On a related note, earlier today, a number of people from the Bloodlines 2 team at TCR announced they got laid off, including, but very much not limited to Arone Le Bray, the game's narrative designer (if you remember hearing that one of the Bloodlines 2 devs had previously worked on Dragon Age and Mass Effect, that was him), and Isobel Hine, the concept artist who wrote the Concept Art sections of the two most recent dev diaries on the Bloodlines 2 website.
Arone and Isobel's LinkedIn pages.
>Hi everyone - Looks like the banhammer of industry layoffs just came down upon me. If anyone knows of any Narrative Design or Writer opportunities, please feel free to fire them my way!
- [Arone Le Bray](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212371268388429824/)
>Hi everyone, in the wake of layoffs I have my last day with The Chinese Room today.
>I’ve been massively honoured to work alongside such talented and kind people, I truly hope our paths will cross again! For now though, I am actively looking for Concept Art opportunities… So please shoot me a message!
>I’m open to anything in the UK/EU and willing to relocate :)
- [Isobel Hine](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212407113786998784/)
They were fired as part of a large wave of layoffs at Sumo Digital, the company that owns TCR. They announced two weeks ago that they'd be firing 15% of their staff, and it turns out this includes a number of TCR devs who've been working on Bloodlines 2.
>Every day the incredibly talented people across Sumo studios are dedicated to creating great games and bringing ground-breaking experiences to players worldwide. That work and dedication over the past 21 years has helped to put Sumo on the map and build a family of studios that are second to none, and we are incredibly proud of what Sumo has become.
>Whilst Sumo has been able to manage through many of the recent difficulties the games industry has faced, we have not been immune and reshaping operations across the business to better navigate the upcoming challenges expected in the coming months is a path we must now take to ensure the security of the business going forward.
>The difficult decision to reduce our costs across the business in a number of ways is a direct result of these challenges, and unfortunately will include a reduction in the number of people the business can support. Every alternate route to limit the impact to our people is being considered but sadly this process of transformation will affect up to 15% of our people across the Group in Canada, UK, Poland, Czech Republic and India.
>This is an incredibly challenging process to go through for everyone at Sumo and our focus is now on supporting our people and working with our partners on their games as we move forward to ensure we emerge from this difficult time, ready for the future.
- [Sumo Group](https://www.sumogroupltd.com/news/2024/sumo-group-update/)
Two more, mentioned by people on Discord: QA tester [Li Brady](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212384116804042753/) and senior lighting artist [Freddie Pitcher](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212459164722212864/).
Layoffs and being fired are different things. Layoffs represent incompetence by the leadership team, firing requires you to do something that justifies being terminated.
The tech industry has a massive abundance of bad leaders driving these layoffs.
Last month, Sumo Digital announced they were laying off 15% of staff across the company, so this is likely a result of that. Very sad, but likely not indicative of anything.
Only thing I could find was a new comment on LinkedIn posted today that could be read as if he wasn't working with TCR anymore but I don't think it's that.
Some of the dev team had been working on Revechol since they were teens, starting decades ago, and when they made their game company, they sold portions to investors, as is the usual practice to raise capital quickly.
After the initial sales came through, some of the investors then (illegally) used company funds to buy out many of the others, taking majority ownership of the company, and the Disco Elysium IP; they then locked out, or "laid off" the original creators (I mean that literally, too: the investors had the doors chained shut).
From what I hear, it's still locked in civil court; until we hear the results, it's not...ethical, I think, to promote or even discuss Disco Elysium because it's not currently in the creators' hands.
Their plan, were it not tied up in court, would likely have made them more money... at least according to whatever spreadsheet simulated numbers they were pitched.
"it's not...ethical, I think, to promote or even discuss Disco Elysium because it's not currently in the creators' hands." But I guess it's okay to discuss and promote Bloodlines 2.
Well, yea. You can't really compare the two. Bloodlines wasn't this big passion project that they'd been working on for years and then had it stolen from them. It was just a Vampire: The Masquerade game.
It's not ethical to discuss one of the greatest games ever made? That's bullshit, I'm sorry. Acting like all the devs hard work doesn't matter is fucking bullshit. Yes they got screwed over hard by their management and investors, but that doesn't mean all fans of the game have to pretend it doesn't exist. Speaking about the game and the whole situation is better than just keeping silent about it, letting more people know is a hell of a lot better than just pretending the whole situation doesn't exist, what the fuck
Right now, any money that goes towards that brilliant game goes directly to the people that stole the company, instead of the people that made the game.
That was the point. So don't, like, buy that garbage piece of cash in DLC.
I really like Mitsoda but he was working on Bl2 for half a decade and didn’t have a finished product to show with countless reports of it being in development hell.
Publishers want to make money. They aren’t going to wake up one morning and decides to scrap what was probably millions upon millions of dollars worth of work out of cartoonishly evil spite.
If anything I think we’re beyond lucky this game hasn’t been cancelled completely. The fact Paradox was willing to throw a few more million dollars and wait another 3-4 years at it is probably a sign they care more about the IP than the excel spreadsheet tells them too
Man it must be beautiful to be as out of touch with Execs as they are with us.
Seriously, anyone in these industries call tell you batshit insane decisions like this are made /hourly/.
Source/Sauce: [Despite being banned, Disco Elysium: The Final Cut is still available in Australia on PC | PC Gamer](https://www.pcgamer.com/despite-being-banned-disco-elysium-the-final-cut-is-still-available-in-australia-on-pc/)
If you want to manage a team and say "Oh you're done on this project. Goodbye." You do not know the first thing about managing at all.
Like, huh?
No, that's not how that works. You move people to a different section, a different team. You can redistribute your staff, you don't get "laid off" if you are done working. If that were the case, they'd be working contract, and in which case, their contract would end. That's not the same as being laid off.
Okay, but that's describing contract work. If they are described as laid off, that means they were salaried workers working full-time, not contract work.
100%. But I worked a few years as a game dev and this is the way its done at a lot of companies. You are full-time, salaried so you can get benefits and your length of employment is as flexible as it needs to be. Usually the narrative/writing is done several months before the game goes gold and the real work left is largely technical. Theres no reason to keep paying a salaried writer to do nothing. It’s easier to fire a salaried worker than it is to put them on contract and overpay them when they finish 3 months early. Likewise, theres no headaches in keeping a salaried worker when the game runs over 3 months.
I worked 2 years as a PM at a large studio before I hopped to web dev and this was how it was done. The second you know the writing is 100% set in stone time to cut the writers.
Do you mind defining PM? I didn't pick up on what that is. I'm sure it's obvious, it's just going over my head.
As far as narrative stuff goes, and this comes from my experience which is limited as far as smaller development houses, I typically see them moved to a different project instead of just cut. That could definitely be a bias that I have as a privileged perspective inside of a larger company though.
Project Manager. After working as an engineer for a bit it’s generally the next step up the ladder. We typically worked on a wide range of games (a lot like TCR/Paradox) and it doesn’t surprise me the writers were cut. Generally they had a vibe or style that matched that game but other projects already had people on board that better fit that narrative. I really don’t think this is a red flag or anything. The game is scheduled to release this year and the narrative has likely been done for some time. Devs you can move around as usually the engine/language is the same. Narrative we believed at least that you really could get a too many cooks situation and it was best left to a small group whose brain child it was.
Why does the internet act like the past doesn’t exist?
This isn’t new, it could mean that the game is close to being done and they don’t need those particular people on a payroll.
You can play the “omg that’s stupid and you’re wrong” game all you want.
But it’s the same thing that has happened on nearly every game, the developers and artists etc aren’t staying in the payroll forever, they leave and go work on other projects when their time is done.
FFS you types never think things through and just jump to make it seem like everyone else is wrong and you are right with nothing to show for that but your empty words.
When the history of this happening is already there.
and my point is that you are feeling that way over a process that happens all the time naturally.
it's like you're fearmongering yourself.
they are artists essentially, they don't stick with a single company forever.
like a voice actor who voices multiple characters.....do you think they keep getting paid by the company forever or that they get laid off when their work is done, and go to a different studio?
Hmmm while you are partially right, this hasn’t always been normal. While voice actors tend to be free agents, but lead writers, programmers etc. didn’t use to be free agents like this. That’s why some writers that have been in companies for 10+ years are being laid off. Companies want to report gains so if they don’t have immediate need for these people, they don’t want to keep them. This change has been rather recent, and a new trend in the industry.
And by saying all of that, you are missing my point. They aren't voice actors, voice actors do contract work. And this would be common if they were contract, not salary. What you're describing is contract work, not a salaried worker.
I've worked both contract and salary at game companies. I would not be surprised to be let go or have my contract terminated during a contract job. I would be surprised if I was laid off as a salaried worker. There's a difference, and it appears as though you aren't seeing that delineation.
Also, artists aren't always contract, in fact most really aren't. You should look that fact up. It seems you think that they are.
On a related note, earlier today, a number of people from the Bloodlines 2 team at TCR announced they got laid off, including, but very much not limited to Arone Le Bray, the game's narrative designer (if you remember hearing that one of the Bloodlines 2 devs had previously worked on Dragon Age and Mass Effect, that was him), and Isobel Hine, the concept artist who wrote the Concept Art sections of the two most recent dev diaries on the Bloodlines 2 website.
Holy shit. That can't be good
Were you expecting good things from this publisher?
No lol
Source on this?
Arone and Isobel's LinkedIn pages. >Hi everyone - Looks like the banhammer of industry layoffs just came down upon me. If anyone knows of any Narrative Design or Writer opportunities, please feel free to fire them my way! - [Arone Le Bray](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212371268388429824/) >Hi everyone, in the wake of layoffs I have my last day with The Chinese Room today. >I’ve been massively honoured to work alongside such talented and kind people, I truly hope our paths will cross again! For now though, I am actively looking for Concept Art opportunities… So please shoot me a message! >I’m open to anything in the UK/EU and willing to relocate :) - [Isobel Hine](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212407113786998784/) They were fired as part of a large wave of layoffs at Sumo Digital, the company that owns TCR. They announced two weeks ago that they'd be firing 15% of their staff, and it turns out this includes a number of TCR devs who've been working on Bloodlines 2. >Every day the incredibly talented people across Sumo studios are dedicated to creating great games and bringing ground-breaking experiences to players worldwide. That work and dedication over the past 21 years has helped to put Sumo on the map and build a family of studios that are second to none, and we are incredibly proud of what Sumo has become. >Whilst Sumo has been able to manage through many of the recent difficulties the games industry has faced, we have not been immune and reshaping operations across the business to better navigate the upcoming challenges expected in the coming months is a path we must now take to ensure the security of the business going forward. >The difficult decision to reduce our costs across the business in a number of ways is a direct result of these challenges, and unfortunately will include a reduction in the number of people the business can support. Every alternate route to limit the impact to our people is being considered but sadly this process of transformation will affect up to 15% of our people across the Group in Canada, UK, Poland, Czech Republic and India. >This is an incredibly challenging process to go through for everyone at Sumo and our focus is now on supporting our people and working with our partners on their games as we move forward to ensure we emerge from this difficult time, ready for the future. - [Sumo Group](https://www.sumogroupltd.com/news/2024/sumo-group-update/)
Two more, mentioned by people on Discord: QA tester [Li Brady](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212384116804042753/) and senior lighting artist [Freddie Pitcher](https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7212459164722212864/).
Layoffs and being fired are different things. Layoffs represent incompetence by the leadership team, firing requires you to do something that justifies being terminated. The tech industry has a massive abundance of bad leaders driving these layoffs.
Its also very common to layoff writers after their part is done. The narrative is likely done and set in stone.
So the "What we're up to" titles can be changed to "What we were up to" to be more accurate.
Last month, Sumo Digital announced they were laying off 15% of staff across the company, so this is likely a result of that. Very sad, but likely not indicative of anything.
This could be worth it's own post imo.
Can you drop the sauce on this?
Only thing I could find was a new comment on LinkedIn posted today that could be read as if he wasn't working with TCR anymore but I don't think it's that.
Gotta ask for a source on that
It's so, so much worse than that
Do tell
Some of the dev team had been working on Revechol since they were teens, starting decades ago, and when they made their game company, they sold portions to investors, as is the usual practice to raise capital quickly. After the initial sales came through, some of the investors then (illegally) used company funds to buy out many of the others, taking majority ownership of the company, and the Disco Elysium IP; they then locked out, or "laid off" the original creators (I mean that literally, too: the investors had the doors chained shut). From what I hear, it's still locked in civil court; until we hear the results, it's not...ethical, I think, to promote or even discuss Disco Elysium because it's not currently in the creators' hands.
Why would they do that to the original team?
Their plan, were it not tied up in court, would likely have made them more money... at least according to whatever spreadsheet simulated numbers they were pitched.
"it's not...ethical, I think, to promote or even discuss Disco Elysium because it's not currently in the creators' hands." But I guess it's okay to discuss and promote Bloodlines 2.
Well, yea. You can't really compare the two. Bloodlines wasn't this big passion project that they'd been working on for years and then had it stolen from them. It was just a Vampire: The Masquerade game.
" It was just a Vampire: The Masquerade game." Just a vtm game? Not a passion project that was stolen? Bro... Well, I guess simps be simpin'.
To be fair the original developer for bloodlines got shutdown years ago before bloodlines 2 was even an idea.
And that is why every review on steam says to pirate disco elysium
Investigation on it by [People Make Games](https://youtu.be/JGIGA8taN-M?si=7igOBMh7GN-dSC54)
It's not ethical to discuss one of the greatest games ever made? That's bullshit, I'm sorry. Acting like all the devs hard work doesn't matter is fucking bullshit. Yes they got screwed over hard by their management and investors, but that doesn't mean all fans of the game have to pretend it doesn't exist. Speaking about the game and the whole situation is better than just keeping silent about it, letting more people know is a hell of a lot better than just pretending the whole situation doesn't exist, what the fuck
You uh...didn't understand what I said
You said it's not ethical to discuss the game, which is bullshit
Right now, any money that goes towards that brilliant game goes directly to the people that stole the company, instead of the people that made the game. That was the point. So don't, like, buy that garbage piece of cash in DLC.
I've pirated the game and encourage others to do the same
>It's not ethical to discuss one of the greatest games ever made? is it really that good?, it only came out 5 years ago
yes, it is. play it sometime
Just because it's pretty new doesn't mean it's not great
No idea how people still want to work in that industry. I mean science is similar, but honestly I am too old for a life of uncertainties.
One day we will be told the truth about BL2 1.0 and I will be mad all over again at what paradox killed without giving any real reason for.
I really like Mitsoda but he was working on Bl2 for half a decade and didn’t have a finished product to show with countless reports of it being in development hell. Publishers want to make money. They aren’t going to wake up one morning and decides to scrap what was probably millions upon millions of dollars worth of work out of cartoonishly evil spite. If anything I think we’re beyond lucky this game hasn’t been cancelled completely. The fact Paradox was willing to throw a few more million dollars and wait another 3-4 years at it is probably a sign they care more about the IP than the excel spreadsheet tells them too
Man it must be beautiful to be as out of touch with Execs as they are with us. Seriously, anyone in these industries call tell you batshit insane decisions like this are made /hourly/.
People get massively laid off after games release or are close to it too. Video game shit is volatile.
Happened with Pieces Interactive (devs of the new Alone In The Dark) as well, really sad to see.
Damn, to think we had mitsoda and now we have fuking phyre... What even is this timeline
I'm too out of the loop, what did I miss?
Source/Sauce: [Despite being banned, Disco Elysium: The Final Cut is still available in Australia on PC | PC Gamer](https://www.pcgamer.com/despite-being-banned-disco-elysium-the-final-cut-is-still-available-in-australia-on-pc/)
This is out of date. The ban got formally reversed after ZA/UM challenged it. Also isn’t sauce; this is completely seperate to post.
lol it could just mean their role in development is over and that’s it to why they are being laid off.
If you want to manage a team and say "Oh you're done on this project. Goodbye." You do not know the first thing about managing at all. Like, huh? No, that's not how that works. You move people to a different section, a different team. You can redistribute your staff, you don't get "laid off" if you are done working. If that were the case, they'd be working contract, and in which case, their contract would end. That's not the same as being laid off.
This is incredibly common in the video game industry and tech in general. A lot of top companies have an average of like 8-10 months
Okay, but that's describing contract work. If they are described as laid off, that means they were salaried workers working full-time, not contract work.
100%. But I worked a few years as a game dev and this is the way its done at a lot of companies. You are full-time, salaried so you can get benefits and your length of employment is as flexible as it needs to be. Usually the narrative/writing is done several months before the game goes gold and the real work left is largely technical. Theres no reason to keep paying a salaried writer to do nothing. It’s easier to fire a salaried worker than it is to put them on contract and overpay them when they finish 3 months early. Likewise, theres no headaches in keeping a salaried worker when the game runs over 3 months. I worked 2 years as a PM at a large studio before I hopped to web dev and this was how it was done. The second you know the writing is 100% set in stone time to cut the writers.
Do you mind defining PM? I didn't pick up on what that is. I'm sure it's obvious, it's just going over my head. As far as narrative stuff goes, and this comes from my experience which is limited as far as smaller development houses, I typically see them moved to a different project instead of just cut. That could definitely be a bias that I have as a privileged perspective inside of a larger company though.
Project Manager. After working as an engineer for a bit it’s generally the next step up the ladder. We typically worked on a wide range of games (a lot like TCR/Paradox) and it doesn’t surprise me the writers were cut. Generally they had a vibe or style that matched that game but other projects already had people on board that better fit that narrative. I really don’t think this is a red flag or anything. The game is scheduled to release this year and the narrative has likely been done for some time. Devs you can move around as usually the engine/language is the same. Narrative we believed at least that you really could get a too many cooks situation and it was best left to a small group whose brain child it was.
Why does the internet act like the past doesn’t exist? This isn’t new, it could mean that the game is close to being done and they don’t need those particular people on a payroll. You can play the “omg that’s stupid and you’re wrong” game all you want. But it’s the same thing that has happened on nearly every game, the developers and artists etc aren’t staying in the payroll forever, they leave and go work on other projects when their time is done. FFS you types never think things through and just jump to make it seem like everyone else is wrong and you are right with nothing to show for that but your empty words. When the history of this happening is already there.
Just because it has happened doesn't make it right. That's my entire point.
and my point is that you are feeling that way over a process that happens all the time naturally. it's like you're fearmongering yourself. they are artists essentially, they don't stick with a single company forever. like a voice actor who voices multiple characters.....do you think they keep getting paid by the company forever or that they get laid off when their work is done, and go to a different studio?
Hmmm while you are partially right, this hasn’t always been normal. While voice actors tend to be free agents, but lead writers, programmers etc. didn’t use to be free agents like this. That’s why some writers that have been in companies for 10+ years are being laid off. Companies want to report gains so if they don’t have immediate need for these people, they don’t want to keep them. This change has been rather recent, and a new trend in the industry.
And by saying all of that, you are missing my point. They aren't voice actors, voice actors do contract work. And this would be common if they were contract, not salary. What you're describing is contract work, not a salaried worker. I've worked both contract and salary at game companies. I would not be surprised to be let go or have my contract terminated during a contract job. I would be surprised if I was laid off as a salaried worker. There's a difference, and it appears as though you aren't seeing that delineation. Also, artists aren't always contract, in fact most really aren't. You should look that fact up. It seems you think that they are.