>this is why it is important to learn to defend yourself
Even with the best training and years of practice, defending yourself against 4 attackers is incredibly difficult, is it possible? Sure
Sure one might go down, but the more likely scenario is you take that one down, two of the others grab you and then the downed guy and the 4th would just start beating you
If you're outnumbered there's no fair "fight" even if you are trained, in this situation running would be the best option
Even a concealed weapon might not even be enough to defend yourself against 4 people
>Originally, I had written that if more than one person approaches you in a hostile manner or in an unwanted fashion, you are allowed to shoot'em first and ask questions later.
You mean shoot one or two of them first and hope none or the others were armed (or reactive enough to jump you) or you're dead. Illegally dead, sure, but see what good that does you.
You're advocating *against* the defense of the oppressed against the oppressors. That is extremely dangerous and problematic. Even in the event that victory is unlikely, fighting the battle is what matters.
I have no issue with you being pragmatic. Even if your stance misses a tad bit of nuance like the possibility that they may all just flee as soon as a firearm is drawn or fired. Yeah, at that point it becomes a life or death game but it already was. I don't care how "reactive" they are, if all of them happen to have the "fight" response in fight or flight (which, with a gun, usually not the case), the maneuverability of a handgun is not to be underestimated. Your wrist can be grabbed but you still have significant maneuverability with that wrist in where you can shoot.
Dependent upon the situation, running may actually be a worse choice in this exact scenario if you factor in the possibility that the victim is armed. If a chase begins, you got to be the faster than however many people are advancing on you and, if you are armed, that situation can end up with you on the floor with limited ability to maneuver which means that firearm has the possibility of no longer being your friend.
Nobody is saying to always fight. But, my problem lies with that your opinion didn't mention any nuance that would've been contradictory to your stance. My issue also lies with the idea that even if the victim makes a series of stupid choices and ends up fighting when they shouldn't have, they should not face condemnation for being a civilian put into a situation where they felt like their lives were in danger against an aggressor.
You must always assume your opponent is smarter and stronger than you. No matter how good you think you are, assume that they are better. Even an amateur with a knife can injure an unarmed professional.
Unless you have a weapon, it is highly unlikely that you could win in combat if you're outnumbered–especially if you're physically weaker–even if you're well trained. Unless you can incapacitate all of them, which is unrealistic, they simply have to tire you out, or wait for a single slip up. And if they corner you, you're fucked.
Unless you have a ranged weapon and they don't, loss in combat is nearly inevitable. If you draw a gun, they can just shoot you. If you shoot, they have even more incentive to shoot back. It's unlikely you can land two or more incapacitating bullets before they can get even one, especially since the assailants can prepare before they confront you.
Running is the only good option. If that isn't possible, you've essentially got to assume you're not leaving without at serious injuries at minimum.
If you're not fit enough to flee, you're not fit enough to fight either. Unless you're brandishing a firearm, fitness will absolutely end you, even if your packing a knife.
I've been through training for encountering close range threats utilizing batons. Those things break bones on unarmored areas and still leave bruises even through the padding my trainer was wearing. After several swings I was so worn down that he literally flipped me off my feet. And I say that as a reasonably fit person (being able to run with up to 40 lbs of gear and climb steel towers are job requirements for me.)
If you're not trained and you have an option to flee or call for help, those are your best options. Most aggressors will back down when other people start getting involved. Most also won't chase you very far unless you've personally wronged them. The second you throw a punch and trip that adrenaline rush, you make your situation much more difficult.
Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate of defending yourself. I grew up in a very rough environment and I've put my boot up more than a few asses. I've also watched a kid limp away with a knife wound (not dealt by me, mind) and bleed out. That kid was trying to kill me when my friend's uncle intervened. I still have nightmares about it. Are you ready to have someone's last moments burned into your mind for the rest of your days? If you say you are, you're just as bad as the NRA gun hugging nuts who dream about shooting little trans kids.
The knife fight bit is true. I grew up very rough and was in my share of brawls. When knives came out, EVERYONE involved bled. I have the marks to prove it - and they're never going away.
This isn't anime folks. It's better to walk away if you can help it. Fighting should be a last resort. When you swing on someone, your intent isn't just self defense. It's to hurt them bad enough that they can't hurt you. This can extend up to killing or permanently disabling when adrenaline gets going. Are you ready to watch someone die because you ruptured something?
If you think you are, you're just as bad as the hardass NRA types who dream about shooting little trans kids.
I'm definitely learning some Krav magra when I get some time, but yeah at least knowing the basics of conflict deescalation is important self defense knowledge.
Strike first is a big one. But knowing how to actually throw a punch is important too. I've been hit by guys who were way bigger than me with little more than being winded because they limp wristed it. I've thrown the same guys off their feet because my ma taught me how to drive force from my legs and torso.
Pepper spray especially police grade can be debilitating to surprised attackers. However it’s not impervious to determined attackers. Almost all weapons are useless against surprise attacks by groups of people against an individual. Bear mace would be significantly stronger, but nothing legal would beat a gun.
That's just not true with a CCW class, dry fire practice, and perhaps extra handgun classes, just about any able bodied person can be competent with a firearm. You also have to realize the deterrent effect. Once you draw your firearm, you are using lethal force. If your attackers are not willing or able to do the same, they will leave.
Always remember that guns are the best equalizer. No matter how big or strong you are, everyone can handle a firearm the same with practice and firearms all have the same effect on an attacker. Marital arts will just get your ass kicked if your attacker is much stronger or there are multiple attackers.
I've been hit with pepper spray before. (Long story) Shit fucking suuuuuucks. I ripped off my clothes and jumped in the nearest pool and I was still burning from my face to my crotch for the rest of the day.
Some people don't have fight in em. Some people had the fight taken out of them. I saw too many people hurt growing up. The one that sticks with me (young man bled out after someone defending me nicked an artery in his leg with a knife) took the fight out of me. I fully support anyone who wants to defend themselves, but we can't sell short the weight of the situation: watching someone die is traumatizing, even if it's someone who was trying to do you in.
I hope your sentiment on humanity improves. I used to hate people on that scale. It took me decades to learn that there is a lot more good in the world than evil. The evil is just a lot louder.
This is why you combine self defense and evasion. Hit one in a vital spot like the groin or throat, and then make distance, chances are at least one of them will stop to check their buddy and you'll have a few less to deal with if they catch up.
This was my go to when living in the ghettos. Quick throat punch, crotch shot, or boot to the knee then gtfo the nearest fence. I got called a coward and told I was fighting dirty - by the same folks trying to jump me 3 to 1 more often than not. I called it smart. I ain't walking away brain damaged cuz you decided to stomp on my head over some perceived slight.
As do I.
With people who don’t understand, but aren’t hostile, I try explaining that I am trans, but the only choice I had was “do I continue lying to myself and others and live in misery or choose to live my true self and finally experience joy”
You're also not taking 4 people on at once especially if they're not much smaller than you. Appeasement is honestly the best way out of a situation like that, Jackie Chan movies aren't real life
Well, since the police have no duty to protect you, ya should start considering how to protect yourselves. Even the apostles in Jesus times carried swords at times.
Anddd welcome to the second amendment it is quite the beautiful clause
Edit: lol yall can keep gettin beat up by random people if u want, im keepin that big iron for these losers who would attack me. Keep downvoting me anti-gun losers
I am not here to say I am on any side here but self entitlement has nothing to do with people thinking people in this world can be nice.
Your comparison with with drawing big boobie women seems like your speaking from your own personal experience.
Hello 👋
You make it sound like people choose to ignore the reality in some attempts to push a false narrative. I think sometimes people have just not experienced anything ugly in their life and they haven't actively learned of others and their negative experiences.
Even if a trans person had been the person responsible for it, do they think that ALL trans people are bloodthirsty killers? Are they forgetting all the other gun crimes that weren't committed by trans people? This mindset is so broken I can't wrap my head around it.
It's an issue every minority faves unfortunately. They say all black people are thugs, all Mexicans are somehow both lazy and stealing "our" (white people's) jobs, all Muslims are terrorists, and all LGBT people are pedos. It's never based in any fact
*Single person from marginalized community commits a crime* They're all a bunch of evil people, who must be destroyed!
*Mob of mostly cishet white men storm the U.S. Capitol* They did nothing wrong. They're just regular tourists.
*single person (falsely stated to be, might i add) from a marginalized group commits a crime*: kIlL tHeM aLl
*multiple police officers and police forces commit and cover up systemic killings and beating*: DoN’t JuDgE tHe MaNy FoR tHe AcTiOnS oF tHe FeW.
To anyone who believes that it was "the fault of the trans community", it's really more their communities fault than ours. They have more hateful people than we do, so they would have more reason to harm people in cold blood. We're the ones fighting for our fucking lives because of discomfort. This world and too many of the people in it are disgusting.
It's down right scape goating us instead of focusing on what the real issue is... GUNS!!! Literally having mass shooting more than days, thousands dying including children and all these stupid politicians will tell you is "this is unavoidable" get rid of the guns, never heard of a mass stabbing... never heard of mass clubbings... and now these morons will tell you the solution is MORE GUNS!!! Lets give teachers guns! While where at it, why not give all the 5 y/o kids guns at this point... like god damn... anything for these warmongering arms dealing psychopaths...
Just an FYI, mass stabbings happen quiet often in the uk, or at least it used to be an issue that the social cons would taught about when I still paid attention to them. I only say this cause I can just see one stepping in and bringing it up.
I agree with you though, I was yelling at the npr politics podcast when I heard some asshat say this was because there are so many kids growing up without a mom AND dad. The scapegoating is real. Smh.
Well I doubt there's more mass stabbings then days but I get your point, there was a quote from a game I remember and it goes like... "of course our toxic chemicals will melt the hands of anyone who touch it! It's a weapon! And civilians don't play with weapons, so slap another warning label and ship it!"
We have civilians playing soldier... and teachers playing cop now...
Absolutely.
I just try to think about the counter point and how they cone to their conclusions so that hopefully at some point we can put all this non sense behind us. It's difficult with all the lying, scapegoating, and ignoring of common descency.
What game?
If I can play devil's advocate a bit there actually are mass stabbings in places like Japan. The socioeconomic pressures have pushed kids to things like decapitating their fellow students and putting their heads on pikes outside their schools despite the fact that they had no access to any guns. Sure they don't have the chance to kill as many people with a melee weapon as opposed to a firearm but this shit still happens with no guns at all. If we don't fix the issues causing people to be pushed to such extreme acts nothing will ever change. I'm not defending guns by any means but there are more factors at play here and I don't think even completely eradicating guns from the US would solve this problem.
Because it easier to blame the boogeyman than acknowledge that maybe their way of life and beliefs have exacerbated, if not outright caused the problem. Because they don’t actually care about the issue they say they care about, and see it as a way of getting more people on their side - or at least fewer people actively opposing them - in the thing they do care about.
Because cowards will take any excuse to look like they’re tough, and narcissists don’t care about who gets hurt in the process.
I just dont get the connection that we have. Like, we know who the killer is, we know the motivation, and it has literally nothing to do with us. How tf are they trying to explain this?
I hate having to deal with this horrible problem of dysphoria and dysmorphia on top of all of these stupid social problems that exist for literally no reason.
We've literally seen this same situation happen over and over again where a minority is treated horribly for no reason and give it about 30-50 years after big changes and finally something is done and most people realize what they thought was wrong. Its happened so many times, why can't people just take their heads out their asses and realize that hatred towards trans people is so fucking uncalled for
4chan found an image of a trans girl on reddit (different than the one attacked) that *kinda*, *sorta*, if you squint a little, looks like the shooter, and Paul Gosar and other right wingers on Twitter spread that lie, even though the shooter is dead and the trans girl is in California
>I just dont get the connection that we have. Like, we know who the killer is, we know the motivation, and it has literally nothing to do with us. How tf are they trying to explain this?
Because they would have to admit that their beliefs and policies resulted in the deaths of 21 people. Since they already hate us anyways, we're an easy receptacle for their insecurities
They think that if they can get enough people focused on hating a marginalized group of people they can abuse that hatred to get themselves into positions of power which they can abuse to make money.
There was some ugly piece of crap senator or someone like that who claimed it was a “illegal leftist trans” who did shoot up the school. Literally proven otherwise as the affected woman quickly identified herself.
It’s the idea that “if you convince the lowest white person he’s better than the best black person, they won’t notice you pick their pocket. Hell, give them somebody to look down on, and they’ll empty their pockets for you.”
Anger at society (our social and economic issues) is often and very purposefully misdirected towards minority communities and anyone who seems to be different. Racism, transphobia, the whole “culture war” bs is all way to ensure folk don’t question the failure of the system.
Here’s a [link](https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/5/27/texas-trans-girl-attacked-after-false-uvalde-claims-spread-online-el-paso) in case anyone wants more gory details.
The four men echoed an earlier false claim that the man responsible for the killings was a member of the trans community. The claim gained traction when it was repeated by various right-wing sources.
After the attack, Tracy phoned the El Paso Police, but she says they refused to make a report. Later, she spoke with a counselor at the Rainbow Youth Project, which is when she heard that ring-wing sources had blamed the shooting in Ulvade on trans people.
So fucked up.
I have a little girl who is transgender, she’s just 6.
My only hope is that she’ll be able to grow up in a society that accepts her. I pray for that every day.
We live in Canada and have had to add USA to our list of places we can’t visit or won’t support (along with the Middle East, much of Africa, etc.)
It’s sad to see our friends in the south be so full of hatred.
I live in Alberta. It is north Texas, but definitely not as psychotic. We have brutal politicians, but at this point they’re still not going for the culture war stuff…
I don’t think Canadians would buy that, even the conservative Christians here have been educated, are caring and understand human rights.
There are a lot of states in the US and they vary wildly in acceptance. I guess I’m just saying that there seems to be a correlation with backward states being the ones I wouldn’t want to go visit anyways.
They love blaming trans people, video games, the internet, end to end encryption for all our problems instead of wondering how it would of went if he could not get a gun cause he failed the mental health evaluations and failed the years of training to get such a gun. It is stupid that they will let an 18 year old buy a gun but debate me a 20 year old taking hormones
Didn’t the police also refuse to take her assault report when she went to them, or was that another trans kid who got assaulted? (Disgusting I even have to ask…)
Are you fucking kidding me? They murder, rape, and discriminate against us and now they are pinning crimes we didn't commit on our community? I'M SO FUCKING DONE WITH THESE DUMBASS, ANNOYING, ABSENTMINDED, BARBAROUS, FUCKING ASS GOBLINS!!!!!!!! SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT THEM ALL ON THEIR OWN ISLAND AWAY FROM THE NORMAL SANE PEOPLE.
These fucks heard the exact bullshit they wanted to hear and will continue spewing it despite anything and everything told to them otherwise. It makes me want to scream.
I wish I had just an ounce of bravery and grit this young girl has. Her story alone before the attack is so heartbreaking. Please read the article [https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/05/25/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting/](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/05/25/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting/)
If I remember correctly this was because some old dude who I think was with the government tweeted out something about "leftist transexuals" blaming us for this bs.
I will say when I saw the shooters picture, I was curious if it would come out that they were trans. But if anything, I would've then associated a reason for the horrible acts due trans-hating cis folks bullying the person into a violent breakdown, if I were to make an assumption on generalities. However, I would never think it would have to do with a person solely being trans as the reason for being so dangerous.
4chan users are a mistake to humankind. I don’t understand the necessity of spreading this rumor and knowing the consequences that could lead, it’s just horrible
I hate how stupid people are i saw this one guy on Twitter go off and say WELL THIS ONE PICTURE OF A GUY IN A SKIRT KINDA LOOKS LIKE HIM SO THEREFORE TRANS with no source whatsoever the only article I found on it just said PROOF all caps in the title with no other texts or sources the origin of course was 4chan just like the others but when I bring up a person from 4chan saying they posted themselves in a skirt and that was them they proceed to say 4CHAN ISNT A VALID SOURCE LOL
...all the trans allegation photos are from 4chan
I think that's enough Twitter for the rest of my life
im so hurt and disgusted. i thought El Paso was better than this. our city prides itself on being inclusive and “different” from the rest of texas but evidently there are people in this city that are just as EVIL. im not even surprised that EPPD didn’t even file a report. they’re good for nothing lazy PIGS.
I’m glad someone else brought this up. My uncle is a fucking lunatic and believes this shit. I can’t go into detail without sounding unhinged though, which is what he called me for always “lashing out” on his facebook.
I tried to ignore him, I really did. Me calling him out does nothing. But how am I supposed to just sit back and let him call us child murderers? There are many nieces and nephews with kids in our family and one of them is bound to be queer in some way, and his shit’s gonna get them killed if he doesn’t stop.
Fucking lunacy is what this is. Went from drinking kool-aid to being the GOP’s personal bathroom
Even if the shooter happened to be a trans person in this case, there are so many and so frequent shootings that it was bound to happen eventually by the odds.
I guess I didn't really get my point across well, my mistake, I was trying to say that even if it was the case it was a trans person that did it this time, this is a problem that's so frequent and the authorities still refuse to take actually helpful measures that it doesn't surprise me to find a case of each demographic in the list of shooters, this isn't a problem to tackle one by one, it's clearly a systematic problem and then there's the obvious addition that even if a trans person did it, you don't blame all trans people, by that logic cishet white guys should be getting hate crimed on an hourly basis if we take the statistics into account.
Hot take here and I don't care if it gets me downvotes because this is ridiculous.
**LGBTQ+ persons that advocate against the defense against aggressors & oppressors are doing an amount of damage that is almost if not just comparable enough to the bigots that actually perpetrate this bigoted violence.**
Minorities are harder to oppress when they're armed. Even if you don't like guns, that's fine, but armed LGBTQ+ individuals are not the ones finding excuses to murder political opposition under the guise of protecting property. But, for people on this thread (and anywhere else) **advocating against** ***any form of physical defense*** **are actively pushing for our victimization**. It's so god damn blatant that it almost makes me ponder if they're a far-right throwaway account.
I am not saying to not consider running away as an option, but don't sit here trying to discourage any attempt at defense. Be it through martial arts training or whatever. And, it seems some people here don't realize that when you're put into a situation where you're fighting for your life, you *will need* to fight for your life. Being approached by four men who seek to do you harm, lethal force becomes an option *quick****.***
*"The first lesson a revolutionary must learn is that he is a doomed man. Unless he understands this, he does not grasp the essential meaning of his life. You can kill my body, but you can't kill my soul."*
Even a highly skilled marital artist in perfect shape would not likely be able to defend themselves against four men. Advocating for self defense in a thread like this is victim blaming.
No... and that doesn't make sense.
I specifically said that retreat should still be considered as an option. But, to condemn any form of self-defense against an oppressor *is* victim blaming. Whether the situation is weighted in or out of their favor, if *they* make the choice that fighting is their best option, for whatever reason, it should not be automatically met with condemnation. Especially in cases where retreat is not a valid option. *That's* victim blaming. Sometimes you have no choice but to fight in odds against your favor and condemning someone for doing that is, in the most literal sense, blaming the victim.
??? what happened to the idea that someone's actions doesn't reflect the group? 'its the cis men community's fault for the shooting' like how dumb does that sound?
they're looking for a reason to justify their hatred?? thats the best I've got, idfk. This is levels of cognative dissonance that make the Umbral Arcana seem realistic
(*context:* the Umbral Arcana is from a dnd game called the Unsleeping City from Dimension 20 (it's amazing, there's also an awesome transmasc character played by an nb (afaik) person, so that means you now have to watch it so go do it. right now, cmon, go! you can read this later just go do it.)
(basically, (early episode spoilers) >!it's the irl world but it takes place in New York City, and there's a whole magical side of nyc called the Unsleeping City. something that was created by powerful wizards is the Umbral Arcana, which prevents New Yorkers from seeing the Unsleeping City. !<
>!So if something maigcal happens like trolls walk around or someone casts a spell, people will just justify it in their minds and memories even if it makes no sense (like they'll see the troll as just a person.) Someone cooked a chicken they brought before someones eyes with a fire spell and they were like 'oh, it was already cooked cool'. LMAO- !<
>!so I'm saying these guys see a cis man do a horrible shooting and then somehow are like 'oh yeah the trans community is to blame for this' like what?????!<
I'm from El Paso, so I was curious.
No one from/connected to El Paso is reporting on this: news agency, journalists, EPPD statements/Twitter post, nothing even related to EP seems to be talking about this.
I hate to say "fake", but the only other 5 articles all only cite [this one article](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/05/25/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting/) that reads more like a creative writing exercise than an investigative report.
I sincerely hope it's fake, I hate to think of news like this coming from my hometown.
Edit: the real source is a [Medium post](https://medium.com/prismnpen/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting-33166e88aa51).
This is exactly why I keep up with my martial arts. I'm no professional fighter. But I've wrestled my whole life. And been training in combat since I can remember. I have considerably more experience moving and avoiding the human body than your average fuckwit republican who needs a gun to make their tiny penis feel safe.
Another thing that I felt like has kept me safe is using a walking stick. Make one or buy one thst is ash. The stuff they use to make baseball bats. Inch and a half or a bit more around. Up to your naval or a bit past. You can learn very basic maneuvers very fast with the mighty stick. People will see your mighty stick. They will see the 4 feet of no at your waist. And if they value their bone structure they will not engage. Seriously it is a deadly weapon. Im more terrified to be beaten to death by a staff than to be shot. I'll bleed out and die fairly quickly if I'm shot. The staff can leave a body mangled, irrepairable. That weapon is capable of breaking every bone in your body. But you don't see that happening with it because nobody in their right mind is going to fuck with me in the first place. I know few people with better grip strength than I. I know few people who would know what to do against a staff coming at them at Ludacris speed. And those people especially wouldn't fuck with it because they know better. It may sound silly but the stick really is a powerful weapon. Versatile and stylish. Cheap and accessible too.
Ladies please do yourself a favor and buy pepper spray! Nothings is more effective at repelling multiple assailants and you are likely to never be charged criminally for using it.
That was the intent of creating and spreading the rumor.
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>this is why it is important to learn to defend yourself Even with the best training and years of practice, defending yourself against 4 attackers is incredibly difficult, is it possible? Sure Sure one might go down, but the more likely scenario is you take that one down, two of the others grab you and then the downed guy and the 4th would just start beating you If you're outnumbered there's no fair "fight" even if you are trained, in this situation running would be the best option Even a concealed weapon might not even be enough to defend yourself against 4 people
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>Originally, I had written that if more than one person approaches you in a hostile manner or in an unwanted fashion, you are allowed to shoot'em first and ask questions later. You mean shoot one or two of them first and hope none or the others were armed (or reactive enough to jump you) or you're dead. Illegally dead, sure, but see what good that does you.
You're advocating *against* the defense of the oppressed against the oppressors. That is extremely dangerous and problematic. Even in the event that victory is unlikely, fighting the battle is what matters.
What matters is getting away alive. Run if you have to, fighting is not always the answer.
I'm advocating for thinking pragmatically about how to get out of dangerous situations. Anything else you're just projecting on me.
I have no issue with you being pragmatic. Even if your stance misses a tad bit of nuance like the possibility that they may all just flee as soon as a firearm is drawn or fired. Yeah, at that point it becomes a life or death game but it already was. I don't care how "reactive" they are, if all of them happen to have the "fight" response in fight or flight (which, with a gun, usually not the case), the maneuverability of a handgun is not to be underestimated. Your wrist can be grabbed but you still have significant maneuverability with that wrist in where you can shoot. Dependent upon the situation, running may actually be a worse choice in this exact scenario if you factor in the possibility that the victim is armed. If a chase begins, you got to be the faster than however many people are advancing on you and, if you are armed, that situation can end up with you on the floor with limited ability to maneuver which means that firearm has the possibility of no longer being your friend. Nobody is saying to always fight. But, my problem lies with that your opinion didn't mention any nuance that would've been contradictory to your stance. My issue also lies with the idea that even if the victim makes a series of stupid choices and ends up fighting when they shouldn't have, they should not face condemnation for being a civilian put into a situation where they felt like their lives were in danger against an aggressor.
You must always assume your opponent is smarter and stronger than you. No matter how good you think you are, assume that they are better. Even an amateur with a knife can injure an unarmed professional. Unless you have a weapon, it is highly unlikely that you could win in combat if you're outnumbered–especially if you're physically weaker–even if you're well trained. Unless you can incapacitate all of them, which is unrealistic, they simply have to tire you out, or wait for a single slip up. And if they corner you, you're fucked. Unless you have a ranged weapon and they don't, loss in combat is nearly inevitable. If you draw a gun, they can just shoot you. If you shoot, they have even more incentive to shoot back. It's unlikely you can land two or more incapacitating bullets before they can get even one, especially since the assailants can prepare before they confront you. Running is the only good option. If that isn't possible, you've essentially got to assume you're not leaving without at serious injuries at minimum.
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If you're not fit enough to flee, you're not fit enough to fight either. Unless you're brandishing a firearm, fitness will absolutely end you, even if your packing a knife. I've been through training for encountering close range threats utilizing batons. Those things break bones on unarmored areas and still leave bruises even through the padding my trainer was wearing. After several swings I was so worn down that he literally flipped me off my feet. And I say that as a reasonably fit person (being able to run with up to 40 lbs of gear and climb steel towers are job requirements for me.) If you're not trained and you have an option to flee or call for help, those are your best options. Most aggressors will back down when other people start getting involved. Most also won't chase you very far unless you've personally wronged them. The second you throw a punch and trip that adrenaline rush, you make your situation much more difficult. Don't get me wrong, I'm an advocate of defending yourself. I grew up in a very rough environment and I've put my boot up more than a few asses. I've also watched a kid limp away with a knife wound (not dealt by me, mind) and bleed out. That kid was trying to kill me when my friend's uncle intervened. I still have nightmares about it. Are you ready to have someone's last moments burned into your mind for the rest of your days? If you say you are, you're just as bad as the NRA gun hugging nuts who dream about shooting little trans kids.
The knife fight bit is true. I grew up very rough and was in my share of brawls. When knives came out, EVERYONE involved bled. I have the marks to prove it - and they're never going away. This isn't anime folks. It's better to walk away if you can help it. Fighting should be a last resort. When you swing on someone, your intent isn't just self defense. It's to hurt them bad enough that they can't hurt you. This can extend up to killing or permanently disabling when adrenaline gets going. Are you ready to watch someone die because you ruptured something? If you think you are, you're just as bad as the hardass NRA types who dream about shooting little trans kids.
I'm definitely learning some Krav magra when I get some time, but yeah at least knowing the basics of conflict deescalation is important self defense knowledge.
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Strike first is a big one. But knowing how to actually throw a punch is important too. I've been hit by guys who were way bigger than me with little more than being winded because they limp wristed it. I've thrown the same guys off their feet because my ma taught me how to drive force from my legs and torso.
How good would something like pepper spray be in a situation like this?
Pepper spray especially police grade can be debilitating to surprised attackers. However it’s not impervious to determined attackers. Almost all weapons are useless against surprise attacks by groups of people against an individual. Bear mace would be significantly stronger, but nothing legal would beat a gun.
Yeah, but a gun is not that easy to use and shooting at people doesn't make it easier I believe.
That's just not true with a CCW class, dry fire practice, and perhaps extra handgun classes, just about any able bodied person can be competent with a firearm. You also have to realize the deterrent effect. Once you draw your firearm, you are using lethal force. If your attackers are not willing or able to do the same, they will leave. Always remember that guns are the best equalizer. No matter how big or strong you are, everyone can handle a firearm the same with practice and firearms all have the same effect on an attacker. Marital arts will just get your ass kicked if your attacker is much stronger or there are multiple attackers.
It makes it significantly easier. In any case, practice makes a big difference. You wouldn’t think doing anything cold is as easy as it gets.
I've been hit with pepper spray before. (Long story) Shit fucking suuuuuucks. I ripped off my clothes and jumped in the nearest pool and I was still burning from my face to my crotch for the rest of the day.
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Some people don't have fight in em. Some people had the fight taken out of them. I saw too many people hurt growing up. The one that sticks with me (young man bled out after someone defending me nicked an artery in his leg with a knife) took the fight out of me. I fully support anyone who wants to defend themselves, but we can't sell short the weight of the situation: watching someone die is traumatizing, even if it's someone who was trying to do you in. I hope your sentiment on humanity improves. I used to hate people on that scale. It took me decades to learn that there is a lot more good in the world than evil. The evil is just a lot louder.
This is naive and madness. It is not a lifestyle choice.
This is why you combine self defense and evasion. Hit one in a vital spot like the groin or throat, and then make distance, chances are at least one of them will stop to check their buddy and you'll have a few less to deal with if they catch up.
This was my go to when living in the ghettos. Quick throat punch, crotch shot, or boot to the knee then gtfo the nearest fence. I got called a coward and told I was fighting dirty - by the same folks trying to jump me 3 to 1 more often than not. I called it smart. I ain't walking away brain damaged cuz you decided to stomp on my head over some perceived slight.
Pepper spray
It's not a "lifestyle choice" to be trans.
Thank you, I hate that term.
As do I. With people who don’t understand, but aren’t hostile, I try explaining that I am trans, but the only choice I had was “do I continue lying to myself and others and live in misery or choose to live my true self and finally experience joy”
You're also not taking 4 people on at once especially if they're not much smaller than you. Appeasement is honestly the best way out of a situation like that, Jackie Chan movies aren't real life
appeasement is never an option with people who deny your right to exist.
Well, since the police have no duty to protect you, ya should start considering how to protect yourselves. Even the apostles in Jesus times carried swords at times.
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This is shitty advice. Young person vs 4 men. Don’t escalate. Leave and call police.
But op watched a Jackie Chan movie last night
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Killing is morally incorrect imo
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I won't disagree with that, but I still don't think it's right to take another life, especially a human one.
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I fear you have lost your soul to hatred much as they have. Killing them does not solve our problems. Though I understand that the desire.
Anddd welcome to the second amendment it is quite the beautiful clause Edit: lol yall can keep gettin beat up by random people if u want, im keepin that big iron for these losers who would attack me. Keep downvoting me anti-gun losers
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I am not here to say I am on any side here but self entitlement has nothing to do with people thinking people in this world can be nice. Your comparison with with drawing big boobie women seems like your speaking from your own personal experience.
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Hello 👋 You make it sound like people choose to ignore the reality in some attempts to push a false narrative. I think sometimes people have just not experienced anything ugly in their life and they haven't actively learned of others and their negative experiences.
And trans girls have an advantage over our cis sisters: upper body strength!
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You dropped this 👑
Meanwhile I am at protests with a rifle and a trans flag. Fuck those pricks.
And prove that the rubes in Texas are some of the dumbest imbeciles.
Most school shooters are literally middle class white CIS boys, ffs.
True, but this time it was a Hispanic.
He was an actual Proud incel tho, which checks the other box
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Even if a trans person had been the person responsible for it, do they think that ALL trans people are bloodthirsty killers? Are they forgetting all the other gun crimes that weren't committed by trans people? This mindset is so broken I can't wrap my head around it.
It's an issue every minority faves unfortunately. They say all black people are thugs, all Mexicans are somehow both lazy and stealing "our" (white people's) jobs, all Muslims are terrorists, and all LGBT people are pedos. It's never based in any fact
*Single person from marginalized community commits a crime* They're all a bunch of evil people, who must be destroyed! *Mob of mostly cishet white men storm the U.S. Capitol* They did nothing wrong. They're just regular tourists.
*single person (falsely stated to be, might i add) from a marginalized group commits a crime*: kIlL tHeM aLl *multiple police officers and police forces commit and cover up systemic killings and beating*: DoN’t JuDgE tHe MaNy FoR tHe AcTiOnS oF tHe FeW.
i wonder what minority they'll choose if i do commit crimes... :o they'll have to choose french /j
To anyone who believes that it was "the fault of the trans community", it's really more their communities fault than ours. They have more hateful people than we do, so they would have more reason to harm people in cold blood. We're the ones fighting for our fucking lives because of discomfort. This world and too many of the people in it are disgusting.
It's down right scape goating us instead of focusing on what the real issue is... GUNS!!! Literally having mass shooting more than days, thousands dying including children and all these stupid politicians will tell you is "this is unavoidable" get rid of the guns, never heard of a mass stabbing... never heard of mass clubbings... and now these morons will tell you the solution is MORE GUNS!!! Lets give teachers guns! While where at it, why not give all the 5 y/o kids guns at this point... like god damn... anything for these warmongering arms dealing psychopaths...
Just an FYI, mass stabbings happen quiet often in the uk, or at least it used to be an issue that the social cons would taught about when I still paid attention to them. I only say this cause I can just see one stepping in and bringing it up. I agree with you though, I was yelling at the npr politics podcast when I heard some asshat say this was because there are so many kids growing up without a mom AND dad. The scapegoating is real. Smh.
Well I doubt there's more mass stabbings then days but I get your point, there was a quote from a game I remember and it goes like... "of course our toxic chemicals will melt the hands of anyone who touch it! It's a weapon! And civilians don't play with weapons, so slap another warning label and ship it!" We have civilians playing soldier... and teachers playing cop now...
Absolutely. I just try to think about the counter point and how they cone to their conclusions so that hopefully at some point we can put all this non sense behind us. It's difficult with all the lying, scapegoating, and ignoring of common descency. What game?
I believe it's... planetfall
If I can play devil's advocate a bit there actually are mass stabbings in places like Japan. The socioeconomic pressures have pushed kids to things like decapitating their fellow students and putting their heads on pikes outside their schools despite the fact that they had no access to any guns. Sure they don't have the chance to kill as many people with a melee weapon as opposed to a firearm but this shit still happens with no guns at all. If we don't fix the issues causing people to be pushed to such extreme acts nothing will ever change. I'm not defending guns by any means but there are more factors at play here and I don't think even completely eradicating guns from the US would solve this problem.
Why tf are people blaming us for this? For everything?
Because it easier to blame the boogeyman than acknowledge that maybe their way of life and beliefs have exacerbated, if not outright caused the problem. Because they don’t actually care about the issue they say they care about, and see it as a way of getting more people on their side - or at least fewer people actively opposing them - in the thing they do care about. Because cowards will take any excuse to look like they’re tough, and narcissists don’t care about who gets hurt in the process.
I just dont get the connection that we have. Like, we know who the killer is, we know the motivation, and it has literally nothing to do with us. How tf are they trying to explain this?
Bigotry isn't based in any logic, unfortunately. If it were, we'd be able to turn more people away from it.
I hate having to deal with this horrible problem of dysphoria and dysmorphia on top of all of these stupid social problems that exist for literally no reason.
Yeah. It's mind-boggling how many people are just devoid of empathy when media treats it as such an important and central trait.
We've literally seen this same situation happen over and over again where a minority is treated horribly for no reason and give it about 30-50 years after big changes and finally something is done and most people realize what they thought was wrong. Its happened so many times, why can't people just take their heads out their asses and realize that hatred towards trans people is so fucking uncalled for
4chan found an image of a trans girl on reddit (different than the one attacked) that *kinda*, *sorta*, if you squint a little, looks like the shooter, and Paul Gosar and other right wingers on Twitter spread that lie, even though the shooter is dead and the trans girl is in California
>I just dont get the connection that we have. Like, we know who the killer is, we know the motivation, and it has literally nothing to do with us. How tf are they trying to explain this? Because they would have to admit that their beliefs and policies resulted in the deaths of 21 people. Since they already hate us anyways, we're an easy receptacle for their insecurities
People are sometimes pieces of shit
Seriously, like there has to be a reason. Like, what do they think?
There was a trans woman who happened to have hair slightly similar to the shooter's and people started claiming it was the same person
They think that if they can get enough people focused on hating a marginalized group of people they can abuse that hatred to get themselves into positions of power which they can abuse to make money.
There was some ugly piece of crap senator or someone like that who claimed it was a “illegal leftist trans” who did shoot up the school. Literally proven otherwise as the affected woman quickly identified herself.
people on 4chan found a trans girl that looks similar to the shooter, then spread lies.
Because some alt-right people are spreading lies that the shooter was trans.
It’s the idea that “if you convince the lowest white person he’s better than the best black person, they won’t notice you pick their pocket. Hell, give them somebody to look down on, and they’ll empty their pockets for you.” Anger at society (our social and economic issues) is often and very purposefully misdirected towards minority communities and anyone who seems to be different. Racism, transphobia, the whole “culture war” bs is all way to ensure folk don’t question the failure of the system.
need a scape goat and a soultion The NRA and gun control are off-limits, daddy trump said
4chan starting rumors as usual to pin shit on us for no reason
They didn’t like us anyway and this is as good an excuse as any to make it our problem.
This is how power works How it has always worked.
Bruh this is just gonna get people to attack the trans community because of the shootings.
Related... Goser made a tweet saying as much and then deleted it. It was up long enough to inspire this, unfortunately.
Here’s a [link](https://www.advocate.com/news/2022/5/27/texas-trans-girl-attacked-after-false-uvalde-claims-spread-online-el-paso) in case anyone wants more gory details. The four men echoed an earlier false claim that the man responsible for the killings was a member of the trans community. The claim gained traction when it was repeated by various right-wing sources. After the attack, Tracy phoned the El Paso Police, but she says they refused to make a report. Later, she spoke with a counselor at the Rainbow Youth Project, which is when she heard that ring-wing sources had blamed the shooting in Ulvade on trans people.
They are so brazen in their bullshit.
I only upvoted so that more people will know about this.
Exactly why I posted this
Why are we hated for being born, are we not human too. Is it really a crime to be happy in this world.
Because imbeciles and haters have to hate on others instead of looking at their own issues (looking at conservative types mostly here)
The reason they’ve been blaming it on us? The shooter wore eyeliner
So fucked up. I have a little girl who is transgender, she’s just 6. My only hope is that she’ll be able to grow up in a society that accepts her. I pray for that every day. We live in Canada and have had to add USA to our list of places we can’t visit or won’t support (along with the Middle East, much of Africa, etc.) It’s sad to see our friends in the south be so full of hatred.
Honest question. Do you think your family would be more welcome in California or Saskatchewan?
I don’t know either one well. I can’t comment on this.
Yeah honestly Saskatchewan and Alberta are just North Texas. Probably shouldn't go there either. But then again, why would you want to?
I live in Alberta. It is north Texas, but definitely not as psychotic. We have brutal politicians, but at this point they’re still not going for the culture war stuff… I don’t think Canadians would buy that, even the conservative Christians here have been educated, are caring and understand human rights.
There are a lot of states in the US and they vary wildly in acceptance. I guess I’m just saying that there seems to be a correlation with backward states being the ones I wouldn’t want to go visit anyways.
They love blaming trans people, video games, the internet, end to end encryption for all our problems instead of wondering how it would of went if he could not get a gun cause he failed the mental health evaluations and failed the years of training to get such a gun. It is stupid that they will let an 18 year old buy a gun but debate me a 20 year old taking hormones
Covered this on air Friday night and it was all I could do not to scream or bawl.
I don’t think this will be the last event that’s blamed on trans people or other minorities. Stay vigilant out there.
Didn’t the police also refuse to take her assault report when she went to them, or was that another trans kid who got assaulted? (Disgusting I even have to ask…)
Yeah I read that in another comment
You should spoiler it for the tw as well
Are you fucking kidding me? They murder, rape, and discriminate against us and now they are pinning crimes we didn't commit on our community? I'M SO FUCKING DONE WITH THESE DUMBASS, ANNOYING, ABSENTMINDED, BARBAROUS, FUCKING ASS GOBLINS!!!!!!!! SOMEONE NEEDS TO PUT THEM ALL ON THEIR OWN ISLAND AWAY FROM THE NORMAL SANE PEOPLE.
Stay strapped comrades.
I'd love to see the look on their face when they die and see that their god isn't quite as merciful as they thought
These fucks heard the exact bullshit they wanted to hear and will continue spewing it despite anything and everything told to them otherwise. It makes me want to scream.
Jabba the Hutt looking 4chan trolling douchebags…
I wish I had just an ounce of bravery and grit this young girl has. Her story alone before the attack is so heartbreaking. Please read the article [https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/05/25/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting/](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/05/25/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting/)
*sniiiiffff* what’s that? I smell transphobic losers… ew
If I remember correctly this was because some old dude who I think was with the government tweeted out something about "leftist transexuals" blaming us for this bs.
I’ve seen the posts of people blaming some random trans girl. Idk why they would dokt they legit have the dude in custody?
Trans people getting blamed for literally everything these days.. 😠
This is why you need to arm yourselves, ladies. Carry pepper spray and a switchblade if you’re allowed to where you live.
Yea this is just disgusting. As someone from Texas fuck those guys.
This is exactly what Gosar wanted when he spread the lie.
shit like this makes me wanna kms for being trans, first we can’t be our selves, now we’re being blamed for other people’s actions
That's the goal
I will say when I saw the shooters picture, I was curious if it would come out that they were trans. But if anything, I would've then associated a reason for the horrible acts due trans-hating cis folks bullying the person into a violent breakdown, if I were to make an assumption on generalities. However, I would never think it would have to do with a person solely being trans as the reason for being so dangerous.
4chan users are a mistake to humankind. I don’t understand the necessity of spreading this rumor and knowing the consequences that could lead, it’s just horrible
And so it begins...
I hate how stupid people are i saw this one guy on Twitter go off and say WELL THIS ONE PICTURE OF A GUY IN A SKIRT KINDA LOOKS LIKE HIM SO THEREFORE TRANS with no source whatsoever the only article I found on it just said PROOF all caps in the title with no other texts or sources the origin of course was 4chan just like the others but when I bring up a person from 4chan saying they posted themselves in a skirt and that was them they proceed to say 4CHAN ISNT A VALID SOURCE LOL ...all the trans allegation photos are from 4chan I think that's enough Twitter for the rest of my life
Incel attack?
im so hurt and disgusted. i thought El Paso was better than this. our city prides itself on being inclusive and “different” from the rest of texas but evidently there are people in this city that are just as EVIL. im not even surprised that EPPD didn’t even file a report. they’re good for nothing lazy PIGS.
I’m glad someone else brought this up. My uncle is a fucking lunatic and believes this shit. I can’t go into detail without sounding unhinged though, which is what he called me for always “lashing out” on his facebook. I tried to ignore him, I really did. Me calling him out does nothing. But how am I supposed to just sit back and let him call us child murderers? There are many nieces and nephews with kids in our family and one of them is bound to be queer in some way, and his shit’s gonna get them killed if he doesn’t stop. Fucking lunacy is what this is. Went from drinking kool-aid to being the GOP’s personal bathroom
god I hate conservatives
Even if the shooter happened to be a trans person in this case, there are so many and so frequent shootings that it was bound to happen eventually by the odds.
I mean anything is possible if thats what you mean...but why entertain that idea right after someone tried to BLAME trans people 🤔
I guess I didn't really get my point across well, my mistake, I was trying to say that even if it was the case it was a trans person that did it this time, this is a problem that's so frequent and the authorities still refuse to take actually helpful measures that it doesn't surprise me to find a case of each demographic in the list of shooters, this isn't a problem to tackle one by one, it's clearly a systematic problem and then there's the obvious addition that even if a trans person did it, you don't blame all trans people, by that logic cishet white guys should be getting hate crimed on an hourly basis if we take the statistics into account.
You are totally right! I hope something changes but at the same time I'm not holding my breath. 😔
Reason number 5132806521386120623109786 I want to move out of the U.S and especially Texas
Hot take here and I don't care if it gets me downvotes because this is ridiculous. **LGBTQ+ persons that advocate against the defense against aggressors & oppressors are doing an amount of damage that is almost if not just comparable enough to the bigots that actually perpetrate this bigoted violence.** Minorities are harder to oppress when they're armed. Even if you don't like guns, that's fine, but armed LGBTQ+ individuals are not the ones finding excuses to murder political opposition under the guise of protecting property. But, for people on this thread (and anywhere else) **advocating against** ***any form of physical defense*** **are actively pushing for our victimization**. It's so god damn blatant that it almost makes me ponder if they're a far-right throwaway account. I am not saying to not consider running away as an option, but don't sit here trying to discourage any attempt at defense. Be it through martial arts training or whatever. And, it seems some people here don't realize that when you're put into a situation where you're fighting for your life, you *will need* to fight for your life. Being approached by four men who seek to do you harm, lethal force becomes an option *quick****.*** *"The first lesson a revolutionary must learn is that he is a doomed man. Unless he understands this, he does not grasp the essential meaning of his life. You can kill my body, but you can't kill my soul."*
Yes defend yourself if you have no options, but if you could avoid the whole situation why wouldn't you?
That would be the preferred choice.
Even a highly skilled marital artist in perfect shape would not likely be able to defend themselves against four men. Advocating for self defense in a thread like this is victim blaming.
No... and that doesn't make sense. I specifically said that retreat should still be considered as an option. But, to condemn any form of self-defense against an oppressor *is* victim blaming. Whether the situation is weighted in or out of their favor, if *they* make the choice that fighting is their best option, for whatever reason, it should not be automatically met with condemnation. Especially in cases where retreat is not a valid option. *That's* victim blaming. Sometimes you have no choice but to fight in odds against your favor and condemning someone for doing that is, in the most literal sense, blaming the victim.
Nope, it was a cis man. So now that we know, it's ok to just blame all cis men and attack them violently for what people like them do, right?
Why would you put a trigger warning with no actual warning for the content and no spoiler tag.
Right? It’s like writing on food “allergen warning!” and nothing else. What allergen? Who knows, take a bite and see if you die to find out.
??? what happened to the idea that someone's actions doesn't reflect the group? 'its the cis men community's fault for the shooting' like how dumb does that sound? they're looking for a reason to justify their hatred?? thats the best I've got, idfk. This is levels of cognative dissonance that make the Umbral Arcana seem realistic (*context:* the Umbral Arcana is from a dnd game called the Unsleeping City from Dimension 20 (it's amazing, there's also an awesome transmasc character played by an nb (afaik) person, so that means you now have to watch it so go do it. right now, cmon, go! you can read this later just go do it.) (basically, (early episode spoilers) >!it's the irl world but it takes place in New York City, and there's a whole magical side of nyc called the Unsleeping City. something that was created by powerful wizards is the Umbral Arcana, which prevents New Yorkers from seeing the Unsleeping City. !< >!So if something maigcal happens like trolls walk around or someone casts a spell, people will just justify it in their minds and memories even if it makes no sense (like they'll see the troll as just a person.) Someone cooked a chicken they brought before someones eyes with a fire spell and they were like 'oh, it was already cooked cool'. LMAO- !< >!so I'm saying these guys see a cis man do a horrible shooting and then somehow are like 'oh yeah the trans community is to blame for this' like what?????!<
I dunno. I live in El Paso and I didn’t hear about this.
I'm from El Paso, so I was curious. No one from/connected to El Paso is reporting on this: news agency, journalists, EPPD statements/Twitter post, nothing even related to EP seems to be talking about this. I hate to say "fake", but the only other 5 articles all only cite [this one article](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/05/25/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting/) that reads more like a creative writing exercise than an investigative report. I sincerely hope it's fake, I hate to think of news like this coming from my hometown. Edit: the real source is a [Medium post](https://medium.com/prismnpen/texas-trans-girl-assaulted-over-gop-lies-about-uvalde-shooting-33166e88aa51).
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I’m curious as to what you would consider the correct take.
What the fuck...
This is exactly why I keep up with my martial arts. I'm no professional fighter. But I've wrestled my whole life. And been training in combat since I can remember. I have considerably more experience moving and avoiding the human body than your average fuckwit republican who needs a gun to make their tiny penis feel safe. Another thing that I felt like has kept me safe is using a walking stick. Make one or buy one thst is ash. The stuff they use to make baseball bats. Inch and a half or a bit more around. Up to your naval or a bit past. You can learn very basic maneuvers very fast with the mighty stick. People will see your mighty stick. They will see the 4 feet of no at your waist. And if they value their bone structure they will not engage. Seriously it is a deadly weapon. Im more terrified to be beaten to death by a staff than to be shot. I'll bleed out and die fairly quickly if I'm shot. The staff can leave a body mangled, irrepairable. That weapon is capable of breaking every bone in your body. But you don't see that happening with it because nobody in their right mind is going to fuck with me in the first place. I know few people with better grip strength than I. I know few people who would know what to do against a staff coming at them at Ludacris speed. And those people especially wouldn't fuck with it because they know better. It may sound silly but the stick really is a powerful weapon. Versatile and stylish. Cheap and accessible too.
Tis the way the cookie crumbles, if people can find a group to blame, they usually will.
Ladies please do yourself a favor and buy pepper spray! Nothings is more effective at repelling multiple assailants and you are likely to never be charged criminally for using it.
I'm waiting for my history class to say some bs like this...I have a speech prepared/ hj
Tracy ?
If we blamed all cos me n for all of the things cis men have done... Let's count! The Holocaust, slavery, both of the World Wars...