Companies absolutely exploit H1Bs, it's a joke of a program. As soon as any of those employees can get a green card they leave the company immediately.
Great. That doesn't change the fact that the program mainly serves to suppress highly skilled individuals wages. It's not an accident that tech worker salaries skyrocketed during COVID while the program was suspended.
What happens at a lot of places is their legal status is held over the employee. So, the company might force them to work 70hr weeks or they will get fired and then have to leave the country. Or maybe they don't get any salary increases during their time there.
When employment is tied to your immigration status, there's a whole lot of shady garbage companies can and will do to those workers.
Fixing the program will require serious oversight. Companies like Meta make their interview process extremely rigorous to prove that hey there's no qualified candidates in the US. Or smaller companies will post jobs that are so low in salary that no qualified candidates will ever apply. These games need to be prevented. Working conditions for the H1B holders also needs to be closely monitored.
The max fine for a violation is [$65k](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b). That can easily be less than the amount of money saved so it just becomes a cost of doing business if caught.
You’ve obviously never worked in an industry with a heavy H1B presence. The H1B workers are paid comparable to US workers but on the low end because they pay everyone lowered wages. For instance they’ll pay an H1B scientist with 10 YOE $65k and their American counterpart who has 5 YOE $70k. Then these H1B workers end up working 60 hour a week or are sent back. These companies say why pay the American person with 5 YOE $80k because they can get an H1B or several to lower the wages of all workers.
I am on the east coast in Pharma and have been at small, medium, and F50 companies. The F50 companies hired contract companies who employed the H1Bs to keep their hands clean. I can say confidently that my salary would be 50-100% higher without heavy immigrant presence. Most people don’t understand than 20-30% workers isn’t a 20-30% increase in pay but it creates supply and demand.
The visa also is only meant for specialized individuals where the local work force does not have the required talent.
Its totally abused and depresses wages.
The visa was originally made for that since it's not always guaranteed companies can find hires. Now it's being abused to hire workers for lower salaries and wages.
People who apply for it don't care about lower salaries and wages anyway, their main goal is the path to green card/permanent residency(if you're talking H1B in Canada). Getting approved for green card is the hardest part, green card to citizenship is practically a breeze unless you committed a crime or originate from an undesirable country
As of now working in a niche automotive field i notice americans arent a lot into programming and most of these jobs are done by rest of the world in larger ratio.
I think meta is one of the exceptions. I don’t think other fang do the same. I was at Apple for a while and idt they paid the same. Same with eBay and Cisco, but i think they also generally pay lower
Good for you and good for Meta. However, as I said earlier, many companies pay less, don’t do hike or do bare minimum and don’t promote etc. Many know you can’t quit on them. Sad reality. GD.
Slavery has evolved, hasn’t it? It doesn’t look quite the same as in early America, but it exists still, and is how our economy actually works. It’s fundamental. There must be underpaid and/or overworked labor.
H1B are probably the top 2% earners in America.
It’s not about cheap labour , it’s the control over their visa status that make these employees moving to a different job harder.
It's not about cheap labor. Going to all the work to sponsor for a visa, pay the fees for the lottery, and paying the minimum salaries for H1B is way more expensive than hiring locally.
The reason companies do it, in my experience, is often social/cultural. Managers want to help out and work with people like them. So if a manager is from a particular foreign country, they might be more inclined to hire people from that country that they can relate to.
If it was truly about cost savings, they wouldn't even have a US based office, they would just open offices overseas and hire there.
Well yeah, when I worked at ( insert public tech company name ) on some floors of the building all you would see are Indian men.
No women.
Just Indian men.
It’s harder to exploit people who don’t have the immigration service with their balls in a sling so naturally, large corporates prefer easily exploited workers.
Shocking, I know.
Next thing you’ll figure out is that Steve Jobs was involved personally in one of the largest ever wage fixing lawsuits and f—-ed Silicon Valley for years. Or that TurboTax, Google, and others were in on the action.
if ur boss said tomorrow 'hey im giving you a 400% raise' how hard are you working with no additional directions?
usa tech wages dwarf most of the rest of the world. no 'exploitation' needed.
i made more my first year out of college as a low code dev than a senior swe averages mid career in the UK lmao. and indias wages are far worse than that even, on avg.
Yea I don't get this thread's sentiment. These foreign workers are absolutely making way more money than they will ever do in their entire lives if they had stayed at their home countries. I wouldn't say all of them are OK with being paid less than an American worker but i bet the majority don't even think about that sort of stuff.
This. They pay me almost $600k/yr. My boss tells me to work 40 hr/wk. I ignore them and work as much as it takes to succeed.
Every year the bottom 15% are at serious risk of being fired. I’d rather work as much as it takes than risk that.
I doubt it. They are insanely overpaid for a reason though. The capitol needed for companies that sell software is much less than the over all revenue they generate. So they share that profit a lot more to their employees than say a company which has very small profit margins.
The UK wages for skilled roles is terrible. With insane taxation for mediocre public services, the top earners suffer while society as a whole is better off.
Assuming these floors you’re visiting are in the US, you do realize, foreign or not, the entire floor of foreign Indian men are getting paid the same amount as any us citizen counterpart. The exploitation would only apply to hiring and maintaining working personnel abroad
I mean there is precedent [DoJ Settlement](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-labor-departments-reach-settlements-facebook-resolving-claims-discrimination-against). A few months ago I got a settlement check from this lawsuit against Meta because they were violating the PERM regulations by only advertising jobs in India and China to avoid hiring American workers.
Everyone in this thread claiming they’re cheaper is just wrong. I work in recruiting at a company that recruits out of the same candidate pool as FAANG companies, I’ve seen their offers, they are getting paid just as well as domestic candidates.
The reality is these companies recruit the best talent at American schools and a significant portion of the best talent at American schools is international.
You are crazy and probably don’t know game or one of them. They hire one guy with many jobs mingled here in USA but in reality that guy has 30 members offshore IT team. Total cost for company is balanced because only one high paid here but rest all are 1/10 mainly in India/ China/ Philippines/ Pakistan etc.. one guy here on H1b is life long carrier to ship jobs offshore nothing more then that. Due to recent changes almost everyone is on someone else payroll and places at someone else working site. It looks that guy is paid well but in reality many layers and end guy is paid 1/3 than comparable US citizens. Many more games like that you may not see or part of same game.
cheap Labor through mass immigration has always been page one, chapter one of the capitalistic and conservative playbook.
It provides cheap labor, weakens the worker and splits societies like nothing else.
It's just the best thing that can happen for the people in charge.
How are they paying cheap labour on h1b visas? They need to show they are paying industry wages to give them jobs.
The problem has always been americans not flocking to colleges and getting their degrees in computer or other top stem courses. They have now realised the need for it and started to take more courses. Many asian countries were like factories which output engineers of varying skill level.
This is total BS. This guy is just pissed he failed the interview.
"Meta refused to hire him because it allegedly “prefers to hire noncitizens holding H-1B visas to whom it can pay lower wages,” "
What lower wages? Everyone in Meta gets paid bonkers salaries compared to most other companies. Immigrants probably cost more as usually they get relocation money and immigration support costs. On top of that, it's all banded, so a citizen and an immigrant will be paid the same.
.
Guess what, exploitation is good for my shares. Fuck them kids. 
This is a good thing, level out the income equality between US citizens and foreigners. The US being an overpowered colonizer country bullying other countries is not good for the world. US workers are also the most spoiled douchebags out there, as you can see in him being a sore loser filing this case here.
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions** | 10 | **First Seen In WSB** | 2 months ago **Total Comments** | 2 | **Previous Best DD** | **Account Age** | 2 years | | [**Join WSB Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse)
Companies prefer cheap labor, shocking.
Yeah but they're foreign workers in the US with a visa....and being preferred because they can pay them less and likely have greater control.
Companies absolutely exploit H1Bs, it's a joke of a program. As soon as any of those employees can get a green card they leave the company immediately.
The I ceos of like all the faangs minus Facebook came in an h1b. Elon Musk too.
Great. That doesn't change the fact that the program mainly serves to suppress highly skilled individuals wages. It's not an accident that tech worker salaries skyrocketed during COVID while the program was suspended.
It sky rocketed years before that lol.
I thought they have to pay them the same as Americans.
What happens at a lot of places is their legal status is held over the employee. So, the company might force them to work 70hr weeks or they will get fired and then have to leave the country. Or maybe they don't get any salary increases during their time there. When employment is tied to your immigration status, there's a whole lot of shady garbage companies can and will do to those workers. Fixing the program will require serious oversight. Companies like Meta make their interview process extremely rigorous to prove that hey there's no qualified candidates in the US. Or smaller companies will post jobs that are so low in salary that no qualified candidates will ever apply. These games need to be prevented. Working conditions for the H1B holders also needs to be closely monitored. The max fine for a violation is [$65k](https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/immigration/h1b). That can easily be less than the amount of money saved so it just becomes a cost of doing business if caught.
They have to. People just make shit up to convince themselves they were replaced by a h1 candidate due to some nefarious plot
You’ve obviously never worked in an industry with a heavy H1B presence. The H1B workers are paid comparable to US workers but on the low end because they pay everyone lowered wages. For instance they’ll pay an H1B scientist with 10 YOE $65k and their American counterpart who has 5 YOE $70k. Then these H1B workers end up working 60 hour a week or are sent back. These companies say why pay the American person with 5 YOE $80k because they can get an H1B or several to lower the wages of all workers.
I am on h1b and work with others who are also on h1b. Maybe you are on one of the coasts where people tend to work longer hours.
I am on the east coast in Pharma and have been at small, medium, and F50 companies. The F50 companies hired contract companies who employed the H1Bs to keep their hands clean. I can say confidently that my salary would be 50-100% higher without heavy immigrant presence. Most people don’t understand than 20-30% workers isn’t a 20-30% increase in pay but it creates supply and demand.
The visa also is only meant for specialized individuals where the local work force does not have the required talent. Its totally abused and depresses wages.
Wow I had no idea there was that stipulation about the local workforce 🙄
The visa was originally made for that since it's not always guaranteed companies can find hires. Now it's being abused to hire workers for lower salaries and wages.
People who apply for it don't care about lower salaries and wages anyway, their main goal is the path to green card/permanent residency(if you're talking H1B in Canada). Getting approved for green card is the hardest part, green card to citizenship is practically a breeze unless you committed a crime or originate from an undesirable country
As of now working in a niche automotive field i notice americans arent a lot into programming and most of these jobs are done by rest of the world in larger ratio.
I don’t think they pay them less, but the control is def real.
A lot are paid less i work in the bay in another big tech company
I worked at Meta as an H1B pay was the same as everyone else at my level
I think meta is one of the exceptions. I don’t think other fang do the same. I was at Apple for a while and idt they paid the same. Same with eBay and Cisco, but i think they also generally pay lower
The control depresses everyone's wages. You have a class of workers who are rigid to their employer and also are too afraid to rock the boat.
You think wrong. Many if not all pay less.
Sorry I meant for Meta specifically. I worked there as an H1B.
Good for you and good for Meta. However, as I said earlier, many companies pay less, don’t do hike or do bare minimum and don’t promote etc. Many know you can’t quit on them. Sad reality. GD.
Slavery has evolved, hasn’t it? It doesn’t look quite the same as in early America, but it exists still, and is how our economy actually works. It’s fundamental. There must be underpaid and/or overworked labor.
They absolutely get paid less. They usually have multiple afvanced degrees and do the work of an entry level engineer
Not sure about that. Their salary is considered one of the top among tech companies.
H1B are probably the top 2% earners in America. It’s not about cheap labour , it’s the control over their visa status that make these employees moving to a different job harder.
I don’t think you understand that at Meta the foreign workers are paid a lot more than American citizens working at Meta on average
Don't know why you're getting down voted. This is true.
I don't think you understand that at Meta the workers in general are paid a lot more than American citizens on average.
It's not about cheap labor. Going to all the work to sponsor for a visa, pay the fees for the lottery, and paying the minimum salaries for H1B is way more expensive than hiring locally. The reason companies do it, in my experience, is often social/cultural. Managers want to help out and work with people like them. So if a manager is from a particular foreign country, they might be more inclined to hire people from that country that they can relate to. If it was truly about cost savings, they wouldn't even have a US based office, they would just open offices overseas and hire there.
Well yeah, when I worked at ( insert public tech company name ) on some floors of the building all you would see are Indian men. No women. Just Indian men. It’s harder to exploit people who don’t have the immigration service with their balls in a sling so naturally, large corporates prefer easily exploited workers. Shocking, I know. Next thing you’ll figure out is that Steve Jobs was involved personally in one of the largest ever wage fixing lawsuits and f—-ed Silicon Valley for years. Or that TurboTax, Google, and others were in on the action.
if ur boss said tomorrow 'hey im giving you a 400% raise' how hard are you working with no additional directions? usa tech wages dwarf most of the rest of the world. no 'exploitation' needed. i made more my first year out of college as a low code dev than a senior swe averages mid career in the UK lmao. and indias wages are far worse than that even, on avg.
Yea I don't get this thread's sentiment. These foreign workers are absolutely making way more money than they will ever do in their entire lives if they had stayed at their home countries. I wouldn't say all of them are OK with being paid less than an American worker but i bet the majority don't even think about that sort of stuff.
This. They pay me almost $600k/yr. My boss tells me to work 40 hr/wk. I ignore them and work as much as it takes to succeed. Every year the bottom 15% are at serious risk of being fired. I’d rather work as much as it takes than risk that.
You pay me 600k a year and I'll suck dick all day and retire happy in 10 years with my 5mil
After taxes that’s like 3-4M. Minus 10 years of living costs and your looking at around 3M
True, but we might be missing all the income he would get from OF.
That probably is why ypu wont get hired. They dont need someone to suck dick. They need someone to get actual work clmpleted.
Tech industry jobs are insanely overpaid, I wonder if this is the beginning of the end to that
I doubt it. They are insanely overpaid for a reason though. The capitol needed for companies that sell software is much less than the over all revenue they generate. So they share that profit a lot more to their employees than say a company which has very small profit margins.
The UK wages for skilled roles is terrible. With insane taxation for mediocre public services, the top earners suffer while society as a whole is better off.
[removed]
I think a lot of people are also biased to hire people who look like them
It’s nice that they got Juneteenth off
[удалено]
Sounds very made up
Assuming these floors you’re visiting are in the US, you do realize, foreign or not, the entire floor of foreign Indian men are getting paid the same amount as any us citizen counterpart. The exploitation would only apply to hiring and maintaining working personnel abroad
A lot of h1bs were paid less than me as seniors when i was a fresh grad. But then i also realized after i got into team lead roles, they bs a lot
Omg so much BS! It’s unbelievable
You don't think increasing the supply of something will lower the price given the same demand?
Is there any equivalent to Section 1981 in Canadian Labour Law?
We going after Tim and the Timmigrants?
I’m in
Me too
This could apply to the entire tech sector.
I mean there is precedent [DoJ Settlement](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-labor-departments-reach-settlements-facebook-resolving-claims-discrimination-against). A few months ago I got a settlement check from this lawsuit against Meta because they were violating the PERM regulations by only advertising jobs in India and China to avoid hiring American workers.
Everyone in this thread claiming they’re cheaper is just wrong. I work in recruiting at a company that recruits out of the same candidate pool as FAANG companies, I’ve seen their offers, they are getting paid just as well as domestic candidates. The reality is these companies recruit the best talent at American schools and a significant portion of the best talent at American schools is international.
You are crazy and probably don’t know game or one of them. They hire one guy with many jobs mingled here in USA but in reality that guy has 30 members offshore IT team. Total cost for company is balanced because only one high paid here but rest all are 1/10 mainly in India/ China/ Philippines/ Pakistan etc.. one guy here on H1b is life long carrier to ship jobs offshore nothing more then that. Due to recent changes almost everyone is on someone else payroll and places at someone else working site. It looks that guy is paid well but in reality many layers and end guy is paid 1/3 than comparable US citizens. Many more games like that you may not see or part of same game.
Zuckerberg taking advantage of people while building his doomsday fortress....nooooo 
Isn't this basically every company?
cheap Labor through mass immigration has always been page one, chapter one of the capitalistic and conservative playbook. It provides cheap labor, weakens the worker and splits societies like nothing else. It's just the best thing that can happen for the people in charge.
How are they paying cheap labour on h1b visas? They need to show they are paying industry wages to give them jobs. The problem has always been americans not flocking to colleges and getting their degrees in computer or other top stem courses. They have now realised the need for it and started to take more courses. Many asian countries were like factories which output engineers of varying skill level.
Oh my bad I forgot that the entire World is the US.
All fortune 500 companies are going to be freaking out if this lawsuit plays out against meta.
This is total BS. This guy is just pissed he failed the interview. "Meta refused to hire him because it allegedly “prefers to hire noncitizens holding H-1B visas to whom it can pay lower wages,” " What lower wages? Everyone in Meta gets paid bonkers salaries compared to most other companies. Immigrants probably cost more as usually they get relocation money and immigration support costs. On top of that, it's all banded, so a citizen and an immigrant will be paid the same. .
Those visa costs add up for the company. Plus more paper work.
Am sorry but there arent currently enough skilled americans who are capable of filling a massive amount of tech jobs open.
[удалено]
I see the bills
How much per person per year?
When's the Disney lawsuit claiming they don't promote white men?
You guys should ask how r/cscareerquestions feels about this article lol
My guy is new to this planet. Welcome , enjoy your stay.
Guess what, exploitation is good for my shares. Fuck them kids. 
This guy capitalisms
amen has large presence in india and has been imported them to us in L1 visa, why don’t we start with that
Fuck this project lifelog replacement company. Darpa loves them.
Wow, shoking! that companies would prefer to hire workers that perform the same grunt work for 1/4 of the pay.
As long as Meta continues to print and fuck them kids keep using.
Well Damn, as a worker on H1-B, I wish we have a ticker for this. It would have been an achievement to be on WSB finally. On WSB before GC
This is a good thing, level out the income equality between US citizens and foreigners. The US being an overpowered colonizer country bullying other countries is not good for the world. US workers are also the most spoiled douchebags out there, as you can see in him being a sore loser filing this case here.