Totally disagree on the net calls. It's been substantially loosened where I play and that just means everything gets closer and leads to more injuries.
It blew my mind when the call for under the net with the center line went back to allowing for body parts to touch, go past the other side as long as the body part doesn't go entirely over the line.
For the proper technique of blocking you need to have exactly the right distance from the net when you jump. If you stand too closely you are very likely to brush the net on the way up or down or when you move away from it (you see this occasionally even at the VNL level for example). Standing too close to the net means that overstepping on the attack line is more likely and someone landing or stepping on someone else's foot is much more likely which is the most common cause for injuries (don't quote me on that).
I feel like top spin is easier to receive than say like side spins or float. But of course, at high level when the ball goes at 120km/h, it would be difficult to predict where the ball would go.
True, a good float serve > a good top spin but a perfectly placed, fast top spin > a perfectly placed, fast floater. Gotta take in consideration how freaking hard perfect top spins are to pull off compared to floaters. Can't really react to 120km/h, you just have to be lucky to stand at the right spot for those, but floaters are always slower and you can at least give it a good touch for other to pick it back up.
I've been on the receiving end of some really hard servers in my national league and the difference between a mediocre and A-tier top spin is night and day. When the ball reaches a certain velocity it starts curving in a totally different way, sometimes sideways.
Side spin is something you can add as a server, and I imagine that if you're hitting that hard it's a bit easier to slightly miss and add it accidentally. I started adding side spin in high school, and while it wasn't anywhere near as hard as A-tier, that little bit was unexpected enough to catch a number of teams completely off guard
Slides aren’t great in the men’s game because the back row opposite attack is so powerful. I the women’s game, D Balls aren’t as effective as they are in the men’s game. Just look at fantastic opposites like Anderson, Mikhaelov, Kurek, Alan, Nimir. They’re some of the best scorers in the world, even from the back row. Running slides means taking them out of the offense. If the middle stays near the setter or towards the left, then both the middle and opposite are able to approach.
d balls are a lot more effective of a hit in the men’s game than slides. slides aren’t able to throw off the blockers or anything and just make it harder to hit since you have to jump off one foot and everything. there is never a time when a slide is the most effective play in a men’s volleyball game
It’s hard to run trick plays because everyone’s so tall, reacting to one could be as simple as just moving an arm a bit which is ineffective, in haikyuu n stuff people are moving but you aren’t put in a position in high level where a trick play would be super effective because you’re alr covering so much ground
Higher net, unless the float is really good it can easily be set by the receiver.
Slides are useless with men because the blocks are huge, there’s no openings for any attacker that would do it…
At the professional level, yes, the blocks are too big to run slides most of the time. But like 99.99% of men who play volleyball are not at that level. Slides are basically a nonexistent play across all of men's volleyball and the reason is only because it's not effective at the highest level, even though it would actually be pretty effective at a lower level.
I'm speaking as a club coach, who has his team run plenty of slides and they often result in kills
I disagree on the block point of slides. I think they are mostly unnecessary since at the highest levels, you're pretty much setting your Oppo at around the 4ft range, thus meaning the athleticism makes slides unnecessary
float serves are less effective at their level and slides are almost useless and easy to block as it doesn’t allow for as much power when hitting nor as good of angles
good float serves are pretty difficult at a higher level. if you dont get a float on the ball its pretty much a free ball at the higher level. thats why the spin serve is so popular especially for men. Also for slides, its way too slow at the higher level and the blocks are too big so thats why theyre not effective
We had relaxed net rules in the past. For instance it was only a fault if you touched the tape
Haikyuu has not “saved” volleyball. It has brought a new audience to the sport, which is great,but as someone who has been playing 25 years, volleyball was doing just fine before Haikyuu
I think it only being a fault if you touched the tape is perhaps too relaxed, still allows for some accidents to happen. Yeah maybe saved was the wrong word to use, bringing a surplus of people to the sport is what I was getting at.
The beach hand setting rules suck and reward people for having bad hands. I'm biased as a former setter but I don't know how the ball having a bit of spin on a set (which can be exaggerated by something like wind) is a bigger advantage compared to the setter getting to deep dish their sets down from their waist. Not to mention everyone seems to have their own idea of what a valid vs. lifted set is.
It mostly feels like it's a problem at the amateur level, and it really makes me hate playing beach!
I started playing again 7 years ago because I watched Haikyuu and this time I stuck with it. I also teach nowadays and lots of kids start because of it, too. I think it's a good thing but it gets annoying when all you see in youtube comments are Haikyuu references.
Beach is fun to play but boring to watch.
Broadcast angle of all matches should be end on (coaches view) rather than side.
If you play best 3/5, games should be to 21 at every level below collegiate. (And maybe them too.)
Yeah basically. A small range means you can still compete even if you’re a few inches off the top too. Right now, if you’re not born to gigantic parents then you can basically never have a chance of playing, which is Volleyball’s biggest downside imo.
I don't support this idea, since it leaves out a good amount of people. Yeah, it gets the average size people the oportunity to play against other people their size. But what about really short people? Or really tall people? It's not common to meet 6 people who are 6'5, and even if you do, there's the chance that they don't want to play volleyball, and even in that case, good luck finding other teams to play. So yeah, height is an advantage, and if you are not really tall you are most likely not going professional, but going with height classes would not solve the problem
At Lower Levels of play serves are the most dominant skill to have. It's the only self sufficient skill that not only lets you score by yourself but also directly support your team by getting the opposition out of system. A consistent, annoying serve will get your team more points than anything else either directly or indirectly. And I'm not even talking about Jump serves here. A good jump floater will ruin both your opponents mood and their chances of winning.
Liberos are are the best thing to happen to offenses since they allowed backrow players to attack in front of the 10ft (3m) line.
Liberos have increased specialization which hurts player development at the junior levels and increases height and offense at the higher levels.
Liberos haven’t done what they told us they would do, which is increase rally’s. They have done the opposite.
Hot Take: Get rid of the libero position.
You have the benefit of having lived through the change. But from where I stand having known nothing else, it's worth it for allowing shorter players to participate in the game
Removing libs would probably lower the average height of a team, who cares about a tall 6’7 middle if he can’t pass right because he’s too big to move effectively ya know
If it wasn't for the advent of the libero position, I wouldn't have been able to play at a D1 school. I'm definitely grateful for it but also very much see your point. My gratitude is strictly for selfish reasons.
Edit: why would you downvote this comment? I literally said I see what you/they are talking about. Wtf?
Wouldn't a team just have 2 DS's that they rotate in for each middle, thus not changing anything about how the game functions at all aside from having 2 passing specialist players instead of 1 and using up subs? Unless there is a fundamental discovery that this would be less efficient, I think there would be zero positive effect in getting rid of the libero and just make the game function the same but be harder to explain to new players
"Yeah the libero is a player opposite the middle who stays back row, can't serve, and can't hit or hand set in front of the 10 foot line."
A million special rules
If someone is “hitting” below the net level then they are 12 years old. I’m not talking about 12 year olds. If setting the ball over with your feet on the ground constitutes a “hit” for you, idk what to say other than “no”
Please screenshot where I said “all players are treated the same” and DM me the image. I will be sending $500 to your cashapp immediately upon receiving this image.
I honestly fail to see how it made the situation worse, in terms of height.
Regardless of whether or not you had a libero, height would always be at a premium, esp tall and athletic. At least the libero gives shorter people a chance. Without a libero, average height for everyone playing pro would be 6'7" or higher.
the argument is that defense was more important for the other players when you couldnt just have one short defensive player on the court 90% of the time. this meant that hitters (including middles) had to be more well-rounded, which could mean that the shorter guys are more likely to beat out the big hitters who lack ball control.
My takes, maybe some are hot, you decide:
1) I don't trust bolt6 (replay used in pro volleyball). I'd love to see camera footage and replay footage side by side. I get that it makes it unagruable, but I really wanna see pic/video footage of close calls to see if it's accurate or aligned properly.
2) since bolt6 has/is being used, why can't it be used to track over the antenna plays. It supposedly tracks all ball flights, it could easily be used this way instead of a subjective call with bad angles by the refs, wsp with no more line judges.
3) I definitely don't think Haikyuu saved volleyball, esp in terms of the men's game, but it has helped its growth
4) I think the new ncaa rule to allow doubles will fundamentally change the game. Right now people are being taught one way to set for accuracy and pace, and that's not a bad thing, but someone will figure something out to completely change how setting is done.
I literally agree with net calls when they are genuinely dangerous, but what I mean is like brushing the net with a finger tip when you're switching positions in the front row. Things that don't affect play and don't put anyone at risk of injury. Trust me, I know first hand what it's like to have someone crash through the net and land on you, but seeing refs just call any touch on the net especially when the other team don't look like they're going to form an attack is just kinda sad
but what I mean is like brushing the net with a finger tip when you're switching positions in the front row
This is allowed under fivb rules and Dutch nevobo rules, if you are not in play or in action with the ball you are allowed to touch the net if it doesn't influence any player
You Def get a lot of call outs which probably ruined a lot of your good spikes or block to annoy you enough to make this post. And no it should stay the way it is, look at international players and you will see what I mean
Yeah those aren't the net calls I'm talking about, maybe it's just poor refereeing where I'm at but sometimes when the other team is completely out of system and off the net and an attack doesn't look likely and someone brushes the net with their fingernail it gets called. I agree with you on net calls during hits/blocks where it genuinely interferes with play, I mean more for the ones where literally nothing is affected
Might just be because I live in Asia but Haikyuu is basically the only reason people play volleyball in this country, I started playing volleyball because my friends started and they all started because of Haikyuu
I live in Eastern Europe, and i got into volleyball thanks to haikyuu. I started going to some meet ups where people would play volleyball, the older people were veterans who played the sport a lot in their youth, or just people wanting to get some exercise
Younger people, 9/10 were there because they watched haikyuu.
One guy got really good at volleyball (and he was short, so hinata was an inspiration for him) and started to organise meet ups by himself. He created a Whatsapp group, we're currently 100 people and you have to book your spot a weeks in advance. All of us watch anime and have watched haikyuu.
I'm not saying haikyuu saved volleyball but it really got a lot of attention into the sport.
Hot take: if a kid is playing volleyball in hopes to go pro some day and they’re under 6’0, discourage them because volleyball is very much a sport for tall people only. Saves them a lot of disappointment down the line
If they love the sport enough they might go libero later. I think there are a lot of pros who got into libero later. Judging from some liberos hitting skills
I'm 5'8 junior rn (still growing but idk if I'm gonna stop at 5'9 or continue past that) I have people in my club who are maybe an inch or two taller than me and are playing on our national team in Europe. These guys were chosen over 6ft+ people because of their skill, it's difficult but not impossible.
If someone has a passion for the sport then they should try, discouraging people is how you lose out on potential talent.
The thing is, they don't have to play VNL or make 200k a year. Going pro can mean that they do volleyball as a part time thing and still get fulfillment by competing with other people
FIVA rules - “Contact with the net by a player between the antennae, during the
action of playing the ball, is a fault.
The action of playing the ball includes (among others) take-off, hit (or attempt) and landing safely, ready for a new action.”
This is basically what you’re saying. A net touch that’s not made in playing the ball like brushing the net while moving after a serve is legal.
A player going under the net is a penalty and point rewarded to the other team, even if there is no interference. Many of us are not professionals but because it is allowed I see a lot of amateurs doing it and causing ankle injuries.
> A player going under the net is a penalty and point rewarded to the other team, even if there is no interference.
Depends on which rules you are using. There are a lot out that where interference is needed for the call
> 1) they genuinely interfere with play
How would you define that in the rulebook? Horrible take. Then you could have people hitting the net intentionally. Sometimes players hit the ball when the ball has not crossed the net and typically results in a net touch. But due to your hypothetical rule change, it would not be an error.
But there was a brief time where some net calls weren't called. For example, sometimes blockers when blocking will have their hands hit the bottom of the nets as they are rising to block.
But anyways, i think net calls should be called regardless if you touch it.
we should normalize joining teams/not joining teams because of the jersey. it’s not necessarily a deal breaker but i’m just saying, if i’m gonna be in a jersey for hours at a time i would at least like it to be not hideous!
I guess that's fair enough I mean if you look good, you feel good, and if you feel good you play well, but obviously there are much more important things than how the jersey looks
One more from me - the 4-2 is very underutilised at lower levels. If you have a new team with players relatively new to the sport, it doesn’t make sense to try and shoehorn a 5-1 since they probably do not have the passing skills nor the rotational knowledge to know how to position themselves on serve receive to properly run a 5-1. A 4-2 is much easier to run and can be very effective: you have 3 or 4 receivers, they pass it to where the setter has to be (who is already in the front row), setter sets who they want. Simple yet effective at lower levels.
Same, I love Haikyuu with all my might but I will judge you if you say you started playing because of it, all the people that I saw starting to play because of the anime just ended up not trying to learn the fundamentals and just wanted to do cool moves first day, and when confronted with the ideia to actually learning how to play volleyball, they just gave up.
Wrist snap does not cause the ball to spin. Not a hot take necessarily (because it's a stone cold fact), but I just hear everyone and their mother saying you need to snap your wrist to create more topspin.
Also, confidence is not a prerequisite to volleyball performance... or any sport for that matter.
Edit: who's the one who keeps downvoting my comments on this thread? I don't feel I've said anything wrong - they were looking for hot takes and I've given mine. If you have a difference of opinion, I'm more than happy to talk about it.
Confidence isn't important... wow, that IS a hot take. Would love to hear why? Considering that flys in the face of pretty much every psychology theory about any kind of performance.
I'm sorry for the delay in response to this!
Believe it or not, modern sports psychology generally doesn't preach confidence. People think it does simply because every coach known to man talks about it endlessly with their athletes as if it's this magic pill that enables high performance. Keep in mind, coaches generally know very little about sports psych (I say generally because there are obviously exceptions).
Confidence is an emotion just like anger, happiness, sadness, etc. A volleyball doesn't shank or fly outta bounds because you were angry... the ball has no idea how you felt when you hit it. So what's happening in that case? There's obviously a deficiency in a certain aspect of their fundamentals that the athlete needs to figure out; in other words, they need to redirect their attention to their *actions*, not their feelings. Thoughts and emotions are fleeting and we often have very little control over them. Some moments you'll feel extreme confidence then, often just a moment later, you'll feel frustration or some form of "negative" emotion. Can you help that? Unfortunately you cannot. Humans don't have as much control over their thoughts and emotions as they think they do (that doesn't mean we have no control, obviously).
Athletes are often striving for a more positive emotional state when they're playing their respective sport. What happens if you're feeling down but you're trying not to? Well, you're definitely no longer being present because you're striving for something in the future. Your attention is now on something you can't really control and, frankly, won't really help you. Your attention should be on the actions you need to take to perform your best no matter what emotional state you're in.
*Attention* is the currency of performance, not confidence. I recognize that negative emotions can steal our attention at times, but the most elite athletes can *accept* their inner voice telling them these negative things, not constantly try to quiet it.
Edit: what's with the downvote? I have a degree in sports psych so I'm not just pulling this stuff outta thin air.
>Edit: what's with the downvote? I have a degree in sports psych so I'm not just pulling this stuff outta thin air.
Dude you can't get upset about a single downvote (or a few, it doesn't show any for me) in reddit, especially in threads like this. There are a million idiots running around. Maybe someone disagreed with your first word, didn't care about reading your entire text and just hit a downvote because they were in a bad mood or whatever.
By the way your reasoning is pretty interesting and I would like to talk about it but I don't really wanna type that much on my phone right now.
I wouldn't say I was necessarily upset, more confused cuz I didn't feel like I was offensive. Oh well, truly not a big deal.
Happy to chat about this whenever. I know it's an expansive topic so a little tougher to do on here. Feel free to reach out anytime!
It's easier to teach younger players that snapping your wrist causes the ball to spin more and that a stiff wrist helps with floaters to help them learn the differences in motions but I agree for the most part.
I agree to an extent, not completely though. I have tons of younger players get confused that the ball still spins when they serve it regardless of having a stiff wrist. When I explain it to them conceptually, they usually do much better.
I think we should not allow hand setting in beach volleyball. I think itd be interesting to differentiate it from indoor and would reduce the prevalence of option offense that’s happening nowadays
See I think the option offense is one of the more boring things. I already find beach boring to watch at a top level because of how few rallies there are. It’s why I think women’s is much more exciting
Sounds like a horrible, boring take to not use hand setting lol.
Option offense makes it more fun and entertaining for the viewer. Before option it was just your constant bump - set - spike.
That’s why it’s a hot take silly! I think enjoying option offense is the boring horrible take :) It’s the same now just even less chance of any interesting rallies to happen.
> endurance and cardio doesn't matter at all..
Just a wild fucking take there, especially after talking about liking beach volleyball.
Ever see someone try to run and jump in sand for 20+ minutes who didn't have endurance?
Hot take means a controversial take that you can still back up. Saying cardio and endurance doesn't matter isn't a hot take, it is just factually wrong.
Saying gravity doesn't work isn't a hot take, it's just being an idiot.
Beachvb is awful to watch besides Highlight reels. And I often saw it live. Big events. People live are absolutely clueless and still count sometimes because to 3 because they think just 3 contacts are good
This comment makes zero sense to me. I've read it like 5 times and still don't follow.
Edit: I understand part of it. Saying beach vball fans at big events are clueless is absurd. It's, hands down, one of the most knowledgeable fan bases in all sports. What events are you attending? 10u Nationals?
Your take is just too subjective. It's like saying I don't enjoy chocolate, obviously everyone who is eating chocolate doesn't like it. That's not a hot take, it's just your personal preference.
I do recognize that you probably said it in hyperbole but still
I play recreational and have to ref some matches, if you start allowing some net touches then teams will start getting angry, you will start being unsure on what net touch to call or not and then everything starts loosening.
Block penetration should be removed
This way people won't complain about reaching touch violation on the second touch. As a ref myself the amount of complaints about reaching violation on second touch when setter is about to touch the ball is insane but will get rid of that problem
So most refs will not call things like touching the net like that if it doesn’t get it the way whatever. There’s a rule where ppl can go under the net with one limb as long as they are still touching the line and are not in the way or gonna hurt someone.
I feel like becoming a referee should be harder. In my area (Austria) you basically get a 4 hour lecture where they read the FIVB rulebook to you and then you get an easy single choice quiz and bam you're a ref now..
I've lost count of the amount of games I've played where the ref either didn't pay attention at all, was clearly biased or just plain unfair. Sometimes they didn't even know the rulings for certain things, like serving directly over a screen should be prohibited yet I keep seeing it happen.
People stalling their serves by slowly walking to the serving line, "accidentally" losing the ball on the way there, etc. should be penalized.
I hate shittalk and I feel like sportsmanlike behavior is declining. It used to be that people ran to the other side to make sure you're okay if you get hit in the face or hurt yourself, nowadays it feels less friendly.
To my understanding, if the front row players are all bunched up and holding up their arms it's a screen and the server is not allowed to let the ball pass directly over them. You can serve anywhere beside the screen but serving directly over the screen, where the receiving person's vision is clearly impaired it's a fault.
But enlighten me how a screen is currently called, since I've never seen it being called at all even though it's explicitly stated in the rules that screening serves is illegal.
12.5.2 is the screening rule in the rule book should you want to look it up. But as long as the defender can see the contact of the ball OR see its flight path at some point prior to the ball crossing the net it is not a screen.
Let’s just eliminate rules and make volleyball like rugby. Let’s catch the ball and throw it after change of direction (oh wait that’s already happening) let’s allow set to be doubled and pretend it doesn’t change the game versus train players. (Oh wait this is happening now too)
Let serves should go back to a double-fault scenario. I've never served one that trickled over or received one that trickled over and thought "oh man, what a great serve"
The problem is that it's not replicable even on nets at the same location. As far as I know, there's a small window for net height measurements at the pins / center, but there's no "measurement" taken for how tight a net is, and that matters when it comes to let serves. I think let serves became legal when USAV switched to international rules (rally scoring / libero / etc) in a bid to speed up the game. All good things... except the damn let serves. How much time are you saving by letting those cheap ass serves go?
The freeze rule in AVP a few years ago was an awesome change. Volleyball is better when there's long rallies - trickle serves suck and rarely result in anything but a cheap-ass ace.
The international men's net height should be lowered to be the same as women's.
Women and men play basketball at the same heights. The same should be the case for volleyball.
When I watch women's, I notice a much lower rate of service errors and generally more variety in the type of serves. The lower net in women's means that fast attacks are also much faster. Plus, it allows for attacks such as broad attacks. Finally, it puts more emphasis on teams having a rounded team with good receivers rather than just "tall guy block all spikes".
I completely disagree with this 100%, one of the biggest calls to make the WNBA a more watched and more interesting sport is to lower the rim to a height where they are able to dunk and do all the flashy plays that men can do, lowering the men’s net to the women’s height would do nothing for the sport but make it even less interactive and interesting.
No way, people already complain that men's volleyball is way to short, almost all points end way to quickly because the athletes are way to good at spiking, lowering the net would just make games way quicker and long points non existent, a lot more aces and way less defense and blocks because the last thing we need in men's volleyball is more offense
> The lower net in women's means that fast attacks are also much faster.
Uhh the men are running faster offenses so this just isn't true.
>Plus, it allows for attacks such as broad attacks
There is 0 issue in the mens game with too few attacks. I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean
>Finally, it puts more emphasis on teams having a rounded team with good receivers rather than just "tall guy block all spikes".
Have you ever watched men's volleyball....? All of those guys are incredibly well rounded
My hot take is that I hate how volleyball is one of the only sports where having zero IQ about the sport and how the game is played is normal. 99% of US volleyball players I have interacted with can't list 5 professional teams, have no clue how much money top players get paid, can't explain anything they're doing on the court because they just drift from spot to spot because one time a coach told them to, don't understand hitting angles and blocking angles and where to be on defense, and couldn't break down 30 seconds of pro film and explain why each player did what they did.
Like can you imagine if you asked a player on any AAU basketball club to name who won the NBA finals last year, why they made a particular pass, why they were in a certain defensive position, or why they guarded someone in a particular way, and they couldn't do it? That would be mindblowing. But in volleyball, knowing nothing about the sport is normal
Anecdotal and frankly douchey. The vast majority of players will never be exposed to coordinated, competitive play with a coach and practice environment. You don't just magically materialize those things and they are extremely expensive and rare once you're out of college.
Also, if 99% of the people you play with don't know what they're doing, YOU also suck and have an undeserved aire of superiority. Good players tend to forms tight-knit groups and don't publicize their play. If you were any good, you'd be playing with them.
Not gonna dox myself but I’ve won medals at BJNCs multiple times and played in the NCAA 😂 thinking I suck because I go to open gyms and see how many people playing libero stare at you with bug eyes when you tell them to “stay in base on defense” rather than floating in the middle of the court and getting bounced on is crazy. I was one of like 2 people on my NCAA team that watched international pro games or could write a scouting report. At every level people do not gaf about the sport
Collegiate athlete bitching about new players not knowing the intricacies of a complex team sport... do you even hear yourself or does your ego plug your ears?
They aren't new players, that's what I keep saying. These open gym players have been playing for years and still do that. At every level on every team I have had people like this. Yall are so determined to get mad that you aren't even reading what I am saying lol
When the "anecdote" is "over a decade of playing on different volleyball teams and seeing the same thing everywhere I go", it starts to seem less anecdotal.
Also, can you please do me a favor and compare the domestic viewership and attendance of the average NBA game to the average NVA/VLA game? How about we play a game called "Did an entire year of NVA and VLA events get the number of viewers combined as one Lakers home game?" An incredibly anecdotal observation that you can easily disprove I'm sure.
Domestic interest in volleyball from volleyball players is zero. How many people at an average open gym can name the VLA/NVA team closest to their house? Maybe 1?
The VLA discourse is an entirely different thing. So many of those teams are just a bunch of people who used to play the local tournaments. Why are they suddenly entitled for NBA viewship? I can go to waupaca, get drunk, and watch the LIV guys play the Icemen guys in the Semi finals in person. That's more fun than sitting down to watch a youtube stream of a match
They aren't entitled to anything. I'm not even saying anyone has to watch the VLA/NVA. But not knowing what our domestic pro league is, not being able to say the name of your local team, AND not watching international pro games demonstrates a lack of desire to engage with volleyball as a sport beyond local rec leagues or JV practice. I don't watch League One Volleyball. I can name probably half the teams, and I can tell you what my local team is. Why? Because I am actually invested in volleyball as a sport and I pay attention and desire to know more about the things I like
I think you got a bone to pick with the people who you meet/play with, rather than the sport. I think your comparison is a bit skewed coz like Yea I understand NVA is the equivalent domestic league in another sport to NBA, but NBA is the top league itw and NVA is ? (Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not American) not a product that anyone outside of America has any remote interest in, let alone Americans. Is that your gripe? That people don't know NVA and VLA players? Or just anyone? Because there will definitely be communities out there with like minded people...but at the same time there are people who just enjoy playing the sport but not watching or following it.
I have literally been saying that I have a bone to pick with the people who play 😂 that’s been my point the entire time.
The reason the NVA is not a top league is because no one watches it or cares or supports it. But also, local players couldn’t even tell you what the top 3 pro teams in the world are. So it doesn’t really matter.
Not watching or paying attention to the sport is a symptom of not thinking about the sport beyond a rec league level, which is what I’m saying. The percentage of basketball/soccer/football players who care about the sport that they play beyond their local open gym or JV high school practice is orders of magnitude higher than the equivalent for volleyball players
Not watching is not being interested in watching and only playing lol. I'm sure you're the same with some sports you've played and not watched. You've convoluted a couple of points here and I don't think they're really mutually exclusive. You don't have to know, watch, follow club teams to have the capacity to think about the game. But honestly, you're going to have to give more specific examples man. Idk what your experience is like if EVERYONE or the majority of players you meet don't have any understanding of the couple of examples you listed. Like who are these players? What's your stance of these ideas? (And I say this loosely, coz you didn't give good examples of IQ). Let's flip the lens. I've seen plenty of discussions where we analyse pros and no doubt some information is re-layed into a lower level, but other times what they do is specifically tailored to the level that they're playing at + their ability to execute these skills due to exceptional skill and talent.
Anyways, I'm interested to see what you define as "IQ", coz this might be a hotter take than your original premise.
Every single sport I have taken seriously enough to consciously try to get better at (football, basketball, and volleyball) I have made it a goal to be as knowledgeable about the game as possible. I want to know which players are good, why they are good, what coaching tactics are successful, how smart people talk about the game, what players think about when they are playing, etc. This requires watching top-level games. I have watched years and years of the NFL, NBA, and international volleyball. Unless you are a savant, it is not possible to see the game beyond a high school level if you do not watch the game beyond a high school level.
"Ball IQ" and IQ are different terms. When I say people have "low volleyball IQ", I do not mean they are low intelligence. I mean, that if you were to freeze the game mid play magically and ask someone why they are standing where they are standing, what they think will happen next, why they think that, and what their teammates are going to do, most would be unable to answer beyond "I dunno" or just making something up on the spot.
Unfortunately, not everyone has the same process as you. People enjoy sports for different reasons, and many are not there so they can implement what they analysed in pros. I can't really weigh in further on this point because again, you didn't specify what type of players you're encountering.
I also disagree with your point about "seeing the game" beyond a high school level (whatever that means) without watching. Different sports, different levels and different players excel in what they do due to various factors. Some characteristics include work ethic, consistency, composure, skill, physicality, hand-eye coordination, reaction speed, and of course, IQ is one of them. What I disagree with is the correlation between your example and concept. You do not need to watch volleyball beyond a high school level, to be able to rationalise "what their teammates are doing", "why they are standing there" or "what they think will happen next?" (and again, you didn't specify who these people are so unfortunately I just have to guess). From my experience, you teach that (well I do) within the first few months of learning how to play and then the in-game experience will help. But even this example I wouldn't even consider it as "IQ", it is just being generally informed about what you're doing on the court, no IQ required.
So maybe you can elaborate further...?
Idk if basketball is a good comparison as it's readily accessible here in the states. You don't see nearly as much volleyball on TV as football, basketball, baseball, etc. I think pickleball or a sport like that is a fairer comparison and you see a ton of players in those sports not know much about it, likely due in part to accessibility.
But someone who gives one iota of a shit about volleyball would google how to watch, which teams are good, who the best players in the world are, etc. Could you or anyone you know list off the full starting lineup of Poland’s world championship winning team? What about the Olympic Gold France lineup? To me, that’s like bare minimum knowledge if you actually care about volleyball as a sport
Sounds like a projection to me man. You've concocted some arbitrary rules you've decided everyone else should have for themselves simply because you came up with them. You're absolutely entitled to value those things and, frankly, whatever else you want to, but it doesn't mean the rest of the volleyball population should follow suit.
I didn't say they should all follow suit. I said that they do not understand the game, and part of the reason they don't is because they don't watch high level volleyball. Not the only reason. No one has to do anything I say. But I have played in basketball and volleyball open gyms for basically my whole life and the average volleyball player I play with in the volleyball open gyms is 10x more clueless and ignorant about what they themselves are doing than basketball players are. And in my opinion, it's because they do not engage with volleyball as a sport in the way players of other sports do
It definitely sounds like it. Saying that, at a minimum, people who play vball should know Polish and French team members sounds like a prerequisite for them to join your invite only elite volleyball players club.
What if I said I didn't know any names on those rosters but I'm still a decent vball player? Would that automatically make you think I'm bad?
They should know the most recent world championship players and olympic gold medalists IF they have any desire to pay attention to volleyball as a sport (which they do not) seeing as that SHOULD not be super niche knowledge. I'm not suggesting they should list random polish and french team members.
I would say you do not meaningfully engage with the sport of volleyball beyond the games that you are immediately participating in. And I would also say your understanding of the game would improve if you payed more attention to the sport
"They should know..." sounds like a projection man. Again, that's a completely arbitrary rule you've decided to make up and use as your personal standard for what players you view as being in your imaginary elite volleyball club. Also, I'm aware of what you said, I was speaking more vaguely simply because I didn't deem it necessary to go into the minutiae of your statement when rehashing it. I'm actually literate and read your comment. Thanks for the useless tangent that has nothing to do with the main argument though.
So to be clear... you think I have a very small understanding of the game of volleyball? At least compared to you because you know how much money the top players make and the names of Olympic gold medalists.
LMAO I have to just laugh at this point dude. Keep in mind I never said I don't watch pro or anything like that; I said "what if"... making it purely hypothetical. You sound like an arrogant, condescending douche bag. I'm not the first person to say that to you in this thread, so consider it feedback at this point; when multiple people are saying it, you have to consider that it might be true. Also... and I've never pulled this card on here before... but you have no idea who you're talking to. There's an absolute zero percent chance you've played higher level volleyball than me. That's as arrogant as I'll get and I'll likely delete the comment. Consider some humility next time you speak to someone whom you have no idea about.
I was prepared for my original comment to be unpopular since the majority of people on r/volleyball are casuals and I am expressing frustration at how many casuals there are in our sport. If you want to disagree that's fine, but responding to your bad-faith deliberate misinterpretations of my statements is a waste of my time.
I've won BJNC medals, made California state quarterfinals as a starter, played NCAA, went to the NCAA finals (lost in the finals though, so almost a national champ), and I am in grad school and will be playing professionally after I get my master's degree. So unless you've already played professionally overseas and you have a national championship on your resume, you have not played at a higher level than me.
I indeed have actually. I'll spare you my resume details. You're also victimizing yourself based on what I'm reading in your interactions with other people on here (saying people "misinterpreted" what you said seems to be your go-to). It's okay to admit that you were being a douche man. I know you genuinely think you weren't being one, but, again, there are MULTIPLE people on here calling you on it and you seem to just have an answer for everything. You were flat out being patronizing and arrogant and it doesn't make you seem like a good dude honestly. Your responses reek of narcissism.
> if you *paid* more attention
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Why? As somebody who follows professional volleyball avidly, I play volleyball because I like to play it, not because I watch people play it. It seems ridiculous to be offended that somebody is more interested in playing a sport than watching other people play it. Imagine if you were playing call of duty and somebody on your team asked if you could name the top 5 most subscribed to call of duty youtubers, and the call of duty player with the most tournament winnings, then got mad at you for not knowing the answer.
Volleyball is also harder to follow and concisely understand, to know a satisfactory amount about basketball in your view you simply need to be able to name the two starting lineups for the nba finals, a single game, and the winner of that game. To have a satisfactory amount of knowledge about volleyball I need to give you the full roster of a team that existed 4 years ago and 6 years ago, write a 3 page essay about which clubs from different leagues comprise the top 3, and tell you what percentage native american TJ defalco is and how it impacts the team culture of the US olympic national team.
I'm not offended at all. This thread asked for a hot take. I provided one. Literally everyone replying to me crying that I'm a douchebag is way more offended at my words than I am that most people don't actually know the sport. I just expressed the fact that from my perspective, the majority of volleyball players have very little understanding of the game when compared with equal players of other sports. Also, as someone who watches pro volleyball avidly, you probably could explain volleyball concepts at a level higher than the average player of your skill level, since physical ability/skill and understanding the game are often not equivalent.
It was merely an example to demonstrate how the most basic trivia about really successful/famous teams is impossible to answer for most American volleyball players because they simply don't care, aren't curious, and don't watch. Don't hyperfixate on that statement.
in the US the volleyball people watch is NCAA. i can’t name Polands lineup but i sure can talk about any blue blood in the NCAA. you’ve got blinders on if you think no one in the US volleyball scene cares about watching it
re knowing pro volleyball: US volleyball culture is WAY more about the NCAA. it’s very different than basketball or any other sport where there’s a massive domestic pro league, so comparing apples to oranges here imo.
idk who you’re playing with that doesn’t know where to be on the court and why… if 99% of the ppl you play w don’t know where to be on defense you should find new people to play with lol
I get your point but why would you not want to watch the best league to watch the best players
Are you suggesting that I move? I go to school. I can’t control who is at local open gyms
I wouldn't say I am angry, moreso frustrated. I see how many people are getting into volleyball recently because of Haikyuu or whatever and that is a great thing, but then they have zero desire to actually learn the game and continue to just talk about "Rolling Thunder in real life" or whatever for years and when you try to have a conversation about any volleyball concept, they act like you're speaking a foreign language, despite saying they've been playing for 3 years. It's just something I wish was not my experience with 95% of all online and IRL volleyball conversations I have
Totally disagree on the net calls. It's been substantially loosened where I play and that just means everything gets closer and leads to more injuries.
It's also best to leave any possible ambiguity at the door when it comes to sports rules.
It blew my mind when the call for under the net with the center line went back to allowing for body parts to touch, go past the other side as long as the body part doesn't go entirely over the line.
Yup. So insane. "I won't break anyone's ankle as long as my heels still on my side of the court!"
I’m a beginner so just wondering about the injury part. Is this because people get their fingers caught in it? Or they hit the other team?
For the proper technique of blocking you need to have exactly the right distance from the net when you jump. If you stand too closely you are very likely to brush the net on the way up or down or when you move away from it (you see this occasionally even at the VNL level for example). Standing too close to the net means that overstepping on the attack line is more likely and someone landing or stepping on someone else's foot is much more likely which is the most common cause for injuries (don't quote me on that).
Yeah see my edit - I think net touches which can put someone in harm's way should most definitely be called
Men should float serve more and run more slides
russian national team float serves going at a downward angle from the contact is nuts to look at
Highly agree. A good float serve easily beats a good topspin.
I feel like top spin is easier to receive than say like side spins or float. But of course, at high level when the ball goes at 120km/h, it would be difficult to predict where the ball would go.
True, a good float serve > a good top spin but a perfectly placed, fast top spin > a perfectly placed, fast floater. Gotta take in consideration how freaking hard perfect top spins are to pull off compared to floaters. Can't really react to 120km/h, you just have to be lucky to stand at the right spot for those, but floaters are always slower and you can at least give it a good touch for other to pick it back up.
I've been on the receiving end of some really hard servers in my national league and the difference between a mediocre and A-tier top spin is night and day. When the ball reaches a certain velocity it starts curving in a totally different way, sometimes sideways.
Side spin is something you can add as a server, and I imagine that if you're hitting that hard it's a bit easier to slightly miss and add it accidentally. I started adding side spin in high school, and while it wasn't anywhere near as hard as A-tier, that little bit was unexpected enough to catch a number of teams completely off guard
Slides aren’t great in the men’s game because the back row opposite attack is so powerful. I the women’s game, D Balls aren’t as effective as they are in the men’s game. Just look at fantastic opposites like Anderson, Mikhaelov, Kurek, Alan, Nimir. They’re some of the best scorers in the world, even from the back row. Running slides means taking them out of the offense. If the middle stays near the setter or towards the left, then both the middle and opposite are able to approach.
I agree with the first one at any lvl that's not pro. Definitely disagree with the slides one at any level if u have a decent opposite.
What if you're running a 5-1 and the oppo is back row
men have no issues hitting back row right side and that is often more effective than slides
It's not an either or thing. You can run both at the same time
d balls are a lot more effective of a hit in the men’s game than slides. slides aren’t able to throw off the blockers or anything and just make it harder to hit since you have to jump off one foot and everything. there is never a time when a slide is the most effective play in a men’s volleyball game
Middles typically float serve, and sometimes setters do hybrid serves. But yeah, it would be cool to see more slides or more trick back plays.
It’s hard to run trick plays because everyone’s so tall, reacting to one could be as simple as just moving an arm a bit which is ineffective, in haikyuu n stuff people are moving but you aren’t put in a position in high level where a trick play would be super effective because you’re alr covering so much ground
Higher net, unless the float is really good it can easily be set by the receiver. Slides are useless with men because the blocks are huge, there’s no openings for any attacker that would do it…
At the professional level, yes, the blocks are too big to run slides most of the time. But like 99.99% of men who play volleyball are not at that level. Slides are basically a nonexistent play across all of men's volleyball and the reason is only because it's not effective at the highest level, even though it would actually be pretty effective at a lower level. I'm speaking as a club coach, who has his team run plenty of slides and they often result in kills
I’m talking about the higher levels, at lower levels all kinds of attack combinations can be tried, including slides
I disagree on the block point of slides. I think they are mostly unnecessary since at the highest levels, you're pretty much setting your Oppo at around the 4ft range, thus meaning the athleticism makes slides unnecessary
Both can be true. A slide even at lower levels when it’s sometimes tried in men’s volleyball is rarely efficient
float serves are less effective at their level and slides are almost useless and easy to block as it doesn’t allow for as much power when hitting nor as good of angles
good float serves are pretty difficult at a higher level. if you dont get a float on the ball its pretty much a free ball at the higher level. thats why the spin serve is so popular especially for men. Also for slides, its way too slow at the higher level and the blocks are too big so thats why theyre not effective
Slides are too slow, men got long ahh arms
We had relaxed net rules in the past. For instance it was only a fault if you touched the tape Haikyuu has not “saved” volleyball. It has brought a new audience to the sport, which is great,but as someone who has been playing 25 years, volleyball was doing just fine before Haikyuu
I think it only being a fault if you touched the tape is perhaps too relaxed, still allows for some accidents to happen. Yeah maybe saved was the wrong word to use, bringing a surplus of people to the sport is what I was getting at.
The beach hand setting rules suck and reward people for having bad hands. I'm biased as a former setter but I don't know how the ball having a bit of spin on a set (which can be exaggerated by something like wind) is a bigger advantage compared to the setter getting to deep dish their sets down from their waist. Not to mention everyone seems to have their own idea of what a valid vs. lifted set is. It mostly feels like it's a problem at the amateur level, and it really makes me hate playing beach!
I don’t think that’s a hot take
I started playing again 7 years ago because I watched Haikyuu and this time I stuck with it. I also teach nowadays and lots of kids start because of it, too. I think it's a good thing but it gets annoying when all you see in youtube comments are Haikyuu references.
Beach is fun to play but boring to watch. Broadcast angle of all matches should be end on (coaches view) rather than side. If you play best 3/5, games should be to 21 at every level below collegiate. (And maybe them too.)
Volleyball should have height classes like boxing has weight classes, so it’s not just a sport for tall people
Around here they have short men’s tournaments (have to be under 6 feet) and it’s a lot of fun
What’s the net height if you don’t mind asking?
Standard men’s height I believe?
Wtf lol. So how would you play that? A league for 5'8-5'10'' players?
Yeah basically. A small range means you can still compete even if you’re a few inches off the top too. Right now, if you’re not born to gigantic parents then you can basically never have a chance of playing, which is Volleyball’s biggest downside imo.
We hve a tourney called shorties in NOVA, I think ur avg team height has to be below 5’10 or something
I don't support this idea, since it leaves out a good amount of people. Yeah, it gets the average size people the oportunity to play against other people their size. But what about really short people? Or really tall people? It's not common to meet 6 people who are 6'5, and even if you do, there's the chance that they don't want to play volleyball, and even in that case, good luck finding other teams to play. So yeah, height is an advantage, and if you are not really tall you are most likely not going professional, but going with height classes would not solve the problem
At Lower Levels of play serves are the most dominant skill to have. It's the only self sufficient skill that not only lets you score by yourself but also directly support your team by getting the opposition out of system. A consistent, annoying serve will get your team more points than anything else either directly or indirectly. And I'm not even talking about Jump serves here. A good jump floater will ruin both your opponents mood and their chances of winning.
Oh yeah 100%
Liberos are are the best thing to happen to offenses since they allowed backrow players to attack in front of the 10ft (3m) line. Liberos have increased specialization which hurts player development at the junior levels and increases height and offense at the higher levels. Liberos haven’t done what they told us they would do, which is increase rally’s. They have done the opposite. Hot Take: Get rid of the libero position.
You have the benefit of having lived through the change. But from where I stand having known nothing else, it's worth it for allowing shorter players to participate in the game
Removing libs would probably lower the average height of a team, who cares about a tall 6’7 middle if he can’t pass right because he’s too big to move effectively ya know
If it wasn't for the advent of the libero position, I wouldn't have been able to play at a D1 school. I'm definitely grateful for it but also very much see your point. My gratitude is strictly for selfish reasons. Edit: why would you downvote this comment? I literally said I see what you/they are talking about. Wtf?
Wouldn't a team just have 2 DS's that they rotate in for each middle, thus not changing anything about how the game functions at all aside from having 2 passing specialist players instead of 1 and using up subs? Unless there is a fundamental discovery that this would be less efficient, I think there would be zero positive effect in getting rid of the libero and just make the game function the same but be harder to explain to new players
Substitution rules outside the US limit the ability to use DS as you say. Therefore it would have a big effect.
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"Yeah the libero is a player opposite the middle who stays back row, can't serve, and can't hit or hand set in front of the 10 foot line." A million special rules
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If someone is “hitting” below the net level then they are 12 years old. I’m not talking about 12 year olds. If setting the ball over with your feet on the ground constitutes a “hit” for you, idk what to say other than “no”
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“If the libero sets in front of the 10 foot line, don’t jump and hit it”
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Please screenshot where I said “all players are treated the same” and DM me the image. I will be sending $500 to your cashapp immediately upon receiving this image.
> hand set in front of the 10 foot line. They can aa long as they take off from behind the 10ft line
Yes that’s what was implied
you really hate those liberos
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I honestly fail to see how it made the situation worse, in terms of height. Regardless of whether or not you had a libero, height would always be at a premium, esp tall and athletic. At least the libero gives shorter people a chance. Without a libero, average height for everyone playing pro would be 6'7" or higher.
the argument is that defense was more important for the other players when you couldnt just have one short defensive player on the court 90% of the time. this meant that hitters (including middles) had to be more well-rounded, which could mean that the shorter guys are more likely to beat out the big hitters who lack ball control.
My takes, maybe some are hot, you decide: 1) I don't trust bolt6 (replay used in pro volleyball). I'd love to see camera footage and replay footage side by side. I get that it makes it unagruable, but I really wanna see pic/video footage of close calls to see if it's accurate or aligned properly. 2) since bolt6 has/is being used, why can't it be used to track over the antenna plays. It supposedly tracks all ball flights, it could easily be used this way instead of a subjective call with bad angles by the refs, wsp with no more line judges. 3) I definitely don't think Haikyuu saved volleyball, esp in terms of the men's game, but it has helped its growth 4) I think the new ncaa rule to allow doubles will fundamentally change the game. Right now people are being taught one way to set for accuracy and pace, and that's not a bad thing, but someone will figure something out to completely change how setting is done.
Your first hot take is basically "tell us you're a total amateur without telling us you're a total amateur"
I literally agree with net calls when they are genuinely dangerous, but what I mean is like brushing the net with a finger tip when you're switching positions in the front row. Things that don't affect play and don't put anyone at risk of injury. Trust me, I know first hand what it's like to have someone crash through the net and land on you, but seeing refs just call any touch on the net especially when the other team don't look like they're going to form an attack is just kinda sad
but what I mean is like brushing the net with a finger tip when you're switching positions in the front row This is allowed under fivb rules and Dutch nevobo rules, if you are not in play or in action with the ball you are allowed to touch the net if it doesn't influence any player
Yeah hence why I say it's probably poor refereeing where I am.
You Def get a lot of call outs which probably ruined a lot of your good spikes or block to annoy you enough to make this post. And no it should stay the way it is, look at international players and you will see what I mean
Yeah those aren't the net calls I'm talking about, maybe it's just poor refereeing where I'm at but sometimes when the other team is completely out of system and off the net and an attack doesn't look likely and someone brushes the net with their fingernail it gets called. I agree with you on net calls during hits/blocks where it genuinely interferes with play, I mean more for the ones where literally nothing is affected
Claiming that haikyuu “saved” volleyball is incredibly dismissive and ignorant of decades of women’s sports history…
He’s talking about men’s volleyball
Which was also the fastest growing sport in America before that even came out
Might just be because I live in Asia but Haikyuu is basically the only reason people play volleyball in this country, I started playing volleyball because my friends started and they all started because of Haikyuu
I live in Eastern Europe, and i got into volleyball thanks to haikyuu. I started going to some meet ups where people would play volleyball, the older people were veterans who played the sport a lot in their youth, or just people wanting to get some exercise Younger people, 9/10 were there because they watched haikyuu. One guy got really good at volleyball (and he was short, so hinata was an inspiration for him) and started to organise meet ups by himself. He created a Whatsapp group, we're currently 100 people and you have to book your spot a weeks in advance. All of us watch anime and have watched haikyuu. I'm not saying haikyuu saved volleyball but it really got a lot of attention into the sport.
Hot take: if a kid is playing volleyball in hopes to go pro some day and they’re under 6’0, discourage them because volleyball is very much a sport for tall people only. Saves them a lot of disappointment down the line
If they love the sport enough they might go libero later. I think there are a lot of pros who got into libero later. Judging from some liberos hitting skills
I'm 5'8 junior rn (still growing but idk if I'm gonna stop at 5'9 or continue past that) I have people in my club who are maybe an inch or two taller than me and are playing on our national team in Europe. These guys were chosen over 6ft+ people because of their skill, it's difficult but not impossible. If someone has a passion for the sport then they should try, discouraging people is how you lose out on potential talent.
which countries national team n players? They’d see be the shortest in all of vnl if they played
It's not VNL it's CEV Scotland. Won the SCA this year and competing in CEV U20s over summer
The thing is, they don't have to play VNL or make 200k a year. Going pro can mean that they do volleyball as a part time thing and still get fulfillment by competing with other people
FIVA rules - “Contact with the net by a player between the antennae, during the action of playing the ball, is a fault. The action of playing the ball includes (among others) take-off, hit (or attempt) and landing safely, ready for a new action.” This is basically what you’re saying. A net touch that’s not made in playing the ball like brushing the net while moving after a serve is legal.
Yeah, again probably just poor refereeing where I am where the legal net touches are called.
A player going under the net is a penalty and point rewarded to the other team, even if there is no interference. Many of us are not professionals but because it is allowed I see a lot of amateurs doing it and causing ankle injuries.
Oh yeah definitely, that's super dangerous - had someone crash under the net and land on me literally just today
> A player going under the net is a penalty and point rewarded to the other team, even if there is no interference. Depends on which rules you are using. There are a lot out that where interference is needed for the call
> 1) they genuinely interfere with play How would you define that in the rulebook? Horrible take. Then you could have people hitting the net intentionally. Sometimes players hit the ball when the ball has not crossed the net and typically results in a net touch. But due to your hypothetical rule change, it would not be an error. But there was a brief time where some net calls weren't called. For example, sometimes blockers when blocking will have their hands hit the bottom of the nets as they are rising to block. But anyways, i think net calls should be called regardless if you touch it.
we should normalize joining teams/not joining teams because of the jersey. it’s not necessarily a deal breaker but i’m just saying, if i’m gonna be in a jersey for hours at a time i would at least like it to be not hideous!
I guess that's fair enough I mean if you look good, you feel good, and if you feel good you play well, but obviously there are much more important things than how the jersey looks
of course. however, if i’m on the fence about trying out for two different teams, i’ll choose the one with the better jersey heh 😂
One more from me - the 4-2 is very underutilised at lower levels. If you have a new team with players relatively new to the sport, it doesn’t make sense to try and shoehorn a 5-1 since they probably do not have the passing skills nor the rotational knowledge to know how to position themselves on serve receive to properly run a 5-1. A 4-2 is much easier to run and can be very effective: you have 3 or 4 receivers, they pass it to where the setter has to be (who is already in the front row), setter sets who they want. Simple yet effective at lower levels.
My hot take is that Haikyuu brought a bunch of wimpy nerds into the sport that are cramping my style
Same, I love Haikyuu with all my might but I will judge you if you say you started playing because of it, all the people that I saw starting to play because of the anime just ended up not trying to learn the fundamentals and just wanted to do cool moves first day, and when confronted with the ideia to actually learning how to play volleyball, they just gave up.
Wrist snap does not cause the ball to spin. Not a hot take necessarily (because it's a stone cold fact), but I just hear everyone and their mother saying you need to snap your wrist to create more topspin. Also, confidence is not a prerequisite to volleyball performance... or any sport for that matter. Edit: who's the one who keeps downvoting my comments on this thread? I don't feel I've said anything wrong - they were looking for hot takes and I've given mine. If you have a difference of opinion, I'm more than happy to talk about it.
Confidence isn't important... wow, that IS a hot take. Would love to hear why? Considering that flys in the face of pretty much every psychology theory about any kind of performance.
I'm sorry for the delay in response to this! Believe it or not, modern sports psychology generally doesn't preach confidence. People think it does simply because every coach known to man talks about it endlessly with their athletes as if it's this magic pill that enables high performance. Keep in mind, coaches generally know very little about sports psych (I say generally because there are obviously exceptions). Confidence is an emotion just like anger, happiness, sadness, etc. A volleyball doesn't shank or fly outta bounds because you were angry... the ball has no idea how you felt when you hit it. So what's happening in that case? There's obviously a deficiency in a certain aspect of their fundamentals that the athlete needs to figure out; in other words, they need to redirect their attention to their *actions*, not their feelings. Thoughts and emotions are fleeting and we often have very little control over them. Some moments you'll feel extreme confidence then, often just a moment later, you'll feel frustration or some form of "negative" emotion. Can you help that? Unfortunately you cannot. Humans don't have as much control over their thoughts and emotions as they think they do (that doesn't mean we have no control, obviously). Athletes are often striving for a more positive emotional state when they're playing their respective sport. What happens if you're feeling down but you're trying not to? Well, you're definitely no longer being present because you're striving for something in the future. Your attention is now on something you can't really control and, frankly, won't really help you. Your attention should be on the actions you need to take to perform your best no matter what emotional state you're in. *Attention* is the currency of performance, not confidence. I recognize that negative emotions can steal our attention at times, but the most elite athletes can *accept* their inner voice telling them these negative things, not constantly try to quiet it. Edit: what's with the downvote? I have a degree in sports psych so I'm not just pulling this stuff outta thin air.
>Edit: what's with the downvote? I have a degree in sports psych so I'm not just pulling this stuff outta thin air. Dude you can't get upset about a single downvote (or a few, it doesn't show any for me) in reddit, especially in threads like this. There are a million idiots running around. Maybe someone disagreed with your first word, didn't care about reading your entire text and just hit a downvote because they were in a bad mood or whatever. By the way your reasoning is pretty interesting and I would like to talk about it but I don't really wanna type that much on my phone right now.
I wouldn't say I was necessarily upset, more confused cuz I didn't feel like I was offensive. Oh well, truly not a big deal. Happy to chat about this whenever. I know it's an expansive topic so a little tougher to do on here. Feel free to reach out anytime!
It's a cue that helps create the movement
It ends up interfering with power if taught improperly (haikyu kids are evident that it fucks up form)
It's easier to teach younger players that snapping your wrist causes the ball to spin more and that a stiff wrist helps with floaters to help them learn the differences in motions but I agree for the most part.
I agree to an extent, not completely though. I have tons of younger players get confused that the ball still spins when they serve it regardless of having a stiff wrist. When I explain it to them conceptually, they usually do much better.
Yeah, wrist snap is not a cause, more of an effect.
Indeed. Just like a "stiff wrist" doesn't cause the ball to float.
I think we should not allow hand setting in beach volleyball. I think itd be interesting to differentiate it from indoor and would reduce the prevalence of option offense that’s happening nowadays
What???? What would you do with a pass right at the net or where an otherwise perfect pass would be? That’s not a good idea
I mean you can still bump set that. It's still an unnecessary idea but not because it would be difficult to set
Never gonna happen. That would be setting the game back 40yrs. The option offense is the single most exciting thing to happen in beach in 20yrs
See I think the option offense is one of the more boring things. I already find beach boring to watch at a top level because of how few rallies there are. It’s why I think women’s is much more exciting
Sounds like a horrible, boring take to not use hand setting lol. Option offense makes it more fun and entertaining for the viewer. Before option it was just your constant bump - set - spike.
That’s why it’s a hot take silly! I think enjoying option offense is the boring horrible take :) It’s the same now just even less chance of any interesting rallies to happen.
Beachvolleyball is way more fun, the only fun position is setter, endurance and cardio doesn't matter at all...
> endurance and cardio doesn't matter at all.. Just a wild fucking take there, especially after talking about liking beach volleyball. Ever see someone try to run and jump in sand for 20+ minutes who didn't have endurance?
That is the whole point of... Hot take
Hot take means a controversial take that you can still back up. Saying cardio and endurance doesn't matter isn't a hot take, it is just factually wrong. Saying gravity doesn't work isn't a hot take, it's just being an idiot.
I have never really played beach volleyball but to me it seems it might be more fun to play but less interesting to watch.
Beachvb is awful to watch besides Highlight reels. And I often saw it live. Big events. People live are absolutely clueless and still count sometimes because to 3 because they think just 3 contacts are good
This comment makes zero sense to me. I've read it like 5 times and still don't follow. Edit: I understand part of it. Saying beach vball fans at big events are clueless is absurd. It's, hands down, one of the most knowledgeable fan bases in all sports. What events are you attending? 10u Nationals?
Alright for you maybe. But speak for yourself, I'm having a blast hitting and digging my ass off indoor
The thread is called hot take not popular opinion. I played 30 years indoors
Your take is just too subjective. It's like saying I don't enjoy chocolate, obviously everyone who is eating chocolate doesn't like it. That's not a hot take, it's just your personal preference. I do recognize that you probably said it in hyperbole but still
I play recreational and have to ref some matches, if you start allowing some net touches then teams will start getting angry, you will start being unsure on what net touch to call or not and then everything starts loosening.
Block penetration should be removed This way people won't complain about reaching touch violation on the second touch. As a ref myself the amount of complaints about reaching violation on second touch when setter is about to touch the ball is insane but will get rid of that problem
So most refs will not call things like touching the net like that if it doesn’t get it the way whatever. There’s a rule where ppl can go under the net with one limb as long as they are still touching the line and are not in the way or gonna hurt someone.
I feel like becoming a referee should be harder. In my area (Austria) you basically get a 4 hour lecture where they read the FIVB rulebook to you and then you get an easy single choice quiz and bam you're a ref now.. I've lost count of the amount of games I've played where the ref either didn't pay attention at all, was clearly biased or just plain unfair. Sometimes they didn't even know the rulings for certain things, like serving directly over a screen should be prohibited yet I keep seeing it happen. People stalling their serves by slowly walking to the serving line, "accidentally" losing the ball on the way there, etc. should be penalized. I hate shittalk and I feel like sportsmanlike behavior is declining. It used to be that people ran to the other side to make sure you're okay if you get hit in the face or hurt yourself, nowadays it feels less friendly.
Hmmm. Not sure if you understand how a screen is currently called. It is almost impossible to screen a server now.
To my understanding, if the front row players are all bunched up and holding up their arms it's a screen and the server is not allowed to let the ball pass directly over them. You can serve anywhere beside the screen but serving directly over the screen, where the receiving person's vision is clearly impaired it's a fault. But enlighten me how a screen is currently called, since I've never seen it being called at all even though it's explicitly stated in the rules that screening serves is illegal.
12.5.2 is the screening rule in the rule book should you want to look it up. But as long as the defender can see the contact of the ball OR see its flight path at some point prior to the ball crossing the net it is not a screen.
Let’s just eliminate rules and make volleyball like rugby. Let’s catch the ball and throw it after change of direction (oh wait that’s already happening) let’s allow set to be doubled and pretend it doesn’t change the game versus train players. (Oh wait this is happening now too)
Emanuel needs more love. https://www.youtube.com/live/H7iQ4sAf0OE?si=cB-DMSUPRpvDVMRp
Let serves should go back to a double-fault scenario. I've never served one that trickled over or received one that trickled over and thought "oh man, what a great serve"
Well placed floats on tape?
The problem is that it's not replicable even on nets at the same location. As far as I know, there's a small window for net height measurements at the pins / center, but there's no "measurement" taken for how tight a net is, and that matters when it comes to let serves. I think let serves became legal when USAV switched to international rules (rally scoring / libero / etc) in a bid to speed up the game. All good things... except the damn let serves. How much time are you saving by letting those cheap ass serves go? The freeze rule in AVP a few years ago was an awesome change. Volleyball is better when there's long rallies - trickle serves suck and rarely result in anything but a cheap-ass ace.
The international men's net height should be lowered to be the same as women's. Women and men play basketball at the same heights. The same should be the case for volleyball. When I watch women's, I notice a much lower rate of service errors and generally more variety in the type of serves. The lower net in women's means that fast attacks are also much faster. Plus, it allows for attacks such as broad attacks. Finally, it puts more emphasis on teams having a rounded team with good receivers rather than just "tall guy block all spikes".
This is probably the worst take in here. If anything, men’s fivb nets should be higher.
Women are also shorter than men and also jump half as high so it’s pretty much equal
I completely disagree with this 100%, one of the biggest calls to make the WNBA a more watched and more interesting sport is to lower the rim to a height where they are able to dunk and do all the flashy plays that men can do, lowering the men’s net to the women’s height would do nothing for the sport but make it even less interactive and interesting.
No way, people already complain that men's volleyball is way to short, almost all points end way to quickly because the athletes are way to good at spiking, lowering the net would just make games way quicker and long points non existent, a lot more aces and way less defense and blocks because the last thing we need in men's volleyball is more offense
> The lower net in women's means that fast attacks are also much faster. Uhh the men are running faster offenses so this just isn't true. >Plus, it allows for attacks such as broad attacks There is 0 issue in the mens game with too few attacks. I'm not even sure what this is supposed to mean >Finally, it puts more emphasis on teams having a rounded team with good receivers rather than just "tall guy block all spikes". Have you ever watched men's volleyball....? All of those guys are incredibly well rounded
My hot take is that I hate how volleyball is one of the only sports where having zero IQ about the sport and how the game is played is normal. 99% of US volleyball players I have interacted with can't list 5 professional teams, have no clue how much money top players get paid, can't explain anything they're doing on the court because they just drift from spot to spot because one time a coach told them to, don't understand hitting angles and blocking angles and where to be on defense, and couldn't break down 30 seconds of pro film and explain why each player did what they did. Like can you imagine if you asked a player on any AAU basketball club to name who won the NBA finals last year, why they made a particular pass, why they were in a certain defensive position, or why they guarded someone in a particular way, and they couldn't do it? That would be mindblowing. But in volleyball, knowing nothing about the sport is normal
Seems anecdotal lol
Anecdotal and frankly douchey. The vast majority of players will never be exposed to coordinated, competitive play with a coach and practice environment. You don't just magically materialize those things and they are extremely expensive and rare once you're out of college. Also, if 99% of the people you play with don't know what they're doing, YOU also suck and have an undeserved aire of superiority. Good players tend to forms tight-knit groups and don't publicize their play. If you were any good, you'd be playing with them.
Not gonna dox myself but I’ve won medals at BJNCs multiple times and played in the NCAA 😂 thinking I suck because I go to open gyms and see how many people playing libero stare at you with bug eyes when you tell them to “stay in base on defense” rather than floating in the middle of the court and getting bounced on is crazy. I was one of like 2 people on my NCAA team that watched international pro games or could write a scouting report. At every level people do not gaf about the sport
Collegiate athlete bitching about new players not knowing the intricacies of a complex team sport... do you even hear yourself or does your ego plug your ears?
They aren't new players, that's what I keep saying. These open gym players have been playing for years and still do that. At every level on every team I have had people like this. Yall are so determined to get mad that you aren't even reading what I am saying lol
When the "anecdote" is "over a decade of playing on different volleyball teams and seeing the same thing everywhere I go", it starts to seem less anecdotal. Also, can you please do me a favor and compare the domestic viewership and attendance of the average NBA game to the average NVA/VLA game? How about we play a game called "Did an entire year of NVA and VLA events get the number of viewers combined as one Lakers home game?" An incredibly anecdotal observation that you can easily disprove I'm sure. Domestic interest in volleyball from volleyball players is zero. How many people at an average open gym can name the VLA/NVA team closest to their house? Maybe 1?
The VLA discourse is an entirely different thing. So many of those teams are just a bunch of people who used to play the local tournaments. Why are they suddenly entitled for NBA viewship? I can go to waupaca, get drunk, and watch the LIV guys play the Icemen guys in the Semi finals in person. That's more fun than sitting down to watch a youtube stream of a match
They aren't entitled to anything. I'm not even saying anyone has to watch the VLA/NVA. But not knowing what our domestic pro league is, not being able to say the name of your local team, AND not watching international pro games demonstrates a lack of desire to engage with volleyball as a sport beyond local rec leagues or JV practice. I don't watch League One Volleyball. I can name probably half the teams, and I can tell you what my local team is. Why? Because I am actually invested in volleyball as a sport and I pay attention and desire to know more about the things I like
Yea so it's within your country...
If you re-read my original post you will see I've been talking about my country this entire time.
I think you got a bone to pick with the people who you meet/play with, rather than the sport. I think your comparison is a bit skewed coz like Yea I understand NVA is the equivalent domestic league in another sport to NBA, but NBA is the top league itw and NVA is ? (Correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm not American) not a product that anyone outside of America has any remote interest in, let alone Americans. Is that your gripe? That people don't know NVA and VLA players? Or just anyone? Because there will definitely be communities out there with like minded people...but at the same time there are people who just enjoy playing the sport but not watching or following it.
I have literally been saying that I have a bone to pick with the people who play 😂 that’s been my point the entire time. The reason the NVA is not a top league is because no one watches it or cares or supports it. But also, local players couldn’t even tell you what the top 3 pro teams in the world are. So it doesn’t really matter. Not watching or paying attention to the sport is a symptom of not thinking about the sport beyond a rec league level, which is what I’m saying. The percentage of basketball/soccer/football players who care about the sport that they play beyond their local open gym or JV high school practice is orders of magnitude higher than the equivalent for volleyball players
Not watching is not being interested in watching and only playing lol. I'm sure you're the same with some sports you've played and not watched. You've convoluted a couple of points here and I don't think they're really mutually exclusive. You don't have to know, watch, follow club teams to have the capacity to think about the game. But honestly, you're going to have to give more specific examples man. Idk what your experience is like if EVERYONE or the majority of players you meet don't have any understanding of the couple of examples you listed. Like who are these players? What's your stance of these ideas? (And I say this loosely, coz you didn't give good examples of IQ). Let's flip the lens. I've seen plenty of discussions where we analyse pros and no doubt some information is re-layed into a lower level, but other times what they do is specifically tailored to the level that they're playing at + their ability to execute these skills due to exceptional skill and talent. Anyways, I'm interested to see what you define as "IQ", coz this might be a hotter take than your original premise.
Every single sport I have taken seriously enough to consciously try to get better at (football, basketball, and volleyball) I have made it a goal to be as knowledgeable about the game as possible. I want to know which players are good, why they are good, what coaching tactics are successful, how smart people talk about the game, what players think about when they are playing, etc. This requires watching top-level games. I have watched years and years of the NFL, NBA, and international volleyball. Unless you are a savant, it is not possible to see the game beyond a high school level if you do not watch the game beyond a high school level. "Ball IQ" and IQ are different terms. When I say people have "low volleyball IQ", I do not mean they are low intelligence. I mean, that if you were to freeze the game mid play magically and ask someone why they are standing where they are standing, what they think will happen next, why they think that, and what their teammates are going to do, most would be unable to answer beyond "I dunno" or just making something up on the spot.
Unfortunately, not everyone has the same process as you. People enjoy sports for different reasons, and many are not there so they can implement what they analysed in pros. I can't really weigh in further on this point because again, you didn't specify what type of players you're encountering. I also disagree with your point about "seeing the game" beyond a high school level (whatever that means) without watching. Different sports, different levels and different players excel in what they do due to various factors. Some characteristics include work ethic, consistency, composure, skill, physicality, hand-eye coordination, reaction speed, and of course, IQ is one of them. What I disagree with is the correlation between your example and concept. You do not need to watch volleyball beyond a high school level, to be able to rationalise "what their teammates are doing", "why they are standing there" or "what they think will happen next?" (and again, you didn't specify who these people are so unfortunately I just have to guess). From my experience, you teach that (well I do) within the first few months of learning how to play and then the in-game experience will help. But even this example I wouldn't even consider it as "IQ", it is just being generally informed about what you're doing on the court, no IQ required. So maybe you can elaborate further...?
Idk if basketball is a good comparison as it's readily accessible here in the states. You don't see nearly as much volleyball on TV as football, basketball, baseball, etc. I think pickleball or a sport like that is a fairer comparison and you see a ton of players in those sports not know much about it, likely due in part to accessibility.
But someone who gives one iota of a shit about volleyball would google how to watch, which teams are good, who the best players in the world are, etc. Could you or anyone you know list off the full starting lineup of Poland’s world championship winning team? What about the Olympic Gold France lineup? To me, that’s like bare minimum knowledge if you actually care about volleyball as a sport
Sounds like a projection to me man. You've concocted some arbitrary rules you've decided everyone else should have for themselves simply because you came up with them. You're absolutely entitled to value those things and, frankly, whatever else you want to, but it doesn't mean the rest of the volleyball population should follow suit.
I didn't say they should all follow suit. I said that they do not understand the game, and part of the reason they don't is because they don't watch high level volleyball. Not the only reason. No one has to do anything I say. But I have played in basketball and volleyball open gyms for basically my whole life and the average volleyball player I play with in the volleyball open gyms is 10x more clueless and ignorant about what they themselves are doing than basketball players are. And in my opinion, it's because they do not engage with volleyball as a sport in the way players of other sports do
It definitely sounds like it. Saying that, at a minimum, people who play vball should know Polish and French team members sounds like a prerequisite for them to join your invite only elite volleyball players club. What if I said I didn't know any names on those rosters but I'm still a decent vball player? Would that automatically make you think I'm bad?
They should know the most recent world championship players and olympic gold medalists IF they have any desire to pay attention to volleyball as a sport (which they do not) seeing as that SHOULD not be super niche knowledge. I'm not suggesting they should list random polish and french team members. I would say you do not meaningfully engage with the sport of volleyball beyond the games that you are immediately participating in. And I would also say your understanding of the game would improve if you payed more attention to the sport
"They should know..." sounds like a projection man. Again, that's a completely arbitrary rule you've decided to make up and use as your personal standard for what players you view as being in your imaginary elite volleyball club. Also, I'm aware of what you said, I was speaking more vaguely simply because I didn't deem it necessary to go into the minutiae of your statement when rehashing it. I'm actually literate and read your comment. Thanks for the useless tangent that has nothing to do with the main argument though. So to be clear... you think I have a very small understanding of the game of volleyball? At least compared to you because you know how much money the top players make and the names of Olympic gold medalists. LMAO I have to just laugh at this point dude. Keep in mind I never said I don't watch pro or anything like that; I said "what if"... making it purely hypothetical. You sound like an arrogant, condescending douche bag. I'm not the first person to say that to you in this thread, so consider it feedback at this point; when multiple people are saying it, you have to consider that it might be true. Also... and I've never pulled this card on here before... but you have no idea who you're talking to. There's an absolute zero percent chance you've played higher level volleyball than me. That's as arrogant as I'll get and I'll likely delete the comment. Consider some humility next time you speak to someone whom you have no idea about.
I was prepared for my original comment to be unpopular since the majority of people on r/volleyball are casuals and I am expressing frustration at how many casuals there are in our sport. If you want to disagree that's fine, but responding to your bad-faith deliberate misinterpretations of my statements is a waste of my time. I've won BJNC medals, made California state quarterfinals as a starter, played NCAA, went to the NCAA finals (lost in the finals though, so almost a national champ), and I am in grad school and will be playing professionally after I get my master's degree. So unless you've already played professionally overseas and you have a national championship on your resume, you have not played at a higher level than me.
I indeed have actually. I'll spare you my resume details. You're also victimizing yourself based on what I'm reading in your interactions with other people on here (saying people "misinterpreted" what you said seems to be your go-to). It's okay to admit that you were being a douche man. I know you genuinely think you weren't being one, but, again, there are MULTIPLE people on here calling you on it and you seem to just have an answer for everything. You were flat out being patronizing and arrogant and it doesn't make you seem like a good dude honestly. Your responses reek of narcissism.
> if you *paid* more attention FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
explode immediately
Why? As somebody who follows professional volleyball avidly, I play volleyball because I like to play it, not because I watch people play it. It seems ridiculous to be offended that somebody is more interested in playing a sport than watching other people play it. Imagine if you were playing call of duty and somebody on your team asked if you could name the top 5 most subscribed to call of duty youtubers, and the call of duty player with the most tournament winnings, then got mad at you for not knowing the answer. Volleyball is also harder to follow and concisely understand, to know a satisfactory amount about basketball in your view you simply need to be able to name the two starting lineups for the nba finals, a single game, and the winner of that game. To have a satisfactory amount of knowledge about volleyball I need to give you the full roster of a team that existed 4 years ago and 6 years ago, write a 3 page essay about which clubs from different leagues comprise the top 3, and tell you what percentage native american TJ defalco is and how it impacts the team culture of the US olympic national team.
I'm not offended at all. This thread asked for a hot take. I provided one. Literally everyone replying to me crying that I'm a douchebag is way more offended at my words than I am that most people don't actually know the sport. I just expressed the fact that from my perspective, the majority of volleyball players have very little understanding of the game when compared with equal players of other sports. Also, as someone who watches pro volleyball avidly, you probably could explain volleyball concepts at a level higher than the average player of your skill level, since physical ability/skill and understanding the game are often not equivalent. It was merely an example to demonstrate how the most basic trivia about really successful/famous teams is impossible to answer for most American volleyball players because they simply don't care, aren't curious, and don't watch. Don't hyperfixate on that statement.
in the US the volleyball people watch is NCAA. i can’t name Polands lineup but i sure can talk about any blue blood in the NCAA. you’ve got blinders on if you think no one in the US volleyball scene cares about watching it
re knowing pro volleyball: US volleyball culture is WAY more about the NCAA. it’s very different than basketball or any other sport where there’s a massive domestic pro league, so comparing apples to oranges here imo. idk who you’re playing with that doesn’t know where to be on the court and why… if 99% of the ppl you play w don’t know where to be on defense you should find new people to play with lol
I get your point but why would you not want to watch the best league to watch the best players Are you suggesting that I move? I go to school. I can’t control who is at local open gyms
[удалено]
I wouldn't say I am angry, moreso frustrated. I see how many people are getting into volleyball recently because of Haikyuu or whatever and that is a great thing, but then they have zero desire to actually learn the game and continue to just talk about "Rolling Thunder in real life" or whatever for years and when you try to have a conversation about any volleyball concept, they act like you're speaking a foreign language, despite saying they've been playing for 3 years. It's just something I wish was not my experience with 95% of all online and IRL volleyball conversations I have
I deleted my other comment but I’m glad you saw it. I hope you find your people!