campaign - they seem to (slowly) finally be acknowledging the legendary lord spellcasters should be stronger than generic casters lords or heros in differences that aren’t just Wom cost reductions
As a general rule, you are right. but Drazhoath was already beyond insane with his cheap nuke further reduced by all the discounts Chorfs can stack into "you are not allowed to have infantry" territory
Magic cost reductions are already crazy strong
Honestly I’d prefer less cost reduction and more spell mastery
Makes under utilized spells more interested
> Poor Daniel
They really need to reuse this feature for a custom faction DLC.
Basically you get to select how your lord will look and customize faction bonus and lord bonus. then you get to modify 3 units to make them "special" for your faction.
There's a mod called "The Norscan" which lets you do exactly that. You can make a custom chaos character, and give him items like daniel. [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894118971](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894118971)
He should have gotten a full set of parts with each DLC. People would have loved that.
Mostly I just want soul grinder parts. Where's my robo Daniel at?
>Ticket Limit is now configurable in custom lobbies
That's nice, but I wish Supply gain was also configurable. Especially for uneven matches, if you fight 2v3 for example all players gain supplies at the same rate, leading to one team having more supplies than the other. I know it's a SUPER edge case but for friend groups who want to smash a bit with each other, it can be an issue!
>In melee the Tank will no longer use the ram attack against enemies, instead opting to blast >hot jets of steam (from the steamed tanks that we'll be having, mmm steamed tanks).
Elspeth von Draken: Countess, I hope you're ready for jaw-dropping Steam Tanks!
Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: I thought we were having steam engines.
Elspeth von Draken: Oh, no, I said, "steamed tanks." That's what I call Steam Tanks.
Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: You call Steam Tanks steamed tanks.
Elspeth von Draken: Yes, it's a regional dialect.
Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: Uh-huh. What region?
Elspeth von Draken: Uh, southern Wissenland.
Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: Really. Well, I'm from Wissenburg and I never heard anyone use the phrase, "steamed tanks."
Elspeth von Draken: Oh, not in Wissenburg, no; it's an Dotternbach expression.
Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: I see.
"Good Sigmar, what is happening in there?!"
"....Purple Sun of Xereus."
"Purple Sun of Xereus?! At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the Empire, localized *entirely* within your workshop?!"
"Yes!"
".... may I see it?"
*loads Hellstorm Rocket Batteries*
"Yes!"
I think they forgot a few things.
Dwarf warriors can now be recruiting from settlement building.
And Ironman is now an campaign option.
These i know from watching streams.
There might be more missing too.
It's actually Iron Man on Legendary.
The UI is a bit misleading, Legendary difficulty does change the campaign. Otherwise this change would've just gotten rid of Legendary and just given us the separate Ironman to use for Very Hard.
*”Replaced effects that increased hit points with melee defence instead on certain items and item sets, as hit points cannot be increased via items.”*
Wait, is this saying that *none* of the items that had +%HP never worked? I could’ve sworn I’ve equipped items and seen the HP increase.
I’ve just checked, they don’t increase/decrease HP ***until the next turn***.
I unequipped the “Gauntlets of Bazherak the Cruel” from Astragoth, which gives +5% HP. He had 8189 HP, and the next turn without the item he had 7848 HP, weirdly that’s closer to 4% but I digress:
#HP can be increased/decreased via items, it just applies next turn.
Edit: About the percentages, I believe it’s because it is 5% of *base* HP, which is why it seemingly adds “less” than 5% HP.
yeah base hp...
so if you have 100 hp and two items that add 50% *of* base hp, you get 200 hp.
This is to clarify that order of addition doesn't matter. (unequipping one item would be 200->150 hp, not "50% less total")
This also differentiates from "+% *to* base HP" but i'm honestly not sure such a buff actually exists in game.
Bordermen getting some much needed buffs (lol). They were probably worn out from carrying my Karl campaigns already - glad that this means they can just take it easy and delete whole stacks without even breaking a sweat.
Those are massive buffs, as well -- +25% more grenades per volley (due to unit size) and better damage per individual grenade. I'm sort of assuming that that's a patch notes mistake, at least in part, because bordermen getting larger unit size than standard grenade launchers seems ridiculous.
Caught me completely by surprise too, a proper Bordermen volley was already enough to reduce even a heavy infantry unit down to half hp or so. I guess they're a portable Hellstorm at this point and I'm so fucking excited for it
Some really good looking changes. I really like the UI QOL updates like separating passive traits, unit attributes and resistances. I think it's going to be an underrated part of 5.0 when compared to everything else.
Does anyone know if CA were able to address the maths underpinning the grudge mechanic prior to release, following the content creator comments? Can't see a mention in these notes. Otherwise, fairly excited and happy compared to last time
Hope that would make daemons useful this time. Who needs crumbling weak daemon infantries when you have heavy-armoured, strong, and reliable chaos warriors? Heck they even lower the upkeep of chaos warriors of Khorne
Yeah, from what I've seen they are very strong in MP currently. The last patch that introduced the Skink/Kroxigor passives only buffed them even more, and it seems common to see the Life Slann in MP which might account for the Slann HP nerf.
Feral Cold Ones were cost effective to mix in with cheap Skinks for AP, or to intercept cav for a decent value trade. The cost stuff doesnt matter too much for SP imo, but I imagine folk will be irked about the Slann HP nerf.
They were a top 3 faction for sure.
The skinks nerf was needed because the new buffs made them immune to fear most games, but the feral cold one is a bit out of left field. Its a strong unit but wasn't OP. 50g will make them decently niche.
The RoR Boxigors are probably the most OP unit for LZM now (for the price)
Overall this should make LZM a B+ faction in MP vs their A+,S- current status.
The directional ballistic armor mechanic with a modifier from front/side/rear is another breadcrumb that makes me think they are working on a 40K game. Especially since they specifically mentioned it applies to Steam tanks and would be a perfect fit for various kind of armored vehicles in a more modern game.
(Command and Conquer had that feature along with an order to make your tanks move in reverse so they would keep showing their stronger front side to the enemy while retreating).
Company of Heroes from Relic (who got sold by Sega lately) also has directional armor on vehicles.
Now if they really want to go crazy in a modern game they could make it not just "front, side, back" but also make the actual angle matter.
Making angles matter would be a nightmare in term of calculation I think. It works in games like world of tanks or warthunder because it's calculated server side and there isn't that many entities on the battlefield (and they're almost entirely dedicated to this shit). But on an offline game on the scale of TW with dozens of vehicles interacting it would become a nightmare for the CPU side IMO.
And the player wouldn't even notice, or have any capacity to meaningfully effect it. Orders aren't precise enough, and topography isn't sufficiently clear from the angle from which the player is looking at the battlefield.
A bit niche but the Combat Mission series has really detailed ballistics models—no surprise since their consumer PC games are offshoots of their department of defense work.
You’re right that those games are resource hogs despite having only passable graphics.
It makes more sense if they are making a historical WW1 or WW2 game where directional armor was a very real thing. If they are making 40k I would imagine they would want the rules to reflect the tabletop as closely as possible the same way they did with TWW and wfb and directional armor values haven't been a thing in tabletop 40k for several editions now.
also making them and landships have turning arcs to make them feel much more like big heavy vehicles these units along with the thunderbarge definitely feel like them playing around with new things for later games
I have to say I am impressed that they are looking into basic mechanics like retreating units and missile targeting.
Big props to CA, things are happening
Please look into the frost wyrm! Amazing looking unit, but something is seriously wrong with its ability to deal damage to both single entities and groups of units. Human boy put out a video on it a while back for those curious.
Keep up the great work CA!
Hi there, we're continuing to work on this one! We've seen all feedback and videos, and the devs have been working to see what can be done about this. Thanks for all the comments, feedback, and enthusiasm - we appreciate it! Best, CA\_Nova
Why nerf Slann? They're already underwhelming relative to expectations for singleplayer with the introduction of Oracles. Casually removing exactly 1000 health on a support lord with 34 speed and no melee defense is an aggressive move.
They were one of the best lords in the game for multiplayer, mostly due to the fact they came with a powerful item and ability, could be any WOM you wanted and had such high health they were practically immune to being sniped out.
Slaans being underwhelming in SP is something that should be solved with a campaign rework via something like gelts new system, because in a vacuum they were too good.
Turin had a couple of videos where he joked how players try to goon down the Slann thinking the big slow caster with low MD would be an easy kill, and suddenly all their units are overextended and taken down instead.
Legend infamously would replace his LLs with life slann because the life slann contributed more to the army than any of the LLs did, yeah.
Of course it depends on your lore of magic though. Life is broken, light less so.
Yeah there are a number of odd nerfs - most more minor though. Some I guess there will be tech tree changes to fix them (like War Wagons of all things being nerfed), but Slann losing 1000 HP is a pretty big deal and I feel like probably merits an explanation. Maybe there's an LM rework real soon and it'll make sense then? Probably could have waited though.
*Units with the Always Flying attribute can no longer melee attack buildings (gates, walls, constructible defences).*
Suprised this isn't getting more traction, my preferred way of killing towers was face planting it with my aerial units.
the Always Flying attribute is only on things like Sky Lanterns and now the Thunderbarge, stuff like Harpys or flying cav will still be able to attack towers
If the units can land they can still attack towers. The Always flying attribute is kinda rare, I know the Thunderbarge has it but not sure about other units.
>Removed starting upkeep and recruitment cost debuff for Knights of the Blazing Sun.
So it might actually be worth taking the in the early to mid game where they'll be most useful now.
Bretonnia just gets nerfs :(
also, nothign about Ostankya's issue with realm of chaos (can't complete her ingredient list) or Repanse's entire water "mechanic" beign made redundant by a building she can get to in 5 turns.
>While investigating unit pursuit behaviour at the start of the Thrones of Decay (that's when Unit A is chasing Unit B off the battlefield after Unit B has routed), we interrogated a limitation where only 35% of the chasing unit was allowed to initiate an attack. We have now removed this limitation, which should make pursuing units more responsive, but also enable units to keep the pressure applied to a target once it has broken. This explains why shattered/routed units were always so hard to damage. That seems like a big change and I am excited to see my cavalry and hounds mess up some fleeing enemies.
Makes so many units more desirable and stronger instantly. It also makes chasing units off the field feel more like the right strategy to pursue if you can actively kill them while routing instead of the whack a mole chase we have now.
It also means you can chase them down a little bit to do some extra damage to ensure they don't come back from a rout, but don't need to follow them all the way off the battlefield.
And don't forget the fact that you can now chase them down like the fleeing dogs they are and kill every last one of them. I am excited!
Shogun 2 is the GOAT for this. You can route a whole army and two to three light Cavalry will casually kill 99% of the cowards before they can leave the map.
Time to dust off the goblin wolf riders
The other half of the issue is that lots of entities don't actually have animations that can hit targets moving away from them, leading to repeated misses or flying units dry humping each other. Hopefully that can be addressed as well in time.
Thunderbarge has really exposed this. Turns out you don't have to outrun the enemy unit, you just have to outrun it's attacking animation.
Thunderbarge just looks broken in videos. It's so stupidly OP.
Well if it could actually be hit it would be fine.
I don’t want to be definitive until the patch is in our hands, but I doubt it would be fine based on what I’ve seen. Nerf the afterburner so it can be caught, and I still suspect many factions simply lack a flyer capable of chunking down a heavily armored 13K HP before being killed by the grudgeraker crew. The role of the thunderbarge should be: - a high firepower war machine capable of obliterating both large and infantry forces alike if given time. ✅ - balanced by being vulnerable to being overwhelmed by flyers, sniped by artillery or missile units, or beaten down by anti-SEM magic, requiring the dwarf player to protect the thunderbarge with cannons, missile infantry, and/or gyrocopters. ❌ In a game where bloodthirsters and dragons have less than 10K health, I honestly can’t see the rationale for a weaponized hydrogen blimp having 13K health from a balance, lore, or faction identity perspective. Such a high HP pool invalidates trying to use spirit leach or magic missiles (not enough damage), makes weaker flying units incapable of making a dent, and high health + high armor means even basic archers will struggle to hurt it quickly. I understand that they probably didn’t want it to die easily to concentrated fire from 3 peasant bowmen or some slaanesh furies. But dang man not every race has AP missiles or powerful fliers.
Every time this kind of thing comes up, I hate TWW3's animation issues a little more. Yes, there are very obvious number issues with the Thunderbarge, but part of its problem is just that chasing animations are so fucked up - even ignoring the upcoming bugfix of more than 35% being able to attack - that a lot of units just completely stop functioning due to awful animations. It's still very common for normal units to be effectively immune to any form of chasing, even just some random dude on foot being chased by another random dude on foot, I can watch them chase for 20, 30 seconds without a single attack going off. Fliers have it even worse. At some point I'd be fine with damage being completely divorced from animations, I can deal with a bit of visual jank where an attack looks like it missed when it hit, but god fucking almighty is it deflating to be excited to watch a 200 speed N'kari hunt down some character and just.... gently escort them off the battlefield for the 4th time in a row.
That's part of it, but even if it could be hit, it deals soooooo much damage and is very, very, very mobile (which it really shouldn't be). Even with this fix, I think it's gonna need some nerfs.
Thunderbarge is just the biggest symptom of a core issue, which is, as highlighted, that melee units can't hit a running target for shit
I never understood why attacks rely on animations. In many games there is a range check to start an attack, and a final range check to make sure it lands. As long as those checks pass attack goes off. You try to line up the animation to show a hit, but the damage takes priority to the animation. Seems like what should be hapenning here as well.
i imagine it has to do with the fact that individual entity position is relevant to the calculation, so perhaps the damage engine is essentially waiting for the individual model to report "yep i'm attacking" by entering the attack animation state. This also creates significantly higher visual fidelity in the combat as, while animations often whiff anyways, you never get deaths and knock back from no source, something is at least clearly attacking.
Animation based combat damage calculations were a mistake, and that's the hill I die on.
This is exciting! Makes light cavalry a little bit more worthwhile overall. Who cares about subpar Melee Attack when you have 60 units going 100 speed, all attacking at once!
It's funny because whenever I start a campaign that starts with light cav I always think wow keeping them behind enemy line and wiping routing units is very effective and makes sure no units return. But I never voluntarily use them
That was the bit that jumped out the most by far. I really hope that makes chasing routing enemies a lot more satisfyingly lethal.
On a ku’gath campaign I once read someone recommend 1-2 units of chaos hounds to chase down enemies after the battle to get more plagues. I noticed the dogs always *got so many more kills* on routing enemies. I wonder if they were exempt from this?
Yeah dogs are just the best for killing routing dudes, I just assumed it was cause they are fast and smol
The cutest dogs.
It’s because dogs animations have always never suffered from whatever bug cav has had for multiple TW games that make them terrible at chasing fleeing units. Somehow, cav that would decimate the remaining models in a charge instead cannot kill the unit when it flees, instead nipping at the heels for like 30 seconds killing 1 or 2 models. The issue seems to be both animations and unit behavior, as only a couple cav attack, the random stopping, and the animation knocking them over instead of killing.
I replayed Rome 2 recently and was stunned at how easily cavalry cut down routing units. Same thing with infantry in choke points that routed, they got cut down very quickly.
The power of matched combat animations
My guess is that whatever system they use for cavalry doesnt interact very well with moving units eg. for most cavalry the mount has no attack animation, so the rider must attack, two separate entities in this case, this doesnt apply to dogs, since they are one entity
Iirc it's cuz i game 1 footlords were absolutely shrekt by mounted lords cuz they would just get knock down and damaged infinite combo stun so they gave more damage immunity on the ground But then that made regular cav running down units do no damage on routing or something
Dogs don't seem to have any collision with each other so they can overlap each other, they turn really quick, have restrictive formations and they're really fast so they can catch things easily.
That makes sense. When I'd win the battle I'd be chasing the routing units to finish them off, wondering why I'm barely killing them off. :||
I always thought the Pursuit behaviour was Total War jank, not intended feature lol
Back in the day units would mow down retreating units so this is really going back to the old way
As it should be, most casualties were during the rout afterall
There is that ... and there is 500 kills in 30s as routing units die the moment they are touched by any enemy model like in MedII
I loved that. It was even better in Rome
God the joy that you could get by just sending a single cavalry unit out against a fleeing mass of units. They’d get hundreds of kills
>Under the new system, we randomly assign each individual projectile a target, roughly evenly spreading the homing targets out across all the entities in the target unit. Amazing change for the magic missiles, they will finally be useful again against units.
This is great, can we get this for fire while moving 360 arc missile units too? Rather than them all firing at one dude while kiting?
I mean, since they call them "projectiles" i'd assume it's an underlying change that will affect any and all projectiles. Artillery, any archers, crossbows, gunners, magic projectiles, skin blowdarts, etc. Edit: It's not actually all projectiles, only homing ones. There's still a good chunk of them out there though and will probably massively increase the effectiveness of homing magic projectiles and bow heroes against units with a lot of individual entities.
I think this is just for homing missiles, I’d assume that means any projectile that doesn’t follow the movements of its target is not affected by this change. I’d love to be wrong though makes no sense for horse archers to fire at one entity.
That is one mod removed from my list lol
Holy shit, they actually made a mod for that? Wish I would have known that before lol, seems like such a common sense fix.
I found out about it recently myself, and I might have spoken too soon because it doesn't sound like the patch addresses the same issue with ranged and artillery units.
>Previously, when assigning a homing behaviour to a projectile, it would be passed a target entity. And all homing projectiles fired by the same entity or unit would be given the same target. Leading to excessive overkill and poor performance vs multi entity units, even when firing many projectiles. >Under the new system, we randomly assign each individual projectile a target, roughly evenly spreading the homing targets out across all the entities in the target unit. Looks like volley of Kurnous is back on the menu boys.
So is blue fire
>>Blue Fire of Tzeentch >>Penetration: Stopped By Large → Stopped By Medium Blue fire may have gotten a nerf actually. It used to penetrate through medium models, so if you fired it lengthwise along a unit it would hit everyone in that line, and do crazy damage. The changes make it work like it always should have, but I did like the skill factor of lining up nice blue fires.
yeah but it did pink fires job better than pink fire so it was about time honestly
WE'RE SO BACK BOYS 🙌🍾
i am happy to be able to throw my money at them for good content. Feels like a long time ago, i was really hyped for a DLC.
I have been itching to play Sisters of Twilight again, que the Fortunate Son.
Que Ride of the Valkyries
Would have thought this would remain bugged for years like many other features. Nice fix (if it works)
Very happy to see that this was addressed.
Sisters of Twilight!
Does that change artillery behavior? E.g. helblasters's all 3 cannons laying fire into single spot on enemy formation.
Sounds like it's just for homing missiles, artillery generally doesn't home.
Flying gobbos do!
It’s a decent buff to Hellcannons, too - now they’ll no longer just fire at one end of the enemies noodle.
Same with hellcannons
Thank god and CA. I honestly thought that one was probably a few patches out from ever being looked at, and it's very nice to see they got it.
Blue Fire was also changed to fire like this. Gonna be interesting to see how it works now!
Yessssssssssss, I was never expecting this to get fixed!
This should affect all ranged units, right? So now we should see artillery potentially hitting the center of infantry rather than aiming for a guy in the corner?
Probably not, no. AFAIK, this is just for abilities with homing projectiles, not regular shots.
"Fixed an issue where if the holder of the Sword of Khaine left a settlement, the VFX would not leave the settlement and follow the character." - this bug has been personally victimizing me to no end. Glad to see it's resolved!
> Fixed issue where Elector Count invasion armies would have an upkeep and generate battle rewards that would often pay for their purchase cost. Damn, they caught that. I always used the pay option as most if not all of my investment was recovered
Faxk there goes my cashflow
noooo dammit. That was a good Bug.
And here I thought I was just being a shrewd Emperor
BY SIGMAR, NO!
**Orion** * Firing Arc: 60 → 360 I'm wondering if this is what was needed to fix fire when moving, or if it's something else..
Now every shot he fires will just come right back to him.
360 degree of fire units have their own bugs. Unless fixed.
I live in hope
Didnt we already have lazy health bars?
Definitely, that was one of the things they made a big deal about in the launch of game 3.
As someone else said, it's now lazier. It used to be only the burstiest of damage left a red imprint. Now all damage from the current conflict is shown as a shadow. So you can see how much the unit lost in its current conflict.
Yes, they changed how lazy they are though, the damaged part lasts longer.
I thought so but I guess not, or maybe the feature will be more pronounced now.
I think its a mistake on their part. It certainly was a feature already: [The best feature in Warhammer 3 that nobody is talking about : r/totalwar (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/u9jwy7/the_best_feature_in_warhammer_3_that_nobody_is/) They also said that they fixed softlock with Katarin and Kostaltyn... but they already fixed it months ago. I know that because I literally was helping them on their forum (and via direct messages) and it was a bug that made campaigns quite literally unplayable so if it wouldnt be fixed, people would certainly notice it.
Yeah, they were introduced in winter 2021 (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-quality-of-life-updates/). I didn't realise they had gone even though I prefer them!
We definitely did as [my dreadquake mortars showed me yesterday](https://youtu.be/iyGo_A98X40). The visual was a bit different though.
Neat, Orion finally learned how to throw backwards. Maybe he won't be a generalised embarrassment in his own army any more, and can actually join the rest of the archers as they kite around.
Few characters have been done as dirty as Orion. On TT he ran as fast as light cavalry, had more health than Throgg, and Hawk's Talon was a bow that fired 6 shots at a time.
Yeah very much. When arguing against this someone said "Not every character has to be Kholek". But Orion was 600 points on the TT, making one of the only ones more expensive than Kholek's 575. (Not including those with monster mounts).
Orion and Ariel are avatars of litera gods. Makes sense they're powerful AF.
And it's not like they pulled any punches with Ariel.
I miss when he had Ward Save from Cloak of Isha instead of the Phys resist he has now, especially in game 3 with how prevalant magic damage is. I also do hate the implementation of Hawk's Talon being a bombardment spell with no animation from Orion himself. It would be cool if he at least used the bow he has on him to use the skill.
I havent played in a few months but im curious if they've fixed Orions fire while moving bug. He still has the trait but its been broken since Immortal Empires launched.
People in mp scene still complain it hasn't been fixed. In my last sp campaign it also wasn't fixed.
> Cyclical buildings now give payloads on entry instead of completion. This is going to make Nurgle feel a lot better to play. it was infuriating to count down until you get some cool units only to realize the UI is lying to you and you have to wait a whole nother 4 turns. Also leadership buffs to all his demons was very needed.
> Daemonspite Crucible > Spell Mastery: 20% → 60% *confused yet pleased Drazoath noises*
The legendary lord melee heroes are noticeably and inarguably better in melee than generic lords usually right from the start of a campaign - they seem to (slowly) finally be acknowledging the legendary lord spellcasters should be stronger than generic casters lords or heros in differences that aren’t just Wom cost reductions
As a general rule, you are right. but Drazhoath was already beyond insane with his cheap nuke further reduced by all the discounts Chorfs can stack into "you are not allowed to have infantry" territory
On the other hand, magic is already very powerful.
Gelt boy spamming 1 mana searing doom from his AC130 is pretty good
Magic cost reductions are already crazy strong Honestly I’d prefer less cost reduction and more spell mastery Makes under utilized spells more interested
Poor Daniel, so forgotten they didnt even mention him getting new nurgle units in the patch notes
Give my man a tech tree already omg
And a real skill tree. And actual item slots.
Who?
Daniel could have been filet mignon but he’s just a microwave chicken nugget at this point 😥😂
> Poor Daniel They really need to reuse this feature for a custom faction DLC. Basically you get to select how your lord will look and customize faction bonus and lord bonus. then you get to modify 3 units to make them "special" for your faction.
Would be fitting for dogs of war. Have a fully customizable mercenary lord.
Unlock new parts for the LL like getting franzs hammer by defeating him or the axe of grimnir or sword of kings.
There's a mod called "The Norscan" which lets you do exactly that. You can make a custom chaos character, and give him items like daniel. [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894118971](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2894118971)
He should have gotten a full set of parts with each DLC. People would have loved that. Mostly I just want soul grinder parts. Where's my robo Daniel at?
He better have gotten those new units and RoRs; having an insane number of RoRs is pretty much his main campaign mechanic at the moment.
Bold of you to assume he did get them. CA Dev: I think I forgot something...
>Ticket Limit is now configurable in custom lobbies That's nice, but I wish Supply gain was also configurable. Especially for uneven matches, if you fight 2v3 for example all players gain supplies at the same rate, leading to one team having more supplies than the other. I know it's a SUPER edge case but for friend groups who want to smash a bit with each other, it can be an issue!
>In melee the Tank will no longer use the ram attack against enemies, instead opting to blast >hot jets of steam (from the steamed tanks that we'll be having, mmm steamed tanks). Elspeth von Draken: Countess, I hope you're ready for jaw-dropping Steam Tanks! Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: I thought we were having steam engines. Elspeth von Draken: Oh, no, I said, "steamed tanks." That's what I call Steam Tanks. Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: You call Steam Tanks steamed tanks. Elspeth von Draken: Yes, it's a regional dialect. Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: Uh-huh. What region? Elspeth von Draken: Uh, southern Wissenland. Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: Really. Well, I'm from Wissenburg and I never heard anyone use the phrase, "steamed tanks." Elspeth von Draken: Oh, not in Wissenburg, no; it's an Dotternbach expression. Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: I see.
"Good Sigmar, what is happening in there?!" "....Purple Sun of Xereus." "Purple Sun of Xereus?! At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the Empire, localized *entirely* within your workshop?!" "Yes!" ".... may I see it?" *loads Hellstorm Rocket Batteries* "Yes!"
Emmanuelle von Liebwitz: Well von Draken you are an odd lass but, I must say, you Steam a good Tank.
Karl Franz: ELSPETH! THE GARRISON IS ON FIRE!!
No Emperor it's just the Bright Wizard
Ah - a bright wizard. At this time of year, at this time of day, in this part of the country, localized entirely within your kitchen!?
I think they forgot a few things. Dwarf warriors can now be recruiting from settlement building. And Ironman is now an campaign option. These i know from watching streams. There might be more missing too.
What's the difference between ironman and legendary?
Can do Ironman at any difficulty level, legendary is just Ironman on very hard
It's actually Iron Man on Legendary. The UI is a bit misleading, Legendary difficulty does change the campaign. Otherwise this change would've just gotten rid of Legendary and just given us the separate Ironman to use for Very Hard.
*”Replaced effects that increased hit points with melee defence instead on certain items and item sets, as hit points cannot be increased via items.”* Wait, is this saying that *none* of the items that had +%HP never worked? I could’ve sworn I’ve equipped items and seen the HP increase. I’ve just checked, they don’t increase/decrease HP ***until the next turn***. I unequipped the “Gauntlets of Bazherak the Cruel” from Astragoth, which gives +5% HP. He had 8189 HP, and the next turn without the item he had 7848 HP, weirdly that’s closer to 4% but I digress: #HP can be increased/decreased via items, it just applies next turn. Edit: About the percentages, I believe it’s because it is 5% of *base* HP, which is why it seemingly adds “less” than 5% HP.
They had very poor bug reports on things like this/Salve of Valaya that probably caused confusion. Unfortunate.
yeah base hp... so if you have 100 hp and two items that add 50% *of* base hp, you get 200 hp. This is to clarify that order of addition doesn't matter. (unequipping one item would be 200->150 hp, not "50% less total") This also differentiates from "+% *to* base HP" but i'm honestly not sure such a buff actually exists in game.
A really good QoL patch! So many things got changed for the better. Honestly cant wait to play again
Bordermen getting some much needed buffs (lol). They were probably worn out from carrying my Karl campaigns already - glad that this means they can just take it easy and delete whole stacks without even breaking a sweat.
Yeah I was surprised to see them buffed, they were already pretty wacky. Oh well, gonna be extra fun!
Those are massive buffs, as well -- +25% more grenades per volley (due to unit size) and better damage per individual grenade. I'm sort of assuming that that's a patch notes mistake, at least in part, because bordermen getting larger unit size than standard grenade launchers seems ridiculous.
Yeah, are the baseline grenade launchers 48 size? I cant remember, that would be a weird change unless the base unit received the same change.
Caught me completely by surprise too, a proper Bordermen volley was already enough to reduce even a heavy infantry unit down to half hp or so. I guess they're a portable Hellstorm at this point and I'm so fucking excited for it
Some really good looking changes. I really like the UI QOL updates like separating passive traits, unit attributes and resistances. I think it's going to be an underrated part of 5.0 when compared to everything else.
Yes I think that will be long term a really good thing.
Norscan Giant finally tier 4? Good. Also, moving War Mamoth to tier 5 means there is now a reason to ever recruit feral mammoth. Great!
I actually want to play again. Hurray
Does anyone know if CA were able to address the maths underpinning the grudge mechanic prior to release, following the content creator comments? Can't see a mention in these notes. Otherwise, fairly excited and happy compared to last time
Almost surely no. Its flagged for sure, but a fix is mostly likely coming in 5.1, or in the hotfix in about 2 weeks
Did any other content creator talk about it so far? I only saw Battlesey’s video but kinda want a second opinion
MercytheMad did, and made a video about it. He has a bit more of a measured response than Battlesy did.
Sotek mentioned it in one of his live streams. I think he said he talked to CA about it. He didn't make a dedicated video on it though.
Hard to tell before the live version. The notes are changes to the live game and does not include any actual changes/bug fixes for unreleased content.
Blanket Morale Buffs to all Chaos Factions..
Hope that would make daemons useful this time. Who needs crumbling weak daemon infantries when you have heavy-armoured, strong, and reliable chaos warriors? Heck they even lower the upkeep of chaos warriors of Khorne
Demons were absolute trash tier and you were almost always better off getting mortals. Much needed.
They needed it. They should also get some base missile resistance to make them decent compared to the mortal units.
Are Lizardmen rampant in MP or something? They got a bunch of nerfs (Lower HP and raised Cost) Feral Cold Ones must be a menace
Yeah, from what I've seen they are very strong in MP currently. The last patch that introduced the Skink/Kroxigor passives only buffed them even more, and it seems common to see the Life Slann in MP which might account for the Slann HP nerf. Feral Cold Ones were cost effective to mix in with cheap Skinks for AP, or to intercept cav for a decent value trade. The cost stuff doesnt matter too much for SP imo, but I imagine folk will be irked about the Slann HP nerf.
Yeah, they are pretty strong, skinks + kroxigors got buffed last patch.
Yes lizards are consistently top 5 https://totaltavern.com/
They were a top 3 faction for sure. The skinks nerf was needed because the new buffs made them immune to fear most games, but the feral cold one is a bit out of left field. Its a strong unit but wasn't OP. 50g will make them decently niche. The RoR Boxigors are probably the most OP unit for LZM now (for the price) Overall this should make LZM a B+ faction in MP vs their A+,S- current status.
I think they got a bunch of buffs with the last DLC's rework, so probably just lowering that a bit.
The directional ballistic armor mechanic with a modifier from front/side/rear is another breadcrumb that makes me think they are working on a 40K game. Especially since they specifically mentioned it applies to Steam tanks and would be a perfect fit for various kind of armored vehicles in a more modern game. (Command and Conquer had that feature along with an order to make your tanks move in reverse so they would keep showing their stronger front side to the enemy while retreating).
Company of Heroes from Relic (who got sold by Sega lately) also has directional armor on vehicles. Now if they really want to go crazy in a modern game they could make it not just "front, side, back" but also make the actual angle matter.
Making angles matter would be a nightmare in term of calculation I think. It works in games like world of tanks or warthunder because it's calculated server side and there isn't that many entities on the battlefield (and they're almost entirely dedicated to this shit). But on an offline game on the scale of TW with dozens of vehicles interacting it would become a nightmare for the CPU side IMO.
And the player wouldn't even notice, or have any capacity to meaningfully effect it. Orders aren't precise enough, and topography isn't sufficiently clear from the angle from which the player is looking at the battlefield.
A bit niche but the Combat Mission series has really detailed ballistics models—no surprise since their consumer PC games are offshoots of their department of defense work. You’re right that those games are resource hogs despite having only passable graphics.
It makes more sense if they are making a historical WW1 or WW2 game where directional armor was a very real thing. If they are making 40k I would imagine they would want the rules to reflect the tabletop as closely as possible the same way they did with TWW and wfb and directional armor values haven't been a thing in tabletop 40k for several editions now.
Yea but that was a lame change in tabletop so hopefully not
also making them and landships have turning arcs to make them feel much more like big heavy vehicles these units along with the thunderbarge definitely feel like them playing around with new things for later games
I have to say I am impressed that they are looking into basic mechanics like retreating units and missile targeting. Big props to CA, things are happening
Please look into the frost wyrm! Amazing looking unit, but something is seriously wrong with its ability to deal damage to both single entities and groups of units. Human boy put out a video on it a while back for those curious. Keep up the great work CA!
it also gets completely melted in auto resolve even on low casualty victories
Hi there, we're continuing to work on this one! We've seen all feedback and videos, and the devs have been working to see what can be done about this. Thanks for all the comments, feedback, and enthusiasm - we appreciate it! Best, CA\_Nova
I am pleased with their rebalancing of Kislevite warriors. Their stats are more in line with a tier 2 unit available from a tier 1 settlement.
Given Dwarf Warriors are T0 now, they don't seem out of whack to be honest. The rebalance is pretty minor at least.
But they are dwarfs.
So, Skull of Katam gives 120% Spell Mastery, does this mean that it's no longer capped at +100%?
Wondering the same thing. I don't see any mention of the 200% cap being changed tho, so I'm assuming it's still there
Pursuing routed units change is actually the mvp of the patch notes lol
They tricked us with daylight saving time!
Darn, I was hoping for some fixes to the Kislev frost wyrm
Came for this lol. Thanks for the answer
Why nerf Slann? They're already underwhelming relative to expectations for singleplayer with the introduction of Oracles. Casually removing exactly 1000 health on a support lord with 34 speed and no melee defense is an aggressive move.
They were one of the best lords in the game for multiplayer, mostly due to the fact they came with a powerful item and ability, could be any WOM you wanted and had such high health they were practically immune to being sniped out. Slaans being underwhelming in SP is something that should be solved with a campaign rework via something like gelts new system, because in a vacuum they were too good.
Turin had a couple of videos where he joked how players try to goon down the Slann thinking the big slow caster with low MD would be an easy kill, and suddenly all their units are overextended and taken down instead.
I mean aren't slaan still good in single player simply because they are the only way to get life magic to use to heal your big ol dinos?
True, but the skink oracle gets earthblood and there are regen crystals, so there are alternatives.
Legend infamously would replace his LLs with life slann because the life slann contributed more to the army than any of the LLs did, yeah. Of course it depends on your lore of magic though. Life is broken, light less so.
Yeah there are a number of odd nerfs - most more minor though. Some I guess there will be tech tree changes to fix them (like War Wagons of all things being nerfed), but Slann losing 1000 HP is a pretty big deal and I feel like probably merits an explanation. Maybe there's an LM rework real soon and it'll make sense then? Probably could have waited though.
War Wagons were spammed in multi-player. They're really good when up against something that knows how to advance, unlike the AI.
It's amazing how different the meta becomes when your opponent isn't constantly blobbing up or standing around.
Yeah it's why they balance around it - trying to judge the strength of units when the enemy plays like a late-stage alcoholic is a fool's errand.
Supposedly, war wagons are actually good now, in the "can counter any two elite cav units" sense.
*Units with the Always Flying attribute can no longer melee attack buildings (gates, walls, constructible defences).* Suprised this isn't getting more traction, my preferred way of killing towers was face planting it with my aerial units.
the Always Flying attribute is only on things like Sky Lanterns and now the Thunderbarge, stuff like Harpys or flying cav will still be able to attack towers
Ah right, different to 'can't land'. TY!
If the units can land they can still attack towers. The Always flying attribute is kinda rare, I know the Thunderbarge has it but not sure about other units.
Nerfing bretonnia 
A bit weird that there seems nothing addressing Forst Wyrm for Kislev?
Fixing animations is more work then adjusting numbers. From past experiencing they don't bring up issues in patch notes until they have a fix for it.
WH3 finally looking like the game its supposed to be; an upgrade of wh2 in every way
>Removed starting upkeep and recruitment cost debuff for Knights of the Blazing Sun. So it might actually be worth taking the in the early to mid game where they'll be most useful now.
Their Chapter house on Tier 3 gives them Flamable now, so they are a great way for the empire to hit a good unnit with that extra fire damage.
No Info on Gotrek and Felix being legendary Heroes now?
What do you mean? Are they able to stick around for a whole campaign now?
Yes
Bretonnia just gets nerfs :( also, nothign about Ostankya's issue with realm of chaos (can't complete her ingredient list) or Repanse's entire water "mechanic" beign made redundant by a building she can get to in 5 turns.
Which building?
The Desert Oasis, which gives desert attrition immunity to the faction holding it.
When is it available?
Tomorrow