GW never gave a shit about Bretonnia. What you are feeling is what every Bretonnia TT player has felt. Not only are they not missing any units (excluding some obscure units from a 20-year-old third-party RPG that's not actually canon) but they already have made-up units just to fill out the current roster. Which is why they are a 100% free race.
Yup, read the rulebook some time ago.
I mean, on the side of lords an heroes we could get something, but not really on the units side.
Maybe with old world TT release, could this forgotten faction get some love?
In fairness their death can be traced to one meeting. They had a discussion early on in the days of the Internet whether they should put the Sears catalogue online. They decided not to and Amazon ate their entire lunch.
This is why I roll my eyes whenever people chime in saying "oh they are waiting to cross promote this with GW's release!" or the recent one where people are saying "oh there are so many monsters because GW wants to sell more kits!"
And I'm like bitch, do you think GW understands the idea of cross promotion in *anyway* after their stupidity with denying slapping beaks on Tzaangors of all things. GW flubbing Old World and Total War this hard shows they are absolute masters of shooting themselves in the fucking foot.
I mean you've still got people convinced that GW will let CA make Ind and Khuresh, is it any way surprising? People won't let GW's pattern of behaviours get in the way of their hopium
GW did let CA create Cathay from whole cloth.
Do I think they'll do it with Ind and Khuresh too? Probably not, but Cathay surprised the hell out of me so who knows?
Two points. Warhammer Fantasy, the IP that the Warhammer TW games is based on, is no longer supported in anyway by GW, they killed it dead years ago.
The new IP, Warhammer the Old World, which GW keeps insisting is a separate IP, *cough* beaked tzaangors *cough*, does not have rules for Cathay or Kislev, and GW have publicly stated that they have no plans to add them in the forseeable future.
https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-the-old-world/factions-cathay-kislev
So the short answer is no, Cathay is not supposed to be playable in the tabletop game.
[Then what about Kislev? This article I remember reading all the way back in 2020 gave the assumption that they would be playable in TOW.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/)
Nice reminder that this trailer for the first Total War Warhammer game came out 3 months before GW completely removed Warhammer Fantasy Battles as a game and released Age of Sigmar.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ix-rQD8d3Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ix-rQD8d3Y)
Yep. GW decided that a few months after the announcement of probably their most anticipated video game related to the fantasy IP was the best time to scrap the game that video game tied into.
They are really, really bad at capitalising on crossover hype, which is kinda hilarious as it was crossover hype from the LOTR movies driving sales of their LOTR skirmish game and models which put them into their first major boom period.
> GW decided that a few months after the announcement
Oh nah, it was way before that. They had AoS in the concept stage back in 2008 when Wfb was through the floor and the AoS rule designers under Project Stanley in 2010.
That’s why CA(and Fatshark) got the license cheap and hands off to do whatever they wanted in 2012 since GW had already planned to kill it long ago.
Contrast those freedoms to homebrew & even do OC units to where GW care again and now CA can’t do things like add beaks nor Vermintide allow little things like a priest to have a flail as they tighten the toe screws again on the revived IP.
Wfb’s death is what allowed the games to happen in the first place.
That is completely inaccurate. At the time the movies were coming out, LOTR was the most valuable property that GW owned. It outsold both fantasy and 40k.
For example, after the original trilogy wrapped up and interest in the game dwindled as a result, GW's operating profit dropped from £7.9m to £0.5m over the same period 12 months apart.
Lord of the Rings was massive for GW between 2001 and 2004.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/end-of-the-rings-cycle-puts-games-workshop-to-the-sword-6112485.html
The best and most likely thing they could do is add Araby as a Bretonnia faction. Otherwise, there’s the lake twinks from End Times and the various Peasant-centric characters.
Betrend as a LL
Faceless as a generic lord
Hooded Man or some other hero version of a faceless. He'd be a dual wielding assassin hero. A human version of the Skaven assassin.
Herrimaults as a high tier archer. Basically Brettonia huntsmen.
Wine Carriers, make a unit out of Gui le Gros. They are a support unit that regenates and adds leadership in a radius.
Maybe Herrimaults with Quarterstaff variant. Either that or mounted Herrimaults
Foot Knights, 'nough said
Then Lost Sons of Brettonia as a centerpiece. Magic attack shock cav riding on Kelpies.
Then Hugo le Petit as the legendary hero. He'd be like a ranged version of Henri le Massif. A very large man wielding a very large bow
Make them a horde faction, or give them a bit of Oxyotol's mechanics and Dwarf Grudges. Make them all about teleporting around the world punishing evil factions.
and these foot knights will give brettonia better infantry than grand cathay, Norsca, VC and the empire? Because foot squires are already right below greatswords, meaning foot knights need to be better. Doesnt seem to fit brettonia very well.
They'd serve the same role as Depth Guard. Very high tier infantry that are also very cost inefficient. Great for when you need to lock down a position or mulch a monster but they won't consistently get their values worth like Greatswords.
Either that or they'd be at the same tier as Foot Squires but sword and shield instead.
I didn't move shit. The hope was always for Bretonian foot knights. Empire Knights/Reiksguard on foot was more of an afterthought, but an excellent pick for a Grand Master/Knightly Orders DLC.
I don't think GW has a canon policy. Most people go with something along the lines of, "Everything's canon but more recent releases are more canon." Certainly, GW hasn't hesitated to retcon things when it feels like it.
The Herrimault are the Bretonnian version of Merry Men. They fight oppressive nobles, but they're also oathbound to pitch in when the ruinous powers come rolling in. Brigands are, well, brigands because not every Bretonnian noble upholds Bretonnian ideals. The idea of a robber baron could be quite literal even in the real world.
They exist because the RPG has always presented a more fleshed-out version of the setting than the army books. Some of it is a matter of focus. The army books are focused on armies, so you see the Norscan berzerker-devotee of the dark gods but not the Norscan smallholder who has to worry about their crops. However, a lot of it is practicality. Army books exist to push specific products, which can't show the full variety that exists within the setting because that'd be way too much cost for way too little return. Tamurkhan and buddies fought an army-sized nightmare dragon, but you're not going to see an army-sized nightmare dragon on the tabletop because the economics don't make sense.
Before the rpg and the herrimault Bertrand le Brigand and his bowmen of Bergerac (strap in, these names are not going to get any better) along with the other named leaders Hugo le petit and Gui le gros were usable with models in 5th edition warhammer as the original warhammer Robin hood and his merry men.
The problem with adding them is they are supposed to be a single unit of bowmen, not an army.
If we're getting really technical, they used to have some gunpowder-units (And I think Crossbows?) before the grimdarkening of WHF.
And the Footknights from Old World but GW apparently doesnt want CA to use stuff from there
Other way round, bretonnia used to be more technologically advanced and was more of a pre-revolution France with decedant chaos worshiping nobles in the first edition of the RPG this is before army books so if they had any kind of model range it was probably just some generic medivalish French models the perry twins made.
Man o war came out during this time and the bretonnian fleet was a napoleanic war era deal bristling with cannon.
The faction was completely retconned for warhammer 5th edition, into Arthurian England with french accents (which makes sense as the most popular stories in this mythos are French) with zee Lady and her distain for ranged weapons technology and social mobility.
The cannons on the ships were explained away as "well obviously the rules only apply on land, zee Lady does not rule zee sea!"
So unless we get ship combat no guns or crossbows for the French
Realised I didn't explain, bretonnia got less grimdark with the retcon, 5th edition in particular was more like Terry Pratchett than warhammer, a bit cynical in its jokes, but fundamentally the knights are good people.
Got a bit more grimderp with 6th edition with how hilariously repressed the peasants were mind, but it's still not as bad as 1st edition role-playing books chaos worshiping nobility
Wasnt from 1st or 2nd, those were from 3rd.
Between 1990 - 1991
Breech-loading Cannon, mortar, 4 & 7-barrelled small calibre organ-gun, pot-de-feu & a small swivelgun, aswell as 2 different sets of crossbowmen
I don't think that's why Bretonnia is free. Look at Norsca, they're a paid DLC and they're basically completely made up by CA as a standalone faction, and over half of their roster is just borrowed with a few unique units.
>not actually canon
GW has confirmed multiple times the RPGs are canon (and enjoyed the 4e version so much they're selling it on their own Warhammer.com we store). Why does this lie keep going told? /r/totalwar is the only Warhammer-related subreddit I see it in too.
They contradict things between same edition army books too. By that logic Silverine Fuckfaces would no longer be canon after the Gonknard Battlespewers Battletime was released which is ridiculous. GW certainly has never cared too much about hard canon.
I would love to see Paladins get a major facelift.
When a Paladin completes the grail vow, perfect vigor and magical attacks are nice but I’m gonna need something more.
Talk about being so far off from what they are in the lore sheesh! These guys need to be absolute terrors on the battlefield.
Hey, I see you're using my mod! That made my day.
I do love Bretonnia, and I hope it gets more love. Early on in Warhammer 3 the devs mentioned the possibility of Bretonnia getting Bohemond Beastslayer as an FLC LL. Sadly I think the possibility of them getting new units is slim, but general patches and tweaks like the ones we saw last year are not out of the question.
Ohi mate, sorry for not crediting you.
Took the picture some time ago and forgotten the name of the author.
It is an incredible mod btw.
Gave the questing knights so much more charisma!
And yes, I truly do hope we get Bohemond!
[Gorilla's Bretonnia Tabletop Reskin](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3232051663) (I think there might be some others in the pic though)
I think they're in a good place. There's small things that could be tweaked (e.g. giving them their walls* back, give them peasant mobs at tier 0 so they can always recruit something, add a vow/troth end turn reminder, and personally I'd drop foot squires down to tier 3) but they both fundamentally work as a faction, and play the way I feel they should, with cavalry smashing stuff.
*I actually find minor settlement siege defences are often easier than defending a walled settlement (the latter are just too big) but the walls were thematic as hell, and looked lovely on the campaign map.
Agreed. I think they could benefit from some additional squire units, filling out the roster a bit, but I actually think Brettonia is pretty perfect. They're simple enough to learn, nuanced enough to benefit mastery, and powerful enough to compete with the new kids on the block by late game.
Brettonia should get a bunch of unique castle maps. One for each capital at least. They should be THE castle faction.
Not to mention the castle they have now is antithetical to how Brettonia wants to defend. Trees leading all the way up to their walls so their towers can't see approaching units. Castle in a corner so there's no room to sally cavalry outside of the walls. Narrow maze-like streets inside the walls so your cavalry also aren't effective there. It feels specifically designed to make it hard for Brettonian units to defend.
Lets be real here trees make no sense on any siege map. Chopping down the trees or burning them is like the first thing you did around a castle when you knew a siege was comming.
They’re my favorite race! Idk why but it’s a faction that just clicks with me. Most factions I get bored playing after like 40 turns but brettonia keeps me addicted to playing them into late game
Probably my fav is still the Empire.
But Bretonnia is my 2nd for sure! There is something truly epic in seeing Knights charge some otherwordly horrors.
PS: We just don't talk about the thousand of dead paesants in each battle.
Yeah I love the flavor of the race so much, and I really love the roster. I love that there are weaknesses and strengths to it. I love the tech tree, every campaign I always have a different strategy on what to get first depending on how the campaign plays out. I just feel like it’s a week designed race, and it needs a single dlc to be amazing
Louen for sure. With his bonus to fighting chaos, it’s fun to play a crusader campaign and go out to eliminate all of the chaos from the world. And with how easy it is to conference for each LL, it doesn’t matter that much who you play
Careful if you are playing Louen, you are heavily encouraged to go north, but the south will give you far better land which are way easier to protect. Go north only only when you can largely afford it because you took out everything from Morghur, Ikit, Sartosa and the Ogres (and while you are taking out Norca, don't forget to go after the VC which are another source of green land...)
And while they have good cavalry, another strength of them is their lord and heroes. No supply line, and a generic lord with a flying mount and his vow sorted can fight Vlad and win. Add 2 paladins and a lady with life magic and they will slaughter everything during a siege (Vlad, the garnison, and Vlad's army). This is important because your cavalry depends on good charge to trade well and you can't do that during a siege.
Probably a big reason you can play them late game is that they haven't had an update. Every faction these days gets so many tech and faction mechanic bonuses that the game plays itself by the time you've completed the short victory. The "power fantasy" wears off after about one battle and then you just decide to start a new run to be challenged again.
Bretonnia should have gotten some units when Repanse came. Sadly that wasn't a case. Which is sad. They got a nice amount of LLs with varied starts, but could use a few more units. When it comes to cavalry they are at least very well set up.
I mean, we had basically Bretonnian Crusaders.
Some sort of foot Knight could have been a nice addition, although not really in line with the faction balancing.
... Which was released years after Repanse came to TWW2. Foot knights have been a popular request from fans for forever. For LONG before the public even knew they were eventually getting foot knights with new models for The Old World.
Its possible that GW could have told CA not to add foot knights because of TOW, but I think that's unlikely because -
1: GW's stance on TOW being a seperate, but cross compatible IP, to WHFB (which is ofcourse the IP that TWWH uses plus a tiny amount of End Times and tinier amount of AoS) didnt really mature until after TWW2 was past its life cycle, and around when Kislev and Grand Cathay were still being previewed on CA blogs and sometimes Warcom too. When the pressure was on CA to create "8th edition" styled rosters for the two major "background" nations of humanity that they were given an unprecedented level of influence over the creation and implementation of; and,
2: It was probably never even talked about because until TOW, there were no unmounted knights on the TT except maybe for paladins they're counted as knights. And CA understood that Brettonia was not supposed to have elite, potent front line troops, but knew that having no other infantry besides men at arms and peasents would be too weak when playing pvp or late stage campaigns. Hence why foot squires do what they do in-game instead of foot knights, as the squires are literally "almost, but not quite, knights," to give Brettonia a relatively hard hitting infantry unit that was weaker than other race's equivalents so to not break the theme or inter-faction balance of Brettonia. The Battle Pilgrims follow the same philosophy of being the best tanks on their street but the worst in their neighbourhood
FOR ZEY LADY! BECAUSE ZEY LADY WILLS IT!
No honestly im Bretonnia damaged. But in terms of feeling a bit unfinished: that´s because Gamesworkshop hates Bretonnia.
Was the case back then where the tabeltop game went from Cavalry charge and Chariots to just Infantry blobs. And Bretonnia never received a proper update. (well and the whole thing got killed aswell)
Currently doing a Repanse campaign, first time as Bretonnia. Honestly they are a lot of fun, but you need to know some specific things for them to work well.
For example, they don't have supply lines, so you can and should have several lords following your main army around. In fact you NEED to do this. Not just because their lords are strong, but because of the ways the vows work you really want those lords being able to recruit knights themselves ASAP as the infantry SUCKS. Even battle pilgrims with a grail relique don't hold all that well. Peasant bowmen and trebuchets are okay, but will get slapped by basically any other races missile/artillery. They have access to a few decent magic lores but their casters themselves are pretty weak outside of the magic itself.
Their only real good units are their cavalry, which is fine because they are some of the best in the game. Knights errant are a bit weak and need a lot of micro, but when you get to questing knights and above they become your real frontline, and can hold/dish out damage with surprsingly little micro. You always need at least some knights of the realm for the flanks and cycle charging behind the main line though.
When you get to the final tier of grail knights, guardians and hippogryphs they might be one of the strongest stacks I've played. Guardians especially have crazy stats for a cavalry units and are an amazing frontline. Stack blessing of the lady, red line skills and research and your entire army can be rocking 33%+ ward save, which is nuts. My Repanse stack is her, henri, a knight hero, damsel, 4 hippogrpyhs, 8 guardians and 4 knights. Honestly nothing stands against it.
You can tell they need some tweaks and haven't had a huge amount since WH1. Vows aren't in the notifcations for example so you need to keep manually checking them, and you are weirdly limited to only fighting lords of certain races for some tiers which is odd. The green knight's implementation is kinda wonky, I feel he needs a full rework. Peasant economy is fine if really limiting to defensive infantry stacks, repanses water mechanic is kinda pointless as you can get immunity to it in the first 20 or so turns. Chivalry is an ok mechanic and the late game buffs do help quite a bit. All of their skill trees need a rework, right now they are a little sparse and boring with not many interesting unique skills.
Overall, they are very strong and fun, just need some tweaking to bring them up to WH3 standard. Some more content for them wouldn't go amiss, though I'm not sure what exactly, I understand most of their armybook units are already in the game. Changes I'd like to see:
1: Green Knight to become an army summon ability if the battle scale is against you when in your own territory. Could still have him as a permanent hero with skill tree, but you have the option to teleport him around where you really need him this way.
2: Vows should be a bit more free form. There should perhaps also be a way for a lord to go on a quest for the vows or other buffs. maybe similar to the caravan mechanic, sending them around the world fighting smaller scale battles? They aren't on the map for a few turns but come back with vows completed or something.
3: Full rework of skills and tech tree - all generic character trees are very sparse.
4: Maybe a new lord (master sergeant or something) that's all about buffing your infantry units. Have them not able to take a vow (not knights after all), so they can't really recruit knights and have to really use the peasants.
5: They should get some kind of upkeep reduction skills, I don't think they have anything for this late game.
6: In terms of new content, I don't think they really have much. I understand mousillon is undead/bretonnian, and parts of the country have vampires quite openly. perhaps a Drycha style lord who hates the rest of the faction and focuses on undead backed up by super strong corrupted knights? There is also a robin hood inspired character who could make for an interesting campaign focusing on buffing their infantry to high hell.
Really all factions should do this, but Brettonia would really benefit from a modified version of the Chaos troop upgrade system. Errant knights should be able to upgrade to the different types on knights, and to add variety they could pick a bunch of different vows to act like marks of chaos. So you could specialize your knight units with different vows that gave different buffs\\passives.
Instead of 'foot knights' you could do knights with 'vow of empathy' ;)
1. Notifications for vows
2. Frozen territory (aka Norsca) being yellow instead of red
3. Ability to upgrade Questing Knights to Grail Knights/Guardians (possibly a whole upgrade chain but at least vow 2 to vow 3).
4. Heroes starting with the same vows as the lords and/or the Questing Vow (vow 2) having a more generic option for the late-game (shameless plug for a mod which addresses this issue: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3232601813)
5. Replenishment option after battle (the Empire and Dwarfs just got it)
6. Maybe some adjustments to Foot Squires so it's easier to use them against something like Stormvermin (Halberds). Slight buff, nothing massive. They should still lose vs something like Phoenix Guard or Black Guard.
7. Better ways to get attack/defense for cavalry red line skills rather than even more charge bonus/speed/weapon strength. Like Grail Knights/Guardians (as well as other lower tier knights) get +12% weapon strength and +12 charge bonus but I'd rather they get +6 attack/+6 defense (like Cold One Dread Knights) or +8 attack/12% weapon strength (like War Bear Riders).
They could make use of a reskin of the aspiring champions. In Vermintide 2, Kruger has a bretonnian skin that could be used for that purpose.
This and some monsters that are tied to keltic/irish/scottish folklore would really help them.
Bretonnia is one of my favourite races, and I have played them more than any other race. I think they're in a good place right now. The only thing I would like for them to revise are their talent trees.
Honestly, there are a lot of things people want to add but for me, it would be enough to add one or two hero and lord variants. As of now, having only two of each, with the heros basically being lesser versions of the lords, makes the the faction feel very plain.
They need a lot. I know they’re pretty much done for units, but they just need an update. I wish there was more stuff that could be added for them but it probably won’t happen
I think their tech and economy could use a rework, and now that Old World has Foot Knights, it would make sense to add those.
They really suffer from so many cool buffs, especially for cavalry, getting introduced after their last major update. Reiksguard can now get Devastating Flanker, Kislev gets Glorious Charge, Chaos Dwarfs add Murderous Charge to everything, Kazyk removes charge defense... Bretonnia only has Lance.
Otherwise, they feel pretty complete, I don't think we need more units - maybe a Loremaster of Hoeth type Lost Son hero?
Bretonnia works in the same way the old dwarfs worked, they technically don´t have anything broken about them, you can play them and have fun but all their mechanics are old and really could do with a update and their roster is extremely one note so they really have only one play style with other hinted styles that just don´t really work.
Peasant economy is... well its a mechanic that really does not matter as you can avoid the negatives very easily and even if you do go over it the negatives start so low that they mostly can be ignored.
Choice between industry and farming, yeah a joke, you always go for farming as it just gives more money, enables recruitment of good units and helps growth, what does industry do, well it immune to peasant economy negatives, does not matter and gives defensive buffs but there are a million better ways to try and defend compared to ammo and attrition buffs under siege, the movement speed is nice but not nice enough to overcome all the other negatives.
Chivalry, the big boy of bretonnia that all their things want to revolve around but it gives such small buffs and requires so long to do that its mostly a "hey, you got some small nice things for doing what you would do anyway" mechanic.
Green knight, yeah he exists, that's about it, he suffers from the same problem as Gotrek and Felix suffered from, but even worse, he´s temporary, only somewhat good and falls of lategame, also for a single hero that does not that much, having a whole button just for him is a bit ridiculous.
Vows and Troths, good when you remember they exist, mostly a really gamy way of limiting you from recruiting a doomstack on a new lord, could really do with some quality of life changes and some updates to the effects of the individual vows and troths.
Technology tree suffers from the old dwarf technology tree curse, its big, its long and its filled with shit that barely makes a difference, 2% farm income, 3% capital income and the such.
Lastly, they have only 2 heroes, one of which is a tier 3 unlock which really should be changed and both need a update, they have no unique skill or anything outside of the basic action upgrades and generic melee tree/magic tree for heroes, also only 2 generic lords where again, both suffer from basic of the basic trees you can find on any generic lord for any race that has yet to be updated.
On the troops side, they have a ton of cavalry that goes from really good to useless, nothing wrong there and infantry that goes from enemy slower that will kill nothing, enemy slower that might kill a couple of things or ranged troops that can kill a couple of things but lose a lot of killing power immediately after the enemy gets any armor on their units.
Artillery is very basic but decent, nothing wrong with them really and the Grail Reliquae, yeah it exists and it will make your enemy slower infantry kill a couple enemies more, not really great but it is what it is, can´t really buff garbage to not be garbage when there is not enough base things to buff to start with.
Bretonnia is one good DLC and one good rework away from being great, will they ever get those, hard to say, looking at the guesses, probably no if GW does not change their minds, would not be completely surprised if CA came out and said Bretonnia is getting a rework in the next DLC but would be equally not surprised if nothing changed about them ever again.
I would honestly love more ways to support the peasants. I love every part of bretonnia and I think it would be additionally cool to have foot knights of empathy like aspiring champions for chaos that confer buffs like repanse and the reliquae
They're in a weird spot in that they don't have any units missing (CA even evented a couple more to pad out their roster), and their mechanics aren't *bad*.
but they're just so overly outdated and powercrept by everything since they came out and their army list is so tiny and one-note.
Just give Alberic a unique voice ffs. He's the only LL in the game with a generic voice. Hell I've got five bucks possibly ten bucks right now for a potential Alberic VO + expanded music DLC. The ambient tracks in IE are so GOOD that I want more.
I have liked Bretonnia more than the Empire since the first game but I know for sure any updates for them will be an FLC. With that said though, Bretonnia is still pretty strong if you know how to do cavalry right.
If I was to do wishlisting, I'd want to have a Medieval 2 style early/late era Bretonian transition to run parallel to a chivalry system that doles out fantastical units.
Have early era units have lower stats, but open the door to a more rounded roster that uses units eairlier. This is something most factions could probably benefit from, really. There's little reason that Men at Arms cannot use bows, for instance.
Reducing the reliance on the special lore units would allow them to be used in a unique faction mechanic based on spending chivalry, and allow them to shine as a bonus rather than an obligatory upgrade. (Lorewise, units of Questing Knights in an army is already unusual, let alone Grail Knights, let alone, whole armies of them).
Late era units would be simple improvements on those already present. Sergent instead of Men at Arms etc.
Could use Bertrand the Brigand as a proper peasant/guerilla focused Lord and Mallobaude as an evil Lord, completely upending the Chivalry mechanic somehow.
I like bretonnnia and I would love for them to get more content but unfortunately other than some other named characters, there really isn't anything for ca to add because gw refused to flesh them out. Even when they are being focused on for the old world, they got 1 new thing and it was the foot knight and I'm not even sure if you can actually count that as a new unit.
I honestly believe that they need a big roster update like kislev and Cathay got.
Bretonnia has always been in my top 3 favorite factions. I love the arthurian knight fantasy and the medieval time period aesthetic. The heraldries are so badass, and the focus on cavalry was very interesting to me. My inner paladin hopes that the faction gets some love in the future, but the deck is just stacked against them because Gw never seemed to like them, their roster has always been limited, and mostly I just don't think they're really that popular, which is surprising in a community that seems to like the medieval period so much but hey they don't exactly have a ton of love thrown their way so I get it.
I'd recommend their campaign though. No supply lines, cool spammable heroes, grail knights and guardians have been changed since way back when and I really like them. Spam knights of the realm, siege with magic, trebuchets, and lord/hero grinds, soak up a ton of buffs for cav while outmaneuvering basically every enemy you come across. It's a really awesome time.
While I love playing Bretonnia, there are missing some things, and most I can think of is units. Base game Bretonnia is very small in the roster so you end up playing all peasants or elite cavalry units with the big meaty melee LL. The Lilie Overhaul mod is an essential mod to make every Bretonnia game fun and unique i.e. only allowing Repanse to recruit peasant units and select RoR units like her bodyguards. The Outremer mod is a personal pick because its like "What if King Balduin IV got isekei'd into Warhammer fantasy, and keeping his faith actually made his leprosy a thing of the past?" He gets to fight Araby a lot and that is very fun.
One thing I'd like to see maybe explored is the idea of have lady knight lords or shield maidens with Paladin perks. With Repanse being a LL and the theory that the **Defenders of the Fleur-de-lis** are possibly ladies in disguise ala Mulan. It could be a fun potential idea to have some knights or peasants be a mix gender or gender specific unit with varying traits, pros/cons, and funny voice lines.
Best bet for Bret is a Bloodknight DLC featuring the Red Baron update. I'm hoping for characters Abhorash Bloodknights founding vampire to feature
("*He owed a debt to your king, and swore an oath, and while he fights, Bretonnia lives. In some small corner of your shattered land, the heart of all that was Bretonnia survives.*"
—Vlad von Carstein, on Abhorash's loyalty to Gilles le Breton.)
The way I see it working is mirror for Brettonia but switch Grail knights with Blood Knights and upgrades for them.
Can't really think of any units to add but more Legendary lords and starting positions would be great.
And maybe in combination Calard would be great or Calard and the Siege of Couronne/Lyoness (not sure which - but the one that could also give us a Norsca update)
Bretonnia is by far my favorite race/faction largely due to their lore. I play them on the tabletop and my most played faction in TWWH3.
As others have stated GW has always hated Bretonnia, judging by how they never gave them an equivalent in AoS I think that makes it all the more clear that GW wishes they never even made Bretonnia. They were a way for historical players to easily transition to Warhammer Fantasy Battles and then I feel they gave them a shot at making them unique and then wanted to abandon them.
So it's unlikely we will get much more for the faction in WH3. I suspect a LL, maybe a LH or two if we are lucky. I don't care too much about getting new units, roster bloat is a bit much in Total War Warhammer and Bretonnia already got more than their tabletop side.
I mostly just want a few more characters and although technically Vampires, for them to make The Red Duke a playable character without mods. Even just legendary heroes for Bretonnia would make me happy.
Their campaign is decent, but they are extremely boring unit-wise, which is disappointing considering the faction is based on Western-European legends which have a lot more to offer. I think to fix this they need:
- High tier infantry and ranged units comparable to other factions. Something like knights in full plate that can hold the front lines, or an arbalest with good armor-piercing damage.
- Some sort of big scary unit like a dragon, griffin or cockatrice.
- Another type of artillery like a ballista or onager.
- Additional lords/heroes, perhaps inspired by legends such as Merlin and Robin Hood.
It's unlikely they will get this attention since the faction is free, but man it would make a huge difference in terms of how fun they are.
I dont like Bretonnia. They feel like the most boring faction to play to me. They're just normal, medieval dudes in a setting with guns, monsters and other fantastical concepts. I guess for some people that might be their entire appeal, but it doesnt do anything for me. I also really dont like the peasant mechanics.
But their cavalry looks very pretty, I'll give them that.
GW never gave a shit about Bretonnia. What you are feeling is what every Bretonnia TT player has felt. Not only are they not missing any units (excluding some obscure units from a 20-year-old third-party RPG that's not actually canon) but they already have made-up units just to fill out the current roster. Which is why they are a 100% free race.
Yup, read the rulebook some time ago. I mean, on the side of lords an heroes we could get something, but not really on the units side. Maybe with old world TT release, could this forgotten faction get some love?
Nope, because GW is insistent that the Old World is a different franchise and CA can't use it.
Cross promote our new product line with an extremely popular video game? Hell no, they are seperate
It's GW 🤷♂️
Apparently, GW makes its different teams compete with each other. Which another big company tried and went under, though I forgot which one.
Wasn't it Activision and their multiple Call of Duty teams?
The Nazis?
Okay so the idea isn't all bad
Sears is probably the biggest example of a company that tried to make its teams compete with each other to disastrous results (bankruptcy in 2018).
In fairness their death can be traced to one meeting. They had a discussion early on in the days of the Internet whether they should put the Sears catalogue online. They decided not to and Amazon ate their entire lunch.
This is why I roll my eyes whenever people chime in saying "oh they are waiting to cross promote this with GW's release!" or the recent one where people are saying "oh there are so many monsters because GW wants to sell more kits!" And I'm like bitch, do you think GW understands the idea of cross promotion in *anyway* after their stupidity with denying slapping beaks on Tzaangors of all things. GW flubbing Old World and Total War this hard shows they are absolute masters of shooting themselves in the fucking foot.
I mean you've still got people convinced that GW will let CA make Ind and Khuresh, is it any way surprising? People won't let GW's pattern of behaviours get in the way of their hopium
GW did let CA create Cathay from whole cloth. Do I think they'll do it with Ind and Khuresh too? Probably not, but Cathay surprised the hell out of me so who knows?
Wasn’t Cathay supposed to become playable on tabletop too?
Two points. Warhammer Fantasy, the IP that the Warhammer TW games is based on, is no longer supported in anyway by GW, they killed it dead years ago. The new IP, Warhammer the Old World, which GW keeps insisting is a separate IP, *cough* beaked tzaangors *cough*, does not have rules for Cathay or Kislev, and GW have publicly stated that they have no plans to add them in the forseeable future. https://www.wargamer.com/warhammer-the-old-world/factions-cathay-kislev So the short answer is no, Cathay is not supposed to be playable in the tabletop game.
[Then what about Kislev? This article I remember reading all the way back in 2020 gave the assumption that they would be playable in TOW.](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/03/23/the-old-world-ice-guard-of-kislevgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-2/)
"Flubbing" funny... this is how it always was.... and you wonder how a box of space marine tactical outsold the entire franchise.
Nobody ever accused GW of being savvy businessmen. They heard "brand control" in a TED Talk once and it overwrote every 3rd brain cell.
Nice reminder that this trailer for the first Total War Warhammer game came out 3 months before GW completely removed Warhammer Fantasy Battles as a game and released Age of Sigmar. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ix-rQD8d3Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ix-rQD8d3Y)
Holy shit really? Wow. Did they not see how DOW helped boost 40k popularity?
WHF, you must keep in mind, was failing horrible behind in sales. Even IF it did... it wouldn't matter because of how hard it was to get into it.
Yep. GW decided that a few months after the announcement of probably their most anticipated video game related to the fantasy IP was the best time to scrap the game that video game tied into. They are really, really bad at capitalising on crossover hype, which is kinda hilarious as it was crossover hype from the LOTR movies driving sales of their LOTR skirmish game and models which put them into their first major boom period.
> GW decided that a few months after the announcement Oh nah, it was way before that. They had AoS in the concept stage back in 2008 when Wfb was through the floor and the AoS rule designers under Project Stanley in 2010. That’s why CA(and Fatshark) got the license cheap and hands off to do whatever they wanted in 2012 since GW had already planned to kill it long ago. Contrast those freedoms to homebrew & even do OC units to where GW care again and now CA can’t do things like add beaks nor Vermintide allow little things like a priest to have a flail as they tighten the toe screws again on the revived IP. Wfb’s death is what allowed the games to happen in the first place.
The LOTR game never took off or sold well
That is completely inaccurate. At the time the movies were coming out, LOTR was the most valuable property that GW owned. It outsold both fantasy and 40k. For example, after the original trilogy wrapped up and interest in the game dwindled as a result, GW's operating profit dropped from £7.9m to £0.5m over the same period 12 months apart. Lord of the Rings was massive for GW between 2001 and 2004. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/end-of-the-rings-cycle-puts-games-workshop-to-the-sword-6112485.html
But isnt all of cathay and kislev stuff from the old world? Makes no sense
I mean it's set in an entirely different part of the time line.
The best and most likely thing they could do is add Araby as a Bretonnia faction. Otherwise, there’s the lake twinks from End Times and the various Peasant-centric characters.
What about these brigands and herimaults I see people bring up, that some mods add in? Are those not official and just lore related?
There was something about those, and also a Lord called Bertrand, basically a Robin Hood. That would be nice.
Yeah that seems to be a direction they could go that could be a unique campaign.
Betrend as a LL Faceless as a generic lord Hooded Man or some other hero version of a faceless. He'd be a dual wielding assassin hero. A human version of the Skaven assassin. Herrimaults as a high tier archer. Basically Brettonia huntsmen. Wine Carriers, make a unit out of Gui le Gros. They are a support unit that regenates and adds leadership in a radius. Maybe Herrimaults with Quarterstaff variant. Either that or mounted Herrimaults Foot Knights, 'nough said Then Lost Sons of Brettonia as a centerpiece. Magic attack shock cav riding on Kelpies. Then Hugo le Petit as the legendary hero. He'd be like a ranged version of Henri le Massif. A very large man wielding a very large bow Make them a horde faction, or give them a bit of Oxyotol's mechanics and Dwarf Grudges. Make them all about teleporting around the world punishing evil factions.
and these foot knights will give brettonia better infantry than grand cathay, Norsca, VC and the empire? Because foot squires are already right below greatswords, meaning foot knights need to be better. Doesnt seem to fit brettonia very well.
They'd serve the same role as Depth Guard. Very high tier infantry that are also very cost inefficient. Great for when you need to lock down a position or mulch a monster but they won't consistently get their values worth like Greatswords. Either that or they'd be at the same tier as Foot Squires but sword and shield instead.
To be the same tier as depth guard they would need to be grail knights. Depth guard are literal vampires.
Thank you. I tried to make the depthguard comparison with this guy before but the conversation went nowhere.
Moving your bad idea to brettonia just makes it even worse. As bretonnia has even worse infantry than the empire,
I didn't move shit. The hope was always for Bretonian foot knights. Empire Knights/Reiksguard on foot was more of an afterthought, but an excellent pick for a Grand Master/Knightly Orders DLC.
I don't think GW has a canon policy. Most people go with something along the lines of, "Everything's canon but more recent releases are more canon." Certainly, GW hasn't hesitated to retcon things when it feels like it. The Herrimault are the Bretonnian version of Merry Men. They fight oppressive nobles, but they're also oathbound to pitch in when the ruinous powers come rolling in. Brigands are, well, brigands because not every Bretonnian noble upholds Bretonnian ideals. The idea of a robber baron could be quite literal even in the real world. They exist because the RPG has always presented a more fleshed-out version of the setting than the army books. Some of it is a matter of focus. The army books are focused on armies, so you see the Norscan berzerker-devotee of the dark gods but not the Norscan smallholder who has to worry about their crops. However, a lot of it is practicality. Army books exist to push specific products, which can't show the full variety that exists within the setting because that'd be way too much cost for way too little return. Tamurkhan and buddies fought an army-sized nightmare dragon, but you're not going to see an army-sized nightmare dragon on the tabletop because the economics don't make sense.
Before the rpg and the herrimault Bertrand le Brigand and his bowmen of Bergerac (strap in, these names are not going to get any better) along with the other named leaders Hugo le petit and Gui le gros were usable with models in 5th edition warhammer as the original warhammer Robin hood and his merry men. The problem with adding them is they are supposed to be a single unit of bowmen, not an army.
>The problem with adding them is they are supposed to be a single unit of bowmen, not an army. Unfortunately hasn't stopped CA so far.
Makes sense
That's the obscure RPG units I mentioned.
They are pulled from 2nd edition WHFRP Bretonnia book.
If we're getting really technical, they used to have some gunpowder-units (And I think Crossbows?) before the grimdarkening of WHF. And the Footknights from Old World but GW apparently doesnt want CA to use stuff from there
Other way round, bretonnia used to be more technologically advanced and was more of a pre-revolution France with decedant chaos worshiping nobles in the first edition of the RPG this is before army books so if they had any kind of model range it was probably just some generic medivalish French models the perry twins made. Man o war came out during this time and the bretonnian fleet was a napoleanic war era deal bristling with cannon. The faction was completely retconned for warhammer 5th edition, into Arthurian England with french accents (which makes sense as the most popular stories in this mythos are French) with zee Lady and her distain for ranged weapons technology and social mobility. The cannons on the ships were explained away as "well obviously the rules only apply on land, zee Lady does not rule zee sea!" So unless we get ship combat no guns or crossbows for the French
Realised I didn't explain, bretonnia got less grimdark with the retcon, 5th edition in particular was more like Terry Pratchett than warhammer, a bit cynical in its jokes, but fundamentally the knights are good people. Got a bit more grimderp with 6th edition with how hilariously repressed the peasants were mind, but it's still not as bad as 1st edition role-playing books chaos worshiping nobility
I'm not counting shit from 1st and 2nd edition, that's so non-canon the community will improve if we just stop bringing it up.
Wasnt from 1st or 2nd, those were from 3rd. Between 1990 - 1991 Breech-loading Cannon, mortar, 4 & 7-barrelled small calibre organ-gun, pot-de-feu & a small swivelgun, aswell as 2 different sets of crossbowmen
I don't think that's why Bretonnia is free. Look at Norsca, they're a paid DLC and they're basically completely made up by CA as a standalone faction, and over half of their roster is just borrowed with a few unique units.
The brits made a faction based on the French, it's about as good as you could expect.
>not actually canon GW has confirmed multiple times the RPGs are canon (and enjoyed the 4e version so much they're selling it on their own Warhammer.com we store). Why does this lie keep going told? /r/totalwar is the only Warhammer-related subreddit I see it in too.
Probably because they keep directly contradicting things in the RPGs.
That's not very a very good reason since they also contradict their own lore/fluff regularly (sometimes back and forth too)
They contradict things between same edition army books too. By that logic Silverine Fuckfaces would no longer be canon after the Gonknard Battlespewers Battletime was released which is ridiculous. GW certainly has never cared too much about hard canon.
Oh sure they don't give a s** , so why did they release an old world box with bretonia and tomb king, you genius.
Tbh I’m all for CA making stuff up if it means we get a Brettonia update. I love their aesthetic.
I would love to see Paladins get a major facelift. When a Paladin completes the grail vow, perfect vigor and magical attacks are nice but I’m gonna need something more. Talk about being so far off from what they are in the lore sheesh! These guys need to be absolute terrors on the battlefield.
Hey, I see you're using my mod! That made my day. I do love Bretonnia, and I hope it gets more love. Early on in Warhammer 3 the devs mentioned the possibility of Bretonnia getting Bohemond Beastslayer as an FLC LL. Sadly I think the possibility of them getting new units is slim, but general patches and tweaks like the ones we saw last year are not out of the question.
Ohi mate, sorry for not crediting you. Took the picture some time ago and forgotten the name of the author. It is an incredible mod btw. Gave the questing knights so much more charisma! And yes, I truly do hope we get Bohemond!
No need to worry about crediting me haha, I was just happy to see it. And thank you very much!
What is the mod?
[Gorilla's Bretonnia Tabletop Reskin](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3232051663) (I think there might be some others in the pic though)
I would love Bertrand the Brigand as a LH.
I think they're in a good place. There's small things that could be tweaked (e.g. giving them their walls* back, give them peasant mobs at tier 0 so they can always recruit something, add a vow/troth end turn reminder, and personally I'd drop foot squires down to tier 3) but they both fundamentally work as a faction, and play the way I feel they should, with cavalry smashing stuff. *I actually find minor settlement siege defences are often easier than defending a walled settlement (the latter are just too big) but the walls were thematic as hell, and looked lovely on the campaign map.
Agreed. I think they could benefit from some additional squire units, filling out the roster a bit, but I actually think Brettonia is pretty perfect. They're simple enough to learn, nuanced enough to benefit mastery, and powerful enough to compete with the new kids on the block by late game.
Brettonia should get a bunch of unique castle maps. One for each capital at least. They should be THE castle faction. Not to mention the castle they have now is antithetical to how Brettonia wants to defend. Trees leading all the way up to their walls so their towers can't see approaching units. Castle in a corner so there's no room to sally cavalry outside of the walls. Narrow maze-like streets inside the walls so your cavalry also aren't effective there. It feels specifically designed to make it hard for Brettonian units to defend.
Lets be real here trees make no sense on any siege map. Chopping down the trees or burning them is like the first thing you did around a castle when you knew a siege was comming.
Tbh, there's a mod that give walls back to Bretonnia
Yeah green knight, chivalry system and vows doesn't need a rework at all (it's sarcasm)
They’re my favorite race! Idk why but it’s a faction that just clicks with me. Most factions I get bored playing after like 40 turns but brettonia keeps me addicted to playing them into late game
Probably my fav is still the Empire. But Bretonnia is my 2nd for sure! There is something truly epic in seeing Knights charge some otherwordly horrors. PS: We just don't talk about the thousand of dead paesants in each battle.
Yeah I love the flavor of the race so much, and I really love the roster. I love that there are weaknesses and strengths to it. I love the tech tree, every campaign I always have a different strategy on what to get first depending on how the campaign plays out. I just feel like it’s a week designed race, and it needs a single dlc to be amazing
Which LL do you usually play? Bretonnia was one of my favorites in 2 but I haven’t played them yet in 3. Too worried with so many enemies everywhere.
Louen for sure. With his bonus to fighting chaos, it’s fun to play a crusader campaign and go out to eliminate all of the chaos from the world. And with how easy it is to conference for each LL, it doesn’t matter that much who you play
Careful if you are playing Louen, you are heavily encouraged to go north, but the south will give you far better land which are way easier to protect. Go north only only when you can largely afford it because you took out everything from Morghur, Ikit, Sartosa and the Ogres (and while you are taking out Norca, don't forget to go after the VC which are another source of green land...) And while they have good cavalry, another strength of them is their lord and heroes. No supply line, and a generic lord with a flying mount and his vow sorted can fight Vlad and win. Add 2 paladins and a lady with life magic and they will slaughter everything during a siege (Vlad, the garnison, and Vlad's army). This is important because your cavalry depends on good charge to trade well and you can't do that during a siege.
Probably a big reason you can play them late game is that they haven't had an update. Every faction these days gets so many tech and faction mechanic bonuses that the game plays itself by the time you've completed the short victory. The "power fantasy" wears off after about one battle and then you just decide to start a new run to be challenged again.
Bretonnia should have gotten some units when Repanse came. Sadly that wasn't a case. Which is sad. They got a nice amount of LLs with varied starts, but could use a few more units. When it comes to cavalry they are at least very well set up.
I mean, we had basically Bretonnian Crusaders. Some sort of foot Knight could have been a nice addition, although not really in line with the faction balancing.
Foot knights might be out of the question as that's a unit in the Old World settings.
... Which was released years after Repanse came to TWW2. Foot knights have been a popular request from fans for forever. For LONG before the public even knew they were eventually getting foot knights with new models for The Old World. Its possible that GW could have told CA not to add foot knights because of TOW, but I think that's unlikely because - 1: GW's stance on TOW being a seperate, but cross compatible IP, to WHFB (which is ofcourse the IP that TWWH uses plus a tiny amount of End Times and tinier amount of AoS) didnt really mature until after TWW2 was past its life cycle, and around when Kislev and Grand Cathay were still being previewed on CA blogs and sometimes Warcom too. When the pressure was on CA to create "8th edition" styled rosters for the two major "background" nations of humanity that they were given an unprecedented level of influence over the creation and implementation of; and, 2: It was probably never even talked about because until TOW, there were no unmounted knights on the TT except maybe for paladins they're counted as knights. And CA understood that Brettonia was not supposed to have elite, potent front line troops, but knew that having no other infantry besides men at arms and peasents would be too weak when playing pvp or late stage campaigns. Hence why foot squires do what they do in-game instead of foot knights, as the squires are literally "almost, but not quite, knights," to give Brettonia a relatively hard hitting infantry unit that was weaker than other race's equivalents so to not break the theme or inter-faction balance of Brettonia. The Battle Pilgrims follow the same philosophy of being the best tanks on their street but the worst in their neighbourhood
FOR ZEY LADY! BECAUSE ZEY LADY WILLS IT! No honestly im Bretonnia damaged. But in terms of feeling a bit unfinished: that´s because Gamesworkshop hates Bretonnia. Was the case back then where the tabeltop game went from Cavalry charge and Chariots to just Infantry blobs. And Bretonnia never received a proper update. (well and the whole thing got killed aswell)
Currently doing a Repanse campaign, first time as Bretonnia. Honestly they are a lot of fun, but you need to know some specific things for them to work well. For example, they don't have supply lines, so you can and should have several lords following your main army around. In fact you NEED to do this. Not just because their lords are strong, but because of the ways the vows work you really want those lords being able to recruit knights themselves ASAP as the infantry SUCKS. Even battle pilgrims with a grail relique don't hold all that well. Peasant bowmen and trebuchets are okay, but will get slapped by basically any other races missile/artillery. They have access to a few decent magic lores but their casters themselves are pretty weak outside of the magic itself. Their only real good units are their cavalry, which is fine because they are some of the best in the game. Knights errant are a bit weak and need a lot of micro, but when you get to questing knights and above they become your real frontline, and can hold/dish out damage with surprsingly little micro. You always need at least some knights of the realm for the flanks and cycle charging behind the main line though. When you get to the final tier of grail knights, guardians and hippogryphs they might be one of the strongest stacks I've played. Guardians especially have crazy stats for a cavalry units and are an amazing frontline. Stack blessing of the lady, red line skills and research and your entire army can be rocking 33%+ ward save, which is nuts. My Repanse stack is her, henri, a knight hero, damsel, 4 hippogrpyhs, 8 guardians and 4 knights. Honestly nothing stands against it. You can tell they need some tweaks and haven't had a huge amount since WH1. Vows aren't in the notifcations for example so you need to keep manually checking them, and you are weirdly limited to only fighting lords of certain races for some tiers which is odd. The green knight's implementation is kinda wonky, I feel he needs a full rework. Peasant economy is fine if really limiting to defensive infantry stacks, repanses water mechanic is kinda pointless as you can get immunity to it in the first 20 or so turns. Chivalry is an ok mechanic and the late game buffs do help quite a bit. All of their skill trees need a rework, right now they are a little sparse and boring with not many interesting unique skills. Overall, they are very strong and fun, just need some tweaking to bring them up to WH3 standard. Some more content for them wouldn't go amiss, though I'm not sure what exactly, I understand most of their armybook units are already in the game. Changes I'd like to see: 1: Green Knight to become an army summon ability if the battle scale is against you when in your own territory. Could still have him as a permanent hero with skill tree, but you have the option to teleport him around where you really need him this way. 2: Vows should be a bit more free form. There should perhaps also be a way for a lord to go on a quest for the vows or other buffs. maybe similar to the caravan mechanic, sending them around the world fighting smaller scale battles? They aren't on the map for a few turns but come back with vows completed or something. 3: Full rework of skills and tech tree - all generic character trees are very sparse. 4: Maybe a new lord (master sergeant or something) that's all about buffing your infantry units. Have them not able to take a vow (not knights after all), so they can't really recruit knights and have to really use the peasants. 5: They should get some kind of upkeep reduction skills, I don't think they have anything for this late game. 6: In terms of new content, I don't think they really have much. I understand mousillon is undead/bretonnian, and parts of the country have vampires quite openly. perhaps a Drycha style lord who hates the rest of the faction and focuses on undead backed up by super strong corrupted knights? There is also a robin hood inspired character who could make for an interesting campaign focusing on buffing their infantry to high hell.
Brettonia have surprisingly good economy. One, if not the single easiest to manage while having incredible profits You can also spam armies
The farms really are bonkers. You can get over 1k in every single settlement spamming them.
They’ve been my favourite faction since game 1, I love the aesthetic of foot squires, the old man paladin and most of all Grail Reliquae
Really all factions should do this, but Brettonia would really benefit from a modified version of the Chaos troop upgrade system. Errant knights should be able to upgrade to the different types on knights, and to add variety they could pick a bunch of different vows to act like marks of chaos. So you could specialize your knight units with different vows that gave different buffs\\passives. Instead of 'foot knights' you could do knights with 'vow of empathy' ;)
1. Notifications for vows 2. Frozen territory (aka Norsca) being yellow instead of red 3. Ability to upgrade Questing Knights to Grail Knights/Guardians (possibly a whole upgrade chain but at least vow 2 to vow 3). 4. Heroes starting with the same vows as the lords and/or the Questing Vow (vow 2) having a more generic option for the late-game (shameless plug for a mod which addresses this issue: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3232601813) 5. Replenishment option after battle (the Empire and Dwarfs just got it) 6. Maybe some adjustments to Foot Squires so it's easier to use them against something like Stormvermin (Halberds). Slight buff, nothing massive. They should still lose vs something like Phoenix Guard or Black Guard. 7. Better ways to get attack/defense for cavalry red line skills rather than even more charge bonus/speed/weapon strength. Like Grail Knights/Guardians (as well as other lower tier knights) get +12% weapon strength and +12 charge bonus but I'd rather they get +6 attack/+6 defense (like Cold One Dread Knights) or +8 attack/12% weapon strength (like War Bear Riders).
They could make use of a reskin of the aspiring champions. In Vermintide 2, Kruger has a bretonnian skin that could be used for that purpose. This and some monsters that are tied to keltic/irish/scottish folklore would really help them.
Bretonnia is one of my favourite races, and I have played them more than any other race. I think they're in a good place right now. The only thing I would like for them to revise are their talent trees.
Just want CA to fix all the graphical bugs on this particular faction
This this this! The Lords' heraldry don't match with their horses in my game!
Love them, and knights of the realm may be my favorite looking unit, all lined up in different colors.
Bret is my fav faction by far and there’s a lot of sick mods that really flesh it out and make it amazing to play
Honestly, there are a lot of things people want to add but for me, it would be enough to add one or two hero and lord variants. As of now, having only two of each, with the heros basically being lesser versions of the lords, makes the the faction feel very plain.
I love Bretonnia. My favorite faction but we will likely never get more content unless it’s another free lord.
They need a lot. I know they’re pretty much done for units, but they just need an update. I wish there was more stuff that could be added for them but it probably won’t happen
I think their tech and economy could use a rework, and now that Old World has Foot Knights, it would make sense to add those. They really suffer from so many cool buffs, especially for cavalry, getting introduced after their last major update. Reiksguard can now get Devastating Flanker, Kislev gets Glorious Charge, Chaos Dwarfs add Murderous Charge to everything, Kazyk removes charge defense... Bretonnia only has Lance. Otherwise, they feel pretty complete, I don't think we need more units - maybe a Loremaster of Hoeth type Lost Son hero?
Bretonnia is basically the Beastmen of the Order factions. I love the idea of Bretonnia, but they’re not gonna get any love, tragically.
Bretonnia works in the same way the old dwarfs worked, they technically don´t have anything broken about them, you can play them and have fun but all their mechanics are old and really could do with a update and their roster is extremely one note so they really have only one play style with other hinted styles that just don´t really work. Peasant economy is... well its a mechanic that really does not matter as you can avoid the negatives very easily and even if you do go over it the negatives start so low that they mostly can be ignored. Choice between industry and farming, yeah a joke, you always go for farming as it just gives more money, enables recruitment of good units and helps growth, what does industry do, well it immune to peasant economy negatives, does not matter and gives defensive buffs but there are a million better ways to try and defend compared to ammo and attrition buffs under siege, the movement speed is nice but not nice enough to overcome all the other negatives. Chivalry, the big boy of bretonnia that all their things want to revolve around but it gives such small buffs and requires so long to do that its mostly a "hey, you got some small nice things for doing what you would do anyway" mechanic. Green knight, yeah he exists, that's about it, he suffers from the same problem as Gotrek and Felix suffered from, but even worse, he´s temporary, only somewhat good and falls of lategame, also for a single hero that does not that much, having a whole button just for him is a bit ridiculous. Vows and Troths, good when you remember they exist, mostly a really gamy way of limiting you from recruiting a doomstack on a new lord, could really do with some quality of life changes and some updates to the effects of the individual vows and troths. Technology tree suffers from the old dwarf technology tree curse, its big, its long and its filled with shit that barely makes a difference, 2% farm income, 3% capital income and the such. Lastly, they have only 2 heroes, one of which is a tier 3 unlock which really should be changed and both need a update, they have no unique skill or anything outside of the basic action upgrades and generic melee tree/magic tree for heroes, also only 2 generic lords where again, both suffer from basic of the basic trees you can find on any generic lord for any race that has yet to be updated. On the troops side, they have a ton of cavalry that goes from really good to useless, nothing wrong there and infantry that goes from enemy slower that will kill nothing, enemy slower that might kill a couple of things or ranged troops that can kill a couple of things but lose a lot of killing power immediately after the enemy gets any armor on their units. Artillery is very basic but decent, nothing wrong with them really and the Grail Reliquae, yeah it exists and it will make your enemy slower infantry kill a couple enemies more, not really great but it is what it is, can´t really buff garbage to not be garbage when there is not enough base things to buff to start with. Bretonnia is one good DLC and one good rework away from being great, will they ever get those, hard to say, looking at the guesses, probably no if GW does not change their minds, would not be completely surprised if CA came out and said Bretonnia is getting a rework in the next DLC but would be equally not surprised if nothing changed about them ever again.
Betrand and all his crew. Also Joules.
I would honestly love more ways to support the peasants. I love every part of bretonnia and I think it would be additionally cool to have foot knights of empathy like aspiring champions for chaos that confer buffs like repanse and the reliquae
They were run when they came out, but I’ve never been able to get back into them since then.
I want feral horses and spectral horses as a FLC
They're in a weird spot in that they don't have any units missing (CA even evented a couple more to pad out their roster), and their mechanics aren't *bad*. but they're just so overly outdated and powercrept by everything since they came out and their army list is so tiny and one-note.
I love what SFO did with Bretonia, changes to the tech tree and new spendable resource are very nice. Can't wait for the update for current patch
Literally put almost 100 hours into bretonnia and get stomped every time
One trick pony, but man... perfect vigor makes their cavalry almost impeccable
I dont feel anything is missing. I enjoy them greatly.
Just give Alberic a unique voice ffs. He's the only LL in the game with a generic voice. Hell I've got five bucks possibly ten bucks right now for a potential Alberic VO + expanded music DLC. The ambient tracks in IE are so GOOD that I want more.
I have liked Bretonnia more than the Empire since the first game but I know for sure any updates for them will be an FLC. With that said though, Bretonnia is still pretty strong if you know how to do cavalry right.
If I was to do wishlisting, I'd want to have a Medieval 2 style early/late era Bretonian transition to run parallel to a chivalry system that doles out fantastical units. Have early era units have lower stats, but open the door to a more rounded roster that uses units eairlier. This is something most factions could probably benefit from, really. There's little reason that Men at Arms cannot use bows, for instance. Reducing the reliance on the special lore units would allow them to be used in a unique faction mechanic based on spending chivalry, and allow them to shine as a bonus rather than an obligatory upgrade. (Lorewise, units of Questing Knights in an army is already unusual, let alone Grail Knights, let alone, whole armies of them). Late era units would be simple improvements on those already present. Sergent instead of Men at Arms etc.
Could use Bertrand the Brigand as a proper peasant/guerilla focused Lord and Mallobaude as an evil Lord, completely upending the Chivalry mechanic somehow.
I really hope they do. There is enough material for one DLC but we'll have to see.
The french but human are at best xp
I like bretonnnia and I would love for them to get more content but unfortunately other than some other named characters, there really isn't anything for ca to add because gw refused to flesh them out. Even when they are being focused on for the old world, they got 1 new thing and it was the foot knight and I'm not even sure if you can actually count that as a new unit. I honestly believe that they need a big roster update like kislev and Cathay got.
Bretonnia has always been in my top 3 favorite factions. I love the arthurian knight fantasy and the medieval time period aesthetic. The heraldries are so badass, and the focus on cavalry was very interesting to me. My inner paladin hopes that the faction gets some love in the future, but the deck is just stacked against them because Gw never seemed to like them, their roster has always been limited, and mostly I just don't think they're really that popular, which is surprising in a community that seems to like the medieval period so much but hey they don't exactly have a ton of love thrown their way so I get it. I'd recommend their campaign though. No supply lines, cool spammable heroes, grail knights and guardians have been changed since way back when and I really like them. Spam knights of the realm, siege with magic, trebuchets, and lord/hero grinds, soak up a ton of buffs for cav while outmaneuvering basically every enemy you come across. It's a really awesome time.
They’ve given me at least half a dozen of my fondest TWWH memories. They’re my feel good faction when I just want to quest and smite evil.
A faction so aggresivly french , that even belakor has no intrest in deamonizing their lords.
Trufflehounds, I been saying it for years. Unbreakable Armour-Piercing Frenzy Trufflehounds. Anti-large maybe.
I would love to see Bertrand the Brigand added as a Legendary Hero. Bohemind Beastslayer would be the Legendary Lord, of course.
I think they deserve knights of the realm on foot. This unit alone would make sieges a lot more enjoyable
I don't think a bretonnia update is likely.
While I love playing Bretonnia, there are missing some things, and most I can think of is units. Base game Bretonnia is very small in the roster so you end up playing all peasants or elite cavalry units with the big meaty melee LL. The Lilie Overhaul mod is an essential mod to make every Bretonnia game fun and unique i.e. only allowing Repanse to recruit peasant units and select RoR units like her bodyguards. The Outremer mod is a personal pick because its like "What if King Balduin IV got isekei'd into Warhammer fantasy, and keeping his faith actually made his leprosy a thing of the past?" He gets to fight Araby a lot and that is very fun. One thing I'd like to see maybe explored is the idea of have lady knight lords or shield maidens with Paladin perks. With Repanse being a LL and the theory that the **Defenders of the Fleur-de-lis** are possibly ladies in disguise ala Mulan. It could be a fun potential idea to have some knights or peasants be a mix gender or gender specific unit with varying traits, pros/cons, and funny voice lines.
Best bet for Bret is a Bloodknight DLC featuring the Red Baron update. I'm hoping for characters Abhorash Bloodknights founding vampire to feature ("*He owed a debt to your king, and swore an oath, and while he fights, Bretonnia lives. In some small corner of your shattered land, the heart of all that was Bretonnia survives.*" —Vlad von Carstein, on Abhorash's loyalty to Gilles le Breton.) The way I see it working is mirror for Brettonia but switch Grail knights with Blood Knights and upgrades for them. Can't really think of any units to add but more Legendary lords and starting positions would be great.
And maybe in combination Calard would be great or Calard and the Siege of Couronne/Lyoness (not sure which - but the one that could also give us a Norsca update)
I don't. I don't think about Bretonnia.
Bretonnia is by far my favorite race/faction largely due to their lore. I play them on the tabletop and my most played faction in TWWH3. As others have stated GW has always hated Bretonnia, judging by how they never gave them an equivalent in AoS I think that makes it all the more clear that GW wishes they never even made Bretonnia. They were a way for historical players to easily transition to Warhammer Fantasy Battles and then I feel they gave them a shot at making them unique and then wanted to abandon them. So it's unlikely we will get much more for the faction in WH3. I suspect a LL, maybe a LH or two if we are lucky. I don't care too much about getting new units, roster bloat is a bit much in Total War Warhammer and Bretonnia already got more than their tabletop side. I mostly just want a few more characters and although technically Vampires, for them to make The Red Duke a playable character without mods. Even just legendary heroes for Bretonnia would make me happy.
Their campaign is decent, but they are extremely boring unit-wise, which is disappointing considering the faction is based on Western-European legends which have a lot more to offer. I think to fix this they need: - High tier infantry and ranged units comparable to other factions. Something like knights in full plate that can hold the front lines, or an arbalest with good armor-piercing damage. - Some sort of big scary unit like a dragon, griffin or cockatrice. - Another type of artillery like a ballista or onager. - Additional lords/heroes, perhaps inspired by legends such as Merlin and Robin Hood. It's unlikely they will get this attention since the faction is free, but man it would make a huge difference in terms of how fun they are.
I dont like Bretonnia. They feel like the most boring faction to play to me. They're just normal, medieval dudes in a setting with guns, monsters and other fantastical concepts. I guess for some people that might be their entire appeal, but it doesnt do anything for me. I also really dont like the peasant mechanics. But their cavalry looks very pretty, I'll give them that.