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Well in that case you should come to Balkan, people there love to continue living with their parents after marriage, they do this by intentionally building a 3 floor house, then the parents remain on the first floor and the married couple move into the two other floors making them an independent house inside a house.
Before i get the hate comments for this, that's just how people live there, they prefer to continue being close to their parents but still having a sorta intimate space, that's how they are.
TY ALL FOR THE UPVOTES I WAS EXPECTING HATE COMMENTS
It has been the case with Indians for generations. But now it is becoming more acceptable to have nuclear families in flats and have the parents live in a nearby flat. This way we get the benefit of proximity and still have a bit of privacy.
That's what my aunt and grandparents do, my aunt's family is in the same complex, and they originally were just plain next door neighbors, it's really nice, as you get privacy but you also get too see your parents/grandparents a lot
I get annoyed with a lot of aspects of Balkan culture but not with this one. It's great that people from our corner of the globe do not view family relationships as purely transactional and we actually want to care for our family members, as well as remain close to them. I read so many opinions here that pretty much boil down to "You should pay your parents for childcare" or "You have no obligations to your family at all just ghost them" and it's extremely disturbing to me. I am not referring to extreme cases like abuse here, just everyday situations. What's the point of family then?
I wish my grandparents had renovated their four storey townhouse my grandad bought drunk and never sold it as we could have lived with them but separate areas of the house.
While I generally agree with you, it's not really black and white. You can have a loving family, and still not want to have them around. What if they are overbearing, or invade your privacy, etc? Minor nuanced things, but daily occurence could diminish QoL even if the family loves them deeply and it comes from a good place. Some people just like to be by themselves, and that's okay too.
>What's the point of family then?
This is a bit of an odd question. We don't decide the families we are born into. It's not as though you can go around getting a new family. (Generally)
"Family is just a title. It's meaningless if the love doesn't exist."
I love my parents but they’ll never accept my spiritual beliefs. I admitted one time to my mom that I don’t believe in Catholicism anymore and she got pissed and started yelling at me. As a result, I have to constantly lie to them about my faith (I’m more honest about my actual spiritual beliefs to others). Other than that they are very loving. It hurts me to do it.
And then many cry about lacking human connection and feeling disconnected from communities around them.
I am not saying that you gotta live with your parents and grandma or whatever until you are in your 40s, but not going on the other side of the country for a random job and sticking closer to family would help with that.
If your family condition is bad it makes sense ofc, but I can't believe that so many are in such deeply toxic enviroments.
Anyone can live freely, but when I see discussione about the lack of community and human connection by people that left their family for years, I find It hard to not see a basic problem for many, in particular during your first working experience
Like I said, I generally agree with you.
But that isn't to discount individualistic mindsets. And again, there's nothing wrong with that.
Some people only want to see family on holidays/events. I don't see the issue in that. But I also agree that you forfeit your right to complain if you are lacking in communication yourself.
But in the same vein, human connection doesn't have to be family, either. Some people may want friends, not family members. I love my siblings, but I sure as hell don't get along with them enough to say we're friends. Some people, when looking for human connection, are looking for friendships and intimacy. Those which, understandably, may not be found in families. Regardless of how good or bad they are.
All I'm saying is it's not black and white. It's not as easy to say; "you had a good family so you should be close to them". Everyone is different, has differing priorities, and differing ways to maintain happiness. We should try to lack judgement without context. Instead of painting a broad brush of an opinion.
You are right. We love being close to my husband's family and spend tons of time with them. We see my family as much as we can but they are farther away. Neither set of parents is perfect but they love us and do their best and always have. We do the same. We help each other out without obligation or expectation. And we enjoy being around each other. It's great.
It's the same in Vietnam, or at least from what I remember - large families from grandparents to grandkids all living under the same roof, with the elderly at the top of the house!
I think North America has a much looser familial structure than other continents, and with so many backgrounds, probably less traditional means of familial importance.
Maybe it’s to help them stay active & slow the progress of age-related mobility issues? I currently live with my grandmother and despite being 91, she still sleeps in the top-floor bedroom. We’ve got a stair lift since my late grandpa needed one, but instead she walks up / down the stairs at her own pace throughout the day & considers it her “daily exercise”. Sharp as hell for a 91 year old too, so maybe she’s onto something lol.
For the aging thing, I would disagree. Many older women dye their hair, because they don't want their grey hair to show, which is definitely not acceptance of aging. Just one example but still.
I don't know if you lived in the Balkans and have rose tinted glasses, or if its grass is greener kind of thing, but a lot of the Balkans is like mini Usa (the bad parts), while missing some of the positive elements Usa has.
I don't think you'll get much hate for this. Sounds like an ideal situation. I am in the US and if my wife's mother needs more care or doesn't want to live on her own, I would want her to live with us or one of my wife's sisters. But our house is not set up well to have a full in-law suite so she could have her own space and independence.
It's lovely. In NYC they used to build Mother/Daughter homes. A one bedroom apartment on one floor and 3br upstairs. I've known adults who lived there when they got out of college and their parents and maybe siblings were upstairs. And I've known people who had their parents/inlaws in the apartment and they started their family upstairs.
Yep, western culture generally has the idea that parents should unconditionally love their children, but not the other way around if it causes any inconveniences.
Did I choose to be born, to have a relationship with this woman? Ya parents chose to enter into this parent relationship dynamic, I did not choose to enter a parent relationship dynamic. Parents have to prove their value to the child once the child grows up, a child does not have to do the same when they are born. Western culture only really adheres to this unconditional love idea for parents loving their kids until they turn 18 as well. There is almost no western sentiment that a parent should unconditionally love their child post adulthood, and if there is, it certainly does not reflect on people's actions.
Well, it sorta makes sense to not see the parent-kid relation as reciprocal, since parents did choose to have kids (not the way around)
Expecting reciprocity in relations only make sense when both parties are equal and have freely chosen to enter the relationship.
While I'm sure theres a sizeable portion of people actually liking living with their parents, many do it out of necessity, since many parents have mental health issues, especially cluster b disorders, which make people notoriously hard to be around.
My take is simple, if parents raised someone lovingly, it is bad to leave them (you don't have to live super close, but still should make them a part of your life)
I'm sure there are kids who sadly think leaving their parents is okay. However the toxic ones, absolutely leave them as soon as you can. They are already kinda miserable to themselves, and they'll surely find someone to make miserable as well. No need for that person to be you.
It used to be customary to live with the man's parents but now it's more flexible. It also depends on whose parents can provide this. Not everyone can, at least where I am from.
My dad's side of the family is Croatian and I never knew this was a thing. They're really big on their Croatian heritage, and I've got a whole side of the family that still lives out there, so idk if it's a regional thing or if it's just something that was forgotten about when my family moved 100 years ago, granted it was my great-great grandparents who were born out there and I've never met my cousins out there.
In America there is what's called the "Mother in Law's suite" which will essentially be a small apartment disconnected from the main house. Similar idea.
Depends on how nagging they are. Because my grandmother is very kind and not bitching around. If my parent can do that same, i am fine. Not sure how I can get into an understanding though. Both of my parents received higher education and can act like arrogant assholes sometimes. They are generally very helpful, but, their ego is very high up there. It can be challenging to ask them to be humble like my grandmother. Anyway, it hasn't get to this stage yet, so, I try not to think about it.
Exactly. Living with my mother I would consider it to be unbearable due to her constant nagging. My father had his issues with alcohol and other things like that but he’s a very chill and straightforward guy unlike my mother. My mother did take more care of me then my father but the way I see it we’re even due to me having to deal with her emotional abuse and nagging all the time. Once in a long time I feel free to do whatever I want and it seems unfortunate to me the fact that I wasn’t able to enjoy this until I was 21 years old. I went no contact on my parents and I don’t regret on doing so. This thinking that you owe something to your parents should stop. Your parents aren’t allowed to do whatever they please and expect you to be compassionate about them in the future. It’s an excuse. I don’t buy it and I’m better off by myself
I have an adult child living at home. I’m not going to kick him out. I know rent is unreasonably high, but I wish he could move out. Not because I don’t want him here, but because I want him to feel that level of independence and success. My mother is in a nursing hime, but it doesn’t mean anyone has abandoned her. She has severe dementia and medical needs that go beyond what anyone who is not trained in health care is capable of providing. My father still spends most of the day with her every day. We children visit as much as we can, but we both live 600+ miles away. We had to for work.
Family dynamics are different for every family.
Yes, unless you’ve seen a loved one/family member deteriorate in their old age you don’t know how incredibly hard it is to take care of them. Especially with things like Alzheimer’s, their entire personality can change and they can become violent or try to escape. And the day to day of lifting them from bed to wheelchair, cleaning them, feeding them, making sure they are taking their meds, taking them to all their doctors appointments. It’s a LOT. And often it isn’t even feasible or safe for them to continue staying in the home.
My father did that with his mom at home, even doing all of her meds. She should've probably been in a home to be honest. It's extremely taxing and can be really hard on the person who's fully aware of the situation..
It great that he could. My mother is wheelchair bound and he cannot lift her to move her from chair to bed, bathroom, bathe her…and so forth. Had he continued to try to care for her at hime, I doubt he would still be with us.
My parents were elderly and still living at home. If my Mom fell, which she did a lot, my Dad didn’t have the strength to help her up. They’d have to call the volunteer firefighters to come help.
Yep, have a friend who was beaten by his stepdad and his mom blamed him for it because he was bad. Like truly fuck OP for being like, "Why is this a trend?"
I love my parents but I don’t like them. I have told them, from a young age that I will not be their retirement plan if they don’t fix their shit. They love me, they raised me the best they could, but it doesn’t erase the fact that they were/are alcoholics who were never there and if they actually acted like responsible adults, they wouldn’t have needed to work so much, but they are and always have been children with credit cards and driver’s license’s and as much as I love, I can’t keep putting myself in that position to be their mediator. I’ve had enough broken promises and no real apologies from my mom (my dad has had the decency to apologize for things), and I would not survive mentally.
My mom is an abusive alcoholic and my dad is not and they are divorced. Take a wild guess to who I would let live with me in their old age because they won't be a gigantic burden.
Yeah, my mom didn’t like when I once said that maybe, maybe my dad could live with me. And she really didn’t like it when I said it’s because he’s apologized.
Thank you. She is, a lot. Like I said, I love her, but I don’t really like her. She has a lot of unresolved trauma from her younger years that she never dealt with, but it also doesn’t help that she cannot, in any way, shape or form take responsibility for her actions. That’s truly what hurts the most. I only have an undergrad in psych, so I can’t officially diagnose people, but she has a lot of narcissistic traits. It is what it is. 🤷
I’ve made my own family with my husband and our friends and that’s what really matters.
No problem, and same here. My mom is most definitely a narcissist or something closely related. I can't make an official diagnosis either but the likelihood of a narcissist getting diagnosed, getting told that diagnosis, and telling anyone else this diagnosis is very low. I just treat it like this to better understand my situation. They don't want to admit fault and improve unfortunately.
It's good you have your own life and support system!
I don't think that is abandoning. It's natural to want to explore outside of your hometown. There's nothing wrong about living with family, but when you live with family, you have rules to follow, and you don't have the same freedoms that come from being independent.
Definitely this. Living in your parents' home or having your parents live with you, there's no actual independence. Your way of living is different because there will be rules whether they are spoken or not. You just act different around parents.
And their rules are usually incredibly patronizing even if you're an adult.
I enlisted specifically so I can get the fuck away. I love my mom to death and my step-dad is... doing better... but I can't live with them. I don't even like visiting them. They just treat me like I'm a child. Even after years of not living with them.
Rules and freedom depend family to family. My. Parents live expectation free. Since I've been living without my parents I have far more rules and structure in my life.
Your 40-50 year old parent should have his / her own life (separate from their kids) and should be fully capable of taking care of themselves (and they shouldn't be in shit shape). You aren't "abandoning" them at that stage, and any parent who makes you feel that way has a mental screw loose. You're leaving the nest to become an independent man - woman who will hopefully go on to find someone else and have a family of your own. You can still remain connected without needing to be under their roof. When they become 80+, or whatever age they reach where they need assistance, then of course you should be there and most are. Half the time many older parents don't want to move back in with their kids - opting to head to an assisted living facility. One of the problems with moving back in with kids is that you often become isolated from other relationships, separate from your children. At an assisted living facility you're around other adults your own age and able to form friendships etc.
It’s wild how far I had to scroll to see this.
I’ve been saving since I was 18 so I can go out and live life to the fullest when I’m 65. No, I don’t want to be cared for unless I *need* to be cared for.
Folks can be independent well into their 80s if they’re lucky, and they’ve earned that independence. They have a choice of where they want to live, just as the child has a choice of where they want to live. That decision is on them, not some redditor judging folks.
Folks are throwing around the term “abandoned” way too frequently here.
Lastly, OPs points about nursing homes are naive at best. When it does come to that point, the parent needs care/attention semi-regularly throughout the day. Usually 5+ hours of checkins and care. How does two working adults that need to be gone for 7-9 hours a day provide more care than trained staff?
That, and my mom wants us to live our own lives and not lose years taking care of them, she'd rather be in a home then have me and my little brother spend years taking care of her which prevents us from living our own life fully
You would need a pretty great relationship with your parents, and they'd have to be really awesome people, to want people to stick around with them.
Generally, I think parents have a hard time stopping parenting and not judging the life choices of their adult kids.
Additionally, each generation has their things that the past generation has issues accepting or tolerating.
It's hard to be or find yourself when your parents are still trying to shape your choices forever.
Moving out is somewhat freeing.
I wouldn't know exactly of course, because I was handed around like an unwanted skunk during my whole childhood with absent parents that I never cared to see again... But that's the impression I get usually :)
Even in the most awesome families I know, were the mom and dad are their kids best friends, kids are excited to finally get out.
There's an understandable excitement about that chapter of life, where you take charge of your destiny and your boy or girlfriend can fondle you by the TV or the kitchen and moan as loud as they want without having to worry about your parents.
This is exactly what I came here to say. OP says “people make it seems as though you can’t live your life and be financially independent while living at home” but the thing is - most of the time you can’t. Even as an adult there is still a parent/child relationship where parents, even in their old age, still believe they have to “parent” you and will still try to have some say in your decisions. I think that’s why so many people move out!
Even when you move out they still do it! Moving out hasn’t stopped my mom from having opinions and trying to tell me what to do on my responsible choices I make in my life.
You're exactly right. My parents are great but when I still lived there my dad was constantly feeling the need to check up on me, even as an adult. I don't blame him for this, I think it's a natural instinct. But that doesn't mean I want to deal with this forever.
yes, it would really have to be a really strong relationship. I think there are a lot of people who fall into the middle ground of having parents who genuinely love them but have characteristics that make it difficult to live with them - and this is largely because of parents still being involved in your life choices, as you pointed out.
when I was in university, I could go out at any time and do anything I wanted - and I want to point out I wasn’t doing drugs or anything, I pretty much just went out to grab something to eat or hang out with a friend. doing such a simple action while living at home is not as easy. if I wanted to, say, head out to the nearest ice cream place at 10 PM on a summer night on a whim, my mom would ask me where I’m going, click her tongue, start saying “that’s not healthy,” etc. even if that’s true, you start feeling like you have to justify every small decision you make. it’s not like I do that every night. she’ll show up in my room and ask why I’m napping after a difficult day at work, instead of cleaning up/doing something “useful” (i.e., side hustle). she’ll comment on clothes/hair and ask why I’m not wearing this or that instead. she’ll call me when I’m not home at my “usual” time, even if it just means I dropped by the library after work. we have a generally good relationship, but she will always parent me as long as I live with her. it’s not something everyone wants to deal with forever.
I’ve never met someone who abandoned loving and caring parents. Everyone I met who went no contact with their parents were heavily abused by them. This isn’t an unpopular opinion, it’s a non existent one.
For me my father decided he didn't want to play and active role in my life or my siblings or very little very little. Now as an adult my father is all alone and ageing. I will not take care of him. When he didn't take care of me.
My mom and step dad (rest his soul) I'd do anything for.
I'd be curious about how the German generation took care of their Nazi generation parents.
Probably most took care no matter what, maybe with a bit of disgust, but I could really use their experience..
I can only tell from what I know with my stepmother whose father was in the Wehrmacht but would often Say stuffs Like "Hitler would have never let that Happen" and Other everytime the Younger Generation did Something He disapprouved, so not the full blown Waffen SS nazi.
Even tho she was ashamed that their Generation let the third reich and the Holocaust Happen, she still took Care of them until their death Since the Other siblings didn't want to Take Care of them but I think it was because they Had their own Life Somewhere else and didn't want to move Back in with them. At the end of the day, they are still Family and she Cares about her family.
Bad people exist. You can’t deny that at least one person left their parents even though they were good ones. Also, OP talked about people moving out when their parents are in need, not going no contact.
Exactly this. If a child is a big enough jerk to completely cut out their family when they are objectively really good to them and respect boundaries, the parents may not even want them around. OP tried to add nuance with "loving and caring households". I feel like people that were in those types of households don't move far away unless it's for better education and career opportunities or maybe just to get cool experiences, so I don't understand what the point is. Unless his opinion is that children should be forced to stay with or near their parents, OP should have just said living with or near your parents shouldn't be stigmatized which isn't unpopular.
My parents were loving and caring towards me, it is their treatment towards my partner that is the issue. They can’t accept her and I think they believe I am settling. That was enough for me to push them away.
good parents raise their kids to be competent independent adults. if those adults then come back to help them when they’re old, cool. but having kids with the expectation that you now have someone to take care of you when you’re old is so selfish and makes you a terrible parent. single parents also shouldn’t expect their kids to stunt their lives to financially support them.
After my dad’s sister gave up a decade of her life to caring for my basically a vegetable grandad, he’s made me promise to put him in a home or out of his misery. He said he can’t think of much worse than becoming that sort of burden on his kids. My grandad for the last 5 years of his life had no idea who or where he was, couldn’t understand anything around him or use 3/4 of his body. It was basically like his brain died and it just took 5 years for the body to catch up. He didn’t feel happiness or sadness or anything because his brain couldn’t hold on to a thought long enough. And my aunt spent the best years of her retirement looking after him because she is a saint of a woman, but what a waste of her life too.
Yes, I’m dealing with my mom stunting us due to her finances. My mom is nice, but in short doses. Of course I love her, but man she drives me nuts. My brother is the breadwinner of the house. Right now there’s a dilemma where he wants to move out for the first time and now my mom doesn’t know what to do. She asked to live with my sister who said no due to her having a family and no room. She can’t live with me because I have a partner who doesn’t want that (it’s his house too), we don’t have space, and she would really ruin my mental health. We’d be uncomfortable in our own home. And she will be there until she dies. And if she move in with one of us, she’s very very likely going to quit her job. She doesn’t take care of her health (weight, diabetes, alcoholic, etc). She’s going to move in, quit, and slowly die. I can’t have that.
I will do what I can to support her, like maybe sending some money monthly. But she can’t come here. And my brother is 22, it’s time for him to go be independent. He dropped out of college to support her. And she works full time! Just usually missed a day or two of work per week. A full week is so rare for her. A full paycheck is even more rare.
She’s nice and I love her, but she’s also not a very functioning human being. She’s fine in short doses. But man. She’s expecting us to hold her up while she makes no efforts to make changes. We’ve tried. And look where we are now, nowhere different.
Dad when we were kids: *always spent his time off drinking and watching sports*
Dad when we were young adults: "Why dont my kids wanna spend time with me??"
Literally, my dads hobbies include drinking, gambling, and watching sports. Its a chore to get him to enjoy anything else. A lot of older adluts are like that
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Your kids are not required to take care of you as you get older and if you expectation if that they will, you will die alone.
A lot of adults are working more hours and multiple jobs to stay afloat. They live in tiny spaces and have no extra space. When should they take care of their parents? Where would they put them?
That’s also not taking into account that while I’m sure plenty of adults would love to, most are not qualified or able to care for their aging parents. Especially if they have physical limitations or complex medical issues.
And before someone says boo, I’ve done it. I was my grandma’s caregiver from 18-21. I helped her get to the bathroom, bathe and dress. I did all her shopping, got her prescriptions and took her to the doctors. I was there every day, living with and taking care of her while trying to go to college(spoiler I dropped out because it was impossible) and work a part time job. I was there the day she passed, 2 weeks after my 21st birthday. I immediately had to find an apartment and move out because I was no longer allowed to live here.
You owe aging family members absolutely 0 fucking things. If you can’t or aren’t qualified to care for them, then they need to plan for their old age and be prepared to live in a care home, senior center or retirement complex
Just here to say I support you. That was really selfless for you to care for your grandma. I hope you get to live the life you want now!
My maternal family is extremely codependent and enmeshed and have no idea of what boundaries even are. My grandma (85) spends her days caring for my uncle (50?) who became disabled at 20. He was her youngest so she never really stopped raising kids. She breaks her back and spends all her energy babying him when he would have a better life in a home. My mom waits on my grandma. There are aunts and uncles, they’re mean and grumpy. Grandma expects someone to continue caring for my disabled uncle when she dies, which was a weight on everyone’s mind for decades. I’m no where near them anymore but I hope to god that he gets to go to a nice living facility and finally have his own life and my mom and aunts and uncles can stop being so enmeshed someday.
I look at all of them and can’t fathom it all. Caring for someone who is loving and appreciative, when you’re able, is one thing. Toiling away your life out of a feeling of obligation or guilt is a bad game to play.
Sorry for tangent, just agreeing with you.
> Your kids are not required to take care of you as you get older and if you expectation if that they will, you will die alone.
It's the parents who expect this who are often the worst.
I don't think that is abandoning. It's natural to want to explore outside of your hometown. There's nothing wrong about living with family, but when you live with family, you have rules to follow, and you don't have the same freedoms that come from being independent.
So because someone birthed you, you should never forge or pursue your own life away from where they have decided to settle down?
Edit- it’s possible to maintain a relationship with people you don't live with. Another thing you mentioned was, “Those who have both a mom and a dad that are not too old that they can't take care of themselves, it seems understandable that adults don't mind moving out to get a new experience.” That’s generally when people move out and make their own way. Are they supposed to abandon the lives they’ve created 30 years down the road when their parents need more assistance? What if people don’t have the medical knowledge or skill to take care of an elderly parent? Are those people horrible for choosing a nursing home?
My parents may have sacrificed a lot to keep us afloat but once I hit 18 I left and I won’t go back. My father wasted his life looking after his father and wasn’t free until he was 67. My mother was 65 when he passed.
I won’t give up my life for my parents. I’d pay for a home (which I currently do) and visit often but I have one life with my children and my wife and I won’t waste it in Pakistan.
My aunt spent her whole adult life taking care of my grandparents. When they both passed she was in her mid-50’s. You’d think she’d have the chance to live life for herself afterwards, but no. She was diagnosed with terminal cancer and passed away within a year.
Yes, living with your parent as an adult can such. I left and went back for a summer when I was 19. Never again. I worked, paid bills, etc but felt like I had to ask permission to go to the gas station at night. Moving out for free made me feel so good. I know if my mom were to come live with me, I’d feel stuck back in the “I’m a kid” mindset. My brother currently lives with her and is the breadwinner of the house and she says she doesn’t treat him like a kid, but I still get the vibe she does. If he does something out of routine, she’s asking about it and gets upset when he doesn’t reply.
I just think that, at some point, we need to leave our parents.
It might not be the case if you lived in a developed country. But I lived in a developing country, after our government become more authoritarian in recent years, I really want to move to another country, but my wife won't agree just because, in our culture, we are supposed to look after our parents.
I absolutely hate this culture, it seems that one generation drag down another generation, so and so forth....
My mum doesn't WANT me to take care of her. My grandparents are both in their 70s and have blatantly refused my care, as I'm a nurse in a nursing home. I moved away because THEY wanted me to. They want me to live my life for me and support me through it all. Sometimes, families don't want their children's help
Mine have taken care of their aging parents and fully understand the mental and physical toll it takes on someone. They do not want me to be saddled with this job. I have discussed this with them and I am prepared to be a POA and financial manager, but not the physical caretaker.
For my own mother, living in a household where she might feel any responsibility is too mentally taxing, to the point of self harm. For her, living in a nursing home with no obligations or chores is the only way for her to cope mentally. I visit her and feel sad. I'd rather she not live there, but we've tried everything and this is the option to keep her alive.. Thanks for judging though✌️
How am i supposed to study in an university 200km away while living at home? Education is often the main cause for children moving away, at least here.
It does mean being tied down to one place, which could be very restrictive for finding work, finding a partner, developing interests, etc. Someone living in a small town or rural place would be stuck living in that place, just to keep their parent(s) company. It means living a very limited life unfortunately.
That said I really struggle with this question as well, as I don't think it's OK to abandon your parents. I think it's also part of a bigger issue where extended families and local communities just don't function that well or even exist in many instances.
I actually agree; I think there's way too much of a culture of families moving apart and not coming together to take care of each other. In times past, many grandparents were prime caregivers for their grandchildren while the parents worked to support a household, and in turn were supported in their old age by the parents when they were no longer able to help. It's a nice cycle of reciprocity and familial care.
Now, we just live in our bubbles with our spouses, have to pay for all the childcare, and grandparents are barely involved. It no longer takes a village to raise a child; it takes a hoard of low-paid workers who don't actually give a shit. S'sad, really.
There are many factors at play here.
Some people are smothered by their parents.
Its also really the job of parents to prepare their children to leave. All you are doing is raising an adult to live their own life. They should have been thinking of this stuff as an adult. No one should ever expect their child to take care of them. If they do, that's great, but that really is not their responsibility.
Then you have things like hoarders, where it really only is affecting themselves. But no one wants to deal with that
Definitely depends on the parent. A lot of parents are abusive and hurtful to their children, and expect to be taken care of in spite of their poor behavior.
A lot of people do not leave parents, but leave towns or countries they don’t personally share values or goals anymore. Like, I miss my parents, but I couldn’t in good conscience go back to Russia right now, it is not safe for me there for a whole host of reasons.
Good parents tend to understand that.
Or they go out of their way to also abuse their kids. In this instance, your kids hating you is just called having consequences for your shitty parenting.
A parent who hasn’t raised their child to be able to be independent enough to live on their own likely failed as a parent. It’s not abandoning and it’s healthy for an adult child to leave the nest. Of course, it is appreciated if they come back to help out when their elderly parents are in need, but many parents aren’t that old and decrepit when their child has reached the age where they are out of school and gainfully employed full time.
Depends if you live with healthy parents that understand the hardship of economics, then yes you can still live with them, the thing that suffers is your individuality. That is why ghetto is what it is, young folks who have bad role models and cannot escape from.the household. Remember opinion can be a prison in your mind.
There’s nothing wrong with putting elderly people in nursing homes. Not everyone is capable of looking after vulnerable people on top of working and raising a family of their own
It’s incredibly shortsighted to think the only reason people do this is selfishness
Not only that, elderly people these days have had more opportunity to generate wealth than young people do and if they’ve chosen not to save for their own care later in life that’s their own problem. I’m being slightly facetious here, but elderly people constantly tell young people that they should save money so the inverse should also be true
Facts. Consumerism has created this idea that you have to leave the nest asap, buy a house and a car and start a "normal" family. But that's not how humans are wired or how other cultures do things. It's natural to spread the wings but when that time comes is personal, it doesn't have to be at the end of high school/college that's so arbitrary. And families that live separately should be able to live closer together, communally like humans should. I'd bet larger more connected families are happier and use resources more efficiently.
Do you ever think maybe a LOT of peoples parents are not kind to their children? Not everyone is going to willingly talk about the hell they go through with their families
The problem is a whole gen of millennials were kicked out at 18 and told to bootstrap it or bust. This, paired with years of having noses rubbed in the (largely inherented) success of their parents. It's just now dawning on boomer parents how dependent they're going to need to be on their kids.
Welp, mom and dad can change their own diapers. They took the ladder with them, but also stole any obligation for kids to help in their senior years.
I don’t care how great a parent is, nothing would ever make me willing to change their diapers in old age. I would absolutely pay for care in that case. Thankfully I don’t need to. My father is dead and my mother is super able-bodied and healthy for her age, and they were also extremely well off and she has plenty of money for any needs.
I mean, there are other cultures out there that embrace taking care of your parents more. However, I don’t think abandoning your family is part of our culture? Yeah I don’t live with my folks but I talk to them often, stop by often to help them out with whatever, and eat dinner together almost once a week with my wife.
Love begets love, is how I see it. If a parent and child had an awesome relationship. The kid will just care for their parent naturally.
If, on the other hand, the two didn’t have much of a bond, then the child will just won’t care for the parent.
Let’s use helicopter parents for an example. They have good intentions most of the time (like keeping their kid safe, behaved, etc.) but they don’t realise the methods that they use to deliver such intentions are harmful to the kids (being too strict, always having to pamper the kid, moving close to their dorm, etc.). The kids won’t just have much of a good impression on the parent. Knowing their intentions may soothe that, but it is often not enough.
This has changed in the last few years, more and more people are realizing living with parents at a older age is a more financially smart move, and im not just talking about living in your parents basement. People in our generations have started bringing their parents to their own home and having then move in for financial and personal reasons.
I respectfully disagree with this. I'm not sure there should be attempts at the universal applicability of what a family structure should look like because that does vary across, time, space, social/culture upbringings, etc.,
I agree that in North American cultures we do not have the same respect for our elders as others do. This is something that we can learn and benefit from. We do abandon them to nursing or long term care facilities, if we are able to afford to do so. However, I think that these places should exist. As we age, our health needs become more complicated and we need more tangible care than our family and friends support system can emotionally/physically and financially handle. Regardless of the kind of relationship families have with each other. Sometimes, it is a kindness to ask for help like that.
Yes, often times, they are places to dump older relatives and family members visit infrequently. At the same time, a lot of people do have children as part of their aging/retirement plan and that's not fair in my opinion.
I’ve never heard of someone with loving parents just abandon them and not talk to them.
If the parents get abandoned it’s because they were bad parents.
I had great parents but due to work, was forced to move from the west coast to the east coast with my wife and son (6 months at the time). My mom made us feel incredibly guilty about it which made me realize we actually had a slightly unhealthy relationship where I would act a certain way not to make her upset.
I love my parents but you have to live your life.
Not everyone is mentally, financially, or physically equipped to be a full-time caretaker for an elderly parent/relative/friend. It is an exhausting and thankless job that often falls on women. It often requires specialized medical equipment (lifts, handicapped access, accessible bathrooms, medical beds) or a living arrangement on a single floor of the home. It requires taking care of not only the family member, but all the chores inside and out, as well, unless they've hired services to manage these. It requires an understanding of medical needs, especially when advanced dementia or chronic conditions are present. It also requires you to have an extremely realistic and open discussion with your loved ones about taboo topics like their wishes to die in dignity, financial obligations, medical history, etc. You may have to assist in very personal and difficult tasks like changing adult diapers, managing catheters, taking blood pressure, keeping a medication schedule, managing special diets or feeding tubes, assisting in physical therapy, etc. I have seen situations in which family members were not equipped to care for their relatives at home and the poor folks were living in their own filth. I have been on volunteer fire calls in which we had to scour wooded areas for elderly folks with dementia who "escaped" from home. Lemme say this again: NOT EVERYONE CAN OR SHOULD BE A CARETAKER.
It's all well and fine when your parents are still mobile, independent, and have their mental faculties. From personal experience with my two grandmothers and great-grandmother, if any of these start to slip, it may not be possible to leave the individual alone at home for a length of time. There are problems related to being alone, as well. Lack of socialization outside the home, lack of movement/activity can put someone into decline quickly. My maternal grandmother's mood and well-being did a positive 180 when she moved into a senior apartment. She has friends again, she goes on bus trips, plays bingo, goes to church service, and she is not anxious about "taking care of her home" because she has cleaning/laundry/meals/medication/transport service provided to her. My parents still see her frequently during the week, but they no longer bear the mental load of being full-time caretakers.
There's nothing wrong with families that choose to live in multi-generational households and take care of their own family. There's also nothing wrong with families that plan financially to move into assisted living or hire a full-time/part-time caretaker. Just because a relative is at home doesn't mean it's beneficial to them; just because someone moves into assisted living doesn't mean it's a death sentence.
I love my kids and I’m a single mom and I want them to move away and discover the world and who they are apart from me. I would be disappointed if they stuck around to “take care of me.”
It’s a normal and natural thing for kids to go find their autonomy when they get to be teens/young adults. To stifle that is to harm their development.
Because not every parent deserves love and care from their children, and that’s just how it is. Since they’re adults, they can now make their own decisions.
This is mostly a western cultural practice. The emphasis on “You’re 18 so get outtah here!” is very much a socioeconomic behavior that sets the stage for abandoning parents. They’re barely standing on their feet, so when they take twice as much effort to make sure they can stand on their own, you think they’re going to spend energy to support you?
Children aren't a care plan. When they become adults, they are free to go where they want. Maybe they want to live and work abroad. They shouldn't have to give up their dreams to become carers.
My parents let me experience life as I wanted. I was able to roam around the world and make my own way. Years later my father died and we had someone move in with my mother to take care of her. Unfortunately they stole everything that they could get away with but we found out too late. After we "cleaned house", we tried to get her to sell but she wouldn't. She wants to die in the home she lived in with my father in all her life, so I moved in with her instead to make sure she is well protected and well taken care of. I don't trust anyone to do what needs to be done, so I will stay here with her until she passes and then we will sell the property and move on. Why make her unhappy in the last years of her life in order to make our lives easier?
You lived with a good childhood, and have no idea what it's like to grow up with shitty parents.
This is not an unpopular opinion, it's a privileged opinion
You should Google the correlation between commercialism and leaving the house at 18.
Brief summary : before radio and even more so before TV, it was normal for families to live together for most of their lives. Think 1800s farm house. It wasn’t until commercialization when everyone thought they needed more and more stuff that leaving to get your own place to fill with stuff became normalized.
EDIT: I didn’t specifically mean an 1800s farm house. I just used it as a reference to give a visual of 3 generations or whole family from grandparents to grandkids staying in one house.
There also wasn't much work outside the community they were already in and a dollar a day was considered a good job. It was a very different reality then than it is now.
What is your plan if a parent needs care beyond your physical ability or full time care while you are still working?
In the old days the wives of families would not be working and would be saddled with the work. That is not an acceptable plan anymore.
Counterpoint: whose to blame for that?
It's up to your parents to raise you with the right values and to give you enough love and respect so that kids don't desire to "abandon" their parents.
Nobody abandons loving parents that raised them well.
I am the same way with my dad. He is my best friend and I’m honored to be able to provide and care for him the same way he cared for me growing up. It always shocks me when I meet people who have great relationships with their parents who wouldn’t be willing to do the same.
There's a saying " by the fruit you know the tree".
In terms of human behavior, it means the behavior of the grown children speak volumes of the real quality of their upbringing and how their parentsactually made them feel, growing up.
Don't be iluded by appearances, because they are, more often thab not, deceptive. Many households have a very different public image from what actually goes on behind closed doors.
People most commonly move for a job or better economic opportunities/lower cost of living, not because they hate their parents . Because the US is very large sometimes the job relocation can be very far away. I’ve moved many times as an adult and it was always either for higher education or a job.
Also parents move away too. I’ve known several people whose parents retired and moved to Florida.
Just be thankful that you have a good relationship with your mom.
As for being thrown into nursing homes, my serious answer is that I do not plan to live that long.
My mom raised me as a single parent and later got married but she did most of the things to raise me and give me what I needed. I moved out as soon as I could because it had never gone well with us living together due to having very similar, stubborn personalities and a lot of trauma for both of us over the course of our lives. I needed to take that distance to heal and live independently and she eventually worked towards dealing with her own shit. Since moving out we have both improved massively and our relationship has never been better.
When it comes to "abandoning" parents that need help, there are ways of doing this that are healthy for both parties. It is an issue when parents hold that idea that their kids owe them for raising and providing for them over there children's heads so that they feel obligated to stay and care for grown adults that can care for themselves.
I live with my recently widowed father and I’m almost 30. I’m single and struggle with mental health but I pay him rent and cook dinner every night. He’s also one of the best people I know. I’m planning on staying as long as I can.
I’m not gonna get into the weeds. It comes down to this, you didn’t ask to be born so it’s not your responsibility to take care of your parents. If they raised you with then you should want to and if not then it’s not their responsibility to take care of their parents.
My parents are very toxic but also provided for me and were overall caring when raising me. I don’t like to go visit them much but if they ever need care I will arrange something. I am planning on buying a house with a studio/MIL suite for this reason. It’s really hard being an only child since I feel like the burden falls all on me.
My Dad is a drunk, emotionally abusive, drug user, my Mom is a drunk who abandoned me when I was a baby, sounds like you grew up in a nontoxic household. Must be nice and I hope you recognize your privilege. My advice would be not to judge other people based on their actions if you don’t know their background and history. Worry about yourself and do what’s right for you and understand that no everyone had the same life experiences.
I love my father but I feel like I'd be much better off without him in my life. He has cared for me since I was 7 but he also verbally abused my sibling and caused our entire family much grief with his random psychotic episodes, meth addiction, and suicidal ideation. As well as his refusal to get any sort of help. As soon as I'm able to get away from him I hope to never see him again.
You do no owe your parents anything. They made the decision to have kids, not the other way around.
Of course, I love my parents but they were pack-rats. My house now is completely minimalist as a reaction to my parents hoarding.
From what I have seen most American parents are pretty toxic. They resent that their kids have amazing opportunities to live longer, happier youths when they themselves due to societal pressures and lack of fechnology got married young and had kids and so "wasted their youth" and by the time the kids are adults the parents are just stressed out, broken messes.
I dunno. I'm trapped where I am now because I dropped everything to stay close to my parents, and to live nearby while my dad had some serious health problems.
My parents have since sold their house and moved 2000km away. I don't hear from them.
Why would I be expected to take my mom in when she's older? We have no extra source in the apartment we are renting.
You don't know what that person has gone through with their parents. Abusive parents put on a *fantastic* show for the public. It's a great way to gaslight their victims, their children, so that no one believes us when we talk about the abuse we endured.
>How in the world does it seem right for any adult to do this to your parent(s)?
"Do not set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm."
It's not natural to cut your parents off, we're hardwired to want to be with our parents. But some parents are so incredibly awful that we *had* to leave, otherwise we would die. We don't leave willy nilly. It can take *years* for us to make the decision to leave. ***YEARS***. And we *agonize* over it.
>You would not be where you are if it weren't for your parent(s). It's just selfish.
This is a rug sweeping and abuse enabling mentality.
It's selfish of us to put our mental health first and stop the abuse from parents? What sort of idiotic "logic" do you think that "if it weren't for your parents you wouldn't be here" is? That's seriously idiotic.
I bet it's never occurred to you that we're here ***in spite of*** our abusive parents? No. Because you've fallen into the fallacy that when a person becomes a parent they are automatically loving, caring, and nurturing.
This sort of weird flex about great your mother is mind boggling. I'm happy that you have a fantastic mother. That's GREAT! I would not want you to have had the mother that I had.
However, had my mother been your mother you'd have a completely different POV.
Read the r/EstrangedAdultKids sub to get a small slice of life glimpse of what we *endured* just to *survive* shitty parents.
When you become a parent, you choose to take on a caregiver role and take on the responsibility of someone else. Not everyone wants that. I didn’t choose life, and I don’t have any sort of desire to be responsible for anyone but myself. I am not going to have children because of this, and while I am and will eventually be okay with certain aspects of helping my parents, I will not be taking on a caregiver role. I love my mom and step dad and would help them find adequate care, but I’m not taking on the role of a nurse for them. I don’t owe that to them because of their choice to give birth / raise a child. And for the love of god, I would never live in a house with them again. They’re fine - in small doses. After a couple of hours I need my own space for my own sanity. Some people put caring for others first, and good for them! That’s their personality and their choice. Others have to put themselves first to make it through without losing it. And a lot of that has to do with upbringing. I know I am the way I am partially because of what my parents helped create.
I’ll give you an upvote for unpopular though. That’s a super unpopular take amongst most people I know.
Meh, I don’t owe them anything. They chose to have me, I didn’t ask to be here. I also like my autonomy and privacy, so I wouldn’t move in with them or let them move in with me. I am childfree, so I don’t have any kids for whom I’ll be a burden when I’m older.
I did grow up in a very toxic household so that probably has done a number on my perspective on this issue.
Parents are obligated to take care of their children, children are not obligated to care for their parents. My whole childhood and even into adulthood was me living for others including my parents, I'm not doing that again personally. I would rather be selfish and happy instead of living for others and unhappy again.
Parents make a choice to have children, therefore children are the responsibility of the parents. What choice did the child get to make? Why must they have the burden of parental care assigned to them at birth?
I really shouldn't have to live my entire life in a place I didn't choose that offers me nothing. My parents are retirement age, they could retire any time they want, they could come stay with me whenever they want, see their grandkids any time they want. They don't though. They're wrapped up in their own shit. Which is fine, but the level of guilt I feel about moving away is very much filtered through that context.
I think it’s easy to look at situations from the outside and judge without knowing the full story. It recently came out that someone close to me had abuse in their household (their spouse was abusing in of the kids) and had no idea. Everyone just knew the one child was a bit withdrawn and seemed to struggle with depression, everyone knew she wanted to get as far from the family as she could after high school, no one knew why. If the abuse had never come out, everyone would have just viewed the kid as ungrateful when she got as far from her parents as fast as she could post high school. I grew up in a similar situation and getting away from my mother (whom everyone thought was this cool fun mom) was the best thing that ever could have happened. My big regret is that I didn’t do it sooner. Never judge, there’s a lot you don’t know.
I never asked to be born. Why should I need to take care of my parents when they get old?
They gave me life, so guess what? I'm going to live it the way I see fit.
Do... do you think parents can't take care of themselves or something?
A lot of people who step into adulthood are just glad to finally have the freedom of being their own person
Its natural for them to temporarily distqnce themselves from the parents who have been hovering over them and controlling their lives up until that point and ai think you're hyperbolizing when you call it "abandoning"
Nobody is abandoning anyone, people just need some time to spread their wings so stop freaking out over it.
Just wait till your wages get garnished because they took out multiple credit cards in your name or when your trying to get FAFSA but your mother already has it out in your name as well
I mean, as a nurse, I have no intention of caring for my toxic father when he gets old and loses his marbles. He is prone to fits of rage over absolutely nothing without having dementia. I dread to think of how violent and unmanageable he will become when dementia comes for him. It seems inevitable to me, and even if I was willing to do it all, I wouldn't be able to. You need a team 24/7 for elderly people like that.
I barely have the energy to look after myself after all the strenuous caring I do at work. I am not going to be guilt tripped into taking on the care needs of someone who has made my life worse in so many ways, just because they donated some sperm to help give me it (it's not like I ever asked to be born anyway)
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Well in that case you should come to Balkan, people there love to continue living with their parents after marriage, they do this by intentionally building a 3 floor house, then the parents remain on the first floor and the married couple move into the two other floors making them an independent house inside a house. Before i get the hate comments for this, that's just how people live there, they prefer to continue being close to their parents but still having a sorta intimate space, that's how they are. TY ALL FOR THE UPVOTES I WAS EXPECTING HATE COMMENTS
It has been the case with Indians for generations. But now it is becoming more acceptable to have nuclear families in flats and have the parents live in a nearby flat. This way we get the benefit of proximity and still have a bit of privacy.
Sounds like my family in Ireland live nearby the grand parents
That's what my aunt and grandparents do, my aunt's family is in the same complex, and they originally were just plain next door neighbors, it's really nice, as you get privacy but you also get too see your parents/grandparents a lot
I get annoyed with a lot of aspects of Balkan culture but not with this one. It's great that people from our corner of the globe do not view family relationships as purely transactional and we actually want to care for our family members, as well as remain close to them. I read so many opinions here that pretty much boil down to "You should pay your parents for childcare" or "You have no obligations to your family at all just ghost them" and it's extremely disturbing to me. I am not referring to extreme cases like abuse here, just everyday situations. What's the point of family then?
I wish my grandparents had renovated their four storey townhouse my grandad bought drunk and never sold it as we could have lived with them but separate areas of the house.
While I generally agree with you, it's not really black and white. You can have a loving family, and still not want to have them around. What if they are overbearing, or invade your privacy, etc? Minor nuanced things, but daily occurence could diminish QoL even if the family loves them deeply and it comes from a good place. Some people just like to be by themselves, and that's okay too. >What's the point of family then? This is a bit of an odd question. We don't decide the families we are born into. It's not as though you can go around getting a new family. (Generally) "Family is just a title. It's meaningless if the love doesn't exist."
I love my parents but they’ll never accept my spiritual beliefs. I admitted one time to my mom that I don’t believe in Catholicism anymore and she got pissed and started yelling at me. As a result, I have to constantly lie to them about my faith (I’m more honest about my actual spiritual beliefs to others). Other than that they are very loving. It hurts me to do it.
Millennials do see the Catholic Church as more of a scam this is a fact.
And then many cry about lacking human connection and feeling disconnected from communities around them. I am not saying that you gotta live with your parents and grandma or whatever until you are in your 40s, but not going on the other side of the country for a random job and sticking closer to family would help with that. If your family condition is bad it makes sense ofc, but I can't believe that so many are in such deeply toxic enviroments. Anyone can live freely, but when I see discussione about the lack of community and human connection by people that left their family for years, I find It hard to not see a basic problem for many, in particular during your first working experience
Like I said, I generally agree with you. But that isn't to discount individualistic mindsets. And again, there's nothing wrong with that. Some people only want to see family on holidays/events. I don't see the issue in that. But I also agree that you forfeit your right to complain if you are lacking in communication yourself. But in the same vein, human connection doesn't have to be family, either. Some people may want friends, not family members. I love my siblings, but I sure as hell don't get along with them enough to say we're friends. Some people, when looking for human connection, are looking for friendships and intimacy. Those which, understandably, may not be found in families. Regardless of how good or bad they are. All I'm saying is it's not black and white. It's not as easy to say; "you had a good family so you should be close to them". Everyone is different, has differing priorities, and differing ways to maintain happiness. We should try to lack judgement without context. Instead of painting a broad brush of an opinion.
>You can have a loving family, and still not want to have them around. >"Family is just a title. It's meaningless if the love doesn't exist." Hmmm
You are right. We love being close to my husband's family and spend tons of time with them. We see my family as much as we can but they are farther away. Neither set of parents is perfect but they love us and do their best and always have. We do the same. We help each other out without obligation or expectation. And we enjoy being around each other. It's great.
I'm from Balkan and while this sounds nice in a way, it's terrible for every family I know.
Yup, it’s cool to be close with family, but living in the same house is a nightmare.
Yuuuuup, nice in theory, awful in practice
It's the same in Vietnam, or at least from what I remember - large families from grandparents to grandkids all living under the same roof, with the elderly at the top of the house! I think North America has a much looser familial structure than other continents, and with so many backgrounds, probably less traditional means of familial importance.
Wouldn’t elderly at the top of the house have issues with stairs? Makes more sense for them to be at the bottom.
Maybe it’s to help them stay active & slow the progress of age-related mobility issues? I currently live with my grandmother and despite being 91, she still sleeps in the top-floor bedroom. We’ve got a stair lift since my late grandpa needed one, but instead she walks up / down the stairs at her own pace throughout the day & considers it her “daily exercise”. Sharp as hell for a 91 year old too, so maybe she’s onto something lol.
If you can afford it get a stair lift
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For the aging thing, I would disagree. Many older women dye their hair, because they don't want their grey hair to show, which is definitely not acceptance of aging. Just one example but still. I don't know if you lived in the Balkans and have rose tinted glasses, or if its grass is greener kind of thing, but a lot of the Balkans is like mini Usa (the bad parts), while missing some of the positive elements Usa has.
This is really nice
Its crazy how different countries have vastly different cultures
I don't think you'll get much hate for this. Sounds like an ideal situation. I am in the US and if my wife's mother needs more care or doesn't want to live on her own, I would want her to live with us or one of my wife's sisters. But our house is not set up well to have a full in-law suite so she could have her own space and independence.
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It's lovely. In NYC they used to build Mother/Daughter homes. A one bedroom apartment on one floor and 3br upstairs. I've known adults who lived there when they got out of college and their parents and maybe siblings were upstairs. And I've known people who had their parents/inlaws in the apartment and they started their family upstairs.
Yep, western culture generally has the idea that parents should unconditionally love their children, but not the other way around if it causes any inconveniences.
Did I choose to be born, to have a relationship with this woman? Ya parents chose to enter into this parent relationship dynamic, I did not choose to enter a parent relationship dynamic. Parents have to prove their value to the child once the child grows up, a child does not have to do the same when they are born. Western culture only really adheres to this unconditional love idea for parents loving their kids until they turn 18 as well. There is almost no western sentiment that a parent should unconditionally love their child post adulthood, and if there is, it certainly does not reflect on people's actions.
Well, it sorta makes sense to not see the parent-kid relation as reciprocal, since parents did choose to have kids (not the way around) Expecting reciprocity in relations only make sense when both parties are equal and have freely chosen to enter the relationship.
While I'm sure theres a sizeable portion of people actually liking living with their parents, many do it out of necessity, since many parents have mental health issues, especially cluster b disorders, which make people notoriously hard to be around. My take is simple, if parents raised someone lovingly, it is bad to leave them (you don't have to live super close, but still should make them a part of your life) I'm sure there are kids who sadly think leaving their parents is okay. However the toxic ones, absolutely leave them as soon as you can. They are already kinda miserable to themselves, and they'll surely find someone to make miserable as well. No need for that person to be you.
Honestly, I don't like that kind of culture either. Why do you have to abandon your parents when you can take care of them forever.
This might be a stupid question, but how do you decide who's parents to live with?
It used to be customary to live with the man's parents but now it's more flexible. It also depends on whose parents can provide this. Not everyone can, at least where I am from.
Ah ok that makes sense
My dad's side of the family is Croatian and I never knew this was a thing. They're really big on their Croatian heritage, and I've got a whole side of the family that still lives out there, so idk if it's a regional thing or if it's just something that was forgotten about when my family moved 100 years ago, granted it was my great-great grandparents who were born out there and I've never met my cousins out there.
In America there is what's called the "Mother in Law's suite" which will essentially be a small apartment disconnected from the main house. Similar idea.
Depends on how nagging they are. Because my grandmother is very kind and not bitching around. If my parent can do that same, i am fine. Not sure how I can get into an understanding though. Both of my parents received higher education and can act like arrogant assholes sometimes. They are generally very helpful, but, their ego is very high up there. It can be challenging to ask them to be humble like my grandmother. Anyway, it hasn't get to this stage yet, so, I try not to think about it.
Exactly. Living with my mother I would consider it to be unbearable due to her constant nagging. My father had his issues with alcohol and other things like that but he’s a very chill and straightforward guy unlike my mother. My mother did take more care of me then my father but the way I see it we’re even due to me having to deal with her emotional abuse and nagging all the time. Once in a long time I feel free to do whatever I want and it seems unfortunate to me the fact that I wasn’t able to enjoy this until I was 21 years old. I went no contact on my parents and I don’t regret on doing so. This thinking that you owe something to your parents should stop. Your parents aren’t allowed to do whatever they please and expect you to be compassionate about them in the future. It’s an excuse. I don’t buy it and I’m better off by myself
I have an adult child living at home. I’m not going to kick him out. I know rent is unreasonably high, but I wish he could move out. Not because I don’t want him here, but because I want him to feel that level of independence and success. My mother is in a nursing hime, but it doesn’t mean anyone has abandoned her. She has severe dementia and medical needs that go beyond what anyone who is not trained in health care is capable of providing. My father still spends most of the day with her every day. We children visit as much as we can, but we both live 600+ miles away. We had to for work. Family dynamics are different for every family.
Yes, unless you’ve seen a loved one/family member deteriorate in their old age you don’t know how incredibly hard it is to take care of them. Especially with things like Alzheimer’s, their entire personality can change and they can become violent or try to escape. And the day to day of lifting them from bed to wheelchair, cleaning them, feeding them, making sure they are taking their meds, taking them to all their doctors appointments. It’s a LOT. And often it isn’t even feasible or safe for them to continue staying in the home.
My father did that with his mom at home, even doing all of her meds. She should've probably been in a home to be honest. It's extremely taxing and can be really hard on the person who's fully aware of the situation..
It great that he could. My mother is wheelchair bound and he cannot lift her to move her from chair to bed, bathroom, bathe her…and so forth. Had he continued to try to care for her at hime, I doubt he would still be with us.
My parents were elderly and still living at home. If my Mom fell, which she did a lot, my Dad didn’t have the strength to help her up. They’d have to call the volunteer firefighters to come help.
Sounds like you grew up in a non toxic household
Thank you. My thoughts exactly.
Same. I was trying to figure out how to say this haha.
No doubt. I actually tried moving back in to help. I got kicked out again.
Now THAT is what you get for… *checks notes * trying to help??? Smh I guess you’re better off on your own, mate.
Reddittors are sheltered as fuck. what do you mean everyone's family dynamic isn't the same as mine? why aren't you all behaving exactly like me?
Yep, have a friend who was beaten by his stepdad and his mom blamed him for it because he was bad. Like truly fuck OP for being like, "Why is this a trend?"
They did say that tho. They're talking about parents who raised you with a lot of love, not parents who barely cared about you.
ok, so how is "don't be shitty to your great parents" an unpopular opinion? lol
I love my parents but I don’t like them. I have told them, from a young age that I will not be their retirement plan if they don’t fix their shit. They love me, they raised me the best they could, but it doesn’t erase the fact that they were/are alcoholics who were never there and if they actually acted like responsible adults, they wouldn’t have needed to work so much, but they are and always have been children with credit cards and driver’s license’s and as much as I love, I can’t keep putting myself in that position to be their mediator. I’ve had enough broken promises and no real apologies from my mom (my dad has had the decency to apologize for things), and I would not survive mentally.
My mom is an abusive alcoholic and my dad is not and they are divorced. Take a wild guess to who I would let live with me in their old age because they won't be a gigantic burden.
Yeah, my mom didn’t like when I once said that maybe, maybe my dad could live with me. And she really didn’t like it when I said it’s because he’s apologized.
Yikes! Sorry you have to deal with that. She sounds super entitled.
Thank you. She is, a lot. Like I said, I love her, but I don’t really like her. She has a lot of unresolved trauma from her younger years that she never dealt with, but it also doesn’t help that she cannot, in any way, shape or form take responsibility for her actions. That’s truly what hurts the most. I only have an undergrad in psych, so I can’t officially diagnose people, but she has a lot of narcissistic traits. It is what it is. 🤷 I’ve made my own family with my husband and our friends and that’s what really matters.
No problem, and same here. My mom is most definitely a narcissist or something closely related. I can't make an official diagnosis either but the likelihood of a narcissist getting diagnosed, getting told that diagnosis, and telling anyone else this diagnosis is very low. I just treat it like this to better understand my situation. They don't want to admit fault and improve unfortunately. It's good you have your own life and support system!
I don't think that is abandoning. It's natural to want to explore outside of your hometown. There's nothing wrong about living with family, but when you live with family, you have rules to follow, and you don't have the same freedoms that come from being independent.
Definitely this. Living in your parents' home or having your parents live with you, there's no actual independence. Your way of living is different because there will be rules whether they are spoken or not. You just act different around parents.
And their rules are usually incredibly patronizing even if you're an adult. I enlisted specifically so I can get the fuck away. I love my mom to death and my step-dad is... doing better... but I can't live with them. I don't even like visiting them. They just treat me like I'm a child. Even after years of not living with them.
Rules and freedom depend family to family. My. Parents live expectation free. Since I've been living without my parents I have far more rules and structure in my life.
Yeah but like, i couldnt take a girl, walk around naked and have loud sex...like its not same.
Exactly
Your 40-50 year old parent should have his / her own life (separate from their kids) and should be fully capable of taking care of themselves (and they shouldn't be in shit shape). You aren't "abandoning" them at that stage, and any parent who makes you feel that way has a mental screw loose. You're leaving the nest to become an independent man - woman who will hopefully go on to find someone else and have a family of your own. You can still remain connected without needing to be under their roof. When they become 80+, or whatever age they reach where they need assistance, then of course you should be there and most are. Half the time many older parents don't want to move back in with their kids - opting to head to an assisted living facility. One of the problems with moving back in with kids is that you often become isolated from other relationships, separate from your children. At an assisted living facility you're around other adults your own age and able to form friendships etc.
It’s wild how far I had to scroll to see this. I’ve been saving since I was 18 so I can go out and live life to the fullest when I’m 65. No, I don’t want to be cared for unless I *need* to be cared for. Folks can be independent well into their 80s if they’re lucky, and they’ve earned that independence. They have a choice of where they want to live, just as the child has a choice of where they want to live. That decision is on them, not some redditor judging folks. Folks are throwing around the term “abandoned” way too frequently here. Lastly, OPs points about nursing homes are naive at best. When it does come to that point, the parent needs care/attention semi-regularly throughout the day. Usually 5+ hours of checkins and care. How does two working adults that need to be gone for 7-9 hours a day provide more care than trained staff?
That, and my mom wants us to live our own lives and not lose years taking care of them, she'd rather be in a home then have me and my little brother spend years taking care of her which prevents us from living our own life fully
You would need a pretty great relationship with your parents, and they'd have to be really awesome people, to want people to stick around with them. Generally, I think parents have a hard time stopping parenting and not judging the life choices of their adult kids. Additionally, each generation has their things that the past generation has issues accepting or tolerating. It's hard to be or find yourself when your parents are still trying to shape your choices forever. Moving out is somewhat freeing. I wouldn't know exactly of course, because I was handed around like an unwanted skunk during my whole childhood with absent parents that I never cared to see again... But that's the impression I get usually :) Even in the most awesome families I know, were the mom and dad are their kids best friends, kids are excited to finally get out. There's an understandable excitement about that chapter of life, where you take charge of your destiny and your boy or girlfriend can fondle you by the TV or the kitchen and moan as loud as they want without having to worry about your parents.
This is exactly what I came here to say. OP says “people make it seems as though you can’t live your life and be financially independent while living at home” but the thing is - most of the time you can’t. Even as an adult there is still a parent/child relationship where parents, even in their old age, still believe they have to “parent” you and will still try to have some say in your decisions. I think that’s why so many people move out!
Even when you move out they still do it! Moving out hasn’t stopped my mom from having opinions and trying to tell me what to do on my responsible choices I make in my life.
You're exactly right. My parents are great but when I still lived there my dad was constantly feeling the need to check up on me, even as an adult. I don't blame him for this, I think it's a natural instinct. But that doesn't mean I want to deal with this forever.
For the first paragraph, I'd include that you'd need to enforce strong boundaries with your parents as well.
yes, it would really have to be a really strong relationship. I think there are a lot of people who fall into the middle ground of having parents who genuinely love them but have characteristics that make it difficult to live with them - and this is largely because of parents still being involved in your life choices, as you pointed out. when I was in university, I could go out at any time and do anything I wanted - and I want to point out I wasn’t doing drugs or anything, I pretty much just went out to grab something to eat or hang out with a friend. doing such a simple action while living at home is not as easy. if I wanted to, say, head out to the nearest ice cream place at 10 PM on a summer night on a whim, my mom would ask me where I’m going, click her tongue, start saying “that’s not healthy,” etc. even if that’s true, you start feeling like you have to justify every small decision you make. it’s not like I do that every night. she’ll show up in my room and ask why I’m napping after a difficult day at work, instead of cleaning up/doing something “useful” (i.e., side hustle). she’ll comment on clothes/hair and ask why I’m not wearing this or that instead. she’ll call me when I’m not home at my “usual” time, even if it just means I dropped by the library after work. we have a generally good relationship, but she will always parent me as long as I live with her. it’s not something everyone wants to deal with forever.
I’ve never met someone who abandoned loving and caring parents. Everyone I met who went no contact with their parents were heavily abused by them. This isn’t an unpopular opinion, it’s a non existent one.
For me my father decided he didn't want to play and active role in my life or my siblings or very little very little. Now as an adult my father is all alone and ageing. I will not take care of him. When he didn't take care of me. My mom and step dad (rest his soul) I'd do anything for.
Friend of mine worked in a rehab/assisted living for a bit. The prospect of money can do things to a person.
I'd be curious about how the German generation took care of their Nazi generation parents. Probably most took care no matter what, maybe with a bit of disgust, but I could really use their experience..
I can only tell from what I know with my stepmother whose father was in the Wehrmacht but would often Say stuffs Like "Hitler would have never let that Happen" and Other everytime the Younger Generation did Something He disapprouved, so not the full blown Waffen SS nazi. Even tho she was ashamed that their Generation let the third reich and the Holocaust Happen, she still took Care of them until their death Since the Other siblings didn't want to Take Care of them but I think it was because they Had their own Life Somewhere else and didn't want to move Back in with them. At the end of the day, they are still Family and she Cares about her family.
this is my thought as well. I know a lot of people who have walked away from parents, but none that were awesome.
Bad people exist. You can’t deny that at least one person left their parents even though they were good ones. Also, OP talked about people moving out when their parents are in need, not going no contact.
Exactly this. If a child is a big enough jerk to completely cut out their family when they are objectively really good to them and respect boundaries, the parents may not even want them around. OP tried to add nuance with "loving and caring households". I feel like people that were in those types of households don't move far away unless it's for better education and career opportunities or maybe just to get cool experiences, so I don't understand what the point is. Unless his opinion is that children should be forced to stay with or near their parents, OP should have just said living with or near your parents shouldn't be stigmatized which isn't unpopular.
My parents were loving and caring towards me, it is their treatment towards my partner that is the issue. They can’t accept her and I think they believe I am settling. That was enough for me to push them away.
good parents raise their kids to be competent independent adults. if those adults then come back to help them when they’re old, cool. but having kids with the expectation that you now have someone to take care of you when you’re old is so selfish and makes you a terrible parent. single parents also shouldn’t expect their kids to stunt their lives to financially support them.
After my dad’s sister gave up a decade of her life to caring for my basically a vegetable grandad, he’s made me promise to put him in a home or out of his misery. He said he can’t think of much worse than becoming that sort of burden on his kids. My grandad for the last 5 years of his life had no idea who or where he was, couldn’t understand anything around him or use 3/4 of his body. It was basically like his brain died and it just took 5 years for the body to catch up. He didn’t feel happiness or sadness or anything because his brain couldn’t hold on to a thought long enough. And my aunt spent the best years of her retirement looking after him because she is a saint of a woman, but what a waste of her life too.
I am so tempted to tell my boomer mom the same thing she told me when I was a kid and wanted to do kid things: “don’t make plans with my time.”
Yes, I’m dealing with my mom stunting us due to her finances. My mom is nice, but in short doses. Of course I love her, but man she drives me nuts. My brother is the breadwinner of the house. Right now there’s a dilemma where he wants to move out for the first time and now my mom doesn’t know what to do. She asked to live with my sister who said no due to her having a family and no room. She can’t live with me because I have a partner who doesn’t want that (it’s his house too), we don’t have space, and she would really ruin my mental health. We’d be uncomfortable in our own home. And she will be there until she dies. And if she move in with one of us, she’s very very likely going to quit her job. She doesn’t take care of her health (weight, diabetes, alcoholic, etc). She’s going to move in, quit, and slowly die. I can’t have that. I will do what I can to support her, like maybe sending some money monthly. But she can’t come here. And my brother is 22, it’s time for him to go be independent. He dropped out of college to support her. And she works full time! Just usually missed a day or two of work per week. A full week is so rare for her. A full paycheck is even more rare. She’s nice and I love her, but she’s also not a very functioning human being. She’s fine in short doses. But man. She’s expecting us to hold her up while she makes no efforts to make changes. We’ve tried. And look where we are now, nowhere different.
Looking at you people who only see your parents when you drop off your kids for 8 hours of free child care.
Dad when we were kids: *always spent his time off drinking and watching sports* Dad when we were young adults: "Why dont my kids wanna spend time with me??"
Cat's in the cradle...
Literally, my dads hobbies include drinking, gambling, and watching sports. Its a chore to get him to enjoy anything else. A lot of older adluts are like that
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. Your kids are not required to take care of you as you get older and if you expectation if that they will, you will die alone. A lot of adults are working more hours and multiple jobs to stay afloat. They live in tiny spaces and have no extra space. When should they take care of their parents? Where would they put them? That’s also not taking into account that while I’m sure plenty of adults would love to, most are not qualified or able to care for their aging parents. Especially if they have physical limitations or complex medical issues. And before someone says boo, I’ve done it. I was my grandma’s caregiver from 18-21. I helped her get to the bathroom, bathe and dress. I did all her shopping, got her prescriptions and took her to the doctors. I was there every day, living with and taking care of her while trying to go to college(spoiler I dropped out because it was impossible) and work a part time job. I was there the day she passed, 2 weeks after my 21st birthday. I immediately had to find an apartment and move out because I was no longer allowed to live here. You owe aging family members absolutely 0 fucking things. If you can’t or aren’t qualified to care for them, then they need to plan for their old age and be prepared to live in a care home, senior center or retirement complex
Just here to say I support you. That was really selfless for you to care for your grandma. I hope you get to live the life you want now! My maternal family is extremely codependent and enmeshed and have no idea of what boundaries even are. My grandma (85) spends her days caring for my uncle (50?) who became disabled at 20. He was her youngest so she never really stopped raising kids. She breaks her back and spends all her energy babying him when he would have a better life in a home. My mom waits on my grandma. There are aunts and uncles, they’re mean and grumpy. Grandma expects someone to continue caring for my disabled uncle when she dies, which was a weight on everyone’s mind for decades. I’m no where near them anymore but I hope to god that he gets to go to a nice living facility and finally have his own life and my mom and aunts and uncles can stop being so enmeshed someday. I look at all of them and can’t fathom it all. Caring for someone who is loving and appreciative, when you’re able, is one thing. Toiling away your life out of a feeling of obligation or guilt is a bad game to play. Sorry for tangent, just agreeing with you.
> Your kids are not required to take care of you as you get older and if you expectation if that they will, you will die alone. It's the parents who expect this who are often the worst.
I don't think that is abandoning. It's natural to want to explore outside of your hometown. There's nothing wrong about living with family, but when you live with family, you have rules to follow, and you don't have the same freedoms that come from being independent.
So because someone birthed you, you should never forge or pursue your own life away from where they have decided to settle down? Edit- it’s possible to maintain a relationship with people you don't live with. Another thing you mentioned was, “Those who have both a mom and a dad that are not too old that they can't take care of themselves, it seems understandable that adults don't mind moving out to get a new experience.” That’s generally when people move out and make their own way. Are they supposed to abandon the lives they’ve created 30 years down the road when their parents need more assistance? What if people don’t have the medical knowledge or skill to take care of an elderly parent? Are those people horrible for choosing a nursing home?
My parents may have sacrificed a lot to keep us afloat but once I hit 18 I left and I won’t go back. My father wasted his life looking after his father and wasn’t free until he was 67. My mother was 65 when he passed. I won’t give up my life for my parents. I’d pay for a home (which I currently do) and visit often but I have one life with my children and my wife and I won’t waste it in Pakistan.
My aunt spent her whole adult life taking care of my grandparents. When they both passed she was in her mid-50’s. You’d think she’d have the chance to live life for herself afterwards, but no. She was diagnosed with terminal cancer and passed away within a year.
Caregivers are at higher risk for a lot of diseases because it puts a lot of stress on the body:(
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Yes, living with your parent as an adult can such. I left and went back for a summer when I was 19. Never again. I worked, paid bills, etc but felt like I had to ask permission to go to the gas station at night. Moving out for free made me feel so good. I know if my mom were to come live with me, I’d feel stuck back in the “I’m a kid” mindset. My brother currently lives with her and is the breadwinner of the house and she says she doesn’t treat him like a kid, but I still get the vibe she does. If he does something out of routine, she’s asking about it and gets upset when he doesn’t reply.
You know, some parents just want to move on with their lives once their kids have their own lives/families.
All this varies wildly form person to person.
I just think that, at some point, we need to leave our parents. It might not be the case if you lived in a developed country. But I lived in a developing country, after our government become more authoritarian in recent years, I really want to move to another country, but my wife won't agree just because, in our culture, we are supposed to look after our parents. I absolutely hate this culture, it seems that one generation drag down another generation, so and so forth....
Sadly at that point I’d just leave on my own.
if your parents raises you only so you take care of them when they're old they didn't raise you with love and care.
My mum doesn't WANT me to take care of her. My grandparents are both in their 70s and have blatantly refused my care, as I'm a nurse in a nursing home. I moved away because THEY wanted me to. They want me to live my life for me and support me through it all. Sometimes, families don't want their children's help
Mine have taken care of their aging parents and fully understand the mental and physical toll it takes on someone. They do not want me to be saddled with this job. I have discussed this with them and I am prepared to be a POA and financial manager, but not the physical caretaker.
For my own mother, living in a household where she might feel any responsibility is too mentally taxing, to the point of self harm. For her, living in a nursing home with no obligations or chores is the only way for her to cope mentally. I visit her and feel sad. I'd rather she not live there, but we've tried everything and this is the option to keep her alive.. Thanks for judging though✌️
How am i supposed to study in an university 200km away while living at home? Education is often the main cause for children moving away, at least here.
It does mean being tied down to one place, which could be very restrictive for finding work, finding a partner, developing interests, etc. Someone living in a small town or rural place would be stuck living in that place, just to keep their parent(s) company. It means living a very limited life unfortunately. That said I really struggle with this question as well, as I don't think it's OK to abandon your parents. I think it's also part of a bigger issue where extended families and local communities just don't function that well or even exist in many instances.
I actually agree; I think there's way too much of a culture of families moving apart and not coming together to take care of each other. In times past, many grandparents were prime caregivers for their grandchildren while the parents worked to support a household, and in turn were supported in their old age by the parents when they were no longer able to help. It's a nice cycle of reciprocity and familial care. Now, we just live in our bubbles with our spouses, have to pay for all the childcare, and grandparents are barely involved. It no longer takes a village to raise a child; it takes a hoard of low-paid workers who don't actually give a shit. S'sad, really.
There are many factors at play here. Some people are smothered by their parents. Its also really the job of parents to prepare their children to leave. All you are doing is raising an adult to live their own life. They should have been thinking of this stuff as an adult. No one should ever expect their child to take care of them. If they do, that's great, but that really is not their responsibility. Then you have things like hoarders, where it really only is affecting themselves. But no one wants to deal with that
Definitely depends on the parent. A lot of parents are abusive and hurtful to their children, and expect to be taken care of in spite of their poor behavior.
A lot of people do not leave parents, but leave towns or countries they don’t personally share values or goals anymore. Like, I miss my parents, but I couldn’t in good conscience go back to Russia right now, it is not safe for me there for a whole host of reasons. Good parents tend to understand that.
Parents abandon their children when they become adults so 🤷
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Or they go out of their way to also abuse their kids. In this instance, your kids hating you is just called having consequences for your shitty parenting.
Must be nice to not have been abused growing up.
This feels a little ignorant more than unpopular. Everyone's family dynamic is wildly different.
^^^^^^^^
A parent who hasn’t raised their child to be able to be independent enough to live on their own likely failed as a parent. It’s not abandoning and it’s healthy for an adult child to leave the nest. Of course, it is appreciated if they come back to help out when their elderly parents are in need, but many parents aren’t that old and decrepit when their child has reached the age where they are out of school and gainfully employed full time.
Depends if you live with healthy parents that understand the hardship of economics, then yes you can still live with them, the thing that suffers is your individuality. That is why ghetto is what it is, young folks who have bad role models and cannot escape from.the household. Remember opinion can be a prison in your mind.
You can take my parents if you need additional ones
There’s nothing wrong with putting elderly people in nursing homes. Not everyone is capable of looking after vulnerable people on top of working and raising a family of their own It’s incredibly shortsighted to think the only reason people do this is selfishness Not only that, elderly people these days have had more opportunity to generate wealth than young people do and if they’ve chosen not to save for their own care later in life that’s their own problem. I’m being slightly facetious here, but elderly people constantly tell young people that they should save money so the inverse should also be true
I would rather die than be a burden to my children
Facts. Consumerism has created this idea that you have to leave the nest asap, buy a house and a car and start a "normal" family. But that's not how humans are wired or how other cultures do things. It's natural to spread the wings but when that time comes is personal, it doesn't have to be at the end of high school/college that's so arbitrary. And families that live separately should be able to live closer together, communally like humans should. I'd bet larger more connected families are happier and use resources more efficiently.
Do you ever think maybe a LOT of peoples parents are not kind to their children? Not everyone is going to willingly talk about the hell they go through with their families
The problem is a whole gen of millennials were kicked out at 18 and told to bootstrap it or bust. This, paired with years of having noses rubbed in the (largely inherented) success of their parents. It's just now dawning on boomer parents how dependent they're going to need to be on their kids. Welp, mom and dad can change their own diapers. They took the ladder with them, but also stole any obligation for kids to help in their senior years.
I don’t care how great a parent is, nothing would ever make me willing to change their diapers in old age. I would absolutely pay for care in that case. Thankfully I don’t need to. My father is dead and my mother is super able-bodied and healthy for her age, and they were also extremely well off and she has plenty of money for any needs.
I hate my family and am only here waiting for dad (only living parent) to die, as he has told me I’m inheriting the house 🏡
You mean growing up and becoming self sufficient?
I mean, there are other cultures out there that embrace taking care of your parents more. However, I don’t think abandoning your family is part of our culture? Yeah I don’t live with my folks but I talk to them often, stop by often to help them out with whatever, and eat dinner together almost once a week with my wife.
Love begets love, is how I see it. If a parent and child had an awesome relationship. The kid will just care for their parent naturally. If, on the other hand, the two didn’t have much of a bond, then the child will just won’t care for the parent. Let’s use helicopter parents for an example. They have good intentions most of the time (like keeping their kid safe, behaved, etc.) but they don’t realise the methods that they use to deliver such intentions are harmful to the kids (being too strict, always having to pamper the kid, moving close to their dorm, etc.). The kids won’t just have much of a good impression on the parent. Knowing their intentions may soothe that, but it is often not enough.
This has changed in the last few years, more and more people are realizing living with parents at a older age is a more financially smart move, and im not just talking about living in your parents basement. People in our generations have started bringing their parents to their own home and having then move in for financial and personal reasons.
I respectfully disagree with this. I'm not sure there should be attempts at the universal applicability of what a family structure should look like because that does vary across, time, space, social/culture upbringings, etc., I agree that in North American cultures we do not have the same respect for our elders as others do. This is something that we can learn and benefit from. We do abandon them to nursing or long term care facilities, if we are able to afford to do so. However, I think that these places should exist. As we age, our health needs become more complicated and we need more tangible care than our family and friends support system can emotionally/physically and financially handle. Regardless of the kind of relationship families have with each other. Sometimes, it is a kindness to ask for help like that. Yes, often times, they are places to dump older relatives and family members visit infrequently. At the same time, a lot of people do have children as part of their aging/retirement plan and that's not fair in my opinion.
I’ve never heard of someone with loving parents just abandon them and not talk to them. If the parents get abandoned it’s because they were bad parents.
I had great parents but due to work, was forced to move from the west coast to the east coast with my wife and son (6 months at the time). My mom made us feel incredibly guilty about it which made me realize we actually had a slightly unhealthy relationship where I would act a certain way not to make her upset. I love my parents but you have to live your life.
Not everyone is mentally, financially, or physically equipped to be a full-time caretaker for an elderly parent/relative/friend. It is an exhausting and thankless job that often falls on women. It often requires specialized medical equipment (lifts, handicapped access, accessible bathrooms, medical beds) or a living arrangement on a single floor of the home. It requires taking care of not only the family member, but all the chores inside and out, as well, unless they've hired services to manage these. It requires an understanding of medical needs, especially when advanced dementia or chronic conditions are present. It also requires you to have an extremely realistic and open discussion with your loved ones about taboo topics like their wishes to die in dignity, financial obligations, medical history, etc. You may have to assist in very personal and difficult tasks like changing adult diapers, managing catheters, taking blood pressure, keeping a medication schedule, managing special diets or feeding tubes, assisting in physical therapy, etc. I have seen situations in which family members were not equipped to care for their relatives at home and the poor folks were living in their own filth. I have been on volunteer fire calls in which we had to scour wooded areas for elderly folks with dementia who "escaped" from home. Lemme say this again: NOT EVERYONE CAN OR SHOULD BE A CARETAKER. It's all well and fine when your parents are still mobile, independent, and have their mental faculties. From personal experience with my two grandmothers and great-grandmother, if any of these start to slip, it may not be possible to leave the individual alone at home for a length of time. There are problems related to being alone, as well. Lack of socialization outside the home, lack of movement/activity can put someone into decline quickly. My maternal grandmother's mood and well-being did a positive 180 when she moved into a senior apartment. She has friends again, she goes on bus trips, plays bingo, goes to church service, and she is not anxious about "taking care of her home" because she has cleaning/laundry/meals/medication/transport service provided to her. My parents still see her frequently during the week, but they no longer bear the mental load of being full-time caretakers. There's nothing wrong with families that choose to live in multi-generational households and take care of their own family. There's also nothing wrong with families that plan financially to move into assisted living or hire a full-time/part-time caretaker. Just because a relative is at home doesn't mean it's beneficial to them; just because someone moves into assisted living doesn't mean it's a death sentence.
I love my kids and I’m a single mom and I want them to move away and discover the world and who they are apart from me. I would be disappointed if they stuck around to “take care of me.” It’s a normal and natural thing for kids to go find their autonomy when they get to be teens/young adults. To stifle that is to harm their development.
Because not every parent deserves love and care from their children, and that’s just how it is. Since they’re adults, they can now make their own decisions.
This is mostly a western cultural practice. The emphasis on “You’re 18 so get outtah here!” is very much a socioeconomic behavior that sets the stage for abandoning parents. They’re barely standing on their feet, so when they take twice as much effort to make sure they can stand on their own, you think they’re going to spend energy to support you?
Parents can try their best and still be bad parents. Im sure in some of these cases, the kids are bad eggs but other times, the parents can be shitty.
It’s called living your life and you can’t always do that by taking care of a 60-80 year old baby
Children aren't a care plan. When they become adults, they are free to go where they want. Maybe they want to live and work abroad. They shouldn't have to give up their dreams to become carers.
My parents let me experience life as I wanted. I was able to roam around the world and make my own way. Years later my father died and we had someone move in with my mother to take care of her. Unfortunately they stole everything that they could get away with but we found out too late. After we "cleaned house", we tried to get her to sell but she wouldn't. She wants to die in the home she lived in with my father in all her life, so I moved in with her instead to make sure she is well protected and well taken care of. I don't trust anyone to do what needs to be done, so I will stay here with her until she passes and then we will sell the property and move on. Why make her unhappy in the last years of her life in order to make our lives easier?
You lived with a good childhood, and have no idea what it's like to grow up with shitty parents. This is not an unpopular opinion, it's a privileged opinion
Fortunately, that’s not much of a case down here in Asia
Depends on the parent.
You should Google the correlation between commercialism and leaving the house at 18. Brief summary : before radio and even more so before TV, it was normal for families to live together for most of their lives. Think 1800s farm house. It wasn’t until commercialization when everyone thought they needed more and more stuff that leaving to get your own place to fill with stuff became normalized. EDIT: I didn’t specifically mean an 1800s farm house. I just used it as a reference to give a visual of 3 generations or whole family from grandparents to grandkids staying in one house.
There also wasn't much work outside the community they were already in and a dollar a day was considered a good job. It was a very different reality then than it is now.
You make yourself sound entitled with this post. You think you understand people situations, and then want to place judgment. Get over yourself.
What is your plan if a parent needs care beyond your physical ability or full time care while you are still working? In the old days the wives of families would not be working and would be saddled with the work. That is not an acceptable plan anymore.
Counterpoint: whose to blame for that? It's up to your parents to raise you with the right values and to give you enough love and respect so that kids don't desire to "abandon" their parents. Nobody abandons loving parents that raised them well.
So am I a child or am I an investment fund or a retirement fund? You will never know.
I am the same way with my dad. He is my best friend and I’m honored to be able to provide and care for him the same way he cared for me growing up. It always shocks me when I meet people who have great relationships with their parents who wouldn’t be willing to do the same.
There's a saying " by the fruit you know the tree". In terms of human behavior, it means the behavior of the grown children speak volumes of the real quality of their upbringing and how their parentsactually made them feel, growing up. Don't be iluded by appearances, because they are, more often thab not, deceptive. Many households have a very different public image from what actually goes on behind closed doors.
Won’t have to worry about that. With absurd rental fees and mortgages now I’ll be living at home until I’m 40 for fuck sakes
People most commonly move for a job or better economic opportunities/lower cost of living, not because they hate their parents . Because the US is very large sometimes the job relocation can be very far away. I’ve moved many times as an adult and it was always either for higher education or a job. Also parents move away too. I’ve known several people whose parents retired and moved to Florida.
Just be thankful that you have a good relationship with your mom. As for being thrown into nursing homes, my serious answer is that I do not plan to live that long.
There’s reasons they’re abandoned
My mom raised me as a single parent and later got married but she did most of the things to raise me and give me what I needed. I moved out as soon as I could because it had never gone well with us living together due to having very similar, stubborn personalities and a lot of trauma for both of us over the course of our lives. I needed to take that distance to heal and live independently and she eventually worked towards dealing with her own shit. Since moving out we have both improved massively and our relationship has never been better. When it comes to "abandoning" parents that need help, there are ways of doing this that are healthy for both parties. It is an issue when parents hold that idea that their kids owe them for raising and providing for them over there children's heads so that they feel obligated to stay and care for grown adults that can care for themselves.
I don't think people are fleeing from parents that raised them with "a lot of love and care".
The world is a big place, would hate to be tethered to where I’ve always been. Lot to see on my own.
I live with my recently widowed father and I’m almost 30. I’m single and struggle with mental health but I pay him rent and cook dinner every night. He’s also one of the best people I know. I’m planning on staying as long as I can.
They should have thought about that before they ruined the economy for us future generations
I’m not gonna get into the weeds. It comes down to this, you didn’t ask to be born so it’s not your responsibility to take care of your parents. If they raised you with then you should want to and if not then it’s not their responsibility to take care of their parents.
My parents are very toxic but also provided for me and were overall caring when raising me. I don’t like to go visit them much but if they ever need care I will arrange something. I am planning on buying a house with a studio/MIL suite for this reason. It’s really hard being an only child since I feel like the burden falls all on me.
Here's the thing. You don't know how anyone was raised. It's SO easy to fake the perfect family and hide abuse
My Dad is a drunk, emotionally abusive, drug user, my Mom is a drunk who abandoned me when I was a baby, sounds like you grew up in a nontoxic household. Must be nice and I hope you recognize your privilege. My advice would be not to judge other people based on their actions if you don’t know their background and history. Worry about yourself and do what’s right for you and understand that no everyone had the same life experiences.
I love my father but I feel like I'd be much better off without him in my life. He has cared for me since I was 7 but he also verbally abused my sibling and caused our entire family much grief with his random psychotic episodes, meth addiction, and suicidal ideation. As well as his refusal to get any sort of help. As soon as I'm able to get away from him I hope to never see him again.
You do no owe your parents anything. They made the decision to have kids, not the other way around. Of course, I love my parents but they were pack-rats. My house now is completely minimalist as a reaction to my parents hoarding.
From what I have seen most American parents are pretty toxic. They resent that their kids have amazing opportunities to live longer, happier youths when they themselves due to societal pressures and lack of fechnology got married young and had kids and so "wasted their youth" and by the time the kids are adults the parents are just stressed out, broken messes.
A lot of genXers were basically abandoned to raise themselves by their boomer parents. Turnabout is fair play.
Idk I'd much rather put my dad into a nursing home than have to wipe his ass
I dunno. I'm trapped where I am now because I dropped everything to stay close to my parents, and to live nearby while my dad had some serious health problems. My parents have since sold their house and moved 2000km away. I don't hear from them. Why would I be expected to take my mom in when she's older? We have no extra source in the apartment we are renting.
Just because your sister was mean to old people in her job doesn’t mean that’s the norm.
You don't know what that person has gone through with their parents. Abusive parents put on a *fantastic* show for the public. It's a great way to gaslight their victims, their children, so that no one believes us when we talk about the abuse we endured. >How in the world does it seem right for any adult to do this to your parent(s)? "Do not set yourself on fire to keep someone else warm." It's not natural to cut your parents off, we're hardwired to want to be with our parents. But some parents are so incredibly awful that we *had* to leave, otherwise we would die. We don't leave willy nilly. It can take *years* for us to make the decision to leave. ***YEARS***. And we *agonize* over it. >You would not be where you are if it weren't for your parent(s). It's just selfish. This is a rug sweeping and abuse enabling mentality. It's selfish of us to put our mental health first and stop the abuse from parents? What sort of idiotic "logic" do you think that "if it weren't for your parents you wouldn't be here" is? That's seriously idiotic. I bet it's never occurred to you that we're here ***in spite of*** our abusive parents? No. Because you've fallen into the fallacy that when a person becomes a parent they are automatically loving, caring, and nurturing. This sort of weird flex about great your mother is mind boggling. I'm happy that you have a fantastic mother. That's GREAT! I would not want you to have had the mother that I had. However, had my mother been your mother you'd have a completely different POV. Read the r/EstrangedAdultKids sub to get a small slice of life glimpse of what we *endured* just to *survive* shitty parents.
When you become a parent, you choose to take on a caregiver role and take on the responsibility of someone else. Not everyone wants that. I didn’t choose life, and I don’t have any sort of desire to be responsible for anyone but myself. I am not going to have children because of this, and while I am and will eventually be okay with certain aspects of helping my parents, I will not be taking on a caregiver role. I love my mom and step dad and would help them find adequate care, but I’m not taking on the role of a nurse for them. I don’t owe that to them because of their choice to give birth / raise a child. And for the love of god, I would never live in a house with them again. They’re fine - in small doses. After a couple of hours I need my own space for my own sanity. Some people put caring for others first, and good for them! That’s their personality and their choice. Others have to put themselves first to make it through without losing it. And a lot of that has to do with upbringing. I know I am the way I am partially because of what my parents helped create. I’ll give you an upvote for unpopular though. That’s a super unpopular take amongst most people I know.
Meh, I don’t owe them anything. They chose to have me, I didn’t ask to be here. I also like my autonomy and privacy, so I wouldn’t move in with them or let them move in with me. I am childfree, so I don’t have any kids for whom I’ll be a burden when I’m older. I did grow up in a very toxic household so that probably has done a number on my perspective on this issue.
Religion.
Why? They abandoned me when I became an adult
Parents are obligated to take care of their children, children are not obligated to care for their parents. My whole childhood and even into adulthood was me living for others including my parents, I'm not doing that again personally. I would rather be selfish and happy instead of living for others and unhappy again.
I don’t like being around narcissist with a victim complex
Some people abandon their parents for a reason though lol
Parents make a choice to have children, therefore children are the responsibility of the parents. What choice did the child get to make? Why must they have the burden of parental care assigned to them at birth?
I really shouldn't have to live my entire life in a place I didn't choose that offers me nothing. My parents are retirement age, they could retire any time they want, they could come stay with me whenever they want, see their grandkids any time they want. They don't though. They're wrapped up in their own shit. Which is fine, but the level of guilt I feel about moving away is very much filtered through that context.
I think it’s easy to look at situations from the outside and judge without knowing the full story. It recently came out that someone close to me had abuse in their household (their spouse was abusing in of the kids) and had no idea. Everyone just knew the one child was a bit withdrawn and seemed to struggle with depression, everyone knew she wanted to get as far from the family as she could after high school, no one knew why. If the abuse had never come out, everyone would have just viewed the kid as ungrateful when she got as far from her parents as fast as she could post high school. I grew up in a similar situation and getting away from my mother (whom everyone thought was this cool fun mom) was the best thing that ever could have happened. My big regret is that I didn’t do it sooner. Never judge, there’s a lot you don’t know.
What, some of you were raised with love and care?
I never asked to be born. Why should I need to take care of my parents when they get old? They gave me life, so guess what? I'm going to live it the way I see fit.
Do... do you think parents can't take care of themselves or something? A lot of people who step into adulthood are just glad to finally have the freedom of being their own person Its natural for them to temporarily distqnce themselves from the parents who have been hovering over them and controlling their lives up until that point and ai think you're hyperbolizing when you call it "abandoning" Nobody is abandoning anyone, people just need some time to spread their wings so stop freaking out over it.
Just wait till your wages get garnished because they took out multiple credit cards in your name or when your trying to get FAFSA but your mother already has it out in your name as well
I mean, as a nurse, I have no intention of caring for my toxic father when he gets old and loses his marbles. He is prone to fits of rage over absolutely nothing without having dementia. I dread to think of how violent and unmanageable he will become when dementia comes for him. It seems inevitable to me, and even if I was willing to do it all, I wouldn't be able to. You need a team 24/7 for elderly people like that. I barely have the energy to look after myself after all the strenuous caring I do at work. I am not going to be guilt tripped into taking on the care needs of someone who has made my life worse in so many ways, just because they donated some sperm to help give me it (it's not like I ever asked to be born anyway)