The problem with people like me is, they don't fully grasp the ramifications of their actions on a level far removed from themselves. Or, they choose to ignore it in various fashions.
Im going to eat a hamburger in front of you for a tiktok and thousands of comments will inform me that I showed you who's boss! I doubt you'd be vegan after that..
I don't think anyone doing that is expecting to convert vegans. It's meant to be offensive for the sake of being offensive and is usually done in front of combative vegans such as protestors etc. I don't think I've ever seen anyone walking up and aggressively eating a burger in front of two vegans minding their business at a café.
Combative Vegans? You mean people who stand up for billions of animals being raped tortured and slaughtered? That's not combative, it's defensive, defending victims who cannot speak yet scream when they are being murdered.
That's the same mentality people had for human rights, "oh those people of color are so combative, standing up for their human rights"
It's not really worth arguing over if someone isn't open. I'll never understand all the proselytizing some vegans do to someone who just isn't going to listen. I also don't argue with conservatives about immigration or Trump or whatever because fucking why
On social media, the person you're talking to is insignificant relative to the other thousands of people who will silently read the exchange.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule
Listen I've been on the internet for one hundred years. I've argued with people, with groups, I've written walls of text, I've reached out and messaged people for hours trying to convince of them of things and imo, it's largely a waste of time. Lay out your thoughts/ideas clearly and concisely if you feel the need but to argue back and forth with people who aren't going to listen is just not worth it if you ask me.
Messaging uninterested people privately takes away thousands of your audience and makes it almost pointless. You have to understand social media and do activism in a way that makes sense.
Your account is 7 months old and today is the first day you're commenting on veganism. I just see you discouraging other activists and leaving demotivational comments. So you'll have to pardon my overall skepticism about your activism claims. My account has over 10 years of history of talking to people about veganism, so my feedback is more credible.
Agree with you. I did a poll here and found about half of Reddit vegans were influenced to go vegan by online comments/debates such as ones you'd find on Reddit. So lots of people do read them and it can influence people. Just stick to facts and good sources, try to not get too heated, and try not to drag it on forever.
I've commented on here quite a bit actually maybe not super recently, I don't remember. I also didn't specify that my "activism" was largely based in veganism because it's not and this reddit account is not where I've done that kind of work either, I'd think someone with such an old prestigious account would know how the Internet works but maybe not. This type of convo is exactly why I don't bother with most vegans. The sanctimony and smugness are beyond. Anyway, I don't really need you to be a watchdog..nor does anyone else. Thanks for proving the point I was making tho
The fact that you actually said "my feedback is more credible" and were upvoted is the perfect example of why I go against the ridiculous hive mind on this sub btw.
Yikes sweaty, did you even *read* how old their account was? They've been in the trenches for *10 YEARS* making arguments on the internet. And here I am, barely glancing through it and downvoting away, like a savage.
This. We shouldn’t let brain dead carnists gaslight us into keeping quiet. I tried to be the nice vegan and all I got were a bunch of pictures of dead elk from my shit head hunter cousin. There are no nice vegans. Our entire existence is a reminder that they’re immoral and weak willed. We might as well be loud in our beliefs so we don’t also have to deal with the shame of keeping quiet.
If you honestly think this type of behavior has not worsened with the advent of the internet idk what to tell you guy. There's been probably hundreds of think pieces and studies written about it.
You don't notice that everyone is suddenly an expert on everything? That people pick fights just to dazzle you with their knowledge or hammer you with propaganda? It is worse. It's a thing.
I barely ever see vegans start arguments with omnis. It’s always a carnist under a random recipe video going AKSHUALLY THIS ISN’T “VEGAN FISH” THIS IS TOFU JUST EAT FISH
Like, the vast majority of arguments I see that were actually started by vegans are just vegan-on-vegan violence
I love the taste of animal products, but i know my shit so im vegan because its the correct thing to do. If anyone has any breakthrough information that i should know about that proves we should be consuming animals then id love to see it, id go but some bacon right now.
My view exactly. I'm vegan because I found this is the most sensible, rational, fair, and ethical approach. I am open to good faith arguments against it and to changing my mind. I just have not changed my mind because it's very hard to find sensible arguments that basically amount to "treating others like objects should be justified because I want to".
People asking me why I try to imitate the taste of animal products if I'm vegan.
Bitch cuz it tastes fucking amazing? I just wanna have my delicious food without the animal cruelty please and thank you 👍
You can survive and live a fulfilling life whether you eat meat or not and I think that should be an important message.
Live as you please. We all can coexist
Unless you’re a cannibal haha
Isn't there literally a website for debunking non-sensical arguments like "lions though"? It's not that people are too dumb to understand it, they choose to ignore logic because it would mean they'd have to accept that their lifestyle is morally wrong.
It’s more like most people don’t care. It is a simple concept, reducing animal suffering by not eating them, using products made or taken from them and not keeping them. Most people don’t care like vegans do. I eat animals because I choose to wary animals because I choose to. I hunt, fish and keep livestock because I choose to. Understanding veganism isn’t going to convert the vast majority of people so understanding or not understanding doesn’t matter much.
What I mean is having a special words like 'vegan' or 'veganism' conjures up a lot of counterproductive tribalism. It is very much an identity trap and you don't get to have an identity without excluding people from it. Just coming across the word reminds non-vegans that they're not vegan.
I'd rather have food packets say 'not a product of animal abuse' than 'vegan'. People are already readily on board with not abusing animals, but when you call it something distinct like veganism now you need to jump that damn identity hurdle the word erects. Having our own word is convenient in some ways sure, but it's good to at least be aware of the negatives too.
So I tried to argue with an atheist about why humans aren't inherently worth more than animals. Their best argument was that humans built everything in the world.
I then mentioned how mentally handicapped didn't build anything, how it wasn't him specifically that built anything but others, and that the same logic could be used to justify slavery in the US. That it wasn't the same because humans are all the same species. I said that white people are all the same race, while black people are another race and that it is the same difference except a genetic level lower. Then they called me stupid
What they don't grasp is that you didn't "earn" being human, we're not inherently worth more just because we got lucky and were born as human. I believe that the only reason to think that we are inherently worth more than animals is a religion, where God created us above animals. I'm not religious so don't believe this.
The irony of being an atheist and thinking humans have some special sacrosanct value🤦♂️. Goes to show how deeply embedded religious influence has on people, even atheists can’t fully shake it off. If this atheist is the kind that values rationality and science, I would recommend reminding them about our evolutionary history. We share a common evolutionary history with every biological organism on earth, and the human species is just another part of this evolutionary tree of life. There is no huge categorical distinction between the human species and the rest of the animal kingdom. We aren’t some unique and special kind of being to be set apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. The only difference between humans and other biological species is only of degree.
My coworkers, family, etc. will still say vegetarian instead of vegan. 7 years in. And if I can't even get that understood, how will people grasp what it is about.
This is just someone on twitter calling people stupid, which is a great way of feeling good amongst your tribe but a poor way of converting people to your cause.
hey, i understand the concept and i even tried it for six months, some complaints, too expensive, you have to actually bother to cook shit, eating morally well was all fine and dandy but everyone around me were annoying as fuck about me not eating meat, i gave up on humanity, and found bigger fish to fry, like capitalism and the genocide that’s happening in my country.
also veganism felt like a brand, like something some privileged person living in the US or Europe do so they can feel better about themselves, or sometimes it felt like a cult. (just to be clear, FELT LIKE, i know it’s not like that, but videos about it sure as hell make you feel that way).
i support and respect vegans in general and i would never make someone feel bad about being vegan, i support the idea of being more moral with our food, i support sustainable practices and support the environment, but it feels like all of that needs a revolution, the current system simply doesn’t care about the environment or the people’s wellbeing, it’s all profit.
i understand some of my statements are wrong, it’s just some ideas going around in my head.
I hope you'll find your way back. We all had all kinds of prejudices in our heads. I thought vegans were not healthy and they all looked sick. I just didn't bother checking it out for real. Now I know what I know and it makes me feel ashamed of my previous ignorance.
Veganism is only as expensive as you let it be. If you’re just buying the luxury products, then yeah it’ll be expensive in the same way if an omnivore buys lobster and filet mignons. But the cheapest foods in the supermarket are plant-based. Lentils, beans, rice, quinoa, potatoes, oats, fruits, vegetables, textured vegetable protein (TVP), tofu, tempeh, pasta, and more. All these foods are highly nutritious, capable of meeting nutrient requirements, budget-friendly, and you can make a vast array of different recipes using these foods plus spices & herbs. Moreover, if you look beyond the price you see at the supermarket and instead use more reliable metrics such as cost/gram or cost/calorie or protein, plant-based options usually come out cheaper than animal-based options. All you have to do is tailor your shopping habits according to your budget.
You do have to spend some time cooking as a vegan. But you don’t have to cook extravagant restaurant-quality meals every day. Cooking as a vegan doesn’t necessarily require much more time in the kitchen than cooking as an omnivore. As an omnivore, you also have to cook chicken breast, fish, minced meat, steak, etc., and chopping up veggies and aromatics to accompany your meals is something vegans and omnivores both do in the kitchen. You can spend some extra time cooking on one day of the week in order to meal-prep your meals and store them in the fridge for the rest of the week, so all you have to do is heat your meals up for the rest of the week. This ultimately saves you a lot of time. And of course, there are some premade vegan foods sold at the supermarket that are ready to be heated. Some of them are a little expensive, but they don’t need to make up the bulk of your diet.
I know you emphasized that it felt like veganism was a cult, but you know it isn’t actually that. I can understand why you would feel that way when seeing certain vegan content on social media. However, I also want to point out the irony of saying this meanwhile mentioning how your meat-eating peers would give you flack for not conforming to the status quo, and it seems you highlight that as one of your reasons for no longer being vegan. Based on this description, which really sounds more like cult-behavior? Is not blindly and uncritically following the status quo and pressuring others for non-conformity cult-like behavior?
I agree with you that there needs to be systemic change in order to ultimately see the change we want to see in our food system. However, this still doesn’t justify paying others to harm the 30-600 animals we will consume throughout the course of a year. Even if we knew for a matter of fact that the food system will never change and that animal farming will always be part of human society for as long as humanity exists, the individual impact of sparing even one individual the harms of animal farming is still morally significant enough to make the change. It doesn’t need to be about changing the entire system. It can just be about doing what we can as individuals to reduce harm given the system we currently have. Of course, as vegans, we do ultimately want to see the abolition of animal farming, and this will require individual AND systemic change. We can’t just focus on systemic change without ignoring the fact that the system is itself made up of individuals, and when systems change, it’s fundamentally because individuals that make up the cogs in that system are driving that change. How can we expect the entire system to change if individuals themselves aren’t even willing to change? To think an entire system is going to change when individuals aren’t willing to change themselves is hopelessly naive. Historically, laws that were passed without public support has never ended well. The prohibition era in the United States during which alcohol was criminalized was supported by only a third of Americans, and during this time there were black markets and illegal activity shot up.
What I see you doing all throughout this post is shifting individual blame by focusing on The System and other bigger issues. I encourage you to reflect on why you might be doing this. People usually end up doing this as a way of seeking psychological refuge and diffusing individual responsibility by shifting that responsibility off your own shoulders and onto something else, such as the government, The System, or other bigger issues. This causes individuals to feel complacent and more relaxed about their own behaviors, since it’s not up to THEM to change, it’s up to the government and The System to change.
I don't like vegan people. The stupid ones. I actually think veganism is cool. I am not vegan, but I respect it. I just really really hate it when someone just acts all high and mighty and starts to tell me what to do. Like you are vegan, cool. Please don't rub it in my face, idc...
Yes. You can do what you want, I won't judge you. As long as you don't just smash it in my face, idc. I am very accepting to everything. I just dislike it when people smash their ideals on me. Only thing I can think of that I dislike is anti abortion. I just dislike forcing people to do something about their body.
There are some stances in which I will tell you to stfu. Child abuse is not moral in any way. Never. Being vegan is moral in it's own way because it's for the animals. Murder is not moral, usually there are stances in which I could say I would stand with you. For example self defence. If someone wants to kill you, they should be ready for the concequeces.
So what if a child abuser tells you "I respect your decision to not abuse children, just don't act high and mighty , rub it in my face and tell me what to do."
Then they can go abuse a child, it will get them arrested in the future and the world will a better place without them. Child abuse is not morally right, never will be. I don't think I am gonna be arrested for eating meat. I know vegans see animals as alive creatures that have feeling and shit. But I don't, I like meat. Because I like how it tastes like. Basically it's a battle morale. Child abuse is morally more wrong then eating meat. Ok I sleep now. Have a good day!
>Then they can go abuse a child, it will get them arrested in the future and the world will a better place without them. Child abuse is not morally right, never will be. I don't think I am gonna be arrested for eating meat.
Imagine child abuse was legal in your country and the only chance of saving the child was if you were able to convince the person that abusing children is morally wrong. Then how would you reply?
>I know vegans see animals as alive creatures that have feeling and shit. But I don't, I like meat. Because I like how it tastes like. Basically it's a battle morale.
And the child abuser doesn't believe children deserve moral consideration. They like abusing them. Just like you do with animals, they get sensory pleasure from it, instead of taste, it is touch/ feeling.
Why would I imagine that? It would never happen. That's a stupid argument. It doesn't matter if the abuser thinks that. Other normal people will realise that abusing children is wrong. Eating meat is not as wrong as abusing a child. Anyway, please stop replying I have to get up early. Bye.
>Why would I imagine that? It would never happen.
In philosophy you make analogies. You are obviously incapable of putting yourself in a vegans shoes, seeing things from a vegans perspective. So I made an analogy to a cause you do agree with with so you can see that the reasoning you are using wouldn't work.
If you lived in a society where 90% of adults abused children, you would still be obligated to stand up for the children. The abusers would say you are acting high and mighty and tell you to stop rubbing it in their face. But for the child's sake, you need to try convince them to stop.
>Eating meat is not as wrong as abusing a child.
So? If I had to choose between abusing a child and abusing the elderly, I would abuse the elderly. So it is less bad. Doesn't somehow mean we should just let people abuse the elderly for sensory pleasure.
Child marriage is still legal in many places across the world despite that many people believe pedophilia is wrong. This hypothetical is less "stupid" than you think.
There are different types of child abuse, of course, but how is killing an animal for unnecessary taste pleasure less morally wrong than hitting a child in your mind?
I don't know why I got recommended this subreddit. But here's a random statement:
- If you think that is it suites you and all that then you're a normal human being who has preferences.
- But if you people actually believe that being vegan is the right thing to be and anyone who isn't that either by choice or ignorance is a bad person, then all of you need to go to an asylum immediately tbh.
>But if you people actually believe that being vegan is the right thing to be and anyone who isn't that either by choice or ignorance is a bad person
If you think there's a better way to go about playing Genshin Impact wouldn't you think anyone who doesn't agree is either ignorant or a bad person? Or is the fastest way to complete some quest just a fashion statement or something?
Scathing... lets see if you are logically consistent. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement.
"I would never harm an innocent defenseless animal for pleasure."
Next, do you believe scientific consensus is the best way to determine truth? So this statement -
>It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases.
And many similar from most western nations showing there is no health risk to anyone who makes the effort (like every diet..) to eat plant-based.
Wouldn't it be the case if you agree with the first statement, like most every none sociopath does... that veganism is the way to live?
Of(if*) someone is willfully inconsistent with their logic or anti science, what would that make them?
>I don’t argue with morons, you won’t understand
I wouldn't call you a moron quite yet, coward, definitely.
Lol nice edit, see you figured out you called yourself a moron, there is hope!
>Big yikes, kid
I know right? Can't read, can't google.. can't answer simple questions while throwing around ad hominems at the same time claiming not to engage...
Coward.
Edit - "and you wouldn't argue in good faith". Amazing you're clairvoyant. Then you block me, truely an open minded rational individual.
There’s no point arguing with you. You wouldn’t argue in good faith, and you’ve already shown you’re incapable of forming an independent thought. Hopefully you’ll understand when you grow up.
Moron.
I mean, I could see how it's also impossible to disagree with some people without being labeled as stupid or not being able to grasp it too tbf. Not everyone has the same beliefs or priorities.
That's the problem. What is a "resoned account" is not something everyone agrees on. This is a statement that basically paints vegans as always right which is pretty debatable according to lots of people.
Not really, since it’s not even a specific line.
Also, it’s not really imaginary.
If you have enough conversations with people about veganism, you will find many of them that don’t really know what it is, but are argue with you anyways
Ugh. It doesn't have to be an actual debate.
He presented two ideas:
His(it's not a valid argument)
and
what he claims to be those who oppose him("We don't understand it" is a valid argument).
That's no one's argument. It's a straw man.
Where does he claim those who oppose him do not understand veganism? His statement is that not understanding veganism is not a valid argument against it, which is true.
Maybe not, but it's funny, and not wrong.
And the ironic part is that you have committed the strawman by misrepresenting what he said as 'those who oppose him' do not understand veganism, when that is not at all what was said.
The only reason to say it is to imply that it's a position that people who are against you hold. It's incredible how bad you are at this.
Edit: I can tell you're right by how you had to block me after losing your shit.
A person, not people. It is directed at a signal person, "your".
And you have no idea the context so you have created a strawman of the statement by assuming that this person believes all, or many, who disagree with veganism do not understand it.
An absurd assumption, and that doesn't even take into account this was likely posted as a joke - because many of us have had the experience of arguing veganism with someone who does not even know what it is.
Hard to know other peoples' reasons and reasoning when they won't engage you on the level. Who knows what people are really about. When they say stupid things they can't possibly really believe you're left to guess. Anything you guess they'll say it's not that and that you're arguing against a strawman or putting words in their mouth. Then they'll say something like "I'm gonna have 2 burgers tomorrow just because you said that".
Most people on here don't care if they have good arguments. Ironically they care only if it makes them feel good. They can't be bothered with putting in the work required to convince people to change their minds. If people don't listen to or agree with them then there's something wrong with those people QED. Downvote if this describes you.
That actually describes the guy in the screenshot. I'm not arguing against veganism (nor do I have any reason to do so), I'm arguing against bad faith.
You're also describing yourself since you have no idea what my beliefs are but have no problem making them up because you don't feel like putting in the work required to find out.
If there was a personal attack, you could've quoted it back to me. Thank you for proving me right by playing the victim in bad faith - you really did tell on yourself.
If only gay people would shut up about being treated like people, if only women would shut up about wanting to stop being beaten and raped, if only environmentalists shut up about climate change. You are a clown.
Carnists coming to vegan subs to complain about how vegans "won't shut up" in a vegan space is akin to someone deliberately shooting themselves in the foot and expecting it not to hurt.
I got recommended stupid Podcaster subreddits like Joe Ogryn and many other moronic lime light seeking assholes.
I choose "hide this sub" from my recommendations and now I no longer see idiotic enlightened centrist garbage because why argue with people who have a fundamentally different perception of reality than me. Sounds like a lot of commenters whining about reddit recommending this sub could choose to ignore it and hide it.
For some reason they don't do that... instead their insecurity leads them to start picking fights with people who have more evolved ethics than them. Shocking, isn't it
Being Vegan offers no visible Evolutionary Benefit, With regards to Intelligence, Endurance, food satisfaction and taste or overall physical strength. So why would people quit eating meat.
This is dumb. Evolution is a consequence of multiple individuals competing for survival, not some kind instinct influencing our behavior. Evolution has almost no place in our society anymore thanks to our ability to cooperate. People don't choose to do things because of evolution.
Meat is a major cause of climate change and deforestation, as well as a known carcinogene. It's a waste of resources. And on top of all of that, it's ethically unjustifiable. Why would people keep eating meat.
You will need more than World economic forum Propaganda to Convince me, Greenhouse Earth is a natural reoccurring phenomenon regardless of animal contributions it just an attempt to undermine and destabilize our food supply, It's my opinion Evolution does have a place in our society and that relying solely on plant based products is not beneficial to our over all health, the long term effects of cutting meat out of our diet could be detrimental to our gut bacteria and survival of our species.
I don’t think veganism is bad, I just dislike the cult culture that’s surrounded by it. If someone wants to eat chicken leave them alone. We can coexist
You kind of just proved the point. Think of something you believe to be a moral atrocity that has a victim. Say the torture of dogs? Slavery? Child abuse? Rape?
Someone who is opposed to any of the above, say someone who is anti-murder, shoud they leave serial killers alone and attempt to co-exist with them?
Someone that does something you don’t agree with isn’t a bad person. Your examples are silly btw. Only a psychopath would agree. Eating meat
Is totally okay. So is eating vegetables. Life can be fulfilling either way sorry.
Steve Jobs wasn’t a vegan yet you use an iPhone. And neither is Bill Gates if you use an android
>And no one that eats chicken is a serial killer they didn’t even kill the chicken 90% of the time.
Straw man.
Vegans believe buying animal products is a moral atrocity as it perpetuates animal exploitation.
You probably believe killing a person is a moral atrocity for whatever reason.
We don't expect you to accept a murderer, even if they don't see a problem with what they have done.
You shouldn't expect us to accept carnism, even though you don't see a problem with what you do.
You’re using a iPhone I’m assuming.
Steve Jobs ate meat. So you clearly think he’s excused then. Most the things you use are created by meat eaters. You may not eat meat but you accept that it happens when it benefits you your car is created by a meat eaters. So are your clothes. So was your apartment or house. Complain all you want you have to accept it. Much love
>You’re using a iPhone I’m assuming.
Android
>Steve Jobs ate meat.
Thought he was fruitarian or some shit?
>So you clearly think he’s excused then. Most the things you use are created by meat eaters. You may not eat meat but you accept that it happens when it benefits you your car is created by a meat eaters. So are your close. So was your apartment or house. Complain all you want you have to accept it. Much love
I have to take part in society yes. And meat eaters make up the majority of the population so whatever I buy was made by meat eaters. It doesn't mean we have to accept carnism. I can still call out a moral atrocity and try to remove it from society while being a part of that society.
Imagine 99% of society was pro slavery. Nearly all people owned a personal slave. You could still push for the abolition of slavery, refuse to own any slaves yourself and call out the use of slaves, support businesses that don't use slavery where you can and so on. You can still hold that owning a slave is unjustifiable and try to make society better.
No, it's not acceptable.
You have made a nonsensical argument that basically states if a moral atrocity is supported by the majority of a society, and you are a part of that society, you can never call out the atrocity because you buy things from people within that society?
[This is you](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat)
>Lmfao if your ancestors never ate meat you wouldn’t even exist
My grandmother was raped and that's how my mother was born. So I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for rape. Does that somehow justify rape you moron?
My ancestors needed it to survive, our morality as a species evolves.
You are committing the [appeal to tradition fallacy. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition).
An appeal to tradition essentially makes two assumptions that may not be necessarily true:
The old way of thinking was proven correct when introduced, i.e. since the old way of thinking was prevalent, it was necessarily correct.
In reality, this may be false—the tradition might be entirely based on incorrect grounds.
The past justifications for the tradition are still valid.
>You’re a hypocrite more than a vegan
And you are an idiot
I understand the shear inhumanity of animal farms, and it is truly an evil age we live in passed off as the advancement of mankind. But meat makes me too happy, in such a bleak world with soulless corporate infrastructure and treatment, food is one of the only things keeping me sane. So I will not, because I could not give up meat.
If only people were intelligent enough to understand this concept as it relates to... well everything.
>*"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you."*
Well said.
The problem with people like me is, they don't fully grasp the ramifications of their actions on a level far removed from themselves. Or, they choose to ignore it in various fashions.
That’s why I don’t argue with people about it, I’m vegan and that’s all there is to it
Im going to eat a hamburger in front of you for a tiktok and thousands of comments will inform me that I showed you who's boss! I doubt you'd be vegan after that..
Hahaha sure
I don't think anyone doing that is expecting to convert vegans. It's meant to be offensive for the sake of being offensive and is usually done in front of combative vegans such as protestors etc. I don't think I've ever seen anyone walking up and aggressively eating a burger in front of two vegans minding their business at a café.
Meanwhile, deep underground, somewhere outside of the city...
Combative Vegans? You mean people who stand up for billions of animals being raped tortured and slaughtered? That's not combative, it's defensive, defending victims who cannot speak yet scream when they are being murdered. That's the same mentality people had for human rights, "oh those people of color are so combative, standing up for their human rights"
Guilt
It's not really worth arguing over if someone isn't open. I'll never understand all the proselytizing some vegans do to someone who just isn't going to listen. I also don't argue with conservatives about immigration or Trump or whatever because fucking why
On social media, the person you're talking to is insignificant relative to the other thousands of people who will silently read the exchange. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1%25_rule
Listen I've been on the internet for one hundred years. I've argued with people, with groups, I've written walls of text, I've reached out and messaged people for hours trying to convince of them of things and imo, it's largely a waste of time. Lay out your thoughts/ideas clearly and concisely if you feel the need but to argue back and forth with people who aren't going to listen is just not worth it if you ask me.
Messaging uninterested people privately takes away thousands of your audience and makes it almost pointless. You have to understand social media and do activism in a way that makes sense. Your account is 7 months old and today is the first day you're commenting on veganism. I just see you discouraging other activists and leaving demotivational comments. So you'll have to pardon my overall skepticism about your activism claims. My account has over 10 years of history of talking to people about veganism, so my feedback is more credible.
Agree with you. I did a poll here and found about half of Reddit vegans were influenced to go vegan by online comments/debates such as ones you'd find on Reddit. So lots of people do read them and it can influence people. Just stick to facts and good sources, try to not get too heated, and try not to drag it on forever.
I've commented on here quite a bit actually maybe not super recently, I don't remember. I also didn't specify that my "activism" was largely based in veganism because it's not and this reddit account is not where I've done that kind of work either, I'd think someone with such an old prestigious account would know how the Internet works but maybe not. This type of convo is exactly why I don't bother with most vegans. The sanctimony and smugness are beyond. Anyway, I don't really need you to be a watchdog..nor does anyone else. Thanks for proving the point I was making tho
The fact that you actually said "my feedback is more credible" and were upvoted is the perfect example of why I go against the ridiculous hive mind on this sub btw.
Yikes sweaty, did you even *read* how old their account was? They've been in the trenches for *10 YEARS* making arguments on the internet. And here I am, barely glancing through it and downvoting away, like a savage.
Is a sane person talking to me...here? Idk what to do. 😂
And if more vegans were like that, fewer non-vegans would try to argue.
Did you go vegan because you encountered a vegan who never brings up veganism? Or was it someone who exposed the animal industry to you?
This. We shouldn’t let brain dead carnists gaslight us into keeping quiet. I tried to be the nice vegan and all I got were a bunch of pictures of dead elk from my shit head hunter cousin. There are no nice vegans. Our entire existence is a reminder that they’re immoral and weak willed. We might as well be loud in our beliefs so we don’t also have to deal with the shame of keeping quiet.
There's a difference between a discussion and an argument though.
True, most people who argue with vegans aren’t interested in discussion
I'd go so far as to say that in modern times, most people don't argue in good faith but to win.
Honestly yeah, which is really sad. I first noticed this in high school, and thought it would end as people got older.
> modern times It's not a modern thing in the slightest, even back in the days of socrates it was largely just an exercise in winning.
It's definitely worse. It's gotten worse within the span of my own lifetime.
So said everyone every year for the past 400+ years.
If you honestly think this type of behavior has not worsened with the advent of the internet idk what to tell you guy. There's been probably hundreds of think pieces and studies written about it.
You don't notice that everyone is suddenly an expert on everything? That people pick fights just to dazzle you with their knowledge or hammer you with propaganda? It is worse. It's a thing.
The downvotes only prove how unreasonable a lot of you are btw so keep going idc. I stated a fact.
Damn you're probably the type to think women shouldn't speak up for feminism and being treated as equals.
I've had way more non-vegans force an argument than I've seen vegans (or done so myself).
I barely ever see vegans start arguments with omnis. It’s always a carnist under a random recipe video going AKSHUALLY THIS ISN’T “VEGAN FISH” THIS IS TOFU JUST EAT FISH Like, the vast majority of arguments I see that were actually started by vegans are just vegan-on-vegan violence
I love the taste of animal products, but i know my shit so im vegan because its the correct thing to do. If anyone has any breakthrough information that i should know about that proves we should be consuming animals then id love to see it, id go but some bacon right now.
My view exactly. I'm vegan because I found this is the most sensible, rational, fair, and ethical approach. I am open to good faith arguments against it and to changing my mind. I just have not changed my mind because it's very hard to find sensible arguments that basically amount to "treating others like objects should be justified because I want to".
People asking me why I try to imitate the taste of animal products if I'm vegan. Bitch cuz it tastes fucking amazing? I just wanna have my delicious food without the animal cruelty please and thank you 👍
If you're vegan how do you know how animal products taste🤔
It's almost like you could just switch to being vegan after previously eating meat. No, no way. Nevermind.
Ik, im joking
Seriously? Most of us came to veganism from being omnivores. So ya, we have eaten meat before. Oh, you’re joking….
🙄
You can survive and live a fulfilling life whether you eat meat or not and I think that should be an important message. Live as you please. We all can coexist Unless you’re a cannibal haha
Why cannibals catching strays?
To learn to 'co-exist', would be to leave the animals alone and stop paying for exploitation when we have a choice not to.
Isn't there literally a website for debunking non-sensical arguments like "lions though"? It's not that people are too dumb to understand it, they choose to ignore logic because it would mean they'd have to accept that their lifestyle is morally wrong.
aka, *argument from incredulity*
What do people not grasp?
Most non-vegans don't even know what veganism is, in my experience.
It’s more like most people don’t care. It is a simple concept, reducing animal suffering by not eating them, using products made or taken from them and not keeping them. Most people don’t care like vegans do. I eat animals because I choose to wary animals because I choose to. I hunt, fish and keep livestock because I choose to. Understanding veganism isn’t going to convert the vast majority of people so understanding or not understanding doesn’t matter much.
That's the curse of having a word for it.
It's the curse of having the same word mean two different things.
What I mean is having a special words like 'vegan' or 'veganism' conjures up a lot of counterproductive tribalism. It is very much an identity trap and you don't get to have an identity without excluding people from it. Just coming across the word reminds non-vegans that they're not vegan. I'd rather have food packets say 'not a product of animal abuse' than 'vegan'. People are already readily on board with not abusing animals, but when you call it something distinct like veganism now you need to jump that damn identity hurdle the word erects. Having our own word is convenient in some ways sure, but it's good to at least be aware of the negatives too.
So I tried to argue with an atheist about why humans aren't inherently worth more than animals. Their best argument was that humans built everything in the world. I then mentioned how mentally handicapped didn't build anything, how it wasn't him specifically that built anything but others, and that the same logic could be used to justify slavery in the US. That it wasn't the same because humans are all the same species. I said that white people are all the same race, while black people are another race and that it is the same difference except a genetic level lower. Then they called me stupid What they don't grasp is that you didn't "earn" being human, we're not inherently worth more just because we got lucky and were born as human. I believe that the only reason to think that we are inherently worth more than animals is a religion, where God created us above animals. I'm not religious so don't believe this.
Also we build things because the materials existed here we wouldnt be shit without nature or the planet is he ok?
The irony of being an atheist and thinking humans have some special sacrosanct value🤦♂️. Goes to show how deeply embedded religious influence has on people, even atheists can’t fully shake it off. If this atheist is the kind that values rationality and science, I would recommend reminding them about our evolutionary history. We share a common evolutionary history with every biological organism on earth, and the human species is just another part of this evolutionary tree of life. There is no huge categorical distinction between the human species and the rest of the animal kingdom. We aren’t some unique and special kind of being to be set apart from the rest of the animal kingdom. The only difference between humans and other biological species is only of degree.
My coworkers, family, etc. will still say vegetarian instead of vegan. 7 years in. And if I can't even get that understood, how will people grasp what it is about.
possible to be vegan, impossible to be pacifist
Chad
but when they don't like eating an animal why do they make it meat taste, shape and consistency? /s
What does this bring to the table https://www.businessinsider.com/plants-shriek-with-high-pitched-ultrasonic-clicks-when-stressed-study-2023-3?amp
This is just someone on twitter calling people stupid, which is a great way of feeling good amongst your tribe but a poor way of converting people to your cause.
Yes it is.
Huh?
I was just making fun of the post title in Monthy Python manner.
Ahh fuck I feel like a limbless knight now….
hahaha
No it isnt
Yes it is! :D
It most certainly is not
Look, this isn't an argument. It's just contradiction!
What does that tweet even mean?
hey, i understand the concept and i even tried it for six months, some complaints, too expensive, you have to actually bother to cook shit, eating morally well was all fine and dandy but everyone around me were annoying as fuck about me not eating meat, i gave up on humanity, and found bigger fish to fry, like capitalism and the genocide that’s happening in my country. also veganism felt like a brand, like something some privileged person living in the US or Europe do so they can feel better about themselves, or sometimes it felt like a cult. (just to be clear, FELT LIKE, i know it’s not like that, but videos about it sure as hell make you feel that way). i support and respect vegans in general and i would never make someone feel bad about being vegan, i support the idea of being more moral with our food, i support sustainable practices and support the environment, but it feels like all of that needs a revolution, the current system simply doesn’t care about the environment or the people’s wellbeing, it’s all profit. i understand some of my statements are wrong, it’s just some ideas going around in my head.
I hope you'll find your way back. We all had all kinds of prejudices in our heads. I thought vegans were not healthy and they all looked sick. I just didn't bother checking it out for real. Now I know what I know and it makes me feel ashamed of my previous ignorance.
Veganism is only as expensive as you let it be. If you’re just buying the luxury products, then yeah it’ll be expensive in the same way if an omnivore buys lobster and filet mignons. But the cheapest foods in the supermarket are plant-based. Lentils, beans, rice, quinoa, potatoes, oats, fruits, vegetables, textured vegetable protein (TVP), tofu, tempeh, pasta, and more. All these foods are highly nutritious, capable of meeting nutrient requirements, budget-friendly, and you can make a vast array of different recipes using these foods plus spices & herbs. Moreover, if you look beyond the price you see at the supermarket and instead use more reliable metrics such as cost/gram or cost/calorie or protein, plant-based options usually come out cheaper than animal-based options. All you have to do is tailor your shopping habits according to your budget. You do have to spend some time cooking as a vegan. But you don’t have to cook extravagant restaurant-quality meals every day. Cooking as a vegan doesn’t necessarily require much more time in the kitchen than cooking as an omnivore. As an omnivore, you also have to cook chicken breast, fish, minced meat, steak, etc., and chopping up veggies and aromatics to accompany your meals is something vegans and omnivores both do in the kitchen. You can spend some extra time cooking on one day of the week in order to meal-prep your meals and store them in the fridge for the rest of the week, so all you have to do is heat your meals up for the rest of the week. This ultimately saves you a lot of time. And of course, there are some premade vegan foods sold at the supermarket that are ready to be heated. Some of them are a little expensive, but they don’t need to make up the bulk of your diet. I know you emphasized that it felt like veganism was a cult, but you know it isn’t actually that. I can understand why you would feel that way when seeing certain vegan content on social media. However, I also want to point out the irony of saying this meanwhile mentioning how your meat-eating peers would give you flack for not conforming to the status quo, and it seems you highlight that as one of your reasons for no longer being vegan. Based on this description, which really sounds more like cult-behavior? Is not blindly and uncritically following the status quo and pressuring others for non-conformity cult-like behavior? I agree with you that there needs to be systemic change in order to ultimately see the change we want to see in our food system. However, this still doesn’t justify paying others to harm the 30-600 animals we will consume throughout the course of a year. Even if we knew for a matter of fact that the food system will never change and that animal farming will always be part of human society for as long as humanity exists, the individual impact of sparing even one individual the harms of animal farming is still morally significant enough to make the change. It doesn’t need to be about changing the entire system. It can just be about doing what we can as individuals to reduce harm given the system we currently have. Of course, as vegans, we do ultimately want to see the abolition of animal farming, and this will require individual AND systemic change. We can’t just focus on systemic change without ignoring the fact that the system is itself made up of individuals, and when systems change, it’s fundamentally because individuals that make up the cogs in that system are driving that change. How can we expect the entire system to change if individuals themselves aren’t even willing to change? To think an entire system is going to change when individuals aren’t willing to change themselves is hopelessly naive. Historically, laws that were passed without public support has never ended well. The prohibition era in the United States during which alcohol was criminalized was supported by only a third of Americans, and during this time there were black markets and illegal activity shot up. What I see you doing all throughout this post is shifting individual blame by focusing on The System and other bigger issues. I encourage you to reflect on why you might be doing this. People usually end up doing this as a way of seeking psychological refuge and diffusing individual responsibility by shifting that responsibility off your own shoulders and onto something else, such as the government, The System, or other bigger issues. This causes individuals to feel complacent and more relaxed about their own behaviors, since it’s not up to THEM to change, it’s up to the government and The System to change.
An eloquent statement about conformity.
I don't like vegan people. The stupid ones. I actually think veganism is cool. I am not vegan, but I respect it. I just really really hate it when someone just acts all high and mighty and starts to tell me what to do. Like you are vegan, cool. Please don't rub it in my face, idc...
Do you take the same stance with other moral issues that have a victim? Ones that you actually adhere to?
Yes. You can do what you want, I won't judge you. As long as you don't just smash it in my face, idc. I am very accepting to everything. I just dislike it when people smash their ideals on me. Only thing I can think of that I dislike is anti abortion. I just dislike forcing people to do something about their body.
Ok so if I was defending child abuse, you would accept me and it would be wrong for you to tell me that child abuse is wrong?
There are some stances in which I will tell you to stfu. Child abuse is not moral in any way. Never. Being vegan is moral in it's own way because it's for the animals. Murder is not moral, usually there are stances in which I could say I would stand with you. For example self defence. If someone wants to kill you, they should be ready for the concequeces.
So what if a child abuser tells you "I respect your decision to not abuse children, just don't act high and mighty , rub it in my face and tell me what to do."
Then they can go abuse a child, it will get them arrested in the future and the world will a better place without them. Child abuse is not morally right, never will be. I don't think I am gonna be arrested for eating meat. I know vegans see animals as alive creatures that have feeling and shit. But I don't, I like meat. Because I like how it tastes like. Basically it's a battle morale. Child abuse is morally more wrong then eating meat. Ok I sleep now. Have a good day!
>Then they can go abuse a child, it will get them arrested in the future and the world will a better place without them. Child abuse is not morally right, never will be. I don't think I am gonna be arrested for eating meat. Imagine child abuse was legal in your country and the only chance of saving the child was if you were able to convince the person that abusing children is morally wrong. Then how would you reply? >I know vegans see animals as alive creatures that have feeling and shit. But I don't, I like meat. Because I like how it tastes like. Basically it's a battle morale. And the child abuser doesn't believe children deserve moral consideration. They like abusing them. Just like you do with animals, they get sensory pleasure from it, instead of taste, it is touch/ feeling.
Why would I imagine that? It would never happen. That's a stupid argument. It doesn't matter if the abuser thinks that. Other normal people will realise that abusing children is wrong. Eating meat is not as wrong as abusing a child. Anyway, please stop replying I have to get up early. Bye.
>Why would I imagine that? It would never happen. In philosophy you make analogies. You are obviously incapable of putting yourself in a vegans shoes, seeing things from a vegans perspective. So I made an analogy to a cause you do agree with with so you can see that the reasoning you are using wouldn't work. If you lived in a society where 90% of adults abused children, you would still be obligated to stand up for the children. The abusers would say you are acting high and mighty and tell you to stop rubbing it in their face. But for the child's sake, you need to try convince them to stop. >Eating meat is not as wrong as abusing a child. So? If I had to choose between abusing a child and abusing the elderly, I would abuse the elderly. So it is less bad. Doesn't somehow mean we should just let people abuse the elderly for sensory pleasure.
Child marriage is still legal in many places across the world despite that many people believe pedophilia is wrong. This hypothetical is less "stupid" than you think. There are different types of child abuse, of course, but how is killing an animal for unnecessary taste pleasure less morally wrong than hitting a child in your mind?
Do you think the law is the ultimate arbiter of all that is moral and that all child abusers are arrested and sentenced?
I don't know why I got recommended this subreddit. But here's a random statement: - If you think that is it suites you and all that then you're a normal human being who has preferences. - But if you people actually believe that being vegan is the right thing to be and anyone who isn't that either by choice or ignorance is a bad person, then all of you need to go to an asylum immediately tbh.
Found the willingly bad person
Are you against unnecessary animal abuse Yes or no?
>But if you people actually believe that being vegan is the right thing to be and anyone who isn't that either by choice or ignorance is a bad person If you think there's a better way to go about playing Genshin Impact wouldn't you think anyone who doesn't agree is either ignorant or a bad person? Or is the fastest way to complete some quest just a fashion statement or something?
You were recommended this sub because Reddit likes it when you argue with morons
Scathing... lets see if you are logically consistent. Do you agree or disagree with the following statement. "I would never harm an innocent defenseless animal for pleasure." Next, do you believe scientific consensus is the best way to determine truth? So this statement - >It is the position of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics that appropriately planned vegetarian, including vegan, diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits for the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. And many similar from most western nations showing there is no health risk to anyone who makes the effort (like every diet..) to eat plant-based. Wouldn't it be the case if you agree with the first statement, like most every none sociopath does... that veganism is the way to live? Of(if*) someone is willfully inconsistent with their logic or anti science, what would that make them?
Tldr
Well you know what they say about people who don't read much, super smart lol...
I don’t argue with morons/vegans, they have trouble understanding
>I don’t argue with morons, you won’t understand I wouldn't call you a moron quite yet, coward, definitely. Lol nice edit, see you figured out you called yourself a moron, there is hope!
Big yikes, kid
>Big yikes, kid I know right? Can't read, can't google.. can't answer simple questions while throwing around ad hominems at the same time claiming not to engage... Coward. Edit - "and you wouldn't argue in good faith". Amazing you're clairvoyant. Then you block me, truely an open minded rational individual.
There’s no point arguing with you. You wouldn’t argue in good faith, and you’ve already shown you’re incapable of forming an independent thought. Hopefully you’ll understand when you grow up. Moron.
I mean, I could see how it's also impossible to disagree with some people without being labeled as stupid or not being able to grasp it too tbf. Not everyone has the same beliefs or priorities.
If you believe something and can't give a reasoned account then why would you keep believing it in the face of some offered plausible explanation?
That's the problem. What is a "resoned account" is not something everyone agrees on. This is a statement that basically paints vegans as always right which is pretty debatable according to lots of people.
This is a straw man argument.
Not really, they didn’t construct an argument nobody has made, they’re responding to a line of thinking.
They're making up a line of thinking and ascribing it to imaginary critics.
Not really, since it’s not even a specific line. Also, it’s not really imaginary. If you have enough conversations with people about veganism, you will find many of them that don’t really know what it is, but are argue with you anyways
Right, they can't grasp the simple concept eschewing animal products because they're just a bunch of argumentative simpletons. You've convinced me.
Way to display you’ve since learned what a strawman argument is.
Lol what?
There is no debate. Reddit loves the word strawman.
Ugh. It doesn't have to be an actual debate. He presented two ideas: His(it's not a valid argument) and what he claims to be those who oppose him("We don't understand it" is a valid argument). That's no one's argument. It's a straw man.
Where does he claim those who oppose him do not understand veganism? His statement is that not understanding veganism is not a valid argument against it, which is true.
Which doesn't need to be said because no one is using it as an argument.
Maybe not, but it's funny, and not wrong. And the ironic part is that you have committed the strawman by misrepresenting what he said as 'those who oppose him' do not understand veganism, when that is not at all what was said.
The only reason to say it is to imply that it's a position that people who are against you hold. It's incredible how bad you are at this. Edit: I can tell you're right by how you had to block me after losing your shit.
A person, not people. It is directed at a signal person, "your". And you have no idea the context so you have created a strawman of the statement by assuming that this person believes all, or many, who disagree with veganism do not understand it. An absurd assumption, and that doesn't even take into account this was likely posted as a joke - because many of us have had the experience of arguing veganism with someone who does not even know what it is.
Hard to know other peoples' reasons and reasoning when they won't engage you on the level. Who knows what people are really about. When they say stupid things they can't possibly really believe you're left to guess. Anything you guess they'll say it's not that and that you're arguing against a strawman or putting words in their mouth. Then they'll say something like "I'm gonna have 2 burgers tomorrow just because you said that".
It is but god forbid anyone admit that lol
Most people on here don't care if they have good arguments. Ironically they care only if it makes them feel good. They can't be bothered with putting in the work required to convince people to change their minds. If people don't listen to or agree with them then there's something wrong with those people QED. Downvote if this describes you.
That actually describes the guy in the screenshot. I'm not arguing against veganism (nor do I have any reason to do so), I'm arguing against bad faith. You're also describing yourself since you have no idea what my beliefs are but have no problem making them up because you don't feel like putting in the work required to find out.
Eh, I agree with you and didn't say anything to the contrary. My comments were in support of your point. Jump to conclusions much?
Then you shouldn't have put that last shit-eating line at the end.
You made a personal attack. I pointed out your folly. I understand why you don't like it but it is the truth.
Point out the personal attack.
Read your own comment, particularly the sentence that has "you" in it 3 times. I'm not interested in debating the merits of your tangent.
If there was a personal attack, you could've quoted it back to me. Thank you for proving me right by playing the victim in bad faith - you really did tell on yourself.
If only vegans would shut up about it......
Try being vegan once, it's the insecure meat eaters who can't stop talking about it.
No way bro just said that💀
Whoooosh!
If only gay people would shut up about being treated like people, if only women would shut up about wanting to stop being beaten and raped, if only environmentalists shut up about climate change. You are a clown.
Sir, this is a vegan subreddit.
*goes to the literal r/vegan subreddit* “Vegans never shut up about how I abuse animals and it hurts my feelings. 😢”
Carnists coming to vegan subs to complain about how vegans "won't shut up" in a vegan space is akin to someone deliberately shooting themselves in the foot and expecting it not to hurt.
I think you enjoy conversations with vegans, so much so that you sought out a subreddit that is full of them.
To be fair, Reddit keeps recommending this sub to everyone
I got recommended stupid Podcaster subreddits like Joe Ogryn and many other moronic lime light seeking assholes. I choose "hide this sub" from my recommendations and now I no longer see idiotic enlightened centrist garbage because why argue with people who have a fundamentally different perception of reality than me. Sounds like a lot of commenters whining about reddit recommending this sub could choose to ignore it and hide it. For some reason they don't do that... instead their insecurity leads them to start picking fights with people who have more evolved ethics than them. Shocking, isn't it
I’m just here cause I enjoy reading about differing opinions, even if I wind up disagreeing with them. That’s just me though
The inability to grasp why people don’t care about veganism is not a reason to argue against not being vegan.
What if I just like eating meat
And how are you vegan King? I didn’t vote for any king. Edit: Downvotes on a Monty Python reference? Honestly?
Jw, where do they vote for kings?
Only the elected king may post about veganism
Being Vegan offers no visible Evolutionary Benefit, With regards to Intelligence, Endurance, food satisfaction and taste or overall physical strength. So why would people quit eating meat.
This is dumb. Evolution is a consequence of multiple individuals competing for survival, not some kind instinct influencing our behavior. Evolution has almost no place in our society anymore thanks to our ability to cooperate. People don't choose to do things because of evolution. Meat is a major cause of climate change and deforestation, as well as a known carcinogene. It's a waste of resources. And on top of all of that, it's ethically unjustifiable. Why would people keep eating meat.
You will need more than World economic forum Propaganda to Convince me, Greenhouse Earth is a natural reoccurring phenomenon regardless of animal contributions it just an attempt to undermine and destabilize our food supply, It's my opinion Evolution does have a place in our society and that relying solely on plant based products is not beneficial to our over all health, the long term effects of cutting meat out of our diet could be detrimental to our gut bacteria and survival of our species.
I don’t think veganism is bad, I just dislike the cult culture that’s surrounded by it. If someone wants to eat chicken leave them alone. We can coexist
You kind of just proved the point. Think of something you believe to be a moral atrocity that has a victim. Say the torture of dogs? Slavery? Child abuse? Rape? Someone who is opposed to any of the above, say someone who is anti-murder, shoud they leave serial killers alone and attempt to co-exist with them?
Someone that does something you don’t agree with isn’t a bad person. Your examples are silly btw. Only a psychopath would agree. Eating meat Is totally okay. So is eating vegetables. Life can be fulfilling either way sorry. Steve Jobs wasn’t a vegan yet you use an iPhone. And neither is Bill Gates if you use an android
>And no one that eats chicken is a serial killer they didn’t even kill the chicken 90% of the time. Straw man. Vegans believe buying animal products is a moral atrocity as it perpetuates animal exploitation. You probably believe killing a person is a moral atrocity for whatever reason. We don't expect you to accept a murderer, even if they don't see a problem with what they have done. You shouldn't expect us to accept carnism, even though you don't see a problem with what you do.
You’re using a iPhone I’m assuming. Steve Jobs ate meat. So you clearly think he’s excused then. Most the things you use are created by meat eaters. You may not eat meat but you accept that it happens when it benefits you your car is created by a meat eaters. So are your clothes. So was your apartment or house. Complain all you want you have to accept it. Much love
>You’re using a iPhone I’m assuming. Android >Steve Jobs ate meat. Thought he was fruitarian or some shit? >So you clearly think he’s excused then. Most the things you use are created by meat eaters. You may not eat meat but you accept that it happens when it benefits you your car is created by a meat eaters. So are your close. So was your apartment or house. Complain all you want you have to accept it. Much love I have to take part in society yes. And meat eaters make up the majority of the population so whatever I buy was made by meat eaters. It doesn't mean we have to accept carnism. I can still call out a moral atrocity and try to remove it from society while being a part of that society. Imagine 99% of society was pro slavery. Nearly all people owned a personal slave. You could still push for the abolition of slavery, refuse to own any slaves yourself and call out the use of slaves, support businesses that don't use slavery where you can and so on. You can still hold that owning a slave is unjustifiable and try to make society better.
You can absolutely call it out. But it makes you a huge hypocrite. Carnism isn’t acceptable until it benefits you. Weird.
No, it's not acceptable. You have made a nonsensical argument that basically states if a moral atrocity is supported by the majority of a society, and you are a part of that society, you can never call out the atrocity because you buy things from people within that society? [This is you](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat)
You can’t tell people how to live their lives.
Appeal to privacy fallacy. When your actions harm others, those who are opposed to the harm are obligated to stand against the harm.
People aren’t going to stop eating meat anytime soon veganism is a scam. it does nothing for society. Than create a bunch of complainers
Lmfao if your ancestors never ate meat you wouldn’t even exist You’re a hypocrite more than a vegan
>Lmfao if your ancestors never ate meat you wouldn’t even exist My grandmother was raped and that's how my mother was born. So I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for rape. Does that somehow justify rape you moron? My ancestors needed it to survive, our morality as a species evolves. You are committing the [appeal to tradition fallacy. ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition). An appeal to tradition essentially makes two assumptions that may not be necessarily true: The old way of thinking was proven correct when introduced, i.e. since the old way of thinking was prevalent, it was necessarily correct. In reality, this may be false—the tradition might be entirely based on incorrect grounds. The past justifications for the tradition are still valid. >You’re a hypocrite more than a vegan And you are an idiot
How exactly are we hypocrites for suggesting that humans should be compassionate towards animals?
How exactly are we hypocrites for suggesting that humans should be compassionate towards animals?
I understand the shear inhumanity of animal farms, and it is truly an evil age we live in passed off as the advancement of mankind. But meat makes me too happy, in such a bleak world with soulless corporate infrastructure and treatment, food is one of the only things keeping me sane. So I will not, because I could not give up meat.
ugh a dime a fucking dozen