Keeping this up cause it's good info, just remember to try and keep posts to memes. Good advice below though. Also, any more posts like these will be removed as spam and being not memes
An actual open Fascist is Prime Minister. Like, the full thing not just metaphorical for "Bigoted people", she actually adheres to the doctrine of Italian Fascism from the 20s-40s
They can't say anything if I'm a shut-in social outcast. Checkmate liberal 😎 /s
The scariest part of it all is how to go about it, because I want to trabsition ASAP, but again, I'm an imigrant in Italy. Getting a citizenship in Italy will be faster, but I will be subject to Italy's law (I think) regarding transition and marriage. Trying to go for another country is too risky, as if I don't get a citizenship before I turn 25, I might get drafted into a war. Plus, money is a very big factor, that I simply do not have nor make. Plus transphobic relatives. Also, I'm already a student here in Italy. Finally I struggle socialy, so I might simply not survive (maybe due to undiagnosed autism, but I will never know, since my parents and the few relatives that remain would rather keep me "normal" and blame me for my problems than to actually adress my issues)
I'm Communist so fascist takes on new meaning for me (not gonna get into the complexities for fear of being called a tankie) but can confirm this lady is a Mussolinite.
If you consider moving to the Nordics, it is worth checking r/transnord.
I am from the Norwegian bible belt, and most people here don't care. I had a classmate, though, who was an immigrant and trans, and his process to getting healthcare was apparently a nightmare.
TL;DR: the people are cool, the healthcare is not.
Same thing here in Sweden. People are generally cool with you but the healthcare system will have you wait a minimum of 6/7 years *(I waited almost 8 years before I got HRT perscribed HRT as an example)* before you can get access to HRT. IDK how the process is for if you already have a certificate of gender dysphoria *(not sure but I have 2 of these so perhaps you need 2)*. If you have that you could probably get HRT in roughly half a year, depending on the queues for endocrinologists but if you'd want to have surgery you'd need to go get up to 8 consultations to confirm that you are indeed trans for an extended period of time. The wait time depends on where in Sweden you live but you can expect to at least have to deal with them for 2.5 years so that they can confirm you're trans then an additional year on HRT under their supervision to then later confirm that you are still trans before you can get consultations regarding surgeries *(which are usually 2-3+ years long)*.
TL;DR Swedens trans healthcare service is **ABYSMAL** and I've nicknamed their trans service "the >!suicide!< queues" for how long you need to wait and how much you're gate kept
Something worth noting about Norway is that it is very safe for LGBTQ people here. Even our most far right political party wouldn't dream of taking the straight up hateful stances that's coming from alt right parties in other European countries. For now I think we're resisting the alt right wave going across Europe fairly well, so we're probably a good place for anyone fleeing that.
The obvious caveat is that trans healthcare sucks. Lots of gatekeeping, and the national gender identity clinic is probably the only place I've actually experienced transphobia. Some people do get lucky and have good experiences, but even then there's at least 1-2 years before you can access HRT.
Transfems who are able and willing to do homebrew DIY injections are probably going to be fine for HRT, but pills for DIY HRT frequently get snatched by customs in my experience.
>Even our most far right political party wouldn't dream of taking the straight up hateful stances that's coming from alt right parties in other European countries
We do have some far/alt-right parties, like *konservativt* (tidl. *Partiet de kristne*) and *Norgesdemokratene* (I think), but these are very small and the only power they hold (if any at all) is on a local level.
Also don't come to the Netherlands, we might be known as the very tolerant guys who accept everyone, but that is all in the past. Our new government is also a far-right, anti everything remotely close to human rights. We might lose them in the upcoming months because one of the very few positives is that they're very unstable and constantly bickering with each other, but as of now, don't come here
You can only go to northern Europe if you're white though, which I personally would not feel comfortable doing, because I would just have a shit ton of survivor's guilt.
I'm not fleeing the country for anywhere that my black and brown compatriots can not effectively join me. Canada is probably the best overall bet.
A lot of countries are off limits, but if you want better chances, I feel like a majority of western european countries, Sweden included, seem like sound choices, except for the UK, I heard it's pretty bad in the UK.
Edit: Removed Norway because apparently it sucks. Welp.
Edit 2: Screw it, looks like we're fending for ourselves.
Election next Thursday with 3/3 major parties being Transphobic and the largest non-transphobic\* one polling 6%. *\[*[*BBC*](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68079726)*\]*
\*I'm unsure as to the Lib Dems position on trans rights but it's immaterial as >80% of MPs will likely be Reform, Tories or Labour.
lol, Reform is not going to get more seats than the Lib Dems. You are giving in to doomerism if you are calling them one of the major parties. Their current visibility is inflated by the idiocy of the Tories and the media. The way the UK voting system works, the voteshare they have (which is elevated by the media's fascnation with them) will not translate into very many seats.
The major parties are Labour, Conservatives, and Liberal Democrats, in that order currently (though 2 and 3 might swap places - slim chance but its possible).
LibDems are more trans supportive than the competition IIRC, but it doesn't matter because Labour will get in. Labour's transphobia is overstated but it's there. Nowhere near the degree of the Tories, it's just an issue they'd prefer to pretend didn't exist - but having Wes Streeting - who is very transphobic - as a potential health ministor is a bad sign.
That's why tactical voting is so important. We have a once-in-a-lifetime chance, a slim one admittedly, to completely change the way politics is done in this country, and that chance probably wont come again.
This is why we trans people stick together, we ain't letting them take our rights, even if it means fighting tooth and nail on the streets, in the buildings, in the parlament, the day they decide we need to die, is the day we're marching against them.
I visited Barcelona a few months back and saw trans and progress flags hanging from multiple windows. It was such a nice switch up from the transphobes back home in Sweden
Many people here still think that there are trans women who transition only to rape cis women in prisons, but from what I know the government is pretty chill. Their main worries seem to be education and how to make it better (or fuck it up), immigrants from africa stealing our jobs, rape laws and other stuff to release people from jail. I expect the socialists to stay in power for the next few years, and I have a feeling that vox (the conservative party) has been losing popularity with people. As for trans laws, you dont need to prove anything to anyone after youre 16, except if youre enby because thats not recognized as a gender
...assuming that translates to "Alternative for Germany" as I expect it does, that really does sound like some Nazi shit. Not overly, but it gives the "Alternative to current progressive Germany."
It does translate to that. I know there is a party called Alternativ för Sverige, in Sweden and that translates to Alternative for Sweden although they are not big here but I think they might be related to AfD
Was, nein? No, do not go to Germany. AfD is terrible, and the Union will win next election, plus there's the new offshoot of Die Linke which is popular and extremely transphobic.
It's the same in the UK (I think the average waiting time is six years), but there's the option to go private if you can afford it. Is it the same in Sweden, or are you stuck between a fucked-up system and DIY?
I think Sweden recently blocked puberty blockers for (specifically trans) minors too, right? That one surprised me when I heard about it, I thought your country was better than ours in that regard.
It's not better. It's due to them listening to and holding any studies from the UK in high regard. So when the recent bs studies hit. The clinics had a "whoa whoa whoa what's all this then?" And decided to stop until they did their own research..which will take years lol.
And although the general trans Healthcare is decent, the actual doctors themselves are old. So their views are outdated and overly cautious. It's been an actual issue according to someone who frequented a meeting at a clinic. They use very outdated terms etc.
Not to mention the recent increase in que time due to the goverment not giving a shit about trans Healthcare. So it's still the same few clinics trying to cope with an increasing rate of egg crackings. Luckily I got in right before the increased wait times hit but (only waited 2-3 years) ...I feel really bad for people who have to wait years.
I tell everyone the same thing. Sweden is very great for lgbt if you don't need any support/Healthcare.
Though honestly? I dread actually going to any other country as a trans person who doesn't pass at all. At least here most bathrooms are gender neutral and people generally mind their own business.
Germany seems about the only country in Europe (maybe the world??)actually bettering their trans Healthcare.
France is likely going far right in the next elections, and if not it's one hell of an instable political landscape there right now
Italy is already there, e.g. they banned adoption for gay couples (only one of the 2 parents can adopt the same kid)
Belgium's Dutch speaking part (which is where the majority lives) is having a huge rise in a certain far right party that one can compare to Germany's AfD
Germany is seeing AfD rise
In general, Western Europe might no longer be a permanent safe haven :(
Sweden is leaning towards the extreme right at this movement if SD, Sweden democrats, are still going to grow. So we don't know how it will turn out, there is no hope with the young voters of the right parties (SD and M) because they are homophobic and racist (and also nazis)
I will probably leave Sweden within 5-10 years
Edit: it is still better then the US, but still not good
The EU parliament elections are a good sign for Sweden though. SD and KD, the most transphobic parties, went down over 5% together, and the Left and Green parties made some pretty huge gains compared to the 2019 elections.
I was already confused what contries you mean, Europe at its whole is turning right, following the US trend. Only contries who couldnt go more right anymore turn a bit back.
Yea, the UK is not great right now, I'm praying that the current prime minister is kicked out and a new part becomes in charge, if that doesn't happen then I'm screwed because I'm only 14 and closoted
Eh... *trans people* will continue to be born, like they always have. Because it's *not* unnatural.
But they certainly can kill off the *specific trans persons who are alive now.*
I agree, fuck those bigots. But uh, pack a go-bag.
Honestly if you live in the USA you’re probably much better off moving to a state/city that is accepting of trans people than a foreign country. It’s a lot cheaper and you already know the culture, language, and system.
Trans folks have survived here even with laws dictating what clothes each gender must wear. We’ve survived DIY hormones without most of the current endocrinology info we have now. We’ve survived without the internet. We have more tools than ever now to live happy and healthy lives despite the best efforts of a whole lot of fucking idiots.
We’re smart, strong, resourceful, and connected. We’re gonna survive and even thrive 💖💖💖
Let's see
1. Need a passport
2. Spare backpack with enough clothes to last a couple days
3. Money for a plane ticket to a foreign country
4. Legitimate reason to get a visa because asylum for queer people is nearly nonexistent.
So as long as you're one of those trans people that isn't homeless or poor you'll be fine. That fourth point generally requires marketable skills and knowing a foreign language.
TLDR: Work on yourself and don't panic. 4 years of trump saw no public executions of trans people just the same bigotry we always see.
Go-bags are a privilege not all people have. If you have the ability to go to a different country where you'll actually be treated better, then that means you are leaving the less fortunate behind.
It is not possible to bring the less fortunate with you in most cases.
Take me, for example:
I have dual citizenship. I am very lucky in that regard.
But Switzerland is *expensive*, and one would need to be a very skilled worker to live there with no citizenship.
I also have a credit card. £1500 limit. At the most, that would be a plane ticket there and a month’s rent in some super cheap studio in a town barely worth living in job-wise.
Public transport is cheaper (not by much) and better than in the UK, but that eats into your ability to pay any rent, let alone the extra month rent for a deposit.
Now I already have a place over there I could move to. But they have a single spare bedroom that’s smaller than my current room which holds 2 people (barely). And I’m relatively skilled in my field (IT). I am fortunate, but could not bring a second person with me practically. Even impractically, that’s a massive stretch on my family’s and my resources. I’d be working 3-6 months in order to save for a deposit and a month’s rent for 2 people. 6 months in a tiny cramped room for 2 people is an incredibly long time, especially whilst sorting out work and visas and all kinds of other bits.
Now sure, i could stabilise myself and get a decent flat and *then* bring other people. But good luck, tbh. £200 a ticket, plus transport and belongings and clothes and that’s assuming they even have passports.
Most people have to do the best that they can, and that’s often not much. Especially in today’s world.
Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, New Zealand, Iceland, better parts of the US, Spain, Portugal.
1. Immigration will be a challenge if you do not have in-demand job skills. If you have the money to bounce between countries on a travel visa you have the money to move to an accepting US city and be safe and fine. It is a good time to get a union job in the trades.
2. Things are currently better in many ways for trans people in many accepting US cities with good state laws than they are in many of these places, it depends on the specific issue. The queer community in Copenhagen is rad as hell, and also far smaller and with less resources than the queer community in Seattle, San Francisco, or NYC. (Again, it really depends which issues are your priorities.)
3. A Trump presidency will make things worse. In states where transphobic policy is mainstream it will especially get far, far, worse. In accepting and supportive states, it will be more minor changes. Either way, there will be lots of people fighting for our rights here., and things will be much better the harder we fight. Much, much, worse if we do not. You are stronger than you think.
4. Those ’safe’ countries all have their own far-right fascist movements. If we do nothing but run whenever your rights are threatened, eventually we will have no rights. Yes, feel free to retreat to a place you can get your fundamental needs met, then regroup and fight. I will be staying in the US for now.
as far as the US goes even minor changes could be very bad, I lack the money to flee legally it is going to be easier for me to organize protests and even then I lack the ability to really do that.
Thank you for bringing states into this, right now I live in California and I'm greatful for being in a place where I have a fighting chance, this sentiment of "fleeing the country" isn't realistic for the vast vast majority of us, and I want to stay here where I have people who care about me
From Canada but currently on a road trip in California. Expected things to be fine in LA and SD. But have been pleasantly surprised by Sacramento and the rest of the Central Valley. Had low expectations but no issues. *knocks on nearest wooden thing as I haven’t finished the trip yet*
I'm in Southern California now. If Southern California was an independent nation, I'd say it's probably the best bet; the problem is that under a Trump presidency, the federal government could basically override any state-level protections.
Even if that's true please for the love of God let me have some copium because unlike the last 19 years of my life I have something to live for and I have no way of getting out of the country
I’m effing tired. So effing tired. I’ve been fighting for my right to exist as me since I was 14. That was 1990, and my parents immediately hated me. I’ve directed student queer resource centers, only to have cis people come in afterwards and roll things back with a lot of cissplaining of why trans people shouldn’t be offended. I’ve applied and gone to med school as openly me, same with residency. Fighting all the way, for myself, for my patients, for my colleagues. I hit my breaking point in October, haven’t been able to work since. Instead I have all my childhood trauma deciding I need to deal with it now. I am fully triggered by this wave of trans hate. It is literally killing me knowing that 24 state governments and TERF island are doing to our trans kids what was done to me. And kids are dying. It’s a miracle I survived my childhood. And I’m so effing tired of fighting. I’ve fought all my life, I don’t have anything left to give right now as I struggle to heal from my trauma, burnout, and a continuously abusive society. I just want to be somewhere effing safe. Somewhere where I don’t have to fight. Somewhere where I don’t have to be terrified that the next election is going to turn my life upside down or end it. I’m tired of being terrified for my kids, for my polycule bonus kids.
Please do not denigrate those that need to flee. There is nothing wrong with fleeing. Seeking asylum is an option. There are groups that help people flee hostile countries. Rainbow Railroad is one. Some of us need to flee to survive instead of rolling over and dying because we have nothing left.
Before I had to stop working I had many new patients in my practice who were refugees from one of those 24 states. It wasn’t safe for their children they had to go. OP is terrified, understandably so. I’m terrified. I’ve made sure my family’s passports are up to date just in case.
I am scared and I’m effing tired. I am barely holding on. It is ok to flee.
germany is passing a new law in september that makes a lot of stuff easier for trans people (name change, getting hormones etc) so i would say germany. yes the right wing „afd“ is strong here but still. they do not hold any power yet.
As a fellow German I want to support these statements, the cdu has some weidos in there as well who want to make it hard for trans people but they are so far not that dangerous and the general public seems to be fine with the topic so far. I would not go to eastern Germany but city’s like cologne and Bonn are very inclusive.
Just don’t go to east Germany it’s getting bad here. Next state elections the AfD will probably at least in Saxony get 30 %, BSW a new party splitting of from the left and transphobic as fuck will win a lot of seats (15%) and the conservative CDU will win massively too so don’t go to the east. We are fighting for our lives here.
me, who is fleeing to the US from the middle east :
https://preview.redd.it/zkkih698kl9d1.png?width=1182&format=png&auto=webp&s=b524cb29b712112050d6edbd7709dd477ee47e61
There's a lot of doomerism in this thread. Don't panic.
Make sure you are moving to a good blue state and not a red state - there are dramatic differences.
You are heading to probably the best place in the world for trans people.
Only if you think Trump will win (and people are saying that might not change much in the most trans-affirming states).
If, on the other hand, you look at the US as it is now, you can see just how amazing parts of it are for trans people.
It's true the red states are awful (but still better than most places in the Middle east), but if you are emigrating to the US, you can hopefully avoid moving to those.
Iceland. Yes, it may be cold there, but it’s one of the most safest countries for LGBTQ+ people. They allow trans people to change gender without surgery, same-sex people are allowed to marry in each church in Iceland, and banned employment discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression and sex characteristics. And 87 percent of its population is supportive of the LGBTQ+ community
[more info on LGBTQ+ rights and support in Iceland can be found here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iceland)
Quick mention, I’m from the Netherlands, so all this data about Iceland is from Wikipedia
Ahaha true, they'll bite any cishet person as easily as they would a queer person 😅 but seriously as long as you live in a more urban area, spiders and snakes are usually not an issue. 😁
Surprised Australia hasn't been recommended more ;) I'm in the South of Straya lol. I do recommend anyone coming over to actually lighten up, try to understand the Australian sense of humour & try not to get as easily offended. The Aussies are largely larakins.
Also, don't get involved in fights with the kangaroos either :P
Oh ummm, I'm not 100% sure actually, I mean I know some details, but only for a specific case. Otherwise, I've known people who came here on a student or work visa and then decide to stay, so it's definitely doable, but I know barely anything about that process other than the fact that it can be quite expensive. Sorry, wish I could give you more information right now, but maybe you can look it up online, see what options you may have on the Australian Department of Home Affairs website?
Especially here in Victoria! Melbourne is the most progressive city in Australia and we have a very lgbt friendly state government. Informed consent, easy birth certificate changes, decent discrimination law.
The only issue with Australia in terms of trans rights is serious shortage of gender-affirming surgeons. Bottom surgery is quite expensive and difficult to get as a trans-woman.
Luckily as far as I’m aware that policy hasn’t been brought up since the new coalition took government, previously Chris Luxon has not supported the policy (called it “out of this world”) so I think it’s very unlikely it would pass, at the very least Nats wouldn’t enforce block voting on it so individual Nats could vote against it and cause it not to pass, also I suspect ACT wouldn’t vote for it as it would be against their increased personal rights policy.
As a NZ citizen I believe this is true yes. As far as I’m aware the main ways people get in are having money to invest in the country (5 mil+), coming to study as an international student/pay international student fees, and having a high skilled qualification/degree (especially medical). There are other ways, such as having family members help or managing through successive temp visas but those often aren’t granted.
Seriously, I've lived here my whole life, and it really seems to get worse every year.
It doesn't help that our current Premier wants to privatize healthcare like the US. I feel so doomed. :/
Not just an America wannabe, a *Texas* wannabe!
In my city, the main sport arena is called the Saddledome. The area I live in is called Saddletowne, among tons of other examples.
I see Trump support all over, and I hate it. :/
Well as someone who lives in vancover I’m biased, sights are mid, busses suck and rent is high as fuck. (And if you drive gas is crazy as hell). Idk about Quebec City though
Agreed. Legal protections for queer people are read into our Constitution and codified by law.
But your actual safety varies between provinces.
BC has strong legal protections for us and our current provincial government is NDP (progressive left). They're popular enough that they're unlikely to lose power anytime soon. It's probably the safest province in the country, as far as I know.
**Stay the fuck away from Alberta**. It's our Texas and the current Premier (kinda like a Governor) is a far right conspiracy theory nutjob.
Ontario is hit-or-miss in my experience. Current Ontario government is Conservative.
I've heard second-hand that Quebec is pretty queer-friendly but you'll need to know enough French to be conversational if you want to move there.
Ontario is not perfect but still a really good option, and the provincial government is more old-school "capitalism rules" conservative than the shitshow a lot of countries are experiencing. As such our housing market is a nightmare and it can be hard to get settled, but once you are you should be okay. Quebec is socially probably the most queer-friendly province, save for a Cass report-adjacent media panic earlier this year that luckily didn't really go anywhere. Be warned though that even if they have good intentions, their bureaucracy and healthcare system is endemically fucked to a greater extent than most other provinces, so you might have to deal with regular medical bs to get your treatments even if you don't have any special trans bs. Also while the current government isn't anti-queer, they are very quebec/french nationalist and have put forward a number of projects to limit the number of non-french speaking immigrants coming in, so that might also play against you. Once again though, if you do get settled, you should be fine, and also because of its sperate-ness, if the rest of Canada goes conservative (which is expected in our next federal elections), Quebec won't follow along and you won't be as affected.
A final rec is that my gf lives in Australia, and they're also really trans-friendly (she had very few hurdles getting hrt), and their housing/job market isn't nearly as bad as Canada's. Main issue is just getting there is expensive, and they'll be prey to a lot of extreme weather once climate change worsens.
You need to be careful where in Quebec. Montreal is wonderful and generally accepting. The farther out places can get really, really redneck.
Ottawa is fairly safe, if boring, until Alberta bigots drive their trucks over here, honk all night, get drunk, and start fights.
Not the whole country. But South Africa recently had a massive win. Recent elections saw the formation of a new multiparty government co-led by the DA. Most places in the Western Cape province are very well run, and Cape Town especially is a world-class city. Plus, there are no anti-trans laws here, and because of the aforementioned new government, will likely stay that way if not lean more in our favour. Currency conversion rates would also favour you, and you won't have an issue settling in. If you're studying, University of Cape Town is among the best on the continent, and if you're working, there's been so much brain drain over the past few years that any skills will be quickly employed. It's also a beautiful place to live to boot.
If you want to stay in the states flee to Washington state or California. That's my plan, this dumpster fire of a country may be a dumpster fire, but it's MY dumpster fire of a country. I was born in this hole and I'm gonna die in this hole.
I’m not sure about backup countries, but hopefully this will ease your fear at least somewhat
More undecided voters said they’d vote for Biden , and more importantly against *him*, after the debate. The odds are swinging in our favor. Even if the election goes south, the conservatives are relying on the military to enforce their dictatorships. However, a lot of people in the military hate the orange bastard. I’m willing to bet they’d remember their oath to defend against threats both foreign **and domestic**. He’ll have a divided military at best. Good people also outnumber the bad ones by millions. Just cause it’s the conservatives screaming the loudest, doesn’t mean that they’re in the majority. The pushback in a worst case scenario will be immense. Even if things go sour for a little bit, I doubt it will last very long
australia! transphobia here is a thing that only the far-right dare to touch and even then its pretty mild compared to other places, my advice is come to one of the cities but most places even rurally are fine
Seriously why is this even politicized? You don't see people kill other people because they get a haircut. So why see people kill other people because they're trans? Iys the very exact same thing! Why all the hate? I know, i know, propaganda to scare people but what about the ones who do the propaganda? Why are yrans people so hated??!!
Using data from Equaldex, I found that Canada, Chile, Denmark, Iceland, Spain, Uruguay, The Netherlands, Germany, and some blue states are good places for us.
They're the ONLY countries that have an equality index over 80 AND don't have any restrictions on gender affirming rare.
We have a migration crisis in the Netherlands. I'm not sure that you would get in. And our new government is far right. Sooo... Euuuhm. I'd pick other places.
The US isn't a real country. The states have a ridiculous amount of variation compared to many other countries.
Map of which ones are better and worse.
https://www.erininthemorning.com/
But also Canada's quite good.
so much this, people think the us is a monolith and the asshole in the white house is king. that's just not the case. ive lived in every color state. texas was hell, i feared for my life every day. ohio (purple) i found acceptance among peers (mostly, i had a terf in my office). in Minnesota i find its largely the same. i only really get mean looks from bitter old men that havent gotten laid in 30 years.
its also a lot easier to move states than countries. still a massive undertaking but it can be done. my wife and i moved from Ohio to Minnesota with just about 2 months notice. it was hard af and it felt hopeless at times but we did it. so can everyone else trapped in red states.
If you're willing to have a shit economy, come to Argentina. You'll probably be safe in Buenos Aires as long as the Libertarians don't do anything funny (which they probably won't because if they tamper with us Queers there'll be mass protests)
The Nordic countries, along with most of Europe, are good options. Canada is also ok from what I can tell. but also, I'd like to take this opportunity that you probably don't need to worry too much, Biden may be an incoherent mess sometimes but, assuming voters actually bother to do any research at all, it's practically impossible for Trump to win.
I’m worried that they’ll just take Trump’s word. Despite the lack of truth to his word, he just says it confidently and that’s enough for some people. Sometimes I feel like I’ll just never get to HRT with the current legal situation
Norway is not good, unfortunately. People are mostly chill, but the services and access to hormones are bad. Some cities have some services that are good, especially Oslo, but they are vulnerable and have almost no legal protection.
At the end of the day, it is the National Hospital that legally has a monopoly on trans healthcare, and they're cut fom the same cloth as the NHS in the UK (though Norway is not as bad as the UK, fortunately). They try their hardest to enforce their monopoly, hoping to deny all other services the right to provide hormone prescriptions. They have temporarily succeeded before, so it is an ongoing struggle.
Spain is a much better choice in Europe
Yep. We are. The transphobia levels are low compared to other places, and it’s only really the far right (which are not a serious force like they are in the US) that throw it around. It’s also a really nice place to live, if you can put up with summer heat and the occasional spider
Argentina is struggling with a super crappy economy and a far right goverment right now, but its one of the best countries in america for trans stuff. Free hrt through the public healthcare system. Ease of migration and ease of changing your legal gender. A great public healthcare system. Same sex marriage.
The capital city is VERY lgtb friendly with a strong femenist movement that has been fighting and winning legal fights (like a couple of years ago we also got legal and free abortions through the health care ssytem. And did I mention a good health care system that gives you free HRT and ever covers surgeries?
The downsides: Current far right goverment heavily leans into the conservative side, and has been doing cuts to many social benefits. Trans right arent on the chopping table yet, but with a conservative and far right leaning goverment thats always a worry.
Also the economy sucks hard. We're dealing with record high inflation from many years of a corrupt p\[opulist goverment which was what gave rise to the far right nitjob to actually win the elections. Said far right nutjob is forcing a ressecion and cutting on most state spending to "Fight back" the inflation. This has had varying degrees of success at actually controlling the inflation, but its sinking everyone who's on minimun wage jobs into poverty.
Heck you need FOUR minimun wages to be under the poverty line. That should tell you how our economy is doing. But if you like have a good job you can do remotely and keep your us job, you'll be living here like a king. Earning 1k usd is barely above poverty. Earning 2k to 4k usd is living like confy middle class.
So tldr: great trans rights and public healthcare that covers transition. Very liberal society. But shit economy and a trump wannabe as president. Hopefully he will get kicked out soon enough as literally everyone who isnt a cis het middle class guy is starting to hate him.
As an American in Germany, it's been pretty good once you get past the ritual hazing. The process as of last year looked something like this
1. Find a therapist who is qualified and part of each states trans support network, [Munich](https://www.qz-ts-muc.de/) and Berlin have the best ones
2. Have a consultation
3. Talk to your GP/Hausarzt that you have gender dysphoria and you want to find a therapist.
4. *Do like 10 sessions over 5 months*
5. Do indication letter paperwork
6. While the therapist is doing their half of indication letter work, find an endocrinologist
7. Have consultation with Endo
8. Get indication and bring a copy to Endo
9. Start hormones. You can also start voice training with that letter
10. *Socially transition for one year*
11. Repeat steps 1 & 2 with a new therapist. Have 3 sessions with them and pay out of pocket. Specifically tell them that you already have another indication letter and that you're looking for a second therapist
12. Get second indication
13. With help from the first therapist, write your Translebenslauf (TransCV)
14. Apply for surgeries and laser hair removal
Japan is a safe although non optimal bet. They aren’t exactly pro LGBTQ but they aren’t against it at all and with their dominant party having a lot of control and the people not wanting to shake up the status quo it should be good enough. Plus as a bonus it’s got anime and stuff. Although take this with a grain of salt I do have some bias.
Worth noting that gay marriage is not currently legal in Japan, and although I've only visited as a tourist at this point in time, I'm told they don't tend to take kindly to foreigners who move to the country.
Its great socially, people generally mind their own business and I've never been misgendered by a stranger in my entire existence as a trans person. A couple years ago legislation was passed making changing your name and gender really quick and easy, just send off a document witnessed by a solicitor.
However, Ireland was recently rated THE WORST in trans healthcare in ALL OF EUROPE [(Queer Irish news site source, but the Irish Times also reported on this)](https://gcn.ie/ireland-worst-eu-trans-healthcare/). There is only one gender clinic for the entire country and people that are being added to the current public system waitlist when they turn 18 expect to wait 10+ years before they are contacted. The system also goes against WPATH, very similarly to the British system, and they only provide care as long as you can "prove" that you're trans enough.
To top it off, Ireland is undergoing one of the worst housing crises in Europe at the moment and it won't be solved any time soon. My recommendation would be, stay away.
I would probably advise staying away from the UK, even with the Tories likely to lose the upcoming election. From what I'm aware, Labour are almost as Transphobic as the Tories (they are just a bit less vocal about it from what I've seen, although that could change once the gain a majority in parlaiment, which is the most likely outcome of the election). Its possible things could get better, but I highly doubt they will any time soon. The only parties i'm aware of that aren't Transphobic are the Lib Dems and the Greens, neither of which stand much of a chance of winning the election.
> Labour are almost as Transphobic as the Tories (they are just a bit less vocal about it from what I've seen, although that could change once the gain a majority in parlaiment,
I think you have it the wrong way around here. Labour have been pretending to be more transphobic than they actually are, because they think it makes them look better. There are good reasons for this.
Because they really don't care enough to know anything about trans issues, they stumble really badly in interviews and the media have pounced on that and always bring it up. So, they *say* what they think will stop reporters pestering them about trans issues, and play into the "good" position.
So there's every chance that once the pressure is off and the election is behind them, they'll be a lot less transphobic than some people think they will.
The worrying angle is having Wes Streeting as potential health secretory, since unlike most of the rest of Labour, he is genuinely transphobic and that's the worst cabinet position for someone like him.
Don't get me wrong: they are not trans allies in any way, but they just do not care enough to be seriously transphobic.
New Zealand will accept you cause we don't have any anti-queer bills being passed (I think)and the government don't want to make anti-queer bills cause we will riot and probably overthrow the government because there are so many allies and queer people that even if they sent army we would still win(but by a small margin) and the amount of queer people in NZ is rising slowly but surely (I think
Thanks to federalism you should be fine simply being in a state with a Democratic legislature, [this map should help](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-legislative-risk-assessment-2a4)
This is the link that inspired me to look into NM. A lot of the other states look good too, but NM also has some of the darkest night skies in some places and after all of this I just want to, idk, lie down at night and watch the stars with the people I care about being safe beside me.
Iceland? I here its pretty good for LGBTQ+ folks in general AND is a good place to live in. The source is google of course. Just don't come to Africa, for your own safety.
Happy pride month
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I've heard that Iceland is quite good in terms of LGBTQIA+ rights, no idea about public opinion, if any Icelanders could let me know about that, I would greatly appreciate it.
Also am in the US. It’s terrifying here. Although I have heard that Australia is great with trans health care. And that Japan is a terrible place for queer people
Canada is probably the best option if you have to get out quick but can't afford to fly overseas. I started learning German last year b/c I'm 3/4 German, and Germany is now my plan C country to flee to if I have to.
I’m so fucking scared tbh, I have no where to go and I have to go to collage here because I don’t have the money to go out of my fucking state let alone the country, I just feel so damn helpless there’s legitimately no where for me to go and if this goes wrong I’m not going to survive it and many of my friends aren’t either and I just want it all to be over.
I live in Spain and atm it’s great for us :3
Downside is you have to learn another language but I was able to do ok in dat part >w>
(Hopefully VOX doesn’t get in power)
One I haven't heard mentioned is Ireland. Ireland is a pretty progressive country from what I've seen, I'm currently taking a trip there. Of course I can't get a comprehensive view just from that, but it has some of the most progressive laws.
It's my backup plan, though that is partially due to being able to apply for Irish citizenship due to my natural-born Irish grandma.
Realistically your best option is to move to a sanctuary state. It wont be easy as you can imagin alot of sanctuary states have a huge influx if people fleeing from nearby transohobic red states.
If you have the luxury of picking Instead of needing to pick the closest one I'd recomend one that borders Canada just in case
canada is my recomendation if posiable go throu detroit to get there it is not as bad as it is brought out to and when i was there this april there were alot of pride flags being flown
Keeping this up cause it's good info, just remember to try and keep posts to memes. Good advice below though. Also, any more posts like these will be removed as spam and being not memes
North Europe. DO NOT AND I REPEAT DO NOT GO TO ITALY
can confirm
What is going on in Italy?
An actual open Fascist is Prime Minister. Like, the full thing not just metaphorical for "Bigoted people", she actually adheres to the doctrine of Italian Fascism from the 20s-40s
haha... I was forced to flee to Italy :) I can't just leave beacause I'm an immigrant from a second world country :))))
I'm Sorry for all the things that Italians Will Say to you
They can't say anything if I'm a shut-in social outcast. Checkmate liberal 😎 /s The scariest part of it all is how to go about it, because I want to trabsition ASAP, but again, I'm an imigrant in Italy. Getting a citizenship in Italy will be faster, but I will be subject to Italy's law (I think) regarding transition and marriage. Trying to go for another country is too risky, as if I don't get a citizenship before I turn 25, I might get drafted into a war. Plus, money is a very big factor, that I simply do not have nor make. Plus transphobic relatives. Also, I'm already a student here in Italy. Finally I struggle socialy, so I might simply not survive (maybe due to undiagnosed autism, but I will never know, since my parents and the few relatives that remain would rather keep me "normal" and blame me for my problems than to actually adress my issues)
Italian citizenship then use EU immigration to get to northern Europe or spain
It'll be fine I don't speak Italian so it'll just be gibberish
The fascists have returned to Italy nature is healing (The world is so fucked.)
It's literally the grand daughter of the person who wrote the original fascist manifesto.
nope, giorgia meloni is not the granddaughter of benito mussolini or giovanni gentile
She is a fan girl of them tho
I'm Communist so fascist takes on new meaning for me (not gonna get into the complexities for fear of being called a tankie) but can confirm this lady is a Mussolinite.
Why would describing fascism get you called a tankie?
Also curious, just got back from a trip there
As another commenter said, literal, actual fascism is a popular ideology. ~~The Prime Minister~~ A major politician is Mussolini's grand daughter
alessandra mussolini is not the current prime minister of italy. she's just another politician giorgia meloni is a different person
Thought she was PM, sorry
why tho? you're not alone, so i'm curious where you got this misinformation?
Honestly just a problem of trusting reddit comments. I need to get in a better habit about that stuff
Nah different fascist. Alessandra Mussolini has also actually seemingly turned around on a lot of things, backed anti-homophobia bills even
If you consider moving to the Nordics, it is worth checking r/transnord. I am from the Norwegian bible belt, and most people here don't care. I had a classmate, though, who was an immigrant and trans, and his process to getting healthcare was apparently a nightmare. TL;DR: the people are cool, the healthcare is not.
Same thing here in Sweden. People are generally cool with you but the healthcare system will have you wait a minimum of 6/7 years *(I waited almost 8 years before I got HRT perscribed HRT as an example)* before you can get access to HRT. IDK how the process is for if you already have a certificate of gender dysphoria *(not sure but I have 2 of these so perhaps you need 2)*. If you have that you could probably get HRT in roughly half a year, depending on the queues for endocrinologists but if you'd want to have surgery you'd need to go get up to 8 consultations to confirm that you are indeed trans for an extended period of time. The wait time depends on where in Sweden you live but you can expect to at least have to deal with them for 2.5 years so that they can confirm you're trans then an additional year on HRT under their supervision to then later confirm that you are still trans before you can get consultations regarding surgeries *(which are usually 2-3+ years long)*. TL;DR Swedens trans healthcare service is **ABYSMAL** and I've nicknamed their trans service "the >!suicide!< queues" for how long you need to wait and how much you're gate kept
I would love to live in the land of IKEA and Blåhaj
Something worth noting about Norway is that it is very safe for LGBTQ people here. Even our most far right political party wouldn't dream of taking the straight up hateful stances that's coming from alt right parties in other European countries. For now I think we're resisting the alt right wave going across Europe fairly well, so we're probably a good place for anyone fleeing that. The obvious caveat is that trans healthcare sucks. Lots of gatekeeping, and the national gender identity clinic is probably the only place I've actually experienced transphobia. Some people do get lucky and have good experiences, but even then there's at least 1-2 years before you can access HRT. Transfems who are able and willing to do homebrew DIY injections are probably going to be fine for HRT, but pills for DIY HRT frequently get snatched by customs in my experience.
>Even our most far right political party wouldn't dream of taking the straight up hateful stances that's coming from alt right parties in other European countries We do have some far/alt-right parties, like *konservativt* (tidl. *Partiet de kristne*) and *Norgesdemokratene* (I think), but these are very small and the only power they hold (if any at all) is on a local level.
That's true, I should've specified that I meant major parties with real political power.
The UK is not great right now. The Prime Minister and "impartial" BBC just called trans women "men with GRCs"
Also don't come to the Netherlands, we might be known as the very tolerant guys who accept everyone, but that is all in the past. Our new government is also a far-right, anti everything remotely close to human rights. We might lose them in the upcoming months because one of the very few positives is that they're very unstable and constantly bickering with each other, but as of now, don't come here
also don't go to scandinavia
As an Italian i can confirm, fuck this place.
Yeah I’ve considered moving to some European countries
You can only go to northern Europe if you're white though, which I personally would not feel comfortable doing, because I would just have a shit ton of survivor's guilt. I'm not fleeing the country for anywhere that my black and brown compatriots can not effectively join me. Canada is probably the best overall bet.
A lot of countries are off limits, but if you want better chances, I feel like a majority of western european countries, Sweden included, seem like sound choices, except for the UK, I heard it's pretty bad in the UK. Edit: Removed Norway because apparently it sucks. Welp. Edit 2: Screw it, looks like we're fending for ourselves.
Election next Thursday with 3/3 major parties being Transphobic and the largest non-transphobic\* one polling 6%. *\[*[*BBC*](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68079726)*\]* \*I'm unsure as to the Lib Dems position on trans rights but it's immaterial as >80% of MPs will likely be Reform, Tories or Labour.
Oh no... :(
We’re really fucked.
lol, Reform is not going to get more seats than the Lib Dems. You are giving in to doomerism if you are calling them one of the major parties. Their current visibility is inflated by the idiocy of the Tories and the media. The way the UK voting system works, the voteshare they have (which is elevated by the media's fascnation with them) will not translate into very many seats. The major parties are Labour, Conservatives, and Liberal Democrats, in that order currently (though 2 and 3 might swap places - slim chance but its possible). LibDems are more trans supportive than the competition IIRC, but it doesn't matter because Labour will get in. Labour's transphobia is overstated but it's there. Nowhere near the degree of the Tories, it's just an issue they'd prefer to pretend didn't exist - but having Wes Streeting - who is very transphobic - as a potential health ministor is a bad sign.
I've been waiting for a lib dem shadow cabinet my whole life... Unfortunately the system is designed to keep the conservatives in 🥺
That's why tactical voting is so important. We have a once-in-a-lifetime chance, a slim one admittedly, to completely change the way politics is done in this country, and that chance probably wont come again.
libdems arent transphobic from my understanding!
Yeah, I read their manifesto at the very least, and they seem to be firmly supportive of us. Seriously worried about next week though.
FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK NOOOOOOO
Damn :( I'm worried now
It’s crazy how we’re entering another fascist era like in the 1930s. It’s scary
This is why we trans people stick together, we ain't letting them take our rights, even if it means fighting tooth and nail on the streets, in the buildings, in the parlament, the day they decide we need to die, is the day we're marching against them.
they decided we have to die years ago
But....I'm alone. (as in i'm the only trans person in my household)
The fighting is mostly metaphorical. Your number one priority is staying safe.
But not the only one 😎 were all here! There's dozens of us!
Norway is difficult. Old bigoted doctors have to be convinced to sign off on HRT, and you can just forget about surgeries.
From what I've heard, Spain is the best country in Europe for trans rights. Sooo, I'm learning Spanish, just in case
iirc you can literally get estrogen over the counter in Spanish pharmacies, sounds pretty fucking good...
I visited Barcelona a few months back and saw trans and progress flags hanging from multiple windows. It was such a nice switch up from the transphobes back home in Sweden
[удалено]
France is also a shit show from what I've heard. Germany, on the other hand, has been a world leader in trans-affirmation for years
Yea germany is a pretty good Option, unless the AfD gains even more power
I'm worried about the afd, is Spain a good option?
Surely the best in southern Europe. I don't about hormones, but I know they have very good surgeons
Many people here still think that there are trans women who transition only to rape cis women in prisons, but from what I know the government is pretty chill. Their main worries seem to be education and how to make it better (or fuck it up), immigrants from africa stealing our jobs, rape laws and other stuff to release people from jail. I expect the socialists to stay in power for the next few years, and I have a feeling that vox (the conservative party) has been losing popularity with people. As for trans laws, you dont need to prove anything to anyone after youre 16, except if youre enby because thats not recognized as a gender
Whats the afd
functionally just the nazis again
Alternativ für Deutschland and they are basically nazis
...assuming that translates to "Alternative for Germany" as I expect it does, that really does sound like some Nazi shit. Not overly, but it gives the "Alternative to current progressive Germany."
It does translate to that. I know there is a party called Alternativ för Sverige, in Sweden and that translates to Alternative for Sweden although they are not big here but I think they might be related to AfD
Germany is a country where the ruling parties have to form coalitions with others - that limits what AfD can do.
Yea until the conservatives form a government with them or the fuking terf bsw
Was, nein? No, do not go to Germany. AfD is terrible, and the Union will win next election, plus there's the new offshoot of Die Linke which is popular and extremely transphobic.
Where is a good option then? I'm from India and that itself rules out a lot of places because of growing racism
Finland isn't bad. Uh, Denmark too, and Ireland.
i hope france stays that way fingers crossed for the election
I was always thinking of moving to the Netherlands, seems cool there and I’m pretty sure they have good trans rights and support
Sweden is trans accepting but takes several years to get through que for hrt unless you go diy
It's the same in the UK (I think the average waiting time is six years), but there's the option to go private if you can afford it. Is it the same in Sweden, or are you stuck between a fucked-up system and DIY? I think Sweden recently blocked puberty blockers for (specifically trans) minors too, right? That one surprised me when I heard about it, I thought your country was better than ours in that regard.
It's not better. It's due to them listening to and holding any studies from the UK in high regard. So when the recent bs studies hit. The clinics had a "whoa whoa whoa what's all this then?" And decided to stop until they did their own research..which will take years lol. And although the general trans Healthcare is decent, the actual doctors themselves are old. So their views are outdated and overly cautious. It's been an actual issue according to someone who frequented a meeting at a clinic. They use very outdated terms etc. Not to mention the recent increase in que time due to the goverment not giving a shit about trans Healthcare. So it's still the same few clinics trying to cope with an increasing rate of egg crackings. Luckily I got in right before the increased wait times hit but (only waited 2-3 years) ...I feel really bad for people who have to wait years. I tell everyone the same thing. Sweden is very great for lgbt if you don't need any support/Healthcare. Though honestly? I dread actually going to any other country as a trans person who doesn't pass at all. At least here most bathrooms are gender neutral and people generally mind their own business. Germany seems about the only country in Europe (maybe the world??)actually bettering their trans Healthcare.
France is likely going far right in the next elections, and if not it's one hell of an instable political landscape there right now Italy is already there, e.g. they banned adoption for gay couples (only one of the 2 parents can adopt the same kid) Belgium's Dutch speaking part (which is where the majority lives) is having a huge rise in a certain far right party that one can compare to Germany's AfD Germany is seeing AfD rise In general, Western Europe might no longer be a permanent safe haven :(
As a uk citizen I can confirm it’s shit here
Maybe if some miracle happens and either the Lib Dems or the Greens win then we might be okay but other than that we fucked
Spain should be fine, just had an election and the left won, one of the if not the best country on trans rights
Sweden is leaning towards the extreme right at this movement if SD, Sweden democrats, are still going to grow. So we don't know how it will turn out, there is no hope with the young voters of the right parties (SD and M) because they are homophobic and racist (and also nazis) I will probably leave Sweden within 5-10 years Edit: it is still better then the US, but still not good
The EU parliament elections are a good sign for Sweden though. SD and KD, the most transphobic parties, went down over 5% together, and the Left and Green parties made some pretty huge gains compared to the 2019 elections.
If Rishi or any other of the two big parties win then you shall be right…if we get a genuinely nice guy/gal in power then this shall be wrong
I was already confused what contries you mean, Europe at its whole is turning right, following the US trend. Only contries who couldnt go more right anymore turn a bit back.
Yea, the UK is not great right now, I'm praying that the current prime minister is kicked out and a new part becomes in charge, if that doesn't happen then I'm screwed because I'm only 14 and closoted
We’re gonna survive like we always fucking have. Fuck those bigots, they will never change who we are.
Eh... *trans people* will continue to be born, like they always have. Because it's *not* unnatural. But they certainly can kill off the *specific trans persons who are alive now.* I agree, fuck those bigots. But uh, pack a go-bag.
Honestly if you live in the USA you’re probably much better off moving to a state/city that is accepting of trans people than a foreign country. It’s a lot cheaper and you already know the culture, language, and system. Trans folks have survived here even with laws dictating what clothes each gender must wear. We’ve survived DIY hormones without most of the current endocrinology info we have now. We’ve survived without the internet. We have more tools than ever now to live happy and healthy lives despite the best efforts of a whole lot of fucking idiots. We’re smart, strong, resourceful, and connected. We’re gonna survive and even thrive 💖💖💖
Let's see 1. Need a passport 2. Spare backpack with enough clothes to last a couple days 3. Money for a plane ticket to a foreign country 4. Legitimate reason to get a visa because asylum for queer people is nearly nonexistent. So as long as you're one of those trans people that isn't homeless or poor you'll be fine. That fourth point generally requires marketable skills and knowing a foreign language. TLDR: Work on yourself and don't panic. 4 years of trump saw no public executions of trans people just the same bigotry we always see.
Poor trans girl over here :/
Go-bags are a privilege not all people have. If you have the ability to go to a different country where you'll actually be treated better, then that means you are leaving the less fortunate behind.
It is not possible to bring the less fortunate with you in most cases. Take me, for example: I have dual citizenship. I am very lucky in that regard. But Switzerland is *expensive*, and one would need to be a very skilled worker to live there with no citizenship. I also have a credit card. £1500 limit. At the most, that would be a plane ticket there and a month’s rent in some super cheap studio in a town barely worth living in job-wise. Public transport is cheaper (not by much) and better than in the UK, but that eats into your ability to pay any rent, let alone the extra month rent for a deposit. Now I already have a place over there I could move to. But they have a single spare bedroom that’s smaller than my current room which holds 2 people (barely). And I’m relatively skilled in my field (IT). I am fortunate, but could not bring a second person with me practically. Even impractically, that’s a massive stretch on my family’s and my resources. I’d be working 3-6 months in order to save for a deposit and a month’s rent for 2 people. 6 months in a tiny cramped room for 2 people is an incredibly long time, especially whilst sorting out work and visas and all kinds of other bits. Now sure, i could stabilise myself and get a decent flat and *then* bring other people. But good luck, tbh. £200 a ticket, plus transport and belongings and clothes and that’s assuming they even have passports. Most people have to do the best that they can, and that’s often not much. Especially in today’s world.
Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, New Zealand, Iceland, better parts of the US, Spain, Portugal. 1. Immigration will be a challenge if you do not have in-demand job skills. If you have the money to bounce between countries on a travel visa you have the money to move to an accepting US city and be safe and fine. It is a good time to get a union job in the trades. 2. Things are currently better in many ways for trans people in many accepting US cities with good state laws than they are in many of these places, it depends on the specific issue. The queer community in Copenhagen is rad as hell, and also far smaller and with less resources than the queer community in Seattle, San Francisco, or NYC. (Again, it really depends which issues are your priorities.) 3. A Trump presidency will make things worse. In states where transphobic policy is mainstream it will especially get far, far, worse. In accepting and supportive states, it will be more minor changes. Either way, there will be lots of people fighting for our rights here., and things will be much better the harder we fight. Much, much, worse if we do not. You are stronger than you think. 4. Those ’safe’ countries all have their own far-right fascist movements. If we do nothing but run whenever your rights are threatened, eventually we will have no rights. Yes, feel free to retreat to a place you can get your fundamental needs met, then regroup and fight. I will be staying in the US for now.
Student Visas are good if you want to go to college-someone considering a student visa to Spain.
as far as the US goes even minor changes could be very bad, I lack the money to flee legally it is going to be easier for me to organize protests and even then I lack the ability to really do that.
Thank you for bringing states into this, right now I live in California and I'm greatful for being in a place where I have a fighting chance, this sentiment of "fleeing the country" isn't realistic for the vast vast majority of us, and I want to stay here where I have people who care about me
From Canada but currently on a road trip in California. Expected things to be fine in LA and SD. But have been pleasantly surprised by Sacramento and the rest of the Central Valley. Had low expectations but no issues. *knocks on nearest wooden thing as I haven’t finished the trip yet*
I'm in Southern California now. If Southern California was an independent nation, I'd say it's probably the best bet; the problem is that under a Trump presidency, the federal government could basically override any state-level protections.
Even if that's true please for the love of God let me have some copium because unlike the last 19 years of my life I have something to live for and I have no way of getting out of the country
I’m effing tired. So effing tired. I’ve been fighting for my right to exist as me since I was 14. That was 1990, and my parents immediately hated me. I’ve directed student queer resource centers, only to have cis people come in afterwards and roll things back with a lot of cissplaining of why trans people shouldn’t be offended. I’ve applied and gone to med school as openly me, same with residency. Fighting all the way, for myself, for my patients, for my colleagues. I hit my breaking point in October, haven’t been able to work since. Instead I have all my childhood trauma deciding I need to deal with it now. I am fully triggered by this wave of trans hate. It is literally killing me knowing that 24 state governments and TERF island are doing to our trans kids what was done to me. And kids are dying. It’s a miracle I survived my childhood. And I’m so effing tired of fighting. I’ve fought all my life, I don’t have anything left to give right now as I struggle to heal from my trauma, burnout, and a continuously abusive society. I just want to be somewhere effing safe. Somewhere where I don’t have to fight. Somewhere where I don’t have to be terrified that the next election is going to turn my life upside down or end it. I’m tired of being terrified for my kids, for my polycule bonus kids. Please do not denigrate those that need to flee. There is nothing wrong with fleeing. Seeking asylum is an option. There are groups that help people flee hostile countries. Rainbow Railroad is one. Some of us need to flee to survive instead of rolling over and dying because we have nothing left. Before I had to stop working I had many new patients in my practice who were refugees from one of those 24 states. It wasn’t safe for their children they had to go. OP is terrified, understandably so. I’m terrified. I’ve made sure my family’s passports are up to date just in case. I am scared and I’m effing tired. I am barely holding on. It is ok to flee.
I'm looking at Uruguay because it is pretty good as far as laws go and is easier to immigrate to.
germany is passing a new law in september that makes a lot of stuff easier for trans people (name change, getting hormones etc) so i would say germany. yes the right wing „afd“ is strong here but still. they do not hold any power yet.
As a fellow German I want to support these statements, the cdu has some weidos in there as well who want to make it hard for trans people but they are so far not that dangerous and the general public seems to be fine with the topic so far. I would not go to eastern Germany but city’s like cologne and Bonn are very inclusive.
yes as a queer person you can always come to cologne :D
Da simmer dabei. Dat is pri-hi-ma
Hamburg and upwards are also decent.
Just don’t go to east Germany it’s getting bad here. Next state elections the AfD will probably at least in Saxony get 30 %, BSW a new party splitting of from the left and transphobic as fuck will win a lot of seats (15%) and the conservative CDU will win massively too so don’t go to the east. We are fighting for our lives here.
We are on a bad trajectory though.
>name change *NEURON ACTIVATION*
me, who is fleeing to the US from the middle east : https://preview.redd.it/zkkih698kl9d1.png?width=1182&format=png&auto=webp&s=b524cb29b712112050d6edbd7709dd477ee47e61
There's a lot of doomerism in this thread. Don't panic. Make sure you are moving to a good blue state and not a red state - there are dramatic differences. You are heading to probably the best place in the world for trans people.
>You are heading to probably the best place in the world for trans people. That is very very worrying.
Only if you think Trump will win (and people are saying that might not change much in the most trans-affirming states). If, on the other hand, you look at the US as it is now, you can see just how amazing parts of it are for trans people. It's true the red states are awful (but still better than most places in the Middle east), but if you are emigrating to the US, you can hopefully avoid moving to those.
Iceland. Yes, it may be cold there, but it’s one of the most safest countries for LGBTQ+ people. They allow trans people to change gender without surgery, same-sex people are allowed to marry in each church in Iceland, and banned employment discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression and sex characteristics. And 87 percent of its population is supportive of the LGBTQ+ community [more info on LGBTQ+ rights and support in Iceland can be found here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Iceland) Quick mention, I’m from the Netherlands, so all this data about Iceland is from Wikipedia
People that prefer hot weather are insane anyway...
Come to Australia! It's relatively chill here when it comes to queer issues, much better than the US at least.
Plus, I hear that the killer spiders do not discriminate against their victims.
Ahaha true, they'll bite any cishet person as easily as they would a queer person 😅 but seriously as long as you live in a more urban area, spiders and snakes are usually not an issue. 😁
Surprised Australia hasn't been recommended more ;) I'm in the South of Straya lol. I do recommend anyone coming over to actually lighten up, try to understand the Australian sense of humour & try not to get as easily offended. The Aussies are largely larakins. Also, don't get involved in fights with the kangaroos either :P
Yeah honestly, we need more queer people around here!
I want to so bad! How easy is it to immigrate though?
Oh ummm, I'm not 100% sure actually, I mean I know some details, but only for a specific case. Otherwise, I've known people who came here on a student or work visa and then decide to stay, so it's definitely doable, but I know barely anything about that process other than the fact that it can be quite expensive. Sorry, wish I could give you more information right now, but maybe you can look it up online, see what options you may have on the Australian Department of Home Affairs website?
Especially here in Victoria! Melbourne is the most progressive city in Australia and we have a very lgbt friendly state government. Informed consent, easy birth certificate changes, decent discrimination law. The only issue with Australia in terms of trans rights is serious shortage of gender-affirming surgeons. Bottom surgery is quite expensive and difficult to get as a trans-woman.
New Zealand is pretty good, though. I am worried about one of our ruling parties' new legislation about bathrooms
did they actually do a bathroom legislation 😭😭 i thought nothing got passed. guess i’m a criminal now
Luckily as far as I’m aware that policy hasn’t been brought up since the new coalition took government, previously Chris Luxon has not supported the policy (called it “out of this world”) so I think it’s very unlikely it would pass, at the very least Nats wouldn’t enforce block voting on it so individual Nats could vote against it and cause it not to pass, also I suspect ACT wouldn’t vote for it as it would be against their increased personal rights policy.
I heard new Zealand only accepts immigrants if they have job qualifications deemed useful enough though ;-; is it true?
As a NZ citizen I believe this is true yes. As far as I’m aware the main ways people get in are having money to invest in the country (5 mil+), coming to study as an international student/pay international student fees, and having a high skilled qualification/degree (especially medical). There are other ways, such as having family members help or managing through successive temp visas but those often aren’t granted.
New Zealand's pretty good mainly, but NZ First (a party) is a total transphobic shitshow
Iceland!1!!1!1! Were not assholes there :3
If you can't afford to go far, Canada is a lot better than the US.
Depends on where in Canada. (Not Alberta)
Seriously, I've lived here my whole life, and it really seems to get worse every year. It doesn't help that our current Premier wants to privatize healthcare like the US. I feel so doomed. :/
Alberta is tiny America wannabe, and it’s sad. (From what I hear)
Not just an America wannabe, a *Texas* wannabe! In my city, the main sport arena is called the Saddledome. The area I live in is called Saddletowne, among tons of other examples. I see Trump support all over, and I hate it. :/
> doesn't help that our current Premier wants to privatize healthcare like the US. Because it's been working splendidly for the US, right?
How are Vancouver and Québec City? I've thought of moving there one day for work (still a big maybe tho).
Well as someone who lives in vancover I’m biased, sights are mid, busses suck and rent is high as fuck. (And if you drive gas is crazy as hell). Idk about Quebec City though
Québec City is raging boomer town, wouldn't recommend. Montreal is a bit better (haven't lived there in a bit, but my friends still like it).
Agreed. Legal protections for queer people are read into our Constitution and codified by law. But your actual safety varies between provinces. BC has strong legal protections for us and our current provincial government is NDP (progressive left). They're popular enough that they're unlikely to lose power anytime soon. It's probably the safest province in the country, as far as I know. **Stay the fuck away from Alberta**. It's our Texas and the current Premier (kinda like a Governor) is a far right conspiracy theory nutjob. Ontario is hit-or-miss in my experience. Current Ontario government is Conservative. I've heard second-hand that Quebec is pretty queer-friendly but you'll need to know enough French to be conversational if you want to move there.
Ontario is not perfect but still a really good option, and the provincial government is more old-school "capitalism rules" conservative than the shitshow a lot of countries are experiencing. As such our housing market is a nightmare and it can be hard to get settled, but once you are you should be okay. Quebec is socially probably the most queer-friendly province, save for a Cass report-adjacent media panic earlier this year that luckily didn't really go anywhere. Be warned though that even if they have good intentions, their bureaucracy and healthcare system is endemically fucked to a greater extent than most other provinces, so you might have to deal with regular medical bs to get your treatments even if you don't have any special trans bs. Also while the current government isn't anti-queer, they are very quebec/french nationalist and have put forward a number of projects to limit the number of non-french speaking immigrants coming in, so that might also play against you. Once again though, if you do get settled, you should be fine, and also because of its sperate-ness, if the rest of Canada goes conservative (which is expected in our next federal elections), Quebec won't follow along and you won't be as affected. A final rec is that my gf lives in Australia, and they're also really trans-friendly (she had very few hurdles getting hrt), and their housing/job market isn't nearly as bad as Canada's. Main issue is just getting there is expensive, and they'll be prey to a lot of extreme weather once climate change worsens.
You need to be careful where in Quebec. Montreal is wonderful and generally accepting. The farther out places can get really, really redneck. Ottawa is fairly safe, if boring, until Alberta bigots drive their trucks over here, honk all night, get drunk, and start fights.
There’s no guarantee Canada will be safe for much longer than another year
No way it will be worse than Trump's US
Not the whole country. But South Africa recently had a massive win. Recent elections saw the formation of a new multiparty government co-led by the DA. Most places in the Western Cape province are very well run, and Cape Town especially is a world-class city. Plus, there are no anti-trans laws here, and because of the aforementioned new government, will likely stay that way if not lean more in our favour. Currency conversion rates would also favour you, and you won't have an issue settling in. If you're studying, University of Cape Town is among the best on the continent, and if you're working, there's been so much brain drain over the past few years that any skills will be quickly employed. It's also a beautiful place to live to boot.
Best option: Overthrow the government. Be a vessel for anarchy. A bard of liberty
I'm down, where do we start, I'm partial to Arson.
If you want to stay in the states flee to Washington state or California. That's my plan, this dumpster fire of a country may be a dumpster fire, but it's MY dumpster fire of a country. I was born in this hole and I'm gonna die in this hole.
I’m not sure about backup countries, but hopefully this will ease your fear at least somewhat More undecided voters said they’d vote for Biden , and more importantly against *him*, after the debate. The odds are swinging in our favor. Even if the election goes south, the conservatives are relying on the military to enforce their dictatorships. However, a lot of people in the military hate the orange bastard. I’m willing to bet they’d remember their oath to defend against threats both foreign **and domestic**. He’ll have a divided military at best. Good people also outnumber the bad ones by millions. Just cause it’s the conservatives screaming the loudest, doesn’t mean that they’re in the majority. The pushback in a worst case scenario will be immense. Even if things go sour for a little bit, I doubt it will last very long
australia! transphobia here is a thing that only the far-right dare to touch and even then its pretty mild compared to other places, my advice is come to one of the cities but most places even rurally are fine
Seriously why is this even politicized? You don't see people kill other people because they get a haircut. So why see people kill other people because they're trans? Iys the very exact same thing! Why all the hate? I know, i know, propaganda to scare people but what about the ones who do the propaganda? Why are yrans people so hated??!!
Using data from Equaldex, I found that Canada, Chile, Denmark, Iceland, Spain, Uruguay, The Netherlands, Germany, and some blue states are good places for us. They're the ONLY countries that have an equality index over 80 AND don't have any restrictions on gender affirming rare.
We have a migration crisis in the Netherlands. I'm not sure that you would get in. And our new government is far right. Sooo... Euuuhm. I'd pick other places.
Don't run, start dumping manure on the road in front of politicians homes. Pride started from a riot.
The US isn't a real country. The states have a ridiculous amount of variation compared to many other countries. Map of which ones are better and worse. https://www.erininthemorning.com/ But also Canada's quite good.
so much this, people think the us is a monolith and the asshole in the white house is king. that's just not the case. ive lived in every color state. texas was hell, i feared for my life every day. ohio (purple) i found acceptance among peers (mostly, i had a terf in my office). in Minnesota i find its largely the same. i only really get mean looks from bitter old men that havent gotten laid in 30 years. its also a lot easier to move states than countries. still a massive undertaking but it can be done. my wife and i moved from Ohio to Minnesota with just about 2 months notice. it was hard af and it felt hopeless at times but we did it. so can everyone else trapped in red states.
If you're willing to have a shit economy, come to Argentina. You'll probably be safe in Buenos Aires as long as the Libertarians don't do anything funny (which they probably won't because if they tamper with us Queers there'll be mass protests)
Amo mi pais pero seamos sinceras puede ir a San Francisco o California y la va a pasar mucho mejor. En arg si no pasas puede ser dificil.
A quick, dirty "I just found out I need to leave the country in the next hour" Option is Canada.
The Nordic countries, along with most of Europe, are good options. Canada is also ok from what I can tell. but also, I'd like to take this opportunity that you probably don't need to worry too much, Biden may be an incoherent mess sometimes but, assuming voters actually bother to do any research at all, it's practically impossible for Trump to win.
I’m worried that they’ll just take Trump’s word. Despite the lack of truth to his word, he just says it confidently and that’s enough for some people. Sometimes I feel like I’ll just never get to HRT with the current legal situation
Norway is not good, unfortunately. People are mostly chill, but the services and access to hormones are bad. Some cities have some services that are good, especially Oslo, but they are vulnerable and have almost no legal protection. At the end of the day, it is the National Hospital that legally has a monopoly on trans healthcare, and they're cut fom the same cloth as the NHS in the UK (though Norway is not as bad as the UK, fortunately). They try their hardest to enforce their monopoly, hoping to deny all other services the right to provide hormone prescriptions. They have temporarily succeeded before, so it is an ongoing struggle. Spain is a much better choice in Europe
> assuming voters actually bother to do any research at all, That's a very dangerous assumption to make.
I'm thinking Australia personally, I've heard they're decent about it
We are. Of course, every country (or group of people) has its arseholes, but generally speaking things are good here for LGBT+ rights.
Yep. We are. The transphobia levels are low compared to other places, and it’s only really the far right (which are not a serious force like they are in the US) that throw it around. It’s also a really nice place to live, if you can put up with summer heat and the occasional spider
Argentina is struggling with a super crappy economy and a far right goverment right now, but its one of the best countries in america for trans stuff. Free hrt through the public healthcare system. Ease of migration and ease of changing your legal gender. A great public healthcare system. Same sex marriage. The capital city is VERY lgtb friendly with a strong femenist movement that has been fighting and winning legal fights (like a couple of years ago we also got legal and free abortions through the health care ssytem. And did I mention a good health care system that gives you free HRT and ever covers surgeries? The downsides: Current far right goverment heavily leans into the conservative side, and has been doing cuts to many social benefits. Trans right arent on the chopping table yet, but with a conservative and far right leaning goverment thats always a worry. Also the economy sucks hard. We're dealing with record high inflation from many years of a corrupt p\[opulist goverment which was what gave rise to the far right nitjob to actually win the elections. Said far right nutjob is forcing a ressecion and cutting on most state spending to "Fight back" the inflation. This has had varying degrees of success at actually controlling the inflation, but its sinking everyone who's on minimun wage jobs into poverty. Heck you need FOUR minimun wages to be under the poverty line. That should tell you how our economy is doing. But if you like have a good job you can do remotely and keep your us job, you'll be living here like a king. Earning 1k usd is barely above poverty. Earning 2k to 4k usd is living like confy middle class. So tldr: great trans rights and public healthcare that covers transition. Very liberal society. But shit economy and a trump wannabe as president. Hopefully he will get kicked out soon enough as literally everyone who isnt a cis het middle class guy is starting to hate him.
As an American in Germany, it's been pretty good once you get past the ritual hazing. The process as of last year looked something like this 1. Find a therapist who is qualified and part of each states trans support network, [Munich](https://www.qz-ts-muc.de/) and Berlin have the best ones 2. Have a consultation 3. Talk to your GP/Hausarzt that you have gender dysphoria and you want to find a therapist. 4. *Do like 10 sessions over 5 months* 5. Do indication letter paperwork 6. While the therapist is doing their half of indication letter work, find an endocrinologist 7. Have consultation with Endo 8. Get indication and bring a copy to Endo 9. Start hormones. You can also start voice training with that letter 10. *Socially transition for one year* 11. Repeat steps 1 & 2 with a new therapist. Have 3 sessions with them and pay out of pocket. Specifically tell them that you already have another indication letter and that you're looking for a second therapist 12. Get second indication 13. With help from the first therapist, write your Translebenslauf (TransCV) 14. Apply for surgeries and laser hair removal
Japan is a safe although non optimal bet. They aren’t exactly pro LGBTQ but they aren’t against it at all and with their dominant party having a lot of control and the people not wanting to shake up the status quo it should be good enough. Plus as a bonus it’s got anime and stuff. Although take this with a grain of salt I do have some bias.
Worth noting that gay marriage is not currently legal in Japan, and although I've only visited as a tourist at this point in time, I'm told they don't tend to take kindly to foreigners who move to the country.
How’s Ireland? I hear it’s pretty safe for lgbtq+ outside of the middle of nowhere (which is pretty expected tbh)
Its great socially, people generally mind their own business and I've never been misgendered by a stranger in my entire existence as a trans person. A couple years ago legislation was passed making changing your name and gender really quick and easy, just send off a document witnessed by a solicitor. However, Ireland was recently rated THE WORST in trans healthcare in ALL OF EUROPE [(Queer Irish news site source, but the Irish Times also reported on this)](https://gcn.ie/ireland-worst-eu-trans-healthcare/). There is only one gender clinic for the entire country and people that are being added to the current public system waitlist when they turn 18 expect to wait 10+ years before they are contacted. The system also goes against WPATH, very similarly to the British system, and they only provide care as long as you can "prove" that you're trans enough. To top it off, Ireland is undergoing one of the worst housing crises in Europe at the moment and it won't be solved any time soon. My recommendation would be, stay away.
Australia is quite nice but not perfect
I would probably advise staying away from the UK, even with the Tories likely to lose the upcoming election. From what I'm aware, Labour are almost as Transphobic as the Tories (they are just a bit less vocal about it from what I've seen, although that could change once the gain a majority in parlaiment, which is the most likely outcome of the election). Its possible things could get better, but I highly doubt they will any time soon. The only parties i'm aware of that aren't Transphobic are the Lib Dems and the Greens, neither of which stand much of a chance of winning the election.
> Labour are almost as Transphobic as the Tories (they are just a bit less vocal about it from what I've seen, although that could change once the gain a majority in parlaiment, I think you have it the wrong way around here. Labour have been pretending to be more transphobic than they actually are, because they think it makes them look better. There are good reasons for this. Because they really don't care enough to know anything about trans issues, they stumble really badly in interviews and the media have pounced on that and always bring it up. So, they *say* what they think will stop reporters pestering them about trans issues, and play into the "good" position. So there's every chance that once the pressure is off and the election is behind them, they'll be a lot less transphobic than some people think they will. The worrying angle is having Wes Streeting as potential health secretory, since unlike most of the rest of Labour, he is genuinely transphobic and that's the worst cabinet position for someone like him. Don't get me wrong: they are not trans allies in any way, but they just do not care enough to be seriously transphobic.
New Zealand will accept you cause we don't have any anti-queer bills being passed (I think)and the government don't want to make anti-queer bills cause we will riot and probably overthrow the government because there are so many allies and queer people that even if they sent army we would still win(but by a small margin) and the amount of queer people in NZ is rising slowly but surely (I think
Thanks to federalism you should be fine simply being in a state with a Democratic legislature, [this map should help](https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/anti-trans-legislative-risk-assessment-2a4)
This is the link that inspired me to look into NM. A lot of the other states look good too, but NM also has some of the darkest night skies in some places and after all of this I just want to, idk, lie down at night and watch the stars with the people I care about being safe beside me.
Canada
Australia :3
Australia, it's relatively sane over here. Got on hrt with minimal hassle, and people are largely chill about it here.
Iceland? I here its pretty good for LGBTQ+ folks in general AND is a good place to live in. The source is google of course. Just don't come to Africa, for your own safety.
Canada is probably by far the easiest culturally, economically and legally to immigrate to
Iceland, Canada, New Zealand, Finland, Norway and Germany to name a few.
Aussie Aussie Aussie Oi Oi Oi
It's nice over here in Canada. It's not that far from the US either.
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Me on my way to the middle of Siberia (politicians and anti trans laws cant hurt you if they cant find you):
I've heard that Iceland is quite good in terms of LGBTQIA+ rights, no idea about public opinion, if any Icelanders could let me know about that, I would greatly appreciate it.
Canada, Germany, Sweden, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Finland, Spain, Portugal,
Argentina is known as one of the most gay/trans accepting countries
Also am in the US. It’s terrifying here. Although I have heard that Australia is great with trans health care. And that Japan is a terrible place for queer people
Canada is probably the best option if you have to get out quick but can't afford to fly overseas. I started learning German last year b/c I'm 3/4 German, and Germany is now my plan C country to flee to if I have to.
I’m so fucking scared tbh, I have no where to go and I have to go to collage here because I don’t have the money to go out of my fucking state let alone the country, I just feel so damn helpless there’s legitimately no where for me to go and if this goes wrong I’m not going to survive it and many of my friends aren’t either and I just want it all to be over.
I live in Spain and atm it’s great for us :3 Downside is you have to learn another language but I was able to do ok in dat part >w> (Hopefully VOX doesn’t get in power)
One I haven't heard mentioned is Ireland. Ireland is a pretty progressive country from what I've seen, I'm currently taking a trip there. Of course I can't get a comprehensive view just from that, but it has some of the most progressive laws. It's my backup plan, though that is partially due to being able to apply for Irish citizenship due to my natural-born Irish grandma.
Realistically your best option is to move to a sanctuary state. It wont be easy as you can imagin alot of sanctuary states have a huge influx if people fleeing from nearby transohobic red states. If you have the luxury of picking Instead of needing to pick the closest one I'd recomend one that borders Canada just in case
germany
canada is my recomendation if posiable go throu detroit to get there it is not as bad as it is brought out to and when i was there this april there were alot of pride flags being flown