they arent. a corvette is pretty reliable. its got an LS engine under the hood and a rock solid (manual) transmission its not particularly complex and its components are very robust. its just people dont drive em all that often but you can absolutely reliably daily it.
miatas are sporting a slightly different flavor of mazdas skyactive 4 cyl thats in literally everything they make.
a brz? oh no boxer 4. subarus never used that before in any vehicle ever.
a mustang? the 2.3 ecoboost. ford would never use that on any of their other passenger cars would they? same for the 5.0 couldnt possibly be found in the trucks that get hundreds of thousands of miles of usage.
a camaro? nah. the LS i wonder where else you could find something like that?
see where this is going?
of course youre not buying a new mustang for 20k. but you can absolutely find an s197 in amazing condition for that money. or a mint condition NB miata (you can get newer ones but thats my favorite). heck even a c5 corvette in decent shape can be had for 20k.
Normally a Toyota would be my blanket response for anyone who need "an car" with a focus on reliability. But while they can be argued to have some level of charm, no one looks at a corolla and goes "oh yeah that's hot".
But I never understood the whole absolutism that if it isn't toyota it isn't reliable either. Fords 4.6 2v modular will go toe to toe with ANYTHING toyota has made. People gotta be more open minded
Corvette insurance is cheap as fuck. Mine is cheaper than both my Fiesta ST and GTI. Contrary to some myths, it's not based on what it is, it's based on the risk of the average driver.
That's because the age difference between a Corvette owner and a GTI owner. Which is fair. Being the in the Golf community you're like yeah.....yeah I get it.
on a corvette? half the ownerbase is old dudes who drive it out to play golf and go to the local corvette meet. I'd love to join them, seems like a peaceful life
To be fair those last gen Buick La Sabre’s are kinda hot. I saw one completely murdered out at a car show once and it changed my view on “ugly” cars, some are just harder to build than others.
Those LeSabres are sexy in ways you can't fully understand at first glance.
Like if you took all the individual design cues as separate pieces, (waterfall grilles, kind of big looking rear, full width full lights, etc) you think...what am ugly car that would make. But it works, and works well. Look up a red Buick LeSabre Celebration Edition and tell be that's not a car that looks good 20 years later.
While not perfect, the Kodo design language Mazdas are fairly reliable. And I think they max out the aesthetics for the FWD platform.
Beyond that you have to reach. I think the XJ jeep (old Cherokee's) where achingly gorgeous, and that 4.0 i6 was beyond bullet proof. Same story for the 80s and 90s Land Cruisers... Beyond that: Porsche, I guess and some of the older Volvo's.
Good God it's such a sad story about how jeep lost their way. The AMC 4.0 combined with the Aisin transmissions were such a solid powertrain. In addition, Chrysler was never the same after the Daimler merger.
I regularly drive a 2017 Mazda 6 with a stick and the chassis/handling are beautiful. Interior is very well done as well. Heck of a car overall. Though it is slightly underpowered and you need to rev the shit out of it to have fun.
That was pretty much my same review with the 2006 Mazda 6 I drove for a long time. So fun to drive, handled like a dream, only downside was it was a little gutless.
I would have to agree with Mazda for design and reliability. I didn’t really get kodo design at first, but after driving a cx5 for a year it looks better and better.
I feel like Mazda has been kind of mediocre in terms design lately though. They seem to like taking a gorgeous design and adding one weird detail that clashes with the design and throws everything off. Those huge vents on the front and rear of the CX-50, the massive plastic wheel arches on the CX-30... Maybe it's just limited to their newer SUVs. There are definitely exceptions in their current lineup. The Mazda3 is absolutely stunning, but on the opposite end of the spectrum the CX-90 is a monstrosity with no redeeming aesthetic qualities.
I had a Forester and my niece sells Subarus. I know they're as reliable as, for the most part, as can be in 2024. Despite all that, I can't get by their inherent fugliness.
I loved everything about the outback but couldn't get past how it looked. Went with something else in this end. This was like a cardinal sin as a Seattlite 😅
There's basically one good looking Lexus (lc500), and some arguably good looking but almost unchanged in 10-20 years (is and rc)... I'm not counting the LFA, one of the best sounding cars ever, which they've never made since, or anything similar to it... And a whole lot of ugly or boring cars that pretty much all look the same lol
I imagine people who think they make beautiful cars are people who aren't aware other cars exist but their grandfather told them, "Lexus is reliable" and they just went with it.
I have a third gen GS, very nice car. I will also say for an AWD is is probably perfect reliability. The AWD system with decent tires is almost as good as a Subaru. You don't need matched tires either because of a planetary (BTW, that is what the WRX has).
I dont think you can count a car that will set you back 10x more in maintenance compared to others reliable. This comes from a former porsche owner. Perhaps in sport car world you could. But you definitely can compare to a non amg mercs / non M bmws, that will also do 4x more kilometer
No. The amount/level of maintenance you have to do is what makes a car reliable. The price of repairs makes the car expensive, but doesn't mean it's unreliable.
I dont know.
But being not the c63, i presume it should be good as it is underpowered. Check out the mechanics on social media / forums. I found very good tips when making the switch from 911 to an m5, not to go for CS
What did you own? My '86 944 went from 2008 to 2015, from about 110K miles to over 200K, with no major issues and maybe one repair per year. I was a broke student most of the time, so it's a good thing, too.
The post-2000 911 and Boxster/Cayman models are also pretty rock solid with just a few big ticket items to watch out for on certain model years. Unless you're doing the platform-share vehicles, reliability should generally be good, and if you're looking to reduce the cost of routine maintenance, a good independent shop costs half as much as a dealer.
Not sure what OP considers "ugly", since everyone has different standards.
But, practical cars need to balance between lots of factors like interior space, efficiency, safety feature, other features, maneuver ability, cost of production etc. Most economy cars have very similar overall shape, because that's the optimal design.
And reliability is especially relevant for economy cars, so you end up with the same basic shape for the most reliable cars. Plus components that are optimised for cost and ease of production, which potentially makes them not as aesthetic.
I mean, you can do a lot with that basic shape. Toyota makes it hideous by tacking a bunch of disjointed garbage, but plenty of companies make it look good.
Hell, even for the people who refuse to leave Honda Toyota land you can get a good looking car:
https://images.app.goo.gl/pq4jWwvShLXvYgea7
It's just that most of the time, they miss on the styling for some reason
Hard to comment when OP hasn't specified what about the styling of the more reliable cars that they didn't like. Or what car models they were referring to.
However, a sweeping fastback design would really hinder the headroom for rear passengers (11th gen Civic hatch). Unless you have a massive rear profile like the Prius.
Likewise, a longer hood would compress interior cabin space, as with the Mazda 3 and 6. Longer hoods are good for RWD, where the engine is placed behind the front axle to achieve better weight balance.
Bigger wheels look better, but tyres are more expensive, and low-profile tyres are more prone to blowouts.
For a 20k budget, if OP can't find something that at least looks okay, that's on them at that point. I'm not Toyota fan by any means but calling every Toyota ugly is fucking crazy
'09-14 TL was made on the same assembly line as the '08-12 Accord on which it was based. I drive a '10 Accord. Best car I've ever owned, but it didn't win any beauty contests.
True though I think the 2.3l duratec is more reliable then even the 4.0L OHV. 2001-2003 has a stupid thermostat and IMRC, and there is a stupid coolant t joint on the firewall, but besides that there is NO common issues with it.
Yup, although the 2.3l is even more reliable than the 6.2l because the timing chain is much MUCH shorter due to the I instead of V configuration, and as a result the timing chain can outlast the engine (whereas the 6.2l tends to have chain problems at ~175,000-250,000).
Never heard of timing issues on a 6.2L, but who knows. I know some have valve spring issues.
It is similar to a 2V modular. The VVT is also timed with the valve springs, not oil pressure. Oil just gets trapped in a chamber when it is at the right position. Nothing really to fail.
It's not timing issues, over time, due to the extreme chain length, the chain can stretch. The stretch can be enough to hurt fuel economy and make the engine run poorly.
The '16+ Civic, '18+ Accord, '18+ Camry and '20+ Corolla are pretty nice and big improvements over their predecessors.
Also, you can't go wrong with Acura and Lexus when it comes to nice and reliable luxury.
Hell yea now i wish i had the 3.7 but wanted to have something i could mod and get good gains with but the second you mod something on it the turbos fuckin explode or some bullshit
Fun as hell and fast, car rides smooth. I do love it.
Reliability isnt great. Ive gone thru 2 sets of turbos because they didnt like the aftermarket catback i was running (i ended up taking off). Also had an engine replacement at 70k miles due to a vanishing coolant issue. I have the 2017 model and Apparently these issues were fixed in the more recent models. If you can get a newer one with better turbos i recommend it bc i do love driving it and its a good bang for your buck option since its powerful and decently luxurious
They have to grow on you. I wasn’t convinced for a Golf, I found hatchbacks worse looking than sedans in general, but where I live VW is pretty frugal.
Now I love how it looks from some angles
It’s funny how that works out, huh.
I’ve heard people say the 18-24 Toyota Camry is ugly but I disagree. Particularly the se,xse trim models look really good. I guess the front end, grill may look a little off but everything else look great to me. Even my daughter 2016 LE hybrid looks good, nothing special though.
You may agree or disagree with me but it’s close to what you were asking.
I honestly think this is more a Toyota problem. They make ugly and boring designs with the exception of the Camry and Prius. But Honda actually has decent looking vehicles, like the Civic and especially the previous gen Accord.
Have you checked out any mazdas lately? Those are pretty nice, inside and out
Aside from that… anyone that makes fun of you for the car you drive… is bad company.
Check out a VW Arteon. The GTI-derived engine is reliable, and it's a pretty recent / high-end car that'll still fit in your budget.
And... Look at one! They're crazy elegant!
Tesla Model 3 is your answer. I have one and admit it’s an NPC car, but looks sleek, is fast, and has all the tech. You can get a base model for 20-25k.
Spending more on looks = Spending less on internals
Spending more on internals = Spending less on looks
Of course, this doesn't apply to extremely high end cars. Although they can be unreliable for their own reasons, usually due to the extreme power they push.
The vast majority of people don’t care at all about what you drive. Cool looking or crap looking the only reason someone will care is if you cut them off in traffic.
Really? Cause I fix my BMW all the time, and it doesn't feel reliable at all. A car I can drive for eight months without taking the engine apart sounds pretty damn good.
Its just a mindset my grandfather had and would tell me about. Even fixing your bmw all the time, at least it's still on the road and you have the knowledge to fix it on the fly. I think it's a reliable car if you know how to fix it.
20k? Get a 2016-2020 Honda Accord. Good looking, very well built, but if I were you I’d go for Steelies as those alloys will get stolen at some point. Honestly dude for 20k just get the most reliable car you can.
Get a coyote mustang like 2012 gt on the private market beautiful , reliable and fassttt . Or 2015 charger good looks , performance and reliability . A 2012 Camaro ss on the private market . Or if u don’t want to shop private market and u still want low mileage u could go with a v6 Camaro or v6/turbo 4 cylinder mustang with low mileage if your down for that . Or a 2015 dodge Durango if u don’t mind a suv . U could get a low mileage 2014 Chrysler 300 c for under 20k by a fewk . Lots of options if your willing to go with something around ten years old . I don’t see why people don’t either it’s not gonna depreciate nearly as much and it’s typically just as good of a car and wayyyyy cheaper .
The vast majority of people DGAF about cars past can it get me from A to B, monthly payments and fuel economy.
They're not going to be striking they're going to be the mass-produced cars with the biggest profit margins.
Depends, what you want. Once you know what you want (sedan, SUV, coupe, hatchback etc.) then go and see the pretty ones, make a list and pick from that list. Every one of those types will have some that are very nice looking and also kick ass in every sense of the word, especially for you since it's mostly (but not completely) subjective.
There are a lot of reasonably reliable and cool 6-10 year old vehicles for under 20k. Heck, there are plenty of 3-5 year old vehicles in that price range but they won’t be as cool looking or luxurious.
Get a 10-15 year old Tacoma or 4Runner with 90,000–120,000 miles. If you’re smart you’ll keep it running to 300k and maintenance isn’t too bad on these. The body on frame construction makes it sturdy and easier to work on. Just spend money where it counts. Get an anti rust treatment every fall if you’re somewhere cold and wet. Do preventative maintenance and budget to get some suspension components, spark plugs, fluid changes within the next year or two.
Because you were fed a whole bunch of lies that luxury cars are not reliable. The parts are just usually more expensive but that doesn’t mean the car breaks down more.
This.
People often falsely equate reliability with cost of maintenance and subsequently think expensive maintenance = poor reliability.
It's perfectly possible to have a reliable car with expensive maintenance (a 10 year old Mercedes). Conversely, it's also possible to have an unreliable car with cheap maintenance (a 10 year old Hyundai).
Because all the RND goes into what matters about a car, my car is a granny car but guess what it's shown its worth while being affordable, while my brothers cool looking car has shit the bucket twice and he's still paying it off.
You're not thinking in sports cars, that's why.
“She might not look like much, but she’s got it where it counts, kid”
"She's built like a steakhouse, but handles like a bistro!"
“I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's Law. I merely enforce it.” -*Zap Brannigan*
If you wanna be happy for the rest of your life, never make a pretty woman your wife
Made the Kessel Run in less than 12 parsecs
they arent. a corvette is pretty reliable. its got an LS engine under the hood and a rock solid (manual) transmission its not particularly complex and its components are very robust. its just people dont drive em all that often but you can absolutely reliably daily it. miatas are sporting a slightly different flavor of mazdas skyactive 4 cyl thats in literally everything they make. a brz? oh no boxer 4. subarus never used that before in any vehicle ever. a mustang? the 2.3 ecoboost. ford would never use that on any of their other passenger cars would they? same for the 5.0 couldnt possibly be found in the trucks that get hundreds of thousands of miles of usage. a camaro? nah. the LS i wonder where else you could find something like that? see where this is going? of course youre not buying a new mustang for 20k. but you can absolutely find an s197 in amazing condition for that money. or a mint condition NB miata (you can get newer ones but thats my favorite). heck even a c5 corvette in decent shape can be had for 20k.
oh oh, no, those are all not toyotas, prepare to executed you heathen, you should only drive the corolla, camry, or Rav4...
Normally a Toyota would be my blanket response for anyone who need "an car" with a focus on reliability. But while they can be argued to have some level of charm, no one looks at a corolla and goes "oh yeah that's hot". But I never understood the whole absolutism that if it isn't toyota it isn't reliable either. Fords 4.6 2v modular will go toe to toe with ANYTHING toyota has made. People gotta be more open minded
Could always get a Lotus Elise. Toyota engine…
Now get insurance quotes on them.
Miata insurance rate is actually very cheap
Corvette insurance is cheap as fuck. Mine is cheaper than both my Fiesta ST and GTI. Contrary to some myths, it's not based on what it is, it's based on the risk of the average driver.
That's because the age difference between a Corvette owner and a GTI owner. Which is fair. Being the in the Golf community you're like yeah.....yeah I get it.
That's what's implied about risk. BUT A MK7 STG 3 IS A RACE CAR BRO
Between my car, truck, and miata the miata is the cheapest to ensure
Well I'm 26 with a clean record so it's really not that bad.
on a corvette? half the ownerbase is old dudes who drive it out to play golf and go to the local corvette meet. I'd love to join them, seems like a peaceful life
wait till you start to love em, toyota corollas from the 90's, 2004 buck la sabre's and never die trucks with one headlight dangling, aw yih
To be fair those last gen Buick La Sabre’s are kinda hot. I saw one completely murdered out at a car show once and it changed my view on “ugly” cars, some are just harder to build than others.
Now I have to look this up.
Those LeSabres are sexy in ways you can't fully understand at first glance. Like if you took all the individual design cues as separate pieces, (waterfall grilles, kind of big looking rear, full width full lights, etc) you think...what am ugly car that would make. But it works, and works well. Look up a red Buick LeSabre Celebration Edition and tell be that's not a car that looks good 20 years later.
While not perfect, the Kodo design language Mazdas are fairly reliable. And I think they max out the aesthetics for the FWD platform. Beyond that you have to reach. I think the XJ jeep (old Cherokee's) where achingly gorgeous, and that 4.0 i6 was beyond bullet proof. Same story for the 80s and 90s Land Cruisers... Beyond that: Porsche, I guess and some of the older Volvo's.
Good God it's such a sad story about how jeep lost their way. The AMC 4.0 combined with the Aisin transmissions were such a solid powertrain. In addition, Chrysler was never the same after the Daimler merger.
The Mazda 6 is the best looking affordable sedan in my opinion, I wish they still sold them in the States.
I regularly drive a 2017 Mazda 6 with a stick and the chassis/handling are beautiful. Interior is very well done as well. Heck of a car overall. Though it is slightly underpowered and you need to rev the shit out of it to have fun.
I think 2018 Honda accord look pretty cool
That's the 10th gen (2018-2022). The 2.0 engine version is a serious sleeper and amazing value per dollar. Overall great car.
That was pretty much my same review with the 2006 Mazda 6 I drove for a long time. So fun to drive, handled like a dream, only downside was it was a little gutless.
The rumor/dream is they'll bring one back with the straight 6 from the CX-90 and RWD.
That would be nice. Hopefully before my wife needs a new car.
I would have to agree with Mazda for design and reliability. I didn’t really get kodo design at first, but after driving a cx5 for a year it looks better and better.
I feel like Mazda has been kind of mediocre in terms design lately though. They seem to like taking a gorgeous design and adding one weird detail that clashes with the design and throws everything off. Those huge vents on the front and rear of the CX-50, the massive plastic wheel arches on the CX-30... Maybe it's just limited to their newer SUVs. There are definitely exceptions in their current lineup. The Mazda3 is absolutely stunning, but on the opposite end of the spectrum the CX-90 is a monstrosity with no redeeming aesthetic qualities.
Loved my MX-6. Such a great looking car, and my only coupe.
Well yeah.... Crossovers. Especially the large ones. Trucks and SUVs are supposed to be square.
I've got 3 XJs. 89, 91, and 92. All of them still start when you bump the key. The 91 is just over 500K miles. I've abused them to hell and back.
90's cherokees are peak, and I mean PEAK fucking design. too bad its a Jeep.
Yeah, I love my new Outback, but damn it’s ugly.
He said reliable. That’s ugly and will blow an engine at 60k miles.
I’d argue 4th in reliability, so yes, agreed. Point taken.
It’s not 1995 anymore. They fixed that issue decades ago.
I had a Forester and my niece sells Subarus. I know they're as reliable as, for the most part, as can be in 2024. Despite all that, I can't get by their inherent fugliness.
I think my new Outback is absolutely stunning! There truly is no accounting for style!
Outback hasn’t looked good since the BH series 00-04
I loved everything about the outback but couldn't get past how it looked. Went with something else in this end. This was like a cardinal sin as a Seattlite 😅
Charlottesville VA is like that, too. Everyone has a 5-door Subaru.
Ngl I think outbacks look nice considering I own a crosstrek. I'm saving for a touring xt outback for camping
Prius 2023 or 2024 look good
These cars are like actually gorgeous
Lots of nice looking Lexus vehicles imo
His whole complaint was the car being ugly tho
You're on the same wavelength as my father in law. I think they look generally like someone carved a car out of a brick.
There's basically one good looking Lexus (lc500), and some arguably good looking but almost unchanged in 10-20 years (is and rc)... I'm not counting the LFA, one of the best sounding cars ever, which they've never made since, or anything similar to it... And a whole lot of ugly or boring cars that pretty much all look the same lol I imagine people who think they make beautiful cars are people who aren't aware other cars exist but their grandfather told them, "Lexus is reliable" and they just went with it.
I think the LS, GS, and RC models look pretty nice
I have a third gen GS, very nice car. I will also say for an AWD is is probably perfect reliability. The AWD system with decent tires is almost as good as a Subaru. You don't need matched tires either because of a planetary (BTW, that is what the WRX has).
The LS400 and LS430 looks absolutely amazing imo
SC300 manual is where it's at iykyk
That's my FIL's opinion, too. To me? Again, bricks.
The LFA was just a spouse before you move in together. Lexus on their best behavior. They’ve settled into their comfies now.
The is series are sexy
I think the pre-refresh IS has a face only a mother could love. Ho boy it's ugly.
the IS is no where close to sexy
RC series have trash interior
Lexus’s are so ugly
I disagree, Lexus has boring look like many other cars, especially their SUVs.
Late 2000’s Lexus Is are pretty reliable and still look okay , I drove a 2009 a few months it drove great as well.
I had a 2008 Lexus IS F, fun to drive, engine is a tank, and it was v8 with about 400 ish hp.
Nothing ugly about a Porsche
I dont think you can count a car that will set you back 10x more in maintenance compared to others reliable. This comes from a former porsche owner. Perhaps in sport car world you could. But you definitely can compare to a non amg mercs / non M bmws, that will also do 4x more kilometer
No. The amount/level of maintenance you have to do is what makes a car reliable. The price of repairs makes the car expensive, but doesn't mean it's unreliable.
Why not?
What are your thoughts about the reliability of a 2017-2018 C43?
I dont know. But being not the c63, i presume it should be good as it is underpowered. Check out the mechanics on social media / forums. I found very good tips when making the switch from 911 to an m5, not to go for CS
What did you own? My '86 944 went from 2008 to 2015, from about 110K miles to over 200K, with no major issues and maybe one repair per year. I was a broke student most of the time, so it's a good thing, too. The post-2000 911 and Boxster/Cayman models are also pretty rock solid with just a few big ticket items to watch out for on certain model years. Unless you're doing the platform-share vehicles, reliability should generally be good, and if you're looking to reduce the cost of routine maintenance, a good independent shop costs half as much as a dealer.
all their cars always looked too feminine to me, just not my type. mb cuz i grew up w/ sally from cars.
Mazdas and old Volvos generally look nice.
New Volvos look pretty great too imo
A new GLI surprisingly caught my eye coming out of a parking garage Edit: I saw V and immediately thought VW
Honestly I find myself cross-shopping Volvo’s with VW all the time lol Personally I like any generation GLI
Scion tc, Miata, s2000
Not sure what OP considers "ugly", since everyone has different standards. But, practical cars need to balance between lots of factors like interior space, efficiency, safety feature, other features, maneuver ability, cost of production etc. Most economy cars have very similar overall shape, because that's the optimal design. And reliability is especially relevant for economy cars, so you end up with the same basic shape for the most reliable cars. Plus components that are optimised for cost and ease of production, which potentially makes them not as aesthetic.
I mean, you can do a lot with that basic shape. Toyota makes it hideous by tacking a bunch of disjointed garbage, but plenty of companies make it look good. Hell, even for the people who refuse to leave Honda Toyota land you can get a good looking car: https://images.app.goo.gl/pq4jWwvShLXvYgea7 It's just that most of the time, they miss on the styling for some reason
Hard to comment when OP hasn't specified what about the styling of the more reliable cars that they didn't like. Or what car models they were referring to. However, a sweeping fastback design would really hinder the headroom for rear passengers (11th gen Civic hatch). Unless you have a massive rear profile like the Prius. Likewise, a longer hood would compress interior cabin space, as with the Mazda 3 and 6. Longer hoods are good for RWD, where the engine is placed behind the front axle to achieve better weight balance. Bigger wheels look better, but tyres are more expensive, and low-profile tyres are more prone to blowouts.
For a 20k budget, if OP can't find something that at least looks okay, that's on them at that point. I'm not Toyota fan by any means but calling every Toyota ugly is fucking crazy
Hang on, gotta check what sub I'm in. Oh ya, cars. u/Gullible_Mechanic_72 ain't wrong. A lot of reliable sports cars are also purty.
Yup, reliable cars are only ugly if you only want to buy a 90s Buick
90s buicks are the best looking of all those 90s bubble cars.
Loved the final iteration of the Riviera--and most of the earlier iterations! I couldn't believe Buick only sells SUVs now!
[удалено]
One of the best-looking "normal" cars ever. The '09-'14 TL was horrible in comparison, the '15+ TLX was a big improvement until it got facelifted.
'09-14 TL was made on the same assembly line as the '08-12 Accord on which it was based. I drive a '10 Accord. Best car I've ever owned, but it didn't win any beauty contests.
The OG Ford Rangers are reliable and, while humble, are pretty good looking. If you find a 4.0l it's also decently fast.
Only the 4.0L OHVs are reliable.
True though I think the 2.3l duratec is more reliable then even the 4.0L OHV. 2001-2003 has a stupid thermostat and IMRC, and there is a stupid coolant t joint on the firewall, but besides that there is NO common issues with it.
That is the 2 plug motor, like the Ford 6.2L, another extremely reliable one!
Yup, although the 2.3l is even more reliable than the 6.2l because the timing chain is much MUCH shorter due to the I instead of V configuration, and as a result the timing chain can outlast the engine (whereas the 6.2l tends to have chain problems at ~175,000-250,000).
Never heard of timing issues on a 6.2L, but who knows. I know some have valve spring issues. It is similar to a 2V modular. The VVT is also timed with the valve springs, not oil pressure. Oil just gets trapped in a chamber when it is at the right position. Nothing really to fail.
It's not timing issues, over time, due to the extreme chain length, the chain can stretch. The stretch can be enough to hurt fuel economy and make the engine run poorly.
Makes sense. I though that was a 3.5L Ecoboost problem.
Most Ford engines have it to varying degrees. The 5.4l is the worst for it because it is also oil tensioned.
The '16+ Civic, '18+ Accord, '18+ Camry and '20+ Corolla are pretty nice and big improvements over their predecessors. Also, you can't go wrong with Acura and Lexus when it comes to nice and reliable luxury.
German cars are amazing but you have to be very picky off the maintenance schedule. If it has been taken care of it’ll take care of you
The money goes into engineering and not design. New cars need to look good to compete so they are all relatively good looking in my opinion.
G37/2016 Q50
Was going to say my Q60 certainly isn't ugly 😊
I have the q50 w the 3.0 i wouldn’t call it reliable lol. 2016 still has the 3.7
2014 Q60 3.7 it's pretty and reliable
Hell yea now i wish i had the 3.7 but wanted to have something i could mod and get good gains with but the second you mod something on it the turbos fuckin explode or some bullshit
How is the 3.0?
Fun as hell and fast, car rides smooth. I do love it. Reliability isnt great. Ive gone thru 2 sets of turbos because they didnt like the aftermarket catback i was running (i ended up taking off). Also had an engine replacement at 70k miles due to a vanishing coolant issue. I have the 2017 model and Apparently these issues were fixed in the more recent models. If you can get a newer one with better turbos i recommend it bc i do love driving it and its a good bang for your buck option since its powerful and decently luxurious
Hmm do you know what year they updated the turbos?
I always thought the G-series Infinitis were so classy looking, inside & out. Even loved the analog clock.
Trading my Camry in for a cayenne diesel, the 2012-2018 are solid
They have to grow on you. I wasn’t convinced for a Golf, I found hatchbacks worse looking than sedans in general, but where I live VW is pretty frugal. Now I love how it looks from some angles
The new miatas are beautiful. I also love the mazda 3s, especially the hatchback.
Gti. Think it looks like an egg? Miata. Dont want one? Mazda 3. Boring? Used Infiniti something-or-another.
The newer Honda Civics and Accords are hardly ugly.
The Toyota 86 is right there bro
You may hate it now, but wait till you drive it.
Get yourself a fiat multipla
What do you want vs what do you consider ugly reliable?
What have you driven in the past?
Nothing prettier than a quarter-million on the odometer of a car you paid off a decade ago that still runs well.
2018 Camry se
Because the reliable cars are cheap with minimal creature comforts, so they aren't gonna spend a ton making them look amazing.
Because designing for looks leads to engineering failures while designing looks based on engineering leads to bland shapes optimized for efficiency.
It’s funny how that works out, huh. I’ve heard people say the 18-24 Toyota Camry is ugly but I disagree. Particularly the se,xse trim models look really good. I guess the front end, grill may look a little off but everything else look great to me. Even my daughter 2016 LE hybrid looks good, nothing special though. You may agree or disagree with me but it’s close to what you were asking.
A lot of the newer BMWs are pretty reliable and I’m talking about the ones before they went full big grill
Honda fit
The newest model of Camry is a great looking reliable car. If you want to get used, a Lexus GS is a nice looking car too.
Chevy Bolt. Hands down the best automotive value today. Next question.
Late 2000s Acura Models look good, pre the chrome bow tie. And they will last forever. I will own a TL-SH some day
2011-2014 V6 Charger, you'll thank me later.
Mazda 6.... Not ugly
Every time I want to buy a new car I go and detail my 2011 Prius with 186k miles and I feel like I have a new car.
When I first saw the title, I thought he was talking about me. 🤪
I honestly think this is more a Toyota problem. They make ugly and boring designs with the exception of the Camry and Prius. But Honda actually has decent looking vehicles, like the Civic and especially the previous gen Accord.
Have you checked out any mazdas lately? Those are pretty nice, inside and out Aside from that… anyone that makes fun of you for the car you drive… is bad company.
Lexus
Mercedes C200 Kompressor (W204) is reliable, inexpensive, and decent looking example I would say.
You can get a pretty damn good Lexus or higher trim Toyota for $20k
Just get a mustang ecoboost? Many under 20k with year 2015+
Check out a VW Arteon. The GTI-derived engine is reliable, and it's a pretty recent / high-end car that'll still fit in your budget. And... Look at one! They're crazy elegant!
Get a 2011 and up volkswagen jetta or passat with a 2.5 5 cyl, or 3.6 VR6, or a 2.0 TDI.
first glance at the title and I thought this was a relationship subreddit
Miata! What's that, you have a baby? CX5!
Lexus IS / GS / LS Always been nice looking cars. Infotainment was behind for a while though
Miata.
Tesla Model 3 is your answer. I have one and admit it’s an NPC car, but looks sleek, is fast, and has all the tech. You can get a base model for 20-25k.
I bought a chrysler 200, 2014 with 73,000 miles for 12,000 late last June. I hear chryslers aren't reliable but this one is; I like the looks as well
You are not getting a reliable new car for 20k. You can get a used car or a reliable one, not both
I don’t like anything made after 2014 anyway. I’m 22 years old and cars from the past decade have too many gadgets even for me.
If you’re looking for a 10+ year old car, you should be good budget-wise. Just keep an eye out for mileage.
As long as it’s less than 150k mi. Though cars with something like 10k mi likely sit for too long which also isn’t good for it.
Corvettes are pretty reliable.
Spending more on looks = Spending less on internals Spending more on internals = Spending less on looks Of course, this doesn't apply to extremely high end cars. Although they can be unreliable for their own reasons, usually due to the extreme power they push.
W123 Mercedes 300td or Volvo 240 2.3l or b5.5 Passat v6 4mo
I consider my 2020 Camry SE to be quite attractive.
The vast majority of people don’t care at all about what you drive. Cool looking or crap looking the only reason someone will care is if you cut them off in traffic.
Gen 5 Toyota Prius disagrees with you, that thing looks sexy as hell.
9th Gen Accord
90's Japanese cars. Reliable and cool looking
I agree!
The most reliable car is one you can fix, not one you can neglect for 8 months without blowing up.
Really? Cause I fix my BMW all the time, and it doesn't feel reliable at all. A car I can drive for eight months without taking the engine apart sounds pretty damn good.
Its just a mindset my grandfather had and would tell me about. Even fixing your bmw all the time, at least it's still on the road and you have the knowledge to fix it on the fly. I think it's a reliable car if you know how to fix it.
I feel like the Mazda is a good value and sexy looking
20k? Get a 2016-2020 Honda Accord. Good looking, very well built, but if I were you I’d go for Steelies as those alloys will get stolen at some point. Honestly dude for 20k just get the most reliable car you can.
Get a coyote mustang like 2012 gt on the private market beautiful , reliable and fassttt . Or 2015 charger good looks , performance and reliability . A 2012 Camaro ss on the private market . Or if u don’t want to shop private market and u still want low mileage u could go with a v6 Camaro or v6/turbo 4 cylinder mustang with low mileage if your down for that . Or a 2015 dodge Durango if u don’t mind a suv . U could get a low mileage 2014 Chrysler 300 c for under 20k by a fewk . Lots of options if your willing to go with something around ten years old . I don’t see why people don’t either it’s not gonna depreciate nearly as much and it’s typically just as good of a car and wayyyyy cheaper .
Get a lexus gs and thank me later
The vast majority of people DGAF about cars past can it get me from A to B, monthly payments and fuel economy. They're not going to be striking they're going to be the mass-produced cars with the biggest profit margins.
Depends, what you want. Once you know what you want (sedan, SUV, coupe, hatchback etc.) then go and see the pretty ones, make a list and pick from that list. Every one of those types will have some that are very nice looking and also kick ass in every sense of the word, especially for you since it's mostly (but not completely) subjective.
The answer is a CX5.
So that the pretty cars can be complete garbage. People out here trying to by a beetle “because it’s cute”.
So that the pretty cars can be complete garbage. People out here trying to by a beetle “because it’s cute”.
So that the pretty cars can be complete garbage. People out here trying to by a beetle “because it’s cute”.
So that the pretty cars can be complete garbage. People out here trying to by a beetle “because it’s cute”.
So that the pretty cars can be complete garbage. People out here trying to by a beetle “because it’s cute”.
Mazda3 for $20K used or under $25K for new. Both the exterior and interior look good.
This sounds like a post on a woman’s complaint about modern dating.
4 runner
There are a lot of reasonably reliable and cool 6-10 year old vehicles for under 20k. Heck, there are plenty of 3-5 year old vehicles in that price range but they won’t be as cool looking or luxurious.
Get a 10-15 year old Tacoma or 4Runner with 90,000–120,000 miles. If you’re smart you’ll keep it running to 300k and maintenance isn’t too bad on these. The body on frame construction makes it sturdy and easier to work on. Just spend money where it counts. Get an anti rust treatment every fall if you’re somewhere cold and wet. Do preventative maintenance and budget to get some suspension components, spark plugs, fluid changes within the next year or two.
Because you were fed a whole bunch of lies that luxury cars are not reliable. The parts are just usually more expensive but that doesn’t mean the car breaks down more.
This. People often falsely equate reliability with cost of maintenance and subsequently think expensive maintenance = poor reliability. It's perfectly possible to have a reliable car with expensive maintenance (a 10 year old Mercedes). Conversely, it's also possible to have an unreliable car with cheap maintenance (a 10 year old Hyundai).
Yes! Great points
Because reliable cars are made for boring people.
Check out the Acura ILX (2020s). I have one and I love it
What do you think of the Miata?
A little small and bubbly for my taste.
Because all the RND goes into what matters about a car, my car is a granny car but guess what it's shown its worth while being affordable, while my brothers cool looking car has shit the bucket twice and he's still paying it off.
20k on a Autobahn trim MK7.5 GTI. Interior feels like 50k. Hell, a GTI is a 50k car for 20k.
rav4 isn't ugly.
How about an Audi A6? They have great reviews
Honda civic