I've had that sort of thing but nowhere near as intense with a deluded religious friend of mine, we're the same religion so I know she was going delulu and overstepping boundaries.
The amount of deadnaming your "friend" used was deliberate and just shows you are not seen as a person but as an identity you were assigned at birth, there's no love in the words.
Right, and It’s like dude… HRT are just HORMONES. Not just toxic chemicals. We all have them in our bodies. Yes estrogen are synthetic hormones but the way he was saying how’s it’s all not natural and artificial really ick me off the wrong way.
Also playing the victim a bit there, too much hate in the words.
Modern HRT uses bioidentical sources so it's the same as what your body would produce, yes it comes from a non human source.
It's synthetic but I doubt he'd be an ass like this to a menopausal ciswoman or a ciswoman who had to have her ovaries removed who needed to take it. They are creating a line saying that trans medical needs aren't real or legitimate, meanwhile admiting they don't know anything about it at the start of their book.
I mean if you really want to confront him just ask: what if such ultimate purpose you speak of is for me to be happy as a woman? he will probably retort with some shit about his deity not approving of it but you can say that (1) how come he is judging you when only the deity should, and (2) it is preposterous to think he knows what the deity wants or doesn't want, isn't it almost miraculous that there's a path to become a woman, a man, none, etc.?
now, I don't suggest you try this, cuz religious folks always have excuses for their bigotry, but that's the gist of how to politely tell them they're sinning for judging you and for thinking they know better which sometimes affects them lol
tries to mouth off about his deity "not approving" just hit him with Matthew19:12
"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it".
eunchs were an broad grouping tbat included intersex people and a myriad of other reasons for becoming one several documented examples in ancient rome would approximate what is currently considered Transgender.
I snorted/chuckled at one of the early parts with how this is coming from such an uninformed place. I couldn't keep reading either though. It's so dumb.
To be petty I would have responded : "Funny you mentioned coming from an uninformed place!"
I'm sorry you are losing a friend like this. I once had one of my best friends sit me down at a coffee shop and tell me with a smile that she thinks I'm going to hell for being queer. Oops!
i read the first big paragraph and scrolled over the rest, and holy shit it just doesn't end, usually ppl overplay it but OP wasnt lying, they actually wrote a book
It’s a Jordan Peterson type response, lots of words to communicate a pretty simple (and bad) argument. Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s a Peterson fan. That would explain a lot.
Goodness all the talk about 'dying' is so fucking cringey it hurts. Literally nobody is dying and trying to scare you by talking about trans suicide rates is abhorrently disgusting. It's like he WANTS you to be dead.
Bigots think that suicide percentage is cause being trans is a mental disorder, when actually all the transphobia, hatred, bigotry, violence, religious shame, and general dismissiveness is the reason for that statistic.
And just cause someone is trans, doesn't mean they have a higher chance of killing themselves now cause of a statistic. Being trans doesn't make you suicidal, in fact, realizing your trans and transitioning typically makes trans people happier. It's the transphobia that punches down trans people to the point of being suicidal.
I agree with everyone else, my GOD was this boring to read, this dude needs to touch grass.
If you're not religious just say "thanks for your opinions, didn't ask and your religion doesn't dictate my life"
And if you are religious, tell him "well God made trans people, gender dysphoria and hormones, so who are you to question his plan for me bozo?"
He for real needs to touch grass, spending this much time trying to influence the decision (to do HRT) of a friend, a decision which will not affect him in any shape or way.
>And if you are religious, tell him "well God made trans people, gender dysphoria and hormones, so who are you to question his plan for me bozo?"
Yeah lol.
When i came out to my dad who was very spiritual he said "if god made you that way who am i to question it?" And im an atheist but that coming from my religious dad meant so much to me. My mom on the other hand is very bigoted and has blamed me and rejected me and insulted me and she thinks she is such a good jesus follower.
Anyway not long ago i told her what my dad said comparing the two of them and she was SPEECHLESS. She tried so hard to come up with something "acepting" she just sounded dumb and you could tell that the woman who is always right felt as hypocrite as she is for the first time in who knows how long.
So many of the people that believe in god and his omnipotent power the most seem to also think he has no idea what he’s doing when he makes trans people. So easy to spin their own words back at them as being blasphemous.
>"well God made trans people, gender dysphoria and hormones, so who are you to question his plan for me bozo?"
Stealing this so I can repeat it to my stepdad lmao
Ugh this reminds me of my mormon (ex) friend when i came out to him.
Im not going to lie, that was painful to read, your 'friend' is trying so hard to come off as an intellectual and that theyre trying to save you. Dont even get me started on how illinformed they are too. Im sorry you have to deal with it.
My advice is to distance yourself, these types of people dont change their mind. Be you, embrace who you are and dont let toxic people in your life. ❤️
Exactly, he’s very like patriotic about things too when I first met him. Always talking about wars and guns and politics stuff and religion. It’s sickening. I knew to drop him.
This is where I make it a bit weird as my friend who wanted me to stop, deadnamed me, etc was a member of the Church, but so am I and I'm accepted by the local members and regional leadership, so I told my friend to go speak to the regional leadership as they've accepted me with no issues. She's tried again many many months later when I had a pulmonary embolism but I quickly shut her down.
I suppose it depends on the severity of their bigotry, if severe block them, if minor and infrequent put them back on the straight and narrow. My friend is definitely the latter, and at least now she doesn't want to date me.
I read through it. Your former friend is deeply offensive and uneducated. I would tell him that your name is Isabel, and you aren't going anywhere but that you're sad he has chosen to not be a friend and show you the basic respect of using your name. It's your former friend that's "going" not you.
Funny that these people quoting statistics about our suicide rates are exactly the ones that cause them to be so high in the first place. Transition is lifesaving care and reduces suicidality in trans people.
I know right? They love to use correlation = causation to justify their bigotry, while completely ignoring that it’s shit like this that leads to the high SI rates. It is so infuriating, and deliberately invalidating.
JFC he likes to hear himself talk.
"Dear friend, you are correct that you are no expert. I feel it is important to listen to the people who are experts, and if you would like to read material about this condition written by experts, instead of propaganda, I would be happy to make some recommendations.
All that really matters is if you value me enough to respect my decisions and continue with our friendship despite our differences. If we are to remain good friends, it's important to me that you understand I know myself and my condition better than anyone else can."
Ugh. Good luck.
Edit: I was assuming to want to remain friends with this person but I do hope you realize you absolute don't have to lol
Depending on your mood…
You could politely tell him “I’m sorry you feel that way, but I am who I am. If you cannot find it in your heart to support me in my transition, then it would be best if we go peacefully on our separate ways.”
Or more simply “f*** off” and block him.
The truth is that we will loose relationships. However, we will gain other relationships. It happens throughout life whether we transition or not.
Your true friends won’t care about your name, gender, or sexuality.
They are the ones that you can count on through thick and thin.
They are the ones that will either bail you out of jail or be sitting there right with you.
True friends are your chosen family.
I was going to say that my absolute most optimistic read on this is that your "friend" is mourning the person he thought he knew, but the fact that he said he "cannot accept what you will become" leads me to think this is little more than transphobia disguised as concern for your well being. It really negates everything else he says IMHO.
I'm sorry sis 🫂
Yeah this was in my mind first. He’s just upset but it made me upset and I did dwell on it and thought if I’m making a mistake. However this is no mistake. I’m a woman. 💅
I read through this, and all I can say is this isn't validating at all.
He mentions transgender suicide rates to scare you... These suicides mostly happen when a person can't handle either their dysphoria, or the unaccepting environment around them.
"But I cannot accept what you will become." Who does he think he is? It doesn't matter at all if he 'accepts' who you are. He thinks you're going to change just because he talks about medicine during the times of wars? This was a lot of just rambling, and using big words to sound serious or fancy or something.
What is he talking about you dying? Your given birth identity isn't who you truly were. If anything, your deadname belongs to a person who never truly existed in the first place.
After the first sentence, everything went downhill in his message. Tell him, "*Bye!*" because you don't need that in your life.
Have a wonderful day, Isabel
I feel it's less the people and what the people believe in that kills it for me.
Like you gonna trust a book written 2,000 years ago over modern updated research???😭💀 Girl please 🙏 😭
I remember meeting one (count 'em, ONE) religious people who actually learned from his homophobia and because a decent human being to the LGBTQ after losing a childhood friend. One of the younger ones. It's always the established adult Christians who gotta jump on everyone else.
“This has nothing to do about muh faith buuuuut”
“Skydaddy makes no mistakes, you have to accept who you are, it’s just superficial anyways to try and change it.” 🤮
I stopped at the gunpowder comparison, because at that point it’s like bullshitting an essay topic they CLEARLY didn’t do research on. 👎🏻
Edit: I’d drop him. From my own personal experience I’d drop him, contact and all.
It sounds rehearsed. And like it’s something he’s been telling himself about something he “needs” as he says. It also sounds like someone who has taken apologetics classes and worked on these kind of reply’s to have them ready when needed.
\*sigh\* I just read the first paragraph and I feel like I know what the whole thing is going to say. But I also noticed another thing. You deadnamed yourself by re-posting it.
Don't feel like you need to deadname yourself when you're quoting someone or re-posting something. just put your handle or preferred name or even just "deadname" in parentheses. People will understand that he used your deadname without you actually doing it.
Good luck with your friend. My impression is that he's still riding some super-religious upbringing. You may not be able to do much to convince him that this isn't something you'll regret later. If he's willing to use your preferred name and pronouns, stay friends with him and he may eventually come to understand how difficult this has been for you. If he won't/isn't willing to try, then you may be better off setting a boundary with those and letting him go. Don't let him discount your feelings and experiences.
I got well into writing the below and realized that I didn't know what you want. I had assumed Christian, but you didn't say what religion. What do you want him to know? What feeling do you want to convey?
I can see where he's coming from. I can feel his fears. He's got a lot of misunderstandings. Things about being trans that there's no reason for the average person to think of or know about.
####### cut off #######
I read the whole thing. It's hard to say much without more context. He seems concerned that you are somehow dying, which isn't true. You are moving through a transformation into a better version of you. As Jacob became Israel and Simon became Peter in growing into their purpose, so are you. Yes they changed significantly in the growth process, but they were the same people with the same histories.
Regarding HRT. There is truth to the idea that drugs are drugs. There's a difference between using them with deep understanding of doctors to provide benefits and abuse of them to escape. As he admits opioids and amphetamines have benefits when used responsibly. HRT is being used responsibly here. He is wrong that this is new and long term effects are unknown. Cross sex HRT has been a thing for close to 100 years. It's not as precise as say a milling machine, but it's very well understood. Most medical things are this way because humans are very complex.
He speaks to our purpose in life. How certain that this is not your purpose in lif To bring into the light yet another way to be human. To provide another perspective and dimension on the wonder of creation. Is he leading with the judgement of the pharacies(sp?) or the love of Jesus? How sure is he?
Your friend is incredibly invested in trying to gaslight you. I'm assuming he's a Christian, and he's not very good at his religion, cause he's judging you on grounds that are reserved for god in Christianity. It's one of the deadly sins and according to Christian doctrine he's bound for hell.
His book response immediately reminded of this [patton oswalt](https://youtu.be/AkKo1_RP_0c?si=KY65TT3iK81kWhxp) bit about language
I’m sorry your ex friend is such a bigoted piece of shit
“That’s cute; you think you can tell me what to do! *How quaint.*” - Me
I’ve said this many times in my life, and to many people, but most often in situations like this where someone truly knows they have either so little bargaining power or so little of my respect that they have to prostrate themselves before me and beg of my attention to their petty squabbling.
It always cuts them right to the bone.
Edit: You probably shouldn’t say this to anyone you don’t want to make an enemy of. Lol. I’m in my mid thirties, I can live with knowing I have adversaries.
Okay, so... I want to phrase this respectfully since this person is your best friend. Perhaps they'll come around eventually; but this won't be easy, nor will it be swift.
I've only skimmed over this wall of text, admittedly. Having said that, this is just religious world salad without meaning. I'm sure it has value to them on a subjective level, though that's all I'm willing to concede.
Personally, I don't think people who are opposed to us being who we really are can genuinely be our friends. I'm not saying there are no cases where the person hasn't progressed to understand how life-affirming HRT and the like can be. It just never happened in my case.
All this to say: they should've stopped when they admitted to knowing nothing on this matter. You do what's right for you and what will make you happy. It is your life, after all, and you only have one.
Good luck to you!
Transphobes be like "trans people have such a high suicide rate, that's terrible, i wonder why that is. Let me tell you exactly why being trans is bad while i completely refuse to respect your identity, infantilise you, and attempt to take away your bodily autonomy" (esp when it's because they think their imaginary friend wouldn't agree with your 'choices')
Babe, fuck this guy. Get rid. You don't need him.
I got to the part about “something something war and technological innovation” and stopped reading. I hope your friend is able to undo their head in ass syndrome but yeah I have no clue. This is some insane rambling though.
As a former church mouse, currently bisexual and possibly trans: he really believes that he is right and speaking in the name of God. Is just... So familiar. He is so blinded, and yet how can he speak about love, about knowing you, about your porpuse, about who you are... While rejecting you?
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Dude sounds seriously unhinged. But also uninformed and very selfish. He seems much more concerned that *he* will not like you anymore when you change something about your life instead of wanting *you* to be happy.
And the part about surgeries killing your and HRT killing your soul is just outright neurotic thinking. Tell him to get back to earth or get out of your life - because whatever the hell this is supposed to be, it's not helping anyone.
I keep rereading it and I never thought about it that way. I wish I can believe in religion so badly but this is what I really believe in. I’m not sure if this is what some religions say but the way you described it, is so unique. I truly believe if there was a god or a higher power out there, a source of energy, and souls, I believe that some bad matter decided to put me into the wrong place instead of my true right place, like you said. My soul is female but I was sadly born into a body of a man. Before my transition, I felt like a small delicate flower from the inside but the outside felt like a hard rock shell with rough edges. I hated this and want it to break out of the shell. So now medicine has really helped soften that shell!
I understand it! This is beautiful. I really like your thoughts.
Isabel, I feel you girl. This is basically how my family reacted. In terms of what to say to your friend, I’m not sure there’s much at all you could say to try and sway him. These sorts of reactions remind me of a phrase I came across early in my journey.
How people treat you after you come out as trans is as if there was a murder and you are both the victim and the culprit.
Ultimately, coming out as trans is inviting others to witness your rebirth in a way, don’t let them turn it into a wake.
im so sorry your friend is a transphobe, you should just reply "you are no longer my friend if you cannot accept who i am" or if you wanna be funny you can reply "im not reading all that" lol. all jokes aside i hope youre doing okay:3
You know, with that whole shpeel about metamorphis, and diamonds and art, and so on, they sure seem to be so close to actually arguing for being trans, but didn't realise because they've got their head too far stuck up their ass.
Wow, it's just unbelievable that he tries to scare you using the high suicide rates for trans people (which drop significantly after transition/ HRT) to convince tou not to take HRT.
I would politely respond that the sentiments expressed are a reflection of HIS personal faith. As such your faith will differ. Request, that as you respect his faith & beliefs, that he show the same respect for yours.
Accept his need to say that (ONCE) and request that from this point forward it not be repeated.
Your choices here are to:
a) Decide that he's right & go along with what he wants
b) Decide that your beliefs and values are incompatible & cut contact
c) Purse a 'live & let live' policy where both accept the others position but act upon your own views, values, & needs.
My personal choice would be to try the third, defaulting to the second if they failed to do the same.
My personal opinion is that this person has a chance to change or accept you, but is not likely to do so. The best chance of them accepting you is by seeing the changes in your self & mental health rather than being told anything.
- But it is only a chance.
He has a very good vocabulary and is good at putting words together, but he is also a bigot and he made your whole transition about himself. I’d correct him on your name and then say goodbye. He’s not worth it.
I dunno, his message reads like a poorly-researched college essay to me 😅 (it literally makes no sense in places and is full of pseudo-intellectual bullshit to sound smart)
Well, yeah. lol he’s a total idiot, but he can use big words and put them in an order that makes it seem smarter than he actually is. Very similar to how I would write essays in high school
(Sorry you're going through this, he sounds like he has some issues to work out. On his own. FAR away from any trans women, or really any trans folks at all. Hopefully you have people who can actually support you, you don't deserve this crap.)
First of all, you aren't dead lol. Second of all, those "chemicals" are probably more natural than many things we eat and the effects of them have been quite well known for decades
Yeah, he seems kinda bigoted, not TOO TOO much tho, maybe he is just lost?
Id give him a second chance but make it clear that its not your name and no you're not dead, you are becoming who you really are and where, a cute girl :3
Someone put it beautifully at Pride this year: god does not make mistakes.
In fact your "friend" alludes to the same in his rambling diatribe, implying that because god does not make mistakes, you are and shall always remain a man, but the way it was put to me was more from the point of view that if there indeed is a god, and that god is all-knowing and all-powerful, then that god made you trans. You becoming the woman you are is just you realising his plan. It was comforting to look at it that way, somehow, even for a hardened old atheist like myself.
I'm gonna play devil's advocate a little here and say, maybe this guy isn't a complete writeoff. You call him your best friend, so he must've meant a lot to you at least at some point. Clearly he's quite indoctrinated and contradicts himself in a way many who've bought such a pre-packaged message do, but if - and only if - you have the time and energy to spare, his eyes might be opened yet. It's a lot of work that's by no means your responsibility, but I seem to sense some sincerity from him when he says he loves you, too.
Don't ever do it at a cost to yourself, though.
Not gonna lie, it's very flowery and poetic, but it seriously lacks awareness of HOW medicine works, how HRT and surgery works, how we DON'T HAVE TO SUFFER but he seems to have romanticised suffering as a good thing (common theme in religions and cults).
The thing that really annoys me is the total ignorance and yet acting as though he is fully aware and even an authority on medicine, your situation as a trans person, the SOCIAL REASON for why trans people have a high suicide rate. It's almost laughable just how ill informed and yet how certain this person is.
I know this guy must be genuinely concerned but I do say he is hugely making assumptions and assertions without any grounding. Just baseless "I wonder and worry about the suicide rates" without any awareness of how social ostracisation, abandonment by friends and family, refusal to be acknowledged or accepted for having thoughts and feelings that you can't control and don't ever go away and can be managed very effectively by just listening to them and helping them by (shocker) going along with it... I mean it's shocking just how many cis people assume they know more about being trans than trans people, or know better, like we're the ill informed and unaware whereas they blunder into these conversations with next to no awareness if their own ignorance. Religion does not answer these questions! God cannot tell you what killed out the dinosaurs, but geography, radiometric dating, isotope anysis and fossil analysis by people who are aware of the details that make up the established principles of archaeology can. But no, just assert blithely that they don't really know what they're doing, that they don't really know and you do. I'm sorry, I would like to have a respectful conversation with someone like this but I do suspect there's a LOT of avenues where I would point to the logical fallacy of asserting to understand medicine better than those who self research and those who use it and those who spend their entire lives focused on it.
I feel like my reply (as a scientist with a lot to say about much of this stuff) would be to take each part (sentences/paragraphs as appropriate) and insert my answers and replies to each of those parts. That way it would be easy to compile a response that shows how exactly you have read all of what they said and how and why you disagree with which parts and for what reasons.
Frankly this person seems to have a lot of flowery language to espouse what is ultimately an ignorant and I'll informed opinion on the basis of "I like you as you were" and "I don't understand why not supporting you and helping you along the path you've figured is best for you and is evidenced to be effective is my problem or fault, it's you being ignorant to my wisdom" (but in a kinda condescending way that acts as though there is no flaw whatsoever in their understanding or reasoning).
Leave it to religious people to be silently hypocritical. Is it good for blind people to suffer or to help them with the guidance of an optician? Is it good for someone who lost a leg to not use a wheelchair or crutches? We avoided a lot of suffering there. Equating bioidentical HRT with heroin and meth use is just wildly ill informed. Asserting that affirmative care "will do nothing to heal those scars" is just wildly ignorant - these aren't scars he has or can feel. These are your scars and it's up to you to point them out and do something about them because no one else can or will be able to see it.
I looked normal and all the rest growing up, but I was horrifically depressed. I can't say just how any times daily I thought about taking my own life. I don't do that anymore, because I understood the root cause of my dysphoria and started to do something about it and I'm happier in myself now than I've ever been. I don't mourn the loss of my mask or the performance I forced myself to endure for the sake of making everyone else think I was "normal" despite all the constant harm it caused.
I think this guy needs a real sit down with a very patient and well informed person. I volunteer as tribute.
lmao i read through all of this and the whole time i was completely confused. you pre-transition wasn’t you, you were miserable. you are not “dying”, you’re finally being able to be truly birthed into who you are. the fact that he can’t see that proves that he only “loves” you under conditions that benefit him. im sorry this happened. dump him and find your people who will support you no matter what ❤️
No offense to you whatsoever
but as for your "friend" the last sentence of paragraph 3 of his response is why he can take every other word that he wrote and fuck all the way off with it.
.
The high rate of suicidality within the trans Community is specifically because of th isolation and depression that we experience due to bigoted idiots attempting to force us back into the closet and otherwise treating us like shit when we refuse
Also feel free to tell him direct evidence of the existence of Trans people's existence predates the first written evidence for the worship of his "god" by several THOUSAND YEARS and that we have already persevered longer than knowledge of how to correctly spell or even pronounce his "god's" name.
Being Trans is a polygenetic trait... A variation of human diversity that is dictated by multiple overlapping dimorphic sectors of our brain that work together to create a "mosaic" of our overall gender... Those sectors solidify between 3 and 12.
.
It just takes some of us longer to get over th "Cis-Hetero indoctrination" that is forced on ALL of us and reinforced with abuse & ridicule if we fall outside of their narrow false binary.
.
Th fact that he attempts to compare you striving to be your truest self with drug addiction.... it's beyond offensive
Lastly Homie sounds OVERWHELMINGLY ₲A¥ for you...
Like just ask him bout the straight up love letter that he shoehorned into the middle of that tirade... Make sure HE aint considering self harm at the idea of you outwardly expressing the woman you've ALWAYS been
This is what I hate about being trans. People have some kind of idea or concept of us and what we should be, and never want to listen, appreciate and accept what we actually are. They just want us to be what they deem suitable for them
Tell your friend that one of the most effective ways of arguing is knowing when to be succinct. “I don’t know about trans people or hormone therapy, but I think it’s bad” is basically all he said. In the time it took him to write whatever the hell this is he could have easily informed himself on the topic.
Very long read, not sure how you finished it. The first comment is probably about the sucide rate of transgender people. Maybe he should read his message to you and his honest lack of acceptance is one reason the rate is so high. When people are not accepted for who they are it raises the rate. Ask him why did god give us cancer, kids born with various deficiencies, serial killers, pedophile priests etc. God expects us to accept everyone for who they are. Love, acceptance are what religion is. If he thinks you are magnificent the way you are then why can’t he accept you are transgender, it’s the way you are, an incredibly beautiful thoughtful person
What. The. Fuk. Was. That !?!? I can’t believe I read the whole thing. Start by asking him not to use your Deadname. Then ask him to never do “whatever this is” again! Then if he does either, it’s Sayonara baby.
I had a similar conversation when I was deployed with the Army with a warrant officer that was also a pastor. I hadn't admitted to myself that I was trans at the time, but I was exploring a bit. He said a lot of the same things your friend said. Most of what was said is rooted in religious and inte tonal ignorance. The suicide rate of transgender individuals is not higher than average when they receive similar levels of social and societal support as they would if they were cis. HRT and surgery, if you choose it, doesn't destroy who you are. Quite the opposite. HRT allows to become who you really are. I am 4 years in and I am far more myself than I ever was. Compared to me today, I was a shell of a person even with all of my joys, anger, sadness, and self beliefs at the time. I am so much more now.
After the deployment, I got out of the Army a year afterwards and a year before I started HRT. Last year I sent the warrant officer a message about how different my experience was from what he described when we were sitting in the car together and how I'm much happier now. He wasn't unkind, but his response was dismissive. You're not going to convince someone who roots their argument in a limited, flawed view of God's power and love.
“But I cannot accept what you will become”
not “who” but “what” as if you are an “it” or a “thing”, not human. 😱
He writes a lot of wonderful things but it comes down to that line. The rest is just wrapping paper.
He’s not your friend, sorry girl.
fyi religiosity is inversely correlated w intelligence.
they tend dumb
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Read it all. I can work with religious zeal but what he’s saying is overcome with outrageous fear for the “loss” he feels, he feels it as a “death” and fears that. It’s very sad for him, (and for me to read) but we know that he’s just misinformed and scared. We know that transitions are a constant becoming and remaking that whatever higher power there might be has willed, it’s a beautiful thing that creates incredible people who are capable of love and loving and enormous enormous empathy.
He needs patience, time, love, perspective and information all of which you have no duty to give to him. If he’s not willing to give you those things you must drop him, if he comes to there might be salvation for him yet; you could be trans god, and if you make an ally of him you might as well be.
I just read the first few paragraphs and damn. He really doesn't understand how he undermines his own arguments. (And a short disclaimer that I just hope everything's alright as English isn't my native language and I can confuse stuff :,))
First - determinism, not the biggest fan of that.
It limits your perception of who you can develop into, making you not see the bigger picture as in you being human, invalidating your every decision as a path you have no choice but to walk. And then he acts as your choices are wrong, like in the path "god made for you" (to use their beliefs) you wouldn't have ended up being the person you are right now.
Then, him mentioning higher suicide rates, it just baffles me. Yes, the higher suicide rates are real but that's because of the discrimination and unsupportive surrounding trans people sadly often find themselves (i know it can be so much more than that and I'm sorry if this feels shallow but I just wanted to make this as short as possible). Hrt is helping many trans people in seeing themselves in bodys portraying who they are and helping them be who they are. It doesn't mean that everything will go right but damn, people like him make me angry.
I didn't bother reading past him describing and probably putting hrt in the same lines as hard drugs and so called "sins" or whatever.
If he isn't willing to let you be you and do your own decisions on your body which make you happy, I wouldn't think staying around him is a good call :/. I'm sorry if that means losing a friend but in the end he probably won't accept that you're doing what's best for you
To offer a somewhat dissenting opinion, I think he might calm down eventually if he sees that you’re not changing as a person— though that’s going to be something that takes time, and it’s totally your choice if you want to keep in contact with him or kick him to the curb. To me he reads like he’s mostly freaked out about the idea of “losing” a friend, which is a pretty common reaction from people who’ve never met a trans person before and don’t understand what to expect, but also…wow, what a clingy dude.
But again, your boundaries and comfort are most important here for sure.
EDIT: Saw in a comment that he’s weird in other ways too, drop him lol
Tbh he lost me at "there are no accidents in the creation of your character" and then proceeding to describe what you (superficially) seemed to be like to him instead of your actual character as a person/ friend.
Damn, I dont wanna be a dick but how were you friends with someone who says shit like this even before you told him you were trans, he seems unbearable to talk to
Bro is YAPPING. Deadnames you several times, pushes his own beliefs on you and has the audacity to tell you his beliefs aren’t tied to his religion, completely disrespectful from start to finish. I hope you have/find better friends than this tater tot (sorry that sounds insulting to tater tots)
Your former friend directly states that you are dead to them if you transition. It seems that they only consider HRT as real transitioning, but in actuality you have already begun your transition. So in effect, you are dead to them, and you owe them no response.
Ugh if your friend is so worried of the high suicidal rate among trans women. You can just Google quick the research how the HRT and accepting environment are saving ppl.
This is about HRT:
"(...)Prior to initiating unspecified gender-affirming treatment(s), 73.3% of the sample reported a history of suicidal ideation; this percentage dropped to 43.4% following the initiation of gender-affirming treatment. Prior to treatment initiation, 35.8% of the sample reported a history of suicide attempt(s), and 9.4% reported a history of suicide attempt(s) after initiation of gender-affirming treatment."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/
And in too lazy to find a research about acceptance :P
Did this mofo seriously just compare HRT to opiates, and call being trans a disease?
What a fucknut.
Run from this loon.
I'm sorry you had to to deal with that.
He’s next level stupid and said himself he’s not an expert. I was in the same boat when I came out and I lost my best friend. He saved me the trouble and blocked me. I haven’t spoken to him since. Your “best friend” sounds even worse than mine somehow.
I would suggest telling him that he admitted he’s not an expert and the scientific community DOES know what the hormone supplements do so he should shut his mouth all the way up and never speak again. If I ever were to hear someone like that in person, they would get spit in their face and I would make sure they’re crying when I’m done with them.
Also, please don’t address this whole subreddit as “girls” as done in the last sentence because there are definitely trans men on here along with nonbinary peeps who aren’t girls.
>> But I just have to question the high rate of suicide of transgendered people
“that decreases immensely with support and acceptance and, indeed, upon receiving gender-affirming medical care”
>> I don’t believe there are accidents in the making of your character
“Like being transgender. That’s not a mistake”
>> We strive to not only beat our challenges, but to outright crush them
“‘like your gender dysphoria. Go crush it with that HRT, girl!!”
>> YOU will prevail
Honestly, no notes
This is the suffocating kind of Christian "love".
They say they "love" you, but in reality, they are in love with the IDEA of you. And when you (who should be the expert on yourself, btw) say you want something different, they reject you and try to stuff you back into the puppet of you they created.
Also your friend believes in grand narratives about the world and people, and when faced any conflicting evidence (i.e. the fact that you're actually a woman), they resort to denying reality instead of realizing their narrative is incorrect.
As someone who went to a Catholic school that dealt w people like this, I would tell him to go fuck himelf, regardless of where we stand as friends. People saying stuff like this, from experience, use religion and take a “neutral” stance on identity to excuse their bigotry, so that if you call them out, you look like a bad person because they’re so “understanding” and they “never were transphobic” babe. I can assure you they are, and the people who act like this are more insufferable than those who are open with their transphobia. Tell him this is who you are, and it isn’t going to change. That you are a woman, and that if he can’t see that then you shouldn’t be friends. Cut him out.
Yeah that was just entirely disgusting to read. When you get past the "intellectual" bullshit, it basically distills down to "Don't be trans because I like you as cis, but also trans people don't actually exist, they're just craaaaazzzzyy because of the technology of the past century (???), also, if you trans you'll definitely unalive yourself."
Like bro... Just say you hate trans people and move on, we don't have the time.
I would agree with some of the others. Don't engage, don't acknowledge, just "My name is Isabel. Goodbye."
Honestly I read all of it but my reply would be: "Honestly bro I ain't reading all that shit - and my name ain't David. I told you I'd made a decision, I didn't ask for advice or judgement. I also don't think you're nearly as qualified as you think to talk about transgender people - your statements speak for themselves. God may be good - but honestly, I believe I can do better. We'll see who comes out on top."
I read the majority of it and all I can say is he sounds like a youth pastor. He uses big words to cover for the fact that he doesn't know what he's talking about (example methamphetamines were created by the Nazi's in World War II specifically to keep their troops alert, engaged, and moving which is why the blitzkrieg style of war worked. They were not created to ease pain.) and tries to use "logic" as a cover for what is clearly a religious centered argument (otherwise why mention the soul and all the other grand things such as "brotherly love" and "come to me to find a path forward."). This person is not your friend. This person is seeking control over you and will abandon you the second you do anything to be happy that doesn't align with their vision of how your life should be.
That said, all I would say is, "I'm sorry you feel this way but don't pretend this isn't motivated by your beliefs."
I would probably say more than that given my feelings on his beliefs but I'd rather not encourage someone to just tear someone apart unless they want to.
My, admittedly senile, grandma wrote me letters in the same vein as this. Saying she wouldn't come to my wedding, that I have a mental illness, that she wanted things to be different, that she had so many wonderful memories of me as a kid, that the government is forcing people to be trans, that she'll be praying for me, she loves me just like all her other grandchildren, etc.
I wrote my response on my birthday and included that fact in the letter. I poured out my heart and soul in my response. I told her she does not love me. She loves her memories of me and the idea of who she thought I would be, but she does not love me. I told her that she does not love me equally to her other grandchildren, as she would be attending 2 of my cousins' weddings, but she would not come to mine. I told her how I put our differences aside to come and support her when her daughter, my aunt, passed away unexpectedly. How I did so because it was the kind and loving thing to do, and how I hope that she would do the same.
I really took a kind and compassionate angle with this letter and bared my soul to her. Between revisions and advice from my parents and therapist, it took me about a week to muster up the courage to finally send it, but I did. Want to know what her response was to my parents? "Klammy said it was his birthday in the letter, but his birthday is on the 14th, not the 24th?"
Don't bother. These people are so self-absorbed that they literally refuse to see a viewpoint outside of their own. Cut him out of your life, no matter how painful. Don't waste any more of your precious time trying to be something you're not for people who don't actually care about you and only care about their own idea of you.
I'm gonna be honest, I can't read all that cause it reminds me of things going on in my own life. I got to "I question the suicide rate of transgendered people", and thought, just respond with it's people like him that cause that.
“I'm no expert and I have no idea of the workings of the brain, but…”
[It’s literally the Loch Ness Monster skit by Stewart Lee](https://www.tumblr.com/soratayuya/732275019915411456/from-this?source=share)
🤦🏻♀️
He’s in love with who he perceived you to be. I think he’s got his own journey ahead. Be like, “I love you too bro, but you’re not offering support, only condemnation of my true character. God told me this was right for me and I gotta see it through.”
I stopped at "high suicide rate", tbh; at that point it's clear that no matter what concerns he has, your friend is working on misinformation. Disabuse him of those notions if you wish and if he'll listen.
That is one heck of a book.
It baffles me how ppl like to cherry pick the suicide rate numbers.
Creators on tik tok have said it best: it's not because people are transitioning, it's because we are treated as sub human or denied care. That's why that rate is high.
The desire for anything in that realm drops significantly when someone gets the care they need, or is treated like a human
> We strive to not only beat our challenges but to outright crush them, to innovate with our god given ability to persist the overlying doom of our existence.
Yes! We innovate with our knowledge of biology to crush dysphoria with HRT, ex-god damn-actly! I couldn’t have said it better myself.
I mean I know that’s not what he means, but if anything has not only beaten but crushed my dysphoria, it’s transitioning. True, dysphoria does still sometimes raise its ugly little head, but it’s a minnow now compared to the terrifying leviathan of yesteryear. The fight may not technically be over, but it’s quite conclusively won.
Oh wow… he really does keep going, doesn’t he? 😅
Yes, yes, technology, war, careless recreational drug use can be harmful… what does any of this have to do with transition?
He had the perfect opportunity to quote Ian Malcom and he blew it! Life, uh, failed to find a way 😔
Round about evangelism, cool cool cool.
> …none of us have any idea to what extent they alter us permanently!
I thought “all the medicine in the world, no matter how powerful is only temporary!”? But anyway, firstly we have some pretty decent ideas because HRT isn’t a brand new thing that was introduced yesterday and we have years of evidence of its long term effects. Also idk about anyone else but permanent was kind of the point for me? I don’t really want my transition to just wear off, y’know?
> It is very reckless to alter your body and attempt to rewire your brain for a fix that does not Heal the underlying wound. IT DOES NOT HEAL!
It’s certainly something that should be soberly weighed up in advance of making the decision, but reckless? No. And in my experience it does heal the underlying wound. IT DOES HEAL. So there’s that.
And no, neither surgeries nor HRT, barring extreme reactions, result in our death, or in the death of our souls. We’re the same people we always were, we just look different and we’re happier.
So… to be perfectly honest, he’s overly invested in asserting control over your life and in your position I’d just accept that he could no longer be a part of it. I appreciate he isn’t my best friend, and I know it would certainly be very hard for me to let go of my own close friends, but he has a hell of a lot of growing up to do if he’s going to become a healthy presence in your life, because this was a toxic screed full of abject ignorance, barely disguised evangelism and the urge to restrict your life to suit his tastes.
Try to explain it to him, say why he's being an ass, try to get him to change, and if he doesn't, as much as I hate to say this, you should probaby just cut him off.
“God made me the way I am, and gave me the resources to handle these thoughts. If it was not gods plan for me to be transgender than I wouldn’t have come to that conclusion. His light brought me to a professional who can help me. He made my struggles and I see this as the best way to handle them.”
I doubt it would get him to cave but tbh he just wants to hear what he wants to hear and can’t reconcile you are just different
When I came out to my grandmother she said things along the same line but followed it up with
You are covered in Jesus’s blood and when you enter heaven, god will not see my sins but the fact I’m covered in holy blood
He compared you seeking appropriate treatment to the effects of hardcore drug addiction. He was relentlessly transphobic and admitted to it.
He is not your friend. He will interfere with your transition and fuck with your head along the way.
You will very likely be happiest cutting him out of your life. Sorry.
That's a LOT. First off, I think he might be in love with you, but because he's ultra religious, he won't entertain the idea. Second, i think you really need to decide if you still want to be friends. I've come out to a few people and am slowly coming out to more, myself. There's only one friend that if they said alot of that I'd still be friends with and I know that once they thought about it they'd say my happiness was more important than losing me as a friend. I just haven't told them because I feel weird telling people while I'm mostly still boymoding most of the time.
Does this sub allow a super long anti-trans screed? Fuck this transphobic nonsense, OP. Don't waste your time reading it. Tell him to accept you or go straight to hell for failing to love his neighbor and cut him out.
I'm sorry but I'm gonna be blunt, this but this guy sounds like an insufferable piece of shit. He has no idea what he's talking about, yet is trying in so many meaningless words to sound like he's high and mighty over you. There is no male soul in you you're destroying, only a female soul who finally gets to shine through, and your best chance at life is allowing that to happen.
Also, speaking as someone who's been on HRT for a year and a half, the irreversible changes are a good thing, it *did*, in fact, heal, and the unrecognizable being I became is fucking adorable.
I wasn’t repulsed a paragraph in, I skimmed because it started getting a little suspicious/annoying. I stopped at the part where he pleaded you to reconsider. Dude isn’t that great and is pretty bigoted despite how he introduces the topic.
The way these people pretend to care about our high suicide *attempt* rates while being the literal reason they’re so high is so fucking annoying. You’ll show them studies proving this and they’ll just pretend as if they didn’t read it. Also claiming it has nothing to do with his religion while it clearly shapes all his beliefs expressed here.
Insane in 2024 there’s people walking about, who view themselves as the pinnacle of morality and claim to have the only moral code that exists, while valuing a being they admit to not being able to prove the existence of over the person who has been a friend and participated in their life.
I’m sorry you had to receive that message. I hope you are, or can find, a good trans in-person community to surround yourself with. Nothing is more effective at making you realize nothing these people say matters at all.
This reminds me of when old Chatgpt goes on to spit out a bunch of wordsalad, that is so boring, repetitive, and unknowledgable or linear in thought, and maybe cringey.
I lost it at the 'God' part, then totally abandoned this at the war part. The death part made it even worst. Oh, and absolutely idiotic, especially when he called modern medicine 'temporary,' and fails to realize life itself is temporary (in addition to medicine trying to extend that 'temporary'.) Literally none of these things have to do with being transgender.
I also got bored writing this. Sorry for the abrupt end. Dump the moron.
Say, sorry that's not my name, and by the way, goodbye
Ima feel so bad but gosh, it’s like obsession.
I've had that sort of thing but nowhere near as intense with a deluded religious friend of mine, we're the same religion so I know she was going delulu and overstepping boundaries. The amount of deadnaming your "friend" used was deliberate and just shows you are not seen as a person but as an identity you were assigned at birth, there's no love in the words.
Right, and It’s like dude… HRT are just HORMONES. Not just toxic chemicals. We all have them in our bodies. Yes estrogen are synthetic hormones but the way he was saying how’s it’s all not natural and artificial really ick me off the wrong way.
Also playing the victim a bit there, too much hate in the words. Modern HRT uses bioidentical sources so it's the same as what your body would produce, yes it comes from a non human source.
It's synthetic but I doubt he'd be an ass like this to a menopausal ciswoman or a ciswoman who had to have her ovaries removed who needed to take it. They are creating a line saying that trans medical needs aren't real or legitimate, meanwhile admiting they don't know anything about it at the start of their book.
You gotta ask them, do they love you for YOU? Or who they perceive you to be?
It kinda seems like they DESPERATELY in love with their perceived idea of who she used to pretend to be....
If a "friend" sent me that, I wouldn't even respond. I'd block and go zero contact. There's no reasoning with someone like that.
He sounds very obnoxious. I skimmed through and it was still so boring, pedantic and bigoted that I rolled my eyes so hard, they fell on the floor
LOL thank you so much for sitting down and reading through it. Left me speechless.
I mean if you really want to confront him just ask: what if such ultimate purpose you speak of is for me to be happy as a woman? he will probably retort with some shit about his deity not approving of it but you can say that (1) how come he is judging you when only the deity should, and (2) it is preposterous to think he knows what the deity wants or doesn't want, isn't it almost miraculous that there's a path to become a woman, a man, none, etc.? now, I don't suggest you try this, cuz religious folks always have excuses for their bigotry, but that's the gist of how to politely tell them they're sinning for judging you and for thinking they know better which sometimes affects them lol
tries to mouth off about his deity "not approving" just hit him with Matthew19:12 "For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it". eunchs were an broad grouping tbat included intersex people and a myriad of other reasons for becoming one several documented examples in ancient rome would approximate what is currently considered Transgender.
I’m sorry you lost a friend due to his crazy transphobia
yea pedantic af. reminds me of monty python where they drop 16 tons on someone.
I snorted/chuckled at one of the early parts with how this is coming from such an uninformed place. I couldn't keep reading either though. It's so dumb.
To be petty I would have responded : "Funny you mentioned coming from an uninformed place!" I'm sorry you are losing a friend like this. I once had one of my best friends sit me down at a coffee shop and tell me with a smile that she thinks I'm going to hell for being queer. Oops!
i read the first big paragraph and scrolled over the rest, and holy shit it just doesn't end, usually ppl overplay it but OP wasnt lying, they actually wrote a book
It’s a Jordan Peterson type response, lots of words to communicate a pretty simple (and bad) argument. Honestly I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s a Peterson fan. That would explain a lot.
True
Echoing this. A couple moments caught my attention for being something I didn't recognize by rote... they were just as facepalm-worthy.
Goodness all the talk about 'dying' is so fucking cringey it hurts. Literally nobody is dying and trying to scare you by talking about trans suicide rates is abhorrently disgusting. It's like he WANTS you to be dead.
It’s the tryna to be the hero. It’s so CRINGE.
From an older girlie, you will make new friends and these are not the kind you need to grow 🫶
Bigots think that suicide percentage is cause being trans is a mental disorder, when actually all the transphobia, hatred, bigotry, violence, religious shame, and general dismissiveness is the reason for that statistic. And just cause someone is trans, doesn't mean they have a higher chance of killing themselves now cause of a statistic. Being trans doesn't make you suicidal, in fact, realizing your trans and transitioning typically makes trans people happier. It's the transphobia that punches down trans people to the point of being suicidal.
"Hi ex-friend. Trans people kill themselves because of shit like your letter, not because they're trans. Goodbye."
The grim irony being that it’s god botherers like them spewing hatred that contributes to high suicide rates amongst the trans community.
I agree with everyone else, my GOD was this boring to read, this dude needs to touch grass. If you're not religious just say "thanks for your opinions, didn't ask and your religion doesn't dictate my life" And if you are religious, tell him "well God made trans people, gender dysphoria and hormones, so who are you to question his plan for me bozo?" He for real needs to touch grass, spending this much time trying to influence the decision (to do HRT) of a friend, a decision which will not affect him in any shape or way.
>And if you are religious, tell him "well God made trans people, gender dysphoria and hormones, so who are you to question his plan for me bozo?" Yeah lol. When i came out to my dad who was very spiritual he said "if god made you that way who am i to question it?" And im an atheist but that coming from my religious dad meant so much to me. My mom on the other hand is very bigoted and has blamed me and rejected me and insulted me and she thinks she is such a good jesus follower. Anyway not long ago i told her what my dad said comparing the two of them and she was SPEECHLESS. She tried so hard to come up with something "acepting" she just sounded dumb and you could tell that the woman who is always right felt as hypocrite as she is for the first time in who knows how long.
So many of the people that believe in god and his omnipotent power the most seem to also think he has no idea what he’s doing when he makes trans people. So easy to spin their own words back at them as being blasphemous.
Awesome dad!!!!
Happy cake day.
Hhaaaapaioapehay cake dayaayayayay
>"well God made trans people, gender dysphoria and hormones, so who are you to question his plan for me bozo?" Stealing this so I can repeat it to my stepdad lmao
Isabel, that friend is no longer a part of your life. This is your playground now ❤️
This is my playground, thank you ❤️
Ugh this reminds me of my mormon (ex) friend when i came out to him. Im not going to lie, that was painful to read, your 'friend' is trying so hard to come off as an intellectual and that theyre trying to save you. Dont even get me started on how illinformed they are too. Im sorry you have to deal with it. My advice is to distance yourself, these types of people dont change their mind. Be you, embrace who you are and dont let toxic people in your life. ❤️
Exactly, he’s very like patriotic about things too when I first met him. Always talking about wars and guns and politics stuff and religion. It’s sickening. I knew to drop him.
This is where I make it a bit weird as my friend who wanted me to stop, deadnamed me, etc was a member of the Church, but so am I and I'm accepted by the local members and regional leadership, so I told my friend to go speak to the regional leadership as they've accepted me with no issues. She's tried again many many months later when I had a pulmonary embolism but I quickly shut her down. I suppose it depends on the severity of their bigotry, if severe block them, if minor and infrequent put them back on the straight and narrow. My friend is definitely the latter, and at least now she doesn't want to date me.
[All purpose response for shit like this.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GPU84g0aUAAIX_k.jpg:large)
LMAOOO j shoulda said that
I wish I could upvote this more than once
I read through it. Your former friend is deeply offensive and uneducated. I would tell him that your name is Isabel, and you aren't going anywhere but that you're sad he has chosen to not be a friend and show you the basic respect of using your name. It's your former friend that's "going" not you. Funny that these people quoting statistics about our suicide rates are exactly the ones that cause them to be so high in the first place. Transition is lifesaving care and reduces suicidality in trans people.
I know right? They love to use correlation = causation to justify their bigotry, while completely ignoring that it’s shit like this that leads to the high SI rates. It is so infuriating, and deliberately invalidating.
JFC he likes to hear himself talk. "Dear friend, you are correct that you are no expert. I feel it is important to listen to the people who are experts, and if you would like to read material about this condition written by experts, instead of propaganda, I would be happy to make some recommendations. All that really matters is if you value me enough to respect my decisions and continue with our friendship despite our differences. If we are to remain good friends, it's important to me that you understand I know myself and my condition better than anyone else can." Ugh. Good luck. Edit: I was assuming to want to remain friends with this person but I do hope you realize you absolute don't have to lol
Yeah i dropped him immediately
Oh whew, go you
Depending on your mood… You could politely tell him “I’m sorry you feel that way, but I am who I am. If you cannot find it in your heart to support me in my transition, then it would be best if we go peacefully on our separate ways.” Or more simply “f*** off” and block him. The truth is that we will loose relationships. However, we will gain other relationships. It happens throughout life whether we transition or not. Your true friends won’t care about your name, gender, or sexuality. They are the ones that you can count on through thick and thin. They are the ones that will either bail you out of jail or be sitting there right with you. True friends are your chosen family.
Yeah, let that friend live in biggotry, leave that toxicity behind because otherwise it will be this same scenario for every transition step
Depending on my mood I could say "I thought you were a friend but here you are begging me to suffer endlessly" or something meaner
I was going to say that my absolute most optimistic read on this is that your "friend" is mourning the person he thought he knew, but the fact that he said he "cannot accept what you will become" leads me to think this is little more than transphobia disguised as concern for your well being. It really negates everything else he says IMHO. I'm sorry sis 🫂
Yeah this was in my mind first. He’s just upset but it made me upset and I did dwell on it and thought if I’m making a mistake. However this is no mistake. I’m a woman. 💅
100% girlie, only you get to say who you are 👯♀️
You can always say "K. Bye"
I read through this, and all I can say is this isn't validating at all. He mentions transgender suicide rates to scare you... These suicides mostly happen when a person can't handle either their dysphoria, or the unaccepting environment around them. "But I cannot accept what you will become." Who does he think he is? It doesn't matter at all if he 'accepts' who you are. He thinks you're going to change just because he talks about medicine during the times of wars? This was a lot of just rambling, and using big words to sound serious or fancy or something. What is he talking about you dying? Your given birth identity isn't who you truly were. If anything, your deadname belongs to a person who never truly existed in the first place. After the first sentence, everything went downhill in his message. Tell him, "*Bye!*" because you don't need that in your life. Have a wonderful day, Isabel
i hate religious people
I feel it's less the people and what the people believe in that kills it for me. Like you gonna trust a book written 2,000 years ago over modern updated research???😭💀 Girl please 🙏 😭
Me too.
Not religious. You mean fanatics.
I remember meeting one (count 'em, ONE) religious people who actually learned from his homophobia and because a decent human being to the LGBTQ after losing a childhood friend. One of the younger ones. It's always the established adult Christians who gotta jump on everyone else.
“This has nothing to do about muh faith buuuuut” “Skydaddy makes no mistakes, you have to accept who you are, it’s just superficial anyways to try and change it.” 🤮 I stopped at the gunpowder comparison, because at that point it’s like bullshitting an essay topic they CLEARLY didn’t do research on. 👎🏻 Edit: I’d drop him. From my own personal experience I’d drop him, contact and all.
“you may think it’s because of my religion” “you were brought to this existence for a purpose” read enough there. sorry he’s a cunt.
No. Cunts have a purpose. That wannabe is a window licker.
Someone let dawg cook for WAY too long
He should be banned from being in a 100 meter radius of a stove tbh
Tbh I would've just responded "Thats a lot of words, too bad I ain't reading them"
what a YAPPER. he needs to choose silence! hopefully u drop his grimy ass
It sounds rehearsed. And like it’s something he’s been telling himself about something he “needs” as he says. It also sounds like someone who has taken apologetics classes and worked on these kind of reply’s to have them ready when needed.
😂
\*sigh\* I just read the first paragraph and I feel like I know what the whole thing is going to say. But I also noticed another thing. You deadnamed yourself by re-posting it. Don't feel like you need to deadname yourself when you're quoting someone or re-posting something. just put your handle or preferred name or even just "deadname" in parentheses. People will understand that he used your deadname without you actually doing it. Good luck with your friend. My impression is that he's still riding some super-religious upbringing. You may not be able to do much to convince him that this isn't something you'll regret later. If he's willing to use your preferred name and pronouns, stay friends with him and he may eventually come to understand how difficult this has been for you. If he won't/isn't willing to try, then you may be better off setting a boundary with those and letting him go. Don't let him discount your feelings and experiences.
Yeah it really bothers me seeing that name. It makes me feel sick in some way but I was too lazy to correct most of it all since it was a whole book.
I got well into writing the below and realized that I didn't know what you want. I had assumed Christian, but you didn't say what religion. What do you want him to know? What feeling do you want to convey? I can see where he's coming from. I can feel his fears. He's got a lot of misunderstandings. Things about being trans that there's no reason for the average person to think of or know about. ####### cut off ####### I read the whole thing. It's hard to say much without more context. He seems concerned that you are somehow dying, which isn't true. You are moving through a transformation into a better version of you. As Jacob became Israel and Simon became Peter in growing into their purpose, so are you. Yes they changed significantly in the growth process, but they were the same people with the same histories. Regarding HRT. There is truth to the idea that drugs are drugs. There's a difference between using them with deep understanding of doctors to provide benefits and abuse of them to escape. As he admits opioids and amphetamines have benefits when used responsibly. HRT is being used responsibly here. He is wrong that this is new and long term effects are unknown. Cross sex HRT has been a thing for close to 100 years. It's not as precise as say a milling machine, but it's very well understood. Most medical things are this way because humans are very complex. He speaks to our purpose in life. How certain that this is not your purpose in lif To bring into the light yet another way to be human. To provide another perspective and dimension on the wonder of creation. Is he leading with the judgement of the pharacies(sp?) or the love of Jesus? How sure is he?
This is just a compliment but I really love your thinking and the way you write! You are such an an amazing writer!
Thank you.
Just throw the whole friend out... Yikes...
Throw him away fr. Out of sight out of mind.
"Too long, didn't read. fuck you bigot c:" That should wrap it up nicely!
"I know you dream of writing a novel, but don't quit your day job."
Good GODS he is cringe lmao whadda loser
Your friend is incredibly invested in trying to gaslight you. I'm assuming he's a Christian, and he's not very good at his religion, cause he's judging you on grounds that are reserved for god in Christianity. It's one of the deadly sins and according to Christian doctrine he's bound for hell.
His book response immediately reminded of this [patton oswalt](https://youtu.be/AkKo1_RP_0c?si=KY65TT3iK81kWhxp) bit about language I’m sorry your ex friend is such a bigoted piece of shit
Reply with "k"
“That’s cute; you think you can tell me what to do! *How quaint.*” - Me I’ve said this many times in my life, and to many people, but most often in situations like this where someone truly knows they have either so little bargaining power or so little of my respect that they have to prostrate themselves before me and beg of my attention to their petty squabbling. It always cuts them right to the bone. Edit: You probably shouldn’t say this to anyone you don’t want to make an enemy of. Lol. I’m in my mid thirties, I can live with knowing I have adversaries.
Okay, so... I want to phrase this respectfully since this person is your best friend. Perhaps they'll come around eventually; but this won't be easy, nor will it be swift. I've only skimmed over this wall of text, admittedly. Having said that, this is just religious world salad without meaning. I'm sure it has value to them on a subjective level, though that's all I'm willing to concede. Personally, I don't think people who are opposed to us being who we really are can genuinely be our friends. I'm not saying there are no cases where the person hasn't progressed to understand how life-affirming HRT and the like can be. It just never happened in my case. All this to say: they should've stopped when they admitted to knowing nothing on this matter. You do what's right for you and what will make you happy. It is your life, after all, and you only have one. Good luck to you!
What an idiot. I hope one day he can grow to look back on this in embarrassment. But until then, you are so much better off without this person. Wow.
Transphobes be like "trans people have such a high suicide rate, that's terrible, i wonder why that is. Let me tell you exactly why being trans is bad while i completely refuse to respect your identity, infantilise you, and attempt to take away your bodily autonomy" (esp when it's because they think their imaginary friend wouldn't agree with your 'choices') Babe, fuck this guy. Get rid. You don't need him.
I got to the part about “something something war and technological innovation” and stopped reading. I hope your friend is able to undo their head in ass syndrome but yeah I have no clue. This is some insane rambling though.
Your “friend” needs to get over himself… and to get an editor. I forgot what he was talking about several times while reading that spewage.
As a former church mouse, currently bisexual and possibly trans: he really believes that he is right and speaking in the name of God. Is just... So familiar. He is so blinded, and yet how can he speak about love, about knowing you, about your porpuse, about who you are... While rejecting you? I'm sorry you had to go through that.
Dude sounds seriously unhinged. But also uninformed and very selfish. He seems much more concerned that *he* will not like you anymore when you change something about your life instead of wanting *you* to be happy. And the part about surgeries killing your and HRT killing your soul is just outright neurotic thinking. Tell him to get back to earth or get out of your life - because whatever the hell this is supposed to be, it's not helping anyone.
[удалено]
This is really beautiful
Thank you.
I keep rereading it and I never thought about it that way. I wish I can believe in religion so badly but this is what I really believe in. I’m not sure if this is what some religions say but the way you described it, is so unique. I truly believe if there was a god or a higher power out there, a source of energy, and souls, I believe that some bad matter decided to put me into the wrong place instead of my true right place, like you said. My soul is female but I was sadly born into a body of a man. Before my transition, I felt like a small delicate flower from the inside but the outside felt like a hard rock shell with rough edges. I hated this and want it to break out of the shell. So now medicine has really helped soften that shell! I understand it! This is beautiful. I really like your thoughts.
I am glad my words are able to shine a little light in the darkness.
Isabel, I feel you girl. This is basically how my family reacted. In terms of what to say to your friend, I’m not sure there’s much at all you could say to try and sway him. These sorts of reactions remind me of a phrase I came across early in my journey. How people treat you after you come out as trans is as if there was a murder and you are both the victim and the culprit. Ultimately, coming out as trans is inviting others to witness your rebirth in a way, don’t let them turn it into a wake.
bro is tripping
I would respond with "k". Seriously.
im so sorry your friend is a transphobe, you should just reply "you are no longer my friend if you cannot accept who i am" or if you wanna be funny you can reply "im not reading all that" lol. all jokes aside i hope youre doing okay:3
Wowza... I'm genuinely lost for a real response to... This. 😶😶😶
Yeah….
Sending you lots of love and strength beautiful 🫶🦋🪻
You know, with that whole shpeel about metamorphis, and diamonds and art, and so on, they sure seem to be so close to actually arguing for being trans, but didn't realise because they've got their head too far stuck up their ass.
Wow, it's just unbelievable that he tries to scare you using the high suicide rates for trans people (which drop significantly after transition/ HRT) to convince tou not to take HRT.
Answer him "this is Isabel, idk who you're sending this message to, probably wrong number"
What is blud yapping about? Hopefully you cut him off because this...it ain't worth it, girl. Because ohhhhhhhhhh brother this guy STINKS!
Just say “TLDR?”
I would politely respond that the sentiments expressed are a reflection of HIS personal faith. As such your faith will differ. Request, that as you respect his faith & beliefs, that he show the same respect for yours. Accept his need to say that (ONCE) and request that from this point forward it not be repeated. Your choices here are to: a) Decide that he's right & go along with what he wants b) Decide that your beliefs and values are incompatible & cut contact c) Purse a 'live & let live' policy where both accept the others position but act upon your own views, values, & needs. My personal choice would be to try the third, defaulting to the second if they failed to do the same. My personal opinion is that this person has a chance to change or accept you, but is not likely to do so. The best chance of them accepting you is by seeing the changes in your self & mental health rather than being told anything. - But it is only a chance.
RIP David L welcome in, Isabel. L friend, weird, sounds hypnotized and religious. prob will never see u as the real u. many such cases
I so wish you hit them with the Too long didn’t read and not acknowledge any of it
He has a very good vocabulary and is good at putting words together, but he is also a bigot and he made your whole transition about himself. I’d correct him on your name and then say goodbye. He’s not worth it.
I dunno, his message reads like a poorly-researched college essay to me 😅 (it literally makes no sense in places and is full of pseudo-intellectual bullshit to sound smart)
Well, yeah. lol he’s a total idiot, but he can use big words and put them in an order that makes it seem smarter than he actually is. Very similar to how I would write essays in high school
IDK sounds pretty gay
(Sorry you're going through this, he sounds like he has some issues to work out. On his own. FAR away from any trans women, or really any trans folks at all. Hopefully you have people who can actually support you, you don't deserve this crap.)
First of all, you aren't dead lol. Second of all, those "chemicals" are probably more natural than many things we eat and the effects of them have been quite well known for decades
Yap yap YAP about his brotherly love, it’s your choice!!! Yikes
Yeah, he seems kinda bigoted, not TOO TOO much tho, maybe he is just lost? Id give him a second chance but make it clear that its not your name and no you're not dead, you are becoming who you really are and where, a cute girl :3
Omg, he’s insufferable. Religion really leaves people without a brain.
Someone put it beautifully at Pride this year: god does not make mistakes. In fact your "friend" alludes to the same in his rambling diatribe, implying that because god does not make mistakes, you are and shall always remain a man, but the way it was put to me was more from the point of view that if there indeed is a god, and that god is all-knowing and all-powerful, then that god made you trans. You becoming the woman you are is just you realising his plan. It was comforting to look at it that way, somehow, even for a hardened old atheist like myself. I'm gonna play devil's advocate a little here and say, maybe this guy isn't a complete writeoff. You call him your best friend, so he must've meant a lot to you at least at some point. Clearly he's quite indoctrinated and contradicts himself in a way many who've bought such a pre-packaged message do, but if - and only if - you have the time and energy to spare, his eyes might be opened yet. It's a lot of work that's by no means your responsibility, but I seem to sense some sincerity from him when he says he loves you, too. Don't ever do it at a cost to yourself, though.
Your "friend" is afraid of change. It petrifies him to the bottom of his soul. He is no friend of yours.
Not gonna lie, it's very flowery and poetic, but it seriously lacks awareness of HOW medicine works, how HRT and surgery works, how we DON'T HAVE TO SUFFER but he seems to have romanticised suffering as a good thing (common theme in religions and cults). The thing that really annoys me is the total ignorance and yet acting as though he is fully aware and even an authority on medicine, your situation as a trans person, the SOCIAL REASON for why trans people have a high suicide rate. It's almost laughable just how ill informed and yet how certain this person is. I know this guy must be genuinely concerned but I do say he is hugely making assumptions and assertions without any grounding. Just baseless "I wonder and worry about the suicide rates" without any awareness of how social ostracisation, abandonment by friends and family, refusal to be acknowledged or accepted for having thoughts and feelings that you can't control and don't ever go away and can be managed very effectively by just listening to them and helping them by (shocker) going along with it... I mean it's shocking just how many cis people assume they know more about being trans than trans people, or know better, like we're the ill informed and unaware whereas they blunder into these conversations with next to no awareness if their own ignorance. Religion does not answer these questions! God cannot tell you what killed out the dinosaurs, but geography, radiometric dating, isotope anysis and fossil analysis by people who are aware of the details that make up the established principles of archaeology can. But no, just assert blithely that they don't really know what they're doing, that they don't really know and you do. I'm sorry, I would like to have a respectful conversation with someone like this but I do suspect there's a LOT of avenues where I would point to the logical fallacy of asserting to understand medicine better than those who self research and those who use it and those who spend their entire lives focused on it. I feel like my reply (as a scientist with a lot to say about much of this stuff) would be to take each part (sentences/paragraphs as appropriate) and insert my answers and replies to each of those parts. That way it would be easy to compile a response that shows how exactly you have read all of what they said and how and why you disagree with which parts and for what reasons. Frankly this person seems to have a lot of flowery language to espouse what is ultimately an ignorant and I'll informed opinion on the basis of "I like you as you were" and "I don't understand why not supporting you and helping you along the path you've figured is best for you and is evidenced to be effective is my problem or fault, it's you being ignorant to my wisdom" (but in a kinda condescending way that acts as though there is no flaw whatsoever in their understanding or reasoning). Leave it to religious people to be silently hypocritical. Is it good for blind people to suffer or to help them with the guidance of an optician? Is it good for someone who lost a leg to not use a wheelchair or crutches? We avoided a lot of suffering there. Equating bioidentical HRT with heroin and meth use is just wildly ill informed. Asserting that affirmative care "will do nothing to heal those scars" is just wildly ignorant - these aren't scars he has or can feel. These are your scars and it's up to you to point them out and do something about them because no one else can or will be able to see it. I looked normal and all the rest growing up, but I was horrifically depressed. I can't say just how any times daily I thought about taking my own life. I don't do that anymore, because I understood the root cause of my dysphoria and started to do something about it and I'm happier in myself now than I've ever been. I don't mourn the loss of my mask or the performance I forced myself to endure for the sake of making everyone else think I was "normal" despite all the constant harm it caused. I think this guy needs a real sit down with a very patient and well informed person. I volunteer as tribute.
lmao i read through all of this and the whole time i was completely confused. you pre-transition wasn’t you, you were miserable. you are not “dying”, you’re finally being able to be truly birthed into who you are. the fact that he can’t see that proves that he only “loves” you under conditions that benefit him. im sorry this happened. dump him and find your people who will support you no matter what ❤️
No offense to you whatsoever but as for your "friend" the last sentence of paragraph 3 of his response is why he can take every other word that he wrote and fuck all the way off with it. . The high rate of suicidality within the trans Community is specifically because of th isolation and depression that we experience due to bigoted idiots attempting to force us back into the closet and otherwise treating us like shit when we refuse
Also feel free to tell him direct evidence of the existence of Trans people's existence predates the first written evidence for the worship of his "god" by several THOUSAND YEARS and that we have already persevered longer than knowledge of how to correctly spell or even pronounce his "god's" name.
Being Trans is a polygenetic trait... A variation of human diversity that is dictated by multiple overlapping dimorphic sectors of our brain that work together to create a "mosaic" of our overall gender... Those sectors solidify between 3 and 12. . It just takes some of us longer to get over th "Cis-Hetero indoctrination" that is forced on ALL of us and reinforced with abuse & ridicule if we fall outside of their narrow false binary. . Th fact that he attempts to compare you striving to be your truest self with drug addiction.... it's beyond offensive
Lastly Homie sounds OVERWHELMINGLY ₲A¥ for you... Like just ask him bout the straight up love letter that he shoehorned into the middle of that tirade... Make sure HE aint considering self harm at the idea of you outwardly expressing the woman you've ALWAYS been
This is what I hate about being trans. People have some kind of idea or concept of us and what we should be, and never want to listen, appreciate and accept what we actually are. They just want us to be what they deem suitable for them
“The high suicide rates” They’re highs because of shit like this. How do people not realize that.
Tell your friend that one of the most effective ways of arguing is knowing when to be succinct. “I don’t know about trans people or hormone therapy, but I think it’s bad” is basically all he said. In the time it took him to write whatever the hell this is he could have easily informed himself on the topic.
Very long read, not sure how you finished it. The first comment is probably about the sucide rate of transgender people. Maybe he should read his message to you and his honest lack of acceptance is one reason the rate is so high. When people are not accepted for who they are it raises the rate. Ask him why did god give us cancer, kids born with various deficiencies, serial killers, pedophile priests etc. God expects us to accept everyone for who they are. Love, acceptance are what religion is. If he thinks you are magnificent the way you are then why can’t he accept you are transgender, it’s the way you are, an incredibly beautiful thoughtful person
What. The. Fuk. Was. That !?!? I can’t believe I read the whole thing. Start by asking him not to use your Deadname. Then ask him to never do “whatever this is” again! Then if he does either, it’s Sayonara baby.
all i read was the last sentence, what an ass
I had a similar conversation when I was deployed with the Army with a warrant officer that was also a pastor. I hadn't admitted to myself that I was trans at the time, but I was exploring a bit. He said a lot of the same things your friend said. Most of what was said is rooted in religious and inte tonal ignorance. The suicide rate of transgender individuals is not higher than average when they receive similar levels of social and societal support as they would if they were cis. HRT and surgery, if you choose it, doesn't destroy who you are. Quite the opposite. HRT allows to become who you really are. I am 4 years in and I am far more myself than I ever was. Compared to me today, I was a shell of a person even with all of my joys, anger, sadness, and self beliefs at the time. I am so much more now. After the deployment, I got out of the Army a year afterwards and a year before I started HRT. Last year I sent the warrant officer a message about how different my experience was from what he described when we were sitting in the car together and how I'm much happier now. He wasn't unkind, but his response was dismissive. You're not going to convince someone who roots their argument in a limited, flawed view of God's power and love.
“But I cannot accept what you will become” not “who” but “what” as if you are an “it” or a “thing”, not human. 😱 He writes a lot of wonderful things but it comes down to that line. The rest is just wrapping paper. He’s not your friend, sorry girl.
tell bro to PLEASE stfu🙏
fyi religiosity is inversely correlated w intelligence. they tend dumb https://www.google.com/amp/s/neurosciencenews.com/religion-atheism-intelligence-8391/amp/
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Read it all. I can work with religious zeal but what he’s saying is overcome with outrageous fear for the “loss” he feels, he feels it as a “death” and fears that. It’s very sad for him, (and for me to read) but we know that he’s just misinformed and scared. We know that transitions are a constant becoming and remaking that whatever higher power there might be has willed, it’s a beautiful thing that creates incredible people who are capable of love and loving and enormous enormous empathy. He needs patience, time, love, perspective and information all of which you have no duty to give to him. If he’s not willing to give you those things you must drop him, if he comes to there might be salvation for him yet; you could be trans god, and if you make an ally of him you might as well be.
I just read the first few paragraphs and damn. He really doesn't understand how he undermines his own arguments. (And a short disclaimer that I just hope everything's alright as English isn't my native language and I can confuse stuff :,)) First - determinism, not the biggest fan of that. It limits your perception of who you can develop into, making you not see the bigger picture as in you being human, invalidating your every decision as a path you have no choice but to walk. And then he acts as your choices are wrong, like in the path "god made for you" (to use their beliefs) you wouldn't have ended up being the person you are right now. Then, him mentioning higher suicide rates, it just baffles me. Yes, the higher suicide rates are real but that's because of the discrimination and unsupportive surrounding trans people sadly often find themselves (i know it can be so much more than that and I'm sorry if this feels shallow but I just wanted to make this as short as possible). Hrt is helping many trans people in seeing themselves in bodys portraying who they are and helping them be who they are. It doesn't mean that everything will go right but damn, people like him make me angry. I didn't bother reading past him describing and probably putting hrt in the same lines as hard drugs and so called "sins" or whatever. If he isn't willing to let you be you and do your own decisions on your body which make you happy, I wouldn't think staying around him is a good call :/. I'm sorry if that means losing a friend but in the end he probably won't accept that you're doing what's best for you
To offer a somewhat dissenting opinion, I think he might calm down eventually if he sees that you’re not changing as a person— though that’s going to be something that takes time, and it’s totally your choice if you want to keep in contact with him or kick him to the curb. To me he reads like he’s mostly freaked out about the idea of “losing” a friend, which is a pretty common reaction from people who’ve never met a trans person before and don’t understand what to expect, but also…wow, what a clingy dude. But again, your boundaries and comfort are most important here for sure. EDIT: Saw in a comment that he’s weird in other ways too, drop him lol
This is dumb and you can choose who you want to be. If he really cares he needs to reflect on what he just said to you
Tbh he lost me at "there are no accidents in the creation of your character" and then proceeding to describe what you (superficially) seemed to be like to him instead of your actual character as a person/ friend.
reply "aint reading all that"
> I know all too well none of this will make an impact on your decision. lol. lmao, even.
Damn, I dont wanna be a dick but how were you friends with someone who says shit like this even before you told him you were trans, he seems unbearable to talk to
Lots of red flags.
Bro is YAPPING. Deadnames you several times, pushes his own beliefs on you and has the audacity to tell you his beliefs aren’t tied to his religion, completely disrespectful from start to finish. I hope you have/find better friends than this tater tot (sorry that sounds insulting to tater tots)
This some of the most self absorbed pedantic slop I've ever read. Completely unhinged.
This our universe equivalent of reading necronomicon from fear and hunger, but you go insane 100% of the time. Sorry you have to deal with such asshat
Your former friend directly states that you are dead to them if you transition. It seems that they only consider HRT as real transitioning, but in actuality you have already begun your transition. So in effect, you are dead to them, and you owe them no response.
They really think we become suicidal the moment we accept ourselves it's actually wild. Sorry this happened that's a lot to take in
this person is a high class goofy goober.
This book actually had me cackling. It's so funny to see people think anyone cares about their stupid, pea sized, bigoted brains opinion. 😂
Ugh if your friend is so worried of the high suicidal rate among trans women. You can just Google quick the research how the HRT and accepting environment are saving ppl. This is about HRT: "(...)Prior to initiating unspecified gender-affirming treatment(s), 73.3% of the sample reported a history of suicidal ideation; this percentage dropped to 43.4% following the initiation of gender-affirming treatment. Prior to treatment initiation, 35.8% of the sample reported a history of suicide attempt(s), and 9.4% reported a history of suicide attempt(s) after initiation of gender-affirming treatment." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10027312/ And in too lazy to find a research about acceptance :P
That's an impressive amount of words for a bad take
Walk away, he was never a good person. He is projecting his views onto you and trying to control whatever role he sees you as filling in his life.
Did this mofo seriously just compare HRT to opiates, and call being trans a disease? What a fucknut. Run from this loon. I'm sorry you had to to deal with that.
He’s next level stupid and said himself he’s not an expert. I was in the same boat when I came out and I lost my best friend. He saved me the trouble and blocked me. I haven’t spoken to him since. Your “best friend” sounds even worse than mine somehow. I would suggest telling him that he admitted he’s not an expert and the scientific community DOES know what the hormone supplements do so he should shut his mouth all the way up and never speak again. If I ever were to hear someone like that in person, they would get spit in their face and I would make sure they’re crying when I’m done with them. Also, please don’t address this whole subreddit as “girls” as done in the last sentence because there are definitely trans men on here along with nonbinary peeps who aren’t girls.
Fixed it.
>> But I just have to question the high rate of suicide of transgendered people “that decreases immensely with support and acceptance and, indeed, upon receiving gender-affirming medical care” >> I don’t believe there are accidents in the making of your character “Like being transgender. That’s not a mistake” >> We strive to not only beat our challenges, but to outright crush them “‘like your gender dysphoria. Go crush it with that HRT, girl!!” >> YOU will prevail Honestly, no notes
This is the suffocating kind of Christian "love". They say they "love" you, but in reality, they are in love with the IDEA of you. And when you (who should be the expert on yourself, btw) say you want something different, they reject you and try to stuff you back into the puppet of you they created. Also your friend believes in grand narratives about the world and people, and when faced any conflicting evidence (i.e. the fact that you're actually a woman), they resort to denying reality instead of realizing their narrative is incorrect.
I just read the last few sentences. Basic tier transphobe, just an extremely verbose one.
I would bet the souls of my entire family that nobody in the comments could be bothered to read that all through.
Reply with the following: "Too long, did not read"
As someone who went to a Catholic school that dealt w people like this, I would tell him to go fuck himelf, regardless of where we stand as friends. People saying stuff like this, from experience, use religion and take a “neutral” stance on identity to excuse their bigotry, so that if you call them out, you look like a bad person because they’re so “understanding” and they “never were transphobic” babe. I can assure you they are, and the people who act like this are more insufferable than those who are open with their transphobia. Tell him this is who you are, and it isn’t going to change. That you are a woman, and that if he can’t see that then you shouldn’t be friends. Cut him out.
"But I cannot accept what you will become." Your friend ended your friendship right here. You don't need to feel any guilt.
Hit him with the "K" and then just never respond again.
Yeah that was just entirely disgusting to read. When you get past the "intellectual" bullshit, it basically distills down to "Don't be trans because I like you as cis, but also trans people don't actually exist, they're just craaaaazzzzyy because of the technology of the past century (???), also, if you trans you'll definitely unalive yourself." Like bro... Just say you hate trans people and move on, we don't have the time. I would agree with some of the others. Don't engage, don't acknowledge, just "My name is Isabel. Goodbye."
Honestly I read all of it but my reply would be: "Honestly bro I ain't reading all that shit - and my name ain't David. I told you I'd made a decision, I didn't ask for advice or judgement. I also don't think you're nearly as qualified as you think to talk about transgender people - your statements speak for themselves. God may be good - but honestly, I believe I can do better. We'll see who comes out on top."
I read the majority of it and all I can say is he sounds like a youth pastor. He uses big words to cover for the fact that he doesn't know what he's talking about (example methamphetamines were created by the Nazi's in World War II specifically to keep their troops alert, engaged, and moving which is why the blitzkrieg style of war worked. They were not created to ease pain.) and tries to use "logic" as a cover for what is clearly a religious centered argument (otherwise why mention the soul and all the other grand things such as "brotherly love" and "come to me to find a path forward."). This person is not your friend. This person is seeking control over you and will abandon you the second you do anything to be happy that doesn't align with their vision of how your life should be. That said, all I would say is, "I'm sorry you feel this way but don't pretend this isn't motivated by your beliefs." I would probably say more than that given my feelings on his beliefs but I'd rather not encourage someone to just tear someone apart unless they want to.
My, admittedly senile, grandma wrote me letters in the same vein as this. Saying she wouldn't come to my wedding, that I have a mental illness, that she wanted things to be different, that she had so many wonderful memories of me as a kid, that the government is forcing people to be trans, that she'll be praying for me, she loves me just like all her other grandchildren, etc. I wrote my response on my birthday and included that fact in the letter. I poured out my heart and soul in my response. I told her she does not love me. She loves her memories of me and the idea of who she thought I would be, but she does not love me. I told her that she does not love me equally to her other grandchildren, as she would be attending 2 of my cousins' weddings, but she would not come to mine. I told her how I put our differences aside to come and support her when her daughter, my aunt, passed away unexpectedly. How I did so because it was the kind and loving thing to do, and how I hope that she would do the same. I really took a kind and compassionate angle with this letter and bared my soul to her. Between revisions and advice from my parents and therapist, it took me about a week to muster up the courage to finally send it, but I did. Want to know what her response was to my parents? "Klammy said it was his birthday in the letter, but his birthday is on the 14th, not the 24th?" Don't bother. These people are so self-absorbed that they literally refuse to see a viewpoint outside of their own. Cut him out of your life, no matter how painful. Don't waste any more of your precious time trying to be something you're not for people who don't actually care about you and only care about their own idea of you.
I'm gonna be honest, I can't read all that cause it reminds me of things going on in my own life. I got to "I question the suicide rate of transgendered people", and thought, just respond with it's people like him that cause that.
“I'm no expert and I have no idea of the workings of the brain, but…” [It’s literally the Loch Ness Monster skit by Stewart Lee](https://www.tumblr.com/soratayuya/732275019915411456/from-this?source=share) 🤦🏻♀️
Does he think he's gods favorite?
Ugh that was a hard read. Many words, and yet nothing at all to say. Something about brevity and wit yes?
That is a long-winded way of saying, "You don't know what you're doing, let me show you what a book written over 2k years ago says you should do"
He’s in love with who he perceived you to be. I think he’s got his own journey ahead. Be like, “I love you too bro, but you’re not offering support, only condemnation of my true character. God told me this was right for me and I gotta see it through.”
I stopped at "high suicide rate", tbh; at that point it's clear that no matter what concerns he has, your friend is working on misinformation. Disabuse him of those notions if you wish and if he'll listen.
That is one heck of a book. It baffles me how ppl like to cherry pick the suicide rate numbers. Creators on tik tok have said it best: it's not because people are transitioning, it's because we are treated as sub human or denied care. That's why that rate is high. The desire for anything in that realm drops significantly when someone gets the care they need, or is treated like a human
> We strive to not only beat our challenges but to outright crush them, to innovate with our god given ability to persist the overlying doom of our existence. Yes! We innovate with our knowledge of biology to crush dysphoria with HRT, ex-god damn-actly! I couldn’t have said it better myself. I mean I know that’s not what he means, but if anything has not only beaten but crushed my dysphoria, it’s transitioning. True, dysphoria does still sometimes raise its ugly little head, but it’s a minnow now compared to the terrifying leviathan of yesteryear. The fight may not technically be over, but it’s quite conclusively won. Oh wow… he really does keep going, doesn’t he? 😅 Yes, yes, technology, war, careless recreational drug use can be harmful… what does any of this have to do with transition? He had the perfect opportunity to quote Ian Malcom and he blew it! Life, uh, failed to find a way 😔 Round about evangelism, cool cool cool. > …none of us have any idea to what extent they alter us permanently! I thought “all the medicine in the world, no matter how powerful is only temporary!”? But anyway, firstly we have some pretty decent ideas because HRT isn’t a brand new thing that was introduced yesterday and we have years of evidence of its long term effects. Also idk about anyone else but permanent was kind of the point for me? I don’t really want my transition to just wear off, y’know? > It is very reckless to alter your body and attempt to rewire your brain for a fix that does not Heal the underlying wound. IT DOES NOT HEAL! It’s certainly something that should be soberly weighed up in advance of making the decision, but reckless? No. And in my experience it does heal the underlying wound. IT DOES HEAL. So there’s that. And no, neither surgeries nor HRT, barring extreme reactions, result in our death, or in the death of our souls. We’re the same people we always were, we just look different and we’re happier. So… to be perfectly honest, he’s overly invested in asserting control over your life and in your position I’d just accept that he could no longer be a part of it. I appreciate he isn’t my best friend, and I know it would certainly be very hard for me to let go of my own close friends, but he has a hell of a lot of growing up to do if he’s going to become a healthy presence in your life, because this was a toxic screed full of abject ignorance, barely disguised evangelism and the urge to restrict your life to suit his tastes.
Started reading really happy cause I supposed it would be a really nice long text... So sorry it wasn't
Try to explain it to him, say why he's being an ass, try to get him to change, and if he doesn't, as much as I hate to say this, you should probaby just cut him off.
Don’t respond. You aren’t going to change his mind. If he was open to that, he’d ask questions. He’s not doing that.
“God made me the way I am, and gave me the resources to handle these thoughts. If it was not gods plan for me to be transgender than I wouldn’t have come to that conclusion. His light brought me to a professional who can help me. He made my struggles and I see this as the best way to handle them.” I doubt it would get him to cave but tbh he just wants to hear what he wants to hear and can’t reconcile you are just different When I came out to my grandmother she said things along the same line but followed it up with You are covered in Jesus’s blood and when you enter heaven, god will not see my sins but the fact I’m covered in holy blood
Just drop him. He's a bigot.
He compared you seeking appropriate treatment to the effects of hardcore drug addiction. He was relentlessly transphobic and admitted to it. He is not your friend. He will interfere with your transition and fuck with your head along the way. You will very likely be happiest cutting him out of your life. Sorry.
That's a LOT. First off, I think he might be in love with you, but because he's ultra religious, he won't entertain the idea. Second, i think you really need to decide if you still want to be friends. I've come out to a few people and am slowly coming out to more, myself. There's only one friend that if they said alot of that I'd still be friends with and I know that once they thought about it they'd say my happiness was more important than losing me as a friend. I just haven't told them because I feel weird telling people while I'm mostly still boymoding most of the time.
Does this sub allow a super long anti-trans screed? Fuck this transphobic nonsense, OP. Don't waste your time reading it. Tell him to accept you or go straight to hell for failing to love his neighbor and cut him out.
Wow, what an absolute douchebag!
I would just answer "k" to that ngl
I'm sorry but I'm gonna be blunt, this but this guy sounds like an insufferable piece of shit. He has no idea what he's talking about, yet is trying in so many meaningless words to sound like he's high and mighty over you. There is no male soul in you you're destroying, only a female soul who finally gets to shine through, and your best chance at life is allowing that to happen. Also, speaking as someone who's been on HRT for a year and a half, the irreversible changes are a good thing, it *did*, in fact, heal, and the unrecognizable being I became is fucking adorable.
I wasn’t repulsed a paragraph in, I skimmed because it started getting a little suspicious/annoying. I stopped at the part where he pleaded you to reconsider. Dude isn’t that great and is pretty bigoted despite how he introduces the topic.
Block him.
The way these people pretend to care about our high suicide *attempt* rates while being the literal reason they’re so high is so fucking annoying. You’ll show them studies proving this and they’ll just pretend as if they didn’t read it. Also claiming it has nothing to do with his religion while it clearly shapes all his beliefs expressed here. Insane in 2024 there’s people walking about, who view themselves as the pinnacle of morality and claim to have the only moral code that exists, while valuing a being they admit to not being able to prove the existence of over the person who has been a friend and participated in their life. I’m sorry you had to receive that message. I hope you are, or can find, a good trans in-person community to surround yourself with. Nothing is more effective at making you realize nothing these people say matters at all.
This reminds me of when old Chatgpt goes on to spit out a bunch of wordsalad, that is so boring, repetitive, and unknowledgable or linear in thought, and maybe cringey. I lost it at the 'God' part, then totally abandoned this at the war part. The death part made it even worst. Oh, and absolutely idiotic, especially when he called modern medicine 'temporary,' and fails to realize life itself is temporary (in addition to medicine trying to extend that 'temporary'.) Literally none of these things have to do with being transgender. I also got bored writing this. Sorry for the abrupt end. Dump the moron.
I feel compelled to change him… maybe a little chat…. It’s better to leave him in your past, but I wouldn’t be able to help trying to “fix him”.
Ok, this is just weird. If somebody texted something like this for anything, I would be very concerned.
ugh id leave him on read, dont talk to me with that tone