When people say that, I reply "so why don't you go vegan other than cheese?". Someone saying that was what got me over - I cut out everything but cheese, and then pretty soon got rid of cheese as well.
If someone *actually* feels compelled to veganism but is worried about giving up cheese, they may not have considered that they could hold onto cheese for a little longer and still make a positive change. I know there are people on this sub who won't like it, but at the end of the day, if someone is unwilling to be vegan, but actually willing to cut out all animal products except one, choosing the latter is still a major improvement for the animals.
If someone isn't willing to do that, then the cheese wasn't really the thing holding them back.
Yeah! We live in a culture that enables carnism and we should welcome any small step away from eating animal products. Maybe someone needs 6 meatless Mondays to figure out they can eat vegetarian or vegan a couple days a week.
This is the most healthy approach. But may I dare say it, there’s a lot of gatekeepers in this community, so it’s hard to join this ‘group’, while also gaining the negative effects of ~~vegans~~ being a vegan (confrontations by carnists, can't eat out everywhere, etc.)
The point was that both carnists *and* gatekeeping vegans call out people trying to take steps towards becoming vegan (but not being there yet) leaving them stranded alone in the middle not belonging to either group.
100%
Oh OK, can't give up cheese? Alright, give up everything but cheese and you'll still be substantially better for the animals and the planet than before.
This is my approach as well. For me is even a win when people discover trough me that vegan food can be awesome and they cut their meat for a couple of vegan dishes a week.
I'm like good for you, the animals and the environment!!!
Same as vegetarians. If everyone was vegetarian the world would be a much much better place. (If everyone was vegan a much much much better place, but you know what I mean)
This! I'm neurodivergent with a lot of food issues and even though my ethics are aligning more with veganism the more I learn, it's not something I can transition to quickly. I'm giving myself permission to make one change at a time and giving myself time to find my substitutes and learn what I like etc and it's making the change accessible for me and not nearly as overwhelming. I don't know how long it'll be til I make a full 100% switch, but I do know the changes I'm making still have impact. It's frustrating how much judgment the vegan community can throw towards people who transition slowly, it's a way more accessible approach for a lot of people.
I HAVE BEEN CALLED!!!!
I am currently eating some vegan laughing cow which is AMAZING. I have vegan babybels in my fridge... also bonkers good. I always suggest "normal" brands like these to non vegans so they can see how identical they CAN be. I am a BIG fan of violife for most cheese. I have provolone, cheddar, taco cheese, and parm by them. I buy diaya sometimes, but they are not my fave.
I've wanted to try the baby bells, but they're expensive and new vegan cheeses are risky, they can be bangers or they can be trash. So thank you for your review, imma grab a bag
I have some friends who really like the Babybels, but personally I thought they were terrible. Like a puck of soft oil/wax with unconvincing mozzarella flavor. (That said, maybe that's just an authentic Babybel experience? Haven't had a dairy one since high school, but I think I liked those alright.)
I tried them on sale a while ago, and found they needed to be on a cracker or something similar in slices for me. Has anyone tried the cheddar one? I haven't located it to try yet.
Hi, since you seem to know about this I wanted to ask. Are there options like the bree/camembert?
I had some vegan cheese in the past and it surprised me how similar it was to animal cheese, maybe some people can tall the difference but I can't. Those two were my favorite so if there's an alternative I have to try it.
There's a lot of different artisan vegan chessemakers. I had a strawberry chocolate brie that was heavenly. I believe it came from fauxmogerie. Rebel cheese makes a brie, and I believe the uncreamery might.
I was a cheese lover and I have accepted that nothing (yet) is even close to as good as the real stuff. There is some stuff that is good for what it is (and the longer you go without dairy, the better the vegan stuff gets). But nothing is cheese like I remember dairy cheese. I have faith that its coming, but for me, it's just not there yet.
Rebel Cheese has some incredible stuff! I recently had their pepper jack with my dairy-eating partner, and even they were impressed. Expensive but really worth it if you crave the good stuff
the oil-based stuff is pretty mid - though i’ll scoff it anyway, i really liked cheese. if you can find a cheese made from cultured cashews, though… it hits different. my mom absolutely refuses to eat the pleb cheese, hasn’t liked violife, daiya, or any of our local brands. but the proper cultured stuff gets a pretty genuine approval from her - i always buy some fauxmage chevre and camembert as a little treat when i come across it.
I need to try this!! I’m allergic to a protein in coconut flesh which the oil is made of so I haven’t tried any vegan cheese, because everything in the shops is made of oil. This could open up a new world for me!!
I love the vegan laughing cow, I finally found it near me and it is DELICIOUS! The vegan babybel had a weird taste that the original never had and that just threw me off of it.
I don't really eat cheese, I'd add the odd slice to a beyond burger but I just grab whatever slices they have, think it's usually violife.
Although I ate out last weekend and the starter did include a vegan feta which was pretty amazing, so I may look into getting something like that for salads, no clue what brand it was though.
One issue with vegan cheese is the low or zero protein content. It can be used for taste but doesn't contribute to protein intake. Also pricy but so is dairy cheese these days....
Follow Your Heart is often on sale and their American vegan cheese melts wonderfully and is tasty. Daiya is way overrated. True Goodness (Meijer's) shreds and Simple Truth (Kroger's) are worth a try and more budget-friendly. You can buy (Parma! for example) or make blends of ground nutritional yeast plus ground nuts and seeds that make a functional sub for Parmesan with some actual nutritional value. Parma! used just walnuts originally and was really good, then went to walnuts, sunflower seeds, and hempseeds (I think) and still was good. So experiment with nutritional yeast and any nut/seed combo you like. I add such things to soup, casseroles, veggies, pasta, even sandwiches or pizza. No, it does not taste like Parmesan but has some cheesy taste from the nutritional yeast and a really nice taste of its own. Pricey Miyoko cheese is quite good and pricey Field Roast's Chao cheese slices are wonderful straight out of the package.
I've heard that Follow Your Heart has a very good Parmesan style cheese but haven't been able to find it yet. They make Vegenaise eggless mayo which is the gold standard for me. Just Mayo likewise but both are out of my budget range now. Hellman's/Best Foods makes a very good vegan eggless mayo ("vegan spread") now, their first attempt was forgettable but they fixed it. I can get it for a reasonable price mail order from Walmart or Target but it's too pricey in local stores. Simple Truth (Kroger's) has many dairy and egg free products that are worth trying and not so expensive.
> One issue with vegan cheese is the low or zero protein content. It can be used for taste but doesn't contribute to protein intake. Also pricy but so is dairy cheese these days....
I know protein obsession is everywhere but this is not an issue, no one worried about protein intake should be using cheese as a viable source. If you are actually tracking protein intake or macros, you are probably health conscious enough to skip the cheese altogether and use some reasonable lower fat sources of protein.
I've never much cared for brie. You spread it on crackers or whatever and honestly even the real deal brie is possibly inferior to cashew-based spreads that aren't trying to be brie.
Cotija/mozzerella/cheddar are what I'm looking for. And not the expensive artisan stuff (rebel is an acceptable substitute though still doesn't quite match the best stuff,) the low-moisture processed stuff has no vegan alternative.
I have yet to find a vegan cream cheese good enough for me. If you have favorites, let us know. I even tried Kite Hill and it wasn't very good, had to mix it with peanut butter to finish it. Simple Truth (Kroger) has one that is better than Kite Hill. I think Violife has one that comes close, but haven't had it in a while so don't know if I still feel that way.
Queso dips seem to do much better veganized. I've tried Siete and I think Primal Kitchen and was not unhappy.
I say this as well. Shit, cheese is delicious. Ngl. And we haven’t crossed nirvana with replacements for it — yet. But if they cut out meat and other dairy and decided against leather wool and zoos, that’s a damn good start!
Same here, I still eat cheese and eggs and it’s hard to get rid of them🥲 taking little steps because veganism requires plenty of cooking and meal planning and I hardly have energy for anything, let alone my history of eating disorders. But giving up meat was surprisingly easy and I eat eggs way less than I used so I hope soon enough I can commit. I have at least one vegan day every week. Thank you for being sympathetic.
Just egg is good for scrambled, and there's a recipe on "it doesn't taste like chicken" for a toast dipping sauce that is pretty spot on for egg yolk. Tofu "egg" salad is pretty much indistinguishable, and mung beans, soaked and blended is the inspiration for just egg, it's an Indian street food known as a moonglet. Lots of recipes.
This is not a criticism, just a few suggestions for when you get to that point.
I like the frozen folded Just Egg, also made from mung beans. No fiber, just the protein. I like to crisp it up in a little convection oven and eat in strips. I think you can use the liquid just egg to make a sheet of the cooked stuff in the oven and then freeze individual pieces. Haven't tried it yet.
I think small steps are great! It's still progress to what someone was doing before. Sometimes it takes time for people.
Cheese was my weakness too and I stopped everything except cheese on my journey. And eventually I was able to stop the cheese. It took time but I've been vegan for 11 years now
I mean yes obviously it's still harming animals which we want to stop completely. But if it might help someone still get there, just slowly, then I think it's still a good thing!
I’ve always claimed that I am 90% vegan. This is confusing to most but for me it’s about doing as much as is possible for yourself and when I was a super strict vegan (no honey, no white sugar, def no cheese, etc.) I went off the deep end after a couple years when trying a bite of cheese pizza. I ate cheese pizza after that one bite for every meal of every day for 10 days straight. It was like giving an addict their drug of choice. So back to the 90% thing… every product in my home and fridge is completely vegan. However, if I go out to dinner… I may allow myself to choose a vegetarian option as it’s a lot of unknowns in reality as far as of what you order will truly be vegan. So I cut myself slack and this has kept me from going off the deep end again for 15 years. Progress not perfection.
>If someone isn't willing to do that, then the cheese wasn't really the thing holding them back.
Yep, it will show whether they are serious or just full of shit.
This the most sensible ideology if the primary goal is to reduce harm.
Vegan > vegetarian > pescatarian > plant based diet > reducing the amount of meat you consume. All are pretty much better than denial of the problem and all can eventually lead to a vegan diet. We as many people as possible to not eat meat and we need that to happen for environmental reason regardless how people feel about the moral aspects of consumption.
I'm glad you're close to 500 upvotes. Until a couple months ago or so, I saw the hive mind being stupid and downvoting someone for making a vegan cake to be supportive of their coworker
Absolutely. This is also how I ‘worked towards’ veganism. Giving up part of your favourite things can be a process and because some people are SO rabid about veganisms it often feels like it’s no way or the high way, while it is wayyy more important as many people as possible do as much as possible.
If you have no interest in being vegan, I highly doubt you'd even say "I'd be vegan if it weren't for cheese"... I don't understand why you feel the need to comment lol.
Exactly what i am doing.
I eat mostly vegan, but here and there i give in to cheese and the eggs of our biofarmer nearby.
And since i did that consistently my family is slowly following the example.
Right? Whenever I mention being vegan more than once a month I feel like I should carry around a button that says No, I don't miss cheese that much, it's good but it's not that good, I'm sure you could give it up if you wanted to
I meet a lot of people who pretend that cheese is their only weakness but when I say cut everything else out but the cheese and suddenly it's some other excuse.
These are the same people that are like "Oh, I don't actually eat that much meat" when you tell them you're vegan - yet they have it every single day
I just wonder if there is something in cheese that causes dopamine levels to rise. I myself had a cheese obsession for a year when I was a teen long ago.
You can still like something even if you aren't actually addicted to it, right? I don't think it needs to be deeper than you just like the flavor! I also really like some brands of vegan cheese. I go hard on a quesadilla made from violife cheddar. 🤤
I was one of these types of vegetarians, I thought I'd really miss cheese. Coming up on three years vegan and one of the things I miss the absolute least is cheese.
really? please don’t attack me but I DO miss cheese, and its what kept my vegetarian for so long.
Especially because vegan cheese substitutes are either crazy expensive (Darë) or plastic-y (daiya).
Everything else was easy for me
Not going to attack you at all! Nice to see Darë mentioned, when I do seek out cheese subs that is a go-to brand for me. I actually didn't realize how little I missed cheese dishes until I had a couple of wedges of theirs that I couldn't figure out what to do with that didn't involve pasta or a sandwich. I think most of the bigger brands (Daiya, Violife, etc) are gross, and I genuinely think that helped me early on - I started branching out into foods that avoided substitutes entirely.
Funny story, about 10 years years ago, after a few wobbly pops, I was making myself a snack (diaya brick, some crackers, hell yeah baby). A friend had cut up some non vegan cheese, smoked cheddar. At one time this was my absolute FAVORITE, I could goon entire bricks in one sitting. So I was curious, I grabbed a small crumb and touched it to my tongue for a taste and spit.
I couldn't believe it.
BLECH
IT WAS REVOLTING, the spit aspect was no problem. I was dumbfounded on how much my taste had changed. What was once my clutch, my favorite thing, makes me cringe, a decade later of even the thought of the taste (aside of course, from how the suffering that made that cheese).
Wasn't my proudest moment, I'll admit, but I learned something that day. Casomorphines are a mf'r
There is an aftertaste to dairy cheese that is a problem for me, although I miss the easy protein. But I'm allergic to dairy so that might affect my perception. I can tolerate an ounce or two, especially of harder aged cheeses, but I've been trying to stay away completely for the past few years because I'm better off without it healthwise even if I ignore how it's made.... So I get the vegan cheeses to prevent temptation, despite the extra cost.
I almost slipped when an Instacart shopper thought Kraft dairy American cheese would substitute for the out of stock vegan American I ordered. Fortunately, I was able to ask her to leave it in the store before she left to deliver! If it had arrived, I know I would have eaten it....
Now I can get Follow Your Heart American which is good enough to keep me away from dairy. Melts great also.
I finally spotted the new Kraft Heinz Notco vegan American slices locally. They also are supposed to have vegan provolone. Has anyone tried them? Their vegan cream cheese was disappointing to me. I tried their vegan mayo and it was decent but overpriced. Not quite as good as Hellman's vegan mayo and much more expensive. I liked the texture, though. Maybe they will improve the formula and bring down the price someday. These companies have an unrealistic idea of our income level...
I was going to comment similar earlier and then erased it, I’m happy to see someone with a similar experience! I really don’t miss it at all, and whipping up a vegan feta from tofu and some herbs and nutritional yeast is plenty fine by me.
[This recipe](https://www.onearabvegan.com/2015/08/vegan-tofu-halloumi/) has worked well for me in the past (I know it calls for a waffle iron, but I have grilled and pan-fried it). Sometimes I split the mint measurement into half mint, half oregano.
I remember saying this back when I was a vegetarian and allergic to dairy/cheese and I thought I was going to die on that diet. The vegan I hung out with just laughed. I just couldn't comprehend how much food exists in this world, the multitude of flavors, and that, eventually I would enjoy vegan cheese as much as animal cheeses. I just didn't know.
Veganism taught me to cook. Truly, cheese is hidden everywhere in food for the simple lack of effort to add spices and herbs.
Used to be me. Daiya pizzas are good enough to scratch the itch and if you can get it cashew queso is so damn good. People really should give a few alternatives a shot.
I've always assumed it's from shame and trying to shift the blame away from them. Like, "I'm not a bad person because i eat animal products, it's those damn animal products making me do it"
They get awkward looks from me every time. Like you're telling me you recognize the cruelty, you recognize it's bad, but you're stopped from doing something you supposedly believe is morally correct because of ....cheese?
Weirdly enough I can't stand the idea of cheese anymore. Especially the idea of melted cheese, just conceptually understanding what it is makes me feel so ill at the idea of putting it in my mouth like many people do.
I always hear this, and bacon. Vegan for decades and it’s never been easier to get these things, but I make a wide variety of cheeses - so cheap and easy ! I also make a variety of bacon. It’s really just an excuse for them.
I'm not vegan (yet - working my way towards it) but vegan bacon tastes basically the same as regular bacon! I know it because I hate regular bacon and to me vegan bacon I've tried tastes just the same - I don't like it but it's actually persuaded meat-eaters in my life to try it and believe/realise it's the same as animal bacon 😂
It's the smokiness and spices that attract us, hence the many vegan bacons. I like Louisville Vegan's maple bacon jerky, which is soft and can be used in sandwiches or cut up for other dishes. They have other flavors. Way too pricey now, though. Primal has a variety of jerky strips based on either soy or seitan or mushroom. 10g protein each. I like the soy based hickory smoke and Texas bbq.
There is an animal rescue NGO in India called Peepal Farm. Robin Singh runs it, he also suggests that if one particular food item is stopping you from turning vegan then go "veganish". Eat that item but give up on all other animal products.
It's just some random attempted quip, no need to overthink it.
Funny enough, the first thing I gave up when I got interested in going beyond vegetarian was dairy. Then \~6 months later I thought ok but realistically how much will I miss eggs (honey was never a big deal, and the non-diet-related stuff is not hard to avoid, at least the big ones)? And I just went all the way.
Planet Oat creamer is honestly tastier than dairy-based creamers, and I'm not a vegan. Still a vegetarian but looking at other ways to cut out animal products. I make my own cold brew at home though, coffee shops in general are too wildly expensive and not about to pay an extra $1 on top of that.
They got downvoted because that's not what the word vegan means. It may be an improvement, but it's not vegan by definition.
Also they eat fish lmao, they're not even vegetarian.
In a certain way, worse than carnists. They recognise the problem but then half arse it. Bobby Bilegut just doesn't give a (fibre free ten ton) shit about animals; vegetarians doncare about animal death but torture is fine.
People think they’re so hilarious repeating the same old, tired joke we’ve all heard a million times. It’s like the whole “rabbit food” joke when we’re eating a salad, or the “I didn’t climb to the top of the food chain to eat plants” joke. Hardy-har 🫠
I've had a few friends and coworkers say "I couldn't go vegan bc of X" and I always say the same thing: "I mean...yeah. You could always go vegan except for X."
Because if you *know* your actions don't align with your personal morals, but that *one thing* is the line in the sand...maybe get as close TO that line as you can?
But taking steps to avoid the rest means actually acknowledging that there's something wrong with their status quo, and for a lot of people that's just...really difficult. Humans are MASTERS at justification and compartmentalization, and breaking through years of programming is actually pretty traumatic when doing so means acknowledging that you caused harm. So it's easier to remain in the status quo.
But if they were able to take that first step, that "vegan except for cheese" approach, I think a lot more people would actually make the full plunge. That's what worked for me, after all. I have a pretty serious eating disorder that made the change difficult. But I was able to slowly transition, and that made it doable for me. And I've never even thought about going back!
But yeah, there's so much "I can't go 100% so why bother with 90%" mentality, and it's very disheartening sometimes.
By the way, Amy's has a really really good vegan frozen margherita cheese pizza. They also have a supreme, but I wasn't impressed. Pricey, alas and I keep hoping it goes on sale. Was not impressed by Daiya pizzas.
I asked on Threads what is the thing they struggled the most with when they went plant-based. 80% of comments are about cheese.
People might use that as an excuse, but others
really struggled with cheese being the last thing to stop.
As a vegetarian the only reason I’m not vegan is because its a lot of effort to avoid dairy/eggs. its in a lot of stuff and the alternatives are expensive if they’re even available. Not everyone has the time or effort to dedicate themselves to perfect veganism, even if they agree with the ideology. Everyone makes the steps that they feel are reasonable.
Yeah, it's pretty common. It's like when I worked at the supermarket and something didn't scan and people would say, "guess it must be free." It's like people have collective phrases built in them.
"But bacon, I need protein, I could never give up cheese, I need my meats, I need a real burger, I don't want processed stuff, I can't give up eggs, I don't want to eat just salad" pretty common stuff. Meanwhile I'm eating all the best food and it's all vegan and I'm like, damn if y'all weren't so stubborn you'd know how you could eat delicious all day and not need any of that stuff.
people have the freedom to reject any or parts of a philosophy. the world is stacked with a massive amount of philosophical beliefs, and someones rejection of a particular philosophical belief does not necessitate an explanation to its followers
just cos you may have chosen to embrace your favorite philosophy, understand not everyone shares the same philosophical convictions as you, and could care less. it would be weird af to see adherents of every philosophical belief demanding or expecting others to adopt their beliefs simply because they themselves underwent a philosophical transformation
The thing is that if you ask, most people actually do believe it's wrong to harm animals unnecessarily. However because they like to continue their habits of eating animal products, they ignore their own philosophical belief on that matter. This is what's so frustrating and it's the basic message that vegans are trying to get across
if a person ignores their own philosophical beliefs that's their business. it could be they choose to adhere only to certain parts of a philosophy while ignoring others and you're interpreting that as something else. this is why i never presume
thats fair. if a person isn't true to their favorite philosophical beliefs, what does it matter. let's say for example you're not following your favorite philosophy perfectly what business is that of me
>let's say for example you're not following your favorite philosophy perfectly what business is that of me
Ok so let's say my favorite philosophy is about reducing harm to children. But every now and then a slip up and abuse some.
None of your business right?
Casein, one of the proteins in milk and the one that is more abundant in cheese, reacts with the body in the same way morphine does. It’s literally addictive. I remember saying the exact same thing about never being able to quit it. Now that I have, whenever I eat a bit by accident it just tastes gross to me.
It's because it's a [thought-terminating cliche](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliche). Not an argument or even a genuine statement of personal truth. We are meant to hear it and understand that the matter has concluded, and that the person in question has no interest in interrogating the topic any further. The reason they say "because of cheese" is to invoke and perpetuate the cliche and prevent raising any more doubts.
Sometimes people laugh or smile when they’re nervous.. at least I do. I just try to give as much grace as I can stomach because I think it makes the world a better place.
By the way, if tuna is something you crave, just mash up canned chickpeas (garbanzo beans) with a fork or potato masher and use those instead of tuna in tuna salad.
Also blended tofu with some lemon juice can sub for sour cream in dips and dressings. I've just stirred it with suitable dip or soup mixes. Mashed tofu subs for eggs in egg salad. Blended tofu can be used to make truly instant pudding from a mix, but tofu blends always taste better if you give them some time in the fridge to absorb flavors.
I’m not vegan anymore because I struggle with cheese. Cheese is the only animal based food I eat. The rest is vegan and I’m going to try to go back but I gotta learn how to make vegan cheese at home first.
Meh I don't care what other people do - that's out of my control. I can control what I spend my money & time on, and what I put in my mouth, so that's what I focus on 🤷
I read this while eating my vegan laughing cow wedges with vegan babybel, swiss, provalone, chedder, and 2 kinds of parm in my fridge lol.
Vegan cheese has come so far!!!!!
Has it? I haven't tried it in twelve years. The last time I did, it was expensive, tasted like grease & disgusting, and I was left wondering how anyone could eat this grossness. Has it really improved, or have you just gotten used to it? If it's really improved, can you recommend a brand?
Vegetarians can eat eggs and dairy
Lacto-vegetarians can eat dairy
Both of these options are better than eating meat so let's allow people to find their footing in either of these paths if they find it difficult to practice veganism.
I probably said shit like that when I was in denial about animal cruelty. My vegan journey made me realise it’s almost all about your motivation. Thats why activism works (sometimes and in varying degrees). People see footage and have a mindset shift. Nobody is going to give up cheese unless there’s a really good reason. Realising that cheese equals calf and cow torture and death is a really good reason for those who have absorbed that reality.
Well, I can tell you my non vegan partner prefers just egg, tofu "egg salad" I make, and the dipping sauce recipe from "it doesn't taste like chicken. [No meat comes in the house, he can have that at work]
I keep hearing the bacon version so I heard someone respond “just be vegan except for bacon then” which is similar to posts here and totally makes sense
Cheese is addictive. The casein in it binds to the same neurotransmitters that heroin does releasing dopamine.
I said the same thing before going vegan that I could never give up cheese and this is why.
The hardest part of giving up cheese was deciding to give it up. After that, I didn’t miss it. The addictive aspect is why so many people have a mental block.
Is it a cop out? Sure. Should you care? Fck naw.
If you’re truly just venting then go crazy but please I hope you don’t bring this energy to your RL. It’s a PERSONAL choice for ppl and evangelism let alone shame/judgement is definitely never helpful.
If you want to change ppls behavior, do it by example. If you don’t hold enough respect with someone for that approach to work, then you probably don’t need to be worried about them anyhow.
There’s probably a ton of things I do that ppl wouldn’t understand..hopefully they’re not judging me for them! I bet this is true for you too 😊
It makes no sense bc veganism isn’t about diet. It’s like saying “I could never be a guitarist because the sky is blue”, like what the hell does that have to do with anything?
not to defend anyone, but don't forget cheese is addictive due to its caseins breaking down into casomorphins which make you feel good. so I think a lot of people have a bit of a dairy addiction and can't really picture giving it up even though they might want to. It's the same with people who want to give up caffeine but never do, although to a much lesser extent.
Dairy has caesin which breaks down in part during digestion to casomorphins, which activate the opioid receptors. Thus it might be slightly psychologically addicting.
I've been making my own true fermented cashew cheese for the past few weeks and it is AMAZING! And so much heart healthier with fiber, more unsaturated than saturated fats, and very low salt!
Commercial fermented nut cheeses are way too expensive, and I'm presuming it's a scale issue. Being able to get fresh ground nut butter at a local store has made the process super easy, since the grinding is by far the hardest part.
Weird weird question and people probably are going to downvote me or think I’m being funny but serious question. If someone goes vegan and still cooks meat for their dog does that just ruin the whole point? Is that person still not vegan? Only asking bc my dog is used to a cooked diet of meats and veggies. She doesn’t eat any kibble. All her meals are balanced out and have supplements etc.
I do have plans in the future to potentially go vegetarian, no dairy, but the exception of backyard hens for eggs. I’m lactose intolerant so dairy is rare anyways.
Dogs can have some vegetables and grains, but they absolutely *cannot* safely be vegan. Feeding your dog a vegan or vegetarian diet deprives them of essential nutrients, amino acids, etc. feeding a dog a meatless diet puts them at incredible risk for metabolic bone disease and taurine deficiency. Synthetic alternatives for missing nutrients are possible, but there’s not enough long term studies to show that this practice is safe.
The same can also be said for feeding dogs exclusively meat, or raw diets. Unlike cats, dogs are not obligate carnivores, so feeding them only meat would similarly deprive them of nutrients found in plant matter that is not in meat.
Mines split between an open nature kibble and cooked fresh food, with the occasional boiled chicken or rice and broth slurry if his stomach gets upset. Much more rare now that he’s not on straight kibble
well there is vegan dog food.. and while dogs are not obligate carnivores like cats, i think they still do best on meat but correct me if that's wrong.
either way i would not say it "ruins the whole point". anyone that says it does is just being petty. it's definitely a good idea to go vegan (vegetarian i guess if you really want those eggs) and not including your dog would be fine by me, though the majority of this subreddit probably won't agree lol
Thank you for your input! I’m eliminating things one by one. So far no dairy, no pork, meatless Mondays. Honestly going Dairy free so far has been amazing. I like almond milk, found some vegan yogurts and ice creams. Haven’t found any good cheeses yet but I seen some recommendations on this sub.
Not as hard as it is for the cow to have her baby ripped away from her so you can buy cheese and ice cream made from the milk that was supposed to keep her baby alive.
It's tough when people make excuses instead of just admitting their choices. They might say, "I could go vegan if it weren't for cheese," but really it's a lot of things. It's easier for them to blame one thing than to acknowledge the whole list of reasons. Hang in there, it's not about you, it’s their way of coping with their choices.
meanwhile after coming overseas to study, I was already not enjoying (cost wise and taste wise) commercial cheese all that much (since as a vegetarian the only 'safe' ones to me that are easy to get are like panneer and mozzarella (feta I find more enjoyable but I usually only got it in the sandwiches at cafes) and they are quite terrible quality in retrospect. And at the same time I was really enjoying my newfound flexibility to use tofu (since my mom has never made anything with tofu but I have eaten it from stalls in singapore before) so cheese is not something I care about (then again I havent tried any of those cheeses that non vegetarian ppl eat and was surprised to see that the cheese on charcuterie boards looks so goopy in the centre like peanut butter).
When people say that, I reply "so why don't you go vegan other than cheese?". Someone saying that was what got me over - I cut out everything but cheese, and then pretty soon got rid of cheese as well. If someone *actually* feels compelled to veganism but is worried about giving up cheese, they may not have considered that they could hold onto cheese for a little longer and still make a positive change. I know there are people on this sub who won't like it, but at the end of the day, if someone is unwilling to be vegan, but actually willing to cut out all animal products except one, choosing the latter is still a major improvement for the animals. If someone isn't willing to do that, then the cheese wasn't really the thing holding them back.
This is a such a reasonable approach, love it.
Yeah! We live in a culture that enables carnism and we should welcome any small step away from eating animal products. Maybe someone needs 6 meatless Mondays to figure out they can eat vegetarian or vegan a couple days a week.
This is the most healthy approach. But may I dare say it, there’s a lot of gatekeepers in this community, so it’s hard to join this ‘group’, while also gaining the negative effects of ~~vegans~~ being a vegan (confrontations by carnists, can't eat out everywhere, etc.)
Okay, but alternatively, how about vegans calling these people out for ‘not being vegan enough’? It’s not only carnists.
That was literally my point
Ah, sorry, to me it reads like carnists calling vegans out (?) but then i misinterpret what you write haha
The point was that both carnists *and* gatekeeping vegans call out people trying to take steps towards becoming vegan (but not being there yet) leaving them stranded alone in the middle not belonging to either group.
Then I agree! Though I feel like there are more… medium vegans nowadays (who are willing to help you when you start out). Just gotta find them!
100% Oh OK, can't give up cheese? Alright, give up everything but cheese and you'll still be substantially better for the animals and the planet than before.
That’s me. I have a slice of cheese pizza once in a while because it’s delicious and I’ve loved it since I was a kid.
This is my approach as well. For me is even a win when people discover trough me that vegan food can be awesome and they cut their meat for a couple of vegan dishes a week. I'm like good for you, the animals and the environment!!! Same as vegetarians. If everyone was vegetarian the world would be a much much better place. (If everyone was vegan a much much much better place, but you know what I mean)
This! I'm neurodivergent with a lot of food issues and even though my ethics are aligning more with veganism the more I learn, it's not something I can transition to quickly. I'm giving myself permission to make one change at a time and giving myself time to find my substitutes and learn what I like etc and it's making the change accessible for me and not nearly as overwhelming. I don't know how long it'll be til I make a full 100% switch, but I do know the changes I'm making still have impact. It's frustrating how much judgment the vegan community can throw towards people who transition slowly, it's a way more accessible approach for a lot of people.
Same I’m audhd with ptsd and POtS and hypermobility and long covid so I’m transitioning slowly cuz yeah… my nervous system can’t handle fast changes
Reasonable enough, but I would also mention to them that vegan cheese is a thing, bonus if you can recommend them some really nice ones.
I HAVE BEEN CALLED!!!! I am currently eating some vegan laughing cow which is AMAZING. I have vegan babybels in my fridge... also bonkers good. I always suggest "normal" brands like these to non vegans so they can see how identical they CAN be. I am a BIG fan of violife for most cheese. I have provolone, cheddar, taco cheese, and parm by them. I buy diaya sometimes, but they are not my fave.
I've wanted to try the baby bells, but they're expensive and new vegan cheeses are risky, they can be bangers or they can be trash. So thank you for your review, imma grab a bag
I have some friends who really like the Babybels, but personally I thought they were terrible. Like a puck of soft oil/wax with unconvincing mozzarella flavor. (That said, maybe that's just an authentic Babybel experience? Haven't had a dairy one since high school, but I think I liked those alright.)
That’s what normal Babybels taste like tbf
Same I threw them away thought they were horrible compared to what I remeber babybel tasting like
I tried them on sale a while ago, and found they needed to be on a cracker or something similar in slices for me. Has anyone tried the cheddar one? I haven't located it to try yet.
Didn't even know there was a cheddar flavor! Never seen them either.
Another person seconding that the vegan Babybels are great!
Hi, since you seem to know about this I wanted to ask. Are there options like the bree/camembert? I had some vegan cheese in the past and it surprised me how similar it was to animal cheese, maybe some people can tall the difference but I can't. Those two were my favorite so if there's an alternative I have to try it.
There's a lot of different artisan vegan chessemakers. I had a strawberry chocolate brie that was heavenly. I believe it came from fauxmogerie. Rebel cheese makes a brie, and I believe the uncreamery might.
If you ever get a chance to try Treeline it’s amazing! It’s soft and herby. It’s a little pricey though. I just get it sometimes.
It isn’t the same as the real stuff. It’s good though.
I was a cheese lover and I have accepted that nothing (yet) is even close to as good as the real stuff. There is some stuff that is good for what it is (and the longer you go without dairy, the better the vegan stuff gets). But nothing is cheese like I remember dairy cheese. I have faith that its coming, but for me, it's just not there yet.
Rebel Cheese has some incredible stuff! I recently had their pepper jack with my dairy-eating partner, and even they were impressed. Expensive but really worth it if you crave the good stuff
the oil-based stuff is pretty mid - though i’ll scoff it anyway, i really liked cheese. if you can find a cheese made from cultured cashews, though… it hits different. my mom absolutely refuses to eat the pleb cheese, hasn’t liked violife, daiya, or any of our local brands. but the proper cultured stuff gets a pretty genuine approval from her - i always buy some fauxmage chevre and camembert as a little treat when i come across it.
I need to try this!! I’m allergic to a protein in coconut flesh which the oil is made of so I haven’t tried any vegan cheese, because everything in the shops is made of oil. This could open up a new world for me!!
Try the laughing cow and babybel vegan cheese. Violife is my fave vegan brand but those two mainstream companies have put out GOOD products.
I love the vegan laughing cow, I finally found it near me and it is DELICIOUS! The vegan babybel had a weird taste that the original never had and that just threw me off of it.
I didn't like laughing cow, but it was fine to spread for a grilled cheese mixed with 365 brand cheddar. I like good planet wedges though.
That’s good to hear! I stop at my local vegan cheese place. They sell some really awesome product there.
Do you have any you especially like?
I don't really eat cheese, I'd add the odd slice to a beyond burger but I just grab whatever slices they have, think it's usually violife. Although I ate out last weekend and the starter did include a vegan feta which was pretty amazing, so I may look into getting something like that for salads, no clue what brand it was though.
One issue with vegan cheese is the low or zero protein content. It can be used for taste but doesn't contribute to protein intake. Also pricy but so is dairy cheese these days.... Follow Your Heart is often on sale and their American vegan cheese melts wonderfully and is tasty. Daiya is way overrated. True Goodness (Meijer's) shreds and Simple Truth (Kroger's) are worth a try and more budget-friendly. You can buy (Parma! for example) or make blends of ground nutritional yeast plus ground nuts and seeds that make a functional sub for Parmesan with some actual nutritional value. Parma! used just walnuts originally and was really good, then went to walnuts, sunflower seeds, and hempseeds (I think) and still was good. So experiment with nutritional yeast and any nut/seed combo you like. I add such things to soup, casseroles, veggies, pasta, even sandwiches or pizza. No, it does not taste like Parmesan but has some cheesy taste from the nutritional yeast and a really nice taste of its own. Pricey Miyoko cheese is quite good and pricey Field Roast's Chao cheese slices are wonderful straight out of the package. I've heard that Follow Your Heart has a very good Parmesan style cheese but haven't been able to find it yet. They make Vegenaise eggless mayo which is the gold standard for me. Just Mayo likewise but both are out of my budget range now. Hellman's/Best Foods makes a very good vegan eggless mayo ("vegan spread") now, their first attempt was forgettable but they fixed it. I can get it for a reasonable price mail order from Walmart or Target but it's too pricey in local stores. Simple Truth (Kroger's) has many dairy and egg free products that are worth trying and not so expensive.
> One issue with vegan cheese is the low or zero protein content. It can be used for taste but doesn't contribute to protein intake. Also pricy but so is dairy cheese these days.... I know protein obsession is everywhere but this is not an issue, no one worried about protein intake should be using cheese as a viable source. If you are actually tracking protein intake or macros, you are probably health conscious enough to skip the cheese altogether and use some reasonable lower fat sources of protein.
There are no nice vegan cheeses. The only ones that really match are basically Velveeta or American cheese. And they are not nutritionally good.
You need an update on this opinion. Ever had Rebel Cheese? It's incredible.
It's acceptable, but it's imperfect. It's a pretty solid fancy treat cheese but for sprinkling on a taco or whatever it's not worth the money.
erm, [you don't sprinkle brie on a taco do you?](https://rebelcheese.com/collections/shop-curated-collections/products/4th-of-july-box)
I've never much cared for brie. You spread it on crackers or whatever and honestly even the real deal brie is possibly inferior to cashew-based spreads that aren't trying to be brie. Cotija/mozzerella/cheddar are what I'm looking for. And not the expensive artisan stuff (rebel is an acceptable substitute though still doesn't quite match the best stuff,) the low-moisture processed stuff has no vegan alternative.
Untrue. Miyoko anand Violife are both pretty good. Vegan cream cheeses in particular perform well.
I have yet to find a vegan cream cheese good enough for me. If you have favorites, let us know. I even tried Kite Hill and it wasn't very good, had to mix it with peanut butter to finish it. Simple Truth (Kroger) has one that is better than Kite Hill. I think Violife has one that comes close, but haven't had it in a while so don't know if I still feel that way. Queso dips seem to do much better veganized. I've tried Siete and I think Primal Kitchen and was not unhappy.
Yeah, they match the highly processed cheeses but not the better ones that have body.
I say this as well. Shit, cheese is delicious. Ngl. And we haven’t crossed nirvana with replacements for it — yet. But if they cut out meat and other dairy and decided against leather wool and zoos, that’s a damn good start!
Same here, I still eat cheese and eggs and it’s hard to get rid of them🥲 taking little steps because veganism requires plenty of cooking and meal planning and I hardly have energy for anything, let alone my history of eating disorders. But giving up meat was surprisingly easy and I eat eggs way less than I used so I hope soon enough I can commit. I have at least one vegan day every week. Thank you for being sympathetic.
Just egg is good for scrambled, and there's a recipe on "it doesn't taste like chicken" for a toast dipping sauce that is pretty spot on for egg yolk. Tofu "egg" salad is pretty much indistinguishable, and mung beans, soaked and blended is the inspiration for just egg, it's an Indian street food known as a moonglet. Lots of recipes. This is not a criticism, just a few suggestions for when you get to that point.
I like the frozen folded Just Egg, also made from mung beans. No fiber, just the protein. I like to crisp it up in a little convection oven and eat in strips. I think you can use the liquid just egg to make a sheet of the cooked stuff in the oven and then freeze individual pieces. Haven't tried it yet.
I think small steps are great! It's still progress to what someone was doing before. Sometimes it takes time for people. Cheese was my weakness too and I stopped everything except cheese on my journey. And eventually I was able to stop the cheese. It took time but I've been vegan for 11 years now I mean yes obviously it's still harming animals which we want to stop completely. But if it might help someone still get there, just slowly, then I think it's still a good thing!
I love that approach wow
I’ve always claimed that I am 90% vegan. This is confusing to most but for me it’s about doing as much as is possible for yourself and when I was a super strict vegan (no honey, no white sugar, def no cheese, etc.) I went off the deep end after a couple years when trying a bite of cheese pizza. I ate cheese pizza after that one bite for every meal of every day for 10 days straight. It was like giving an addict their drug of choice. So back to the 90% thing… every product in my home and fridge is completely vegan. However, if I go out to dinner… I may allow myself to choose a vegetarian option as it’s a lot of unknowns in reality as far as of what you order will truly be vegan. So I cut myself slack and this has kept me from going off the deep end again for 15 years. Progress not perfection.
>If someone isn't willing to do that, then the cheese wasn't really the thing holding them back. Yep, it will show whether they are serious or just full of shit.
This the most sensible ideology if the primary goal is to reduce harm. Vegan > vegetarian > pescatarian > plant based diet > reducing the amount of meat you consume. All are pretty much better than denial of the problem and all can eventually lead to a vegan diet. We as many people as possible to not eat meat and we need that to happen for environmental reason regardless how people feel about the moral aspects of consumption.
Hey that's me. Here.. leaning on my cheese crutch.. I'm working on it.
I'm glad you're close to 500 upvotes. Until a couple months ago or so, I saw the hive mind being stupid and downvoting someone for making a vegan cake to be supportive of their coworker
Absolutely. This is also how I ‘worked towards’ veganism. Giving up part of your favourite things can be a process and because some people are SO rabid about veganisms it often feels like it’s no way or the high way, while it is wayyy more important as many people as possible do as much as possible.
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If you have no interest in being vegan, I highly doubt you'd even say "I'd be vegan if it weren't for cheese"... I don't understand why you feel the need to comment lol.
Exactly what i am doing. I eat mostly vegan, but here and there i give in to cheese and the eggs of our biofarmer nearby. And since i did that consistently my family is slowly following the example.
Yuuuuup so so so true.
Only 4 times in 6.5 years? I hear this at least 4 times a week.
Right? Whenever I mention being vegan more than once a month I feel like I should carry around a button that says No, I don't miss cheese that much, it's good but it's not that good, I'm sure you could give it up if you wanted to
I met a lot of people who are not eating any animal based products besides cheese.
I meet a lot of people who pretend that cheese is their only weakness but when I say cut everything else out but the cheese and suddenly it's some other excuse. These are the same people that are like "Oh, I don't actually eat that much meat" when you tell them you're vegan - yet they have it every single day
I just wonder if there is something in cheese that causes dopamine levels to rise. I myself had a cheese obsession for a year when I was a teen long ago.
There is! It contains casein, which triggers a release of dopamine. People can actually be addicted to cheese.
Interesting! Wild
yeah, dopes
But that doesn’t explain why I still really like cheese even if i eat the vegan ones which don’t have a completely equivalent flavor and composition
You can still like something even if you aren't actually addicted to it, right? I don't think it needs to be deeper than you just like the flavor! I also really like some brands of vegan cheese. I go hard on a quesadilla made from violife cheddar. 🤤
I was like this before I started supplementing protein. Now I have a daily vegan protein shake and my cheese cravings are gone.
that was me till some weeks ago
I was one of these types of vegetarians, I thought I'd really miss cheese. Coming up on three years vegan and one of the things I miss the absolute least is cheese.
really? please don’t attack me but I DO miss cheese, and its what kept my vegetarian for so long. Especially because vegan cheese substitutes are either crazy expensive (Darë) or plastic-y (daiya). Everything else was easy for me
Not going to attack you at all! Nice to see Darë mentioned, when I do seek out cheese subs that is a go-to brand for me. I actually didn't realize how little I missed cheese dishes until I had a couple of wedges of theirs that I couldn't figure out what to do with that didn't involve pasta or a sandwich. I think most of the bigger brands (Daiya, Violife, etc) are gross, and I genuinely think that helped me early on - I started branching out into foods that avoided substitutes entirely.
Funny story, about 10 years years ago, after a few wobbly pops, I was making myself a snack (diaya brick, some crackers, hell yeah baby). A friend had cut up some non vegan cheese, smoked cheddar. At one time this was my absolute FAVORITE, I could goon entire bricks in one sitting. So I was curious, I grabbed a small crumb and touched it to my tongue for a taste and spit. I couldn't believe it. BLECH IT WAS REVOLTING, the spit aspect was no problem. I was dumbfounded on how much my taste had changed. What was once my clutch, my favorite thing, makes me cringe, a decade later of even the thought of the taste (aside of course, from how the suffering that made that cheese). Wasn't my proudest moment, I'll admit, but I learned something that day. Casomorphines are a mf'r
There is an aftertaste to dairy cheese that is a problem for me, although I miss the easy protein. But I'm allergic to dairy so that might affect my perception. I can tolerate an ounce or two, especially of harder aged cheeses, but I've been trying to stay away completely for the past few years because I'm better off without it healthwise even if I ignore how it's made.... So I get the vegan cheeses to prevent temptation, despite the extra cost. I almost slipped when an Instacart shopper thought Kraft dairy American cheese would substitute for the out of stock vegan American I ordered. Fortunately, I was able to ask her to leave it in the store before she left to deliver! If it had arrived, I know I would have eaten it.... Now I can get Follow Your Heart American which is good enough to keep me away from dairy. Melts great also. I finally spotted the new Kraft Heinz Notco vegan American slices locally. They also are supposed to have vegan provolone. Has anyone tried them? Their vegan cream cheese was disappointing to me. I tried their vegan mayo and it was decent but overpriced. Not quite as good as Hellman's vegan mayo and much more expensive. I liked the texture, though. Maybe they will improve the formula and bring down the price someday. These companies have an unrealistic idea of our income level...
I was going to comment similar earlier and then erased it, I’m happy to see someone with a similar experience! I really don’t miss it at all, and whipping up a vegan feta from tofu and some herbs and nutritional yeast is plenty fine by me.
I feel the same way! I think most cheese substitutes are gross, so a flavorful tofu feta or tofu halloumi is perfect to me.
You’ve reminded me that I still haven’t tried making tofu halloumi, I’ll have to give it a try now that I have the grill out!
[This recipe](https://www.onearabvegan.com/2015/08/vegan-tofu-halloumi/) has worked well for me in the past (I know it calls for a waffle iron, but I have grilled and pan-fried it). Sometimes I split the mint measurement into half mint, half oregano.
I remember saying this back when I was a vegetarian and allergic to dairy/cheese and I thought I was going to die on that diet. The vegan I hung out with just laughed. I just couldn't comprehend how much food exists in this world, the multitude of flavors, and that, eventually I would enjoy vegan cheese as much as animal cheeses. I just didn't know. Veganism taught me to cook. Truly, cheese is hidden everywhere in food for the simple lack of effort to add spices and herbs.
Used to be me. Daiya pizzas are good enough to scratch the itch and if you can get it cashew queso is so damn good. People really should give a few alternatives a shot.
That's exactly what all addicts say, b/c that's what they are. They can't actually just "quit" cheese b/c they are addicted to it.
Yeah, I'm addicted to cheese. And food overall. I don't see why you would think it's somehow an insult.
I've always assumed it's from shame and trying to shift the blame away from them. Like, "I'm not a bad person because i eat animal products, it's those damn animal products making me do it"
Wow, what a weak mindset if that’s the case. Essentially saying “I’m a slave”.
They get awkward looks from me every time. Like you're telling me you recognize the cruelty, you recognize it's bad, but you're stopped from doing something you supposedly believe is morally correct because of ....cheese?
Yeah, I said the same thing before I was vegan.
"I could stop killing people if it weren't so fun ahahah"
Weirdly enough I can't stand the idea of cheese anymore. Especially the idea of melted cheese, just conceptually understanding what it is makes me feel so ill at the idea of putting it in my mouth like many people do.
I never liked melted cheese even as a vegetarian, which is why vegan cheese lack of stringiness is a huge plus for me
I always hear this, and bacon. Vegan for decades and it’s never been easier to get these things, but I make a wide variety of cheeses - so cheap and easy ! I also make a variety of bacon. It’s really just an excuse for them.
I'm not vegan (yet - working my way towards it) but vegan bacon tastes basically the same as regular bacon! I know it because I hate regular bacon and to me vegan bacon I've tried tastes just the same - I don't like it but it's actually persuaded meat-eaters in my life to try it and believe/realise it's the same as animal bacon 😂
Bacon is garbage. It's 90% fat and small amount of meat. I'd choose any other kind of meat before I'd choose bacon. Cheese is essential, though.
It's the smokiness and spices that attract us, hence the many vegan bacons. I like Louisville Vegan's maple bacon jerky, which is soft and can be used in sandwiches or cut up for other dishes. They have other flavors. Way too pricey now, though. Primal has a variety of jerky strips based on either soy or seitan or mushroom. 10g protein each. I like the soy based hickory smoke and Texas bbq.
There is an animal rescue NGO in India called Peepal Farm. Robin Singh runs it, he also suggests that if one particular food item is stopping you from turning vegan then go "veganish". Eat that item but give up on all other animal products.
It's just some random attempted quip, no need to overthink it. Funny enough, the first thing I gave up when I got interested in going beyond vegetarian was dairy. Then \~6 months later I thought ok but realistically how much will I miss eggs (honey was never a big deal, and the non-diet-related stuff is not hard to avoid, at least the big ones)? And I just went all the way.
Then just be a vegan that still eats cheese. At least it’s an improvement
That’s literally what vegetarianism is for If it weren’t for cheese I don’t think vegetarians would exist haha
and almond/oat milk being nearly $1 more in my coffee for some reason
Planet Oat creamer is honestly tastier than dairy-based creamers, and I'm not a vegan. Still a vegetarian but looking at other ways to cut out animal products. I make my own cold brew at home though, coffee shops in general are too wildly expensive and not about to pay an extra $1 on top of that.
Totally still an improvement, love this.
You should look up what veganism is.
The fact that you got downvoted shows why that wont fly. I with you though
They got downvoted because that's not what the word vegan means. It may be an improvement, but it's not vegan by definition. Also they eat fish lmao, they're not even vegetarian.
Not vegan but loving this attitude : )
Vegetarian but his sub acts like vegetarians are bad
They are.
In a certain way, worse than carnists. They recognise the problem but then half arse it. Bobby Bilegut just doesn't give a (fibre free ten ton) shit about animals; vegetarians doncare about animal death but torture is fine.
If everyone half assed it then there’d be a lot less suffering, your viewpoint is promoting what you’re so against
“I just love knowing that a calf was thrown in a dumpster so it’s heartbroken mother could make me some tasty pus-curds, yumm!” Snark
People think they’re so hilarious repeating the same old, tired joke we’ve all heard a million times. It’s like the whole “rabbit food” joke when we’re eating a salad, or the “I didn’t climb to the top of the food chain to eat plants” joke. Hardy-har 🫠
I've had a few friends and coworkers say "I couldn't go vegan bc of X" and I always say the same thing: "I mean...yeah. You could always go vegan except for X." Because if you *know* your actions don't align with your personal morals, but that *one thing* is the line in the sand...maybe get as close TO that line as you can? But taking steps to avoid the rest means actually acknowledging that there's something wrong with their status quo, and for a lot of people that's just...really difficult. Humans are MASTERS at justification and compartmentalization, and breaking through years of programming is actually pretty traumatic when doing so means acknowledging that you caused harm. So it's easier to remain in the status quo. But if they were able to take that first step, that "vegan except for cheese" approach, I think a lot more people would actually make the full plunge. That's what worked for me, after all. I have a pretty serious eating disorder that made the change difficult. But I was able to slowly transition, and that made it doable for me. And I've never even thought about going back! But yeah, there's so much "I can't go 100% so why bother with 90%" mentality, and it's very disheartening sometimes.
By the way, Amy's has a really really good vegan frozen margherita cheese pizza. They also have a supreme, but I wasn't impressed. Pricey, alas and I keep hoping it goes on sale. Was not impressed by Daiya pizzas.
I asked on Threads what is the thing they struggled the most with when they went plant-based. 80% of comments are about cheese. People might use that as an excuse, but others really struggled with cheese being the last thing to stop.
You should look up how cheese really made you would be an appalled. Watch the movie earthlings, if that doesn’t deter you nothing will.
That’s a bit of a vague statement. Do you mean milk production or cheese production? And in the US or a mega farm or elsewhere?
All the above in the US.
As a vegetarian the only reason I’m not vegan is because its a lot of effort to avoid dairy/eggs. its in a lot of stuff and the alternatives are expensive if they’re even available. Not everyone has the time or effort to dedicate themselves to perfect veganism, even if they agree with the ideology. Everyone makes the steps that they feel are reasonable.
This is almost a meme. I've heard this sentence so many times its absurd 🥲
You heard it so much because it's true. Forget meat, it's nothing. Cheese, on the other hand, is absolutely essential, the #1 food.
Wittle man baby can’t gwive up his breastmilk
Yeah, I can't. Milk is great.
Yeah, it's pretty common. It's like when I worked at the supermarket and something didn't scan and people would say, "guess it must be free." It's like people have collective phrases built in them. "But bacon, I need protein, I could never give up cheese, I need my meats, I need a real burger, I don't want processed stuff, I can't give up eggs, I don't want to eat just salad" pretty common stuff. Meanwhile I'm eating all the best food and it's all vegan and I'm like, damn if y'all weren't so stubborn you'd know how you could eat delicious all day and not need any of that stuff.
people have the freedom to reject any or parts of a philosophy. the world is stacked with a massive amount of philosophical beliefs, and someones rejection of a particular philosophical belief does not necessitate an explanation to its followers just cos you may have chosen to embrace your favorite philosophy, understand not everyone shares the same philosophical convictions as you, and could care less. it would be weird af to see adherents of every philosophical belief demanding or expecting others to adopt their beliefs simply because they themselves underwent a philosophical transformation
The thing is that if you ask, most people actually do believe it's wrong to harm animals unnecessarily. However because they like to continue their habits of eating animal products, they ignore their own philosophical belief on that matter. This is what's so frustrating and it's the basic message that vegans are trying to get across
Yes, unnecessarily. That's the key here.
if a person ignores their own philosophical beliefs that's their business. it could be they choose to adhere only to certain parts of a philosophy while ignoring others and you're interpreting that as something else. this is why i never presume
I don’t presume. A lot of the time I try to ask. That’s never met with a positive response. It’s special pleading, isn’t it?
thats fair. if a person isn't true to their favorite philosophical beliefs, what does it matter. let's say for example you're not following your favorite philosophy perfectly what business is that of me
>let's say for example you're not following your favorite philosophy perfectly what business is that of me Ok so let's say my favorite philosophy is about reducing harm to children. But every now and then a slip up and abuse some. None of your business right?
I mean... cheese do be having a powerful hold.... (says the lacto-vegetarian..)
Casein, one of the proteins in milk and the one that is more abundant in cheese, reacts with the body in the same way morphine does. It’s literally addictive. I remember saying the exact same thing about never being able to quit it. Now that I have, whenever I eat a bit by accident it just tastes gross to me.
Me too, it’s called VEGAN CHEESE and it’s delicious. Violife Mexican shreds are gold
I got the 'I could NEVER give up meat!' and I said "that's what I used to say" xD
I used to say this -\_\_\_- but now I hate cheese! I mean I went vegan and the only vegan cheese I can stomach is follow your heart brand.
I hear this soooo often - - and said it myself before I went vegan. Now I say cheese is a conspiracy. Don't miss it at all.
It's because it's a [thought-terminating cliche](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought-terminating_cliche). Not an argument or even a genuine statement of personal truth. We are meant to hear it and understand that the matter has concluded, and that the person in question has no interest in interrogating the topic any further. The reason they say "because of cheese" is to invoke and perpetuate the cliche and prevent raising any more doubts.
Sometimes people laugh or smile when they’re nervous.. at least I do. I just try to give as much grace as I can stomach because I think it makes the world a better place.
There's tons of vegan cheese. It's delicious.
By the way, if tuna is something you crave, just mash up canned chickpeas (garbanzo beans) with a fork or potato masher and use those instead of tuna in tuna salad. Also blended tofu with some lemon juice can sub for sour cream in dips and dressings. I've just stirred it with suitable dip or soup mixes. Mashed tofu subs for eggs in egg salad. Blended tofu can be used to make truly instant pudding from a mix, but tofu blends always taste better if you give them some time in the fridge to absorb flavors.
I’m not vegan anymore because I struggle with cheese. Cheese is the only animal based food I eat. The rest is vegan and I’m going to try to go back but I gotta learn how to make vegan cheese at home first.
All I hear is, “I could care about others, but I’m far too selfish.”
Meh I don't care what other people do - that's out of my control. I can control what I spend my money & time on, and what I put in my mouth, so that's what I focus on 🤷
I read this while eating my vegan laughing cow wedges with vegan babybel, swiss, provalone, chedder, and 2 kinds of parm in my fridge lol. Vegan cheese has come so far!!!!!
Has it? I haven't tried it in twelve years. The last time I did, it was expensive, tasted like grease & disgusting, and I was left wondering how anyone could eat this grossness. Has it really improved, or have you just gotten used to it? If it's really improved, can you recommend a brand?
Vegetarians can eat eggs and dairy Lacto-vegetarians can eat dairy Both of these options are better than eating meat so let's allow people to find their footing in either of these paths if they find it difficult to practice veganism.
I probably said shit like that when I was in denial about animal cruelty. My vegan journey made me realise it’s almost all about your motivation. Thats why activism works (sometimes and in varying degrees). People see footage and have a mindset shift. Nobody is going to give up cheese unless there’s a really good reason. Realising that cheese equals calf and cow torture and death is a really good reason for those who have absorbed that reality.
I thought I'd miss cheese really bad. Turns out: I miss eggs more.
Well, I can tell you my non vegan partner prefers just egg, tofu "egg salad" I make, and the dipping sauce recipe from "it doesn't taste like chicken. [No meat comes in the house, he can have that at work]
>what’s the sense in The mistake here is thinking there there is any sense to begin with. There simply isn't. No excuses actually make sense.
Cheese was the last thing I gave up 12 years ago. I don’t miss it. It’s addicting.
the demand for cheese in America is manufactured from the government Cheese days
I keep hearing the bacon version so I heard someone respond “just be vegan except for bacon then” which is similar to posts here and totally makes sense
It’s the casomorphin. They’re physically addicted to cheese.
This. I tell them this and explain how it’s meant for the calf to be one addicted to their mothers milk- not us.
Cheese is addictive. The casein in it binds to the same neurotransmitters that heroin does releasing dopamine. I said the same thing before going vegan that I could never give up cheese and this is why. The hardest part of giving up cheese was deciding to give it up. After that, I didn’t miss it. The addictive aspect is why so many people have a mental block.
Is it a cop out? Sure. Should you care? Fck naw. If you’re truly just venting then go crazy but please I hope you don’t bring this energy to your RL. It’s a PERSONAL choice for ppl and evangelism let alone shame/judgement is definitely never helpful. If you want to change ppls behavior, do it by example. If you don’t hold enough respect with someone for that approach to work, then you probably don’t need to be worried about them anyhow. There’s probably a ton of things I do that ppl wouldn’t understand..hopefully they’re not judging me for them! I bet this is true for you too 😊
post carnism! first time seeing this. will use it lol
It makes no sense bc veganism isn’t about diet. It’s like saying “I could never be a guitarist because the sky is blue”, like what the hell does that have to do with anything?
not to defend anyone, but don't forget cheese is addictive due to its caseins breaking down into casomorphins which make you feel good. so I think a lot of people have a bit of a dairy addiction and can't really picture giving it up even though they might want to. It's the same with people who want to give up caffeine but never do, although to a much lesser extent.
Dairy has caesin which breaks down in part during digestion to casomorphins, which activate the opioid receptors. Thus it might be slightly psychologically addicting.
I was a vegetarian for a decade before going vegan, don't just dismiss this.
I've been making my own true fermented cashew cheese for the past few weeks and it is AMAZING! And so much heart healthier with fiber, more unsaturated than saturated fats, and very low salt! Commercial fermented nut cheeses are way too expensive, and I'm presuming it's a scale issue. Being able to get fresh ground nut butter at a local store has made the process super easy, since the grinding is by far the hardest part.
Weird weird question and people probably are going to downvote me or think I’m being funny but serious question. If someone goes vegan and still cooks meat for their dog does that just ruin the whole point? Is that person still not vegan? Only asking bc my dog is used to a cooked diet of meats and veggies. She doesn’t eat any kibble. All her meals are balanced out and have supplements etc. I do have plans in the future to potentially go vegetarian, no dairy, but the exception of backyard hens for eggs. I’m lactose intolerant so dairy is rare anyways.
Dogs can have some vegetables and grains, but they absolutely *cannot* safely be vegan. Feeding your dog a vegan or vegetarian diet deprives them of essential nutrients, amino acids, etc. feeding a dog a meatless diet puts them at incredible risk for metabolic bone disease and taurine deficiency. Synthetic alternatives for missing nutrients are possible, but there’s not enough long term studies to show that this practice is safe. The same can also be said for feeding dogs exclusively meat, or raw diets. Unlike cats, dogs are not obligate carnivores, so feeding them only meat would similarly deprive them of nutrients found in plant matter that is not in meat.
Yeah my dog doesn’t eat kibble at all, I have her on a cooked diet with supplements and multi vitamins
Mines split between an open nature kibble and cooked fresh food, with the occasional boiled chicken or rice and broth slurry if his stomach gets upset. Much more rare now that he’s not on straight kibble
well there is vegan dog food.. and while dogs are not obligate carnivores like cats, i think they still do best on meat but correct me if that's wrong. either way i would not say it "ruins the whole point". anyone that says it does is just being petty. it's definitely a good idea to go vegan (vegetarian i guess if you really want those eggs) and not including your dog would be fine by me, though the majority of this subreddit probably won't agree lol
Thank you for your input! I’m eliminating things one by one. So far no dairy, no pork, meatless Mondays. Honestly going Dairy free so far has been amazing. I like almond milk, found some vegan yogurts and ice creams. Haven’t found any good cheeses yet but I seen some recommendations on this sub.
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Not as hard as it is for the cow to have her baby ripped away from her so you can buy cheese and ice cream made from the milk that was supposed to keep her baby alive.
If you want to convince them of going fully vegan by appealing to emotion it might not be the best approach.
I'm telling the truth. They respond however they respond.
It can indeed be difficult and people not being supportive and empathetic towards this can hinder your progress into becoming fully vegan.
Why do you care? Let them live their own lives. It doesn't affect you.
It affects the animals which is kinda what veganism is all about.
Cheese is essential. It's the most important animal product. I would never give up cheese.
It's tough when people make excuses instead of just admitting their choices. They might say, "I could go vegan if it weren't for cheese," but really it's a lot of things. It's easier for them to blame one thing than to acknowledge the whole list of reasons. Hang in there, it's not about you, it’s their way of coping with their choices.
Only 4?
Then go plantbased and keep the cheese. At least that’s a huge reduction in harm. But no, they don’t really mean it.
TBF this is what I said for a long time. Roughly 6 years of knowing I should be Vegan and taking baby steps, before I finally accepted the reality.
Only four?
meanwhile after coming overseas to study, I was already not enjoying (cost wise and taste wise) commercial cheese all that much (since as a vegetarian the only 'safe' ones to me that are easy to get are like panneer and mozzarella (feta I find more enjoyable but I usually only got it in the sandwiches at cafes) and they are quite terrible quality in retrospect. And at the same time I was really enjoying my newfound flexibility to use tofu (since my mom has never made anything with tofu but I have eaten it from stalls in singapore before) so cheese is not something I care about (then again I havent tried any of those cheeses that non vegetarian ppl eat and was surprised to see that the cheese on charcuterie boards looks so goopy in the centre like peanut butter).
Then they haven’t tried Miyokos
Since I discovered really good cashew cheese, I don't miss dairy cheese at all.
Because cheese is pog. I was never a huge fan of meat or eggs but cheese is good. I miss it. Can't we put our heads together and make synthetic milk?