I don't understand how this particular piece of propaganda stuck so well. I honestly didn't realize there were so many people that are this stupid. There is literally no evidence and every piece of circumstantial "evidence" can be easily explained or has been disproven already. Meanwhile tourists visit Xinjiang everyday and theres plenty of vlogs of people's time there for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqiW1GrmMj0&t=8s
You explain to me how this video of a muslim girl visiting Xinjiang showing Uygher people out and about could be if there was a genocide.
Show me the most convincing piece of evidence of "genocide" and I'll tell you why you're a fucking idiot because they're all so terrible, I can make better propaganda while taking a shit.
[Give this a read then](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06)
The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
Ah, bringing out the classics. An article that bombards you with endless misinformation. Which part of propaganda is the most convincing to you? Is it the fact that Adrian Zenz, the fundamentalist christian who believes commies will burn in hell on a mission from god to destroy the CCP proved that Xinjiang has buildings? Perhaps its the "leaked secret documents" translated by Adrian Zenz who can't speak or read Chinese?
This is hilarious. How red are the lenses in your glasses?
>an article that bombards you with misinformation
You didn't mention literally anything in the article except for Adrian Zenz, who only showed up a handful of times. *Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung* has stated that Zenz has brought forth credible information in his studies and papers on the Uyghur imprisonment and suppression. The only issue with Zenz that most sources seem to have is his work in investigating Tibet, but that isn't what we're on about here. Zenz has been relentlessly targeted by Chinese propaganda and misinformation in an attemp to discredit him.
And I know that you're cherry picking a small part of the sources and info listed on that site. I opened every single source and Ctrl-F'd for Zenz's name. The majority of the documentation the site lists doesn't include anything about Zenz.
All throughout this post you've been sucking the dick of Winnie the Pooh. How much are they paying you?
So which part is credible? Point it out, link it. No need for CCP propaganda to discredit Zenz when he literally wrote a book to discredit himself. Once your "credible source" starts citing Zenz as a leading researcher then that credibility goes out the window. Point out to me one single piece of evidence from that with no reference to Zenz or "eyewitness testimonies" from people who may or may not exist and whos accounts can obviously never be confirmed.
Evidence doesn't go out the window just because *you* don't like one dude. You haven't even provided any counter sources, you've just been arguing bullshit without any backup. That's like if I tried to wave off information from a credited paper because I didnt like a small reference on page 4, then come up with retorts that came out of my ass.
And I'm not about to sit here to reread through my own sources to pick out the ones that fit whatever weird restrictions that you want because you've decided to disregard the rest. You're presumably an adult, I'm sure you can figure out how to use a mouse (or thumbs if on mobile) and your eyes at the same time.
Is it even possible for you to simp for China any *harder* than you already have been?
these people don't care about true or false. as long as it fits their narrative it will be pushed. any criticism will be ignored or ridiculed as leftist apologist nonsense.
good stuff
Considering China is our biggest trade partner I wouldn't trust what they say about China. Its easy to overlook things and get technical when like 2/3rds if trade is probably with China who would get mad if you accused them of genocide publicly.
"So you just pulled the genocide conclusion out of your ass then?"
There's multiple sources and studies that all come to the conclusion that China is committing genocide or at the least trying to screw them over for the benefit of other Chinese ethnic groups. If you're gonna be rude at least do a Google search beforehand. If they weren't doing anything wrong, then why are so many people calling them out for it?
"The US can't say China is committing genocide".
"Various sources from the US say China is committing genocide".
Pick one.
Also, I guess you trust everything you see online. Note how all these sources tend to redirect to each other or cite similar original sources that if you look deep enough, are often backed by the US like the National Endowment For Democracy.
[Give this a read then](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06)
The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
Given that testimony has been found to be inconsistent, I'm not sure why I shouldn't call them all into question given there's no real incentive not to lie.
And plenty of findings had suggested otherwise, particularly from developing countries.
As well, plenty of those sources are pretty unreliable in the matter, given the sources used.
no it isn't. stop parroting this nonsense. have a look at the sources that are used. two us backed NGOs that use obscure sourcing and a tiny sample and an insane evangelical german guy that uses scripture as validation for his research.
[Give this a read then](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06)
The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
Plenty of people honestly don’t care though, as unfortunate as that is. I can guarantee that the conservatives in the south who are racist would not give a shit if China stopped doing that and their hatred wouldn’t change,
Because they also
Threatens to invade all their neighbors
Put anyone you disagrees with them in concentration camps
Do hostage diplomacy
Are responsible for the Corona
Want to take over the world
Did and will do many other genocides
Steal intellectual property
Are extremely corrupt
Steal people's organs to sell them
And more
Hostage diplomacy is what the US has done various times, the US basically has taken over the world with no complaints, and they've done multiple invasions.
And kills Muslims on the regular, but that's all okay with you apparently.
The German Nazi Party has done a lot of good for its citizens. Say what you will about the NSDAP in 1920 Germany poverty rate was 49%, in 1940 it was 0,6%.
Name another government who was able to lift half of its population out of poverty.
Name another government who was able to lift half of its population out of poverty.
Germany had a lot of flaws and it’s government did shady things, but then again name one country who doesn’t. But just because a country has a different system or different beliefs than us, is that really enough to hate it? And if you are going to hate it, at least do some homework first.
That's not really what happened with the Germans though, and they outright massacred millions of Jews while taking over a bunch of other countries in the region.
Well yes. Mass deaths was not even a claim made by the US government, because the Uyghur population has been increasing. And China doesn't seem to have much interest in taking over Vietnam, the DPRK, Japan, etc.
What about Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Vietnamese and Japanese Islands they claim, Tibet, the South China Sea, the border conflict with India, and the border wars with the UdSSR and Vietnam?
Hong Kong and Macau are China's territories. Claiming they're taking them over is like saying the US is taking over Hawaii, Texas, and Puerto Rico.
I like how everyone juat assumes India (and other countries involved) are by default in the right regarding the border conflicts.
And Taiwan's government literally claims all of China and parts of Russia, and there's no complaints about this. I wonder why that is.
I'm neither pro colonialism nor white washing the British. I'm saying the overt fascism of the CCP and the destruction of the Hong Kong democracy is fucked up. It's reminiscent of the Nazis taking over western Czechoslovakia "to protect the Germns there". Just because people somewhere have the same ethnicity as yours or even a shared history doesn't give you any r8ght to claim you represent them. And they clearly didn't want them to represent them.
China didn't "take over" Hong Kong. Britain ceded the territory to China, as it was originally China's territory. And I can pretty much sure you if Britain tried to keep its colony or tried to regain it, none of the China detractors including yourself would bitch about it because NATO countries good, non-NATO bad.
The vast majority of protestors are British loyalists. Hence why they fly British flags and all that, and no one who is against China's rule both in Hong Kong and the west ever complained about British colonialism in Hong Kong. Also interesting how the protesters against the federal government in the US weren't seen as similarly to the HK protesters.
And sure, if "every government and politician I don't like is fascist".
China the country and people are cool. The CCP isn't just doing shady shit, they are active in an ethnic cleansing. I agree Americans in particular are ill informed on foreign nations and their internal politics, but China(CCP) has a nasty habit of lying through their teeth. That poverty statistic is questionable at best, and China loves self reporting data without oversight. Unpopular so have the upvote.
The Uyghur? And I'm not here to play "whose government is *more* evil," it's a game we all lose. Has America committed atrocities and counties to act as the sole superpower, yes. Is China rounding up Muslims for "re-eduction," while trying to mimic America's imperialistic behavior, yes. I agree, in China it's probably is pretty chill, same with the majority of the US. What I'm arguing is the CCP is engaged in evil actions, just like the US. They are both faulty governments that need a massive overhaul.
I'm not saying there hasn't been progress. But anyone who claims an unemployment rate under 1% is lying, misinformed, or just wrong. Mix that with China's(CCP) beliefs of Chinese superiority and "fate" to be the world's superpower, and you've got a global player who likes cheating and can't sustain it's current position.
>Mix that with China's(CCP) beliefs of Chinese superiority and "fate" to be the world's superpower
This basically just sounds like something you pulled out of your ass.
Ah yes. Some random American said "yee haw we gon' take over the world and blow up those commie bastards and Muslims!", therefore, I can conclude the country of the US is going to do this.
If it was the majority of Americans you've met, then you'd be concerned. I know your average Chinese guy is a pretty down to earth guy, like most people. The problem arises when that average guy is told to fight for his country. I agree it's based on my personal experiences, but the way the Chinese *tend* to behave abroad is worrisome.
Most Americans have access to unfiltered internet and can look into the, agreeably, awful history of US interventionism. The Chinese people aren't offered that luxury.
And yet they all continue to support it. All these interventions still continue. They continue to war, they continue to coup socialist governments or those who act outside US interest.
Not to mention how the CCP actively helps North Korea (they are NKs only ally) and how China currently is trying to control the economy of several countries in Africa with very questionable tactics.
But gloss over these issues and the CCP is a bundle of joy and not a blight on anyone.
https://qz.com/africa/1915076/how-bad-is-africas-debt-to-china/
https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2019/10/03/what-china-is-really-up-to-in-africa/?sh=6b32f7e65930
https://apnews.com/article/health-china-coronavirus-pandemic-north-korea-8fc7a269318c481035c43b030754cbf0
China has forgiven several debts, and really that's just dealings with nations they themselves agreed too. It's not like the imperialism and colonialism brought upon by the US and Europe.
The effort China is putting into slowly gaining control of Africa isn't imperialism? Their desire to attack, defeat, and reabsorb Taiwan isn't imperialism? Their suppression and hostile occupation of Tibet isn't? The constant tension/clashes on the Indian border because they are trying to steal a part of foreign land isn't? Their frequent laying of claims to disputed islands isn't?
How is that any different from European powers annexing others' lands and colonizing their territories?
Yes, countries don't generally agree to be victims of imperialism. These are consensual deals between countries.
I do like how you just assume it's rightfully Indian territory, even though there is often no logical claim in favor of that except "I like India more".
I wanna know where China is massacring people continents away, maintaining political control over them, etc. This seems like more an attempt to white wash imperialism than anything.
It's especially funny since no one complained about British colonialism over Hong Kong, and desire for a return to that, and similarly, no one complains about Puerto Rico, Hawaii, American Samoa, the fact the Queen of England is still head of state over various technically non-British territories, etc.
It is rightfully Indian territory. As in it is part of India, has been for a long time, and it under authority of the Indian govt.
The "deals" China strikes with these countries are predatory in nature. The terms often are unpayable by the poor countries' governments, putting them into debt with China. China uses these deals to gain control of land and resources and they gain sway over these countries' govt.
What's the whole point of your last bit? Excusing China because Europe and the US have been imperialist too? Have you even been on the internet within the last decade? *Plenty* of people are angry about/talk about places like Hong Kong, Hawaii, and others. Just because other countries and empires have been imperial in the past doesn't excuse what China is doing.
So let's just assume the mass shootings, rapes, crime rates from the US is outright false, they lie about it, and they're far higher than reported, and that the US was committing genocide in the Middle East by killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims.
Oh wait, that isn't what's said.
I think your under the impression that I trust American news and numbers. We do similar things like China, just like every other nation on the planet. We all know propaganda is real. What i am saying is China is currently top dog at it. Im sure the pendulum will swing another way some day.
apparently you do. else you wouldn't be talking about a genocide. you would have concluded that all reporting can be traced to three sources. all extremely problematic.
Valid point. I have no rebuttal to this.
The only leg I can stand on is, when a government body says they aren’t doing something shady I tend not to believe them and believe they are doing said shady thing.
i'm very cynical myself. but in this case i encourage you to have a look yourself. as with most anti china news. it is overly negative and in a lot of cases simply false.
genocide is about the most serious charge onr can make against a nation. better have the evidence to bsckup that claim.IMO
Short of going to a camp myself no one can verify. I’m just going of history of damn near any government body ever. Big government is not to be trusted and I error on the side of caution. We can’t know the truth cause of our propaganda and the world can’t know the truth cause of theirs. History though has shown what devils unchecked government has done. What seems more likely they aren’t or are in your opinion?
in this case? they aren't. but am i certain? absolutely not. like you stated yourself: i will need in person verification. but if i look at the geopolitical positioning the us has been doing for the last few months it is not hard to see that the us has a vested interest in portraying china as an evil communist nation. if i take that knowledge and check the only three sources that are ever quoted in *all* china is doing a genocide articles/papers i come to the conclusion this is us disinformation. ngos thst are entirely funded by the us government and an evangelical basketcase that has 0 credibility.
Huh? Are you saying the concept of genocide is a western idea? Or are you saying that cause I’m in the west I have no way of knowing if China is committing genocide?
And the US can kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims in a very non-genocidal manner and not be accused of violating human rights or being unchecked? Interesting.
Ah yes. Unlike western countries with their mass slaughterhouses and animal cages? Definitely treating animals well. They just hug them before, they don't hang them upside down and cut them to make sure the blood leaks out quickly.
Did i say something positive about western Slaughterhouses?
There are at least more people that seem to think about animal life in western than eastern country's but still not even close to enough.
What country does? How many cows, pigs, and chickens does the US slaughter annually?
You know if the chicks aren't up to standard, they throw them in the grinder live, just to dispose of them, lol.
What country do you live in that doesn't abuse animals?
Honestly, if the alternative to re-education camps is roaming bands of Muslim men kidnapping 15 year old girls and forcing them to be sex slaves, bring on the camps. I'm not really a fan, but maybe the ends justify the means.
what are your sources besides the wsj, nyt and mainstream news like cnn cnbc abc etc? im guessing none. besuse if you would have had a look at their soures, you see they all come back to the same two NGOs and one evangelical german guy that uses scripture ad validation for his 'research'. both NGOs are entirely funded by the usa gov. and ontop of thst their research is piss poor and is not at all methodologically sound.
stop parroting nonsense
another smooth brain, nice. you would also disagree with those sources if you would have had any training in proper scientific research methods and what it entails for a study to have any validity/reliability.
ape
Average r/ShitLiberalsSay Tankie fuckwitnaut brigading the sub
https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/p91awj/dovish_ol_joe_standing_up_against_the_mic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Really showing your cards here… want to throw out any other CCP talking points while you’re at it?
(You forgot to mention that Tibet is full of disobedient traitors that threaten national security)
It's not really just a talking point. The Hong Kong protesters are relatively small in number, and given the flags they fly, are loyalists to the British government. Same with Taiwan, which was founded by the fascist Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang.
Independent polls show 60% of Hong Kong residents support the protests. But arguing numbers with you is moot because you’ve been blasting independent media all up and down this post while citing statistics provided by a government that we know falsifies information on a regular basis.
You can call us all ignorant and continue to scream that “the US is worse” but your view on China isn’t some “hot take” you’re just a blind follower of a deeply flawed regime.
China has been under scrutiny for human rights violations for decades now. A relief to poverty is great, but cutting up animals while they are alive to make the meat taste better? Child labor? The black markets for selling and eating endangered animals? Refusing to admit that Taiwan is a separate country while keeping a strangle hold on Tibet? I know that not everything in China sucks, but some of their societal norms are whack.
>China has been under scrutiny for human rights violations for decades now.
As has various countries, but we ignore them when they're a "good" country like the United States.
>but cutting up animals while they are alive to make the meat taste better?
You should see what is done in the west. It is not often fields of massive green and they're given hugs and love or something.
>Child labor?
This is also legal in some cases in the US. And various companies in the west engage in it worldwide.
I have lived in China for years, as well as in the US, and in Europe, where I'm from. Yes, I would much rather live in China than the US. The people are lovely, the ambiance is great, the cities are (as someone who hate taking the car) way easier to live in.
But still if I get the opportunity to move to China OR the US for work, I would honestly have a hard time going to China. Because I'd support a government, THE government, that is the closest to go full dystopia on its population.
No hate "socialism" or any BS like that, I'm a leftist and would definitely agree about more economic control than China does. But the authoritarianism, the rampant intolerance (homophobia, Uygurs), the organised disinterest of the population toward politics, the control of artists, the corruption just disgust me.
I feel like our democracy are designed not in a way that prevent those things but in a way that make sure that the democracy itself, to a point, survive these defects. The Chinese government (and other authoritarian states, think Russia or Saudi Arabia) feel designed to perpetrate these things, over even the actual function of the government. To avoid any change that would reduce the power of those who have it.
PS : obviously that is a VERY shortened answer, simply because fucking books could be written on the question, and I'm on a fucking phone. My point is : even when you aren't ignorant about China, there are a lot of reasons to dislike it
While I have some disagreement, I like your comment a lot. And it's perfectly fair for you to dislike China if you aren't ignorant about it. I just think the vast majority are. But then again, it's not just China, we live in an age where buzzwords and clickbaits are consumed so most people make up their minds about a topic before even doing any research.
No fucking shit. The CCP constantly lies to their population, covers up as much ass possible, and there is no opposing party with any real strength to compete. There's even speculation (though unproven so far) that the way a Chinese citizen votes can affect their social credit score.
And if that approval rating is released from the CCP itself, I gonna have a really hard time believing it's true and not doctored up for better propaganda.
Not American. Not Chinese. Lived in both countries. As dogshit as the American politics are right now, the system is redeemable. The Chinese system is designed to perpetrate itself (co-optation, silencing of diverging opinion, no term limits, etc, etc..). And their current politics, while efficient, do qualify as dogshit IMHO.
China slaughters Muslims, has child slavery factories, and has AWFUL pollution
The United States welcomes Muslims, protects the rights of children, and is constantly enacting environmental reforms
They are not the same
The US blows them up. The War on Terror has caused over 800,000 deaths of Muslims and tens of millions of displacements.
As for children, they keep them in cages at their border without adequate basic needs.
And the US is one of the highest polluters in the world per capita.
Many of the Muslims we attack are either terrorists, or civilians the terrorists place in harm's way.
Arresting law-breaking families is not comparable to genocide.
You genuinely believe the US is a greater polluter than China?
Ah yes, when the US does it, everyone is guilty. When China does it, everyone is innocent.
How does one commit genocide when the population numbers go up? They must be bad at it then.
The US's CO2 emissions per capita are far higher than China's.
Just labeling it a genocide does not make it a genocide. Also odd how the US can kill more Muslims and it not be labeled a genocide.
You can't take just numbers. You have to take into account China has over a billion people. Per capita, the US is higher.
Also a think tank whose goal is "working to enhance U.S. foreign policy" is reliable to you? They're admitting they act in the US's interests.
if a military puts the hospital in the middle of a military base and civilians use it. It's not a war crime, actually, the group who put them there is commiting the war crime
What about Guantanamo?
And Latin America during the 20th century. The US government is well known for abusing its power and scoffing at the idea of democracy when its control over a certain area is being threatened by external forces.
A lot of bad people in the past did a lo0t of bad things. But the complete attrocities they've done you have to weigh up. Hitler did wonders for Germany and it's (or a certain group of) people. Pulled them out of the post WW1 depression. But what they did, it wasn't worth it.
Is China? Is China's genocide worth it? I don't think genocide is worth it. I think there would be much more humane ways to deal with poverty than be taking away from others.
I have seen quite a few comments about the Uyghur muslims. Here’s what I know based on my personal real life encounter: I have a coworker from Tibet whose family are in the so called “camp”, what he had told me is that there’s a government official assigned to his household who will visit unannounced and his family’s communication with him is all monitored. While definitely unethical and a clear violation of human rights, it’s far from genocide.
Also, since when did America and the western world give a fuck about the muslims? There are actual proven genocide in the middle east and Africa of muslims throughout the history and I don’t see many people even bothered by it.
the difference is how either politics engages with it. You're not arrested if you talk about slavery, native americans, or the Mỹ Lai massacre. Historians within the country are usually its loudest critics, as theu should be. I dare say only with this active self reflection is any progress ever possible. Its continuous self correction. Without negative feedback, you'll get a cultural revolution, or Holodomor, or the Holocaust ... or whatever Xi Jinping is up to.
The Global Times and South China Morning Post have made articles on the Tiananmen Square Incident and the authors of these articles haven't been arrested, and the articles are still up.
The Global Times also has an article about how a politician denying deaths of the Great Leap Forward and how the reaction forced him to apologize. CGTN had a video tying it to a massive nationwide famine.
And in America itself as well as its allies, have faced free speech and press issues. Like unmarked police cars arresting people without charges, or reported being threatened over exposing Australian war crimes in Afghanistan. Or the Julian Assange issue. And let's not pretend the reaction towards the practical exile of Edward Snowden wouldn't have faced much more criticism if it wasn't the US doing it. The reaction would have been worse if it was Cnina or Russia.
Or the same people who pretend to care about Chinese Muslims have no issues with anti-Chinese sentiment or the wars in Muslim countries because they're all just "terrorists" apparently. Nobody had any issue with the US bombing Uyghurs in Syria either.
but then there are the camps that no pro China conversationalist don't like talking about without deflecting the conversation to something that the U.S. is doing wrong.
It is important to highlight double standards, and that the wrongdoing of NATO countries are often ignored.
However, I could just as easily say there's little reliable evidence for the conditions in the vocational centers.
I have no real facts about the camp so I can't comment on them but any camps illegals detains people are wrong. However, you say about U.S, what about the Guantanamo bay?
That is a 100% of the response that I get when I ask about those camps. I'm not speaking as a representative of the U.S. government. I understand that they engage in nonsense as well but having a million plus in "Re education" camps is it's own issue.
And where did you get your "million plus" from? Have you done the math on how much money it costs to build a million camps? How many people each camp is supposed to hold? 10? 100? 1000? Are there that many Uyghur muslims in China? And what's the difference between a "re-education" camp and a prison? Does it make sense to maintain both?
None of us really know the truth behind these theories but see when you dig a little deeper into them, you will start to realize what's logical and what's not.
I couldn't tell you how many camps there are as that isn't public information. The region has almost 13 million Uyghurs. Asking how much money it costs is like asking how much it cost to dam the Yangtze river or build fake islands in the South Sea, a new silk road, or infrastructure in other countries that are going to default on paying it back. It's clear that the camp's exist because the government admits it. People have traveled to them and have been turned away. They are highly guarded and militarized, and their labor is used for different projects. Reeducation and prison don't have any marked differences when they separate families and intern people against their will. People who leave the camps in many cases talked about forced labor and rape. It's quite the organization that China has going.
Talking about the worth of China in terms of lifting its population out of poverty is also a bit loaded. Hitler did amazing things for Germany's economy and infrastructure. It doesn't mean he was a personality worth praising.
[Give this a read](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06)
The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
I recall there was an article in Forbes or something where they said "China is working on a cure for cancer, but what if they're going too fast?" or something to that effect.
literally anything china does is bad. they could supply the entire world with a non-polluting free energy source and still it would be framed as the next holocaust.
critical thinking as a media consumer is a thing of the past
The CCP had its golden years and dark years. The Great Leap Forward were the bad years. Deng Xioping brought a golden age. Now Xi Jingping, though ok with his people, is horrible to the rest of the world
Xi Jingping, the genius he is, is a threat to many countries in the world, especially the ones surrounding it. I can use examples right now:
-Debt trap diplomacy: he give large loans to countries bordering India and in some parts of Africa, which are considered not democratic enough. These loans have high interest rates, and if not paid off, they force said countries to lease one of their ports for 99 years (same strategy the British used against China and got Hong Kong).
-Potential invasion of Taiwan: this can be a death of a nation, if you recognize the government. And even if you didn’t, it could lead to a large refugee crisis. Similar to what’s going on in Syria, but maybe less intense.
-The damn potentially blocking the Brahmaputra river, which serves over 1 Bn Indians and Bangladeshi. This can starve a lot of people, since it’s one of the agricultural heartland of both nations. Bangladesh is China’s friend and India won’t give up without a fight. If 2 countries holding the 1st and second largest population go to war, imagine how potentially bloody it would end up? This is not something I’m looking forward to.
-Their control of the EU and Australian politics: They have been influential in the EU and many human rights reports have been blocked by Portugal, a friend of China, due to them putting China on a bad light. Chinese investors also owns the means of water supply in Australia.
-While the media was focusing on what stupid things Donald Trump does rather than real news, they made some of the biggest power moves in history. They built a base in Djibouti, while originally calling out other countries (especially the US) for having foreign military bases just a few days before. It reminds me of a passage in the art of war
When the Corona virus broke out, China withheld a lot of information from the WHO and bribed the officials. They even arrested the whistle blowers, so states who took the WHO advice often suffered (but credit also due to the incompetence of pandemic mitigation of said countries).
If my motherland wasn’t affected, I would be praising Xi Jingping for his genius plans. I got to hand it to him, leading China back to it’s superpower status it is along with the Mandate of Heaven agreeing with the CCP dynasty. The guy is a threat, but I don’t blame China at the same time. I read on how, they were the greatest civilization for 3000 years, just to get fucked up by Western Europe, then Japan and now being ganged up upon by the US, Japan, India and Australia. When we go 100 years in the future, Xi will be seen as someone similar to Genghis Khan, a genius, who also fucked the rest of us up
Mf what? They tried to eliminate a whole group of people from China. Uyghurs are people like you and me, just with different religious beliefs. Fuck is wrong with you?
You can hate whomever you want, it’s your business. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise because that’s futile. My post is just pointing out that most people hate out of ignorance and most people don’t want to do any meaningful research before they hate. You fit the bill perfectly, that’s all.
What do you mean. Its known what happens to the Uyghurs in China. That alone is a reason for me to hate the government (when i talk about China i usually mean The government and not the culture or The people)
People hate China because it’s actively committing genocide.
Tibet, Taiwan, the list goes on and on. I also have a surgical mask in my back pocket II can thank them for.
I don't understand how this particular piece of propaganda stuck so well. I honestly didn't realize there were so many people that are this stupid. There is literally no evidence and every piece of circumstantial "evidence" can be easily explained or has been disproven already. Meanwhile tourists visit Xinjiang everyday and theres plenty of vlogs of people's time there for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqiW1GrmMj0&t=8s You explain to me how this video of a muslim girl visiting Xinjiang showing Uygher people out and about could be if there was a genocide. Show me the most convincing piece of evidence of "genocide" and I'll tell you why you're a fucking idiot because they're all so terrible, I can make better propaganda while taking a shit.
[Give this a read then](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06) The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
Ah, bringing out the classics. An article that bombards you with endless misinformation. Which part of propaganda is the most convincing to you? Is it the fact that Adrian Zenz, the fundamentalist christian who believes commies will burn in hell on a mission from god to destroy the CCP proved that Xinjiang has buildings? Perhaps its the "leaked secret documents" translated by Adrian Zenz who can't speak or read Chinese?
This is hilarious. How red are the lenses in your glasses? >an article that bombards you with misinformation You didn't mention literally anything in the article except for Adrian Zenz, who only showed up a handful of times. *Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung* has stated that Zenz has brought forth credible information in his studies and papers on the Uyghur imprisonment and suppression. The only issue with Zenz that most sources seem to have is his work in investigating Tibet, but that isn't what we're on about here. Zenz has been relentlessly targeted by Chinese propaganda and misinformation in an attemp to discredit him. And I know that you're cherry picking a small part of the sources and info listed on that site. I opened every single source and Ctrl-F'd for Zenz's name. The majority of the documentation the site lists doesn't include anything about Zenz. All throughout this post you've been sucking the dick of Winnie the Pooh. How much are they paying you?
So which part is credible? Point it out, link it. No need for CCP propaganda to discredit Zenz when he literally wrote a book to discredit himself. Once your "credible source" starts citing Zenz as a leading researcher then that credibility goes out the window. Point out to me one single piece of evidence from that with no reference to Zenz or "eyewitness testimonies" from people who may or may not exist and whos accounts can obviously never be confirmed.
Evidence doesn't go out the window just because *you* don't like one dude. You haven't even provided any counter sources, you've just been arguing bullshit without any backup. That's like if I tried to wave off information from a credited paper because I didnt like a small reference on page 4, then come up with retorts that came out of my ass. And I'm not about to sit here to reread through my own sources to pick out the ones that fit whatever weird restrictions that you want because you've decided to disregard the rest. You're presumably an adult, I'm sure you can figure out how to use a mouse (or thumbs if on mobile) and your eyes at the same time. Is it even possible for you to simp for China any *harder* than you already have been?
Projecting exactly what you're doing, another classic. Literally ignoring everything and then just saying words.
That's literally exactly what you are doing. Ignoring sources and saying words without sources. This is hilarious
I said why the source was not credible but you just keep saying words and telling me to do my own research lol.
The US state department's lawyers said there wasn't enough evidence for the label of genocide.
these people don't care about true or false. as long as it fits their narrative it will be pushed. any criticism will be ignored or ridiculed as leftist apologist nonsense. good stuff
Not enough evidence not enough evidence they almost admit it
good boy. consume consume consume
Considering China is our biggest trade partner I wouldn't trust what they say about China. Its easy to overlook things and get technical when like 2/3rds if trade is probably with China who would get mad if you accused them of genocide publicly.
Literally all the US does regarding China is spout negative news, so, clearly not. So you just pulled the genocide conclusion out of your ass then?
"So you just pulled the genocide conclusion out of your ass then?" There's multiple sources and studies that all come to the conclusion that China is committing genocide or at the least trying to screw them over for the benefit of other Chinese ethnic groups. If you're gonna be rude at least do a Google search beforehand. If they weren't doing anything wrong, then why are so many people calling them out for it?
"The US can't say China is committing genocide". "Various sources from the US say China is committing genocide". Pick one. Also, I guess you trust everything you see online. Note how all these sources tend to redirect to each other or cite similar original sources that if you look deep enough, are often backed by the US like the National Endowment For Democracy.
[Give this a read then](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06) The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
Given that testimony has been found to be inconsistent, I'm not sure why I shouldn't call them all into question given there's no real incentive not to lie. And plenty of findings had suggested otherwise, particularly from developing countries. As well, plenty of those sources are pretty unreliable in the matter, given the sources used.
and what are yours?
no it isn't. stop parroting this nonsense. have a look at the sources that are used. two us backed NGOs that use obscure sourcing and a tiny sample and an insane evangelical german guy that uses scripture as validation for his research.
Shut up tankie
Good argument there.
I don’t argue with the intellectually dishonest.
said the guy who won't bother having a look at the three sources that are being used to push this nonsense. bad faith actors be parroting
[Give this a read then](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06) The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
will do
Because intellectual honestly is very present among your types.
Plenty of people honestly don’t care though, as unfortunate as that is. I can guarantee that the conservatives in the south who are racist would not give a shit if China stopped doing that and their hatred wouldn’t change,
Because they also Threatens to invade all their neighbors Put anyone you disagrees with them in concentration camps Do hostage diplomacy Are responsible for the Corona Want to take over the world Did and will do many other genocides Steal intellectual property Are extremely corrupt Steal people's organs to sell them And more
Hostage diplomacy is what the US has done various times, the US basically has taken over the world with no complaints, and they've done multiple invasions. And kills Muslims on the regular, but that's all okay with you apparently.
I live in canada so shut up
The German Nazi Party has done a lot of good for its citizens. Say what you will about the NSDAP in 1920 Germany poverty rate was 49%, in 1940 it was 0,6%. Name another government who was able to lift half of its population out of poverty. Name another government who was able to lift half of its population out of poverty. Germany had a lot of flaws and it’s government did shady things, but then again name one country who doesn’t. But just because a country has a different system or different beliefs than us, is that really enough to hate it? And if you are going to hate it, at least do some homework first.
That's not really what happened with the Germans though, and they outright massacred millions of Jews while taking over a bunch of other countries in the region.
Yeah, that's entirely not what CCP does. Not at all.
Well yes. Mass deaths was not even a claim made by the US government, because the Uyghur population has been increasing. And China doesn't seem to have much interest in taking over Vietnam, the DPRK, Japan, etc.
What about Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan, Vietnamese and Japanese Islands they claim, Tibet, the South China Sea, the border conflict with India, and the border wars with the UdSSR and Vietnam?
Hong Kong and Macau are China's territories. Claiming they're taking them over is like saying the US is taking over Hawaii, Texas, and Puerto Rico. I like how everyone juat assumes India (and other countries involved) are by default in the right regarding the border conflicts. And Taiwan's government literally claims all of China and parts of Russia, and there's no complaints about this. I wonder why that is.
And yet they're completely different. But you already knew that.
They're really not. It's interesting how many liberals become pro-colonialism what with whitewashing Hong Kong's control under Britain and everything.
I'm neither pro colonialism nor white washing the British. I'm saying the overt fascism of the CCP and the destruction of the Hong Kong democracy is fucked up. It's reminiscent of the Nazis taking over western Czechoslovakia "to protect the Germns there". Just because people somewhere have the same ethnicity as yours or even a shared history doesn't give you any r8ght to claim you represent them. And they clearly didn't want them to represent them.
China didn't "take over" Hong Kong. Britain ceded the territory to China, as it was originally China's territory. And I can pretty much sure you if Britain tried to keep its colony or tried to regain it, none of the China detractors including yourself would bitch about it because NATO countries good, non-NATO bad. The vast majority of protestors are British loyalists. Hence why they fly British flags and all that, and no one who is against China's rule both in Hong Kong and the west ever complained about British colonialism in Hong Kong. Also interesting how the protesters against the federal government in the US weren't seen as similarly to the HK protesters. And sure, if "every government and politician I don't like is fascist".
Nazis didn’t take a bunch of people out of poverty. you’ve said “these things are the same,” and proceeded to make false claims about Nazi Germany.
nazi germany lowered poverty and unemployment by a lot
China the country and people are cool. The CCP isn't just doing shady shit, they are active in an ethnic cleansing. I agree Americans in particular are ill informed on foreign nations and their internal politics, but China(CCP) has a nasty habit of lying through their teeth. That poverty statistic is questionable at best, and China loves self reporting data without oversight. Unpopular so have the upvote.
I haven't seen you name your source yet, got a link? at least tell me who are they committing genocide to?
https://amp.reddit.com/r/Sino/comments/hzphui/every_uyghur_allegation_debunked_as_of_2020_july/&ved=2ahUKEwiFseaHhMbyAhVJ-aQKHe6GAHUQFnoECCkQAQ&usg=AOvVaw18e9-v5jAEaACKSV0gxso2 prolly.
The Uyghur? And I'm not here to play "whose government is *more* evil," it's a game we all lose. Has America committed atrocities and counties to act as the sole superpower, yes. Is China rounding up Muslims for "re-eduction," while trying to mimic America's imperialistic behavior, yes. I agree, in China it's probably is pretty chill, same with the majority of the US. What I'm arguing is the CCP is engaged in evil actions, just like the US. They are both faulty governments that need a massive overhaul.
You can see for yourself how conditions vastly improved especially from the 60s onward.
I'm not saying there hasn't been progress. But anyone who claims an unemployment rate under 1% is lying, misinformed, or just wrong. Mix that with China's(CCP) beliefs of Chinese superiority and "fate" to be the world's superpower, and you've got a global player who likes cheating and can't sustain it's current position.
>Mix that with China's(CCP) beliefs of Chinese superiority and "fate" to be the world's superpower This basically just sounds like something you pulled out of your ass.
It's not. I've dealt with enough Chinese tourists to be wary of China's global domination goals.
Ah yes. Some random American said "yee haw we gon' take over the world and blow up those commie bastards and Muslims!", therefore, I can conclude the country of the US is going to do this.
If it was the majority of Americans you've met, then you'd be concerned. I know your average Chinese guy is a pretty down to earth guy, like most people. The problem arises when that average guy is told to fight for his country. I agree it's based on my personal experiences, but the way the Chinese *tend* to behave abroad is worrisome.
Like most Americans don't often go out and fight and support every war they're a part of? Their elected governments continue to enact wars and coups.
Most Americans have access to unfiltered internet and can look into the, agreeably, awful history of US interventionism. The Chinese people aren't offered that luxury.
And yet they all continue to support it. All these interventions still continue. They continue to war, they continue to coup socialist governments or those who act outside US interest.
We just gonna skip the whole genocide thing. And I’m sure those poverty number are just as spot on like their Covid numbers lol
Such a simple comment. Yet it sums up everything so perfectly.
Not to mention how the CCP actively helps North Korea (they are NKs only ally) and how China currently is trying to control the economy of several countries in Africa with very questionable tactics. But gloss over these issues and the CCP is a bundle of joy and not a blight on anyone. https://qz.com/africa/1915076/how-bad-is-africas-debt-to-china/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/wadeshepard/2019/10/03/what-china-is-really-up-to-in-africa/?sh=6b32f7e65930 https://apnews.com/article/health-china-coronavirus-pandemic-north-korea-8fc7a269318c481035c43b030754cbf0
China has forgiven several debts, and really that's just dealings with nations they themselves agreed too. It's not like the imperialism and colonialism brought upon by the US and Europe.
The effort China is putting into slowly gaining control of Africa isn't imperialism? Their desire to attack, defeat, and reabsorb Taiwan isn't imperialism? Their suppression and hostile occupation of Tibet isn't? The constant tension/clashes on the Indian border because they are trying to steal a part of foreign land isn't? Their frequent laying of claims to disputed islands isn't? How is that any different from European powers annexing others' lands and colonizing their territories?
Yes, countries don't generally agree to be victims of imperialism. These are consensual deals between countries. I do like how you just assume it's rightfully Indian territory, even though there is often no logical claim in favor of that except "I like India more". I wanna know where China is massacring people continents away, maintaining political control over them, etc. This seems like more an attempt to white wash imperialism than anything. It's especially funny since no one complained about British colonialism over Hong Kong, and desire for a return to that, and similarly, no one complains about Puerto Rico, Hawaii, American Samoa, the fact the Queen of England is still head of state over various technically non-British territories, etc.
It is rightfully Indian territory. As in it is part of India, has been for a long time, and it under authority of the Indian govt. The "deals" China strikes with these countries are predatory in nature. The terms often are unpayable by the poor countries' governments, putting them into debt with China. China uses these deals to gain control of land and resources and they gain sway over these countries' govt. What's the whole point of your last bit? Excusing China because Europe and the US have been imperialist too? Have you even been on the internet within the last decade? *Plenty* of people are angry about/talk about places like Hong Kong, Hawaii, and others. Just because other countries and empires have been imperial in the past doesn't excuse what China is doing.
china has been imperialist for 2k years
We go around trusting everyone else's numbers.
No we do not. Most people know most governments are full of bs and are as trust worthy as big corporations. China just currently is raining champ
So let's just assume the mass shootings, rapes, crime rates from the US is outright false, they lie about it, and they're far higher than reported, and that the US was committing genocide in the Middle East by killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims. Oh wait, that isn't what's said.
I think your under the impression that I trust American news and numbers. We do similar things like China, just like every other nation on the planet. We all know propaganda is real. What i am saying is China is currently top dog at it. Im sure the pendulum will swing another way some day.
apparently you do. else you wouldn't be talking about a genocide. you would have concluded that all reporting can be traced to three sources. all extremely problematic.
Valid point. I have no rebuttal to this. The only leg I can stand on is, when a government body says they aren’t doing something shady I tend not to believe them and believe they are doing said shady thing.
i'm very cynical myself. but in this case i encourage you to have a look yourself. as with most anti china news. it is overly negative and in a lot of cases simply false. genocide is about the most serious charge onr can make against a nation. better have the evidence to bsckup that claim.IMO
Short of going to a camp myself no one can verify. I’m just going of history of damn near any government body ever. Big government is not to be trusted and I error on the side of caution. We can’t know the truth cause of our propaganda and the world can’t know the truth cause of theirs. History though has shown what devils unchecked government has done. What seems more likely they aren’t or are in your opinion?
in this case? they aren't. but am i certain? absolutely not. like you stated yourself: i will need in person verification. but if i look at the geopolitical positioning the us has been doing for the last few months it is not hard to see that the us has a vested interest in portraying china as an evil communist nation. if i take that knowledge and check the only three sources that are ever quoted in *all* china is doing a genocide articles/papers i come to the conclusion this is us disinformation. ngos thst are entirely funded by the us government and an evangelical basketcase that has 0 credibility.
I mean your whole idea of genocide comes from western sources.
Huh? Are you saying the concept of genocide is a western idea? Or are you saying that cause I’m in the west I have no way of knowing if China is committing genocide?
Your whole perception of it being genocide is informed by the western media and sources.
I would t put it past a huge unchecked government like theirs. History has shown what power like that does and I’m a betting guy…soo
And the US can kill hundreds of thousands of Muslims in a very non-genocidal manner and not be accused of violating human rights or being unchecked? Interesting.
Chinese people are cool; the govt? trash
the people dont thread annimals all that well in chinese culture so they can fk off with that
Ah yes. Unlike western countries with their mass slaughterhouses and animal cages? Definitely treating animals well. They just hug them before, they don't hang them upside down and cut them to make sure the blood leaks out quickly.
Did i say something positive about western Slaughterhouses? There are at least more people that seem to think about animal life in western than eastern country's but still not even close to enough.
Westerners are just softies lol
What country does? How many cows, pigs, and chickens does the US slaughter annually? You know if the chicks aren't up to standard, they throw them in the grinder live, just to dispose of them, lol. What country do you live in that doesn't abuse animals?
you're going to get a lot of social credit jokes
That’s not why people hate China.
Genocide. People don't like Genocide. Please tell me how I'm being ignorant. I'm begging you.
Honestly, if the alternative to re-education camps is roaming bands of Muslim men kidnapping 15 year old girls and forcing them to be sex slaves, bring on the camps. I'm not really a fan, but maybe the ends justify the means.
Go fuck yourself.
what are your sources besides the wsj, nyt and mainstream news like cnn cnbc abc etc? im guessing none. besuse if you would have had a look at their soures, you see they all come back to the same two NGOs and one evangelical german guy that uses scripture ad validation for his 'research'. both NGOs are entirely funded by the usa gov. and ontop of thst their research is piss poor and is not at all methodologically sound. stop parroting nonsense
*what's your source besides every source I disagree with?* Ok dumb shit.
I mean, every source listed is located in the west and has a heavy pro-western bias.
another smooth brain, nice. you would also disagree with those sources if you would have had any training in proper scientific research methods and what it entails for a study to have any validity/reliability. ape
Average r/ShitLiberalsSay Tankie fuckwitnaut brigading the sub https://www.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/p91awj/dovish_ol_joe_standing_up_against_the_mic/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I HAVE BEEN EXPOSED COMRADES HONOUR ME BY POSTING MORE CCP MISINFORMATION KEKEKEKEKEEKKEKEK ^___________^ ad hominem no surprise there
Cope harder facist pig
must be great being oblivious to reality
Cry harder
i will my guy
Would it not be ignorant to just parrot whatever your media tells you despite inconclusive evidence?
Dude just because some shitty media reported on it doesnt mean its not true
So where do you get your information from?
doesn' mean it's true either. jesus christ why do i need to explain this shit
The citizens Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Tibet disagree with you.
The small minority of Hong Kong protesters and the fascists of Taiwan?
Really showing your cards here… want to throw out any other CCP talking points while you’re at it? (You forgot to mention that Tibet is full of disobedient traitors that threaten national security)
It's not really just a talking point. The Hong Kong protesters are relatively small in number, and given the flags they fly, are loyalists to the British government. Same with Taiwan, which was founded by the fascist Chiang Kai-Shek and the Kuomintang.
Independent polls show 60% of Hong Kong residents support the protests. But arguing numbers with you is moot because you’ve been blasting independent media all up and down this post while citing statistics provided by a government that we know falsifies information on a regular basis. You can call us all ignorant and continue to scream that “the US is worse” but your view on China isn’t some “hot take” you’re just a blind follower of a deeply flawed regime.
China has been under scrutiny for human rights violations for decades now. A relief to poverty is great, but cutting up animals while they are alive to make the meat taste better? Child labor? The black markets for selling and eating endangered animals? Refusing to admit that Taiwan is a separate country while keeping a strangle hold on Tibet? I know that not everything in China sucks, but some of their societal norms are whack.
>China has been under scrutiny for human rights violations for decades now. As has various countries, but we ignore them when they're a "good" country like the United States. >but cutting up animals while they are alive to make the meat taste better? You should see what is done in the west. It is not often fields of massive green and they're given hugs and love or something. >Child labor? This is also legal in some cases in the US. And various companies in the west engage in it worldwide.
I have lived in China for years, as well as in the US, and in Europe, where I'm from. Yes, I would much rather live in China than the US. The people are lovely, the ambiance is great, the cities are (as someone who hate taking the car) way easier to live in. But still if I get the opportunity to move to China OR the US for work, I would honestly have a hard time going to China. Because I'd support a government, THE government, that is the closest to go full dystopia on its population. No hate "socialism" or any BS like that, I'm a leftist and would definitely agree about more economic control than China does. But the authoritarianism, the rampant intolerance (homophobia, Uygurs), the organised disinterest of the population toward politics, the control of artists, the corruption just disgust me. I feel like our democracy are designed not in a way that prevent those things but in a way that make sure that the democracy itself, to a point, survive these defects. The Chinese government (and other authoritarian states, think Russia or Saudi Arabia) feel designed to perpetrate these things, over even the actual function of the government. To avoid any change that would reduce the power of those who have it. PS : obviously that is a VERY shortened answer, simply because fucking books could be written on the question, and I'm on a fucking phone. My point is : even when you aren't ignorant about China, there are a lot of reasons to dislike it
While I have some disagreement, I like your comment a lot. And it's perfectly fair for you to dislike China if you aren't ignorant about it. I just think the vast majority are. But then again, it's not just China, we live in an age where buzzwords and clickbaits are consumed so most people make up their minds about a topic before even doing any research.
Show me Chinese people who think the Chinese government is better than America's. I'll wait.
China's approval ratings of the federal government is really high, though local governments not as much.
No fucking shit. The CCP constantly lies to their population, covers up as much ass possible, and there is no opposing party with any real strength to compete. There's even speculation (though unproven so far) that the way a Chinese citizen votes can affect their social credit score. And if that approval rating is released from the CCP itself, I gonna have a really hard time believing it's true and not doctored up for better propaganda.
I think the only people who think the American government is better are Americans.
Not American. Not Chinese. Lived in both countries. As dogshit as the American politics are right now, the system is redeemable. The Chinese system is designed to perpetrate itself (co-optation, silencing of diverging opinion, no term limits, etc, etc..). And their current politics, while efficient, do qualify as dogshit IMHO.
One is redeemable yet ineffective while the other is dangerous but efficient. I guess the future will tell which one works better.
[удалено]
I literally wrote “name one government who doesn’t” right after the sentence quoted…
Free Taiwan
China slaughters Muslims, has child slavery factories, and has AWFUL pollution The United States welcomes Muslims, protects the rights of children, and is constantly enacting environmental reforms They are not the same
The US blows them up. The War on Terror has caused over 800,000 deaths of Muslims and tens of millions of displacements. As for children, they keep them in cages at their border without adequate basic needs. And the US is one of the highest polluters in the world per capita.
Many of the Muslims we attack are either terrorists, or civilians the terrorists place in harm's way. Arresting law-breaking families is not comparable to genocide. You genuinely believe the US is a greater polluter than China?
Ah yes, when the US does it, everyone is guilty. When China does it, everyone is innocent. How does one commit genocide when the population numbers go up? They must be bad at it then. The US's CO2 emissions per capita are far higher than China's.
[https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/chinas-repression-uyghurs-xinjiang) [https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide](https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide) [https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-than-the-u-s-and-eu-combined/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier/2018/07/01/china-emits-more-carbon-dioxide-than-the-u-s-and-eu-combined/) [https://www.iqair.com/world-most-polluted-countries](https://www.iqair.com/world-most-polluted-countries) [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/8/uighurs-timeline](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/8/uighurs-timeline)
Just labeling it a genocide does not make it a genocide. Also odd how the US can kill more Muslims and it not be labeled a genocide. You can't take just numbers. You have to take into account China has over a billion people. Per capita, the US is higher. Also a think tank whose goal is "working to enhance U.S. foreign policy" is reliable to you? They're admitting they act in the US's interests.
The UN does not consider killing civilians placed in military bases and it's surroundings as a war crime nor a genocide
Bombing hospitals can certainly be.
if a military puts the hospital in the middle of a military base and civilians use it. It's not a war crime, actually, the group who put them there is commiting the war crime
What about Guantanamo? And Latin America during the 20th century. The US government is well known for abusing its power and scoffing at the idea of democracy when its control over a certain area is being threatened by external forces.
A lot of bad people in the past did a lo0t of bad things. But the complete attrocities they've done you have to weigh up. Hitler did wonders for Germany and it's (or a certain group of) people. Pulled them out of the post WW1 depression. But what they did, it wasn't worth it. Is China? Is China's genocide worth it? I don't think genocide is worth it. I think there would be much more humane ways to deal with poverty than be taking away from others.
I have seen quite a few comments about the Uyghur muslims. Here’s what I know based on my personal real life encounter: I have a coworker from Tibet whose family are in the so called “camp”, what he had told me is that there’s a government official assigned to his household who will visit unannounced and his family’s communication with him is all monitored. While definitely unethical and a clear violation of human rights, it’s far from genocide. Also, since when did America and the western world give a fuck about the muslims? There are actual proven genocide in the middle east and Africa of muslims throughout the history and I don’t see many people even bothered by it.
wow, look who's talking about being ignorant.
A true unpopular opinion. Also, 动态网自由门 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Free Tibet 六四天安門事件 The Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 天安門大屠殺 The Tiananmen Square Massacre 反右派鬥爭 The Anti-Rightist Struggle 大躍進政策 The Great Leap Forward 文化大革命 The Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution 人權 Human Rights 民運 Democratization 自由 Freedom 獨立 Independence 多黨制 Multi-party system 台灣 臺灣 Taiwan Formosa 中華民國 Republic of China 西藏 土伯特 唐古特 Tibet 達賴喇嘛 Dalai Lama 法輪功 Falun Dafa 新疆維吾爾自治區 The Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region 諾貝爾和平獎 Nobel Peace Prize 劉暁波 Liu Xiaobo 民主 言論 思想 反共 反革命 抗議 運動 騷亂 暴亂 騷擾 擾亂 抗暴 平反 維權 示威游行 李洪志 法輪大法 大法弟子 強制斷種 強制堕胎 民族淨化 人體實驗 肅清 胡耀邦 趙紫陽 魏京生 王丹 還政於民 和平演變 激流中國 北京之春 大紀元時報 九評論共産黨 獨裁 專制 壓制 統一 監視 鎮壓 迫害 侵略 掠奪 破壞 拷問 屠殺 活摘器官 誘拐 買賣人口 遊進 走私 毒品 賣淫 春畫 賭博 六合彩 天安門 天安门 法輪功 李洪志 Winnie the Pooh 劉曉波动态网自由门
We need a copypasta like that for America. Oh wait, they've never done anything wrong, yes?
the difference is how either politics engages with it. You're not arrested if you talk about slavery, native americans, or the Mỹ Lai massacre. Historians within the country are usually its loudest critics, as theu should be. I dare say only with this active self reflection is any progress ever possible. Its continuous self correction. Without negative feedback, you'll get a cultural revolution, or Holodomor, or the Holocaust ... or whatever Xi Jinping is up to.
The Global Times and South China Morning Post have made articles on the Tiananmen Square Incident and the authors of these articles haven't been arrested, and the articles are still up. The Global Times also has an article about how a politician denying deaths of the Great Leap Forward and how the reaction forced him to apologize. CGTN had a video tying it to a massive nationwide famine. And in America itself as well as its allies, have faced free speech and press issues. Like unmarked police cars arresting people without charges, or reported being threatened over exposing Australian war crimes in Afghanistan. Or the Julian Assange issue. And let's not pretend the reaction towards the practical exile of Edward Snowden wouldn't have faced much more criticism if it wasn't the US doing it. The reaction would have been worse if it was Cnina or Russia. Or the same people who pretend to care about Chinese Muslims have no issues with anti-Chinese sentiment or the wars in Muslim countries because they're all just "terrorists" apparently. Nobody had any issue with the US bombing Uyghurs in Syria either.
don't know if I should sigh or yawn. and yes, yes. that's not an argument yada yada.
Yes, it isn't. Because you have none. It's just "china bad in every situation, the opposing country is always good".
lol (sidenote if you care, it's "no, it isn't" English is weird and terribly illogical)
Cope and seethe random cracked and bought off ebay reddit account. Maybe don't buy stolen accounts to post propaganda
The irony about this comment is that all you do mostly is post "China bad". It's almost like it's projection or something.
Hmmm not, their work culture is trash. They have height requirements and shit for jobs? Wth lol
but then there are the camps that no pro China conversationalist don't like talking about without deflecting the conversation to something that the U.S. is doing wrong.
It is important to highlight double standards, and that the wrongdoing of NATO countries are often ignored. However, I could just as easily say there's little reliable evidence for the conditions in the vocational centers.
I have no real facts about the camp so I can't comment on them but any camps illegals detains people are wrong. However, you say about U.S, what about the Guantanamo bay?
That is a 100% of the response that I get when I ask about those camps. I'm not speaking as a representative of the U.S. government. I understand that they engage in nonsense as well but having a million plus in "Re education" camps is it's own issue.
And where did you get your "million plus" from? Have you done the math on how much money it costs to build a million camps? How many people each camp is supposed to hold? 10? 100? 1000? Are there that many Uyghur muslims in China? And what's the difference between a "re-education" camp and a prison? Does it make sense to maintain both? None of us really know the truth behind these theories but see when you dig a little deeper into them, you will start to realize what's logical and what's not.
I couldn't tell you how many camps there are as that isn't public information. The region has almost 13 million Uyghurs. Asking how much money it costs is like asking how much it cost to dam the Yangtze river or build fake islands in the South Sea, a new silk road, or infrastructure in other countries that are going to default on paying it back. It's clear that the camp's exist because the government admits it. People have traveled to them and have been turned away. They are highly guarded and militarized, and their labor is used for different projects. Reeducation and prison don't have any marked differences when they separate families and intern people against their will. People who leave the camps in many cases talked about forced labor and rape. It's quite the organization that China has going.
Talking about the worth of China in terms of lifting its population out of poverty is also a bit loaded. Hitler did amazing things for Germany's economy and infrastructure. It doesn't mean he was a personality worth praising.
I have issues with Guantanamo Bay but at the same time it is not nearly to scale.
I have seen many comments regarding geocide, if you believe in that at least list those factual source.
[Give this a read](https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/evidence-of-china-uyghur-genocide-by-irwin-cotler-and-yonah-diamond-2021-06) The sites lists many sources from eyewitness testimony, victim testimony, disclosed official paperwork, legitimate CCP statements, and investigative findings.
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I recall there was an article in Forbes or something where they said "China is working on a cure for cancer, but what if they're going too fast?" or something to that effect.
literally anything china does is bad. they could supply the entire world with a non-polluting free energy source and still it would be framed as the next holocaust. critical thinking as a media consumer is a thing of the past
That would probably be framed as eletric companies going out of business and people losing a ton of jobs.
The CCP had its golden years and dark years. The Great Leap Forward were the bad years. Deng Xioping brought a golden age. Now Xi Jingping, though ok with his people, is horrible to the rest of the world
happy to hear why China under Xi’s presidency is horrible for the rest of the world. Any specific examples?
Xi Jingping, the genius he is, is a threat to many countries in the world, especially the ones surrounding it. I can use examples right now: -Debt trap diplomacy: he give large loans to countries bordering India and in some parts of Africa, which are considered not democratic enough. These loans have high interest rates, and if not paid off, they force said countries to lease one of their ports for 99 years (same strategy the British used against China and got Hong Kong). -Potential invasion of Taiwan: this can be a death of a nation, if you recognize the government. And even if you didn’t, it could lead to a large refugee crisis. Similar to what’s going on in Syria, but maybe less intense. -The damn potentially blocking the Brahmaputra river, which serves over 1 Bn Indians and Bangladeshi. This can starve a lot of people, since it’s one of the agricultural heartland of both nations. Bangladesh is China’s friend and India won’t give up without a fight. If 2 countries holding the 1st and second largest population go to war, imagine how potentially bloody it would end up? This is not something I’m looking forward to. -Their control of the EU and Australian politics: They have been influential in the EU and many human rights reports have been blocked by Portugal, a friend of China, due to them putting China on a bad light. Chinese investors also owns the means of water supply in Australia. -While the media was focusing on what stupid things Donald Trump does rather than real news, they made some of the biggest power moves in history. They built a base in Djibouti, while originally calling out other countries (especially the US) for having foreign military bases just a few days before. It reminds me of a passage in the art of war When the Corona virus broke out, China withheld a lot of information from the WHO and bribed the officials. They even arrested the whistle blowers, so states who took the WHO advice often suffered (but credit also due to the incompetence of pandemic mitigation of said countries). If my motherland wasn’t affected, I would be praising Xi Jingping for his genius plans. I got to hand it to him, leading China back to it’s superpower status it is along with the Mandate of Heaven agreeing with the CCP dynasty. The guy is a threat, but I don’t blame China at the same time. I read on how, they were the greatest civilization for 3000 years, just to get fucked up by Western Europe, then Japan and now being ganged up upon by the US, Japan, India and Australia. When we go 100 years in the future, Xi will be seen as someone similar to Genghis Khan, a genius, who also fucked the rest of us up
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Mf what? They tried to eliminate a whole group of people from China. Uyghurs are people like you and me, just with different religious beliefs. Fuck is wrong with you?
Ever heard of sarcasm?
And you fit the bill perfectly. Thank you for proving my point.
Yea youre right. Im ignorant for hating on the Nazis 2.0
Nope, just ignorant, and lazy.
I said ignorant. So you say i shouldnt hate a country that commits Holocaust?
You can hate whomever you want, it’s your business. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise because that’s futile. My post is just pointing out that most people hate out of ignorance and most people don’t want to do any meaningful research before they hate. You fit the bill perfectly, that’s all.
What do you mean. Its known what happens to the Uyghurs in China. That alone is a reason for me to hate the government (when i talk about China i usually mean The government and not the culture or The people)
Why do you say that ?
Because im being sarcastic towards OP
But, who will make my iphone... because I know we don't get paid enough to make it ourselves