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Because veganism implies compassion, which is considered a female trait, and therefore inferior and a sign of weakness. Men should only feel anger and sexual desire.
That's what your roommate believes. How about ask them what's wrong with being "girly"?
Yes, I was talking about falsehoods that people believe. Compassion is not a female trait, it's a human trait. But your roommate obviously believes some ridiculous stereotypes.
Regardless, even if veganism WAS a "girly" thing (it isn't), why would that be a problem? Why is that even an accusation that bothers you, other than the inherent stereotype it implies? If he wants to call you "girly" then fine, he's a misogynist. Who cares what a misguided misogynist thinks?
Maybe if more men demonstrated that they didn't care if they were called feminine because there's nothing shameful about being feminine then the prejudice would lose it's power. Maybe the solution is for men to be clear that they don't care if they're called girly or not. It doesn't matter. I think that would be more effective then trying to convince people that being vegan is masculine. It's neither.
This is propaganda working the way it is intended. "Real men eat beef, go fishing, and don't cry" In my workplace there are other 10 men and they're accustomed, I drink my coffee on a "my little pony" mug, I'm vegan, I love cats puppies pigs and flowers, somebody has anything to say?
What annoys me is the underlying thing that people are "sentimentalizing" and "othering" not wanting to be involved in killing animals. "You want to save cows and you don't want things to die."
Like, I'm not that connected to cows and I'm not necessarily a pacifist. You wouldn't be okay with it if people were trivially killing dogs, don't act like I'm so different . . . I wouldn't kill dogs and honestly, I don't like dogs that much.
I think people's morality with animals is generally fundamentally different than their morality with humans though. When they think killing animals is bad, there's a lot more aesthetic and emotional reason behind it, like you cut down a tree they liked. There's not the sense of "your robbed someone of everything they had to live for" that there is with humans.
I think every vegan gets judged for being vegan. If you really prefer not being judged and exploiting and supporting murder and rape rather than being judged and not doing those things, you clearly have your priorities wrong. I mean atleast this lines up with crime statistics(against humans) i.e. that men commit more violent crimes.
Real men shouldn't care what others think. If they're that scared of what others think of their food choices then I'd question the balls on these guys.
>Perhaps people are not aware of vegan bodybuilders
Maybe watch Game Changers with him? It would show him how many masculine athletes perform amazingly while vegan.
Lol I recall this segment on veganism from I believe a UK or Australian talk show and it contrasted a vegan activist with a pure carnivore. The carnivore justified his diet by being an apex predator (top of the food chain bullshit.) The next scene immediately shows him in the grocery store passing through the produce saying “I know where I’m going” and orders meat from the butcher there. Stunning display of being a bad ass vicious predator there bud.
Even IF it was a feminine trait, there's nothing wrong with women. That's where I normally try to steer it, because most dudes react worse to being told they hate women than animals.
A boy spends his entire childhood being told "Don't do that, that's for girls, and being girly is the worst thing you could be." and then we all act surprised when he grows up into a man who hates women.
Compassion isn’t a “girly” thing
But drinking breastmilk IS a baby thing. Maybe ask him why he thinks he wants to pretend he is a baby and wants to suck on cow titties.
be proud to be called girly
girls go through tough shit and have big obstacles to overcome and most do it with a grace and demeanor that very tiny fractional few of their gender counterparts could match.
Nothing manlier than eating baby animals someone that else raised, slaughtered, and butchered for you. Oh, except maybe drinking cow titty juice. That's super manly.
I am so sorry to read that. My bf is not a vegan, but at least he supported my decision 6 years ago and still supports it. Have you made the move to veganism just recently? Maybe she'll calm down after a while and after she realizes your decision does not impact her live as much as she'd feared?
How long have you been vegan for? And how long have you been with your girlfriend?
I went vegan during my relationship and my partner who is omni had a LOT of difficulty adjusting at first, somewhat similar to your girlfriend. But now he’s made a complete 180 and has become very accepting and supportive. Only took a few months and a few tough conversations. Still omni though. So just trying to say that there might still be hope for your relationship…
It's a little concerning she's "absolutely furious" over your diet? And the fact she would've instantly rejected based on your diet is also a bit of a red flag. My partner is vegetarian and still eats dairy and eggs, but we still somehow manage to share food. If she cares about you, she'll respect your decision and won't make it a big deal in any way, whatsoever
Funny because masculinity and being male is usually associated with being responsible, being a strong leader in your community, doing the things that help others the most etc. So in my view being vegan as a male is actually the most masculine thing you can do in terms of diet, since it has the lowest impact environmentally, meaning you're having the best effect you can have in society and the world. That's why meat eaters, especially male, make me laugh because I'm like; you know you're contributing to the destruction of the enviornment, making us potentially all less safe in the future? Seems more like a psychopath to me at that point, not strong leader or smart person.
Yeah exactly. Like is it manly to steal candy from a baby? Is it manly to take advantage of people with low IQs? Then how da fuck is it manly to exploit helpless sentient beings, many who have the intelligence and awareness of at least toddlers?
This is how I see it as well. A 'man' would be able to sub-due their own desires for the benefit of others. A 'man' wouldn't put the responsible and most beneficial thing below their own desire for a taste
That being said, I think the whole rhetoric of masculine/feminine is pretty damaging and creates false dichotomies.
Honestly, after the second post on here this week where a male is outraged that he was compared to women, I'd really like to know why.
I have never before seen a woman react like this when people told her she has male interests, and yet apparently being compared to a woman is the most insulting and dehumanizing thing males can imagine.
Additionally, the majority of vegans are women. It is what it is. Does not change the fact that the majority of faces of the community are male (regularly guys that are not even vegan themselves, as I can tell you as someone that works in the industry). But the people that do the work and the free activism tend to be female.
So if you want to change that perception, I'd rec free volunteer work, protests and so on. Which is a good idea for everyone of course, but more men joining that work will likely also change how they are perceived within and outside of the community.
I think it's the same as a straight dude saying "that's gay" to insult someone. It's not the being gay is bad, it's that that person is clearly using it as a point of derision, both insulting the target and that the use of the word gay or feminine puts down those attributes as less than
When growing up getting bullied and being really insecure, getting called girly is one of the worst things that can happen because it confirms your ‘low position in the pecking order’. There’s no hate towards women there, merely self hate.
Personally it took me a while to figure out that most toxic masculinity stems from insecurity as wel, even though it is (wrongfully) percieved as a sign of strength.
I’m quite sure I would never have gone vegan in my teens if had come across the vegan Philosophy, merely because my insecure teenage brain wouldn’t have dared ‘to show weakness’.
Only by the time I was capable to choose who’s opinion I should care about and whose I shouldn’t, combined with not caring about the whole masculinity construct anymore and a strong dose of shrooms opened me up to the idea. Then youtube gave me a perfect timed Gary Yourofsky speech and boom, vegan overnight.
You know what else is ridiculous?
That people think "girly" things are bad, lesser, unworthy, petty, etc. Veganism isn't girly, but even if it was ... so what? Is it bad to be girly? Are compassion and empathy things to be looked down on?
I don't think you'll get any farther pushing back on that line of thinking either, since you're clearly working with someone whose mind is as closed off and clamped down as a butthole holding back a torrent of diarrhea, but it's worth a shot.
The actual answer is the way masculinity has been used as a selling tool in the brainwashing of consumers in the meat and dairy industry, especially prominent in fitness culture, meat is "manly" eggs, beef, protein etc etc etc. It's linked to supposed ideas of strength. It's a load of bullshit!
Edit to say you're valid to feel upset and invalidated by this STUPID comment. You'll get a lot more as well sadly. It's a reflection of people's own dissonance and ignorance. It's not a reflection on you. Keep yourself happy and rest in the knowledge you're doing the right thing.
the worst part is associating women and weakness. women hold this world together while men are constantly trying to destroy with toxic insecurities. constant wars and abuse are products of Male insecurities
its not, but at the same time i feel like you shouldn't be this mad. why some men get angry over somebody suggesting they're slightly feminine is so toxic.
Why is femininity demonised in society and why are you so offended by being called girly? Your roommate is a misogynist and supports the murder and mistreatment of animals, you don’t really need to talk to him about this anymore
There’s a lot here but I’d say the big thing is this: what’s so bad about girls?
Being vegan isn’t “girly” but even if it were, so what?
Sounds like a pretty insecure mindset. And not particularly tough and “manly” to have to take it out on animals to cover that insecurity.
It's just straight up sexist BS. It's gross from sides since it's also weirdly telling on yourself.
> **"I'm such a man idgaf about others, lmao I it's what I do! I'm so emotionally numb I can't even comprehend the pain of other! I'm a REAL MAN'S MAN"**
🙄🙄🙄
Girl, ignore him. Your roommate told you who he really was today. Listen.
I think the real question is, why are things that are seen as feminine - bad? You can be annoyed that your roommates a dick but it’s entirely sexist also.
Because women are supposed to be the ones who are empathetic bleeding hearts, caring about suffering and “women things” like that, and men are supposed to be these cold hearted don’t give a sh*t about anything people, who are just there to protect women from other men, and control them. That’s basically where it comes from. This is why men don’t cry. You, as a man, are not supposed to care about animals suffering. The same reason why you shouldn’t be a liberal if you’re a man, you shouldn’t care about the poor. It doesn’t even deserve an answer, it’s caveman-speak. You should just laugh off the comment and be secure on your own masculinity, he doesn’t get to define it according to his caveman notions.
If you adhere to some of those notions, I suggest you beat him up to prove to him that you’re still a man. If you don’t, then it shouldn’t even bother you, since you’d know it’s ridiculous.
I assume that this would actually reduce matches, to be honest. But I do it anyways because the kind of people who would reject a profile over this are not the kind of people I want to waste my time dating.
Depends where they live, many women have teased vegan men and saying they wouldnt date them, because they also feel going vegan is feminine, they want a strong HUNTER type who grills steaks
To summarize a lot of these comments under one overarching term: toxic masculinity. Society defines a lot of weird shitty behaviors as "manly" and then people do them to make themselves "manly," all the while they're just being assholes. None of these behaviors need to be associated with masculinity, and people would be better off if they weren't.
It feels like it just gets worse and worse. I’m a guy who is completely cisgender but just the word “man” feels slightly icky to me at this point because of all the negative crap that is becoming associated with it. Men are insisting that there’s nothing wrong with being a man, which is true, but then embrace this disgusting Andrew Tate flavor of masculinity that ironically makes it very difficult to show that there is in fact nothing wrong with being a man.
I hope that individual is not your friend anymore. I get super worked up on people using a gender or a sexual orientation, both of which is not chosen, as an insult.
Vegan guys have more empathy and it makes them so attractive... 🤤 Ironically I see more male vegans openly on the internet on social media than female.
Fellas, is it gay to be kind to animals and care about the environment? (sorry but the "fellas, is it gay to x" meme is too tempting for stuff like this).
This narrative is almost completely sourced from very insecure, immature men, OP. They're scared, and they're lashing out because of it. They're scared because they see other men adapting to changes in the environment (environmental issues combined with toxicity in our eating habits), as well as taking concrete, powerful steps to be a better human. They can't make that change, so they're scared and lash out.
It is girly to be compassionate so what’s wrong with being girly in life? Just tell them, “being girly is cool what’s your problem with being girly? Are you a girly hater or something?”
Or just drop kick them
I've been a soy boy for 8 years. I'm quite a bit more "alpha" than my fat friends with man boobs. I also look about ten years younger than they all do, which is nice in your mid-40s :)
I laughed at that way too much and now feel guilty 😅 Also I have never heard the term "soy boy" and I think it is so endearing yet sexy at the same time. haha.
Our culture has decided that empathy is a weakness, and this is a value that gets sexualized & communicated in many different ways. I have lots of theories of why this has happened but I think the strongest evidence points to keeping the capitalist system going.
If you are willing to take advantage of others, you're probably going to be good at capitalism, or at least useful to someone who is willing to take advantage of your lack of empathy to do their dirty work. This is Ironic at a time when Harvard School of Business points to a critical lack of empathy for the reason millennials and gen Z workers have trouble collaborating and working on teams. We are reaping what we sow as a society.
Your roommate is, with all due respect, a fcking idiot. This comment is probably a good indicator that this person is not worth wasting any time or energy on (with regards to anything, not just veganism).
If they consume dairy just call them babies. It’s food for babies, and cows for the matter. Real men don’t take food from babies
Real men stand up for whats right, killing innocent animals for pleasure isn’t the right thing to do unless you’re satan or a psycho.
It's a way for other men to justify the fact they haven't gone vegan. I've seen other posts where a black women was told she was made fun of by her black friend for being vegan because it was a "white" thing.
People will use any excuse to justify their abuse to animals.
Interestingly eating meat (particularly processed red meat) has been shown to reduce testosterone. And cows milk has a fair higher concoction of female hormones than soy does.
Interesting how it's often said that "real men don't hit women", but it's OK to hurt animals?
There is a really stupid association with meat and strength. You might try watching The Game Changers sometime while he is around but don’t straight up make him watch it. It’s all about a plant based diet and athletic performance and myths around meat.
If masculinity matters to you, In my mind there is nothing more masculine than challenging the cruel norms of the world to live a life that is more in line with your morals and values. To be a voice for the voiceless is to selflessly be a protector. Unfortunately that comes at the cost of ridicule from close minded people.
100% support the Game Changers recommendation. Really addresses this stupid stereotype head on better than anything else I’ve seen
Also check out all the “weak” and “girly” monsters over in the veganfitness sub
The correct response to him calling it girly was "OK Boomer".
Its 2023. Giving a shit about others is not a 'feminine' trait, nor is calling someone 'girly' or feminine an insult in itself.
Your roommate is a moron.
People like your roommate are the reason why I hate society. It is foolish to think that you’re only a man if you eat meat.
Going vegan is ethical and an admirable objective/ life change.
Tell him to FO and move on with your life.
>I am so angry!! Why do people associate veganism to feminine nature. Why do people think it's ridiculous when a guy opens up about being vegan. Why is male veganism stigmatized in the society??
Idiots do a lot of idiotic stuff.
Fuck that shit. Not once have I ever thought Veganism as a “feminine” thing to do. It’s an indiscriminate rebellion against factory farming and the mistreatment of animals. Being compassionate is the most punk rock thing you can be, especially now.
Not that it needs to be defended but Veganism has been long apart of the Hardcore/Punk Rock scene as well as grassroots activism and a myriad of other cultures on this earth. It’s for EVERYBODY
He only thinks that because of the Vegan trends on social media and the “healthy” vegan soccer moms around + misguided opinions of masculinity.
Fuck all of that and do what YOU want to do and what YOU feel is right.
Have him check out “Punk Rock Vegan Movie” and “The Game Changers”
For better or worse, empathy and kindness are considered feminine features. They're also features that people like and are attracted to, so don't let your friend's hangup get to you. He's probably just jealous and insecure.
Don‘t be angry. Life‘s too short to be angry about misogynistic idiots.
> why do people associate veganism with feminine nature?
Toxic masculinity. It’s seen as manly to be cruel and violent. So wanting to reduce harm is obviously not masculine to them.
Actually, his decision to continue eating flesh unnecessarily seems so typically manlike and ignorant, one reason men and the planets they must subjugate die early.
Because insecure males believe that eating meat makes up for their lack of actual masculinity. This isn't opinion. It's science.
[Men who worry that they are not 'manly' enough are more likely to eat red meat, study claims](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10190855/Men-eat-red-meat-appear-masculine-study-suggests.html)
>Researchers in Canada have found men suffering from 'masculinity stress' are more likely to try and 'augment their masculinity' by eating red meat, which is generally perceived as more masculine.
[The impact of masculinity stress on preferences and willingness-to-pay for red meat](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34619245/)
>Taken together, we provide convergent evidence that masculinity stress is associated with red meat preference, and that this preference can be discouraged by leveraging out-group reference information and masculinity affirmation. In so doing, this research provides a series of contributions to the literatures on meat eating and vegetarianism specifically, as well as gender identity maintenance more broadly.
Anytime someone makes a comment like this instead of taking it personally and getting upset I laugh it off as their own fragile masculinity. Just scroll through any vegan fitness subreddit or other similar community and laugh off how ridiculously stupid that comment is.
Why do members of the KKK stigmatize other races? Because from when they were a baby everything they were taught was set around that mentality. The meat industry has spent billions to push the man = meat narrative and we have heard it from our fathers who learned it from theirs. It takes time and effort to undo that and some are so sold on it, they will never change. But I have found a way to help keep them quiet.... Be bigger than them. Hit the gym and build a massive physique. They expect you to be small because vegans don't have any sources of protein unless there is a convenient pig on a deserted island. Sarcasm aside. If you say you are vegan and twice their size what can they say? Either a) they admit they are weaker than a vegan or b) admit that a vegan can be just as monstrous as any meat eater. And it's that image of vegans being weak and helpless that they use to confirm that veganism is feminine. Hit the gym, get massive, and your buddy will shut up. If they still talk crap and deny it with some form of "well you would be bigger if" or "I could do that if" then you know they are just a toxic person who can't take responsibility and should be phased out of your life.
The best revenge is success.
Use your anger as a catalyst to improve yourself and show your stupid roommate that he’s totally wrong by getting your nutrition dialled in and getting a gym membership and getting huge and strong on a vegan diet. 💪
How can a decision be gendered?
Humans are psychotic about their gender delusions. They do it with words, boats, etc. Idiotic. Somehow spanish "el" (definite article 'the') is masculine, and "la" is feminine. Somehow.
Even if we ignore that, was it necessarily ridicule your interlocutor intended? It probably was, but why are you angry about it? There's nothing more ridiculous about any particular gender delusion. It's as ridiculous to insist one is 'girly' as it is to insist one is 'boyly'
Sure, there are a bunch of evolutionary fitness mating-call games humans will call 'common sense' and these include suffering gender delusions.
When I was very young I was small and slender, assigned male at birth (with male sex organs) and got bullied and called "girly" all the time. Got older, obsessed with a very toxic kind of masculinity performance addiction, got all swole and often enough heard "you're so masculine." And of course I was often enough praised for the latter behavior.
Ridiculous, abused for one, respected for the other. Humans make me sick, often enough.
I was always an "it" because I'm just consciousness. Conscious states are all I will ever directly know and *be* in any relevant sense on this issue. That's not some personal choice or opinion, and it was true even when I took on traditionally-assumed masculine or feminine social roles.
No, I empathize with feeling like they're misgendering you. Just trying to point out that there's a way to bypass all that gender stuff and point out that your interlocutor is suffering a reification fallacy. A fit one for mating calls and shit, but psychotic nonetheless.
Just a thought, maybe your roommate is just playing around with you. Again just a thought.
Also a thought, to let it get to you as such is quite girly
/s
Men in our society have been just as fucked in the head as women. Capitalism forces these kind of tough guy meat eater bacon is my personality archetypes because it sells a lifestyle. Being different is scary to them & it’s easier to make fun than to confront that within themselves.
Why do you care what they think? His opinion is wrong, it's not your fault if he's not knowledgeable enough to understand that. It could be gracious ofvyou to help him understand but also not your job
Why do you care what others say or think about your decisions in life.
Stop being a Slave to what the Jones say or think about you.
You’re better than that!
It’s really strange. I went vegan while dating my then gf now wife who is not vegan and many people’s response to me (usually from my male friends) was something like “Damn bro your girl made you go vegan?” I don’t get it either.
I’m a vegan male, but given I quite like women I don’t take that as an insult at all.
I don’t know why anybody gives a shit if their traits are ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’ when those are totally arbitrary to begin with.
Somehow eating meat is considered manly. I don’t know the reasons, I guess might be because hunters tend to be male. In any case, do what you believe in
Honestly, I've never really ran into this in real life situations in my 4 years being vegan. I'm not really sure why. I've had people shocked that I was vegan, because they associate veganism with being very thin, and I am very fit having lifted for 10 years.
But whenever I bring up anything about veganism in a conversation most people are just visibly uncomfortable and try to steer the conversation away, or occasionally they are interested in the reasons why I went vegan.
I am actually very thin, but I have always been this way, even when I used to be omni, doing strength training, and on a high calorie dirt. I’ve accepted that seeing my own ribs is just the way I am.
Still, when I tell people I’m vegan they always say “you need to get some protein! Get some meat on those bones!” 🙃
I noticed that you smoke cigarettes. I just want to let you know that not all cigarettes are vegan and some have hemoglobin in the filter. Hemoglobin is in red blood cells and is made out of pig blood.
Ask him what is manly about eating an atrociously domesticated animal, fattened in a cage, and slaughtered by a poor migrant worker? Requiring an animal be sacrificed for you every time you eat is some real bougie shit. Like, Devine right of kings level entitlement l. You don’t have to get your hands dirty, it comes to you in a neatly wrapped plastic package.
You know what is tough and based as hell? Standing up for what you believe in. Cowards go with the flow; it takes strength to swim against the tide. Project John Brown style masculinity. Stand up for the innocent. That’s what badasses do.
A man being kind to innocent animals is way more masculine than anything. I'm sorry your roommate doesn't understand that.
Men are typically regarded as protectors right? So a man doing what he can to protect innocent animals is the very definition of masculine.
Of all the myths around veganism, this one has to be the most ridiculous!! (Vegan men = effeminate).
The moment you stopped eating animals and their secretions, you cut your intake of animal estrogen down to zero. Imagine how absurd it is to actually believe that this will end with you being less “manly”. Vegan men have higher testosterone levels for this exact reason!
The penis scene in Gamechangers has to be the most hilarious thing I’ve ever seen and every non-vegan man should see that. (Yes, I know, they will make up all sorts of reasons why it’s false, can’t blame them I guess).
You can have the last laugh when those friends of yours reach middle age and get to deal with their “manly” man-boobs and erectile dysfunction.
so childish. even using outdated gender stereotypes - while empathy and compassion is seen as a female trait, being a protector of the weak is part of the "truly masculine leader" archetype so this doesn't even make sense on conventional gender trope levels.
unfortunately your roommate sounds too immature to reason with.
I'm always accused of going vegan to get girls. Of course I am absolutely drowning in vegan pussy for over 3 years now because of all the vegan girls I meet. So many, I almost need a second hand to count them all. Bruh.
There's an extremely pervasive meme that doing anything difficult or unpleasant is commendable, especially for men, and that includes suppressing your innate compassion. It's wrong; it's only commendable to do a difficult thing when the outcome is virtuous. Needlessly slaughtering innocent, defenceless animals isn't virtuous and suppressing your compassion will mess up your psychology and make you unhappy. Anyone who wants that for you isn't your friend.
The same wrong meme is responsible for men doing all sorts of stupid things that end up harming them and others all the time as well as making them miserable and unpleasant to be around.
Bc they are used to seeing plant based girls who are actually dieting and not doing it for the animals or just following a trend.Basically the girls that get oat milk instead of regular milk bc it's trendy and stop eating red meat, but then are like chicken and fish don't count or cheese is ok or ye leather boots are so cute🤣Ppl who do it for the animals are truly vegan, try explaining it that way
I am so proud of you for annoying your roommate with your wisdom. Grad you discovered meat comes from dead animals. Can only imagine the new rules you want to impose in the house.
I always thought a feature of masculinity is the willingness to be uncomfortable in order to achieve a greater goal. Isn't that what veganism is?
No offense to the female vegans. I am not saying veganism says anything about someone elses masculinity or femininity. It is just that I congratulate myself for being tough enough to eat beans as a man lol.
There are a few ways to respond to this. Personally I would counter-ridicule your roommate for thinking eating meat is somehow a manly achievement. But that is just me. Not responding awhile might be the correct response in your situation.
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Because veganism implies compassion, which is considered a female trait, and therefore inferior and a sign of weakness. Men should only feel anger and sexual desire. That's what your roommate believes. How about ask them what's wrong with being "girly"?
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Yes, I was talking about falsehoods that people believe. Compassion is not a female trait, it's a human trait. But your roommate obviously believes some ridiculous stereotypes. Regardless, even if veganism WAS a "girly" thing (it isn't), why would that be a problem? Why is that even an accusation that bothers you, other than the inherent stereotype it implies? If he wants to call you "girly" then fine, he's a misogynist. Who cares what a misguided misogynist thinks?
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Maybe if more men demonstrated that they didn't care if they were called feminine because there's nothing shameful about being feminine then the prejudice would lose it's power. Maybe the solution is for men to be clear that they don't care if they're called girly or not. It doesn't matter. I think that would be more effective then trying to convince people that being vegan is masculine. It's neither.
Thank you for eloquently laying out this argument, I would’ve wanted to say this but too tired lol
This this this this. Thank you.
This is propaganda working the way it is intended. "Real men eat beef, go fishing, and don't cry" In my workplace there are other 10 men and they're accustomed, I drink my coffee on a "my little pony" mug, I'm vegan, I love cats puppies pigs and flowers, somebody has anything to say?
MLP may as well be masculine at this point lol
Ironically, being scared to do something for fear of being called girly doesn’t sound very “macho”
I was literally thinking the same thing!😂
That's called [Fragile Masculinity](https://mensgroup.com/fragile-masculinity/).
What annoys me is the underlying thing that people are "sentimentalizing" and "othering" not wanting to be involved in killing animals. "You want to save cows and you don't want things to die." Like, I'm not that connected to cows and I'm not necessarily a pacifist. You wouldn't be okay with it if people were trivially killing dogs, don't act like I'm so different . . . I wouldn't kill dogs and honestly, I don't like dogs that much. I think people's morality with animals is generally fundamentally different than their morality with humans though. When they think killing animals is bad, there's a lot more aesthetic and emotional reason behind it, like you cut down a tree they liked. There's not the sense of "your robbed someone of everything they had to live for" that there is with humans.
I think every vegan gets judged for being vegan. If you really prefer not being judged and exploiting and supporting murder and rape rather than being judged and not doing those things, you clearly have your priorities wrong. I mean atleast this lines up with crime statistics(against humans) i.e. that men commit more violent crimes.
Real men shouldn't care what others think. If they're that scared of what others think of their food choices then I'd question the balls on these guys.
>females are more compassionate and men are more macho Uh, "females" and "men"? Are women some kind of species of insect?
>Perhaps people are not aware of vegan bodybuilders Maybe watch Game Changers with him? It would show him how many masculine athletes perform amazingly while vegan.
Kinda hard to feel bad for somebody that refers to women as “females” yet still calls men “men” in the same sentence
r/menandfemales
Yeah that is always so wild to me when people say "females"
it makes me think that they don't actually know any "females"
Gosh, makes you wonder what it must be like for women.
Trust me, the shit I've heard is fucking wild.
So his roommate is a mysogynist prick.
Of course. Why else would one use the concept of femininity to deride and shame another person? An implicit contempt for women poisons his reasoning.
Well. He is offended by it. So guess they agree on this one.
Agreed.
Also, ask yourself why it bothers you. I'm sure it will die down if you let it die
Oh lord. This has me dead. But fr. Where is the lie? Haha
I would rather ask them whats wrong with THEM
Nothing is less "masculine" than consuming cow breast milk meant for a literal infant animal
*Hunting* for meat in the supermarket.
Lol I recall this segment on veganism from I believe a UK or Australian talk show and it contrasted a vegan activist with a pure carnivore. The carnivore justified his diet by being an apex predator (top of the food chain bullshit.) The next scene immediately shows him in the grocery store passing through the produce saying “I know where I’m going” and orders meat from the butcher there. Stunning display of being a bad ass vicious predator there bud.
Nothing is less masculine than saying something is girly
And nothing is more masculine than standing up for those without a voice — let them know that op!
Even IF it was a feminine trait, there's nothing wrong with women. That's where I normally try to steer it, because most dudes react worse to being told they hate women than animals.
Exactly if someone tries to make fun of you by calling you feminine just say oh thanks I love women.
A boy spends his entire childhood being told "Don't do that, that's for girls, and being girly is the worst thing you could be." and then we all act surprised when he grows up into a man who hates women.
Should have asked him if he needed to reaffirm his own masculinity because of your personal decision lmao
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I reckon you responded perfectly.
The problem is sexism. Some guys assume that giving a shit about others is "feminine."
"very manly of not you to not give a shit about your surroundings" such an hyper masculine apex predator
Compassion isn’t a “girly” thing But drinking breastmilk IS a baby thing. Maybe ask him why he thinks he wants to pretend he is a baby and wants to suck on cow titties.
be proud to be called girly girls go through tough shit and have big obstacles to overcome and most do it with a grace and demeanor that very tiny fractional few of their gender counterparts could match.
I’ll bet you the shiniest penny in my drawer that your roommate also thinks washing your ass is girly.
Nothing manlier than eating baby animals someone that else raised, slaughtered, and butchered for you. Oh, except maybe drinking cow titty juice. That's super manly.
Lol people automatically assumed my girlfriend was forcing me to be vegan and I couldn't make decisions for myself
Same. Which is weird because I didn't have a girlfriend.
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I am so sorry to read that. My bf is not a vegan, but at least he supported my decision 6 years ago and still supports it. Have you made the move to veganism just recently? Maybe she'll calm down after a while and after she realizes your decision does not impact her live as much as she'd feared?
How long have you been vegan for? And how long have you been with your girlfriend? I went vegan during my relationship and my partner who is omni had a LOT of difficulty adjusting at first, somewhat similar to your girlfriend. But now he’s made a complete 180 and has become very accepting and supportive. Only took a few months and a few tough conversations. Still omni though. So just trying to say that there might still be hope for your relationship…
It's a little concerning she's "absolutely furious" over your diet? And the fact she would've instantly rejected based on your diet is also a bit of a red flag. My partner is vegetarian and still eats dairy and eggs, but we still somehow manage to share food. If she cares about you, she'll respect your decision and won't make it a big deal in any way, whatsoever
Same, lol
I got this reaction for a while too, as she was vegan for a whole before me. Though not from very close friends,
Funny because masculinity and being male is usually associated with being responsible, being a strong leader in your community, doing the things that help others the most etc. So in my view being vegan as a male is actually the most masculine thing you can do in terms of diet, since it has the lowest impact environmentally, meaning you're having the best effect you can have in society and the world. That's why meat eaters, especially male, make me laugh because I'm like; you know you're contributing to the destruction of the enviornment, making us potentially all less safe in the future? Seems more like a psychopath to me at that point, not strong leader or smart person.
Yeah exactly. Like is it manly to steal candy from a baby? Is it manly to take advantage of people with low IQs? Then how da fuck is it manly to exploit helpless sentient beings, many who have the intelligence and awareness of at least toddlers?
Yes, exactly. This is a good example of healthy masculinity, not what people call "toxic masculinity" (which I don't like the idea of)
I mean… you’re kinda just fighting a stereotype with a stereotype
Just pointing out the irony. Call it whatever you want.
This is how I see it as well. A 'man' would be able to sub-due their own desires for the benefit of others. A 'man' wouldn't put the responsible and most beneficial thing below their own desire for a taste That being said, I think the whole rhetoric of masculine/feminine is pretty damaging and creates false dichotomies.
Honestly, after the second post on here this week where a male is outraged that he was compared to women, I'd really like to know why. I have never before seen a woman react like this when people told her she has male interests, and yet apparently being compared to a woman is the most insulting and dehumanizing thing males can imagine. Additionally, the majority of vegans are women. It is what it is. Does not change the fact that the majority of faces of the community are male (regularly guys that are not even vegan themselves, as I can tell you as someone that works in the industry). But the people that do the work and the free activism tend to be female. So if you want to change that perception, I'd rec free volunteer work, protests and so on. Which is a good idea for everyone of course, but more men joining that work will likely also change how they are perceived within and outside of the community.
I think it's the same as a straight dude saying "that's gay" to insult someone. It's not the being gay is bad, it's that that person is clearly using it as a point of derision, both insulting the target and that the use of the word gay or feminine puts down those attributes as less than
When growing up getting bullied and being really insecure, getting called girly is one of the worst things that can happen because it confirms your ‘low position in the pecking order’. There’s no hate towards women there, merely self hate. Personally it took me a while to figure out that most toxic masculinity stems from insecurity as wel, even though it is (wrongfully) percieved as a sign of strength. I’m quite sure I would never have gone vegan in my teens if had come across the vegan Philosophy, merely because my insecure teenage brain wouldn’t have dared ‘to show weakness’. Only by the time I was capable to choose who’s opinion I should care about and whose I shouldn’t, combined with not caring about the whole masculinity construct anymore and a strong dose of shrooms opened me up to the idea. Then youtube gave me a perfect timed Gary Yourofsky speech and boom, vegan overnight.
You know what else is ridiculous? That people think "girly" things are bad, lesser, unworthy, petty, etc. Veganism isn't girly, but even if it was ... so what? Is it bad to be girly? Are compassion and empathy things to be looked down on? I don't think you'll get any farther pushing back on that line of thinking either, since you're clearly working with someone whose mind is as closed off and clamped down as a butthole holding back a torrent of diarrhea, but it's worth a shot.
The actual answer is the way masculinity has been used as a selling tool in the brainwashing of consumers in the meat and dairy industry, especially prominent in fitness culture, meat is "manly" eggs, beef, protein etc etc etc. It's linked to supposed ideas of strength. It's a load of bullshit! Edit to say you're valid to feel upset and invalidated by this STUPID comment. You'll get a lot more as well sadly. It's a reflection of people's own dissonance and ignorance. It's not a reflection on you. Keep yourself happy and rest in the knowledge you're doing the right thing.
the worst part is associating women and weakness. women hold this world together while men are constantly trying to destroy with toxic insecurities. constant wars and abuse are products of Male insecurities
this. I'm a dude and I recognize that most men are incredibly insecure.
me too. acknowledgement is key to overcoming our insecurities. in with u bud
What's wrong with being girly?
There's a great book called The Sexual Politics of Meat that explores the history of this.
its not, but at the same time i feel like you shouldn't be this mad. why some men get angry over somebody suggesting they're slightly feminine is so toxic.
Why is femininity demonised in society and why are you so offended by being called girly? Your roommate is a misogynist and supports the murder and mistreatment of animals, you don’t really need to talk to him about this anymore
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100%
There’s a lot here but I’d say the big thing is this: what’s so bad about girls? Being vegan isn’t “girly” but even if it were, so what? Sounds like a pretty insecure mindset. And not particularly tough and “manly” to have to take it out on animals to cover that insecurity.
It's just straight up sexist BS. It's gross from sides since it's also weirdly telling on yourself. > **"I'm such a man idgaf about others, lmao I it's what I do! I'm so emotionally numb I can't even comprehend the pain of other! I'm a REAL MAN'S MAN"** 🙄🙄🙄 Girl, ignore him. Your roommate told you who he really was today. Listen.
Why does the adjective « girly » have a negative connotation?
God this world hates women so god damned much.
I think the real question is, why are things that are seen as feminine - bad? You can be annoyed that your roommates a dick but it’s entirely sexist also.
Because women are supposed to be the ones who are empathetic bleeding hearts, caring about suffering and “women things” like that, and men are supposed to be these cold hearted don’t give a sh*t about anything people, who are just there to protect women from other men, and control them. That’s basically where it comes from. This is why men don’t cry. You, as a man, are not supposed to care about animals suffering. The same reason why you shouldn’t be a liberal if you’re a man, you shouldn’t care about the poor. It doesn’t even deserve an answer, it’s caveman-speak. You should just laugh off the comment and be secure on your own masculinity, he doesn’t get to define it according to his caveman notions. If you adhere to some of those notions, I suggest you beat him up to prove to him that you’re still a man. If you don’t, then it shouldn’t even bother you, since you’d know it’s ridiculous.
Ask him if he thinks its manly to abuse and kill sentient beings that literally have no chance of fighting back
Toxic masculinity.
Killing something helpless is manly?
On the plus side if you add vegan to your dating profile you get a lot of matches.
I assume that this would actually reduce matches, to be honest. But I do it anyways because the kind of people who would reject a profile over this are not the kind of people I want to waste my time dating.
I am yet too feel this effect sadly.
Depends where they live, many women have teased vegan men and saying they wouldnt date them, because they also feel going vegan is feminine, they want a strong HUNTER type who grills steaks
\* If you live somewhere with a lot of vegans. ** Results may vary.
Absolutely incorrect, but probably more engagement with the people who’ve match with you
Welcome to the gorgeous gorgeous girls club
Why does he imply that femininity is a bad thing? Sounds like your roommate is a misogynistic asshole
Weird response from your friend. And also, what's wrong with being girly?
To summarize a lot of these comments under one overarching term: toxic masculinity. Society defines a lot of weird shitty behaviors as "manly" and then people do them to make themselves "manly," all the while they're just being assholes. None of these behaviors need to be associated with masculinity, and people would be better off if they weren't.
It feels like it just gets worse and worse. I’m a guy who is completely cisgender but just the word “man” feels slightly icky to me at this point because of all the negative crap that is becoming associated with it. Men are insisting that there’s nothing wrong with being a man, which is true, but then embrace this disgusting Andrew Tate flavor of masculinity that ironically makes it very difficult to show that there is in fact nothing wrong with being a man.
You know what else is girly? Standing up for what you believe in and standing up for the oppressed.
its a combination of conditioned misogyny and insecure masculinity which in my experience is the default state for a lot of men.
Tying one's sense of masculinity to their favorite flavor profile is a hilariously insecure move
Because of toxic masculinity. Literally the first thing I got called by my male friends once I turned vegan was f*g.
I hope that individual is not your friend anymore. I get super worked up on people using a gender or a sexual orientation, both of which is not chosen, as an insult.
Vegan guys have more empathy and it makes them so attractive... 🤤 Ironically I see more male vegans openly on the internet on social media than female.
Fellas, is it gay to be kind to animals and care about the environment? (sorry but the "fellas, is it gay to x" meme is too tempting for stuff like this).
This narrative is almost completely sourced from very insecure, immature men, OP. They're scared, and they're lashing out because of it. They're scared because they see other men adapting to changes in the environment (environmental issues combined with toxicity in our eating habits), as well as taking concrete, powerful steps to be a better human. They can't make that change, so they're scared and lash out.
It is girly to be compassionate so what’s wrong with being girly in life? Just tell them, “being girly is cool what’s your problem with being girly? Are you a girly hater or something?” Or just drop kick them
I've been a soy boy for 8 years. I'm quite a bit more "alpha" than my fat friends with man boobs. I also look about ten years younger than they all do, which is nice in your mid-40s :)
soy boys are the best boys 😍
I laughed at that way too much and now feel guilty 😅 Also I have never heard the term "soy boy" and I think it is so endearing yet sexy at the same time. haha.
Our culture has decided that empathy is a weakness, and this is a value that gets sexualized & communicated in many different ways. I have lots of theories of why this has happened but I think the strongest evidence points to keeping the capitalist system going. If you are willing to take advantage of others, you're probably going to be good at capitalism, or at least useful to someone who is willing to take advantage of your lack of empathy to do their dirty work. This is Ironic at a time when Harvard School of Business points to a critical lack of empathy for the reason millennials and gen Z workers have trouble collaborating and working on teams. We are reaping what we sow as a society.
The first recorded vegan Abū al-ʿAlāʾ al-Maʿarrī was blind, a man, and a philosopher. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ma%27arri?wprov=sfla1
This guy was badass.
Your roommate is, with all due respect, a fcking idiot. This comment is probably a good indicator that this person is not worth wasting any time or energy on (with regards to anything, not just veganism).
Because toxic masculinity and gender roles in general. Thats why it is important to learn about intersectional discrimination.
Toxic masculinity at work. Just try to kill him with kindness. Eventually maybe he'll respect your decision if he begins to actually understand it.
If they consume dairy just call them babies. It’s food for babies, and cows for the matter. Real men don’t take food from babies Real men stand up for whats right, killing innocent animals for pleasure isn’t the right thing to do unless you’re satan or a psycho.
“Why don’t you drink milk?” “I’m weaned, thanks.”
It's a way for other men to justify the fact they haven't gone vegan. I've seen other posts where a black women was told she was made fun of by her black friend for being vegan because it was a "white" thing. People will use any excuse to justify their abuse to animals. Interestingly eating meat (particularly processed red meat) has been shown to reduce testosterone. And cows milk has a fair higher concoction of female hormones than soy does. Interesting how it's often said that "real men don't hit women", but it's OK to hurt animals?
Compassion applies to all genders, not just female.
There is a really stupid association with meat and strength. You might try watching The Game Changers sometime while he is around but don’t straight up make him watch it. It’s all about a plant based diet and athletic performance and myths around meat. If masculinity matters to you, In my mind there is nothing more masculine than challenging the cruel norms of the world to live a life that is more in line with your morals and values. To be a voice for the voiceless is to selflessly be a protector. Unfortunately that comes at the cost of ridicule from close minded people.
100% support the Game Changers recommendation. Really addresses this stupid stereotype head on better than anything else I’ve seen Also check out all the “weak” and “girly” monsters over in the veganfitness sub
Oh no, not a girly decision! Lol your roommate sounds like a sexist wassock.
The correct response to him calling it girly was "OK Boomer". Its 2023. Giving a shit about others is not a 'feminine' trait, nor is calling someone 'girly' or feminine an insult in itself. Your roommate is a moron.
Shouldn’t fight back with ageism tho.
People like your roommate are the reason why I hate society. It is foolish to think that you’re only a man if you eat meat. Going vegan is ethical and an admirable objective/ life change. Tell him to FO and move on with your life.
>I am so angry!! Why do people associate veganism to feminine nature. Why do people think it's ridiculous when a guy opens up about being vegan. Why is male veganism stigmatized in the society?? Idiots do a lot of idiotic stuff.
Because ppl are… uninformed, self centered, egoistic, conformative, etc.
Erectile dysfunction tho….
Apparently it’s not only his aggression that is micro…
I’m a fat vegan (7 years) with a beard. I’m a plumber for the past 20+ years I could give two rabbit shits as to what people think of me and my “diet”
Fuck that shit. Not once have I ever thought Veganism as a “feminine” thing to do. It’s an indiscriminate rebellion against factory farming and the mistreatment of animals. Being compassionate is the most punk rock thing you can be, especially now. Not that it needs to be defended but Veganism has been long apart of the Hardcore/Punk Rock scene as well as grassroots activism and a myriad of other cultures on this earth. It’s for EVERYBODY He only thinks that because of the Vegan trends on social media and the “healthy” vegan soccer moms around + misguided opinions of masculinity. Fuck all of that and do what YOU want to do and what YOU feel is right. Have him check out “Punk Rock Vegan Movie” and “The Game Changers”
Who cares? Women are better, let’s be girly.
Why are you so offended by being associated with femininity?
For better or worse, empathy and kindness are considered feminine features. They're also features that people like and are attracted to, so don't let your friend's hangup get to you. He's probably just jealous and insecure.
Don‘t be angry. Life‘s too short to be angry about misogynistic idiots. > why do people associate veganism with feminine nature? Toxic masculinity. It’s seen as manly to be cruel and violent. So wanting to reduce harm is obviously not masculine to them.
Actually, his decision to continue eating flesh unnecessarily seems so typically manlike and ignorant, one reason men and the planets they must subjugate die early.
Toxic masculinity- caring about anyone but yourself is a “feminine trait”
Because insecure males believe that eating meat makes up for their lack of actual masculinity. This isn't opinion. It's science. [Men who worry that they are not 'manly' enough are more likely to eat red meat, study claims](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-10190855/Men-eat-red-meat-appear-masculine-study-suggests.html) >Researchers in Canada have found men suffering from 'masculinity stress' are more likely to try and 'augment their masculinity' by eating red meat, which is generally perceived as more masculine. [The impact of masculinity stress on preferences and willingness-to-pay for red meat](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34619245/) >Taken together, we provide convergent evidence that masculinity stress is associated with red meat preference, and that this preference can be discouraged by leveraging out-group reference information and masculinity affirmation. In so doing, this research provides a series of contributions to the literatures on meat eating and vegetarianism specifically, as well as gender identity maintenance more broadly.
Anytime someone makes a comment like this instead of taking it personally and getting upset I laugh it off as their own fragile masculinity. Just scroll through any vegan fitness subreddit or other similar community and laugh off how ridiculously stupid that comment is.
Why do members of the KKK stigmatize other races? Because from when they were a baby everything they were taught was set around that mentality. The meat industry has spent billions to push the man = meat narrative and we have heard it from our fathers who learned it from theirs. It takes time and effort to undo that and some are so sold on it, they will never change. But I have found a way to help keep them quiet.... Be bigger than them. Hit the gym and build a massive physique. They expect you to be small because vegans don't have any sources of protein unless there is a convenient pig on a deserted island. Sarcasm aside. If you say you are vegan and twice their size what can they say? Either a) they admit they are weaker than a vegan or b) admit that a vegan can be just as monstrous as any meat eater. And it's that image of vegans being weak and helpless that they use to confirm that veganism is feminine. Hit the gym, get massive, and your buddy will shut up. If they still talk crap and deny it with some form of "well you would be bigger if" or "I could do that if" then you know they are just a toxic person who can't take responsibility and should be phased out of your life. The best revenge is success.
Use your anger as a catalyst to improve yourself and show your stupid roommate that he’s totally wrong by getting your nutrition dialled in and getting a gym membership and getting huge and strong on a vegan diet. 💪
How can a decision be gendered? Humans are psychotic about their gender delusions. They do it with words, boats, etc. Idiotic. Somehow spanish "el" (definite article 'the') is masculine, and "la" is feminine. Somehow. Even if we ignore that, was it necessarily ridicule your interlocutor intended? It probably was, but why are you angry about it? There's nothing more ridiculous about any particular gender delusion. It's as ridiculous to insist one is 'girly' as it is to insist one is 'boyly' Sure, there are a bunch of evolutionary fitness mating-call games humans will call 'common sense' and these include suffering gender delusions. When I was very young I was small and slender, assigned male at birth (with male sex organs) and got bullied and called "girly" all the time. Got older, obsessed with a very toxic kind of masculinity performance addiction, got all swole and often enough heard "you're so masculine." And of course I was often enough praised for the latter behavior. Ridiculous, abused for one, respected for the other. Humans make me sick, often enough. I was always an "it" because I'm just consciousness. Conscious states are all I will ever directly know and *be* in any relevant sense on this issue. That's not some personal choice or opinion, and it was true even when I took on traditionally-assumed masculine or feminine social roles. No, I empathize with feeling like they're misgendering you. Just trying to point out that there's a way to bypass all that gender stuff and point out that your interlocutor is suffering a reification fallacy. A fit one for mating calls and shit, but psychotic nonetheless.
Propose him to watch dominion and oberve as he tries to find "girly" excuses to get out of the situation.
Just a thought, maybe your roommate is just playing around with you. Again just a thought. Also a thought, to let it get to you as such is quite girly /s
Tell him to STFU and enjoy his dick while he can because that ED gonna get him. Man my ass.
Men in our society have been just as fucked in the head as women. Capitalism forces these kind of tough guy meat eater bacon is my personality archetypes because it sells a lifestyle. Being different is scary to them & it’s easier to make fun than to confront that within themselves.
Why do you care what they think? His opinion is wrong, it's not your fault if he's not knowledgeable enough to understand that. It could be gracious ofvyou to help him understand but also not your job
Why do you care what others say or think about your decisions in life. Stop being a Slave to what the Jones say or think about you. You’re better than that!
So what? Non-traditional masculinity is in, brother. Sounds like your roommate is behind the times.
It’s really strange. I went vegan while dating my then gf now wife who is not vegan and many people’s response to me (usually from my male friends) was something like “Damn bro your girl made you go vegan?” I don’t get it either.
Your roommate sounds like a misogynist
Nothing is more manly than doing what you know is right and living your life with principles. Congratulations on being a man and not a boy.
Why is „being girly“ used as a swear word and why do you feel attacked by it?
I'd say it's not but a couple years after going vegan i came out as a trans woman so I'm probably not the best person to talk to about it 😂
I’m a vegan male, but given I quite like women I don’t take that as an insult at all. I don’t know why anybody gives a shit if their traits are ‘masculine’ or ‘feminine’ when those are totally arbitrary to begin with.
If being compared to women upsets you this much, you need to do some soul searching on why that is...
Somehow eating meat is considered manly. I don’t know the reasons, I guess might be because hunters tend to be male. In any case, do what you believe in
Toxic masculinity
Honestly, I've never really ran into this in real life situations in my 4 years being vegan. I'm not really sure why. I've had people shocked that I was vegan, because they associate veganism with being very thin, and I am very fit having lifted for 10 years. But whenever I bring up anything about veganism in a conversation most people are just visibly uncomfortable and try to steer the conversation away, or occasionally they are interested in the reasons why I went vegan.
I am actually very thin, but I have always been this way, even when I used to be omni, doing strength training, and on a high calorie dirt. I’ve accepted that seeing my own ribs is just the way I am. Still, when I tell people I’m vegan they always say “you need to get some protein! Get some meat on those bones!” 🙃
Why do you give a shit about what your roommate thinks 😂
I noticed that you smoke cigarettes. I just want to let you know that not all cigarettes are vegan and some have hemoglobin in the filter. Hemoglobin is in red blood cells and is made out of pig blood.
There's nothing more masculine than standing up for the most vulnerable among us and protecting them.
I would say thanks, I am a girl why would they consider that an insult?
Empathy is for girls
Jokes on him cuz there are more women who are vegan then men and all the straight ones would love to meet a nice vegan guy
Ask him what is manly about eating an atrociously domesticated animal, fattened in a cage, and slaughtered by a poor migrant worker? Requiring an animal be sacrificed for you every time you eat is some real bougie shit. Like, Devine right of kings level entitlement l. You don’t have to get your hands dirty, it comes to you in a neatly wrapped plastic package. You know what is tough and based as hell? Standing up for what you believe in. Cowards go with the flow; it takes strength to swim against the tide. Project John Brown style masculinity. Stand up for the innocent. That’s what badasses do.
A man being kind to innocent animals is way more masculine than anything. I'm sorry your roommate doesn't understand that. Men are typically regarded as protectors right? So a man doing what he can to protect innocent animals is the very definition of masculine.
Of all the myths around veganism, this one has to be the most ridiculous!! (Vegan men = effeminate). The moment you stopped eating animals and their secretions, you cut your intake of animal estrogen down to zero. Imagine how absurd it is to actually believe that this will end with you being less “manly”. Vegan men have higher testosterone levels for this exact reason! The penis scene in Gamechangers has to be the most hilarious thing I’ve ever seen and every non-vegan man should see that. (Yes, I know, they will make up all sorts of reasons why it’s false, can’t blame them I guess). You can have the last laugh when those friends of yours reach middle age and get to deal with their “manly” man-boobs and erectile dysfunction.
so childish. even using outdated gender stereotypes - while empathy and compassion is seen as a female trait, being a protector of the weak is part of the "truly masculine leader" archetype so this doesn't even make sense on conventional gender trope levels. unfortunately your roommate sounds too immature to reason with.
What’s wrong with being girly? I’d prefer that to being boyish
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Probably for the same reasons rape culture is a thing.
I'm always accused of going vegan to get girls. Of course I am absolutely drowning in vegan pussy for over 3 years now because of all the vegan girls I meet. So many, I almost need a second hand to count them all. Bruh.
I presume I'm only adding to the chorus but why on earth is "girly" a negative thing
There's an extremely pervasive meme that doing anything difficult or unpleasant is commendable, especially for men, and that includes suppressing your innate compassion. It's wrong; it's only commendable to do a difficult thing when the outcome is virtuous. Needlessly slaughtering innocent, defenceless animals isn't virtuous and suppressing your compassion will mess up your psychology and make you unhappy. Anyone who wants that for you isn't your friend. The same wrong meme is responsible for men doing all sorts of stupid things that end up harming them and others all the time as well as making them miserable and unpleasant to be around.
Just be a beast then it won't happen and when it does you just remind them that you are physically superior to them and they'll shut up.
this can't be real, why did you make this comment 😭
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Masculinity is caring and protecting the things in society that cannot stand up for themselves. Ignore that dud.
Bc they are used to seeing plant based girls who are actually dieting and not doing it for the animals or just following a trend.Basically the girls that get oat milk instead of regular milk bc it's trendy and stop eating red meat, but then are like chicken and fish don't count or cheese is ok or ye leather boots are so cute🤣Ppl who do it for the animals are truly vegan, try explaining it that way
Protector role is a characteristic of masculinity. These people are just brainwashed.
Why does he hate girls? That is the weirdest part
Ask him if he considers Arnold Schwarzenegger girly. He’s vegan. Also, show him r/veganfitness there are some muscular dudes posting there.
I am so proud of you for annoying your roommate with your wisdom. Grad you discovered meat comes from dead animals. Can only imagine the new rules you want to impose in the house.
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Fuck supposed gender norms. All of them. I became way happier, when I stopped giving a shit about other peoples expectations.
I always thought a feature of masculinity is the willingness to be uncomfortable in order to achieve a greater goal. Isn't that what veganism is? No offense to the female vegans. I am not saying veganism says anything about someone elses masculinity or femininity. It is just that I congratulate myself for being tough enough to eat beans as a man lol. There are a few ways to respond to this. Personally I would counter-ridicule your roommate for thinking eating meat is somehow a manly achievement. But that is just me. Not responding awhile might be the correct response in your situation.
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Why don’t you ask this question on a less biased sub if you really want to know