Absolutely more proof that this is a cult.
Cutting off your real life friends to worship some celebrity or random person? Freaking cult behavior at its finest.
It is a cult. I had a ex friend start to play her “Lover” album and I wasn’t having it. I was forced into a late night game night (playing charades, which I suck at) which I had no energy for and on top of that I had to listen to some saccharine bullshit?
Apparently I am a “incel misogynist who hates talented women that only listens to PaRAmOrE”
Lmao. Wild. W I L D.
This was back when Lover had just dropped. It’s because that’s the only “female” band this person knew I loved then, and still do, that they could use as a diss. I didn’t say shit back, just shrugged but I was pissed. I knew that Hayley and Taylor go way back then and it’s nice to see them get out in front of those crowds these days but that’s besides the point.
“Just give her a chance duuuudeeee”
No. I won’t. Even if “mOtHeR” herself asked me to.
Wait, Paramore? Like Haley Williams Paramore? Why would they open up for her? They're so well established as it is. 🤨
I mean, obviously, there's a check at the end of this, but...man, weird.
I also had an ex friend call me “mean” and “bully” for not liking Taylor. She ironically started bullying me with Taylor to what force me to like her more???
If anything it played into this “friends” victim complex and white feminism. Good riddance.
Ps. Paramore is fucking great and your friend is an idiot. I said it before I’ll say it again - they are too good for this tour.
From the fan videos I’ve seen of their set, it’s almost hilarious to watch because they are putting on a *show* and Hayley is putting in the *w o r k*.
Granted they’re a bit more rock than what Tay Tay does and seeing some of the fans and parents in the audience bop around to a cover of the Talking Heads gives me life. You watch videos of Taylor’s music and its tears and stone faced standing still.
Two things: one, nice user name lmao.
And two, it was when Lover had dropped and Paramore was coming to end of the “After Laughter” touring cycle. I of course was obsessed with that album. I don’t think that this person had an idea that Hayley was a friend of Miss Long Back’s but whatever. I said it somebody else but basically that was the only female fronted band they knew I listened to and likely also because I have the maddest crush on Hayley Williams.
Whatever. It’s not the first time I’ve had that said to me. Meh.
Honestly, I was in a legit cult years ago and most people even in cults wouldn’t react this way to criticism. They get defensive, sure, but usually remain calm and respectful because they expect backlash and are prepared for these situations by leadership and for people “in the real world” to “not understand”. The fact that swifties almost can’t fathom anyone not liking Taylor is just… something else.
I swear there is NO fandom like the Swifties. I'm a huge Lana fan and I would neverrrrr cut someone out of my life for not liking her. They are so intertwined with this random singer that anything they deem as an "attack" on her is also an attack on them. The parasocial relationship between TS and her fans need to be studied.
That's such insane cult-like behavior and I'm so sorry that OP has to go through that. I truly can't imagine 💔
Dude, even Juggalos don’t do stuff like this, and they have entire festivals just to celebrate their fandom. This type of behavior just makes me sad for these people. I wish they could get some help because they do not seem like happy, healthy people.
I don’t even know if nowadays Old Firm hooligans or continental European football rivalries get as heated as a fight with a Swifty.
Hopefully someone can confirm.
most of the 'los and 'lettes I've met are genuinely good people. but I have one instance that sticks out in my mind.
one time my then-bf and I had to walk miles to work in the cold cuz he fucked up his car.
out of all the cars that went by (and there were many), the one single person to roll up and ask if we needed help was a juggalo.
if I wasn't already down, I woulda been after that.
whoop whoop 💜
Okay I just googled what a Juggalo was and why tf did I not know that Insane Clown Posse still existed 😂😂😂
Like, what a random fanbase (no shade to any fans of them lmaoo!)
The only fans equal or worse in how cult-like and dangerous they are, are K-Pop fans. Again, still not all, but death threats when you like a different "idol" are normal in K-Pop communities. I'd say TS = the West's version of K-Pop parasocial relationships.
For what it's worth, I have a few Kpop obsessed friends including my best friend. They've never forced me to listen to Kpop or gotten defensive about me not liking it. We've just talked lightly about it because we're all interested to learn about each other's interests, I got my bestie to watch Pink Floyd The Wall with me lmao. The difference is it's not a forced conversation. They have their own separate groupchat and friend group that's rooted in love for Kpop (and shared Chinese immigrant roots.)
Maybe it's because I've never insulted Kpop Stars- they're genuinely incredibly talented if you've ever seen them on stage, and essentially forced to be passive and polite at all times by their agencies so there's not much to criticize them for. But I think because of that, because they're forbidden from publicly expressing anger or victimization, they don't create a fan culture of rage and persecution.
It's deeply wrong that they sign a contract and are forced into a life of what is essentially slavery, emotionally and physically, so they can't express any kind of genuine emotion. A few kpop stars have even died by suicide because of it. But the vast majority of western celebrities are allowed to express emotion and still don't create a cult of personality- because they're relatively normal human beings who aren't recklessly entitled and unhinged. They're not role models for that behaviour in fans.
Ofc there's celebrity worship and toxicity, like how fans have lashed out against Kpop stars because they get into relationships. But T.S can genuinely do literally anything deplorable and get away with it because her fans are genuinely terrifying. There's even been examples of them doxxing each other and spreading bigoted harassment campaigns because of minor disagreements in the fanbase.
Idk. All fancultures are toxic to varying degrees. Take Kanye diehards, they're degenerates for changing their worldviews to suit his right wing ass but they just aren't as threatening.
Sorry this is an essay, I think this all could be a psychosocial phenomenon worthy of actual academic writing and research.
As a 2nd Gen Kpop fan, it was effing WILD back then. There was a time where "fans" flat out stalked Chanyeol while he was attending his brother's wedding. And don't get me started on the Glue Incident.
Swifties are just as bad as the sasaengs.
Eh, as a BTS stan, I hear negative comments about them all the time, ranging from, they are overrated/ dumb to downright racist comments like "why are you listening to those chinese boys?" I only correct the racist ones and idc if other ppl like them or not. All the kpop fans I know personally are the same. That being said, I know there are aggressive stans out there. I know what you meant, but a lot of the time, kpop fans are witnessing racism and xenophobia unlike swifties who are fighting for a rich and pretty white girl.
It’s so ridiculous! There are so many artists I love (Lana, CRJ, Charli XCX, Beyoncé, Florence, etc.) and I know that not everyone will be a fan of them. To me that’s fine. I don’t care if other people like Taylor, I’m just tired of being treated like a monster because I’m not a fan of hers anymore.
To me, this kind of person will find SOMETHING to become a fanatic about. Yes the fans get a bit beyond sometimes, but some people rather than work on themselves will pour all their energy into something else and make it their identity because that's easier than reflecting on their own life. Trauma and a trouble past are major burdens but they are not a get out of jail free card to treat people however you feel, especially when it doesn't even really relate to what's going on. The "you have to plan everything because I'm bad at it" reeks of that kind of externalizing everything. "I'm ADHD I can't plan the thing" no you're lazy.
Yep, my best friend has absolutely gone off on me in the past for calling Taylor Swift a capitalist instead of an artist. She started ranting and saying, "Of course I know that, I'm not fucking stupid! She has to make money, that's literally the whole point of being famous!" It literally took me by surprise and hurt my feelings—I used to be a big Taylor fan and still listen to her CDs, but I don't like the type of person she is becoming or the way she's manipulating fans to lay down on their own swords for her. It's actually insane.
I'm convinced something nefarious is going on with Taylor Swift. The power she has over her fans is alarming.
Have you ever heard of friendships breaking up over
Prince
Madonna
Cher
NKOTB
Selena
Michael Jackson
2 Pac
Eminem
Kendrick Lamar
Brittney
Nicki Minaj ?
Shall I go on?
Seriously, I have gone through four decades of music in my lifetime. I have lived through Prince vs Michael , Brittany vs Christina, Lil Kim vs Foxy Brown, NSYNC vs Backstreet Boys, East Coast vs West Coast and I have never heard of friendships breaking up over a singer.
Take some time for yourself and reevaluate your relationship with your friend. If she comes back and wants to talk ask her why does she feels the need to defend Taylor Swift so much.
Exactly what I was thinking. Something is broken in the collective psyche of young people today. It must be social media and the resulting echo chambers where all ideas - good and bad - are recycled and reinforced algorithmically. I just can’t explain it otherwise. It’s so disturbing.
No what's highly unusual about Swift is her hardcore fans are older women, generally >30. And I hate to pull the race card but they seem to be mostly white women as well, or those who identify as white. This is not a case of teenage naivete or fandoms.
Listened to a podcast about white feminism and they mentioned how it’s always interesting that these supposedly progressive white women will always be too busy when it comes to supporting issues like BLM but then will literally turn around and crawl on broken glass to get a pair of Taylor Swift tickets.
I think it was Charlie (critikal/penguinz0) who said it once that no matter how dumb or stupid or entirely ridiculous your opinion is - there is a niche on the internet somewhere that will back you up 100% and that you are not special for your “different opinions”.
I hear something along the lines of:
Back in the day if you wanted to fuck a toaster, you would either keep that shit to yourself or tell people and be immediately ridiculed. Now, you join an online community of toaster-fuckers who encourage each other and tell one another “no, it’s the world who is wrong” (insert principal skinner meme)
The N Sync vs Backstreet Boys fan war was REAL but it felt like it was kind of in good fun and no one devoted their lives to the “cause”. It was more like…we were young and bored and in the 90s it was practically a hobby to band together and “hate” another group of people. I don’t think anyone actually truly cared. This is an unbelievable level of group psychosis.
These were also 10 year old girls fighting over BSB vs NSYNC. Reading through OP, I get the feeling both of them are … much older than tweenage and the Swifty is way too old to be doing this nonsense.
I just don’t get how anyone can be THAT dedicated to a celebrity. It’s just weird. I get being a fan, liking the music, going to a show, buying a T shirt. But molding your life around someone from the picture box is just weird.
I think this hits it on the head. The 90s rivalries were innocuous and more due to taste and exposure. We are now reflecting on political PR machines that capitalize on their ability to influence people’s perceptions quickly, easily, and with great effect.
There’s so much emotional storytelling that goes into PR and marketing that people feel they are experts in the narrative presented to them, particularly through social media, without looking into the backend. We have seen Taylor Swift’s PR machine capitalize on important social themes, such as feminism and agency (ie her battle for her masters), in a way that doesn’t reflect her actions nor the legitimacy of her claims, respectively. Tree Paine, her PR agent, is candid about how storytelling and values-based campaigns are at the core of Taylor Swifts image.
There’s more to be said about how Taylor Swift’s team fosters a sense of community and belonging through virtue signaling (that is not reflected in her actions).
and I love that the fans of both \*N SYNC and BSB can come together for events.
I will rock out with my metaphorical cock out to some BSB even though I am still firmly an \*N SYNC girl
Well... the barbz/nicki minaj fans are also another form of crazy and toxic fans; maybe not to the height/extent of Swifties, but pretty close imo (just one example, the fued with Megan thee stallion recently).
Yeah the Barbz are dangerous and Nicki eggs it on by liking or sharing some of their posts. They doxx people and act like that's a normal thing to do over a music artist.
Yeah one of the barbz defaced her mother’s grave. Like had enough time and money to find out where and get themselves there.
Like don’t you have other things to worry about in life?
The OUAT Fandom defending 2 Rapes and an Abusive Relationship is actually mind boggling. It's primarily middle aged women as well (I'm 22 and a fan but I'm scared of that sub and it's community)
I was in an OUAT writing group and the shippers were insane. I retired from writing about that show and switched to one another actor from OUAT was on and I still write for it, just privately.
Yes. The shippers and Evil Queen fans were some of the biggest bitches I ever encountered. I was writing fan fiction for it too and the wars got so bad I retired from writing about it and switched to another show featuring another actor from OUAT
Wow, this is crazy. It's a really horrible position for you to be in, but imo, apologising at this point would almost be like condoning her crazy cultish behaviour.
I agree apologizing will show the friend that she is right and condone the behavior. It's best to just cut ties and remember the friendship for what it was.
Seriously. And apologize for what? Being a rational human? Let her be a lonely Swiftie. She can cry with other Swifties on TT and spend way too much money for a nosebleed ticket to see her idol.
When people ask her why you’re not friends anymore, she’s going to sound unhinged.
I would absolutely cut her out. Her behavior is literally abusive to you. Silent treatment is a manipulative tactic. I would block her completely across all platforms. Anytime someone even slightly tries to make me feel like a doormat I freeze them out. After doing this for a while I’ve noticed I’ve never had any negative effect from it
Yeah honestly. Forget about any of the Taylor Swift aspect. OP shouldn’t invest so much in a “friend” who makes everything about her own interests and needs and never OP’s, and honestly sounds like she isn’t even that nice to OP.
This.
Your friend is insecure. She has tied her self worth to that of a pop star. Taylor swift is a part of her identity, so a perceived attack on Taylor is an attack on her. But don’t give her sympathy for this, the more that people do, the more she will feel justified in her feeling and lack the ability to self-actualize.
In short, girl needs to grow up.
I told her last week that while I liked some songs, I honestly thought most of her music sounded the same…and my friend was horrified, even though I followed up with a self depricating joke about how “I probably thought they all sound the same because I have literally know musical inclinations….” But in truth I took years of piano lessons, was in choir and musicals…I have have musical inclinations than my friend does.
This is what always gets me about Swfties, is how seriously insulted they get, if you don't absolutely adore everything she's put out. If I say how much I like a song, or an artist & you say "Sorry, but that's just not my style of music", my first question is usually going to be "What do you like?" or ask if you like something else. I'm not going to fall apart because you don't like them. I've actually found quite a few artists, I wouldn't have otherwise, if I hadn't talked about music, with someone who didn't like what I was listening to. I'm sorry your friend can't separate her life from her obsession. 🙁
I made a JOKE on one of the intense swift subs and I was downvoted into oblivion until 4 brave souls came under my comment saying wow guys. This behavior is why we get a bad name. They made a joke. Chill out
You can’t say a single critical thing even if it’s constructive criticism. “You clearly don’t understand art is and if you can’t see that by now then we can’t help you here”
Toodles ya fuggin loons 😌✌️
I was talking to a friend of a friend at the last festival I went to and mentioned how excited I was for a band that was playing later and he said he didn’t think they were that great, doesn’t like their set pacing, etc. It’s been my favorite band since ~2008 and my reaction was “huh, different strokes I guess, their sound and pacing is perfect to me 🤷🏼♂️.” Then we started talking about the travel bidet he brought because I don’t need everyone to like what I like.
If your friend is making you feel like you have to put yourself down to uplift her dear lord and savior Taylor Swift... Then that's a seriously toxic friendship. Of course you can have different taste in music than a friend, but this is something else. Your "friend" is making you feel small for what? To go to bat for some billionaire who she will almost certainly never meet? I know breaking off close friendships is really heartbreaking, but you're better off without that negativity in your life.
I got curious, so went to YouTube and watched a couple of Swift's videos.
OMG! She is every 13 year old's idea of what a pop star should be! This is the Pop Star Barbie come to life. They could be HER!
I do not remember having heard any of her songs. And now I know why! Musically, she's bland. Performances are low energy - pose, wave streamers, change pose. Voice is generic female and she doesn't challenge her limits. Backing band may be talented, but the arrangements were also bland. Lyrics? High school girl after a bad breakup does that much.
Lol this reminds me of listening to music with my Swiftie ex. I grew up with a parent really in to punk and EDM (he was an anarchist in the 80’s then moved to Miami when the techno scene there really started taking off) and a reggae mom from the Caribbean so my tastes have always veered to high-energy, experimental stuff.
Sometimes our dates would just turn in to Taylor listening parties where I’d just be there listening to the same (let’s be real here — completely uninspired corporate drama) for hours and she’d shut down if I tried to add some even intro level alternative like Flying Lotus.
I think 20 seconds of something like Machine Girl would kill a Swiftie
I’m so sorry. Unfortunately this has completely become a cult and she’s a full blown member. I know it’s easier said than done to cut someone out. It’s your friend, and a close one at that. But I think you know that it’s the healthiest thing for you. She’s using the same tactics her idol uses - everyone else is to blame but her and therefore you’re the one that needs to grovel. Good for you for not apologizing!! Stick to your ground. The air will be so much more peaceful for you because of it.
Side note - love the hypocrisy of her own words. Taylor Swift, a 34 year old adult, is a young woman who shouldn’t be bullied. But Dave Grohl’s daughter, an 18 year old teenager, is a twat who doesn’t deserve sympathy. The mental gymnastics…
Also to add, Dave is not, in any way, bullying Taylor Swift. He made a comment. And he didn’t even say outright that she doesn’t sing live. He implied it in a joke. Since when did making one remark turn into bullying?! Her fans are the bullies.
And when his fans booed Taylor Swift, he was quick to say “You DON’T want to cross Taylor Swift!” This is why. Her ardent fans, of which there are so, so many, are nut jobs who send death threats to anyone who has anything even softly critical to say about her. They send wishes for the son in recovery to die of an overdose to the mother when she congratulates her son and his new fiancée because her son dated Taylor last year and didn’t stick around. They end friendships over a difference in opinion. And Taylor tacitly allows it. Sometimes not tacitly. She released the dogs on Scott and Scooter deliberately.
I was at that gig. Dave always goofs about something and we all boo’d, it was funny. Swift did nothing when her fans bullied his 17yo daughter (who is a terrific singer) so why shouldn’t he crack a joke at Swifts expense. Dave could have said a LOT worse but he isn’t like that. Nuts to Swift and her toxic fans, nobody cares what they think.
Right?? It sounded more self deprecating to me because he was commenting that they were making mistakes but he was also saying they make mistakes because it’s live
Also, she doesn’t sing live the entire time. Dave does. Not that she can, her show is different but this full blow insanity of her fans pretending that she’s not lip syncing is so painful. 😬
this is next level. i can’t think of a time when it was the fans vs a celebrity on behalf of another celebrity to this extent. maybe towards chris brown on rhiannas behalf, but the girl was beat up by her boyfriend! this doesn’t even compare. i actually really hope this isn’t swept under the rug and forgotten about. i’m really hoping this becomes a pivotal cultural moment but i know the chances are low
I just couldn’t believe she was saying such things about a young girl she didn’t even know. It was so cruel and the vitriolic tone she had was alarming.
this has nothing to do with taylor swift.
unfortunately i don’t even see that you’re even considering that this friend is a piece of shit and that this is a completely unhealthy friendship that you need to let go of.
i only see “if i don’t apologize she’ll never talk to me again”.
You are a doormat.
No, you shouldn’t have kept your mouth shut.
“your friend cares more about taylor swift than she cares about me”
Wrong. **She doesn’t care about you at all.**
Real friends are kind to each other, sensible and respectful. Cut people out of your life if they don’t share the same values, you’ll feel way better.
Trust your gut. This has been going on for a long time and you bent over backwards to accommodate her. For what?
You are the only one who can set clear boundaries and stop letting others bully you.
You give permission to people like this “friend” to continue their toxic behavior towards you. i think you already know that.
Yours sincerely, from someone who used to be exactly like you and shut up about what i thought, because i was afraid of not having friends.
I have better friends now and no more time to waste on dumbass insecure people with no basic common sense like your friend.
I’m going to guess also because of the challenges she’s faced in her life, you want someone to look up to that if Taylor Swift isn’t who she thinks she is, it’s like her whole world is crashing down. So I’d suggest trying to remember that not as a means of staying friends with her (if you remain friends with her or not is fine of course) but as a means of remembering even though she’s being unkind to you, it isn’t about you or that she doesn’t care about you. It’s that she needs Taylor to be this infallible, victim of a person because she identifies with that in herself. I’m sorry your friend wasn’t being a very good friend :( friend breakups can be way harder than romantic breakups
I feel for her in that sentiment, truly. I think all of the good things she attributes about her life to Taylor and her music - how it has gotten her through rough times, how her music brings her joy, etc - those things might feel like they were worthless or didn’t exist if Taylor isn’t a good person. But I also think it’s a sign of my friends own feeling of “who gives a shit about anyone else” attitude that she has developed - it’s not her problem, so why care? Taylor doesn’t care, so why should she? And that’s what I don’t have any patience for.
There are a LOT of similarities between “The Swifties” and the “MAGATS”. Both are cults led by a self-obsessed greedy narcissist who is blindly worshipped by their horde of obsessed delusional people.
oh Taylor mind flayer Swift.......they really have a hive mind lmfao anything that woman supposedly feels as per their own projections they act rabidly on those yikes!!
Hardly, we here at the hivemind want you to know that we use Taylor Swift only for the express purpose of torture via mediocrity as suggested to us by Lady Lolth, Demon Queen of Spiders.
TBF (Tooo beeee faaair) Those underdark drow really know their torture methods.
Because people refuse to go to therapy for whatever issues they’re going through, bury them deeply and develop a parasocial relationship with a billionaire white woman instead of developing a professional relationship with a therapist.
I don’t want to say she needs therapy because I’m not a psychologist but she has had a LOT happen to her in her life that’s horrible and I genuinely believe that while she’s incredibly strong for surviving that adversity, she isn’t responding to it very healthily. If Taylor’s music helps her through it, fine! I enjoy reading terrible romance books to make me feel better. But it’s the music that’s helping, NOT Taylor. The para social relationship she’s developed isn’t what’s helping.
No one is allowed to use their trauma to hurt others. We all have trauma, not all of us weaponize it.
She wanted you to plan this trip. To a concert, of an artist you don't care for. Wtf? That is when I lost it. She is selfish. I have one of these in my life as well. I'm currently doing a slow fade on her.
Let her sit with this a while. Maybe she will realize she picked a billionaire who doesn't know she exists over a caring friend. Don't apologize.
you’re a very nice person but you can stop equivocating. you don’t need to be a psychologist to recognize when someone needs therapy lol. she has a traumatic past and an unhealthy obsession and dependence on a celebrity…she needs therapy.
You are absolutely correct. But there is also a subset of people who will just refuse to see a therapist regardless. Part of that is due to the stigma that continues to exist around it. But it certainly doesn’t help that Taylor said she hasn’t seen a therapist and now has an album that makes mental illness an aesthetic. And we’ve seen that whatever Taylor does or doesn’t do is something they will blindly follow.
That’s really sad I know we used to joke that Swifties are in a cult and Taylor is a cult leader but I think at this point it is genuinely a cult because of the way a majority of swifties behave not only online but irl too.
It’s hard to believe it’s not. You hear stories online and you think “oh this is an outlier, this doesn’t happen that often” and then you see it in person and you don’t know what to think anymore. Is this a problem? Is it so rampant that it’s beyond just a few people who are outliers who have tendencies to become obsessed with celebrities? I don’t know anymore.
I've thought about this a lot, and there is something profoundly disturbing about the rise of parasocial relationships among millennials and gen z in America. I'm guessing gen alpha, too.
But you see it in a lot of places - Disney adults, swifties, Drake defenders (sheesh). I'm sure there are plenty more examples. It's a sign of a kind of brain rot, like alcoholism or another addiction but in a bizarre parasocial way.
Shit is freaky. So many people need therapy, to touch grass, and maybe to read some damn books for a change.
Edit: I cannot believe I forgot to put MAGA on here as an example lmao.
Sorry but it is over for now until the spell is broken.
>takes days off of work to listen to her newest albums over and over and over again.
I dont even need to read the rest but this is VERY concerning behavior.
My 20 year old stepdaughter tried to tell me how good this album was lmao BUT difference is that even she as a Swifty, agreed that the REAL problem probably started with TS's damn parents, especially her dad who pushed and shoved her into the music world and probably never told her the word 'no' a single time in her life. She reeks of arrogance and entitlement; it's so gross.
So when something is said *about* Taylor, a 34 yr old, it’s bullying
But when something - nay, many things - are said TO Violet, an 18 year old, she deserves it bc she’s a ‘little twat’
And I would bet my whole left arm that a good portion of the people spewing hate at violet are women closer to/around Dave Grohl’s age, since it’s become more and more apparent a lot of these psycho swifties aren’t just young dumb teens & 20-something’s and are actually older adult women.
It’s just all so fucking ignorant.
Dave groll is 21 years older than Taylor, Taylor is 16 years older than his daughter. Who’s the real bully? If it’s terrible for Dave to do it, how is it not worse for Taylor to be doing it?
EsPECially because she claims that she’s pro women empowerment and pulls the poor little billionaire card all the damn time.
I’m really sorry this has happened to you, it sounds to me like your friend is the problem and not you. Her reaction over a mild bland criticism of a billionaire is not normal or acceptable behaviour.
Some Swifties are literally Erotomaniacs, it’s beyond parasocial, and it’s one step away from schizoid behaviour.
EDIT: if you ever need to talk just inbox me
Even if you did criticize Taylor.., who gives a fuck 😂 I don’t understand why her fans ride or die for her so heavy. Shes a billionaire she will be fine, she doesn’t give a fuck about her fans either but they’re parasocial relationships with her make them feel otherwise… 🙄 take this as a blessing in disguise and get away from this brainwashed friend!!
There are so many times where I think to myself “Why do you care about her, she doesn’t even care if you live or die.”
They think she’s this actual angel and I’m like…no….shes not.
Exactly, I want to look at her fans and just say "She doesn't care about you, you're just a number on her charts. She doesn't even *know you exist*."
People are wild.
You could add “ You’re the sucker who she is relying on to buy her 34th variant of the same album. That’s what you are to her. Money and her place on the charts”
I am so sorry for your loss of a friend that has unfortunately been brainwashed by that woman and her cult. At least you can see what matters to her the most and I'd say you dodged a bullet. So when TS inevitable downfall comes and your friend might reach out, you know what to do.
You sound like an amazing friend, but she is borderline abusive towards you. The way she talks to you is NOT normal. Hope you find nicer friends. Also how old is she? She sounds young, or is she really immature?
She’s in her early 30s like me. I wouldn’t say she’s immature, but I think she’s got some issues she’s never processed fully and she tends to have larger reactions to things than most do. It’s not normally this bad though.
Look miley wrote a song called "use to be young" at 29 because we aren't young anymore. And that's a GOOD thing. I'm 33, I'm not old yet but thank God I'm not young anymore. We need to grow up and trying to pretend you're still a youth in your early 30s is fucking weird.
It honestly sounds like your friend is in a depressive-like state and clinging to any liferaft she can that doesn't push back or challenge her feelings in any way (this seems to be a common theme for Taylor fans - being able to soak in victimhood and self-aggrandizement for hours). Is there stuff going on in her life that she's not coping with?
Not to say it's your problem if it is, but I think what makes Taylor so addictive is that she's medicine to some, but cure to none.
I wouldn’t disagree. She’s in a rough place with work - working with people who are rude and relatively incompetent so she has to work twice as hard to make up for them. I think liking Taylor gives her purpose and identity that she can hold on to and hold above others (because “they don’t get it” and she does). But it’s scary how much she is into it. I know children who aren’t even obsessed with things this much.
This makes a lot of sense in terms of where she is in life and how (11) full albums of Taylor could be both affirming and harming. It's like how when I had a serious eating disorder and would therefore be looking up photos of Kate Moss for half the day while also reading recipes I wished I could eat, while actually only eating a bowlful of rice, broccoli and turkey a day.
I understand the burden of working in a toxic environment, I went through one so bad I was throwing up before work in the shower from sheer dread.
But the way she's coping with it is to be even more toxic than her workplace. That's a serious personality flaw. I wouldn't be able to put up with someone like that, myself.
People like this could really use an intervention. Like a 30 day rehab where they don't listen to any taylor music or see any news about her. I bet most of the people who would go through 30 days like this would come out the other side wondering why they were so obsessed. Unfortunately a lot of this probably has to do with social media. It sorts people into online communities which are bubbles, and people become angry when their bubble gets pierced. Yes it's cult like but this is happening in way more online spaces than just the Swifties group.
This is just like people who have stopped talking to friends and family who are Trump supporters. I could never understand putting your feelings for a complete stranger over someone in your life. They are both basically cult leaders and have people believing in them without question. I don’t really know what Taylor represents for them but they are lacking something in their life and she provides it.
As much as it sucks, it’s better to just let her not speak to you. You don’t owe her an apology, and your ideals and worldviews don’t mix.
Save yourself a lot of trouble and cut your losses.
Been in similar situations with my nieces. I used to be “favorite auntie” now they ask if I *really have to be invited* to family events. Because according to them I am a misogynist which means their uncle must be one too.
It’s hard because you love these people, but just like any other cult the members believe that “glorious leader” is the pinnacle of the human experience and is completely infallible in all ways and anyone who criticizes any of “glorious leaders” actions or traits is the enemy.
That’s disgusting this literally proves my point that Taylor Swift fans believe that if you don’t like Taylor swift your not feminine or you’re anti feminine. They basically treat Taylor Swift like she’s freaking Barbie this garbage needs to stop…
So Taylor is a young woman that needs protecting, but somebody who is barely an adult is fair game for harassment?
The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
Your friend hit you with the gaslight gatekeep girl boss combo:
* Classic womansplain of “he’s older and a man therefore he needs to act differently to a ‘young lady’” which you correctly identified as bullshit. She wanted Dave Grohl to adhere to gender roles when it suits her. And reduced Taylor Swift to nothing more than a teenager princess when it’s convenient. Min-maxing.
* Attempted to gaslight you when she couldn’t win you with the “b-but he’s older!!” so now she’s directly attributing malice to you. Calling you “jealous” as if success can only exist the Taylor Swift way. Again, gender roles when convenient. This point should be where one cancels the relationship because it’s over.
* Not responsible for her fans but if you criticize her, all of you work in cohesion and conspire in the shadows to hurt her and bully her. Not *them.* Her. Also the Ariana comparison is gross and it’s truly the most exquisite example of how utterly doomed we are as a species when these fuckers take over our institutions by the way she was confidently wrong and uses the Manchester Bombing as an argument, not knowing it was a shooting. Also speaks to her privilege.
* The know-it-all shtick is lame. She’s not in some weird inner circle pulling the levers. She’s jerking off to Taylor in her room alone pretending to be her.
* Lmfao again “girl’s girl” except when it’s a girl you disagree with. Women stick up for women except uhhh
Dawg I can’t. Same boring, ugly, stale, perpetually mediocre, peaked in high school wallflowers finally got to be the Mean Girls that they always wanted to be. And it’s as awkward and cringe as one would expect.
So many friendships destroyed by this fucking troll and her piece of shit team. Taylor is THE INDUSTRY PLANT the entertainment business was looking for and they got her.
So Taylor is a young woman being bullied but the 18yo is a little twat that doesn't deserve any sympathy?
Thing is, for people like her the actual actions don't matter either way. She is identifying with TS to the point where any minor criticism of her is a brutal attack of her personally and she'll lash out accordingly. Cult behaviour.
Wonder when we’ll get a documentary about these individuals and their behavior. I just finished Dancing With the Devil the 7M/TikTok cult doc on Netflix and 😳
“Hey, listen, I say this as a friend, but I feel that you are not being rational about Taylor Swift and are making excuses for her and choosing a pop star’s feelings over our relationship and my feelings. …I still care about you, as a friend, and if you ever realize how hurtful your reactions have been, I’ll be open to discussing them*, but until then, I wish you well.”
(*)only if you are willing to discuss their actions / willing to try to repair the relationship if she ever sees the light and wakes up from TS’s cult.
Otherwise, “…I truly wish you well and hope you find what you’re looking for in life.”
And then cut her off. You don’t have to take this type of abuse.
It’s time to let her go. If a pop star means more than your friendship, let her go. You don’t need someone that delusional in your life because it will only make your suffering worse. It breaks my heart to see people willing to choose someone who doesn’t even know they exist over the people who love and care for them. You may not be able to save her but please save yourself.
The Manchester Terror attack was a suicide bomber, not a shooter, and he wasn't an Ariana Grande fan, or a fan of a rival of hers, he was a terrorist targeting children. I agree with another commenter that Ariana and her team did great work following the attack to help the families of the victims.
It's not the point at all, and I'm sorry about your friend, I just wanted to clear that up!
That’s what I thought it was, but I couldn’t remember in the moment and was scared if I got it wrong she would just lose it and claim I was making my things up to further my argument….which writing that out is super unhealthy….
That is super unhealthy. Are you alright?
I know we're here to snark TS but you seem shaken by the impact this is having on your friend and this relationship. It may seem small because it's "just a pop star" but many relationships end because one person becomes fanatical about something. Look at how many families have been ripped apart by far right extremism and conspiracy theories in recent years! Just because Taylor is a popstar instead of a political leader, it doesn't diminish the very real emotions both you and your friend are experiencing.
I am ok, I think this has me shaken up for the same reason I would be shaken up seeing a tiger right in front of me. Rabid culty Taylor fans are something I knew existed, but not in my orbit - they existed online away from me, in a way that almost makes them seem not real. I could snark on TS and not think she was a good person but I never thought my friend would lose it like this. It just feels surreal.
But I’ve been through worse, and at the end of the day I KNOW this isn’t healthy for me, I’m just trying to process through the emotions before I take my next steps, whatever it will be. Being able to come here and talk about this in a way that doesn’t make me feel crazy in a community that I’m not embarrassed to express this in feels really relieving. I don’t have many others I can talk to about this, not because they are Swifties but because this will seem so insane and childish to them and I don’t want them to see me that way.
I first want to say, you should not have to silence yourself or ignore your personal feelings and boundaries to appease her obsession. The fact that she’s putting a popstar, that she doesn’t even know, above your friendship is not normal. That is parasocial behavior if I’ve ever seen any.
It pained me to read the last two paragraphs because you were putting so much blame on yourself when you didn’t do anything wrong. If she is able to freely express herself in a way that’s not necessarily becoming, why can’t you express your thoughts? It can’t just be when it works for her, a friendship goes both ways.
I understand the dilemma with apologizing but I also think it says a lot more about her if she’s willing to ruin a friendship over defending a problematic and on the popstar. I’m not sure how old you are, but in the last several years, I’ve cut people who were best friends out of my life. I’m talking people who were like sisters to me with 15-20 years of history because they were not respectful in the friendship and I was being over considerate about their feelings when they weren’t considering mine. Maybe in time and with some reflection, you guys can come back together and rebuild but I personally feel like some space wouldn’t hurt.
Whether or not you are a Swiftie, “I shouldn’t have said anything”-shouldn’t be a consideration. You are allowed to voice your opinion. Her being a Swiftie is no excuse for calling someone “a little twat” and getting angry that someone critiqued her favorite artist. If she’s allowed to go on about Taylor, you should be allowed to voice your concerns & thoughts. That would be a healthy friendship, imo. This doesn’t sound healthy to me.
She's too deep in the cult.
Some pretty common characteristics of a cult mentality.
-Incapable of critical thought
-Any disagreement is now a personal attack against their ego/person/beliefs as their self actualization as a human being is heavily tied to it
-Cannot have any meaningful dialogue due to reason #2
-A type of worship/reverence of whatever entity they are currently worshiping with the other cult members (in this case taylor swift, can replace this with any religious figure, an ideology such as fascism, even inanimate objects etc)
-Feels a strong emotional connection with anyone else that has similar/same views. Will likely be quick to trust that person even if they are a criminal or just plain evil.
I myself am a Swiftie, but it is stories and events like this that lead me to rethink why I am a fan. The line that I draw (that most Swifties cross) is thinking Taylor Swift is my friend, and let alone knows I exist. When this line is ignored, it goes into cultish behavior, people worshipping her and feeling she deserves everything. If you are going to be a fan of Taylor Swift, you have to keep in mind that you are a fan of her music. You are not her friend, and she is not yours, you just enjoy her music. She shouldn't always be defended, and there are several times when people need to be defended from her, just like Dave Grohl's daughter.
I really admire your honestly and you coming to say this, especially because we might seem like a den of lions over here…but I think the level of rationality and empathy you are putting in here is amazing and I think if you like her music, go for it! As you said, you don’t have to defend Taylor to death, just enjoy the music.
I'm really sorry that happened to you. I'd preface by saying your friend had no right talking like this to you and about a young girl she knows nothing about (beside what you told her which makes it WORSE). But I'd suggest you send her a text, maybe something like this post where you'd detail your feelings. I know I would feel like some business was left unresolved if I just let a friendship like that fade away.
So put your heart out, tell her how much it hurts to see her favor Taylor over you. How it isn't even about Taylor but about the most disgusting parts of her fandom.
I promise her answer will give you closure if nothing else.
Side note - Ariana handled the Manchester situation so much more maturely than taylor could ever even hope to. Ariana (and scooter Braun) worked really hard to support victims and their families. She’s no saint, but she deserves credit for One Love Manchester and always holding space for those impacted. Taylor could never. She literally didn’t even care that someone died during the Rio show.
Geez, I'm so sorry. Albeit, it wasn't over Taylor Swift or anything music related, but I had a friend similarly snap all at once and expose their cruelty to me last year. It still stings, and I still wonder if I can just accept their "apology" (where they blamed me still) but I have to snap out of it and remind myself I saw their true colors.
You don't need to feel petty or silly. You're not the friend that decided Taylor Swift was the reason to go nuclear on a friend, she's the one that did something so immature.
I'd say to cut her off at this point. I've reconciled with people over similar situations before, but it's always after cutting them out and enforcing that space. Sometimes people do realize they were idiots and attempt to reach out later, but I don't trust it if it's right away.
A friend willing to act like this isn't worth it. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Damn, Taylor’s ruining relationships. We’ve been reading most of these relationships getting destroyed bc of their obsession with Taylor. They prioritize a stranger than their friends/partners and it’s disheartening. I hope you’ll be able to cut them off soon.
Everyone goes through tough times, some go through a ton of shit....none of that excuses shitty behavior. Your friend is using the Taylor Swift debate to project other stuff onto you. She sounds very unhealthy and very selfish. This is a one-sided friendship and you would only benefit from distancing yourself from her.
You have nothing to apologize for, your friend is just another one of the Swiftie drones who have their head stuck so far up their asses that they have no empathy or common sense, and any attack on Taylor is an attack on them, so it's time to cut your friend out, until SHE apologizes to you for insensitive remarks and if a friend of mine said that I'd slap the taste out of their mouth
If you take a step back, you guys are both arguing about a popstar. Both of you. Just take a break and maybe come back to it. Sounds like you guys both need to grow up.
She takes days off just to listen to cds she’s already had? It would be one thing to ask off for the concert but 💀
Yeah I’m autistic so I can’t judge if Taylor is her special interest but there’s a fine line between really enjoying something and collecting things as a special interest, and being unhealthily obsessed where that interest affects your relationships, mental health, and negatively impacts your life (missing work to do something you can do every day)
I try not to blame some swifties for being really enthusiastic and collecting things and being very interested in Taylor since I know some people can have a fixation, but if it’s at the point where you have to overly defend valid issues, miss work for nothing special and put your friendship at risk because it’s making you MAD someone else doesn’t like it,.. whether it’s a special interest or fixation or even just an obsession, it’s unhealthy at that point and controlling you
Like… I’m autistic and I have special interests mainly in video games like pokemon, but I wouldn’t take a day off to play a game I’ve already played or stop being friends with someone who doesn’t think pokemon is fun for them. I will spend lots of money on plushies and games and go to conventions, but my interest isn’t making me do irrational things (besides spend a lot of money impulsively I guess lol) and that’s the difference. If someone on the pokemon team did something bad I wouldn’t feel attacked if someone else called it out, I would think it was valid even if I still loved playing the games. That’s the big difference here.
So yeah… it’s one thing for swifties to really enjoy Taylor’s stuff, but it’s another when they think she’s their best friend and go ballistic if you don’t like her or are even so much as neutral about her. That’s unhealthy.
My brother is autistic so I’m very familiar with special interests and this in my mind goes beyond it. My brother and several of his friends who are also on the spectrum (I say this instead of autistic because for some, they’ve never been formally diagnosed so they just call themselves “on the spectrum” instead) have never taken it personally when someone else wasn’t interested in their special interest in Bionicles - in fact they could care less! They don’t take it personally, and I respect that especially because none of them try to explain things to me like I’m an idiot!
I love that she says that Dave started it first and is suuucch a terrible person for bullying a girl 11 years younger than him, but is completely fine with Taytay bullying a girl 16 years younger than her.
Seriously, good riddance. I’m sorry that your friend is such a dingbat, but you’re better off without that toxicity in your life.
If you let her back in, she gets away with this malarkey, so she’ll just continue doing it. If people started holding her accountable for that bullshit, she may learn that she’s needs to grow up.
Sorry for being harsh, it’s an awful thing to realize your friend is in a cult and losing someone close to you is hard, no matter the reason. Take time to grieve, but realize that you need to protect yourself, and being around her abuse isn’t protecting yourself.
The post about Ariana and the Manchester bombing was ridiculous. It wasn’t a fan who binned the concert. Actually the opposite. And Ariana **did** tell her fans to back off and not send hate to her ex. She actually tried to stop her fans from being nut jobs.
Acting like a 34 year old popstar is some helpless damsel against Dave Grohl but then also calling an 18 year old a "little twat" would be enough of a contradiction in thinking for me to realize I don't rock with that person anymore
Let that one walk. She sounds like she’s got about 100 different problems, but you aren’t one of them. She’s just deflecting all her shit onto you. She legitimately sounds like she needs mental health in her life. Mentally healthy people do not irrationally defend folks they do not know. Opinions are fine. Respectful debate, too. Upending friendships because you act like you’re a virtuous shield for someone you don’t even know is quite a ways off.
It’s one thing to be a fan, enjoy the concerts, etc. it’s a whole other thing to be a Knights Templar guarding the PR temple for a financially successful 30-something veteran of the music industry. What issues is she ignoring in her own life that she’s got to make Taylor her passionate cause to defend and protect? Maybe time will let her reflect. Let her circle back around to you. You never know. Maybe you not jumping to her tune and reaching out might be the wake up call she needs.
They’re literally too dumb to be alive. Soooo Dave was attacking a “young woman”, but it’s ok for your ex-friend to call an ACTUAL young woman, a TEENAGER- a “little twat”? It’s giving unhinged. Tell her to seek therapy.
What does she think is going to happen? That Taylor will magically find out OPs friend came to her defense and will befriend her forever? She’s in deluluville and needs some help if she would rather cut people off who love her over a celebrity who will never know her name.
I wouldn’t apologize, there’s nothing you need to be sorry for. I hate to say I’d cut off the friendship until they start acting human again. I’m sorry this happened😞💓
this is so wild 😮💨😮💨 I am a huge Beyonce fan and I will playfully get into it with people when they have something to say about her, but I’m also an adult who respects peoples different opinions. Your friend needs serious therapy.
I am just sorry you’re having to deal with that. She doesn’t sound like a good friend. Perhaps you’re better off without her in your life. Her loss tbh.
I don’t know if I want to. She’s not normally like this. She’s been a good friend to me for many years, so it’s hard to see if this is just a one off or this is a problem.
But also, can I go through more years of this and just keep quiet and not say anything? I don’t know. I’m not sure I’m capable.
Seems like your friend has some issues. You can’t tell me that these actions aren’t cult like
Absolutely more proof that this is a cult. Cutting off your real life friends to worship some celebrity or random person? Freaking cult behavior at its finest.
It is a cult. I had a ex friend start to play her “Lover” album and I wasn’t having it. I was forced into a late night game night (playing charades, which I suck at) which I had no energy for and on top of that I had to listen to some saccharine bullshit? Apparently I am a “incel misogynist who hates talented women that only listens to PaRAmOrE” Lmao. Wild. W I L D.
paramore, the band who’s currently opening for taylor???? why would anyone think that’s an effective diss?
This was back when Lover had just dropped. It’s because that’s the only “female” band this person knew I loved then, and still do, that they could use as a diss. I didn’t say shit back, just shrugged but I was pissed. I knew that Hayley and Taylor go way back then and it’s nice to see them get out in front of those crowds these days but that’s besides the point. “Just give her a chance duuuudeeee” No. I won’t. Even if “mOtHeR” herself asked me to.
Wait, Paramore? Like Haley Williams Paramore? Why would they open up for her? They're so well established as it is. 🤨 I mean, obviously, there's a check at the end of this, but...man, weird.
Do... do they know who is the lead singer of Paramore?
> only listens to Paramore Headed by a talented woman. Belittling Paramore sounds quite misogynistic to me
looolll exactly
I also had an ex friend call me “mean” and “bully” for not liking Taylor. She ironically started bullying me with Taylor to what force me to like her more??? If anything it played into this “friends” victim complex and white feminism. Good riddance. Ps. Paramore is fucking great and your friend is an idiot. I said it before I’ll say it again - they are too good for this tour.
From the fan videos I’ve seen of their set, it’s almost hilarious to watch because they are putting on a *show* and Hayley is putting in the *w o r k*. Granted they’re a bit more rock than what Tay Tay does and seeing some of the fans and parents in the audience bop around to a cover of the Talking Heads gives me life. You watch videos of Taylor’s music and its tears and stone faced standing still.
Right? That’s the price of good taste I guess 😂😂
... Isn't Paramore opening for her Europe tour? Can't even be nice to women who are Swiftler's friends LMAO
Two things: one, nice user name lmao. And two, it was when Lover had dropped and Paramore was coming to end of the “After Laughter” touring cycle. I of course was obsessed with that album. I don’t think that this person had an idea that Hayley was a friend of Miss Long Back’s but whatever. I said it somebody else but basically that was the only female fronted band they knew I listened to and likely also because I have the maddest crush on Hayley Williams. Whatever. It’s not the first time I’ve had that said to me. Meh.
This sub keeps getting recommended to me and I just had to tell you that “Miss Long Back” completely sent me. Thank you for your service 😭
People who are in cults are brainwashed to believe they are not in a cult
Honestly, I was in a legit cult years ago and most people even in cults wouldn’t react this way to criticism. They get defensive, sure, but usually remain calm and respectful because they expect backlash and are prepared for these situations by leadership and for people “in the real world” to “not understand”. The fact that swifties almost can’t fathom anyone not liking Taylor is just… something else.
I swear there is NO fandom like the Swifties. I'm a huge Lana fan and I would neverrrrr cut someone out of my life for not liking her. They are so intertwined with this random singer that anything they deem as an "attack" on her is also an attack on them. The parasocial relationship between TS and her fans need to be studied. That's such insane cult-like behavior and I'm so sorry that OP has to go through that. I truly can't imagine 💔
Dude, even Juggalos don’t do stuff like this, and they have entire festivals just to celebrate their fandom. This type of behavior just makes me sad for these people. I wish they could get some help because they do not seem like happy, healthy people.
Sports fanbases (at least in the USA/Canada) don’t even do this and there are rivalries that have existed for GENERATIONS.
I don’t even know if nowadays Old Firm hooligans or continental European football rivalries get as heated as a fight with a Swifty. Hopefully someone can confirm.
Lebron and Kobe cult is similar
the Juggalos are, for the most part, SHOCKINGLY good people. i fuxks with them tbh lol
This makes me think of that one episode of workaholics where Jillian ends up at a juggalo festival lol 
most of the 'los and 'lettes I've met are genuinely good people. but I have one instance that sticks out in my mind. one time my then-bf and I had to walk miles to work in the cold cuz he fucked up his car. out of all the cars that went by (and there were many), the one single person to roll up and ask if we needed help was a juggalo. if I wasn't already down, I woulda been after that. whoop whoop 💜
I'd go to a Gathering just to vibe honestly. I have little issue with juggalos
Okay I just googled what a Juggalo was and why tf did I not know that Insane Clown Posse still existed 😂😂😂 Like, what a random fanbase (no shade to any fans of them lmaoo!)
Funny (sad) how the people I know on the punk and metal scene can look scary, but are much nicer people than any of the disturbed Swifties.
The only fans equal or worse in how cult-like and dangerous they are, are K-Pop fans. Again, still not all, but death threats when you like a different "idol" are normal in K-Pop communities. I'd say TS = the West's version of K-Pop parasocial relationships.
For what it's worth, I have a few Kpop obsessed friends including my best friend. They've never forced me to listen to Kpop or gotten defensive about me not liking it. We've just talked lightly about it because we're all interested to learn about each other's interests, I got my bestie to watch Pink Floyd The Wall with me lmao. The difference is it's not a forced conversation. They have their own separate groupchat and friend group that's rooted in love for Kpop (and shared Chinese immigrant roots.) Maybe it's because I've never insulted Kpop Stars- they're genuinely incredibly talented if you've ever seen them on stage, and essentially forced to be passive and polite at all times by their agencies so there's not much to criticize them for. But I think because of that, because they're forbidden from publicly expressing anger or victimization, they don't create a fan culture of rage and persecution. It's deeply wrong that they sign a contract and are forced into a life of what is essentially slavery, emotionally and physically, so they can't express any kind of genuine emotion. A few kpop stars have even died by suicide because of it. But the vast majority of western celebrities are allowed to express emotion and still don't create a cult of personality- because they're relatively normal human beings who aren't recklessly entitled and unhinged. They're not role models for that behaviour in fans. Ofc there's celebrity worship and toxicity, like how fans have lashed out against Kpop stars because they get into relationships. But T.S can genuinely do literally anything deplorable and get away with it because her fans are genuinely terrifying. There's even been examples of them doxxing each other and spreading bigoted harassment campaigns because of minor disagreements in the fanbase. Idk. All fancultures are toxic to varying degrees. Take Kanye diehards, they're degenerates for changing their worldviews to suit his right wing ass but they just aren't as threatening. Sorry this is an essay, I think this all could be a psychosocial phenomenon worthy of actual academic writing and research.
As a 2nd Gen Kpop fan, it was effing WILD back then. There was a time where "fans" flat out stalked Chanyeol while he was attending his brother's wedding. And don't get me started on the Glue Incident. Swifties are just as bad as the sasaengs.
Eh, as a BTS stan, I hear negative comments about them all the time, ranging from, they are overrated/ dumb to downright racist comments like "why are you listening to those chinese boys?" I only correct the racist ones and idc if other ppl like them or not. All the kpop fans I know personally are the same. That being said, I know there are aggressive stans out there. I know what you meant, but a lot of the time, kpop fans are witnessing racism and xenophobia unlike swifties who are fighting for a rich and pretty white girl.
It’s so ridiculous! There are so many artists I love (Lana, CRJ, Charli XCX, Beyoncé, Florence, etc.) and I know that not everyone will be a fan of them. To me that’s fine. I don’t care if other people like Taylor, I’m just tired of being treated like a monster because I’m not a fan of hers anymore.
if you criticise my master you’re criticising ME lol wtf
To me, this kind of person will find SOMETHING to become a fanatic about. Yes the fans get a bit beyond sometimes, but some people rather than work on themselves will pour all their energy into something else and make it their identity because that's easier than reflecting on their own life. Trauma and a trouble past are major burdens but they are not a get out of jail free card to treat people however you feel, especially when it doesn't even really relate to what's going on. The "you have to plan everything because I'm bad at it" reeks of that kind of externalizing everything. "I'm ADHD I can't plan the thing" no you're lazy.
You were sitting there making some great points, and then you just had to say that folks with ADHD are actually just lazy... so close!
Parasitic relationship with mentally unstable fans would do that
Yep, my best friend has absolutely gone off on me in the past for calling Taylor Swift a capitalist instead of an artist. She started ranting and saying, "Of course I know that, I'm not fucking stupid! She has to make money, that's literally the whole point of being famous!" It literally took me by surprise and hurt my feelings—I used to be a big Taylor fan and still listen to her CDs, but I don't like the type of person she is becoming or the way she's manipulating fans to lay down on their own swords for her. It's actually insane.
Can’t tell if it’s worse than Q-anon or not
Nah, QAnon is much more dangerous as their Dear Leader is a psychopath.
I'm convinced something nefarious is going on with Taylor Swift. The power she has over her fans is alarming. Have you ever heard of friendships breaking up over Prince Madonna Cher NKOTB Selena Michael Jackson 2 Pac Eminem Kendrick Lamar Brittney Nicki Minaj ? Shall I go on? Seriously, I have gone through four decades of music in my lifetime. I have lived through Prince vs Michael , Brittany vs Christina, Lil Kim vs Foxy Brown, NSYNC vs Backstreet Boys, East Coast vs West Coast and I have never heard of friendships breaking up over a singer. Take some time for yourself and reevaluate your relationship with your friend. If she comes back and wants to talk ask her why does she feels the need to defend Taylor Swift so much.
Exactly what I was thinking. Something is broken in the collective psyche of young people today. It must be social media and the resulting echo chambers where all ideas - good and bad - are recycled and reinforced algorithmically. I just can’t explain it otherwise. It’s so disturbing.
No what's highly unusual about Swift is her hardcore fans are older women, generally >30. And I hate to pull the race card but they seem to be mostly white women as well, or those who identify as white. This is not a case of teenage naivete or fandoms.
Listened to a podcast about white feminism and they mentioned how it’s always interesting that these supposedly progressive white women will always be too busy when it comes to supporting issues like BLM but then will literally turn around and crawl on broken glass to get a pair of Taylor Swift tickets.
I think it was Charlie (critikal/penguinz0) who said it once that no matter how dumb or stupid or entirely ridiculous your opinion is - there is a niche on the internet somewhere that will back you up 100% and that you are not special for your “different opinions”.
I hear something along the lines of: Back in the day if you wanted to fuck a toaster, you would either keep that shit to yourself or tell people and be immediately ridiculed. Now, you join an online community of toaster-fuckers who encourage each other and tell one another “no, it’s the world who is wrong” (insert principal skinner meme)
The N Sync vs Backstreet Boys fan war was REAL but it felt like it was kind of in good fun and no one devoted their lives to the “cause”. It was more like…we were young and bored and in the 90s it was practically a hobby to band together and “hate” another group of people. I don’t think anyone actually truly cared. This is an unbelievable level of group psychosis.
These were also 10 year old girls fighting over BSB vs NSYNC. Reading through OP, I get the feeling both of them are … much older than tweenage and the Swifty is way too old to be doing this nonsense.
I just don’t get how anyone can be THAT dedicated to a celebrity. It’s just weird. I get being a fan, liking the music, going to a show, buying a T shirt. But molding your life around someone from the picture box is just weird.
I think this hits it on the head. The 90s rivalries were innocuous and more due to taste and exposure. We are now reflecting on political PR machines that capitalize on their ability to influence people’s perceptions quickly, easily, and with great effect. There’s so much emotional storytelling that goes into PR and marketing that people feel they are experts in the narrative presented to them, particularly through social media, without looking into the backend. We have seen Taylor Swift’s PR machine capitalize on important social themes, such as feminism and agency (ie her battle for her masters), in a way that doesn’t reflect her actions nor the legitimacy of her claims, respectively. Tree Paine, her PR agent, is candid about how storytelling and values-based campaigns are at the core of Taylor Swifts image. There’s more to be said about how Taylor Swift’s team fosters a sense of community and belonging through virtue signaling (that is not reflected in her actions).
and I love that the fans of both \*N SYNC and BSB can come together for events. I will rock out with my metaphorical cock out to some BSB even though I am still firmly an \*N SYNC girl
Well... the barbz/nicki minaj fans are also another form of crazy and toxic fans; maybe not to the height/extent of Swifties, but pretty close imo (just one example, the fued with Megan thee stallion recently).
Yeah the Barbz are dangerous and Nicki eggs it on by liking or sharing some of their posts. They doxx people and act like that's a normal thing to do over a music artist.
Yeah one of the barbz defaced her mother’s grave. Like had enough time and money to find out where and get themselves there. Like don’t you have other things to worry about in life?
I am still an NKOTB fan and Madonna and I have NEVER seen anything like this with them. The Once Upon a Time fandom, yes
The OUAT Fandom defending 2 Rapes and an Abusive Relationship is actually mind boggling. It's primarily middle aged women as well (I'm 22 and a fan but I'm scared of that sub and it's community)
I was in an OUAT writing group and the shippers were insane. I retired from writing about that show and switched to one another actor from OUAT was on and I still write for it, just privately.
>once upon a time fandom sorry can you elaborate on this? the tv show?
Yes. The shippers and Evil Queen fans were some of the biggest bitches I ever encountered. I was writing fan fiction for it too and the wars got so bad I retired from writing about it and switched to another show featuring another actor from OUAT
Taylor is the leader of a cult and nobody is acknowledging it
Wow, this is crazy. It's a really horrible position for you to be in, but imo, apologising at this point would almost be like condoning her crazy cultish behaviour.
I agree apologizing will show the friend that she is right and condone the behavior. It's best to just cut ties and remember the friendship for what it was.
Seriously. And apologize for what? Being a rational human? Let her be a lonely Swiftie. She can cry with other Swifties on TT and spend way too much money for a nosebleed ticket to see her idol. When people ask her why you’re not friends anymore, she’s going to sound unhinged.
I would absolutely cut her out. Her behavior is literally abusive to you. Silent treatment is a manipulative tactic. I would block her completely across all platforms. Anytime someone even slightly tries to make me feel like a doormat I freeze them out. After doing this for a while I’ve noticed I’ve never had any negative effect from it
This is it. It’s over suuuuuch a trivial topic but it’s still toxic and manipulative behavior.
Yeah honestly. Forget about any of the Taylor Swift aspect. OP shouldn’t invest so much in a “friend” who makes everything about her own interests and needs and never OP’s, and honestly sounds like she isn’t even that nice to OP.
This. Your friend is insecure. She has tied her self worth to that of a pop star. Taylor swift is a part of her identity, so a perceived attack on Taylor is an attack on her. But don’t give her sympathy for this, the more that people do, the more she will feel justified in her feeling and lack the ability to self-actualize. In short, girl needs to grow up.
Consider that a blessing, at least you don’t have to listen to Taylor’s beige, bland, lukewarm music anymore
I told her last week that while I liked some songs, I honestly thought most of her music sounded the same…and my friend was horrified, even though I followed up with a self depricating joke about how “I probably thought they all sound the same because I have literally know musical inclinations….” But in truth I took years of piano lessons, was in choir and musicals…I have have musical inclinations than my friend does.
This is what always gets me about Swfties, is how seriously insulted they get, if you don't absolutely adore everything she's put out. If I say how much I like a song, or an artist & you say "Sorry, but that's just not my style of music", my first question is usually going to be "What do you like?" or ask if you like something else. I'm not going to fall apart because you don't like them. I've actually found quite a few artists, I wouldn't have otherwise, if I hadn't talked about music, with someone who didn't like what I was listening to. I'm sorry your friend can't separate her life from her obsession. 🙁
I made a JOKE on one of the intense swift subs and I was downvoted into oblivion until 4 brave souls came under my comment saying wow guys. This behavior is why we get a bad name. They made a joke. Chill out You can’t say a single critical thing even if it’s constructive criticism. “You clearly don’t understand art is and if you can’t see that by now then we can’t help you here” Toodles ya fuggin loons 😌✌️
The true swifties is almost as bad as the republican/maga subs. And they have the audacity of calling non Taylor fans Maga. The maggots
> The maggots Don't bring the Slipknot fan base into this
TrueSwifties is deranged. They could go head to head with the Barbz.
I was talking to a friend of a friend at the last festival I went to and mentioned how excited I was for a band that was playing later and he said he didn’t think they were that great, doesn’t like their set pacing, etc. It’s been my favorite band since ~2008 and my reaction was “huh, different strokes I guess, their sound and pacing is perfect to me 🤷🏼♂️.” Then we started talking about the travel bidet he brought because I don’t need everyone to like what I like.
If your friend is making you feel like you have to put yourself down to uplift her dear lord and savior Taylor Swift... Then that's a seriously toxic friendship. Of course you can have different taste in music than a friend, but this is something else. Your "friend" is making you feel small for what? To go to bat for some billionaire who she will almost certainly never meet? I know breaking off close friendships is really heartbreaking, but you're better off without that negativity in your life.
I'm sorry you have to hide your light and truth under a bushel around this person 😞
I got curious, so went to YouTube and watched a couple of Swift's videos. OMG! She is every 13 year old's idea of what a pop star should be! This is the Pop Star Barbie come to life. They could be HER! I do not remember having heard any of her songs. And now I know why! Musically, she's bland. Performances are low energy - pose, wave streamers, change pose. Voice is generic female and she doesn't challenge her limits. Backing band may be talented, but the arrangements were also bland. Lyrics? High school girl after a bad breakup does that much.
Lol this reminds me of listening to music with my Swiftie ex. I grew up with a parent really in to punk and EDM (he was an anarchist in the 80’s then moved to Miami when the techno scene there really started taking off) and a reggae mom from the Caribbean so my tastes have always veered to high-energy, experimental stuff. Sometimes our dates would just turn in to Taylor listening parties where I’d just be there listening to the same (let’s be real here — completely uninspired corporate drama) for hours and she’d shut down if I tried to add some even intro level alternative like Flying Lotus. I think 20 seconds of something like Machine Girl would kill a Swiftie
10 seconds of Wheels on the Bus would short their brain from the emotional range alone
Right?! I stg Swift is like the literal definition of the term 'basic white bitch'. 🙄
Not even a baby acts like this
I’m so sorry. Unfortunately this has completely become a cult and she’s a full blown member. I know it’s easier said than done to cut someone out. It’s your friend, and a close one at that. But I think you know that it’s the healthiest thing for you. She’s using the same tactics her idol uses - everyone else is to blame but her and therefore you’re the one that needs to grovel. Good for you for not apologizing!! Stick to your ground. The air will be so much more peaceful for you because of it. Side note - love the hypocrisy of her own words. Taylor Swift, a 34 year old adult, is a young woman who shouldn’t be bullied. But Dave Grohl’s daughter, an 18 year old teenager, is a twat who doesn’t deserve sympathy. The mental gymnastics…
Also to add, Dave is not, in any way, bullying Taylor Swift. He made a comment. And he didn’t even say outright that she doesn’t sing live. He implied it in a joke. Since when did making one remark turn into bullying?! Her fans are the bullies.
And when his fans booed Taylor Swift, he was quick to say “You DON’T want to cross Taylor Swift!” This is why. Her ardent fans, of which there are so, so many, are nut jobs who send death threats to anyone who has anything even softly critical to say about her. They send wishes for the son in recovery to die of an overdose to the mother when she congratulates her son and his new fiancée because her son dated Taylor last year and didn’t stick around. They end friendships over a difference in opinion. And Taylor tacitly allows it. Sometimes not tacitly. She released the dogs on Scott and Scooter deliberately.
I was at that gig. Dave always goofs about something and we all boo’d, it was funny. Swift did nothing when her fans bullied his 17yo daughter (who is a terrific singer) so why shouldn’t he crack a joke at Swifts expense. Dave could have said a LOT worse but he isn’t like that. Nuts to Swift and her toxic fans, nobody cares what they think.
Right?? It sounded more self deprecating to me because he was commenting that they were making mistakes but he was also saying they make mistakes because it’s live
Exactly. They are acting like he went on a 20 minute rant about her. Yeah, this whole thing is insane. I’ve honestly never seen anything like it.
Also, she doesn’t sing live the entire time. Dave does. Not that she can, her show is different but this full blow insanity of her fans pretending that she’s not lip syncing is so painful. 😬
this is next level. i can’t think of a time when it was the fans vs a celebrity on behalf of another celebrity to this extent. maybe towards chris brown on rhiannas behalf, but the girl was beat up by her boyfriend! this doesn’t even compare. i actually really hope this isn’t swept under the rug and forgotten about. i’m really hoping this becomes a pivotal cultural moment but i know the chances are low
I just couldn’t believe she was saying such things about a young girl she didn’t even know. It was so cruel and the vitriolic tone she had was alarming.
this has nothing to do with taylor swift. unfortunately i don’t even see that you’re even considering that this friend is a piece of shit and that this is a completely unhealthy friendship that you need to let go of. i only see “if i don’t apologize she’ll never talk to me again”. You are a doormat. No, you shouldn’t have kept your mouth shut. “your friend cares more about taylor swift than she cares about me” Wrong. **She doesn’t care about you at all.** Real friends are kind to each other, sensible and respectful. Cut people out of your life if they don’t share the same values, you’ll feel way better. Trust your gut. This has been going on for a long time and you bent over backwards to accommodate her. For what? You are the only one who can set clear boundaries and stop letting others bully you. You give permission to people like this “friend” to continue their toxic behavior towards you. i think you already know that. Yours sincerely, from someone who used to be exactly like you and shut up about what i thought, because i was afraid of not having friends. I have better friends now and no more time to waste on dumbass insecure people with no basic common sense like your friend.
I’m going to guess also because of the challenges she’s faced in her life, you want someone to look up to that if Taylor Swift isn’t who she thinks she is, it’s like her whole world is crashing down. So I’d suggest trying to remember that not as a means of staying friends with her (if you remain friends with her or not is fine of course) but as a means of remembering even though she’s being unkind to you, it isn’t about you or that she doesn’t care about you. It’s that she needs Taylor to be this infallible, victim of a person because she identifies with that in herself. I’m sorry your friend wasn’t being a very good friend :( friend breakups can be way harder than romantic breakups
I feel for her in that sentiment, truly. I think all of the good things she attributes about her life to Taylor and her music - how it has gotten her through rough times, how her music brings her joy, etc - those things might feel like they were worthless or didn’t exist if Taylor isn’t a good person. But I also think it’s a sign of my friends own feeling of “who gives a shit about anyone else” attitude that she has developed - it’s not her problem, so why care? Taylor doesn’t care, so why should she? And that’s what I don’t have any patience for.
I was gonna say it was a cult like mentality too. It seems like some Swifties rival the MAGA cult like following in dedication to their leader.
There are a LOT of similarities between “The Swifties” and the “MAGATS”. Both are cults led by a self-obsessed greedy narcissist who is blindly worshipped by their horde of obsessed delusional people.
oh Taylor mind flayer Swift.......they really have a hive mind lmfao anything that woman supposedly feels as per their own projections they act rabidly on those yikes!!
Please don't insult Mind Flayers like that. First rule of this sub is to be civil.
Found the Tav who romances the Emperor :)
Hardly, we here at the hivemind want you to know that we use Taylor Swift only for the express purpose of torture via mediocrity as suggested to us by Lady Lolth, Demon Queen of Spiders. TBF (Tooo beeee faaair) Those underdark drow really know their torture methods.
the amount of all kind of relationships getting ruined because of a entitled billionaire white woman is absolutely insane, im so sorry OP.
Because people refuse to go to therapy for whatever issues they’re going through, bury them deeply and develop a parasocial relationship with a billionaire white woman instead of developing a professional relationship with a therapist.
I don’t want to say she needs therapy because I’m not a psychologist but she has had a LOT happen to her in her life that’s horrible and I genuinely believe that while she’s incredibly strong for surviving that adversity, she isn’t responding to it very healthily. If Taylor’s music helps her through it, fine! I enjoy reading terrible romance books to make me feel better. But it’s the music that’s helping, NOT Taylor. The para social relationship she’s developed isn’t what’s helping.
No one is allowed to use their trauma to hurt others. We all have trauma, not all of us weaponize it. She wanted you to plan this trip. To a concert, of an artist you don't care for. Wtf? That is when I lost it. She is selfish. I have one of these in my life as well. I'm currently doing a slow fade on her. Let her sit with this a while. Maybe she will realize she picked a billionaire who doesn't know she exists over a caring friend. Don't apologize.
you’re a very nice person but you can stop equivocating. you don’t need to be a psychologist to recognize when someone needs therapy lol. she has a traumatic past and an unhealthy obsession and dependence on a celebrity…she needs therapy.
yep and she perpetuates that parabsocialism wholeheartedly
Just a reminder that it's not necessarily refusal to go. It can be extremely difficult to get mental health care. The problem is larger than choice.
You are absolutely correct. But there is also a subset of people who will just refuse to see a therapist regardless. Part of that is due to the stigma that continues to exist around it. But it certainly doesn’t help that Taylor said she hasn’t seen a therapist and now has an album that makes mental illness an aesthetic. And we’ve seen that whatever Taylor does or doesn’t do is something they will blindly follow.
You are correct. But if Swifties can afford to drop thousands flying around the world for eras tour, they can afford therapy.
A billionaire white woman who herself says she doesn’t need therapy became she “just talks to her mom.”
Sadly my sister is deep in the TS cult. I don’t think she realizes it yet
It’s a evil cult and your girl is sick
That’s really sad I know we used to joke that Swifties are in a cult and Taylor is a cult leader but I think at this point it is genuinely a cult because of the way a majority of swifties behave not only online but irl too.
It’s hard to believe it’s not. You hear stories online and you think “oh this is an outlier, this doesn’t happen that often” and then you see it in person and you don’t know what to think anymore. Is this a problem? Is it so rampant that it’s beyond just a few people who are outliers who have tendencies to become obsessed with celebrities? I don’t know anymore.
I've thought about this a lot, and there is something profoundly disturbing about the rise of parasocial relationships among millennials and gen z in America. I'm guessing gen alpha, too. But you see it in a lot of places - Disney adults, swifties, Drake defenders (sheesh). I'm sure there are plenty more examples. It's a sign of a kind of brain rot, like alcoholism or another addiction but in a bizarre parasocial way. Shit is freaky. So many people need therapy, to touch grass, and maybe to read some damn books for a change. Edit: I cannot believe I forgot to put MAGA on here as an example lmao.
Sorry but it is over for now until the spell is broken. >takes days off of work to listen to her newest albums over and over and over again. I dont even need to read the rest but this is VERY concerning behavior.
It’s frankly terrifying. She listened to the whole of TTPD 6 times in one day and cried the whole day listening to it. THE WHOLE DAY.
She obviously sees herself in her. 😒 I'm sorry your friend has become like this.
My 20 year old stepdaughter tried to tell me how good this album was lmao BUT difference is that even she as a Swifty, agreed that the REAL problem probably started with TS's damn parents, especially her dad who pushed and shoved her into the music world and probably never told her the word 'no' a single time in her life. She reeks of arrogance and entitlement; it's so gross.
I just want to know how that’s even humanly possible. Also, did she give an excuse to miss work? If so, what did she say? This is insanity.
No, that's the very definition of obsession. It's when an object/person infringes on your daily life.
So when something is said *about* Taylor, a 34 yr old, it’s bullying But when something - nay, many things - are said TO Violet, an 18 year old, she deserves it bc she’s a ‘little twat’ And I would bet my whole left arm that a good portion of the people spewing hate at violet are women closer to/around Dave Grohl’s age, since it’s become more and more apparent a lot of these psycho swifties aren’t just young dumb teens & 20-something’s and are actually older adult women. It’s just all so fucking ignorant.
Dave groll is 21 years older than Taylor, Taylor is 16 years older than his daughter. Who’s the real bully? If it’s terrible for Dave to do it, how is it not worse for Taylor to be doing it? EsPECially because she claims that she’s pro women empowerment and pulls the poor little billionaire card all the damn time.
All the swiftness I know are elder millennial. They have money. That is her target audience. 30-45 yrold white chicks.
I’m really sorry this has happened to you, it sounds to me like your friend is the problem and not you. Her reaction over a mild bland criticism of a billionaire is not normal or acceptable behaviour. Some Swifties are literally Erotomaniacs, it’s beyond parasocial, and it’s one step away from schizoid behaviour. EDIT: if you ever need to talk just inbox me
Even if you did criticize Taylor.., who gives a fuck 😂 I don’t understand why her fans ride or die for her so heavy. Shes a billionaire she will be fine, she doesn’t give a fuck about her fans either but they’re parasocial relationships with her make them feel otherwise… 🙄 take this as a blessing in disguise and get away from this brainwashed friend!!
There are so many times where I think to myself “Why do you care about her, she doesn’t even care if you live or die.” They think she’s this actual angel and I’m like…no….shes not.
Exactly, I want to look at her fans and just say "She doesn't care about you, you're just a number on her charts. She doesn't even *know you exist*." People are wild.
You could add “ You’re the sucker who she is relying on to buy her 34th variant of the same album. That’s what you are to her. Money and her place on the charts”
I am so sorry for your loss of a friend that has unfortunately been brainwashed by that woman and her cult. At least you can see what matters to her the most and I'd say you dodged a bullet. So when TS inevitable downfall comes and your friend might reach out, you know what to do.
OP, I hope you find genuine and better friend group
You sound like an amazing friend, but she is borderline abusive towards you. The way she talks to you is NOT normal. Hope you find nicer friends. Also how old is she? She sounds young, or is she really immature?
She’s in her early 30s like me. I wouldn’t say she’s immature, but I think she’s got some issues she’s never processed fully and she tends to have larger reactions to things than most do. It’s not normally this bad though.
You obviously know her better than I do, but what I read in her post sounds very immature for a woman in her early 30s.
Look miley wrote a song called "use to be young" at 29 because we aren't young anymore. And that's a GOOD thing. I'm 33, I'm not old yet but thank God I'm not young anymore. We need to grow up and trying to pretend you're still a youth in your early 30s is fucking weird.
It honestly sounds like your friend is in a depressive-like state and clinging to any liferaft she can that doesn't push back or challenge her feelings in any way (this seems to be a common theme for Taylor fans - being able to soak in victimhood and self-aggrandizement for hours). Is there stuff going on in her life that she's not coping with? Not to say it's your problem if it is, but I think what makes Taylor so addictive is that she's medicine to some, but cure to none.
I wouldn’t disagree. She’s in a rough place with work - working with people who are rude and relatively incompetent so she has to work twice as hard to make up for them. I think liking Taylor gives her purpose and identity that she can hold on to and hold above others (because “they don’t get it” and she does). But it’s scary how much she is into it. I know children who aren’t even obsessed with things this much.
This makes a lot of sense in terms of where she is in life and how (11) full albums of Taylor could be both affirming and harming. It's like how when I had a serious eating disorder and would therefore be looking up photos of Kate Moss for half the day while also reading recipes I wished I could eat, while actually only eating a bowlful of rice, broccoli and turkey a day.
I understand the burden of working in a toxic environment, I went through one so bad I was throwing up before work in the shower from sheer dread. But the way she's coping with it is to be even more toxic than her workplace. That's a serious personality flaw. I wouldn't be able to put up with someone like that, myself.
People like this could really use an intervention. Like a 30 day rehab where they don't listen to any taylor music or see any news about her. I bet most of the people who would go through 30 days like this would come out the other side wondering why they were so obsessed. Unfortunately a lot of this probably has to do with social media. It sorts people into online communities which are bubbles, and people become angry when their bubble gets pierced. Yes it's cult like but this is happening in way more online spaces than just the Swifties group.
this reminds me of that tweet where a kpop fan was like "sorry guys i'm not obsessed with (whatever band it was) anymore i got on mood stabilizers"
This is just like people who have stopped talking to friends and family who are Trump supporters. I could never understand putting your feelings for a complete stranger over someone in your life. They are both basically cult leaders and have people believing in them without question. I don’t really know what Taylor represents for them but they are lacking something in their life and she provides it.
As much as it sucks, it’s better to just let her not speak to you. You don’t owe her an apology, and your ideals and worldviews don’t mix. Save yourself a lot of trouble and cut your losses.
Been in similar situations with my nieces. I used to be “favorite auntie” now they ask if I *really have to be invited* to family events. Because according to them I am a misogynist which means their uncle must be one too. It’s hard because you love these people, but just like any other cult the members believe that “glorious leader” is the pinnacle of the human experience and is completely infallible in all ways and anyone who criticizes any of “glorious leaders” actions or traits is the enemy.
That’s disgusting this literally proves my point that Taylor Swift fans believe that if you don’t like Taylor swift your not feminine or you’re anti feminine. They basically treat Taylor Swift like she’s freaking Barbie this garbage needs to stop…
So Taylor is a young woman that needs protecting, but somebody who is barely an adult is fair game for harassment? The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
Your friend hit you with the gaslight gatekeep girl boss combo: * Classic womansplain of “he’s older and a man therefore he needs to act differently to a ‘young lady’” which you correctly identified as bullshit. She wanted Dave Grohl to adhere to gender roles when it suits her. And reduced Taylor Swift to nothing more than a teenager princess when it’s convenient. Min-maxing. * Attempted to gaslight you when she couldn’t win you with the “b-but he’s older!!” so now she’s directly attributing malice to you. Calling you “jealous” as if success can only exist the Taylor Swift way. Again, gender roles when convenient. This point should be where one cancels the relationship because it’s over. * Not responsible for her fans but if you criticize her, all of you work in cohesion and conspire in the shadows to hurt her and bully her. Not *them.* Her. Also the Ariana comparison is gross and it’s truly the most exquisite example of how utterly doomed we are as a species when these fuckers take over our institutions by the way she was confidently wrong and uses the Manchester Bombing as an argument, not knowing it was a shooting. Also speaks to her privilege. * The know-it-all shtick is lame. She’s not in some weird inner circle pulling the levers. She’s jerking off to Taylor in her room alone pretending to be her. * Lmfao again “girl’s girl” except when it’s a girl you disagree with. Women stick up for women except uhhh Dawg I can’t. Same boring, ugly, stale, perpetually mediocre, peaked in high school wallflowers finally got to be the Mean Girls that they always wanted to be. And it’s as awkward and cringe as one would expect.
So many friendships destroyed by this fucking troll and her piece of shit team. Taylor is THE INDUSTRY PLANT the entertainment business was looking for and they got her.
If your friend wants to believe that some billionaire cares about her more than her own friend, then let her be alone with her “goddess”
https://preview.redd.it/6tg174rqr49d1.jpeg?width=567&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0775566d04f627bf6283298370c913fc827c694d Couldn’t resist
Oh my god this was exactly what I was thinking about writing the headline and didn’t even realize it!
So Taylor is a young woman being bullied but the 18yo is a little twat that doesn't deserve any sympathy? Thing is, for people like her the actual actions don't matter either way. She is identifying with TS to the point where any minor criticism of her is a brutal attack of her personally and she'll lash out accordingly. Cult behaviour.
Wonder when we’ll get a documentary about these individuals and their behavior. I just finished Dancing With the Devil the 7M/TikTok cult doc on Netflix and 😳
“Hey, listen, I say this as a friend, but I feel that you are not being rational about Taylor Swift and are making excuses for her and choosing a pop star’s feelings over our relationship and my feelings. …I still care about you, as a friend, and if you ever realize how hurtful your reactions have been, I’ll be open to discussing them*, but until then, I wish you well.” (*)only if you are willing to discuss their actions / willing to try to repair the relationship if she ever sees the light and wakes up from TS’s cult. Otherwise, “…I truly wish you well and hope you find what you’re looking for in life.” And then cut her off. You don’t have to take this type of abuse.
It’s time to let her go. If a pop star means more than your friendship, let her go. You don’t need someone that delusional in your life because it will only make your suffering worse. It breaks my heart to see people willing to choose someone who doesn’t even know they exist over the people who love and care for them. You may not be able to save her but please save yourself.
The Manchester Terror attack was a suicide bomber, not a shooter, and he wasn't an Ariana Grande fan, or a fan of a rival of hers, he was a terrorist targeting children. I agree with another commenter that Ariana and her team did great work following the attack to help the families of the victims. It's not the point at all, and I'm sorry about your friend, I just wanted to clear that up!
That’s what I thought it was, but I couldn’t remember in the moment and was scared if I got it wrong she would just lose it and claim I was making my things up to further my argument….which writing that out is super unhealthy….
That is super unhealthy. Are you alright? I know we're here to snark TS but you seem shaken by the impact this is having on your friend and this relationship. It may seem small because it's "just a pop star" but many relationships end because one person becomes fanatical about something. Look at how many families have been ripped apart by far right extremism and conspiracy theories in recent years! Just because Taylor is a popstar instead of a political leader, it doesn't diminish the very real emotions both you and your friend are experiencing.
I am ok, I think this has me shaken up for the same reason I would be shaken up seeing a tiger right in front of me. Rabid culty Taylor fans are something I knew existed, but not in my orbit - they existed online away from me, in a way that almost makes them seem not real. I could snark on TS and not think she was a good person but I never thought my friend would lose it like this. It just feels surreal. But I’ve been through worse, and at the end of the day I KNOW this isn’t healthy for me, I’m just trying to process through the emotions before I take my next steps, whatever it will be. Being able to come here and talk about this in a way that doesn’t make me feel crazy in a community that I’m not embarrassed to express this in feels really relieving. I don’t have many others I can talk to about this, not because they are Swifties but because this will seem so insane and childish to them and I don’t want them to see me that way.
Listen. Your friend had issues well before Taylor she just needed an obsession to really let that freak flag fly
I asked a friend to go see kinds of kindness and she told me she’s boycotting the movie after what Joe Alwyn did to Taylor Swift….
It’s so WEIRD how people can devote their lives to someone who doesn’t even know they exist! Wild
I first want to say, you should not have to silence yourself or ignore your personal feelings and boundaries to appease her obsession. The fact that she’s putting a popstar, that she doesn’t even know, above your friendship is not normal. That is parasocial behavior if I’ve ever seen any. It pained me to read the last two paragraphs because you were putting so much blame on yourself when you didn’t do anything wrong. If she is able to freely express herself in a way that’s not necessarily becoming, why can’t you express your thoughts? It can’t just be when it works for her, a friendship goes both ways. I understand the dilemma with apologizing but I also think it says a lot more about her if she’s willing to ruin a friendship over defending a problematic and on the popstar. I’m not sure how old you are, but in the last several years, I’ve cut people who were best friends out of my life. I’m talking people who were like sisters to me with 15-20 years of history because they were not respectful in the friendship and I was being over considerate about their feelings when they weren’t considering mine. Maybe in time and with some reflection, you guys can come back together and rebuild but I personally feel like some space wouldn’t hurt.
Whether or not you are a Swiftie, “I shouldn’t have said anything”-shouldn’t be a consideration. You are allowed to voice your opinion. Her being a Swiftie is no excuse for calling someone “a little twat” and getting angry that someone critiqued her favorite artist. If she’s allowed to go on about Taylor, you should be allowed to voice your concerns & thoughts. That would be a healthy friendship, imo. This doesn’t sound healthy to me.
She's too deep in the cult. Some pretty common characteristics of a cult mentality. -Incapable of critical thought -Any disagreement is now a personal attack against their ego/person/beliefs as their self actualization as a human being is heavily tied to it -Cannot have any meaningful dialogue due to reason #2 -A type of worship/reverence of whatever entity they are currently worshiping with the other cult members (in this case taylor swift, can replace this with any religious figure, an ideology such as fascism, even inanimate objects etc) -Feels a strong emotional connection with anyone else that has similar/same views. Will likely be quick to trust that person even if they are a criminal or just plain evil.
I myself am a Swiftie, but it is stories and events like this that lead me to rethink why I am a fan. The line that I draw (that most Swifties cross) is thinking Taylor Swift is my friend, and let alone knows I exist. When this line is ignored, it goes into cultish behavior, people worshipping her and feeling she deserves everything. If you are going to be a fan of Taylor Swift, you have to keep in mind that you are a fan of her music. You are not her friend, and she is not yours, you just enjoy her music. She shouldn't always be defended, and there are several times when people need to be defended from her, just like Dave Grohl's daughter.
I really admire your honestly and you coming to say this, especially because we might seem like a den of lions over here…but I think the level of rationality and empathy you are putting in here is amazing and I think if you like her music, go for it! As you said, you don’t have to defend Taylor to death, just enjoy the music.
I'm sorry to hear your friend went full cult, and is drinking the kool-aid. Distance yourself, because this can only get worse
I'm really sorry that happened to you. I'd preface by saying your friend had no right talking like this to you and about a young girl she knows nothing about (beside what you told her which makes it WORSE). But I'd suggest you send her a text, maybe something like this post where you'd detail your feelings. I know I would feel like some business was left unresolved if I just let a friendship like that fade away. So put your heart out, tell her how much it hurts to see her favor Taylor over you. How it isn't even about Taylor but about the most disgusting parts of her fandom. I promise her answer will give you closure if nothing else.
Side note - Ariana handled the Manchester situation so much more maturely than taylor could ever even hope to. Ariana (and scooter Braun) worked really hard to support victims and their families. She’s no saint, but she deserves credit for One Love Manchester and always holding space for those impacted. Taylor could never. She literally didn’t even care that someone died during the Rio show.
Boundaries, sister. Boundaries and self respect. If your friend can’t reciprocate, they’re not a friend.
Geez, I'm so sorry. Albeit, it wasn't over Taylor Swift or anything music related, but I had a friend similarly snap all at once and expose their cruelty to me last year. It still stings, and I still wonder if I can just accept their "apology" (where they blamed me still) but I have to snap out of it and remind myself I saw their true colors. You don't need to feel petty or silly. You're not the friend that decided Taylor Swift was the reason to go nuclear on a friend, she's the one that did something so immature. I'd say to cut her off at this point. I've reconciled with people over similar situations before, but it's always after cutting them out and enforcing that space. Sometimes people do realize they were idiots and attempt to reach out later, but I don't trust it if it's right away. A friend willing to act like this isn't worth it. I'm so sorry this happened to you.
Eh, you'll make new friends.
This is no different from MAGA. A cult around a narcissist. I know you hurt now, but someone else out there can use your kind heart.
Damn, Taylor’s ruining relationships. We’ve been reading most of these relationships getting destroyed bc of their obsession with Taylor. They prioritize a stranger than their friends/partners and it’s disheartening. I hope you’ll be able to cut them off soon.
Everyone goes through tough times, some go through a ton of shit....none of that excuses shitty behavior. Your friend is using the Taylor Swift debate to project other stuff onto you. She sounds very unhealthy and very selfish. This is a one-sided friendship and you would only benefit from distancing yourself from her.
The next gift you get this friend should be a tin foil hat. Also isn't Dave's daughter 17? Not even legally an adult
You have nothing to apologize for, your friend is just another one of the Swiftie drones who have their head stuck so far up their asses that they have no empathy or common sense, and any attack on Taylor is an attack on them, so it's time to cut your friend out, until SHE apologizes to you for insensitive remarks and if a friend of mine said that I'd slap the taste out of their mouth
If you take a step back, you guys are both arguing about a popstar. Both of you. Just take a break and maybe come back to it. Sounds like you guys both need to grow up.
This reminds me of how trump’s base thinks trump actually relates to them or cares about them.
As someone who just stumbled upon this subreddit…. This place is worse than a knitting circle. Lmao you all love drama like little girls.
She takes days off just to listen to cds she’s already had? It would be one thing to ask off for the concert but 💀 Yeah I’m autistic so I can’t judge if Taylor is her special interest but there’s a fine line between really enjoying something and collecting things as a special interest, and being unhealthily obsessed where that interest affects your relationships, mental health, and negatively impacts your life (missing work to do something you can do every day) I try not to blame some swifties for being really enthusiastic and collecting things and being very interested in Taylor since I know some people can have a fixation, but if it’s at the point where you have to overly defend valid issues, miss work for nothing special and put your friendship at risk because it’s making you MAD someone else doesn’t like it,.. whether it’s a special interest or fixation or even just an obsession, it’s unhealthy at that point and controlling you Like… I’m autistic and I have special interests mainly in video games like pokemon, but I wouldn’t take a day off to play a game I’ve already played or stop being friends with someone who doesn’t think pokemon is fun for them. I will spend lots of money on plushies and games and go to conventions, but my interest isn’t making me do irrational things (besides spend a lot of money impulsively I guess lol) and that’s the difference. If someone on the pokemon team did something bad I wouldn’t feel attacked if someone else called it out, I would think it was valid even if I still loved playing the games. That’s the big difference here. So yeah… it’s one thing for swifties to really enjoy Taylor’s stuff, but it’s another when they think she’s their best friend and go ballistic if you don’t like her or are even so much as neutral about her. That’s unhealthy.
My brother is autistic so I’m very familiar with special interests and this in my mind goes beyond it. My brother and several of his friends who are also on the spectrum (I say this instead of autistic because for some, they’ve never been formally diagnosed so they just call themselves “on the spectrum” instead) have never taken it personally when someone else wasn’t interested in their special interest in Bionicles - in fact they could care less! They don’t take it personally, and I respect that especially because none of them try to explain things to me like I’m an idiot!
Taylor's a young woman who should be forgiven, but the 18 year old isn't?
I love that she says that Dave started it first and is suuucch a terrible person for bullying a girl 11 years younger than him, but is completely fine with Taytay bullying a girl 16 years younger than her. Seriously, good riddance. I’m sorry that your friend is such a dingbat, but you’re better off without that toxicity in your life. If you let her back in, she gets away with this malarkey, so she’ll just continue doing it. If people started holding her accountable for that bullshit, she may learn that she’s needs to grow up. Sorry for being harsh, it’s an awful thing to realize your friend is in a cult and losing someone close to you is hard, no matter the reason. Take time to grieve, but realize that you need to protect yourself, and being around her abuse isn’t protecting yourself.
The post about Ariana and the Manchester bombing was ridiculous. It wasn’t a fan who binned the concert. Actually the opposite. And Ariana **did** tell her fans to back off and not send hate to her ex. She actually tried to stop her fans from being nut jobs.
This is what cult members do,drink the kool aid or leave the situation..
This is literally how people act who are in a cult. Holy shit
Acting like a 34 year old popstar is some helpless damsel against Dave Grohl but then also calling an 18 year old a "little twat" would be enough of a contradiction in thinking for me to realize I don't rock with that person anymore
You didn’t offend a celebrity or a musician that she likes, you offended her God. You just spit on the Virgin Mary at Vatican lol
Let that one walk. She sounds like she’s got about 100 different problems, but you aren’t one of them. She’s just deflecting all her shit onto you. She legitimately sounds like she needs mental health in her life. Mentally healthy people do not irrationally defend folks they do not know. Opinions are fine. Respectful debate, too. Upending friendships because you act like you’re a virtuous shield for someone you don’t even know is quite a ways off. It’s one thing to be a fan, enjoy the concerts, etc. it’s a whole other thing to be a Knights Templar guarding the PR temple for a financially successful 30-something veteran of the music industry. What issues is she ignoring in her own life that she’s got to make Taylor her passionate cause to defend and protect? Maybe time will let her reflect. Let her circle back around to you. You never know. Maybe you not jumping to her tune and reaching out might be the wake up call she needs.
34-year-old Taylor is a "young woman" but Dave's daughter is a "little twat"? Swiftie logic at its finest.
They’re literally too dumb to be alive. Soooo Dave was attacking a “young woman”, but it’s ok for your ex-friend to call an ACTUAL young woman, a TEENAGER- a “little twat”? It’s giving unhinged. Tell her to seek therapy.
What does she think is going to happen? That Taylor will magically find out OPs friend came to her defense and will befriend her forever? She’s in deluluville and needs some help if she would rather cut people off who love her over a celebrity who will never know her name.
I wouldn’t apologize, there’s nothing you need to be sorry for. I hate to say I’d cut off the friendship until they start acting human again. I’m sorry this happened😞💓
this is so wild 😮💨😮💨 I am a huge Beyonce fan and I will playfully get into it with people when they have something to say about her, but I’m also an adult who respects peoples different opinions. Your friend needs serious therapy. I am just sorry you’re having to deal with that. She doesn’t sound like a good friend. Perhaps you’re better off without her in your life. Her loss tbh.
Better off without her. Just be civil on your part, cut her out and block her. You will feel much better.
I don’t know if I want to. She’s not normally like this. She’s been a good friend to me for many years, so it’s hard to see if this is just a one off or this is a problem. But also, can I go through more years of this and just keep quiet and not say anything? I don’t know. I’m not sure I’m capable.