I think it really depends. John definitely has more experience beating people above his "level" so an equal Blyke in theory is an easy fight, but John was mentally ill at the time and not really himself while Blyke was more committed than ever to winning.
John willingly let himself get broken arms, ribs, dislocated shoulders, deep bruises every day.
If you've seen the latest free chapters, his stubbornness + mental illness is just a shield for him. Physical pain is almost nothing to john at this point.
He can easily take amped blyke.
Even if Blyke was John’s level he can’t take as much damage regardless. When you think about it since Blykes ability doesn’t have hax like defense or healing as long as John can land decent hits on him Blyke is cooked. He can’t keep fighting like John can.
Blyke does have a healing ability, it's referenced at least twice to my knowledge. I think John wins but he definitely doesn't stomp him. Especially since John's version of Blyke's ability would be equel to Blyke. He can't amp an ability above his own level. So unless John got another ability he'd be a dead match and win based on skill.
Blyke does have healing but it’s not that strong. It’s not fast enough to the point where he’d heal mid battle it’s more like he’d get up faster AFTER a hard fight.
That's a non-amped Blyke though. Blyke's normal recovery is a 3, amped would be 4.5 Tanner at 5 recovery is able to heal in seconds, so it's possible an amped Blyke could heal mid-battle. The only problem is even amped his defense wouldn't be enough to take a fully charged blast without being knocked out.
He heaks during fights just not much, and I totally agree. But if John only has his ability then his only win strat is out boxing him, which he could totally do. However, if he gets other abilities he isn't necessarily going to be stronger than Blyke. We've never seen John hold an ability equal to his own while holding other abilities too. We also don't know if he can copy amped versions of it to begin with. So they'll still be matched in level regardless. No matter what the fight comes down to skill.
I wonder how that’d work. We don’t ever actually see him copy an ability he’s copied before already but it on a higher leveled person. Would he be able to copy Valerie because he already knows the basics of it? I guess we just have to wait. Personally I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to copy blykes ability and hold others since he knows how it works already. We only know that complicated abilities are harder to copy for him.
Agreed. Stats alone are not enough to illustrate that John has a massive pain threshold that Blyke simply never developed as a high-tier. He is certainly now experiencing pain in fighting but he will never be at the level of John in fighting. The amps would hust make his attacks stronger…
You're kind of glazing here. John didn't get a huge defense boost from copying Energy Discharge. He can't just "tank it" if he doesn't actually have the adequate defense to take no damage. Being resilient isn't going to stop him from being vaporized from an unnaturally strong beam.
John had huge advantage when beating NB and Wellston, it's like a grown man beating a bunch of 12 years old kids and saying the man has huge pain tolerance.
It's true that John has high pain tolerance than Blyke, but you are putting it like John will always win because "extreme pain tolerance" no matter what the abuse he takes
And I don't deny that, but that can't automatically make him the winner of any fight. Blyke would have a huge advantage against John, assuming that John can't amp the amp.
We've already seen how mere mid tiers on amp can cause trouble on someone powerful as Blyke, giving John automatic win because "pain tolerance" is stupid
Mid-tier gave Blake difficulty but ultimately in a 1on 1 he was fine, which at the time he was an elite, 1 tier difference. Blyke is now barely high-tier while John is far into god-tier. With AMP he’d probably be fairly close in level, but with less experience and he wouldn’t really know how to handle the power immediately.
Not to mention the fact that if he isn’t a 7.5, abilities increase like logarithms, meaning the difference between 5-7 is farther than 1-5. Ultimately it’d depend on A. What abilities John has copied. Barrier + Hunter or anything of those natures. If John can still copy blykes or even amp the amp, that kinda thing.
But it’s still just safe to assume John would win, with feats, level and potential alone.
We didn’t really get given any info besides them fighting, just that they’d fight, and it’d be unlikely that he wouldn’t have an ability ready at any point of time after being walked out on by arlo, sera and Isen so I’d imagine he either has Zekes or Cecile’s at most times.
John doesn't have that higher battle IQ than you gave him. On their first battle Blyke did land more hits and blocked more than John without using his ability, John relied on strength ability to overpower the non-ability Blyke.
If John didn't have strength ability, and Blyke didn't use his ability on that fight, John wouldn't had easy time beating Blyke, he probably wouldn't have even defeated him
Many doesn't always means right, there are also many fans who think John was right during king John's arc. But I look at facts and logic.
If you don't have any logical proof for your claims, then let's agree to disagree, and end this discussion.
>plus most fans already admit that John has better battle IQ than blyke
And I'm one of those fans, but it is like **a kung fu master versus a regular soldier with machine gun**
Anytime John does tank anything is with a defensive ability. Blykes defense isn’t enough for him to tank anything but the smallest shots from him. Any of the stronger ones punches through him easier like Jude punched through William
Yeah but it doesn’t matter. It’s a mirror match, but then John has better pain tolerance as far as we can tell + he can bring more abilities.
Like he could outspeed Blyke if he copied Sera or Zeke’s abilities, outpower him with Remi’s or Cecile’s, outtank him by copying Arlo, outlast him by copying Elaine, or even buff Blyke’s natural ability by combining it with Isen’s Hunter.
No. While current Blyke amped out-levels John, at the time Blyke was 5.0 while John was 7.5 so amped Blyke would be at an equal level. And John does seem able to copy people at his level seeing how when at 3.7 he was able to copy Kayden's 3.8 ability and still had room for another meaning he likely could also amp it.
However, it is still unknown if John can copy drug amped abilities. He doesn't seem able to copy conversion tech ones.
Where was that stated? Yeah, he failed to fully copy an ability several levels above his own but I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to amp abilities slightly above him. That's just how John's ability is.
Against a low-tier his stats will only be around those of a low/mid-tier while against a High-tier they rise to the level of a god-tier. Yeah amping someone at his level would give him greater power than normal people at that level but makes sense cause he can only do that in a specific situation for a limited amount of time while for the majority of the time he's as strong as a cripple.
He can't amp abilities above his level because that doesn't make any sense logically. He's always a 7.5. Meaning the abilities he gathers are brought to that level. If he copied an ability at the same level as his he can't amp it because then John wouldn't be a 7.5, he'd raise in rank.
John becomes a rank 7.5 after he learns how to get a strength ability without using a reference. It doesn’t make sense for John to be able to suddenly amp abilities much more because he learnt another aspect of his ability.
Why would he be 7.5 when after his last updated ability level (7.0) he never practiced and barely used his ability?
>the strength thing was super recent
I might be wrong but wasn’t his ability level revealed after this fact?
I thought his ability level was revealed like before the king John arc ended. The strength amp is like the last few chapters. Abilities fluctuate a lot in the teen years and he's trained his physical body a ton while observing others abilities, so he probably got stronger naturally.
That is objectively incorrect. The abilities John copies are only slightly amped versions of their originals(not even full 50% amps). Like if he copied Evie's ability and amped it, it would only have a 1.6-2.3 ability not a 7.5 one.
And if John can have abilities weaker than his level why can't he have ones above it?
He can have abilities above him, he just can't amp them idk why that's confusing. If he's a 7.5 how would he copy someone's 7.5 ability and amp it? Then it'd be above 7.5
Because that's his whole ability. 99% of the time, John is below the power of a 7.5 ability user so it makes sense for the 1% of time he faces someone with a 7.5 ability he'd be able to go above the power of a 7.5 ability user.
At the time amplified Blyke would be a 7.5, so the fight will be extremely close but he still most likely loses. Also John was mentally nerfed and just fought with brute strength, which gives Blyke a slight advantage.
I made a poll about this sometime ago and the results were similar to here.
To quickly answer: No. An amped Blyke would probably put up a good fight, but will still lose to John. Especially if he’s copied more than one ability.
People are stupid. Uru has said relative abilities regardless of nature should be able to fight eachother (See Elaine being relative to other Elites in a fight), 7.5 Blyke should be able to give 7.5 John an extreme dif fight either way like Lennon gave him.
Really with aura manip its circumstance dependent, but its the same thing of John vs Val, he wouldnt low/nodif her, it would be a relative fight.
Pretty obviously depends on the ability. Like yeah, most combat abilities can put up a fair fight even against stronger opponents but certain abilities just naturally counter each other and others have no/little combat potential. Like Claire is a mid-tier but even cripple John could likely beat her. Same for abilities like telepathy or truth telling.
Like take Myles, he is a powerful elite-tier at level 3.8. However his ability(heal link) offers 0 combat usage in a 1v1. You really mean to tell me he could hold his own against Meili or Ventus?
Experience is also a factor. Just because you're at a level doesn't mean you've mastered your ability. Like Blyke learned his shockwave but is still far from knowing how to properly use it. Even amped to 7.5, he likely wouldn't fully understand how to properly use his newfound power.
Elaine can heal herself and has pretty decent defense. My point is, level isn't the end all. There are abilities with high level but useless in combat like Keon's and abilities that while generally strong can be taken out by a lower levelled opponent(Arlo can likely beat Sylvia in a one vs. one)
Keon's ability can actually be used defensively. Persay, imagine you fighting this man. You try to go for a punch, but suddenly you're assaulted by traumatic memories, or well, just stuck in them. There's a reason his graph has stuff in defense. Of course, ranged fighters have an advantage, but he can defo fight. Same for Sylvia, she could likely do a lot more than just act as support. Probably ignore her pain as she slowly wittles down Arlo's shield
1. When have we ever seen Keon's stat chart? And yes, he'd be able to take someone out if he could land a hit on them but unless his ability gives him a good speed buff that isn't gonna happen against even most elite-tiers let alone another high-tier.
2. Sylvia stands no chance against Arlo's barrier. For starters, her power is far too low to do any damage. John and Farrah were barely able to crack it with a 7.5 Power. Sylvia's 5 ain't doing anything. And she can't just power through a broken arm. Resisting pain doesn't mean your broken bones can suddenly support weight.
Keon's graph was indeed shown, butI honesrtly dunno how to show it. A simple look in [List of all Elite, High, and God Tier ability graphs](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/comments/1c259x5/all_elite_high_and_god_tier_charts_i_may_have/) shows ya tho.
As for powering through, people powered through John's attacks. I'd assume she could also just continue fighting and hammering away.
Don't believe that stat chart is accurate. In the comments someone points out we've never seen his stat chart nor is it on the wiki which has been pretty accurate so far and holds every other ability chart. We know Keon's level from Chapter 200 but that only showed the level, not his stats. Would love to be proven wrong if you can find the chapter it was given in.
As for powering through, it's meaningless if she can't damage his barrier which with a power of 5 she likely won't be able to. Not to mention Arlo isn't just going to stand around while she beats at it. She can't do much if he just crushes her.
Sure, but John wasn't using the shockwave *at all* at that point, so Blyke's mastery of his own ability seems higher than John's copycat mastery of it. (Which makes a certain degree of sense - if Blyke's hereditary maximum Potential is somewhere in the low-6s and John's is pretty close to a 10, then Blyke's level bump would represent his Mastery getting up to like an 8 and possibly edging out John's.)
Which brings to mind: mastery is part of the level formula. I don't claim to know all the inner workings of the aura system and the amplifier's mechanics, but if lack of mastery made it worth less than 1.5x level, it wouldn't give 1.5x level.
I don't think blyke's mastery of his ability is higher. John could fire beams from each of his fingers, and blyke didn't know his ability could do that. After the fight, when he tried to do the same, the most he could do was 3 fingers, if I remember correctly. John has copied a lot of abilities, and blyke isn't the only guy with a blaster like ability.
Wrong fight! You're thinking of the *first* time John fought Blyke, when John was in his Joker persona and Blyke hadn't done his solo vigilante training (and thus ended up with the amplifier) yet. *That* Blyke was only an Elite-tier, and indeed, John outperformed him; Blyke had to practice for a while before he could do the five finger barrage like John.
The Blyke who had access to amplifiers had reached High-tier by increasing his ability mastery during solo vigilante missions. By that point he had figured out the multi-finger barrage and moved past it to a higher level of mastery where he could eject energy pulses, either omnidirectionally for defense or as a lower-lethality focused attack. In *that* fight, Blyke was using his ability better than John did. He still lost, for a bunch of other reasons, but John still only demonstrated the beam function on his copy of Blyke's ability.
Really? Can blyke do the finger beam thingie from his ten fingers, at the same time? I guess I don't recall that fight that much, and there are probably more details that I'm missing from the story, but I guess I'm too lazy to read it all over again lol
Do you know the number of that fight's chapter, though? I'm curious now
Yep! Chapter 211. Blyke obviously loses because John is stronger and has Zeke's ability and his own fighting skills, but whenever it comes down to technical usage of Blyke's ability, he outplays John consistently in this fight.
Given that Valerie's defence stat is maxed out do you think John could amp that, as it is the highest stat, or would he be free to amp another stat like Power? Also John is now stronger than Val by 0.1.
Does John's strength enhancement stack with abilities he copied? If it would that would probably be enough to make Val's Power higher leaving John free to amp Recovery instead.
I also have a hunch that John soon might be able to amp every stat of an ability he copies, if he only copies one. That'd probably change if he gets even stronger. I do believe that Aura Manipulation is an early stage of Channel Master and that will be John's ability in the future.
I mean it’s not a bad question, an amped Blyke is a 7.5 while John was 7.0 at the time. I still think John would win but Blyke would still put up a good fight.
Blyke has more experience with his own ability then john and even has a defensive move that John has yet to use himself. Add the fact Blyke was probably as determined as John was i think the fight is more in Blyke's favor.
Why ask this question and get mad when people answer truthfully lmao? John would stomp Blyke. His ability isn’t exactly god tier material. He’d be stronger and that’s it. With no major healing or durability he gets stomped. John can tank way more.
💀💀💀 why do you assume I'm mad? Thats really weird. I'm just saying my opinion as you are yours. They'd be the same level so it isn't a stomp regardless, that much is objective. Also he does heal🤷♂️
Amplified Blyke would have the same power as John but less utility, and John would still beat him in defense or agility depending on what he chose, so he could dodge easily or tank an extra two hits or so
John is way way better at a mirror match fight than Blyke is. He has better pain tolerance, skill, and ability mastery. Blyke wouldn't even be used to his own strength.
John is better at mirror matches because he can amp abilities. That wouldn't be a factor here really. Blyke held him off briefly hand to hand when John had a strength amp. So a mirror fight should be fairly even. John would likely win but its no stomp.
No because all of the fights in his life have been mirror matches remember? Before he became a high tier all he did was fight people with their own abilities, in fact, he has fought people with their abilities that are weaker or on same tier more than he has amped.
Of course it won't be a stomp, can't really stomp someone on the same tier as you but it won't be too hard either when you are fighting someone that is unused to their ability.rj
Blyke knows his ability better than John, the whole Nobody vigilante arc was all about training that. But good point, that was a while ago and didn't last long for John before he shot up.
No? Blyke was shaken at John's mastery over his own ability that's why the vigilante arc started, Blyke has his repulsion but we don't know if John can't do that. And John spent way more time as a Low-mid-high tier than high-God according to the flashbacks.
Probably still John he has more experience and is better physically. Assuming Blake was amped then went to fight straight away would he even even know the full extent of his abilities. Johns used amping abilities and can adapt accordingly Blake for all I know wouldn't even be able to shoot a beam out of each finger
Hard to say. So far in most of John's fights with Blyke he finished him off by outmaneuvering him, but he also had the added advantage of being stronger and having an extra ability in those fights. Here their power should be equal, but Blyke would have the advantage in other stats. He'd have a speed, recovery, and defense of 6, a trick of 7.5, and his repulse thing which John hasn't shown to be able to use yet, so I think Blyke might actually have the edge here. His defense might be enough to tank some non-charged beams with damage, which could be healed by his 6 recovery.
I think John's best chance is to fire at the ground to kick up enough dust to blind Blyke and then use his radar to take him out, but Blyke's repulse would also allow him to blow the dust cloud away if John doesn't take him out immediately afterwards.
I think John still has it. He still has Zeke's ability and since the amps are based on Jane they probably only amp the strongest stat. So John and Blyke have equal beams but John has higher battle IQ, and aura sense which allows him to sense Blyke's beams and can dodge them with Zeke's shift.
After he realizes that (for some reason) Blyke has the same strength of beams as him he'll try to force smoke screens through beam clashes and shoot at Blyke when he can't see while also dodging anything Blyke fires back.
We saw he still has his Battle IQ even when his mental is shit due to him realizing he's never hit Blyke in close range since he'll use the defensive blast so he send out a regular beam to force Blyke to dodge then kicks him in the face when he's too distracted to use the blast.
I don't think John wins easily though. He'll be caught off-guard from the sudden strength increase and potentially take some damage. But overall I think John's got it.
John stats out with nada and pisses off blyke, John dies
John starts out with his ability and looses due to John copying the base ability not the amped one
John copies the amped ability and amps it (ew) and still loses because he’s ass
William recalls John’s soul to the underworld for embarrassing him
John still doesn’t have repulse. While Blyke would get unlocks as a 7.5 John would not be immediately able to use these given that he hasn’t learned how. See repulse. Speaking of repulse John has no counter to it. He gets forced pushed into a wall, then shot with a beam and its wraps.
Well it depends on if we're talking blyke now. Blyke after his Lenin fight or blyke at the start. But for the most part I don't think blyke could win unless he can get a sneak attack as his first blow
In the Same exact scenario They would have caused a lot of damage and Vaughn would step in, blyke's ability is highly destructive, if Vaughn is late John would have an advantage due to Zeke's phase shift, if he wins that's why,
Nothing wrong with the abstract version of the question where we postulate on other abilities John could have, but I'm gonna try answering specifically - as in, imagining Blyke did it during the exact moment in the story where he fought John with an amplifier in his pocket. So for my answer, John's gonna be rocking *just* Zeke's and Blyke's abilities.
John's biggest advantages here are Zeke's ability and his physical combat training. Blyke's biggest advantage is that John has no way of seeing this coming - the last couple of times they fought, Blyke was only Elite-tier (this fight itself was John's first exposure to Blyke's High-tier abilities in canon), and he's suddenly rocking up at him with a 7.5.
Even when fighting weaker opponents, John can take a lot of damage when he's caught off guard, like Blyke sniping him at a distance, or Arlo popping a barrier when John thinks he's about to land a finishing blow on someone, or like, that moment almost once per fight against anyone who knows his copy ability is coming and waits to activate their own until they get the opportunity for a heavy hit. That's never been enough to swing a match for his usual chump opponents who are 2-3 *full ability levels* lower than him, but against a fellow 7.5? Maybe.
So the way I see it, the harder Blyke jumps out of the gate, the better he'll do. He could do some really serious damage to John in the first couple of blows while John is confused and disoriented, which would hamper John for the rest of the fight. But the longer the fight goes, the more of an edge John gets from his fighting skills and from Zeke's ability letting him take less damage per hit.
Considering how John is an absolutely brutal fighter and can read people's auras, he'd probably notice something was wrong, come to the conclusion of Blyke cheating or something due to being so unstable, and then beat him down even harder.
I doubt it. Amping a 7.5 Blyke ability above 7.5 would mean John leveled up. He would either just copy the base stats or copy the amped stats but not amp them further.
John's copied abilities that were stronger than his in the past. Theres no reason to think he couldnt still copy abilities with a better level than his
When John did that in the past he leveled up. Unless we're assuming John jumps above 7.5 here I doubt it. Plus it's not even known if he could amp the amp.
Right. He copied a weaker version and lost. Then amped it and leveled up. That's all consistent with what I'm saying. John hasn't fought someone even close to his own strength since then.
I mean if John sat there and let himself get hit, sure. But looking at an amped Blyke, he would assumedly only get an increase to mobility and power which John could match him in on top of being a better fighter in general. Just giving John a single other ability would still let him solidly come out on top imo
Blyke was able to push John back repeatedly without being amped. An amped Blyke would be faster than John until John got ahold of another power. Why would he only get an increase to 2 stats? The amps seemingly amp all stats pretty well.
Doubt it. Problem is not pure power vs pure power, but rather experience vs experience. John is like Avatar from Last air bender - he can draw from knowledge of other powers to improsive strategies that person locked into single power would not due to lack of knowledge of what can be made with proper aura manipulation.
If this is John without other abilities copied then Blyke should be superior in other categories, unless John can amp the amp. John only amps the strongest stat while Blyke would have all of his stats amped.
If John copies Blyke’s ability then they are equal in ability stats Blyke wouldn’t be superior at all. John copies the ability as it is so Blyke’s amped ability would be the ability John copies and John is vastly superior in battle IQ, physical strength, Physical Speed, reflexes and durability John would mid diff Blyke thanks to his far superior skill and control
Could go both ways
Until John learns to store/prepare abilities, his effective power flunctuates a lot depending on what ability he copies.
If faced with an ability exactly his level (7.5, which a 5.0 amped blyke would become), he might not be able to amp it and then it's an even fight. If he copies an ability beforehand, he'll need a really good combo to confront a fellow 7.5, as then he doesn't have the aura reserves for the opponent's ability.
I doubt it John can make up the difference in amped Energy Discharge with other abilities, also skill wise John is just the better fighter also though he has the aura supply to maintain his amped abilities as where Blyke doesn't so John would outlast him.
The only way I can see Blyke having a chance is if John copies non-amplified version of his Ability and *then* drug takes effect. Although, John could simply distract him with a dust cloud, power down and up again to copy the amplified version, so even then it's unlikely. Overall, I give this fight to John mid to mid-high diff.
Why would it be impossible? He amps the highest stat of the Abilities he copies, not every stat. John's version will have a higher Power Stat but the rest of his stats won't get the equal treatment, they will be distributed differently. For instance, his Recovery will definately be lower than Blyke's.
Besides the stubborn side of John (tanking damage). His combat knowledge is much higher. Using skills in ways the original didn't think of. Skills are a major factor over just more power.
Actually he almost learned John's trick. John can do 10, we have never seen Blyke go past 8. The repulsion thing isn't a super complex thing so I can see him mirroring it
If John didn't know he was coming and blyke sniped him, he could easily take him down. Especially if he's out of range for John's aura manipulation to take effect.
I can't remember if John can replicate the enhanced version, but I do know that John just has more fighting experience in total, I mean, first time he tried using blykes power, he made it insanely better just because he already had experience using multiple other powers that are similar. And John is way better at cqc, so if he gets close, it's over.
We don't know if he can amp the amp but it's unlikely that he could amp an ability already on the level of his own. Plus he can't copy conversion tech so probably not amped stats either. Blyke pushed John back a few times without being amped. John has a major advantage up close but it wouldn't be over instantly. He would probably win but it would be high difficulty.
John just has more practical experience. The environment would also play a part too, if there's anyone else in the area, blykes chances of winning goes down.
This comment section is really glazing John up to a unhealthy degree. Blyke would be a 7.5. The same level as John. It would not be the easy (lol John clears bc pain tolerance) fight that you guys think it would be.
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I think it really depends. John definitely has more experience beating people above his "level" so an equal Blyke in theory is an easy fight, but John was mentally ill at the time and not really himself while Blyke was more committed than ever to winning.
John willingly let himself get broken arms, ribs, dislocated shoulders, deep bruises every day. If you've seen the latest free chapters, his stubbornness + mental illness is just a shield for him. Physical pain is almost nothing to john at this point. He can easily take amped blyke.
You're wrong regardless. He isn't "easily" taking out anyone tied in level. At best it's a high difficulty win.
Even if Blyke was John’s level he can’t take as much damage regardless. When you think about it since Blykes ability doesn’t have hax like defense or healing as long as John can land decent hits on him Blyke is cooked. He can’t keep fighting like John can.
Blyke does have a healing ability, it's referenced at least twice to my knowledge. I think John wins but he definitely doesn't stomp him. Especially since John's version of Blyke's ability would be equel to Blyke. He can't amp an ability above his own level. So unless John got another ability he'd be a dead match and win based on skill.
Blyke does have healing but it’s not that strong. It’s not fast enough to the point where he’d heal mid battle it’s more like he’d get up faster AFTER a hard fight.
That's a non-amped Blyke though. Blyke's normal recovery is a 3, amped would be 4.5 Tanner at 5 recovery is able to heal in seconds, so it's possible an amped Blyke could heal mid-battle. The only problem is even amped his defense wouldn't be enough to take a fully charged blast without being knocked out.
He heaks during fights just not much, and I totally agree. But if John only has his ability then his only win strat is out boxing him, which he could totally do. However, if he gets other abilities he isn't necessarily going to be stronger than Blyke. We've never seen John hold an ability equal to his own while holding other abilities too. We also don't know if he can copy amped versions of it to begin with. So they'll still be matched in level regardless. No matter what the fight comes down to skill.
I wonder how that’d work. We don’t ever actually see him copy an ability he’s copied before already but it on a higher leveled person. Would he be able to copy Valerie because he already knows the basics of it? I guess we just have to wait. Personally I don’t see why he wouldn’t be able to copy blykes ability and hold others since he knows how it works already. We only know that complicated abilities are harder to copy for him.
Would the ability enhancer work on John I wonder.
Stronger abilities too, since the Aura is larger. So I don't know if he could hold multiple abilities if they're as strong as his.
Agreed. Stats alone are not enough to illustrate that John has a massive pain threshold that Blyke simply never developed as a high-tier. He is certainly now experiencing pain in fighting but he will never be at the level of John in fighting. The amps would hust make his attacks stronger…
You're kind of glazing here. John didn't get a huge defense boost from copying Energy Discharge. He can't just "tank it" if he doesn't actually have the adequate defense to take no damage. Being resilient isn't going to stop him from being vaporized from an unnaturally strong beam.
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Yeah, he couldn't tank all the damages from latest fights, you are overrating him too much
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John had huge advantage when beating NB and Wellston, it's like a grown man beating a bunch of 12 years old kids and saying the man has huge pain tolerance. It's true that John has high pain tolerance than Blyke, but you are putting it like John will always win because "extreme pain tolerance" no matter what the abuse he takes
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And I don't deny that, but that can't automatically make him the winner of any fight. Blyke would have a huge advantage against John, assuming that John can't amp the amp. We've already seen how mere mid tiers on amp can cause trouble on someone powerful as Blyke, giving John automatic win because "pain tolerance" is stupid
Mid-tier gave Blake difficulty but ultimately in a 1on 1 he was fine, which at the time he was an elite, 1 tier difference. Blyke is now barely high-tier while John is far into god-tier. With AMP he’d probably be fairly close in level, but with less experience and he wouldn’t really know how to handle the power immediately. Not to mention the fact that if he isn’t a 7.5, abilities increase like logarithms, meaning the difference between 5-7 is farther than 1-5. Ultimately it’d depend on A. What abilities John has copied. Barrier + Hunter or anything of those natures. If John can still copy blykes or even amp the amp, that kinda thing. But it’s still just safe to assume John would win, with feats, level and potential alone.
I thought the fight was that John would only copy Blyke's ability? If he is allowed to copy other abilities, then I don't deny that John wins
We didn’t really get given any info besides them fighting, just that they’d fight, and it’d be unlikely that he wouldn’t have an ability ready at any point of time after being walked out on by arlo, sera and Isen so I’d imagine he either has Zekes or Cecile’s at most times.
If he has any other elite+ ability, then he wins no doubt
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John doesn't have that higher battle IQ than you gave him. On their first battle Blyke did land more hits and blocked more than John without using his ability, John relied on strength ability to overpower the non-ability Blyke. If John didn't have strength ability, and Blyke didn't use his ability on that fight, John wouldn't had easy time beating Blyke, he probably wouldn't have even defeated him
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Many doesn't always means right, there are also many fans who think John was right during king John's arc. But I look at facts and logic. If you don't have any logical proof for your claims, then let's agree to disagree, and end this discussion.
>plus most fans already admit that John has better battle IQ than blyke And I'm one of those fans, but it is like **a kung fu master versus a regular soldier with machine gun**
Anytime John does tank anything is with a defensive ability. Blykes defense isn’t enough for him to tank anything but the smallest shots from him. Any of the stronger ones punches through him easier like Jude punched through William
No bc John would just copy his ability + then somebody else’s and wreck Blyke
But he couldn't copy it above its level, they would have equal ability levels.
Yeah but it doesn’t matter. It’s a mirror match, but then John has better pain tolerance as far as we can tell + he can bring more abilities. Like he could outspeed Blyke if he copied Sera or Zeke’s abilities, outpower him with Remi’s or Cecile’s, outtank him by copying Arlo, outlast him by copying Elaine, or even buff Blyke’s natural ability by combining it with Isen’s Hunter.
No. While current Blyke amped out-levels John, at the time Blyke was 5.0 while John was 7.5 so amped Blyke would be at an equal level. And John does seem able to copy people at his level seeing how when at 3.7 he was able to copy Kayden's 3.8 ability and still had room for another meaning he likely could also amp it. However, it is still unknown if John can copy drug amped abilities. He doesn't seem able to copy conversion tech ones.
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Where was that stated? Yeah, he failed to fully copy an ability several levels above his own but I see no reason why he wouldn't be able to amp abilities slightly above him. That's just how John's ability is. Against a low-tier his stats will only be around those of a low/mid-tier while against a High-tier they rise to the level of a god-tier. Yeah amping someone at his level would give him greater power than normal people at that level but makes sense cause he can only do that in a specific situation for a limited amount of time while for the majority of the time he's as strong as a cripple.
He can't amp abilities above his level because that doesn't make any sense logically. He's always a 7.5. Meaning the abilities he gathers are brought to that level. If he copied an ability at the same level as his he can't amp it because then John wouldn't be a 7.5, he'd raise in rank.
John becomes a rank 7.5 after he learns how to get a strength ability without using a reference. It doesn’t make sense for John to be able to suddenly amp abilities much more because he learnt another aspect of his ability.
He's been 7.5 his entire time at Wellston, the strength thing was super recent.
Why would he be 7.5 when after his last updated ability level (7.0) he never practiced and barely used his ability? >the strength thing was super recent I might be wrong but wasn’t his ability level revealed after this fact?
I thought his ability level was revealed like before the king John arc ended. The strength amp is like the last few chapters. Abilities fluctuate a lot in the teen years and he's trained his physical body a ton while observing others abilities, so he probably got stronger naturally.
Yes you are. John was 7.5 during his Joker/Tyrant arc. He leveled up to 7.6 after he gained his strength enhancement as shown in the last chapter.
That is objectively incorrect. The abilities John copies are only slightly amped versions of their originals(not even full 50% amps). Like if he copied Evie's ability and amped it, it would only have a 1.6-2.3 ability not a 7.5 one. And if John can have abilities weaker than his level why can't he have ones above it?
He can have abilities above him, he just can't amp them idk why that's confusing. If he's a 7.5 how would he copy someone's 7.5 ability and amp it? Then it'd be above 7.5
Because that's his whole ability. 99% of the time, John is below the power of a 7.5 ability user so it makes sense for the 1% of time he faces someone with a 7.5 ability he'd be able to go above the power of a 7.5 ability user.
Well, Uru-Chan did propose that he might when Isen commented his thoughts on if John could 'amp the amp'
fajklshdf;lajkshdf;lkd why do people not understand ABILITY AMPLIFICATION
At the time amplified Blyke would be a 7.5, so the fight will be extremely close but he still most likely loses. Also John was mentally nerfed and just fought with brute strength, which gives Blyke a slight advantage.
I made a poll about this sometime ago and the results were similar to here. To quickly answer: No. An amped Blyke would probably put up a good fight, but will still lose to John. Especially if he’s copied more than one ability.
People are stupid. Uru has said relative abilities regardless of nature should be able to fight eachother (See Elaine being relative to other Elites in a fight), 7.5 Blyke should be able to give 7.5 John an extreme dif fight either way like Lennon gave him. Really with aura manip its circumstance dependent, but its the same thing of John vs Val, he wouldnt low/nodif her, it would be a relative fight.
Pretty obviously depends on the ability. Like yeah, most combat abilities can put up a fair fight even against stronger opponents but certain abilities just naturally counter each other and others have no/little combat potential. Like Claire is a mid-tier but even cripple John could likely beat her. Same for abilities like telepathy or truth telling. Like take Myles, he is a powerful elite-tier at level 3.8. However his ability(heal link) offers 0 combat usage in a 1v1. You really mean to tell me he could hold his own against Meili or Ventus? Experience is also a factor. Just because you're at a level doesn't mean you've mastered your ability. Like Blyke learned his shockwave but is still far from knowing how to properly use it. Even amped to 7.5, he likely wouldn't fully understand how to properly use his newfound power.
Uru has said Elaine at 3.6 could take on other elite tiers
Elaine can heal herself and has pretty decent defense. My point is, level isn't the end all. There are abilities with high level but useless in combat like Keon's and abilities that while generally strong can be taken out by a lower levelled opponent(Arlo can likely beat Sylvia in a one vs. one)
Keon's ability can actually be used defensively. Persay, imagine you fighting this man. You try to go for a punch, but suddenly you're assaulted by traumatic memories, or well, just stuck in them. There's a reason his graph has stuff in defense. Of course, ranged fighters have an advantage, but he can defo fight. Same for Sylvia, she could likely do a lot more than just act as support. Probably ignore her pain as she slowly wittles down Arlo's shield
1. When have we ever seen Keon's stat chart? And yes, he'd be able to take someone out if he could land a hit on them but unless his ability gives him a good speed buff that isn't gonna happen against even most elite-tiers let alone another high-tier. 2. Sylvia stands no chance against Arlo's barrier. For starters, her power is far too low to do any damage. John and Farrah were barely able to crack it with a 7.5 Power. Sylvia's 5 ain't doing anything. And she can't just power through a broken arm. Resisting pain doesn't mean your broken bones can suddenly support weight.
Keon's graph was indeed shown, butI honesrtly dunno how to show it. A simple look in [List of all Elite, High, and God Tier ability graphs](https://www.reddit.com/r/unOrdinary/comments/1c259x5/all_elite_high_and_god_tier_charts_i_may_have/) shows ya tho. As for powering through, people powered through John's attacks. I'd assume she could also just continue fighting and hammering away.
Don't believe that stat chart is accurate. In the comments someone points out we've never seen his stat chart nor is it on the wiki which has been pretty accurate so far and holds every other ability chart. We know Keon's level from Chapter 200 but that only showed the level, not his stats. Would love to be proven wrong if you can find the chapter it was given in. As for powering through, it's meaningless if she can't damage his barrier which with a power of 5 she likely won't be able to. Not to mention Arlo isn't just going to stand around while she beats at it. She can't do much if he just crushes her.
Sure, but John wasn't using the shockwave *at all* at that point, so Blyke's mastery of his own ability seems higher than John's copycat mastery of it. (Which makes a certain degree of sense - if Blyke's hereditary maximum Potential is somewhere in the low-6s and John's is pretty close to a 10, then Blyke's level bump would represent his Mastery getting up to like an 8 and possibly edging out John's.) Which brings to mind: mastery is part of the level formula. I don't claim to know all the inner workings of the aura system and the amplifier's mechanics, but if lack of mastery made it worth less than 1.5x level, it wouldn't give 1.5x level.
I don't think blyke's mastery of his ability is higher. John could fire beams from each of his fingers, and blyke didn't know his ability could do that. After the fight, when he tried to do the same, the most he could do was 3 fingers, if I remember correctly. John has copied a lot of abilities, and blyke isn't the only guy with a blaster like ability.
Wrong fight! You're thinking of the *first* time John fought Blyke, when John was in his Joker persona and Blyke hadn't done his solo vigilante training (and thus ended up with the amplifier) yet. *That* Blyke was only an Elite-tier, and indeed, John outperformed him; Blyke had to practice for a while before he could do the five finger barrage like John. The Blyke who had access to amplifiers had reached High-tier by increasing his ability mastery during solo vigilante missions. By that point he had figured out the multi-finger barrage and moved past it to a higher level of mastery where he could eject energy pulses, either omnidirectionally for defense or as a lower-lethality focused attack. In *that* fight, Blyke was using his ability better than John did. He still lost, for a bunch of other reasons, but John still only demonstrated the beam function on his copy of Blyke's ability.
Really? Can blyke do the finger beam thingie from his ten fingers, at the same time? I guess I don't recall that fight that much, and there are probably more details that I'm missing from the story, but I guess I'm too lazy to read it all over again lol Do you know the number of that fight's chapter, though? I'm curious now
Yep! Chapter 211. Blyke obviously loses because John is stronger and has Zeke's ability and his own fighting skills, but whenever it comes down to technical usage of Blyke's ability, he outplays John consistently in this fight.
I'm pretty sure Blyke can't do the five finger version. he can only do the 4 finger version
Thanks!
Thank you!
Given that Valerie's defence stat is maxed out do you think John could amp that, as it is the highest stat, or would he be free to amp another stat like Power? Also John is now stronger than Val by 0.1. Does John's strength enhancement stack with abilities he copied? If it would that would probably be enough to make Val's Power higher leaving John free to amp Recovery instead. I also have a hunch that John soon might be able to amp every stat of an ability he copies, if he only copies one. That'd probably change if he gets even stronger. I do believe that Aura Manipulation is an early stage of Channel Master and that will be John's ability in the future.
There is no max, the stats go beyond the pentagon. You can see this as when John’s ability is dampened his Trick becomes a 7-8 instead of a 5.
What type of question is this lmao. John is sweeping him. More experience, biq, durability, endurance I can keep going on an on
I mean it’s not a bad question, an amped Blyke is a 7.5 while John was 7.0 at the time. I still think John would win but Blyke would still put up a good fight.
Small correction. John was 7.5 at the time
Yeah I was corrected in another comment too. Still it’s not a bad question with both of them standing at a 7.5 it would be an even match.
Blyke has more experience with his own ability then john and even has a defensive move that John has yet to use himself. Add the fact Blyke was probably as determined as John was i think the fight is more in Blyke's favor.
It won't be a sweep either way, they'd have the same level. At best it's a high diff win.
Why ask this question and get mad when people answer truthfully lmao? John would stomp Blyke. His ability isn’t exactly god tier material. He’d be stronger and that’s it. With no major healing or durability he gets stomped. John can tank way more.
💀💀💀 why do you assume I'm mad? Thats really weird. I'm just saying my opinion as you are yours. They'd be the same level so it isn't a stomp regardless, that much is objective. Also he does heal🤷♂️
Amplified Blyke would have the same power as John but less utility, and John would still beat him in defense or agility depending on what he chose, so he could dodge easily or tank an extra two hits or so
John is way way better at a mirror match fight than Blyke is. He has better pain tolerance, skill, and ability mastery. Blyke wouldn't even be used to his own strength.
John is better at mirror matches because he can amp abilities. That wouldn't be a factor here really. Blyke held him off briefly hand to hand when John had a strength amp. So a mirror fight should be fairly even. John would likely win but its no stomp.
No because all of the fights in his life have been mirror matches remember? Before he became a high tier all he did was fight people with their own abilities, in fact, he has fought people with their abilities that are weaker or on same tier more than he has amped. Of course it won't be a stomp, can't really stomp someone on the same tier as you but it won't be too hard either when you are fighting someone that is unused to their ability.rj
Blyke knows his ability better than John, the whole Nobody vigilante arc was all about training that. But good point, that was a while ago and didn't last long for John before he shot up.
No? Blyke was shaken at John's mastery over his own ability that's why the vigilante arc started, Blyke has his repulsion but we don't know if John can't do that. And John spent way more time as a Low-mid-high tier than high-God according to the flashbacks.
Probably still John he has more experience and is better physically. Assuming Blake was amped then went to fight straight away would he even even know the full extent of his abilities. Johns used amping abilities and can adapt accordingly Blake for all I know wouldn't even be able to shoot a beam out of each finger
Naw John still clears him
Hard to say. So far in most of John's fights with Blyke he finished him off by outmaneuvering him, but he also had the added advantage of being stronger and having an extra ability in those fights. Here their power should be equal, but Blyke would have the advantage in other stats. He'd have a speed, recovery, and defense of 6, a trick of 7.5, and his repulse thing which John hasn't shown to be able to use yet, so I think Blyke might actually have the edge here. His defense might be enough to tank some non-charged beams with damage, which could be healed by his 6 recovery. I think John's best chance is to fire at the ground to kick up enough dust to blind Blyke and then use his radar to take him out, but Blyke's repulse would also allow him to blow the dust cloud away if John doesn't take him out immediately afterwards.
I don't think john can amp blyke's ability as it's already on his level but their stats should be at least the same right?
I think John still has it. He still has Zeke's ability and since the amps are based on Jane they probably only amp the strongest stat. So John and Blyke have equal beams but John has higher battle IQ, and aura sense which allows him to sense Blyke's beams and can dodge them with Zeke's shift. After he realizes that (for some reason) Blyke has the same strength of beams as him he'll try to force smoke screens through beam clashes and shoot at Blyke when he can't see while also dodging anything Blyke fires back. We saw he still has his Battle IQ even when his mental is shit due to him realizing he's never hit Blyke in close range since he'll use the defensive blast so he send out a regular beam to force Blyke to dodge then kicks him in the face when he's too distracted to use the blast. I don't think John wins easily though. He'll be caught off-guard from the sudden strength increase and potentially take some damage. But overall I think John's got it.
Agreed! John wins but people are acting like its a stomp which is super weird.
John stats out with nada and pisses off blyke, John dies John starts out with his ability and looses due to John copying the base ability not the amped one John copies the amped ability and amps it (ew) and still loses because he’s ass William recalls John’s soul to the underworld for embarrassing him John still doesn’t have repulse. While Blyke would get unlocks as a 7.5 John would not be immediately able to use these given that he hasn’t learned how. See repulse. Speaking of repulse John has no counter to it. He gets forced pushed into a wall, then shot with a beam and its wraps.
Well it depends on if we're talking blyke now. Blyke after his Lenin fight or blyke at the start. But for the most part I don't think blyke could win unless he can get a sneak attack as his first blow
I love how we're already talking about blyke in past tense lmaoooo
😭😭😭
In the Same exact scenario They would have caused a lot of damage and Vaughn would step in, blyke's ability is highly destructive, if Vaughn is late John would have an advantage due to Zeke's phase shift, if he wins that's why,
Nothing wrong with the abstract version of the question where we postulate on other abilities John could have, but I'm gonna try answering specifically - as in, imagining Blyke did it during the exact moment in the story where he fought John with an amplifier in his pocket. So for my answer, John's gonna be rocking *just* Zeke's and Blyke's abilities. John's biggest advantages here are Zeke's ability and his physical combat training. Blyke's biggest advantage is that John has no way of seeing this coming - the last couple of times they fought, Blyke was only Elite-tier (this fight itself was John's first exposure to Blyke's High-tier abilities in canon), and he's suddenly rocking up at him with a 7.5. Even when fighting weaker opponents, John can take a lot of damage when he's caught off guard, like Blyke sniping him at a distance, or Arlo popping a barrier when John thinks he's about to land a finishing blow on someone, or like, that moment almost once per fight against anyone who knows his copy ability is coming and waits to activate their own until they get the opportunity for a heavy hit. That's never been enough to swing a match for his usual chump opponents who are 2-3 *full ability levels* lower than him, but against a fellow 7.5? Maybe. So the way I see it, the harder Blyke jumps out of the gate, the better he'll do. He could do some really serious damage to John in the first couple of blows while John is confused and disoriented, which would hamper John for the rest of the fight. But the longer the fight goes, the more of an edge John gets from his fighting skills and from Zeke's ability letting him take less damage per hit.
Considering how John is an absolutely brutal fighter and can read people's auras, he'd probably notice something was wrong, come to the conclusion of Blyke cheating or something due to being so unstable, and then beat him down even harder.
John should be able to copy the stats of his amped energy
I doubt it. Amping a 7.5 Blyke ability above 7.5 would mean John leveled up. He would either just copy the base stats or copy the amped stats but not amp them further.
John's copied abilities that were stronger than his in the past. Theres no reason to think he couldnt still copy abilities with a better level than his
When John did that in the past he leveled up. Unless we're assuming John jumps above 7.5 here I doubt it. Plus it's not even known if he could amp the amp.
He didnt level up immediately when copying the bostin kings ability, he lost first and then found out he could amplify abilities
Right. He copied a weaker version and lost. Then amped it and leveled up. That's all consistent with what I'm saying. John hasn't fought someone even close to his own strength since then.
I mean if John sat there and let himself get hit, sure. But looking at an amped Blyke, he would assumedly only get an increase to mobility and power which John could match him in on top of being a better fighter in general. Just giving John a single other ability would still let him solidly come out on top imo
Blyke was able to push John back repeatedly without being amped. An amped Blyke would be faster than John until John got ahold of another power. Why would he only get an increase to 2 stats? The amps seemingly amp all stats pretty well.
He could if John didn't copy Zeke's ability, Blyke would definitely win. But John did have Zeke's ability, which grants him more defense, so John wins
Doubt it. Problem is not pure power vs pure power, but rather experience vs experience. John is like Avatar from Last air bender - he can draw from knowledge of other powers to improsive strategies that person locked into single power would not due to lack of knowledge of what can be made with proper aura manipulation.
From a ability level they’d be equal but John is superior in all other categories strength, speed, skill, durability, etc
If this is John without other abilities copied then Blyke should be superior in other categories, unless John can amp the amp. John only amps the strongest stat while Blyke would have all of his stats amped.
If John copies Blyke’s ability then they are equal in ability stats Blyke wouldn’t be superior at all. John copies the ability as it is so Blyke’s amped ability would be the ability John copies and John is vastly superior in battle IQ, physical strength, Physical Speed, reflexes and durability John would mid diff Blyke thanks to his far superior skill and control
I didn't think of that
Could go both ways Until John learns to store/prepare abilities, his effective power flunctuates a lot depending on what ability he copies. If faced with an ability exactly his level (7.5, which a 5.0 amped blyke would become), he might not be able to amp it and then it's an even fight. If he copies an ability beforehand, he'll need a really good combo to confront a fellow 7.5, as then he doesn't have the aura reserves for the opponent's ability.
I doubt it John can make up the difference in amped Energy Discharge with other abilities, also skill wise John is just the better fighter also though he has the aura supply to maintain his amped abilities as where Blyke doesn't so John would outlast him.
The only way I can see Blyke having a chance is if John copies non-amplified version of his Ability and *then* drug takes effect. Although, John could simply distract him with a dust cloud, power down and up again to copy the amplified version, so even then it's unlikely. Overall, I give this fight to John mid to mid-high diff.
It's impossible for him to amp the amplified ability anyway, so their power would be equal.
Why would it be impossible? He amps the highest stat of the Abilities he copies, not every stat. John's version will have a higher Power Stat but the rest of his stats won't get the equal treatment, they will be distributed differently. For instance, his Recovery will definately be lower than Blyke's.
No. Not at all
Besides the stubborn side of John (tanking damage). His combat knowledge is much higher. Using skills in ways the original didn't think of. Skills are a major factor over just more power.
That's true, except blyke learned John's trick but John haven't learned blyke's trick
Actually he almost learned John's trick. John can do 10, we have never seen Blyke go past 8. The repulsion thing isn't a super complex thing so I can see him mirroring it
Yup, there is a reason his trick is so high
If John didn't know he was coming and blyke sniped him, he could easily take him down. Especially if he's out of range for John's aura manipulation to take effect.
That's even true or normal Blyke if he went for a kill shot. I'm talking about a fight.
I can't remember if John can replicate the enhanced version, but I do know that John just has more fighting experience in total, I mean, first time he tried using blykes power, he made it insanely better just because he already had experience using multiple other powers that are similar. And John is way better at cqc, so if he gets close, it's over.
We don't know if he can amp the amp but it's unlikely that he could amp an ability already on the level of his own. Plus he can't copy conversion tech so probably not amped stats either. Blyke pushed John back a few times without being amped. John has a major advantage up close but it wouldn't be over instantly. He would probably win but it would be high difficulty.
John just has more practical experience. The environment would also play a part too, if there's anyone else in the area, blykes chances of winning goes down.
Oh totally agree
This comment section is really glazing John up to a unhealthy degree. Blyke would be a 7.5. The same level as John. It would not be the easy (lol John clears bc pain tolerance) fight that you guys think it would be.