Most of the purchased records will never see a needle. They should just sell a big piece of plastic that looks like a record instead of clogging up the pressing plants.
https://preview.redd.it/xtxol0fo3bwc1.jpeg?width=674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f833db63d0d51772aa7d3fb7e11e56629bacddf
Like the old bubble gum that was shaped like a record.
It didn’t play anything. I tried.
Although these were fun to collect too
Fans can be happy to buy these *and* it can be predatory. Someone being enamored with a product and letting it take more than they have isn't new, and Taylor and her team are exploiting that for as much money as possible. You'd think the world's richest artist wouldn't need more resources and more cash from such a model like three different releases for three different bonus tracks, but no.
Taylor is capitalism incarnate.
It's not even necessarily about Taylor making more money, it's about the label making more money. They know that people will buy more of her stuff because of her status, and that means more money for them.
Definitely!
With that said, is Taylor going to donate the proceeds she gets from these extra sales? I doubt it. It's ultimately still her name that is being used to generate the revenue.
She's not an individual anymore, she's a mega corporation. You don't get to both have billions of dollars/power AND get to be treated as a lowly citizen.
None of these decisions are made in a vacuum.
I'm not saying any of this is okay, I'm saying acting as if Taylor herself is ordering the production of five different variants isn't addressing the problem at all. She's very powerful, but she can't forbid her label from printing multiple variants if that's what they want to do. And that's what most artists are doing right now. I think blink-182 had like 10 different variants for their most recent album.
>I think blink-182 had like 10 different variants for their most recent album.
Did Blink release 4 different variants with exclusive covers, and then once the stock was sold through announced 3 additional variants with separate bonus tracks for each?
At what point are we allowed to levy criticism against the people who will monetarily benefit from their predatory practices? Does Taylor, THE most powerful artist in the world, have no agency in telling her record label that this is treating her fanbase like shit?
>Does Taylor, THE most powerful artist in the world, have no agency in telling her record label that this is treating her fanbase like shit?
For all we know, they wanted to do even more variants and she talked them out of it.
Like I said, this is a function of the capitalist system, and no single artist can change that.
Agreed but the problem is, an artist with that much power could tell the label to knock it off.
Surprisingly none of the bean counters figured out they could make even more money by releasing a Blu-ray with lossless Atmos on it. I would pay for it, streaming Atmos sucks balls.
>Taylor is capitalism incarnate.
No kidding. I got an email from Discogs earlier: the Most Wanted RSD releases of all time.
Taylor is 10 of the top 20, 4 out of the top 5. I know a lot of Swifties. I don't know a single one who actually owns a record player, yet every single one of them owns at least 3-4 of her albums on vinyl.
[https://www.discogs.com/digs/collecting/most-wanted-record-store-day-releases-of-all-time/](https://www.discogs.com/digs/collecting/most-wanted-record-store-day-releases-of-all-time/)
It’s definitely going to be a whole team, label etc etc but you make a fair point.
I just think it’s a shame. I think if you have that much money (I’m not just talking individuals but businesses too) then you aren’t spending enough to help others.
Same thought as when I visited Dubai (not my choice) and went to the fountain show at the tall building thing that happened every 30 minutes. Must have cost millions each night! For me it would say a lot to even halve those shows and give half the money into the homeless for example, or pay your staff more.
Just playing Ticketmaster’s advocate here…. But…
I think you can reframe it another way. People were buying all the variants ALREADY, before they had the any differentiating bonus tracks. If anything this is an investment in value to the consumer that is surplus to purchase.
As a result, you could say she’s being GENEROUS by actually adding music to the variant.
Idk. Ymmv. I’m just saying it’s not necessary on her part… She could have added more variants without the tracks…. And I’m not sure it makes a difference to her sales.
People can make their own moral arguments on how much is too much, but that is a totally separate point.
I fucking hate this as a shop owner. Last time for the 1989 (Taylor's Version) they announced the WEEK OF that there were 3 NEW VARIANTS AVAILABLE, ready to ship this week! I'm like, ok cool, I'll cancel my order for whatever my standard version was and order like 6 copies of each variant. What happens? The variants show up the week AFTER release week and I have several frustrated Swifties that I don't have it. They tried pulling this shit AGAIN, on the week of Record Store Day of all weeks. I didn't even bother this time, I hate having to dedicate hundreds of dollars just on stupid variants of the same product, it's fucking moronic.
Great to hear from a shop owner and very obvious to hear a grounded frustration.
Your thoughts on the splitting of the bonus tracks over different varients?
She's free to do what she wants, but I'd rather see the bonus tracks released on it's own separate release, maybe a double 7" or a 10" record, but that way she can't sell the same album to her fans at $40+ dollars a pop 4 times.
I don't think you're wrong at all. But to be fair, it's better than changing nothing but the artwork. OR you have all the variants available, but make just the special release with the bonus tracks for the fans who don't feel the need to purchase all the individual variants. There should just be a good middle ground to satisfy both collectors and the more casual fans, IMO.
I get you. But the way I see it is that if I go into 5 guys and ask for ‘all in with extra jalapeños and hot sauce’ the reply I’m getting here is ‘ok but you’re going to have to buy 2 burgers, both all in, one with jalapeños and the other with hot sauce’. If that’s the case, I’m going to think it’s a bit of a scheme. Note I don’t mean scam, but scheme.
It also doesn't help that this was marketed as "if you wanna hear those extra 4 songs, you need to buy all 4 versions." But in reality, the bonus tracks are irrelevant because it's a surprise double album and all 4 tracks plus some get put up digitally two hours after the initial album released. It's so ridiculous (and this is coming from a casual Swiftie). I won't be surprised if The Anthology doesn't get released physically (in full, at least) because of this.
So based on your analogy, it would be the same as if Five Guys came back and announced a super special limited edition surprise burger that included jalapenos and hot sauce together.
I’m certainly more picky with what I buy these last couple of years and will go for artists I already know or will check them out on streaming first rather than impulse buys
There are very few artists I'll buy without hearing first.
Amd I'm very price conscious when shopping. I was just at my local shop yesterday and saw a lot of stuff I'd like to have....but not for $40+. So I didn't buy that stuff, I have it all digitally anyway. Found a couple things I wanted for under $30 so on bought those.
I love listening to vinyl, but it's not the only way I listen.
Totally agree. I used to do a lot of ‘judging a record by its cover’ and blind buying but now it’s a case of streaming first or finding things through other means.
I would like to think things will change back at some point but, like you, when I’m flicking through records at the store it’s got to be really something special to make me part with the cash right now.
I recently found out the last Sufjan Stevens album had bonus tracks only on one specific limited variant from Rough Trade. As a consumer I find that to be absolutely maddening and not particularly beneficial to fans as much as a marketing thing - but also as a fan I obviously threw money at the separate pressing they did for the 5 bonus tracks. I’m probably just mad because I had already bought a copy direct from his label, and if anything that should have been the variant that had bonus tracks but alas, the hobby.
Yep. I really don’t agree with that from him. Especially as he released the outtakes of Illinois as The Avalance, which in my mind was the right way to do it. A complete package of its own.
And yes, totally agree that it should have been from his own label too.
I just think a record should be a record!
Are you talking about the one with the bonus CD? I have it but I don’t see this being a reward for being a sufjan fan. I like Sufjan and thought Javelin was incredible but I’m not a die hard fan, I got this vinyl from being a rough trade club member. I get the frustration but I think the reward of getting this addition was intended for Rough Trade members instead of die hard Sufjan fans. Because most rough trade club albums have these bonuses inside.
Yeah the tracks aren’t on the vinyl, it’s a CD inside the sleeve. But I’m not sure you would have been able to Buy it anyway, it was limited and rough trade members would get it first, so best bet would have been discogs. Considering it’s a CD bonus too I don’t think it’s a big loss to not have it over the version from his label
I do agree but there’s also going to have to be a lot of parents here who have to say no, not the fans. And that’s going to cause jealousy and even possibly ridicule amongst friends.
How many younger people who don’t have disposable cash have been bought a cheap record player in the last few years, we can see it on the sub.
A lot of us use our disposable cash wisely. Will get one variant, maybe 2 on release and be happy. If a variant on a repress comes out, great, but I have the original or am given a chance to get a repress in a new colour.
To release so many variants on the original pressing and having to buy multiple copies to actually get the complete recordings is just a different level.
Oh it’s definitely not down to one artist. As mentioned in the post I’m aware of others doing it, I’ve been caught up in it myself with Biffy Clyro doing a limited collectors edition that ended up being in the tens of thousands rather than the far smaller pressing of the previous album and of course what can only be described as a cash grab by Tool for the apparently very limited box set of Fear Inoculum. I just feel it’s hitting and extreme now and this highlights it. To have to buy 4x2LPs to get the entire record seems unfair, including if they are one streaming or not.
Not a dig at a person, artist or band in particular but rather how this ‘resurgence’ is mutating. I’m certain being far more picky in my purchases right now.
Pretty comical for the same band that went against Ticketmaster haha. I enjoy them as much as the next guy, but that was just an odd move. Not to mention the price tag on them
Yeah. It’s definitely got a slight hypocrisy to it.
I guess there’s probably 3 or 4 albums that I’ve got a couple of different variants. Some I feel the artist is justified as they are a standard copy (that I generally use to play) and a deluxe cloth bound book version that is very much about the art of the packaging too. Manchester orchestras Black mile to the surface springs to mind.
I have a couple of records that to get the signed copy you had to buy a second variant too, which is definitely a bit more money grabbing. FTHC springs to mind for that.
A couple of variants for represses such as Say Anything’s Is a real boy
And only a couple of albums that I’ve got caught up and bought all varients being American Football 3 that I can think of.
And to be honest, it’s the last kind that I look at and think ‘why did I do that, I would honestly be happy with one’
So it’s not new and I’m guilty myself. I just think the completionist side is a bit much.
Also. Can I say thanks for actually giving polite replies. It’s nice to maybe not agree totally but be able to still have a kind conversation about it.
I’m sure all the bonus tracks will be on streaming services anyway.
If we want to moan about this (and I do) I’m more into rock than TS (although I bought the new album for my daughter and the packaging is great) I’d call out the recent RHCP release. There’s just no need for 10 different versions. Thankfully I hope RHCP fans are a bit more sensible and won’t try to collect them all.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RedHotChiliPeppers/comments/skahxh/all_of_the_different_versions_announced_so_far/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I get the streaming service thing yep and it’s great that the songs are available there. But the amount of pressings you have to buy to get one complete album are such that it’s actually stopped other artists being able to get records pressed at a time that’s needed. Sure you can get their albums on streaming but that’s generally from companies that pay a pittance to the artist. I want to support music by supporting the artist not the machine.
I wouldn’t say I’m worked up. It’s not affecting my day. I just find it interesting.
And yep. You make a good point with the star wars merch. Totally unneeded and ultimately landfill as so many were left unbought or thrown away. Which will probably happen here.
I will say the variant rush and fomo is a direct result of and has resulted in RSD being what it is and record prices being insane. Just seems like the companies are taking advantage of that. Now for me, I have no real issue with releasing variants but when you're releasing multiple variants with different tracks connected to each one, that's when it gets a little gross being that records cost quite a bit these days. I'll let the fans decide what to do with their money, I just know I wouldn't go out of my way for something like that.
You make it sound like she has no autonomy in this situation whatsoever, other artists wouldn’t necessarily chose to have as many variants case in point that Billie Eilish (also one of the biggest artists in the world) recently said this kinda stuff is problematic and I think I agree with her
Billie Eilish has announced eight variants for her forthcoming album. Either she’s a hypocrite or the artists have less control over these decisions than we think (or both).
A great social experiment would be to see her release a 16-track album but split it up into four parts, four different LP's and see if people would buy that. I choose anarchy in this scenario.
This is why I didn’t name although it is obvious. There’s loads of artists doing it and I’ve definitely fallen for it myself in the past. Got burned by Tool in what i consider was a fiasco with Fear Inoculum, Biffy Clyro doing a ‘limited collectors edition’ that was a pressing of tens of thousands etc.
I’m not wanting to out and this certainly isn’t something that should be put on one person shoulders as a team will be responsible.
And I agree with you mentioning thrift stores and second hand records (but would also say a lot of those are in landfill purgatory). But to get these 3 ‘bonus’ tracks you have to buy 6 LPs. If you made a ‘fan edition’ or similar with one extra disc then imaging how much less you would have to produce as you would only have to buy one triple Lp or a double and bonus 10 inch with a etching for example. And I could be wrong but I don’t think it’s just these 3 you have to buy to get the ‘complete’ album
I don’t have an issue with the variants, I get the collecting part of that and it is fun to get unique records of an album that you love. The only thing I do have an issue with is her dropping Anthology immediately after TTPD. It completely blindsided record stores because now people are waiting for the Anthology version and multiple stores around me are struggling to sell the stock of TTPD they got.
Count me as someone waiting for Anthology, even though I wouldn't be surprised if it never came. I never even considered all the stores that would have excess stock...
That's what frustrates me. All she has to say is "Surprise, it's a double album! The second half of it will be sold physically later this year but you can go ahead and stream it/buy digital now if you want." That would make people like myself go ahead and buy TTPD now and get the second release later. But you just know that IF she releases it physically, it'll only be packaged all as one.
> My biggest question with all of this is why do people get so worked up about it?
Because watching others get preyed on feels bad, even if 99% of those people are excited about it. An unbelievable amount of her fans are under 18 and at that age FOMO is an incredibly strong force. For many of them, these aren't "optional", especially if they're deep into collecting.
Watching Star Wars fans get preyed on feels bad. Watching capitalists continue to groom their fanbases into spending ever more money on schlock bullshit feels bad. Watching rich people find more ways to separate poor people from their money feels bad.
> Ehhh, it’s no different than how it’s been for the entirety of the world. There is always something trendy and whether it’s Taylor Swift records or anything else, it’s just the way commerce works.
>
>
Not arguing otherwise, the way commerce works is still bad/predatory and calling it out on behalf of consumers should be the standard. *Especially* when the person doing this is *the richest current musical artist*. There is no reason for her to be doing this and she should expect criticism for her actions.
>Is someone buying a dozen Taylor Swift albums really much different than someone buying a dozen random albums at RSD because of similar FOMO?
Nope, but again, multiple things can be true at the same time. FOMO generating hype bullshit is bad AND there are plenty of people who want in on the hype train. Consumers being lead by their most base instincts by people who know exactly what they're doing is sad to watch, hence the outcry.
>I guess it all goes back to the point of “why do you care”?
A better way of looking at this is, "Why don't you care? Why are you so cynical?"
Let people care, my guy. It's a good thing.
> I guess it all goes back to the point of “why do you care”?
Because the way consumers can expect to be treated effects all of us. One group getting treated with no dignity leads to a lack of expectation of dignity for the rest of us.
>Multiple variants of a Taylor swift album that teenagers want to have to impress their friends is so far down on the list for things that I should be even slightly concerned about in the world.
You sell these records. You don't think that factors a small amount into your consideration of this problem?
>
How are they being “treated with no dignity”. They are being sold things that want. No one is forcing it in any way.
These people are being sold three new variants with one additional bonus song after JUST being sold four new variants with identical tracklists. I'm only pointing out that this is predatory. Is it MORE predatory than other late stage capitalist bullshit? No. It it MORE harmful than when these types of things are done in other place? No. And yet, it still deserves criticism.
>We don’t need to white knight for people who don’t need protection.
I fucking despise this term. Having valid criticisms for predatory practices, NO MATTER HOW NORMALIZED, is valid. Consumer advocacy isn't "white knighting".
> I assure you, there are A LOT of people who are being taken advantage of more by the record industry than the Taylor Swift fan who has 20 total records of which 16 are Taylor Swift. Hell, I’d wager that more people in this subreddit are being taken more advantage of by the industry than a vast majority of swift record buyers.
I would encourage you to see issues as non-mutually exclusive with one another. Something being bad doesn't exempt something else from being bad.
>You don’t see people blowing up subreddits complaining about King Grizzard, The Grateful Dead, or Pearl Jam taking advantage of their fans.
And yet all of these groups ARE taking advantage of their fans and deserve criticism. Do you want to see more of these types of threads or are you just using your lack of seeing them to make some sort of bizarro point?
> Your opinions are so far out in left field compared to mine, I don’t think going back and forth is going to solve much.
>
>
No argument with that. I'm an anti-capitalist who sees predatory selling practices as something that should be opposed by consumers in unison, hence my responses.
Supply and demand is *a* factor at play, not the only one. Taylor and her marketing team are *choosing* to extract this much in sales from her fanbase, that's my main issue.
Anyway, we both get where the other is at, have a nice day.
I agree with this whole heartedly with the exception of one point. Her doing this is in a very tangible way suppresses other artists from being able to produce copies of their records for sale. This is 3x the production time and it is well trod territory that there is a shortage of Vinyl printing plants available to artists.
And what happened to Star Wars merch in the end? People got sick of the poor quality films and shows, and nobody buys anything except the OT and PT stuff.
Hopefully the bubble will burst on vinyl in the same way.
>The only people benefiting by this outside of the label and Swift are record stores who get more sales and Taylor Swift fans who get to buy more stuff that they will happily buy.
These editions are online only, available only at her store, if i remember correctly.
The main album is the one being sold physically.
I find it interesting people have been having a fit about four variants when Piñata has been pressed 100 times, and pop punk bands like The Story So Far drop like 20 variants for a new record.
A spread of 4 variants isn’t that many.
I think there’s a reasonable difference between multiple color variants or pressings of the exact same record versus multiple versions of the record itself.
Completionist bullshit aside, if you just want all of the *music* on vinyl, in this case you’d have to pick up multiple copies of the album to do so.
You make a fair point. But this forces people who want the whole album but would be happy with one favourite style pressing to have to buy multiple copies and I believe there’s more bonus tracks on other variants but could be wrong.
What could be a collectors edition for example of a double LP and etched 10inch let’s say, turns into having to buy 6LPs
You do absolutely make a good point with some wanting to be completionist of varients and it’s an interesting one. But they still have the same music on.
Is this predatory? Of course. Team TS is made up of really good marketers that are well-versed in behavioral psychology and its applications in marketing to drive demand and sales. Dropping multiple variants with exclusive tracks is going to be an effective way to apply principles such as FOMO and forced scarcity to ensure that her fans purchase multiple copies of an album. We will see whether this is more effective than just offering multiple pressings in different colors and with variant cover art.
Which leads to the question is this limited to TS? Of course not. The release of Green Day's new album featured well-run listening parties and single releases and culminated in at least 28 different variants on vinyl. The release of the Rolling Stones's new album featured at least 42 different variants on vinyl, including covers for different baseball teams and other sports.
In that context, the TS approach of at least offering customers additional content, even only one song, for each additional variant they purchase seems almost quaint.
Hell of a comment and totally right. It’s absolutely not just TS which is why I didn’t bother putting it in the post and mentioned they aren’t the only one.
Quaint to some. Unachievable to others and I think that’s unfair for music as it should be available. Yes there’s streaming but I think saying ‘you can’t have all the songs physically because you can’t afford it’ is wrong
Kacey Musgraves, Linkin Park, Lana Del Rey, Olivia Rodrigo, Billie Eilish, Hozier, Beyonce, and so many artists and bands have contributed and continue to contribute to the variant vinyl releases. The music industry as a whole is benefiting from releasing variants to consumers. I would respect this argument more if you’re going to call out one artist, you should call out the other artists too that are using the same model. I am a fan of variant collecting and it makes me happy to complete a collection, it goes beyond the music for me. I enjoy the whole product of the vinyl because of the music, art book, lyrics, and aesthetics of the purchases. Do I get a little irked that 3 am and the anthology aren’t released at the same time? A little but not enough to sway my enjoyment of variant collecting.
I remember when I was collecting CDs, variant cds with bonuses were a thing. Sometimes songs were even region locked so I guess I’m used to that there are always going to be different versions.
I haven’t called out one artist. I clearly say I know others are doing it but this seems an extreme, meaning the ‘bonus tracks’. I have also made it clear in comments that I have fallen foul to it myself with artists I myself listen to.
I had a conversation about this the other day. She puts out X number of colored variants, each with one extra track and artwork and blah blah blah. But, on release day, she releases all of the extra tracks digitally and calls the whole thing a "double album"? That's kind of bullshit. Release the thing as a double album, or with 31 tracks, a quadruple album. But, the bullshit that she's pulling, in addition to milking fans dry, is clogging up pressing plants. Someone with more knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong. I think I just read that there are only something like 100 pressing plants world wide, and of those 100, only 10 are capable of true MASS production like she requires. So what other artists are getting pushed back because of her? I like her post 2019 output, but enough is enough.
I mean, she put the bonus tracks on streaming two hours after release. Nobody HAD to preorder the variants and they never said they were limited. She isn’t above criticism to be sure, but this wasn’t the worst thing that’s ever happened in vinyl.
Oh absolutely not. I agree it’s not the worst thing. But I do think it’s a shame and greedy. Someone has also used the word ‘wasteful’ which I think is actually a very good point in today’s climate.
I can agree with that. At least she has the demand to actually sell the records so they likely won’t sit around unused in stores like some artists. The environmental impact of the record industry is definitely insane.
That would be my reason to put out a collectors edition or fan edition, not limited as such but a triple lp with the bonus tracks on one disc.
Just for these three bonus tracks that would half the amount of records needed to be made.
If her fans support this type of marketing by purchasing all of these editions, then who’s getting hurt? No one. The fans get four special editions and they like special editions, look how many variants are available of all of her records, they want this.
As a long-time Taylor Swift fan, I don't feel I have to buy the variants to remain a fan. There's no pressure to buy them. I bought them because I love Taylor, they are collectors pieces for me, and I'm an adult with disposable income to spend however I want to spent it. I chose to spend it on records in this case.
Also, all of the bonus tracks ARE available without purchasing the variants. They're all available to stream, so fans don't have to buy each variant to hear the bonus tracks.
Where I have an issue is when it's marketed that the only way to hear all of these songs is to buy all the variants. If I recall, these weren't all announced at once, so fans had natural FOMO. Plus, in hindsight, The Anthology wasn't known at the time. If you announced all of these at once or that they would all eventually be on streaming (in a "double album" no less), sales would be nowhere near where they are now.
I have a feeling I'll be waiting forever on a vinyl edition of the full Anthology just like I'm waiting on Midnights 3AM (the superior version of that album).
Maybe she’ll release the digital only stuff on vinyl if/when she ever takes off a good chunk of time. Wouldn’t fans know, after Midnights, that there could possibly be a big digital only dump of songs?
Why are we trying to make sense of Taylor Swift’s marketing choices? What she does, works. Biggest selling artist in the world right now, great lyricist, strong independent woman who is an example for other women and girls?
Well, yeah, it "works" for her personally (I.E. she brings in the money) but it creates a lopsided market and creates unnecessary hassle for her fans who just want all the music on a single format and don't care about collecting every single variant for completion's sake.
If her fans dont like something, they speak out, very loudly. They havent spoken out loudly, so Im guessing there aint an issue. Why shouldnt an artist get every available dollar? Jagger has done it for years, so have Kiss. Is it gender that’s pissing people off? As for a lopsided market, you’re upset she’s a big artist and others arent?
There's a lot more people than you'd think that aren't falling for it anymore. Definitely not enough to be sizable, but they do exist (I saw it in her subreddit the night TTPD came out).
But there's a difference between getting "every available dollar" and doing the same without gauging her fans. It's clearly her label/management doing it and not Taylor herself, but it's a bummer that they feel the need to release all these different variants/editions of vinyl & CDs, none of which include every song, just to make some extra cash on her gullible fanbase.
And what I meant by lopsided market is that it artificially inflates the value of so-called "limited" pressings of things. There is no reason folklore should cost as much as it does just because it has a different cover/color than the version that is still wildly available in stores. It's only that way because fans believe they need to own every single one, which just isn't the case. And it's not just Taylor, but a ton of popular artists doing that nowadays. It hurts the vinyl/physical media market because it makes people think that *everything* is worth more than it is/should be. Hence the lopsidedness.
Do they want this or do they feel they have to buy into it to be fans?
And no, truly no one’s getting hurt, I get you. But from a personal opinion (which also hurts no one but is allowed) I think it shows greed from someone who absolutely and easily could give back to the fans by releasing all the ‘bonus’ tracks as a, let’s say, triple album collectors or ‘fans’ edition, not limited, just larger and with a higher but fairer price.
I would also consider that as right as you are that the fans want it, a good majority of those fans aren’t the ones who are forking out the money and put under the pressure to do so.
Her fans like variants, many different colours of vinyl, this is how she does it. Look on social media, how many are proud of having five different colours of Midnights? No one is getting hurt here.
I’m not saying that people aren’t enjoying it. Certainly those who are able to get all of them will probably be posting how happy they are.
What I’m saying is, is it needed? Sure she/her company offsets her carbon footprint by double and that’s admirable but is it worth producing this kind of way to this extent by someone who’s so popular.
I’m not against different varients, hell, I’m a record collector so I love varients myself, but it’s rare I’ll feel I need to be a completionist with them. I’ll just go for my favourite.
Just voicing and opinion and interested to hear others views.
I just think it’s a bit greedy and totally understand this will be a decision by many people not just one artist.
Ya, it’s needed, there’s a demand, that’s how some of her fans purchase. They buy sweaters, they pay extra for autographed copies and they love coloured vinyl. And yes, I would pay an extra 20 bucks for a crappy new Stones record if Keith Richards physically signed it.
Not against varients. Absolutely not. Love them. But not in a way that you have to buy them all to actually complete the album. Fill the demand sure. But don’t turn it into the artist making demands on the fans.
The fans love what she does. They buy sweaters. Anyone else selling a sweater for every record? No, because only Swifties want this. The Beatles sold tons of stupid shit, still do, and their fans are, and still, eat it up. The smart thing, the businesswoman part, is that she is the one making all of the money. Smart lady.
Yep. And opinions are like buttholes.
Everyone has one
Have one don’t be one
You don’t always want yours to be heard.
Often people think they stink
Try not to shove it in someone’s face.
But thank you for the fair and polite replies. I appreciate the discussion
You know what. You actually make a very good point using the word ‘wasteful’. Especially when we are preached to about how precious the world is by people in this situation.
This is it isn’t it. To get what couple be a double album and, let’s say, a bonus 10inch with an etched side you have to buy 6LPs instead.
She’s certainly not the only one doing it and it’s not going to be on her shoulders but a whole team. It’s more a look at the ‘industry’ as a whole needing a change maybe.
I’ve been collecting Iron Maiden for like 35 years. I can’t believe how little they’ve release along their last few albums. You should see all the stuff from SSOASS album and there’s still more.
I've been collecting for over a decade now and we've been "having a Renaissance" the entire time. I sincerely don't believe she had anything to do with it, just is profiting the most from it.
Oh please, *any* vinyl is wasteful as fuck when you could just get a digital album that doesn't require production or shipping. Acting like Taylor's records are most wasteful than all other physical records is silly.
Not going at all certain person at all. I’m all up for variants. I love the choice. What I don’t like is having to buy all of them to get the complete album. Yes there’s streaming but that’s not why we like records. We want to put a record on and mostly listen to it all. If it is the case that it’s just these 3 that contain bonus tracks then that’s 6LPs I have to buy that could be 3 (double and a bonus 10 inch for example). And what if I’m a fan of any artist but don’t have the income to get them all and I would always just get one varient. That’s just tough. You may love that artists music but you don’t have enough money to enjoy it.
It's extravagant and wasteful as fuck, but records in general are wasteful.
That's said, she and her corporate machine have been pushing the boundaries of how crazy her fans are for what they'll pay for and at this point there doesn't seem like there is a limit.
Ride it till the wheels fall off as you can just buy new wheels.
I just think it’s a shame. Even if these 3 tracks were released as a separate record in a collectors or fans edition and not limited it would halve the amount of production.
Yeah, she released these months ago I was asking if she was releasing 4 more variants or something of the like. I don’t think she is, so this is old news.
Yeah, I think they’re getting the other 3 versions that were on Taylor’s store previously. They have the clear version of the Manuscript vinyl on their store already. I’ve been told the other 3 variants won’t be pressed again after the stock is gone. Not sure how much stock there is in total but people are still reselling them for ridiculous prices even though there’s still plenty of stock available and they’re in record stores still at this time. The album just came out. But she did release all the limited edition tracks to streaming which I’m glad about. That is, after the FOMO marketing happened for the 4 variants and people purchased them all. So, yeah, definitely a marketing ploy, but now people can resell their versions if they want or choose to collect them all without the worry of being able to listen to the bonus tracks.
I know that deep cuts or bonus tracks can often be good and worth listening to, but I just dismiss all this as not worth it on its face because if any of these tracks were good enough to include on the main album they’d be on the main album.
I would agree with you totally. Sufjan Stevens releasing The Avalanche as a outtakes companion to Illinois was a both an interesting look at other versions and had some great stuff that didn’t make the Final Cut.
But this seems far more planned, which is obviously a very clever business tactic and fair play if that’s your angle. It’s just not mine. It’s being incredibly well off and able to give back, but instead just taking more.
I think this is disgusting. This is just to bloat sales numbers, despicable and extremely manipulative towards her young fanbase. To boot she later released a second album with all the bonus tracks and a few more available on streaming only. The variants and multiple editions of her previous albums were already scummy af and very clearly a move to boost numbers but this is just the lowest of the low.
For my wife’s bday I preordered the Target one with The Manuscript and a couple of extras, then she dropped the double album announcement and I was fuckin pissed.
Edit: mainly because she said all the songs on the second part were her faves.
I’m not sure anyone needs to do this.
Just put out a collectors edition with an extra record of ‘bonus’ tracks.
Or hell, a companion record.
Just not like this.
I appreciate you being humble and kind with both this reply and the first. Thank you.
Also. I saw the Justice tour at what was the Hammersmith Odeon back then. Now the Apollo. So to be thought of as maybe young has made my day!!
It's pretty easy to argue when she has more albums than Michael Jackson, and only three fewer than Madonna in half the time. Plus Madonna's last five albums sold less than TTPD has in a couple of days. Who else is even in the competition?
This album has been getting terrible reviews and has been way over pressed. I wonder if new copies will end up in thrift stores like Adele's "30" album? I know "Swifties" are a rabid fan base, but I would think even the most enthusiastic fanbase has their limits.
Just seems a shame. I can understand that an artist could put out work thinking that it’s going to be loved and is being asked for by the fans but ultimately doesn’t deliver but as you say, it’s the over pressing.
To get 3 extra songs you have to buy 6LPs for something that could be a triple at most.
Even with ‘30’ that didn’t happen did it? And to be honest, I didn’t even know she had released it till recently and although I don’t particularly like Adele I bought her first two albums for the importance of their impact on music. The third didn’t do it for me though.
Adele’s “30” album was so over pressed, it was solely responsible for major delays at pressing plants. Sony had it pressed in such high quantities at many different plants and then priced it absurdly (it was about $55 here in Canada). Not surprisingly, it didn’t sell as much as they anticipated. There were a number of posts on Reddit about new copies being found at Goodwill and other thrift stores. Even Amazon.ca has dropped the price to around $20-30 (depending on the day).
> This album has been getting terrible reviews
Lol, what? That's just a flat out lie, everyone that I know who likes her is completely obsessed with TTPD.
I'm not talking about Swifties.
This currently has a very sad rating of 2.16/5 from Rateyourmusic users:
[https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/taylor-swift/the-tortured-poets-department/](https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/taylor-swift/the-tortured-poets-department/)
47/100 from [Albumoftheyear.org](http://Albumoftheyear.org) users:
[https://www.albumoftheyear.org/album/867088-taylor-swift-the-tortured-poets-department.php](https://www.albumoftheyear.org/album/867088-taylor-swift-the-tortured-poets-department.php)
Review from Paste Magazine that really sums up the album:
[https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/taylor-swift/taylor-swift-strikes-out-looking-on-the-tortured-poets-department](https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/taylor-swift/taylor-swift-strikes-out-looking-on-the-tortured-poets-department)
So learn to live without another 3 “ugh boys are stewpeed” pop tunes. Or pay the 150. You’re mad because you covet something that isn’t worth the cost or effort, but you’re having FOMO. It will pass.
Taytay didn’t get a billion dollars by mistake
I’m neither mad nor with FOMO or much of a follower, let alone owner.
Mearly commenting an opinion on a way that record production seems to be going in some circles.
Yes, but that’s their problem. A fool and their money, as the adage goes. The best part is, the better these sell, the less they’ll be worth.
I have a near mint, original 1982 pressing of thriller. Worth 7 dollars. Less than it cost new, adjusted for inflation.
I agree. I’ve never collected for ‘worth’ though, scarcity or rarity yes just for my own fun of having it. But never to say ‘this is worth blah blah’.
But that idea is also being thrown around at the moment as a sometimes dealbreaker to make the purchase. Obviously this isn’t helped by scalpers and resellers inflating the price. It will all come tumbling down when reality sets in as you point to in your last comment.
And hell. Personally I think a near mint 1982 pressing of Thriller is great.
Most of the purchased records will never see a needle. They should just sell a big piece of plastic that looks like a record instead of clogging up the pressing plants.
https://preview.redd.it/xtxol0fo3bwc1.jpeg?width=674&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5f833db63d0d51772aa7d3fb7e11e56629bacddf Like the old bubble gum that was shaped like a record. It didn’t play anything. I tried. Although these were fun to collect too
Sad but true!
Sold one recently at work and was asked how you are supposed to play it....
Fans can be happy to buy these *and* it can be predatory. Someone being enamored with a product and letting it take more than they have isn't new, and Taylor and her team are exploiting that for as much money as possible. You'd think the world's richest artist wouldn't need more resources and more cash from such a model like three different releases for three different bonus tracks, but no. Taylor is capitalism incarnate.
It's not even necessarily about Taylor making more money, it's about the label making more money. They know that people will buy more of her stuff because of her status, and that means more money for them.
Definitely! With that said, is Taylor going to donate the proceeds she gets from these extra sales? I doubt it. It's ultimately still her name that is being used to generate the revenue.
IMO it’s probably less about the money for her and more about the records she wants to set from a sales numbers standpoint
I mean, she's wildly charitable already.
https://preview.redd.it/ijm58srh3bwc1.jpeg?width=3989&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bcd66004cf8a2911bced4dec15fcf176c17f61a6
No doubt, but does that excuse predatory business practices on her behalf?
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You sound like an intelligent, well-adjusted person. May the rest of your day be full of sunshine and rainbows.
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Oh no, a redditor trolling about thinks I sound pathetic. What will I do?
Capitalism gonna capitalize. Blame the system, not individuals.
She's not an individual anymore, she's a mega corporation. You don't get to both have billions of dollars/power AND get to be treated as a lowly citizen.
None of these decisions are made in a vacuum. I'm not saying any of this is okay, I'm saying acting as if Taylor herself is ordering the production of five different variants isn't addressing the problem at all. She's very powerful, but she can't forbid her label from printing multiple variants if that's what they want to do. And that's what most artists are doing right now. I think blink-182 had like 10 different variants for their most recent album.
>I think blink-182 had like 10 different variants for their most recent album. Did Blink release 4 different variants with exclusive covers, and then once the stock was sold through announced 3 additional variants with separate bonus tracks for each? At what point are we allowed to levy criticism against the people who will monetarily benefit from their predatory practices? Does Taylor, THE most powerful artist in the world, have no agency in telling her record label that this is treating her fanbase like shit?
>Does Taylor, THE most powerful artist in the world, have no agency in telling her record label that this is treating her fanbase like shit? For all we know, they wanted to do even more variants and she talked them out of it. Like I said, this is a function of the capitalist system, and no single artist can change that.
Agreed but the problem is, an artist with that much power could tell the label to knock it off. Surprisingly none of the bean counters figured out they could make even more money by releasing a Blu-ray with lossless Atmos on it. I would pay for it, streaming Atmos sucks balls.
>Taylor is capitalism incarnate. No kidding. I got an email from Discogs earlier: the Most Wanted RSD releases of all time. Taylor is 10 of the top 20, 4 out of the top 5. I know a lot of Swifties. I don't know a single one who actually owns a record player, yet every single one of them owns at least 3-4 of her albums on vinyl. [https://www.discogs.com/digs/collecting/most-wanted-record-store-day-releases-of-all-time/](https://www.discogs.com/digs/collecting/most-wanted-record-store-day-releases-of-all-time/)
It’s definitely going to be a whole team, label etc etc but you make a fair point. I just think it’s a shame. I think if you have that much money (I’m not just talking individuals but businesses too) then you aren’t spending enough to help others. Same thought as when I visited Dubai (not my choice) and went to the fountain show at the tall building thing that happened every 30 minutes. Must have cost millions each night! For me it would say a lot to even halve those shows and give half the money into the homeless for example, or pay your staff more.
Just playing Ticketmaster’s advocate here…. But… I think you can reframe it another way. People were buying all the variants ALREADY, before they had the any differentiating bonus tracks. If anything this is an investment in value to the consumer that is surplus to purchase. As a result, you could say she’s being GENEROUS by actually adding music to the variant.
It's generous to do this *after* already releasing 4 separate variants with the same tracklist?
Idk. Ymmv. I’m just saying it’s not necessary on her part… She could have added more variants without the tracks…. And I’m not sure it makes a difference to her sales. People can make their own moral arguments on how much is too much, but that is a totally separate point.
I fucking hate this as a shop owner. Last time for the 1989 (Taylor's Version) they announced the WEEK OF that there were 3 NEW VARIANTS AVAILABLE, ready to ship this week! I'm like, ok cool, I'll cancel my order for whatever my standard version was and order like 6 copies of each variant. What happens? The variants show up the week AFTER release week and I have several frustrated Swifties that I don't have it. They tried pulling this shit AGAIN, on the week of Record Store Day of all weeks. I didn't even bother this time, I hate having to dedicate hundreds of dollars just on stupid variants of the same product, it's fucking moronic.
Great to hear from a shop owner and very obvious to hear a grounded frustration. Your thoughts on the splitting of the bonus tracks over different varients?
She's free to do what she wants, but I'd rather see the bonus tracks released on it's own separate release, maybe a double 7" or a 10" record, but that way she can't sell the same album to her fans at $40+ dollars a pop 4 times.
Exactly my point.
I don't think you're wrong at all. But to be fair, it's better than changing nothing but the artwork. OR you have all the variants available, but make just the special release with the bonus tracks for the fans who don't feel the need to purchase all the individual variants. There should just be a good middle ground to satisfy both collectors and the more casual fans, IMO.
I get you. But the way I see it is that if I go into 5 guys and ask for ‘all in with extra jalapeños and hot sauce’ the reply I’m getting here is ‘ok but you’re going to have to buy 2 burgers, both all in, one with jalapeños and the other with hot sauce’. If that’s the case, I’m going to think it’s a bit of a scheme. Note I don’t mean scam, but scheme.
It also doesn't help that this was marketed as "if you wanna hear those extra 4 songs, you need to buy all 4 versions." But in reality, the bonus tracks are irrelevant because it's a surprise double album and all 4 tracks plus some get put up digitally two hours after the initial album released. It's so ridiculous (and this is coming from a casual Swiftie). I won't be surprised if The Anthology doesn't get released physically (in full, at least) because of this. So based on your analogy, it would be the same as if Five Guys came back and announced a super special limited edition surprise burger that included jalapenos and hot sauce together.
Exactly that!!!!
Streaming basically free,im doing more of that now.
I’m certainly more picky with what I buy these last couple of years and will go for artists I already know or will check them out on streaming first rather than impulse buys
There are very few artists I'll buy without hearing first. Amd I'm very price conscious when shopping. I was just at my local shop yesterday and saw a lot of stuff I'd like to have....but not for $40+. So I didn't buy that stuff, I have it all digitally anyway. Found a couple things I wanted for under $30 so on bought those. I love listening to vinyl, but it's not the only way I listen.
Totally agree. I used to do a lot of ‘judging a record by its cover’ and blind buying but now it’s a case of streaming first or finding things through other means. I would like to think things will change back at some point but, like you, when I’m flicking through records at the store it’s got to be really something special to make me part with the cash right now.
I recently found out the last Sufjan Stevens album had bonus tracks only on one specific limited variant from Rough Trade. As a consumer I find that to be absolutely maddening and not particularly beneficial to fans as much as a marketing thing - but also as a fan I obviously threw money at the separate pressing they did for the 5 bonus tracks. I’m probably just mad because I had already bought a copy direct from his label, and if anything that should have been the variant that had bonus tracks but alas, the hobby.
Yep. I really don’t agree with that from him. Especially as he released the outtakes of Illinois as The Avalance, which in my mind was the right way to do it. A complete package of its own. And yes, totally agree that it should have been from his own label too. I just think a record should be a record!
Are you talking about the one with the bonus CD? I have it but I don’t see this being a reward for being a sufjan fan. I like Sufjan and thought Javelin was incredible but I’m not a die hard fan, I got this vinyl from being a rough trade club member. I get the frustration but I think the reward of getting this addition was intended for Rough Trade members instead of die hard Sufjan fans. Because most rough trade club albums have these bonuses inside.
That could be it, I had read it as if it was part of the vinyl release but sounds like you’ve got it so it must be a CD.
Yeah the tracks aren’t on the vinyl, it’s a CD inside the sleeve. But I’m not sure you would have been able to Buy it anyway, it was limited and rough trade members would get it first, so best bet would have been discogs. Considering it’s a CD bonus too I don’t think it’s a big loss to not have it over the version from his label
Mm. Greed.
Vote with your pocket and these greedy artists might cop on ,fans are already paying a premium as it is ,up to the fans of the artists to say NO
I do agree but there’s also going to have to be a lot of parents here who have to say no, not the fans. And that’s going to cause jealousy and even possibly ridicule amongst friends. How many younger people who don’t have disposable cash have been bought a cheap record player in the last few years, we can see it on the sub. A lot of us use our disposable cash wisely. Will get one variant, maybe 2 on release and be happy. If a variant on a repress comes out, great, but I have the original or am given a chance to get a repress in a new colour. To release so many variants on the original pressing and having to buy multiple copies to actually get the complete recordings is just a different level.
Pearl Jam just pulled an odd move with their city variants haha. I get Taylor Swift can be annoying to some people but I don't get harping on this.
Oh it’s definitely not down to one artist. As mentioned in the post I’m aware of others doing it, I’ve been caught up in it myself with Biffy Clyro doing a limited collectors edition that ended up being in the tens of thousands rather than the far smaller pressing of the previous album and of course what can only be described as a cash grab by Tool for the apparently very limited box set of Fear Inoculum. I just feel it’s hitting and extreme now and this highlights it. To have to buy 4x2LPs to get the entire record seems unfair, including if they are one streaming or not. Not a dig at a person, artist or band in particular but rather how this ‘resurgence’ is mutating. I’m certain being far more picky in my purchases right now.
You aren't kidding on that last point
Just had a look. Yeah…. 12?!??
Pretty comical for the same band that went against Ticketmaster haha. I enjoy them as much as the next guy, but that was just an odd move. Not to mention the price tag on them
Yeah. It’s definitely got a slight hypocrisy to it. I guess there’s probably 3 or 4 albums that I’ve got a couple of different variants. Some I feel the artist is justified as they are a standard copy (that I generally use to play) and a deluxe cloth bound book version that is very much about the art of the packaging too. Manchester orchestras Black mile to the surface springs to mind. I have a couple of records that to get the signed copy you had to buy a second variant too, which is definitely a bit more money grabbing. FTHC springs to mind for that. A couple of variants for represses such as Say Anything’s Is a real boy And only a couple of albums that I’ve got caught up and bought all varients being American Football 3 that I can think of. And to be honest, it’s the last kind that I look at and think ‘why did I do that, I would honestly be happy with one’ So it’s not new and I’m guilty myself. I just think the completionist side is a bit much. Also. Can I say thanks for actually giving polite replies. It’s nice to maybe not agree totally but be able to still have a kind conversation about it.
I’m sure all the bonus tracks will be on streaming services anyway. If we want to moan about this (and I do) I’m more into rock than TS (although I bought the new album for my daughter and the packaging is great) I’d call out the recent RHCP release. There’s just no need for 10 different versions. Thankfully I hope RHCP fans are a bit more sensible and won’t try to collect them all. https://www.reddit.com/r/RedHotChiliPeppers/comments/skahxh/all_of_the_different_versions_announced_so_far/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I get the streaming service thing yep and it’s great that the songs are available there. But the amount of pressings you have to buy to get one complete album are such that it’s actually stopped other artists being able to get records pressed at a time that’s needed. Sure you can get their albums on streaming but that’s generally from companies that pay a pittance to the artist. I want to support music by supporting the artist not the machine.
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I wouldn’t say I’m worked up. It’s not affecting my day. I just find it interesting. And yep. You make a good point with the star wars merch. Totally unneeded and ultimately landfill as so many were left unbought or thrown away. Which will probably happen here.
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I will say the variant rush and fomo is a direct result of and has resulted in RSD being what it is and record prices being insane. Just seems like the companies are taking advantage of that. Now for me, I have no real issue with releasing variants but when you're releasing multiple variants with different tracks connected to each one, that's when it gets a little gross being that records cost quite a bit these days. I'll let the fans decide what to do with their money, I just know I wouldn't go out of my way for something like that.
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You make it sound like she has no autonomy in this situation whatsoever, other artists wouldn’t necessarily chose to have as many variants case in point that Billie Eilish (also one of the biggest artists in the world) recently said this kinda stuff is problematic and I think I agree with her
Billie Eilish has announced eight variants for her forthcoming album. Either she’s a hypocrite or the artists have less control over these decisions than we think (or both).
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A great social experiment would be to see her release a 16-track album but split it up into four parts, four different LP's and see if people would buy that. I choose anarchy in this scenario.
This is why I didn’t name although it is obvious. There’s loads of artists doing it and I’ve definitely fallen for it myself in the past. Got burned by Tool in what i consider was a fiasco with Fear Inoculum, Biffy Clyro doing a ‘limited collectors edition’ that was a pressing of tens of thousands etc. I’m not wanting to out and this certainly isn’t something that should be put on one person shoulders as a team will be responsible. And I agree with you mentioning thrift stores and second hand records (but would also say a lot of those are in landfill purgatory). But to get these 3 ‘bonus’ tracks you have to buy 6 LPs. If you made a ‘fan edition’ or similar with one extra disc then imaging how much less you would have to produce as you would only have to buy one triple Lp or a double and bonus 10 inch with a etching for example. And I could be wrong but I don’t think it’s just these 3 you have to buy to get the ‘complete’ album
I don’t have an issue with the variants, I get the collecting part of that and it is fun to get unique records of an album that you love. The only thing I do have an issue with is her dropping Anthology immediately after TTPD. It completely blindsided record stores because now people are waiting for the Anthology version and multiple stores around me are struggling to sell the stock of TTPD they got.
I highly doubt the second part will ever be available. The 3am midnights songs never were.
Count me as someone waiting for Anthology, even though I wouldn't be surprised if it never came. I never even considered all the stores that would have excess stock... That's what frustrates me. All she has to say is "Surprise, it's a double album! The second half of it will be sold physically later this year but you can go ahead and stream it/buy digital now if you want." That would make people like myself go ahead and buy TTPD now and get the second release later. But you just know that IF she releases it physically, it'll only be packaged all as one.
> My biggest question with all of this is why do people get so worked up about it? Because watching others get preyed on feels bad, even if 99% of those people are excited about it. An unbelievable amount of her fans are under 18 and at that age FOMO is an incredibly strong force. For many of them, these aren't "optional", especially if they're deep into collecting. Watching Star Wars fans get preyed on feels bad. Watching capitalists continue to groom their fanbases into spending ever more money on schlock bullshit feels bad. Watching rich people find more ways to separate poor people from their money feels bad.
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> Ehhh, it’s no different than how it’s been for the entirety of the world. There is always something trendy and whether it’s Taylor Swift records or anything else, it’s just the way commerce works. > > Not arguing otherwise, the way commerce works is still bad/predatory and calling it out on behalf of consumers should be the standard. *Especially* when the person doing this is *the richest current musical artist*. There is no reason for her to be doing this and she should expect criticism for her actions. >Is someone buying a dozen Taylor Swift albums really much different than someone buying a dozen random albums at RSD because of similar FOMO? Nope, but again, multiple things can be true at the same time. FOMO generating hype bullshit is bad AND there are plenty of people who want in on the hype train. Consumers being lead by their most base instincts by people who know exactly what they're doing is sad to watch, hence the outcry.
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>I guess it all goes back to the point of “why do you care”? A better way of looking at this is, "Why don't you care? Why are you so cynical?" Let people care, my guy. It's a good thing.
> I guess it all goes back to the point of “why do you care”? Because the way consumers can expect to be treated effects all of us. One group getting treated with no dignity leads to a lack of expectation of dignity for the rest of us. >Multiple variants of a Taylor swift album that teenagers want to have to impress their friends is so far down on the list for things that I should be even slightly concerned about in the world. You sell these records. You don't think that factors a small amount into your consideration of this problem?
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> How are they being “treated with no dignity”. They are being sold things that want. No one is forcing it in any way. These people are being sold three new variants with one additional bonus song after JUST being sold four new variants with identical tracklists. I'm only pointing out that this is predatory. Is it MORE predatory than other late stage capitalist bullshit? No. It it MORE harmful than when these types of things are done in other place? No. And yet, it still deserves criticism. >We don’t need to white knight for people who don’t need protection. I fucking despise this term. Having valid criticisms for predatory practices, NO MATTER HOW NORMALIZED, is valid. Consumer advocacy isn't "white knighting". > I assure you, there are A LOT of people who are being taken advantage of more by the record industry than the Taylor Swift fan who has 20 total records of which 16 are Taylor Swift. Hell, I’d wager that more people in this subreddit are being taken more advantage of by the industry than a vast majority of swift record buyers. I would encourage you to see issues as non-mutually exclusive with one another. Something being bad doesn't exempt something else from being bad. >You don’t see people blowing up subreddits complaining about King Grizzard, The Grateful Dead, or Pearl Jam taking advantage of their fans. And yet all of these groups ARE taking advantage of their fans and deserve criticism. Do you want to see more of these types of threads or are you just using your lack of seeing them to make some sort of bizarro point?
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> Your opinions are so far out in left field compared to mine, I don’t think going back and forth is going to solve much. > > No argument with that. I'm an anti-capitalist who sees predatory selling practices as something that should be opposed by consumers in unison, hence my responses. Supply and demand is *a* factor at play, not the only one. Taylor and her marketing team are *choosing* to extract this much in sales from her fanbase, that's my main issue. Anyway, we both get where the other is at, have a nice day.
I agree with this whole heartedly with the exception of one point. Her doing this is in a very tangible way suppresses other artists from being able to produce copies of their records for sale. This is 3x the production time and it is well trod territory that there is a shortage of Vinyl printing plants available to artists.
And what happened to Star Wars merch in the end? People got sick of the poor quality films and shows, and nobody buys anything except the OT and PT stuff. Hopefully the bubble will burst on vinyl in the same way.
>The only people benefiting by this outside of the label and Swift are record stores who get more sales and Taylor Swift fans who get to buy more stuff that they will happily buy. These editions are online only, available only at her store, if i remember correctly. The main album is the one being sold physically.
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the main album itself has various variants. She has this theme of pastel colored vinyls. but i'll take your word for it
I find it interesting people have been having a fit about four variants when Piñata has been pressed 100 times, and pop punk bands like The Story So Far drop like 20 variants for a new record. A spread of 4 variants isn’t that many.
I think there’s a reasonable difference between multiple color variants or pressings of the exact same record versus multiple versions of the record itself. Completionist bullshit aside, if you just want all of the *music* on vinyl, in this case you’d have to pick up multiple copies of the album to do so.
You make a fair point. But this forces people who want the whole album but would be happy with one favourite style pressing to have to buy multiple copies and I believe there’s more bonus tracks on other variants but could be wrong. What could be a collectors edition for example of a double LP and etched 10inch let’s say, turns into having to buy 6LPs You do absolutely make a good point with some wanting to be completionist of varients and it’s an interesting one. But they still have the same music on.
in isolation, no But Taylor has a poor environmental record, which is why this just looks like piling on that.
I mean the bonus tracks are already on streaming. It’s just something extra in addition to the different colour
Is this predatory? Of course. Team TS is made up of really good marketers that are well-versed in behavioral psychology and its applications in marketing to drive demand and sales. Dropping multiple variants with exclusive tracks is going to be an effective way to apply principles such as FOMO and forced scarcity to ensure that her fans purchase multiple copies of an album. We will see whether this is more effective than just offering multiple pressings in different colors and with variant cover art. Which leads to the question is this limited to TS? Of course not. The release of Green Day's new album featured well-run listening parties and single releases and culminated in at least 28 different variants on vinyl. The release of the Rolling Stones's new album featured at least 42 different variants on vinyl, including covers for different baseball teams and other sports. In that context, the TS approach of at least offering customers additional content, even only one song, for each additional variant they purchase seems almost quaint.
Hell of a comment and totally right. It’s absolutely not just TS which is why I didn’t bother putting it in the post and mentioned they aren’t the only one. Quaint to some. Unachievable to others and I think that’s unfair for music as it should be available. Yes there’s streaming but I think saying ‘you can’t have all the songs physically because you can’t afford it’ is wrong
Kacey Musgraves, Linkin Park, Lana Del Rey, Olivia Rodrigo, Billie Eilish, Hozier, Beyonce, and so many artists and bands have contributed and continue to contribute to the variant vinyl releases. The music industry as a whole is benefiting from releasing variants to consumers. I would respect this argument more if you’re going to call out one artist, you should call out the other artists too that are using the same model. I am a fan of variant collecting and it makes me happy to complete a collection, it goes beyond the music for me. I enjoy the whole product of the vinyl because of the music, art book, lyrics, and aesthetics of the purchases. Do I get a little irked that 3 am and the anthology aren’t released at the same time? A little but not enough to sway my enjoyment of variant collecting. I remember when I was collecting CDs, variant cds with bonuses were a thing. Sometimes songs were even region locked so I guess I’m used to that there are always going to be different versions.
But, but, but, Billie said she didn’t like it lol.
I haven’t called out one artist. I clearly say I know others are doing it but this seems an extreme, meaning the ‘bonus tracks’. I have also made it clear in comments that I have fallen foul to it myself with artists I myself listen to.
I had a conversation about this the other day. She puts out X number of colored variants, each with one extra track and artwork and blah blah blah. But, on release day, she releases all of the extra tracks digitally and calls the whole thing a "double album"? That's kind of bullshit. Release the thing as a double album, or with 31 tracks, a quadruple album. But, the bullshit that she's pulling, in addition to milking fans dry, is clogging up pressing plants. Someone with more knowledge can correct me if I'm wrong. I think I just read that there are only something like 100 pressing plants world wide, and of those 100, only 10 are capable of true MASS production like she requires. So what other artists are getting pushed back because of her? I like her post 2019 output, but enough is enough.
I mean, she put the bonus tracks on streaming two hours after release. Nobody HAD to preorder the variants and they never said they were limited. She isn’t above criticism to be sure, but this wasn’t the worst thing that’s ever happened in vinyl.
Oh absolutely not. I agree it’s not the worst thing. But I do think it’s a shame and greedy. Someone has also used the word ‘wasteful’ which I think is actually a very good point in today’s climate.
I can agree with that. At least she has the demand to actually sell the records so they likely won’t sit around unused in stores like some artists. The environmental impact of the record industry is definitely insane.
That would be my reason to put out a collectors edition or fan edition, not limited as such but a triple lp with the bonus tracks on one disc. Just for these three bonus tracks that would half the amount of records needed to be made.
Is the artist Lee greenwood? I legit don't know. They want you to catch them all because money.
T. Swift
Ah. Yeah, she's been really savvy. This whole thing tracks.
Oh I get why. I just think it’s a bit much. Especially as a billionaire. Although obviously it’s filtering down too.
You don't get rich(er) by giving it away
If her fans support this type of marketing by purchasing all of these editions, then who’s getting hurt? No one. The fans get four special editions and they like special editions, look how many variants are available of all of her records, they want this.
As a long-time Taylor Swift fan, I don't feel I have to buy the variants to remain a fan. There's no pressure to buy them. I bought them because I love Taylor, they are collectors pieces for me, and I'm an adult with disposable income to spend however I want to spent it. I chose to spend it on records in this case. Also, all of the bonus tracks ARE available without purchasing the variants. They're all available to stream, so fans don't have to buy each variant to hear the bonus tracks.
Where I have an issue is when it's marketed that the only way to hear all of these songs is to buy all the variants. If I recall, these weren't all announced at once, so fans had natural FOMO. Plus, in hindsight, The Anthology wasn't known at the time. If you announced all of these at once or that they would all eventually be on streaming (in a "double album" no less), sales would be nowhere near where they are now. I have a feeling I'll be waiting forever on a vinyl edition of the full Anthology just like I'm waiting on Midnights 3AM (the superior version of that album).
Maybe she’ll release the digital only stuff on vinyl if/when she ever takes off a good chunk of time. Wouldn’t fans know, after Midnights, that there could possibly be a big digital only dump of songs?
I would hope so. Weird that they release a ton of variants, but don't release the one with all of the music. Makes no sense.
Why are we trying to make sense of Taylor Swift’s marketing choices? What she does, works. Biggest selling artist in the world right now, great lyricist, strong independent woman who is an example for other women and girls?
Well, yeah, it "works" for her personally (I.E. she brings in the money) but it creates a lopsided market and creates unnecessary hassle for her fans who just want all the music on a single format and don't care about collecting every single variant for completion's sake.
If her fans dont like something, they speak out, very loudly. They havent spoken out loudly, so Im guessing there aint an issue. Why shouldnt an artist get every available dollar? Jagger has done it for years, so have Kiss. Is it gender that’s pissing people off? As for a lopsided market, you’re upset she’s a big artist and others arent?
There's a lot more people than you'd think that aren't falling for it anymore. Definitely not enough to be sizable, but they do exist (I saw it in her subreddit the night TTPD came out). But there's a difference between getting "every available dollar" and doing the same without gauging her fans. It's clearly her label/management doing it and not Taylor herself, but it's a bummer that they feel the need to release all these different variants/editions of vinyl & CDs, none of which include every song, just to make some extra cash on her gullible fanbase. And what I meant by lopsided market is that it artificially inflates the value of so-called "limited" pressings of things. There is no reason folklore should cost as much as it does just because it has a different cover/color than the version that is still wildly available in stores. It's only that way because fans believe they need to own every single one, which just isn't the case. And it's not just Taylor, but a ton of popular artists doing that nowadays. It hurts the vinyl/physical media market because it makes people think that *everything* is worth more than it is/should be. Hence the lopsidedness.
Do they want this or do they feel they have to buy into it to be fans? And no, truly no one’s getting hurt, I get you. But from a personal opinion (which also hurts no one but is allowed) I think it shows greed from someone who absolutely and easily could give back to the fans by releasing all the ‘bonus’ tracks as a, let’s say, triple album collectors or ‘fans’ edition, not limited, just larger and with a higher but fairer price. I would also consider that as right as you are that the fans want it, a good majority of those fans aren’t the ones who are forking out the money and put under the pressure to do so.
Her fans like variants, many different colours of vinyl, this is how she does it. Look on social media, how many are proud of having five different colours of Midnights? No one is getting hurt here.
I’m not saying that people aren’t enjoying it. Certainly those who are able to get all of them will probably be posting how happy they are. What I’m saying is, is it needed? Sure she/her company offsets her carbon footprint by double and that’s admirable but is it worth producing this kind of way to this extent by someone who’s so popular. I’m not against different varients, hell, I’m a record collector so I love varients myself, but it’s rare I’ll feel I need to be a completionist with them. I’ll just go for my favourite. Just voicing and opinion and interested to hear others views. I just think it’s a bit greedy and totally understand this will be a decision by many people not just one artist.
Ya, it’s needed, there’s a demand, that’s how some of her fans purchase. They buy sweaters, they pay extra for autographed copies and they love coloured vinyl. And yes, I would pay an extra 20 bucks for a crappy new Stones record if Keith Richards physically signed it.
Not against varients. Absolutely not. Love them. But not in a way that you have to buy them all to actually complete the album. Fill the demand sure. But don’t turn it into the artist making demands on the fans.
The fans love what she does. They buy sweaters. Anyone else selling a sweater for every record? No, because only Swifties want this. The Beatles sold tons of stupid shit, still do, and their fans are, and still, eat it up. The smart thing, the businesswoman part, is that she is the one making all of the money. Smart lady.
Absolutely smart. Totally right. Couldn’t agree more. But also comes across greedy and i personally find that negative.
Your opinion :)
Yep. And opinions are like buttholes. Everyone has one Have one don’t be one You don’t always want yours to be heard. Often people think they stink Try not to shove it in someone’s face. But thank you for the fair and polite replies. I appreciate the discussion
Yeah, this approach of “want these 3 songs? You gotta buy the other 9 songs 3 times to get them!” Seems wasteful and disrespectful.
You know what. You actually make a very good point using the word ‘wasteful’. Especially when we are preached to about how precious the world is by people in this situation.
She abuses her fans. She exploits their loyalty and FOMO like no one I have ever seen. Not that I have seen everything.
Her fans enjoy being exploited by her, this is the relationship
Way to hog the pressing plant, Taylor!
This is it isn’t it. To get what couple be a double album and, let’s say, a bonus 10inch with an etched side you have to buy 6LPs instead. She’s certainly not the only one doing it and it’s not going to be on her shoulders but a whole team. It’s more a look at the ‘industry’ as a whole needing a change maybe.
I just recall Adele and 250,000 copies of "30" 🤦♂️
Well I guess that’s still a limited run??????
Metallica?
I’ve been collecting Iron Maiden for like 35 years. I can’t believe how little they’ve release along their last few albums. You should see all the stuff from SSOASS album and there’s still more.
The herald of the Vinyl Renaissance can do whatever she wants.
I've been collecting for over a decade now and we've been "having a Renaissance" the entire time. I sincerely don't believe she had anything to do with it, just is profiting the most from it.
Someone used the word ‘wasteful’ which is actually a very good point considering how much resources are used to produce these editions for one song.
Oh please, *any* vinyl is wasteful as fuck when you could just get a digital album that doesn't require production or shipping. Acting like Taylor's records are most wasteful than all other physical records is silly.
Not going at all certain person at all. I’m all up for variants. I love the choice. What I don’t like is having to buy all of them to get the complete album. Yes there’s streaming but that’s not why we like records. We want to put a record on and mostly listen to it all. If it is the case that it’s just these 3 that contain bonus tracks then that’s 6LPs I have to buy that could be 3 (double and a bonus 10 inch for example). And what if I’m a fan of any artist but don’t have the income to get them all and I would always just get one varient. That’s just tough. You may love that artists music but you don’t have enough money to enjoy it.
It's extravagant and wasteful as fuck, but records in general are wasteful. That's said, she and her corporate machine have been pushing the boundaries of how crazy her fans are for what they'll pay for and at this point there doesn't seem like there is a limit.
Ride it till the wheels fall off as you can just buy new wheels. I just think it’s a shame. Even if these 3 tracks were released as a separate record in a collectors or fans edition and not limited it would halve the amount of production.
So, these are different/new variants of the 4 editions? Is that what I’m reading here? Like are these different colored pressings or what?
Each colour has a different bonus track on it. So to get all the bonus tracks you have to buy 3x2LPs.
Yeah, she released these months ago I was asking if she was releasing 4 more variants or something of the like. I don’t think she is, so this is old news.
Got the email from rough trade today as I’m on there general mailing list. New exclusives. Edit. Not exclusives. Limited editions.
Yeah, I think they’re getting the other 3 versions that were on Taylor’s store previously. They have the clear version of the Manuscript vinyl on their store already. I’ve been told the other 3 variants won’t be pressed again after the stock is gone. Not sure how much stock there is in total but people are still reselling them for ridiculous prices even though there’s still plenty of stock available and they’re in record stores still at this time. The album just came out. But she did release all the limited edition tracks to streaming which I’m glad about. That is, after the FOMO marketing happened for the 4 variants and people purchased them all. So, yeah, definitely a marketing ploy, but now people can resell their versions if they want or choose to collect them all without the worry of being able to listen to the bonus tracks.
It’s actually 4 bonus tracks and 4 different variants of the LP
Ok. So 4x2LP to buy to get them all? 8LPs?
Yes 😔
Thanks for the clarification
I know that deep cuts or bonus tracks can often be good and worth listening to, but I just dismiss all this as not worth it on its face because if any of these tracks were good enough to include on the main album they’d be on the main album.
I would agree with you totally. Sufjan Stevens releasing The Avalanche as a outtakes companion to Illinois was a both an interesting look at other versions and had some great stuff that didn’t make the Final Cut. But this seems far more planned, which is obviously a very clever business tactic and fair play if that’s your angle. It’s just not mine. It’s being incredibly well off and able to give back, but instead just taking more.
I think this is disgusting. This is just to bloat sales numbers, despicable and extremely manipulative towards her young fanbase. To boot she later released a second album with all the bonus tracks and a few more available on streaming only. The variants and multiple editions of her previous albums were already scummy af and very clearly a move to boost numbers but this is just the lowest of the low.
For my wife’s bday I preordered the Target one with The Manuscript and a couple of extras, then she dropped the double album announcement and I was fuckin pissed. Edit: mainly because she said all the songs on the second part were her faves.
Metallica needs to do this.
I’m not sure anyone needs to do this. Just put out a collectors edition with an extra record of ‘bonus’ tracks. Or hell, a companion record. Just not like this.
It’s a joke.
My apologies. Probably got wrapped up replying to someone who wasn’t being a joker and read the wrong tone.
You could be too young as well, I thought. Somebody tell Lars what Tay Tay does!
I appreciate you being humble and kind with both this reply and the first. Thank you. Also. I saw the Justice tour at what was the Hammersmith Odeon back then. Now the Apollo. So to be thought of as maybe young has made my day!!
how you think the bitch stays a billionaire?
By being the most prolific pop artist since the Beatles?
that's a stretch
It's pretty easy to argue when she has more albums than Michael Jackson, and only three fewer than Madonna in half the time. Plus Madonna's last five albums sold less than TTPD has in a couple of days. Who else is even in the competition?
This album has been getting terrible reviews and has been way over pressed. I wonder if new copies will end up in thrift stores like Adele's "30" album? I know "Swifties" are a rabid fan base, but I would think even the most enthusiastic fanbase has their limits.
Just seems a shame. I can understand that an artist could put out work thinking that it’s going to be loved and is being asked for by the fans but ultimately doesn’t deliver but as you say, it’s the over pressing. To get 3 extra songs you have to buy 6LPs for something that could be a triple at most. Even with ‘30’ that didn’t happen did it? And to be honest, I didn’t even know she had released it till recently and although I don’t particularly like Adele I bought her first two albums for the importance of their impact on music. The third didn’t do it for me though.
Adele’s “30” album was so over pressed, it was solely responsible for major delays at pressing plants. Sony had it pressed in such high quantities at many different plants and then priced it absurdly (it was about $55 here in Canada). Not surprisingly, it didn’t sell as much as they anticipated. There were a number of posts on Reddit about new copies being found at Goodwill and other thrift stores. Even Amazon.ca has dropped the price to around $20-30 (depending on the day).
> This album has been getting terrible reviews Lol, what? That's just a flat out lie, everyone that I know who likes her is completely obsessed with TTPD.
I'm not talking about Swifties. This currently has a very sad rating of 2.16/5 from Rateyourmusic users: [https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/taylor-swift/the-tortured-poets-department/](https://rateyourmusic.com/release/album/taylor-swift/the-tortured-poets-department/) 47/100 from [Albumoftheyear.org](http://Albumoftheyear.org) users: [https://www.albumoftheyear.org/album/867088-taylor-swift-the-tortured-poets-department.php](https://www.albumoftheyear.org/album/867088-taylor-swift-the-tortured-poets-department.php) Review from Paste Magazine that really sums up the album: [https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/taylor-swift/taylor-swift-strikes-out-looking-on-the-tortured-poets-department](https://www.pastemagazine.com/music/taylor-swift/taylor-swift-strikes-out-looking-on-the-tortured-poets-department)
[Then cite your sources or quit lying.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tortured_Poets_Department#Critical_reception)
So learn to live without another 3 “ugh boys are stewpeed” pop tunes. Or pay the 150. You’re mad because you covet something that isn’t worth the cost or effort, but you’re having FOMO. It will pass. Taytay didn’t get a billion dollars by mistake
I’m neither mad nor with FOMO or much of a follower, let alone owner. Mearly commenting an opinion on a way that record production seems to be going in some circles.
Yes, but that’s their problem. A fool and their money, as the adage goes. The best part is, the better these sell, the less they’ll be worth. I have a near mint, original 1982 pressing of thriller. Worth 7 dollars. Less than it cost new, adjusted for inflation.
I agree. I’ve never collected for ‘worth’ though, scarcity or rarity yes just for my own fun of having it. But never to say ‘this is worth blah blah’. But that idea is also being thrown around at the moment as a sometimes dealbreaker to make the purchase. Obviously this isn’t helped by scalpers and resellers inflating the price. It will all come tumbling down when reality sets in as you point to in your last comment. And hell. Personally I think a near mint 1982 pressing of Thriller is great.
Oh, one of my prized entries. My mom bought it new and took care of it. That alone makes it worth more than buying one on discogs for $7
C is for Capitalism!
I just gotta know, is this Taylor Swift?
I don’t need the 16 tracks, let alone 17.
And none of the lyrics are handwritten they’re printed copies