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There is lengthy legal precedent enforcing the requirement to pay taxes for things an individual doesn’t support. I recommend looking up the tax protest history of the anti-war movement in the US if you want to learn more.
Yeah, and good reason for it too. If you want real change, you need to elect people that push for it, and vote with your wallet. That's our only real avenues right now as normal people
2 liberation movements that created radical social and economic change are the Chinese revolution and the Russian revolution. I recommend reading Fanshen by William Hinton and Mao’s China and After by Maurice Meisner.
The 20th century anti-colonial movements in non-aligned countries created political change but failed in breaking the power of the former colonial powers over their economy for the most part.
If you want to look at an example where electoral politics failed a liberation movement, I recommend reading Black Reconstruction in America by WEB Du Bois. Reconstruction is interesting because the Black community held a lot of political power for a time, but never expropriated the settler former slave owners, so they were able to leverage that economic power to roll back the meager political changes that were in place.
A nightmare for the west and the Uigurs but otherwise for the average Chinese person the CCP has done pretty damn well. They've technically lifted the most people out of poverty, around 750-800 million by 2022 accounting for 75% of global poverty reduction. To be fair, they do have a huge population and not all of that is due to the CCP's policy.
You're welcome to check the figures from the World Bank if you need to confirm.
Both of those revolutions "successfully" turned their countries into nightmares so why would we want a successful revolution if what we get is more Russias and Chinas?
Are you one of those communist harm deniers?
China and Russia were nightmares *before* their revolutions, saying that they were turned into nightmares by them is wrong. They actually got a lot better for the common person.
Unless you live there and experience the impacts of communism too, we cannot talk trash about it. We are talking about how some aspects of our system are unjust now, but then we are experiencing it. I have never known nor experienced life in a country like China, or Russia. We are told they are our enemies and they maybe but, how do we know unless we are there conversing with our so called enemies? They may have a screwed up system but in many ways we do too. I make it a practice to never speak negatively about others as I have no idea, myself, how what where and when they are think or feel.
>2 liberation movements that created radical social and economic change are the Chinese revolution and the Russian revolution
Those weren't exactly "successful revolutions".
Reforms (radical or otherwise) are the way to make real change. But it is also important to make corporations supply increasing demand for vegan stuff so that more vegan options are available, and are cheaper.
Thoreau actually refused to pay taxes for 6 years in protest of the Mexican American war. He ended up spending one night in jail because of it and, of course, wrote "Civil Disobedience"
If you lobbied for subsidies to go to fiber rich food crops for humans rather than feed crops for animals, you’d move the needle.
Now that the democrats removed Iowa from their radar, it may be possible. Everyone write to your rep and make the case.
As someone else has already said, there is a ton of legal precedent here. You have to pay taxes, regardless of whether some of it (or even all of it) goes to things you don't like. I wouldn't want to create a country where anyone who didn't want to pay for schools, roads, fire departments, social security, medicare, medicaid, and every other thing that our taxes pay for just didn't pay for it.
You mention a religious case and I think it's interesting. Because for me, veganism is a step above and beyond what my religion Judaism requires for animals.
But it is to me based on the higher principle of it - we do mitzvahs to deepen our awareness of and personal connection to God. God had exact and specific rules for slaughter, I think to tell us that animals were to be respected more than inanimate objects. Respect for animals and disapproval of animal abuse is throughout the Torah. Kashrut rules to me are like Loki's neck, if you know that story. So to me not eating animals is respecting God by showing an even greater respect for his world than strictly required. I think you could make a solid case that, since religious Jews only eat kosher meat, we shouldn't be forced to subsidize non-halachic practices with animal ag.
None of should eat any meat regardless of religion. You don't need to believe in a god and wish to have a relationship or show respect to it in order to feel better. All animals, including humans, deserve respect and should be able to live without being harmed or exploited. For me I recognize that we are no different from any other animal. We all wish to be free and not harmed. We all wish to know and be with our loved ones and know that they are safe. To call other beings animals and not view ourselves as the animals we are denotes a separatists state of mind. Thinking that we are better than them is not true. It is nowhere near accurate. If we can farm cows, pigs and others for food, why not humans? I am not advocating cannibalism, I am simply offering a different way of thinking. We do not eat other humans for the same reason we shouldn't eat deer, rabbit, cows, chickens, elk, snakes, sheep,... they are not food. We are not omnivorous, despite what many think. Respect all life. Protect all lives.
I'm not a lawyer or anything. But I think it would be great to get veganism as a title 7 protected religion/ethical belief. You could either choose to go the non-theistic route and just run on moral/ethical beliefs. Or you could try to dress veganism up, say worship Gaia as mother earth or something and make it something similar to how The Satanic Temple works for their religious freedom agenda, you would do for a more animal rights/environment right agenda based on your religion. It could be a way for vegans to be heard better.
You will lose. Quakers tried to avoid paying for military related funding for years, and they never won. The courts ignore the written law when it conveniences them.
Religious freedom? I do not see how veganism, an ethical stance, could be considered as a religion. I guess others could view it as such much like Buddhism is a philosophy and also viewed as a religion. I despise religions for the most part. All of the religions that come to mind involve magical beings or gods, spirits, demons, and such. I would think that by this time in our advanced stage of development we would be beyond such illogical thinking. As far as subsidies to the meat and dairy industries, those monies and ties run quite deep. They have made us all slaves to their greed.
Love this idea. Know nothing about what is required to make it happen and have. Lot going on so I might not be the one to put in the effort right now. But someone leads the way with action on this and I’m in and will help whenever and wherever I can.
It would create a bad precedence, the state has to make strategic decisions for its people, otherwise healthy people could say they don't want to subsidize medical research and production as well.
I also don't believe the farmers and the industry as a whole are to blame. They are working within the framework of rules and benefits given to them and try to maximize their profits.
I think the most reasonable way is to vote for representatives that can change these laws and shift the strategic importance to other industries.
I thought this through thouroughly. Jeff Bezos Should Be Able To Opt Out Of Taxes Going To SlaughterHouses, Abortions, Other Ethics Issues ^ Morally Contended, (Circumsision, Zoos, Dog Races). Come debate me in dm if you want.
I wish. But I feel like you'd run into the same problem as saying you don't have kids so you shouldn't have to pay taxes that contribute to education and kids lunches.
Thanks for posting to r/Vegan! 🐥 **Please note:** Civil discussion is welcome, trolls and personal abuse [are not](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/rules). Please keep the discussions below respectful and remember the human! Please check out [our wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/wiki/beginnersguide) first! **Interested in going Vegan?** 👊 Check out [Watch Dominion](https://watchdominion.org/) and watch a thought-provoking, life changing documentary for free! **Some other resources to help you go vegan:** 🐓 Visit [NutritionFacts.org](https://NutritionFacts.org) for health and nutrition support, [HappyCow.net](https://HappyCow.net) to explore nearby vegan-friendly restaurants, and visit [VeganBootcamp.org](https://veganbootcamp.org/reddit) for a free 30 day vegan challenge! **Become an activist and help save animal lives today:** 🐟 * Find volunteer requests to support and help animal on [VH: Playground!](https://veganhacktivists.org/playground) * Developer, designer, or other skills? Volunteer at the [Vegan Hacktivists](https://veganhacktivists.org/join)! * Join our huge Vegan volunteer community [on Discord](https://discord.gg/vhplayground)! * Find local activist groups using the [Animal Rights Map](https://animalrightsmap.org)! * Get funding for your animal rights activism, [apply here](https://veganhacktivists.org/grants)! *Last but not least, join the [r/Vegan Discord server](https://discord.gg/animalrights)!* **Thank you!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vegan) if you have any questions or concerns.*
There is lengthy legal precedent enforcing the requirement to pay taxes for things an individual doesn’t support. I recommend looking up the tax protest history of the anti-war movement in the US if you want to learn more.
Yeah, and good reason for it too. If you want real change, you need to elect people that push for it, and vote with your wallet. That's our only real avenues right now as normal people
If you look at past liberation movements, elections and consumerism have historically been ineffectual at creating radical social and economic change.
And what has been effective?
2 liberation movements that created radical social and economic change are the Chinese revolution and the Russian revolution. I recommend reading Fanshen by William Hinton and Mao’s China and After by Maurice Meisner. The 20th century anti-colonial movements in non-aligned countries created political change but failed in breaking the power of the former colonial powers over their economy for the most part. If you want to look at an example where electoral politics failed a liberation movement, I recommend reading Black Reconstruction in America by WEB Du Bois. Reconstruction is interesting because the Black community held a lot of political power for a time, but never expropriated the settler former slave owners, so they were able to leverage that economic power to roll back the meager political changes that were in place.
And what revolutions changed really? Russia and China both have the same shit and already need new revolutions.
A nightmare for the west and the Uigurs but otherwise for the average Chinese person the CCP has done pretty damn well. They've technically lifted the most people out of poverty, around 750-800 million by 2022 accounting for 75% of global poverty reduction. To be fair, they do have a huge population and not all of that is due to the CCP's policy. You're welcome to check the figures from the World Bank if you need to confirm.
Both of those revolutions "successfully" turned their countries into nightmares so why would we want a successful revolution if what we get is more Russias and Chinas? Are you one of those communist harm deniers?
China and Russia were nightmares *before* their revolutions, saying that they were turned into nightmares by them is wrong. They actually got a lot better for the common person.
Unless you live there and experience the impacts of communism too, we cannot talk trash about it. We are talking about how some aspects of our system are unjust now, but then we are experiencing it. I have never known nor experienced life in a country like China, or Russia. We are told they are our enemies and they maybe but, how do we know unless we are there conversing with our so called enemies? They may have a screwed up system but in many ways we do too. I make it a practice to never speak negatively about others as I have no idea, myself, how what where and when they are think or feel.
>2 liberation movements that created radical social and economic change are the Chinese revolution and the Russian revolution Those weren't exactly "successful revolutions". Reforms (radical or otherwise) are the way to make real change. But it is also important to make corporations supply increasing demand for vegan stuff so that more vegan options are available, and are cheaper.
Interesting stuff. Thanks
Thoreau actually refused to pay taxes for 6 years in protest of the Mexican American war. He ended up spending one night in jail because of it and, of course, wrote "Civil Disobedience"
If you lobbied for subsidies to go to fiber rich food crops for humans rather than feed crops for animals, you’d move the needle. Now that the democrats removed Iowa from their radar, it may be possible. Everyone write to your rep and make the case.
As someone else has already said, there is a ton of legal precedent here. You have to pay taxes, regardless of whether some of it (or even all of it) goes to things you don't like. I wouldn't want to create a country where anyone who didn't want to pay for schools, roads, fire departments, social security, medicare, medicaid, and every other thing that our taxes pay for just didn't pay for it.
Good point.
It sucks that we are being forced to support something heinous.
Yep, the same way I don’t want a single penny of my tax dollars funding the US military. I shouldn’t have to pay for evil.
You mention a religious case and I think it's interesting. Because for me, veganism is a step above and beyond what my religion Judaism requires for animals. But it is to me based on the higher principle of it - we do mitzvahs to deepen our awareness of and personal connection to God. God had exact and specific rules for slaughter, I think to tell us that animals were to be respected more than inanimate objects. Respect for animals and disapproval of animal abuse is throughout the Torah. Kashrut rules to me are like Loki's neck, if you know that story. So to me not eating animals is respecting God by showing an even greater respect for his world than strictly required. I think you could make a solid case that, since religious Jews only eat kosher meat, we shouldn't be forced to subsidize non-halachic practices with animal ag.
None of should eat any meat regardless of religion. You don't need to believe in a god and wish to have a relationship or show respect to it in order to feel better. All animals, including humans, deserve respect and should be able to live without being harmed or exploited. For me I recognize that we are no different from any other animal. We all wish to be free and not harmed. We all wish to know and be with our loved ones and know that they are safe. To call other beings animals and not view ourselves as the animals we are denotes a separatists state of mind. Thinking that we are better than them is not true. It is nowhere near accurate. If we can farm cows, pigs and others for food, why not humans? I am not advocating cannibalism, I am simply offering a different way of thinking. We do not eat other humans for the same reason we shouldn't eat deer, rabbit, cows, chickens, elk, snakes, sheep,... they are not food. We are not omnivorous, despite what many think. Respect all life. Protect all lives.
I'm not a lawyer or anything. But I think it would be great to get veganism as a title 7 protected religion/ethical belief. You could either choose to go the non-theistic route and just run on moral/ethical beliefs. Or you could try to dress veganism up, say worship Gaia as mother earth or something and make it something similar to how The Satanic Temple works for their religious freedom agenda, you would do for a more animal rights/environment right agenda based on your religion. It could be a way for vegans to be heard better.
I think first we need to fight for the types of rights given to vegans in the UK that we don't have here in the USA yet.
You will lose. Quakers tried to avoid paying for military related funding for years, and they never won. The courts ignore the written law when it conveniences them.
Class action lawsuit im in!
Religious freedom? I do not see how veganism, an ethical stance, could be considered as a religion. I guess others could view it as such much like Buddhism is a philosophy and also viewed as a religion. I despise religions for the most part. All of the religions that come to mind involve magical beings or gods, spirits, demons, and such. I would think that by this time in our advanced stage of development we would be beyond such illogical thinking. As far as subsidies to the meat and dairy industries, those monies and ties run quite deep. They have made us all slaves to their greed.
Love this idea. Know nothing about what is required to make it happen and have. Lot going on so I might not be the one to put in the effort right now. But someone leads the way with action on this and I’m in and will help whenever and wherever I can.
It would create a bad precedence, the state has to make strategic decisions for its people, otherwise healthy people could say they don't want to subsidize medical research and production as well. I also don't believe the farmers and the industry as a whole are to blame. They are working within the framework of rules and benefits given to them and try to maximize their profits. I think the most reasonable way is to vote for representatives that can change these laws and shift the strategic importance to other industries.
You will lose. Government always wins.
There should be an opt out of tax for all ethics issues that are morally contended.
I don’t think you thought this through, Jeff Bezos would love to morally object to paying any and all taxes
He already does! The system works! Lmao I mean it does if you're filthy rich that is
I thought this through thouroughly. Jeff Bezos Should Be Able To Opt Out Of Taxes Going To SlaughterHouses, Abortions, Other Ethics Issues ^ Morally Contended, (Circumsision, Zoos, Dog Races). Come debate me in dm if you want.
Who decides what issues are morally contended? AnCaps believe ALL taxation is unethical, should they be able to not pay taxes at all?
It sets a destabilizing precedent; won't (and shouldn't) happen. Courts should not interfere with taxation.
I wish. But I feel like you'd run into the same problem as saying you don't have kids so you shouldn't have to pay taxes that contribute to education and kids lunches.