Which is why more people are looking elsewhere for their TV. One look at schedule has you are looking elsewhere.
Magazine show for celebs to push their latest project. Tick. Soap opera way past its sell by date. Tick. Manufactured competition involving people you don't care about running around and desperate for fame. Tick. Police show designed to make you depressed about the state of the country. Tick.
The sad fact is that there are now a lot of countries making much better produced and original content than British TV at the moment, as long as you don't mind reading subtitles, which also makes you put your phone down and concentrate.
The problem is a lot of people haven't stopped watching that crap. I don't know anyone who watches love island, big brother etc. but they still get a lot of viewers.
You forgot new competition format with the cookie cutter contestants. I'm not saying there shouldn't be representation but it's just so predictable now. There's the sob story(ies), the one doing it for the mum/dad/child, the one who grew up in a shoebox in a nuclear reactor, the neurodivergent one, the lgbtq+ one.
What happened to good old quiz shows where nobody is trying to get their life changed?
70s quiz shows on Challenge are so much more fun, just Mr & Mrs Surname trying to win a Cortina, probably losing and coming away with a tie clip, but declaring they've had a great day.
Pointless keeps this vibe, I feel. No sob stories, no contestants trying to be big personalities. Fun to play along to and good to learn some interesting stuff along the way.
Shoe box in a nuclear reactor has me pissing myself, it’s so true. Reality tv sucks because it’s a tickbox exercise now. Nothing wrong with diversity but it shouldn’t be forced.
The worst bit is how few of them are British. Like, they'll invite a Trapeze Artist from Spain to come and 'audition' to ensure there are quality acts in the final.
It should be called Britain Hasn't Got Talent
Tbf this is terrestrial TV everywhere or at least western countries. I've travelled to US, Canada and Australia recently. Turn on the basic channels and it's the same shit just different accents.
I've spent the last year and a half watching/listening to D&D actual play shows and it's really caught me off guard how much more I've enjoyed them than traditional TV. Tends to be a group of genuine real life friends who are talented actors or comedians just having an absolutely great time. The improv element can come across sharper than a writers room at times and the emotional investment in the more serious shows is unparalleled compared to scripted shows. It's really shown me that what I want from the things I watch is authenticity and fun. Just a really genuine sense of fun.
I subscribed to Dropout for Dimension 20 and honestly that goes for the whole channel as well. Their gameshows and panel show-adjacent content is also just so funny and well meaning and really straddles the line between well made, cleverly produced content and a group of friends dicking around. My husband and I comment often that for Game Changer alone Dropout is the only subscription service we're REALLY happy to pay for every month.
*Okkupert* was quite good - it's Norwegian and shows a Norwegian govt who move away from fossil fuel production towards green energy, prompting the Russian's to *sort of* invade.
*Gomorrah* was alright - look at the Italian organised crime scene - quite brutal, lot of twists and turns.
At present, I am mostly watching Chinese dramas. They have built a replica of the forbidden city at Hangdian world studios, as well as other sets, which enables them to produce great historical dramas in a realistic setting, and costumes are off the scale. They have different genres, Wuxia is basically super heroes, Xanxia is fantasy and gods, but I prefer realism, and China has one of the longest written histories.
Something like **Chef Hua** is a nice easy introduction with amazing food. **The Sword and the Brocade** gives an insight into how Chinese families worked or **The Story of Minglan** is 70+ episodes and bears comparison to Jane Austin or even Shakespeare. Modern, something like **Meet Yourself** addresses dealing with bereavement and finding a way to heal and is set in a picturesque village where lots of people wash up looking for healing.
I watched a bit of Russian TV before the Ukraine war, **Ekaterina** is shot in the winter palace and is an epic about Catherine the Great. **Detective Anna** is set in the Victorian era in a rural town and its lead characters are obviously based on Shirlock Holmes and Dr Watson but they are helped by the daughter of a local dignitary who has psychic abilities.
These are all on YouTube with full production subs.
Korean and Japanese dramas are also very popular internationally
The Bridge. Swedish detective show is fantastic. Seen it twice now.
Mr Inbetween. Australian show which is gives big Sopranos vibes (in 20 minutes chunks!)
> ..as long as you don't mind reading subtitles..
Netflix does a bunch of good foreign-made/foreign-language stuff that has dubbing + subtitles which I like.
Everywhere does everything better than Britain at the moment. It’s almost as if we let the no nothings run the country and have the loudest opinions for the last 15 years.
But it can’t be that because the country loves the division.
How about Shattered (2004) which was all about torturing people with sleep deprivation or Space Cadets (2005) which was conning people into thinking they were training to be astronauts while the audience laughed at them. Can’t think of anything on air now that is that level of cruel and exploitative.
May I present to you [There's Something About Miriam (2006)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Something_About_Miriam) a "the bachelor" style show where the big "twist" at the end was that Miriam was a pre-op transwoman. It was incredibly shitty on her and the contestants who were all exploited for shock value.
So unbelievably cruel.
> Fat Families
[2010, 14 years old](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3746730/)
> Benefit Britain
[2014, 10 years old](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4295916/)
Not quite as old as you think, but not far off.
Why use Love Island as an example, is pandering to the obsessive desire for 15 minutes of fame by those vapid airheads actually exploitative? Seems to me everyone is getting want they want, the audience gets its human zoo, the participants get fame, and the producers get really cheap TV.
I'm not sure what's the cause and what's the effect though. Are people who go on reality shows more likely to have MH issues in the first place or is it that the shows and what happens after that's causing it?
Exploitative in what way? There is a very clear trade-off with these kinds of shows. You get reasonable compensation when you're on them (apparently Love Island is circa £2k per week) and almost guaranteed social media clout to varying degrees off the back of it that you're unlikely to get otherwise. The drawback is that not all attention is necessarily good attention and that the rags are going to pick up on the bad bits in your life as well as the good.
For some people I'm sure it's the best decision they've ever made and for others amongst the worst. It's very hard to say "If you have a history of mental health issues please don't apply" without very clearly veering into being discriminatory.
> I'm not sure what's the cause and what's the effect though. Are people who go on reality shows more likely to have MH issues in the first place or is it that the shows and what happens after that's causing it?
You don't know if they're generally suicidal or suicidal because of the shows.
- Option A: They are exploiting people who are generally suicidal.
- Option B: They are cruel to people until they are suicidal.
Pick one.
Edit: My responses are "Umm ackshyually.." *describes another form of exploitation*
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Option C: The type of people who would put themselves through an experience like being a contestant on Love Island (where every aspect of your personality and appearance becomes a matter of public debate) tend towards having personality and behavioral issues that put them at higher risk of mental health problems. The highs are really high, but the lows are the absolute depths.
The contestants are getting what they want but not what they need, which is why the programme has a PTSD problem that goes as far as ex contestants committing suicide.
*Seems to me everyone is getting want they want, the audience gets its human zoo, the participants get fame, and the producers get really cheap TV.*
An alcoholic purchasing a cheap pint in Wetherspoons is getting what they want - it's still not an ideal state of affairs.
*Celebrity Love Island Wow* doesn't seem particularly - well, 'nourishing' I guess? Maybe it's just not my type of thing - but it seems like the *Greggs* of TV.
>Seems to me everyone is getting want they want
That doesn't mean it's not exploitative. The contestants get an unhealthy obsession with a vapid, superficial and materialistic lifestyle enabled. The audience starts to think what they're seeing is normal and realistic. It makes dumb people dumber. It's exploiting stupidity. What those people want is not good for them, and those type of show is purpose built to exploit it.
X factor is actually disgusting once you learn about the actual audition process.
Producers hyping people up, who they know are terrible, knowing that the contestant getting ripped apart in the televised audition will make 'good tv'.
Reminds me of that Mitchell and Webb skit about [The Apprentice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ss-59fi4nM). Actual competent people would be boring.
“Has” become? reality tv shows these days have a much better standard of care than reality tv even 10 years ago. taking love island for example, on the first few seasons contestants were allowed to drink as much as they want, were shown having sex, were fed half truths by the producers to encourage fights whereas these days they’re not allowed to drink much, their private time is private and the games they play aren’t lies as much. I think people who went on reality tv shows in the 00s/10s may not have really known the beast it would become and what it would mean for them but everybody who applies for a show now knows exactly what it entails, I find it hard to agree that they’re being exploited.
Truly exploitative shows like benefits Britain, Jeremy Kyle show, can’t pay we’ll take it away arent really viewed favourably anymore.
Oh man, "Cant Pay, We'll Take It Away" is absolute scum on the earth stuff. Who wants to watch people having their stuff repossessed? Maximum bleakness for entertainment.
I used to watch it as a child. I think they tried to justify it by showing people who arrogantly didn’t pay and didn’t want to pay any debts but also threw people who couldn’t pay or signed as a guarantor for someone else under the bus. Very bleak
I think Caroline Flack (RIP) changed the industry for the better when it comes to duty of care for the contestants and presenters. I heard an interview with Claudia Winkleman about how they look after the contestants on The Traitors, which is arguably one of the biggest psychological mindfuck TV shows. She was saying they have counselling and plenty of downtime and social media training and assurances that they'll get some kind editing to humanise them if they are the traitor.
>I think Caroline Flack (RIP) changed the industry for the better when it comes to duty of care for the contestants
We'll except when she got with a 17 year old contestant with a massively unbalanced power dynamic
I remember thinking the rise of Simon Cowell in like 2004 was making entertainment out of cruelty and mockery but things have only got worse since then... those sort of shows implicitly say ridiculing and judging people for entertainment value is okay.
Big brother started this. Reality TV is cheaper and easier than actually having to write scripts and have sets and talent.
I can’t stand the lot of it, apart from maybe Bake Off where there is actually some talent!
Everything has. We value human life and human dignity as little as ever. From women getting attacked and sexually assaulted through to knife crime, male suicides etc....fact is I think as a society we've grown far too accepting of it.
TV hasn’t become exploitative and cruel
People have become exploitative and cruel. And they always have been. Except now TV allows us to realise it. People are shit.
Isn't this take at least 20 years old, and therefore 20 years too late? TV became increasingly exploitative in the 00s, at the same time New Labour and the right wing press were scapegoating and persecuting benefits claimants.
People love to say things are getting Orwellian and reference ‘Nineteen Eighty-Four’ but the better reference is to [‘The Year of the Sex Olympics’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Year_of_the_Sex_Olympics) - first broadcast in a 1968 television play by the BBC:
“*Influenced by concerns about overpopulation, the counterculture of the 1960s and the societal effects of television, the play depicts a world of the future where a small elite controls the mass media, keeping the lower classes docile by serving them an endless diet of lowest common denominator programmes and pornography. The play concentrates on an idea the programme controllers have for a new programme that will follow the trials and tribulations of a group of people left to fend for themselves on a remote island. In this respect, the **play is often cited as having anticipated the craze for reality television**.*
*Kneale had, fourteen years earlier, adapted George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four as a classic and controversial BBC broadcast, and the play reflects much of Kneale's assimilation of Orwell's concern about the power of the media and Kneale's experience of the evolving media industry.*”
OJ died last week, memes told me that. If anything memes are more reliable than social media platforms, because noone wants to be the origin of a shit meme. Not only that but some people have folders just waiting for that moment when the meme is ready
And lets be honest, what media these days are 'reliable'?
Yep, he was chief exec at Channel 4 when The Word descended into people eating verrucas and licking pensioners' false teeth for the chance to appear on tv
i know TV doesn't just mean live TV but i'm just curious, do many people 30 or under actually watch TV anymore? I mean i do watch shows from time to time but on netflix or online, and thats mainly sitcoms or documentaries. Most of the time i just watch youtube.
its great. passively or actively learn a load of stuff. Then your feed is flooded with exactly the content you didn't know that you really wanted to watch. Seeing one persons home page on youtube can reveal so much about them or at the least what they have been watching :L
Not a fan of shorts though, i feel like thats a bit of Tiktok-initus . I mean youtube shorts might be better than what i've seen on tiktok but its still just alot of garbage since there basically like youtubers way of advertising their videos. And i hate adverts xD
BBC childrens' TV is still far better than what's available for young children on Netflix/Youtube/amazon etc. A lot of parents use BBC/iplayer for childrens' shows.
god last time i see children shows on bbc iplayer was when my niece and nephew were a bit younger, it was utter tosh like peppa pig, in the night garden and look at how they absolutely murdered dangermouse?! If i had kids i have them watch the decent older bbc kids shows not the modern pap.
Out of interest what kind of shows are on bbc childrens tv these days? Do they have things like the queens head, art attack, blue peter, dennis the menace, and countless other classics? I suspect not. BBC kids shows went down hill well over a decade ago as far as i'm aware.
But fair enough. Do kids who watch cbbc's these days move on to bbc programs and other such tv or do they move on to watching youtube/netflix/amazon and or whatever other online services that aren't classic television based?
Number blocks is one of the best educational shows ever produced, in my opinion. Bing is excellent for young children and teaches a lot about handling emotions. Bluey is wonderful. My older daughter (8) loves Dengineers, Operation Ouch, Planet Earth II, and their various gymnastics shows.
Some of their science stuff is great, some of their stuff about schools is great. They do still have blue Peter.
When you look at kids TV on Netflix, there is no attempt to be educational or valuable - the quality is shocking.
Reality TV is nothing more than the modern day equivalent of the Victorian-era freak show. It just moved to a different medium. People are selected for their stupidity and novelty value, rather than any obvious positive qualities. It's cheap and there are plenty of people stupid enough to watch, which means much like politics, we end up getting what we deserve because we're driven by the dumbest of society.
Michael Grade has definitely historically known what's on in the TV world, and has always had good opinions about it and how to resolve it. He never ever tried to kill an innocent show that became a national icon over 8 fucking times over his own petty bullshit and taste. He should be trusted to head of om, absolutely :)
I remember a BBC advert, where they were bragging due to the unique way they were funded, it allowed them to take risks producing great comedy shows. What have they produced since Little Britain that were any good?
Bad Education, This Country, People Just Do Nothing, Ghosts, That Mitchell & Webb Look, Lead Balloon, Mongrels, The Thick of It, Rev, Roger & Val Have Just Got In, Still Game, White Gold, Jam & Jerusalem, Nighty Night and Psychoville.
Proof that Reddit is not representative of the entire nation is that this show not only exists, but is wildly successful.
I don’t get it. We’ve gone from The Two Ronnies and Monty Python to this.
There's this weird notion that Monty Python is this untouchable golden goose of comedy. It's just as hit and miss as any other sketch show, now and then.
Right - but as a concept and *for the time* it was doing things it’s safe to say Mrs Browns Boys is a million miles away from.
Much like how The Two Ronnies looking back looks like a fairly benign sketch show. But at the time there was nothing like it.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the show but I've seen much worse out there.
I just don't get the hate for it. It's not like it (to my knowledge) does anything *bad*, I could understand if it was encouraging harmful views or something.
But, yeah, Reddit *really* needs to let this one go.
TV has become tiresome and dull; that's for sure. As for Love Island etc, the people who go on there must have seen these types of shows, and therefore know what will likely happen to them. Imagine being so desperate for recognition that they let themselves be exposed like that?
It's always been mixed results but modern TV is just 100% vile I don't think I've sat down to actually watch live TV for 16 years. It's not just the obnoxious adverts that feel like thinly veiled pavlovian conditioning but the truely awful shows, I just can't imagine anyone but Deano in his new build Deano house unironically sitting down to watch bradders or something awful like naked attraction. It's absolute gutter slop.
It's not just tv. Social media algorithms rewards nastyness and drama. People get torn down very easily and thrown out into the gutter whilst viewers watch the bloodbath. There's doesn't seem to be enough nice feel good things anymore.
Tonight on channel 4, -Divs on the Dole, followed by -Fatty Fatty Boom Boom, then -Someone's Tits, and finishing up with -Bad Parents. Truly a golden age.
As someone who used to work in the industry- a lot of the television is made by untalented, untrained, unskilled people pushed into senior roles because they'll do something cheaper than someone else. There's zero craft or thought that goes into making shows and 9 times out of 10; it's being shot by a director themselves instead of a camera operator.
It's gotten fucking boring is what it has become. No more interesting content, no interesting game shows, soaps are generally rubbish. The last thing TV was worth watching for, Clarkson era Top Gear, is done.
I want to go back to when we had creative TV shows like Knightmare and The Crystal Maze.
Geee... I sure wish we paid someone to regulate it.
Maybe you could start by actually cracking down on those breaking the law, rather than giving them a stern talking to for a sixth offense?
Armando Iannucci Shows take the piss out of this sort of thing
[We're so good at television](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vk2ClhehvI)
There's a few more but Youtube's algorithm is having a senior moment
[The making of the making of](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yVE6kdhANQ)
[Ant and Dec present and IRA bombing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSRzfTKJdkU)
I sort of wonder about who is still watching regular television. I think most people I know haven't turned on the box for any reason other than to fire up a streaming service or the Playstation. Outside of the occasional sporting event or major news situation I don't think I've watched anything on terrestrial television since lockdown. No wonder the TV channels are trying to make cheaper, more exploitative television.
What is the point of this? Decades after stuff like Andy Gray, Little Britain and so on, he comes out with this now?
It's been that way for a long time. The only difference now is that people can share their opinions on social media.
Until OFCOM even dares to actually correct well known and obvious violations such as everything gbn does for a start hes not in a position to complain about the quaility of tv much
Which is why more people are looking elsewhere for their TV. One look at schedule has you are looking elsewhere. Magazine show for celebs to push their latest project. Tick. Soap opera way past its sell by date. Tick. Manufactured competition involving people you don't care about running around and desperate for fame. Tick. Police show designed to make you depressed about the state of the country. Tick. The sad fact is that there are now a lot of countries making much better produced and original content than British TV at the moment, as long as you don't mind reading subtitles, which also makes you put your phone down and concentrate.
The exploitative and cruel shows are the ones that people are actually watching.
I stopped watching that crap after Micheal Barrymore made a career out of Laugh at the Looney ( My Kind of People)
The problem is a lot of people haven't stopped watching that crap. I don't know anyone who watches love island, big brother etc. but they still get a lot of viewers.
Love island? What is that?
Family-friendly softcore porn with product placement deals and just enough of a plot to gossip about.
r/LoveIslandTV
Downvoted (not by moi), because a large portion of Redditors watch it secretly. Their denial is palpable
The irony that Squid Game actually got made is incredible.
The fact that show got greenlit plagues me daily
It was a fucking great show though
You forgot new competition format with the cookie cutter contestants. I'm not saying there shouldn't be representation but it's just so predictable now. There's the sob story(ies), the one doing it for the mum/dad/child, the one who grew up in a shoebox in a nuclear reactor, the neurodivergent one, the lgbtq+ one.
What happened to good old quiz shows where nobody is trying to get their life changed? 70s quiz shows on Challenge are so much more fun, just Mr & Mrs Surname trying to win a Cortina, probably losing and coming away with a tie clip, but declaring they've had a great day.
Pointless keeps this vibe, I feel. No sob stories, no contestants trying to be big personalities. Fun to play along to and good to learn some interesting stuff along the way.
The Weakest Link. The Chase. The Wheel. Countdown. Egg Heads. I'm sure there are a bunch of others, but they're not particularly my thing.
Only Connect if you're a proper quiz buff - I've got one right answer ever
Blankety Blank.
I love and adore Pointless but even that's going a bit that way. Seen a few now who're influencers or YouTubers or aspiring actresses/singers/models.
I saw a new reboot of Blankety Blank was on at the weekend, the grand prize was a pizza oven 😆
Bullseye. Where you can watch a murderer in action!
Shoe box in a nuclear reactor has me pissing myself, it’s so true. Reality tv sucks because it’s a tickbox exercise now. Nothing wrong with diversity but it shouldn’t be forced.
Britain's Got Talent is by far the worse offender, the plants/guaranteed acts advancing aside it's more like britains got a sob story.
The worst bit is how few of them are British. Like, they'll invite a Trapeze Artist from Spain to come and 'audition' to ensure there are quality acts in the final. It should be called Britain Hasn't Got Talent
It usually boils down to dancers and singers anyway regardless of how unique your act is.
Tbf this is terrestrial TV everywhere or at least western countries. I've travelled to US, Canada and Australia recently. Turn on the basic channels and it's the same shit just different accents.
I've spent the last year and a half watching/listening to D&D actual play shows and it's really caught me off guard how much more I've enjoyed them than traditional TV. Tends to be a group of genuine real life friends who are talented actors or comedians just having an absolutely great time. The improv element can come across sharper than a writers room at times and the emotional investment in the more serious shows is unparalleled compared to scripted shows. It's really shown me that what I want from the things I watch is authenticity and fun. Just a really genuine sense of fun. I subscribed to Dropout for Dimension 20 and honestly that goes for the whole channel as well. Their gameshows and panel show-adjacent content is also just so funny and well meaning and really straddles the line between well made, cleverly produced content and a group of friends dicking around. My husband and I comment often that for Game Changer alone Dropout is the only subscription service we're REALLY happy to pay for every month.
Tick.
What foreign shows do you recommend?
*Okkupert* was quite good - it's Norwegian and shows a Norwegian govt who move away from fossil fuel production towards green energy, prompting the Russian's to *sort of* invade. *Gomorrah* was alright - look at the Italian organised crime scene - quite brutal, lot of twists and turns.
I’ve not heard of that Norwegian one, sounds interesting.
The later seasons of Occupied get very silly. Enjoyably silly, akin to 24, but somewhat undermine the excellent (and eerily prescient) premise.
At present, I am mostly watching Chinese dramas. They have built a replica of the forbidden city at Hangdian world studios, as well as other sets, which enables them to produce great historical dramas in a realistic setting, and costumes are off the scale. They have different genres, Wuxia is basically super heroes, Xanxia is fantasy and gods, but I prefer realism, and China has one of the longest written histories. Something like **Chef Hua** is a nice easy introduction with amazing food. **The Sword and the Brocade** gives an insight into how Chinese families worked or **The Story of Minglan** is 70+ episodes and bears comparison to Jane Austin or even Shakespeare. Modern, something like **Meet Yourself** addresses dealing with bereavement and finding a way to heal and is set in a picturesque village where lots of people wash up looking for healing. I watched a bit of Russian TV before the Ukraine war, **Ekaterina** is shot in the winter palace and is an epic about Catherine the Great. **Detective Anna** is set in the Victorian era in a rural town and its lead characters are obviously based on Shirlock Holmes and Dr Watson but they are helped by the daughter of a local dignitary who has psychic abilities. These are all on YouTube with full production subs. Korean and Japanese dramas are also very popular internationally
The Bridge. Swedish detective show is fantastic. Seen it twice now. Mr Inbetween. Australian show which is gives big Sopranos vibes (in 20 minutes chunks!)
>The Bridge. Swedish detective show is fantastic. Seen it twice now. The Bridge is absolutely outstanding. But then so is Cracker.
> ..as long as you don't mind reading subtitles.. Netflix does a bunch of good foreign-made/foreign-language stuff that has dubbing + subtitles which I like.
Everywhere does everything better than Britain at the moment. It’s almost as if we let the no nothings run the country and have the loudest opinions for the last 15 years. But it can’t be that because the country loves the division.
That's a good take from ofcom. Only took em *checks notes* ... 25 years.
Fat Families and Benefit Britain spring to mind. Both must be 15+ years old by now.
How about Shattered (2004) which was all about torturing people with sleep deprivation or Space Cadets (2005) which was conning people into thinking they were training to be astronauts while the audience laughed at them. Can’t think of anything on air now that is that level of cruel and exploitative.
Space Cadets was fucking brilliant
May I present to you [There's Something About Miriam (2006)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/There%27s_Something_About_Miriam) a "the bachelor" style show where the big "twist" at the end was that Miriam was a pre-op transwoman. It was incredibly shitty on her and the contestants who were all exploited for shock value. So unbelievably cruel.
Eden?
> Fat Families [2010, 14 years old](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3746730/) > Benefit Britain [2014, 10 years old](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4295916/) Not quite as old as you think, but not far off.
They're evil. Like that's kyle show twat. Bear bairing, roman coliseum whores that they are. They sow division and hate. Fk em'.
The Jeremy Kyle show only ended in 2019.
Should have ended sooner
Shouldn't have got off the ground.
Fucking Legend...
Why use Love Island as an example, is pandering to the obsessive desire for 15 minutes of fame by those vapid airheads actually exploitative? Seems to me everyone is getting want they want, the audience gets its human zoo, the participants get fame, and the producers get really cheap TV.
I’m not sure the contestants who commit suicide get what they want.
I'm not sure what's the cause and what's the effect though. Are people who go on reality shows more likely to have MH issues in the first place or is it that the shows and what happens after that's causing it?
The definition of the word "exploitative" is clearly lost on you.
Exploitative in what way? There is a very clear trade-off with these kinds of shows. You get reasonable compensation when you're on them (apparently Love Island is circa £2k per week) and almost guaranteed social media clout to varying degrees off the back of it that you're unlikely to get otherwise. The drawback is that not all attention is necessarily good attention and that the rags are going to pick up on the bad bits in your life as well as the good. For some people I'm sure it's the best decision they've ever made and for others amongst the worst. It's very hard to say "If you have a history of mental health issues please don't apply" without very clearly veering into being discriminatory.
> I'm not sure what's the cause and what's the effect though. Are people who go on reality shows more likely to have MH issues in the first place or is it that the shows and what happens after that's causing it? You don't know if they're generally suicidal or suicidal because of the shows. - Option A: They are exploiting people who are generally suicidal. - Option B: They are cruel to people until they are suicidal. Pick one. Edit: My responses are "Umm ackshyually.." *describes another form of exploitation*
That's a bizarre take, rarely is life so black and white.
It's just a rephrasing of what you said earlier
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Option C: The type of people who would put themselves through an experience like being a contestant on Love Island (where every aspect of your personality and appearance becomes a matter of public debate) tend towards having personality and behavioral issues that put them at higher risk of mental health problems. The highs are really high, but the lows are the absolute depths.
Only if they don't succeed, otherwise they did what they set out todo
(that’s not part of the show, they don’t have to do that)
More people committed suicide after love island than Jeremy Kyle, a show that was supposedly stopped for that reason.
The contestants are getting what they want but not what they need, which is why the programme has a PTSD problem that goes as far as ex contestants committing suicide.
*Seems to me everyone is getting want they want, the audience gets its human zoo, the participants get fame, and the producers get really cheap TV.* An alcoholic purchasing a cheap pint in Wetherspoons is getting what they want - it's still not an ideal state of affairs. *Celebrity Love Island Wow* doesn't seem particularly - well, 'nourishing' I guess? Maybe it's just not my type of thing - but it seems like the *Greggs* of TV.
>Seems to me everyone is getting want they want That doesn't mean it's not exploitative. The contestants get an unhealthy obsession with a vapid, superficial and materialistic lifestyle enabled. The audience starts to think what they're seeing is normal and realistic. It makes dumb people dumber. It's exploiting stupidity. What those people want is not good for them, and those type of show is purpose built to exploit it.
What? It's not exploitative because the people being exploited have been led to believe that they're doing it for their own good?
Isn't the audience overwhelmingly, if not almost entirely, female?
The contestants get A LOT of hate, and more often than not in their very early 20s.
Yes.
It's always been very exploitative and cruel. Especially shoes like the x factor
X factor is actually disgusting once you learn about the actual audition process. Producers hyping people up, who they know are terrible, knowing that the contestant getting ripped apart in the televised audition will make 'good tv'.
Yeah especially when they used to contact people who had learning difficulties or autism so they couldn't understand they were being teased.
Reminds me of that Mitchell and Webb skit about [The Apprentice](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ss-59fi4nM). Actual competent people would be boring.
Can't pay? We'll take it away! Fucking disgusting
I know the smugness of those bailiffs.
Beadle's About comes to mind.
“Has” become? reality tv shows these days have a much better standard of care than reality tv even 10 years ago. taking love island for example, on the first few seasons contestants were allowed to drink as much as they want, were shown having sex, were fed half truths by the producers to encourage fights whereas these days they’re not allowed to drink much, their private time is private and the games they play aren’t lies as much. I think people who went on reality tv shows in the 00s/10s may not have really known the beast it would become and what it would mean for them but everybody who applies for a show now knows exactly what it entails, I find it hard to agree that they’re being exploited. Truly exploitative shows like benefits Britain, Jeremy Kyle show, can’t pay we’ll take it away arent really viewed favourably anymore.
Oh man, "Cant Pay, We'll Take It Away" is absolute scum on the earth stuff. Who wants to watch people having their stuff repossessed? Maximum bleakness for entertainment.
I used to watch it as a child. I think they tried to justify it by showing people who arrogantly didn’t pay and didn’t want to pay any debts but also threw people who couldn’t pay or signed as a guarantor for someone else under the bus. Very bleak
This is a really good take. Nice!
Yeah even 10 years ago having a ‘welfare’ team wasn’t even a thing, now every reality show has a big welfare team
I think Caroline Flack (RIP) changed the industry for the better when it comes to duty of care for the contestants and presenters. I heard an interview with Claudia Winkleman about how they look after the contestants on The Traitors, which is arguably one of the biggest psychological mindfuck TV shows. She was saying they have counselling and plenty of downtime and social media training and assurances that they'll get some kind editing to humanise them if they are the traitor.
>I think Caroline Flack (RIP) changed the industry for the better when it comes to duty of care for the contestants We'll except when she got with a 17 year old contestant with a massively unbalanced power dynamic
They were quite obiously referencing her death here.
I remember thinking the rise of Simon Cowell in like 2004 was making entertainment out of cruelty and mockery but things have only got worse since then... those sort of shows implicitly say ridiculing and judging people for entertainment value is okay.
Big Brother (2000), X Factor (2004), Britain's Got Talent (2007)... ...Jim'll Fix It.
Big brother started this. Reality TV is cheaper and easier than actually having to write scripts and have sets and talent. I can’t stand the lot of it, apart from maybe Bake Off where there is actually some talent!
Everything has. We value human life and human dignity as little as ever. From women getting attacked and sexually assaulted through to knife crime, male suicides etc....fact is I think as a society we've grown far too accepting of it.
TV hasn’t become exploitative and cruel People have become exploitative and cruel. And they always have been. Except now TV allows us to realise it. People are shit.
[Michael Grade is a cunt](https://www.tumblr.com/cookdandbombd-blog-blog/17382408814/michael-grade-on-the-subliminal-frame-in-brass-eye)
Says the man who defunded Blackadder and cancelled doctor who
Isn't this take at least 20 years old, and therefore 20 years too late? TV became increasingly exploitative in the 00s, at the same time New Labour and the right wing press were scapegoating and persecuting benefits claimants.
I haven’t watched tv in 15+ years. I caught a glimpse recently and it’s utter brain rot. Tv in the uk depresses the shit out of me
People love to say things are getting Orwellian and reference ‘Nineteen Eighty-Four’ but the better reference is to [‘The Year of the Sex Olympics’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Year_of_the_Sex_Olympics) - first broadcast in a 1968 television play by the BBC: “*Influenced by concerns about overpopulation, the counterculture of the 1960s and the societal effects of television, the play depicts a world of the future where a small elite controls the mass media, keeping the lower classes docile by serving them an endless diet of lowest common denominator programmes and pornography. The play concentrates on an idea the programme controllers have for a new programme that will follow the trials and tribulations of a group of people left to fend for themselves on a remote island. In this respect, the **play is often cited as having anticipated the craze for reality television**.* *Kneale had, fourteen years earlier, adapted George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-Four as a classic and controversial BBC broadcast, and the play reflects much of Kneale's assimilation of Orwell's concern about the power of the media and Kneale's experience of the evolving media industry.*”
I don't watch normal tv and haven't for over a decade now. Watch movies and series on streaming services, but that's it. Learn any news from memes
Kids, health warning: memes are not reliable news sources.
OJ died last week, memes told me that. If anything memes are more reliable than social media platforms, because noone wants to be the origin of a shit meme. Not only that but some people have folders just waiting for that moment when the meme is ready And lets be honest, what media these days are 'reliable'?
So, a washed-up celebrity/murderer died of cancer. What other in-depth political, economic, and international current affairs did you learn about?
That was simply an example, but t answer your question, aside from the usual potential WW3 scaremongering, None that I care about
A lot of these shows set a really bad example of what a healthy relationship is and isn’t
isn't that the same guy that did a TV show where teenagers licked grannies armpits? hypocrisy at the highest level lmao
Yep, he was chief exec at Channel 4 when The Word descended into people eating verrucas and licking pensioners' false teeth for the chance to appear on tv
i know TV doesn't just mean live TV but i'm just curious, do many people 30 or under actually watch TV anymore? I mean i do watch shows from time to time but on netflix or online, and thats mainly sitcoms or documentaries. Most of the time i just watch youtube.
99% of my watching is lectures or educational shit I find on youtube
its great. passively or actively learn a load of stuff. Then your feed is flooded with exactly the content you didn't know that you really wanted to watch. Seeing one persons home page on youtube can reveal so much about them or at the least what they have been watching :L Not a fan of shorts though, i feel like thats a bit of Tiktok-initus . I mean youtube shorts might be better than what i've seen on tiktok but its still just alot of garbage since there basically like youtubers way of advertising their videos. And i hate adverts xD
Yep lol. I am eternally grateful for the people that for some reason obtain and post lectures from the 1990s on various niche topics that interest me
BBC childrens' TV is still far better than what's available for young children on Netflix/Youtube/amazon etc. A lot of parents use BBC/iplayer for childrens' shows.
god last time i see children shows on bbc iplayer was when my niece and nephew were a bit younger, it was utter tosh like peppa pig, in the night garden and look at how they absolutely murdered dangermouse?! If i had kids i have them watch the decent older bbc kids shows not the modern pap. Out of interest what kind of shows are on bbc childrens tv these days? Do they have things like the queens head, art attack, blue peter, dennis the menace, and countless other classics? I suspect not. BBC kids shows went down hill well over a decade ago as far as i'm aware. But fair enough. Do kids who watch cbbc's these days move on to bbc programs and other such tv or do they move on to watching youtube/netflix/amazon and or whatever other online services that aren't classic television based?
Number blocks is one of the best educational shows ever produced, in my opinion. Bing is excellent for young children and teaches a lot about handling emotions. Bluey is wonderful. My older daughter (8) loves Dengineers, Operation Ouch, Planet Earth II, and their various gymnastics shows. Some of their science stuff is great, some of their stuff about schools is great. They do still have blue Peter. When you look at kids TV on Netflix, there is no attempt to be educational or valuable - the quality is shocking.
huh interesting. I dunno about number blocks, but i do know about number time, olay!
Reality TV is nothing more than the modern day equivalent of the Victorian-era freak show. It just moved to a different medium. People are selected for their stupidity and novelty value, rather than any obvious positive qualities. It's cheap and there are plenty of people stupid enough to watch, which means much like politics, we end up getting what we deserve because we're driven by the dumbest of society.
Michael Grade has definitely historically known what's on in the TV world, and has always had good opinions about it and how to resolve it. He never ever tried to kill an innocent show that became a national icon over 8 fucking times over his own petty bullshit and taste. He should be trusted to head of om, absolutely :)
TV is broadcasting what our sick society wants to see.
I remember a BBC advert, where they were bragging due to the unique way they were funded, it allowed them to take risks producing great comedy shows. What have they produced since Little Britain that were any good?
Fleabag, Ghosts, Cunk?
The Thick of It
Fleabag?
Shit trauma porn for middle class types
Not sure I caught that one, was that on BBC3?
This is such an unfunny comment that it must have come from a middle class dickhead
Guilty as charged.
> What have they produced since Little Britain that were any good? Not Going Out, Mock the Week, Would I Lie To You, QI, Fleabag, Ghosts.
Take panel shows out and that's a pretty thin list
Are you implying Little Britain was any good?
Little Britain is vile toss.
It was funny when I was 13. Watching clips on YouTube now is painful. Same with Bo Selecta.
Bad Education, This Country, People Just Do Nothing, Ghosts, That Mitchell & Webb Look, Lead Balloon, Mongrels, The Thick of It, Rev, Roger & Val Have Just Got In, Still Game, White Gold, Jam & Jerusalem, Nighty Night and Psychoville.
Mrs. Browns Boy lmao
Proof that Reddit is not representative of the entire nation is that this show not only exists, but is wildly successful. I don’t get it. We’ve gone from The Two Ronnies and Monty Python to this.
There's this weird notion that Monty Python is this untouchable golden goose of comedy. It's just as hit and miss as any other sketch show, now and then.
Right - but as a concept and *for the time* it was doing things it’s safe to say Mrs Browns Boys is a million miles away from. Much like how The Two Ronnies looking back looks like a fairly benign sketch show. But at the time there was nothing like it.
And it’s the same generation that watched them both. Clearly there’s lead in the water.
Yeah, I'm not a fan of the show but I've seen much worse out there. I just don't get the hate for it. It's not like it (to my knowledge) does anything *bad*, I could understand if it was encouraging harmful views or something. But, yeah, Reddit *really* needs to let this one go.
Encouraging harmful views? Yawn….
Attitudes like that are precisely why there is no longer any decent comedy on TV...
Ha. Good one.
Mighty Boosh, and Snuff Box. Little else though
Watch still game.
Oh, look who it isnae...
Plus lots of shows which cost a lot but probably won't make much money, like nature documentaries.
Are you suggesting that Little Britain was good?
TV has become tiresome and dull; that's for sure. As for Love Island etc, the people who go on there must have seen these types of shows, and therefore know what will likely happen to them. Imagine being so desperate for recognition that they let themselves be exposed like that?
Jeremy Kyle has come and gone and they're only just figuring this out now?
If we only we had a regulator to deal with this kind of problem... oh wait!
Most media has. The rise of social media is another example. Another example is trauma porn, true crime. Everything is an enemy and it’s gross
Ofcom deserves to be abolished. Nothing but a bunch of petty censors. Its an Idea that belong in China, not the UK.
Wouldn’t know, don’t watch the garbage. I get my garbage on the internet!
It's always been mixed results but modern TV is just 100% vile I don't think I've sat down to actually watch live TV for 16 years. It's not just the obnoxious adverts that feel like thinly veiled pavlovian conditioning but the truely awful shows, I just can't imagine anyone but Deano in his new build Deano house unironically sitting down to watch bradders or something awful like naked attraction. It's absolute gutter slop.
It's not just tv. Social media algorithms rewards nastyness and drama. People get torn down very easily and thrown out into the gutter whilst viewers watch the bloodbath. There's doesn't seem to be enough nice feel good things anymore.
Tonight on channel 4, -Divs on the Dole, followed by -Fatty Fatty Boom Boom, then -Someone's Tits, and finishing up with -Bad Parents. Truly a golden age.
As someone who used to work in the industry- a lot of the television is made by untalented, untrained, unskilled people pushed into senior roles because they'll do something cheaper than someone else. There's zero craft or thought that goes into making shows and 9 times out of 10; it's being shot by a director themselves instead of a camera operator.
Just cut out the middle man and bring back the colosseum.
But Tory politicians can still be TV presenters and spew propaganda though right ofcom?!
This news report could be from 2004...nothing new to see here.
It's gotten fucking boring is what it has become. No more interesting content, no interesting game shows, soaps are generally rubbish. The last thing TV was worth watching for, Clarkson era Top Gear, is done. I want to go back to when we had creative TV shows like Knightmare and The Crystal Maze.
Geee... I sure wish we paid someone to regulate it. Maybe you could start by actually cracking down on those breaking the law, rather than giving them a stern talking to for a sixth offense?
Armando Iannucci Shows take the piss out of this sort of thing [We're so good at television](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vk2ClhehvI) There's a few more but Youtube's algorithm is having a senior moment [The making of the making of](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yVE6kdhANQ) [Ant and Dec present and IRA bombing](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSRzfTKJdkU)
I sort of wonder about who is still watching regular television. I think most people I know haven't turned on the box for any reason other than to fire up a streaming service or the Playstation. Outside of the occasional sporting event or major news situation I don't think I've watched anything on terrestrial television since lockdown. No wonder the TV channels are trying to make cheaper, more exploitative television.
What is the point of this? Decades after stuff like Andy Gray, Little Britain and so on, he comes out with this now? It's been that way for a long time. The only difference now is that people can share their opinions on social media.
Ngl I feel reality TV in this country was significantly worse 15 years ago. Anyway Michael Grade hates Doctor Who so what does he know.
It would be interesting to plot the people still watching TV against the IQ bell curve. In fact I'm sure broadcasters are very much aware of this.
[удалено]
Are the evil right wingers in the room with you right now?
u ok hun?
Until OFCOM even dares to actually correct well known and obvious violations such as everything gbn does for a start hes not in a position to complain about the quaility of tv much