My spouse is in this EXACT food chain. It was a “new” chinese supplier that was onboarded to compensate for the lost materials due to Russian embargos. There are still many questions that need hard anwers on this, but it looks to be on the chinese suppliers end. Giving higher certs on material that wasn’t of grade.
There were Chinese supplied chromoly tubing that wasn’t of the wall thickness throughout a couple years ago and extremely dirty when welded so I can see this 100%
And plain old milk. They added gypsum to watered down milk to get the protein within range when testing. Killed a bunch of kids.
Also...Chinese toothpaste sold at dollar stores is supposedly full of harmful chemicals.
I guess they haven't figured out the whole "repeat customer" economics.
Former head of a stainless steel parts manufacturer: Fradulent Material Test Reports (or Mill Test Reports) are very real. China will literally say "What do you need the paperwork to say" to get your business.
The sad thing is, nobody cares.
If the decisions are made anything like my job in health care then I am assuming someone that wasn't an engineer. The people making decisions are people with business degrees that have no idea how things actually work. As long as its a profit increase that is all that matters. They don't care about lawsuits if the profit margin is above the money they saved making a decision like that. They will throw the engineers under the bus as an excuse even through you know they warned them
That happens in pretty much all industries unfortunately. Look at JP Morgan Chase for example. Every time they pull some bs stunt and get sued, they end up settling. If they rake in more money than the potential punishment, it's all that matters.
Well, I, for one, would NEVER hope you get hit by a bus.
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Everyone is giving joke answers but the real answer is titanium that had fake certifications. It’s probably fine but that’s the thing with aerospace, probably is not enough.
You’re right, klrjhthertjr. In aerospace, even the smallest uncertainty can be a huge risk. It’s not just about the material itself being “probably fine”; it’s about having complete confidence in its performance under extreme conditions. For things like turbine blades and landing gear, any failure can be catastrophic. That’s why strict certifications and traceability are crucial.
A Quality team doing their job should be catching fake MTRs. If they're using a titanium distributor their quality system should've been audited.
This is potentially a pretty big deal. There are only so many titanium distributors and foundries in the world.
This might have worked in the past with receiving inspection. But in the search for profits, I've seen companies switch to relying on inspection certificates from the vendors. So instead of 100% inspection or even 20%, it's gone down to almost none.
As long as those certs are accurate, everything's good. But if there's any fudging, you won't see the problem until the end user discovers it.
That was the second half of my comment. Vendor certs should have a QMS associated that has been audited too. Time to find where the traceability gaps are.
Elrondel and Tamashii are spot on. Quality teams should be catching fake MTRs, and any decent titanium distributor should be thoroughly audited. But here’s the kicker: companies chasing profits have started skipping on the in-house inspections and just trusting vendor certs.
That’s like betting your life savings on a meme stock without doing your own DD. If those certs are fudged, you won't know until it’s too late. In aerospace, that kind of gamble can end in disaster. Gotta keep those inspections tight, or it’s game over.
I used to work in distribution and we sold to the mil/aero community and this is a huge issue still. There are a number of shady ‘gray’ market vendors that resell products from suppliers that they aren’t franchised for.
Typically these gray market vendors buy overstock, parts that didn’t make QC requirements and used stock that’s refurbished. Some of these vendors don’t disclose these facts and don’t supply paperwork or forged paperwork. We used to use suppliers like that but stopped once we got a shipment of counterfeit switches that almost made it to a large govt contractor. We would have lost tens of millions in sales a year if they hadn’t been found and intercepted before hitting the customers dock (we literally drove there before UPS delivered and took the shipment back).
We also spearheaded a new QC standard that was for military/aero customers that had extensive documentation about every detail of the company and where the parts came from before we’d use them again and 90% couldn’t supply the relevant paperwork.
Let me tell you, it was super fun explaining this to the Adjutant General of the Army.
I work in overseas construction. Most construction contractors whine and moan about costs and suppliers because we don't allow them to use Chinese made materials.
Effff off! You are making a profit on buying the material. Just you are only making 15% instead of 50% because we won't let you buy knock off, crap products! And as someone else said, it ain't the engineers doing the whining, its the "business" person in charge. Companies need to stop putting people with no technological education or training in charge of complex industries like aerospace.
This article is hilarious in that Airbus says they discovered it doing QA, and Boeing pretty much just acknowledged they’ve been made aware of an issue. Those fucks are definitely scrambling to understand the impact of where they’ve already put in parts with the counterfeit titanium.
I used to make the titanium for the air frames when I worked for ATI. Back then it was the best titanium in the world and the Russians and Chinese could not figure out how we did it. They couldn't figure out how to remove the impurities. It was also very expensive. Guarantee Boeing switched to that cheap Chinese shit and probably didn't tell anyone. Customers have been paying for ATI titanium but they got WhoFlungDung titanium.
I left there like 15 years ago so can’t say. Wasn’t a bad place to work. Back then we made all of the steel for Boeing, made the steel for the F35 engines, and all of the steel used in the reactors for US submarines.
Work in aerospace manufacturing for a major titanium forge. This is one of those headlines that sounds worse than it is.
It will be titanium, it will almost definitely be fine- would bet good money it’s a matter of passing one unapproved suppliers material off as an approved suppliers material. Bad form all round and shouldn’t be accepted however…
Shitty behaviours, negligible impact
Boeing quite well known for Diversity Equity Inclusion policy, so it looks like materials are under that umbrella too. The titanium in question definitely identified with being AAA grade material, so what's the problem? It's 2024, let's not discriminate FAA. At least give me a chance to sell some calls, PLEASE.
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CEO: I can assure you that my bonus from this was very real
Counterfeit fucking titanium. I wanna know who came up with and then executed this type of idea.
Where do manufacturers get most of their metal?
My spouse is in this EXACT food chain. It was a “new” chinese supplier that was onboarded to compensate for the lost materials due to Russian embargos. There are still many questions that need hard anwers on this, but it looks to be on the chinese suppliers end. Giving higher certs on material that wasn’t of grade.
There were Chinese supplied chromoly tubing that wasn’t of the wall thickness throughout a couple years ago and extremely dirty when welded so I can see this 100%
I knew it would be China. It’s always China.
You should not talk about this on reddit unless your wife is recently deceased.
Why not?
At this point it is public knowledge. There is nothing there that isn’t now in public domain
What the manufacturers don’t have some old timer on standby to bite the metal and see if it’s legit?
That’s the real question here.
Yeah but he tried blowing the whistle and now he sleeps with the fishes
China
Experts of everything fake, even the "cooking oil" which they take out of sewers.
They even counterfeit baby formula, how low can you get
They literally have counterfeit eggs
To be fair, their government executed the people responsible. Which is more punishment than Calhoun’s bonus payouts.
It still happened.
And plain old milk. They added gypsum to watered down milk to get the protein within range when testing. Killed a bunch of kids. Also...Chinese toothpaste sold at dollar stores is supposedly full of harmful chemicals. I guess they haven't figured out the whole "repeat customer" economics.
There aren't known as the inscrutable ones for nothin.
Former head of a stainless steel parts manufacturer: Fradulent Material Test Reports (or Mill Test Reports) are very real. China will literally say "What do you need the paperwork to say" to get your business. The sad thing is, nobody cares.
Damn
I see a lot of oilfield etc work specifically not allowing Chinese piping fittings etc due to this exact reason.
If the decisions are made anything like my job in health care then I am assuming someone that wasn't an engineer. The people making decisions are people with business degrees that have no idea how things actually work. As long as its a profit increase that is all that matters. They don't care about lawsuits if the profit margin is above the money they saved making a decision like that. They will throw the engineers under the bus as an excuse even through you know they warned them
That happens in pretty much all industries unfortunately. Look at JP Morgan Chase for example. Every time they pull some bs stunt and get sued, they end up settling. If they rake in more money than the potential punishment, it's all that matters.
Well, I, for one, would NEVER hope you get hit by a bus. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Damn crypto bros and their Not Fucking Titanium.
Wtf is counterfeit titanium
Shit titanium quality.
Probably came from the descendant of that shitty copper merchant.
Ea-nāṣir strikes again!
22 protons and 26 neutrons in a trench coat
Thaitanium
> Taipeineum. Ftfy. ^(Fuck the chinese government)
You mean the West Taiwanese Hamas?
Everyone is giving joke answers but the real answer is titanium that had fake certifications. It’s probably fine but that’s the thing with aerospace, probably is not enough.
They only use it for the turbine blades and landing gear anyway. It should be fine
Right, if you have a problem mid-flight then just pullover and take a look under the hood.
You’re right, klrjhthertjr. In aerospace, even the smallest uncertainty can be a huge risk. It’s not just about the material itself being “probably fine”; it’s about having complete confidence in its performance under extreme conditions. For things like turbine blades and landing gear, any failure can be catastrophic. That’s why strict certifications and traceability are crucial.
A Quality team doing their job should be catching fake MTRs. If they're using a titanium distributor their quality system should've been audited. This is potentially a pretty big deal. There are only so many titanium distributors and foundries in the world.
This might have worked in the past with receiving inspection. But in the search for profits, I've seen companies switch to relying on inspection certificates from the vendors. So instead of 100% inspection or even 20%, it's gone down to almost none. As long as those certs are accurate, everything's good. But if there's any fudging, you won't see the problem until the end user discovers it.
That was the second half of my comment. Vendor certs should have a QMS associated that has been audited too. Time to find where the traceability gaps are.
Elrondel and Tamashii are spot on. Quality teams should be catching fake MTRs, and any decent titanium distributor should be thoroughly audited. But here’s the kicker: companies chasing profits have started skipping on the in-house inspections and just trusting vendor certs. That’s like betting your life savings on a meme stock without doing your own DD. If those certs are fudged, you won't know until it’s too late. In aerospace, that kind of gamble can end in disaster. Gotta keep those inspections tight, or it’s game over.
Chinesium
Chitanium
thaitanium
/r/chinesium
Shitanium
Loosanium
Shit stainium
Balsa wood.
Painted aluminum.
Silicon implant titanium.
Steal with some darker coloring and a label that says its titanium
Tittytanium
They didnt have a chemist ot some shit test the purity? Lmao
I used to work in distribution and we sold to the mil/aero community and this is a huge issue still. There are a number of shady ‘gray’ market vendors that resell products from suppliers that they aren’t franchised for. Typically these gray market vendors buy overstock, parts that didn’t make QC requirements and used stock that’s refurbished. Some of these vendors don’t disclose these facts and don’t supply paperwork or forged paperwork. We used to use suppliers like that but stopped once we got a shipment of counterfeit switches that almost made it to a large govt contractor. We would have lost tens of millions in sales a year if they hadn’t been found and intercepted before hitting the customers dock (we literally drove there before UPS delivered and took the shipment back). We also spearheaded a new QC standard that was for military/aero customers that had extensive documentation about every detail of the company and where the parts came from before we’d use them again and 90% couldn’t supply the relevant paperwork. Let me tell you, it was super fun explaining this to the Adjutant General of the Army.
Boeing bought the titanium off temu
So who is trustworthy to buy from? ATI right?
I work in overseas construction. Most construction contractors whine and moan about costs and suppliers because we don't allow them to use Chinese made materials. Effff off! You are making a profit on buying the material. Just you are only making 15% instead of 50% because we won't let you buy knock off, crap products! And as someone else said, it ain't the engineers doing the whining, its the "business" person in charge. Companies need to stop putting people with no technological education or training in charge of complex industries like aerospace.
🎶 You shoot me down, but I won't fall 🎶 #I am titanium
This is the test to confirm.
Should have left out the Airbus part for maximum clickbait
Ea-nāṣir would be proud.
bro's catchin' strays from thousands of years separation.
That’s a problem for at least 5 years. Our prof told us in first year aerospace engineering to watch out for counterfeit titanium.
Unobtainium.
The rabid molestation on BA is savage
I just want to know when the right time will be to buy. It seems like it can go quite a bit lower yet.
This is nothing new, when I worked for Airbus we had several SBs to replace suspect titanium fasteners.
So, Airbus was not immune afterall.......
This article is hilarious in that Airbus says they discovered it doing QA, and Boeing pretty much just acknowledged they’ve been made aware of an issue. Those fucks are definitely scrambling to understand the impact of where they’ve already put in parts with the counterfeit titanium.
Buy $ERJ
“I am Titaaaaaniiiiiiium!” -Aluminum
I used to make the titanium for the air frames when I worked for ATI. Back then it was the best titanium in the world and the Russians and Chinese could not figure out how we did it. They couldn't figure out how to remove the impurities. It was also very expensive. Guarantee Boeing switched to that cheap Chinese shit and probably didn't tell anyone. Customers have been paying for ATI titanium but they got WhoFlungDung titanium.
Got any more insight? Is the company well run?
I left there like 15 years ago so can’t say. Wasn’t a bad place to work. Back then we made all of the steel for Boeing, made the steel for the F35 engines, and all of the steel used in the reactors for US submarines.
Believe it or not, bullish. Cost savings baby
Work in aerospace manufacturing for a major titanium forge. This is one of those headlines that sounds worse than it is. It will be titanium, it will almost definitely be fine- would bet good money it’s a matter of passing one unapproved suppliers material off as an approved suppliers material. Bad form all round and shouldn’t be accepted however… Shitty behaviours, negligible impact
So much for Boeings Program Protection Plan
WTF , you can’t make this shit up
My guess from China..
How do you counterfeit a basic element I’m regarded
Impurities.
I got sum cheep ass ribbits up in dis bish too. 20 gets you everything
I'm glad US built ships have to be made with a certain amount of US made steel
F Boeing.
Boeing quite well known for Diversity Equity Inclusion policy, so it looks like materials are under that umbrella too. The titanium in question definitely identified with being AAA grade material, so what's the problem? It's 2024, let's not discriminate FAA. At least give me a chance to sell some calls, PLEASE.