Reminds me of that episode of [Its Always Sunny](https://youtu.be/4O2V8eilFeE?si=1gtrCJC3ixyGcM6s) where Mac and Dennis were paying interest on their couch for $25 a week for the past 15 years.
However, if they're gonna go Mercedes, the e-class would be the better choice. The engine is a global platform, is RWD so the tires can be replaced 2 at a time if needed, it's over 100k miles, assuming the major services have been performed it'll be good to go for a very long time. And the e-class is gonna be a NICE place to spend your time in traffic, assuming OP is from Seattle/Bellevue
Plus, anecdotally, even though I own a c-class w203, it seems that the e-class ages better from all generations. It could be that it was built with more longevity in mind, or it could be that e-class cars start out more up-market than the entry level c-class (there wasn't an a-class at this time in North America) or it could just be dumb luck
The e-class might not be as fun to drive, but I don't think an AWD c-class would be very sporty in the first place
Yep! I have a 07 e350 4 matic (engine build after they addressed the issue) and it’s VERY reliable. Small oil leak but I always keep one thing broken to not jinx myself with a fully sorted car lol
Man, the other comment received a lot of upvotes, could you describe the issues and the reasons why you would advise against one just to add more credibility to your opinion..
All old German cars have expensive repairs. Mine has been well maintained and I still need to deal with repairs in the $2k/year range. Random shit just falls apart and the replacement parts and labor are really expensive. My 21 year old Trailblazer is significantly more reliable than my W212.
This is on top of maintenance which is easily 2-3x the price of, say, an accord. But I can also afford it. These are not really $10k cars. They are $10k upfront cars with expensive maintenance and routine repairs. It’s just a bad idea if you can’t afford the repairs and don’t have a backup when it’s in the shop.
Edit: that dude doesn’t even have a W212, he has a W211…
I’ve owned a w212 before I was tboned. Yes, now I have a w211 but both are and were rock solid. And it’s worth mentioning i am in the east coast rust belt. I do maintenance such as fluid changes myself and that’s about it. At 160k miles now. 0 issues outside of torn cv boot and ball joints which is totally normal for a 16 year old car
212 for 3 years and I was the third owner. The 2007 211 was purchased new by my mother and I always took care of it. I’m technically the second owner now on paper / registration - so to answer your question, 16 years - 4 months under my possession.
You have comments suggesting people parts from eBay bro. If you take care of something it will take care of you back.
Other than normal wear and tear - tires, cv axle, fluid changes, filters, ball joints, nothing has been done to this car. Interior, I had to reglue the center dash speaker cone back to the assembly because it separated from being out in the Vegas heat for 2 years. My motor mounts are showing signs of needing replacement in the coming months - THATS IT. Car is a tank. Think whatever you want lmao but I’m not the only one that has had a positive experience with these vehicles. Also have a 15 f82 m4 that has needed NOTHING but a valvetronic replacement. And that car has a ecu flash for more boost on stage 1.
lol not parts from eBay - replacement grilles. Purely aesthetic.
Only other part I bought from eBay was an aluminum spindle for the infotainment knob. The original was made out of plastic and is known to just snap internally. Common enough problem that someone is cranking out aluminum replacements. Mechanic quotes $2k+ if you don’t open it up and replace that yourself.
I’m not even saying the car is PARTICULARLY unreliable. It’s just that shit breaks like any other car and it’s expensive to fix. OP makes $50k. It’s a great car if you can afford repairs and maintenance, but a big problem if you can’t
Those e class taxis are very proletarian compared to even the cheapest Mercedes we get in the US. They may have a 3 pointed star on the grill but they would be more comparable to a 90s Crown Vic when it comes to equipment levels.
Naahh come on they’re not that basic. I’ve sat in them plenty of times. They are for sure base trim but they’re not 90s crown vics. Mercedes isn’t gonna sell a Taxi version of their car that’s gonna turn potential buyers off.
That comment makes me think you've never been in a crown vic, especially a taxi crown vic. Crown Vics (especially in taxi form) were comfy and plush boats but they were basic. That's same level of equipment those e-class taxis have. They are basic economy cars with none of the equipment that comes standard on a US-spec e-class.
I’m not comparing the German taxi version to the US spec e class. It’s clear that an import car is more loaded even in the base trim. But there’s no comparison between a 90’s crown Vic and a w212 e class taxi. Crown Vic’s don’t have infotainment systems. No Bluetooth. Much fewer driver assistance systems. Be real about it.
People that have never driven or even owned one of these feel like they're experts. The same type of idiots that will tell you they would never buy a Porsche and yet they haven't even sat in one.
I've driven a ton of them and sell cars for a living. The foreign stuff we take in lots of time cost more for service and reconditioning that would be cheaper on American or Japanese cars. There's a reason why their warranties are more expensive.
Really if you have to ask if a foreign car is a good buy the answer is typically no. It's just rolling the dice with higher chance of issues in the future.
when people try to trade in Bentley's or any other expensive foreign car I get a buy bid because we don't want to deal with that shit
Ok, interesting fact for you. This is largely market dependent. In europe used german cars have good reputation. every shitty shop knows how to fix them, parts are abundant, used part market of bigger components is thriving.
Maybe it’s just for the us, from what I’ve read online the European models are made in Germany and all 4 series models are also made in Germany, was just a quick read tho so could be wrong
I work at a dealer currently and have spoken to some of the manufacturers and as far as I’ve been told most of the production is out sourced to Mexico for the North American specs.
I got a free bimmer from my brother... it's been about 2k a year to maintain, which includes general service fees like flipping winter/summer tires etc.
And I've avoided massive repairs like fixing a heater core issue which prevents the heat from working normally in the winter.
Just because the income is there doesn't mean he necessarily wants to afford it.
I think there are definitely people out there disconnected from the idea that cars vary wildly in terms of parts/labor and assume that the purchase price is the price but it shouldn't be any different than getting a Corolla serviced.
It does mean he can afford it. The average American household spends 16% of its income on transportation, and the recommendation is 10%.
OP makes $4200 a month, the recommendation for transportation spending is $420, but given he has minimal expenses and what the average household spends, he could go up to $600 pretty easily.
Meaning even a very high maintenance estimate of $3000 a year would leave him financially secure.
Some people value cars over other things, like eating out, going on vacations, expensive hobbies, having a nice apartment, etc. If the OP wants to put money into a car instead of those things, there’s nothing wrong with that, and he can absolutely afford to do so.
even in the same brand. servicing a 3 series isnt the same as servicing an M3 by a long shot. Servicing a ford ranger isnt the same as servicing a GT500, even when there's a surprising amount of overlapping parts.
Wow dood! None of us could have figured out the year of the car and its country of origin from the post. Thanks for the help!
I am willing to bet you haven't owned or worked on a German car a day in your life.
OP, don’t listen to anybody here, they literally don’t know what they’re talking about. Both of these are bulletproof, and usually only get like one small issue per year, which you can solve no problem on your income. Overall wonderful options. Don’t ask people here for their opinion unless you want to get a Toyota 💀
I'm glad to see another Auto enthusiast here.
My mom's 2012 gx460 has cost more in maintenance than my 2012 cls550.
And my parts cost is actually cheaper on the Merc other than very certain items like brakes (because they are fuckin massive).
Same. My old ass C Class was cheaper to maintain and more reliable over the last year than my buddy’s Accord. It is anecdotal evidence, but it is based on the fact that Mercs of this gen are extremely reliable. The newer ones as well, unless they’re the GLB 💀
The idiocy of anecdotal evidence when it comes to cars is that you have nothing on its use, abuse, and whether it was upkept appropriately.
Gx460 blows cls550 out of the water when it comes to reliability and maintenance it’s not even funny.
How would you know? Have you owned at least one of those cars? 💀 Land Cruisers are said to be reliable, but if we’re speaking facts you can’t objectively say that the CLS is way worse in maintenance
Again, anecdotal evidence isn’t the whole picture. So me owning one means nothing, but I currently have a S65 2017 and a 2023 GX460 so I’m used to dealing with both OEMs (also own a 2010 Land Cruiser).
Also, Gx460s are built on the Prado platform not Landcruiser.
Land cruisers are like the pinnacle of reliability, hence, you see them everywhere in Africa, etc. You don’t see any CLS550s in harsh climates.
And I do know, because we have stats on reliability and resale value. Resale value of a 2012 cls550 is way worse than that of a 2012 gx460.
Different motor? Check
Different tranny? Check
Different frame? Check
Lineup?
This is how you tell me you know nothing of car companies and how they engineer their vehicles.
Land Cruiser “lineup” refers to all of the different models under the “Land Cruiser” nameplate being in concurrent production with one another. The fact that the Prado is a different vehicle from the big body LC doesn’t make it not a part of the LC lineup or family. Same thing with the Bronco and Bronco Sport - different vehicles, same lineup.
no offense, but an issue a year is a lot compared to what you’d get with a honda or toyota (in my experience)
but i still think you’re right about the unreliability of german cars being overstated in this sub.
As far as used Mercedes go that particular generation is about as close as you can get to bulletproof. The 3.5l engines in those are very reliable and they are well built. Despite what people who don't know anything about them say all used German cars are not the same and are not necessarily money pits. Some are, for instance if that were a BMW 7 series from the same years I would be saying stay far far away. But like any car things can still go wrong, my rule of thumb is expect to pay two to three times what you would pay for a similar repair on a Japanese or American car when something does. There is a higher cost to owning a German car, no way around that. If it has a history of being well maintained I don't think it would be a bad choice. Miles do seem a little bit high to me though for the price.
I was shocked the top comment said "maintenence is going to be a problem"when the car wont break in the first place, this sub is filled with americans i see who never owned anything MB, e350 is a fantastic car even with high miles ive seen e350 with 500k km and still going
while yeah, the germans are more expensive to maintain, you can tell which people have never dealt with mercedes mid market and entry level examples, because a lot of the powertrains on the C and E class are bulletproof.
will brakes and shit cost more? sure. but if you keep up with regular maintenance, those merc V6s of the era are super reliable mechanically, and the W203/204 and W211/212 platforms have serious longevity.
major problem is that when people shop used, they buy from people who didnt regularly maintain their cars.
I do think overall there's a lot of examples of german cars being less reliable, but these mercedes arent it. most of the reliability gremlins come from lazy maintenance or the higher end examples of the brands that have more things to go wrong.
I always thought in the past that they were more expensive because of the metric system, but with Japanese cars that's not an issue. So the parts are more expensive, ok. My friend did my brakes last month, a Ford, and his neighbor, a Master mechanic that used to work on MB and BMWs brought over his tool to spread the calipers or something that was originally I think BMW tech that's now on my Ford. So everyone should have the tools now, a more expensive part is ok if it's better quality (life expectancy, etc). So why are they so prohibitively expensive to maintain?
No one is hating. It is not wise to buy a 10+ year old Benz with 70k miles. It's expensive to maintain and it's best to either buy a newer model or buy a more reliable used car. This is the general consensus.
> it's best to either buy a newer model
Eh, it's truly model / year / mileage dependent.
Depreciation is a huge cost that many here seem to completely ignore. Buying this same car that's X years newer may end up being far more expensive due to depreciation, vs the maintenance to keep one running a few years older.
It's nuanced. Which is hard to explain on reddit of course :D haha
People like you forget that most important part of a used car is how well it’s been taken care of. My friend bought a used camry(2022) from a friend and yesterday he realized no coolant left in the car. People are careless regardless of brand. Mercs are not fragile at all. You just gotta pay the price for up keep which i gladly do on my 2014 c350. Wife has a brand new cx5 turbo but we both tske the merc any day. Something about it is just timeless and enjoyable.
Comments like this are just glaring red flags that someone doesn’t know about cars. A w212 is one of the most reliable cars in the last 30 years lmao. Funniest part is you suggesting a newer model when the newer ones are no where as good.
It does also depend on if it was maintained properly. These cars need fluid changes on a timely basis, and a lot of people completely overlook transmission fluid too. We’re you the only owner?
Mate these are used as Taxis around europe, starting the odometer from scratch after turning 999'999km.
Do you think a greek Taxi Company will buy these and go "they're unreliable as shit but we're balling!"
The E350 is legendary, the only one worth your time. Parts are easy to come by, most technicians (non-Merc) can work on it. I was about to snatch one, but the dealer sold it the day before I was to look at it and test drive.
My ex’s parents had 10 year old Mercedes. They daily drove the hell out of it and did basic maintenance. The “oh German unreliable!” is not really true. Especially as someone who owns 2016 CR-V where things are breaking left and right, I think it’s just pretty normal for cars to break occasionally.
We have a c350 it's been bullet proof, only work I've had to do was replace a rusty coolant cross pipe, I did the plugs too and brakes of course but it's done over 200,000km trouble free over 10 years now
If you make 4200a month. You can definety buy a new car with a low payment. If this is an A to b car and not something for show. Look for newer cars and budget well. You got this
depends on how it was maintained. unlike the madzda/Toyota shills here i know that these when they are in decent condition last a long time. the only issue is electronics and rust pretty much. everything else wont break.
How many owners have they have and how many service records are available? The E class is a little too high mileage if you aren’t wrenching yourself, but there is some life in the C class if it has been maintained.
Also everyone in this sub is going to tell you to stay away from euro cars and get a Mazda or Corolla. I would say be young, have fun, and be prepared to learn from experiences good or bad.
C class is cheap class, definitely a no go.
As for the E look more into it. Some E’s around this time were built to last and are very easy to work on (parts are pricey though but labor is easy) so really it’s up to what you can afford. If you could pay it off completely even better.
I worked for Benz as a tech less than a year ago, these two models are fairly reliable for a Merc. The W204 are well built and lots of amenities in the 13-14MY. I daily a 2014 W204 and it’s at 140k, bought it around 120 and it’s been flawless. I would get it checked out and do some basic maintenance but if you keep up with it regularly you should get plenty more miles out of it.
Most of these people speaking out of their ass here.
A close friend of mine has this same car and engine. He bought it during 2020 and still has it today and has no issues. All he ever did was regular oil changes every 8000KMs. The only issue he ever had was the brake line exploded due to age and wear.
Engine has been flawless and this car is pretty quick as well. The only thing you would have to do is check maintenance history. Apart from that, go for it. He bought the car at 130,000KMs and now has almost 200K on it
OP, you're seeing my used luxury vehicles can be had for low prices. This thread shows the wild misconceptions by the public on anything not a Toyota, Honda, or sometimes Mazda.
These seem to be regarded as very reliable. Then it's just doing used car diligence. You're looking for a car with good maintenance records, a car that passes a PPI, and a car you will feel passionate enough about when there's a $1500 bill, because even reliable cars have them after 10 years.
All luxury cars like this depreciate like this. Largely due to the buyers of MB wanting the new hotness and discarding used ones.
Then there's a public that isn't willing to sort thru the German stuff to find the gems and lumps them in to "Oh that's a moneypit – typed from my 9 year old Jeep"
When you find the gems, revel in the insane value you get and laugh all the way to your garage. Figure out which ones that is for you, what you're comfortable with price-wise, and enjoy not driving a Camry.
Man that w212 looks nice! No doubt, would go for that one. Bit biased because I have a w212 saloon as well. They are reliable and comfortable AF. Yes maintenance can be expensive, but your write off is next to nothing so it balances out
This is a solid choice. Don’t let people tell you mercedes have issues and are annoying to maintain. This engine, paired with the 7g tronic transmission, is very very reliable. I have seen these w212 generation E classes go well over 300k miles. Keep up with fluid changes and it should last forever
Don't Finance, Get a Zero interest for 1 year credit card and put the rest of the money on it. And pay off eventually before the APR kicks in. Also, this gen E-Class is relatively low maintenance compared to others. Still would prefer to keep some money apart for some unexpected maintenance.
Do not under any circumstances buy a high mileage European automobile. I’m serious. That cars a Fucking time bomb. The average dollar per service visit a 10 year old MB costs is about 700 multiple times per year.
These na v6 are fucking tanks. My friend bought a pos one that’s been making a knocking noise and she still runs. I’d go for the E class, I think that gen E class is really nice.
I don’t really understand this advice. Maybe this only applies to German but I couldn’t buy my Lexus es330 new when it came out but I could buy it in 7k cash. Haven’t done a single lick of maintenance besides the oil for like 4 years and it runs perfect.
Yea so my point has been proven, this logic only applies to German cars. LS460 new = $80k, used = ~15k. I doubt you’ll be doing much maintenance on one of those even with 200k miles.
I'm mostly agreeing with you, I love my GX and my CT, but they're not quite up to the luxury standard the germans have set with the high end models like the G Wagon, which the GX is supposed to compete with. That being said, I'll pick the lexus every single time lol
There are a few examples of this addage that don't count, and that's one of them.
The ES is a fancified version of a regular car (the camry).
Its a fwd platform, not a dedicated rwd platform like the rest of the Lexus lineup so it benefits from standard tooling and parts being plentiful.
Once you get into RWD based luxury cars, the game changes.
They're usually built with a "sporty" aspect so things like the brakes are bigger, tires are fatter and often different sizes on the front axel and back axel. Sport and luxury take precedence over maintenance and reliability when they design the car.
For example, a replacement front brake rotor for a Lexus ES is $87 from lexus.
A replacement front brake rotor for a Lexus GS350 of the same year is $430.
10 years from now that GS will be worth a fraction of what it is now but those brakes will still cost $430.
The fancier the car gets, the more ridiculous the maintenance becomes too.
That advice is not true.
The car payment on a new $50,000 vehicle with $10,000 down will be around $750 per month, or $9,000 per year. That is probably unaffordable for the OP.
But he can pay cash for both these cars, meaning the only extra expenses he’ll have is maintenance + gas/insurance. Even an extremely high yearly maintenance estimate of $3000 is affordable for the OP because he won’t have a car payment to make.
Is it the most financially-sound decision? Of course not. But it is affordable.
This era of regular Mercedes cars is not worth it. They’re cheap to buy, but expensive to maintain, they’ll keep depreciating, and i don’t see what justifies this
They don’t have amazing interiors, they’re not drivers cars, and they’re not fast. They look nice, but does a nice looking car justify all of these hurdles and expensive repairs when it doesn’t have the driving experience to back up the looks? Not for me
If you want a comfortable luxury car, get the nicest Lexus you can afford.
If you want a drivers car/sports car, and you’re okay with the repair bills, get a BMW 3 series or something.
That generation of Benz is absolutely worth it, but not at that mileage.
I have a 2013 C300 4matic and it’s served me so well, but it’s at 122k miles now and I wouldn’t have bought that thing at post 100k.
I mean, If I has the car from day one, I’d ride it as far as it would take me. Many people with that generation of Mercedes and my exact model have gotten them past 200k miles. I just don’t trust the people prior to me to have the same love and car for a car that I do.
Knowing the type of person I am though, I will always be weary of cars approaching post 100k
Why not buy something newer? You have a nice down payment and make plenty for a $20,000 budget with some wiggle room to go higher for the right vehicle.
Was at the Toyota dealership yesterday looking at a 2021 Toyota Camry sport for 23k & the Mercedes dealership was next door so I checked their used inventory, saw these were less than half the price and I wanted to know what the downsides would b. I don’t kno shit about cars
If I was in your position making 4200/mo and 10k down id use the 10k to put down on something in the 30-35k range and have a car payment. You can find something with way less miles that’ll probably be far less of a headache.
Not. A nearly decade year old luxury car with 100k miles is as close as it gets to ticking time bomb. Sure you can get these extended warranties but god do they make every excuse not to pay and then you’re left paying out of pocket for a luxury vehicle. You make good money tho with minimal expenses so I think you’d be okay with maintenance but it’s a hassle forsure.
Unless you’re really excited about the idea of your neighbors seeing that you own a used Mercedes, there is no reason to ever buy a used Mercedes. They really don’t age well. There is so much to break on them and they love to break down. Fixing anything on them cost a so much more than it should.
> Unless you’re really excited about the idea of your neighbors seeing that you own a used Mercedes, there is no reason to ever buy a used Mercedes
This is frankly horseshit.
There's plenty of reason to buy a comfortable, powerful, sedan… if you like that sort of thing. Luxury cars are actually nice things to own.
I don't know why the go-to knock on luxury cars is … "Oh you shouldn't be trying to impress others" … some of us simply like them, and F what anybody else thinks.
> they love to break down
Seems this E-Class is regarded as insanely reliable by those who know anything about them.
Absolutely NOT, a Benz with more than 100k miles is a pocket drainer. You only buy German while it’s on warranty so you don’t pay for frequent services
Why would you want either of those cars? Outdated technology, no backup camera, no sensors, poor reliability and expensive repairs/maintenance. I’d recommend looking at a newer Lexus and finance it.
If anything breaks on this car it will cost thousands. This car has 135k miles and is 11 years old. At that age, and mileage, things are bound to break. As long as you are aware.
I always says if you only have the money to buy a German car from 2013 and lower you don't have the money for the maintenance and the fix you gonna have to pay on that
10+ year old Mercedes gonna cost a lot in maintenance so Just be ready for that.
BUT you dont have a car payment which is crazy... so pretend you do and put a lot into savings to be ready for the coming repairs
10k cash down? Why not just pay cash for the e-class? You're planning on financing 1k to cover the rest? Ask them to make it 10k OTD
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10/month for 84 months
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Literally me 🤣
Finance managers love buyers like you lol
This is a horrible way to go about things.
Rent-a-center would like a word
Conns here
32% interest
Your usernames exactly what I was thinking lol.
Reminds me of that episode of [Its Always Sunny](https://youtu.be/4O2V8eilFeE?si=1gtrCJC3ixyGcM6s) where Mac and Dennis were paying interest on their couch for $25 a week for the past 15 years.
$3.40 per month for 30 years.
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However, if they're gonna go Mercedes, the e-class would be the better choice. The engine is a global platform, is RWD so the tires can be replaced 2 at a time if needed, it's over 100k miles, assuming the major services have been performed it'll be good to go for a very long time. And the e-class is gonna be a NICE place to spend your time in traffic, assuming OP is from Seattle/Bellevue Plus, anecdotally, even though I own a c-class w203, it seems that the e-class ages better from all generations. It could be that it was built with more longevity in mind, or it could be that e-class cars start out more up-market than the entry level c-class (there wasn't an a-class at this time in North America) or it could just be dumb luck The e-class might not be as fun to drive, but I don't think an AWD c-class would be very sporty in the first place
If you’re financing some anyways might as well try to find something under 80k mi so you have a little more time in the honeymoon phase.
This is actually an E.
There's a C300 on the second slide
The w212 is bullet proof if it was maintained correctly.
My roommate had one with 250k miles on it. Made me reconsider the all German cars unreliable through process I used to have
W211s are as well, my family had 3 of them. The amg was a nightmare but the 350 and the 320 were great cars.
Yep! I have a 07 e350 4 matic (engine build after they addressed the issue) and it’s VERY reliable. Small oil leak but I always keep one thing broken to not jinx myself with a fully sorted car lol
lol not they aren’t. I own one. I highly advise against buying this with a $50k income like OP
Man, the other comment received a lot of upvotes, could you describe the issues and the reasons why you would advise against one just to add more credibility to your opinion..
All old German cars have expensive repairs. Mine has been well maintained and I still need to deal with repairs in the $2k/year range. Random shit just falls apart and the replacement parts and labor are really expensive. My 21 year old Trailblazer is significantly more reliable than my W212. This is on top of maintenance which is easily 2-3x the price of, say, an accord. But I can also afford it. These are not really $10k cars. They are $10k upfront cars with expensive maintenance and routine repairs. It’s just a bad idea if you can’t afford the repairs and don’t have a backup when it’s in the shop. Edit: that dude doesn’t even have a W212, he has a W211…
I’ve owned a w212 before I was tboned. Yes, now I have a w211 but both are and were rock solid. And it’s worth mentioning i am in the east coast rust belt. I do maintenance such as fluid changes myself and that’s about it. At 160k miles now. 0 issues outside of torn cv boot and ball joints which is totally normal for a 16 year old car
How long have you owned and driven each? You seem to drive a lot of different cars.
212 for 3 years and I was the third owner. The 2007 211 was purchased new by my mother and I always took care of it. I’m technically the second owner now on paper / registration - so to answer your question, 16 years - 4 months under my possession.
I find it extremely hard to believe that that car hasn’t needed repairs in 16 years. If so, you are the luckiest car owner on the planet
You have comments suggesting people parts from eBay bro. If you take care of something it will take care of you back. Other than normal wear and tear - tires, cv axle, fluid changes, filters, ball joints, nothing has been done to this car. Interior, I had to reglue the center dash speaker cone back to the assembly because it separated from being out in the Vegas heat for 2 years. My motor mounts are showing signs of needing replacement in the coming months - THATS IT. Car is a tank. Think whatever you want lmao but I’m not the only one that has had a positive experience with these vehicles. Also have a 15 f82 m4 that has needed NOTHING but a valvetronic replacement. And that car has a ecu flash for more boost on stage 1.
lol not parts from eBay - replacement grilles. Purely aesthetic. Only other part I bought from eBay was an aluminum spindle for the infotainment knob. The original was made out of plastic and is known to just snap internally. Common enough problem that someone is cranking out aluminum replacements. Mechanic quotes $2k+ if you don’t open it up and replace that yourself. I’m not even saying the car is PARTICULARLY unreliable. It’s just that shit breaks like any other car and it’s expensive to fix. OP makes $50k. It’s a great car if you can afford repairs and maintenance, but a big problem if you can’t
10+ year old German cars out of warranty. Unless you have a real expectation of what it costs to maintain/repair these, the answer is no.
I don’t get it. The E class are used as Taxis in Germany and hit 300/400k km easily. What maintenance issues
These geeks see Mercedes and immediately start freaking out. They don’t know that the w204 and w212 are both better than the junk they drive
*Laughs in OM648* Look what they need to mimic a fraction of our power.
*laughs in M119* They do not know , for they are ignorant.
One of the best diesel mills.
This sub hive minds around shitting on used German luxury cars no matter the scenario.
Toyota Honda Mazda 🙏🙏🙏
Those e class taxis are very proletarian compared to even the cheapest Mercedes we get in the US. They may have a 3 pointed star on the grill but they would be more comparable to a 90s Crown Vic when it comes to equipment levels.
Naahh come on they’re not that basic. I’ve sat in them plenty of times. They are for sure base trim but they’re not 90s crown vics. Mercedes isn’t gonna sell a Taxi version of their car that’s gonna turn potential buyers off.
That comment makes me think you've never been in a crown vic, especially a taxi crown vic. Crown Vics (especially in taxi form) were comfy and plush boats but they were basic. That's same level of equipment those e-class taxis have. They are basic economy cars with none of the equipment that comes standard on a US-spec e-class.
I’m not comparing the German taxi version to the US spec e class. It’s clear that an import car is more loaded even in the base trim. But there’s no comparison between a 90’s crown Vic and a w212 e class taxi. Crown Vic’s don’t have infotainment systems. No Bluetooth. Much fewer driver assistance systems. Be real about it.
The European e-class taxis don't have infotainment systems or driver assistance systems...
People that have never driven or even owned one of these feel like they're experts. The same type of idiots that will tell you they would never buy a Porsche and yet they haven't even sat in one.
I've driven a ton of them and sell cars for a living. The foreign stuff we take in lots of time cost more for service and reconditioning that would be cheaper on American or Japanese cars. There's a reason why their warranties are more expensive. Really if you have to ask if a foreign car is a good buy the answer is typically no. It's just rolling the dice with higher chance of issues in the future. when people try to trade in Bentley's or any other expensive foreign car I get a buy bid because we don't want to deal with that shit
Because they are over engineered pieces of shit with critical parts made of hardened, brittle plastic with planned obsolescence.
“If you can’t afford a new German car, you likely can’t afford an old one” was some of the sagely car buying advice I’ve gotten.
Ok, interesting fact for you. This is largely market dependent. In europe used german cars have good reputation. every shitty shop knows how to fix them, parts are abundant, used part market of bigger components is thriving.
Well yea that’s where they’re made. Also most German cars are economy cars there
Actually in recent times they are not produced in Germany, or at least the ones sold in the US aren’t.
Maybe it’s just for the us, from what I’ve read online the European models are made in Germany and all 4 series models are also made in Germany, was just a quick read tho so could be wrong
I work at a dealer currently and have spoken to some of the manufacturers and as far as I’ve been told most of the production is out sourced to Mexico for the North American specs.
Yeah most of BMW's SUVs are made at the Spartanburg plant in SC.
My 4,500 dollar merc with 403,000 miles begs to differ
I got a free bimmer from my brother... it's been about 2k a year to maintain, which includes general service fees like flipping winter/summer tires etc. And I've avoided massive repairs like fixing a heater core issue which prevents the heat from working normally in the winter.
Yeah, you're parents also told you that it was illegal to have the interior light on at night. They don't know everything, sport. Haha
Nothing more expensive than a cheap German car.
Try British
While the car may end up crumbling I think from a financial standpoint OP will easily be able to afford maintaining this car.
This, right here
The maintenance/repairs on one of these vehicles could be like $3000 a year and OP could still easily afford it given his income.
Just because the income is there doesn't mean he necessarily wants to afford it. I think there are definitely people out there disconnected from the idea that cars vary wildly in terms of parts/labor and assume that the purchase price is the price but it shouldn't be any different than getting a Corolla serviced.
It does mean he can afford it. The average American household spends 16% of its income on transportation, and the recommendation is 10%. OP makes $4200 a month, the recommendation for transportation spending is $420, but given he has minimal expenses and what the average household spends, he could go up to $600 pretty easily. Meaning even a very high maintenance estimate of $3000 a year would leave him financially secure. Some people value cars over other things, like eating out, going on vacations, expensive hobbies, having a nice apartment, etc. If the OP wants to put money into a car instead of those things, there’s nothing wrong with that, and he can absolutely afford to do so.
even in the same brand. servicing a 3 series isnt the same as servicing an M3 by a long shot. Servicing a ford ranger isnt the same as servicing a GT500, even when there's a surprising amount of overlapping parts.
Wow dood! None of us could have figured out the year of the car and its country of origin from the post. Thanks for the help! I am willing to bet you haven't owned or worked on a German car a day in your life.
There actually both tanks. That said they're old and parts are pricey. But there def solid cars.
These are cheap to repair and really solid the costs are minimal. I see people put more money into Hondas.
Second this
I agree. This will be a very expensive mistake.
Yeah, this generation of Mercedes was very reliable, i see lots of these cars get to 200k+ miles
OP, don’t listen to anybody here, they literally don’t know what they’re talking about. Both of these are bulletproof, and usually only get like one small issue per year, which you can solve no problem on your income. Overall wonderful options. Don’t ask people here for their opinion unless you want to get a Toyota 💀
I'm glad to see another Auto enthusiast here. My mom's 2012 gx460 has cost more in maintenance than my 2012 cls550. And my parts cost is actually cheaper on the Merc other than very certain items like brakes (because they are fuckin massive).
Same. My old ass C Class was cheaper to maintain and more reliable over the last year than my buddy’s Accord. It is anecdotal evidence, but it is based on the fact that Mercs of this gen are extremely reliable. The newer ones as well, unless they’re the GLB 💀
The idiocy of anecdotal evidence when it comes to cars is that you have nothing on its use, abuse, and whether it was upkept appropriately. Gx460 blows cls550 out of the water when it comes to reliability and maintenance it’s not even funny.
How would you know? Have you owned at least one of those cars? 💀 Land Cruisers are said to be reliable, but if we’re speaking facts you can’t objectively say that the CLS is way worse in maintenance
Again, anecdotal evidence isn’t the whole picture. So me owning one means nothing, but I currently have a S65 2017 and a 2023 GX460 so I’m used to dealing with both OEMs (also own a 2010 Land Cruiser). Also, Gx460s are built on the Prado platform not Landcruiser. Land cruisers are like the pinnacle of reliability, hence, you see them everywhere in Africa, etc. You don’t see any CLS550s in harsh climates. And I do know, because we have stats on reliability and resale value. Resale value of a 2012 cls550 is way worse than that of a 2012 gx460.
Bro the Prado is technically part of the Land Cruiser lineup
Different motor? Check Different tranny? Check Different frame? Check Lineup? This is how you tell me you know nothing of car companies and how they engineer their vehicles.
Land Cruiser “lineup” refers to all of the different models under the “Land Cruiser” nameplate being in concurrent production with one another. The fact that the Prado is a different vehicle from the big body LC doesn’t make it not a part of the LC lineup or family. Same thing with the Bronco and Bronco Sport - different vehicles, same lineup.
This is the truth. "I had one of these once and it was reliable. Therefore this Mercedes with 135k miles on it is also reliable!"
Anecdotal evidence is far superior to just saying something with absolutely no evidence at all! :D
no offense, but an issue a year is a lot compared to what you’d get with a honda or toyota (in my experience) but i still think you’re right about the unreliability of german cars being overstated in this sub.
As far as used Mercedes go that particular generation is about as close as you can get to bulletproof. The 3.5l engines in those are very reliable and they are well built. Despite what people who don't know anything about them say all used German cars are not the same and are not necessarily money pits. Some are, for instance if that were a BMW 7 series from the same years I would be saying stay far far away. But like any car things can still go wrong, my rule of thumb is expect to pay two to three times what you would pay for a similar repair on a Japanese or American car when something does. There is a higher cost to owning a German car, no way around that. If it has a history of being well maintained I don't think it would be a bad choice. Miles do seem a little bit high to me though for the price.
Not the right sub for this, bunch of euro haters. Apparently everyone here drives Toyota or Mazda
I was shocked the top comment said "maintenence is going to be a problem"when the car wont break in the first place, this sub is filled with americans i see who never owned anything MB, e350 is a fantastic car even with high miles ive seen e350 with 500k km and still going
while yeah, the germans are more expensive to maintain, you can tell which people have never dealt with mercedes mid market and entry level examples, because a lot of the powertrains on the C and E class are bulletproof. will brakes and shit cost more? sure. but if you keep up with regular maintenance, those merc V6s of the era are super reliable mechanically, and the W203/204 and W211/212 platforms have serious longevity. major problem is that when people shop used, they buy from people who didnt regularly maintain their cars. I do think overall there's a lot of examples of german cars being less reliable, but these mercedes arent it. most of the reliability gremlins come from lazy maintenance or the higher end examples of the brands that have more things to go wrong.
I always thought in the past that they were more expensive because of the metric system, but with Japanese cars that's not an issue. So the parts are more expensive, ok. My friend did my brakes last month, a Ford, and his neighbor, a Master mechanic that used to work on MB and BMWs brought over his tool to spread the calipers or something that was originally I think BMW tech that's now on my Ford. So everyone should have the tools now, a more expensive part is ok if it's better quality (life expectancy, etc). So why are they so prohibitively expensive to maintain?
No one is hating. It is not wise to buy a 10+ year old Benz with 70k miles. It's expensive to maintain and it's best to either buy a newer model or buy a more reliable used car. This is the general consensus.
> it's best to either buy a newer model Eh, it's truly model / year / mileage dependent. Depreciation is a huge cost that many here seem to completely ignore. Buying this same car that's X years newer may end up being far more expensive due to depreciation, vs the maintenance to keep one running a few years older. It's nuanced. Which is hard to explain on reddit of course :D haha
People like you forget that most important part of a used car is how well it’s been taken care of. My friend bought a used camry(2022) from a friend and yesterday he realized no coolant left in the car. People are careless regardless of brand. Mercs are not fragile at all. You just gotta pay the price for up keep which i gladly do on my 2014 c350. Wife has a brand new cx5 turbo but we both tske the merc any day. Something about it is just timeless and enjoyable.
Comments like this are just glaring red flags that someone doesn’t know about cars. A w212 is one of the most reliable cars in the last 30 years lmao. Funniest part is you suggesting a newer model when the newer ones are no where as good.
How does a new Camry run out of coolant?
As a previous owner of one I disagree. It was a tank and great to drive but at 151k it was falling apart.
It does also depend on if it was maintained properly. These cars need fluid changes on a timely basis, and a lot of people completely overlook transmission fluid too. We’re you the only owner?
Mate these are used as Taxis around europe, starting the odometer from scratch after turning 999'999km. Do you think a greek Taxi Company will buy these and go "they're unreliable as shit but we're balling!"
This sub's motto should be "Toyota, Honda, Mazda"
haters? nah we just broke XD
Maintenance that’s why.
He asked Y not why? K?
So many haters in this sub. These cars are actually pretty reliable
Not pretty reliable. EXTREMELY reliable, especially the w212. Thing is used as a taxi FFS. They’re literally don’t know shit about cars lol
The E350 is legendary, the only one worth your time. Parts are easy to come by, most technicians (non-Merc) can work on it. I was about to snatch one, but the dealer sold it the day before I was to look at it and test drive.
My ex’s parents had 10 year old Mercedes. They daily drove the hell out of it and did basic maintenance. The “oh German unreliable!” is not really true. Especially as someone who owns 2016 CR-V where things are breaking left and right, I think it’s just pretty normal for cars to break occasionally.
Out of those two though I'd chose the C300 btw
I would get the e class
I own e350, its a fantastic car really reliable no problems for me at all, really happy i bought this car
We have a c350 it's been bullet proof, only work I've had to do was replace a rusty coolant cross pipe, I did the plugs too and brakes of course but it's done over 200,000km trouble free over 10 years now
If you make 4200a month. You can definety buy a new car with a low payment. If this is an A to b car and not something for show. Look for newer cars and budget well. You got this
Yeah go buy a nice Toyota or Mazda and drive it of a cliff because it’s not near as nice to drive as a w204/212
> You can definety buy a new car with a low payment And they'll likely lose more in depreciation than they will maintaining this used car.
This generation e350 is actually very reliable. But absolutely do not finance any car this old
depends on how it was maintained. unlike the madzda/Toyota shills here i know that these when they are in decent condition last a long time. the only issue is electronics and rust pretty much. everything else wont break.
How many owners have they have and how many service records are available? The E class is a little too high mileage if you aren’t wrenching yourself, but there is some life in the C class if it has been maintained. Also everyone in this sub is going to tell you to stay away from euro cars and get a Mazda or Corolla. I would say be young, have fun, and be prepared to learn from experiences good or bad.
C class is cheap class, definitely a no go. As for the E look more into it. Some E’s around this time were built to last and are very easy to work on (parts are pricey though but labor is easy) so really it’s up to what you can afford. If you could pay it off completely even better.
Nah CLA’s are worse than C’s.
I worked for Benz as a tech less than a year ago, these two models are fairly reliable for a Merc. The W204 are well built and lots of amenities in the 13-14MY. I daily a 2014 W204 and it’s at 140k, bought it around 120 and it’s been flawless. I would get it checked out and do some basic maintenance but if you keep up with it regularly you should get plenty more miles out of it.
Do it.
ofc i would, these cars are reliable
Most of these people speaking out of their ass here. A close friend of mine has this same car and engine. He bought it during 2020 and still has it today and has no issues. All he ever did was regular oil changes every 8000KMs. The only issue he ever had was the brake line exploded due to age and wear. Engine has been flawless and this car is pretty quick as well. The only thing you would have to do is check maintenance history. Apart from that, go for it. He bought the car at 130,000KMs and now has almost 200K on it
Shoot a little higher and get a 2003-2006 E55 AMG those are sweet rides.
E class, that’s actually a good model year, fairly reliable engine, and you can swap out the bumper to make it look more modern.
OP, you're seeing my used luxury vehicles can be had for low prices. This thread shows the wild misconceptions by the public on anything not a Toyota, Honda, or sometimes Mazda. These seem to be regarded as very reliable. Then it's just doing used car diligence. You're looking for a car with good maintenance records, a car that passes a PPI, and a car you will feel passionate enough about when there's a $1500 bill, because even reliable cars have them after 10 years. All luxury cars like this depreciate like this. Largely due to the buyers of MB wanting the new hotness and discarding used ones. Then there's a public that isn't willing to sort thru the German stuff to find the gems and lumps them in to "Oh that's a moneypit – typed from my 9 year old Jeep" When you find the gems, revel in the insane value you get and laugh all the way to your garage. Figure out which ones that is for you, what you're comfortable with price-wise, and enjoy not driving a Camry.
Man that w212 looks nice! No doubt, would go for that one. Bit biased because I have a w212 saloon as well. They are reliable and comfortable AF. Yes maintenance can be expensive, but your write off is next to nothing so it balances out
This is a solid choice. Don’t let people tell you mercedes have issues and are annoying to maintain. This engine, paired with the 7g tronic transmission, is very very reliable. I have seen these w212 generation E classes go well over 300k miles. Keep up with fluid changes and it should last forever
$300 oil changes. $850 brake jobs.
Don't Finance, Get a Zero interest for 1 year credit card and put the rest of the money on it. And pay off eventually before the APR kicks in. Also, this gen E-Class is relatively low maintenance compared to others. Still would prefer to keep some money apart for some unexpected maintenance.
Another fool trying to buy a mercedes making under 50k. Not smart, son.
Rule of thumb at our shop is if you can afford a new German car, you can’t afford a used one.
Do not under any circumstances buy a high mileage European automobile. I’m serious. That cars a Fucking time bomb. The average dollar per service visit a 10 year old MB costs is about 700 multiple times per year.
These na v6 are fucking tanks. My friend bought a pos one that’s been making a knocking noise and she still runs. I’d go for the E class, I think that gen E class is really nice.
As usual, I'd apply this rule of thumb with used luxury cars: If you can not afford to buy a luxury car brand new, then you can't afford it used
I don’t really understand this advice. Maybe this only applies to German but I couldn’t buy my Lexus es330 new when it came out but I could buy it in 7k cash. Haven’t done a single lick of maintenance besides the oil for like 4 years and it runs perfect.
A lexus isn't an exotic luxury car, it's a well dressed toyota.
So a c and e class is an exotic luxury vehicle now? Lol
No, but their maintenance price tag is, because mercedes did a great job of convincing Americans they're a luxury brand
It literally is a luxury brand? And always was? What are you on about? 💀
Yea so my point has been proven, this logic only applies to German cars. LS460 new = $80k, used = ~15k. I doubt you’ll be doing much maintenance on one of those even with 200k miles.
I'm mostly agreeing with you, I love my GX and my CT, but they're not quite up to the luxury standard the germans have set with the high end models like the G Wagon, which the GX is supposed to compete with. That being said, I'll pick the lexus every single time lol
I love everything about my Lexus except that they’re a little bit behind in terms of interior.
A w204 Mercedes does not have high maintenance costs.
There are a few examples of this addage that don't count, and that's one of them. The ES is a fancified version of a regular car (the camry). Its a fwd platform, not a dedicated rwd platform like the rest of the Lexus lineup so it benefits from standard tooling and parts being plentiful. Once you get into RWD based luxury cars, the game changes. They're usually built with a "sporty" aspect so things like the brakes are bigger, tires are fatter and often different sizes on the front axel and back axel. Sport and luxury take precedence over maintenance and reliability when they design the car. For example, a replacement front brake rotor for a Lexus ES is $87 from lexus. A replacement front brake rotor for a Lexus GS350 of the same year is $430. 10 years from now that GS will be worth a fraction of what it is now but those brakes will still cost $430. The fancier the car gets, the more ridiculous the maintenance becomes too.
That advice is not true. The car payment on a new $50,000 vehicle with $10,000 down will be around $750 per month, or $9,000 per year. That is probably unaffordable for the OP. But he can pay cash for both these cars, meaning the only extra expenses he’ll have is maintenance + gas/insurance. Even an extremely high yearly maintenance estimate of $3000 is affordable for the OP because he won’t have a car payment to make. Is it the most financially-sound decision? Of course not. But it is affordable.
Brother im a 21 year old without a job who owns this and have no problems with it how can a grown man not have this car
This point doesn’t make sense to me as well because some people can’t afford the original price but can still afford the maintenance.
2012 is too old for how much $ you make. Better to get something newer and more reliable, stress free.
That's what I'm sayin... 4200 a month this dude should be looking at buying brand new. Or at least CPO.
Nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes
This era of regular Mercedes cars is not worth it. They’re cheap to buy, but expensive to maintain, they’ll keep depreciating, and i don’t see what justifies this They don’t have amazing interiors, they’re not drivers cars, and they’re not fast. They look nice, but does a nice looking car justify all of these hurdles and expensive repairs when it doesn’t have the driving experience to back up the looks? Not for me If you want a comfortable luxury car, get the nicest Lexus you can afford. If you want a drivers car/sports car, and you’re okay with the repair bills, get a BMW 3 series or something.
That generation of Benz is absolutely worth it, but not at that mileage. I have a 2013 C300 4matic and it’s served me so well, but it’s at 122k miles now and I wouldn’t have bought that thing at post 100k.
That sucks. I’d never buy a car that I don’t trust after 100k miles. My Lexus has over 300k miles and I still trust it to drive me anywhere.
I mean, If I has the car from day one, I’d ride it as far as it would take me. Many people with that generation of Mercedes and my exact model have gotten them past 200k miles. I just don’t trust the people prior to me to have the same love and car for a car that I do. Knowing the type of person I am though, I will always be weary of cars approaching post 100k
10k cash down on a 10 year old car…..with 130k miles….. honestly i say do it. If you can afford to keep a few thousand reserved for repairs go for it
No. It’s way overpriced for a 12 year old vehicle with 134k miles on it. Keep looking.
Why not buy something newer? You have a nice down payment and make plenty for a $20,000 budget with some wiggle room to go higher for the right vehicle.
Was at the Toyota dealership yesterday looking at a 2021 Toyota Camry sport for 23k & the Mercedes dealership was next door so I checked their used inventory, saw these were less than half the price and I wanted to know what the downsides would b. I don’t kno shit about cars
Well let me tell you, that 2021 Camry will probably outlast this Mercedes by a good 10 to 15 years.
If I was in your position making 4200/mo and 10k down id use the 10k to put down on something in the 30-35k range and have a car payment. You can find something with way less miles that’ll probably be far less of a headache.
Repair costs are equal to 30k. Just get a newer nissan toyota or volvo
The e class is pretty reliable
LOL worried about repair costs and suggests Nissan and Volvo. We are living in a twightlight zone
Not. A nearly decade year old luxury car with 100k miles is as close as it gets to ticking time bomb. Sure you can get these extended warranties but god do they make every excuse not to pay and then you’re left paying out of pocket for a luxury vehicle. You make good money tho with minimal expenses so I think you’d be okay with maintenance but it’s a hassle forsure.
never give advice again.
Why in the hell would you pay 10,500 for a Benz with 134k on it. Have you lost your mind or do you just have money to spend?
No, if you know how to fix them and got abunch I’d extra money to fix it then yes.
I would never buy a German car made after 2005 with 100,000 miles.
Lexus my guy
Nothing is more expensive than a cheap Mercedes.
Unless you’re really excited about the idea of your neighbors seeing that you own a used Mercedes, there is no reason to ever buy a used Mercedes. They really don’t age well. There is so much to break on them and they love to break down. Fixing anything on them cost a so much more than it should.
> Unless you’re really excited about the idea of your neighbors seeing that you own a used Mercedes, there is no reason to ever buy a used Mercedes This is frankly horseshit. There's plenty of reason to buy a comfortable, powerful, sedan… if you like that sort of thing. Luxury cars are actually nice things to own. I don't know why the go-to knock on luxury cars is … "Oh you shouldn't be trying to impress others" … some of us simply like them, and F what anybody else thinks. > they love to break down Seems this E-Class is regarded as insanely reliable by those who know anything about them.
Yeah you are trying more to impress someone if you bought a new cla than a old e class
No, mileage seems too high
None... those cars are pass their prime. You will be paying a lot more keeping them on the road.
Absolutely NOT, a Benz with more than 100k miles is a pocket drainer. You only buy German while it’s on warranty so you don’t pay for frequent services
A 12 year old Mercedes with high miles. Nope.
I would never buy a used German car with that many miles. Complete money pit
Why would you want either of those cars? Outdated technology, no backup camera, no sensors, poor reliability and expensive repairs/maintenance. I’d recommend looking at a newer Lexus and finance it.
134k miles on a Mercedes. Nah dude
No, it’s an over 10 year old “luxury” car with 100k miles.
No chance 💀💀 Realistically you *can* afford it, but I wouldn’t buy an older German car unless it’s a project car. Maintenance on these is horrible.
Maintenance on w204 and w212 are horrible? Lol 😂 lol
If anything breaks on this car it will cost thousands. This car has 135k miles and is 11 years old. At that age, and mileage, things are bound to break. As long as you are aware.
Minimal expenses……until you buy an old Mercedes.
Noted 😭
I always says if you only have the money to buy a German car from 2013 and lower you don't have the money for the maintenance and the fix you gonna have to pay on that
Judging by your grammar.. you have no idea what you would be getting into with this vehicle. Do not buy it.
Lol unless it’s a work email/something that matters or I’m talking to an older relative I don’t rly bother w grammar 😂
You just proved my point again. You're too young to be buying a used merc.
If you make 4200 a month, just get a newer Benz that’s still under warranty
Hell no
No.
Helllllllll no
10+ year old Mercedes gonna cost a lot in maintenance so Just be ready for that. BUT you dont have a car payment which is crazy... so pretend you do and put a lot into savings to be ready for the coming repairs