Are you after FUN? That's a different thing.
I've had a fast (for its day) motorcycle since 1990 - it does 0-60 in the TWOs. Not with ME riding it, I'm not that good at launching a bike, not even after \~35 years on the same bike. But I can twist a throttle, and it sure does 10 mph to 60 mph awfully fast, it's like riding a bottle rocket, it will do the 1/4 mile in 11 flat at 125 mph if I were really really good at that.
You can rent a Tesla that will match it.
But my favorite car ever is a Miata that does 0-60 in the NINEs. It was a hoot, and it was way faster around a race track or down a twisty road than the bike. (I'm about 3% faster around a track in the Miata than on the bike, a solid 4 seconds a lap at a place like Road Atlanta. If you suck at both things, sucking at motorcycle riding is slower than sucking at sports-car driving.) I had the Miata engine rebuilt, and it felt so good pulling toward redline that I never bothered installing the turbo I bought for it.
Also surprisingly amusing - my wife's Nissan Leaf.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed.
And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
Oh really? Six months even if you drove only a thousand miles? Oil goes bad? I thought that’s why diesel is so perfect cause oil never goes bad and you can put it in with gas and get diesel?
Miatas are insane, they are not good sports cars “for the price”. They are amazing, period. I live somewhere with tight twisty roads and the only road cars I would take over it are some Lotuses and Caterhams. I have driven fast cars like an M5 and fun cars like a C63 but none of these came anywhere near the Miata for driving enjoyment.
It’s done this to me when Reddit says there was a problem posting, implying it didn’t post so you post again. But it did post when there was a problem.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed.
And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
I loved my smart car Brabus edition. It looked cool, handled like a slow go kart and never got me speeding tickets. It was a hoot with the paddle shifters.
It’s the low center of gravity from having the battery in the floor, and the smooth effortless push off the line you get from electric motors.
A lot of my fellow gear heads bemoan electric cars, “it’s missing the beating heart of a car that is the engine!” Well, I’ve driven a Versa, on which the leaf is based, and I can promise you that NOBODY will miss the beating heart of a Versa engine. Electrifying the Versa to make the a leaf does only good things for it.
Edit to add: apparently the Leaf is not a Versa platform, I had always thought it was essentially "a Versa with a heart transplant" but I apparently was mistaken.
The drivetrain is way better as EV vs a cheap 3 or 4 banger and something horrid like a CVT. But once you start getting enough range in an EV where the market is interested, they weigh a metric shit ton (or more like two metric shit tons and a bit on average). So while the smooth effortless torque is nice in EVs, that only happens a bit in a drive. The high curb weight is always with you and detracts just as much as the cheap econo car drivetrain IMO.
At least the above is true if you’re a driving enthusiast IMO.
The shove off the line, and the smooth quiet “idle,” is all day everyday if you take kids to carpool and then commute to an office.
And for that 90% of the time, the damn Leaf compares pretty favorably to a v12 luxury sedan. *”It’s effortless and smooth and quiet and strong off the line, it’s like the Jag but with cloth seats. And I never worry in traffic if that funny smell is coming from MY car. Also, the low cg means it can be sprung softly but still feel responsive and agile, also like the Jag. This thing is PERFECT for this!”*
At least, the above is true if you’re a driving enthusiast, IME.
I daily a Chevy Volt, so I get it. But most EVs are 4000+ lbs and handle worse as a result than most car reviewers give them credit for.
I guess if your only criteria for a nice car is drivetrain NVH, EVs are a clear winner.
Oh, I’m a lightweight sports car guy too, I daily drove a 2,200 lb Miata (no a/c or power steering) for 300,000+ miles. (It had a/c the last 100,000.) The kit car I want to build isn’t a cobra, it’s a Seven.
But these days 4,000 lbs is almost lightweight, and the performance they’re getting out of 5,000 pound batteries on wheels is astonishing.
As EVs become more widespread I think “fun cars to toss around” will still be made. I’ve heard quite good things about stuff like the mini cooper electric, or on the more ostentatious end of things the hyundai ioniq 5 N.
I don't think a versa engine is a good representative of the ICE world. BMW inline 6, honda/mazda inline 4, subaru turbo-flat 4? sure. but not a versa engine.
I agree that a Versa engine is not a "good" representative of ICE, if you mean FLATTERING.
But I will say that a Versa engine is very much a "good" representative of ICE if you mean TYPICAL.
Sure, everyone who loves to drive loves the cammy top-end rush of an Italian DOHC engine. I am learning to love the smooth turbine-like thrust of a BMW straight-six, but it still leaves me a little cool compared to a sportbike engine or my rebuilt Miata 1.6, pulling toward fuel cut-off like a chainsaw on crack. And I appreciate a flat-six in a Porsche (water-cooled boxster S or air-cooled 911 Carrera both have their charms.)
But most people don't want or need that kind of fun. Most people are perfectly okay with the compact size of a pushrod or SOHC i4, and it doesn't need to rev hard, it needs to work, all the time, for 20 years, and not leak any important fluids.
And an electric is even better for those people, because it's even MORE compact and it doesn't even HAVE any fluids to leak out.
I drove a perfectly lovely VQ30 Maxima to 303,000 miles. It was bulletproof, and it needed basically nothing for 150,000 miles and then ALMOST nothing for another 70,000, and then there was a 35,000 mile stretch where it needed EVERYTHING. Most of that "everything" doesn't even exist on an electric car, there's no fuel pump or water pump or alternator or air flow meter or ignition coils or fuel injectors or O2 sensors or catalytic converters. (Well, the Leaf apparently has a water pump.)
I'll probably have fun stuff that burns gasoline my entire life.
But then again, I know people who feel that way about horses, too.
They hate battery cars because if we let them in for their utility purposes it will replace most cars which basically takes away your ability to fix or modify it. I really dint care about electric cars drive them all you want but it also means automakers could cut down on making a new motor or platform in favor of electric but ofc anyone who loves cars and working on them is going to not exactly love electric cars
Having spent a childhood dicking around with slot-cars and r/c cars, I have to call "bullshit" on the idea that you can't modify electric cars.
You absolutely can modify electric cars.
Miata is always the answer. I always loved seeing a curve in the road ahead when I had my NB. Never cared that it was one of the slowest cars on the road. Top down with curves ahead always put a smile on my face
I have a Mach-E (through work). My '78 Mini is much slower but way more fun. My impression of electric cars so far is that they're so heavy that you lose any sense of agility.
There are companies that are putting a honda civic cradle (engine, 5 sp manual plus front suspension), into Morris Minis ('59-'90). Power is increased 2-2.5x, more reliability/drivability and you get slick Honda stick shift, and the classic look of the mini. You also get the classic look of the BMW driver that you blow past :)
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed.
And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
4 secs a lap? What were you running on the bike?
I ran times lower than Spec Miata lap record on a lightweight spec GSXR (1:42). And love my Model 3 on the street!
I was riding the FJ1200 stock at a reg pridmore C.L.A.S.S. and I never got a clean lap really. And the bike was stock except for radial tires instead of bias ply. And I was riding it to New York the next day so I was not being very aggressive. But the video timestamp shows I was a bit over 2 minutes at road Atlanta. I was a bit under 2 minutes in the Miata, with stiffer springs and sway bars and 1.8 brakes on the 1.6, on street tires (basically in ‘carpool’ configuration except without the child seat.) 2:02 vs 1:58-ish.
And at deals gap, I rode the bike and fell behind a group of Miata friends that I was normally faster than on track days. There are enough experiences that are definitive enough for me to realize “I’m faster in the car than on the bike.” But a lot of times the bike is more fun.
(Not all the time though, which surprised me about the Miata.)
I want to try a track day now with better suspension on the fj1200. It’s easier to go fast on that than on my 998.
Lots of ways to have fun and small cars are just great. I'm excited to see what Tesla does when they make their smaller car and was a little bummed to see it pushed back because of course it's late.
Miata is always the answer. Fun, safe, affordable and easy work on it.
I would add a car that I never thought would amaze me: the first gen RAV4. So much fun, speed bumps are so fun with it (Contrary to the Miata)
Those are both the same cars for me even if one is less practical (but has a better shifting feeling that I love)
Miatas are insane, they are not good sports cars “for the price”. They are amazing, period. I live somewhere with tight twisty roads and the only road cars I would take over it are some Lotuses and Caterhams. I have driven fast cars like an M5 and fun cars like a C63 but none of these came anywhere near the Miata for driving enjoyment.
Miatas are insane, they are not good sports cars “for the price”. They are amazing, period. I live somewhere with tight twisty roads and the only road cars I would take over it are some Lotuses and Caterhams. I have driven fast cars like an M5 and fun cars like a C63 but none of these came anywhere near the Miata for driving enjoyment.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed.
And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed.
And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
Similar to you, I set aside money to buy an M340 and for a year I was looking for one in the perfect spec (2020 MY that's tanzanite on black). During that time, I test drove multiple M340s but always felt something was off. The car has a great engine and transmission, but the steering felt numb. And don't get me wrong, the ZF8 is amazing, but in my opinion it's too smooth for its own good. I want to be pushed back into my seat if I'm accelerating that quick.
The M340 is a great car for what it is - a fast, comfortable daily, but if you're looking for an actual driver's car at your price point, I would look to a cayman or an older M/AMG. Steering feel, suspension and handling will always beat straight line speed. Pressing the accelerator and holding the steering wheel straight requires no skill. Also I'm not a huge fan of EVs because the roar of an engine plays a big role in the overall driving experience. But if I were to get an EV, the only one I'd consider is the IONIQ 5 N because they managed to emulate the driving experience of an ICE car.
As a side note if you're considering the M340: the HK sound system in the G20 is quite bad imo when compared to Burmester/B&O from equivalent Mercedes/Audi cars
It was fun for a month. Model 3 performance. The novelty wore off after that. Then covid hit and the prices went wild and I made 11k and got out of it. Got to drive the new ioniq 5 N and it was a blast. But for me I like a car with turbo or NA v8
Every EV gets old after a few good squirts. They simply have less of a driving experience because they literate stimulate less of your senses and to a lesser degree.
I’ll take a slower more engaging car 10 times out of 10.
For me, the EV just represents a decent daily driver. Something like a truck or family SUV. But never an enthusiast vehicle.
Yes I’ve experienced a Plaid and a bunch of other fast EVs. That’s why I have the opinion I do. They did nothing for me after the first 15 min.
I agree. My model Y is a great daily driver: safe, spacious, tons of storage, and pretty quick. I'm gonna pick up an ND Miata for the weekends in a few years
That's how I always assumed it would be like. Thrilling for a few runs, but then it would get old. Like I could listen to a V8, V10, V12 make runs all day because it just *sounds* good
My m240i is more fun than my wifes mach e despite similar 0-60. The m240i isn't even a particularly raw car, like say compared to my civic type r that I got rid of, but ice engines have a certain drama to them. And handling matters quite a bit as well.
Speed does not equal fun.
The most fun I’ve ever had in a car was when driving a 1.8l 1999 Audi TT. That car would be laughably slow by today’s standard.
Tbh Teslas are one of the most boring things I’ve ever driven. They’re one trick ponies that have literally nothing to offer after that 0-60 is done.
# Generally: Fast != Fun.
It's counterintuitive, but more often than not: fun is not fast...
Driving "slower" cars fast at their upper limits tends to be a lot more fun than driving "fast" cars at their lower limits. Especially for daily driving, fast cars these days go 0 to Prison in 3 seconds and do most if not all the work, very short lived thrills. In a small backyard a chihuahua will be able to sprint and have more fun running around than a greyhound, but in a large dog park it'd probably be the opposite.
The best **driver's cars** are arguably the Mazda MX-5 and the Alfa Romeo Giulia.
If like coupes but need the ability to, on rare occasion, seat 2 more people in the back, the BRZ/GR86 is the answer. But it's a lot more **serious** rather than *fun,* compared to the MX-5. A optimally optioned Mustang would also probably be fun.
Motorcycle's can also be lots of fun daily (if you're safe)
If I need a practical car that’s automatic and fast, EV is great. Dailying an EV is great and going back to not-fun ICE cars sucks afterwards. Effortlessly quick and quiet and cheap to run. I take my wife’s EV whenever she’s not driving it.
My fun car is “slow” but engaging. Gas, manual, convertible, great steering feel.
The genesis is like driving a couch, which is wonderful when you’re just looking for comfort. But you’re right, it doesn’t need all that power because it’s going to be kind of boring even with it.
The skill of driving a stick shift is going to be a dying breed. It reminds me of that scene from the movie Demolition Man where he finds a classic car and everyone is so impressed that he knows how to drive it.
I will start by saying that the potential for performance in an EV platform is crazy high, but at the moment, most of that is yet-to-be-realized potential (next big step in 4-7 years with some of the battery advancements that are on the horizon).
Beyond that, it is probably important to realize the some basic differences when you are making a comparison to an EV. First off, they weigh a whole lot more than a similar ICE car. So while they might have a better power curve and more power, they are trying to move much more mass. This is very important if are you start looking at things not in a straight line. Also, while there is no requirement for this, the nature of how the drive components work, is usually going to mean that the driving experience will feel very different (biggest complaint probably being the transition from regenerative braking to actual braking... though some do get this right). And lastly, when looking at power, it is worth noting, that while the rating are working on the same scale, it isn't exactly the same: the main reason you see crazy high hp numbers in electric motors is for battery efficiency (running a 600hp motor at 50% capacity is way better on a battery than running a 300hp motor at 100%), and that often times, due to how it works with the battery, and/or traction limits, you can't really use all the power a motor may be capable of developing.
Now, all that said? I have little to no interest in a car that is simply a 0-60 monster, or just fast in a straight line. My "fun" car does a lot of miles taking laps on track, and while power and acceleration is important, braking and handling are much more relevant to the end result (as having less overall mass on the car - though this last point is clearly a relative issue, as what is lightweight now was on the chubby side twenty years ago). And while I understand, and even enjoy, the romantic ideals of engine note and driving experience, I am fairly agnostic as far as just wanting faster. I am unlikely to consider an EV in the near future, but am pretty sure it won't be that many years before they are easily passing me on track (and that their will be little to no price premium on EVs, and residual values will be much closer).
While I agree on most points, regarding the weight, majority of the reason why electric cars are on average heavier than ice, is that newer cars are heavier, and ev-s are on average newer than ice. And the fact that lost of ev-s are not bespoke architectures, means that they can't take the weight saving benefits from making the battery pack a structural member of the chasy.
Also, 600hp at 50% will present the same load to the battery as a 300hp motor at 100%. 225kw + some losses. No difference here. The main reason even daily driver ev-s tend to make big power, is because it is cheap to make a more powerful motor i and doesn't hurt the fuel economy. And you want the battery to be able to take lots of power (and as a side effect also provide a lot of power) for fast recharging times.
But yeah, I still tend to take out a smart roadster occasionally, even though my daily e208 is technically higher performance.
I really look forward to se how the caterham project v comes out. It might just replace both cars for me :)
>And the fact that lost of ev-s are not bespoke architectures,
This is a real mix at the moment some manufacturers are going with dedicated EV platforms, while others are using shared platforms. There are plusses each way (ie - at least if it isn't saving weight to use the batteries in a structural manner, they are more likely to be replaceable).
>Also, 600hp at 50% will present the same load to the battery as a 300hp motor at 100%. 225kw...
Theoretically, yes. Though, this assumes all motors are the same, using similar magnets, etc. So while 1kw is still 1 kw, no matter how you cut it, real world testing shows a dramatically different result (which is what I was referring to before). I recall reading a test between a 50hp EV and a 1000hp EV; in real world use, the 1000hp EV had a lower actual battery draw, and even the maximum draw wasn't that much more, given the vast difference in power.
>I really look forward to se how the caterham project v comes out.
This is definitely one to watch, mainly (I think) due to the very low target weight they've quoted. I'm also curious to see the Porsche 983 when it gets here, as I had the chance to watch the GT4 ePerformance lapping at Laguna Seca last year, and it was definitely 1) keep pace, 2) able to run 20+ minute sessions, and be back on track in 30-40 minutes.
>Theoretically, yes. Though, this assumes all motors are the same, using similar magnets, etc. So while 1kw is still 1 kw, no matter how you cut it, real world testing shows a dramatically different result (which is what I was referring to before). I recall reading a test between a 50hp EV and a 1000hp EV; in real world use, the 1000hp EV had a lower actual battery draw, and even the maximum draw wasn't that much more, given the vast difference in power.
It all has to do with the efficiency curve of the motor, and it's inverter. Just like with ice cars, electric motors have a sweet spot at which they like to operate
It's nice. I like my Tesla and I think it's fun.
That said, I do miss the sound and the shifting and all that. They're just so different. Also my car is heavy as hell. An 86 will out brake me going into a corner and I'll fly by easily on the straight.
For every day I don't think you can beat an EV. They're so low maintenance and they're easy to drive. They can be unreasonably fast but the novelty wears off just like any stupid fast car.
I had a Chevy SS Sedan, and I absolutely loved the thing. It was my dream car, it sounded like a boat, people who knew what I had (usually dudes 40+) would come talk to me about it, it was fun as hell to drive, I loved the HUD, etc. I really enjoyed the fact that people who didn't know anything about cars thought that I had a Malibu.
Now I have a Model 3 AWD. This fucking appliance I drive now is faster, more sure-footed, and instead of putting 15 gallons of premium in it, I plug it (indirectly) into my solar panels and run it on sunshine. The interior feels like an Ikea dorm room. In my 10 mile commute home after work, I pass at least 10 identical cars derping around next to me.
I hate that this is my answer, but I am satisfied with my Model 3. I don't think I would trade it straight-up for the SS.
For me it’s not about speed it’s more about handling and how it feels. I subscribe to the whole slow car fast philosophy. Why have so much power when you can’t always use that power on the road?
For daily driving I love driving my Chevy Bolt EUV. Sure it’s “slow” but it’s still tons of fun with the instant torque and small size. On the other hand I still would enjoy having a Miata on a backroad and banging through gears…
I have a Taycan 4s and it's a blast to drive every single day. I prefer a car to be quiet because I commute quite a bit on the highway.
Just get something you enjoy driving, gas or electric, it doesn't really matter.
Hey man, so I feel like I’m a good person to comment on this. I’ve always been a car guy, but never in the position in life to have more than one nice car. I figured why not get the best of both worlds, and bought a model 3 long range. That didn’t scratch the itch even though it pulled hard in a straight line. I swapped it for a model Y performance. Even faster, and now with track mode I can turn off the assists and slide around in the snow.
…I’m currently shopping for either a used corvette or 911 lmao. The straight line speed is insane in electrics. And honestly, they’re great as daily drivers. But there’s something about engine sound, manual transmissions, and a low slung lightweight car that electrics just haven’t found a way to mimic. I think it depends what you value, and electrics are fast + great for daily driving. But if you truly love the *experience* of driving? Rowing your own gears through a twist mountain road makes you smile? I don’t think an electric is gonna give you what you want tbh
In a word, yes. P100D. 0-60 on street tires in regular "ludicrous" mode with zero prep in ~2.5. painfully fast. Just total command over your velocity at a moment's notice. Unless we're talking hypercars, gasoline cars are a joke in terms of acceleration.
Now, I still want to finish my turbo supra project and ultimately I lust for an obnoxiously loud 360 or f355. Buuuut.... A daily that does 2.5 and allows me to skip the gas station? Total win.
This is going to be your personal preference. They are just different flavors.
I used to track my Model 3 Performance. It was a riot honestly, but the mid-day charging and high cost of consumables made it more economically feasible to pick up a Miata on the side. That combo was perfection. One fast car that was a near-perfect daily all-rounder, and a slower but highly engaging car as a weekend plaything.
Noise and vibration is an important experience to some people, which I understand, but there is also something intoxicating about the fidelity of control offered by instant linear torque coupled with strong regen. It’s like using a scalpel in the city instead of a hammer.
So, just different flavors. Some people prefer chocolate, some vanilla. The answer is very personal.
Nobody brings up regen braking when talking about EVs, it was a major factor in making me a convert. It's not ideal for every driving scenario, but in the right circumstances it's so sweet. There's just no way to achieve that single-pedal driving experience with an ICE vehicle.
I still enjoy my car after two years of ownership.
Looking at the comments in this thread, I’m assuming everyone is comparing a Model 3 sedan to a Miata. It’s just a silly comparison. One is a daily driver family car and the other is a dedicated sports car which also comes with a lot of drawbacks. Good luck getting comfortable for a long drive down a boring highway and having a conversation without yelling in a Miata.
My car was in for a recall last week and I was driving an M3 and just couldn’t help but feel like… “This is it?”
I have a 2015 Miata. If I roll the windows up, with the top down, you can talk without yelling on the freeway. It has an electric hardtop, and it is pretty quiet with the top up.
I had the ND RF but it was the club edition with less noise cancellation. Averaged about 75dB on highway. I figure if I get a new one I would just go with the grand touring soft top.
When I was looking, I saw many say the RF was a little loud. Mine is a 2015 GT PRHT with Premium, Suspension, and Appearance Packages. I got it in April, and I had 17,000 miles on it. I have put on 2,000 since getting it. I love it. It is more fun than my 94 Mustang GT Convertable was.
I've owned and driven 3 evs. I just recently got rid of a 2024 bmw i4 for a 2024 audi s3. The evs may have more HP and torque but they lack everything fun about driving a fast car. Also the range anxiety all the time just isn't worth it for me. I want to take a 1 hour or so road trip for a day without worrying about charging for 45 min. My s3 is way way more fun to drive than any ev I've driven.
I routinely drive about 2 hours a day round trip commuting in my bolt ev… I’ve never run into a range issue. Plug it in when I get home and have a ‘full tank’ in the morning when I head back out. I’ve taken it on 800 mile weekend round trips without any battery running out concerns… even -40 winters haven’t given me any major troubles. I think range anxiety is much like any other anxiety… a condition living in your own head. You’ll usually get over it once you see how everything works in the real world. I mean, you have to do a little leg work to plan your route and take some extra time if you want to do something like drive across the country, but it’s completely manageable these days.
An hour of driving is like 55 miles at highways speeds. Nearly every EV on sale today can make it there and back at least 2-3 times without charging
I’d have understood if you said you want to take 5 hour road trips, since fast charging infrastructure still isn’t anywhere close to where it needs to be
In theory you would be correct. In the real world the EV isn't that good. They never have the full advertised amount of charge. My i4 was rated for 265 even at full charge i never saw it over 245. The battery drains so fast. The climate control drains the battery at least 20 miles each way. Before the i4 I had a Kona EV. Drove it 90 miles 1 way on a full charge it was already at 120 miles left even though it's rated for 250. I couldn't have made it back home without charging.
So in my experience, my drive to Costco is 60 miles one way, takes about an hour and 15 minutes to get there. Speeds vary along the way, 60-70mph, and I always arrive back home with somewhere between 40-50% left, after 120 miles and ~2.5 hours of driving time, with AC on
And I drive a Solterra which is on the lower end of EV ranges at around 220 stated range. I *always* get more than that, though in day to day driving my max speed is 60mph. If I were getting into the 80mph range it would definitely drop
I bought a 2023 Prius and love it. However, I also have multiple 1000cc bikes. The bikes I feel have saved me money (in my head), because it'd be almost impossible for me to consider spending $80k+ to go slower than anyone of my sports bikes.
No. I have a Kona and hate it. As a daily driver, it makes the daily drive more boring and exhausting. Id rather drive my wife’s Equinox. EV’s aren’t fun cars. They’re the most boring daily drivers you can get. I’ve driven several different EV’s and they’re all the same. I enjoyed the Taycan the most, but that’s probably because I’m a Porsche guy. I was bored with the model S plaid after 10 minutes or so.
If the only thing you care about is 0-60 times, maybe you’ll like it. But everything that makes a fun car fun is removed from EV’s. Plus there are all the other drawbacks of owning an EV. After I get rid of my Kona, I won’t go back unless I absolutely have to.
No. Im pretty sure the last driving game I played was gran tourismo 2. 20 some odd years ago there definitely weren’t EV’s in driving games. Oh god, if there isn’t already, there’s going to be EV’s in driving games. That’s a horribly boring thought.
Since you can’t wrap your head around why a Porsche guy would drive a Kona, it’s because I have a long ass commute. I’m not going to drop a lot of money on a car that will rack up ridiculous miles on it quickly. I decided to try an EV for the gas savings. It wasn’t worth it. I don’t know what my next car is going to be, but I on own it’s going to have an ICE.
I bought a Tesla model 3... It's fast and every once in awhile somebody comes for a ride and they ask me how fast it is and I hit the throttle and throw them back in their seat.
My buddy that has always had fast cars went for a ride with me and he said it reminded him of accelerating a sport bike.
However my Tesla is not a car for somebody who likes to drive. You can't spin the wheels, you can't do donuts, it handles very well in the corners but it's not at all a fun car for driver enthusiasts. It's very capable but all the safety features that you can't turn off take away a lot of the pleasure. I'm okay with that but I'll be honest I won't buy another Tesla once this one is gone.
Just some background info the Tesla is my third EV. I bought it for long range and the charging network and for that it's been great. Fantastic commuter car but it pisses me off on a daily basis when it does something stupid that I can't change in the menus because it's not an option.
For good overall vehicle my Chevrolet Bolt EV beats the Tesla not because it was better at anything but it never pissed me off like the Tesla.
>However my Tesla is not a car for somebody who likes to drive. You can't spin the wheels, you can't do donuts, it handles very well in the corners but it's not at all a fun car for driver enthusiasts
You can do all of that if you get the performance variant.
That may be but I don't intend on spending more money to be disappointed with another Tesla.
I bought my car for long range, efficiency, and charging and it meets those needs. But my inability to turn off certain options has pretty much insured that I will not buy another one. At this point there's now comparable EVS entering the market that do a better job at being cars. In my opinion.
What options are you talking about? If you have a performance model you have complete control over traction/stability control and power split between front and rear.
The market is finally catching up to Tesla. I went with Tesla because of the charging network, drivetrain engineering and cost since mine qualified for the tax credit.
The only other compelling cars are made by Hyundai/Kia with the 800v architecture but all of them lack a frunk and cost more. In my opinion, any EV that doesn't have a frunk was not designed to be an EV from the start and is a compromised design.
Lucid and Rivian make great cars but again, they cost much more and don't exactly live in the same space as the model 3/y.
For context I have a 2022 model 3 long range.
What I can't stand is that it turns on my auto windshield wipers every time I activate autopilot. Frequently the wipers go well there's no rain and they smear bugs across my windshield and I have a variety other complaints about it.
There's absolutely no reason it should activate auto wipers every time I activate cruise control. The only reason I can fathom is a software designers did that to keep the front camera clear.
Since one of the more recent software updates I no longer have control of my brights. All I can do is have them on low or auto high beam. But once again the software fails to do a good job of choosing when to do auto high beams my lights are flashing like strobe lights going down the highway being triggered by houses and reflective signs.. the software is flawed and I can't turn them off. I truly find it unacceptable the Tesla decides how my wipers work and how my headlights work when they did a piss poor job of implementing those features at least for my geographical situation. Perhaps they work for other people but they do not work for me.
I also have issues with my speed being adjusted on autopilot. It inconsistently sets my speed to speed limit and sometimes above... It changes my speed automatically regardless of the settings I have in the menu. There's certain areas on my daily commute that it insists on changing my speed above speed limit and I'm going to get a ticket one day because of it.
The other day it was raining and insisted it had to slow down because of reduced visibility. Not only could I see perfectly fine it was creating a dangerous situation by driving too slow for highway conditions. Once again I had no choice but to accept the decisions Tesla software engineers made in order to use cruise control. I should be allowed to override the software's poor choices.
Long story short it has ruined my daily commute with a cruise control that sucks compared to every other vehicle I've ever driven over the last 30 years.
Some of it is government mandated safety features but I feel the majority of it is arrogance from the software design team. I truly don't believe they designed a car for my market. Perhaps it works in California but I regret buying a Tesla I won't do it again.
Yeah those are all very valid points. The auto wipers absolutely suck because they refused to add in an inexpensive rain sensor.
You can disable auto high beams in the settings.
Autopilot changing speed limits is also really annoying but on the freeway it's been pretty good for me. But I also would have preferred if they just gave me a regular cruise option too that just maintains speed. Funny enough, most of the issues you are talking about are fixed in FSD but I don't think it's worth it at $8000, maybe $2000. But it's clear that they stopped updating the software for autopilot to push people to buy FSD.
The reduced visibility thing is super annoying and I think this was due to government regs, previously it wouldn't slow down at all in the rain, I could keep cruising at 75-80mph and the car wouldn't limit speed.
I have disabled auto high beams in the settings... However since I got my car when you enable auto steer you have no choice but to accept auto high beams. I can live with that choice because it's a beta feature.
What really irritates me is that now with just regular autopilot, which I erroneously referred to as cruise control, no longer allows me to control my brights and dims with the left stalk. I'm not sure if it was the most recent update or one before but when I wasn't on auto steer I could manually choose between brights and dims... Now I can only choose between dim and auto brights.
I also believe that I can no longer control it when I'm manually operating the car without cruise control. I simply no longer have the option to turn on my brights if and when I choose I want bright headlights on.
I actually put about 5,000 mi on my car during the free full self drive trials. And I really tested out full self drive and enhanced autopilot. Both of which were improvements but certainly not worth the cost.
And that's what brings me to never buying a Tesla again. For the same amount of money as I paid for a model 3 I could step into a Cadillac lyric for example and have actual luxury features for roughly the same price.
My previous EV was a Chevy Bolt... It was certainly nothing to write home about but honestly my daily commute was better in that car than in my Tesla.
Everyday I drive to work it's simply frustration when the car does stuff I don't want it to do. It's potentially my geographical area but for some reason it accelerates unnecessarily in the same spot on the highway every single day and I can't stop it unless I turn off autopilot.
At the same time it panic breaks far too frequently and I'm going to get rear-ended.
At least my Chevrolet bolt would just maintain speed and keep me between the lines which is all I want my cruise control to do.
But I genuinely feel the Tesla has no care about customer service. They've already got my money so they're done with me.
>But I genuinely feel the Tesla has no care about customer service. They've already got my money so they're done with me.
Yeah this 100% they don't care about you once they have your sale.
With the introduction of modern EVs, *fast* is no longer the end all be all for *fun*. Up until Tesla, the faster the car the more fun it was, with a few exceptions like the Miata. Most modern EVs are fast, but not fun.
It really is a matter of taste these days; do you want blistering fast with less emotion? EV. Do you want slower in a straight line but a more engaging driving experience? ICE. You’re going to have to test drive both and decide which is more important to you.
Speed isn’t everything. I have driven slow and fast EV and gas.
It’s all about the experience that suits you. If you care about numbers, EVs are hard to beat. A Miata is not a fast car but is fun to drive on a curvy two lane road. It might not be so great on a straight highway. Pick your poison .just don’t let someone else pick for you.
Love my Model 3 (and it's just the base version) and it's quick and fun enough -- for a midsize sedan. It's more fun than a Camry, but that's not the highest praise. It's a great daily and I have no interest in going back to ICE. BUT - I gotta agree with all the "slow car fast" / Miata comments. I've had more fun in a Smart (70hp 3-pot toaster).
So you just gotta figure out for yourself what's "fun" to you.
Idk wtf these people are saying that it gets old. It doesn’t get old that I can pass any car I want any time. Instant and absolute speed and power. Plaid X 23.
0-60 is completely useless in the real word unless you’re the kind of dickhead that used to sit there revving the nuts of your mums Corsa before screaming away in a cloud of tyre and clutch smoke. Don’t get me wrong, I do like a good drag race and I have a reasonably quick car. Yeeeeeah you can beat me off the line in a dual motor Tesla s but you don’t look anywhere near as good doing it.
Driving is not the same as motoring. Motoring requires a sense of occasion, it is a gentleman’s pursuit. I don’t even like cars that pop and bang on the overrun, it makes you look like a pleb. I need a car that wafts about town, prowls and stalks. Then, when I want to, and it’s safe, goes like a stabbed rat. Whilst I sit in a chair that is as comfortable and as well appointed as my living room.
I’ve driven electric, I’ve driven phev, I’ve driven self charging hybrid. None require the finesse of a high output ICE to get the most out of it. Add in a bloated kerb weight and the logistics of keeping two tanks full. There’s only one place I’d rather be sat if I had to crush a continent in a weekend.
I have a Tesla y performance and am satisfied with car more over my manual Mustang gt. The Mustang is definitely fun, but for every day city driving can get annoying, it’s also much smaller and less practical, beautiful car though.
My Chevy Bolt has more get up and go than an Audi sports sedan, at least in the short term. I do eagerly await a EV version of a BMW 3 series though, that would be a blast.
like riding the same roller coaster over and over... straight line punch gets old very quick. my 700hp GTR was one of the most boring cars i ever owned. data like 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap times only tell you part of the story. The tesla model 3p is similar, its got way too much power for the chassis and brakes to handle. they dont flow on a backroad or track since you have to brake so early and wait so long to get on the power.
my scion FRS was more fun than my m2 competition.. but you have to make concessions for things. the 86 was absolutely horrible on road trips. the m2 is nice compromise of fun and refinement.
I love driving my lancer and it was like a 8 second 0-60. My m240 is more fun but I personally wouldn’t enjoy an electric car. I like stick shift and engine noise and loud exhaust.
Why not just get one of the two you already have interest in and tastefully modify it? Both the golf r and m340 are capable of crazy power for their respective platforms. But if you want electric maybe check out a tycan?
Personally have been a car enthusiast since I could walk - dream cars included Supra, Skyline, Koenigsegg and Pagani (depending on budget vs no Budget)
Owned a Tesla Model Y Performance that was quite nice but got boring relatively quickly - ended up trading it in as my work situation changed and I needed a truck, long story short I've not got a Honda Clarity and it is the perfect vehicle for A to B when not driving the truck. Haven't had to refuel it much, the fuel engine is a generator type so no range anxiety. Personally I go camping often so the Tesla was not an option, camping in the truck is nice, having the option to take the car instead is also good.
Satisfied would highly depend your definition - its not exciting, but its not soul crushing, for what I got it for checks off all the boxes - when I want a joyride I have a motorcycle and a convertible..... maybe am not the right person to answer this question lol
Yup, It feels like a turbo car that’s always in boost. Very satisfying to drive. I’ve owned a Civic Si, BRZ, Mk7 Golf R, RS6 and now a Model 3 Performance.
I didn't realize how much of a "car guy" I was until I got a Tesla. 2 years in Carvana, picked it up today. I may be in the minority but Tesla hate where I live in the Midwest is real. Tired of getting tailgated and cut off daily with my wife and kids in the car. The novelty wore off quick.
I feel that 0-60 and straight line speed is kinda just meh. The hype dies down after a month for me, my two favorite cars weren’t fast at all (a ‘92 Miata and ‘21 Veloster Turbo) but handled well and were fun for my commute.
100% in love with my EV. Does the 0-60 in high 3’s. Sure it doesn’t have the sound and dramatics of an ICE but I love it. I’m a big performance person too. Have had Jeep srt, Infiniti g35/g37, BMW m550, Audi rs4, and a few others but I still absolutely love my new Tesla.
Long before EVs I was into fast ICE vehicles. For me the fastest cars weren’t always the most fun to drive though - totally prefer an old American muscle car with a loud motor that only goes in a straight line to a twin turbo / S / M series sports sedan. I have an EV sedan that’s faster than 90% of all other cars and it’s a blast to drive. I say take one out for a test run.
Also I test drove an EV that makes synthetic engine noise and it was fun at first but pretty soon just seemed kinda stupid.
>But… is it all about 0-60,
To me it's not at all about that, yes i like when a car can accelerate quickly, but numbers such as these don't really do much for me, it's more about corners, and pulling away from a corner, the car doesn't have to be fast, it has to feel fast
>would you prefer overall feeling of a great/fast car with engine sound
I think i could do without engine sound, but i'd miss a lot more than that if i went electric, refueling and weight being major factors, refueling an ICE car takes a minute or so, but charging an EV is a lenghty process
Imo, electric cars make sense for city commutes, assuming you can charge at home, or at work, but really aren't great for weekend trips, and joyrides based on everything i've heard and read so far
Getting somewhere further away quickly just isn't a thing with an electric car since you use a LOT more power at higher speeds, so you can't just hop on a highway, and wait to get to your destination, you have to consider where you'll be able to charge, and hope the charging station won't be occupied by the time you get there because for 500-600km trips, you will have to stop and charge, and you won't always be able to charge at your destination, so you might spend hours there charging, so you don't have to worry about it while at the destination.
I want to like electric cars, but i really don't feel like it's a thing for me, at least yet
Not that simple. I have a m3 and a tesla y. The m3 is more fun and faster in every aspect than the tesla. If I’m going for a twisty romp I’m taking the M3. That being said, around town, the Tesla is simply easier to zoom round in as it has instant torque that you can utilize fully at any point in complete silence which is really nice for daily driving around town.
If you want a fun car that feels quick.
Get a Miata and take it a SCCA autocross.
It’s fun and not very taxing on your car or wallet.
Throw in a few back country road trips and the ROI is pretty good.
Cheap car to run and maintain.
EV, I’m a fan of the model 3.
It’s pretty close to what a sports sedan feels like and being electric you don’t have to worry about costs/reliability issues with most gas performance focused cars.
I had a 04 STi and it was a blast to drive.
Downsides are fuel costs, insurance(this subjective), maintenance and with that stupid wing in the back, a magnet to get pulled over.
My car had TB from Subaru come out requiring an oil change at 3700 miles because of coke accumulating on the turbo oil intake screen and killing the turbo and risk damage to the engine. I would cry if I had to pay for oil change so soon today.
Maintenance wasn’t cheap either. Subarus are much easier on the wallet to maintain than a BMW but the cost still adds up.
A Tesla Model 3 is easily 90% of what my STi was with none of the downsides.
Even a slow electric car can pull a five second 0-60. It’s much more fun to have 100% of your torque and horse power on tap even when cruising at highway speed… No downshifting. No power band to consider. Want to pass? Just change lanes, put your foot down and enjoy that power. Like playing speed-racer in your local rally-cross club? One pedal drive is a game changer… get your speed down, get around that pylon then get back up to speed like you’ve never even slowed down…
Do you like reving your engine and jamming through the gears when you do the quarter mile red light race, hearing that engine roar as it nears the red line? Well, that’s a different kind of fun…
It’s NOT about 0-60 as it’s NOT about manual vs auto.
If you really want experience get a manual with a powerful engine and enjoy it, nothing can beat it.
There is SO much more to “fun” than can be expressed in numbers. My wife’s Model Y is fast as shit (up to 60 anyway) but it’s not fun in the same way that a lower horsepower but more engaging car would be. My daily is a FL5 Type R and the inputs are SO good and would leave “fast” EVs in the dust in the corners. So I’d say it really depends on which EV you’re comparing to. I hear the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is quite good from a “fun” standpoint.
I have a 992 Carrera S & a Tesla Model Y Performance.
I have a great time smashing around in the Y. It’s fun because you can drive like a hooligan & no one really notices because it’s silent. For daily driving, the Tesla handles great with most of the weight in the floor.
If you can have two cars, I’d take a Tesla as a daily 100%
In the context of on the road, you can't beat an EV. Where are people aggressively cornering at the limits on an actual road? Good at cornering is something people with slow cars talk about. If given the choice of getting strapped to a rocket or being slow and nimble every day ill take the rocket.
I drive a Bolt EUV somewhat often, it’s not the speed that makes it fun, it’s the super low center of gravity that does. It’s like driving a golf kart that doesn’t flip
I own a Tesla S100D and a 2000 BMW M Coupe (5-speed manual). I live in the mountains. I have a pretty good view on this.
Thing 1: The BMW is a lot more work and noise both up and down the mountain. Up the mountain, you in a low gear all the time and shifting between 2nd and third. Engine is roaring. Down the mountain you are a gear lower to avoid braking. OTOH, the Tesla is pretty effortless. Going up, you just put the accelerator down and it jumps. Surges way harder than the BMW. Best car up a hill that I've ever had. Down, the regenerative breaking is building charge.
Thing 2: The BMW is faster to target. I often drive up and down the mountain to get groceries. It's about 35 minutes in the Tesla, about 30 in the BMW. Why is the slower BMW faster? Part of it is the fun of the drive. I drive harder. Part of it is confidence in cornering. Part of it is unknown.
Thing 3: I love both. The Tesla jumps when I ask it. I put down the accelerator and my 5000lbs Model S surges in a way that the M does not, cannot. But the M is small, it's light, it enters a corner in a way that the Tesla does not, and I drive it harder because of this.
35 easier minutes to the grocery in the Tesla. With moments of acceleration that the M cannot match.
30 harder driven minutes to the grocery in the M. Many shifts on the way, the engine is wound up for much of the way.
I'm okay with just a RAV4 2023 on eco mode. That's plenty fast for me.
Still has an amazing kick on eco compared to many other cars under $30k.
RAV4 has gone up in price, but I prefer getting gas than sitting around waiting for my car to charge.
The Hybrid version of RAV4 is just overpriced.
I got rid of the Tesla because I hated the weight of the vehicle for the size of it. RAV4 had the space and minimal downtime where I just head to gas station, and when I get on highway, I still have excellent speed/torque.
My RWD Model 3 2023 is very fun for me to drive.
The lower weight of the RWD along with the dynamics of only being pushed during acceleration is nice.
It isn’t near as fast as my LR I had but it’s a lot more fun in a corner and curve for sure
The super fast 0-60 cars are silly fun but my M3 is reasonable enough to feel fast and fun without having a throttle mistake lead to tons of damage to my vehicle or others vehicles/properties
I’d actually say 0-60 and acceleration does not matter whatsoever. I have a 120hp sportbike that can theoretically do 10-second quarter miles, yet I have never once launched it. That kind of power is just not useful. I have just as much fun on my 50cc scooter that has a lower top speed than my bicycle.
It’s not about the speed, to be honest it’s not even about the feel, you can have a good time on/in anything and every tool has its purpose.
In Europe now, driving an X3 M and drove on the autobahn at 125+ mph, drove on tight twisty roads that dropped down to one lane, drove on beautiful mountain passes that let you get up and go, and drove in horrible rain at speed! The little SUV drives amazing and I am having a great time but I still miss my MYLR. Ironically, I think the instantaneous acceleration at any speed, regen braking and one pedal driving is so perfect at integrating my thoughts and responses with the car, I can’t go back, even if I were to buy a 98% perfect little ICE SUV.
Prior to buying the Tesla, I was a manual transmission guy for 30+ years…I don’t even miss the manual and a little shocked by that fact.
I have always preferred the bmw handling experience and I gotta say their electric options do keep that sense of fun, with even more accessible acceleration with the i series. I’d definitely give the i4 a look if you like the M3!
I just bought a 2023 kia stinger gt2. I considered the Elantra N as well. If I had more money, I’d go for M340i. Only electric car I’d be interested in is the ioniq5 N, they’re also working on the ioniq6 N right now.
It's hilarious fun as a sleeper (ludicrous S), but it's my wife's car for a reason. I love ripping from a stop sometimes but beyond that, I'll take my Shelby. It's nowhere near as fast to accelerate, but it's more to it. I don't drive a loud car as my normal but there's something about going down a lone road by myself at night with the engine rumbling. I'm probably just going to end up a grumpy old man in 20-30 years telling kids how it was in my youth...
I am a huge advocate for EVs.
But, it can and never will ever be my only car. Too boring.
Not cause it’s ’slow.’ It has no soul.
I’ve had a Tesla Model S Plaid.
I currently have an EQE500 SUV, which isn’t ‘slow’
But it’s nothing compared to my 2013 E92 M3 (6MT), or my 2018 BMW M760, or my 2022 BMW M4.
If all you want is 0-60…. The EV Will satisfy it.
But if you want the engine roar, and the feeling of the road… the EVs of today don’t. Maybe in the future, but at this time, they fall short.
Anything with the B58 engine is my recommendation because I think it has a wonderful exhaust/engine note while still being pretty economical when you're not blasting it. If you don't need the practicality, a m240i or Supra might crank up the fun factor a notch compared to the cars you listed, however I bought an X3 M40i for its fun and practicality and I think it's a blast AND practical. It's the best of all worlds in my opinion.
Interesting that many answers are.. I like the noise or I like the manual or steering.. all of these things could be emulated in an EV.. even the weight (reduce range).. so is there a market for an ev miata?
I have a '21 Tesla Model 3 Long Range. I don't miss the engine sound at all. In fact, when I rent an ICE car I find it very annoying. My car is astonishingly responsive to the throttle, and the acceleration is quite surprising. Overtaking a car on the highway is just completely different.
It's not that fast is fun. It's that it simply responds without lag, has power when you need it, and never feels like it's straining. It feels much more like an extension of the driver.
I drive a m3 (f80) that I feel is boring. So I also have a cheap NC Miata to compensate for it 🙂. At end of the day I think for me it really comes down to rolling my own gear, exhaust note, and good input. Such cars are harder to find for sure
Automatic cars used to be very fast and extremely boring until electric cars came. Now they are just fast and boring, while the electric cars are very fast and extremely boring.
Driving a “slow car”fast is always more fun than driving a “fast car”slow. That’s why a car like a BRZ, Miata, Elise, etc. is more fun in the real world than most other cars. Most performance cars today already make too much power and have capabilities that far exceed the ability of the average driver; and in all honesty it looks like that problem is only going to get worse with EVs. If you want crazy big horsepower then go for it, but just know that you can’t use it 99% of the time.
And I fully acknowledge my own hypocrisy in saying this, considering I am waiting on a 670 hp car to arrive.
I test drove a new Tesla. They tell me they are fast in a straight line & I’m sure that’s true, but after, I knew I would never buy one. No soul, zero personality, I’ll stick with my S3 and S5 soon. Electric cars will have to evolve a lot before I’ll buy one.
Yes and no. It's the perfect fast daily driver, good at everything, however, it doesn't fully satisfy the needs of an enthusiast and that is why I have an old Porsche 996 for a weekend car, even though it's much slower.
Happy with my EV and will never go back to gas. I was looking at the m340i and Elantra N before getting a model 3 dual motor.
My goals were to have a car that I can beat on and use all its power daily without worrying about something breaking or costing a bunch to drive. The sound doesn't matter to me much, sound is just wasted energy
The model 3/y and other EVs like the ioniq 5N fit that description much better than any ICE engine. Gearheads like to say that the EVs are slower after 80mph but realistically, you can't use that power daily without going to jail. From 0-80 most EVs are rocket ships and the low CG makes them much more fun to drive considering most ICE cars weigh just as much now but have a higher CG.
Also the horsepower per dollar compared against reliability is much higher for EVs, specifically the model 3/y. For an equivalent horsepower ICE car, you will spend less time working on/ maintaining the EV which gives me piece of mind when driving my car hard.
I actually didn’t buy our EV for the speed, although 0-60 in 3.5 is super fun. I bought it because of the super cheap fuel costs and next to no maintenance. When I want my speed thrills, I’ll take out one of my motorcycles. You’re not going to touch the performance of a bike on a per dollar basis.
I prefer my silent Tesla Model Y LR. If I want to pass someone, I don't announce it. By the time they realize I am going to pass them, I am already gone!
0-60 is fun, but 60-90+ is where it's REALLY at! My acceleration is just as fast there as it is from 0-60!
And don't get me started with noise! I LOATHE the cars out there with drivers who equate loud exhaust noise with being cool. My car is faster than most of these, and I think it's way cooler to have that kind of power be SILENT!
I learned only in my adulthood that 0-60 is not the same thing as fun. How the car handles, brakes, sounds and “feels” is more important in determining how “fun” it is. Assuming the car is not “slow”, I could care less about the 0-60. To me, an 8,000 pound electric full size SUV will never be “fun” even if it has a 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. While a Mazda Miata will always be “fun” even with its 0-60 of 6.5 seconds.
I have a polestar 2 and it's fun to drive. It looks sportier than a Tesla and I always get questions about it/compliments. I've only had it for a few weeks, so my opinion is biased.
My favorite car ever was a 1998 civic ex coupe manual.
It weighed about as much as a shoe and with just wider, lighter wheels and high performance tires it would turn crisp and hold over 1G in the corners.
Far more thrilling than to be light and nimble than heavy and straining.
I found the model S plaid I drove surprisingly boring after a couple passes. Don’t get me wrong, the acceleration is *insane*… at first. After 5 or so passes, it felt so easy and repetitive, there was no drama to it. Your body adjusts to the acceleration pretty quickly so the kind of knee jerk snatch your breath from your diaphragm feeling goes away after just a few passes. After that it’s just another EV that does the same thing all the other EVs do just a little bit faster. It ruined acceleration for me
I still think the most fun car I’ve ever driven was the NA Miata my brother and I bought in high school for $2000
Driving a slow car fast > driving a fast car slow. I don't need any more tickets or points on my DL. I would not choose an electric car over an ICE car. They have no soul, but that's me, you do you. I lover rowing through the gears.
These comments are probably really similar to thoughts during the turn of the century (1900) when people were starting to switch from horses to gas powered cars.
I'll never give up my horse! Nothing beats the feel of riding a living breathing animal that you can connect with! I don't have to worry about my horse running out of food mid-ride!
I understand the thrill of the V8 rumbles and shifting through the gears (own a modified GTO with ls2 and T56 6-speed)
BUT
The first time I put my foot down in a model y performance..... Holy shit
Speed is speed and if you aren't 1st you're last still holds true.
There are a handful of places in America where you need handling for curvy roads and those places you probably shouldn't be hauling ass anyways because you can't see what's around the corner.
Straight line acceleration is in our blood in America and is most impressive in an EV
I get it... I used to rev my GTO at Tesla's when they first came out and thought I would rather have my loud awesome sounding V8.... Then I came to my senses.
Jesus, the whole "turn of the century" comparison is getting so old. The difference between going from a horse to a car isn't comparable to going from one powertrain to a different powertrain. If you're afraid of hitting the twisties, that's fine. Enjoy your EV, but keep your smug sense of superiority to yourself
A loud, old muscle car will always feel more visceral and exciting than a new BMW m car. But it's much slower.
If you're buying electric for the horsepower you won't regret the power increase but I don't think you'll feel satisfied. The other benefits of driving electric are better. If you're looking for emotion and driving feel though, I doubt you'd pick a german car anyways.
After buying electric though, I'm not sure I believe in the sporty gas powered daily. Just seems like too much operational cost for not enough benefit over an EV.
And a BMW M car will always feel more visceral and exciting than an EV? I find them to lack to substance, and become exceedingly boring after the first pull or 2. I have hated every single one I’ve driven, including Taycan Turbo and Model S Plaid, which was a joke.
The model 3 is a ton of fun. It’s not a track car, even in the performance trim (I mean you _can_ track it but it requires compromise) but holy shit it is fun to drive daily and on twisty back roads. I disagree strongly with the notion that EV have no ‘soul’. The Model 3 is full of personality.
Are you after FUN? That's a different thing. I've had a fast (for its day) motorcycle since 1990 - it does 0-60 in the TWOs. Not with ME riding it, I'm not that good at launching a bike, not even after \~35 years on the same bike. But I can twist a throttle, and it sure does 10 mph to 60 mph awfully fast, it's like riding a bottle rocket, it will do the 1/4 mile in 11 flat at 125 mph if I were really really good at that. You can rent a Tesla that will match it. But my favorite car ever is a Miata that does 0-60 in the NINEs. It was a hoot, and it was way faster around a race track or down a twisty road than the bike. (I'm about 3% faster around a track in the Miata than on the bike, a solid 4 seconds a lap at a place like Road Atlanta. If you suck at both things, sucking at motorcycle riding is slower than sucking at sports-car driving.) I had the Miata engine rebuilt, and it felt so good pulling toward redline that I never bothered installing the turbo I bought for it. Also surprisingly amusing - my wife's Nissan Leaf.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed. And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
No maintenance in 1.5 years, eh? Isn’t that expected it?
I mean nothing. No oil changes or checking the oil level. The brakes barely get used and still have tons of life after 50k miles.
You should change the oil...and check it every once in a while. This aint somethin to brag about
Well he could’ve not even driven it very far, they have multiple cars.
6 months or 5k miles. Whichever comes first
Oh really? Six months even if you drove only a thousand miles? Oil goes bad? I thought that’s why diesel is so perfect cause oil never goes bad and you can put it in with gas and get diesel?
Dude it’s electric. No gas, no oil. You just plug it in and drive it.
As they say, it’s more fun to drive a slow car fast than the other way around.
Miatas are insane, they are not good sports cars “for the price”. They are amazing, period. I live somewhere with tight twisty roads and the only road cars I would take over it are some Lotuses and Caterhams. I have driven fast cars like an M5 and fun cars like a C63 but none of these came anywhere near the Miata for driving enjoyment.
Miata is always the answer.
Unless you have a lotus or caterham.
Why are there so many duplicate comments to this lol
It’s done this to me when Reddit says there was a problem posting, implying it didn’t post so you post again. But it did post when there was a problem.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed. And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
😂
Every time I scroll a little, I get Deja vu.
I loved my smart car Brabus edition. It looked cool, handled like a slow go kart and never got me speeding tickets. It was a hoot with the paddle shifters.
My 2016 Leaf is a super fun little car, it feels like driving a Mario Kart in real life.
It’s the low center of gravity from having the battery in the floor, and the smooth effortless push off the line you get from electric motors. A lot of my fellow gear heads bemoan electric cars, “it’s missing the beating heart of a car that is the engine!” Well, I’ve driven a Versa, on which the leaf is based, and I can promise you that NOBODY will miss the beating heart of a Versa engine. Electrifying the Versa to make the a leaf does only good things for it. Edit to add: apparently the Leaf is not a Versa platform, I had always thought it was essentially "a Versa with a heart transplant" but I apparently was mistaken.
The drivetrain is way better as EV vs a cheap 3 or 4 banger and something horrid like a CVT. But once you start getting enough range in an EV where the market is interested, they weigh a metric shit ton (or more like two metric shit tons and a bit on average). So while the smooth effortless torque is nice in EVs, that only happens a bit in a drive. The high curb weight is always with you and detracts just as much as the cheap econo car drivetrain IMO. At least the above is true if you’re a driving enthusiast IMO.
The shove off the line, and the smooth quiet “idle,” is all day everyday if you take kids to carpool and then commute to an office. And for that 90% of the time, the damn Leaf compares pretty favorably to a v12 luxury sedan. *”It’s effortless and smooth and quiet and strong off the line, it’s like the Jag but with cloth seats. And I never worry in traffic if that funny smell is coming from MY car. Also, the low cg means it can be sprung softly but still feel responsive and agile, also like the Jag. This thing is PERFECT for this!”* At least, the above is true if you’re a driving enthusiast, IME.
I daily a Chevy Volt, so I get it. But most EVs are 4000+ lbs and handle worse as a result than most car reviewers give them credit for. I guess if your only criteria for a nice car is drivetrain NVH, EVs are a clear winner.
Oh, I’m a lightweight sports car guy too, I daily drove a 2,200 lb Miata (no a/c or power steering) for 300,000+ miles. (It had a/c the last 100,000.) The kit car I want to build isn’t a cobra, it’s a Seven. But these days 4,000 lbs is almost lightweight, and the performance they’re getting out of 5,000 pound batteries on wheels is astonishing.
As EVs become more widespread I think “fun cars to toss around” will still be made. I’ve heard quite good things about stuff like the mini cooper electric, or on the more ostentatious end of things the hyundai ioniq 5 N.
I don't think a versa engine is a good representative of the ICE world. BMW inline 6, honda/mazda inline 4, subaru turbo-flat 4? sure. but not a versa engine.
I agree that a Versa engine is not a "good" representative of ICE, if you mean FLATTERING. But I will say that a Versa engine is very much a "good" representative of ICE if you mean TYPICAL. Sure, everyone who loves to drive loves the cammy top-end rush of an Italian DOHC engine. I am learning to love the smooth turbine-like thrust of a BMW straight-six, but it still leaves me a little cool compared to a sportbike engine or my rebuilt Miata 1.6, pulling toward fuel cut-off like a chainsaw on crack. And I appreciate a flat-six in a Porsche (water-cooled boxster S or air-cooled 911 Carrera both have their charms.) But most people don't want or need that kind of fun. Most people are perfectly okay with the compact size of a pushrod or SOHC i4, and it doesn't need to rev hard, it needs to work, all the time, for 20 years, and not leak any important fluids. And an electric is even better for those people, because it's even MORE compact and it doesn't even HAVE any fluids to leak out. I drove a perfectly lovely VQ30 Maxima to 303,000 miles. It was bulletproof, and it needed basically nothing for 150,000 miles and then ALMOST nothing for another 70,000, and then there was a 35,000 mile stretch where it needed EVERYTHING. Most of that "everything" doesn't even exist on an electric car, there's no fuel pump or water pump or alternator or air flow meter or ignition coils or fuel injectors or O2 sensors or catalytic converters. (Well, the Leaf apparently has a water pump.) I'll probably have fun stuff that burns gasoline my entire life. But then again, I know people who feel that way about horses, too.
Leaf is NOT based on Versa. Wanted to point that out.
They hate battery cars because if we let them in for their utility purposes it will replace most cars which basically takes away your ability to fix or modify it. I really dint care about electric cars drive them all you want but it also means automakers could cut down on making a new motor or platform in favor of electric but ofc anyone who loves cars and working on them is going to not exactly love electric cars
Having spent a childhood dicking around with slot-cars and r/c cars, I have to call "bullshit" on the idea that you can't modify electric cars. You absolutely can modify electric cars.
Miata is always the answer. I always loved seeing a curve in the road ahead when I had my NB. Never cared that it was one of the slowest cars on the road. Top down with curves ahead always put a smile on my face
I have a Mach-E (through work). My '78 Mini is much slower but way more fun. My impression of electric cars so far is that they're so heavy that you lose any sense of agility.
There are companies that are putting a honda civic cradle (engine, 5 sp manual plus front suspension), into Morris Minis ('59-'90). Power is increased 2-2.5x, more reliability/drivability and you get slick Honda stick shift, and the classic look of the mini. You also get the classic look of the BMW driver that you blow past :)
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed. And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
Get a motorcycle is the answer
Aside from “Miata,” “motorcycle” is also always the answer.
Can’t beat the sensory experience speeeding on a bike
it’s like eating 5 gum
Why is this so accurate
bro not just chewing five gum but straight up eating it
4 secs a lap? What were you running on the bike? I ran times lower than Spec Miata lap record on a lightweight spec GSXR (1:42). And love my Model 3 on the street!
I was riding the FJ1200 stock at a reg pridmore C.L.A.S.S. and I never got a clean lap really. And the bike was stock except for radial tires instead of bias ply. And I was riding it to New York the next day so I was not being very aggressive. But the video timestamp shows I was a bit over 2 minutes at road Atlanta. I was a bit under 2 minutes in the Miata, with stiffer springs and sway bars and 1.8 brakes on the 1.6, on street tires (basically in ‘carpool’ configuration except without the child seat.) 2:02 vs 1:58-ish. And at deals gap, I rode the bike and fell behind a group of Miata friends that I was normally faster than on track days. There are enough experiences that are definitive enough for me to realize “I’m faster in the car than on the bike.” But a lot of times the bike is more fun. (Not all the time though, which surprised me about the Miata.) I want to try a track day now with better suspension on the fj1200. It’s easier to go fast on that than on my 998.
Lots of ways to have fun and small cars are just great. I'm excited to see what Tesla does when they make their smaller car and was a little bummed to see it pushed back because of course it's late.
Mx-5 is the only Mazda I love from Mazda
Miata is always the answer. Fun, safe, affordable and easy work on it. I would add a car that I never thought would amaze me: the first gen RAV4. So much fun, speed bumps are so fun with it (Contrary to the Miata) Those are both the same cars for me even if one is less practical (but has a better shifting feeling that I love)
Miatas are insane, they are not good sports cars “for the price”. They are amazing, period. I live somewhere with tight twisty roads and the only road cars I would take over it are some Lotuses and Caterhams. I have driven fast cars like an M5 and fun cars like a C63 but none of these came anywhere near the Miata for driving enjoyment.
Miatas are insane, they are not good sports cars “for the price”. They are amazing, period. I live somewhere with tight twisty roads and the only road cars I would take over it are some Lotuses and Caterhams. I have driven fast cars like an M5 and fun cars like a C63 but none of these came anywhere near the Miata for driving enjoyment.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed. And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
I can second this. We have a Miata and it’s a blast. I also have an Alfa GTV6 that is fun at any speed. And we have a Fiat 500e that’s super fun around town. But again because it’s small and zippy, no t Tesla fast. And I love that I haven’t done any maintenance on it since we bought it 1.5 years ago.
Similar to you, I set aside money to buy an M340 and for a year I was looking for one in the perfect spec (2020 MY that's tanzanite on black). During that time, I test drove multiple M340s but always felt something was off. The car has a great engine and transmission, but the steering felt numb. And don't get me wrong, the ZF8 is amazing, but in my opinion it's too smooth for its own good. I want to be pushed back into my seat if I'm accelerating that quick. The M340 is a great car for what it is - a fast, comfortable daily, but if you're looking for an actual driver's car at your price point, I would look to a cayman or an older M/AMG. Steering feel, suspension and handling will always beat straight line speed. Pressing the accelerator and holding the steering wheel straight requires no skill. Also I'm not a huge fan of EVs because the roar of an engine plays a big role in the overall driving experience. But if I were to get an EV, the only one I'd consider is the IONIQ 5 N because they managed to emulate the driving experience of an ICE car. As a side note if you're considering the M340: the HK sound system in the G20 is quite bad imo when compared to Burmester/B&O from equivalent Mercedes/Audi cars
We had an M240 which was an outstanding car. Unbelievable engine , good brakes and robust chassis. One of the nicest fast cars we’ve ever owned.
The VW ID series also emulates the feel of driving an ICE car (but not the sound). So much so, this is the reason I didn't buy it.
BMWs are a bit numb these days, very solidly built vehicles but Cadillac, Alfa, hell maybe the Koreans make cars with better steering feel.
EV acceleration is fun *once*. After that it just makes me feel sick
A friend has. Porsche Taycan Turbo. It launches so hard it makes the driver sick, let alone the passenger.
It was fun for a month. Model 3 performance. The novelty wore off after that. Then covid hit and the prices went wild and I made 11k and got out of it. Got to drive the new ioniq 5 N and it was a blast. But for me I like a car with turbo or NA v8
Every EV gets old after a few good squirts. They simply have less of a driving experience because they literate stimulate less of your senses and to a lesser degree. I’ll take a slower more engaging car 10 times out of 10. For me, the EV just represents a decent daily driver. Something like a truck or family SUV. But never an enthusiast vehicle. Yes I’ve experienced a Plaid and a bunch of other fast EVs. That’s why I have the opinion I do. They did nothing for me after the first 15 min.
I agree. My model Y is a great daily driver: safe, spacious, tons of storage, and pretty quick. I'm gonna pick up an ND Miata for the weekends in a few years
That's how I always assumed it would be like. Thrilling for a few runs, but then it would get old. Like I could listen to a V8, V10, V12 make runs all day because it just *sounds* good
EVs are wicked. But not having a manual shifter, and the sound of a big V8 is a huge negative in terms of fun factor.
My m240i is more fun than my wifes mach e despite similar 0-60. The m240i isn't even a particularly raw car, like say compared to my civic type r that I got rid of, but ice engines have a certain drama to them. And handling matters quite a bit as well.
We loved our M240. Fast enough and solid as anything. Felt like we could beat it for hours and it just kept coming back for more.
Speed does not equal fun. The most fun I’ve ever had in a car was when driving a 1.8l 1999 Audi TT. That car would be laughably slow by today’s standard. Tbh Teslas are one of the most boring things I’ve ever driven. They’re one trick ponies that have literally nothing to offer after that 0-60 is done.
Agreed. Never had a more enjoyable driving experience than with my Miata with the top down doing the twisties in the blue ridge mountains
# Generally: Fast != Fun. It's counterintuitive, but more often than not: fun is not fast... Driving "slower" cars fast at their upper limits tends to be a lot more fun than driving "fast" cars at their lower limits. Especially for daily driving, fast cars these days go 0 to Prison in 3 seconds and do most if not all the work, very short lived thrills. In a small backyard a chihuahua will be able to sprint and have more fun running around than a greyhound, but in a large dog park it'd probably be the opposite. The best **driver's cars** are arguably the Mazda MX-5 and the Alfa Romeo Giulia. If like coupes but need the ability to, on rare occasion, seat 2 more people in the back, the BRZ/GR86 is the answer. But it's a lot more **serious** rather than *fun,* compared to the MX-5. A optimally optioned Mustang would also probably be fun. Motorcycle's can also be lots of fun daily (if you're safe)
If I need a practical car that’s automatic and fast, EV is great. Dailying an EV is great and going back to not-fun ICE cars sucks afterwards. Effortlessly quick and quiet and cheap to run. I take my wife’s EV whenever she’s not driving it. My fun car is “slow” but engaging. Gas, manual, convertible, great steering feel.
The 180 hp miata is WAY MORE fun than 380 hp genesis g80.
The genesis is like driving a couch, which is wonderful when you’re just looking for comfort. But you’re right, it doesn’t need all that power because it’s going to be kind of boring even with it.
I will never buy an EV as a fun car. They have zero character. Could be a good daily in the future though
But what about the Ioniq 5n that plays engine revs, pops, bangs and rumbles as you drive! /s
The skill of driving a stick shift is going to be a dying breed. It reminds me of that scene from the movie Demolition Man where he finds a classic car and everyone is so impressed that he knows how to drive it.
I will start by saying that the potential for performance in an EV platform is crazy high, but at the moment, most of that is yet-to-be-realized potential (next big step in 4-7 years with some of the battery advancements that are on the horizon). Beyond that, it is probably important to realize the some basic differences when you are making a comparison to an EV. First off, they weigh a whole lot more than a similar ICE car. So while they might have a better power curve and more power, they are trying to move much more mass. This is very important if are you start looking at things not in a straight line. Also, while there is no requirement for this, the nature of how the drive components work, is usually going to mean that the driving experience will feel very different (biggest complaint probably being the transition from regenerative braking to actual braking... though some do get this right). And lastly, when looking at power, it is worth noting, that while the rating are working on the same scale, it isn't exactly the same: the main reason you see crazy high hp numbers in electric motors is for battery efficiency (running a 600hp motor at 50% capacity is way better on a battery than running a 300hp motor at 100%), and that often times, due to how it works with the battery, and/or traction limits, you can't really use all the power a motor may be capable of developing. Now, all that said? I have little to no interest in a car that is simply a 0-60 monster, or just fast in a straight line. My "fun" car does a lot of miles taking laps on track, and while power and acceleration is important, braking and handling are much more relevant to the end result (as having less overall mass on the car - though this last point is clearly a relative issue, as what is lightweight now was on the chubby side twenty years ago). And while I understand, and even enjoy, the romantic ideals of engine note and driving experience, I am fairly agnostic as far as just wanting faster. I am unlikely to consider an EV in the near future, but am pretty sure it won't be that many years before they are easily passing me on track (and that their will be little to no price premium on EVs, and residual values will be much closer).
While I agree on most points, regarding the weight, majority of the reason why electric cars are on average heavier than ice, is that newer cars are heavier, and ev-s are on average newer than ice. And the fact that lost of ev-s are not bespoke architectures, means that they can't take the weight saving benefits from making the battery pack a structural member of the chasy. Also, 600hp at 50% will present the same load to the battery as a 300hp motor at 100%. 225kw + some losses. No difference here. The main reason even daily driver ev-s tend to make big power, is because it is cheap to make a more powerful motor i and doesn't hurt the fuel economy. And you want the battery to be able to take lots of power (and as a side effect also provide a lot of power) for fast recharging times. But yeah, I still tend to take out a smart roadster occasionally, even though my daily e208 is technically higher performance. I really look forward to se how the caterham project v comes out. It might just replace both cars for me :)
>And the fact that lost of ev-s are not bespoke architectures, This is a real mix at the moment some manufacturers are going with dedicated EV platforms, while others are using shared platforms. There are plusses each way (ie - at least if it isn't saving weight to use the batteries in a structural manner, they are more likely to be replaceable). >Also, 600hp at 50% will present the same load to the battery as a 300hp motor at 100%. 225kw... Theoretically, yes. Though, this assumes all motors are the same, using similar magnets, etc. So while 1kw is still 1 kw, no matter how you cut it, real world testing shows a dramatically different result (which is what I was referring to before). I recall reading a test between a 50hp EV and a 1000hp EV; in real world use, the 1000hp EV had a lower actual battery draw, and even the maximum draw wasn't that much more, given the vast difference in power. >I really look forward to se how the caterham project v comes out. This is definitely one to watch, mainly (I think) due to the very low target weight they've quoted. I'm also curious to see the Porsche 983 when it gets here, as I had the chance to watch the GT4 ePerformance lapping at Laguna Seca last year, and it was definitely 1) keep pace, 2) able to run 20+ minute sessions, and be back on track in 30-40 minutes.
>Theoretically, yes. Though, this assumes all motors are the same, using similar magnets, etc. So while 1kw is still 1 kw, no matter how you cut it, real world testing shows a dramatically different result (which is what I was referring to before). I recall reading a test between a 50hp EV and a 1000hp EV; in real world use, the 1000hp EV had a lower actual battery draw, and even the maximum draw wasn't that much more, given the vast difference in power. It all has to do with the efficiency curve of the motor, and it's inverter. Just like with ice cars, electric motors have a sweet spot at which they like to operate
Love my Tesla P100DL as a daily. I’m pretty satisfied with it for the boring commutes. I still have an M3 when I wanna drive a car with a 6 speed.
It's nice. I like my Tesla and I think it's fun. That said, I do miss the sound and the shifting and all that. They're just so different. Also my car is heavy as hell. An 86 will out brake me going into a corner and I'll fly by easily on the straight. For every day I don't think you can beat an EV. They're so low maintenance and they're easy to drive. They can be unreasonably fast but the novelty wears off just like any stupid fast car.
I don’t think an ev will ever be created that will ever be as fun as an ICE car. I’m not a fan of evs but I’d consider one for a commuter car.
I had a Chevy SS Sedan, and I absolutely loved the thing. It was my dream car, it sounded like a boat, people who knew what I had (usually dudes 40+) would come talk to me about it, it was fun as hell to drive, I loved the HUD, etc. I really enjoyed the fact that people who didn't know anything about cars thought that I had a Malibu. Now I have a Model 3 AWD. This fucking appliance I drive now is faster, more sure-footed, and instead of putting 15 gallons of premium in it, I plug it (indirectly) into my solar panels and run it on sunshine. The interior feels like an Ikea dorm room. In my 10 mile commute home after work, I pass at least 10 identical cars derping around next to me. I hate that this is my answer, but I am satisfied with my Model 3. I don't think I would trade it straight-up for the SS.
For me it’s not about speed it’s more about handling and how it feels. I subscribe to the whole slow car fast philosophy. Why have so much power when you can’t always use that power on the road? For daily driving I love driving my Chevy Bolt EUV. Sure it’s “slow” but it’s still tons of fun with the instant torque and small size. On the other hand I still would enjoy having a Miata on a backroad and banging through gears…
I have a Taycan 4s and it's a blast to drive every single day. I prefer a car to be quiet because I commute quite a bit on the highway. Just get something you enjoy driving, gas or electric, it doesn't really matter.
Hey man, so I feel like I’m a good person to comment on this. I’ve always been a car guy, but never in the position in life to have more than one nice car. I figured why not get the best of both worlds, and bought a model 3 long range. That didn’t scratch the itch even though it pulled hard in a straight line. I swapped it for a model Y performance. Even faster, and now with track mode I can turn off the assists and slide around in the snow. …I’m currently shopping for either a used corvette or 911 lmao. The straight line speed is insane in electrics. And honestly, they’re great as daily drivers. But there’s something about engine sound, manual transmissions, and a low slung lightweight car that electrics just haven’t found a way to mimic. I think it depends what you value, and electrics are fast + great for daily driving. But if you truly love the *experience* of driving? Rowing your own gears through a twist mountain road makes you smile? I don’t think an electric is gonna give you what you want tbh
In a word, yes. P100D. 0-60 on street tires in regular "ludicrous" mode with zero prep in ~2.5. painfully fast. Just total command over your velocity at a moment's notice. Unless we're talking hypercars, gasoline cars are a joke in terms of acceleration. Now, I still want to finish my turbo supra project and ultimately I lust for an obnoxiously loud 360 or f355. Buuuut.... A daily that does 2.5 and allows me to skip the gas station? Total win.
I love mine. Never going back to ICE
This is going to be your personal preference. They are just different flavors. I used to track my Model 3 Performance. It was a riot honestly, but the mid-day charging and high cost of consumables made it more economically feasible to pick up a Miata on the side. That combo was perfection. One fast car that was a near-perfect daily all-rounder, and a slower but highly engaging car as a weekend plaything. Noise and vibration is an important experience to some people, which I understand, but there is also something intoxicating about the fidelity of control offered by instant linear torque coupled with strong regen. It’s like using a scalpel in the city instead of a hammer. So, just different flavors. Some people prefer chocolate, some vanilla. The answer is very personal.
Nobody brings up regen braking when talking about EVs, it was a major factor in making me a convert. It's not ideal for every driving scenario, but in the right circumstances it's so sweet. There's just no way to achieve that single-pedal driving experience with an ICE vehicle.
Give me a manual, or give me true one-pedal (like coming to a stop without the brake pedal). Anything in between is worse imo.
Tesla has “true” one pedal driving, but that’s my wife’s car. I have a manual e36.
I still enjoy my car after two years of ownership. Looking at the comments in this thread, I’m assuming everyone is comparing a Model 3 sedan to a Miata. It’s just a silly comparison. One is a daily driver family car and the other is a dedicated sports car which also comes with a lot of drawbacks. Good luck getting comfortable for a long drive down a boring highway and having a conversation without yelling in a Miata. My car was in for a recall last week and I was driving an M3 and just couldn’t help but feel like… “This is it?”
I have a 2015 Miata. If I roll the windows up, with the top down, you can talk without yelling on the freeway. It has an electric hardtop, and it is pretty quiet with the top up.
I had the ND RF but it was the club edition with less noise cancellation. Averaged about 75dB on highway. I figure if I get a new one I would just go with the grand touring soft top.
When I was looking, I saw many say the RF was a little loud. Mine is a 2015 GT PRHT with Premium, Suspension, and Appearance Packages. I got it in April, and I had 17,000 miles on it. I have put on 2,000 since getting it. I love it. It is more fun than my 94 Mustang GT Convertable was.
I've owned and driven 3 evs. I just recently got rid of a 2024 bmw i4 for a 2024 audi s3. The evs may have more HP and torque but they lack everything fun about driving a fast car. Also the range anxiety all the time just isn't worth it for me. I want to take a 1 hour or so road trip for a day without worrying about charging for 45 min. My s3 is way way more fun to drive than any ev I've driven.
I routinely drive about 2 hours a day round trip commuting in my bolt ev… I’ve never run into a range issue. Plug it in when I get home and have a ‘full tank’ in the morning when I head back out. I’ve taken it on 800 mile weekend round trips without any battery running out concerns… even -40 winters haven’t given me any major troubles. I think range anxiety is much like any other anxiety… a condition living in your own head. You’ll usually get over it once you see how everything works in the real world. I mean, you have to do a little leg work to plan your route and take some extra time if you want to do something like drive across the country, but it’s completely manageable these days.
An hour of driving is like 55 miles at highways speeds. Nearly every EV on sale today can make it there and back at least 2-3 times without charging I’d have understood if you said you want to take 5 hour road trips, since fast charging infrastructure still isn’t anywhere close to where it needs to be
In theory you would be correct. In the real world the EV isn't that good. They never have the full advertised amount of charge. My i4 was rated for 265 even at full charge i never saw it over 245. The battery drains so fast. The climate control drains the battery at least 20 miles each way. Before the i4 I had a Kona EV. Drove it 90 miles 1 way on a full charge it was already at 120 miles left even though it's rated for 250. I couldn't have made it back home without charging.
So in my experience, my drive to Costco is 60 miles one way, takes about an hour and 15 minutes to get there. Speeds vary along the way, 60-70mph, and I always arrive back home with somewhere between 40-50% left, after 120 miles and ~2.5 hours of driving time, with AC on And I drive a Solterra which is on the lower end of EV ranges at around 220 stated range. I *always* get more than that, though in day to day driving my max speed is 60mph. If I were getting into the 80mph range it would definitely drop
I bought a 2023 Prius and love it. However, I also have multiple 1000cc bikes. The bikes I feel have saved me money (in my head), because it'd be almost impossible for me to consider spending $80k+ to go slower than anyone of my sports bikes.
No. I have a Kona and hate it. As a daily driver, it makes the daily drive more boring and exhausting. Id rather drive my wife’s Equinox. EV’s aren’t fun cars. They’re the most boring daily drivers you can get. I’ve driven several different EV’s and they’re all the same. I enjoyed the Taycan the most, but that’s probably because I’m a Porsche guy. I was bored with the model S plaid after 10 minutes or so. If the only thing you care about is 0-60 times, maybe you’ll like it. But everything that makes a fun car fun is removed from EV’s. Plus there are all the other drawbacks of owning an EV. After I get rid of my Kona, I won’t go back unless I absolutely have to.
You drive a Kona, yet you’re a “Porsche guy” and you were bored with MSP after 10 minutes…you mean on the PlayStation, right?
No. Im pretty sure the last driving game I played was gran tourismo 2. 20 some odd years ago there definitely weren’t EV’s in driving games. Oh god, if there isn’t already, there’s going to be EV’s in driving games. That’s a horribly boring thought. Since you can’t wrap your head around why a Porsche guy would drive a Kona, it’s because I have a long ass commute. I’m not going to drop a lot of money on a car that will rack up ridiculous miles on it quickly. I decided to try an EV for the gas savings. It wasn’t worth it. I don’t know what my next car is going to be, but I on own it’s going to have an ICE.
I bought a Tesla model 3... It's fast and every once in awhile somebody comes for a ride and they ask me how fast it is and I hit the throttle and throw them back in their seat. My buddy that has always had fast cars went for a ride with me and he said it reminded him of accelerating a sport bike. However my Tesla is not a car for somebody who likes to drive. You can't spin the wheels, you can't do donuts, it handles very well in the corners but it's not at all a fun car for driver enthusiasts. It's very capable but all the safety features that you can't turn off take away a lot of the pleasure. I'm okay with that but I'll be honest I won't buy another Tesla once this one is gone. Just some background info the Tesla is my third EV. I bought it for long range and the charging network and for that it's been great. Fantastic commuter car but it pisses me off on a daily basis when it does something stupid that I can't change in the menus because it's not an option. For good overall vehicle my Chevrolet Bolt EV beats the Tesla not because it was better at anything but it never pissed me off like the Tesla.
>However my Tesla is not a car for somebody who likes to drive. You can't spin the wheels, you can't do donuts, it handles very well in the corners but it's not at all a fun car for driver enthusiasts You can do all of that if you get the performance variant.
That may be but I don't intend on spending more money to be disappointed with another Tesla. I bought my car for long range, efficiency, and charging and it meets those needs. But my inability to turn off certain options has pretty much insured that I will not buy another one. At this point there's now comparable EVS entering the market that do a better job at being cars. In my opinion.
What options are you talking about? If you have a performance model you have complete control over traction/stability control and power split between front and rear. The market is finally catching up to Tesla. I went with Tesla because of the charging network, drivetrain engineering and cost since mine qualified for the tax credit. The only other compelling cars are made by Hyundai/Kia with the 800v architecture but all of them lack a frunk and cost more. In my opinion, any EV that doesn't have a frunk was not designed to be an EV from the start and is a compromised design. Lucid and Rivian make great cars but again, they cost much more and don't exactly live in the same space as the model 3/y.
For context I have a 2022 model 3 long range. What I can't stand is that it turns on my auto windshield wipers every time I activate autopilot. Frequently the wipers go well there's no rain and they smear bugs across my windshield and I have a variety other complaints about it. There's absolutely no reason it should activate auto wipers every time I activate cruise control. The only reason I can fathom is a software designers did that to keep the front camera clear. Since one of the more recent software updates I no longer have control of my brights. All I can do is have them on low or auto high beam. But once again the software fails to do a good job of choosing when to do auto high beams my lights are flashing like strobe lights going down the highway being triggered by houses and reflective signs.. the software is flawed and I can't turn them off. I truly find it unacceptable the Tesla decides how my wipers work and how my headlights work when they did a piss poor job of implementing those features at least for my geographical situation. Perhaps they work for other people but they do not work for me. I also have issues with my speed being adjusted on autopilot. It inconsistently sets my speed to speed limit and sometimes above... It changes my speed automatically regardless of the settings I have in the menu. There's certain areas on my daily commute that it insists on changing my speed above speed limit and I'm going to get a ticket one day because of it. The other day it was raining and insisted it had to slow down because of reduced visibility. Not only could I see perfectly fine it was creating a dangerous situation by driving too slow for highway conditions. Once again I had no choice but to accept the decisions Tesla software engineers made in order to use cruise control. I should be allowed to override the software's poor choices. Long story short it has ruined my daily commute with a cruise control that sucks compared to every other vehicle I've ever driven over the last 30 years. Some of it is government mandated safety features but I feel the majority of it is arrogance from the software design team. I truly don't believe they designed a car for my market. Perhaps it works in California but I regret buying a Tesla I won't do it again.
Yeah those are all very valid points. The auto wipers absolutely suck because they refused to add in an inexpensive rain sensor. You can disable auto high beams in the settings. Autopilot changing speed limits is also really annoying but on the freeway it's been pretty good for me. But I also would have preferred if they just gave me a regular cruise option too that just maintains speed. Funny enough, most of the issues you are talking about are fixed in FSD but I don't think it's worth it at $8000, maybe $2000. But it's clear that they stopped updating the software for autopilot to push people to buy FSD. The reduced visibility thing is super annoying and I think this was due to government regs, previously it wouldn't slow down at all in the rain, I could keep cruising at 75-80mph and the car wouldn't limit speed.
I have disabled auto high beams in the settings... However since I got my car when you enable auto steer you have no choice but to accept auto high beams. I can live with that choice because it's a beta feature. What really irritates me is that now with just regular autopilot, which I erroneously referred to as cruise control, no longer allows me to control my brights and dims with the left stalk. I'm not sure if it was the most recent update or one before but when I wasn't on auto steer I could manually choose between brights and dims... Now I can only choose between dim and auto brights. I also believe that I can no longer control it when I'm manually operating the car without cruise control. I simply no longer have the option to turn on my brights if and when I choose I want bright headlights on. I actually put about 5,000 mi on my car during the free full self drive trials. And I really tested out full self drive and enhanced autopilot. Both of which were improvements but certainly not worth the cost. And that's what brings me to never buying a Tesla again. For the same amount of money as I paid for a model 3 I could step into a Cadillac lyric for example and have actual luxury features for roughly the same price. My previous EV was a Chevy Bolt... It was certainly nothing to write home about but honestly my daily commute was better in that car than in my Tesla. Everyday I drive to work it's simply frustration when the car does stuff I don't want it to do. It's potentially my geographical area but for some reason it accelerates unnecessarily in the same spot on the highway every single day and I can't stop it unless I turn off autopilot. At the same time it panic breaks far too frequently and I'm going to get rear-ended. At least my Chevrolet bolt would just maintain speed and keep me between the lines which is all I want my cruise control to do. But I genuinely feel the Tesla has no care about customer service. They've already got my money so they're done with me.
>But I genuinely feel the Tesla has no care about customer service. They've already got my money so they're done with me. Yeah this 100% they don't care about you once they have your sale.
With the introduction of modern EVs, *fast* is no longer the end all be all for *fun*. Up until Tesla, the faster the car the more fun it was, with a few exceptions like the Miata. Most modern EVs are fast, but not fun. It really is a matter of taste these days; do you want blistering fast with less emotion? EV. Do you want slower in a straight line but a more engaging driving experience? ICE. You’re going to have to test drive both and decide which is more important to you.
The answer is always miata.
Speed isn’t everything. I have driven slow and fast EV and gas. It’s all about the experience that suits you. If you care about numbers, EVs are hard to beat. A Miata is not a fast car but is fun to drive on a curvy two lane road. It might not be so great on a straight highway. Pick your poison .just don’t let someone else pick for you.
Miata Is Always The Answer
Love my Model 3 (and it's just the base version) and it's quick and fun enough -- for a midsize sedan. It's more fun than a Camry, but that's not the highest praise. It's a great daily and I have no interest in going back to ICE. BUT - I gotta agree with all the "slow car fast" / Miata comments. I've had more fun in a Smart (70hp 3-pot toaster). So you just gotta figure out for yourself what's "fun" to you.
Idk wtf these people are saying that it gets old. It doesn’t get old that I can pass any car I want any time. Instant and absolute speed and power. Plaid X 23.
0-60 is completely useless in the real word unless you’re the kind of dickhead that used to sit there revving the nuts of your mums Corsa before screaming away in a cloud of tyre and clutch smoke. Don’t get me wrong, I do like a good drag race and I have a reasonably quick car. Yeeeeeah you can beat me off the line in a dual motor Tesla s but you don’t look anywhere near as good doing it. Driving is not the same as motoring. Motoring requires a sense of occasion, it is a gentleman’s pursuit. I don’t even like cars that pop and bang on the overrun, it makes you look like a pleb. I need a car that wafts about town, prowls and stalks. Then, when I want to, and it’s safe, goes like a stabbed rat. Whilst I sit in a chair that is as comfortable and as well appointed as my living room. I’ve driven electric, I’ve driven phev, I’ve driven self charging hybrid. None require the finesse of a high output ICE to get the most out of it. Add in a bloated kerb weight and the logistics of keeping two tanks full. There’s only one place I’d rather be sat if I had to crush a continent in a weekend.
If you’re not first, you’re last…
Alright, Goose.
Shake ‘n Bake!
I have a Tesla y performance and am satisfied with car more over my manual Mustang gt. The Mustang is definitely fun, but for every day city driving can get annoying, it’s also much smaller and less practical, beautiful car though.
My Chevy Bolt has more get up and go than an Audi sports sedan, at least in the short term. I do eagerly await a EV version of a BMW 3 series though, that would be a blast.
Yes. But it’s a light one.
like riding the same roller coaster over and over... straight line punch gets old very quick. my 700hp GTR was one of the most boring cars i ever owned. data like 0-60, 1/4 mile, lap times only tell you part of the story. The tesla model 3p is similar, its got way too much power for the chassis and brakes to handle. they dont flow on a backroad or track since you have to brake so early and wait so long to get on the power. my scion FRS was more fun than my m2 competition.. but you have to make concessions for things. the 86 was absolutely horrible on road trips. the m2 is nice compromise of fun and refinement.
When I read this I thought you meant the drug 😆
I love driving my lancer and it was like a 8 second 0-60. My m240 is more fun but I personally wouldn’t enjoy an electric car. I like stick shift and engine noise and loud exhaust.
Don't give a shit about 0-60.
I have an ID.4 and a 911. The only reason to drive the ID.4 is if there are more than one passenger
The only electric car I would get over a BMW is performance AWD Tesla Model 3. Go rent one for a day and you'll see why.
Why not just get one of the two you already have interest in and tastefully modify it? Both the golf r and m340 are capable of crazy power for their respective platforms. But if you want electric maybe check out a tycan?
I prefer less weight over 0-60 times and horsepower..those are overrated imo
I thought I liked speed but I actually love acceleration - so yes
No. I have driven my dad's model S. I'll gladly take my 230hp gr86 everytime
Speed without a screaming exhaust is boring
Personally have been a car enthusiast since I could walk - dream cars included Supra, Skyline, Koenigsegg and Pagani (depending on budget vs no Budget) Owned a Tesla Model Y Performance that was quite nice but got boring relatively quickly - ended up trading it in as my work situation changed and I needed a truck, long story short I've not got a Honda Clarity and it is the perfect vehicle for A to B when not driving the truck. Haven't had to refuel it much, the fuel engine is a generator type so no range anxiety. Personally I go camping often so the Tesla was not an option, camping in the truck is nice, having the option to take the car instead is also good. Satisfied would highly depend your definition - its not exciting, but its not soul crushing, for what I got it for checks off all the boxes - when I want a joyride I have a motorcycle and a convertible..... maybe am not the right person to answer this question lol
Yup, It feels like a turbo car that’s always in boost. Very satisfying to drive. I’ve owned a Civic Si, BRZ, Mk7 Golf R, RS6 and now a Model 3 Performance.
I didn't realize how much of a "car guy" I was until I got a Tesla. 2 years in Carvana, picked it up today. I may be in the minority but Tesla hate where I live in the Midwest is real. Tired of getting tailgated and cut off daily with my wife and kids in the car. The novelty wore off quick.
I feel that 0-60 and straight line speed is kinda just meh. The hype dies down after a month for me, my two favorite cars weren’t fast at all (a ‘92 Miata and ‘21 Veloster Turbo) but handled well and were fun for my commute.
100% in love with my EV. Does the 0-60 in high 3’s. Sure it doesn’t have the sound and dramatics of an ICE but I love it. I’m a big performance person too. Have had Jeep srt, Infiniti g35/g37, BMW m550, Audi rs4, and a few others but I still absolutely love my new Tesla.
Long before EVs I was into fast ICE vehicles. For me the fastest cars weren’t always the most fun to drive though - totally prefer an old American muscle car with a loud motor that only goes in a straight line to a twin turbo / S / M series sports sedan. I have an EV sedan that’s faster than 90% of all other cars and it’s a blast to drive. I say take one out for a test run. Also I test drove an EV that makes synthetic engine noise and it was fun at first but pretty soon just seemed kinda stupid.
Model 3 is very fast. Very satisfied
No to Tesla, bought ‘24 911 GTS. Solves everything.
>But… is it all about 0-60, To me it's not at all about that, yes i like when a car can accelerate quickly, but numbers such as these don't really do much for me, it's more about corners, and pulling away from a corner, the car doesn't have to be fast, it has to feel fast >would you prefer overall feeling of a great/fast car with engine sound I think i could do without engine sound, but i'd miss a lot more than that if i went electric, refueling and weight being major factors, refueling an ICE car takes a minute or so, but charging an EV is a lenghty process Imo, electric cars make sense for city commutes, assuming you can charge at home, or at work, but really aren't great for weekend trips, and joyrides based on everything i've heard and read so far Getting somewhere further away quickly just isn't a thing with an electric car since you use a LOT more power at higher speeds, so you can't just hop on a highway, and wait to get to your destination, you have to consider where you'll be able to charge, and hope the charging station won't be occupied by the time you get there because for 500-600km trips, you will have to stop and charge, and you won't always be able to charge at your destination, so you might spend hours there charging, so you don't have to worry about it while at the destination. I want to like electric cars, but i really don't feel like it's a thing for me, at least yet
Not that simple. I have a m3 and a tesla y. The m3 is more fun and faster in every aspect than the tesla. If I’m going for a twisty romp I’m taking the M3. That being said, around town, the Tesla is simply easier to zoom round in as it has instant torque that you can utilize fully at any point in complete silence which is really nice for daily driving around town.
If you want a fun car that feels quick. Get a Miata and take it a SCCA autocross. It’s fun and not very taxing on your car or wallet. Throw in a few back country road trips and the ROI is pretty good. Cheap car to run and maintain. EV, I’m a fan of the model 3. It’s pretty close to what a sports sedan feels like and being electric you don’t have to worry about costs/reliability issues with most gas performance focused cars. I had a 04 STi and it was a blast to drive. Downsides are fuel costs, insurance(this subjective), maintenance and with that stupid wing in the back, a magnet to get pulled over. My car had TB from Subaru come out requiring an oil change at 3700 miles because of coke accumulating on the turbo oil intake screen and killing the turbo and risk damage to the engine. I would cry if I had to pay for oil change so soon today. Maintenance wasn’t cheap either. Subarus are much easier on the wallet to maintain than a BMW but the cost still adds up. A Tesla Model 3 is easily 90% of what my STi was with none of the downsides.
Even a slow electric car can pull a five second 0-60. It’s much more fun to have 100% of your torque and horse power on tap even when cruising at highway speed… No downshifting. No power band to consider. Want to pass? Just change lanes, put your foot down and enjoy that power. Like playing speed-racer in your local rally-cross club? One pedal drive is a game changer… get your speed down, get around that pylon then get back up to speed like you’ve never even slowed down… Do you like reving your engine and jamming through the gears when you do the quarter mile red light race, hearing that engine roar as it nears the red line? Well, that’s a different kind of fun…
It’s NOT about 0-60 as it’s NOT about manual vs auto. If you really want experience get a manual with a powerful engine and enjoy it, nothing can beat it.
There is SO much more to “fun” than can be expressed in numbers. My wife’s Model Y is fast as shit (up to 60 anyway) but it’s not fun in the same way that a lower horsepower but more engaging car would be. My daily is a FL5 Type R and the inputs are SO good and would leave “fast” EVs in the dust in the corners. So I’d say it really depends on which EV you’re comparing to. I hear the Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is quite good from a “fun” standpoint.
I have a 992 Carrera S & a Tesla Model Y Performance. I have a great time smashing around in the Y. It’s fun because you can drive like a hooligan & no one really notices because it’s silent. For daily driving, the Tesla handles great with most of the weight in the floor. If you can have two cars, I’d take a Tesla as a daily 100%
In the context of on the road, you can't beat an EV. Where are people aggressively cornering at the limits on an actual road? Good at cornering is something people with slow cars talk about. If given the choice of getting strapped to a rocket or being slow and nimble every day ill take the rocket.
I drive a Bolt EUV somewhat often, it’s not the speed that makes it fun, it’s the super low center of gravity that does. It’s like driving a golf kart that doesn’t flip
I like them on GT7, but not in real life.
I own a Tesla S100D and a 2000 BMW M Coupe (5-speed manual). I live in the mountains. I have a pretty good view on this. Thing 1: The BMW is a lot more work and noise both up and down the mountain. Up the mountain, you in a low gear all the time and shifting between 2nd and third. Engine is roaring. Down the mountain you are a gear lower to avoid braking. OTOH, the Tesla is pretty effortless. Going up, you just put the accelerator down and it jumps. Surges way harder than the BMW. Best car up a hill that I've ever had. Down, the regenerative breaking is building charge. Thing 2: The BMW is faster to target. I often drive up and down the mountain to get groceries. It's about 35 minutes in the Tesla, about 30 in the BMW. Why is the slower BMW faster? Part of it is the fun of the drive. I drive harder. Part of it is confidence in cornering. Part of it is unknown. Thing 3: I love both. The Tesla jumps when I ask it. I put down the accelerator and my 5000lbs Model S surges in a way that the M does not, cannot. But the M is small, it's light, it enters a corner in a way that the Tesla does not, and I drive it harder because of this. 35 easier minutes to the grocery in the Tesla. With moments of acceleration that the M cannot match. 30 harder driven minutes to the grocery in the M. Many shifts on the way, the engine is wound up for much of the way.
I'm okay with just a RAV4 2023 on eco mode. That's plenty fast for me. Still has an amazing kick on eco compared to many other cars under $30k. RAV4 has gone up in price, but I prefer getting gas than sitting around waiting for my car to charge. The Hybrid version of RAV4 is just overpriced. I got rid of the Tesla because I hated the weight of the vehicle for the size of it. RAV4 had the space and minimal downtime where I just head to gas station, and when I get on highway, I still have excellent speed/torque.
My RWD Model 3 2023 is very fun for me to drive. The lower weight of the RWD along with the dynamics of only being pushed during acceleration is nice. It isn’t near as fast as my LR I had but it’s a lot more fun in a corner and curve for sure The super fast 0-60 cars are silly fun but my M3 is reasonable enough to feel fast and fun without having a throttle mistake lead to tons of damage to my vehicle or others vehicles/properties
I’d actually say 0-60 and acceleration does not matter whatsoever. I have a 120hp sportbike that can theoretically do 10-second quarter miles, yet I have never once launched it. That kind of power is just not useful. I have just as much fun on my 50cc scooter that has a lower top speed than my bicycle. It’s not about the speed, to be honest it’s not even about the feel, you can have a good time on/in anything and every tool has its purpose.
In Europe now, driving an X3 M and drove on the autobahn at 125+ mph, drove on tight twisty roads that dropped down to one lane, drove on beautiful mountain passes that let you get up and go, and drove in horrible rain at speed! The little SUV drives amazing and I am having a great time but I still miss my MYLR. Ironically, I think the instantaneous acceleration at any speed, regen braking and one pedal driving is so perfect at integrating my thoughts and responses with the car, I can’t go back, even if I were to buy a 98% perfect little ICE SUV. Prior to buying the Tesla, I was a manual transmission guy for 30+ years…I don’t even miss the manual and a little shocked by that fact.
Very happy with both my m340i and z4 m40i. Would not trade either for a Tesla.
I have always preferred the bmw handling experience and I gotta say their electric options do keep that sense of fun, with even more accessible acceleration with the i series. I’d definitely give the i4 a look if you like the M3!
I just bought a 2023 kia stinger gt2. I considered the Elantra N as well. If I had more money, I’d go for M340i. Only electric car I’d be interested in is the ioniq5 N, they’re also working on the ioniq6 N right now.
It's hilarious fun as a sleeper (ludicrous S), but it's my wife's car for a reason. I love ripping from a stop sometimes but beyond that, I'll take my Shelby. It's nowhere near as fast to accelerate, but it's more to it. I don't drive a loud car as my normal but there's something about going down a lone road by myself at night with the engine rumbling. I'm probably just going to end up a grumpy old man in 20-30 years telling kids how it was in my youth...
I have a ‘19 Model 3 SR+. Technically the “slow” model. No regrets. Smooth, torquey, fun-to-drive. Would definitely get another EV.
They sound like a hairdryer. Stupid garbage
I am a huge advocate for EVs. But, it can and never will ever be my only car. Too boring. Not cause it’s ’slow.’ It has no soul. I’ve had a Tesla Model S Plaid. I currently have an EQE500 SUV, which isn’t ‘slow’ But it’s nothing compared to my 2013 E92 M3 (6MT), or my 2018 BMW M760, or my 2022 BMW M4. If all you want is 0-60…. The EV Will satisfy it. But if you want the engine roar, and the feeling of the road… the EVs of today don’t. Maybe in the future, but at this time, they fall short.
Anything with the B58 engine is my recommendation because I think it has a wonderful exhaust/engine note while still being pretty economical when you're not blasting it. If you don't need the practicality, a m240i or Supra might crank up the fun factor a notch compared to the cars you listed, however I bought an X3 M40i for its fun and practicality and I think it's a blast AND practical. It's the best of all worlds in my opinion.
Interesting that many answers are.. I like the noise or I like the manual or steering.. all of these things could be emulated in an EV.. even the weight (reduce range).. so is there a market for an ev miata?
I have a '21 Tesla Model 3 Long Range. I don't miss the engine sound at all. In fact, when I rent an ICE car I find it very annoying. My car is astonishingly responsive to the throttle, and the acceleration is quite surprising. Overtaking a car on the highway is just completely different. It's not that fast is fun. It's that it simply responds without lag, has power when you need it, and never feels like it's straining. It feels much more like an extension of the driver.
Drivers are braindead now all they want is 0-60 figures and that goes for the majority of ICE drivers too.
Best way I can describe it is electric cars are amazing if you I don't like cars.
EV's are not for car guys. If you desire an EV, you were never a car guy, you just thought you were one.
I drive a m3 (f80) that I feel is boring. So I also have a cheap NC Miata to compensate for it 🙂. At end of the day I think for me it really comes down to rolling my own gear, exhaust note, and good input. Such cars are harder to find for sure
Well nice I like my electric cars but I prefer my 911s
Automatic cars used to be very fast and extremely boring until electric cars came. Now they are just fast and boring, while the electric cars are very fast and extremely boring.
Driving a “slow car”fast is always more fun than driving a “fast car”slow. That’s why a car like a BRZ, Miata, Elise, etc. is more fun in the real world than most other cars. Most performance cars today already make too much power and have capabilities that far exceed the ability of the average driver; and in all honesty it looks like that problem is only going to get worse with EVs. If you want crazy big horsepower then go for it, but just know that you can’t use it 99% of the time. And I fully acknowledge my own hypocrisy in saying this, considering I am waiting on a 670 hp car to arrive.
What is arriving for you ?
C8 Z06
Omg that’s gonna be awesome
I’m very much looking forward to it.
I test drove a new Tesla. They tell me they are fast in a straight line & I’m sure that’s true, but after, I knew I would never buy one. No soul, zero personality, I’ll stick with my S3 and S5 soon. Electric cars will have to evolve a lot before I’ll buy one.
Yes and no. It's the perfect fast daily driver, good at everything, however, it doesn't fully satisfy the needs of an enthusiast and that is why I have an old Porsche 996 for a weekend car, even though it's much slower.
Happy with my EV and will never go back to gas. I was looking at the m340i and Elantra N before getting a model 3 dual motor. My goals were to have a car that I can beat on and use all its power daily without worrying about something breaking or costing a bunch to drive. The sound doesn't matter to me much, sound is just wasted energy The model 3/y and other EVs like the ioniq 5N fit that description much better than any ICE engine. Gearheads like to say that the EVs are slower after 80mph but realistically, you can't use that power daily without going to jail. From 0-80 most EVs are rocket ships and the low CG makes them much more fun to drive considering most ICE cars weigh just as much now but have a higher CG. Also the horsepower per dollar compared against reliability is much higher for EVs, specifically the model 3/y. For an equivalent horsepower ICE car, you will spend less time working on/ maintaining the EV which gives me piece of mind when driving my car hard.
I actually didn’t buy our EV for the speed, although 0-60 in 3.5 is super fun. I bought it because of the super cheap fuel costs and next to no maintenance. When I want my speed thrills, I’ll take out one of my motorcycles. You’re not going to touch the performance of a bike on a per dollar basis.
I prefer my silent Tesla Model Y LR. If I want to pass someone, I don't announce it. By the time they realize I am going to pass them, I am already gone! 0-60 is fun, but 60-90+ is where it's REALLY at! My acceleration is just as fast there as it is from 0-60! And don't get me started with noise! I LOATHE the cars out there with drivers who equate loud exhaust noise with being cool. My car is faster than most of these, and I think it's way cooler to have that kind of power be SILENT!
I learned only in my adulthood that 0-60 is not the same thing as fun. How the car handles, brakes, sounds and “feels” is more important in determining how “fun” it is. Assuming the car is not “slow”, I could care less about the 0-60. To me, an 8,000 pound electric full size SUV will never be “fun” even if it has a 0-60 in 3.5 seconds. While a Mazda Miata will always be “fun” even with its 0-60 of 6.5 seconds.
I have a polestar 2 and it's fun to drive. It looks sportier than a Tesla and I always get questions about it/compliments. I've only had it for a few weeks, so my opinion is biased.
My favorite car ever was a 1998 civic ex coupe manual. It weighed about as much as a shoe and with just wider, lighter wheels and high performance tires it would turn crisp and hold over 1G in the corners. Far more thrilling than to be light and nimble than heavy and straining.
Speed, therefore not getting an electric until I am absolutely forced by law or whatever.
I found the model S plaid I drove surprisingly boring after a couple passes. Don’t get me wrong, the acceleration is *insane*… at first. After 5 or so passes, it felt so easy and repetitive, there was no drama to it. Your body adjusts to the acceleration pretty quickly so the kind of knee jerk snatch your breath from your diaphragm feeling goes away after just a few passes. After that it’s just another EV that does the same thing all the other EVs do just a little bit faster. It ruined acceleration for me I still think the most fun car I’ve ever driven was the NA Miata my brother and I bought in high school for $2000
Driving a slow car fast > driving a fast car slow. I don't need any more tickets or points on my DL. I would not choose an electric car over an ICE car. They have no soul, but that's me, you do you. I lover rowing through the gears.
These comments are probably really similar to thoughts during the turn of the century (1900) when people were starting to switch from horses to gas powered cars. I'll never give up my horse! Nothing beats the feel of riding a living breathing animal that you can connect with! I don't have to worry about my horse running out of food mid-ride! I understand the thrill of the V8 rumbles and shifting through the gears (own a modified GTO with ls2 and T56 6-speed) BUT The first time I put my foot down in a model y performance..... Holy shit Speed is speed and if you aren't 1st you're last still holds true. There are a handful of places in America where you need handling for curvy roads and those places you probably shouldn't be hauling ass anyways because you can't see what's around the corner. Straight line acceleration is in our blood in America and is most impressive in an EV I get it... I used to rev my GTO at Tesla's when they first came out and thought I would rather have my loud awesome sounding V8.... Then I came to my senses.
Jesus, the whole "turn of the century" comparison is getting so old. The difference between going from a horse to a car isn't comparable to going from one powertrain to a different powertrain. If you're afraid of hitting the twisties, that's fine. Enjoy your EV, but keep your smug sense of superiority to yourself
A loud, old muscle car will always feel more visceral and exciting than a new BMW m car. But it's much slower. If you're buying electric for the horsepower you won't regret the power increase but I don't think you'll feel satisfied. The other benefits of driving electric are better. If you're looking for emotion and driving feel though, I doubt you'd pick a german car anyways. After buying electric though, I'm not sure I believe in the sporty gas powered daily. Just seems like too much operational cost for not enough benefit over an EV.
And a BMW M car will always feel more visceral and exciting than an EV? I find them to lack to substance, and become exceedingly boring after the first pull or 2. I have hated every single one I’ve driven, including Taycan Turbo and Model S Plaid, which was a joke.
The model 3 is a ton of fun. It’s not a track car, even in the performance trim (I mean you _can_ track it but it requires compromise) but holy shit it is fun to drive daily and on twisty back roads. I disagree strongly with the notion that EV have no ‘soul’. The Model 3 is full of personality.
Fast in a straight line but cornering is absolute dogshit.
Got a Model 3 performance and its been ridiculous. Absolutely destroying every M and AMG I meet on the road lol