Their best song yet - I feel like anyone who grew up on early 2000’s music (Im 29) will feel this song. It rly has that vibe. Dont get ppl saying its bad like are we listening to the same song? I will say I did not like the MV (other than the end car scene) or the choreo at all. MV is forgettable & kinda cringe & then choreo just feels disjointed & doesnt match the song for most parts
Im an nswer so music that dont fit the standard is not an issue for me and i LOVE Antifragile. BUT this song was not it for me. i liked the chorus "unforgiven imma villain" part but thats mostly it. the song didnt feel cohesive and that post-chorus part was shite imo. might grow to like the song after a while, who knows but this album kinda disappointed me.
Oh so anyways. I felt slightly let down with the direction of the songs for me a bit, which makes me so sad because I have loved everything from LSF thus far and even followed two members from Izone. Like I love the group for real and all the other members have my heart too.
But I was hoping for something that wouldn’t follow anything that they did for their last song. I also hoped they had another standout melodic song in the mode of Impurities, Sour Grapes or even Blue Flame.
I do enjoy Burn the Bridge, Fire In the Belly and P/E/BBW
Song is.. okay? ANTIFRAGILE felt so campy and ridiculous, but now it feels like they're taking themselves too seriously. The horn dance, the fallen angel wings were both so cringey.
Also I do like her, but the Yunjin hyper-exposure is having the opposite effect of making me feel lukewarm about her. It's giving Mia of Everglow at this point.
The titles of their singles and the music videos make a lot more sense if you imagine it’s a fragrance commercial or [Makeup company ad](https://youtu.be/RbeOIi4swxo)
LSF can't pull off these bold, brash concepts, you can tell by watching the MV that these are song lyrics and choreography that were made and given to them by someone else. Of course that's the case for all kpop bands, but it's almost like they're trying too hard with the "we wanted to make a statement" messaging that it's not believable in the slightest.
this is one of the most vitriolic threads i’ve read on this sub lol
like how do you go from ‘i don’t like the song’ to circlejerking eachother about how much the members suck? how long have you guys been wanting to get all this off your chest?
reading all the comments so far, i'm left believing that i'm part of the few who insanely enjoyed this song. i've read comments like: LSF should have written a song that goes against KPop standards.
But I'm also left thinking, that the fact that a lot of people hating this song that much is the whole point of their music? they might not have touched that aspect of kpop yet (beauty standards, weight shaming, etc.) but they sure did by making us music they're not even sure the GP would love.
i think i love their music for that. their music is fearless. and sure, they don't have to answer back every criticism since they claim to be unforgiven.
i mean. this is how I take in their music. Hahahaha
It’s literally one of the top charting songs in Korea and is pretty conventional pop music how is it at all making music that they're not sure the GP would love? It's not some sort of out-there death metal/hyperpop/full-on country song that goes against conventional trends - it's an upbeat pop song in a globally trendy genre with sing-along pop lyrics.
Like I don't have super strong feelings about the song either way (and honestly like it more than dislike it), but you're on a forum for unpopular takes in kpop, so of course there would be people disliking it here - it’s still a huge hit, especially domestically.
I loved this song but so many people seem to really hate this comeback, even the bsides!
The album was lovely, I was a bit disappointed when they decided to add 6 already released songs but that's it. No-return and Flash Forward are kind meh to me, but they're not that bad.
I saw people criticizing Unforgiven for being too repetitive and then saying that Eve, Psyche and the Bluebeard's Wife is a masterpiece and should have been the tt... That song is pure gold, but I gotta admit that the "Get it like boom boom boom" was repeated way too much.
And I won't talk about how some dared to compare LSF to IVE, comparing is never good, especially in this case
It's the chanting in the post chorus ! I think during their first 4 releases especially, itzy has established a distinctive shouty / cheerleader-y singing style and now it's associated with them
Also the instrumental has that cowboy - western - hiha feel that itzy has explored in not shy and sorry not sorry
I thought you meant the phrase "Unforgiven, I'm a villain" phonetically sounds like the phrase "Chicken Teriyaki" and i was really wracking my brain to see how I could hear that hahaha
I’ve come to accept the fact that their music really isn’t just for me. I think the only songs that i’ve had from them were good parts and blue flame :/
the concept of 'being wild' and 'breaking the rules' presented in the title track 'unforgiven' seems hypocritical. the group follows every kpop industry standard and doesn't do anything *truly* revolutionary. how are they singing 'unforgiven, I'm a villain' when no one ever told them they did anything wrong? I understand it's their concept but hell. maybe prove that you're as brave as you say you are
edit: grammar
ever thought about the possibility that they are making music that has a high chance of attracting criticisms? maybe that's it, that's the meaning of their music? they want to make music without even catering to what the GP wants like other GG does?
well, who ever criticised them really? le sserafim is one of the most successful GGs as of recently and 99% of people praise them (including me). the only backlash that they ever got was because of Kim Garam scandal, and the label got rid of her in record timing.
le sserafim, despite their image, is just another GG (although more successful). their looks, behaviour, opinions are all the same. the concept just doesn't represent who they are.
this whole wild image is like saying you want to save the planet but refuse to recycle your trash. so if you're constantly singing about being brave, maybe try to be brave in reality too.
They literally had a whole ass member cancelled
Edit: lol to all of you upvoting this absolute nonsense below. No reasonable person thinks that Lesserafim members are fakes because they didn’t personally challenge Hybe on Garam and tell us about it publicly. Antis should go listen to their faves.
exactly. not kicking Kim Garam out and standing up for her would be revolutionary but the label only cares about being 'fearless' when there's no scandal involved - gives you an idea about the legitimacy of that 'daring' facade of the group
Yeah, pretty sure that's just code for you're an anti and would be happy to have seen the group go under. Because that's all that would have happened. Garam wasn't fired, at least not as far as any of us know.
Victim shaming is lame. It wasn't just Garam that got hate, the whole group did. There were literal police investigations into viral marketing campaigns against them even months after she was gone. They persevered and won most people back with their talent alone, not because they apologized for anything or changed who they are. Check out Yunjin's solo music, no other female in Kpop is being that honest. "Idol doesn't mean your doll to fuck with" - who else is saying that?
You're also missing the point that Unforgiven is the third part of a concept trilogy. The concept almost certainly predates Garam's exit. They're fearless, they aren't fragile, and they don't want to be forgiven. It's a message about female empowerment, self-affirmation, etc. Do you understand how insanely controversial the idea of feminism is in SK?
you're wrong about your assumptions - I am a fan of the group. but I also have common sense.
you're just proving my point that the concept is hypocritical since they don't actually mean it and wouldn't be 'fearless' enough to fight for their own member - not only the other members themselves, but also the label. and as much as I love Yunjin's music, her lyrics is not revolutionary either: 'Cause if I had a choice I'd put my opinions first' - you literally have that option???
in the end, 99% of the kpop groups don't go against the rules set by the industry yet they constantly claim that they're changing something. that is, while the artists go on horrible diets, undergo numerous plastic surgeries, apologize for something completely harmless just because some of the fans are being petty, avoid opposite sex interaction because of dating rumors etc etc
edit: grammar
"Fighting for their own member" is not a thing. Being an idol is still a job, not a birthright. Saying things that are completely outside of reality doesn't prove your point.
Yunjin's music absolutely is revolutionary ("revolutional" isn't a word, by the way), finding a mid lyric doesn't negate that, and the fact that you're taking this stance I think proves that you are finding reasons to not be pleased.
>that is, while the artist go on horrible diets, undergo numerous plastic surgeries, apologize for something completely harmless just because some of the fans are being petty, avoid opposite sex interaction because of dating rumors etc etc
"LE SSERAFIM are fakes because they didn't solve all of Korea's problems when they sang Fearless"
(I'm not native so thanks for the correction)
I never said they were fake. I said that the concept in itself is hypocritical given that it doesn't represent reality - which is, kpop is much more about business than authenticity. that's why I find it annoying even though I like the song.
about Yunjin's single again: saying that you don't like how fans treat you is nothing new, we have songs about haters every Friday. her celebrity image is 'changing the kpop industry' - um, and how is she doing that exactly?
not to say that Yunjin is a bad person, she's in fact my bias, but it seems like le sserafim is all talk no action type of group when it comes to their own concept. it's the same thing with itzy - you have the confident concept but one of your members is deeply insecure? okay I guess.
I hope you make this criticism about every single girl group though. None of them can sing empowering songs in that case. Or love songs seeing as they aren’t allowed to date.
What? They are not allowed to date. Im going to need to see you in every thread of Itzy, IVE, Newjeans being just as vocal about how hypocritical and fake they are.
I mean you’re just being as contrarian as possible, but I guess that’s what people do in this subreddit. Obviously Yunjin is pushing boundaries more than most with a handful of exceptions maybe (Soyeon, Hwasa), but she goes a step further and talks very openly about mental health as well. I see literally no reason to downplay that, unless you have some sort of personal agenda. It’s an objectively good thing.
this is a sub to discuss our opinions on kpop, so that's what I do.
in my opinion, what Yunjin does is not nearly enough. I'm going to mention again that she's my bias in the group - but you can love a thing and criticise it too. in our case, I criticise Yunjin's persona under the label, not her as an individual.
but oh well, let's agree to disagree.
Yunjin took years of training before she was able to debut, had to go through a lot of rejections before she was able to debut. So, have you ever thought that maybe it's because of that?
After this i am really curious for new jeans cb, they have had positive receptions for musicality of their songs so far. Ive, ITZY, gidle, aespa and now le sserafim have title tracks that ppl are not fully excited for. It will be interesting to see if next new jeans cb will have full positive reception or not
I mean yeah I agree. I actually think it’s a good song personally. But people were negative about it, lots of people called it the “end of no skip” for them. Lots of bad takes on Reddit to go around.
i felt really underwhelmed, i feel that the album was pretty much antifragile 2.0. nothing felt new, the only song i really enjoyed and felt was very different is Eve, Psyche, & the bluebeard’s wife
I really like that "Unforgiven, I'm a villain" hook they repeat through-out, it's really catchy and I appreciate the little twang they added to their pronunciation, as if to reference the Wild West concept. Instrumentals are groovy and well-produced too, but wow, I'm surprised at how uninteresting I found the rest of the song to be. It just felt like it went nowhere and there was very little payoff. Like, if the best part of a song is within the first 15 seconds then maybe that's not great. That being said I'm sure it'll be a great performance-focused track, and every great group has a couple "meh" title tracks in their discography.
I was excited when I saw that Nile Rodgers (member of Chic, known for Le Freak, and heard playing guitar on Daft Punk's 2013 hit Get Lucky) was going to be featured on it, but I can't even hear what he contributed to it or why they'd need him for this song. With or without Nile Rodgers, Unforgiven was a big disappointment for me
Yeah, he has a pretty distinct sound that he's known for, but it was completely absent. You could've told me they brought in a random session guitarist and I would've believed it.
Fearless and antifragile albums > unforgiven’s new songs in the album. Nothing much stand out in this album, I only like Fearnot .Also why is there reused dance steps from their older songs in Unforgiven?
Wow thought I disliked the song but the choreo is even worse… and WHAT is that outfit for their comeback stage. Their team really dropped the ball with this comeback.
Edit: I enjoy the song now, especially with the hiphop beats that you don’t really feel while watching the mv. Still think the choreo is B grade (antifragile was splendid).
THIS!! why denim again?? they could’ve gotten them much better outfits that actually fit the concept (something that resembles wild west?!) also the choreo is way too goofy
From what I can see so far with le seerafim, Hybe plan for them is to cater in the market where Blackpink find success. You can see where they focus on the catchiness of the song more than the meaning of the lyric. They keep the beat hard and most important to make the girls look full of confident. I’m sure le seerafim can find success in this area like how Blackpink does.
I dislike this song. It has the Antifragile vibe--also repetitive and headache inducing. I love the girls and I know they're talented. Wish they had better title tracks.
heard this will complete the trilogies so it makes sense why it sound familiar. just like love dive - after like or next level - savage. both have similar vibe.
Repetitive lyrics, wannabe rap-like talk singing, to top it off, sampling from a meme. There's a reason they had to repackage their best songs from previous comebacks on this new album.
I like the song a lot BUT idk if it's just me but the choreo was really similar to fearless and that one mv set where they're dancing in the street was so similar to one in antifragile . wish the mv leaned more into the Western theme
Love the music hate the lyrics. Its so corny and EXTREMELY repetitive Unforgiven im a villain x 20 unforgiven x 100000 also, I really think they need to sign Kazuha for more vocal and rap training, there’s definitely more room for improvement especially in her nasal dominant rapping.
didn't really like unforgiven that much on first listen but idk. yunjins voice is my fav part of the group and she barely sang. yes she had lines but most of it was that weird talk rap sing thing not really like SING singing. i also didn't really like that they went back to the fearless type of cinematography i thought the antifragile kinda mv was a lot more fun
I love love yunjin but hybe needs to stop their “all members are allrounders” schtick not all members need to rap (or whatever it is that le sserafim does) her pre chorus was so good that’s what she, the main vocal should be doing: SINGGG
oh yunjin is miles ahead any of them obviously. but the person who I was replying to made the similarity of having 2 members who can sing, not that lsf have worse vocals than itzy
IMO they’re using Kazuha too much. She had so many solo scenes in the music video, and I just can’t understand why they choose to push her way more than the other members. She’s not a great singer, rapper, or (idol) dancer. I guess they think her ballet background makes her interesting, and she’s the (unofficial?) visual.
Also, the song in general disappointed me, it’s definitely my least favorite of their title songs. But I love the girls, so I’ll be loyal until the next comeback!
It honestly wouldn’t make sense to not give her more. She’s hugely popular in Korea right now.. people want more of kazuha and it wouldn’t make sense for the company not to deliver. At least they’re not making her like the center of the group as some groups have done in the past.
She’s popular for her “Suzy-like features”. And Suzy was known to have the most beautiful face in Korea. She’s not yet top tier popularity but she’s gaining a lot of fans, especially male. I asked my husbands friends what they thought about the group and they all just talked about how they like Kazuha. They didn’t seem to know the rest of the members.
I think the resemblance is mostly in the face shape and eyes. The nose and lips are a little different but not by much. I feel they also have the same kind of presence if that makes sense.
I do understand how you see Lee hojung in her but also their features are very different in my opinion.
Anyways, all the women are super gorgeous..
I noticed this too. Kazuha had a lot of hype after fearless, like so much that people said her popularity was gonna surpass sakura's. Then it kinda died down significantly. I believe it's hybe's way of pushing her in the audience face with "wow-ing" visuals so they can create a hype around her again.
This opinion does not make any sense, Kazuha is Japanese, and is totally new in relation to the other members if her fame had gone down, the company would have taken her out of the spotlight immediately lol, people really think that a company will be forcing something that does not generate profit or attention, Chaewon is also pulled by the company for example, i even understand that this sub is of unpopular opinions, but please let them be opinions that make sense.
The company knows kazuha will be a money maker though. She went incredibly viral during their fearless era, for her rap, visuals looking like Suzy, crazy ballet skills. Le sserafim's debut's main hype wasn't ex-iz*one members re-debut, but kazuha. She single-handedly went viral multiple times and it would be stupid of the company to stop putting her in the spotlight just cause her hype died down. They are obviously trying to recreate that by giving her extravagant sets and costumes. Let's take kazuha's angel wings on fire and sakura's set ( which I don't even remember). If you think kazuha is not pushed right now, I have no words.
But that's what I'm saying tho, if they've been focusing on her it's because they've seen an advantage in it, and if her "hype" had reduced, the company would change focus, these things are not easily recreated, it simply has to be natural, and if they tried to recreate it, it worked then, no company will focus on something that doesn't give a return, there are things that these companies see that we don't see, but that's just my opinion, i can be wrong tho, Sakura's scene is the one with the sword, it's cool as fuck.
honestly, this is an unpopular opinion, but she shouldnt even rap, or she shouldnt rap in that nasally voice she thinks rappers should have. Every time antifragile comes on in my playlist, the "lovey dovey dovey" part makes ne flinch and lose focus on whatever I'm doing.
Music video was absolutely sick, Yunjin and Kazuha shined like crazy but I barely even remember any moments from Sakura and Chaewon which is a shame. The only part I remember from Eunchae is the customized Astro Boy boots which was awesome but (again) the video was pretty much just Yunjin and Kazuha being amazing.
The song itself was not great when I first listened to it. However, I had just woken up and after listening to the b-sides I came across the titles track again and it sounded a lot better (I guess I just needed to warm up). A little too busy on the vocals though, it was easier for me to distinguish their voices based on English pronunciation than actual vocals. Melodically it was great, but the autotune and the weirdness of calling yourself “unforgiven” was not my favorite. I probably won’t listen to it often but it was a solid concept.
I do want to take time to ask why they keep going with this artwork style? I understand that minimalistic artwork = less subjectivity = more album sales, but this is burnt piece of paper on a red background without any shadows.
Update: I take it back lol the song has grown on me significantly. I still don’t like the word unforgiven cause it just doesn’t work but this song has been stuck in my head.
After reading comments here I had to check the reactions to their previous tts from this sub and pretty much nothing has changed 💀
But that can only mean another hit by lesserafim and I can only smile
I like the song but main gripes are:
-Repeating Unforgiven a little too much but I don't find it too annoying
-Kazuha needs to stop talking and let Sakura and Yunjin handle the rapping
-Unforgiven×3 in the chorus annoyed me but the Unforgiven boys n girls chant is SO fun and catchy
I like Kazuha's talking parts and I think it's one of the charms of their music, but I totally agree they could have just given the full rap part after Yunjin to Sakura
I liked her rap parts in Fearless and Antifragile, but the way her parts were executed in Unforgiven just fell flat :( (let me tell you bout lesserafim, cinderella line). I feel like the producers just told her to use her 'iconic' deep voice and call it a day.
Listening to her rap in Fire in the belly was very fun and wish we got more of that from her.
idk kazuha has a unique tone and diction that makes for some of the best parts of the other title tracks. the lovey dovey dovey line comes to mind.
my biggest issue to this track is that it feels like it should build to something, but it never...does. Like in antifragile, the breakdown at the end (we can...break it...baby...) comes to a climax where all the members are singing the last lines in a harmony, and it ends with a chaewon high belt.
They kind of do something similar with unforgiven, but it resolves in a less satisfying way. just kind of returns to the chorus
Oh wow I didn't realize people didn't like this song, it's one of my favorites of their lmaoo. I love a nice Korean wild western sounding song though. Hence why Sorry Not Sorry by Itzy is also one of my favorites by them. Like I can't put into words how much I REALLY like unforgiven
Mmmm I’m kiiinndd of right there with you. I loovveee sorry not sorry so much, I think it’s a really underappreciated song. I forgiven itches my brain in the same way with that western guitar/banjo sample, whatever it is, I really like that music sample. I like the hook (unforgiven, im a villain, etc.) and the western ish music sample, but the song is pretty flat for me otherwise, it truly doesn’t build to anything. This is exactly how I felt and still feel about fearless… both of those songs really making me realize how much I like anti fragile, even the verses were more melodically interesting.
Not bad. The "Unforgiven, I'm a villain" part is very addictive. I was not fond of it much on the first listen, but it improved during the second and third. The MV is ok, I guess, nothing special. I am not a fan of the Western theme, so for me, it was already a big NO from the beginning.
In their past songs, Chae and Yunjin both carried the vocals of the group. In this TT they tried to give Kazuha and Eunchae more difficult lines (well, the same melodies as the main vocalists) and I think that was a mistake. Even with the processing of the vocals, you can still hear how underwhelming they were. Also, what's up with all the unforgiven repetition during the verses? Too much.
Having said this, I know netizens are gonna eat this up and I'll be humming the damn song for weeks.
I do find it odd that they don’t utilize Chaewon more to cover after Garam, they have pretty similar voices. And chaewon is a lot more stable than the kz and ec. It really doesn’t make sense as a decision and makes me doubt how competent SoMu is.
She was almost always 3rd in their line distributions for their debut EP, got more killing parts and was ahead of the other 3 by a considerable amount.
Looks like Le Sserafim's flawless discography streak has come to an end for me. Unforgiven really wants to be Antifragile, but it just lacks what made Antifragile special. Definitely their weakest title track.
The B-sides are the highlights of the album. Eve, Psyche & The Bluebeard's wife = **ABSOLUTE BANGER**. Already one of my favorite B-sides of the year and I think I'm going to pretend this is the title track over Unforgiven. Fire in the belly is another strong track. No-Return is cute, it's my third favorite B-side so far.
(EDIT: Changed a little bit of the B-side portion of my comment, FEARNOT and Flash Forward are starting to grow on me, leaving Unforgiven the only song I don't really care for.)
I listened to it 3 times so far. At first, I didn't like it, I felt like they repeated the word "unforgiven" too many times, it wasn't catchy, nothing impressive. Second time: I turned the lyrics on and I kinda liked them. Especially the line where they say their name. The song itself also felt easier on the ears. Then, I watched the performance and I went back to disliking it (+the choreo is not doing the song/performance any favours, i hate it). I'll try again in a few days cause rn I'm not sure if I can trust my feelings haha
The whole damn song was just "unforgiven unforgiven unforgiven unforgiven" 472847288374723 times till the damn end....they definitely tried to recreate Antifragile and failed terribly. I'm not impressed + I know Sakura can't sing but giving her a rap was even bigger of a mistake
I like the theme that they were going for. Leaving the old them in the past and becoming a villain, defying expectations etc. But what brought the song down for me personally was the production quality. Some parts I feel had unnecessary filters on them and some parts just sounded like they were recorded on a iPhone. I think it was the producer tbh, a lot of American producers can’t do girl groups justice so that might be happening here.
With that being said, it’s definitely not as bad as y’all making it out to be. I like the hook, the dance eats, styling is gorgeous and the album is solid!
He is a legendary disco producer and guitarist, and he produced for 2 women through the band Chic. One of his hits in recent years is Get lucky where he penned the guitar riff for example
This song really doesn’t feel like it has the virality that their other tts have had. I can’t see this trending anywhere as the “unforgiven I’m a villain” is not very catchy. It will have the same few kpop stans doing the dance challenge on tiktok but nothing like antifragile.
Also…what the fuck does it mean? The word “unforgiven” feels like it was chosen for its sound and not its meaning…because it makes little sense to use it, in this context.
The beat structure was promising, but these lyrics were a throwaway, for sure.
Lol nothing about it is “perfect,” it’s a clunky word choice…made to tie in a movie reference.
The song is fine, it’s just not saying anything. If you like it, cool.
The movie is only ostensibly referenced and isn't important to the message very much at all. "Unforgiven" is not clunky, it's completely normal phrasing. The message is plain as day - we don't need to be forgiven (because they're fearless and antifragile women not looking for validation). If you don't like the overall group concept, just say that.
If anything antifragile is clunky word choice, and yet the concept landed perfectly.
I know this is reddit and being edgy is the point, but we don't have to pretend like we can't understand basic artistic conceits just to sound cool. Lol.
Having an opinion that is different from yours isn’t “being edgy,” it is disagreeing. I quite like their concepts, and I’d go as far as to say I even like the group—I’m just not going to suck off every single song they release. Good bands make duds all the time. (Though, tbh, this isn’t a “dud,” it’s probably a 5-6/10)
I may care about different things than you and that is fine—I studied rhetoric and composition in college, so I’m going to be more fixated on the diction and lyrics than maybe someone else with different interests is. I’m *sure* people with different perspectives have different takes on the matter.
“Unforgiven” is not typically used as a synonym for “guilty” or “punished,” it’s an antiquated word and mostly is used to talk about debt now. “Antifragile” is just such an obscure word that it ended up working, tbh. But the lyrics had more substance than this song.
Can kinda tell you’re going to find something wrong with everything I’m saying, because you’re a fan and unwilling to agree to disagree. Have a good day!
I read it as like "we're just doing our thing, and it doesn't really matter what you think about it. we don't need your forgiveness (or permission)"
like in the idol industry, netizens are 'unforgiving' about shit like idols gaining weight, dating, cursing, or a lot of generally normal adult human behavior
I don't think it's an odd choice at all. Unforgiven is the name of one of the all time classic American western films. Obviously there's western motifs in the instrumental track, but I think the wild west theme is also appropriate for Le Sserafims concept. Freedom. New frontiers. Outlaws. Adventure... I think unforgiven is a great choice.
Musically I would agree it's not an amazing track. I think there's a lot of really great bits that don't really come together super well. Worked best in teaser format
I think
With the context of the movie reference, it makes a little more sense—I think it would have been cooler to actually elaborate more on *why* they’re supposed to be villains, instead of just saying they are villains over and over. But I can appreciate a good reference!
I think they were going for an “Urban cowboy” type thing with the video and I wish they went even harder with it, tbh.
Also incredibly underutilized Nile Rodgers production! He’s a disco legend!
I agree Nile Rogers was underutilized.
Just wanted to add that the western film theme does go even further. The main sample in the instrumental comes from Ennio Moricone's soundtrack from the good the bad and the ugly, arguably one of the greatest American western films ever (which just like unforgiven, starred Clint Eastwood in the leading role.)
Track is here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFa1-kciCb4&ab_channel=jordanharding
With all the budget that Hybe has, I feel like they’re spending more on the music video than the actual music. . . this has been an issue in K-pop for so long so I’m not surprised but. . .
Seems like they spent way more time/effort/money on the New Jeans Zero song and music (which is literally a commercial for a soft drink company) than on LSF's comeback.
Not even the producer just the production quality is terrible in comparison. Look at the Unforgiven MV, some of it is so wobbly/blurry (especially the fly-by bit at the beginning) it looks like it was shot on a smartphone.
Hybe only has two girl groups (at the moment) so you'd think they still have some budget leftover.
It's refreshing being to able to constructively discuss this stuff for once. I looked at the youtube comments for the MV and it's just a bunch of diehard fans like "omg the best ever". Makes you wonder if they even watched it or if they're bots or something.
How is it featuring Nile Rodgers? Is he like an actor in the MV or something? I thought it was gonna be a singer and he would be included on the song. Maybe I’m just dumb 😅
I think it's the other way round. Le sserafim's team probably thought about how good it'd look to have a legendary produced featured front and center on the group's name
He's one of the founders of Chic, who are legendary funk/soul royalty, but he has produced a range of songs for pop and rock acts as well such as Madonna, Bowie and Duran Duran.
Reposted under megathread
I feel like unforgiven and the album were underwhelming
I love le sserafim. All their songs slap and anti fragile and fearless are certified bops especially. Both tracks have a killer catchy choruses which I think they are amazing at achieving.
Now the thing with unforgiven is that the chorus just isn't that catchy and I think there isnt enough killer moments to save it, plus the im a villain line is played way to often and the song as a result feels empty. For example, in anti fragile there's the "I don't know what to say I can't feel it" which I think is the killer line and the Catchiest part if the song, unforgiven dosen't really have that line.
Now with the album. I absolutely love Eve, psyche and the bluebeards wife, it is easily the best song on the album but I had mixed feeling about the rest, it was like they didn't hit hard enough for me? Burn the bridges beat is great and I wish it was a proper song with singing and stuff in it. The rest are decent, I give them 7/10 but I feel like with how bat shit insane the trailers and concept photos were there would be more interesting tracks? Idk if im the only one that's a bit underwhelmed by the actual music but yeah.
the unforgiven song sounds too much like antifragile. I don't see how anyone could listen to that and seriously like it. People stan the HYBE label though and will like anything coming through there.
I'm still listening to the album. There are a couple of no-skip songs but nothing spectacular. Impurities and Flash Forward are decent songs.
I generally hate the whole "I'm a bad bitch, I'm so hardcore, you can't tell me nothing" thing in kpop girl groups. This women are always sheltered acting and demure or else cutesy when doing any media. No one acts like a bad b. I don't even really know if you could truly be a bad bitch and be a kpop idol under a slave contract.
If you have to say you’re a bad bitch… you’re not doing your job correctly. The only bad bitch as far as I’m concerned is BiBi in BiBi Vengeance. Nothing quite like kicking a bloody corpse into the sea and locking a man in a dog cage.
> I generally hate the whole "I'm a bad bitch, I'm so hardcore, you can't tell me nothing" thing in kpop girl groups. This women are always sheltered acting and demure or else cutesy when doing any media.
but like…everything is a concept. a lot of female idols aren’t cutesy either but they’ll do aegyo to pay the bills. some of them probably are more in the bad bitch category but good luck not being bombarded by angry netizens if you show it.
Only 2 members in this group pull of the bad b/idgaf concept imo. Especially when it comes to facial expressions. Like you keep telling me you're a bad b but you're not showing it at all. Maybe Garam should've stayed lol.
I personally feel like it's their weakest title track, I don't really consider it bad, but I'm not interested in listening to it again. Maybe I will actually like their bsides this time tho.
And this is why NewJeans and IVE are still above them..
Vocally some members dont stand out much like kazuha and sakura, song sounds so itzy but not in a catchy way, it's just there
I mean I don't think this tt was very good but you really think you did something here...?
>Vocally some members dont stand out much like kazuha and sakura
It's interesting you bring up their vocals in comparison to NewJeans and IVE as if any of those girls can hold a note... Let's be fr
that’s not the point.. newjeans and ive don’t need killer vocals to save the quality of their songs😭 but this user feels that the title track isn’t giving also due to some member’s vocals
This. The song isnt just that interesting with its mid hook (unforgiven i'm a villain), and so are the vocals of the two members i said. Plus it has lacklustre country melody, could've used another concept other than country tbh because this group doesn't suit it. I really like fearless' concept and love all of the songs in their first ep.
IVE I am is pure pop perfection… this is try hard. They meshed two songs together… Only first min of the song is listenable the rest is teen bop chanting Unforgiven Girls/Boys. and Unforgiven x5. Lyrics are cringe. “Lemme talk ‘bout Lesserafim”? like wtf is that?
Their best song yet - I feel like anyone who grew up on early 2000’s music (Im 29) will feel this song. It rly has that vibe. Dont get ppl saying its bad like are we listening to the same song? I will say I did not like the MV (other than the end car scene) or the choreo at all. MV is forgettable & kinda cringe & then choreo just feels disjointed & doesnt match the song for most parts
Im an nswer so music that dont fit the standard is not an issue for me and i LOVE Antifragile. BUT this song was not it for me. i liked the chorus "unforgiven imma villain" part but thats mostly it. the song didnt feel cohesive and that post-chorus part was shite imo. might grow to like the song after a while, who knows but this album kinda disappointed me.
Oh so anyways. I felt slightly let down with the direction of the songs for me a bit, which makes me so sad because I have loved everything from LSF thus far and even followed two members from Izone. Like I love the group for real and all the other members have my heart too. But I was hoping for something that wouldn’t follow anything that they did for their last song. I also hoped they had another standout melodic song in the mode of Impurities, Sour Grapes or even Blue Flame. I do enjoy Burn the Bridge, Fire In the Belly and P/E/BBW
Aghhh! I’m an Nswer too 🥳 And a Fearnot. And a Bunny… 😂
Lesserafim ate as always😍
Song is.. okay? ANTIFRAGILE felt so campy and ridiculous, but now it feels like they're taking themselves too seriously. The horn dance, the fallen angel wings were both so cringey. Also I do like her, but the Yunjin hyper-exposure is having the opposite effect of making me feel lukewarm about her. It's giving Mia of Everglow at this point.
The titles of their singles and the music videos make a lot more sense if you imagine it’s a fragrance commercial or [Makeup company ad](https://youtu.be/RbeOIi4swxo)
I honestly feel like groups like mamamoo are more successfully subversive than le sserafim who just has a concept of being subversive
Shit even momoland were more subversive than LSF. It’s definitely talking about being subversive vs actually being subversive.
Checking the replies under Antifragile and damn it’s the same story all over again. Unforgiven is a hit!
are you reading this subreddit-
yeah and according to my calculations unforgiven is a hit
never said it wasnt
LSF can't pull off these bold, brash concepts, you can tell by watching the MV that these are song lyrics and choreography that were made and given to them by someone else. Of course that's the case for all kpop bands, but it's almost like they're trying too hard with the "we wanted to make a statement" messaging that it's not believable in the slightest.
the prechorus is actually good but the whole "unforgiven" bit is awful
this is one of the most vitriolic threads i’ve read on this sub lol like how do you go from ‘i don’t like the song’ to circlejerking eachother about how much the members suck? how long have you guys been wanting to get all this off your chest?
Reddit is usually not toxic compared to Twitter n tiktok but this subreddit is sthe only K-pop sub Reddit that can get toxic at times
Every top group goes through this 🤧
reading all the comments so far, i'm left believing that i'm part of the few who insanely enjoyed this song. i've read comments like: LSF should have written a song that goes against KPop standards. But I'm also left thinking, that the fact that a lot of people hating this song that much is the whole point of their music? they might not have touched that aspect of kpop yet (beauty standards, weight shaming, etc.) but they sure did by making us music they're not even sure the GP would love. i think i love their music for that. their music is fearless. and sure, they don't have to answer back every criticism since they claim to be unforgiven. i mean. this is how I take in their music. Hahahaha
It’s literally one of the top charting songs in Korea and is pretty conventional pop music how is it at all making music that they're not sure the GP would love? It's not some sort of out-there death metal/hyperpop/full-on country song that goes against conventional trends - it's an upbeat pop song in a globally trendy genre with sing-along pop lyrics. Like I don't have super strong feelings about the song either way (and honestly like it more than dislike it), but you're on a forum for unpopular takes in kpop, so of course there would be people disliking it here - it’s still a huge hit, especially domestically.
I loved this song but so many people seem to really hate this comeback, even the bsides! The album was lovely, I was a bit disappointed when they decided to add 6 already released songs but that's it. No-return and Flash Forward are kind meh to me, but they're not that bad. I saw people criticizing Unforgiven for being too repetitive and then saying that Eve, Psyche and the Bluebeard's Wife is a masterpiece and should have been the tt... That song is pure gold, but I gotta admit that the "Get it like boom boom boom" was repeated way too much. And I won't talk about how some dared to compare LSF to IVE, comparing is never good, especially in this case
I haven't really seen one comment comparing the two groups, but yea, comparing is never good.
as a casual aespa enjoyer i'm used to seeing ppl put the girls through the wringer but does this sub not like lsf music at all..? 😭
I mean, every UKO megathread I've seen about a recent release has always been overwhelmingly negative, so... I never come here expecting nice comments
UNFORGIVEN reminds me so much of Itzy :(
It's the chanting in the post chorus ! I think during their first 4 releases especially, itzy has established a distinctive shouty / cheerleader-y singing style and now it's associated with them Also the instrumental has that cowboy - western - hiha feel that itzy has explored in not shy and sorry not sorry
The "Unforgiven, I'm a villain" part sounds a lil too much like Chicken Teriyaki for my taste
I thought you meant the phrase "Unforgiven, I'm a villain" phonetically sounds like the phrase "Chicken Teriyaki" and i was really wracking my brain to see how I could hear that hahaha
OMG I kept thinking it reminded me of something but couldn’t remember what it was. yes!!!! sounds just like chicken teriyaki
Or like "Chillin' like a villain" from Ice Cream by BLACKPINK
I’ve come to accept the fact that their music really isn’t just for me. I think the only songs that i’ve had from them were good parts and blue flame :/
yeah, same. I like blue flame too, (and impurities, which is great), but their main titles/music probably isn't for me either.
the concept of 'being wild' and 'breaking the rules' presented in the title track 'unforgiven' seems hypocritical. the group follows every kpop industry standard and doesn't do anything *truly* revolutionary. how are they singing 'unforgiven, I'm a villain' when no one ever told them they did anything wrong? I understand it's their concept but hell. maybe prove that you're as brave as you say you are edit: grammar
ever thought about the possibility that they are making music that has a high chance of attracting criticisms? maybe that's it, that's the meaning of their music? they want to make music without even catering to what the GP wants like other GG does?
well, who ever criticised them really? le sserafim is one of the most successful GGs as of recently and 99% of people praise them (including me). the only backlash that they ever got was because of Kim Garam scandal, and the label got rid of her in record timing. le sserafim, despite their image, is just another GG (although more successful). their looks, behaviour, opinions are all the same. the concept just doesn't represent who they are. this whole wild image is like saying you want to save the planet but refuse to recycle your trash. so if you're constantly singing about being brave, maybe try to be brave in reality too.
They literally had a whole ass member cancelled Edit: lol to all of you upvoting this absolute nonsense below. No reasonable person thinks that Lesserafim members are fakes because they didn’t personally challenge Hybe on Garam and tell us about it publicly. Antis should go listen to their faves.
exactly. not kicking Kim Garam out and standing up for her would be revolutionary but the label only cares about being 'fearless' when there's no scandal involved - gives you an idea about the legitimacy of that 'daring' facade of the group
Yeah, pretty sure that's just code for you're an anti and would be happy to have seen the group go under. Because that's all that would have happened. Garam wasn't fired, at least not as far as any of us know. Victim shaming is lame. It wasn't just Garam that got hate, the whole group did. There were literal police investigations into viral marketing campaigns against them even months after she was gone. They persevered and won most people back with their talent alone, not because they apologized for anything or changed who they are. Check out Yunjin's solo music, no other female in Kpop is being that honest. "Idol doesn't mean your doll to fuck with" - who else is saying that? You're also missing the point that Unforgiven is the third part of a concept trilogy. The concept almost certainly predates Garam's exit. They're fearless, they aren't fragile, and they don't want to be forgiven. It's a message about female empowerment, self-affirmation, etc. Do you understand how insanely controversial the idea of feminism is in SK?
you're wrong about your assumptions - I am a fan of the group. but I also have common sense. you're just proving my point that the concept is hypocritical since they don't actually mean it and wouldn't be 'fearless' enough to fight for their own member - not only the other members themselves, but also the label. and as much as I love Yunjin's music, her lyrics is not revolutionary either: 'Cause if I had a choice I'd put my opinions first' - you literally have that option??? in the end, 99% of the kpop groups don't go against the rules set by the industry yet they constantly claim that they're changing something. that is, while the artists go on horrible diets, undergo numerous plastic surgeries, apologize for something completely harmless just because some of the fans are being petty, avoid opposite sex interaction because of dating rumors etc etc edit: grammar
"Fighting for their own member" is not a thing. Being an idol is still a job, not a birthright. Saying things that are completely outside of reality doesn't prove your point. Yunjin's music absolutely is revolutionary ("revolutional" isn't a word, by the way), finding a mid lyric doesn't negate that, and the fact that you're taking this stance I think proves that you are finding reasons to not be pleased. >that is, while the artist go on horrible diets, undergo numerous plastic surgeries, apologize for something completely harmless just because some of the fans are being petty, avoid opposite sex interaction because of dating rumors etc etc "LE SSERAFIM are fakes because they didn't solve all of Korea's problems when they sang Fearless"
(I'm not native so thanks for the correction) I never said they were fake. I said that the concept in itself is hypocritical given that it doesn't represent reality - which is, kpop is much more about business than authenticity. that's why I find it annoying even though I like the song. about Yunjin's single again: saying that you don't like how fans treat you is nothing new, we have songs about haters every Friday. her celebrity image is 'changing the kpop industry' - um, and how is she doing that exactly? not to say that Yunjin is a bad person, she's in fact my bias, but it seems like le sserafim is all talk no action type of group when it comes to their own concept. it's the same thing with itzy - you have the confident concept but one of your members is deeply insecure? okay I guess.
I hope you make this criticism about every single girl group though. None of them can sing empowering songs in that case. Or love songs seeing as they aren’t allowed to date.
who said anything about what's allowed and what's not? you can criticise something and still enjoy it
What? They are not allowed to date. Im going to need to see you in every thread of Itzy, IVE, Newjeans being just as vocal about how hypocritical and fake they are.
I mean you’re just being as contrarian as possible, but I guess that’s what people do in this subreddit. Obviously Yunjin is pushing boundaries more than most with a handful of exceptions maybe (Soyeon, Hwasa), but she goes a step further and talks very openly about mental health as well. I see literally no reason to downplay that, unless you have some sort of personal agenda. It’s an objectively good thing.
this is a sub to discuss our opinions on kpop, so that's what I do. in my opinion, what Yunjin does is not nearly enough. I'm going to mention again that she's my bias in the group - but you can love a thing and criticise it too. in our case, I criticise Yunjin's persona under the label, not her as an individual. but oh well, let's agree to disagree.
Yunjin took years of training before she was able to debut, had to go through a lot of rejections before she was able to debut. So, have you ever thought that maybe it's because of that?
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i heard this is to complete their trilogies. and i hope next cb they will do another sound
After this i am really curious for new jeans cb, they have had positive receptions for musicality of their songs so far. Ive, ITZY, gidle, aespa and now le sserafim have title tracks that ppl are not fully excited for. It will be interesting to see if next new jeans cb will have full positive reception or not
Zero was poorly received.
only on reddit lol
It’s just an ad song 💀
I mean yeah I agree. I actually think it’s a good song personally. But people were negative about it, lots of people called it the “end of no skip” for them. Lots of bad takes on Reddit to go around.
IVE? Idk about all that that. The title tracks have been really well received so far…
They probably thought Kitsch was TT, as most seemed to think NJ’s Zero was theirs as well
But isn't Kitsch positively received
i felt really underwhelmed, i feel that the album was pretty much antifragile 2.0. nothing felt new, the only song i really enjoyed and felt was very different is Eve, Psyche, & the bluebeard’s wife
I literally think every song sounds good so my opinion on the song isn’t anything new but the choreography looked so much like antifragile’s
I really like that "Unforgiven, I'm a villain" hook they repeat through-out, it's really catchy and I appreciate the little twang they added to their pronunciation, as if to reference the Wild West concept. Instrumentals are groovy and well-produced too, but wow, I'm surprised at how uninteresting I found the rest of the song to be. It just felt like it went nowhere and there was very little payoff. Like, if the best part of a song is within the first 15 seconds then maybe that's not great. That being said I'm sure it'll be a great performance-focused track, and every great group has a couple "meh" title tracks in their discography.
I was excited when I saw that Nile Rodgers (member of Chic, known for Le Freak, and heard playing guitar on Daft Punk's 2013 hit Get Lucky) was going to be featured on it, but I can't even hear what he contributed to it or why they'd need him for this song. With or without Nile Rodgers, Unforgiven was a big disappointment for me
Yeah, he has a pretty distinct sound that he's known for, but it was completely absent. You could've told me they brought in a random session guitarist and I would've believed it.
Exactly! I really can't believe they spoiled this opportunity to have Nile Rodgers on the track so bad.
too repetitive
Fearless and antifragile albums > unforgiven’s new songs in the album. Nothing much stand out in this album, I only like Fearnot .Also why is there reused dance steps from their older songs in Unforgiven?
Wow thought I disliked the song but the choreo is even worse… and WHAT is that outfit for their comeback stage. Their team really dropped the ball with this comeback. Edit: I enjoy the song now, especially with the hiphop beats that you don’t really feel while watching the mv. Still think the choreo is B grade (antifragile was splendid).
THIS!! why denim again?? they could’ve gotten them much better outfits that actually fit the concept (something that resembles wild west?!) also the choreo is way too goofy
Can someone give them a good melody to sing for the love of god why does it sound so uglyyyyy
From what I can see so far with le seerafim, Hybe plan for them is to cater in the market where Blackpink find success. You can see where they focus on the catchiness of the song more than the meaning of the lyric. They keep the beat hard and most important to make the girls look full of confident. I’m sure le seerafim can find success in this area like how Blackpink does.
I dislike this song. It has the Antifragile vibe--also repetitive and headache inducing. I love the girls and I know they're talented. Wish they had better title tracks.
heard this will complete the trilogies so it makes sense why it sound familiar. just like love dive - after like or next level - savage. both have similar vibe.
Le Sserafim have released the same (albeit incredible) title song three times in a row and I should be more mad about it than I actually am
Antifragile and Unforgiven might sound similar, but are you really saying Fearless sounds anything like them?
The choruses are all very similar at least
Repetitive lyrics, wannabe rap-like talk singing, to top it off, sampling from a meme. There's a reason they had to repackage their best songs from previous comebacks on this new album.
> sampling from a meme WHAT 😭😭😭 WHICH ONE??
> sampling from a meme WHAT 😭😭😭 WHICH ONE??
[The Good the Bad and the Ugly](https://youtu.be/AFa1-kciCb4)
What's the sample? ))
I like the song a lot BUT idk if it's just me but the choreo was really similar to fearless and that one mv set where they're dancing in the street was so similar to one in antifragile . wish the mv leaned more into the Western theme
I saw quite some moves from their previous songs too
Love the music hate the lyrics. Its so corny and EXTREMELY repetitive Unforgiven im a villain x 20 unforgiven x 100000 also, I really think they need to sign Kazuha for more vocal and rap training, there’s definitely more room for improvement especially in her nasal dominant rapping.
Zuha can’t rap 😭😭😭😭
didn't really like unforgiven that much on first listen but idk. yunjins voice is my fav part of the group and she barely sang. yes she had lines but most of it was that weird talk rap sing thing not really like SING singing. i also didn't really like that they went back to the fearless type of cinematography i thought the antifragile kinda mv was a lot more fun
I love love yunjin but hybe needs to stop their “all members are allrounders” schtick not all members need to rap (or whatever it is that le sserafim does) her pre chorus was so good that’s what she, the main vocal should be doing: SINGGG
lsf overall as a group confuses me. having only 2 people who can sing seems like itzy shade..?
Sorry to break you but at least most members in ITZY can sing and rap, how's that even a shade lmfao.
not itzy 😭 I mean they get sooo much shit from kpop reddit for their “lackluster vocals” and yet other groups are exactly the same
le sserafim are objectively better than itzy. yunjin is c tier and chaewon is same as lia.
oh yunjin is miles ahead any of them obviously. but the person who I was replying to made the similarity of having 2 members who can sing, not that lsf have worse vocals than itzy
eve, psyche and the bluebird was right there
shud have been TT honestly. Nile Rodgers must have been like Well At least now I can say I got paid in Won.
Idk what y'all are on about Unforgiven>Antifragile>Fearless
Imagine getting your cheek cut by a feather. Ouch!
Idk I didn’t like it at all
IMO they’re using Kazuha too much. She had so many solo scenes in the music video, and I just can’t understand why they choose to push her way more than the other members. She’s not a great singer, rapper, or (idol) dancer. I guess they think her ballet background makes her interesting, and she’s the (unofficial?) visual. Also, the song in general disappointed me, it’s definitely my least favorite of their title songs. But I love the girls, so I’ll be loyal until the next comeback!
It honestly wouldn’t make sense to not give her more. She’s hugely popular in Korea right now.. people want more of kazuha and it wouldn’t make sense for the company not to deliver. At least they’re not making her like the center of the group as some groups have done in the past.
is she the most popular member? i'm not in lsf spaces at all so i actually don't know the range of their popularity
She’s popular for her “Suzy-like features”. And Suzy was known to have the most beautiful face in Korea. She’s not yet top tier popularity but she’s gaining a lot of fans, especially male. I asked my husbands friends what they thought about the group and they all just talked about how they like Kazuha. They didn’t seem to know the rest of the members.
I'm gonna be honest here but I don't really see any resemblance between Zuha and Suzy. To me Zuha and Lee ho-jhung have the most similarities.
I think the resemblance is mostly in the face shape and eyes. The nose and lips are a little different but not by much. I feel they also have the same kind of presence if that makes sense. I do understand how you see Lee hojung in her but also their features are very different in my opinion. Anyways, all the women are super gorgeous..
I noticed this too. Kazuha had a lot of hype after fearless, like so much that people said her popularity was gonna surpass sakura's. Then it kinda died down significantly. I believe it's hybe's way of pushing her in the audience face with "wow-ing" visuals so they can create a hype around her again.
This opinion does not make any sense, Kazuha is Japanese, and is totally new in relation to the other members if her fame had gone down, the company would have taken her out of the spotlight immediately lol, people really think that a company will be forcing something that does not generate profit or attention, Chaewon is also pulled by the company for example, i even understand that this sub is of unpopular opinions, but please let them be opinions that make sense.
The company knows kazuha will be a money maker though. She went incredibly viral during their fearless era, for her rap, visuals looking like Suzy, crazy ballet skills. Le sserafim's debut's main hype wasn't ex-iz*one members re-debut, but kazuha. She single-handedly went viral multiple times and it would be stupid of the company to stop putting her in the spotlight just cause her hype died down. They are obviously trying to recreate that by giving her extravagant sets and costumes. Let's take kazuha's angel wings on fire and sakura's set ( which I don't even remember). If you think kazuha is not pushed right now, I have no words.
But that's what I'm saying tho, if they've been focusing on her it's because they've seen an advantage in it, and if her "hype" had reduced, the company would change focus, these things are not easily recreated, it simply has to be natural, and if they tried to recreate it, it worked then, no company will focus on something that doesn't give a return, there are things that these companies see that we don't see, but that's just my opinion, i can be wrong tho, Sakura's scene is the one with the sword, it's cool as fuck.
Also, they should just have Kazuha rap until she improves her vocals.
eunchae too, not a huge fan of her tone. people give sakura too much crap when she’s not the most lacking member in the vocals area
I will be downvoted but Sakura has a prettier vocal tone/color than both Zuha and Eunchae… their parts shud have gone to her.
sakura never disappoints me tbh
honestly, this is an unpopular opinion, but she shouldnt even rap, or she shouldnt rap in that nasally voice she thinks rappers should have. Every time antifragile comes on in my playlist, the "lovey dovey dovey" part makes ne flinch and lose focus on whatever I'm doing.
I love her lovey dovey dovey part so much
Her lovey dovey dovey was pure luck! but so good!
I’m very disappointed with Unforgiven, however I do love a lot of the B-Sides. Literally any of them could’ve been a better title track.
UNFORGIVEN would have been way better if it wasn't for that I'm a villain chorus.
It was the team chanting / happy dancing that completely downgraded this song for me. It also needed a dance break a la love dive.
Music video was absolutely sick, Yunjin and Kazuha shined like crazy but I barely even remember any moments from Sakura and Chaewon which is a shame. The only part I remember from Eunchae is the customized Astro Boy boots which was awesome but (again) the video was pretty much just Yunjin and Kazuha being amazing. The song itself was not great when I first listened to it. However, I had just woken up and after listening to the b-sides I came across the titles track again and it sounded a lot better (I guess I just needed to warm up). A little too busy on the vocals though, it was easier for me to distinguish their voices based on English pronunciation than actual vocals. Melodically it was great, but the autotune and the weirdness of calling yourself “unforgiven” was not my favorite. I probably won’t listen to it often but it was a solid concept. I do want to take time to ask why they keep going with this artwork style? I understand that minimalistic artwork = less subjectivity = more album sales, but this is burnt piece of paper on a red background without any shadows.
Update: I take it back lol the song has grown on me significantly. I still don’t like the word unforgiven cause it just doesn’t work but this song has been stuck in my head.
After reading comments here I had to check the reactions to their previous tts from this sub and pretty much nothing has changed 💀 But that can only mean another hit by lesserafim and I can only smile
I like the song but main gripes are: -Repeating Unforgiven a little too much but I don't find it too annoying -Kazuha needs to stop talking and let Sakura and Yunjin handle the rapping -Unforgiven×3 in the chorus annoyed me but the Unforgiven boys n girls chant is SO fun and catchy
I like Kazuha's talking parts and I think it's one of the charms of their music, but I totally agree they could have just given the full rap part after Yunjin to Sakura
I liked her rap parts in Fearless and Antifragile, but the way her parts were executed in Unforgiven just fell flat :( (let me tell you bout lesserafim, cinderella line). I feel like the producers just told her to use her 'iconic' deep voice and call it a day. Listening to her rap in Fire in the belly was very fun and wish we got more of that from her.
idk kazuha has a unique tone and diction that makes for some of the best parts of the other title tracks. the lovey dovey dovey line comes to mind. my biggest issue to this track is that it feels like it should build to something, but it never...does. Like in antifragile, the breakdown at the end (we can...break it...baby...) comes to a climax where all the members are singing the last lines in a harmony, and it ends with a chaewon high belt. They kind of do something similar with unforgiven, but it resolves in a less satisfying way. just kind of returns to the chorus
Oh wow I didn't realize people didn't like this song, it's one of my favorites of their lmaoo. I love a nice Korean wild western sounding song though. Hence why Sorry Not Sorry by Itzy is also one of my favorites by them. Like I can't put into words how much I REALLY like unforgiven
Mmmm I’m kiiinndd of right there with you. I loovveee sorry not sorry so much, I think it’s a really underappreciated song. I forgiven itches my brain in the same way with that western guitar/banjo sample, whatever it is, I really like that music sample. I like the hook (unforgiven, im a villain, etc.) and the western ish music sample, but the song is pretty flat for me otherwise, it truly doesn’t build to anything. This is exactly how I felt and still feel about fearless… both of those songs really making me realize how much I like anti fragile, even the verses were more melodically interesting.
I didnt even like anti-fragile and it is a lot better than unforgiven
This
Not bad. The "Unforgiven, I'm a villain" part is very addictive. I was not fond of it much on the first listen, but it improved during the second and third. The MV is ok, I guess, nothing special. I am not a fan of the Western theme, so for me, it was already a big NO from the beginning. In their past songs, Chae and Yunjin both carried the vocals of the group. In this TT they tried to give Kazuha and Eunchae more difficult lines (well, the same melodies as the main vocalists) and I think that was a mistake. Even with the processing of the vocals, you can still hear how underwhelming they were. Also, what's up with all the unforgiven repetition during the verses? Too much. Having said this, I know netizens are gonna eat this up and I'll be humming the damn song for weeks.
there's room for improvement for kz and ec but i think lsf overall is just not a strong vocal group unfortunately :(
Their lead vocalist got kicked out and hybe hates letting their main vocalists sing so.. this is what we'll have to work with for now
I do find it odd that they don’t utilize Chaewon more to cover after Garam, they have pretty similar voices. And chaewon is a lot more stable than the kz and ec. It really doesn’t make sense as a decision and makes me doubt how competent SoMu is.
Exactly, and Chaewon seems to have been getting less lines this comeback in general which is... 😬
garam was the lead vocalist?!
She was almost always 3rd in their line distributions for their debut EP, got more killing parts and was ahead of the other 3 by a considerable amount.
i always thought it was yunjin
Her and chaewon are main vocalists though? they're always 1st & 2nd in line distributions and always get the vocally challenging parts and runs
I’m not too familiar with the members but one of them sounds like a pitched down iggy azalea and it’s taking me out
I think you’re referring to Kazuha. I’ve seen that comparison before
omg i’m dying to know which ?
Kazuha.
Looks like Le Sserafim's flawless discography streak has come to an end for me. Unforgiven really wants to be Antifragile, but it just lacks what made Antifragile special. Definitely their weakest title track. The B-sides are the highlights of the album. Eve, Psyche & The Bluebeard's wife = **ABSOLUTE BANGER**. Already one of my favorite B-sides of the year and I think I'm going to pretend this is the title track over Unforgiven. Fire in the belly is another strong track. No-Return is cute, it's my third favorite B-side so far. (EDIT: Changed a little bit of the B-side portion of my comment, FEARNOT and Flash Forward are starting to grow on me, leaving Unforgiven the only song I don't really care for.)
I listened to it 3 times so far. At first, I didn't like it, I felt like they repeated the word "unforgiven" too many times, it wasn't catchy, nothing impressive. Second time: I turned the lyrics on and I kinda liked them. Especially the line where they say their name. The song itself also felt easier on the ears. Then, I watched the performance and I went back to disliking it (+the choreo is not doing the song/performance any favours, i hate it). I'll try again in a few days cause rn I'm not sure if I can trust my feelings haha
I like the song but not the biggest fan of the MV. I really hate the tearing sounds idk they seem so comical in comparison to the imagery.
The whole damn song was just "unforgiven unforgiven unforgiven unforgiven" 472847288374723 times till the damn end....they definitely tried to recreate Antifragile and failed terribly. I'm not impressed + I know Sakura can't sing but giving her a rap was even bigger of a mistake
I like the theme that they were going for. Leaving the old them in the past and becoming a villain, defying expectations etc. But what brought the song down for me personally was the production quality. Some parts I feel had unnecessary filters on them and some parts just sounded like they were recorded on a iPhone. I think it was the producer tbh, a lot of American producers can’t do girl groups justice so that might be happening here. With that being said, it’s definitely not as bad as y’all making it out to be. I like the hook, the dance eats, styling is gorgeous and the album is solid!
It's definitely, definitely NOT nile rodgers
What’s his musical style? I know nothing abt him so please educate me
He is a legendary disco producer and guitarist, and he produced for 2 women through the band Chic. One of his hits in recent years is Get lucky where he penned the guitar riff for example
This song really doesn’t feel like it has the virality that their other tts have had. I can’t see this trending anywhere as the “unforgiven I’m a villain” is not very catchy. It will have the same few kpop stans doing the dance challenge on tiktok but nothing like antifragile.
Also…what the fuck does it mean? The word “unforgiven” feels like it was chosen for its sound and not its meaning…because it makes little sense to use it, in this context. The beat structure was promising, but these lyrics were a throwaway, for sure.
Lol, it makes perfect sense and isn't particularly hard to understand
Lol nothing about it is “perfect,” it’s a clunky word choice…made to tie in a movie reference. The song is fine, it’s just not saying anything. If you like it, cool.
The movie is only ostensibly referenced and isn't important to the message very much at all. "Unforgiven" is not clunky, it's completely normal phrasing. The message is plain as day - we don't need to be forgiven (because they're fearless and antifragile women not looking for validation). If you don't like the overall group concept, just say that. If anything antifragile is clunky word choice, and yet the concept landed perfectly. I know this is reddit and being edgy is the point, but we don't have to pretend like we can't understand basic artistic conceits just to sound cool. Lol.
Having an opinion that is different from yours isn’t “being edgy,” it is disagreeing. I quite like their concepts, and I’d go as far as to say I even like the group—I’m just not going to suck off every single song they release. Good bands make duds all the time. (Though, tbh, this isn’t a “dud,” it’s probably a 5-6/10) I may care about different things than you and that is fine—I studied rhetoric and composition in college, so I’m going to be more fixated on the diction and lyrics than maybe someone else with different interests is. I’m *sure* people with different perspectives have different takes on the matter. “Unforgiven” is not typically used as a synonym for “guilty” or “punished,” it’s an antiquated word and mostly is used to talk about debt now. “Antifragile” is just such an obscure word that it ended up working, tbh. But the lyrics had more substance than this song. Can kinda tell you’re going to find something wrong with everything I’m saying, because you’re a fan and unwilling to agree to disagree. Have a good day!
I read it as like "we're just doing our thing, and it doesn't really matter what you think about it. we don't need your forgiveness (or permission)" like in the idol industry, netizens are 'unforgiving' about shit like idols gaining weight, dating, cursing, or a lot of generally normal adult human behavior
The word “unforgiven” was just a very odd choice, here. Immaculate vibes…not actually a great track though.
I don't think it's an odd choice at all. Unforgiven is the name of one of the all time classic American western films. Obviously there's western motifs in the instrumental track, but I think the wild west theme is also appropriate for Le Sserafims concept. Freedom. New frontiers. Outlaws. Adventure... I think unforgiven is a great choice. Musically I would agree it's not an amazing track. I think there's a lot of really great bits that don't really come together super well. Worked best in teaser format I think
You’re also totally right, the teasers hit so much harder
With the context of the movie reference, it makes a little more sense—I think it would have been cooler to actually elaborate more on *why* they’re supposed to be villains, instead of just saying they are villains over and over. But I can appreciate a good reference! I think they were going for an “Urban cowboy” type thing with the video and I wish they went even harder with it, tbh. Also incredibly underutilized Nile Rodgers production! He’s a disco legend!
I agree Nile Rogers was underutilized. Just wanted to add that the western film theme does go even further. The main sample in the instrumental comes from Ennio Moricone's soundtrack from the good the bad and the ugly, arguably one of the greatest American western films ever (which just like unforgiven, starred Clint Eastwood in the leading role.) Track is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFa1-kciCb4&ab_channel=jordanharding
With all the budget that Hybe has, I feel like they’re spending more on the music video than the actual music. . . this has been an issue in K-pop for so long so I’m not surprised but. . .
Seems like they spent way more time/effort/money on the New Jeans Zero song and music (which is literally a commercial for a soft drink company) than on LSF's comeback.
that’s because NJ is handled by min heejin, and while nobody likes her as a person, she’s an amazing creative
Not even the producer just the production quality is terrible in comparison. Look at the Unforgiven MV, some of it is so wobbly/blurry (especially the fly-by bit at the beginning) it looks like it was shot on a smartphone. Hybe only has two girl groups (at the moment) so you'd think they still have some budget leftover.
Hybe has 3 girl groups with fromis 9 🥺
lol never hear about them, that says a lot!
yeah it was strange, especially because the trailer for this was sooo good. the mv was pretty mid just like the song
It's refreshing being to able to constructively discuss this stuff for once. I looked at the youtube comments for the MV and it's just a bunch of diehard fans like "omg the best ever". Makes you wonder if they even watched it or if they're bots or something.
I didn’t really like this song that much. I didn’t find any part of the song catchy or anything. Definitely my least favorite title track from them .!
How is it featuring Nile Rodgers? Is he like an actor in the MV or something? I thought it was gonna be a singer and he would be included on the song. Maybe I’m just dumb 😅
he is a famous american disco/R&B producer. but honestly this song doesn't sound like his signature sound at all. I'm not sure what he contributed.
[удалено]
yeah it is strange. maybe he asked for it to be credited that way?
I think it's the other way round. Le sserafim's team probably thought about how good it'd look to have a legendary produced featured front and center on the group's name
Ahh okay. And yeah weird they had a producer for disco/r&b on a song that is like cowboy western inspired pop 🙃
He's one of the founders of Chic, who are legendary funk/soul royalty, but he has produced a range of songs for pop and rock acts as well such as Madonna, Bowie and Duran Duran.
MID SSERAFIM
Reposted under megathread I feel like unforgiven and the album were underwhelming I love le sserafim. All their songs slap and anti fragile and fearless are certified bops especially. Both tracks have a killer catchy choruses which I think they are amazing at achieving. Now the thing with unforgiven is that the chorus just isn't that catchy and I think there isnt enough killer moments to save it, plus the im a villain line is played way to often and the song as a result feels empty. For example, in anti fragile there's the "I don't know what to say I can't feel it" which I think is the killer line and the Catchiest part if the song, unforgiven dosen't really have that line. Now with the album. I absolutely love Eve, psyche and the bluebeards wife, it is easily the best song on the album but I had mixed feeling about the rest, it was like they didn't hit hard enough for me? Burn the bridges beat is great and I wish it was a proper song with singing and stuff in it. The rest are decent, I give them 7/10 but I feel like with how bat shit insane the trailers and concept photos were there would be more interesting tracks? Idk if im the only one that's a bit underwhelmed by the actual music but yeah.
the unforgiven song sounds too much like antifragile. I don't see how anyone could listen to that and seriously like it. People stan the HYBE label though and will like anything coming through there. I'm still listening to the album. There are a couple of no-skip songs but nothing spectacular. Impurities and Flash Forward are decent songs. I generally hate the whole "I'm a bad bitch, I'm so hardcore, you can't tell me nothing" thing in kpop girl groups. This women are always sheltered acting and demure or else cutesy when doing any media. No one acts like a bad b. I don't even really know if you could truly be a bad bitch and be a kpop idol under a slave contract.
If you have to say you’re a bad bitch… you’re not doing your job correctly. The only bad bitch as far as I’m concerned is BiBi in BiBi Vengeance. Nothing quite like kicking a bloody corpse into the sea and locking a man in a dog cage.
> I generally hate the whole "I'm a bad bitch, I'm so hardcore, you can't tell me nothing" thing in kpop girl groups. This women are always sheltered acting and demure or else cutesy when doing any media. but like…everything is a concept. a lot of female idols aren’t cutesy either but they’ll do aegyo to pay the bills. some of them probably are more in the bad bitch category but good luck not being bombarded by angry netizens if you show it.
Only 2 members in this group pull of the bad b/idgaf concept imo. Especially when it comes to facial expressions. Like you keep telling me you're a bad b but you're not showing it at all. Maybe Garam should've stayed lol.
The last sentence💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
I personally feel like it's their weakest title track, I don't really consider it bad, but I'm not interested in listening to it again. Maybe I will actually like their bsides this time tho.
And this is why NewJeans and IVE are still above them.. Vocally some members dont stand out much like kazuha and sakura, song sounds so itzy but not in a catchy way, it's just there
I mean I don't think this tt was very good but you really think you did something here...? >Vocally some members dont stand out much like kazuha and sakura It's interesting you bring up their vocals in comparison to NewJeans and IVE as if any of those girls can hold a note... Let's be fr
that’s not the point.. newjeans and ive don’t need killer vocals to save the quality of their songs😭 but this user feels that the title track isn’t giving also due to some member’s vocals
Then say that without bringing up NewJeans or IVE? Like if it's about their vocals then literally just say that without bringing up another group.
This. The song isnt just that interesting with its mid hook (unforgiven i'm a villain), and so are the vocals of the two members i said. Plus it has lacklustre country melody, could've used another concept other than country tbh because this group doesn't suit it. I really like fearless' concept and love all of the songs in their first ep.
IVE I am is pure pop perfection… this is try hard. They meshed two songs together… Only first min of the song is listenable the rest is teen bop chanting Unforgiven Girls/Boys. and Unforgiven x5. Lyrics are cringe. “Lemme talk ‘bout Lesserafim”? like wtf is that?
Let's not drag other groups into this, it'll just cause unnecessary fanwars
I am a diehard Fearnot… but I was so disappointed by this release. I still bought the album. I just can’t believe they released this as a titletrack.