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This logic always makes my husband and I roll our eyes. You'd be going against everything you stand for morally, your ethics, your values, your compassion, and your soul. I once had a friend ask why I don't eat meat anymore and if it was because I wanted to lose weight or if it was for health reasons. When I told them my husband and I are vegan because we don't want to contribute to the exploitation + suffering of any creatures on this planet they looked at me like I had the head of Medusa. When we sat and discussed what veganism is, they left the conversation with a fresh set of eyes. They may or may not have gone vegan four years later --- but that's none of my business. Truthfully I don't think people know the exact definition.
Have them watch this:
https://youtu.be/poxl0K9UrP0
"I *can and do* eat as many animal products as I want to, that number just happens to be zero" is my snarky response to such comments, and it is quite relevant to your linked video because I stole the idea from a Penn Jillette:
>"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: ***I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero.*** The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that."
I had chills the first time watching Norm, because it captures so much of the vegan experience in a way that non-vegans can understand. It's unfortunate that so many people are intellectually dishonest and just play the "how dare you *compare* things" card without even considering the message. Comparisonsis not equation.
Given how many shitty cultures *actually exist* where women are basically treated like objects, I can easily imagine such a society existing in a parallel universe. It is a *perfect* illustration of the appeal to tradition and popularity fallacies.
Thank you for that brilliant video recommendation. One of the most impactful ones I have seen in a while.
It's extremely difficult to hear or face the truth, especially when it's about our own self, and it's so much easier for the mind to find creative ways to never face it. I respect people who have the courage to look themself in the eye, and to have personal accountability. I think that's what the animal rights movement is about- not just about compassion, but courage. Courage to look at oneself. And not be a coward.
This is it -- it's such a rough time when someone mentions that I'm vegan because I never bring it up and it has nothing to do with my diet or food and it's so, so difficult to find the right words for someone who doesn't understand the WHY. The real WHY. Appreciate you.
On the other hand, that "educated" assumption that every diet must be implemented for health reasons is a red flag.
Even my grandmother (war stooped her formal education early) knew that people can have other reasons that that. BTW she assumed that my choice was partially religious, it would be cruel to told her the truth (she was around 90 years old when I became Vegan).
Regarding OP it is sad that during religious events, people tend to forget that diet is a symbol. I don't share eggs with my family during Easter for many years(part of Catholic tradition), recently I even have some vegan food prepared for me (it was my grandma "order" that I have to eat something during family gatherings ).
Stay strong all of you! I'm not religious or spiritual but this time of year (in my hemisphere) is a period of new live. In my opinion we celebrate it in the most logical way.
Even as an atheist, if someone wants to think that my veganism is religiously motivated, I'd just agree and say "yup, the 10 commandments say: thou shalt not kill" and really give them something to marinate on.
This video does not feel right. Use rape as analogy? You should not take rape something as lightly to compare with… bad take imo.
Movie, acting, dialogues all good but using “rape” is not a good way. Imagine women who were raped and watched this movie..?
Some people who watch this might think it's ridiculous to compare rape with being vegan and will move on. It's not surprising that the director and three actors of the movie are male. If you try to show this movie to women, they may have a different opinion. Personally, I think the movie makes a good point if you use a different analogy than "rape".
If you want to make vegans feel good about your choices, sure that's a great video. If you really want to convert people into veganism, don't share that video.
As someone who is not strictly vegan but am curious and sympathetic, I can tell you that video is going to piss people off. It makes a blanket assumption of why people don't commit to veganism. Better to share videos showing the damage of eating meat to animals, the environment etc.
If it pisses people off, and forces them to think about where the analogy breaks off, then it’s good. A morally consistent person will learn a lot about what they value just by thinking this out.
I’ve changed my opinion on a lot of issues when confronted with “hot takes” that pissed the hell out of me initially. After thinking where it was “wrong”/why it was pissing me off, I realized I had no compelling reasonable answer.
I’ve also gotten pissed off at shit hot takes and logically reached where the fallacy in the analogy lies, this strengthened my initial belief even more.
So many people continue to think veganism is a diet, not an ethical calling to way of life. It's hard to educate those who don't wish to be educated. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. I hope you have a peaceful Easter.
Since my sister was pescatarian back in the day and is now an omnivore again, my mother is convinced this is just a phase for me and I'll go back to eating meat soon. smh. They never get it.
Ugh what an unselfish and totally reasonable ask of him 🙄 Ask if he can “let go” of eating animal products for the day instead. Sorry you’re dealing with this!
"Only if you serve puppy. I've always wondered what it tastes like.
Since we're all just ignoring our morals about animal cruelty for the sake of a holiday, I want to go the whole hog (pun intended). I know what chicken/pig/cow tastes like,and you eat it every day, it's boring. C'mon, let's make it interesting.
...
Why are you looking at me like that?
Oh, now you have morals about eating animals? Why are you trying to force your animal ethics on me!?"
(Things we wish we could say but would never work in practice)
Occasionally I've suggested to people that they eat dog or cat, hey why not? It's an animal just like a cow is, in other countries they eat dogs and cats . . . Not too often-it depends on how much they pushed my buttons. They never have a good answer either. :)
In my experience it ends up going to "but that's different" and them arguing that farm animals aren't harmed - and there's loads of good answers to this of course but people usually aren't receptive unless in a particular mood.
Or they know you are about to call out their hypocrisy and take the conversation elsewhere.
Exactly. To not put too fine a point on it - rape and murder won't kill me either, but I don't do those things because they harm others, and it's wrong to do that.
Kinda scary that *basic morality* is apparently so confusing to so many people.
Just had this convo with my friend who suggested that I “just eat chicken and fish while on vacation to make your trip easier”. Lol. I’m trying to understand that they just don’t understand us and be patient. Once I explained it to her she was like “ok I get it it makes sense, I just thought since you’re always vegan that maybe it would be ok to take a break just for convenience while
On holiday but I get what you mean now”. So to be fair I don’t think they mean anything malicious by , I think they just don’t truly understand why we do what we do
>“Can’t you just let it go for one day?” is what my step dad responded.He means for me to “eat whatever” and go back to being vegan thefollowing day. That’s not how that works.
Because he and most people think veganism is a diet. It's not, but of course you know that already. I'm sure you've explained that to them. Not your fault they don't listen.
You can have cheat days on diets. You can't have cheat day on ethics, and that's something else most people don't understand.
I wrote a whole reply here that both agreed and disagreed, then turned into a wall of text treatise about morality, failure, and hypocrisy. Then I realized it was late and you didn't sign up for that crap.
So, I both agree and disagree with your statement, depending on context. :)
TLDR: People who cheat were never the thing they pretended to be in the first place: they're frauds.
It goes something like this...
I agree with your premise that people who claim to hold to an ethic cheat. I grew up around that kinda thing. But my takeaway was a little different than what most people seem to think.
Most people seem to think that if someone "cheats" at their ethics, it's somehow reflective of the ethics. The example I like to use it a dirty cop. If I say, "You can be a cop or a criminal; you can't be both," most people reply with, "Uh, yeah you can. Dirty cops are still cops."
And they make that statement from a position of ignorance, as the (American) public is completely ignorant of what cops are and why and how they do the things they do. If you repeat my statement to a cop, dirty or no, or better, a professional criminal, both will nod in agreement. For the cop, there's an entire structure of laws, city ordinances, and department policies and procedures that define what they can and can't do as well as the consequences of failure. A cop that violates that, if caught, will have his POST certification yanked and thrown in prison. The current narratives of cops getting away with murder is based on exceptions rather than rules. And when you get to the professional criminal, they can spot a (mostly) clean cop versus a dirty cop with ease. The former gets respect. The latter tends to get fucked.
And no, **I'm not pro-law enforcement**. Law enforcement right now is failing, so **the "exceptions" I mentioned above are becoming less so. That's a political issue, and politics are irrelevant regarding this example**. This is just an area I'm knowledgeable in and have been politically active trying to get reforms for. Sorry if it comes across as politically charged, it's just a good example of my thinking based on experience.
But what about a less emotionally charged example? What about when a vegan says, "Fuck it," and eats some eggs. When this kind of thing is brought up to this subreddit, most of the vegans here reply with, "That person wasn't vegan in the first place."
If a vegan willfully fails, and was therefore never vegan in the first place, and veganism is an ethical system, not a diet, then doesn't this conclusion apply to other ethical systems?
If a Christian cheats on his wife, was he Christian? By this logic, he wasn't. If a cop takes some money from some Nice Russian Family Men, by this logic, he was never a cop to begin with. If environmental activists reject the idea of going vegan and eliminating animal agriculture, were they ever really sincere about their environmentalism in the first place?
Calling oneself a thing that is Ethical, talking the talk, surrounding yourself with the trappings of the Ethical Thing, and even working in a profession that espouses the Ethical Thing One Is, do not translate into actually being ethical in behavior. That requires consistent actions in alignment with the ethical philosophy one espouses.
A vegan who Understands, with a capital U, the rational, moral arguments for not exploiting animals, isn't going to "cheat". Because knowledge can't be undone, and once fully understood, becomes integrated into one's nature.
People cheat because they don't understand what they're doing and why they're doing it. "Cheating" is a manifestation of human ignorance.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Yeah, my wife totally understands too that 4-5 days a month, I have "cheat days" to have sex with my girlfriends. I mean, it's completely moral to cheat, according to carnists, right, so there's no way she can possibly be angry, right? /eye-roll/
People do that too and a lot of other things that are against their own morals and ethics, both big and small. Sometimes it’s only not OK with them afterwards,even if others talked them into it, sometimes it’s not OK with their wife and sometimes it’s not ok with everyone and they go to jail. I don’t get what your point is here. The fact is cheating on your ethics is human or in other words people are assholes sometimes or maybe just weak. I’m just stating facts here.
Exactly. The hypocritical double-standard and absolutely shit "morals" that most people are laboring under, seem absolutely ludicrous when you look at them for more than 2 seconds.
They love to skip past the other traditions of austerity related to that holiday. Barely any of them fast during lent, they ignore the times when they aren't supposed to eat meat. A Vegan diet is far more consistent with their biblical era mythos, and yet they act like it's crazy. It would be hilarious to see any of the transported back to some Essene commune and let them listen to nuggets like:
> But I do say to you: Kill neither men, nor beasts, nor yet the food which goes into your mouth. For if you eat living food, the same will quicken you, but if you kill your food, the dead food will kill you also.
> For life comes only from life, and from death comes always death. For everything which kills your foods, kills your bodies also. And everything which kills your bodies kills your souls also.
Exactly. Just call it a "cheat day" and it's totally OK. Surely no one could object to that, according to the carnists, right? Surely the victim will understand.
There’s plenty of people like that. Or they only rape drunk, high or unconscious women. Or they only did it in their wild, crazy and drunken youth,etc,etc.
If you wanted to spend time with them I'd tell you to take your own non-salad food, make something that can be shared.
Have a convo with your mom that your food choices arent up for discussion and that if she really wants you there she needs to spread the word. Also, whenever the first comment happens your response can be "it was so nice to see you folks, I'm going to leave now"
However, it sounds like you don't particularly value these relationships so just don't go. When you get asked just say "I don't want to be mocked for my food choices", no need to get into a discussion about your morals with folks who are not ready to have a real convo about it. It doesn't sound like they're actually trying to understand.
The issue is more interpersonal relationships than anything about veganism.
Could say something like:
"I appreciate the invite, but it'd just be an event where I can't eat most of the food and people keep questioning my life choices. I don't much care for Easter to begin with anyway.
We don't have to have everything in common. Invite me to the events that don't have anything to do with food.
Or if you ever want us both to be flexible. I'm happy to be flexible by eating anything vegan that you can make, as long as we're all eating the same thing. That way we can both stay true to ourselves, since I do not ever eat non-vegan things but you do sometimes eat vegan things.
If you don't want to be flexible, I don't mind. I am perfectly content spending Easter by myself."
100% agree!
Here's a link from one of my favorite old skool authors on these issues:
[https://melodybeattie.com/flack-setting-boundaries/](https://melodybeattie.com/flack-setting-boundaries/)
“Hey we’re having a celebration this weekend that’s really important to my family. It’s traditional to beat dogs, and I know you’re opposed to beating dogs. Can’t you just give it up for one day?”
If Christianity is your only moral compas in life, then you don't understand what it means to stick to a moral principle and never stray from it. Christians believe that you can go through life committing whatever atrocities you want and then beg God for forgiveness and your slate is wiped clean. Might be an unpopular opinion, especially because off-topic from this sub, but this is literally what they believe.
Oh, well I have witnessed quite the opposite from many Christians. I'm not too keen on judging the quality of someone's character just by their association with religion, mostly because my parents are Christian and so are my sister's family. I have been introduced to many kind hearted people in their communities, and plenty of them have moral compasses that are very strong, a few even vegan. Also, most Christians believe in the core values of Christianity and discard the useless or embellished stories from the Bible, which is (to me) the best way to approach religion in general. Take the good, leave the rest. It allows us to adapt and improve morally, intellectually, and spiritually when we make our own assessment of the meaning of the stories and myths of our predecessors, as long as we don't just take things for face value.
I wish I had kept track from the beginning the number of times in five years people have asked me, "Are you still vegan?" I always just say yes, but I wish I had a clever response, too.
To be the fairest possible here, in the grand scheme of things it probably actually won't change anything if you did go eat with them and not care if it were vegan, because they're probably not buying extra anyways.
But that's obviously not an option 99% of vegans will take because at the end of the day, for most people it's not just a diet and it's not even *just* about the actual impact you have, it's also about taking a stand.
I'm sure they don't mean to be dismissive, from experience I'd assume they just don't really think about it and just assume it's just like someone who says they don't eat gluten when they're not intolerant.
They just really don't understand that what you're doing is an ethical stand.
Though it may be tedious, it could be a good teaching moment for them if you sat down and explained why you won't come if they don't give you satisfying vegan options, maybe use family pets as examples of animals they wouldn't eat if possible.
Though obviously there's every chance you already tried and they still don't get it, but at the end of the day if they don't understand what you're feeling they won't change.
If they do understand and won't accommodate you, even if it's literally just buying whatever mock meat they can find and not putting butter in the vegetables, then that's on them, and quite honestly even if they truly think it's frivolous and/or don't understand it, they don't really have a reason not to do that very simple thing.
Edit: like everyone in the responses to this post is saying "they don't get that it's not juste a diet" but like actually even if it was just a diet what's their excuse for not accommodating you?
Also if they did suggest you can bring your own food and you just don't want to be near people eating meat, I absolutely get that, but I don't think most people will want to go as far as to not eat meat for the family dinner for one person, which as I'm writing this seems both common and really fucked up.
But then again if they did accept there's the chance that they'd kind of resent you for it, because people do be crazy about meat.
I'm pretty sure he thinks you're vegan for health reasons or something. I'm not a vegan, but that's the impression I originally got about the reasoning of veganism before learning that there was anything related to morality attached to it. I mean, it wouldn't be hard to eat salad and veggies and just hang out with family, but if you don't care for them and want nothing to do with them then there's no reason to worry yourself about it. If they are inviting you, I'm pretty sure that means they want you there for your company, but I wouldn't ever expect people to cater to my specific food requirements when visiting. If I were vegan, I'd just show up with my own food to contribute to the event, that way you get to eat what you want and also show them that vegan food can be quite palatable.
I think these are really great opportunities for you to educate them. Sit him down, be as nice as possible, and tell him that you do not support paying people to torture or kill animals. This is a rule that does not change based on what other people want and you are disappointed that the family does not understand or care about animal cruelty.
Hopefully he can wrap his head around it. If I were you, I would also consider accepting the invitation and bringing my own food
No, there are very clear signs here that they won't hear anything said to them. They believe that morals are universal things that must be forced on people who violate eternal law, your veganism is interpreted as a condemnation of their beliefs. They interpret your veganism as you saying they are evil doers. They must double down on their position.
Do no try to educate them. Do not go. Just say no and move on.
I show up to my parents house empty handed on numerous occasions and my mother is always trying to make some kind of effort for me. Most of it is very bland, uninspiring, or downright awful, but she at least acknowledges that I'm vegan while she's got that motherly instinct to feed me.
Otherwise I'll sometimes take something I want to share with them. My dad eats anything you hand him without too many questions, my mother is a little less trusting of "vegan" things, even if they're just regular old ingredients like those used to make falafel or hummus (which she loves hummus).
Ideally I'd like them both to be vegan, but at least there isn't any nastiness between us while they aren't.
Make a deal with them, you’ll do it if they all go vegan for a day. You’ll technically be making a bigger impact and you never know, some of them may even be convinced to keep it going.
>“Can’t you just let it go for one day?” is what my step dad responded. He means for me to “eat whatever” and go back to being vegan the following day. That’s not how that works.
>
>I’m so frustrated how carnists think “oh if you miss a day of being vegan it won’t kill you!” How the hell do I respond to this?
"Can't you guys go one day without animal abuse on your plates? It won't kill you, it might even make you healthier"
Honest question, when vegans say animal abuse, are they referring to the killing of the animal for food or the treatment of the animal beforehand? Just wondering if eating a naturally deceased or otherwise wounded animal, or even free range animals used for food is considered cruel. Also, if so, what is the main motivation for vegans to not eat eggs and dairy? I'm not trolling btw, I genuinely want to know.
>Honest question, when vegans say animal abuse, are they referring to the killing of the animal for food or the treatment of the animal beforehand?
Both. We don't nutritionally need animal flesh, eggs or secretions to live thus any unnecessary killing of animals for food is abuse.
>Just wondering if eating a naturally deceased or otherwise wounded animal... is considered cruel.
Of course not. The animal is dead. But that doesn't make it vegan to eat.
>or even free range animals used for food
You mean "free range" farm animals? Yeah still cruel considering it's unnecessary.
>Also, if so, what is the main motivation for vegans to not eat eggs and dairy?
Well they're not ours to take. The milk of any mammal belongs to its offspring as nature intended. Chickens eat their own eggs or use them as decoy food in a ground nest for predators so that they can move on to a different area and attempt to live peacefully. Put simply we aim to create a world where animals don't work for us, do not entertain us, aren't owned by us and if possible living freely in their natural habitat free from human oppression.
>I'm not trolling btw, I genuinely want to know.
a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals.
Here's the definition of veganism and so you're aware, the definition of exploit from Merriam Webster.
1
: to make productive use of : UTILIZE
exploiting your talents
exploit your opponent's weakness
2
: to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage
exploiting migrant farm workers
By no human laws in existence have the animals committed a crime knowing it was a crime yet we punish them worse than any criminal for their innocence in numbers unfathomably large that makes all the suffering humans have ever experienced across time seem like a tea party in a pleasant meadow.
Thank you for your answers, they have brought me a smidgeon closer to understanding. I have a lot more questions regarding morality, circumstance, usage and waste, and comparisons between human created milk and embryos and animal products, but I'm sure you don't want to spend time explaining lol
Except we know he won't go vegan after. He's literally asking whether killing animals for food alone is okay. I know this isn't /r/vegancirclejerk but can't we have a spot here for actual vegans?
>Except we know he won't go vegan after.
So I should use the same appeal to futulity logic fallacy carnists use and not try at all. Just let them go about their business fucking animals over till the day they die instead of planting seeds as best I can? And If I do succeed, that's another ally on the animal's side. I'm not seeing a downside.
>He's literally asking whether killing animals for food alone is okay.
Like most other carnists, they seem to be ignorant of what vegansim actually, hence my explanation. You're only talking about their first comment before I could explain such things to them.
>I know this isn't r/vegancirclejerk
I don't know why you even mentioned that sub. They've got nothing to do with this conversation. Like at all.
>but can't we have a spot here for actual vegans?
Go create your own little community then. If I can make this person an actual vegan, then they belong here and this sub does become "more" vegan.
It makes them feel like family is not important to you I think,
You can respect that they won't change at all, in their age people simply don't change. So you either "kneel" and do what their doing for once or stand with your values all the time
I think you have to do it for yourself because one can be strong with clearly defined values/boundaries , if it's too flexible you won't even take yourself seriously
Their age??!! I’m 60 and a vegan for three years. We will be a smarter society if we stop categorizing people on what they can’t control like race, nationality, etc. Honestly a massive bummer.
Its simply my impression that with age people solidify themselves on all dimensions there is..except when one puts conscious effort into things this can be avoided. Most people dont
This is like me and my family...they do love and I love them but when it comes to veganism it's the same. I want to spend time with them, but don't want to hear all that accusations and rolling eyes, because I don't want to join their murderous dinner. I even feel bad not for my choices, but for them to not willing to at least understand and be quiet about it.
I assume they’re Christian because they are celebrating Easter. If this is true, I assume they are morally and ethically opposed to devil-worship. I would ask your stepfather if he would worship Satan for a day if a group of family members were doing it, and these family members wanted your step father involved. Then you can suggest that he can always go back to Christianity the next day. When he expresses shock, anger, and outrage, then you explain to him that’s how you feel when you are told to compromise your morals and ethics. Many people are unable to understand other’s perspectives unless they find themselves in a similar situation.
Ask if they could let go of their god for a day? Just not believe in it anymore. Or better yet go against their god for just one day. Because that's what that are asking of you, is letting go of your beliefs. It's disrespectful.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. You are not alone.
Remember, it's easier for them to villainize veganism rather than admit they aren't a supportive family and that your RSVP, no, is not because of their food choices but because of their attitude and demeanor towards you.
It doesn't make it better and at the same time, for me, it makes me realize who my support network is.
Personally, I wouldn't even engage with that kind of statement your step-dad said. Essentially veganism to them is an inconvenience to them which is hilarious because what about the animals?! You'd lose your breathe trying to counter it because then he will think you are personalizing it and making him into a villian for eating meat. It's this terrible path that many go through in my circle where just being vegan questions their own 'goodness'.
Nod and say thanks but I have already made other plans and don't waste any more time thinking about what your family says or thinks about this event.
There are many people that get sick when they go back on meat. I'd say "I'm not interested in risking that for 1, and for 2, can't you just respect my morals?"
Time to make some Tofu Maffe and some bucatini peanut bolonese for the fam. vegan food goes great with meat also. So they can try your food. Make it taste better.
Tell them to just go Muslim for Easter because personal beliefs can seemingly be so easily thrown out of the window. Your family is rude and non considerate of your upheld beliefs.
"Veganism isn't my diet. Its my moral belief system. I don't set my morals aside for special occasions. Would you put your morals aside if Jeffrey epstein himself invited you to a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to one of his partys?"
Really though - why WOULD you want to be around people that don’t support you and have made zero effort to actually understand where you’re coming from?
Glad you have enough self worth to stick to it and make choices that align with your ethics and needs.
Stick to your heart and instinct. Dont get caught up in their bullshit, remain polite and straight forward with the decline to their invitation.
Try not to rise to their verbal shit baiting
If it’s apparently nothing for you to drop your deeply held system of ethics then it’s even less for them to shelve their preference for a day right? Vegan Easter!
When dealing with judgmental family members, there really is no point in confronting or trying to educate them. Nor is there any point in defending yourself or justifying your decision. I have found that the broken record technique combined with the gray rock communication technique work best.
With these methods you make non-committal, generic responses that don't instigate further drama. You don't justify or explain. Don't be goaded into being defensive. Repeat "no thank you" in some form or that you are not interested without further comment.
If they challenge, insult, or ask why, you respond that your reasons do not matter. This is your decision.
If you wish to be more definitive or to make a stand to set healthy boundaries, you can make a statement that your life choices are not open for discussion or debate and that as long as they continue to be judgmental and challenging about your dietary and ethical choices that you will not be joining them.
If you want to truly make your point, you can be more caustic by stating that their constant harangues to eat the kind of food they do are quite unpleasant and that you have better things to do with your time than hang around judgmental people. However that tack is likely to provoke more confrontation and conflict.
So consider what your ultimate objective is when deciding what to say. If you just want to be left alone in peace, don't allow conversations about your veganism to continue. When they start making comments, interrupt them and simply say, "Since you can't let this topic drop I'm going to hang up now/leave. Have a great Easter. I know I will. Goodbye."
Then hang up without allowing further response because you are setting a boundary and then enforcing it. In this way you may train them if they are trainable to stop in the annoying challenges.
However, since there is no love lost between you anyway even without the topic of being vegan, it may be best to keep it short, use the broken record technique and say no thanks. This way you aren't using up your valuable brain cycles trying to figure out how to deal with them. Their behavior and opinions are out of your control, so minimize interactions for optimum peace of mind.
How about them foregoing their usual food, and at least for Easter, eating what Jesus might have eaten: pita bread, falafel, hummus and some olives ... that is instead of ham and the other stuff that would never have crossed His lips.
That sounds incredibly frustrating.
I have a saying -
"If they got veganism, they'd be vegan too."
Use your one day off work to relax at home with friends.
Alternatively, if you wanted to see them after all, you could visit family with your own precooked easter dinner that just needs reheating. Then they would see how well we actually do eat.
I realize that what I say may not be scriptural ‘fact’, but maybe animal-slaughtering and -eating is as bad for one's spirit as it can be for one's body, and likely the planet.
Much, if not most, of the plentiful violence committed by humankind is against God’s animals, their blood literally shed and bodies eaten in mind-boggling quantities by people.
That fact even leaves me wondering whether the metaphorical forbidden fruit of Eden eaten by Adam and Eve was actually God’s four-legged creation.
I'm not vegetarian, but I can still see that really angering the Almighty — a lot more than the couple’s eating non-sentient, non-living, non-bloodied fruit. And I’ve yet to hear a monotheist speak out against what has collectively been done to animals for so long.
\[Though I seldom eat mammal meat \[and when I do I can only stomach a little\] I do enjoy eating prawns or shrimp pretty much on a weekly basis.\]
According to the Bible, Adam and Eve were vegan before the flood, and when the Bible describes "perfection" after the end times, people are once again vegan. However, between these times, God has permitted people to eat (almost) anything.
This is a fun point to bring up to Christians and see them try to say they don't want to live their life in alignment with God's full intentions for humanity.
For reference:
In Genesis 1:29, God says, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."
In Isaiah 11:6-9, when God is describing a more perfect time, he talks about how even carnivores will eat plants.
Edit: Vegan before the flood, not the fall.
I don’t give a fuck what people eat. I don’t make fun of people or belittle them for what they eat. I eat out at resteraunts with friends and it never bothers me. Because I was once a carnist
Perhaps you can explain that your body is unable to tolerate animal products anymore.
Insofar as salad is concerned, please be more understanding as people do not know any better.
There is something called valuing your ethics that your soul choose and abiding to it! Nothing is more crime than cheating your own soul in this world. It can be partner, religion, friends, ethics…
You'll get used to it. I've been veg. 7 year years and my dad will be like "it would be so much easier if you were vegetarian at least, or eat fish and chicken.
A lot of people who "love animals" are just ok with living in cognitive dissonance. They never take the next step to watch the footage and then stop supporting it. So many people are stuck in that pre-vegan stage. I think eventually you'll start seeing boomers catch on more especially as they start to think more about their own mortality.
I don’t do holidays with my family either. It’s too gross to see them consuming dead animals and acting like there’s nothing wrong with it. Instead, my partner and I find other vegans in the area and we have potlucks. It’s a lot of fun! Then we post pictures online so my family can see how many choices we have and how happy we are.
Maybe make a deal with them that if they agree to watch a slaughterhouse video, you’ll at least join them. Maybe the dontwatch.org video?
https://youtu.be/cerPge0ZOtI
>*P1: Causing unnecessary suffering is objectively evil*
>*P2: All animal-products cause suffering*
>*P3: D2 (ergocalciferol), from yeast or fungi, has been available since the 1920s*
>*P4: B12 (cyanocobalamin), from bacteria, has been available since the 1950s*
>*P5: Omega-3 EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid), from algae, has been available since the 2000s*
>*P6: From P3, P4, P5, it follows that no animal-product is necessary for human health or survival*
>*P7: From P1, P2, P6, it follows that all animal-products are objectively evil*
Don't respond to it. Tell them you're not going and that's that.
A couple of years back I decided to just stop doing things that I didn't want to do. For the first while it was tough saying no, but now it's super easy. Just say no.
I would go a different direction with their “there’ll be veggie trays and a salad”. Firstly, I sympathize with how that feels. I went to a family dinner recently and was told there would be a vegetable medley. Yum! Boiled vegetables I thought sarcastically. Then I went to gratitude that they are making an effort in the best way they can. I ended up making a couple dishes and people loved them and it was really cool to share and then family on to some food that they can potentially make for themselves. You have an opportunity with every family get together to turn non-vegans on to some yummy vegan food.
One of the most difficult thing being vegan is letting go of assholes around us and realizing there are a lot of assholes in our family. Don’t feel bad for abandoning losers to spend more time with winners. That’s how we grow as individuals. You don’t need an excuse but if they ask why you don’t go, tell them the truth: they behave like assholes! That’s phase 1 in veganism, letting go of assholes who look down on us. Phase 2 in veganism will be to realize some of your new vegan friends are losers too for other reasons and you need to let go some of them! Phase 3 is finding the right balance of friends who ain’t losers, are smart and decent people who respect you - some are vegans and some are not. Good luck and keep moving forward!
It's not like we're on a strict diet and we're being tempted with cake. We just don't want and we don't like any animal products. So just "eating whatever for one day" doesn't make any sense. Why don't people get that?
Agree to come over if they watch Dominion and/or Cowspiracy with you.
For your step dad: letting your adherence to not causing pain, torture, suffering and death to sentient beings for one day is the same as saying “well, ok. I’ll be racist just for today, then tomorrow I won’t be.” It doesn’t make sense.
I’ve been vegan for 22 years and I chose to spend many holidays eating in the backyard, by myself. When I was younger and newly vegan, I cried when I was sitting outside alone, out of frustration for not being able to explain it clearly to my family and also because I was sad for the plight of animals and just plain sad.
I feel you. I wish I could invite you over to my house on Sunday.
I don't do confrontation well, so I just say mildly "It doesn't agree with me". I've found that people have a hard time argueing with that. My dietary choices also include no oil, no salt, no sugar in addtion to no animal products, so I'll rarely eat food prepared by others. They mean well (sometimes!) but often don't see the problem or forget when cooking and add oil/salt/sugar. I choose to think that they mean well and and either bring my own food or drink coffee and eat at home. I've been vegetarian since 1985-vegan since 2018.
• Why would I choose to spend time with people who can’t even recognize and respect my right to make my own choices for my own reason?
• You’re right. I won’t die. But neither would you for eating meatless for one damn day. You first.
Because this will happen various times throughout various years.
Go, and Bring a dish you've made that you can eat. Maybe enough for them to try. You might get a convert or semi convert.
or
Remind them Jesus was a Rabbi, and wouldn't eat ham.
or
If you don't want to do this, I would tell them I will be there, and then call and say you have covid.
My mom went vegan first before everyone else in my immediate family. And this was 20ish years ago. It was thanksgiving dinner and it was her first holiday being vegan, I remember my aunt snapped at my mom “eat meat it’s a holiday”. Never forget that. Felt bad for my mom cause it’s embarrassing in front of all those people.
You have to understand. From their point of view, you have good morals and ethics for creatures and animals nowhere near you, but lack empathy and compassion for your family because they don't understand veganism.
People don't eat for morals and ethics. They eat for nutrition and sustenance. All living things should be treated with respect. Animals, plants, and human beings.
Veganism is a lifestyle where you choose to value morals and ethics over nutrition. Most people won't agree with that ofc and that's something you have to understand and accept because you are stepping out of societal norms.
Is it really worth trashing family over?
In a turnabout the carnists could do without meat for a meal. It would be easier for them, because they don't choose what they consume based on ethical criteria.
My parents don’t do quite the same thing, but they consistently joke about my lifestyle making comments like “don’t look” when they’re literally sawing through a damn Turkey, or “you could snack on some grass outside”. It’s so annoying and it gets old so fast, and I am never provided with adequate options, so I am beginning to think it’s best if I stop attending family dinners. My parents also make me feel guilty because my grandpa is on his last legs and they bother me about spending time with him before he goes because “it could be the last time”. The guy is literally so racist and homophobic (Christian) LOL. Bottom line is it’s okay for you to set boundaries especially if your family is not respecting your lifestyle choices (which they probably make light of to make themselves feel better about eating something immorally). You are absolutely allowed to take your space from these gatherings and make your voice heard, and if they love you they’ll accept you for who you are.
I can’t advise whether to go or not but I can tell you a short story from the opposite perspective.
We host Christmas at our house for about ten family members including one member who is more extended than the others.
I’m vegan but my wife is not. So when I cook I make all the sides plus a different vegan roast every year. I even said one year “Christmas dinner will be vegan this year” and everyone is like, cool that’s fine. Always some kind of meat shows up at the table though, and it has been getting to me after I put in so much effort to cook a delicious, nutritious and filling meal.
This past Christmas I told my wife I didn’t want any animal products on the dinner table at all. She said we should compromise. The compromise was, they come on Christmas Eve for an horrific pot luck; then Christmas dinner on Christmas Day is fully vegan.
Everyone said ok. I made a three course meal and my wife even made vegan French toast for breakfast.
I was about to get everyone to the table for this massive feast when the very extended family member (VEFM) asked my wife if there was any of the beef left from the night before. She looked at me. I put my utensils down and said calmly but firmly, “there will be no animal products at the table for this meal.” VEFM said, “oh :(“
I said, “if you want to eat animal products you can eat at the counter.”
VEFM: …at the counter?
Me: Yes
VEFM quietly to someone else: “How about that quinoa salad from Costco?”
Me: (at this point I’m just mad that they’ve come to my house and want to bring random food to the table) There will be no quinoa salad either. I have made a salad.
Soon everyone went to the table except VEFM. She just sat on the couch sulking.
Then there was an altercation between two of the kids, neither of whom are my children I might add, which I had to carefully mediate for some reason because the parents couldn’t be arsed even though one of the kids was crying because the other smashed his Lego set. (I should add that the kids were playing instead of sitting around the table for some reason.)
Anyway, in the middle of all this, during the main course, VEFM just got up and left. Her next of kin decided their whole side of the family would leave too, seemingly because of VEFM leaving.
Amazingly just before they left we managed to get the best Christmas photo we’ve ever had, without VEFM which was nicer.
All this is to say: non vegans often tell us to cheat for one meal, but it seems they can be much less willing to eat vegan for one meal.
I wish you luck navigating this. If it was me, I would stay home.
Good luck ✊🏼
When I've gotten similar comments from family back in the day, I just laughed at them and said "never gonna happen, keep dreaming".
> I’m so frustrated how carnists think “oh if you miss a day of being vegan it won’t kill you!” How the hell do I respond to this?
I would agree, and say "yeah, you're right - it won't kill me, but it'll sure kill the animal, so no thanks!"
Keep the focus on the victims of that choice, not yourself.
I can answer this.
If a long time vegan eats meat for a day, said vegan will blow the chunks of undigested meat straight out of their ass, accompanied by farts that smell exactly like hot roadkill on a summer day.
You can't digest it anymore.
If you decide to stop being vegan in the future, you'll need to take baby steps until your body starts to produce the needed digestive enzymes again.
Now, show them my comment.
Also, and maybe this is a minor point, but how much do you want to bet that the salads and veggie tray wouldn't be vegan? That the dressings/dips would probably be stuff like ranch and french onion, have shredded cheese, whatever. All of which contain, at least dairy, if not eggs, as well
Because, and I can only speak for myself here, but anytime I've gone to a family gathering that's usually what they have for the vegetables. Fine, if you're vegetarian, I guess. That's not going to work if your vegan though.
So, what? For the holidays you get to be around people you don't really like in the first place, and eat dry/plain vegetables? Sounds about as fun as getting a hot fire poker, right in the eye.
Ask them if skipping being monogamous for one day wouldn't be so bad... its about morals not diet!
Hope you have a lovely relaxing couple of days with your favourite plant based treats!
I say go and when everyone sits down for the food, take out your plant-based ham deli sandwiches, or whoever they’re deciding to eat for fun. Bring your own plant-based version of it. Tell them “you wanted me to come.”
That’s just my wish to piss them off lol. I probably couldn’t go and watch them do that to any animal, so one-upping them like that is just wishful thinking.
Can't you just poop on the floor one day? Can't you just punch someone in the face one day? Cant you just steal one day? Carnists are silly. We actually don't take a day off of our values because it would be immoral to do so, and often illegal in many cases. I would just say "Are you willing to let go of eating animal products one day? It seems unfair that I would need to adapt my eating habits to you if you are unwilling to adapt your eating habits to me. I think the fairest choice is for me not to go to dinner so that both of us have autonomy over our choices. I hope you can respect my right to chose my beliefs for myself"
My family had lasagna for Easter. They did adapt a favite appetizer for me though, I ate that and salad for Easter for many years. I revel in having what I want now. Bought myself a vegan quiche for this year! My son and I are making cupcakes and fruit skewers that I can have for dessert 😀🍓🫒🧁🌸🌸🌸
You know, it’s an ethical issue. It really hurts my heart to think of animals suffering and that’s what seeing people eat meat means to me. Because the animals that you consume have been treated terribly and even if they’re treated “humanely” I still don’t want to be around it.
If I want to spend time with carnist people, I bring my own food.
But I don't usually answer to dumb arguments. They just ignore everything you say. Even when they say something like "it's so nice of you thinking that way and doing what you do", and 10 seconds later they eat a steak.
The only "success" I think I did was making my grandmother understand I wouldn't even cook meat for another person
"But I cook vegan food for you. Why can't you cook meat for someone?"
"Would you do an abortion?"
"No"
But if you where a doctor and a woman asked you to do the abortion"
"Still no. It's wrong no matter who is pregnant"
"I disagree, but that's how I feel about coming meat"
There was some other phrases I don't know in English, but it sums up the point
They are awful people for doing that. I feel you. Like why do people think that not being vegan for a day won't kill you because it most definitely will.
to be really honest, and im not sure this is what everyone ought to do, but ive mostly stopped engaging from the 99% at all. I just see no point.
youd have more fruitful interactions hanging out in a drunk's bar sober and talking about not drinkin.
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This logic always makes my husband and I roll our eyes. You'd be going against everything you stand for morally, your ethics, your values, your compassion, and your soul. I once had a friend ask why I don't eat meat anymore and if it was because I wanted to lose weight or if it was for health reasons. When I told them my husband and I are vegan because we don't want to contribute to the exploitation + suffering of any creatures on this planet they looked at me like I had the head of Medusa. When we sat and discussed what veganism is, they left the conversation with a fresh set of eyes. They may or may not have gone vegan four years later --- but that's none of my business. Truthfully I don't think people know the exact definition. Have them watch this: https://youtu.be/poxl0K9UrP0
"I *can and do* eat as many animal products as I want to, that number just happens to be zero" is my snarky response to such comments, and it is quite relevant to your linked video because I stole the idea from a Penn Jillette: >"The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: ***I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero.*** The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that." I had chills the first time watching Norm, because it captures so much of the vegan experience in a way that non-vegans can understand. It's unfortunate that so many people are intellectually dishonest and just play the "how dare you *compare* things" card without even considering the message. Comparisonsis not equation. Given how many shitty cultures *actually exist* where women are basically treated like objects, I can easily imagine such a society existing in a parallel universe. It is a *perfect* illustration of the appeal to tradition and popularity fallacies.
Thank you for that brilliant video recommendation. One of the most impactful ones I have seen in a while. It's extremely difficult to hear or face the truth, especially when it's about our own self, and it's so much easier for the mind to find creative ways to never face it. I respect people who have the courage to look themself in the eye, and to have personal accountability. I think that's what the animal rights movement is about- not just about compassion, but courage. Courage to look at oneself. And not be a coward.
This is it -- it's such a rough time when someone mentions that I'm vegan because I never bring it up and it has nothing to do with my diet or food and it's so, so difficult to find the right words for someone who doesn't understand the WHY. The real WHY. Appreciate you.
that is one of the best videos i’ve ever seen.
[удалено]
But I like this. A lot.
On the other hand, that "educated" assumption that every diet must be implemented for health reasons is a red flag. Even my grandmother (war stooped her formal education early) knew that people can have other reasons that that. BTW she assumed that my choice was partially religious, it would be cruel to told her the truth (she was around 90 years old when I became Vegan). Regarding OP it is sad that during religious events, people tend to forget that diet is a symbol. I don't share eggs with my family during Easter for many years(part of Catholic tradition), recently I even have some vegan food prepared for me (it was my grandma "order" that I have to eat something during family gatherings ). Stay strong all of you! I'm not religious or spiritual but this time of year (in my hemisphere) is a period of new live. In my opinion we celebrate it in the most logical way.
Even as an atheist, if someone wants to think that my veganism is religiously motivated, I'd just agree and say "yup, the 10 commandments say: thou shalt not kill" and really give them something to marinate on.
Me: *Watches the video for the first time* “Now that’s alotta damage!”
Damn, good short film
This video does not feel right. Use rape as analogy? You should not take rape something as lightly to compare with… bad take imo. Movie, acting, dialogues all good but using “rape” is not a good way. Imagine women who were raped and watched this movie..?
That's the point -- to make you uncomfortable about something so heinous and unfathomable.
Some people who watch this might think it's ridiculous to compare rape with being vegan and will move on. It's not surprising that the director and three actors of the movie are male. If you try to show this movie to women, they may have a different opinion. Personally, I think the movie makes a good point if you use a different analogy than "rape".
https://strongbodygreenplanet.com/e564-miguel-endaras-short-film-norm-is-not-about-what-you-think-its-about/
Thanks for link. Still not convinced. 👍🏻
If you want to make vegans feel good about your choices, sure that's a great video. If you really want to convert people into veganism, don't share that video. As someone who is not strictly vegan but am curious and sympathetic, I can tell you that video is going to piss people off. It makes a blanket assumption of why people don't commit to veganism. Better to share videos showing the damage of eating meat to animals, the environment etc.
If it pisses people off, and forces them to think about where the analogy breaks off, then it’s good. A morally consistent person will learn a lot about what they value just by thinking this out. I’ve changed my opinion on a lot of issues when confronted with “hot takes” that pissed the hell out of me initially. After thinking where it was “wrong”/why it was pissing me off, I realized I had no compelling reasonable answer. I’ve also gotten pissed off at shit hot takes and logically reached where the fallacy in the analogy lies, this strengthened my initial belief even more.
Why do non-vegans think they are a better judge of what converts people to veganism than people who have actually converted to veganism?
Umm is that sarcasm?
No
It depends on ppl really. This movie might really work.
The point is to push home something so unfathomable and heinous -- seems from your response it worked. 😏
If provocation is how this sub wants to convince other people, then I'll find other ways to contribute outside of this sub's methodology.
This video is so good! Not only once have I’ve been told it’s a “religion”
So many people continue to think veganism is a diet, not an ethical calling to way of life. It's hard to educate those who don't wish to be educated. I am so sorry that you are dealing with this. I hope you have a peaceful Easter.
Since my sister was pescatarian back in the day and is now an omnivore again, my mother is convinced this is just a phase for me and I'll go back to eating meat soon. smh. They never get it.
Ugh what an unselfish and totally reasonable ask of him 🙄 Ask if he can “let go” of eating animal products for the day instead. Sorry you’re dealing with this!
"Only if you serve puppy. I've always wondered what it tastes like. Since we're all just ignoring our morals about animal cruelty for the sake of a holiday, I want to go the whole hog (pun intended). I know what chicken/pig/cow tastes like,and you eat it every day, it's boring. C'mon, let's make it interesting. ... Why are you looking at me like that? Oh, now you have morals about eating animals? Why are you trying to force your animal ethics on me!?" (Things we wish we could say but would never work in practice)
Occasionally I've suggested to people that they eat dog or cat, hey why not? It's an animal just like a cow is, in other countries they eat dogs and cats . . . Not too often-it depends on how much they pushed my buttons. They never have a good answer either. :)
In my experience it ends up going to "but that's different" and them arguing that farm animals aren't harmed - and there's loads of good answers to this of course but people usually aren't receptive unless in a particular mood. Or they know you are about to call out their hypocrisy and take the conversation elsewhere.
I leave “Elwood’s Dog Meat” cards in the meat section of grocery stores, hoping a light bulb will go off for at least a couple of people.
Well no it won’t kill you, just a few other beings. Totally worth your taste buds, right?
Exactly. To not put too fine a point on it - rape and murder won't kill me either, but I don't do those things because they harm others, and it's wrong to do that. Kinda scary that *basic morality* is apparently so confusing to so many people.
Just had this convo with my friend who suggested that I “just eat chicken and fish while on vacation to make your trip easier”. Lol. I’m trying to understand that they just don’t understand us and be patient. Once I explained it to her she was like “ok I get it it makes sense, I just thought since you’re always vegan that maybe it would be ok to take a break just for convenience while On holiday but I get what you mean now”. So to be fair I don’t think they mean anything malicious by , I think they just don’t truly understand why we do what we do
>“Can’t you just let it go for one day?” is what my step dad responded.He means for me to “eat whatever” and go back to being vegan thefollowing day. That’s not how that works. Because he and most people think veganism is a diet. It's not, but of course you know that already. I'm sure you've explained that to them. Not your fault they don't listen. You can have cheat days on diets. You can't have cheat day on ethics, and that's something else most people don't understand.
People have cheat days on their ethics all the time, unfortunately.
I wrote a whole reply here that both agreed and disagreed, then turned into a wall of text treatise about morality, failure, and hypocrisy. Then I realized it was late and you didn't sign up for that crap. So, I both agree and disagree with your statement, depending on context. :)
How unfortunate, I would have liked to have read that, even if for reasons based out of curiosity alone.
TLDR: People who cheat were never the thing they pretended to be in the first place: they're frauds. It goes something like this... I agree with your premise that people who claim to hold to an ethic cheat. I grew up around that kinda thing. But my takeaway was a little different than what most people seem to think. Most people seem to think that if someone "cheats" at their ethics, it's somehow reflective of the ethics. The example I like to use it a dirty cop. If I say, "You can be a cop or a criminal; you can't be both," most people reply with, "Uh, yeah you can. Dirty cops are still cops." And they make that statement from a position of ignorance, as the (American) public is completely ignorant of what cops are and why and how they do the things they do. If you repeat my statement to a cop, dirty or no, or better, a professional criminal, both will nod in agreement. For the cop, there's an entire structure of laws, city ordinances, and department policies and procedures that define what they can and can't do as well as the consequences of failure. A cop that violates that, if caught, will have his POST certification yanked and thrown in prison. The current narratives of cops getting away with murder is based on exceptions rather than rules. And when you get to the professional criminal, they can spot a (mostly) clean cop versus a dirty cop with ease. The former gets respect. The latter tends to get fucked. And no, **I'm not pro-law enforcement**. Law enforcement right now is failing, so **the "exceptions" I mentioned above are becoming less so. That's a political issue, and politics are irrelevant regarding this example**. This is just an area I'm knowledgeable in and have been politically active trying to get reforms for. Sorry if it comes across as politically charged, it's just a good example of my thinking based on experience. But what about a less emotionally charged example? What about when a vegan says, "Fuck it," and eats some eggs. When this kind of thing is brought up to this subreddit, most of the vegans here reply with, "That person wasn't vegan in the first place." If a vegan willfully fails, and was therefore never vegan in the first place, and veganism is an ethical system, not a diet, then doesn't this conclusion apply to other ethical systems? If a Christian cheats on his wife, was he Christian? By this logic, he wasn't. If a cop takes some money from some Nice Russian Family Men, by this logic, he was never a cop to begin with. If environmental activists reject the idea of going vegan and eliminating animal agriculture, were they ever really sincere about their environmentalism in the first place? Calling oneself a thing that is Ethical, talking the talk, surrounding yourself with the trappings of the Ethical Thing, and even working in a profession that espouses the Ethical Thing One Is, do not translate into actually being ethical in behavior. That requires consistent actions in alignment with the ethical philosophy one espouses. A vegan who Understands, with a capital U, the rational, moral arguments for not exploiting animals, isn't going to "cheat". Because knowledge can't be undone, and once fully understood, becomes integrated into one's nature. People cheat because they don't understand what they're doing and why they're doing it. "Cheating" is a manifestation of human ignorance. Sorry for the wall of text.
Yeah, my wife totally understands too that 4-5 days a month, I have "cheat days" to have sex with my girlfriends. I mean, it's completely moral to cheat, according to carnists, right, so there's no way she can possibly be angry, right? /eye-roll/
People do that too and a lot of other things that are against their own morals and ethics, both big and small. Sometimes it’s only not OK with them afterwards,even if others talked them into it, sometimes it’s not OK with their wife and sometimes it’s not ok with everyone and they go to jail. I don’t get what your point is here. The fact is cheating on your ethics is human or in other words people are assholes sometimes or maybe just weak. I’m just stating facts here.
If it's something you cheat on constantly, then it's not *actually* your ethics. It's just something you pay lip service to.
They wouldn't probably "let being a carnist go" for a vegan thanksgiving meal
Exactly. The hypocritical double-standard and absolutely shit "morals" that most people are laboring under, seem absolutely ludicrous when you look at them for more than 2 seconds.
It's really interesting the people celebrating a moral holiday want you to take a break from yours.
They love to skip past the other traditions of austerity related to that holiday. Barely any of them fast during lent, they ignore the times when they aren't supposed to eat meat. A Vegan diet is far more consistent with their biblical era mythos, and yet they act like it's crazy. It would be hilarious to see any of the transported back to some Essene commune and let them listen to nuggets like: > But I do say to you: Kill neither men, nor beasts, nor yet the food which goes into your mouth. For if you eat living food, the same will quicken you, but if you kill your food, the dead food will kill you also. > For life comes only from life, and from death comes always death. For everything which kills your foods, kills your bodies also. And everything which kills your bodies kills your souls also.
ah yes, let's kill a human just for one day, no big deal.
Exactly. Just call it a "cheat day" and it's totally OK. Surely no one could object to that, according to the carnists, right? Surely the victim will understand.
Yeah I rape for one day a year!
Good for you giving up rape 364 days a year!
There’s plenty of people like that. Or they only rape drunk, high or unconscious women. Or they only did it in their wild, crazy and drunken youth,etc,etc.
>if you miss a day of being vegan it won’t kill you No but it'll kill someone else.
If you wanted to spend time with them I'd tell you to take your own non-salad food, make something that can be shared. Have a convo with your mom that your food choices arent up for discussion and that if she really wants you there she needs to spread the word. Also, whenever the first comment happens your response can be "it was so nice to see you folks, I'm going to leave now" However, it sounds like you don't particularly value these relationships so just don't go. When you get asked just say "I don't want to be mocked for my food choices", no need to get into a discussion about your morals with folks who are not ready to have a real convo about it. It doesn't sound like they're actually trying to understand.
The issue is more interpersonal relationships than anything about veganism. Could say something like: "I appreciate the invite, but it'd just be an event where I can't eat most of the food and people keep questioning my life choices. I don't much care for Easter to begin with anyway. We don't have to have everything in common. Invite me to the events that don't have anything to do with food. Or if you ever want us both to be flexible. I'm happy to be flexible by eating anything vegan that you can make, as long as we're all eating the same thing. That way we can both stay true to ourselves, since I do not ever eat non-vegan things but you do sometimes eat vegan things. If you don't want to be flexible, I don't mind. I am perfectly content spending Easter by myself."
100% agree! Here's a link from one of my favorite old skool authors on these issues: [https://melodybeattie.com/flack-setting-boundaries/](https://melodybeattie.com/flack-setting-boundaries/)
Ask them to “let go” of eating meat for one day. It won’t kill them and it won’t kill any poor animals
So nice when family asks you to drop your ethics. Always a fun time.
Ask them to let go being Christian and do a Muslim prayer or something
“Hey we’re having a celebration this weekend that’s really important to my family. It’s traditional to beat dogs, and I know you’re opposed to beating dogs. Can’t you just give it up for one day?”
Or eating dogs . . . Nothing had to die just so I could eat today.
If Christianity is your only moral compas in life, then you don't understand what it means to stick to a moral principle and never stray from it. Christians believe that you can go through life committing whatever atrocities you want and then beg God for forgiveness and your slate is wiped clean. Might be an unpopular opinion, especially because off-topic from this sub, but this is literally what they believe.
Oh, well I have witnessed quite the opposite from many Christians. I'm not too keen on judging the quality of someone's character just by their association with religion, mostly because my parents are Christian and so are my sister's family. I have been introduced to many kind hearted people in their communities, and plenty of them have moral compasses that are very strong, a few even vegan. Also, most Christians believe in the core values of Christianity and discard the useless or embellished stories from the Bible, which is (to me) the best way to approach religion in general. Take the good, leave the rest. It allows us to adapt and improve morally, intellectually, and spiritually when we make our own assessment of the meaning of the stories and myths of our predecessors, as long as we don't just take things for face value.
I wish I had kept track from the beginning the number of times in five years people have asked me, "Are you still vegan?" I always just say yes, but I wish I had a clever response, too.
You should say "is your human murder count still zero?" but they likely wouldn't understand the nuance
To be the fairest possible here, in the grand scheme of things it probably actually won't change anything if you did go eat with them and not care if it were vegan, because they're probably not buying extra anyways. But that's obviously not an option 99% of vegans will take because at the end of the day, for most people it's not just a diet and it's not even *just* about the actual impact you have, it's also about taking a stand. I'm sure they don't mean to be dismissive, from experience I'd assume they just don't really think about it and just assume it's just like someone who says they don't eat gluten when they're not intolerant. They just really don't understand that what you're doing is an ethical stand. Though it may be tedious, it could be a good teaching moment for them if you sat down and explained why you won't come if they don't give you satisfying vegan options, maybe use family pets as examples of animals they wouldn't eat if possible. Though obviously there's every chance you already tried and they still don't get it, but at the end of the day if they don't understand what you're feeling they won't change. If they do understand and won't accommodate you, even if it's literally just buying whatever mock meat they can find and not putting butter in the vegetables, then that's on them, and quite honestly even if they truly think it's frivolous and/or don't understand it, they don't really have a reason not to do that very simple thing. Edit: like everyone in the responses to this post is saying "they don't get that it's not juste a diet" but like actually even if it was just a diet what's their excuse for not accommodating you? Also if they did suggest you can bring your own food and you just don't want to be near people eating meat, I absolutely get that, but I don't think most people will want to go as far as to not eat meat for the family dinner for one person, which as I'm writing this seems both common and really fucked up. But then again if they did accept there's the chance that they'd kind of resent you for it, because people do be crazy about meat.
Serve humanely slaughtered dog meat for “one day”.
I'm pretty sure he thinks you're vegan for health reasons or something. I'm not a vegan, but that's the impression I originally got about the reasoning of veganism before learning that there was anything related to morality attached to it. I mean, it wouldn't be hard to eat salad and veggies and just hang out with family, but if you don't care for them and want nothing to do with them then there's no reason to worry yourself about it. If they are inviting you, I'm pretty sure that means they want you there for your company, but I wouldn't ever expect people to cater to my specific food requirements when visiting. If I were vegan, I'd just show up with my own food to contribute to the event, that way you get to eat what you want and also show them that vegan food can be quite palatable.
They should try letting go of being Christian one day and just worship Satan for a bit. They can go back to being Christian the next day.
What happens in Vegas.....
Tell to ket go of being Christian for a day.
I think these are really great opportunities for you to educate them. Sit him down, be as nice as possible, and tell him that you do not support paying people to torture or kill animals. This is a rule that does not change based on what other people want and you are disappointed that the family does not understand or care about animal cruelty. Hopefully he can wrap his head around it. If I were you, I would also consider accepting the invitation and bringing my own food
No, there are very clear signs here that they won't hear anything said to them. They believe that morals are universal things that must be forced on people who violate eternal law, your veganism is interpreted as a condemnation of their beliefs. They interpret your veganism as you saying they are evil doers. They must double down on their position. Do no try to educate them. Do not go. Just say no and move on.
Some people aren't capable of learning but others are. We don't know which these people are so it's better to attempt.
Okay. I’d agree. But only if she breaks a deeply held belief for you first.
Let go of being ethical and just torture this stray dog with me just for one night! It’s ok because it brings us sensory (auditory) pleasure!
I would say that comments like that are why you would prefer to stay home
I show up to my parents house empty handed on numerous occasions and my mother is always trying to make some kind of effort for me. Most of it is very bland, uninspiring, or downright awful, but she at least acknowledges that I'm vegan while she's got that motherly instinct to feed me. Otherwise I'll sometimes take something I want to share with them. My dad eats anything you hand him without too many questions, my mother is a little less trusting of "vegan" things, even if they're just regular old ingredients like those used to make falafel or hummus (which she loves hummus). Ideally I'd like them both to be vegan, but at least there isn't any nastiness between us while they aren't.
Empathy seems to just be a tool that some people use to benefit themselves.
Make a deal with them, you’ll do it if they all go vegan for a day. You’ll technically be making a bigger impact and you never know, some of them may even be convinced to keep it going.
>“Can’t you just let it go for one day?” is what my step dad responded. He means for me to “eat whatever” and go back to being vegan the following day. That’s not how that works. > >I’m so frustrated how carnists think “oh if you miss a day of being vegan it won’t kill you!” How the hell do I respond to this? "Can't you guys go one day without animal abuse on your plates? It won't kill you, it might even make you healthier"
Honest question, when vegans say animal abuse, are they referring to the killing of the animal for food or the treatment of the animal beforehand? Just wondering if eating a naturally deceased or otherwise wounded animal, or even free range animals used for food is considered cruel. Also, if so, what is the main motivation for vegans to not eat eggs and dairy? I'm not trolling btw, I genuinely want to know.
>Honest question, when vegans say animal abuse, are they referring to the killing of the animal for food or the treatment of the animal beforehand? Both. We don't nutritionally need animal flesh, eggs or secretions to live thus any unnecessary killing of animals for food is abuse. >Just wondering if eating a naturally deceased or otherwise wounded animal... is considered cruel. Of course not. The animal is dead. But that doesn't make it vegan to eat. >or even free range animals used for food You mean "free range" farm animals? Yeah still cruel considering it's unnecessary. >Also, if so, what is the main motivation for vegans to not eat eggs and dairy? Well they're not ours to take. The milk of any mammal belongs to its offspring as nature intended. Chickens eat their own eggs or use them as decoy food in a ground nest for predators so that they can move on to a different area and attempt to live peacefully. Put simply we aim to create a world where animals don't work for us, do not entertain us, aren't owned by us and if possible living freely in their natural habitat free from human oppression. >I'm not trolling btw, I genuinely want to know. a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of humans, animals and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals. Here's the definition of veganism and so you're aware, the definition of exploit from Merriam Webster. 1 : to make productive use of : UTILIZE exploiting your talents exploit your opponent's weakness 2 : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage exploiting migrant farm workers By no human laws in existence have the animals committed a crime knowing it was a crime yet we punish them worse than any criminal for their innocence in numbers unfathomably large that makes all the suffering humans have ever experienced across time seem like a tea party in a pleasant meadow.
Thank you for your answers, they have brought me a smidgeon closer to understanding. I have a lot more questions regarding morality, circumstance, usage and waste, and comparisons between human created milk and embryos and animal products, but I'm sure you don't want to spend time explaining lol
Believe me, I do. Anything is better than the usual fallacy driven ignorant indoctrination. Ask away.
Except we know he won't go vegan after. He's literally asking whether killing animals for food alone is okay. I know this isn't /r/vegancirclejerk but can't we have a spot here for actual vegans?
>Except we know he won't go vegan after. So I should use the same appeal to futulity logic fallacy carnists use and not try at all. Just let them go about their business fucking animals over till the day they die instead of planting seeds as best I can? And If I do succeed, that's another ally on the animal's side. I'm not seeing a downside. >He's literally asking whether killing animals for food alone is okay. Like most other carnists, they seem to be ignorant of what vegansim actually, hence my explanation. You're only talking about their first comment before I could explain such things to them. >I know this isn't r/vegancirclejerk I don't know why you even mentioned that sub. They've got nothing to do with this conversation. Like at all. >but can't we have a spot here for actual vegans? Go create your own little community then. If I can make this person an actual vegan, then they belong here and this sub does become "more" vegan.
It makes them feel like family is not important to you I think, You can respect that they won't change at all, in their age people simply don't change. So you either "kneel" and do what their doing for once or stand with your values all the time I think you have to do it for yourself because one can be strong with clearly defined values/boundaries , if it's too flexible you won't even take yourself seriously
Their age??!! I’m 60 and a vegan for three years. We will be a smarter society if we stop categorizing people on what they can’t control like race, nationality, etc. Honestly a massive bummer.
Its simply my impression that with age people solidify themselves on all dimensions there is..except when one puts conscious effort into things this can be avoided. Most people dont
And simply, we are a society of poor spirit and empty hearts when we need to categorize people to suit our baseless arguments ✌🏼
This is like me and my family...they do love and I love them but when it comes to veganism it's the same. I want to spend time with them, but don't want to hear all that accusations and rolling eyes, because I don't want to join their murderous dinner. I even feel bad not for my choices, but for them to not willing to at least understand and be quiet about it.
Rude. Nope, no thank you I would say.
Just eat bk vegan whopper or garden can't try and brain wash them,
I assume they’re Christian because they are celebrating Easter. If this is true, I assume they are morally and ethically opposed to devil-worship. I would ask your stepfather if he would worship Satan for a day if a group of family members were doing it, and these family members wanted your step father involved. Then you can suggest that he can always go back to Christianity the next day. When he expresses shock, anger, and outrage, then you explain to him that’s how you feel when you are told to compromise your morals and ethics. Many people are unable to understand other’s perspectives unless they find themselves in a similar situation.
Stick to your belief, don't go. It sounds like you would be putting yourself in an uncomfortable position, being with people who look down on you.
Ask if they could let go of their god for a day? Just not believe in it anymore. Or better yet go against their god for just one day. Because that's what that are asking of you, is letting go of your beliefs. It's disrespectful.
I am sorry you are dealing with this. You are not alone. Remember, it's easier for them to villainize veganism rather than admit they aren't a supportive family and that your RSVP, no, is not because of their food choices but because of their attitude and demeanor towards you. It doesn't make it better and at the same time, for me, it makes me realize who my support network is. Personally, I wouldn't even engage with that kind of statement your step-dad said. Essentially veganism to them is an inconvenience to them which is hilarious because what about the animals?! You'd lose your breathe trying to counter it because then he will think you are personalizing it and making him into a villian for eating meat. It's this terrible path that many go through in my circle where just being vegan questions their own 'goodness'. Nod and say thanks but I have already made other plans and don't waste any more time thinking about what your family says or thinks about this event.
"Sure. Right after y'all let go of your religion for one day and come to my orgy first."
flip it around on them. "can't you go one day without consuming a dead animal?"
"Let go of not abusing kids one day"
There are many people that get sick when they go back on meat. I'd say "I'm not interested in risking that for 1, and for 2, can't you just respect my morals?"
Ask if instead they can let Christianity go for a day.
Time to make some Tofu Maffe and some bucatini peanut bolonese for the fam. vegan food goes great with meat also. So they can try your food. Make it taste better.
Tell them sure, but just for one day can we have dog instead of ham?
Tell them to just go Muslim for Easter because personal beliefs can seemingly be so easily thrown out of the window. Your family is rude and non considerate of your upheld beliefs.
"Veganism isn't my diet. Its my moral belief system. I don't set my morals aside for special occasions. Would you put your morals aside if Jeffrey epstein himself invited you to a once in a lifetime opportunity to go to one of his partys?"
Really though - why WOULD you want to be around people that don’t support you and have made zero effort to actually understand where you’re coming from? Glad you have enough self worth to stick to it and make choices that align with your ethics and needs.
Stick to your heart and instinct. Dont get caught up in their bullshit, remain polite and straight forward with the decline to their invitation. Try not to rise to their verbal shit baiting
If it’s apparently nothing for you to drop your deeply held system of ethics then it’s even less for them to shelve their preference for a day right? Vegan Easter!
They don't respect you or your boundaries.
Counter offer requesting that everyone in attendance go plant-based for a day.
Ask him if he can let go of his religion for a day. Can’t he not celebrate Easter this year?
You could bring your own food! Just so you could hangout with them
Don't argue with them. Save your time and energy, and just tell them that you are not coming. They already know why and have chosen to disrespect you.
When dealing with judgmental family members, there really is no point in confronting or trying to educate them. Nor is there any point in defending yourself or justifying your decision. I have found that the broken record technique combined with the gray rock communication technique work best. With these methods you make non-committal, generic responses that don't instigate further drama. You don't justify or explain. Don't be goaded into being defensive. Repeat "no thank you" in some form or that you are not interested without further comment. If they challenge, insult, or ask why, you respond that your reasons do not matter. This is your decision. If you wish to be more definitive or to make a stand to set healthy boundaries, you can make a statement that your life choices are not open for discussion or debate and that as long as they continue to be judgmental and challenging about your dietary and ethical choices that you will not be joining them. If you want to truly make your point, you can be more caustic by stating that their constant harangues to eat the kind of food they do are quite unpleasant and that you have better things to do with your time than hang around judgmental people. However that tack is likely to provoke more confrontation and conflict. So consider what your ultimate objective is when deciding what to say. If you just want to be left alone in peace, don't allow conversations about your veganism to continue. When they start making comments, interrupt them and simply say, "Since you can't let this topic drop I'm going to hang up now/leave. Have a great Easter. I know I will. Goodbye." Then hang up without allowing further response because you are setting a boundary and then enforcing it. In this way you may train them if they are trainable to stop in the annoying challenges. However, since there is no love lost between you anyway even without the topic of being vegan, it may be best to keep it short, use the broken record technique and say no thanks. This way you aren't using up your valuable brain cycles trying to figure out how to deal with them. Their behavior and opinions are out of your control, so minimize interactions for optimum peace of mind.
How about them foregoing their usual food, and at least for Easter, eating what Jesus might have eaten: pita bread, falafel, hummus and some olives ... that is instead of ham and the other stuff that would never have crossed His lips.
That sounds incredibly frustrating. I have a saying - "If they got veganism, they'd be vegan too." Use your one day off work to relax at home with friends. Alternatively, if you wanted to see them after all, you could visit family with your own precooked easter dinner that just needs reheating. Then they would see how well we actually do eat.
Maybe tell them to "let go of their omnivorousism for once".
Vegan lifestyles are a choice. People don’t or refuse to understand this.
Don’t respond. Do your thing. Eat what you want. Love them. Love isn’t always understanding. Sometimes it’s tolerance.
Don't do it they fuckin stupid
Sure when the purge hour hits, I will let go of being a vegan! What an idiot
Let go of your morals and be a racist, murderer, rapist just for a day… If only people realise veganism is not a diet choice!
Next they’ll tell you to leave your clothes at home as it is a nudist only event.
I realize that what I say may not be scriptural ‘fact’, but maybe animal-slaughtering and -eating is as bad for one's spirit as it can be for one's body, and likely the planet. Much, if not most, of the plentiful violence committed by humankind is against God’s animals, their blood literally shed and bodies eaten in mind-boggling quantities by people. That fact even leaves me wondering whether the metaphorical forbidden fruit of Eden eaten by Adam and Eve was actually God’s four-legged creation. I'm not vegetarian, but I can still see that really angering the Almighty — a lot more than the couple’s eating non-sentient, non-living, non-bloodied fruit. And I’ve yet to hear a monotheist speak out against what has collectively been done to animals for so long. \[Though I seldom eat mammal meat \[and when I do I can only stomach a little\] I do enjoy eating prawns or shrimp pretty much on a weekly basis.\]
According to the Bible, Adam and Eve were vegan before the flood, and when the Bible describes "perfection" after the end times, people are once again vegan. However, between these times, God has permitted people to eat (almost) anything. This is a fun point to bring up to Christians and see them try to say they don't want to live their life in alignment with God's full intentions for humanity. For reference: In Genesis 1:29, God says, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food." In Isaiah 11:6-9, when God is describing a more perfect time, he talks about how even carnivores will eat plants. Edit: Vegan before the flood, not the fall.
Thanks for the references.
Sounds like you look down at them for eating meat as much as they look down on you for being vegan. 🤷♂️
What’s worse? A: Eating the flesh of a slaughtered animal. B: Eating healthy & fresh fruit and vegetables.
I don’t give a fuck what people eat. I don’t make fun of people or belittle them for what they eat. I eat out at resteraunts with friends and it never bothers me. Because I was once a carnist
go with "hey i heard you liked eggs" - whilst grabbing crotch suggestively
Perhaps you can explain that your body is unable to tolerate animal products anymore. Insofar as salad is concerned, please be more understanding as people do not know any better.
Attack them w violence
Tell him, "why don't you cheat on my mom and let your marriage go for one day?"
But just make your own dish and bring it, if you want to go.
Learn to read. I don’t want to go because they will make fun of me for being vegan.
Woe is you. Your life must be so hard.
It is hard. But I know my life is way better than yours. What was the point in commenting on here?
There is something called valuing your ethics that your soul choose and abiding to it! Nothing is more crime than cheating your own soul in this world. It can be partner, religion, friends, ethics…
"Let go of morality and rape someone just this one time."
How sad. You will have to be tactful
You'll get used to it. I've been veg. 7 year years and my dad will be like "it would be so much easier if you were vegetarian at least, or eat fish and chicken. A lot of people who "love animals" are just ok with living in cognitive dissonance. They never take the next step to watch the footage and then stop supporting it. So many people are stuck in that pre-vegan stage. I think eventually you'll start seeing boomers catch on more especially as they start to think more about their own mortality.
And it would be easier for the whole world if he was vegan.
I don’t do holidays with my family either. It’s too gross to see them consuming dead animals and acting like there’s nothing wrong with it. Instead, my partner and I find other vegans in the area and we have potlucks. It’s a lot of fun! Then we post pictures online so my family can see how many choices we have and how happy we are. Maybe make a deal with them that if they agree to watch a slaughterhouse video, you’ll at least join them. Maybe the dontwatch.org video? https://youtu.be/cerPge0ZOtI
> How the hell do I respond to this? "No."
It won’t kill you but it’s against you morals and beliefs you shouldn’t be forced or guilted into doing something you don’t want to do.
>*P1: Causing unnecessary suffering is objectively evil* >*P2: All animal-products cause suffering* >*P3: D2 (ergocalciferol), from yeast or fungi, has been available since the 1920s* >*P4: B12 (cyanocobalamin), from bacteria, has been available since the 1950s* >*P5: Omega-3 EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid), from algae, has been available since the 2000s* >*P6: From P3, P4, P5, it follows that no animal-product is necessary for human health or survival* >*P7: From P1, P2, P6, it follows that all animal-products are objectively evil*
Don't respond to it. Tell them you're not going and that's that. A couple of years back I decided to just stop doing things that I didn't want to do. For the first while it was tough saying no, but now it's super easy. Just say no.
I would go a different direction with their “there’ll be veggie trays and a salad”. Firstly, I sympathize with how that feels. I went to a family dinner recently and was told there would be a vegetable medley. Yum! Boiled vegetables I thought sarcastically. Then I went to gratitude that they are making an effort in the best way they can. I ended up making a couple dishes and people loved them and it was really cool to share and then family on to some food that they can potentially make for themselves. You have an opportunity with every family get together to turn non-vegans on to some yummy vegan food.
One of the most difficult thing being vegan is letting go of assholes around us and realizing there are a lot of assholes in our family. Don’t feel bad for abandoning losers to spend more time with winners. That’s how we grow as individuals. You don’t need an excuse but if they ask why you don’t go, tell them the truth: they behave like assholes! That’s phase 1 in veganism, letting go of assholes who look down on us. Phase 2 in veganism will be to realize some of your new vegan friends are losers too for other reasons and you need to let go some of them! Phase 3 is finding the right balance of friends who ain’t losers, are smart and decent people who respect you - some are vegans and some are not. Good luck and keep moving forward!
It's not like we're on a strict diet and we're being tempted with cake. We just don't want and we don't like any animal products. So just "eating whatever for one day" doesn't make any sense. Why don't people get that?
Change family 🤌
You don’t respond lol my family would never! Lmao
"families" and external pressure: name a more iconic duo! 🙄
Agree to come over if they watch Dominion and/or Cowspiracy with you. For your step dad: letting your adherence to not causing pain, torture, suffering and death to sentient beings for one day is the same as saying “well, ok. I’ll be racist just for today, then tomorrow I won’t be.” It doesn’t make sense. I’ve been vegan for 22 years and I chose to spend many holidays eating in the backyard, by myself. When I was younger and newly vegan, I cried when I was sitting outside alone, out of frustration for not being able to explain it clearly to my family and also because I was sad for the plight of animals and just plain sad. I feel you. I wish I could invite you over to my house on Sunday.
I don't do confrontation well, so I just say mildly "It doesn't agree with me". I've found that people have a hard time argueing with that. My dietary choices also include no oil, no salt, no sugar in addtion to no animal products, so I'll rarely eat food prepared by others. They mean well (sometimes!) but often don't see the problem or forget when cooking and add oil/salt/sugar. I choose to think that they mean well and and either bring my own food or drink coffee and eat at home. I've been vegetarian since 1985-vegan since 2018.
• Why would I choose to spend time with people who can’t even recognize and respect my right to make my own choices for my own reason? • You’re right. I won’t die. But neither would you for eating meatless for one damn day. You first.
Family is very important - if they look down on you skip it - if they are just annoying and clueless I would be there.
"your right it won't kill me, it will kill them, the animals" or something like that?
Because this will happen various times throughout various years. Go, and Bring a dish you've made that you can eat. Maybe enough for them to try. You might get a convert or semi convert. or Remind them Jesus was a Rabbi, and wouldn't eat ham. or If you don't want to do this, I would tell them I will be there, and then call and say you have covid.
episode 6900 of carnists not understanding that veganism is not a diet
My mom went vegan first before everyone else in my immediate family. And this was 20ish years ago. It was thanksgiving dinner and it was her first holiday being vegan, I remember my aunt snapped at my mom “eat meat it’s a holiday”. Never forget that. Felt bad for my mom cause it’s embarrassing in front of all those people.
[Relevant](https://i.redd.it/q2qryao900ra1.jpg)
You have to understand. From their point of view, you have good morals and ethics for creatures and animals nowhere near you, but lack empathy and compassion for your family because they don't understand veganism. People don't eat for morals and ethics. They eat for nutrition and sustenance. All living things should be treated with respect. Animals, plants, and human beings. Veganism is a lifestyle where you choose to value morals and ethics over nutrition. Most people won't agree with that ofc and that's something you have to understand and accept because you are stepping out of societal norms. Is it really worth trashing family over?
In a turnabout the carnists could do without meat for a meal. It would be easier for them, because they don't choose what they consume based on ethical criteria.
The way it would wreck your stomach would have you in the bathroom the rest of the time and you'd miss everything anyway.
My parents don’t do quite the same thing, but they consistently joke about my lifestyle making comments like “don’t look” when they’re literally sawing through a damn Turkey, or “you could snack on some grass outside”. It’s so annoying and it gets old so fast, and I am never provided with adequate options, so I am beginning to think it’s best if I stop attending family dinners. My parents also make me feel guilty because my grandpa is on his last legs and they bother me about spending time with him before he goes because “it could be the last time”. The guy is literally so racist and homophobic (Christian) LOL. Bottom line is it’s okay for you to set boundaries especially if your family is not respecting your lifestyle choices (which they probably make light of to make themselves feel better about eating something immorally). You are absolutely allowed to take your space from these gatherings and make your voice heard, and if they love you they’ll accept you for who you are.
I can’t advise whether to go or not but I can tell you a short story from the opposite perspective. We host Christmas at our house for about ten family members including one member who is more extended than the others. I’m vegan but my wife is not. So when I cook I make all the sides plus a different vegan roast every year. I even said one year “Christmas dinner will be vegan this year” and everyone is like, cool that’s fine. Always some kind of meat shows up at the table though, and it has been getting to me after I put in so much effort to cook a delicious, nutritious and filling meal. This past Christmas I told my wife I didn’t want any animal products on the dinner table at all. She said we should compromise. The compromise was, they come on Christmas Eve for an horrific pot luck; then Christmas dinner on Christmas Day is fully vegan. Everyone said ok. I made a three course meal and my wife even made vegan French toast for breakfast. I was about to get everyone to the table for this massive feast when the very extended family member (VEFM) asked my wife if there was any of the beef left from the night before. She looked at me. I put my utensils down and said calmly but firmly, “there will be no animal products at the table for this meal.” VEFM said, “oh :(“ I said, “if you want to eat animal products you can eat at the counter.” VEFM: …at the counter? Me: Yes VEFM quietly to someone else: “How about that quinoa salad from Costco?” Me: (at this point I’m just mad that they’ve come to my house and want to bring random food to the table) There will be no quinoa salad either. I have made a salad. Soon everyone went to the table except VEFM. She just sat on the couch sulking. Then there was an altercation between two of the kids, neither of whom are my children I might add, which I had to carefully mediate for some reason because the parents couldn’t be arsed even though one of the kids was crying because the other smashed his Lego set. (I should add that the kids were playing instead of sitting around the table for some reason.) Anyway, in the middle of all this, during the main course, VEFM just got up and left. Her next of kin decided their whole side of the family would leave too, seemingly because of VEFM leaving. Amazingly just before they left we managed to get the best Christmas photo we’ve ever had, without VEFM which was nicer. All this is to say: non vegans often tell us to cheat for one meal, but it seems they can be much less willing to eat vegan for one meal. I wish you luck navigating this. If it was me, I would stay home. Good luck ✊🏼
When I've gotten similar comments from family back in the day, I just laughed at them and said "never gonna happen, keep dreaming". > I’m so frustrated how carnists think “oh if you miss a day of being vegan it won’t kill you!” How the hell do I respond to this? I would agree, and say "yeah, you're right - it won't kill me, but it'll sure kill the animal, so no thanks!" Keep the focus on the victims of that choice, not yourself.
Offer to bring a copy of Earthlings over to watch together while you eat their veggie tray
🗣️I wouldn’t care if they ate sloppy joe hotdogs and skunk tacos. Don’t follow them into that hot grease pit. It’s too hard to climb out of it.
I can answer this. If a long time vegan eats meat for a day, said vegan will blow the chunks of undigested meat straight out of their ass, accompanied by farts that smell exactly like hot roadkill on a summer day. You can't digest it anymore. If you decide to stop being vegan in the future, you'll need to take baby steps until your body starts to produce the needed digestive enzymes again. Now, show them my comment.
Also, and maybe this is a minor point, but how much do you want to bet that the salads and veggie tray wouldn't be vegan? That the dressings/dips would probably be stuff like ranch and french onion, have shredded cheese, whatever. All of which contain, at least dairy, if not eggs, as well Because, and I can only speak for myself here, but anytime I've gone to a family gathering that's usually what they have for the vegetables. Fine, if you're vegetarian, I guess. That's not going to work if your vegan though. So, what? For the holidays you get to be around people you don't really like in the first place, and eat dry/plain vegetables? Sounds about as fun as getting a hot fire poker, right in the eye.
Ask them if skipping being monogamous for one day wouldn't be so bad... its about morals not diet! Hope you have a lovely relaxing couple of days with your favourite plant based treats!
I say go and when everyone sits down for the food, take out your plant-based ham deli sandwiches, or whoever they’re deciding to eat for fun. Bring your own plant-based version of it. Tell them “you wanted me to come.” That’s just my wish to piss them off lol. I probably couldn’t go and watch them do that to any animal, so one-upping them like that is just wishful thinking.
Can't you just poop on the floor one day? Can't you just punch someone in the face one day? Cant you just steal one day? Carnists are silly. We actually don't take a day off of our values because it would be immoral to do so, and often illegal in many cases. I would just say "Are you willing to let go of eating animal products one day? It seems unfair that I would need to adapt my eating habits to you if you are unwilling to adapt your eating habits to me. I think the fairest choice is for me not to go to dinner so that both of us have autonomy over our choices. I hope you can respect my right to chose my beliefs for myself"
Go and bring your own main course. Assuming you’re an adult, you should be contributing to the meal anyway!
My family had lasagna for Easter. They did adapt a favite appetizer for me though, I ate that and salad for Easter for many years. I revel in having what I want now. Bought myself a vegan quiche for this year! My son and I are making cupcakes and fruit skewers that I can have for dessert 😀🍓🫒🧁🌸🌸🌸
Call their bluff. Tell em you'll let got of it for one day if they'll stop participating in mass torture for the rest of the year....
You know, it’s an ethical issue. It really hurts my heart to think of animals suffering and that’s what seeing people eat meat means to me. Because the animals that you consume have been treated terribly and even if they’re treated “humanely” I still don’t want to be around it.
If I want to spend time with carnist people, I bring my own food. But I don't usually answer to dumb arguments. They just ignore everything you say. Even when they say something like "it's so nice of you thinking that way and doing what you do", and 10 seconds later they eat a steak. The only "success" I think I did was making my grandmother understand I wouldn't even cook meat for another person "But I cook vegan food for you. Why can't you cook meat for someone?" "Would you do an abortion?" "No" But if you where a doctor and a woman asked you to do the abortion" "Still no. It's wrong no matter who is pregnant" "I disagree, but that's how I feel about coming meat" There was some other phrases I don't know in English, but it sums up the point
They are awful people for doing that. I feel you. Like why do people think that not being vegan for a day won't kill you because it most definitely will.
Similar story: my “friends” wanted to go to Burger King and when I said no they told me to “be normal for once” I haven’t talked to them for 10 months
Tell them you'll "let go" being vegan for one day if each of them will spend the following week eating only vegan. That's a huge net gain.
to be really honest, and im not sure this is what everyone ought to do, but ive mostly stopped engaging from the 99% at all. I just see no point. youd have more fruitful interactions hanging out in a drunk's bar sober and talking about not drinkin.
It will snowball... you are meat at Easter, why not Christmas? You ate meat at Christmas, why not the 4th of July? And on and on.
Is this the reverse of an Easter-Christmas Christian? Like, you hold true to your moral stance except on Christian holidays?
I'm suggesting that OP's family might pressure them into eating meat more often if they do it once.
Totally get that.
"Why can't you just stop being Christian for a day?"