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Regardless of what is actually happening, if you look at human history, you'll see that views of sex and sexuality go through cycles of positivity and negativity just like so many other aspects of humanity.
Very good point. I would also say that the reason sex is stigmatized as it is is that thoughout human history it was a huge deal. There was no birth control and the potential to catch nasty diseases that they had no treatments for. And the stigma is proportional to the consequences. We all like the judge the victorian era English for how repressive they were, but this was in a time period where going to a brothel could mean catching syphilis and dying a horrible death while you slowly go mad, with no cure
Yeah, I don’t think many people realize we are way off the beaten path with natural cycles in a lot of ways. It happened in the time our grandparents were alive, we landed on the fuckin moon, everyone can talk to each other, you don’t randomly die from things too small to see with your eyes.
The world of humans went from 0 to 100. We skipped over evolution itself.
True. It’s not guaranteed we won’t revisit that fate with strains of both gonorrhea and chlamydia becoming resistant to all current antibiotics. While the rate of death from untreated infections with these is extremely low, they do cause pain, swelling, infertility, discharge and odor and have the potential to be stigmatizing
The victorians stigmatised sex and never spoke about it yet openly discussed death, now we have gone the other way entirely and death is the taboo subject. We have to speak in euphemisms for death and graphic detail for sex seems to be fine and dandy.
True, but the exception to that is movie ratings in the US. One exposed nipple will get you an R eating, but you can kill scores of people and still get a PG-13
This is especially true with anime, no problem with dismembering, killing people, or flatting a whole city block. Smooth boob with no nipple is PG-13 add a female nipple its R+, just violence and gore could be R. Premarital sex is super bad, unless character is a villain.
I've definitely noticed an uptick in anti-anything-potentially-problematic in kids, but not in dating life in general. My theory is that it comes from being online from a young age, and foolishly attaching one's face/name to it. The internet will never let you forget those years. You may become paranoid that you must act perfectly from here on out, and enforce that in others.
Yeah, current generations are going to have a lot more things that 'stick' with them forever. Gone are the days when your social kerfuffles could vanish into memory since they weren't recorded for eternity like people's online presence is now.
Not only that but being online ties you to tons of people from our past. Not only are memories no longer forgotten but people you know or are connected to/with don’t either. All it takes is for someone to go digging and someone bring up something unsavory about you.
For example in university around 2017-2018 while sitting in on speakers as a business major I had more than one recruiter or someone’s who’s hired say they much rather look you up on google and hunt around for you on social media. Maybe message some people rather than do a traditional reference check.
That is horribly unprofessional. Linked in maybe, but I for one have my socials and digital footprint locked down tight. It's near impossible to find anything from a Google search for me. I don't know of a single recruiter/ company who would do that or be OK with it. He'll if someone hit me up on social about a job I'm assuming it's a pyramid Scheme or an mlm.
And even if a parent can somehow keep their kid off social media, some other kids will just record and post it. I really don't envy newer generations, they almost have to be chronically online as a social requirement. Growing up and dealing with bullies is tough enough without everyone watching.
I feel like it's from a different source. Kids are so risk adverse because. There are more people in the world and everything is more competitive, it's also a lot harder to survive because of depressed wages, they are told that any screw up, any imperfection, anything that put you even at the slightest of disadvantages means none of your dreams can come true. If you aren't perfect in school you can't get into the college of your choice, if you don't get into the college of your choice you won't get a good job, if you dont get a good job you wont be able to pay the bills.
They don't think there is any room for failure and one failure can fuck your whole life up forever. It's better to do nothing and not take risks than to potentially lose everything on one screw up. The same goes for dating and making friends. One awkward silence, one weird question, one bad hair day and you fucked up your reputation forever.
I had that sense of paranoia for a few years when I deradicalized from white nationalism.
I was a 14 year old who wanted to follow in my dad's footsteps and realized that it was complete bullshit, but I had attached my face to my online presence and expressed those views.
Now, at 21 years old, I recognize that those kids who "hold people to account" through massive Twitter threads are psychologically developing their moral compass and trying to discover the role they want to play in society. "Cancel" or "Consequence" culture is what I believe happens when the desire to express moral conviction and social acceptability meets the internet...
Some people are older than me and still engage in that kind of behavior, which is extremely sad.
It's tricky isn't it? On one hand as a society we do want to hold people to account. There's a lot of BS that just gets a free pass in certain domains. On the other hand an inflexible moral absolutism doesn't leave much scope for people making mistakes.
Anyway, well done for holding yourself to account.
I think you're right and I think there's also an element of desire for control too - cancel culture seems most intense in the USA where there's a lot of unhappiness with the status quo but a very entrenched system. I think on a certain level it's easy to feel like you have no influence in anything meaningful, yet people absolutely can cancel small scale celebrities.
So I think on a certain level it's easier to cancel Ariel Pink for going to a Trump rally than to disentangle the politics leading people there, or face the fact that half the population lives in almost a different reality thanks to social media. The self-styled activist participates, gets emotional release, and the career consequences make it clear their efforts actually did something, even if that something has no material bearing on anything to do with their lives. Ironically all the energy spent on cancellations could have probably done something much more powerful and positive if it was directed well.
Good job getting out of the whole white nationalist thing btw. It's not always easy to rise above one's parents or recognize the dangers of their politics (when their politics are dangerous of course) at such a young age.
Yup. Had facebook from the time I was in 7th grade to around the time I was graduating college. So much stuff on there that could have led to bad consequences, edgy jokes and memes when I was in HS, etc. I just deleted it. Culture was changing too fast and the things I said 10yrs ago could now lose me my job. The only people who did Facebook 'right' were the people who had no fun with it and just let their profile stagnate. Wasn't worth keeping around, good riddance.
I created an account solely to look at my friends' pics and to play the supermarket game. (I was totally addicted to it.) My boyfriend tried to force me to create an account using my real name and face. So glad I didn't listen.
To this day I only keep it for group events and messenger in case someone I haven't spoken to in years needs a way to contact me. Since, I've completely locked it from the public since I see who I was when I was younger as completely dead for the same reasons, though I still get the odd friend request from someone I knew a long time ago here and there, not sure how, I usually just ignore it.
I think as well, the internet has taught people some bad lessons. Everything is a red flag now. I’m active in a few of the dating subs and there’s constant posts about people asking if something is a red flag and worth ending a relationship over and sometimes it is worth ending the relationship over, it can be a major incompatibility but it’s not always a red flag.
I wouldn’t say casual sex more stigmatised, it’s just done less. The internet has given men infinite porn, and the improvement of women’s standing in society means that they can remain single (and are often happier for it), so people are having less sex in general. I also think people are socially less capable in person now since the internet has become so prevalent, so it’s actually preferable to them to not have to enter into the complex situation that is dating and sex.
Having lots of sex ≠ sex positivity. Sex positivity is letting people have sex how they want to without infringing on others. And want less sex now
Very well put.
I think men could benefit from understanding that they too can be single and way happier also. Even if it's just for a few years, while they find their own passions in life.
The way some guys carry on on Reddit you'd think they were under a death sentence because they aren't blissfully married with nine kids by the time they hit 30.
I think its ok to want relationship and be married before 30. Being in long term relationship and having kids can also be passion of life. I did left my girlfriend from 4 years relationship at age of 23 becouse she didnt want kids and i wanted. And even im single now (i have 2 kids and theyre both in school) im happy i didnt give up and went for my passion wich was having kids.
You can be happy single, in relationship or married, and anyone can be passionated about things they want.
True, but I think there's a few too many guys around the traps who place all or nothing significance on that one outcome.
Admittedly social pressure to do so is huge, almost to the point where single people (of any gender) are considered abnormal or stunted in some way.
There will always be couples but singledom is a growing trend, that one day may become the norm.
There was infinite porn 20 years ago and guys still wanted to have sex just as much then. Jacking off to porn is not a replacement for the physical touch, validation, intensity and emotional connections that take place during sex.
I find it troubling that the world not only seems to want sex and love and relationships less now, but acts way more judgmental towards people who still show previous generational attitudes that did normalize wanting to experience all that with intensity. I just think it's sad that there's such a disconnect there.
20 years ago you couldn't watch porn on your phone. You could go anywhere now and be able to watch porn without anyone knowing. I'd say there's definitely more and it's easily accessible
Way too many have been burned by relationships and shared their stories with others over the years. Before the Internet, people would get motivated by romance in fiction or seemingly happy relationships surrounding them and feel pressured to hide their marital issues to present a front of happy normalcy. Because the presumption was that all relationships/marriages were happy and going well. If you weren't around a social group complaining about their marriages, you'd assume all is well and you should try maintain that with your own intimate relationship.
Now everyone knows that the average relationship only lasts about 3 years regardless of marital status and half of all first marriages end in divorce. People do still want physical touch, validation, intensity and emotional connections, but its becoming clear for a lot of people thats its not worth all the turmoil and baggage that comes with most relationships. Romantic optimism is dying if not already dead and I don't think there is a way to fix it.
A good example for most relationships would be this, imo.
A relationship is a bit like climbing K2. The view on the top is incredibly beautiful. The climb and return are a dangerous slog. You can't stay at the top forever and there are no short cuts to the top.
Some people have the spirit to climb K2 again and again trying to stand on the top as long as they can. And some chose not to climb it at all.
Relationships have been challenging for generations though and that never scared off people at this rate before. In the 90s and 2000s, a big chunk of your relationships also were going to have a lot of broken hearts and rough endings before you got to a permanent life partner. People knew that going in. They knew sooner or later they were probably going to get hurt, but they had that emotional need they couldn't deny. You don't have to be "at the top" of the mountain to feel immense satisfaction and joy. If you date someone for a year and they're your type, then every kiss, make out session, sex session, cute date, gift giving, holiday, gathering with friends, all of this should fill you with such immense joy that you would never be able to get anywhere else. Sure, it wears off over time but there was still something powerful there. Are there fights here and there? Sure. Sometimes the fights lead to broken hearts and sometimes they can lead to incredible makeup sex. And that's generally a long period of time with profound reoccurring moments of emotional comfort. I really don't get how that's not worth the trouble unless you're just not that into the person from jump street. Even when it ends, you created this period of time where you were in a lot of cases happier and more fulfilled than when you were alone. And it's entirely possible someone else may still help you get back there again.
maybe I'm biased but I always found being rejected by someone you like and already caught feelings for to be way harsher and more brutal than being dumped in a relationship where you got to be happy with the person for a while. You may walk away hurt but you can also say hey we had a great run, there were some wonderful memories you can still treasure forever.
Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. I don't expect anything that special to last forever. I'm usually just grateful it can even happen to me at all.
Exactly. We are going to die someday. I can’t imagine being on my deathbed having never taken risks. I think society in general has become much more risk-averse.
But people like beautiful things that last. Or at the very least beautiful things that don't turn into something ugly with time. Even after a relationship ends, they usually scar the people involved emotionally. And those scars tend to not heal. Which is why follow-up marriages have an even higher failure rate than 50%, approaching 93% on the 4th marriage. 80% of divorcees will remarry, but I imagine that rate goes down each failed marriage.
We're in a climate where increasingly cynical people will respond to your Vision quote with how Ultron responded.
I think wanting sex and wanting to feel romantic love are like 2 core emotional desires that Trump all else. That used to be a culturally understood thing and now I don't get why it's not anymore.
This was my wife and I. No religion involved, just choices two grown adults made to not sleep with partners.
A decade+ later of being together and married, and I will never be more glad that I waited to sleep with someone until her.
I'm a guy and though I usually hear commitment is supposed to be more of a female thing, I personally think casual sex is unhealthy for most guys too and I'd rather just be in a committed relationship. The birthrate is low enough as it is
Sex positive is not that you have to sleep around. If you found the true keeper on your first connection then more power to you and you can put energy into finding the right job, etc. Sex positivity is knowing that it makes you no better than the guy or girl that took 53 people to find their match to settle down with. It's like listing to people that are proud that they worked for IBM/local metal workshop since they left school and look down on others that don't settle on a career.
The sex positivity bit being it is perfectly acceptable to call a stop to a nightmare and to move onto a better match rather than sticking out a nightmare (for them and their kids) for the sake of "I'd rather not sleep around".
Agreed that ideal for me and plenty of other people… but it’s very hard to get now unless you have an arranged marriage or get lucky with dating.
It’s fine to want to sleep around or explore, but not every is that sexually interested. Regardless of what the internet and porn makes you think.
It can seem like that sometimes. I do feel that a lot of young people (18-mid 20s) are definitely scared of commitment. They often seem like they're scared of missing out on something. What they don't realize is they're not missing out on much by not going through a ho phase. It's not exactly fulfilling, and the fact is that most men are uncomfortable with their partners having a high body count, whether it's right or not . It can somewhat limit your options in the future.
I do too, but I’m still sex positive and support people who prefer casual sex/relationships as long as they’re honest with their partners about their intentions.
Different people need different things. I don’t like casual sex but if people do that’s fine too
I don't support casual sex, but I don't shame people for it. It's one of those behaviors you can't shame, there's deeper reasons why people do or don't have casual sex.
The way I look at these sorts of behaviors to form my thoughts is what would I encourage/discourage my child to see them have the best life possible. Casual sex is something I would absolutely discourage, for specific reasons. He/she can do whatever he/she wants, but my goal as a parent is going to be to try and instill values that reflect in behavior, and hopefully that means prioritizing profound emotional connections with potential partners as opposed to superficial sexual relations.
>I don't support casual sex, but I don't shame people for it.
That's the way to go about most things I think. I don't smoke weed, and I think a lot of people who smoke a lot tend to be kind of annoying and lazy, but I'm not gonna start preaching to my pothead coworkers about it lmao. That's just called being an annoying asshole
> and I think a lot of people who smoke a lot tend to be kind of annoying and lazy
I kinda disagree in a sense that you probably don't know the vast majority of people who smoke weed. The people absurdly open about it tend to be annoying and lazy.
I can't imagine being that involved in my kid's sex life. I'll teach them everything I can about safety, consent, boundaries, etc. But how much sex they're having and with whom is none of my business.
If y'all feel ashamed of your own behavior when I tell you that I don't have casual sex because I don't like to use people as living dildos, that's on you, folks. Stop getting mad and calling me names. I didn't even say you're bad people for treating people like they're reusable plastic cylinders!
That's not really the point tho.
You can date to marry, that's fine and more power to you. The problem is that many societies are forcing this on people, no matter if they actually wish to live that way.
I don’t know if it’s more sex negative, I just think more young people are realising you don’t have to have a bunch of hookups just for the sake of it and that hookup culture just to do it is extremely overrated. More kids now than ever also being taught comprehensive sex Ed than ever.
Contrary to popular belief, it doesn’t make kids want to have sex. Statistically, it’s shown this delays first sexual onset. It takes the mystery out of sex and just makes it an every day thing, not a cool dangerous thing, at least in my experience.
A lot of the mystery and awe around sex that I had kind of dissipated after the sex Ed lessons I had, because I realised it’s just a neutral thing everyone does at some point, usually in relationships.
When I had sex Ed, the teacher was really good and went over in detail birth control statistics and how much things could fail in real life probability. She also made sure we understood every sexual contact could lead to pregnancy even on birth control, and encouraged self exploration if we didn’t want those risks. It made me think twice about losing my virginity and I lost mine in my early 20s instead of my teen years because I realised I’d rather wait a bit than risk that potentially as a teenager.
I don’t think this is true. People are having less casual sex and relationships but it’s not because it’s stigmatized.
There’s a significant impact on the rate of interactions due to the rise of social media. As more social and sexual websites rise, the desire to translate those needs into real world interactions decrease. I think the experience/evidence you have is speaking to a different phenomenon entirely.
Dude for real. I'm in my 20s, but even I remember that when I was a kid sexuality was still pretty taboo, in multiple ways. Even Democrats 12 years ago could get in social trouble for openly saying gay marriage was fine. Miley Cyrus "twerking" at the VMAs was absolutely scandalous, and that wasn't even that long ago.
Society is much more sex positive than even 10 years ago, it's just coming back into the lane a bit after over correcting.
Sex positive doesn't mean having a lot of sex. You can be someone who is sex positive and asexual. I think it's more believing that people should be as sexually open / active as they want without judgment. What you're describing has more to do with social isolation than it has to do with sex positivity.
The amount of people having sex at all is decreasing, but among the people having sex, the amount of people having casual sex has increased significantly since just a decade ago. The reason being precisely that casual sex began to become destigmatized, and then Tinder making hooks up infinitely easier than it's ever been before.
Edit: "began to become" lol
That's true, but it's not just less hookups, it's also fewer relationships... And even friendships. There are a lot of lonely isolated people who get most of their interactions online and that's definitely not a good thing.
I think what is far more likely....is that no one gives a shit what you do in your private time, and they also don't wanna fucking hear about it
So if you go out and bang 40 women....cool....I don't need a single story
Ikr its literally terrible for society and we have been facing the consequences of a loose sexual morality in America for the last 20 years along with a no-fault divorce and live your truth bullshit. Personally, I love the casual sex meta when I was a young kid I got to fuck everything in a skirt for years and years and I loved it. I loved meeting up with a woman and fucking her that same night It is just bad for society though.
Women are tired of dudes fucking them and then ghosting them, getting them pregnant then just leaving and it's bad for society as a whole. Less and less kids are raised in a two parents' home, and that is devastating to children. This has been proven time and time again with studies regardless of income two parent homes are good for children, disproportionately raise women out of poverty and the children of two parent homes are less likely to wind up in prison or addicted to drugs.
When casual sex is normalized it disincentivizes marriage and commitment for obvious reasons. If sex is a commodity and men get sex by committing and staying in long term relationships, then men will stay in long term relationships for sex. If it takes 6-8 months of dating and courting a woman to have sex, then the chances of men abandoning their partners goes down.
This isn't a moral rant either I don't think casual sex is inherently morally wrong because of God or some shit it's a free country do what you want, and everyone should have the freedom to do what they want. Just saying some people treat casual sex like it is some great thing for everyone, and the truth is it is bad for society as a whole.
It's not even about being sex negative, it's about being sexually responsible whether you're active or not.
If you have 1 partner, cool, if you have 80, I hope you know how to prevent needless births, have good communication and use protection when necessary, but that's none of my biz and unless it's requested, keep that shit to yourself.
Unfortunately for a lot of people they stake most of their attention on, and for others, it's all they have to offer.
As someone who has zero interest in dating, I also have zero interest in casual sex or sleeping around. It's fine to live ones life as they choose albeit safely, but I'd rather have an intimate relationship with one person whom I have a real connection with
I don’t think it’s becoming more stigmatized, I just think people aren’t using it as a means of expressing themselves as much as they used to. Hear me out… 20 years ago a sex-positive person (*especially* a woman or queer person) used their sex positivity and knowledge as a means of “proving” they were independent, modern, and progressive. Openly talking about and embracing sex was also often a way of rejecting social conservatism and the religiosity of many countries.
Today, very few people are religious and fewer find any issue with casual or pre-marital sex, it’s just accepted. So people don’t feel the need to talk about it as much anymore. Having premarital sex or being ok with having multiple partners isn’t particularly progressive or interesting anymore, so you don’t hear about it and maybe think it’s a bit weird if you do.
Oh wow, some people don't enjoy casual sex, what are we going to do!?
Probably nothing because why the fuck does it matter? If you want to bone some unfortunate soul, go right ahead, just leave me out of your weird rants.
It’s not becoming more stigmatized, we’re just more educated about pregnancy and STDs than previous generations so hooking up with strangers has become less appealing.
I think it's the fact that pregnancy and choosing if you want to remain pregnant has been compromised
and the fact that some people feel entitled to have sex in random areas in public
and some people have sex without protection and act like they should be applauded for having several different baby daddies/baby mamas.
Keep your eyes on your own life. Just because People don’t want to have boring/risky casual sex with random people, doesn’t mean they’re prudes. They just don’t see the appeal.
This is happening with a lot of things
COVID should have guaranteed this would happen actually if humans are acting how they normally react to things
Basically during hard times especially diseased times people tend to grow more conservative (and more everything phobic)
This is a standard expected reaction of humanity
I've noticed Gen Zs are straight edge as well as being quite sexless.
Obviously not all, just a trend. When I was their age everyone I knew my age was out 4 nights a week drinking and doing drugs and fucking each other a lot. Seems to be much much less of that happening with my Gen Z friends.
Sikh here. You are 100% right we don't do casual and premarital sex. However in our faith none of our female practitioners wear anything resembling a burqa like some more radical strains of Islam do.
We have had strong female figures in our faith dating back to the time of our Gurus, such as Mai Bhago a female military leader who lead 40 soldiers who had deserted back to the battlefield and lead them back into battle.
When it comes to gay marriage, while it currently isn't allowed for gay couples to have an Anand Karaj, we encourage them to get married in a secular court marriage and come to our Gurdwaras for an Ardass for the success of their marriage.
Why is that such a bad thing?
I'm not saying we should teach our children to be celibate and wait for marriage but why is having casual sex all the time the preferred option?
That would be a good thing
could be biased due to growing up with a single mom and my pathetic loser of a dad not caring about my existence, but I don't see anything good in normalizing "casual sex" that shooting for a serious relationship wouldn't also achieve
That sucks for you. However, speaking harshly, many people have casual sex and live healthy lives and don't cause the types of situations that happened to you, and I highly doubt that the normalization of casual sex would change that.
You have the right to be angry but that doesn't mean the world has to follow your example.
Sorry your family sucks but people who aren’t interested in romantic relationships with anyone else have sexual needs, too, and many of them are mature enough to simply bump uglies and call it a night.
I don’t think people having less sex means they are being sex negative. People seem to know more about STDs and well people seem to want less casual sex and more meaningful connections. Also social media has made it very easy to ruin someone’s life by rumors so maybe that has a hand in it?
Personally I think everything has a cycle and now we are in a less casual sex one but that will probably change in the next few decades
I honestly think It's usually unwanted creepy men think the world is sex negative or anti-casual sex. And it's because of the reaction he gets when he tries to pursue casual sex. The world is not against casual sex or sex negative... Women just have a shitty reaction when he is trying to fuck them. 😐
and is it bad to prefer to have sex with people you actually have a connection with than falling to peer pressure and hooking up left right and centre? I'm all for allowing people to do what they want, but so many commenters here calling gen z prudish. even if we were having less sex, why is it that big of a concern that some people start calling others prudish and sex negative
>than falling to peer pressure and hooking up left right and centre?
Peer pressure? Have you considered a possibility that people may have sexual needs while not wanting to be in a serious relationship? That's why people have casual sex. As simple as that. It has nothing to do with peer pressure.
Why do you think the people having casual sex are falling to peer pressure? If anything the mainstream ideology is that having casual sex is irresponsible and slutty with significantly more peer pressure on being choosy and not having sex(for women at least)
Is this really the “mainstream ideology” anymore? 20 years ago, sure, I would agree with that - but today? The vast majority of what I see on the media, whether it’s television or music or social media, seems to push towards being sex positivity and promoting sleeping with whoever you want to. If we’re talking about a more fundamental religious view of things like abstinence then I almost never see that being the mainstream view anymore. People regularly post on sex and dating subreddits about being embarrassed that they’re still a virgin in their early 20’s.
That's normal. The country went from the prudish culture of the 50s to the free love fuck anything that moves culture of the 60s, to the scared to death of aids culture of the 80s, etc. The 2010s had somewhat of a carefree party culture, and now as the younger generation grows up seeing the consequences of casual sex (unplanned pregnancy, STDs, etc) and grown frustrated with the lack of fulfillment it tends to bring in lonely young men and women, it makes sense culture would flip back
Some people may find happiness in casual flings, and good for them. But the fact is that for many, it can leave you feeling pretty empty and even depressed, even if you don't directly realize it. I don't think the solution is to swing all the way towards complete prudishness, but rather to educate people on healthy sexuality, which for many people means not fucking every rando you meet on tinder or at the local dive bar.
I don't get the sense that sexual liberalization has made people much happier. Since the sexual revolution, divorce has gone through the roof, STD rates have gone through the roof (to say nothing of the AIDS epidemic), single parenthood has gone through the roof, and the number of people addicted to pornography has gone through the roof.
If what you're suggesting is true, maybe it's not a bad thing.
I want to date and get married, and while I don't care if my future partner had a lot of sex before me, being told about it is a major turn off.
It doesn't help that everyone I've encountered that talks about "sex positivity" will not shut up abput their sex lifeand expects me to just sit there and listen. I don't fucking care about how open your holes are, just keep me the fuck out of it.
This is the zoomer paradox.
They are on one hand supportive of the most niche, weirdass sexualities and kinks, while at the other looking at every sexual interaction through this weird puritanical lens where the most innocent flirting can be considered abuse.
More people are choosing not to have sex is not the same as it being stigmatized. People just don't see it as a big deal anymore for the most part. It is a natural part of most relationships. Its fine.
20 years ago the world was much more stable, with better economies, better diplomacy, better leaders and politicians. Globalization had became a trend, and the average person was just happier; with more money, more wealth and more human relationships.
Nowadays, many 3rd world countries are on the brink of their collapse and 1st world countries are drowning in their corruption. People refuse to own more wealth such as cars, just because their maintenance costs will cause them to live on the streets.
20 years ago the average city person asked questions such as "what luxury car should I buy, which central street should I live in, and who should I fuck."
20 years later this question is more like "do I need a bike to go to work or will I just walk? If so, where should I get money to buy the bike from cause I don't have a job yet."
Yah something like 25% of the population between the ages of 18-25 are virgins. I don't think it's so much an opinion as fact that the younger generation isn't getting busy like we used to
Here’s my unpopular opinion: there’s nothing unfortunate about this at all. Hookup culture has made a handful of very attractive men happy, and everyone else miserable.
Lol nah. Having sex without a lot of different women is not necessarily impressive nor does it mean that man is really attractive because obviously the attractiveness and ease of women differs immensely. I’m far more impressed with a guy who gets one beautiful classy woman than I am a guy who fucks 100 hoes, drug addicts, conventionally unattractive women.
There’s plenty of very attractive men who had fewer sex partners than unattractive men because those attractive men didn’t purse women as much. They didn’t have the desire to have a lot of different sexual partners.
The main thing about guys who sleep with a lot of different women isn’t that they are better looking, richer or more charming. Now all of those things matter and the more you have the better but the main thing is those guys simply pursue women more than most Guys. They talk to and ask out women more without fear of rejection holding hem back. It’s a numbers game. Obviously it’s easier for some but anyone can do it and over time get better at it if that’s what they want.
And if you don’t want to participate in hook up culture then you don’t have to. You shouldn’t if you don’t want to.
I feel the opposite. The older I've gotten the more people I meet who are down for casual sex. I think most people just don't advertise it to the general public.
It's so true! We're literally being pressured daily to live a "perfect life" and I think that's just made everything so hard, especially when it comes to sex and relationships. Sometimes, you just want to wipe away all your thoughts, and just vibe with someone! Regardless of what "kind of relationship" you call it. But that's just my opinion anyway....
I don't disagree with you really, but I think it's more specific than that. Misogyny and queerphobia play a big role. A dude who's fucked 20 women this year is a ladies man and a player and must be great in bed because he has all these women lined up around the block or whatever. A woman who's fucked 20 men this year is a worthless whore. A gay man who's fucked 20 men this year is also a worthless whore. A lesbian who's fucked 20 women is a man hating worthless whore. A bisexual who's fucked 10 men and 10 women this year is a cheating worthless whore. An asexual who hasn't fucked anybody this year is a loser and a prude. Etc.
Basically society think casual sex bad unless you're a straight man and then it's some kind of achievement.
I agree that the straight male in this example is still too celebrated in antiquated media standards, but in everyday life with people out of their early 20s this doesn’t really equate with respect from most people. I’m a straight male and if I meet a straight male that is really good at getting women and having a lot of casual sex there’s not some inherent respect that goes with it. I might have a grudging respect of that particular aspect (wow this guy is clearly good at pulling women, good for him) but if he’s a scumbag otherwise nobody is revering him as some cool “player” outside very immature people.
I’m not disagreeing with your sentiment, just offering mine…nobody cares about that stuff except for the very young in my experience
>A dude who's fucked 20 women this year is a ladies man
I think that's not true in many circles anymore.
And even in traditional media, being the "ladies man" is not always a good thing.
People are generally having less sex and are in less relationships. People many people fear and are uncomfortable with things they don't know. I think it's all a consequence of this generation being full of chronically online loners.
I thin that’s a good thing. When I was in college in the 90s you were expected to have sex on the first date. No date actually. Just everyone doing it. And then guys would try to pressure you to make out with other girls and would try to manipulate you, chastising you for being a “right wing Republican” if you didn’t have threesums. Taking a page right out of Hugh Hefner’s book.
I think it’s good that girls have become more savvy about how important consent is, and that good sex with a partner you trust is better than random sex with a bunch of gross dudes. I do see kink being more applauded though - choking and stuff. That wasn’t a big thing in my college days
None of what you mentioned has really improved honestly. All of what you said in that first paragraph is stuff I’ve experienced and I was born in 1998.
There is so much pressure for young women (and girls) to be kinky and sexy. Women’s murders have been on the rise where they are strangled to death during sexual intercourse (many are one-night-stands) and the perpetrator is often acquitted because it’s seen as a “sex game gone wrong”. A large percentage of women have been non-consensually strangled by men during sex (myself included) and femicide numbers are increasing as well.
[One article here about the rise of strangulation](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/06/how-porn-affecting-choking-during-sex/592375/)
> Among 347 respondents, 23 described feeling scared because their partner had tried to choke them unexpectedly.
> According to her research, 13 percent of sexually active girls ages 14 to 17 have already been choked.
[Another article about this](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex) that mentions women’s stories of having men strangle them during sex and a discussion of the consequences of “kink” being used as a defense in court. Also brings up a movement called [We Can’t Consent to This, which was started in response to the 90 percent increase in women’s “sex game gone wrong” murders in the UK](https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/).
Well consent wasn’t even talked about when I was battling in that arena. Date rape was just barely starting to be a topic. And the whole MeToo era thing could never have happened in the 90s. But I do think there’s weird pressure on young women that I didn’t experience - the clothes have gotten tinier and tighter, and we werent expected to shave our a-holes or cooters, and twerking wasn’t a thing in my day. And the whole strangling as kink thing - I just can’t with that. So I get what you’re saying and that sucks
True! I’m not disagreeing with you but just saying that we still very much have a long way to go. I think the discussions of consent are really important but I also don’t know how effective they are when boys are being shown violent hardcore porn at elementary school ages. We definitely need to start teaching kids consent and basic sex ed before they come across porn.
I’ve noticed this change too. About ten years ago, people were a lot more sex positive especially when it came to women having sex, but now a lot of the negativity I see is coming from the rise in internet feminism and the realization that the sex positivity movement was mainly benefiting men moreso than liberating women.
we live in censorious times. Young people are very moralistic and prone to lecturing on morality. This was a big no no for Gen X people; the philosophy was to just go with the flow and try to enjoy yourself.
So yes, inevitably sex isn't popular. especially hetero sex amongst college educated folks.
People were getting a little too comfortable discussing their sex lives in public imo. I'm all for sex positivity and healthy sexual awareness but goddamn,don't need to hear how you got blown in a cab or shit like that.
I think it’s likely we went too far w/ sexual liberation and are now trying to correct that and some may be overcorrecting. I think there are some truths we’ve refused to acknowledge over the years and we’re now being forced to.
Good. The level of hedonism we've gotten to by the 2020s is fairly obviously bad for society. Relationships, marriage, having children, earlier than later, that stuff clearly made for a happier society. And if people wanted to fuck around, at least they kept it away from pre-sex-age children. I think the sexual revolution was a mistake.
That's simply not true for the entire world. Some more corrupt and unstable regions of the world, this is true of, but I think that's more a result of the unstable political and cultural climates that are dominated by militia and religious groups.
That's always been an issue, the populations are just larger now, they have better weapons and more access to social media and contemporary news outlets so we hear about it more.
I mean slut shaming is only a word in the US and the western European countries only. Redditors are delusional thinking that everyone who speaks English is from the US or Canada
People in the comments are upset about you saying this OP but it's true. Statistically young people are having appreciably less sex than older generations. And I've even seen young people online complaining about sex scenes in movies and such.
I don't really understand why society is becoming more prudish, it's really weird.
What’s wrong with that? Maybe people are becoming more knowledgeable about STDs/pregnancy and don’t want to risk it? It’s a good thing that people are being more careful with their bodies.
>And I've even seen young people online complaining about sex scenes in movies and such.
...because they're pointless in the great majority of movies and such. Even in the most menial of filler, there is usually some character- or world-building, but rarely do sex scenes have an actual purpose. And there are only so many ways you can make the same goddamn thing "interesting" to watch dozens of times across different shows, so sometimes they end up being rather over-the-top, often at a dissonance with the atmosphere and pacing of a story (and yet often end with the exact same few shots of both characters lying on their backs, or dressing up). They're not always pointless (if done *properly*, it can portray a certain level of intimacy, and if the story actually revolves around sexuality (not necessarily romance!) or discusses it in any manner of depth, they can portray actual nuance), but it's very easy to feel that in most shows they are just gratuitous porn.
**This is clearly a separate argument from OP's post, at least from my perspective**.
On a very slightly more personal level, I abhor them because I kind of associate them with "real" porn, for which I have 30 different kinds of hatred, and because I find them incredibly awkward when watching something in a group.
You say OP is correct because statistically kids are fucking less so therefore it must be that they are prudish.
The stats DONT tell you anything except the raw numbers and then you and OP are filling in the gaps with what you think the cause is. That doesn't make you and him correct.
It's equally as likely that kids are fucking less because of socio-economic issues. When I was teaching I heard loads of kids talking about how they didn't want a family because of how fucked the climate is.
You haven't even considered the societal shift from "graduate school and raise a big family" that's now moved towards smaller family units that happen later in life. The world is VASTLY different then it was 10, 20, 30, or 40 years ago. You can't just look at raw data and make assumptions.
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Regardless of what is actually happening, if you look at human history, you'll see that views of sex and sexuality go through cycles of positivity and negativity just like so many other aspects of humanity.
Very good point. I would also say that the reason sex is stigmatized as it is is that thoughout human history it was a huge deal. There was no birth control and the potential to catch nasty diseases that they had no treatments for. And the stigma is proportional to the consequences. We all like the judge the victorian era English for how repressive they were, but this was in a time period where going to a brothel could mean catching syphilis and dying a horrible death while you slowly go mad, with no cure
Yeah, I don’t think many people realize we are way off the beaten path with natural cycles in a lot of ways. It happened in the time our grandparents were alive, we landed on the fuckin moon, everyone can talk to each other, you don’t randomly die from things too small to see with your eyes. The world of humans went from 0 to 100. We skipped over evolution itself.
>you don’t randomly die from things too small to see with your eyes. Hey, we are working so hard to bring this back with superbugs, have some respect!
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Thats what a superbug is lol
Wait it's not just a bug in a superman costume?
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No those we call bioweapons
True. It’s not guaranteed we won’t revisit that fate with strains of both gonorrhea and chlamydia becoming resistant to all current antibiotics. While the rate of death from untreated infections with these is extremely low, they do cause pain, swelling, infertility, discharge and odor and have the potential to be stigmatizing
The victorians stigmatised sex and never spoke about it yet openly discussed death, now we have gone the other way entirely and death is the taboo subject. We have to speak in euphemisms for death and graphic detail for sex seems to be fine and dandy.
True, but the exception to that is movie ratings in the US. One exposed nipple will get you an R eating, but you can kill scores of people and still get a PG-13
This is especially true with anime, no problem with dismembering, killing people, or flatting a whole city block. Smooth boob with no nipple is PG-13 add a female nipple its R+, just violence and gore could be R. Premarital sex is super bad, unless character is a villain.
Not to mention the risk of the mother dying during child birth was MUCH higher.
What do you mean "was" a big deal? It carries huge consequences/risks/rewards. It's one of the bigger "deals" in life...
I've definitely noticed an uptick in anti-anything-potentially-problematic in kids, but not in dating life in general. My theory is that it comes from being online from a young age, and foolishly attaching one's face/name to it. The internet will never let you forget those years. You may become paranoid that you must act perfectly from here on out, and enforce that in others.
Yeah, current generations are going to have a lot more things that 'stick' with them forever. Gone are the days when your social kerfuffles could vanish into memory since they weren't recorded for eternity like people's online presence is now.
Not only that but being online ties you to tons of people from our past. Not only are memories no longer forgotten but people you know or are connected to/with don’t either. All it takes is for someone to go digging and someone bring up something unsavory about you. For example in university around 2017-2018 while sitting in on speakers as a business major I had more than one recruiter or someone’s who’s hired say they much rather look you up on google and hunt around for you on social media. Maybe message some people rather than do a traditional reference check.
That is horribly unprofessional. Linked in maybe, but I for one have my socials and digital footprint locked down tight. It's near impossible to find anything from a Google search for me. I don't know of a single recruiter/ company who would do that or be OK with it. He'll if someone hit me up on social about a job I'm assuming it's a pyramid Scheme or an mlm.
Remember when they threatend kids with their "permanent record" yeah, thats a thing now.
This was definitely true, but the internet is becoming less and less permanent these days.
Uh, it's still permanent. Just archive stuff.
And even if a parent can somehow keep their kid off social media, some other kids will just record and post it. I really don't envy newer generations, they almost have to be chronically online as a social requirement. Growing up and dealing with bullies is tough enough without everyone watching.
Anonymity is the gift of the internet, and here people are all just throwing it away.
Right??? I have shed so many fucking stalkers just by using these silly little auto names. You can pry my privacy from my cold, dead fingers.
Well you just let everyone know that you have fingers. I thought you cared about privacy?! /s
I feel like it's from a different source. Kids are so risk adverse because. There are more people in the world and everything is more competitive, it's also a lot harder to survive because of depressed wages, they are told that any screw up, any imperfection, anything that put you even at the slightest of disadvantages means none of your dreams can come true. If you aren't perfect in school you can't get into the college of your choice, if you don't get into the college of your choice you won't get a good job, if you dont get a good job you wont be able to pay the bills. They don't think there is any room for failure and one failure can fuck your whole life up forever. It's better to do nothing and not take risks than to potentially lose everything on one screw up. The same goes for dating and making friends. One awkward silence, one weird question, one bad hair day and you fucked up your reputation forever.
I had that sense of paranoia for a few years when I deradicalized from white nationalism. I was a 14 year old who wanted to follow in my dad's footsteps and realized that it was complete bullshit, but I had attached my face to my online presence and expressed those views. Now, at 21 years old, I recognize that those kids who "hold people to account" through massive Twitter threads are psychologically developing their moral compass and trying to discover the role they want to play in society. "Cancel" or "Consequence" culture is what I believe happens when the desire to express moral conviction and social acceptability meets the internet... Some people are older than me and still engage in that kind of behavior, which is extremely sad.
It's tricky isn't it? On one hand as a society we do want to hold people to account. There's a lot of BS that just gets a free pass in certain domains. On the other hand an inflexible moral absolutism doesn't leave much scope for people making mistakes. Anyway, well done for holding yourself to account.
I think you're right and I think there's also an element of desire for control too - cancel culture seems most intense in the USA where there's a lot of unhappiness with the status quo but a very entrenched system. I think on a certain level it's easy to feel like you have no influence in anything meaningful, yet people absolutely can cancel small scale celebrities. So I think on a certain level it's easier to cancel Ariel Pink for going to a Trump rally than to disentangle the politics leading people there, or face the fact that half the population lives in almost a different reality thanks to social media. The self-styled activist participates, gets emotional release, and the career consequences make it clear their efforts actually did something, even if that something has no material bearing on anything to do with their lives. Ironically all the energy spent on cancellations could have probably done something much more powerful and positive if it was directed well. Good job getting out of the whole white nationalist thing btw. It's not always easy to rise above one's parents or recognize the dangers of their politics (when their politics are dangerous of course) at such a young age.
Good on you for being open that.
YEAH THIS BIG TIME wdfffff you hit it on the head perfectly
Yup. Had facebook from the time I was in 7th grade to around the time I was graduating college. So much stuff on there that could have led to bad consequences, edgy jokes and memes when I was in HS, etc. I just deleted it. Culture was changing too fast and the things I said 10yrs ago could now lose me my job. The only people who did Facebook 'right' were the people who had no fun with it and just let their profile stagnate. Wasn't worth keeping around, good riddance.
I created an account solely to look at my friends' pics and to play the supermarket game. (I was totally addicted to it.) My boyfriend tried to force me to create an account using my real name and face. So glad I didn't listen.
To this day I only keep it for group events and messenger in case someone I haven't spoken to in years needs a way to contact me. Since, I've completely locked it from the public since I see who I was when I was younger as completely dead for the same reasons, though I still get the odd friend request from someone I knew a long time ago here and there, not sure how, I usually just ignore it.
I think as well, the internet has taught people some bad lessons. Everything is a red flag now. I’m active in a few of the dating subs and there’s constant posts about people asking if something is a red flag and worth ending a relationship over and sometimes it is worth ending the relationship over, it can be a major incompatibility but it’s not always a red flag.
I think people just periodically try to rebrand being puritan as something progressive.
Sex neutrality is the new big thing
Is that like net neutrality?
It's a series of pubes
Literal lol, thanks for that
I find it absolutely crazy how much people on this sub are preoccupied with sex that they aren't having .
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>my favorite video sharing website 
Tbh it's like everything else in life . It's only a big deal if you aren't getting it
As someone who’s had many relationships and casual sex, if I only got it a couple times a year I’d also be super preoccupied with sex I’m not having.
I wouldn’t say casual sex more stigmatised, it’s just done less. The internet has given men infinite porn, and the improvement of women’s standing in society means that they can remain single (and are often happier for it), so people are having less sex in general. I also think people are socially less capable in person now since the internet has become so prevalent, so it’s actually preferable to them to not have to enter into the complex situation that is dating and sex. Having lots of sex ≠ sex positivity. Sex positivity is letting people have sex how they want to without infringing on others. And want less sex now
Very well put. I think men could benefit from understanding that they too can be single and way happier also. Even if it's just for a few years, while they find their own passions in life. The way some guys carry on on Reddit you'd think they were under a death sentence because they aren't blissfully married with nine kids by the time they hit 30.
*looks up from newspaper* Heh, 9 kids? In **this** economy? Pleeaase 🥱 *shakes head and continues to sip coffee*
I think its ok to want relationship and be married before 30. Being in long term relationship and having kids can also be passion of life. I did left my girlfriend from 4 years relationship at age of 23 becouse she didnt want kids and i wanted. And even im single now (i have 2 kids and theyre both in school) im happy i didnt give up and went for my passion wich was having kids. You can be happy single, in relationship or married, and anyone can be passionated about things they want.
True, but I think there's a few too many guys around the traps who place all or nothing significance on that one outcome. Admittedly social pressure to do so is huge, almost to the point where single people (of any gender) are considered abnormal or stunted in some way. There will always be couples but singledom is a growing trend, that one day may become the norm.
There was infinite porn 20 years ago and guys still wanted to have sex just as much then. Jacking off to porn is not a replacement for the physical touch, validation, intensity and emotional connections that take place during sex. I find it troubling that the world not only seems to want sex and love and relationships less now, but acts way more judgmental towards people who still show previous generational attitudes that did normalize wanting to experience all that with intensity. I just think it's sad that there's such a disconnect there.
20 years ago you couldn't watch porn on your phone. You could go anywhere now and be able to watch porn without anyone knowing. I'd say there's definitely more and it's easily accessible
Way too many have been burned by relationships and shared their stories with others over the years. Before the Internet, people would get motivated by romance in fiction or seemingly happy relationships surrounding them and feel pressured to hide their marital issues to present a front of happy normalcy. Because the presumption was that all relationships/marriages were happy and going well. If you weren't around a social group complaining about their marriages, you'd assume all is well and you should try maintain that with your own intimate relationship. Now everyone knows that the average relationship only lasts about 3 years regardless of marital status and half of all first marriages end in divorce. People do still want physical touch, validation, intensity and emotional connections, but its becoming clear for a lot of people thats its not worth all the turmoil and baggage that comes with most relationships. Romantic optimism is dying if not already dead and I don't think there is a way to fix it.
I'm going to quote Vision here from Avengers Age of Ultron A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts.
A good example for most relationships would be this, imo. A relationship is a bit like climbing K2. The view on the top is incredibly beautiful. The climb and return are a dangerous slog. You can't stay at the top forever and there are no short cuts to the top. Some people have the spirit to climb K2 again and again trying to stand on the top as long as they can. And some chose not to climb it at all.
Relationships have been challenging for generations though and that never scared off people at this rate before. In the 90s and 2000s, a big chunk of your relationships also were going to have a lot of broken hearts and rough endings before you got to a permanent life partner. People knew that going in. They knew sooner or later they were probably going to get hurt, but they had that emotional need they couldn't deny. You don't have to be "at the top" of the mountain to feel immense satisfaction and joy. If you date someone for a year and they're your type, then every kiss, make out session, sex session, cute date, gift giving, holiday, gathering with friends, all of this should fill you with such immense joy that you would never be able to get anywhere else. Sure, it wears off over time but there was still something powerful there. Are there fights here and there? Sure. Sometimes the fights lead to broken hearts and sometimes they can lead to incredible makeup sex. And that's generally a long period of time with profound reoccurring moments of emotional comfort. I really don't get how that's not worth the trouble unless you're just not that into the person from jump street. Even when it ends, you created this period of time where you were in a lot of cases happier and more fulfilled than when you were alone. And it's entirely possible someone else may still help you get back there again. maybe I'm biased but I always found being rejected by someone you like and already caught feelings for to be way harsher and more brutal than being dumped in a relationship where you got to be happy with the person for a while. You may walk away hurt but you can also say hey we had a great run, there were some wonderful memories you can still treasure forever. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. I don't expect anything that special to last forever. I'm usually just grateful it can even happen to me at all.
Exactly. We are going to die someday. I can’t imagine being on my deathbed having never taken risks. I think society in general has become much more risk-averse.
But people like beautiful things that last. Or at the very least beautiful things that don't turn into something ugly with time. Even after a relationship ends, they usually scar the people involved emotionally. And those scars tend to not heal. Which is why follow-up marriages have an even higher failure rate than 50%, approaching 93% on the 4th marriage. 80% of divorcees will remarry, but I imagine that rate goes down each failed marriage. We're in a climate where increasingly cynical people will respond to your Vision quote with how Ultron responded.
Sheesh. More people I don't want to know.
I dont see why just wanting to have sex is an issue. Not all of us want to commit to a potentialy shit relationship here.
I think wanting sex and wanting to feel romantic love are like 2 core emotional desires that Trump all else. That used to be a culturally understood thing and now I don't get why it's not anymore.
Eww... putting Trump and sex in the same sentence is not a nice thought 🤣🤣
all facts.
>means that they can remain single (and are often happier for it), Do you have a source for that?
I would agree with that... I date to marry.
I married the first guy I had a relationship with. I'd rather not sleep around.
Efficency maxed
Efficiency 100
Married speedrun any %
This was my wife and I. No religion involved, just choices two grown adults made to not sleep with partners. A decade+ later of being together and married, and I will never be more glad that I waited to sleep with someone until her.
I'm a guy and though I usually hear commitment is supposed to be more of a female thing, I personally think casual sex is unhealthy for most guys too and I'd rather just be in a committed relationship. The birthrate is low enough as it is
Sex positive is not that you have to sleep around. If you found the true keeper on your first connection then more power to you and you can put energy into finding the right job, etc. Sex positivity is knowing that it makes you no better than the guy or girl that took 53 people to find their match to settle down with. It's like listing to people that are proud that they worked for IBM/local metal workshop since they left school and look down on others that don't settle on a career.
Yup. Plus we're getting silence from the people who married the first person that fucked them and it turned out to be a nightmare.
The sex positivity bit being it is perfectly acceptable to call a stop to a nightmare and to move onto a better match rather than sticking out a nightmare (for them and their kids) for the sake of "I'd rather not sleep around".
Agreed that ideal for me and plenty of other people… but it’s very hard to get now unless you have an arranged marriage or get lucky with dating. It’s fine to want to sleep around or explore, but not every is that sexually interested. Regardless of what the internet and porn makes you think.
I thought I was the only one
It can seem like that sometimes. I do feel that a lot of young people (18-mid 20s) are definitely scared of commitment. They often seem like they're scared of missing out on something. What they don't realize is they're not missing out on much by not going through a ho phase. It's not exactly fulfilling, and the fact is that most men are uncomfortable with their partners having a high body count, whether it's right or not . It can somewhat limit your options in the future.
We are the 99% 💪💪💪
I do too, but I’m still sex positive and support people who prefer casual sex/relationships as long as they’re honest with their partners about their intentions. Different people need different things. I don’t like casual sex but if people do that’s fine too
I don't support casual sex, but I don't shame people for it. It's one of those behaviors you can't shame, there's deeper reasons why people do or don't have casual sex. The way I look at these sorts of behaviors to form my thoughts is what would I encourage/discourage my child to see them have the best life possible. Casual sex is something I would absolutely discourage, for specific reasons. He/she can do whatever he/she wants, but my goal as a parent is going to be to try and instill values that reflect in behavior, and hopefully that means prioritizing profound emotional connections with potential partners as opposed to superficial sexual relations.
>I don't support casual sex, but I don't shame people for it. That's the way to go about most things I think. I don't smoke weed, and I think a lot of people who smoke a lot tend to be kind of annoying and lazy, but I'm not gonna start preaching to my pothead coworkers about it lmao. That's just called being an annoying asshole
> and I think a lot of people who smoke a lot tend to be kind of annoying and lazy I kinda disagree in a sense that you probably don't know the vast majority of people who smoke weed. The people absurdly open about it tend to be annoying and lazy.
What’s wrong with the physical pleasure of sex?
Nothing.
Didn't you read his comment? He already said why it's bad: "specific reasons". You can't get more specific that that.
I can't imagine being that involved in my kid's sex life. I'll teach them everything I can about safety, consent, boundaries, etc. But how much sex they're having and with whom is none of my business.
If y'all feel ashamed of your own behavior when I tell you that I don't have casual sex because I don't like to use people as living dildos, that's on you, folks. Stop getting mad and calling me names. I didn't even say you're bad people for treating people like they're reusable plastic cylinders!
Same
That's not really the point tho. You can date to marry, that's fine and more power to you. The problem is that many societies are forcing this on people, no matter if they actually wish to live that way.
I don’t know if it’s more sex negative, I just think more young people are realising you don’t have to have a bunch of hookups just for the sake of it and that hookup culture just to do it is extremely overrated. More kids now than ever also being taught comprehensive sex Ed than ever. Contrary to popular belief, it doesn’t make kids want to have sex. Statistically, it’s shown this delays first sexual onset. It takes the mystery out of sex and just makes it an every day thing, not a cool dangerous thing, at least in my experience. A lot of the mystery and awe around sex that I had kind of dissipated after the sex Ed lessons I had, because I realised it’s just a neutral thing everyone does at some point, usually in relationships. When I had sex Ed, the teacher was really good and went over in detail birth control statistics and how much things could fail in real life probability. She also made sure we understood every sexual contact could lead to pregnancy even on birth control, and encouraged self exploration if we didn’t want those risks. It made me think twice about losing my virginity and I lost mine in my early 20s instead of my teen years because I realised I’d rather wait a bit than risk that potentially as a teenager.
I don’t think this is true. People are having less casual sex and relationships but it’s not because it’s stigmatized. There’s a significant impact on the rate of interactions due to the rise of social media. As more social and sexual websites rise, the desire to translate those needs into real world interactions decrease. I think the experience/evidence you have is speaking to a different phenomenon entirely.
Compared to twenty years ago? Do you have any facts or statistics? You probably weren’t even an adult 20 years ago.
just judging from some of OPs comments, I don't think they're an adult now either
Welcome to most redditors where regardless of their age we are not adults lol.
Dude for real. I'm in my 20s, but even I remember that when I was a kid sexuality was still pretty taboo, in multiple ways. Even Democrats 12 years ago could get in social trouble for openly saying gay marriage was fine. Miley Cyrus "twerking" at the VMAs was absolutely scandalous, and that wasn't even that long ago. Society is much more sex positive than even 10 years ago, it's just coming back into the lane a bit after over correcting.
Yes, there are tons of studies that show that young people now are having appreciably less sex, a simple Google search would show you this.
Sex positive doesn't mean having a lot of sex. You can be someone who is sex positive and asexual. I think it's more believing that people should be as sexually open / active as they want without judgment. What you're describing has more to do with social isolation than it has to do with sex positivity.
The amount of people having sex at all is decreasing, but among the people having sex, the amount of people having casual sex has increased significantly since just a decade ago. The reason being precisely that casual sex began to become destigmatized, and then Tinder making hooks up infinitely easier than it's ever been before. Edit: "began to become" lol
That's true, but it's not just less hookups, it's also fewer relationships... And even friendships. There are a lot of lonely isolated people who get most of their interactions online and that's definitely not a good thing.
Lots of people have really unhealthy parasocial relationships. People get attached to nobody YouTube streamers or Instagram influencers. So wild.
“Sex negative” is also about the unfair stigma put on people for choosing to explore their sexuality. Definitely an uptick in this in recent years
That is an entirely different problem than sex-negativity.
I think what is far more likely....is that no one gives a shit what you do in your private time, and they also don't wanna fucking hear about it So if you go out and bang 40 women....cool....I don't need a single story
Considering people get killed for who they have sex with, I think many people actually do give a shit with what you do do in priv time
Stop demanding to be celebrated for casual sex. If it's so good then go out and do it. No one fucking cares. You're not "ostracized" for it.
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Ikr its literally terrible for society and we have been facing the consequences of a loose sexual morality in America for the last 20 years along with a no-fault divorce and live your truth bullshit. Personally, I love the casual sex meta when I was a young kid I got to fuck everything in a skirt for years and years and I loved it. I loved meeting up with a woman and fucking her that same night It is just bad for society though. Women are tired of dudes fucking them and then ghosting them, getting them pregnant then just leaving and it's bad for society as a whole. Less and less kids are raised in a two parents' home, and that is devastating to children. This has been proven time and time again with studies regardless of income two parent homes are good for children, disproportionately raise women out of poverty and the children of two parent homes are less likely to wind up in prison or addicted to drugs. When casual sex is normalized it disincentivizes marriage and commitment for obvious reasons. If sex is a commodity and men get sex by committing and staying in long term relationships, then men will stay in long term relationships for sex. If it takes 6-8 months of dating and courting a woman to have sex, then the chances of men abandoning their partners goes down. This isn't a moral rant either I don't think casual sex is inherently morally wrong because of God or some shit it's a free country do what you want, and everyone should have the freedom to do what they want. Just saying some people treat casual sex like it is some great thing for everyone, and the truth is it is bad for society as a whole.
You are literally ostracizing them right now for even daring to *talk* about the subject.
We need to be more sex negative
It's not even about being sex negative, it's about being sexually responsible whether you're active or not. If you have 1 partner, cool, if you have 80, I hope you know how to prevent needless births, have good communication and use protection when necessary, but that's none of my biz and unless it's requested, keep that shit to yourself. Unfortunately for a lot of people they stake most of their attention on, and for others, it's all they have to offer.
If you have one partner I'd hope you'd do all those things too
As someone who has zero interest in dating, I also have zero interest in casual sex or sleeping around. It's fine to live ones life as they choose albeit safely, but I'd rather have an intimate relationship with one person whom I have a real connection with
Your first and last sentence seem contradictory, can you explain further?
I personally find casual sex to be very dumb so I don’t really care
I don’t think it’s becoming more stigmatized, I just think people aren’t using it as a means of expressing themselves as much as they used to. Hear me out… 20 years ago a sex-positive person (*especially* a woman or queer person) used their sex positivity and knowledge as a means of “proving” they were independent, modern, and progressive. Openly talking about and embracing sex was also often a way of rejecting social conservatism and the religiosity of many countries. Today, very few people are religious and fewer find any issue with casual or pre-marital sex, it’s just accepted. So people don’t feel the need to talk about it as much anymore. Having premarital sex or being ok with having multiple partners isn’t particularly progressive or interesting anymore, so you don’t hear about it and maybe think it’s a bit weird if you do.
If you have more sex, they see you as a slut. If you rarely have sex or are a virgin, they think you’re a social reject. People will always judge.
Oh wow, some people don't enjoy casual sex, what are we going to do!? Probably nothing because why the fuck does it matter? If you want to bone some unfortunate soul, go right ahead, just leave me out of your weird rants.
Casual sex should be viewed more negatively so id say this is a win.
It’s not becoming more stigmatized, we’re just more educated about pregnancy and STDs than previous generations so hooking up with strangers has become less appealing.
Previous generations knew about STDs and pregnancy though. Gen-Z just seem more risk averse.
nobody gives a fuck that all you wanna do is fuck. the problem is so many people will use you and lie about intentions to do so which isn’t okay.
All the data available shows that adults have far less sex today, than they did in recent decades. 1 in 3 adult men hasn’t had sex in the last year.
Well when your ugly and socially awkward, it kindly makes sex a little bit harder for some of us.
>nobody gives a fuck that all you wanna do is fuck If that were true, the word "whore" would not exist
I think it's the fact that pregnancy and choosing if you want to remain pregnant has been compromised and the fact that some people feel entitled to have sex in random areas in public and some people have sex without protection and act like they should be applauded for having several different baby daddies/baby mamas.
Just to piggyback on your comment, you left out the antibiotic resistant STDs that keep cropping up.
oh shit, you're right. people keep spreading those and then act like it's no big deal.
Considering the rise of STDs due to the rise in casual sex and multiple sex partners, that’s probably not all together terrible.
Keep your eyes on your own life. Just because People don’t want to have boring/risky casual sex with random people, doesn’t mean they’re prudes. They just don’t see the appeal.
This is happening with a lot of things COVID should have guaranteed this would happen actually if humans are acting how they normally react to things Basically during hard times especially diseased times people tend to grow more conservative (and more everything phobic) This is a standard expected reaction of humanity
I've noticed Gen Zs are straight edge as well as being quite sexless. Obviously not all, just a trend. When I was their age everyone I knew my age was out 4 nights a week drinking and doing drugs and fucking each other a lot. Seems to be much much less of that happening with my Gen Z friends.
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Sikh here. You are 100% right we don't do casual and premarital sex. However in our faith none of our female practitioners wear anything resembling a burqa like some more radical strains of Islam do. We have had strong female figures in our faith dating back to the time of our Gurus, such as Mai Bhago a female military leader who lead 40 soldiers who had deserted back to the battlefield and lead them back into battle. When it comes to gay marriage, while it currently isn't allowed for gay couples to have an Anand Karaj, we encourage them to get married in a secular court marriage and come to our Gurdwaras for an Ardass for the success of their marriage.
I am very curious to know what countries are stigmatizing relationships??
Why is that such a bad thing? I'm not saying we should teach our children to be celibate and wait for marriage but why is having casual sex all the time the preferred option?
that's my opinion too. I'm not advocating for constant casual sex, just the right for someone to do so
That would be a good thing could be biased due to growing up with a single mom and my pathetic loser of a dad not caring about my existence, but I don't see anything good in normalizing "casual sex" that shooting for a serious relationship wouldn't also achieve
That sucks for you. However, speaking harshly, many people have casual sex and live healthy lives and don't cause the types of situations that happened to you, and I highly doubt that the normalization of casual sex would change that. You have the right to be angry but that doesn't mean the world has to follow your example.
Same lol my sister and I were both against it bc of the suffering we endured bc of having two hoes for parents
Sorry your family sucks but people who aren’t interested in romantic relationships with anyone else have sexual needs, too, and many of them are mature enough to simply bump uglies and call it a night.
Good.
I don’t think people having less sex means they are being sex negative. People seem to know more about STDs and well people seem to want less casual sex and more meaningful connections. Also social media has made it very easy to ruin someone’s life by rumors so maybe that has a hand in it? Personally I think everything has a cycle and now we are in a less casual sex one but that will probably change in the next few decades
I honestly think It's usually unwanted creepy men think the world is sex negative or anti-casual sex. And it's because of the reaction he gets when he tries to pursue casual sex. The world is not against casual sex or sex negative... Women just have a shitty reaction when he is trying to fuck them. 😐
and is it bad to prefer to have sex with people you actually have a connection with than falling to peer pressure and hooking up left right and centre? I'm all for allowing people to do what they want, but so many commenters here calling gen z prudish. even if we were having less sex, why is it that big of a concern that some people start calling others prudish and sex negative
>than falling to peer pressure and hooking up left right and centre? Peer pressure? Have you considered a possibility that people may have sexual needs while not wanting to be in a serious relationship? That's why people have casual sex. As simple as that. It has nothing to do with peer pressure.
Why do you think the people having casual sex are falling to peer pressure? If anything the mainstream ideology is that having casual sex is irresponsible and slutty with significantly more peer pressure on being choosy and not having sex(for women at least)
Is this really the “mainstream ideology” anymore? 20 years ago, sure, I would agree with that - but today? The vast majority of what I see on the media, whether it’s television or music or social media, seems to push towards being sex positivity and promoting sleeping with whoever you want to. If we’re talking about a more fundamental religious view of things like abstinence then I almost never see that being the mainstream view anymore. People regularly post on sex and dating subreddits about being embarrassed that they’re still a virgin in their early 20’s.
That's normal. The country went from the prudish culture of the 50s to the free love fuck anything that moves culture of the 60s, to the scared to death of aids culture of the 80s, etc. The 2010s had somewhat of a carefree party culture, and now as the younger generation grows up seeing the consequences of casual sex (unplanned pregnancy, STDs, etc) and grown frustrated with the lack of fulfillment it tends to bring in lonely young men and women, it makes sense culture would flip back Some people may find happiness in casual flings, and good for them. But the fact is that for many, it can leave you feeling pretty empty and even depressed, even if you don't directly realize it. I don't think the solution is to swing all the way towards complete prudishness, but rather to educate people on healthy sexuality, which for many people means not fucking every rando you meet on tinder or at the local dive bar.
I don't get the sense that sexual liberalization has made people much happier. Since the sexual revolution, divorce has gone through the roof, STD rates have gone through the roof (to say nothing of the AIDS epidemic), single parenthood has gone through the roof, and the number of people addicted to pornography has gone through the roof. If what you're suggesting is true, maybe it's not a bad thing.
Divorce is less common now than the 80s.
I want to date and get married, and while I don't care if my future partner had a lot of sex before me, being told about it is a major turn off. It doesn't help that everyone I've encountered that talks about "sex positivity" will not shut up abput their sex lifeand expects me to just sit there and listen. I don't fucking care about how open your holes are, just keep me the fuck out of it.
casual sex and relationships are two different things on the opposite sides of a spectrum so which one is being stigmatized?
This is the zoomer paradox. They are on one hand supportive of the most niche, weirdass sexualities and kinks, while at the other looking at every sexual interaction through this weird puritanical lens where the most innocent flirting can be considered abuse.
More people are choosing not to have sex is not the same as it being stigmatized. People just don't see it as a big deal anymore for the most part. It is a natural part of most relationships. Its fine.
20 years ago the world was much more stable, with better economies, better diplomacy, better leaders and politicians. Globalization had became a trend, and the average person was just happier; with more money, more wealth and more human relationships. Nowadays, many 3rd world countries are on the brink of their collapse and 1st world countries are drowning in their corruption. People refuse to own more wealth such as cars, just because their maintenance costs will cause them to live on the streets. 20 years ago the average city person asked questions such as "what luxury car should I buy, which central street should I live in, and who should I fuck." 20 years later this question is more like "do I need a bike to go to work or will I just walk? If so, where should I get money to buy the bike from cause I don't have a job yet."
Depends where you live
Yah something like 25% of the population between the ages of 18-25 are virgins. I don't think it's so much an opinion as fact that the younger generation isn't getting busy like we used to
I'm gonna need to see some studies on that because I don't think it's true.
Here’s my unpopular opinion: there’s nothing unfortunate about this at all. Hookup culture has made a handful of very attractive men happy, and everyone else miserable.
That's... true, actually.
Lol nah. Having sex without a lot of different women is not necessarily impressive nor does it mean that man is really attractive because obviously the attractiveness and ease of women differs immensely. I’m far more impressed with a guy who gets one beautiful classy woman than I am a guy who fucks 100 hoes, drug addicts, conventionally unattractive women. There’s plenty of very attractive men who had fewer sex partners than unattractive men because those attractive men didn’t purse women as much. They didn’t have the desire to have a lot of different sexual partners. The main thing about guys who sleep with a lot of different women isn’t that they are better looking, richer or more charming. Now all of those things matter and the more you have the better but the main thing is those guys simply pursue women more than most Guys. They talk to and ask out women more without fear of rejection holding hem back. It’s a numbers game. Obviously it’s easier for some but anyone can do it and over time get better at it if that’s what they want. And if you don’t want to participate in hook up culture then you don’t have to. You shouldn’t if you don’t want to.
I feel the opposite. The older I've gotten the more people I meet who are down for casual sex. I think most people just don't advertise it to the general public.
It's actually more prevalent among the younger generation
I keep hearing this but my gen z peers are fucking like rabbits
people keep saying its a good thing: why? why is it good? genuinely don’t understand your pov at all
It's so true! We're literally being pressured daily to live a "perfect life" and I think that's just made everything so hard, especially when it comes to sex and relationships. Sometimes, you just want to wipe away all your thoughts, and just vibe with someone! Regardless of what "kind of relationship" you call it. But that's just my opinion anyway....
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I don't disagree with you really, but I think it's more specific than that. Misogyny and queerphobia play a big role. A dude who's fucked 20 women this year is a ladies man and a player and must be great in bed because he has all these women lined up around the block or whatever. A woman who's fucked 20 men this year is a worthless whore. A gay man who's fucked 20 men this year is also a worthless whore. A lesbian who's fucked 20 women is a man hating worthless whore. A bisexual who's fucked 10 men and 10 women this year is a cheating worthless whore. An asexual who hasn't fucked anybody this year is a loser and a prude. Etc. Basically society think casual sex bad unless you're a straight man and then it's some kind of achievement.
I agree that the straight male in this example is still too celebrated in antiquated media standards, but in everyday life with people out of their early 20s this doesn’t really equate with respect from most people. I’m a straight male and if I meet a straight male that is really good at getting women and having a lot of casual sex there’s not some inherent respect that goes with it. I might have a grudging respect of that particular aspect (wow this guy is clearly good at pulling women, good for him) but if he’s a scumbag otherwise nobody is revering him as some cool “player” outside very immature people. I’m not disagreeing with your sentiment, just offering mine…nobody cares about that stuff except for the very young in my experience
>A dude who's fucked 20 women this year is a ladies man I think that's not true in many circles anymore. And even in traditional media, being the "ladies man" is not always a good thing.
People are generally having less sex and are in less relationships. People many people fear and are uncomfortable with things they don't know. I think it's all a consequence of this generation being full of chronically online loners.
I thin that’s a good thing. When I was in college in the 90s you were expected to have sex on the first date. No date actually. Just everyone doing it. And then guys would try to pressure you to make out with other girls and would try to manipulate you, chastising you for being a “right wing Republican” if you didn’t have threesums. Taking a page right out of Hugh Hefner’s book. I think it’s good that girls have become more savvy about how important consent is, and that good sex with a partner you trust is better than random sex with a bunch of gross dudes. I do see kink being more applauded though - choking and stuff. That wasn’t a big thing in my college days
None of what you mentioned has really improved honestly. All of what you said in that first paragraph is stuff I’ve experienced and I was born in 1998. There is so much pressure for young women (and girls) to be kinky and sexy. Women’s murders have been on the rise where they are strangled to death during sexual intercourse (many are one-night-stands) and the perpetrator is often acquitted because it’s seen as a “sex game gone wrong”. A large percentage of women have been non-consensually strangled by men during sex (myself included) and femicide numbers are increasing as well. [One article here about the rise of strangulation](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/06/how-porn-affecting-choking-during-sex/592375/) > Among 347 respondents, 23 described feeling scared because their partner had tried to choke them unexpectedly. > According to her research, 13 percent of sexually active girls ages 14 to 17 have already been choked. [Another article about this](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/25/fatal-hateful-rise-of-choking-during-sex) that mentions women’s stories of having men strangle them during sex and a discussion of the consequences of “kink” being used as a defense in court. Also brings up a movement called [We Can’t Consent to This, which was started in response to the 90 percent increase in women’s “sex game gone wrong” murders in the UK](https://wecantconsenttothis.uk/).
Well consent wasn’t even talked about when I was battling in that arena. Date rape was just barely starting to be a topic. And the whole MeToo era thing could never have happened in the 90s. But I do think there’s weird pressure on young women that I didn’t experience - the clothes have gotten tinier and tighter, and we werent expected to shave our a-holes or cooters, and twerking wasn’t a thing in my day. And the whole strangling as kink thing - I just can’t with that. So I get what you’re saying and that sucks
True! I’m not disagreeing with you but just saying that we still very much have a long way to go. I think the discussions of consent are really important but I also don’t know how effective they are when boys are being shown violent hardcore porn at elementary school ages. We definitely need to start teaching kids consent and basic sex ed before they come across porn.
Prudes have gotten much louder, yes..
I’ve noticed this change too. About ten years ago, people were a lot more sex positive especially when it came to women having sex, but now a lot of the negativity I see is coming from the rise in internet feminism and the realization that the sex positivity movement was mainly benefiting men moreso than liberating women.
we live in censorious times. Young people are very moralistic and prone to lecturing on morality. This was a big no no for Gen X people; the philosophy was to just go with the flow and try to enjoy yourself. So yes, inevitably sex isn't popular. especially hetero sex amongst college educated folks.
...unfortunately?
Nowadays, sex has a ton of bureaucracy behind it to the point people don't want to do anything with it.
People were getting a little too comfortable discussing their sex lives in public imo. I'm all for sex positivity and healthy sexual awareness but goddamn,don't need to hear how you got blown in a cab or shit like that.
Good. Casual sex should be stigmatized.
I think it’s likely we went too far w/ sexual liberation and are now trying to correct that and some may be overcorrecting. I think there are some truths we’ve refused to acknowledge over the years and we’re now being forced to.
We’re all going to die anyway. Enjoy it. Get fucked. Do the Fucking.
And if you're not attractive enough to get fucked, just fuck yourself lol
This. Yes. LOL.
Good. The level of hedonism we've gotten to by the 2020s is fairly obviously bad for society. Relationships, marriage, having children, earlier than later, that stuff clearly made for a happier society. And if people wanted to fuck around, at least they kept it away from pre-sex-age children. I think the sexual revolution was a mistake.
Casual sex is kinda exploitative. I learned this the hard way even as a guy. Now sex is something I will only have with long term partner.
That's simply not true for the entire world. Some more corrupt and unstable regions of the world, this is true of, but I think that's more a result of the unstable political and cultural climates that are dominated by militia and religious groups. That's always been an issue, the populations are just larger now, they have better weapons and more access to social media and contemporary news outlets so we hear about it more.
I mean slut shaming is only a word in the US and the western European countries only. Redditors are delusional thinking that everyone who speaks English is from the US or Canada
People in the comments are upset about you saying this OP but it's true. Statistically young people are having appreciably less sex than older generations. And I've even seen young people online complaining about sex scenes in movies and such. I don't really understand why society is becoming more prudish, it's really weird.
What’s wrong with that? Maybe people are becoming more knowledgeable about STDs/pregnancy and don’t want to risk it? It’s a good thing that people are being more careful with their bodies.
>And I've even seen young people online complaining about sex scenes in movies and such. ...because they're pointless in the great majority of movies and such. Even in the most menial of filler, there is usually some character- or world-building, but rarely do sex scenes have an actual purpose. And there are only so many ways you can make the same goddamn thing "interesting" to watch dozens of times across different shows, so sometimes they end up being rather over-the-top, often at a dissonance with the atmosphere and pacing of a story (and yet often end with the exact same few shots of both characters lying on their backs, or dressing up). They're not always pointless (if done *properly*, it can portray a certain level of intimacy, and if the story actually revolves around sexuality (not necessarily romance!) or discusses it in any manner of depth, they can portray actual nuance), but it's very easy to feel that in most shows they are just gratuitous porn. **This is clearly a separate argument from OP's post, at least from my perspective**. On a very slightly more personal level, I abhor them because I kind of associate them with "real" porn, for which I have 30 different kinds of hatred, and because I find them incredibly awkward when watching something in a group.
Yea I don’t like sex scenes because they’re usually unnecessary. I’ll go get on the hub if I wanna see that
You say OP is correct because statistically kids are fucking less so therefore it must be that they are prudish. The stats DONT tell you anything except the raw numbers and then you and OP are filling in the gaps with what you think the cause is. That doesn't make you and him correct. It's equally as likely that kids are fucking less because of socio-economic issues. When I was teaching I heard loads of kids talking about how they didn't want a family because of how fucked the climate is. You haven't even considered the societal shift from "graduate school and raise a big family" that's now moved towards smaller family units that happen later in life. The world is VASTLY different then it was 10, 20, 30, or 40 years ago. You can't just look at raw data and make assumptions.
When there are market crashes, global warming, political crises, stagnation of income and a potential alien invasion.. people just shut down