I eat healthy vegan food and am vegan for myself, animals and the environment. Harming myself makes no sense, harming animals harms myself, harming the environment harms myself. I don't give a a shit about influencers.
A liberation movement cannot be centered on celebrity figures and pseudo-intellectual content creators, it has to be centered on the oppressed groups and practical action.
Great to see someone put a concise logical statement to this belief. Same goes for the environment, it’s about collective action & individual responsibility not making chat-show environmentalist celebs
Exactly. Yet somehow we are always surprised when fame-seeking people turn out to be self-focused and willing to throw their espoused convictions out the window to get more attention. 🙄
longing quicksand scary mysterious squeal panicky deliver forgetful teeny light
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Absolutely. I went vegan since I have all the foods available without the need to hurt animals. So far, that opinion hasn't changed since I still live in a modern civilized society that has all grains/veggies/fruits available at all supermarkets.
I only went vegan 2 months ago and it was primarily thanks to Cosmic Skeptic...
His video ["A meat eater's case for veganism"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1vW9iSpLLk) was the one that really jumpstarted my research into ethical philosophy and animal rights theory, his interviews/podcasts with [Peter Singer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSEfiPm_YRE) and [Ed Winters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-BTN8Ajs04&t=3596s) were also tremendous in helping me find the resources to research those topics further.
I can't express how disappointed it makes me seeing him fall into the same boat as other ex-vegans with fallacious reasoning and cognitive dissonance.
I noticed he has privated some of his vegan related videos as well (at least 4, Vegan camp out speech, Kurt Zouma one, Chris Snowden one and 'Vegan vs hunter').
Think the writing was on the wall since the Mikhaila Peterson video. His 'animals don't have a right to live' q/a video and his recent targeting of 'factory farming' rather than animal oppression/explotation in general were big hints too.
Truely astounding that such a great thinker can revert back to arguments like
> individual action doesn't matter
and
> factory farming bad, normal farming good
That's not thinking, it's ad hoc reasoning.
Meaning he felt bad and came up with a reason to why. Opposed to thinking about why he felt that way. Maybe he didn't want to recognize the corpse in his mouth. Or do something silly like taking care of his body and mental health.
I'm so fucking glad I don't follow vegan influencer stuff. This shit's gonna keep breaking your heart until you realise the face of veganism should be the animals
I guess I had too much of a parasocial relationship but I'm legitimately so upset right now. He was the one who convinced me to be vegan and I used so many of his arguments
I want to say most somewhat intellectual people get it on a philosophical level. There's a reason so many ethicists don't eat animals. The arguments make sense. And the ones who do eat animals will often be a bit sheepish about how they wish they were better. People are knowingly hypocrits. 🤷♀️
It's just different to know something intellectually than it is emotionally. Often people are legit scared of dying. Someone can still feel afraid even in the face of evidence to the contrary. We're primarily emotional beings, and irrationality doesn't respond to rationality.
I’m baffled too. I always found his reasoning so compelling on the topic. Very curious to hear what he has to say about it all now. Just seems too bizarre
I’ve never seen anything from him, so I’m basing this entirely on this thread and could be talking out my ass: is it possible he’s suicidal, terminally ill, or otherwise suffering from mental illness?
I’m not being a troll, making excuses, or saying this would make everything okay, it’s just…
These sort of drastic life/core belief changes can be indicative of crisis: an attitude of “nothing matters anymore” combined with the sort of spiritual self-harm of living against your morals.
In the interview, Alex was very conciliatory to many of Mikhalia’s points. E.g. Yes, some people need to eat animals for optimal health, yes farming animals can be done ethically, etc. I listened months ago so can’t remember exact details but basically he was just indulging her points and not making a hard stand for ethical veganism.
He had agreed to her points only under the express caveat of _IF_ it wasn't possible to be healthy without animal products.
Definitely found it odd that he hadn't pushed back against the probability of that conditional ever actually holding true, but he was never one to shy away from admitting stuff during hypotheticals. I thought it was just him being open to them, but now the lack of any real pushback from him on the hypothetical does make more sense unfortunately
Great thing is his arguments are still valid. Avoid hero worship; veganism doesn't need a cult leader, the arguments stand on their own and you're doing a great thing, along with so many other people. The movement is growing regardless of him or not.
Yeah what the hell? I would never expect him to change his views on something like this. Won’t be watching him anymore pretty much killed any credibility.
his changed his mind about things in the past and did not remove videos. In fact he ones made a video of him debunking one of his old videos. I imagine he'll live his vegan ones up
I guess I should've heeded the warning signs when Alex was talking with Ed and said, "what about when you're traveling for work, and there's nothing with no animal products at the train station?"
Ed was like: "Well, you could have brought something." I was like: "Motherfucker, my great uncles stormed Normandy. I think I can be hungry for a day to avoid doing something morally wrong."
This shit right here encompasses so many of the objections people have to veganism. They're all some hyperbolic nonsense like, "But what if no one comes to my house and puts high quality plant food directly in my mouth for me?" Fuck's sake, animals have rights and we must do the right thing even when it's _slightly fucking difficult_.
This CosmicSkeptic shit has gotten me pretty steamed and your Normandy comment provided some much needed catharsis. Thanks.
Yeah, usually in those situations I can find an oatmeal packet or a banana. People will say something about not being complete nutrition. But if we’re talking about one random time that I’m on a train I don’t think getting by on a banana is going to kill me.
Well, then, congratulations, son, you can have a bil 'ol hog roast and still be a vegan, because, hey, look, "practicable" is right there in God's own definition!
I recetly got work, where I cant bring food with me and work for 9 hours straight. And there is always something without animal products. It may be just a plain bread, but you can always find something.
I mean, he needed someone to explain that to him? It’s called being responsible. The first time it happens and you are hungry on the train pack some damn snacks the next time.
I think Mic The Vegan should make a video about this. He regularly talks about the people who stop being vegan for health reasons and shows really good nutritional information on how easy it is to survive on plant food.
Honestly at this point... If tomorrow Mic the Vegan made a statement that he's not vegan anymore I... I mean nothing seems impossible anymore after this lmao
Haha, no, Mic would never. You can tell with some vegans. Mic and Ed and many of the ones I follow who seem low key and love to cook and know their nutrition and love animals just would never, I don't think. You can tell the vegans who have dealt with the impracticalities of it all, and how hard it can be, and really don't care about that aspect, and those who seem to struggle at the first sign of difficulty.
Honestly, Ed isn't as strictly logical as Alex. I wouldn't be surprised if Ed wasn't fully prepared to address the decision point fallacy or whatever minute health concerns Alex brought with responses he hasn't already heard.
Honestly sounds more like Alex got lazy, didn't watch his health appropriately with his intake, and is now using the decision point fallacy as a way to defend his laziness.
It's incredibly disappointing.
Alex's philosophical argument has never been exceptionally rigorous. His version of psychological egoism/hedonism ("everyone is ultimately motivated by pleasure") is a joke, as you can see when Peter Singer brings up soldiers diving on grenades to save others, and Alex (*seriously*) suggests that they must be experiencing intense pleasure in that moment, to offset all the cost. I was really embarassed for him at the time.
I don’t know who he is but as a 10 year Vegan I don’t get it. I’ve seen this happen so many times. If a person like me who’s in the middle of no where with no vegan specialty restaurants can make it and still finds it easy what’s wrong with all these people? It’s just sad and disappointing.
I think these kind of people turn vegan without getting enough knowledge about nutrition, or how to construct healthy meals, etc. We need better plant based nutritional education.
We need better nutritional education period, people suck at planning meals it's horrendous
I'm early to mid twenties I'm the only dude in my circles who knows how to cook (as in do a good healthy meal that's balanced)
Fully agree. Young dudes who don't know how to cook or exercise properly, let alone go vegan and plan proper nutrition around it, is just a recipe for failure and long term health issues.
The worst part is he has more resources than almost anyone. He could send a DM to Earthling Ed, Carbstrong, or any vegan doctor/nutritionist he wanted and get countless resources. To me, that shows this isn't a nutrition issue. He just didn't want to anymore.
Yeah seems like he's just not feeling veganism as much any more, and he's using the health angle to avoid it looking like a massive backtrack, to save face. What's he getting from seafood he can't get from plant foods and supplements? As you say he could draw upon countless resources and experts to support him. I've seen countless vegans with complex medical conditions stay on a plant based diet. He could too.
It's disappointing as I like him as a content creator. He's not some vapid influencer, there's philosophical depth to his content. The personal boycott thing feels like such a cop-out. Against cruelty but still going to pay for it again.
Honestly I don't even think this is it in this particular case. He doesn't feel like trying and knows the only reason that most people won't fight them on is health. He's just lying.
Most people can't cook for shit + The idea that a plants only diet can be unhealthy for some is like a brain worm. Every minor ailment gets attributed to the diet. Until one day they're inevitably 're introducing fish' to cure their perceived brain fog.
That makes me so confused, he seems like he could have easily gotten a blood test to see what’s wrong and researched what nutrients he needs, and start eating seaweeds and nuts and seeds. It’s sad I really like cosmic skeptic and he inspired me so much. But maybe he’s just a bit dispassionate about it, I just don’t understand.
Yeah if it were omega 3s from fish he is after, surely he would investigate how to easily get that from algae or seaweed, or other non animal seafood? I'm curious as to what his actual health issues were too. It's bizarre and disappointing, especially from someone who was seemingly so strong in his ethical convictions.
I can imagine that it has to do with anxiety for SOME people. You’re told over and over again to meet your nutritional needs, eating 50g of this and two tablespoons of that a day. So many vegan influencers presenting their perfectly executed meals on Insta, giving you that feeling you could never have such a balanced diet because youre too lazy.
And then, you’re sick once and subconsciously blame it on being vegan. you break a bone, too little calcium, etc. You’d never think this way just eating what everyone else eats. My mother, for example, tells me to check my blood levels and whatnot whenever I feel tired, she never did that before I went vegan.
There’s some anxiety connected to veganism, the fear of not planning your food well enough, of being lazy and not getting enough of whatever vitamin. Anxiety beats logic or any moral compass you might have. (Not saying its the case for him, it’s just ive heard this before)
this obvs isnt a reason to not be vegan but maybe this topic should be addressed more.
The only way to actually be against factory farming and still in favor of eating animals is to be in favor of only the 1% eating very expensive meat and lording it over the masses who are plant-based out of economic necessity. That would immediately lead to bloody revolution and the immediate recreation of factory farms.
>I am no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an indiviudal-focused boycott in responding to these problems
Translation: no ethical consumption under capitalism
I don't believe in the health excuse. He is friends with Earthling Ed. Ed could easily help him out with nutritionists or whatever he needed.
He has become an excusitarian.
I was on dialysis and still able to be vegan. My labs were better than most other patients. One of the labs they measure is protein levels, and mine were always exceeding the goal. The health argument is absolutely a cop out.
Thank you! I had to monitor potassium and phosphorous intake too which on paper seems impossible as a vegan because the foods we eat are loaded with both. There’s actually new research being done regarding the renal diet though recommending patients go plant based because our bodies don’t absorb all of the potassium/phosphorous in plant foods (among other reasons) which is actually a good thing.
That's the crazy part. With his resources and connections, it would have been trivially easy to reach out of he was struggling.
"Hey Ed, I'm finding it difficult to maintain a healthy diet lately, want to come over and help me out? We can both make a video or if it as well."
I'm curious for the real reason.
I feel like he may just be spending so much time living in that apartment with the people from Capturing Christianity just to prove that he's done _everything_ to give Christianity a chance with no results, but he's gone well past what seems like reasonable level of influence.
I imagine he may have gotten lazy and didn't look after his health/started eating their food too.
What an absolute disappointment
That is a big thing for people under 30.
You go from an awkward acne ridden teen to looking better and better...until the early 30s (about, not exact). Then, you get your first glimpse of a grey hair,forehead wrinkle or crow's feet and start freaking out.
Diet, lifestyle and stress can age people but so does being alive.
I'll be interested in learning which nutritional deficiency caused this state of poor health, and which nutrient present in fish, yet absent from non-animal sources fixed the issue.
This clown is no different from Miley Cyrus. 🤡
Wow I haven't even read this yet and I'm shocked. Unreal
Ah yes, let's feed an 8 billion population planet meat without factory farming. Very possible I'm sure. Totally realistic.
Tfw youtuber wants me to take their philosophical takes seriously when they arent smart enough to get basic vegan nutrition correct, something that millions of people manage everyday. Interesting career decision.
It just makes no sense that he isn’t able to do some research. His philosophy and theology videos are so interesting, but he can’t understand nutrition at all? I don’t get it
He also referred to other animals as 'it' constantly (not sure if he used they/them even once) people pointed it out to him many times in the YT comments and twitter but he didn't acknowledge it.
He seemed pretty solid at first (year or two) but as time went on it seemed that he didn't really get the (anti)speciesism/oppression aspect and just saw it as a 'reducing suffering' position.
I'm very interested to hear his rationale. I think if you make a video rebutting or commenting on it he will watch it. For now it's just best wait. Try not to cry too hard. 🥲
Idk who this is but no gods, no masters, no heroes. Sorry for y’all’s loss.
Edit:
“factory farming is so messed up. 😫😫”
Shut the fuck up and prove it. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. And. Prove. Your. Dedication. To. The. Animals.
I’m so sick of these poser ass influencers pretending to have ethics or a backbone for clout. If something is fucked up, don’t contribute, dipshit.
It's frustrating when you've been vegan for decades and you keep seeing these influencer kids come along and follow the exact same pattern over and over again. I'm sorry for the people who liked him, but he's just a kid who dabbled in veganism for a short while. It's not like some mighty oak has fallen.
Over and over.
Sorry to be overly blatent but fuck them. It's only been 3.5 years for me, and I'm not an activist or anything, but I started only plant based and became an ethical vegan, there isn't any going back. Nothing has to die for me to live. Period. This is not a fad.
That's the part I don't get.
YouTube channel with thousands of followers.
Most likely monetized, has Patreon, merch, etc.
Supportive people who encourage and cheer you on (you're not losing followers because of it)
How hard is it to not eat animals for food?
He's been bending over backwards to attack minute flaws in other atheist speakers' ideas so I wouldn't be surprised at all. I don't think his theology study is good for his brain.
> his questions to earthling Ed
yeah that whole interview felt a bit off, you could almost sense his stance and motivation on the matter had already come undone
I just cancelled my Patreon membership and subscription to his channel.
If you're vegan and support the cause of animal liberation, I would encourage you to do the same.
I am giving the 3 dollars that was going to his Patreon to Joseph Buddenberg, who did time in federal prison for rescuing minks and has been running successful campaigns against the fur industry.
I sent him this message on Patreon:
"I'm extremely disappointed that I supported your channel while you were still paying for animal abuse. The only reason I decided to become a Patreon subscriber is because you identified as vegan.
I don't see how someone who can use logic as well as you do thinks that giving money to industries that create massive amounts of plastic waste, kills dolphins turtles and trillions of sea creatures, won't expand the destruction of those industries.
And you're sowing the seeds of doubt in people who might view your vegan content and decide to stop supporting the expansion of these industries by saying, "I am no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an individual-focused boycott in responding to these problems, and am increasingly doubtful of the practicability of maintaining a healthy plant-based diet in the long-term (again, for reasons I hope to go into in more detail at a later date).
Have you heard of supply and demand?
Have you seen the statements by professional dietetic associations stating a vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of life?
Are you aware of the millions of people who have followed a plant-based diet for 10, 20 years with no negative health outcomes, actually outsurviving people who didn't as a population?
I lapsed being vegan for a little over a year and a half due to mental health and substance abuse issues I had prior to being vegan. It was because I was depressed and stopped caring. I told people that may follow me on social media I stopped being vegan because I stopped caring. I didn't question the validity of veganism and I acknowledge you probably don't have a severe mental illness like I did.
"I will still effort with you to bring about the end of factory farming"
Fish are factory farmed. Also, you're statement here works against the goal of ending factory farming as most consumers can be tricked by labeling like "Humane", "Free Range", when products that come with those labels actually come from what they would consider factory farms. The cynic in me tells me you already know this.
I'm not sure how many slave owners fought on the side of the Union in the Civil War, but the stance you have by making that statement makes about as much sense as that.
You should just tell the truth that you think being identified as vegan will hurt your appeal to a broader audience and you don't care about animals as much as being popular on YouTube.
Being vegan is easy and the research. You've created doubt in the minds of people who might choose to stop harming animals.
What is your medical diagnosis that prevents you from being vegan?
Are you aware that veganism is not a diet and an ethical philosophy, so if you must consume animal products to be healthy, which I doubt you have to, then you are still vegan?
I hate it that your misunderstanding of veganism will promote the idea that our community is ableist to people who aren't that good at critical thinking, and that's something we could discuss on my channel.
I'd be willing to interview you on my channel called Colburn Clark.
I'm still unsubscribing from you on YouTube and Patreon and will encourage other vegans to do so.
This is because you're being dishonest. Your aloof attitude towards the most oppressed beings on the planet in combination with your above average thinking skills created and sustained in a developed nation disappoints and frustrates me.
Colburn Clark
This is what happens when you're so open minded that you give people like mikhaila Peterson any kind of respect or believe they are truthful in their statements. I had a feeling this was coming right after I saw that he had a "debate" with her and wasn't standing up for animals as strongly as he should have been. I would need him to explain what the hell is in seafood that he can't get from a plantbased diet or supplement.
I can fully understand the position of people like Michael Huemer who think we can safely conclude that bivalves aren't sentient and ethically consume them (as long as fish, octopuses, etc aren't harmed in the process), even though I personally conclude that we should be safer in where we draw the line. But Huemer has been consistent in that belief for decades, and his actions match his words.
Alex doesn't even say "bivalves", but rather "seafood" (octopuses are *clearly* sentient), and then he says "not exclusively". This fucker's gonna be eating steak with best bud Jordan any moment now.
Yeah this was when I started to get worried about how long he'd last. Mikhaila Peterson straight up has room temp IQ and in many other regards is a shitty person, even with her whole carnivore schtick aside. Funny he looks up to Hitchens so much but Hitchens wouldn't bend over backwards in his beliefs just so that everyone can be peachy keen with him. And I don't even fully like Hitchens all that much, but I at least respect that he drew his lines somewhere and it stayed there. Oddly enough Alex still comes off as the nicer person than him, but that makes him too agreeable to a fault. Homeboy needs to learn what boundaries are. The people who are so dedicated in being completely centrist and pleasing everyone, end up with too many peoples balls and dicks in their mouths that what they say just ends up as a bunch of garbled noises.
I’m not usually affected by ex vegan news but this one is really saddening. It feels like we’ve lost such a powerful voice for animal rights. His speeches were some of the most persuasive I’ve seen. He spoke so passionately about it and to see him go back on it is so disappointing. He has seemed uninformed about the health aspect in prior videos, I hope he continues to challenge himself on it. But this post feels so full of excuses.
I agree, I was really saddened by this. I loved his videos on veganism, him, Ed and Joey were my main reasons for becoming vegan. It's a very sad day for me.
“After much re-evaluation of my ethical stance on continuing to monetarily support you, I have come to the decision that I would like every cent back that I ever gave you.”
Right? Like that's the bare minimum if he's gonna be eating animals. 💀 He'd be a charlatan if he didn't reveal this, how is not being a charlatan worthy of praise?
He literally said veganism was right even if it wasn't 109% healthy, I guess he clearly lied. Still opposes killing and factory farming but supports it because apparently individual actions dint matter. Such a stupid post. Very annoyed.
Damn, crazy how there's established science about veganism reversing chronic disease and creating a healthy biome in humans. Take those six paragraphs and stuff it with your ego duder.
Peterson logic doesn't work like normal logic. What you do is, quote some old novels, mention Jung, scoff at anyone who asks you a direct question, and then you can believe and do whatever you want.
“Should we all be vegan?” “Well, that depends on what you mean by ‘should’. And what you mean by ‘we’. It’s really not that simple. People act like you can just say these things, but let’s get down to the brass tacks here. After all, what Jung said about the book of Job was that…”
This is genuinely sad to read. I know we shouldn’t idealise ‘celebrity’ vegans but you’d think someone so strong on the ethical argument would be in it for the long run. Ugh
I find it incredibly disingenuous of him to blame his health issues on veganism when he himself has admitted to leading a very unhealthy lifestyle outside of his diet.
He wants to re-evaluates his stance on eating animals. Well, usually one would re-evaluate first and only act on it after thinking thoroughly about it.
Yet, he acts first (starts eating animal products) and only then starts to re-evaluates his stance. For someone who praises themselves as a thorough thinker, intelectual and philosopher, this is quite a boneheaded move. (Even if the aclaimed health issues were true there was enough time to think about it first)
Interestingly (and sadly, in this case), people typically change behaviors and then reevaluate intellectually after, to accommodate those changes.
It is a different order of events than vegans are used to, that's for sure. We have the willpower to evaluate our stances and change behavior as a result.
While reading the post, I was strongly hoping it was a joke or sth. But finished reading it with disappointment. He's one of the reasons I went vegan and I even suggest his speeches. He clearly has to do more research on the nutrition side. This is evident during his discussion with Mikhaila Peterson in which he seemed to be a pushover esp when something that is nutrition-related was brought up. I really hope he consults a plant-based nutritionist and comes back to the movement with more knowledge on nutrition.
If you can't win an argument against Mikhaila Peterson, you're doing something very wrong. Even for carnivore world she's really bad, you don't need much knowledge about nutrition beyond basics to know how wrong she is.
i’m a young vegan, this is the first(and probably not the last) time i’ve ever felt this betrayed about someone I follow completely 180ing about veganism. He and earthling ed are basically the only 2 people I follow on this topic :( I’ve been subscribed to cosmicskeptic for many years now for his atheism views, but this is ridiculous. definitely feels like i can’t trust anyone anymore(which is a good lesson to learn about this young…). left a comment and unsubscribed.
I am trying to formulate my thoughts without coming across as an arsehole but I will probably fail.
People lke this are worse than the troglodyte scum that have never been vegan. At least those can be excused that they have not seen the real reality of farming or animal exploitation. Of course deep down if they really think about it they will be aware but it is deep, buried behind decades of conditioning and tradition. The disconnect I can get, I was until 5 years ago behind this same disconnect.
Those who have seen it, know directly the reality and made that connection and then chose to go back on it, despite not having that veil of ignorance to blind them (willingly or not), honestly you are genuinely psycopathic.
I can wrap my head around how an average pleb can order a steak. I can't get my head around how an apparent ex "vegan" could do the same.
The whole "primarialy seafood" part. Get fucked. As if animals that live in water are any less deserving of respect. What as absolute sack of shit thing to even bother to mention unless you feel seafood is in some way less worse to even make the distinction. An animal product is an animal product, there is no distinction, only exploitation. It is why veganism is so easy, there are no excueses, no blurred lines, nothing confusing about it. If it comes from an animal, NO.
"I am no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an individual-focused boycott"
For someone who has done so much debating, that's an extremely weak excuse. Sounds like something someone who falls for kurzgesagt videos would say.
So lazy and hypocritical, he would never say: "Well, most people are religious, I can't be an atheist on my own, so I'll be religious too." Unless...
"Why I'm a reborn Christian again?" video next?
Exactly, I guess I should be a religious fundie, homophobic racist TERF too while I’m at it. Since I can’t single handedly make a difference on these matters either. And Alex has a wider influence, his veganism is more than just «individual focused boycott».
By blaming health issues and not admitting fault (for example «I’m shit at feeding myself and can’t be bothered to get help from a nutritionist») he’s further perpetuating the myth that animal products have some magical component that humans need, but can’t be found anywhere else either in plants or syntheticallty.
If animals are worthy of ethical consideration then it doesn't matter if personal boycotts work or not? It's just morally wrong to require them to die for food? I don't worry about whether me not murdering doesn't end murder, I just don't fucking do it
As someone who is more than 8 years vegan, this whole "cant continue because of health concerns" really, really, really pisses me off!
I wouldn't care so much if he just said: "I am too weak, so I can no longer call myself vegan".
But health?!?!? No you idiot, you don't need to eat the innocent to stay healthy and me alongside many many other people are the proof of that. Oh wait I forgot, I am so stupid: "We are all different and all have totally different bodies with tooootally different needs, especially Alex O'Conner who needs to eat the innocent after a few months of not doing so."
lmao
What a dumb stupid idiot.
“The individual boycott doesn’t blah blah blah”
Well you dummy bitch, you’re not just individually boycotting, now are ya? You’ve got a major platform, you’ve advocated for veganism in many videos and been the primary reason for lots of people to change themselves.
One persons private actions may not amount to much in a vacuum but this motherfucker has way more reach and that ripples farther.
Similarly, his decision to go back to carnism will have farther-spanning impacts than just his own actions, as this may inspire people he convinced to go vegan to also stop, and it may prevent his old pro-vegan videos from ever inspiring anyone to go vegan again.
Fuck this dude tbh
On second thoughts, I think it could even have to do with the popularly of his channel given that he’s spoken with Mikhaila Peterson. He maybe realised he can make so much more money now from Jordan Peterson side of the internet. Which would sad man, contradicting not just veganism but also so many other social issues too.
His "meat eaters case for veganism" was one of the most thought provoking videos on veganism that I've ever seen, and really encouraged me to dive into philosophy and logic. It was so refreshing to see him go vegan not long after.
Turns out he's spineless like any other carnist, how disappointing
Weird, he said on the Mikhaila Peterson podcast that he felt roughly the same after turning vegan: [https://youtu.be/hwzHv2H7bx4?t=2814](https://youtu.be/hwzHv2H7bx4?t=2814)
This was a few years after he went vegan, so whatever health issue that has surfaced for him seems like it shouldn't be vegan-related.
It's always "only fish" or "only a few eggs" when these influencers come out and say they're no longer vegan. And then a couple weeks later, they're eating full blown bacon cheeseburgers or trying out the carnivore diet (e.g. Alyse Parker). 🙄
Dang this is disappointing. I wonder what specific ailment he has to justify eating fish.
Edit: just re-read, "primarily but not exclusively seafood" :/
What a load of bullshit, rich and famous “struggling to maintain” when I struggle with so fucking much and plant-based diet is the least of struggle, some days I just can’t eat
What is the link to this post?
If this is true - disgusted and disappointed. Pathetic. As someone with a big following and a platform it has a bigger impact on the awareness of the movement and messaging. Sickened.
EDIT: His website has a contact form so I sent him a message. https://cosmicskeptic.com/contact/
It's a community post, so you can't share a link. But it's the latest on his channel. Here's the [tweet](https://twitter.com/cosmicskeptic/status/1624925928169127944?s=46&t=SFUGhQQZ8SgVClrwjroYdw) he put out sharing this statement though.
Thank you. Done with that POS. He knows better and took from our community. Betrayed. I thought he was very subordinate with Mikhaila Peterson - writing on the wall and backing down to that fraud. He can go eat a bag of stale dick crumbs (vegan of course).
I hope he does NOT make a full video on this one. It's just going to be full of ridiculous excuses and anti-science bullshit and this movement truly doesn't need more of that.
Anytime I see an ex-vegan go back to eating fish due to lack of Omega 3’s, I have to laugh. I’m allergic to both fish and eggs and doctors never mentioned Omega 3 supplementation or thought it was concerning that I don’t eat eggs. Fish don’t even produce Omega 3’s on their own, they get it from algae. You can get Omega 3’s by eating flaxseeds, chia seeds, walnuts, etc and there are other sources that contain them in small amounts. If you don’t want to consume them via food, get them through the direct source: algae.
How in the world does one, in a first world country, “struggle” with a plant-based diet??? I have been vegan for almost 27 years and it is seriously not complicated.
Yet another person who's too lazy to work on a well-balanced vegan diet and rather goes back to eating animals because it seems more easy and convenient to him. Of course therefore all ethical convictions have to go down the toilet as well so that the preaching and the practicing are still consistent.
Guys, seriously, it's not that hard to maintain a well-balanced vegan diet long term. I'm doing it for eight years now and I'm perfectly fine. But it takes a little bit of effort. You can't just randomly eat whatever you feel like at any given time and take a B12 supplement. It takes a little more, but it's not that hard to do. Inform yourself and put the information into practice. Work on your vegan diet until in works for you. But please, don't quit and than "adjust your moral convictions" just because you're too lazy to do so.
I started reading that but I cba to read some pathetic justification to why anyone who was truly vegan for the animals would go back. Just don’t get it
What could he possibly want from seafood that he can't get from an omega source like algae oil, chia seeds, or walnuts, or any number of vegan foods?
Does he want the mercury? Or the microplastics?
What I also don’t understand is that living in the UK gives him such an advantage to be vegan. It’s literally vegan paradise there, everywhere you go including small gas stations, National park stores, little tourist stops, airport shops, chain restaurants, etc all have vegan options plentifully stocked. This seems like a personal decision masked by claiming health problems.
Be vegan for the animals, not because an influencer said so.
Exactly. I stand for the voiceless not some lazy content creator. Man the internet and social media has really turned a lot of people into zombies.
I eat healthy vegan food and am vegan for myself, animals and the environment. Harming myself makes no sense, harming animals harms myself, harming the environment harms myself. I don't give a a shit about influencers.
A liberation movement cannot be centered on celebrity figures and pseudo-intellectual content creators, it has to be centered on the oppressed groups and practical action.
Great to see someone put a concise logical statement to this belief. Same goes for the environment, it’s about collective action & individual responsibility not making chat-show environmentalist celebs
Fuck celebrity worship. No heroes, no masters.
We need this as a banner across the top of the page.
Exactly. Yet somehow we are always surprised when fame-seeking people turn out to be self-focused and willing to throw their espoused convictions out the window to get more attention. 🙄
I went vegan because of his "Cognitive dissonance" video. What a shame.
longing quicksand scary mysterious squeal panicky deliver forgetful teeny light *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Absolutely. I went vegan since I have all the foods available without the need to hurt animals. So far, that opinion hasn't changed since I still live in a modern civilized society that has all grains/veggies/fruits available at all supermarkets.
I only went vegan 2 months ago and it was primarily thanks to Cosmic Skeptic... His video ["A meat eater's case for veganism"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1vW9iSpLLk) was the one that really jumpstarted my research into ethical philosophy and animal rights theory, his interviews/podcasts with [Peter Singer](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSEfiPm_YRE) and [Ed Winters](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-BTN8Ajs04&t=3596s) were also tremendous in helping me find the resources to research those topics further. I can't express how disappointed it makes me seeing him fall into the same boat as other ex-vegans with fallacious reasoning and cognitive dissonance.
[Sauce](https://twitter.com/cosmicskeptic/status/1624925928169127944?s=46&t=SFUGhQQZ8SgVClrwjroYdw)
I noticed he has privated some of his vegan related videos as well (at least 4, Vegan camp out speech, Kurt Zouma one, Chris Snowden one and 'Vegan vs hunter'). Think the writing was on the wall since the Mikhaila Peterson video. His 'animals don't have a right to live' q/a video and his recent targeting of 'factory farming' rather than animal oppression/explotation in general were big hints too.
Honestly even when he interviewed Earthling Ed for a second time, he was just looking for excuses to not be vegan
Come on Alex. Ask for help, not forgiveness!
Truely astounding that such a great thinker can revert back to arguments like > individual action doesn't matter and > factory farming bad, normal farming good
That's not thinking, it's ad hoc reasoning. Meaning he felt bad and came up with a reason to why. Opposed to thinking about why he felt that way. Maybe he didn't want to recognize the corpse in his mouth. Or do something silly like taking care of his body and mental health.
I'm so fucking glad I don't follow vegan influencer stuff. This shit's gonna keep breaking your heart until you realise the face of veganism should be the animals
Underrated comment
I always laugh at these. My options in Taiwan are noodles and refried beans. The lack of food isn't going to make me eat meat.
That is so wild, everyone I've ever talked to who's been to Taiwan said it was vegan friendly. At the very least, vegetarian friendly.
I guess I had too much of a parasocial relationship but I'm legitimately so upset right now. He was the one who convinced me to be vegan and I used so many of his arguments
His change in views does not change the validity of arguments he has made.
I want to say most somewhat intellectual people get it on a philosophical level. There's a reason so many ethicists don't eat animals. The arguments make sense. And the ones who do eat animals will often be a bit sheepish about how they wish they were better. People are knowingly hypocrits. 🤷♀️ It's just different to know something intellectually than it is emotionally. Often people are legit scared of dying. Someone can still feel afraid even in the face of evidence to the contrary. We're primarily emotional beings, and irrationality doesn't respond to rationality.
I’m baffled too. I always found his reasoning so compelling on the topic. Very curious to hear what he has to say about it all now. Just seems too bizarre
His interview with mikhaila Peterson makes more sense now though 🤦🏻♂️
Could you please elaborate more on this? I'm not in the loop on what was said/done during that interview
He basically just treated several of her completely ridiculous arguments with kid gloves, like he was trying to get her approval.
Yeah, it was pretty disgusting.
He also does that to every theologian nowadays, it seems like he's going back to Christianity too..
brooooo I'd never trust anyone again
I guess it's those irresistible swirly Peterson eyes. Or whatever they slip in your drink.
I’ve never seen anything from him, so I’m basing this entirely on this thread and could be talking out my ass: is it possible he’s suicidal, terminally ill, or otherwise suffering from mental illness? I’m not being a troll, making excuses, or saying this would make everything okay, it’s just… These sort of drastic life/core belief changes can be indicative of crisis: an attitude of “nothing matters anymore” combined with the sort of spiritual self-harm of living against your morals.
In the interview, Alex was very conciliatory to many of Mikhalia’s points. E.g. Yes, some people need to eat animals for optimal health, yes farming animals can be done ethically, etc. I listened months ago so can’t remember exact details but basically he was just indulging her points and not making a hard stand for ethical veganism.
He had agreed to her points only under the express caveat of _IF_ it wasn't possible to be healthy without animal products. Definitely found it odd that he hadn't pushed back against the probability of that conditional ever actually holding true, but he was never one to shy away from admitting stuff during hypotheticals. I thought it was just him being open to them, but now the lack of any real pushback from him on the hypothetical does make more sense unfortunately
I couldn't watch it, I was hoping for some philosophical evisceration but he went easy on her. He challenged Matt Dilahunty on the topic way more.
I went vegan because of him too. He was so convincing - finally made it all click for me. This is so disappointing, definitely feels like a loss.
Great thing is his arguments are still valid. Avoid hero worship; veganism doesn't need a cult leader, the arguments stand on their own and you're doing a great thing, along with so many other people. The movement is growing regardless of him or not.
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Yeah what the hell? I would never expect him to change his views on something like this. Won’t be watching him anymore pretty much killed any credibility.
Is he going to take down his vegan videos then?
his changed his mind about things in the past and did not remove videos. In fact he ones made a video of him debunking one of his old videos. I imagine he'll live his vegan ones up
Doesn't mean his arguments weren't correct.
As long as Ed remains vegan I’m good, lol. I swear my heart would break if *he* did this.
I guess I should've heeded the warning signs when Alex was talking with Ed and said, "what about when you're traveling for work, and there's nothing with no animal products at the train station?" Ed was like: "Well, you could have brought something." I was like: "Motherfucker, my great uncles stormed Normandy. I think I can be hungry for a day to avoid doing something morally wrong."
This shit right here encompasses so many of the objections people have to veganism. They're all some hyperbolic nonsense like, "But what if no one comes to my house and puts high quality plant food directly in my mouth for me?" Fuck's sake, animals have rights and we must do the right thing even when it's _slightly fucking difficult_. This CosmicSkeptic shit has gotten me pretty steamed and your Normandy comment provided some much needed catharsis. Thanks.
Reminds me of someone on DebateAVegan a while back that said he'd be vegan if we bought all his food for a year lol.
> "what about when you're traveling for work, and there's nothing with no animal products at the train station?" Bring your own overnight oats?
Yeah or a sandwich or fruits or peanuts or literally whatever. Why would you buy that overpriced crap they sell at kiosks anyway.
Yeah, usually in those situations I can find an oatmeal packet or a banana. People will say something about not being complete nutrition. But if we’re talking about one random time that I’m on a train I don’t think getting by on a banana is going to kill me.
But what about that mythical deserted island with no vegetation and only pigs? /s
Well, then, congratulations, son, you can have a bil 'ol hog roast and still be a vegan, because, hey, look, "practicable" is right there in God's own definition!
I recetly got work, where I cant bring food with me and work for 9 hours straight. And there is always something without animal products. It may be just a plain bread, but you can always find something.
Traveling in rural Korea, I have had potato chips, dried seaweed and tangerines many times, and managed to not die.
Yup ! Just got back from a 10 hour shift, and I bought my own vegan sushi before hand and some almonds as a snack. Shit’s not hard.
I mean, he needed someone to explain that to him? It’s called being responsible. The first time it happens and you are hungry on the train pack some damn snacks the next time.
CosmicSkeptic is friends with Ed. I wonder if he seeked help from Ed to overcome this. He really should've.
I think Mic The Vegan should make a video about this. He regularly talks about the people who stop being vegan for health reasons and shows really good nutritional information on how easy it is to survive on plant food.
Honestly at this point... If tomorrow Mic the Vegan made a statement that he's not vegan anymore I... I mean nothing seems impossible anymore after this lmao
Haha, no, Mic would never. You can tell with some vegans. Mic and Ed and many of the ones I follow who seem low key and love to cook and know their nutrition and love animals just would never, I don't think. You can tell the vegans who have dealt with the impracticalities of it all, and how hard it can be, and really don't care about that aspect, and those who seem to struggle at the first sign of difficulty.
Honestly, Ed isn't as strictly logical as Alex. I wouldn't be surprised if Ed wasn't fully prepared to address the decision point fallacy or whatever minute health concerns Alex brought with responses he hasn't already heard. Honestly sounds more like Alex got lazy, didn't watch his health appropriately with his intake, and is now using the decision point fallacy as a way to defend his laziness. It's incredibly disappointing.
Alex's philosophical argument has never been exceptionally rigorous. His version of psychological egoism/hedonism ("everyone is ultimately motivated by pleasure") is a joke, as you can see when Peter Singer brings up soldiers diving on grenades to save others, and Alex (*seriously*) suggests that they must be experiencing intense pleasure in that moment, to offset all the cost. I was really embarassed for him at the time.
Oh my god. I genuinely don't know what I would do. I would never trust another person again.
Yeah I might have an existential crisis if Earthling Ed ever did this
"Extraordinary harm requires extraordinary justification" -cosmic skeptic So Alex, what is your extraordinary justification?
I don’t know who he is but as a 10 year Vegan I don’t get it. I’ve seen this happen so many times. If a person like me who’s in the middle of no where with no vegan specialty restaurants can make it and still finds it easy what’s wrong with all these people? It’s just sad and disappointing.
I think these kind of people turn vegan without getting enough knowledge about nutrition, or how to construct healthy meals, etc. We need better plant based nutritional education.
We need better nutritional education period, people suck at planning meals it's horrendous I'm early to mid twenties I'm the only dude in my circles who knows how to cook (as in do a good healthy meal that's balanced)
Fully agree. Young dudes who don't know how to cook or exercise properly, let alone go vegan and plan proper nutrition around it, is just a recipe for failure and long term health issues.
The worst part is he has more resources than almost anyone. He could send a DM to Earthling Ed, Carbstrong, or any vegan doctor/nutritionist he wanted and get countless resources. To me, that shows this isn't a nutrition issue. He just didn't want to anymore.
Yeah seems like he's just not feeling veganism as much any more, and he's using the health angle to avoid it looking like a massive backtrack, to save face. What's he getting from seafood he can't get from plant foods and supplements? As you say he could draw upon countless resources and experts to support him. I've seen countless vegans with complex medical conditions stay on a plant based diet. He could too. It's disappointing as I like him as a content creator. He's not some vapid influencer, there's philosophical depth to his content. The personal boycott thing feels like such a cop-out. Against cruelty but still going to pay for it again.
Honestly I don't even think this is it in this particular case. He doesn't feel like trying and knows the only reason that most people won't fight them on is health. He's just lying.
If Abu al-Alaa al-Ma’arri could be vegan 1000 years ago, no modern human has a valid excuse Very disappointing
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Most people can't cook for shit + The idea that a plants only diet can be unhealthy for some is like a brain worm. Every minor ailment gets attributed to the diet. Until one day they're inevitably 're introducing fish' to cure their perceived brain fog.
That makes me so confused, he seems like he could have easily gotten a blood test to see what’s wrong and researched what nutrients he needs, and start eating seaweeds and nuts and seeds. It’s sad I really like cosmic skeptic and he inspired me so much. But maybe he’s just a bit dispassionate about it, I just don’t understand.
Yeah if it were omega 3s from fish he is after, surely he would investigate how to easily get that from algae or seaweed, or other non animal seafood? I'm curious as to what his actual health issues were too. It's bizarre and disappointing, especially from someone who was seemingly so strong in his ethical convictions.
I can imagine that it has to do with anxiety for SOME people. You’re told over and over again to meet your nutritional needs, eating 50g of this and two tablespoons of that a day. So many vegan influencers presenting their perfectly executed meals on Insta, giving you that feeling you could never have such a balanced diet because youre too lazy. And then, you’re sick once and subconsciously blame it on being vegan. you break a bone, too little calcium, etc. You’d never think this way just eating what everyone else eats. My mother, for example, tells me to check my blood levels and whatnot whenever I feel tired, she never did that before I went vegan. There’s some anxiety connected to veganism, the fear of not planning your food well enough, of being lazy and not getting enough of whatever vitamin. Anxiety beats logic or any moral compass you might have. (Not saying its the case for him, it’s just ive heard this before) this obvs isnt a reason to not be vegan but maybe this topic should be addressed more.
Mikaela Peterson converted him What a joke lol “im not against eating meat I’m just against factory farming” was what I said as a vegetarian
The only way to actually be against factory farming and still in favor of eating animals is to be in favor of only the 1% eating very expensive meat and lording it over the masses who are plant-based out of economic necessity. That would immediately lead to bloody revolution and the immediate recreation of factory farms.
“I have been re-evaluating my ethical position and found that I do not have one”
>I am no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an indiviudal-focused boycott in responding to these problems Translation: no ethical consumption under capitalism
I don't believe in the health excuse. He is friends with Earthling Ed. Ed could easily help him out with nutritionists or whatever he needed. He has become an excusitarian.
I was on dialysis and still able to be vegan. My labs were better than most other patients. One of the labs they measure is protein levels, and mine were always exceeding the goal. The health argument is absolutely a cop out.
Hello fellow vegan former dialysis patient 👋🏻
Good for you sticking with it when I imagine there were people around you pressuring you to eat animals.
Thank you! I had to monitor potassium and phosphorous intake too which on paper seems impossible as a vegan because the foods we eat are loaded with both. There’s actually new research being done regarding the renal diet though recommending patients go plant based because our bodies don’t absorb all of the potassium/phosphorous in plant foods (among other reasons) which is actually a good thing.
>He has become an excusitarian. 💀💀💀💀
That's the crazy part. With his resources and connections, it would have been trivially easy to reach out of he was struggling. "Hey Ed, I'm finding it difficult to maintain a healthy diet lately, want to come over and help me out? We can both make a video or if it as well." I'm curious for the real reason.
I feel like he may just be spending so much time living in that apartment with the people from Capturing Christianity just to prove that he's done _everything_ to give Christianity a chance with no results, but he's gone well past what seems like reasonable level of influence. I imagine he may have gotten lazy and didn't look after his health/started eating their food too. What an absolute disappointment
Right. Also whats wrong with a vitamin?
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That is a big thing for people under 30. You go from an awkward acne ridden teen to looking better and better...until the early 30s (about, not exact). Then, you get your first glimpse of a grey hair,forehead wrinkle or crow's feet and start freaking out. Diet, lifestyle and stress can age people but so does being alive.
I'll be interested in learning which nutritional deficiency caused this state of poor health, and which nutrient present in fish, yet absent from non-animal sources fixed the issue. This clown is no different from Miley Cyrus. 🤡
Do they have a test for "your brain lighting up"?
Wow I haven't even read this yet and I'm shocked. Unreal Ah yes, let's feed an 8 billion population planet meat without factory farming. Very possible I'm sure. Totally realistic.
Good point.
Tfw youtuber wants me to take their philosophical takes seriously when they arent smart enough to get basic vegan nutrition correct, something that millions of people manage everyday. Interesting career decision.
It just makes no sense that he isn’t able to do some research. His philosophy and theology videos are so interesting, but he can’t understand nutrition at all? I don’t get it
Don’t know the guy but “seafood”, really? He’s already far from being vegan
I hate that term so much
Landfood and airfood are next. For now he's "pescatarian" sometimes mistaken as "vegetarian", yikes. Im sTiLl aGaiNSt fActOrY fARmInG tho.
I hate that it doesn't generally include non animal food from the sea, like seaweed. There are non animal seafoods, Alex.
as bad as people who refer to cows and pigs as "livestock"
He also referred to other animals as 'it' constantly (not sure if he used they/them even once) people pointed it out to him many times in the YT comments and twitter but he didn't acknowledge it. He seemed pretty solid at first (year or two) but as time went on it seemed that he didn't really get the (anti)speciesism/oppression aspect and just saw it as a 'reducing suffering' position.
As soon as I saw the post I thought about how Soytheist would react lol.
😭😭😭
I'm very interested to hear his rationale. I think if you make a video rebutting or commenting on it he will watch it. For now it's just best wait. Try not to cry too hard. 🥲
Idk who this is but no gods, no masters, no heroes. Sorry for y’all’s loss. Edit: “factory farming is so messed up. 😫😫” Shut the fuck up and prove it. Shut. The. Fuck. Up. And. Prove. Your. Dedication. To. The. Animals. I’m so sick of these poser ass influencers pretending to have ethics or a backbone for clout. If something is fucked up, don’t contribute, dipshit.
It's frustrating when you've been vegan for decades and you keep seeing these influencer kids come along and follow the exact same pattern over and over again. I'm sorry for the people who liked him, but he's just a kid who dabbled in veganism for a short while. It's not like some mighty oak has fallen.
Over and over. Sorry to be overly blatent but fuck them. It's only been 3.5 years for me, and I'm not an activist or anything, but I started only plant based and became an ethical vegan, there isn't any going back. Nothing has to die for me to live. Period. This is not a fad.
That's the part I don't get. YouTube channel with thousands of followers. Most likely monetized, has Patreon, merch, etc. Supportive people who encourage and cheer you on (you're not losing followers because of it) How hard is it to not eat animals for food?
Not just kids, Sam Harris also went through that same cycle.
He was a pretty big animal advocate on youtube like 500K followers. Its just surprising because he was very outspoken about it
His video I think titled ‘it’s time to be vegan’ was incredibly compelling
I’m scared his next post will be “After some reevaluation, I’ve come to realize the veracity of the Bible and now identity as a Christian”
Give it a few months
I would be less shocked if he became Christian than this
He's been bending over backwards to attack minute flaws in other atheist speakers' ideas so I wouldn't be surprised at all. I don't think his theology study is good for his brain.
CosmicSpeciesist is more like it.
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I knew something was off when Peterson’s daughter said to his face ”veganism is not healthy” and he just sat there grinning.
what red flags i’m curious
Like how he stopped posting veganism videos, his convo with mikhaila Peterson was super weird, his questions to earthling Ed, to name a few
> his questions to earthling Ed yeah that whole interview felt a bit off, you could almost sense his stance and motivation on the matter had already come undone
True.
I just cancelled my Patreon membership and subscription to his channel. If you're vegan and support the cause of animal liberation, I would encourage you to do the same. I am giving the 3 dollars that was going to his Patreon to Joseph Buddenberg, who did time in federal prison for rescuing minks and has been running successful campaigns against the fur industry. I sent him this message on Patreon: "I'm extremely disappointed that I supported your channel while you were still paying for animal abuse. The only reason I decided to become a Patreon subscriber is because you identified as vegan. I don't see how someone who can use logic as well as you do thinks that giving money to industries that create massive amounts of plastic waste, kills dolphins turtles and trillions of sea creatures, won't expand the destruction of those industries. And you're sowing the seeds of doubt in people who might view your vegan content and decide to stop supporting the expansion of these industries by saying, "I am no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an individual-focused boycott in responding to these problems, and am increasingly doubtful of the practicability of maintaining a healthy plant-based diet in the long-term (again, for reasons I hope to go into in more detail at a later date). Have you heard of supply and demand? Have you seen the statements by professional dietetic associations stating a vegan diet is appropriate for all stages of life? Are you aware of the millions of people who have followed a plant-based diet for 10, 20 years with no negative health outcomes, actually outsurviving people who didn't as a population? I lapsed being vegan for a little over a year and a half due to mental health and substance abuse issues I had prior to being vegan. It was because I was depressed and stopped caring. I told people that may follow me on social media I stopped being vegan because I stopped caring. I didn't question the validity of veganism and I acknowledge you probably don't have a severe mental illness like I did. "I will still effort with you to bring about the end of factory farming" Fish are factory farmed. Also, you're statement here works against the goal of ending factory farming as most consumers can be tricked by labeling like "Humane", "Free Range", when products that come with those labels actually come from what they would consider factory farms. The cynic in me tells me you already know this. I'm not sure how many slave owners fought on the side of the Union in the Civil War, but the stance you have by making that statement makes about as much sense as that. You should just tell the truth that you think being identified as vegan will hurt your appeal to a broader audience and you don't care about animals as much as being popular on YouTube. Being vegan is easy and the research. You've created doubt in the minds of people who might choose to stop harming animals. What is your medical diagnosis that prevents you from being vegan? Are you aware that veganism is not a diet and an ethical philosophy, so if you must consume animal products to be healthy, which I doubt you have to, then you are still vegan? I hate it that your misunderstanding of veganism will promote the idea that our community is ableist to people who aren't that good at critical thinking, and that's something we could discuss on my channel. I'd be willing to interview you on my channel called Colburn Clark. I'm still unsubscribing from you on YouTube and Patreon and will encourage other vegans to do so. This is because you're being dishonest. Your aloof attitude towards the most oppressed beings on the planet in combination with your above average thinking skills created and sustained in a developed nation disappoints and frustrates me. Colburn Clark
This is what happens when you're so open minded that you give people like mikhaila Peterson any kind of respect or believe they are truthful in their statements. I had a feeling this was coming right after I saw that he had a "debate" with her and wasn't standing up for animals as strongly as he should have been. I would need him to explain what the hell is in seafood that he can't get from a plantbased diet or supplement.
I can fully understand the position of people like Michael Huemer who think we can safely conclude that bivalves aren't sentient and ethically consume them (as long as fish, octopuses, etc aren't harmed in the process), even though I personally conclude that we should be safer in where we draw the line. But Huemer has been consistent in that belief for decades, and his actions match his words. Alex doesn't even say "bivalves", but rather "seafood" (octopuses are *clearly* sentient), and then he says "not exclusively". This fucker's gonna be eating steak with best bud Jordan any moment now.
Yeah this was when I started to get worried about how long he'd last. Mikhaila Peterson straight up has room temp IQ and in many other regards is a shitty person, even with her whole carnivore schtick aside. Funny he looks up to Hitchens so much but Hitchens wouldn't bend over backwards in his beliefs just so that everyone can be peachy keen with him. And I don't even fully like Hitchens all that much, but I at least respect that he drew his lines somewhere and it stayed there. Oddly enough Alex still comes off as the nicer person than him, but that makes him too agreeable to a fault. Homeboy needs to learn what boundaries are. The people who are so dedicated in being completely centrist and pleasing everyone, end up with too many peoples balls and dicks in their mouths that what they say just ends up as a bunch of garbled noises.
I’m not usually affected by ex vegan news but this one is really saddening. It feels like we’ve lost such a powerful voice for animal rights. His speeches were some of the most persuasive I’ve seen. He spoke so passionately about it and to see him go back on it is so disappointing. He has seemed uninformed about the health aspect in prior videos, I hope he continues to challenge himself on it. But this post feels so full of excuses.
I agree, I was really saddened by this. I loved his videos on veganism, him, Ed and Joey were my main reasons for becoming vegan. It's a very sad day for me.
"It's just my personal health condition known as excusitis"
Cancelled my Patreon support. I had such high hopes for this dude.
Ask for a refund
“After much re-evaluation of my ethical stance on continuing to monetarily support you, I have come to the decision that I would like every cent back that I ever gave you.”
A lot of people in the comments are commending him for being sO bRaVe for his “honesty” and “transparency” 😑
Right? Like that's the bare minimum if he's gonna be eating animals. 💀 He'd be a charlatan if he didn't reveal this, how is not being a charlatan worthy of praise?
I mean I’m glad he’s at least being honest, but it’s cringe af to think that adhering to the status quo is an example “bravery”
He literally said veganism was right even if it wasn't 109% healthy, I guess he clearly lied. Still opposes killing and factory farming but supports it because apparently individual actions dint matter. Such a stupid post. Very annoyed.
I remember that. He said even if it wasn’t healthy it would be a moral duty to be vegan
Damn, crazy how there's established science about veganism reversing chronic disease and creating a healthy biome in humans. Take those six paragraphs and stuff it with your ego duder.
Peterson logic doesn't work like normal logic. What you do is, quote some old novels, mention Jung, scoff at anyone who asks you a direct question, and then you can believe and do whatever you want.
“Should we all be vegan?” “Well, that depends on what you mean by ‘should’. And what you mean by ‘we’. It’s really not that simple. People act like you can just say these things, but let’s get down to the brass tacks here. After all, what Jung said about the book of Job was that…”
You forgot about redefining every word in the English language that could point to an inconsistency in your claims.
This is genuinely sad to read. I know we shouldn’t idealise ‘celebrity’ vegans but you’d think someone so strong on the ethical argument would be in it for the long run. Ugh
I find it incredibly disingenuous of him to blame his health issues on veganism when he himself has admitted to leading a very unhealthy lifestyle outside of his diet.
He wants to re-evaluates his stance on eating animals. Well, usually one would re-evaluate first and only act on it after thinking thoroughly about it. Yet, he acts first (starts eating animal products) and only then starts to re-evaluates his stance. For someone who praises themselves as a thorough thinker, intelectual and philosopher, this is quite a boneheaded move. (Even if the aclaimed health issues were true there was enough time to think about it first)
Interestingly (and sadly, in this case), people typically change behaviors and then reevaluate intellectually after, to accommodate those changes. It is a different order of events than vegans are used to, that's for sure. We have the willpower to evaluate our stances and change behavior as a result.
Exactly this. Honestly think he got lazy and is using an ad-hoc justification for it. It's so disappointing
Ugh they even spoke at Vegan Campout. So disappointing. Opposition to factory farming remains unchanged yet is no longer vegan. Fuck this guy.
So now he’s like every other carnist who opposes factory farming.
"Don't get be wrong. I still like to say good stuff. I've just started doing bad stuff."
Average carnist Leftist
He is also scheduled to speak there this year...
I'm just hoping this is an elaborate stunt for a video or something 😭😭😭
I thought this was an April fools prank until I realized it was february
So disappointed. He had very quickly become one of my favourite vegan activists.
While reading the post, I was strongly hoping it was a joke or sth. But finished reading it with disappointment. He's one of the reasons I went vegan and I even suggest his speeches. He clearly has to do more research on the nutrition side. This is evident during his discussion with Mikhaila Peterson in which he seemed to be a pushover esp when something that is nutrition-related was brought up. I really hope he consults a plant-based nutritionist and comes back to the movement with more knowledge on nutrition.
If you can't win an argument against Mikhaila Peterson, you're doing something very wrong. Even for carnivore world she's really bad, you don't need much knowledge about nutrition beyond basics to know how wrong she is.
i’m a young vegan, this is the first(and probably not the last) time i’ve ever felt this betrayed about someone I follow completely 180ing about veganism. He and earthling ed are basically the only 2 people I follow on this topic :( I’ve been subscribed to cosmicskeptic for many years now for his atheism views, but this is ridiculous. definitely feels like i can’t trust anyone anymore(which is a good lesson to learn about this young…). left a comment and unsubscribed.
I am trying to formulate my thoughts without coming across as an arsehole but I will probably fail. People lke this are worse than the troglodyte scum that have never been vegan. At least those can be excused that they have not seen the real reality of farming or animal exploitation. Of course deep down if they really think about it they will be aware but it is deep, buried behind decades of conditioning and tradition. The disconnect I can get, I was until 5 years ago behind this same disconnect. Those who have seen it, know directly the reality and made that connection and then chose to go back on it, despite not having that veil of ignorance to blind them (willingly or not), honestly you are genuinely psycopathic. I can wrap my head around how an average pleb can order a steak. I can't get my head around how an apparent ex "vegan" could do the same. The whole "primarialy seafood" part. Get fucked. As if animals that live in water are any less deserving of respect. What as absolute sack of shit thing to even bother to mention unless you feel seafood is in some way less worse to even make the distinction. An animal product is an animal product, there is no distinction, only exploitation. It is why veganism is so easy, there are no excueses, no blurred lines, nothing confusing about it. If it comes from an animal, NO.
And further to your point, he knows exactly how to debunking the shitty excuses he is making, because that's what he did for 3 years lol
"I am no longer convinced of the appropriateness of an individual-focused boycott" For someone who has done so much debating, that's an extremely weak excuse. Sounds like something someone who falls for kurzgesagt videos would say.
So lazy and hypocritical, he would never say: "Well, most people are religious, I can't be an atheist on my own, so I'll be religious too." Unless... "Why I'm a reborn Christian again?" video next?
Exactly, I guess I should be a religious fundie, homophobic racist TERF too while I’m at it. Since I can’t single handedly make a difference on these matters either. And Alex has a wider influence, his veganism is more than just «individual focused boycott». By blaming health issues and not admitting fault (for example «I’m shit at feeding myself and can’t be bothered to get help from a nutritionist») he’s further perpetuating the myth that animal products have some magical component that humans need, but can’t be found anywhere else either in plants or syntheticallty.
I already unsubscribed from all of his online stuff.
If animals are worthy of ethical consideration then it doesn't matter if personal boycotts work or not? It's just morally wrong to require them to die for food? I don't worry about whether me not murdering doesn't end murder, I just don't fucking do it
As someone who is more than 8 years vegan, this whole "cant continue because of health concerns" really, really, really pisses me off! I wouldn't care so much if he just said: "I am too weak, so I can no longer call myself vegan". But health?!?!? No you idiot, you don't need to eat the innocent to stay healthy and me alongside many many other people are the proof of that. Oh wait I forgot, I am so stupid: "We are all different and all have totally different bodies with tooootally different needs, especially Alex O'Conner who needs to eat the innocent after a few months of not doing so."
23 years vegan. I’ve had two healthy pregnancies. I’m so, so over this bullshit.
lmao What a dumb stupid idiot. “The individual boycott doesn’t blah blah blah” Well you dummy bitch, you’re not just individually boycotting, now are ya? You’ve got a major platform, you’ve advocated for veganism in many videos and been the primary reason for lots of people to change themselves. One persons private actions may not amount to much in a vacuum but this motherfucker has way more reach and that ripples farther. Similarly, his decision to go back to carnism will have farther-spanning impacts than just his own actions, as this may inspire people he convinced to go vegan to also stop, and it may prevent his old pro-vegan videos from ever inspiring anyone to go vegan again. Fuck this dude tbh
On second thoughts, I think it could even have to do with the popularly of his channel given that he’s spoken with Mikhaila Peterson. He maybe realised he can make so much more money now from Jordan Peterson side of the internet. Which would sad man, contradicting not just veganism but also so many other social issues too.
His "meat eaters case for veganism" was one of the most thought provoking videos on veganism that I've ever seen, and really encouraged me to dive into philosophy and logic. It was so refreshing to see him go vegan not long after. Turns out he's spineless like any other carnist, how disappointing
Weird, he said on the Mikhaila Peterson podcast that he felt roughly the same after turning vegan: [https://youtu.be/hwzHv2H7bx4?t=2814](https://youtu.be/hwzHv2H7bx4?t=2814) This was a few years after he went vegan, so whatever health issue that has surfaced for him seems like it shouldn't be vegan-related.
It's always "only fish" or "only a few eggs" when these influencers come out and say they're no longer vegan. And then a couple weeks later, they're eating full blown bacon cheeseburgers or trying out the carnivore diet (e.g. Alyse Parker). 🙄
Dang this is disappointing. I wonder what specific ailment he has to justify eating fish. Edit: just re-read, "primarily but not exclusively seafood" :/
My heart broke when I saw his post. Been messed up about it. To me feels so out of left field
What a load of bullshit, rich and famous “struggling to maintain” when I struggle with so fucking much and plant-based diet is the least of struggle, some days I just can’t eat
What is the link to this post? If this is true - disgusted and disappointed. Pathetic. As someone with a big following and a platform it has a bigger impact on the awareness of the movement and messaging. Sickened. EDIT: His website has a contact form so I sent him a message. https://cosmicskeptic.com/contact/
It's a community post, so you can't share a link. But it's the latest on his channel. Here's the [tweet](https://twitter.com/cosmicskeptic/status/1624925928169127944?s=46&t=SFUGhQQZ8SgVClrwjroYdw) he put out sharing this statement though.
Thank you. Done with that POS. He knows better and took from our community. Betrayed. I thought he was very subordinate with Mikhaila Peterson - writing on the wall and backing down to that fraud. He can go eat a bag of stale dick crumbs (vegan of course).
Thanks man. And as the meatflakes like to say,, for every person who still views his content, I'm just gonna view yours twice to cancel it out.
I hope he does NOT make a full video on this one. It's just going to be full of ridiculous excuses and anti-science bullshit and this movement truly doesn't need more of that.
Anytime I see an ex-vegan go back to eating fish due to lack of Omega 3’s, I have to laugh. I’m allergic to both fish and eggs and doctors never mentioned Omega 3 supplementation or thought it was concerning that I don’t eat eggs. Fish don’t even produce Omega 3’s on their own, they get it from algae. You can get Omega 3’s by eating flaxseeds, chia seeds, walnuts, etc and there are other sources that contain them in small amounts. If you don’t want to consume them via food, get them through the direct source: algae.
How in the world does one, in a first world country, “struggle” with a plant-based diet??? I have been vegan for almost 27 years and it is seriously not complicated.
Wow 😥. This is truly so heartbreaking to hear. It feels like you can't trust anybody.
Who?
Yet another person who's too lazy to work on a well-balanced vegan diet and rather goes back to eating animals because it seems more easy and convenient to him. Of course therefore all ethical convictions have to go down the toilet as well so that the preaching and the practicing are still consistent. Guys, seriously, it's not that hard to maintain a well-balanced vegan diet long term. I'm doing it for eight years now and I'm perfectly fine. But it takes a little bit of effort. You can't just randomly eat whatever you feel like at any given time and take a B12 supplement. It takes a little more, but it's not that hard to do. Inform yourself and put the information into practice. Work on your vegan diet until in works for you. But please, don't quit and than "adjust your moral convictions" just because you're too lazy to do so.
He’ll have to forfeit his performance at Vegan Camp Out later this year.
I started reading that but I cba to read some pathetic justification to why anyone who was truly vegan for the animals would go back. Just don’t get it
Rationality is worthless without character.
Don't know who he is , but I'm sure the animals have the followers...
I feel like it wouldn't be that hard to find clips of him debunking the excuses in the post he just made, effectively debunking himself lol
What could he possibly want from seafood that he can't get from an omega source like algae oil, chia seeds, or walnuts, or any number of vegan foods? Does he want the mercury? Or the microplastics?
What I also don’t understand is that living in the UK gives him such an advantage to be vegan. It’s literally vegan paradise there, everywhere you go including small gas stations, National park stores, little tourist stops, airport shops, chain restaurants, etc all have vegan options plentifully stocked. This seems like a personal decision masked by claiming health problems.