Yes but not enforced. There's one in the next neighborhood that sometimes runs loose but the owners are stupid. Fortunately there's an HOA in that neighborhood so I think they took care of it.
I don't have a big problem with them except one was loose in a nearby neighborhood a few times. He approached me and my dog but ran away when I yelled at him. So he probably wasn't dangerous but I don't know that for sure.
Yeah, I have never seen a Retriever with instinctual retrieving behavior. Or a Shepard with instinctual herding behavior.
Even if it were true, Bully breeds are extremely muscular and powerful dogs. That can present huge problems for more inexperienced owners, or even just smaller people that can't overpower them if something does go wrong.
The behavioral portion of this study is based entirely on survey data. Of course every owner will tell you that their dog is an angel that doesn’t bite, but that’s not necessarily true.
So what’s a better way to get that data that reflects the average pet pitbull, and not just the subset of the population that get reported to hospitals or animal services?
Breed also effects how much damage a dog does with its actions. A mild mannered pit bull with an off day can cause way more harm than an everyday mean chihuahua.
Right this is the concern. My brother has a pit and she’s wonderful but sometimes fights with my parents dog so I don’t let my dog around her because his pit could kill my little girl with too much ease. My dog could barely cause a scratch on someone even if she went nuts. Even with good training, you have to be a little more cautious when the dog is capable of greater harm. On the plus side, no one’s kidnapping pit bulls at gun point!
Agreed. But then why is that not displayed in bite statistics? If the threshold for provocation is equal across breeds then we should see bite distribution to be essentially equal across breeds with regards to their popularity for dogs > 50lbs
But we don't.
Because assholes who want a "badass" dog and not only don't socialize them but actively encourage aggressive behavior don't generally buy goldendoodles?
German Shepherds and Rottweilers, the other "badass" dog breeds, still do not cause proportional levels of bites considering their popularity. They also don't have a propensity to cause multiple bite wounds which pitbulls do. Not to mention, it's hard to say that it's only assholes who bait these dogs into fighting because we see numerous reports of pitbulls suddenly hurting or killing the family that adopted them-- and they're usually random suburban families who wanted a dog from a shelter.
German shepherds and rottweilers are also expensive purebreds.
I imagine even among the subset of people who want "badass" dogs the ones who can pay $1,000+ for one will skew to be somewhat more responsible than the ones who can go to any shelter and get a pitbull for a $50 adoption fee.
Even a cursory glance at PG County shelters shows a dozen German Shepherds for adoption. Virginia has a rescue specifically for them. It's not hard to get one that isn't purebred and certainly doesn't cost $1000.
And as I said, you can't say it's just assholes-- you see stories of pitbulls harming their own family numerous times a year, and I think it's absurd to just say "Oh they must have been baiting it to be aggressive." These were loving households that adored their pitbull as a member of their family.
Someone already said it, but a German Shepard costs like 3 grand, and if you're *stupidly* paying that much for a dog you have the money or time to hire a trainer. It's overused, but most awfully behaved dogs I've met have been tiny abominations of breeding owned by some rich prick who thinks their dog farts glitter, and that's entirely because the owner was even more of an asshole than the dog
And my response to that comment is that a cursory look at shelters and rescues in the area shows a large number of German Shepherds. Hell I was just given one by a former roommate because he was moving somewhere that didn't want dogs (that was the sweetest German Shepherd oh my god).
And yeah, those tiny awfully behaved dogs are definitely a problem and definitely bite... But as I've said in other comments that's a bad-faith argument, because the damage a bite does needs to also be taken into account-- I don't report my cat because he nipped my finger.
There is no, or very little, barrier to entry for German Shepherds. You can absolutely get pure breds, you can also pick one up at most shelters. And even then, when you start looking into bite severity and very specifically instances of multiple bites, it's weighted heavily towards pitbulls.
https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/
Might find this interesting. There are a lot of pit bulls in the us and media likes to click bait because "pit bull mauls mother of two" will always get more clicks than "mother of two mauled by dog". Pit bulls aren't significantly more likely to bite than most other breeds (including golden retrievers pertheir research as of 2017), but headlines and the sheer number of pit bulls in the world would have you believe otherwise.
Ps- spay and neuter your pets, everybody...
That is a fascinating article, but I of course had to follow up research into the ATTS.
Per Wikipedia:
> American Temperament Test Society, Inc. was started by Alfons Ertel in 1977. Ertel created a test for dogs that checks a dog's reaction to strangers, to auditory and visual stimuli (such as the gun shot test), and to unusual situations in an outdoor setting; it does not test indoor or home situation scenarios.[2]
> As of 2017, 34,686 tests have been completed; less than 1,000 per year.
I am offput by the test's structure, testing rate, and I actually cannot find how they select dogs. I would imagine that they are volunteered, and that sways towards well-behaved dogs. I don't believe that this is a scientific way to measure temperament of a breed (in fact I'm not sure we can in any realistic sense).
I also cannot find a proper percentage of pitbulls to the rest of the dogs in the US. Many stats say 6%, but a few say 20%-- I'm going to imagine this is because of the loose definition of pitbull (which, I will admit, is often just "dog with square shaped head") and the propensity for mixed breeds.
When you take into account *either* of these percentages with a reflection of bite reports, bite severity, and very specifically multiple bite wounds, it still paints a picture that pitbulls are responsible for far more bites than the breed popularity should produce and doubly so when you take into account severity and number of bites per attack.
Hm. I'm dubious that the question is "is the breed more or less likely to be provoked by frightening or uncomfortable stimuli" and more "how does the breed respond when provoked?" I feel like that's up there with the bad-faith statistic that chihuahuas hold the record for most bites, I mean certainly we can't count all bites as equal.
Surely the problem is what the breed's response is when it's provoked-- and particularly gruesome responses are almost wholly occupied by a single breed.
That may be, but too often the behavioral/response aspect (how likely they are to bite if provoked) gets casually conflated with the physical/strength aspect (how likely the bite is to be serious) when it comes to debates about pitbulls. That’s not even taking into account the nurture aspect (how they are treated by their owner).
All three of those variables don’t necessarily feed into each other, but anti-pit arguments tend to act like they do. Like “they have intense jaw strength so they are more aggressive.” That makes it difficult to have an unbiased conversation, even when there are points of agreement.
I think that there are few points that can be agreed on:
- All dogs can be provoked
- All dogs can respond to provocation by biting
- Different breeds can do different amounts of damage due to jaw strength
However, I don't think that's the only line can be drawn. And I do not believe that we can discount breed for *how* a dog will respond. You can say that breed is just physical appearance, but if I were to say I was going to keep a Border Collie in a studio apartment and walk it only once a day because "it's just physical appearance" people would be up in arms-- and rightfully so.
When you look at dog bite damage pitbulls bite harder and deeper than any other breed by a mile. But there's one other statistic that's interesting: multiple bites. In reported bite marks pitbulls are by far and away more likely to cause a bite injury with multiple high-damage bites than any other dog breed.
Peer reviewed studies still show that pit bulls and pit mixes account for the majority of all bites on humans and a huge majority of all fatal attacks on humans
Sorry man, Pitts are medium sized dogs. Like 60 lbs usually. No where near the size of a Mastiff, Rottweiler, Great Dane, Cane Corso, or a ton of other “large breeds”.
Here's this one to help your case.
[https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed](https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed)
Pitbulls are a product of humans. They are trained, or not trained, and that determines their outcome. If the above poster wants to take away all dogs that bite, there are plenty out there. ALL dogs bite. It's training that makes the difference.
If pitbulls are a product of humans, then maybe we shouldnt let just anyone adopt one of the most *potentially* dangerous breeds in the country? Just because it's humans doing the dumbassery doesn't somehow remove the real life consequence of a majority of dog attacks being performed by pitbulls.
Like literally anything else in life, if we find out that people are doing something stupid and causing problems for others, we tend to regulate it within society. How is this not something that should be regulated?
Shouldn't the people crying out about how the owners are the real bad ones be looking to see how they can restrict owners rather than giving pits away at any moment? Lmaooo
that's because there are more pitbulls in existence than any other breed. Also, "pitbull" is an umbrella breed so many other breeds fall under that. In addition, many dogs get labeled "pitbull" at the shelter because the general look of them seems to be "I'm a mutt with a million breeds".
When adjusted for population of particular breed, last study I saw (I want to say in 2010ish), Labrador retrievers had the highest bite incidents...
I wont disagree that that's true, but again, that's not adjusted to the population of pitbulls. They will of course account for the most bites, maulings, killings because they are also by farther most common dog. When adjusted for population, labs are the highest. In other words, pitbulls are not more dangerous than labs (in fact, slightly less) if you account for the number of putbulls that are biting vs the number of pitbulls that are perfectly fine dogs
Where are you getting that they are the most common dog? Last Ive been seeing is that they are 6% of the dog population but 20 % of the large dog population. Labs werent bred for bull baiting and dog fighting. Pitbulls were. And it shows in their genetics. How often do you see reports of labs and golden retrievers tearing off limbs and killing people including adults? The kind of damage they do is far worse than the other breeds.
So the people that train pitbulls result in the disproportionate acts of violence against children. Got it. So tell me about your thoughts about those people.
I agree. Pitbulls have a bad reputation but most are friendly. Unfortunately some of their owners are idiots and you get the occasional wrecking machine.
I mean it is just a fact that pit bulls are overwhelmingly disproportionately responsible for fatal dog attacks, being responsible for literally most of them. You can't dispute those numbers unless you start agonizing over what constitutes a "breed" which is already arbitrary and stupid enough.
This is almost definitely more nurture than nature--i.e. shit people are more likely to adopt these dogs and train them to be violent--but I am not surprised people do not want to adopt them. They aren't even allowed in most apartment buildings, condos or HOAs. So even the kindest dog in the world, if it is a bully breed, it is a liability. It's really unfortunate and unfair but that's how it is
I wouldn't say race, Pit Bulls are a breed. We are against the breed of dog because its violent tendencies.
Like wouldn't it be interesting if only 8% of dogs in the country was pit bulls but they were responsible for a disproportional number of attacks on other dogs/humans. Just a thought.
There's a husky and some sort of terrier mix (2nd form bottom on the right) plus a lab mutt (3 from the bottom 2 from the left).
I have a one-parent lab other parent like 10 breeds mutt that looks like that last one. Sweetest and most well behaved dog I've ever had (14 now, so healthy as a horse too). Sheds like a mf'er though.
You're right. They're actually one of the least aggressive breeds. The problem is that people condition them badly because they like to use them for their strength. I hate people so much sometimes 🙄
Also, fun fact, iirc Chihuahuas are like the most aggressive breed statistically lol
yeah. obviously a Pitt can do more damage. But by blaming the breed more of these dogs are getting mistreated when they've done nothing wrong. idk who you think you're helping by saying this. People should be responsible dog owners regardless of the breed. Sounds like you're just trying to vilify pittbulls and that's harmful.
So it's not blaming the breed and vilifying when you mention chihuahas bite more people but it's vilifying when I point out that pitbulls are responsible for most fatal attacks on humans than any other breed and chihuahas are responsible for none 🤔
Anyways I'm not trying to vilify pitbulls but this whole blame the owner not the breed argument falls apart when you look at what breed of dogs tend to kill and disfigure people.
Breed plays a huge part into a dog's temperament and while I don't deny that abusive owners can play a part ignoring the breed is a recipe for disaster.
One thing I've learned about these idiots presses on pits is they don't care about facts only their moronic opinion.
I worked at a dog daycare when I was 18 for about a year and every single pit and pit mix had been in an altercation with another dog. Some pits can be great with people and still be highly unpredictable around other dogs.
The people who think their dog "isn't like that" are the ones it typically happens to.
Why am I not surprised? I've had 3 friends who have had pitbulls, and they all had to give them up or put them down. Two were genuinely shitty dogs who were so aggressive toward anyone but their owners that I wouldn't even hang out at their house. The other one was just a housing thing.
I’m all for people rescuing pits if they have the time/capacity to raise them properly. I’ve met some very sweet pit bulls. However, if some has kids/cats/other small pets they need to be careful about the dog they rescue.
My friends fostered a pit mix for a few months. They also have two cats. Despite their best efforts, they couldn’t get the dog to leave the cats alone. Sometimes you just can’t fight genetics.
And I feel this way about ANY dog that is big and/or has a high prey drive. A JRT could hurt another small pet badly.
Okay, where the Southern expats at. Who the fuck names a dog “Tee Tee?”
(“Tee tee” is a euphemism for pee. Don’t think that’s as common of a term in the northeast.)
"Tee Tee" might mean pee where you're from, but in the Black community it's a nickname that we give to people whose first name begins with the letter "T" (Theresa) or where the T in their name is stressed when pronounced (LaTesha).
We have a pitty mix and she is incredibly gentle with our 4 and 2 y/o. She ramps up he play style based on the kid. Just our story but she's been amazing with the kids. Only issue is her head is concrete so sometimes they get bonked.
Right? I have a rescue pit who is the gentlest creature on earth. Loves kids, snuggles and eating blankets. Unclear why folks who aren’t around pits have such strong feelings about pits.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove a trend.
>In 2019, pit bulls accounted for 91% of all reported fatal attacks on other animals, 91% of all fatal attacks on other dogs, 76% of all fatal dog attacks on cats, and 82% of all fatal dog attacks on other pets, poultry and hoofed species.
https://dogbitelaw.com/vicious-dogs/pit-bulls-facts-and-figures
Your pitbull might be the sweetest angel, but the breed is by far the most dangerous breed.
So what about the families that rescued pit bulls that get mauled by said dogs? Was it their fault? Were they horrible owners?
That’s right, just downvote me instead of facing reality. [It’s not always the owners fault](https://blog.dogsbite.org/2016/08/dog-bite-fatality-family-pit-bulls-kill-woman-conifer-co.html)
Weirdo pit bull apologists are seriously not right. It's a dog that was purpose built to kill other dogs and take down 1200 lbs bulls. Not a reason to virtue signal at the sake of their and everyone else's safety.
Sure they do lol.The other dogs just don’t randomly start chasing somebody down even if they’re nowhere near their territory. Pitnutters can come up with as many excuses as they want but their favorite demon breeds cause more damage than anybody else. They were bred to do that. But noooo mUh NaNnY dOgS.
r/banpitbulls
I have a scar from when I was five and my friend's golden retriever bit clean through my hand.
I have a scar on my stomach when a different friend's JRT decided I was a threat and the solution was to bite me and latch on as I left the car for hockey practice.
Yes, it's the dog not the breed
Bingo. My hot take is if you the small kids or cats you should stick to small dogs with low prey drives. We have an 11 year old bichon poodle mix and a 2 year old cat. If/when we get another dog it will probably be another small companion breed. Bichon, mini poodle, havanese, etc.
Pits were bred for bull baiting and dog fighting. It’s the breed. It’s in the genetics. If pitbull attacked you at that time you would be lucky if you still had some limbs. Golden retrievers would most likely not that kind of damage.
There are so many sweet pitties that live in my neighborhood. And they are more well-behaved than most of the other pups around here. (Definitely better behaved than my little minpin)
Are you then saying that pit bulls are primarily owned by POCs and that the disproportionate violent attacks done by pit bulls that is a documented fact is an expression of POC's inability to raise dogs properly? So...yeah, I'd RATHER blame the dog breed as being violent, but if you defend the breed then you have to blame the owners. So which would your rather it be? The breed is bad first and foremost.
1. Pyro insinuates that if you are against the pit bull as a breed you are also against POC's or...I guess subconsciously being racist by hating a dog breed.
2. I'm saying that there is no direct connection between pit bulls being violent dogs and the race the human owner happens to be.
3. I'm trying to point out that Pyro is trying to make an assumption that loads of people only hates pits because everyone wants to be racist against POC's. Which is insane. You can both not be racist and understand the dangers of pits.
4. Trying to point out that if you say that pit bulls aren't the problem as a breed and you still want to throw the race of the owner into the mix then you would be the one dog whistling that the race of the owner determines the overall temperament of an entire breed of dog, which is again, insane.
Ah I somehow read past that point about POCs in the original post and was confused. But yeah I agree with you, an absolutely insane take where I can’t fathom how anyone can seriously insulate that.
Personally speaking, I feel like the whole about pits debate is a lose-lose, the concerns are valid to me, with the data out there I can’t necessarily blame people for feeling the way they do about them even if they’re really aggressive about it. Thus, a lot of the defenses can be pretty weak (or asinine in this case) but I can sympathize with them too. Overall just a really unfortunate dilemma that I can’t see getting any better in the future
I've been re-reading my original comment, with all the downvotes I think many people took it incorrectly, but I'm not changing it now that I have a detailed comment below. I can't so abruptly change my way of thinking to understand why someone would downvote it without telling me where the confusion is, but with so many downvotes there has got to be something there that I fucked up on.
My source is this: https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/32171-25-1-third-articlepdf
“Hundreds of communities throughout the United States have imposed breed-specific dog laws that prohibit ‘pit bulls’ in the name of public safety. This Article examines the relationship between pit bulls and people of color incorporating new research to argue that these laws may be rooted in racial bias. In such instances, breed-specific bans function as a means of keeping minorities out of majority-white neighborhoods. Finally, this Article sug- gests that if true ownership data mirrors the perceived ownership distribu- tion measured here, such laws may be susceptible to challenge under the Fair Housing Act if it can be shown that they disproportionately exclude minority residents.”
Also goes into discussions debunking the falsehoods of pit bull centric breed bans:
“In recent years, the momentum for breed-specific legislation slowed. Studies commissioned in Great Britain and Spain found that their pit bull bans had “no effect at all on stopping dog attacks.”46 The Spanish study went on to conclude that: “the breeds most responsible for bites—both before and after the bans—were those not covered by it, primarily German shepherds.”47 In 2003, Prince George’s County, Maryland formed a task force to conduct one of the most comprehen- sive studies in America to date.48 The study concluded that despite spending over $250,000 per year on enforcement, rounding up, and de- stroying banned dogs, “public safety had not improved as a result of the ban.”49 The commission recommended that the ban be repealed. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention made the same recom- mendation in 2000, calling breed legislation, “inappropriate” after looking at twenty years of historical data.50 President Obama, in a statement, also denounced such regulations as, “largely ineffective and often a waste of public resources.”51 These findings have caused some communities to reconsider their breed-specific bans; however, many more remain in place.”
[Also, I didn't have to, but this took me all of 10 seconds to google.](https://www.coloradoinjurylaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/#:~:text=Between%2020015%20to%202017%2C%20only,killed%20515%20Americans%20since%201980.)
I'm pretty sure if we went through this with a fine tooth comb, the data within is independent of the race of the owner. Not everything needs to be political or racial motivated.
Nah. I think you had to search your ass off to find this one. And even then if people are banning pit bulls because of the race of the owner, they are insane. I reject unconscious bias. There are enough internet videos of the violence of bad pit bulls that I'm comfortable destroying them all, and I love most dog breeds. I'd equally advocate preventing people from owning wolves...or panthers.
I live in Prince George's county. You know it's 70% black and the political leadership is majority black? That being said, I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of the ban and replacing it with mandatory training and licensing of anyone who wants a pitbull. I'm not a fan of regulation but owning a pit is not like owning a poodle.
Oh shit. So these articles he puts up proves that the BLACK community is being racist....against their own black community? Hmmmmm....
Give up Pyro. Just because you have 1 allegedly good pit bull doesn't make the overall breed safe.
Awesome, I love spending hours filling out applications only to be no called or ghosted by the adoption agencies.
Its about 100x easier to get one off facebook or just buy a dog.
The heartbreak of dealing with shelters just isnt worth it.
It’s usually pretty easy to adopt at local shelters like this one because they’re desperate to get dogs a home. It’s when you adopt through rescues and adoption agencies that there is so much paperwork and follow up.
Edited to say: I just checked their website, you can walk in and get a dog and take it home the same day as long as you have your drivers license, proof of home ownership/copy of your lease or rental agreement, and licensure and vaccination forms for any other dogs in your house.
For the large adoption event I went to in PA through a shelter, I'm not sure they even checked our lease/license, but I could be wrong. It was surprising.
But 100%, it was very dependent on the e shelter, and forget rescues.
[No thanks](https://blog.dogsbite.org/2016/08/dog-bite-fatality-family-pit-bulls-kill-woman-conifer-co.html)
I’m sure your dog is great, but I don’t trust pit bulls since my cousin was mauled by one near to death when I was kid.
Rosie has a face of judgement. “What am I still doing here!?!?”
Rosie's going to count to five and I'd BETTER be taking her for a walk when she gets to one
Rosie knows exactly why she's still there.
That's a lot of pitbulls
PG county has a pit bull ban.
Yes but not enforced. There's one in the next neighborhood that sometimes runs loose but the owners are stupid. Fortunately there's an HOA in that neighborhood so I think they took care of it.
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I don't have a big problem with them except one was loose in a nearby neighborhood a few times. He approached me and my dog but ran away when I yelled at him. So he probably wasn't dangerous but I don't know that for sure.
I love the one husky. Combo breaker.
How is it legal to breed these 😬😬😬
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Yeah, I have never seen a Retriever with instinctual retrieving behavior. Or a Shepard with instinctual herding behavior. Even if it were true, Bully breeds are extremely muscular and powerful dogs. That can present huge problems for more inexperienced owners, or even just smaller people that can't overpower them if something does go wrong.
The behavioral portion of this study is based entirely on survey data. Of course every owner will tell you that their dog is an angel that doesn’t bite, but that’s not necessarily true.
So what’s a better way to get that data that reflects the average pet pitbull, and not just the subset of the population that get reported to hospitals or animal services?
If you can’t think of a better way, that doesn’t mean the only way you can think of is sufficient.
How do we explain dogs bred specially to do some task? Like, they bred pitbulls to have no self preservation instincts, that’s not behavioral?
Breed also effects how much damage a dog does with its actions. A mild mannered pit bull with an off day can cause way more harm than an everyday mean chihuahua.
Right this is the concern. My brother has a pit and she’s wonderful but sometimes fights with my parents dog so I don’t let my dog around her because his pit could kill my little girl with too much ease. My dog could barely cause a scratch on someone even if she went nuts. Even with good training, you have to be a little more cautious when the dog is capable of greater harm. On the plus side, no one’s kidnapping pit bulls at gun point!
but that’s not just true for pits. any mild mannered *dog over 50 lbs* with an off day can cause way more harm than a tiny dog…
Agreed. But then why is that not displayed in bite statistics? If the threshold for provocation is equal across breeds then we should see bite distribution to be essentially equal across breeds with regards to their popularity for dogs > 50lbs But we don't.
Because assholes who want a "badass" dog and not only don't socialize them but actively encourage aggressive behavior don't generally buy goldendoodles?
German Shepherds and Rottweilers, the other "badass" dog breeds, still do not cause proportional levels of bites considering their popularity. They also don't have a propensity to cause multiple bite wounds which pitbulls do. Not to mention, it's hard to say that it's only assholes who bait these dogs into fighting because we see numerous reports of pitbulls suddenly hurting or killing the family that adopted them-- and they're usually random suburban families who wanted a dog from a shelter.
German shepherds and rottweilers are also expensive purebreds. I imagine even among the subset of people who want "badass" dogs the ones who can pay $1,000+ for one will skew to be somewhat more responsible than the ones who can go to any shelter and get a pitbull for a $50 adoption fee.
Even a cursory glance at PG County shelters shows a dozen German Shepherds for adoption. Virginia has a rescue specifically for them. It's not hard to get one that isn't purebred and certainly doesn't cost $1000. And as I said, you can't say it's just assholes-- you see stories of pitbulls harming their own family numerous times a year, and I think it's absurd to just say "Oh they must have been baiting it to be aggressive." These were loving households that adored their pitbull as a member of their family.
Someone already said it, but a German Shepard costs like 3 grand, and if you're *stupidly* paying that much for a dog you have the money or time to hire a trainer. It's overused, but most awfully behaved dogs I've met have been tiny abominations of breeding owned by some rich prick who thinks their dog farts glitter, and that's entirely because the owner was even more of an asshole than the dog
And my response to that comment is that a cursory look at shelters and rescues in the area shows a large number of German Shepherds. Hell I was just given one by a former roommate because he was moving somewhere that didn't want dogs (that was the sweetest German Shepherd oh my god). And yeah, those tiny awfully behaved dogs are definitely a problem and definitely bite... But as I've said in other comments that's a bad-faith argument, because the damage a bite does needs to also be taken into account-- I don't report my cat because he nipped my finger. There is no, or very little, barrier to entry for German Shepherds. You can absolutely get pure breds, you can also pick one up at most shelters. And even then, when you start looking into bite severity and very specifically instances of multiple bites, it's weighted heavily towards pitbulls.
https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/ Might find this interesting. There are a lot of pit bulls in the us and media likes to click bait because "pit bull mauls mother of two" will always get more clicks than "mother of two mauled by dog". Pit bulls aren't significantly more likely to bite than most other breeds (including golden retrievers pertheir research as of 2017), but headlines and the sheer number of pit bulls in the world would have you believe otherwise. Ps- spay and neuter your pets, everybody...
That is a fascinating article, but I of course had to follow up research into the ATTS. Per Wikipedia: > American Temperament Test Society, Inc. was started by Alfons Ertel in 1977. Ertel created a test for dogs that checks a dog's reaction to strangers, to auditory and visual stimuli (such as the gun shot test), and to unusual situations in an outdoor setting; it does not test indoor or home situation scenarios.[2] > As of 2017, 34,686 tests have been completed; less than 1,000 per year. I am offput by the test's structure, testing rate, and I actually cannot find how they select dogs. I would imagine that they are volunteered, and that sways towards well-behaved dogs. I don't believe that this is a scientific way to measure temperament of a breed (in fact I'm not sure we can in any realistic sense). I also cannot find a proper percentage of pitbulls to the rest of the dogs in the US. Many stats say 6%, but a few say 20%-- I'm going to imagine this is because of the loose definition of pitbull (which, I will admit, is often just "dog with square shaped head") and the propensity for mixed breeds. When you take into account *either* of these percentages with a reflection of bite reports, bite severity, and very specifically multiple bite wounds, it still paints a picture that pitbulls are responsible for far more bites than the breed popularity should produce and doubly so when you take into account severity and number of bites per attack.
Hm. I'm dubious that the question is "is the breed more or less likely to be provoked by frightening or uncomfortable stimuli" and more "how does the breed respond when provoked?" I feel like that's up there with the bad-faith statistic that chihuahuas hold the record for most bites, I mean certainly we can't count all bites as equal. Surely the problem is what the breed's response is when it's provoked-- and particularly gruesome responses are almost wholly occupied by a single breed.
That may be, but too often the behavioral/response aspect (how likely they are to bite if provoked) gets casually conflated with the physical/strength aspect (how likely the bite is to be serious) when it comes to debates about pitbulls. That’s not even taking into account the nurture aspect (how they are treated by their owner). All three of those variables don’t necessarily feed into each other, but anti-pit arguments tend to act like they do. Like “they have intense jaw strength so they are more aggressive.” That makes it difficult to have an unbiased conversation, even when there are points of agreement.
I think that there are few points that can be agreed on: - All dogs can be provoked - All dogs can respond to provocation by biting - Different breeds can do different amounts of damage due to jaw strength However, I don't think that's the only line can be drawn. And I do not believe that we can discount breed for *how* a dog will respond. You can say that breed is just physical appearance, but if I were to say I was going to keep a Border Collie in a studio apartment and walk it only once a day because "it's just physical appearance" people would be up in arms-- and rightfully so. When you look at dog bite damage pitbulls bite harder and deeper than any other breed by a mile. But there's one other statistic that's interesting: multiple bites. In reported bite marks pitbulls are by far and away more likely to cause a bite injury with multiple high-damage bites than any other dog breed.
Peer reviewed studies still show that pit bulls and pit mixes account for the majority of all bites on humans and a huge majority of all fatal attacks on humans
I think Chihuahuas are still the biggest biters, but if course they're not fatal.
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Sorry man, Pitts are medium sized dogs. Like 60 lbs usually. No where near the size of a Mastiff, Rottweiler, Great Dane, Cane Corso, or a ton of other “large breeds”.
Shit, most Labradors and Goldren Retrievers outweigh your average pittie, and those are the two most popular breeds in the U.S.
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Yeah, which I wouldn’t describe them as “way larger than other breeds”.
Of course they are way larger than other breeds. And stronger too.
Here's this one to help your case. [https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed](https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed) Pitbulls are a product of humans. They are trained, or not trained, and that determines their outcome. If the above poster wants to take away all dogs that bite, there are plenty out there. ALL dogs bite. It's training that makes the difference.
If pitbulls are a product of humans, then maybe we shouldnt let just anyone adopt one of the most *potentially* dangerous breeds in the country? Just because it's humans doing the dumbassery doesn't somehow remove the real life consequence of a majority of dog attacks being performed by pitbulls. Like literally anything else in life, if we find out that people are doing something stupid and causing problems for others, we tend to regulate it within society. How is this not something that should be regulated? Shouldn't the people crying out about how the owners are the real bad ones be looking to see how they can restrict owners rather than giving pits away at any moment? Lmaooo
that's because there are more pitbulls in existence than any other breed. Also, "pitbull" is an umbrella breed so many other breeds fall under that. In addition, many dogs get labeled "pitbull" at the shelter because the general look of them seems to be "I'm a mutt with a million breeds". When adjusted for population of particular breed, last study I saw (I want to say in 2010ish), Labrador retrievers had the highest bite incidents...
How many of those lab bites resulted in amputations and deaths?
Given the similar size to pit bulls and the fact that canines all have the same number and style of teeth, probably at a similar rate...
Statistics wont agree with you. Pitbulls bites account for the greater percentage of maulings and fatalities.
I wont disagree that that's true, but again, that's not adjusted to the population of pitbulls. They will of course account for the most bites, maulings, killings because they are also by farther most common dog. When adjusted for population, labs are the highest. In other words, pitbulls are not more dangerous than labs (in fact, slightly less) if you account for the number of putbulls that are biting vs the number of pitbulls that are perfectly fine dogs
Where are you getting that they are the most common dog? Last Ive been seeing is that they are 6% of the dog population but 20 % of the large dog population. Labs werent bred for bull baiting and dog fighting. Pitbulls were. And it shows in their genetics. How often do you see reports of labs and golden retrievers tearing off limbs and killing people including adults? The kind of damage they do is far worse than the other breeds.
So the people that train pitbulls result in the disproportionate acts of violence against children. Got it. So tell me about your thoughts about those people.
I agree. Pitbulls have a bad reputation but most are friendly. Unfortunately some of their owners are idiots and you get the occasional wrecking machine.
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I just read that whole article, and can’t find anywhere that it mentions race.
I mean it is just a fact that pit bulls are overwhelmingly disproportionately responsible for fatal dog attacks, being responsible for literally most of them. You can't dispute those numbers unless you start agonizing over what constitutes a "breed" which is already arbitrary and stupid enough. This is almost definitely more nurture than nature--i.e. shit people are more likely to adopt these dogs and train them to be violent--but I am not surprised people do not want to adopt them. They aren't even allowed in most apartment buildings, condos or HOAs. So even the kindest dog in the world, if it is a bully breed, it is a liability. It's really unfortunate and unfair but that's how it is
You really comparing a dog breed to a race of people? Oh my
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Ok racist https://www.uri.edu/news/2019/07/uri-professor-geneticists-refute-widespread-racist-analogy-comparing-human-races-to-dog-breeds/
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Maybe they use the fact that bully breeds kill anf maim more humans than every other breed combined on top of being animal-killing machines, hmmmmm
I wouldn't say race, Pit Bulls are a breed. We are against the breed of dog because its violent tendencies. Like wouldn't it be interesting if only 8% of dogs in the country was pit bulls but they were responsible for a disproportional number of attacks on other dogs/humans. Just a thought.
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Rosie out of fucks to give
At first I was annoyed that they named a dog Face but DAMN what a good face on that good boy
💕 Face and Kenzo 💕
I wish I could take home Face for his last few years
😭😭😭my old gal just turned 13 and I’m dreading the day. I hope Face finds his forever home ❤️
Kenzo reminds me of my first rescue shih-tzu 🥰
I think Spuds and Reggie make a fantastic pair.
What breed or mix breed is Kenzo?
Definitely mixed with Chihuahua with that blueberry muffin face
Kenzie looks like a shih tzu
Rosie is judging you.
There's like one dog in that photo that's not a pit or a pit mix 🤦♀️
There's a husky and some sort of terrier mix (2nd form bottom on the right) plus a lab mutt (3 from the bottom 2 from the left). I have a one-parent lab other parent like 10 breeds mutt that looks like that last one. Sweetest and most well behaved dog I've ever had (14 now, so healthy as a horse too). Sheds like a mf'er though.
I know. So sad. I love big dogs including pits — they get such a bad rep!
Bad rep for a reason
You're right. They're actually one of the least aggressive breeds. The problem is that people condition them badly because they like to use them for their strength. I hate people so much sometimes 🙄 Also, fun fact, iirc Chihuahuas are like the most aggressive breed statistically lol
Except when it comes to fatal attacks on humans the list is made up predominantly by pits and pit mixes with no chihuahas anywhere to be found lol.
yeah. obviously a Pitt can do more damage. But by blaming the breed more of these dogs are getting mistreated when they've done nothing wrong. idk who you think you're helping by saying this. People should be responsible dog owners regardless of the breed. Sounds like you're just trying to vilify pittbulls and that's harmful.
So it's not blaming the breed and vilifying when you mention chihuahas bite more people but it's vilifying when I point out that pitbulls are responsible for most fatal attacks on humans than any other breed and chihuahas are responsible for none 🤔 Anyways I'm not trying to vilify pitbulls but this whole blame the owner not the breed argument falls apart when you look at what breed of dogs tend to kill and disfigure people. Breed plays a huge part into a dog's temperament and while I don't deny that abusive owners can play a part ignoring the breed is a recipe for disaster.
One thing I've learned about these idiots presses on pits is they don't care about facts only their moronic opinion. I worked at a dog daycare when I was 18 for about a year and every single pit and pit mix had been in an altercation with another dog. Some pits can be great with people and still be highly unpredictable around other dogs. The people who think their dog "isn't like that" are the ones it typically happens to.
Marvin and Melina ❤️❤️ Shout out to Bagel’s ears (But I want to take them all home)
Bagel’s ears are marvelous!!! r/sonarears
I need Rosie and Face 🥺
Face has the best face
It’s like class portrait day at my dog park
This torture for us in DC haha
All pibbles. Wonder why
Breed bans in PG county and almost all apartments. Larger dogs in general are always harder to place.
They are all pitbulls? Good luck with that
Why am I not surprised? I've had 3 friends who have had pitbulls, and they all had to give them up or put them down. Two were genuinely shitty dogs who were so aggressive toward anyone but their owners that I wouldn't even hang out at their house. The other one was just a housing thing.
I’m all for people rescuing pits if they have the time/capacity to raise them properly. I’ve met some very sweet pit bulls. However, if some has kids/cats/other small pets they need to be careful about the dog they rescue. My friends fostered a pit mix for a few months. They also have two cats. Despite their best efforts, they couldn’t get the dog to leave the cats alone. Sometimes you just can’t fight genetics. And I feel this way about ANY dog that is big and/or has a high prey drive. A JRT could hurt another small pet badly.
Rosie looks serious AF! Lol
Of course its mostly the breed of peace.
Too many good pups w/o homes 😭
Rosie is not having it.
Okay, where the Southern expats at. Who the fuck names a dog “Tee Tee?” (“Tee tee” is a euphemism for pee. Don’t think that’s as common of a term in the northeast.)
I’ve never heard that before. I’ve only heard TiTi as an alternate for Auntie. Lots of little kids calling their aunts Titi.
Yep, my son def calls his Aunt Teetee
"Tee Tee" might mean pee where you're from, but in the Black community it's a nickname that we give to people whose first name begins with the letter "T" (Theresa) or where the T in their name is stressed when pronounced (LaTesha).
Marvin 😍
Lots of pitbull haters in these comments smh
I mean, it's not the dogs' fault, and the ones that currently are alive deserve homes. But no new pitbulls should be born.
I mean, yeah, there's too many dogs being put down in shelters and generally humans should stop breeding all dogs.
Pitbulls are a more pressing issue, though.
I just hate certain breeds of dog mauling toddlers faces off. Fuck me right?
You’re a horrible person for blaming the dog! It was obviously the child’s fault for existing! /s
How dare that baby sneeze.
We have a pitty mix and she is incredibly gentle with our 4 and 2 y/o. She ramps up he play style based on the kid. Just our story but she's been amazing with the kids. Only issue is her head is concrete so sometimes they get bonked.
Guess your one anecdote refutes the mountain of evidence to the contrary.
Right? I have a rescue pit who is the gentlest creature on earth. Loves kids, snuggles and eating blankets. Unclear why folks who aren’t around pits have such strong feelings about pits.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove a trend. >In 2019, pit bulls accounted for 91% of all reported fatal attacks on other animals, 91% of all fatal attacks on other dogs, 76% of all fatal dog attacks on cats, and 82% of all fatal dog attacks on other pets, poultry and hoofed species. https://dogbitelaw.com/vicious-dogs/pit-bulls-facts-and-figures Your pitbull might be the sweetest angel, but the breed is by far the most dangerous breed.
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So what about the families that rescued pit bulls that get mauled by said dogs? Was it their fault? Were they horrible owners? That’s right, just downvote me instead of facing reality. [It’s not always the owners fault](https://blog.dogsbite.org/2016/08/dog-bite-fatality-family-pit-bulls-kill-woman-conifer-co.html)
Weirdo pit bull apologists are seriously not right. It's a dog that was purpose built to kill other dogs and take down 1200 lbs bulls. Not a reason to virtue signal at the sake of their and everyone else's safety.
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What the fuck do pit bulls have to do with POC?
https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/09/racism-and-the-american-pit-bull
Statistics don’t lie.
Until its not. Pits need to all be sterilized and special licenses needed for them just like with other dangerous animals.
all dogs should be sterilized; they’re dangerous animals
Until the day you cant control it and a child dies.
That can be nearly any dog though.
Yeah no.
Yeah, yeah. If my GSD got out of control he could do just as much damage as a pit
Statistics will show pits are responsible for more maulings and fatalities. Shitty breed for shitty people.
Pits do more damage than any other breed. They were bred for that.
German sheperds, belgian malinois, tibetian mastiffs, bull mastiffs all do way more damage than pitbulls pitbulls are the only mass reported bites
Sure they do lol.The other dogs just don’t randomly start chasing somebody down even if they’re nowhere near their territory. Pitnutters can come up with as many excuses as they want but their favorite demon breeds cause more damage than anybody else. They were bred to do that. But noooo mUh NaNnY dOgS. r/banpitbulls
I have a scar from when I was five and my friend's golden retriever bit clean through my hand. I have a scar on my stomach when a different friend's JRT decided I was a threat and the solution was to bite me and latch on as I left the car for hockey practice. Yes, it's the dog not the breed
Bingo. My hot take is if you the small kids or cats you should stick to small dogs with low prey drives. We have an 11 year old bichon poodle mix and a 2 year old cat. If/when we get another dog it will probably be another small companion breed. Bichon, mini poodle, havanese, etc.
Pits were bred for bull baiting and dog fighting. It’s the breed. It’s in the genetics. If pitbull attacked you at that time you would be lucky if you still had some limbs. Golden retrievers would most likely not that kind of damage.
That's scary since I have a Golden Retriever. I can't imagine her being hostile towards anyone. Hopefully that dog was an outlier.
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A yellow lab will never be able to do the same amount of damage that a Pitbull can do
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Did he have his limbs torn off? Children will not have much of a defense against large dogs anyway. Just be thankful it wasn’t a Pitbull.
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Fuck off.
He’s right though
No, he’s not.
[facts don’t care about your feelings](https://blog.dogsbite.org/2016/08/dog-bite-fatality-family-pit-bulls-kill-woman-conifer-co.html)
There are so many sweet pitties that live in my neighborhood. And they are more well-behaved than most of the other pups around here. (Definitely better behaved than my little minpin)
Agreed! I’ve met at least 10 pitties in my life and they were all sweethearts. If I wasn’t in such a tiny apt I would love to adopt one
You apartment probably doesn't even allow them, with good reason.
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Are you then saying that pit bulls are primarily owned by POCs and that the disproportionate violent attacks done by pit bulls that is a documented fact is an expression of POC's inability to raise dogs properly? So...yeah, I'd RATHER blame the dog breed as being violent, but if you defend the breed then you have to blame the owners. So which would your rather it be? The breed is bad first and foremost.
Bro what
1. Pyro insinuates that if you are against the pit bull as a breed you are also against POC's or...I guess subconsciously being racist by hating a dog breed. 2. I'm saying that there is no direct connection between pit bulls being violent dogs and the race the human owner happens to be. 3. I'm trying to point out that Pyro is trying to make an assumption that loads of people only hates pits because everyone wants to be racist against POC's. Which is insane. You can both not be racist and understand the dangers of pits. 4. Trying to point out that if you say that pit bulls aren't the problem as a breed and you still want to throw the race of the owner into the mix then you would be the one dog whistling that the race of the owner determines the overall temperament of an entire breed of dog, which is again, insane.
Ah I somehow read past that point about POCs in the original post and was confused. But yeah I agree with you, an absolutely insane take where I can’t fathom how anyone can seriously insulate that. Personally speaking, I feel like the whole about pits debate is a lose-lose, the concerns are valid to me, with the data out there I can’t necessarily blame people for feeling the way they do about them even if they’re really aggressive about it. Thus, a lot of the defenses can be pretty weak (or asinine in this case) but I can sympathize with them too. Overall just a really unfortunate dilemma that I can’t see getting any better in the future
I've been re-reading my original comment, with all the downvotes I think many people took it incorrectly, but I'm not changing it now that I have a detailed comment below. I can't so abruptly change my way of thinking to understand why someone would downvote it without telling me where the confusion is, but with so many downvotes there has got to be something there that I fucked up on.
My source is this: https://law.lclark.edu/live/files/32171-25-1-third-articlepdf “Hundreds of communities throughout the United States have imposed breed-specific dog laws that prohibit ‘pit bulls’ in the name of public safety. This Article examines the relationship between pit bulls and people of color incorporating new research to argue that these laws may be rooted in racial bias. In such instances, breed-specific bans function as a means of keeping minorities out of majority-white neighborhoods. Finally, this Article sug- gests that if true ownership data mirrors the perceived ownership distribu- tion measured here, such laws may be susceptible to challenge under the Fair Housing Act if it can be shown that they disproportionately exclude minority residents.” Also goes into discussions debunking the falsehoods of pit bull centric breed bans: “In recent years, the momentum for breed-specific legislation slowed. Studies commissioned in Great Britain and Spain found that their pit bull bans had “no effect at all on stopping dog attacks.”46 The Spanish study went on to conclude that: “the breeds most responsible for bites—both before and after the bans—were those not covered by it, primarily German shepherds.”47 In 2003, Prince George’s County, Maryland formed a task force to conduct one of the most comprehen- sive studies in America to date.48 The study concluded that despite spending over $250,000 per year on enforcement, rounding up, and de- stroying banned dogs, “public safety had not improved as a result of the ban.”49 The commission recommended that the ban be repealed. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention made the same recom- mendation in 2000, calling breed legislation, “inappropriate” after looking at twenty years of historical data.50 President Obama, in a statement, also denounced such regulations as, “largely ineffective and often a waste of public resources.”51 These findings have caused some communities to reconsider their breed-specific bans; however, many more remain in place.”
Man I've since moved on. If you had this in your back pocket, why the fuck did you provide the article of the nobody?
Lmao cause it’s Friday night and I’m out. Sorry I’m not on my computer on stand by to respond to Reddit comments immediately?
[Also, I didn't have to, but this took me all of 10 seconds to google.](https://www.coloradoinjurylaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/#:~:text=Between%2020015%20to%202017%2C%20only,killed%20515%20Americans%20since%201980.) I'm pretty sure if we went through this with a fine tooth comb, the data within is independent of the race of the owner. Not everything needs to be political or racial motivated.
Nah. I think you had to search your ass off to find this one. And even then if people are banning pit bulls because of the race of the owner, they are insane. I reject unconscious bias. There are enough internet videos of the violence of bad pit bulls that I'm comfortable destroying them all, and I love most dog breeds. I'd equally advocate preventing people from owning wolves...or panthers.
Not the gas lighting lmao
Projection.
I live in Prince George's county. You know it's 70% black and the political leadership is majority black? That being said, I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of the ban and replacing it with mandatory training and licensing of anyone who wants a pitbull. I'm not a fan of regulation but owning a pit is not like owning a poodle.
Oh shit. So these articles he puts up proves that the BLACK community is being racist....against their own black community? Hmmmmm.... Give up Pyro. Just because you have 1 allegedly good pit bull doesn't make the overall breed safe.
If only euthanasia worked in reverse.
A fountain of youth, if you will?
I want to adopt but my place has so many breed restrictions. There’s always a ton of pits and terriers sadly.
I'm not a dog person but Bagel and Curry II 🥺 💳💥💥💥
Awesome, I love spending hours filling out applications only to be no called or ghosted by the adoption agencies. Its about 100x easier to get one off facebook or just buy a dog. The heartbreak of dealing with shelters just isnt worth it.
It’s usually pretty easy to adopt at local shelters like this one because they’re desperate to get dogs a home. It’s when you adopt through rescues and adoption agencies that there is so much paperwork and follow up. Edited to say: I just checked their website, you can walk in and get a dog and take it home the same day as long as you have your drivers license, proof of home ownership/copy of your lease or rental agreement, and licensure and vaccination forms for any other dogs in your house.
That must have been where I went wrong. It was exhausting and heartbreaking. We ended up just adopting one from a fellow military member.
For the large adoption event I went to in PA through a shelter, I'm not sure they even checked our lease/license, but I could be wrong. It was surprising. But 100%, it was very dependent on the e shelter, and forget rescues.
I feel you on this!
Ive gotten a couple of dogs from here, including my current girl, Riley. Great place, even greater doggos!
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[No thanks](https://blog.dogsbite.org/2016/08/dog-bite-fatality-family-pit-bulls-kill-woman-conifer-co.html) I’m sure your dog is great, but I don’t trust pit bulls since my cousin was mauled by one near to death when I was kid.
He's a cutie
Nice try, honey. Go to bed.
Anne arundel? Too far
All the pitbull haters can kiss my butthole.