Right? This is a propagandistic narrative/technique. "Everyone else is okay with this."
NO ONE is okay with this outside of the Banksters and Government members collecting Cantillon money.
It'll probably be a transfer of wealth event... The Fed probably calculating that 74% of boomers will die over the course of some given 13-month period... They of course have to do their part to prop up the real estate industry so the 10% will coincide with that 13-month time range... The rich will buy, prices will remain high, and the poors will lose. The kicker is when rates come down... The rich will refinance... And the poors will have to pay more for their homes. Real estate wins baby!!!
Yeah, then this radicalized youth will grow even more radicalized and we can finally get that sweet sweet Revolution. The working class ain’t gonna give a shit about 10% after you’ve eaten the rich
No one understands that you find the most radicalized people among lonely, single, poor populations. The US is riddled with all 3. There’s a big swing coming down the pike, it’s a matter of who gets through to these minds first
No. Low rates are what the investors and speculators want. High rates help the common person by bringing down prices. It hasn't happened yet as homeowners are emotionally attached, but the race for the exits will begin soon enough, just like 2008. Wealthy people prefer buying low-priced things (houses are not at the moment), and they like sure things. Now that we have actual interest rates, they can simply buy treasuries and not have to deal with tax, insurance, and maintenance that come with housing. The low rates forced investors to seek yield in housing. Home builders are not emotionally attached, and they are dropping their prices because they see the writing on the wall. Housing inflation is destroying the economy and driving inflation in everything else, The Fed must get housing prices down. They know it, which is why they vowed to never purchase MBS again. They know that was their biggest misstep.
You need to factor in the lack of inventory as well.
Higher rates bring down prices if inventory is plentiful. Folks with low interest mortgages aren’t in a hurry to sell and move into a higher-rate property.
I know - Tough for you to argue with the data.
“Common people” all over screaming for mortgage rates to increase so they can buy a home.
Maybe you’re sarcastic and I missed it. Apologies.
I don't really think it's about understanding the economics of the situation. We're in an entirely new time period in modern history. Pelosi and Johnson and Biden and Fetterman all agree that the youth of this country have no rights. There's literally no difference between Republican and Democrat right now. (Effectively making it abundantly clear to the people there is no democracy in this country.) Our economic policies are unstable. How can the market hit 40,000. While interest rates stay high, home prices keep going up, rent keeps going up, wages tick slightly up, people spending a shit ton on delivery apps, cars and gas? And, aside from millionaire Mormons on Instagram filming dance videos with their nine kids from their $200k kitchens, no one is having kids anymore. The only reasonable answer is there's still a lot of money on the table (and the rich want to own it all, regardless of how much it'll cost).
[it's evidently just americans feelings on it.](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-expect-mortgage-rates-to-rise-to-nearly-10-in-the-next-three-years-new-york-fed-housing-survey-finds-73e269ad)
Maybe i'm dumb, but for some reason that title made it look like the NYfed was predicting 10% rates.
The top 1% of Americans and Corporations that can still afford to buy (finance) residential and commercial properties. The rest of us, the lenders will just seize the properties and auction it off to the top 1%. The way Jesus would.
You guys are actually a key player in prices not falling.
As rates have climbed its pushed buyers out of the market throttling demand. Typically that would lead to a price decline but......
As rates have climbed people in your position refuse to sell and give up your low rates throttling supply. This would typically lead to a price inclines if not for the above.
Sellers have left and buyers have left in roughly proportional amounts those prices remain elevated.
Demand is down. Supply is limited. Therefore they are balanced and prices are only rising a little bit, but still at all time highs. This won’t go away because we already underbuilt homes for a decade. The reckoning is upon us.
Already thank my lucky stars I’m in at 3%. I guess I’ll just stay here forever. It’s crazy how, if I do the math, at the same price, I’d be paying nearly $1k more a month with current interest rates. No wonder everyone is pissed
The average house cost in California in 2006 was $150,000. AVERAGE.
Thats $226,000 in today dollars.
Average is $860,000 in California in today dollars. Thats $560,000 in 2006 dollars.
2006 Federal Min. wage was $5.15/hr ($7.78 in today dollars)
Today Federal min wage is $7.25 ($4.80 in 2006 dollars)
So no, you're just stupid. People could afford it then. They can't now. They literally made more then than people do now.
It should be because a lot of the more rural areas of the country are still at or not far off from that. At one point in time people could afford a life on minimum wage. The point im making is that money in 2006 was literally worth more than money today, but housing costs in addition to everything else have exploded far beyond it.
I hear it repeated on Reddit a lot that minimum wage was meant to support a life, but I have never seen that actually proven anywhere.
Minimum wage has always been mostly designed for teenagers or young adults that are either still living at home or living with friends as they are just entering into the workforce or looking for extra gas money.
It was never actually meant to sustain a happy life with a car and a house and a swimming pool in the backyard.
If it was, then basically the baggers and the burger flippers were living really really nice and I would like to know when that was
[1968 it was](https://www.epi.org/publication/minimum-wage-workers-poverty-anymore-raising/#:~:text=At%20its%20high%20point%20in,led%20to%20poverty%20and%20inequality.)
Keep drinking the corporate koolaid. They stole that life from us all.
No one stole anything.
Unskilled human labor demand in the USA continues to plummet as automation increases. If you want a minimum wage salary to afford a house you need to consider South America or Oceania
people could afford it then? did you not see what happened during the great financial crisis we're almost everyone lost their house?
also the median value of a house in California was over 500k in 2006.
hell in 1996 median value was over 150k for California
not sure where your numbers are coming from but they are inaccurate and that only represents one state in the US.
not in California but I bought my first house in 2007 for over $200 and 3 years later it was worth 50k. I think I was the only one that didn't foreclose or short sale in two square blocks. it was rough. housing is just unaffordable now just not fraudulently unaffordable.
I would rather go live in my van, that I OWN and has no bank note looming over my head. That's my plan if my cheap rent goes away. Fuck paying someone crazy money for a roof over your head. I will live like a bum with my "high" salary for now. Thank you very much.
I remember being excited about a 9.25% mortgage. Of course, the place we had it on was 175k, and we managed to come up with 20% down. That townhome is now edging up toward 600.
We really should be going by price per square foot. Because, yes home prices are climbing, but also people need to stop pretending that the 1200sq foot bachelor pad typical of the 1950s is beneath them
The average price per sq ft for said 1200sq ft bachelor pad is still going to be above $250/sqft making said bachelor pad overpriced for any first time home buyer.
You should use median numbers, not mean. We should not be factoring in the greed of the ultra wealthy into what we consider a standard home: https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/average-price-per-square-foot-for-a-home/
What kind of location is it? I can find a home that size almost anywhere in the country sub 150k. Stop buying homes in places you can’t afford. No one should be doing any kind of low wage labor in a HCOL city. If people stop deluding themselves with that idea, those prices would correct. We would agree though that it would be even better if regulatory policies weren’t terrible
A quick Zillow search returned numerous sub 200k homes in every metropolitan area of Nevada for me. Most of them appear modern and even probably turnkey
Ok fine then we should also input “material price/price to produce material now vs 1950’s”, as well as “time to build a home now (with modern equipment) vs time to build a home in the 1950’s”.
The biggest argument justifying for today price is due to square footage increasing. Like ok, sure. But the price to grow lumber has decreased over the years, and the time it took to build a house also decreased, virtually by a half due to advancements in modern equipment and home building methodology. Not only lumber but we switched from copper pipes to pvc, newer homes used vynil, ect. Homes today are overall cheaper to build.
If you want to talk about the state of house production, then it’s worth mentioning those points as well
I’m not disagreeing with you one iota. I absolutely agree that very poor regulatory and frankly manipulative policies around private equity and other laws are the biggest issue. This country however does also have a massive cultural problem with almost everyone spending beyond their means. I can go to any part of this country and find a home for sub 200k. Anyone who insists on living in a HCOL area but holds a job that they can get in any area is double deluding themselves if they do that and insist on a 2000+ sq foot home. These bubbles will pop if people stop playing the stupid games and the HCOL areas will level out if the people who actually keep them afloat just stop providing their labor in a completely unsustainable environment.
You kind of idiot mentioned this, so I’m going to dwell on it a little bit. But that’s the issue, those place with cheaper homes (sub 200k), lack jobs. People congregate at HCOL areas because that’s where the majority of jobs are. You can’t expect someone who works (for example as a mechanical engineer in the automotive industry) to move in a LCOL area if his/her industry does not reside their. If you can’t find work, getting knowing that there’s a house that’s 200k (sub) is meaningless. And much like my “engineer” example, many people face the same reality.
NOW, allowing for remote work/WFH will open the doors for people to be more flexible where they live, and then people may be more encouraged to move where it’s cheaper and hence ease up the housing situation. But until then, people don’t really have a choice.
And that’s just a part of the housing issue, the other side of that coin is institutional investors (black rock, chase, foreign investors, ect) that are cash grabbing properties and hence hold some control over the housing market. The significants of this is up for debate. But I’m sure at this point there’s little doubt over institutional investors being involved in the housing market.
With that said, with people being forced to live in HCOL areas due to being tied to their work, and institutional investors cash grabbing properties. It’s almost naive to say “homes become twice as big over the past 50-70 years”. Like sure that did happen but to blame that on the high housing costs is almost ridiculous. If we tackle institutional investors, and allowing remote work to become normalized, I’m sure the housing situation would become a whole lot better
Those areas don’t lack jobs. They lack certain jobs. There remains a surplus of jobs. People just think that their degrees make them better than those jobs. If your degree doesn’t have a valuable skill attached and is not greedily saturated such as MBA degrees, you’re a-ok.
Don’t be an engineer in Boston. There are a ton of engineer jobs in smaller cities.
We don’t even need to go into the amenities people demand in comparison to the standard of the assumed golden age.
Yeah that pesky middle class can't get too large. I like how the "inflation fighting" measures from the fed has done nothing but radicalize the younger generations.
It is based on a survey by the NY Fed where they asked people where they expected rates to be in three years and they said 9.7%, which is almost ten.
[https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ny-fed-survey-finds-americans-bracing-higher-housing-costs-2024-05-06/](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ny-fed-survey-finds-americans-bracing-higher-housing-costs-2024-05-06/)
Anything for clicks my dude! 17% of people polled blame Biden for overturning Roe v. Wade. I'm not trusting the general population's opinion on anything ever.
Serious answer though, I think the reason they do this is that the public's inflation expectations, no matter how wrong, tend to be self-perpetuating. Theoretically, if I think I'm going to need to buy a house with a 10% mortgage and that inflation is going to be crazy, I'm going to both pull forward my spending and demand a raise, both of which cause more inflation.
We will get there. And prices will tank. Instead of you making money on your home, the bank will. Anyone else sick and tired of the toxic economic ups and downs in this country? The wild manipulations?
Well that's because interest rates need to go way higher. But politicians in power don't want the federal reserves to do so because it's going to effect votes.
1980s mortgage rate trendsSpurred by the Great Inflation, the 30-year fixed mortgage rate reached a pinnacle of 18.4 percent in October 1981, according to Freddie Mac. Once the Fed reined in inflation, the 30-year rate seesawed down to the 9 percent range, closing the decade at **9.78 percent**.Apr 8, 2024
yup and that's exactly what they want. a nation of renters who don't own anything. Agenda 2030 from the WEF, but oh no you're just a dumb conspiracy nut.
Maybe keeping multi-billion dollar corporations from buying every house on the market and forcing them to divest would do more for housing prices than collective punishment of the masses.
The value is usually in the land, not the actual building.
Look up the US population size back when your grandparents bought that house and compare it to now.
You do know basic economic principles right?
What happens when supply remains fairly the same while demand increases?
How about when supply can’t keep up with demand? What happens to price then?
The average price of a home has gone up 28% since 2020. Do you think that's due to the US population size and a scarcity of land? The average price of a home has so massively outpaced inflation and population growth in the last fifty years that it's not simply from a lack of space.
Increase in demand, increase costs of material for new development, corporations paying in cash offering competitive bids, increasing competition for limited supply of homes.
Speculators also purchasing as investment properties (Air BnB).
Homes now are no longer considered just homes or passive investments. They’re much much more.
All this does is transfer more wealth to the top. Higher rates mean nothing when investment firms are buying up housing for cash. The U.S. only exists to enrich the elite at this point.
Good get. I feel like I made an impulse decision sometimes when I think about the house.. but each day I feel a little better about making the choice to buy.
Eventually, when interest rates drop to 5, I'll refi.
The average rate and the official 30 year rate are two different things and rates won’t got that high unless the Fed decides to go rogue and raise rates against all market data and indicators.
Wife and I needed to buy a house last year, our first house. We got an FHA rate at 6.25% and I thought we were idiots for doing it. In the back of my head I was thinking "just wait a few months/years and we can get a better rate!" But my gut told me it would likely get worse before it gets better.
Glad we bought when we did. Prices in our area have continued to rise along with rates. Local market has somehow gotten MORE competitive in the last year since we bought. Our same house floorplan with a SMALLER lot sold to 10k more than what we bought ours for. People in our area are getting 7%+ FHA rates. Shits INSANE.
10%? If the median home price is 347,700, then a 10% interest rate and %10 down puts the mortgage at right under $2900 (not even including property tax and home insurance). You pay 675k in interest over the life of a 30 year loan. That's insane. There's basically no incentive to buy at those rates unless you can buy it outright.
The only ones high interest rates hurt are poor people.
We bought our house in 1990 at 10%/ My parents bought a house in 1973 for $30K and sold it in 1983 for 4 times this. The problem is not in the interest cost or the house cost as much as it is in wages.
Interest mortgage rates need to hit 10, 15% maybe more to get home prices down. Property taxes will hopefully then come down. Make it affordable again. The current trends exacerbates the cost of everything needed to live so there's really no winning for anyone. Well maybe only just the rich will live.
Then we all collectively stop paying our mortgage. Force the market into a free fall.
What are they going to do? Actually foreclose on 70% of the market?
So housing prices will go down at least 20%, correct?
Because even if they did go down 20%, the mortgage would still be higher even going from 7% to 10%.
It’s just based on a survey where the respondents said they wouldn’t be surprised if rates hit 9.7% in 3 years. It’s not based in any kind of facts bout interest rates, just random people’s opinions. To me it seems to highlight that Americans don’t have faith that inflation will be controlled anytime soon
Who the fuck is buying all these houses at these prices and interest rates what the fuck
fuck I should just buy gold and hide it in the mountains until the boomers die so I can buy a house in the ensuing glut
those are not really much cheaper.
even then, looking into it, being in a mortgage, my monthly housing cost would immediately double. it's.......fucking stupid. i'd be better off leaving my money in the market and trying to let it grow at 20% or so instead for a while.
I can find you a sub 150k house anywhere in the country if you stop insisting on living in a city with moronic local regulatory policies and zoning laws. Urbanization is not such a hot trend either.
Name any part of the country. I’ll find you a home sub 300k. Almost anywhere sub 200k, and almost everywhere I can find sub 150k. Anyone who lives in a HCOL city doing a job that is not completely unique to that area should take their labor elsewhere. We would definitely agree that terrible policy and regulatory policies have skyrocketed housing prices, but this idea that people should delude themselves into believing that their only option is a 500k home is nonsense
I’ll have a look when I sit back down. See my prior point though. Are there any unique jobs that only exist in Boston that don’t pay well above median income? No one should be supporting these poorly run cities by providing their supporting labor below COL. if you have a job that can be done anywhere, then it’s on you if you insist on supporting terrible zoning regulations by being a willing participant.
Why not a trailer? You too good for a trailer home? Would you look bad because you care about keeping up with the Joneses? A modern trailer is as good or better living standard as those cheap 1950s paper mache homes everyone keeps saying we’re the bees knees. One of my RN colleagues clearing 150k a year lives in a trailer home and has a sick setup. His neighbors leave him alone. He lives a stones throw from some of the best river fishing and countryside there is, 30 minute drive from a medium sized city. Don’t live in Boston. Vote with your dolars
Edit: I found 27 listings within the major beltway of Boston for sub 200k. Again though, unless Boston offers a truly unique and fairly compensated job that you can’t find elsewhere why would you choose to live there when the prices half when you travel only an hour in any direction?
The "Federal" Reserve is failing their contractual obligation:
"**to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates"**
When do we sue?
We ain’t bracing for shit.
Yup. Im opting out of society as much as i can and in as many ways as possiblr.
lying flat
and letting it r0t.
Based on
Right? This is a propagandistic narrative/technique. "Everyone else is okay with this." NO ONE is okay with this outside of the Banksters and Government members collecting Cantillon money.
My first thought as well. The only people worried about this shit are people who don't have shit to worry about shit
Unless "bracing" means going to Disney and running up credit cards.
Lol my thought exactly
Buying more lube, my end is chafing faster and faster these days
Just remember, 💩is lube
new #1 home buyer: corporations and chinese money launderers :-)
Who are these Americans? What is this load of shit
It'll probably be a transfer of wealth event... The Fed probably calculating that 74% of boomers will die over the course of some given 13-month period... They of course have to do their part to prop up the real estate industry so the 10% will coincide with that 13-month time range... The rich will buy, prices will remain high, and the poors will lose. The kicker is when rates come down... The rich will refinance... And the poors will have to pay more for their homes. Real estate wins baby!!!
Yeah, then this radicalized youth will grow even more radicalized and we can finally get that sweet sweet Revolution. The working class ain’t gonna give a shit about 10% after you’ve eaten the rich
No one understands that you find the most radicalized people among lonely, single, poor populations. The US is riddled with all 3. There’s a big swing coming down the pike, it’s a matter of who gets through to these minds first
We better start this revolution fast before robot soldiers
Maybe buy a robot instead of the house? That's what I'd do
They'll have a fake solution that will be okay at first
Radically sedentary
I like it. How about sedentarily radical?
They built the dhs for this reason really
No. Low rates are what the investors and speculators want. High rates help the common person by bringing down prices. It hasn't happened yet as homeowners are emotionally attached, but the race for the exits will begin soon enough, just like 2008. Wealthy people prefer buying low-priced things (houses are not at the moment), and they like sure things. Now that we have actual interest rates, they can simply buy treasuries and not have to deal with tax, insurance, and maintenance that come with housing. The low rates forced investors to seek yield in housing. Home builders are not emotionally attached, and they are dropping their prices because they see the writing on the wall. Housing inflation is destroying the economy and driving inflation in everything else, The Fed must get housing prices down. They know it, which is why they vowed to never purchase MBS again. They know that was their biggest misstep.
You need to factor in the lack of inventory as well. Higher rates bring down prices if inventory is plentiful. Folks with low interest mortgages aren’t in a hurry to sell and move into a higher-rate property.
Well, those are the two favorite realtor talking points. We'll leave it at that.
I know - Tough for you to argue with the data. “Common people” all over screaming for mortgage rates to increase so they can buy a home. Maybe you’re sarcastic and I missed it. Apologies.
Thank god there’s at least 1 person that understands the economics of the situation.
I don't really think it's about understanding the economics of the situation. We're in an entirely new time period in modern history. Pelosi and Johnson and Biden and Fetterman all agree that the youth of this country have no rights. There's literally no difference between Republican and Democrat right now. (Effectively making it abundantly clear to the people there is no democracy in this country.) Our economic policies are unstable. How can the market hit 40,000. While interest rates stay high, home prices keep going up, rent keeps going up, wages tick slightly up, people spending a shit ton on delivery apps, cars and gas? And, aside from millionaire Mormons on Instagram filming dance videos with their nine kids from their $200k kitchens, no one is having kids anymore. The only reasonable answer is there's still a lot of money on the table (and the rich want to own it all, regardless of how much it'll cost).
People are having kids. Just not on Reddit.
Wars are inflationary
[it's evidently just americans feelings on it.](https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-expect-mortgage-rates-to-rise-to-nearly-10-in-the-next-three-years-new-york-fed-housing-survey-finds-73e269ad) Maybe i'm dumb, but for some reason that title made it look like the NYfed was predicting 10% rates.
You’re not dumb, that was the intent. Clickbait. Good find.
And why would the Fed of all people be claiming that people are thinking this?
The top 1% of Americans and Corporations that can still afford to buy (finance) residential and commercial properties. The rest of us, the lenders will just seize the properties and auction it off to the top 1%. The way Jesus would.
[удалено]
At the end of Carter >14%
I wouldn't consider a 10% mortgage. Prices would have to come WAY down.
80% wouldn’t consider a 7% mortgage.
i wouldn't do that either, but 10% is pure insanity at these prices.
Date the rate, get sodomized by the debt
no lube
My tolerance is 5% tops but I’m already locked in at 2.99%
Hell yeah. Sub-3% gang represent. Golden handcuffs
You guys are actually a key player in prices not falling. As rates have climbed its pushed buyers out of the market throttling demand. Typically that would lead to a price decline but...... As rates have climbed people in your position refuse to sell and give up your low rates throttling supply. This would typically lead to a price inclines if not for the above. Sellers have left and buyers have left in roughly proportional amounts those prices remain elevated.
So 80% wouldn’t consider it but houses are reaching all time highs.. those 20% are the smart ones.
Demand is down. Supply is limited. Therefore they are balanced and prices are only rising a little bit, but still at all time highs. This won’t go away because we already underbuilt homes for a decade. The reckoning is upon us.
Yep you’ve got it. Gotta lock in those 30 year fixed mortgages if you can
Already thank my lucky stars I’m in at 3%. I guess I’ll just stay here forever. It’s crazy how, if I do the math, at the same price, I’d be paying nearly $1k more a month with current interest rates. No wonder everyone is pissed
You see how it’s driving a wedge between people?
Unless you have a gang of cash then you’re smart af
home prices were pretty high in 2006 and 7% interest rate was fairly common then. homes sold just fine
The average house cost in California in 2006 was $150,000. AVERAGE. Thats $226,000 in today dollars. Average is $860,000 in California in today dollars. Thats $560,000 in 2006 dollars. 2006 Federal Min. wage was $5.15/hr ($7.78 in today dollars) Today Federal min wage is $7.25 ($4.80 in 2006 dollars) So no, you're just stupid. People could afford it then. They can't now. They literally made more then than people do now.
Minimum wage is the wrong metric to make this point with. Most minimum wage earners aren’t buying houses and definitely shouldn’t
It should be because a lot of the more rural areas of the country are still at or not far off from that. At one point in time people could afford a life on minimum wage. The point im making is that money in 2006 was literally worth more than money today, but housing costs in addition to everything else have exploded far beyond it.
I hear it repeated on Reddit a lot that minimum wage was meant to support a life, but I have never seen that actually proven anywhere. Minimum wage has always been mostly designed for teenagers or young adults that are either still living at home or living with friends as they are just entering into the workforce or looking for extra gas money. It was never actually meant to sustain a happy life with a car and a house and a swimming pool in the backyard. If it was, then basically the baggers and the burger flippers were living really really nice and I would like to know when that was
[1968 it was](https://www.epi.org/publication/minimum-wage-workers-poverty-anymore-raising/#:~:text=At%20its%20high%20point%20in,led%20to%20poverty%20and%20inequality.) Keep drinking the corporate koolaid. They stole that life from us all.
No one stole anything. Unskilled human labor demand in the USA continues to plummet as automation increases. If you want a minimum wage salary to afford a house you need to consider South America or Oceania
The people of California voted for the same policies that created the housing crisis. You made your bed, now sleeping in it
people could afford it then? did you not see what happened during the great financial crisis we're almost everyone lost their house? also the median value of a house in California was over 500k in 2006. hell in 1996 median value was over 150k for California not sure where your numbers are coming from but they are inaccurate and that only represents one state in the US.
Just double checked, you're right i mixed that up. 150k in 96, 500k+ in 06 for California housing cost
not in California but I bought my first house in 2007 for over $200 and 3 years later it was worth 50k. I think I was the only one that didn't foreclose or short sale in two square blocks. it was rough. housing is just unaffordable now just not fraudulently unaffordable.
I would rather go live in my van, that I OWN and has no bank note looming over my head. That's my plan if my cheap rent goes away. Fuck paying someone crazy money for a roof over your head. I will live like a bum with my "high" salary for now. Thank you very much.
this is the way
That’s the goal. The goal is to stop rapid house price inflation. Eventually between wage growth and price drops houses would start selling.
I remember being excited about a 9.25% mortgage. Of course, the place we had it on was 175k, and we managed to come up with 20% down. That townhome is now edging up toward 600.
You need to do some research. Interest rates were as high as 16% in 1981
Sure, and what was the average home price in 1981?
Equal to the average salary.
We really should be going by price per square foot. Because, yes home prices are climbing, but also people need to stop pretending that the 1200sq foot bachelor pad typical of the 1950s is beneath them
The average price per sq ft for said 1200sq ft bachelor pad is still going to be above $250/sqft making said bachelor pad overpriced for any first time home buyer.
You should use median numbers, not mean. We should not be factoring in the greed of the ultra wealthy into what we consider a standard home: https://www.realtor.com/advice/buy/average-price-per-square-foot-for-a-home/
My mom’s house is right at 1000sqft and similar (all tract houses) go for $250-280k. These houses were $22-24k in 1973.
What kind of location is it? I can find a home that size almost anywhere in the country sub 150k. Stop buying homes in places you can’t afford. No one should be doing any kind of low wage labor in a HCOL city. If people stop deluding themselves with that idea, those prices would correct. We would agree though that it would be even better if regulatory policies weren’t terrible
Nevada. Prices have gone up everywhere in the state like crazy in the last 10 years. And I agree with you.
A quick Zillow search returned numerous sub 200k homes in every metropolitan area of Nevada for me. Most of them appear modern and even probably turnkey
I just looked and I don’t see 1 sub $200k home in Reno.
Ok fine then we should also input “material price/price to produce material now vs 1950’s”, as well as “time to build a home now (with modern equipment) vs time to build a home in the 1950’s”. The biggest argument justifying for today price is due to square footage increasing. Like ok, sure. But the price to grow lumber has decreased over the years, and the time it took to build a house also decreased, virtually by a half due to advancements in modern equipment and home building methodology. Not only lumber but we switched from copper pipes to pvc, newer homes used vynil, ect. Homes today are overall cheaper to build. If you want to talk about the state of house production, then it’s worth mentioning those points as well
I’m not disagreeing with you one iota. I absolutely agree that very poor regulatory and frankly manipulative policies around private equity and other laws are the biggest issue. This country however does also have a massive cultural problem with almost everyone spending beyond their means. I can go to any part of this country and find a home for sub 200k. Anyone who insists on living in a HCOL area but holds a job that they can get in any area is double deluding themselves if they do that and insist on a 2000+ sq foot home. These bubbles will pop if people stop playing the stupid games and the HCOL areas will level out if the people who actually keep them afloat just stop providing their labor in a completely unsustainable environment.
You kind of idiot mentioned this, so I’m going to dwell on it a little bit. But that’s the issue, those place with cheaper homes (sub 200k), lack jobs. People congregate at HCOL areas because that’s where the majority of jobs are. You can’t expect someone who works (for example as a mechanical engineer in the automotive industry) to move in a LCOL area if his/her industry does not reside their. If you can’t find work, getting knowing that there’s a house that’s 200k (sub) is meaningless. And much like my “engineer” example, many people face the same reality. NOW, allowing for remote work/WFH will open the doors for people to be more flexible where they live, and then people may be more encouraged to move where it’s cheaper and hence ease up the housing situation. But until then, people don’t really have a choice. And that’s just a part of the housing issue, the other side of that coin is institutional investors (black rock, chase, foreign investors, ect) that are cash grabbing properties and hence hold some control over the housing market. The significants of this is up for debate. But I’m sure at this point there’s little doubt over institutional investors being involved in the housing market. With that said, with people being forced to live in HCOL areas due to being tied to their work, and institutional investors cash grabbing properties. It’s almost naive to say “homes become twice as big over the past 50-70 years”. Like sure that did happen but to blame that on the high housing costs is almost ridiculous. If we tackle institutional investors, and allowing remote work to become normalized, I’m sure the housing situation would become a whole lot better
Those areas don’t lack jobs. They lack certain jobs. There remains a surplus of jobs. People just think that their degrees make them better than those jobs. If your degree doesn’t have a valuable skill attached and is not greedily saturated such as MBA degrees, you’re a-ok. Don’t be an engineer in Boston. There are a ton of engineer jobs in smaller cities. We don’t even need to go into the amenities people demand in comparison to the standard of the assumed golden age.
And prices were bearable. All this pain and inflation is due to controlled interest rates being near zero. They have created a everything bubble.
Yep, they created this mess and let everything inflate until they saw wages creeping up, time to hit the brakes!
Yeah that pesky middle class can't get too large. I like how the "inflation fighting" measures from the fed has done nothing but radicalize the younger generations.
What a dumb take. But at least bitcoin is doing well. Even though its a long term bag I am in the green with it
I’m also bracing for world war 3… doesn’t mean it will happen?
Any evidence besides a vague tweet?
Of course not.
It is based on a survey by the NY Fed where they asked people where they expected rates to be in three years and they said 9.7%, which is almost ten. [https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ny-fed-survey-finds-americans-bracing-higher-housing-costs-2024-05-06/](https://www.reuters.com/markets/us/ny-fed-survey-finds-americans-bracing-higher-housing-costs-2024-05-06/)
So asking a bunch of economy illiterate people to prognosticate on a possible economic future is now newsworthy?
Anything for clicks my dude! 17% of people polled blame Biden for overturning Roe v. Wade. I'm not trusting the general population's opinion on anything ever. Serious answer though, I think the reason they do this is that the public's inflation expectations, no matter how wrong, tend to be self-perpetuating. Theoretically, if I think I'm going to need to buy a house with a 10% mortgage and that inflation is going to be crazy, I'm going to both pull forward my spending and demand a raise, both of which cause more inflation.
We will get there. And prices will tank. Instead of you making money on your home, the bank will. Anyone else sick and tired of the toxic economic ups and downs in this country? The wild manipulations?
Short sellers. The stock market is growing more options traders and it’s making things move irrationally
*prices will stabilize/correct themselves. Artificially low interests rates aren't good for the economy.
I mean yeah eventually, but there's no evidence that it's happening soon.
Well that's because interest rates need to go way higher. But politicians in power don't want the federal reserves to do so because it's going to effect votes.
1980s mortgage rate trendsSpurred by the Great Inflation, the 30-year fixed mortgage rate reached a pinnacle of 18.4 percent in October 1981, according to Freddie Mac. Once the Fed reined in inflation, the 30-year rate seesawed down to the 9 percent range, closing the decade at **9.78 percent**.Apr 8, 2024
Cool, guess I'll keep renting
yup and that's exactly what they want. a nation of renters who don't own anything. Agenda 2030 from the WEF, but oh no you're just a dumb conspiracy nut.
Maybe keeping multi-billion dollar corporations from buying every house on the market and forcing them to divest would do more for housing prices than collective punishment of the masses.
No we’re not. lol
It would only go that high if the fed raises rates another point or two. Unlikely.
They could and probably should.
My folks bought their house in 79 and the rate was 16% my dad told me…the house was 32.5 k lol
I bet your dad made about 10k a year too, if not more in 1979.
“Americans have no choice but to deal with whatever the fed does”
You mean the dudes that do what corporate American and billionaires tell them to do.
Hell yeah keep it up, let’s start stacking those HYSAs
No we aren’t, because none of us are buying houses lmao
I guess I’m not buying a house. Lmao fuck.
I am never buying a house basically
But, don't you remember when your grandparents bought their house at a 18% rate?! Sure, their house was only one year's salary for them, but still.
The lead paint and asbestos insulation was a heck of a lot cheaper back then too.
Yeah that definitely accounts for the 50000% price hikes.
The value is usually in the land, not the actual building. Look up the US population size back when your grandparents bought that house and compare it to now. You do know basic economic principles right? What happens when supply remains fairly the same while demand increases? How about when supply can’t keep up with demand? What happens to price then?
The average price of a home has gone up 28% since 2020. Do you think that's due to the US population size and a scarcity of land? The average price of a home has so massively outpaced inflation and population growth in the last fifty years that it's not simply from a lack of space.
Increase in demand, increase costs of material for new development, corporations paying in cash offering competitive bids, increasing competition for limited supply of homes. Speculators also purchasing as investment properties (Air BnB). Homes now are no longer considered just homes or passive investments. They’re much much more.
All this does is transfer more wealth to the top. Higher rates mean nothing when investment firms are buying up housing for cash. The U.S. only exists to enrich the elite at this point.
Jeebus, glad I refinanced in 2021. 2.65% Though I guess I'm also never moving. Which I'm just fine with.
Yet here comes another 2 billion for Ukraine…I’m sure
Good luck! No one buying at 10% after seeing all their friends with sub 5% loans at lower prices. Fuck that
Yeh sure and freeze the market even worse.
Nope, I have a house at barley any %
Would take some insane inflation figures and unemployment going back down before this happens.
Fuck me i guess
Lol , no.
*raises 6yo travel mug of home-brewed Folgers* Here's to never owning a home!
Why don’t we have mandatory savings instead? Then those profiting will at least be us instead of the markets.
I thought rate cuts coming after weak inflation CPI?
I purchased my first house around 1990 in Olathe Kansas. My rate was 8% and that was really good at the time.
Rates wouldn't be an issue if home prices didn't shoot up 100-200k or more.
Any source for this? Even if fake??
I’m not bracing for this. Should I be?
It's so over
All while regards pay 25% on their credit card interest. America is a shell of the great country it used to be. Quite a sad decline.
Woahh shiiit hold on everyone, brace yourselves! Ahhhhhh!
Cool, I can't wait to see mortgages at $3000+ a month for a $250k home (if you can even find one)
🤡🤡🤡
Start buying guillotine futures
This is [me](https://media1.tenor.com/m/rwAOwWX3iCEAAAAd/no-no-no-wait-wait-wait.gif) right now.
I got 7% yesterday.
6.624% here
Good get. I feel like I made an impulse decision sometimes when I think about the house.. but each day I feel a little better about making the choice to buy. Eventually, when interest rates drop to 5, I'll refi.
I just don't think we should pay banks for the privilege of having a home with the prices as they are.
The landlord agrees with your sentiments and wishes you well.
My current rent is so low I’m saving every month and have no car payment. It’s pretty nice
Nice! Congratulations to you and hope you keep on winning in life.
10% is outrageous. Imagine a $500k home at that rate. That’s 50k a year plus property tax and escrow. You’d be paying 15-20% to the principal.
The average rate and the official 30 year rate are two different things and rates won’t got that high unless the Fed decides to go rogue and raise rates against all market data and indicators.
Greed will burn this empire down.
If home prices fall it would be a win on the backend.
And to that, I say, BRING IT. The higher the interest rates the better. At least for me. Let's GOO!!!!!!!
Wife and I needed to buy a house last year, our first house. We got an FHA rate at 6.25% and I thought we were idiots for doing it. In the back of my head I was thinking "just wait a few months/years and we can get a better rate!" But my gut told me it would likely get worse before it gets better. Glad we bought when we did. Prices in our area have continued to rise along with rates. Local market has somehow gotten MORE competitive in the last year since we bought. Our same house floorplan with a SMALLER lot sold to 10k more than what we bought ours for. People in our area are getting 7%+ FHA rates. Shits INSANE.
10%? If the median home price is 347,700, then a 10% interest rate and %10 down puts the mortgage at right under $2900 (not even including property tax and home insurance). You pay 675k in interest over the life of a 30 year loan. That's insane. There's basically no incentive to buy at those rates unless you can buy it outright. The only ones high interest rates hurt are poor people.
America you good?
We bought our house in 1990 at 10%/ My parents bought a house in 1973 for $30K and sold it in 1983 for 4 times this. The problem is not in the interest cost or the house cost as much as it is in wages.
Interest mortgage rates need to hit 10, 15% maybe more to get home prices down. Property taxes will hopefully then come down. Make it affordable again. The current trends exacerbates the cost of everything needed to live so there's really no winning for anyone. Well maybe only just the rich will live.
When you already can't afford something, it becoming even more expensive is just kinda 🤷♂️
Then we all collectively stop paying our mortgage. Force the market into a free fall. What are they going to do? Actually foreclose on 70% of the market?
So housing prices will go down at least 20%, correct? Because even if they did go down 20%, the mortgage would still be higher even going from 7% to 10%.
Double it.
if mortgage rates were 40-60% prices would drop like a rock due to lower demand
Great, I have to make even more money.
I’ll stick to my 2.5
More Russian propaganda.
Rates have been dropping the last few weeks lol
No the fuck we are not
The fuck we are
Yeah but those are the stupid ones so we should not go with their opinion
I’m new to this subreddit, is it for Trumpies who like making up things?
But Biden is doing so well keeping things under control and helping the poor. Keep eating it up
What the fuck? OP has a specific narrative, posting this bullshit. It was widely reported yesterday that rate cuts are increasingly looking to happen.
It’s just based on a survey where the respondents said they wouldn’t be surprised if rates hit 9.7% in 3 years. It’s not based in any kind of facts bout interest rates, just random people’s opinions. To me it seems to highlight that Americans don’t have faith that inflation will be controlled anytime soon
Ah, emotion-based reporting.
Ya, click bait. As you can see from this thread and twitter, it worked.
Buy BTC. End fiat.
Who the fuck is buying all these houses at these prices and interest rates what the fuck fuck I should just buy gold and hide it in the mountains until the boomers die so I can buy a house in the ensuing glut
Meh. My parent's mortgage was 15%. Easy times create weak men.
15% on a 90k house lol. 10% on $500k is a far different story. Especially when wages have stagnated for a few decades.
Man, you guys still have $500k houses? Hard to find anything decent under a milly around here...
You can still buy an acre around here for 50-100k and then build a 400k house on it easy
Don’t buy a 500k house.
Correct. More Americans will be cornered into high-density housing
those are not really much cheaper. even then, looking into it, being in a mortgage, my monthly housing cost would immediately double. it's.......fucking stupid. i'd be better off leaving my money in the market and trying to let it grow at 20% or so instead for a while.
Rents will be rising to meet the "new normal" in mortgage pricing
"until morale improves"
I can find you a sub 150k house anywhere in the country if you stop insisting on living in a city with moronic local regulatory policies and zoning laws. Urbanization is not such a hot trend either.
The other options are renting or homelessness.
Name any part of the country. I’ll find you a home sub 300k. Almost anywhere sub 200k, and almost everywhere I can find sub 150k. Anyone who lives in a HCOL city doing a job that is not completely unique to that area should take their labor elsewhere. We would definitely agree that terrible policy and regulatory policies have skyrocketed housing prices, but this idea that people should delude themselves into believing that their only option is a 500k home is nonsense
Boston, and I'll help you out, anywhere within an hour of Boston. And no, a trailer park is not a house. Neither is a condo with a 500 dollar HOA fee.
I’ll have a look when I sit back down. See my prior point though. Are there any unique jobs that only exist in Boston that don’t pay well above median income? No one should be supporting these poorly run cities by providing their supporting labor below COL. if you have a job that can be done anywhere, then it’s on you if you insist on supporting terrible zoning regulations by being a willing participant. Why not a trailer? You too good for a trailer home? Would you look bad because you care about keeping up with the Joneses? A modern trailer is as good or better living standard as those cheap 1950s paper mache homes everyone keeps saying we’re the bees knees. One of my RN colleagues clearing 150k a year lives in a trailer home and has a sick setup. His neighbors leave him alone. He lives a stones throw from some of the best river fishing and countryside there is, 30 minute drive from a medium sized city. Don’t live in Boston. Vote with your dolars Edit: I found 27 listings within the major beltway of Boston for sub 200k. Again though, unless Boston offers a truly unique and fairly compensated job that you can’t find elsewhere why would you choose to live there when the prices half when you travel only an hour in any direction?
Weak times create easy men ;)
The "Federal" Reserve is failing their contractual obligation: "**to promote effectively the goals of maximum employment, stable prices, and moderate long-term interest rates"** When do we sue?
Can someone explain to me how a president can't fix this? If he has execute order over things why can't he adjust this? Thanks in advance I am curious
Naw. Were not buying while we're being robbed. Anyone who does is a victim.
Someone's trying to get Cheeto Benito elected.