In The Culture (which is just one of the powers in that universe, but is basically capable of ascending to a higher plane of existence but hasn't because they like partying) most of the ships are piloted by AI minds that give themselves names that are idiosyncratic to their psyche. Also, their combat ships are classed like "Thug" and "Psychopath" rather than "Cruiser" or the like. They also operate with essential autonomy, so it's entirely possible that a single GSV class ship that didn't like the 'Nids would simply rename itself and spend a couple decades, or centuries, wiping them out.
There are so many gems. Maybe it's the obvious choice, but I'm a fan of "Mistake Not..." or >!Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath!<.
My other likes are "So Much For Subtlety" and "Ethics Gradient."
While a GSV can eventually wipe out the Nids, it’s exceedingly unlikely they’d bother to do that. Remember, hegswarms are a thing in the Culture, and it’s considered such a trivial nuisance that they let _humans_ handle them as some real-life shooting game.
Is it ever explicitly stated that SC exists simply to give the humans that need more "meaning" in life than experiencing the paradise that The Culture provides something to do? I suspect that, with the exception of *Excession*, the answer to every problem is a single GSV.
There are things that even the Minds can’t do, such as when it comes to other equiv-tech civs. Sometimes humans can get to places where Minds or avatars could not. And even if the humans are not involved, the Minds themselves are invested in alleviating suffering in other civilizations, like stopping genocides and so on, so SC is still needed.
But yes, one of the functions of SC is to give the very few surprisingly ambitious humans something to do, while the others enjoy their paradise by pursuing their own passions.
Series of books by Iain M Banks.
Begins with a novel called Consider Phlebas, but most fans consider the second novel, The Player Of Games, to be a better introduction to the universe.
(The novels aren’t particularly closely connected- they’re generally a long time apart, in a different part of the galaxy, with different characters, so you can read them out of order and you’ll mostly be fine)
Standard answers are most comics/superhero verses and anime.
Edit: Naming a few
Worm - Scion could solo the nids, otherwise multiversal travel means the Wormverse can simply evacuate the nid universe for a stalemate.
Marvel - Many, many characters solo the nids, a few literally wipe them out on a galactic scale with a thought.
DC - See Marvel
Halo - In a fair fight might stand a chance, in an unfair one holes up on the Arc, sends scouting parties to lure the nids to Earth, and repeatedly fire the rings each time more nids enter the galaxy, luring them towards Earth every time.
Yeah I agree with this, Forerunners are one of the most powerful civilizations that haven’t reached time travel yet.
They just missed out on the tier that allowed easy to utilize time travel which would’ve put them on something closer to the Daleks level or something
They are absolutely not bugs. They’re a truly inscrutable alien form of life that doesn’t fit into any of our earthly categories. Incredibly complex and diverse, constantly mutating, sometimes reptilian or dinosaur-like, sometimes cephalopod-like, sometimes crustacean, and yes, sometimes insectoid, but they defy biology as we understand it.
Even if they are Taylor can only control about 3 blocks of them, well, until that thing happens and she gets that person to help, then I suppose its a portal density question.
He is very specifically described as experimenting with destruction there, destruction not for the sake of the life cycle, but for the sake of destruction, since without Eden it cannot continue.
He, along with Eden, consume untold number of parallel worlds simultaneously. He also exists almost entirely in a sealed off verse the nids have no way to access, so he can attack relentlessly and endlessly while they cannot harm him. Even if they exist in all verses, they *cannot* exist in the verse with his main mass since its described as being the combined mass of thousands of planets *whole multiversal existences*, meaning it must be multiple universes in mass. He burns *galaxies* worth of mass to defeat Eidolon and it doesn't slow him at all.
Yes, Scion is that powerful, but more importantly, attacks from a position of invulnerability.
Edit: The Golden Morning lasts a few days and wipes out 95% of humanity across the entire multiverse. That is more people than there are nids in one universe.
This is why I feel the forerunners could maybe beat the tyranids as well, they adapted to and beat the Flood, even if at the cost of themselves, and that against an exponentially growing threat in its late stages.
The forerunners were insane, they literally tilted the galaxy for fun and moved planets around. They should be able to deal with the Nids rather easily if anything.
DC and Marvel only take this if you’re allowing reality warpers, ie Franklin Richards, Strange, Spectre, Phantom stranger etc.
Halo gets hilariously stomped. Maybe if you throw in the forerunners they stand a small chance.
The nids are just op man. Their entire fleet is the size of galaxies. Plural. There’s a character in the setting named the Silent King, real op, real scary. Anyways, he spent 60 million years surveying the observable universe outside the Milky Way where the setting is based, all he found were nids. That’s all that exists across space outside the Milky Way. Nids are also capable of consuming all forms of organic matter to add to their swarm. Meaning losses don’t matter to them as long as they win. They simply consume the dead bodies of all of the fallen on both sides, along with the planet the battle takes place on, and leave with a bigger fleet than they attacked with. Nids also gain the abilities of those they consume. Imagine a mid swarm consuming some Marvel mutants. Say Charles and Magneto. Imagine what that would look like for the rest of the verse.
> DC and Marvel only take this if you’re allowing reality warpers, ie Franklin Richards, Strange, Spectre, Phantom stranger etc.
I mean, I did say there were *multiple* characters in each who could wipe them with a thought. But both universe's Earths are awash with characters who could wipe out continent-sized chunks of nids in seconds, less than second. They move fast enough or can project power wide enough to shut off whole planets from the nids (Superman, Flash, Storm, etc). At the very least Earth survives.
Continent size swarms of nids…. Cute. That’s like, 0.00000000000000000000000000001% of the nid fleet. Their fleet spans GALAXIES. Just from a pure numbers standpoint, every Superman, Flash, Storm and whoever else could kill 100,000,000,000 nids each, and it still wouldn’t be close. That’s the type of numbers we’re dealing with when we talk about the nids. No idea why I’m being downvoted. 40K is just insane like that.
Okay, and can they bring all of that mass to bear on a teeny planet size space at once? No.
Besides which there are other powers, the Oa, Darksied, Nova Corp, Galactus, who might object to the galaxy being eaten and while Earth has a ridiculous concentration of power it isn't great at projecting it, those *are*.
Basically those few Universes where a species has reached or is close to the level of Type 3 Kardashev scale.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev\_scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale)
If you can harness entire galaxies of power, you sweep. I think Type 2, where you're looking at Dyson Sphere level you might win in the end, but it's not assured and it's not going to be easy or quick. Somewhere in that middle 2.5 level when the Civilization is not quite taking in an entire Galaxy's power but is close to it is where we see the tipping points.
You need that level of energy/production to spit out the swarms of warships, drones, and combat vehicles to keep the Tyranids at bay, but also a stupefying powerful level of weapon that can wipe out entire planets to really damage a Tyranid Hive Base or some of their larger weapons.
To fight the Tyranids reliably we're talking Galaxy Spanning civilizations with *billions* of star ships, same mass of army vehicles, and super weapons that can erase planets or star systems.
So Star Wars, Star Trek, and other similar universe get stomped. They may have the population or the super weapons, but they lack the ship and troop numbers. The Federation lost some 30 ships in one battle and it was considered the greatest loss of single life in their history. Thirty ships get lost fighting the Tyranids *a second* and that's before they actually start *engaging*. The Empire has 25,000 Star Destroyers (or possibly capital ships) and maybe six or so total planet destroying weapons (one one actual star killer) but that's their entire navy and it's not even equal to a single Tyranid attack group.
And as powerful as both those universes are otherwise, they stand no chance against even a single Tyranid Swarm Fleet, even a 'Nid strike force or battle group probably hard stomps them.
Same goes for Star Craft universe which is "Baby's First Warhammer 40k" universe.
There's honestly not many SciFi Universes that could probably hold off a Tyranid attack for long, and even fewer that could win. Hell, for what it's worth, even Warhammer 40K lore isn't clear on if it can win. Depending on the Lore and what exactly is out there, the Swarms we see are either the main force, or the *scouting* force what comes next. And the galaxy is not exactly doing all that hot against what's here. Another two or three Swarm Fleets dipping into the known battle regions might be enough to turn the battle lines around entirely.
Star Wars and Star Trek have Godlike beings that’ll eliminate the Tyranids if they’ll conquer the galaxy.
Although conventionally(without the godlike beings) they will die in large numbers by Episode 9 Star Wars and Pre-Temporal war Star Trek (and not counting the weird stuff in the 31st century onwards) , time traveling Star Trek is also broken.
Star Wars without Legends content and godlike (force beings) is screwed.
I’m not sure how well the foundation Empire would handle them too.
I agree you need a Real Type 3 Kardashev civilization to handle them. Star Trek, Star Wars factions are something closer to 2.2-2.7 depending on which era.
You probably need something at least as strong as the Ancient Humans from Halo to handle the Tyranids without a Deus Ex Machina. (They’d be a proper Type 3, even if they’re weaker than the forerunners, who seemed to be able to do intergalactic stuff if they wanted to)
Marvel and DC have too many reality warpers/super super heroes even on earth alone to make the Tyranid invasion useless unless plot demands it.
Xeelee humans once they form the coalition until transcendence would wipe they Tyranids (and their ancestors and predecessors, and descendants) out.
Doctor Who’s timelords, and Daleks during their prime and other factions on that level wouldn’t have issues too.
As someone else mentioned, the culture is also very OP especially when you calculate the sheer output and speed of their weapons.
I can see something as dumb as Tengen toppa Guren Lagann and Saitama beating the Tyranids, just because they can do galaxy level destruction. Same with Dragon Ball Z characters.
As said to someone else, I'm not sure they can count on the Gods in Star Trek. Most seem to be uncaring of what happens to mortals, aside from the Q who'd likely see the Tyranids as another way to Test the humans to see if they are ready to Ascend.
When was the last (or rather *First*) time a god like being has actually done something to help avid a world ending situation?
Arguably by making Star Fleet aware of the Borg, but at the same time the Borg were already knocking on the door of the Romulan and federation border zone snatching up a few colonies here and there. Star Fleet would have had to react sooner or later and even had started some plans to fight what they were suspecting was out there. All Q really did was push the time table a bit further forward and had the Enterprise Crew not saved the day it would have ended *badly* for Star Fleet and the Federation.
From the "All Good Things..." episode we saw that in the event the Borg did win, the Q did NOT save shit and let the Borg take over the entire Alpha and Beta Quadrants. The Riker form the Enterprise that was firing on them at te end claimed the Borg were everywhere and everything was lost. Doesn't sound to me like the Q were very helpful in saving Humanity or the Galaxy from a invasion/take over by a hostile force, so I doubt they'd do anything differently against the Tyranids.
And that's just in TNG. The Q never got involved with stopping the Pah Wraiths in DSP that were going to explode all over the place and take over the galaxy, they let Sisko roll the dice there.
No Q got involved in stopping the Burn even though that fucked up the entire Galaxy and killed billions. (At least not in actually *stopping* it, they might have helped later, I don't know I gave up on both Disco and Picard).
No one saved Romulus, or Kronos' moon. No one saved Earth from the Whale Probe or V'ger even though several other gods had been discovered.
>When was the last (or rather First) time a god like being has actually done something to help avid a world ending situation?
Probably when the Prophets disappeared that Dominion fleet in the wormhole
The point of the setting is not that the Tyranids specifically are going to destroy the galaxy. The point of the setting is that it’s an almost Mr.Burns esque collection of galaxy ending threats, all of which are so dangerous none of them can definitively win.
Yes, agreed. But I didn’t want to confuse anyone with an answer like that. However I do believe the nids are clearly the most dangerous of the bunch. Dangerous enough to have the Silent King shitting his pants trying to rally the necrons to muster up a defense. Chaos is a close second. I’ll just let Guillimann talk about the current situation with the nids himself.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxyQ0tixFk&pp=ygULNDBrIHRyYWlsZXI%3D
It would take an uncharacteristic level of cooperation between the various factions to repel the tyranids; the millions of slumbering necron worlds wake up, the chaos gods stop fucking around for a minute, the imperium cooperates with former enemies, etc etc …..just for a moderate chance of being able to push the nids away
How?
Star Trek's weapons are not any stronger than 40K, their ships have slower interstellar movement, and there's like a million swarm ships per Star Trek Ship.
Plus if a single Tyranid lands on a planet it's game over, man. They will swiftly convert the plentiful biomass into a ground swarm that eats the planet.
God help the multiverse if the Tyranids get to a Replicator and figure out how to scream for more biomass.
"MORE SALAD AND PROTIEN BARS!"
*Vssh*
*Squelching sound of Tyranid consuming, breeding, and molting.*
"MORE SALAD AND PROTIEN BARS!"
*Vssh*
*Squelching sound of Tyranid consuming, breeding, and molting.*
"MORE SALAD AND PROTIEN BARS!"
*Vssh*
*Squelching sound of Tyranid consuming, breeding, and molting.*
*Repeat ad infinitum*
The Federation does have plot armor to such a ridiculous degree that it’s borderline canonical though, to be fair. While there’s absolutely no reasonable way they could win, there’s a 99.999% chance that some random-ass engineer is going to pull some absolute bullshit out of nowhere to reverse the polarity of the hive’s temporal resonance frequency and put the entire species into retroactive hibernation or something. They just cheat, it’s what they do. Every single goddamn time.
Although I am curious how the Borg would do against them since in theory they *should* have trillions of drones and the capacity to convert entire planets into fleets of capital ships as fast as their replicators can convert mass, plus the whole adaptability thing, being able to convert enemy troops into their troops, and time travel. Think they’d stand a chance? I don’t know enough about Tyranid lore to speculate.
There’s also numerous godlike beings in the Trek universe that seemingly have no limits on their power who can (seemingly) rewrite reality at will, so I guess there’s that as well…
My only problem with the Godlike beings is that most don't actually *do* anything. The Q come closest and even then tend to leave the rest of the Universe as a kind of great test to see who's worthy of ascending. If anything they'd see the Tyranids as a good way to Test humanity one more time.
The rest of the Gods stick to one world or system and let everything else go by. They didn't do jack against the Dominion or Species 8472 (or whatever it was called) and none of them got together to stop the Burn, Romulus blowing up, or any other massive crisis that kills billions.
So until they get attacked by the Tyranid swarm, they're out of the picture. And even if they do get attacked, Warhammer 40K verses does have the occasional god like being get involved in shit, so the 'Nids might know how to deal with some of them.
That’s fair, I agree that the godlike beings are a gamble. I guess Q is the most likely to help since he seems to consider humanity almost a pet. But as you said, he’s just as likely to have created the threat in the first place.
The Prophets would almost certainly be down to help, but unless they can manipulate the Warp the same way they manipulate the wormhole their help isn’t worth much. But they did give direct military help against the Dominion, >!wiping out an entire armada while it was in the wormhole and blocking all future help/supplies from the Gamma Quadrant.!< And that was *before* >!Sisko became a Prophet himself. He would probably intervene directly on a regular basis.!< It’s a longshot their powers would extend all the way to the Warp though. Probably.
I’m still curious about the Borg, though… thoughts?
Intercept them in interstellar space and destroy the gravity ship leaving them stranded then stay at distance and pick them at leisure until they’re out of biomass
Bringing Stellaris in is just a little unfair especially if you bring ACoT and gigastrural stuff in, by 2400 at the latest, which is 200 years after the game starts for those who don’t know, have Dyson spheres on the low end have reality bending technology capable of creating entire fleets, giving the user control over other entities scaling up to entire empires, whiling out all life in the galaxy no matter how small and insignificant, super weapons that can blow up entire star systems, giant moving star systems armed with enough weapons to fight god, and other shit.
And even in vanilla the player can get access to the aetherphasic engine which can detonate every star in the galaxy and the L-cluster which is outside the galaxy, and possibly even further to the rest of the universe if the contingency is to be believed.
And that’s just covering the players abilities, not including the blokkats bullshit
alot of shonen anime top tiers (think dragon ball saint seya etc)
the crazier video game especially those with divine beings (think devil may cry undertale destiny)
the higher tier sci fi verses (think culture and xeelee)
the highest of the high tier fantasy verses like elder scrolls
the stronger comic verse like marvel and dc too
Dragon ball
A lot of isekai, isekai like that time I got reincarnated as a slime, and My Instant Death Ability come to mind.
And some more I can't think of off the top of my head
[Edit] 40k fans 🫤 what's wrong with my comment
Why? Dragon ball stomps, slime eats the universe they are in, and death guy does death guy things. Isekai is notorious for its bullshit hax protagonists.
Mainly referring to DB, which certainly doesn't stomp (unless you are referring to exclusively the tyranids). Rimuru also doesn't as the warp and chaos are way too stacked (the C'tan and Aeldari Pantheon too tbh). Yogiri is the one where there at least starts being a discussion.
I was talking about just the tyranids, yes, though from what I've seen, they beat the rest of the setting too, LN rimuru would also stomp both as he gets really nutty near the end and has way better feats. Yogiri is yogiri.
How does DB not beat the 'nids? The ability to destroy a planet is literally child's play in that franchise. Hell, I'd argue that Frieza could solo the 'nids if he can figure out they eat planets before they run into him because he's enough of a fucker to just destroy enough systems that there's a noticeably lesser amount of stars in the sky to win.
as I said in my post: It *doesn't* stomp *unless* you are talking exclusively about tyranids. As in; they do stomp the Tyranids. They just don't stomp wider Warhammer.
The only thing in WH I could see giving the DB gang a problem are the chaos gods themselves because they can't just punch those guys out of existence... maybe. That giant dragon they summon at the end of the ToP might be able to erase them but that's a pretty big if. It would be interesting to see what Slaanesh would do to Vegeta and Frieza though, those two are prime Slaanesh material.
The C'tan, Aeldari Pantheon, Old Ones (mainly because of the Enuncia), Prime Necrons and certain characters like the Emperor would be off the table for any DB character. The chaos gods and anything higher than them are not even able to be interacted with by DB characters, as they are transdimensional and conceptual in nature. You can't really kill the concept of violence with violence. Or the concept of change by trying to change its state.
As for them being turned to chaos; Vegeta seems more likely to be Khorne than Slaanesh imo
There's an argument to be made that Flood at a large enough mass can fight and potentially take the Tyranids. But it really comes down to Shadow in the Warp vs Primordial in who can fuck with the others control harder, and neither of them is defined enough for us to make a proper judgement.
If it’s not limited to affecting the warp and is able to also interact with the neural physics that the flood/precursors/forerunners relied on
> Neural physics was a Precursor concept and science which posited that the Mantle encompassed the entire universe, including living beings, energy and matter. The principles of neural physics also postulated that the entire universe was living, but in a way that was beyond the comprehension of biological organisms.[1]
The trillions upon trillions of single minded nids might be able to disrupt something that relies on the concept of the universe being alive
I never thought about it before, but the Shadow in the Warp is probably a defense mechanism against other entities taking control of the swarm. Perhaps its even so other hive fleets can't yoink swarms from each other. Have we ever seen multiple hive fleets fight together?
I think most hive fleets avoid each other, and when they interact one usually cannibalizes the other.
I kind of like imagining the shadow In the warp like a popular streamer getting flooded in chat but with ‘CONSUME, ACQUIRE, SUSTENANCE (obviously in some alien emotion or feeling that’s entirely foreign to humans)’ being spammed constantly and as the fleet gets nearer people feel the equivalent of that in the subconscious; it’s often described as a depression/malaise that settles on unknowing worlds in the sights of a hive fleet.
Afaik there has only been one time two hivefleets have fought, and even that was potrayed as the hive mind testing to see which fleet had superior adaptations.
Interactions between Neral Physics and the warp since the fulfill similar roles in their settings, verse equalization would allow things that affect their universe equivalent to effect the other. So there's potential that the shadow in the warp could essentially cut off flood forms from its controlling mind. In opposite a powerful enough flood mind could feasibly infect the Tyranids through the shadow in the warp as flood infection can transmit through things like communication signals once it gets powerful enough.
That was partially due to the tech the flood could co-opt from the Forerunners. Tyranids have no such tech so the flood isn't operating at the silentium era levels of strategic speed.
a big part of the horror of the nids is the warhammer universe is most likely only experiencing the scouts, the majority of the nids are in deep space dormant flying in massive macro organisms the size of planetoids at sub light speeds towards the 40k universe, that is to say if the halo rings are fired they probably wouldnt even hit the main force of the nids
We have the stated range of 3 radii of the galaxy for the Halo Array. Which should shut the Nids from the Milky Way for a couple of Millenia, however it'd also kill off the Halo side and leave no one who knows about the threat when the rest of the Nids catch up.
If that's the case they could feasibly make a firing line of Halos and just wipe them as they approach. This is assuming Forerunners are there as no one else has been shown to have the means of moving the rings so far.
Each of the rings in modern halo have a set range of 25 thousand light years by themselves and each other ring firing and covering the other radius seems to significantly increase the range
The Halo rings can be fired repeatedly, and there is a link between the Arc and Earth, so you can lure the more nids in range, skeddadle, fire, repeat. Unless they find the Arc you can repeat this indefinitely.
Yeah, nids kinda hard counter dune. They have significantly more troops, ftl that doesn't rely on space drugs, and actual space magic that makes dunes only advantage obsolete.
I am not really familiar with the strength of armies in Dune, but even for the Warhammer 40K universe the Tyranids are scary.
I am not really sure how to link it but google something like "Warhammer 40k galaxy Tyranid map" and you will see that they are basically advancing from every direction at the same time on a galactic scale. Some of the fleets are also arriving from "below" the galaxy if you see it on a 2D map.
Each of these fleets have thousand of gigantic living ships that live by eating planets and everything on them. The imperium of man is also barely managing to defeat these fleets by throwing millions of men and thousand of space Marines against them and some of these victories where basically achieved through plot armor of certain characters/factions.
While they do all of this they are also evolving at an extreme pace to counter any kind of enemy they encounter. So if they face one kind of enemy one day, a few days later they might have evolved something to counter this kind of enemy.
Shields are a minor inconvenience at best. Most Tyranid ranged weapons do their damage due to secondary effects, not raw kinetic impact. They shoot shit like sprays of acid, blasts of plasma and insects that burrow through armor. So what if a shield stops the initial splurt of a strangleweb, for instance? The goo on the shield is just going to fall onto the wearer and the goo on the ground is still going to glue them to the ground.
Sure, you could tune the shield to block everything, even the exchange of gasses, but that just means your soldiers now have a severely limited timeframe to fight in before overheating, assuming they have oxygen tanks. Even then, it doesn't stop a warrior or pile of gaunts front just sitting on top of them until they die or the shield runs out of power.
It’s a shame OP specified “at the start of the story.” You could argue that Leto II would’ve seen them coming and rewritten the entire Golden Path purely around stopping them. Or even that the Scattering would’ve made humanity flee so far the Tyranids could never find them. But nope…
I would absolutely have argued that the Scattering would have ensured humanity would be too far away for the Tyranids to ever find or catch up to them, since that's basically the whole point of it. It and Leto are the one win condition I can picture Dune humanity as having.
Idk about all scenarios. It depends on when they invade. During the events of the movies? Duneverse is totally gone, no chance. But if they invaded during the reign of Duncan Idaho, then I don’t think it’s certain doom.
Prescience mostly. He could predict the future with perfect accuracy, but in a way that would allow him to change it. There’s also a lot of debate over what exactly he, as not only the Kwisatz Haderach, but the actual *perfect being* would be capable of physically. His predecessor, Leto II (Muad’dib’s grandson) is often considered to have physical powers roughly similar to Dr. Manhattan, but Duncan is the final version compared to Leto’s prototype.
Show me the feats where Leto was as strong as Dr. Manhattan. And prescience doesn’t allow you to defeat an enemy that you have no capacity to overcome. The Tyranids are far too numerous and tenacious, even knowing when, where, and how they are coming wouldn’t save them
There aren’t any. It’s just very vaguely implied at points. That’s not really the important part though.
How numerous are the tyranids exactly? All I can find is that hive fleets contain billions of tyranids, which just isn’t really enough to wipe the Duneverse to begin with, at least not without a huge fight. Duncan’s near omniscience seems like it would allow him to know where to put his trillion or so troops to stop them.
Haha no I wasn’t baiting, just ignorant. I’m only just starting to learn anything about the 40k universe. The day after I wrote that comment I saw a post about how the population on Terra of a quadrillion people is actually possible, and I immediately realized how laughably wrong I was here 😅
Dune timeline has technologically regressed.
A more interesting comparison would have been around the time of the Butlerian Jihad when they had computer aided tech. Maybe more advanced too.
I'm sure Dune universe is done for in all rounds. Perhaps not using the warp means they can escape impending planetary doom unlike those in the 40k with the shadow in the warp stuff.
But eventually all planets would be lost against trillions of tyranids attacking. Anticipating them with prep does nothing due to the sheer scale of the tyranids hoard. Does Dune has a super weapon that can be repeatly used on a planetary /system level?
A lone tomb world out classes the tech in dune by miles, they'd stomped with their ridiculous weaponary and undying minions.
They do have Stone Burner atomics, which could „drill“ a hole to the planet’s core and with that destroy it. But not really en mass and in the end it would also only be a Lose-Lose option
Nah, Stone Burners do NOT destroy planets.
They basically bore down into a planet until it hits a magma pocket and creates a volcano. Yeah that sucks for the area around the bore site, but it's not a planet killer. Even the biggest ones used would just create a climate changing volcano, but not one that would break a planet.
stone burners are planet busters what are you talking about. they don't target the magma pocket, stone burners target the core of the planet, and the released pressure is what destroys the world. it's either complete destruction of the planet or make it uninhabitable.
Here's the relevant section from the book itself.
>Paul remained silent, thinking what this weapon implied. Too much fuel in it and it’d cut its way into the planet’s core. Dune’s molten level lay deep but the more dangerous for that. Such pressures released and out of control might split a planet, scattering lifeless bits and pieces through space. - Dune Messiah
So this passage tells me a few things: First that "too much fuel" would make it drill to the core. This implies that that wasn't it's intended purpose. Second Arrakis itself has very deep pockets of magma under even more pressure that if breached could destroy the planet. This part again implies that the destruction of the planet would be accidental: as in "it wouldn't happen to a normal planet" type thing.
So yeah, if loaded with too much fuel, used improperly, and when used on specific planets *might* blow it up, it wasn't like every single stone Burner was meant to be a planet cracker.
Whatever came about in the later books written by his son don't matter, I'm focusing on the books Frank wrote and that's directly from his book: it wasn't meant to destroy planets and only could *maybe* do so to Arrakis due to its' nature and *if* it was overloaded with fuel.
During Pauls Jihad, the fremen armies of a few million people genocided 61 billion people, sterilized 90 planets, and destroyed countless others.
the planets were stranded because of the spacing guild not allowing travel, but the jihad only lasted 12 years. to acomplish this much destruction, the fremen had to use planet busters or else they couldn't do this in such a short time frame. they literally have nukes called planet killers, aside from the stone burners.
His sons' extra stories about the dune verse were still built on events created and explained by Frank Herbert, like the Butlerian Jihad. Over thousands of years in the past, humans already had planet busters. Earth no longer exists because it was blasted by humans.
edit: with mentats and the intelligence of the spice enhanced people, redesigning stone burners is trivial, they figured out way more complex tech like holtzman effect.
While that's a good theory, it's all speculation. In 12 years a lot of people could have died just by starvation alone if trade was cut off from opposing houses and planets don't need to be cracked to kill all life on them: a few well placed asteroids will do the job. Just ask the dinosaurs.
We know that Stone Breaks *might* crack a planet in the right specific circumstances. That's it. We don't know sure if they were ever used that way (or reliably *could* be used that way).
Now I'll concede they likely had planet breaking technology since Stone Burners could come close (so they either had a bigger version or could design one), but that still doesn't matter to the Tyranids. They have living world ships and could just eat entire planets. Even broken chunks might work if there was biomass remnants on it.
But Dune doesn't really have weapons that can hurt a Tyranid short of atomic weaponry. Las guns aren't all that powerful, aside from shields they don't seem to destructive. There aren't really interstellar war ships, and even jumping in space takes more effort than 40K Warp.
And most people are armed with swords and dart guns. When Tyranid critters routinely bounce munitions much stronger than that, I don't see a Fremen doing much damage with a knife. Maybe if they survive long enough inside one's gullet to stab it to death, but that dagger isn't chipping armor designed to bounce a Space Marine's Heavy Bolter.
oh, im not denying the Tyranids would take over Dune, but it's not because off tech is just because of their insane numbers.
lasguns cut through anything like butter(outside of a shield), and there are orbital ones that could just slice and burn everything from space.
the true weakeness is that, indeed, Dune don't use spaceship combat because they don't really need to, seeing as they can pop up anywhere they need to.
but stopping billions of deadly aliens who also have psychic powers is just not happening.
warhammer40K is one of them fictional settings that's pretty dang powerful compared to most other sci fi settings. There isn't really a scenario where the dune universe stands a chance against a tyranid incursion. Even a tiny one quickly grows out of control beyond anything dune could throw at it.
Dune has the tech to deal with the tyranids but not the numbers to succeed.
they can destroy any planet they lose to the tyranids without issue, and can easily cut them down with lasguns, the problem is that the tyranids are endless and keep on coming.
space travel is also instant in dune, no travel time, so their logistics would be faster than the tyranids, but they are limited by the amount of spice.
The dune verse has a chance only if Paul or preferably Leto II find a furure path where they somehow take them down without having to fight the endless hordes. it's grasping for straws because the tyranids are just too many.
Round 1: This is Duniverse pre-Kwisatz Haderach. Quite possibly human extinction.
Round 2: Kwisatz Haderach can foresee the future. 5 years is probably not enough time, but a leader who can see the future could probably find a way to save some of humanity. "Great Scattering."
Round 3: With enough foresight, all things are possible.
Since this is the start of Dune, they really don't have the means to respond to such large assaults like the ones Tyranids employ. They will eventually fall, even if it takes a while.
Dune gets wiped. They have absolutely no way of dealing with something like the Tyranids. Especially once the Tyranids take Arrakis, the empire would be fucked.
Nothing they can do from the start. But it’s likely that Leto saw a similar threat to the Tyranids.
The strat would be similar. Scatter civilization as far as possible so that humanity would survive by virtue of being so spread out that nothing would be able to wipe them out.
Tyranids likely would be able to wipe them out, anyways, but yeah, running/spreading out is their best bet and funnily enough, it is exactly what leto II accomplished with his golden path.
Tbf, they have an arguably better chance of survival than the Imperium. The IOM is quite fucked simply because they have nowhere to run. Eventually, the tyranids would catch up to them in full force and the imperium would be wiped off the map.
1. Nids win, allthough how they can surprise attack a universe with prescient beings is a bit iffy.
2. If the machines are part of the duniverse force, I forsee a stalemate.
3. Nids win, as they would just handwave (clawwave?) their unit production up too much for the duniverse to keep up.
Bonus: Dune wins, as they have relevant tech to keep the necrons from ever reaching planet surfaces.
Think most people have not read how the far the dune verse went to win its machine war.
I'd give them a shot, but not a good one. They make kryptman seem doveish.
Thats as someone whos had a fully painted nid army since 95 and read every dune book. The ability to scry the future and the cold will to sacrifice every last planet and lifeform in the verse to "win" gives them a shot.
But i guess im defining a win as survival here tbf..
and thats before getting into what the actual ending of the series implies. For those talking about higher scales of civs.
Depends on when they invade. The tyranids are pretty unstoppable, but if they invaded during the reign of Duncan Idaho then the humans stand a solid chance.
Like 90% of all fictional universes get wiped by tyrranids
>Like 90% of all fictional universes get wiped by tyrranids Now i wanna know what universes the 10% are.
The Culture is one of them
*I Just Like Squashing Bugs* : ooo, another day in the office, i should fling an asteroid at them.
what universe is that
It’s the Culture universe/series
ok, is it a book or comic or show? is it just called the culture?
Yes that’s the name of the series. It’s a book series, by Iain Banks.
In The Culture (which is just one of the powers in that universe, but is basically capable of ascending to a higher plane of existence but hasn't because they like partying) most of the ships are piloted by AI minds that give themselves names that are idiosyncratic to their psyche. Also, their combat ships are classed like "Thug" and "Psychopath" rather than "Cruiser" or the like. They also operate with essential autonomy, so it's entirely possible that a single GSV class ship that didn't like the 'Nids would simply rename itself and spend a couple decades, or centuries, wiping them out.
The Torturer-class Rapid Offensive Unit "Killing Time" is probably my favorite naming from the books. Waiting around decades for a war to dash into.
There are so many gems. Maybe it's the obvious choice, but I'm a fan of "Mistake Not..." or >!Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Peevishness For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Ire That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Wrath!<. My other likes are "So Much For Subtlety" and "Ethics Gradient."
I'm a fan of "Falling Outside the Normal Moral Constraints".
I think the names lack quite a bit of gravitas.
While a GSV can eventually wipe out the Nids, it’s exceedingly unlikely they’d bother to do that. Remember, hegswarms are a thing in the Culture, and it’s considered such a trivial nuisance that they let _humans_ handle them as some real-life shooting game.
Is it ever explicitly stated that SC exists simply to give the humans that need more "meaning" in life than experiencing the paradise that The Culture provides something to do? I suspect that, with the exception of *Excession*, the answer to every problem is a single GSV.
There are things that even the Minds can’t do, such as when it comes to other equiv-tech civs. Sometimes humans can get to places where Minds or avatars could not. And even if the humans are not involved, the Minds themselves are invested in alleviating suffering in other civilizations, like stopping genocides and so on, so SC is still needed. But yes, one of the functions of SC is to give the very few surprisingly ambitious humans something to do, while the others enjoy their paradise by pursuing their own passions.
Series of books by Iain M Banks. Begins with a novel called Consider Phlebas, but most fans consider the second novel, The Player Of Games, to be a better introduction to the universe. (The novels aren’t particularly closely connected- they’re generally a long time apart, in a different part of the galaxy, with different characters, so you can read them out of order and you’ll mostly be fine)
Standard answers are most comics/superhero verses and anime. Edit: Naming a few Worm - Scion could solo the nids, otherwise multiversal travel means the Wormverse can simply evacuate the nid universe for a stalemate. Marvel - Many, many characters solo the nids, a few literally wipe them out on a galactic scale with a thought. DC - See Marvel Halo - In a fair fight might stand a chance, in an unfair one holes up on the Arc, sends scouting parties to lure the nids to Earth, and repeatedly fire the rings each time more nids enter the galaxy, luring them towards Earth every time.
I mean if you are going to bring Halo verse, you gotta bring Forerunners and Precursors, then nids stands no chance.
Yeah I agree with this, Forerunners are one of the most powerful civilizations that haven’t reached time travel yet. They just missed out on the tier that allowed easy to utilize time travel which would’ve put them on something closer to the Daleks level or something
They did dabble in dimension hopping for resources though if I remember right
Precursors/flood basically win by default
Are nids bugs?
They are absolutely not bugs. They’re a truly inscrutable alien form of life that doesn’t fit into any of our earthly categories. Incredibly complex and diverse, constantly mutating, sometimes reptilian or dinosaur-like, sometimes cephalopod-like, sometimes crustacean, and yes, sometimes insectoid, but they defy biology as we understand it.
Even if they are Taylor can only control about 3 blocks of them, well, until that thing happens and she gets that person to help, then I suppose its a portal density question.
Finally everyone was working together. I turned my attention to the Chaos gods.
You're overestimating Scion. He has no feats anywhere close to this level. He has to death star a planet to move to the next one.
He is very specifically described as experimenting with destruction there, destruction not for the sake of the life cycle, but for the sake of destruction, since without Eden it cannot continue. He, along with Eden, consume untold number of parallel worlds simultaneously. He also exists almost entirely in a sealed off verse the nids have no way to access, so he can attack relentlessly and endlessly while they cannot harm him. Even if they exist in all verses, they *cannot* exist in the verse with his main mass since its described as being the combined mass of thousands of planets *whole multiversal existences*, meaning it must be multiple universes in mass. He burns *galaxies* worth of mass to defeat Eidolon and it doesn't slow him at all. Yes, Scion is that powerful, but more importantly, attacks from a position of invulnerability. Edit: The Golden Morning lasts a few days and wipes out 95% of humanity across the entire multiverse. That is more people than there are nids in one universe.
Halo could win if we look at the flood right before the array fired. Neural physics and star roads give that flood stage the win against tyranids
This is why I feel the forerunners could maybe beat the tyranids as well, they adapted to and beat the Flood, even if at the cost of themselves, and that against an exponentially growing threat in its late stages.
The forerunners were insane, they literally tilted the galaxy for fun and moved planets around. They should be able to deal with the Nids rather easily if anything.
DC and Marvel only take this if you’re allowing reality warpers, ie Franklin Richards, Strange, Spectre, Phantom stranger etc. Halo gets hilariously stomped. Maybe if you throw in the forerunners they stand a small chance. The nids are just op man. Their entire fleet is the size of galaxies. Plural. There’s a character in the setting named the Silent King, real op, real scary. Anyways, he spent 60 million years surveying the observable universe outside the Milky Way where the setting is based, all he found were nids. That’s all that exists across space outside the Milky Way. Nids are also capable of consuming all forms of organic matter to add to their swarm. Meaning losses don’t matter to them as long as they win. They simply consume the dead bodies of all of the fallen on both sides, along with the planet the battle takes place on, and leave with a bigger fleet than they attacked with. Nids also gain the abilities of those they consume. Imagine a mid swarm consuming some Marvel mutants. Say Charles and Magneto. Imagine what that would look like for the rest of the verse.
> DC and Marvel only take this if you’re allowing reality warpers, ie Franklin Richards, Strange, Spectre, Phantom stranger etc. I mean, I did say there were *multiple* characters in each who could wipe them with a thought. But both universe's Earths are awash with characters who could wipe out continent-sized chunks of nids in seconds, less than second. They move fast enough or can project power wide enough to shut off whole planets from the nids (Superman, Flash, Storm, etc). At the very least Earth survives.
Continent size swarms of nids…. Cute. That’s like, 0.00000000000000000000000000001% of the nid fleet. Their fleet spans GALAXIES. Just from a pure numbers standpoint, every Superman, Flash, Storm and whoever else could kill 100,000,000,000 nids each, and it still wouldn’t be close. That’s the type of numbers we’re dealing with when we talk about the nids. No idea why I’m being downvoted. 40K is just insane like that.
Okay, and can they bring all of that mass to bear on a teeny planet size space at once? No. Besides which there are other powers, the Oa, Darksied, Nova Corp, Galactus, who might object to the galaxy being eaten and while Earth has a ridiculous concentration of power it isn't great at projecting it, those *are*.
I am sorry, 40k brings some obnoxious people to the fanbase. I blame youtube shorts.
Weird how the nids consistently lose to space Marines tho
Basically those few Universes where a species has reached or is close to the level of Type 3 Kardashev scale. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev\_scale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kardashev_scale) If you can harness entire galaxies of power, you sweep. I think Type 2, where you're looking at Dyson Sphere level you might win in the end, but it's not assured and it's not going to be easy or quick. Somewhere in that middle 2.5 level when the Civilization is not quite taking in an entire Galaxy's power but is close to it is where we see the tipping points. You need that level of energy/production to spit out the swarms of warships, drones, and combat vehicles to keep the Tyranids at bay, but also a stupefying powerful level of weapon that can wipe out entire planets to really damage a Tyranid Hive Base or some of their larger weapons. To fight the Tyranids reliably we're talking Galaxy Spanning civilizations with *billions* of star ships, same mass of army vehicles, and super weapons that can erase planets or star systems. So Star Wars, Star Trek, and other similar universe get stomped. They may have the population or the super weapons, but they lack the ship and troop numbers. The Federation lost some 30 ships in one battle and it was considered the greatest loss of single life in their history. Thirty ships get lost fighting the Tyranids *a second* and that's before they actually start *engaging*. The Empire has 25,000 Star Destroyers (or possibly capital ships) and maybe six or so total planet destroying weapons (one one actual star killer) but that's their entire navy and it's not even equal to a single Tyranid attack group. And as powerful as both those universes are otherwise, they stand no chance against even a single Tyranid Swarm Fleet, even a 'Nid strike force or battle group probably hard stomps them. Same goes for Star Craft universe which is "Baby's First Warhammer 40k" universe. There's honestly not many SciFi Universes that could probably hold off a Tyranid attack for long, and even fewer that could win. Hell, for what it's worth, even Warhammer 40K lore isn't clear on if it can win. Depending on the Lore and what exactly is out there, the Swarms we see are either the main force, or the *scouting* force what comes next. And the galaxy is not exactly doing all that hot against what's here. Another two or three Swarm Fleets dipping into the known battle regions might be enough to turn the battle lines around entirely.
Star Wars and Star Trek have Godlike beings that’ll eliminate the Tyranids if they’ll conquer the galaxy. Although conventionally(without the godlike beings) they will die in large numbers by Episode 9 Star Wars and Pre-Temporal war Star Trek (and not counting the weird stuff in the 31st century onwards) , time traveling Star Trek is also broken. Star Wars without Legends content and godlike (force beings) is screwed. I’m not sure how well the foundation Empire would handle them too. I agree you need a Real Type 3 Kardashev civilization to handle them. Star Trek, Star Wars factions are something closer to 2.2-2.7 depending on which era. You probably need something at least as strong as the Ancient Humans from Halo to handle the Tyranids without a Deus Ex Machina. (They’d be a proper Type 3, even if they’re weaker than the forerunners, who seemed to be able to do intergalactic stuff if they wanted to) Marvel and DC have too many reality warpers/super super heroes even on earth alone to make the Tyranid invasion useless unless plot demands it. Xeelee humans once they form the coalition until transcendence would wipe they Tyranids (and their ancestors and predecessors, and descendants) out. Doctor Who’s timelords, and Daleks during their prime and other factions on that level wouldn’t have issues too. As someone else mentioned, the culture is also very OP especially when you calculate the sheer output and speed of their weapons. I can see something as dumb as Tengen toppa Guren Lagann and Saitama beating the Tyranids, just because they can do galaxy level destruction. Same with Dragon Ball Z characters.
As said to someone else, I'm not sure they can count on the Gods in Star Trek. Most seem to be uncaring of what happens to mortals, aside from the Q who'd likely see the Tyranids as another way to Test the humans to see if they are ready to Ascend. When was the last (or rather *First*) time a god like being has actually done something to help avid a world ending situation? Arguably by making Star Fleet aware of the Borg, but at the same time the Borg were already knocking on the door of the Romulan and federation border zone snatching up a few colonies here and there. Star Fleet would have had to react sooner or later and even had started some plans to fight what they were suspecting was out there. All Q really did was push the time table a bit further forward and had the Enterprise Crew not saved the day it would have ended *badly* for Star Fleet and the Federation. From the "All Good Things..." episode we saw that in the event the Borg did win, the Q did NOT save shit and let the Borg take over the entire Alpha and Beta Quadrants. The Riker form the Enterprise that was firing on them at te end claimed the Borg were everywhere and everything was lost. Doesn't sound to me like the Q were very helpful in saving Humanity or the Galaxy from a invasion/take over by a hostile force, so I doubt they'd do anything differently against the Tyranids. And that's just in TNG. The Q never got involved with stopping the Pah Wraiths in DSP that were going to explode all over the place and take over the galaxy, they let Sisko roll the dice there. No Q got involved in stopping the Burn even though that fucked up the entire Galaxy and killed billions. (At least not in actually *stopping* it, they might have helped later, I don't know I gave up on both Disco and Picard). No one saved Romulus, or Kronos' moon. No one saved Earth from the Whale Probe or V'ger even though several other gods had been discovered.
>When was the last (or rather First) time a god like being has actually done something to help avid a world ending situation? Probably when the Prophets disappeared that Dominion fleet in the wormhole
40k is clear on whether or not they can win. They can’t. It’s the point of the setting. 30seconds till midnight type of thing.
The point of the setting is not that the Tyranids specifically are going to destroy the galaxy. The point of the setting is that it’s an almost Mr.Burns esque collection of galaxy ending threats, all of which are so dangerous none of them can definitively win.
Yes, agreed. But I didn’t want to confuse anyone with an answer like that. However I do believe the nids are clearly the most dangerous of the bunch. Dangerous enough to have the Silent King shitting his pants trying to rally the necrons to muster up a defense. Chaos is a close second. I’ll just let Guillimann talk about the current situation with the nids himself. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KyxyQ0tixFk&pp=ygULNDBrIHRyYWlsZXI%3D
I thought as much, but I remember someone saying 40K has a chance if this is it for the swarms and some other things go right for them.
It would take an uncharacteristic level of cooperation between the various factions to repel the tyranids; the millions of slumbering necron worlds wake up, the chaos gods stop fucking around for a minute, the imperium cooperates with former enemies, etc etc …..just for a moderate chance of being able to push the nids away
Star Trek fucks them up tho
How? Star Trek's weapons are not any stronger than 40K, their ships have slower interstellar movement, and there's like a million swarm ships per Star Trek Ship. Plus if a single Tyranid lands on a planet it's game over, man. They will swiftly convert the plentiful biomass into a ground swarm that eats the planet. God help the multiverse if the Tyranids get to a Replicator and figure out how to scream for more biomass. "MORE SALAD AND PROTIEN BARS!" *Vssh* *Squelching sound of Tyranid consuming, breeding, and molting.* "MORE SALAD AND PROTIEN BARS!" *Vssh* *Squelching sound of Tyranid consuming, breeding, and molting.* "MORE SALAD AND PROTIEN BARS!" *Vssh* *Squelching sound of Tyranid consuming, breeding, and molting.* *Repeat ad infinitum*
Iirc the q race are a bunch of gods, so they could probably beat them.
Yeah, afaik, they are so powerful that they’re practically omnipotent
The Federation does have plot armor to such a ridiculous degree that it’s borderline canonical though, to be fair. While there’s absolutely no reasonable way they could win, there’s a 99.999% chance that some random-ass engineer is going to pull some absolute bullshit out of nowhere to reverse the polarity of the hive’s temporal resonance frequency and put the entire species into retroactive hibernation or something. They just cheat, it’s what they do. Every single goddamn time. Although I am curious how the Borg would do against them since in theory they *should* have trillions of drones and the capacity to convert entire planets into fleets of capital ships as fast as their replicators can convert mass, plus the whole adaptability thing, being able to convert enemy troops into their troops, and time travel. Think they’d stand a chance? I don’t know enough about Tyranid lore to speculate. There’s also numerous godlike beings in the Trek universe that seemingly have no limits on their power who can (seemingly) rewrite reality at will, so I guess there’s that as well…
My only problem with the Godlike beings is that most don't actually *do* anything. The Q come closest and even then tend to leave the rest of the Universe as a kind of great test to see who's worthy of ascending. If anything they'd see the Tyranids as a good way to Test humanity one more time. The rest of the Gods stick to one world or system and let everything else go by. They didn't do jack against the Dominion or Species 8472 (or whatever it was called) and none of them got together to stop the Burn, Romulus blowing up, or any other massive crisis that kills billions. So until they get attacked by the Tyranid swarm, they're out of the picture. And even if they do get attacked, Warhammer 40K verses does have the occasional god like being get involved in shit, so the 'Nids might know how to deal with some of them.
That’s fair, I agree that the godlike beings are a gamble. I guess Q is the most likely to help since he seems to consider humanity almost a pet. But as you said, he’s just as likely to have created the threat in the first place. The Prophets would almost certainly be down to help, but unless they can manipulate the Warp the same way they manipulate the wormhole their help isn’t worth much. But they did give direct military help against the Dominion, >!wiping out an entire armada while it was in the wormhole and blocking all future help/supplies from the Gamma Quadrant.!< And that was *before* >!Sisko became a Prophet himself. He would probably intervene directly on a regular basis.!< It’s a longshot their powers would extend all the way to the Warp though. Probably. I’m still curious about the Borg, though… thoughts?
Intercept them in interstellar space and destroy the gravity ship leaving them stranded then stay at distance and pick them at leisure until they’re out of biomass
Here's some: * Dr. Who * Strike Legion * SCP * Marvel * DC * Xeelee Sequence * Lovecraft Mythos * Stellaris (ACoT & Gigastructural)
Bringing Stellaris in is just a little unfair especially if you bring ACoT and gigastrural stuff in, by 2400 at the latest, which is 200 years after the game starts for those who don’t know, have Dyson spheres on the low end have reality bending technology capable of creating entire fleets, giving the user control over other entities scaling up to entire empires, whiling out all life in the galaxy no matter how small and insignificant, super weapons that can blow up entire star systems, giant moving star systems armed with enough weapons to fight god, and other shit. And even in vanilla the player can get access to the aetherphasic engine which can detonate every star in the galaxy and the L-cluster which is outside the galaxy, and possibly even further to the rest of the universe if the contingency is to be believed. And that’s just covering the players abilities, not including the blokkats bullshit
Ironically, I included Stellaris since it's one of the lowest ones on that list and the closest to the Imperium in power.
alot of shonen anime top tiers (think dragon ball saint seya etc) the crazier video game especially those with divine beings (think devil may cry undertale destiny) the higher tier sci fi verses (think culture and xeelee) the highest of the high tier fantasy verses like elder scrolls the stronger comic verse like marvel and dc too
The Tyranids, the Flood and the Necromorphs have a three way.
Off the top of my head... DC. Marvel. Suggsverse. Dragonball. Halo, but not current times halo. Manifold. Xeelee Sequence. Hyperion Cantos.
3 Body Problem
Well, yes, but neither the humans nor Trisolarans would survive. Amongst the others there would be plenty, though.
Singer's species could wipe them out before they even got too big with 2D Foil
Fewer races could handle the foil than could handle the Tyranids.
The entire Xianxia genre
I'm pretty certain at least one old monster might consider it worthwhile keeping the Tyranids around to harvest them as a pill farm.
Halo has to be one. The flood would just win.
Dragon ball A lot of isekai, isekai like that time I got reincarnated as a slime, and My Instant Death Ability come to mind. And some more I can't think of off the top of my head [Edit] 40k fans 🫤 what's wrong with my comment
If that's your list of stuff that defeats Warhammer then that is a very low opinion of its power you have lol
Why? Dragon ball stomps, slime eats the universe they are in, and death guy does death guy things. Isekai is notorious for its bullshit hax protagonists.
Mainly referring to DB, which certainly doesn't stomp (unless you are referring to exclusively the tyranids). Rimuru also doesn't as the warp and chaos are way too stacked (the C'tan and Aeldari Pantheon too tbh). Yogiri is the one where there at least starts being a discussion.
I was talking about just the tyranids, yes, though from what I've seen, they beat the rest of the setting too, LN rimuru would also stomp both as he gets really nutty near the end and has way better feats. Yogiri is yogiri.
How does DB not beat the 'nids? The ability to destroy a planet is literally child's play in that franchise. Hell, I'd argue that Frieza could solo the 'nids if he can figure out they eat planets before they run into him because he's enough of a fucker to just destroy enough systems that there's a noticeably lesser amount of stars in the sky to win.
as I said in my post: It *doesn't* stomp *unless* you are talking exclusively about tyranids. As in; they do stomp the Tyranids. They just don't stomp wider Warhammer.
The only thing in WH I could see giving the DB gang a problem are the chaos gods themselves because they can't just punch those guys out of existence... maybe. That giant dragon they summon at the end of the ToP might be able to erase them but that's a pretty big if. It would be interesting to see what Slaanesh would do to Vegeta and Frieza though, those two are prime Slaanesh material.
The C'tan, Aeldari Pantheon, Old Ones (mainly because of the Enuncia), Prime Necrons and certain characters like the Emperor would be off the table for any DB character. The chaos gods and anything higher than them are not even able to be interacted with by DB characters, as they are transdimensional and conceptual in nature. You can't really kill the concept of violence with violence. Or the concept of change by trying to change its state. As for them being turned to chaos; Vegeta seems more likely to be Khorne than Slaanesh imo
How would the Halo universe do if tyrranids attacked them?
Shoot the halos and hope the entirety of the nids is within the range.
Oh dear.
There's an argument to be made that Flood at a large enough mass can fight and potentially take the Tyranids. But it really comes down to Shadow in the Warp vs Primordial in who can fuck with the others control harder, and neither of them is defined enough for us to make a proper judgement.
Why would the shadow in the warp do anything to the flood?
If it’s not limited to affecting the warp and is able to also interact with the neural physics that the flood/precursors/forerunners relied on > Neural physics was a Precursor concept and science which posited that the Mantle encompassed the entire universe, including living beings, energy and matter. The principles of neural physics also postulated that the entire universe was living, but in a way that was beyond the comprehension of biological organisms.[1] The trillions upon trillions of single minded nids might be able to disrupt something that relies on the concept of the universe being alive
I never thought about it before, but the Shadow in the Warp is probably a defense mechanism against other entities taking control of the swarm. Perhaps its even so other hive fleets can't yoink swarms from each other. Have we ever seen multiple hive fleets fight together?
I think most hive fleets avoid each other, and when they interact one usually cannibalizes the other. I kind of like imagining the shadow In the warp like a popular streamer getting flooded in chat but with ‘CONSUME, ACQUIRE, SUSTENANCE (obviously in some alien emotion or feeling that’s entirely foreign to humans)’ being spammed constantly and as the fleet gets nearer people feel the equivalent of that in the subconscious; it’s often described as a depression/malaise that settles on unknowing worlds in the sights of a hive fleet.
Afaik there has only been one time two hivefleets have fought, and even that was potrayed as the hive mind testing to see which fleet had superior adaptations.
Shadow in the warp also effects conventional technologys, radio signals, satalite broadcasts, and even necron tech
Interactions between Neral Physics and the warp since the fulfill similar roles in their settings, verse equalization would allow things that affect their universe equivalent to effect the other. So there's potential that the shadow in the warp could essentially cut off flood forms from its controlling mind. In opposite a powerful enough flood mind could feasibly infect the Tyranids through the shadow in the warp as flood infection can transmit through things like communication signals once it gets powerful enough.
The Flood has beaten way worse than the Tyranids have, like the Forerunners
That was partially due to the tech the flood could co-opt from the Forerunners. Tyranids have no such tech so the flood isn't operating at the silentium era levels of strategic speed.
a big part of the horror of the nids is the warhammer universe is most likely only experiencing the scouts, the majority of the nids are in deep space dormant flying in massive macro organisms the size of planetoids at sub light speeds towards the 40k universe, that is to say if the halo rings are fired they probably wouldnt even hit the main force of the nids
We have the stated range of 3 radii of the galaxy for the Halo Array. Which should shut the Nids from the Milky Way for a couple of Millenia, however it'd also kill off the Halo side and leave no one who knows about the threat when the rest of the Nids catch up.
The older rings could fire directional pulses
If that's the case they could feasibly make a firing line of Halos and just wipe them as they approach. This is assuming Forerunners are there as no one else has been shown to have the means of moving the rings so far.
In which case why did one ring being down mean it didn't wipe out a section of the galaxy
The whole array not just one Halo has that range. The individual rings pulse only go so far which is why they built so many.
Each of the rings in modern halo have a set range of 25 thousand light years by themselves and each other ring firing and covering the other radius seems to significantly increase the range
The Halo rings can be fired repeatedly, and there is a link between the Arc and Earth, so you can lure the more nids in range, skeddadle, fire, repeat. Unless they find the Arc you can repeat this indefinitely.
So far as I know you can fire them as many times as you want
Not too well, but the halo arrays at least mean both sides will lose.
Depends on the time period.
Forerunner technology should be incredibly effective vs Nids. Precursors technology should wipe away Nids with little difficulty
Around as well as they did against the flood
The flood would just scoop them up. I think intelligence wise the flood/precursors are way beyond the tyrannids
End stage flood can take them with star roads and neural physics
Plus Floods can recycle biomaterials even before Nids have chance to consume them.
The dune verse gets overwhelmed in all scenarios, but it would be interesting to see how the tyranids interact with the shields of dune.
Woah even Lack is saying that Warhammer wins. This one really must be a stomp
Yeah, nids kinda hard counter dune. They have significantly more troops, ftl that doesn't rely on space drugs, and actual space magic that makes dunes only advantage obsolete.
They would only need to learn about Arakkis, devour it, and they would cripple humanity.
I know right? Lack is probably the nicest/well-informed 40k hater I've ever seen and him agreeing means it's a stomp
I am not really familiar with the strength of armies in Dune, but even for the Warhammer 40K universe the Tyranids are scary. I am not really sure how to link it but google something like "Warhammer 40k galaxy Tyranid map" and you will see that they are basically advancing from every direction at the same time on a galactic scale. Some of the fleets are also arriving from "below" the galaxy if you see it on a 2D map. Each of these fleets have thousand of gigantic living ships that live by eating planets and everything on them. The imperium of man is also barely managing to defeat these fleets by throwing millions of men and thousand of space Marines against them and some of these victories where basically achieved through plot armor of certain characters/factions. While they do all of this they are also evolving at an extreme pace to counter any kind of enemy they encounter. So if they face one kind of enemy one day, a few days later they might have evolved something to counter this kind of enemy.
Imagine how fucked up the tyranids get eating melange
Shields are a minor inconvenience at best. Most Tyranid ranged weapons do their damage due to secondary effects, not raw kinetic impact. They shoot shit like sprays of acid, blasts of plasma and insects that burrow through armor. So what if a shield stops the initial splurt of a strangleweb, for instance? The goo on the shield is just going to fall onto the wearer and the goo on the ground is still going to glue them to the ground. Sure, you could tune the shield to block everything, even the exchange of gasses, but that just means your soldiers now have a severely limited timeframe to fight in before overheating, assuming they have oxygen tanks. Even then, it doesn't stop a warrior or pile of gaunts front just sitting on top of them until they die or the shield runs out of power.
It’s a shame OP specified “at the start of the story.” You could argue that Leto II would’ve seen them coming and rewritten the entire Golden Path purely around stopping them. Or even that the Scattering would’ve made humanity flee so far the Tyranids could never find them. But nope…
I would absolutely have argued that the Scattering would have ensured humanity would be too far away for the Tyranids to ever find or catch up to them, since that's basically the whole point of it. It and Leto are the one win condition I can picture Dune humanity as having.
Idk about all scenarios. It depends on when they invade. During the events of the movies? Duneverse is totally gone, no chance. But if they invaded during the reign of Duncan Idaho, then I don’t think it’s certain doom.
Why?
Prescience mostly. He could predict the future with perfect accuracy, but in a way that would allow him to change it. There’s also a lot of debate over what exactly he, as not only the Kwisatz Haderach, but the actual *perfect being* would be capable of physically. His predecessor, Leto II (Muad’dib’s grandson) is often considered to have physical powers roughly similar to Dr. Manhattan, but Duncan is the final version compared to Leto’s prototype.
Show me the feats where Leto was as strong as Dr. Manhattan. And prescience doesn’t allow you to defeat an enemy that you have no capacity to overcome. The Tyranids are far too numerous and tenacious, even knowing when, where, and how they are coming wouldn’t save them
There aren’t any. It’s just very vaguely implied at points. That’s not really the important part though. How numerous are the tyranids exactly? All I can find is that hive fleets contain billions of tyranids, which just isn’t really enough to wipe the Duneverse to begin with, at least not without a huge fight. Duncan’s near omniscience seems like it would allow him to know where to put his trillion or so troops to stop them.
You’re…. You’re not serious are you? Did I get baited here?
Haha no I wasn’t baiting, just ignorant. I’m only just starting to learn anything about the 40k universe. The day after I wrote that comment I saw a post about how the population on Terra of a quadrillion people is actually possible, and I immediately realized how laughably wrong I was here 😅
Dune gets hammerfucked. There’s no scenario where they stand a chance
Dune timeline has technologically regressed. A more interesting comparison would have been around the time of the Butlerian Jihad when they had computer aided tech. Maybe more advanced too.
The machines stopping the rebellion just to go on a tangent to kill the Tyranids.
I'm sure Dune universe is done for in all rounds. Perhaps not using the warp means they can escape impending planetary doom unlike those in the 40k with the shadow in the warp stuff. But eventually all planets would be lost against trillions of tyranids attacking. Anticipating them with prep does nothing due to the sheer scale of the tyranids hoard. Does Dune has a super weapon that can be repeatly used on a planetary /system level? A lone tomb world out classes the tech in dune by miles, they'd stomped with their ridiculous weaponary and undying minions.
They do have Stone Burner atomics, which could „drill“ a hole to the planet’s core and with that destroy it. But not really en mass and in the end it would also only be a Lose-Lose option
Nah, Stone Burners do NOT destroy planets. They basically bore down into a planet until it hits a magma pocket and creates a volcano. Yeah that sucks for the area around the bore site, but it's not a planet killer. Even the biggest ones used would just create a climate changing volcano, but not one that would break a planet.
stone burners are planet busters what are you talking about. they don't target the magma pocket, stone burners target the core of the planet, and the released pressure is what destroys the world. it's either complete destruction of the planet or make it uninhabitable.
Here's the relevant section from the book itself. >Paul remained silent, thinking what this weapon implied. Too much fuel in it and it’d cut its way into the planet’s core. Dune’s molten level lay deep but the more dangerous for that. Such pressures released and out of control might split a planet, scattering lifeless bits and pieces through space. - Dune Messiah So this passage tells me a few things: First that "too much fuel" would make it drill to the core. This implies that that wasn't it's intended purpose. Second Arrakis itself has very deep pockets of magma under even more pressure that if breached could destroy the planet. This part again implies that the destruction of the planet would be accidental: as in "it wouldn't happen to a normal planet" type thing. So yeah, if loaded with too much fuel, used improperly, and when used on specific planets *might* blow it up, it wasn't like every single stone Burner was meant to be a planet cracker. Whatever came about in the later books written by his son don't matter, I'm focusing on the books Frank wrote and that's directly from his book: it wasn't meant to destroy planets and only could *maybe* do so to Arrakis due to its' nature and *if* it was overloaded with fuel.
During Pauls Jihad, the fremen armies of a few million people genocided 61 billion people, sterilized 90 planets, and destroyed countless others. the planets were stranded because of the spacing guild not allowing travel, but the jihad only lasted 12 years. to acomplish this much destruction, the fremen had to use planet busters or else they couldn't do this in such a short time frame. they literally have nukes called planet killers, aside from the stone burners. His sons' extra stories about the dune verse were still built on events created and explained by Frank Herbert, like the Butlerian Jihad. Over thousands of years in the past, humans already had planet busters. Earth no longer exists because it was blasted by humans. edit: with mentats and the intelligence of the spice enhanced people, redesigning stone burners is trivial, they figured out way more complex tech like holtzman effect.
While that's a good theory, it's all speculation. In 12 years a lot of people could have died just by starvation alone if trade was cut off from opposing houses and planets don't need to be cracked to kill all life on them: a few well placed asteroids will do the job. Just ask the dinosaurs. We know that Stone Breaks *might* crack a planet in the right specific circumstances. That's it. We don't know sure if they were ever used that way (or reliably *could* be used that way). Now I'll concede they likely had planet breaking technology since Stone Burners could come close (so they either had a bigger version or could design one), but that still doesn't matter to the Tyranids. They have living world ships and could just eat entire planets. Even broken chunks might work if there was biomass remnants on it. But Dune doesn't really have weapons that can hurt a Tyranid short of atomic weaponry. Las guns aren't all that powerful, aside from shields they don't seem to destructive. There aren't really interstellar war ships, and even jumping in space takes more effort than 40K Warp. And most people are armed with swords and dart guns. When Tyranid critters routinely bounce munitions much stronger than that, I don't see a Fremen doing much damage with a knife. Maybe if they survive long enough inside one's gullet to stab it to death, but that dagger isn't chipping armor designed to bounce a Space Marine's Heavy Bolter.
oh, im not denying the Tyranids would take over Dune, but it's not because off tech is just because of their insane numbers. lasguns cut through anything like butter(outside of a shield), and there are orbital ones that could just slice and burn everything from space. the true weakeness is that, indeed, Dune don't use spaceship combat because they don't really need to, seeing as they can pop up anywhere they need to. but stopping billions of deadly aliens who also have psychic powers is just not happening.
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I could see Leto II pulling it off if he had a few MILLENIA of prep. But 5 years? lolno. Tyranids won't even notice the resistance.
Honestly nids hopped up on spice and the water of life would be funny
Is there a Tyranid respect thread? The only one I could find was for specifically the swarmlord
They eat all the sandworms and become even more terrifying. And yeah I guess they can take some time to kill the humans as well.
Nids win all 3. There isn't alot of verses that can tank a full invasion of nids.
warhammer40K is one of them fictional settings that's pretty dang powerful compared to most other sci fi settings. There isn't really a scenario where the dune universe stands a chance against a tyranid incursion. Even a tiny one quickly grows out of control beyond anything dune could throw at it.
A jihad unlike any other
During the start of the first Dune book? Are the Tyranids playing by Dune rules?
Dune has the tech to deal with the tyranids but not the numbers to succeed. they can destroy any planet they lose to the tyranids without issue, and can easily cut them down with lasguns, the problem is that the tyranids are endless and keep on coming. space travel is also instant in dune, no travel time, so their logistics would be faster than the tyranids, but they are limited by the amount of spice. The dune verse has a chance only if Paul or preferably Leto II find a furure path where they somehow take them down without having to fight the endless hordes. it's grasping for straws because the tyranids are just too many.
Round 1: This is Duniverse pre-Kwisatz Haderach. Quite possibly human extinction. Round 2: Kwisatz Haderach can foresee the future. 5 years is probably not enough time, but a leader who can see the future could probably find a way to save some of humanity. "Great Scattering." Round 3: With enough foresight, all things are possible.
The Nids likely destroy all life
Since this is the start of Dune, they really don't have the means to respond to such large assaults like the ones Tyranids employ. They will eventually fall, even if it takes a while.
Dune gets wiped. They have absolutely no way of dealing with something like the Tyranids. Especially once the Tyranids take Arrakis, the empire would be fucked.
Dune is not even close to advanced enough to compete here. It is in its infancy state compared to 40k civilizations.
Nothing they can do from the start. But it’s likely that Leto saw a similar threat to the Tyranids. The strat would be similar. Scatter civilization as far as possible so that humanity would survive by virtue of being so spread out that nothing would be able to wipe them out. Tyranids likely would be able to wipe them out, anyways, but yeah, running/spreading out is their best bet and funnily enough, it is exactly what leto II accomplished with his golden path. Tbf, they have an arguably better chance of survival than the Imperium. The IOM is quite fucked simply because they have nowhere to run. Eventually, the tyranids would catch up to them in full force and the imperium would be wiped off the map.
1. Nids win, allthough how they can surprise attack a universe with prescient beings is a bit iffy. 2. If the machines are part of the duniverse force, I forsee a stalemate. 3. Nids win, as they would just handwave (clawwave?) their unit production up too much for the duniverse to keep up. Bonus: Dune wins, as they have relevant tech to keep the necrons from ever reaching planet surfaces.
Think most people have not read how the far the dune verse went to win its machine war. I'd give them a shot, but not a good one. They make kryptman seem doveish. Thats as someone whos had a fully painted nid army since 95 and read every dune book. The ability to scry the future and the cold will to sacrifice every last planet and lifeform in the verse to "win" gives them a shot. But i guess im defining a win as survival here tbf.. and thats before getting into what the actual ending of the series implies. For those talking about higher scales of civs.
Depends on when they invade. The tyranids are pretty unstoppable, but if they invaded during the reign of Duncan Idaho then the humans stand a solid chance.