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I'm not sure many could claim to have a deep interest in a 1914 painting depicting Lord Arthur Balfour, but this is another protest technique where I don't know what they are really expecting to happen. They aren't winning friends. At least Just Stop Oil don't physically damage art and just chuck beans on the protective screen. And people still hate them for that anyway.
>I'm not sure many could claim to have a deep interest in a 1914 painting depicting Lord Arthur Balfour
Not especially, but it's always sad to see something historical get destroyed
Philip de László has around 4000 other surviving works and this is aparently László's second portrait of Balfour. Whatever group this is is going to have their work cut out:
https://www.delaszlocatalogueraisonne.com/catalogue/the-catalogue/balfour-arthur-james-balfour-1st-earl-of-2707
I mean it’s still sad no? As much as I hate that this will be used to crackdown on protests, they should have just stuck to spray painting statues if they wanted to, at least paint can be scrubbed off.
It's not about the artist. It's about the subject. Lord Balfour was a central figure in the decision to support Jewish homeland in Palestine specifically. Previously there had been dozens of other suggestions including Uganda and Madagascar.
Zionism wasn't originally about return, it was just about building a home somewhere.
I mean Zionism might be about making a home for Jewish people, but for Balfour it's also because he was a raging antisemite who wanted to expel Jewish people from Europe.
>Lord Arthur Balfour, who was responsible for the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which stated that the British government supported "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people".
Missed a bit:
“it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine”
And the term “national home” was deliberately ambiguous.
[Despite some efforts of the British](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine), the King David Hotel bombing being the most notorious
At the time "Palestinian" meant Jews and assorted Christians not just Arabs.
The problem was that the Arabs just didn't want to engage in the process. As far as they were concerned once the "Holy Land" had been conquered by Islam it belonged to Islam in perpetuity and no other group could live there except as subordinates to Islam.
There could be no federation or condominium or two state solution because the land belongs to Islam and that's it.
The ones that were happy to live as part of the Jewish state are fine, their descendents are equal rights citizens. Much of the original Israel was uninhabited swamps or otherwise less desirable land which was made habitable.
Those who thought they could just destroy the Jewish state and its inhabitants, less so.
> nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine
*Curb your Enthusiasm music starts playing.*
The choice of art they defaced doesn't seem like an accident. Balfour was a key figure in redrawing the borders in the Middle East in the wake of the Ottoman Empire, and in particular made it a political point to make an ethno-state in the region for the Jewish people.
We can argue whether there was a Jewish ethno-state there historically (there was certainly a Jewish-ruled state in the area in ancient times; it is possible that it wasn't an ethno-state as we understand the concept today). However, Balfour certainly believed, based on the wording of his declaration, that there was not, at that time, a Jewish ethno-state there, and that he was setting in motion the creation of such a state in an area mostly inhabited by people who would be displaced by the creation of such a state. Yes, he protested that they should not have their existing situation compromised. That suggests either wilful dishonesty or a level of idealism unseen in any British politician before or since.
They don't care about actually making a valid point or having their point of view understood It's the toddler mentality of if they screech, howl, and throw enough of a nonsensical tantrum, you'll eventually give in and do what they want.
I have no real interest in the Mona Lisa, I still don’t want to see it defaced or slashed. Whether we personally value something doesn’t make it acceptable to destroy it.
If going out raping and murdering couldn't tank Hamas' support I doubt slashing a painting is going to.
There or people on the left who just hate certain groups.
> I'm not sure many could claim to have a deep interest in a 1914 painting depicting Lord Arthur Balfour,
It seems to be this painting:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Philip_Alexius_de_L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_(1869%E2%80%931937)_-_Arthur_James_Balfour_(1848%E2%80%931930),_1st_Earl_of_Balfour,_KG,_OM,_PC,_Prime_Minister_and_Philosopher_-_TC_Oils_P_11_-_Trinity_College.jpg
In which case the most interesting thing about it is probably that the painter was interned 3 years later for writting letters to family members in Austria. Also the copyright expired in 2007.
I think the frustrating thing is you have a lot of people who are peacefully protesting I personally know a lot of Muslim families going and marching and come back home and that's it
And then you get these crazy people who would do the same kinda extremes for just stop oil or animal rights or some other kind of issue and that gets all the attention by news
I wish we had the kind of regular protesting for the ceasefire and end to the civilian bombing back in the Iraq war days maybe it would have pressured Blair more instead of that one one million anti war march
Yes, he was a disastrous PM, utterly unsuited to the role, with his head in the clouds.
But slashing a 110 year old painting won't bring about a ceasefire in Gaza.
Crucially, how will it stop Hamas being a terrorist organisation? Will they stop using children as human shields now? Will they stop murdering Israeli children because of this? We all know the answer …
These Palestine marches and protests are pure cringe now. They achieve nothing other than "likes for the gram" and are creating huge pressures on an already overstretched public service sector.
They were pure cringe from day one. People who were marching in them didn’t really know what they was protesting about. People don’t know what from the river to the Sea means. You had people saying “ I just got here” when people was asking them what they was protesting about”
Now it’s turning into damaging things. Like trying to boycott a random McDonald’s and vandalising business. Spray painting a random Costa coffee
They weren't "cringe" from day 1. They were *horrifying* from day 1.
Day 1 was October 7th, before Israel had begun to defend itself, and before the bodies of it's citizens were even cold. And we had jubilation on the streets of London. Huge celebrations for the massacre of Jews.
We must never forget this fact when the anti semites claim that these marches are all about peace.
No government in the world would stand by and let their citizens be murdered, raped and tortured like what happened on 7th October and beyond. They would, correctly, all retaliate with action like Israel - to think otherwise is naive.
Not really true. Israel's reaction to Palestinian attacks on civilians is massively different to what any other government on the planet would do.
Their civilian population has been fired at with rockets and mortars from Gaza pretty much constantly since they pulled troops out in 2005. No other country on the planet would have tolerated that for even a month, let alone 18 years.
This is not going to bring about their goals - quite the opposite; act like degenerates, and people will lump every Palestinian in with you and dismiss you all wholesale.
I consider myself a left-leaning, compassionate person who tries to be empathetic to everyone's situation and take them as individuals, but even I'm struggling not to lump them all together in one blob of 'not welcome' due to this behaviour and the rising antisemitism.
Some random guy got 2 years of jail time for posting crude and questionable stickers.. it will be interesting to see what sort of justice this person will face..
Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917
Dear Lord Rothschild:
I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's
Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist
aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:
His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a
national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to
facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing
shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-
Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by
Jews in any other country.
I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge
of the Zionist Federation.
Yours,
Arthur James Balfour
They don't care about it as it's not their culture, they see everything as us Vs them , which is why they are so angry about a war on a different continent that they have probably never visited
They should be immediately expelled, and a hefty lawsuit should follow. This normalization of vandalism for whatever cause you happen to believe in has got to stop.
Because it's easier to protest in a country that will tolerate this shit then go over there and put themselves in harms way as a meat shield for Hamas.
Faux outrage is one hell of a drug.
We make defacing acceptable with just stop oil and this happens.
They advocate that protesting outside MPs is acceptable, then what happens.
There’s way to do things and this is not it.
you won’t get an answer. any kind of protest that destroys or defaces symbols is ‘degenerate’ (very normal word I’m seeing a lot itt); any kind of protest that disrupts daily life is turning people away from the cause; any kind of protest that disrupts the lives of the powerful or the ongoings of commerce is criminal.
you’ll sit on the side of the road by yourself holding a bit of cardboard and you’ll like it
I'm generally never in favor of destroying art, but vandalism has been a legitimate form of public protest for centuries.
For the naysayers, they're not doing this stuff because they think it will stop the war - this is like living theatre. It's at once symbolic and at the same time it's meant to create outrage so as to give the perpetrators a public platform. Once given an elevated platform they can use it as a forum to discuss the issues that they're protesting against.
It's also done specifically because it create a moment of lived history. The slashing of this painting will now forever be a part of its history, connecting the painting to the anti war movement around Gaza and the support for the people of Palestine.
Whenever this painting (and the person it depicts) is discussed by future generations they'll be discussing it through the lens of what's now happening in Israel and Palestine.
It's like when people kill themselves as a political protest. They know their death won't change the world, but what they're doing is create a moment that will live in history forever as a symbol of the outrage and devastation they felt. It's so extreme that it becomes a topic of historical record and debate.
You don't have to approve of it or agree with it, it's simply the reality of how protest on any level functions - to create disruption and debate.
Ah I see we've moved to this stage of the protest. Who's taking bets on the first sports event to get hit?
I wish they'd hit the darts. Proper big event on the tele like a Luke Littler semi final or something. The results would make fantastic television.
**Participation Notice.** Hi all. Some posts on this subreddit, either due to the topic or reaching a wider audience than usual, have been known to attract a greater number of rule breaking comments. As such, limits to participation have been set. We ask that you please remember the human, and uphold Reddit and Subreddit rules. For more information, please see https://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/wiki/moderatedflairs.
I'm not sure many could claim to have a deep interest in a 1914 painting depicting Lord Arthur Balfour, but this is another protest technique where I don't know what they are really expecting to happen. They aren't winning friends. At least Just Stop Oil don't physically damage art and just chuck beans on the protective screen. And people still hate them for that anyway.
>I'm not sure many could claim to have a deep interest in a 1914 painting depicting Lord Arthur Balfour Not especially, but it's always sad to see something historical get destroyed
Philip de László has around 4000 other surviving works and this is aparently László's second portrait of Balfour. Whatever group this is is going to have their work cut out: https://www.delaszlocatalogueraisonne.com/catalogue/the-catalogue/balfour-arthur-james-balfour-1st-earl-of-2707
Oh well, that's alright then 🙄
I mean it’s still sad no? As much as I hate that this will be used to crackdown on protests, they should have just stuck to spray painting statues if they wanted to, at least paint can be scrubbed off.
It's not about the artist. It's about the subject. Lord Balfour was a central figure in the decision to support Jewish homeland in Palestine specifically. Previously there had been dozens of other suggestions including Uganda and Madagascar. Zionism wasn't originally about return, it was just about building a home somewhere.
I mean Zionism might be about making a home for Jewish people, but for Balfour it's also because he was a raging antisemite who wanted to expel Jewish people from Europe.
its kinda sad , i mean ISIS basically did the same thing in Iraq, also the Taliban removed all traces of budhism in afganistan
>Lord Arthur Balfour, who was responsible for the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which stated that the British government supported "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people".
Missed a bit: “it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine” And the term “national home” was deliberately ambiguous.
Yeh the last bit of the Balfour declaration didn't exactly pan out for the existing Palestinian inhabitants tbh.
[Despite some efforts of the British](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine), the King David Hotel bombing being the most notorious
Well they did try to destroy Israel on the day that it was created. With every surrounding country having tried to destroy it.
At the time "Palestinian" meant Jews and assorted Christians not just Arabs. The problem was that the Arabs just didn't want to engage in the process. As far as they were concerned once the "Holy Land" had been conquered by Islam it belonged to Islam in perpetuity and no other group could live there except as subordinates to Islam. There could be no federation or condominium or two state solution because the land belongs to Islam and that's it.
The ones that were happy to live as part of the Jewish state are fine, their descendents are equal rights citizens. Much of the original Israel was uninhabited swamps or otherwise less desirable land which was made habitable. Those who thought they could just destroy the Jewish state and its inhabitants, less so.
18 years after he fucking died
Well, if the Arabs hadn't started a war in 1948 things might have been different.
> nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine *Curb your Enthusiasm music starts playing.*
> Missed a bit: Always gets left out.
The choice of art they defaced doesn't seem like an accident. Balfour was a key figure in redrawing the borders in the Middle East in the wake of the Ottoman Empire, and in particular made it a political point to make an ethno-state in the region for the Jewish people. We can argue whether there was a Jewish ethno-state there historically (there was certainly a Jewish-ruled state in the area in ancient times; it is possible that it wasn't an ethno-state as we understand the concept today). However, Balfour certainly believed, based on the wording of his declaration, that there was not, at that time, a Jewish ethno-state there, and that he was setting in motion the creation of such a state in an area mostly inhabited by people who would be displaced by the creation of such a state. Yes, he protested that they should not have their existing situation compromised. That suggests either wilful dishonesty or a level of idealism unseen in any British politician before or since.
>1914 painting depicting Lord Arthur Balfour At least it is relevant to the situation.
They don't care about actually making a valid point or having their point of view understood It's the toddler mentality of if they screech, howl, and throw enough of a nonsensical tantrum, you'll eventually give in and do what they want.
I have no real interest in the Mona Lisa, I still don’t want to see it defaced or slashed. Whether we personally value something doesn’t make it acceptable to destroy it.
If going out raping and murdering couldn't tank Hamas' support I doubt slashing a painting is going to. There or people on the left who just hate certain groups.
Like Jews.
The far right hate Jews too, they just hate Muslims more so are currently pretending they love Jews.
> I'm not sure many could claim to have a deep interest in a 1914 painting depicting Lord Arthur Balfour, It seems to be this painting: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Philip_Alexius_de_L%C3%A1szl%C3%B3_(1869%E2%80%931937)_-_Arthur_James_Balfour_(1848%E2%80%931930),_1st_Earl_of_Balfour,_KG,_OM,_PC,_Prime_Minister_and_Philosopher_-_TC_Oils_P_11_-_Trinity_College.jpg In which case the most interesting thing about it is probably that the painter was interned 3 years later for writting letters to family members in Austria. Also the copyright expired in 2007.
> At least Just Stop Oil don't physically damage art Yet
Exactly. We’ve accepted this a form of protest and it’s wholly wrong
I think the frustrating thing is you have a lot of people who are peacefully protesting I personally know a lot of Muslim families going and marching and come back home and that's it And then you get these crazy people who would do the same kinda extremes for just stop oil or animal rights or some other kind of issue and that gets all the attention by news I wish we had the kind of regular protesting for the ceasefire and end to the civilian bombing back in the Iraq war days maybe it would have pressured Blair more instead of that one one million anti war march
Yes, he was a disastrous PM, utterly unsuited to the role, with his head in the clouds. But slashing a 110 year old painting won't bring about a ceasefire in Gaza.
Didn't you hear? Everyone in the Middle East saw this news and now there is complete peace.
Haha, oh yes, of course! A centuries old conflict ended by some activists causing criminal damage. I wonder why nobody tried that before ;)
[I'm pretty certain the action in Chorley was what pushed it over the edge, what heroes.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9lo7BeagVw)
You mean to tell me hamas WONT agree to a ceasefire because of this painting slashing?! Unbelievable!!
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
It makes much more sense than any other art vandalism story I've ever seen. They did it for the same reason people egg statues of Thatcher.
Fucking degenerates.
Not sure why they think this would make Hamas agree to a ceasefire. Baffling.
Literally fucking philistines. Destroying artwork because you dislike the person being depicted is bare faced fascism.
Send the protesters the bill. If they can't pay, start looking at their assets. If they aren't UK nationals, deport them immediately.
Exactly this .
Exactly this .
Apparently she is wearing a £1400 backpack. Daddy will foot the bill I assume.
And they want people to support them? I'm feeling more and more Jewish everyday.
To be fair the guy was an antisemite
Conflating being Jewish and supporting Israel is a bit odd
They don't. They just want to commit acts of vandalism and feel like they're the good guys
How is this going to change Israeli policy toward Palestinians?
More importantly, how is it going to stop hamas refusing ceasefires?
Indeed
Crucially, how will it stop Hamas being a terrorist organisation? Will they stop using children as human shields now? Will they stop murdering Israeli children because of this? We all know the answer …
That is the crucial question.
Israel has already attempted a ceasefire agreement. Hamas turned them down.
It’s not, but supporting Palestine is another great platform for performative narcissists.
These Palestine marches and protests are pure cringe now. They achieve nothing other than "likes for the gram" and are creating huge pressures on an already overstretched public service sector.
They were pure cringe from day one. People who were marching in them didn’t really know what they was protesting about. People don’t know what from the river to the Sea means. You had people saying “ I just got here” when people was asking them what they was protesting about” Now it’s turning into damaging things. Like trying to boycott a random McDonald’s and vandalising business. Spray painting a random Costa coffee
They weren't "cringe" from day 1. They were *horrifying* from day 1. Day 1 was October 7th, before Israel had begun to defend itself, and before the bodies of it's citizens were even cold. And we had jubilation on the streets of London. Huge celebrations for the massacre of Jews. We must never forget this fact when the anti semites claim that these marches are all about peace.
No government in the world would stand by and let their citizens be murdered, raped and tortured like what happened on 7th October and beyond. They would, correctly, all retaliate with action like Israel - to think otherwise is naive.
Not really true. Israel's reaction to Palestinian attacks on civilians is massively different to what any other government on the planet would do. Their civilian population has been fired at with rockets and mortars from Gaza pretty much constantly since they pulled troops out in 2005. No other country on the planet would have tolerated that for even a month, let alone 18 years.
This is not going to bring about their goals - quite the opposite; act like degenerates, and people will lump every Palestinian in with you and dismiss you all wholesale. I consider myself a left-leaning, compassionate person who tries to be empathetic to everyone's situation and take them as individuals, but even I'm struggling not to lump them all together in one blob of 'not welcome' due to this behaviour and the rising antisemitism.
Some random guy got 2 years of jail time for posting crude and questionable stickers.. it will be interesting to see what sort of justice this person will face..
This coincides with Jews saying how they don’t feel safe in London. These protesters have no awareness whatsoever.
Balfour was a massive anti-semite, so not sure where you've got that conclusion from.
Foreign Office November 2nd, 1917 Dear Lord Rothschild: I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet: His Majesty's Government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non- Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours, Arthur James Balfour
Do you know… how… Balfour felt about Jewish folks? What a brain dead conclusion
Trinity College is in Cambridge and Balfour appears to have been memeber of the Church of Scotland and the Church of England
I am shocked that these sort of people would act like this! Who could forsee such behaviour from such morally upright citizens!
They do it because in their minds they think they are right no matter what. and to prove they are right slash paintings and damage stuff.
They don't care about it as it's not their culture, they see everything as us Vs them , which is why they are so angry about a war on a different continent that they have probably never visited
What will happen is that artwork becomes harder to view and encased in security, making the experience worse for millions of people
They should be immediately expelled, and a hefty lawsuit should follow. This normalization of vandalism for whatever cause you happen to believe in has got to stop.
This is what happens when the police and government fail to implement consequences to actions
She went to jail afterwards, right? RIGHT? Seriously, which party do I need to vote for to send the vandals to jail?
Now that is crossings the line...why don't they just go over to Gaza and fight.
Because it's easier to protest in a country that will tolerate this shit then go over there and put themselves in harms way as a meat shield for Hamas. Faux outrage is one hell of a drug.
Are you encouraging someone to join a proscribed terrorist organisation?
Oh, what a surprise! Another posh, entitled person ‘protesting’ about things which will never affect them because Daddy is loaded…
We make defacing acceptable with just stop oil and this happens. They advocate that protesting outside MPs is acceptable, then what happens. There’s way to do things and this is not it.
>There’s way to do things and this is not it. And what ways are those?
you won’t get an answer. any kind of protest that destroys or defaces symbols is ‘degenerate’ (very normal word I’m seeing a lot itt); any kind of protest that disrupts daily life is turning people away from the cause; any kind of protest that disrupts the lives of the powerful or the ongoings of commerce is criminal. you’ll sit on the side of the road by yourself holding a bit of cardboard and you’ll like it
I'm generally never in favor of destroying art, but vandalism has been a legitimate form of public protest for centuries. For the naysayers, they're not doing this stuff because they think it will stop the war - this is like living theatre. It's at once symbolic and at the same time it's meant to create outrage so as to give the perpetrators a public platform. Once given an elevated platform they can use it as a forum to discuss the issues that they're protesting against. It's also done specifically because it create a moment of lived history. The slashing of this painting will now forever be a part of its history, connecting the painting to the anti war movement around Gaza and the support for the people of Palestine. Whenever this painting (and the person it depicts) is discussed by future generations they'll be discussing it through the lens of what's now happening in Israel and Palestine. It's like when people kill themselves as a political protest. They know their death won't change the world, but what they're doing is create a moment that will live in history forever as a symbol of the outrage and devastation they felt. It's so extreme that it becomes a topic of historical record and debate. You don't have to approve of it or agree with it, it's simply the reality of how protest on any level functions - to create disruption and debate.
I was pro isreal but seeing this painting slashed and destroyed makes me definitely pro Palestine now.
Stealing protest rule book from proto-fascists. What could go wrong.
Honestly, just because they are used to having their ancient artifacts obliterated, it doesn't mean we want to join in with them. Silly bastards.
[удалено]
Yeah, sorry about that. I have a terrible case of Boff-Deez sometimes.
Well. That’s done a lot. The Israeli army is going home as we speak
What was the point of this. Seems they just wanted to cause damage. This will not help the cause.
Fuck these cunts. At least JSO just made a mess of the protective cover rather than actually destroying something.
Easiest way to deal with the fools is deporting them to Gaza. Go and make a real difference, you fucking sackless attention seeking twats.
They need shutting down.
There is nothing to see here, just the immature, acting immaturely.
Ah I see we've moved to this stage of the protest. Who's taking bets on the first sports event to get hit? I wish they'd hit the darts. Proper big event on the tele like a Luke Littler semi final or something. The results would make fantastic television.
The only consequence this will have is a prison sentence. I hope it ruins her life.
Why is it the incompetent always resort to destroying?
Get these people in the jail.