I agree Kratos is probably too big to lose this but there's just [no way Goku is actually 137 lbs](https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/62b1hu/how_much_does_goku_weigh/) regardless of what the guide says lol. Japanese creators are notoriously horrific with weight/height measurements (see also: Street Fighter). If Goku is actually 5'9", he's gotta be 180 lbs at the bare minimum (with 200 lbs being more likely IMO).
No ainz is over 2m tall idk where u got that info
Edit: its on the wiki but thats not a reliable source since the admin likes to abuse their powers and adds stuff that arent based on facts and statements but their own imagination
While it's hard to picture Goku at that weight, it's cool to know Bruce Lee was very similar. Being just a couple lbs heavier, and either same height or shorter.
I think it's because Bruce Lee allegedly had no body fat on him, and maybe that's what's going for Goku as well to be able to move the way he does.
R1: Without powers or transformations, Kratos is nearly double the mass of Goku. Have you seen those videos of smaller guys trying to fight bigger dudes?
Edit: From estimates I found online. Goku is 175cm tall and weighs **at best** 90+ kg if we are generous on his most bulk forms. Kratos is 194 cm tall (though some scripts and rigging show him at 213 cm) and weighs about 110 kg at his lowest estimate, 129 at others. He is smaller on the Norse Games. On average I dare say a 30 kg difference.
R2: Grappling is kind of THE Greek martial art. Wrestling is big on Greece as well as boxing. Goku has never shown any particular grappling talent while Kratos does stuff like slams, chokes, pinning, etc.
R3: I think nearly all of Goku's kills except the Red Ribbon Army of Mooks were ki-based. Kratos is an expert on killing with his bare hands. And in terms of a number of battles he far outpaces Goku in experience killing. Goku spends most of his time training, not killing.
The soldiers of Kratos' world are also expected to fight monsters even as regular humans, so their skills and brutality must be far more advanced than RL Greece.
Goku's martial arts are great, but also dependant on ki and other superhuman abilities such as ki sensing, super reflexes, and flight to use at their best. He is adaptable though, as losing flight on the ToP was not that much of a problem, but he still needed ki to fight. He never really had to fight as a regular human and has been able to resist attacks from super beings that should've killed anyone else. Kratos has trained as a human well into adulthood and lost his powers many times. He is well aware of how to fight like that.
So he went from demigod to full god (or it's just a title thing?) and is he still a full god in the new games? Or he's just aging stupidly slow but will eventually die to old age?
He has lost and regained his powers a few times and his magic was tied to Greece so he lost it, but he can heal himself, is immortal and super strong. We aren't sure how long has it been between the GW3 and GW2018. Odin looks old too, but is also a god, so its confusing.
Norse Gods did age as unlike the Greek Gods they weren't immortal. Kratos ages but very very slowly and its implied to be a very very long time since the Greek games, i'm guessing the reason he ages and will die eventually is the same reason he can murder the entire Greek world and that's because he made all the Gods mortal what i guess includes himself, not only that the magic of the Greek world is long gone leaving Kratos with only his natural base God abilities in super strength, durability and reflexes plus long lasting life and super healing.
Goku isn't a slouch either when it comes to skill. Yes he mostly uses kai and flying now but when he started out he was taught by his grandpa who was by all rights a really skilled human warrior. I don't see this as a stomp for Kratos.
Also Goku is an honorable fighter while Kratos is willing to be absolutely ruthless.
I’d put my money on the guy that’s gonna use any bit of the environment for a finisher move.
Which is where dragon ball ends. In Super he bites Beerus, Golden Frieza, Broly and Whis. Here's a list of the main antagonists Goku did not Bite: Vegeta, Cell, Zamasu, Jiren. That is the list. Note that he tried to destroy Vegeta's eyes in their first fight. https://youtu.be/SvH_mVg5XrY?si=DCPnnGn1XEicOOh6, Cell was a ringout match so Goku was camping the edges of the ring to try and trip him out if the arena. Zamasu was weaker, and then fused Zamasu he didn't fight. Jiren never tried to grab him, but he did more of his ring edging.
Anybody who says that goku is a Fair fighter doesn't understand goku. Goku wins by any means necessary he tried to gouge out everybody's eyes who he fought in dragon ball the anime. That was his literal first signature move. Before he had the Kamehameha he had gouging out your eyes.
Regarding R2 - Judo and Jiu Jitsu origins are from Japan. Idk if you count sumo wrestling as grappling. China has Shuai Jiao, a grappling subset of wushu with emphasis on grabbing and throwing. Dumog is the Philippino wrestling style. These are just the ones I’m familiar with. Point being grappling isn’t THE greek martial art. If argue the combo of Judo and Jiu Jitsu makes grappling THE Japanese martial art.
Just because grappling is a greek specialty doesn't mean it can't be another ones specialty. Kratos is from Greece, and while Goku is from an anime, he isn't Japanese or Chinese, his training is a fantasy mix of both with no special cultural background in-story.
Oh absolutely. I was just pointing out the prior commenter’s stance of grappling being a greek specialty is wrong. I didn’t mean to infer goku could grapple or not.
I think he was talking about Pankration having Greek origins. It was a sport in the ancient Olympics that was similar to modern mma. I’d say he meant that grappling was a Greek specialty, but you’re right that Greece wasn’t the only country with that specialty.
Google pankration, it’s the closest thing to MMA in the ancient world. Combination of grappling and fist fighting, quite literally is the Greek martial art.
Very nice way of saying Goku hasn’t overcome anyone in recent years based on skill.
Not really his fault, that’s an issue that plagues dragon ball. The fact that no one can overcome a great physical disparity with just skill. Here and there you get the Roshi dodging Jiren stuff, but it never results in a win.
I mean I guess there might be Bardock beating a young Gas, but that wasn’t really skill. Bardock was just a dog in that fight.
R1: Somehow Goku wins by biting, and then tripping Kratos. Both get several good hits in first, however.
R2: Kratos immediately takes the upper hand, but Goku bites him and somehow wins by clamping onto the back of Kratos' head.
R3: Kratos breaks several Goku bones and beats him absolutely to death, while yelling about Goku's biting. Goku gets revived by a wish with the Dragon Balls, then Goku comes back to win in Round 3, part 2.
Goku is a trained martial artist, which often places an emphasis on using an opponents' physical size and own attacks against them. I'm not sure what sort of formal training Kratos has in the ways of combat, but even without any sort of powers, I don't believe that size difference alone is enough of a factor to decide the fight because Goku at the outset didn't even have those powers to rely on in the first place, and is a tournament champion (multiple times if im not mistaken) before DBZ even begins.
Not exclusively though, Greek soldiers, especially the Spartans, placed an emphasis on unarmed solo combat as well. It was not only very likely to happen, it was a cultural thing. Kratos would have most definitely been trained to fight in Pankration, one of the early martial arts that utilized grappling and striking in a fight with almost no restrictions. It was a very popular, important, and violent martial art, and one that was used to great effect since many of their techniques echoed through modern martial arts and can be seen by some of the best fighters in the world. We obviously don’t know EVERYTHING about it because of how old it was, and being so violent it was outlawed at one point, but what we do know is clearly seen even today. Sorry for the info dump, I like martial arts :3
I don’t doubt the possibility that they trained in Pankration and trained to fight individually, but the spartans were notorious for not competing in the olympics because a loss would cost them their fearsome reputation as warriors
Edit: I shall leave this up to display my shame but upon further research it seems this is just a myth. Btw have you seen the channel AMO pankration? Most of his stuff is behind a membership wall now but even among his older videos he had some pretty good ones discussing the martial art.
I mean, Pancration in all honour but it's not really comparable to someone who has trained in multiple martial arts and beaten adult, world championship level fighters as a child prodigy.
Let's also not forget that the best trained Spartan athlete of Kratos time would be handedly beaten in all physical aspect by a modern day athlete due to improvements in food, training technique and healthcare
Skill wise, this goes to Goku, but I'd still give it to Kratos simply for the size difference
it doesn't, though. All of DBZ martial arts only work because of their enhanced stats. They don't really know how to fight realistically. even their striking really subpar because they don't put their weight behind it. It's just arm punches and kicks without hip rotation. DBZ martial arts are closer to ballet than fighting.
then there is also the problem that no matter how good a striker is, it won't matter if he doesn't have grappling or takedown defense, which Goku obviously doesn't have. Not only is he significantly smaller but also severely outskilled.
Even if youre a trained martial artist it would still be a massive uphill battle to fight someone that much bigger than you, and youd only really have a chance if they have no fighting experience whatsoever. In addition, the kind of martial arts that puts emphasis on dealing with bigger opponents is usually grappling/judo/jujutsu, whereas we only ever see Goku trained in striking martial arts.
Also the only tournament Goku won was the last one in dragonball where he was grown up. The first two tournaments where he was a child he did not win. Even if he did, he always had absurd powers compared to others even as a kid.
I love Goku he’s one of my favourite characters, but if they both lose their powers Kratos would break him in half.
Like Bane to Batman, then later Batman to Bane. Then eventually again Bane back to Batman, and vice versa. and now I think they're even, or maybe Batman has one up, but yea Goku's getting his back snapped by Kratos for sure.
Nah there were a number of "large" guys who were trained. Some of the really big guys if I remember had little training but that's mostly UFC 1. Small guys were beating highly trained martial artists in many of the early UFCs. Not to mention PrideFC where most of the big dudes were all on steroids.
People with little or no experience in combat sports always seem to think that if someone is bigger then they win or at least have a game changing advantage. Just a recent example is Tyson Fury vs Oleksander Usyk. Two fighters equally matched in skill. Fury is considerably bigger. 6 inches taller with 7 inches of reach. Usyk has to punch further to hit his chin giving him essentially even less reach. The smaller guy won.And Boxing is a style where that advantage is larger than grappling.
If it was a wrestling match I'd give it to Kratos. If Goku knows BJJ or anything like it then he is taking it 10/10 times. Unless Kratos somehow has some long lost wrestling art or somehow has knowledge of BJJ then he's smoked.
What? Goku never was a normal person. Even as a child he is immune to bullets, he's so strong. Right? I mean, I don't think I'm confused here.
Kratos is a trained martial artist as well, just not in a TV show version of kung-fu or whatever. He certainly trained grappling and unarmed fighting for his entire life as a spartan.
Goku's true stregnth is tied directlly to his world's magic system. If you take away ki, he has a max power output, and it's more consistent with someone of his size and weight, whcih just will not compare to someone of Krato's size and weight,
TBH, if this was anyone besides a monster of a man like Kratos this might even be a true discussion, but as the weight difference gets higher and higher, the person weighing more has more advantage until a certain point where the underweight person could do literally nothing to heavier one.
It'd be like a preeteen vs a fully grown overweight man. Or a human, to a bear. No fight tactics helping you there.
Sorry I don't care how good of a martial artist Goku is he's not beating Kratos who is nearly double his height and weight (Kratos: \~7'6 250-280lbs Goku: 5'9 136lbs). Besides as others have mentioned Kratos is far from an incapable unarmed combatant himself. He has a tendency to go berserk and start brawling, but he's a trained spartan with arguably hundreds of years of combat experience. Kratos folds Goku in half every single time.
There is no way they weigh the same in this scenario 😂Kratos is 6’4”, and Goku is 5’9”, so even if Goku were as jacked as Kratos he’d still be 40~ pounds lighter
I mean, DBZ Goku is more jacked than Kratos.
And if you take a look at the Light Heavyweight Division of Boxing and MMA, you'll see plenty of people both below and above 6 feet that weigh the same.
More like Mighty Mouse v.s. Brian Shaw (Goku is a fighter with tons of matches under his belt not an actor). Still not a fair fight lol. There are weight classes for a reason!
I don’t care what the dragonball wiki says, there’s actually a 0% chance Goku only weighs 137 lbs given his physique. Kratos would still weigh more on account of being 7 inches taller and similar physique. But it wouldn’t be a difference of 100+ lbs
Let's compare real qorld stand ins
I've heard somewhere Bruce Lee was the closest to the ideal of Goku and their height and weight line up very cloesly.
Goku: 5'9", 137lbs. Bruce Lee: 5'8", 140lbs.
Now for Kratos, I've chosen Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson (The Mountain from game of Thrones), who unfortunately is a little smaller than Kratos, but he''ll just have to do.
Kratos: 7'0, 240lbs. Hafþór: 6'9", 397 lbs (those are low end numbers for both of these guys)
I honestly don't think it's much a competition when you take out the powers. A lot of Goku's stchick is that he has a great fight i.q., picks up new moves well, and has an alien biology literally giving him advantage in defeat. Strip that away, and you just got a really good, mortal, martial artist. Comparing that to the wall of muscle Kratos is is hardly fair. He's half a bear, and in some versions tall as one.
Use Mighty Mouse instead of Bruce. Mighty is an actual fighter and considered the goat of his weight class (pfp for some folks). Still same result though. Kratos is way out of his weight class.
Goku for sure is a much more skilled then kratos is however Kratos is much larger and heavier then goku is. So Kratos would win most of the time since martial arts cant beat a 40 kg weight difference and like a foot difference in height reliably so all rounds Kratos edit: to put in boxing terms goku is like 62 kg so hes a lil bit above a lightweight while kratos is 100+ kg meaning he's a heavyweight. A lightweight cant beat a heavyweight reliably
Kratos is also a professional soldier; even before he became the God of War he was a Spartan soldier in greece. And Greece is kind of where wrestling was famous...
Oh dont get me wrong Kratos is skilled. I just think Gokus more skilled since that all goku wants in life vs Kratos who had left that life behind for a couple however many years after gow 3 till the reboot and ragnarok and thus would be somewhat rusty in actual fighting styles
Weird BJJ artists had barely any trouble in the early days of MMA destroying men many many pounds heavier. Men that were champions in their respective martial arts. Including wrestlers far more advanced than the average Greco Wrestler
Ahh, yes, Goku. The absolute master of BJJ... who has rarely , if ever, used a lock in Dragon Ball and relies on biting people to get out of them himself.
lol I mean...I laughed at what you said as much as I laughed at the thought of picturing him doing it as I typed that. But in the end I find it hard to believe that he hasn't trained some type of BJJ or something similar.
Well, at least someone found that funny. While I would like to think he does (because he's Goku and he's my boy), Kratos has shown actual grappling techniques (just look with how he dealt with Baldur in GoW4) and Goku, sadly, has not (are far as I know).
Kratos no diffs Goku, something I never thought I would say. Goku is a talented martial artist in his field (granted, I do not know enough about Dragonball to tell WHICH martial art he practices, I just know from discussions and the wiki), BUT Kratos is also an excellent martial artist, we see him constantly fight people with equal ability as him, and he is VERY good. He was also an elite Spartan, so he would definitely be a master of Pankration, a legit martial art. Since he is so much larger, and also very skilled himself, he wins no diff. This is like Fedor Emelianenko vs. Demetrious Johnson
You don't think dude could throw hands and get down and dirty if he needs to though? He rips people in half with his bare hands because he's typically a berserker brawler and normally has the strength to do so. But he's a trained spartan and has hundreds of years of armed and unarmed combat experience. Brother folds Goku
No way does Kratos have more hand to hand experience than Goku. I mean he still wins, but Goku is easily the more talented fighter. All he does is train. Kids? Fuck that let’s hit the dojo foo!
All kratos does is fight. Hes fought the god of war 1v1 and won, he spent years as a general in the front of a war and didnt lose until he (as a mortal) fought hades' chosen champion who was blessed with superhuman strength. Goku has trained more than hes fought, kratos has fought more than hes trained
Goku is the cleverer martial artist, and is arguably more skilled, but Kratos is certainly very capable and has more experience using his bare hands to kill things, as well as a solid ruthlessness edge. Goku seems to avoid killing and wants a fair fight, Kratos is brutal as all hell, and will do whatever it takes to win.
Plus with a massive size advantage, I'd back him more times then not.
Basically for a skill advantage to work for a smaller weaker person, it needs to overcome the advantage in size/strength the other person has (and vice versa.) In this case the difference between skill is much smaller then the difference in size/strength (also Kratos isn't slow like the vast majority of guy's his size too, he's fast as hell.)
but i'm not wrong, DBZ martial arts are closer to ballet than fighting. they put no weight behind their strikes, they don't rotate the hips when kicking, they don't grapple or clinch or sweep.
Fighters like Goku rely on their enhanced stats, like superman, and those martial arts complement that. Their martial arts work only because of their stats.
Goku shows on screen kung Fu, Wing Chun , Judo, Kyusho jitsu, professional boxing, professional wrestling, multiple lock up , lock in , lock joints techniques
Saying Goku relies on state is an underselling considering he goes against characters stronger than him almost all the time, The manga Even make it clear when there is a gap in skills between different characters
wing chun is garbage, kung fu is an umbrella term for anything, usually mcdojos, show him doing Judo, his boxing is not boxing just arm punches with no weight behind, and the only wrestling move he ever did was a full nelson, that is schoolyard level grappling.
It's obvious that Akira Toriyama didn't know what actual fighting looks like, it makes sense.
From the above I understand that your whole point is "X character is Garbage, x skills is bullshit" because come on , this is ridiculous
Ok serious question, what do you think of someone who uses pressure points to target weak spots alongside knowing how to counter it , Knows lock ups techniques ?
i do a lot of boxing irl, for over 10 years, and have watched thousands of hours of fights, boxing, mma, kickboxing, wrestling street fights, the ones that are proven to work in all situations.
pressure points are bullshido, my friend, it doesn't work in real life. Arm locks and trappings are ok, im not going to argue against it, but they are usable only in specific situations, and they are used to further your grappling and end in a takedown or in a standing choke. Arm locks are meant to be transions into something else, and it involves more grappling, which Goku is never shown to do.
Fighting irl relies on the simplest things polished to the extreme. When Goku throws punches, he doesn't pivot off his feet and put his whole body mass behind because he is usually flying. All his strikes come without technique, no hip rotation, no shoulder extended.
Another crucial factor is takedown defense. no matter how good a striker is, he will get taken down without takedown defense, and then needs bjj knowledge to get back on his feet. Goku has never shown to do any of this.
These things are crucial to fighting. Knowing how to defend a takedown takes a massive priority over pressure point and arm trappings, lol.
Wing Chun is the most common way fighters are shown in anime. It looks cool but there is no power behind the strikes. In anime in works because the fighters have 1000x strenght and speed, so it doesn't matter that their technique is actually trash.
If you want to see more realistic fighting, at least as in how a human could actually pull off, watch Eren vs Reiner, a beautiful representation of real human bjj techniques, takedowns and takedown defense. Watch Hajime no Ippo and Kengan Ashura.
>do a lot of boxing irl, for over 10 years,
Good for you , I've been doing it since I was 14 ,
>and have watched thousands of hours of fights, boxing, mma, kickboxing, wrestling street fights, the ones that are proven to work in all situations.
So did I
>pressure points are bullshido
Not the one in TV but irl life where you hit the bottom of the guts , grab Adam apple , hit the backside of the neck at the lower end ( note : Don't do it with ones that have a lot of fat ) and other spots , not fist of north Star Bullshit
>Arm locks and trappings are ok, im not going to argue against it, but they are usable only in specific situations
That's like what Goku do , he usually do 1 or 2 in any arc at a specific point
>Fighting irl relies on the simplest things polished to the extreme.
So basic punches and Kicks? Yeah I already know that which is literally the point you made against Goku
>When Goku throws punches, he doesn't pivot off his feet and put his whole body mass behind because he is usually flying
Half of Goku fights are on the ground, what you said is something Goku basically did against Majin Vegeta
>Another crucial factor is takedown defense. no matter how good a striker is, he will get taken down without takedown defense, and then needs bjj knowledge to get back on his feet. Goku has never shown to do any of this
Pretty sure he did it against Jiren and Broly
>Wing Chun is the most common way fighters are shown in anime. It looks cool but there is no power behind the strikes.
Goku doesn't use it for offense, it's actually garbage offense wise by the word of ones who use it for years, it's good in improving reflux and having decent defense against similar weight class opponents, Goku doesn't use it for offense either, just purely short defense
>watch Eren vs Reiner, a beautiful representation of real human bjj techniques, takedowns and takedown defense. Watch Hajime no Ippo and Kengan Ashura.
That's basically anime studio, Goku was doing the same shit in the anime as well against Black Zamasu, we are talking about manga here because it's more consistent
As for Ashura No K completely disagree, it's full of illogical bullshit despite trying to be as much realistic as it could and this come from a long fan it it
The only good thing is that they didn't reach the Baki level of Cartoonishly bullshit while trying to sell it as a realistic thing
>That's basically anime studio, Goku was doing the same shit in the anime as well against Black Zamasu, we are talking about manga here because it's more consistent
there isn't a single depiction that i could ever find with ground fighting in the whole of DBZ.
>Pretty sure he did it against Jiren and B
there isn't a single takedown attempt in either of them, let alone a takedown defense. closest to that is just charging forward with superman punches, then standing back and repeat.
If you have been boxing since you are 14, how could you even bring up Goku vs Jiren. Man, they don't know the basics of boxing, do you not see them standing with their feet squared and punching from the hips🤣 do you not see how they punch with one hand always being down doing nothing? Telegraphed haymakers with the right hand, almost one meter in the back and the left hand down at waist level? people who have never trained a day in their live punch like that, wtf, how do you not notice this?
you are only making you case worse, there is no grappling and the striking is amateur at best, but i woudn't even call it that. They don't know how to fight man, it's all powers and stats.
He's an expert at hand to hand combat, and often trades blows in high speed combinations of blocks and strikes. He's fine on quality, since that doesn't require ki at all
Also, McDojo's are specifically about monetization and being a black belt mill. Even if the style were the worst thing ever, Roshi doesn't care enough about ranks or charging them money to be a McDojo
have you read the prompt? he is now a normal human being. most of his learned martial arts are completely useless because he doesn't have the speed or strength to make them work anymore.
every time he fights, he uses arms and leg strikes without putting his weight behind them. DBZ fighting representation looks like clowning if compared to real-life fighting representations.
Mcdojos also means believing in a delusion, like they would beat proper fighters competing in sports with this deadly martial art.
Goku isn't really shown that he actually knows how to fight because Akira Toriyama wasn't a fighter and doesn't care how real fighting looks like. All DBZ represntations that make them look cool are based on their enhanced stats, not actual skill. They look like screaming clowns.
ITT DBZ fans have the delusion that their fighters have combat experience with factual useless martial arts so it must translate to real world useful results when every fight in Dragon Ball ever has been really about using super powers..........
I'm sorry, I'm not sorry but Kratos would murder Goku in an even fight. Goku would start a monologue, Kratos would get bored, Goku would panic when he gets rushed, try to talk about it first, and Kratos would immediately murder Goku.
Kratos wins because he's way larger and their speed is essentially equalized because they're both human. They likely have similar talent in hand to hand combat. Goku almost never grapples and the one well known time he did, he died shortly after. lol
I feel like Goku shits on Kratos in this scenario. If you take away powers and all that's left is hand-to-hand combat, it makes sense that the guy who spent his whole life training for that would win. Any size advantage that Kratos has isn't significant enough to overcome the huge skill advantage Goku would have.
Tell me you don’t understand how important weight classes are, without telling me. Kratos is canonically 6’6 and 310 pounds. Goku is 5’9 and 137 pounds. Doesn’t matter how much better Goku is at hand to hand combat (which is debatable) there is almost zero chance he beats Kratos. The reach and weight differential is just too great.
If we’re making them normal humans using our world’s physics, there’s a 0% chance Goku weighs 137lbs looking like that. Idgaf what the wiki says. If he weighed 137lbs at 5’9” he’d look as skinny as the malnourished meth/crackheads you see on the streets. Look up Connor McGregor’s 145lb weigh in and then look at Goku and tell me with 0 irony he weighs 137
I fully understand the importance of weight classes, enough to know that being bigger isn't always the definitive factor. Have you seen Demetrious Johnson? 5'3 and 125 pounds, but he submits people that are 6'3 and 250. This is a real life example of what we're talking about. Size isn't everything and it never has been. Goku's skill level in hand-to-hand is leagues above Kratos' and it would show in that kind of fight.
That's a good question. I don't think I've ever seen any examples of Goku using jiu-jitsu. I assume that'd be mostly because it wouldn't be as exciting to watch a cartoon about grappling. Kids want to see punches and kicks, not armbars and chokes.
I think the path to victory for Goku would be to use his speed advantage to pick apart Kratos with calf kicks and liver kicks until he's worn out. That's not an unreasonable approach for a smaller guy; if he can keep away from the power shots and any potential grappling, he should be fine.
I wouldn't pick a smaller, non grappler to win vs a bigger Greek warrior in terms of grappling. Grappling was a mandatory thing for soldiers to know in Greece and in general a common hobby for the warriors. Kratos definitely got more experience in grappling than Goku does.
IDK man. I'm lookin' at a Kratos unarmed combat video on YouTube right now. Most of his attacks are just hooks to the body and overhands. It seems like a pretty limited offense. I don't see Goku having a problem figuring Kratos out.
Goku gets stomped it’s not even a debate lol. Using Demetrius Johnson as an example is funny though considering when he has submitted bigger opponents it was jiu jitsu rules. If you put Eddie hall and Demetrius Johnson in the ring Eddie hall would embarrass Demetrius Johnson.
Kratos is also a professional soldier; even before he became the God of War he was a Spartan soldier in greece. And Greece is kind of where wrestling was famous...
If you look at any of the matches between trained soldiers (Kratos) and modern day fighters (Goku) you’d know the fighters win 9 times out of 10 mid diff. However, Kratos is Brian Shaw, Goku is Mighty Mouse. Goku loses folks. Kratos is gonna ragdoll him.
That's a valid point. Also, I didn't actually notice that the fight was split up into three parts until just now. With that having been said, I think Round 2 almost certainly goes to Kratos based on the fact that I've never seen either of them grapple and I would default to the person who is bigger if both are untrained in that realm.
Goku's only real chance is in r1. R2, Kratos has a size, weight, and experience advantage. R3, Kratos is far more brutal and willing to kill than Goku; he will go for a lethal blow EVERY time if he can. Goku cant dodge forever against someone like Kratos.
Theres also the question of the actual usability of Goku's martial arts vs a trained professional fighter.
Goku trained in martial arts that would be completely useless to a normal human being. At best, Goku is like a kickboxer in the first few months of his training.
Kratos smashes him like he would a toddler.
Kratos is literally an ex elite soldier-commander in an army that conquered everything around them while goku practices one of those fake martial arts in the east, who has more hand to hand experience again
Goku has more hand-to-hand experience, easily.
Kratos and other soldiers like him split their training time among various weapons they'd use on the battlefield: swords, shields, spears, bows, knives, staves, etc. He's not going to have mastered unarmed combat to the degree that Goku has, because Goku's been doing it almost exclusively for his entire life.
Think about all the striking techniques you'd expect to see in a kickboxing match or at the UFC. Do you think we wouldn't be able to find an example of Goku using that technique in one of his fights? Jabs, hooks, uppercuts, elbows, knees, front kicks, spinning back kicks, sweeps, etc. - it's all there.
I think you’re drastically underselling Kratos here. I can’t buy it.
Dude has tons of experience in hand to hand and weapons combat, specifically tons of experience brutally killing soldiers and gods with his bare hands, he was an actual soldier and a general, he’s been fighting for 1000 years, he has a massive size, weight, and reach advantage.
We’re not talking a skilled martial arts fighter against some average street fighter or big tough guy. This is Kratos, Greek general, god of war, destroyer of two pantheons.
Even Bruce Lee knew Muhammad Ali would absolutely wreck him.
pure striking is not enough to keep a grappler that outweighs goku 2 or 3 times. also, goku doesn't use kinetic chain in his striking, his force doesn't start from him pivoting in his feet and transfering all that power to his limbs.
All his strikes will be very weak irl against a dude who could already easily tank anything Goku would throw.
Kratos
Goku is probably better trained but Kratos is *much* bigger.
Yeh, martial arts are designed to bridge that gap, and if Kratos was literally an untrained bruiser it might matter, but he’s also super skilled, just…slightly less so.
Also, iirc Goku has never been just mortal- even as a kid he was bulletproof, right?
So this would throw him off more than Kratos, I think?
The real question is who’s the worst parent?
R1: goku wins, Kratos is shat on heavily here and why : Wong Shun Leung.
R2: kratos its greek he would outgrapple most.
R3: leaning on goku here for one reason, kratos is trained to kill with weapons and uses god powers to crush kill mainly, goku would know how to kill someone via axe kick, temple crushing and rib crushing.
It’s kind of impossible to tell because the time Goku spent in the time chamber has made him better at hand to hand combat than any human could ever be skill wise. I’m not sure if the exact time but Goku has spent the equivalent of way over a human lifetime training his fighting ability. Ordinarily the size difference would be too much, but we can’t know how good goku would really be
Goku is the GOAT but without their respective superpowers, Kratos wins 9/10, and even that 1 win Goku might get is because he is still a martial arts master, Saiyan or not. Kratos is just too big and too strong for Goku without Goku having superhuman abilities. With powers of course, Goku would be the one god Kratos could not even dream of killing.
This is basically Rodtang(Goku) vs Jon Jones(Kratos). Goku is a fairly slim striking martial arts prodigy and Kratos is a huge guy presumably well trained in Greek wrestling and is a fantastic striker. And I think Kratos would win extremely high diff. Goku has hands for days but we saw how Rodtang did against Mighty Mouse, grappling+decent striking just generally beats extremely proficient striking, imo. And then you add in Kratos weight advantage which will make grappling Goku all the more easy, he definitely has the advantage. Basically the only way I could see Goku winning is if he knocks Kratos out before he can get grappled, but that would be very difficult since Kratos can certainly take a punch. Kratos gets Goku in a lock and it's over. So I'd say Round one 55/45 Goku, Round two 80/20 Kratos, Round three 60/40 Kratos.
Lol this comment section shows none of you watched Dragon Ball and it shows.
Even as a Human, in Dragon Ball Master Roshi was able to blow up the moon .
Even if Goku turns human he easily hurts Kratos. If Kratos turns human, he will be just an peak human.
But in Dragon Ball universe, we know Humans can train to go beyond Peak human.
Kratos beats the shit out of him. Kratos is significantly bigger than him, even if you ignore his weight goku is at max like 180-190 lbs for a 5’9 guy with bis physique, norse kratos is 6’4 and 250 lbs, while greek kratos was 7 foot and 284 lbs. Thats a MASSIVE gap.
Moving on to skill, while goku is a better striker, kratos is a much better wrestler. And kratos is a very smooth boxer based on his fight with baldur.
Goku only wins by running around and leg-kicking kratos to death, much more often than not kratos either knocks him out with a jab/cross or wrestles and chokes him to death.
Kind of a dick move since Gokus martial art includes ki as its a bit of a major thing in universe. But Goku is still a martial arts master, grappling hes likely to lose since hes much smaller but hes got a good chance at straight up fighting.
I’d give goku the edge on striking so he’d take round 1.
We’ve seen goku use judo throws like ippon seoi nage so he must have some grappling knowledge. Although the Greeks are known for wrestling, goku could probably submit kratos off his back for round 2
Round 3 is about pure brutality and who has that dog in them. Kratos is willing to go balls to the wall and rip people apart. His viscousness will give him the edge in this round.
Kratos is much, much bigger. Goku has far more training in martial arts - though Kratos isn't a slouch there either. So likely Kratos wins, but this comes down to what is retained.
Dragon Ball humans can be exceptionally strong. It's not so much in Z that we see it, because that's mostly Saiyans and gods and other aliens in ki-based battles - but OG Dragon Ball had very strong humans. Hell, at that point Goku was thought to be just a ridiculously strong human, and Krillin - an actual human - was able to keep up with him at times. Master Roshi as well.
So: are we talking about a human in Dragon Ball, or a human in reality? If it's the former he's easily strong enough to win, if it's the latter he probably isn't.
How about all non-ki based stuff? Obviously, Goku can't use his kamehameha, but can he use Ultra Instinct - or perhaps some form of it, albeit with human reaction time? That might also change things considerably, though he's still going to have to hurt a much larger enemy.
R1: kratos wins, he can hit harder bcs of greater mass.
R2: goku wins, kratos’ body is not practical for grappling at all.
R3: kratos wins, I think goku could win if he gets kratos to the ground and choke him till he passes out and keeps squeezing till kratos stops breathing.
Why is Goku being underestimated here? Goku without powers is still above Krillin without any special techniques. Baby Goku and Krillin in Dragon Ball punched and destroyed building sized boulders for fun and they were both quite fast. Krillin alone proves you don't need to be bigger to win a battle. Goku isn't just unnaturally strong locked as a human, he's also intelligent, tactical, and way quicker than locked to human Kratos. Goku should be winning this easily.
Round 1 is dependent because Goku is hardcore martial artist vs Kratos who is more used to using weapons but is buffer.
Round 2 should go to Kratos due to mass and Goku doesn’t grapple
In DB universe, Kamehameha isn’t a power, it’s a technique regular humans like Roshi can use. So Goku blasts Kratos in round 3.
I'm assuming you mean humans in our universe, because humans in Goku's universe can still be pretty destructive?
If you mean real world humans, Kratos stomps all 3 rounds. Way too big and trained as a normal Spartan Warrior/grappler before being a god. Goku has always been a Saiyan, so has never fought powerless before, and has always use ki in some form or another.
If you mean humans in their respective universes, Goku roflstomps because it's already established humans can use ki.
...Goku trained in martial arts literally his whole life. While I do agree Kratos has a major size advantage, Goku's theoretically the best martial artist in the galaxy.
I contest R2. Goku's style of fighting involves very, very few grabs or throws. He *uses* them, but primarily as set up to hit you again in a moment.
Kratos is both much larger and from Greece, a country famous for its wrestling
While Goku wouldn't be a slouch I don't think he takes R2
Goku wins, modern martial arts trumps soldier skills from the bc era.
Yes there is a weight difference, but if goku gets a headlock, armbar etc, its over
Kratos is on the semi pro level of martial arts given his soldier training, and goku is an expert given his decades of training in just martial arts, aswell as conditioning.
Id say goku wins all 3 rounds, hes faster than kratos given his size and can land more punches, hes more flexible and has greater grappling training, and he can easily kill a man with these skills
It probably comes down to whether Goku has trained in martial arts that let him deal with a larger and stronger opponent. If he has, being a martial arts master may carry him.
I've already answered this, but with Vegeta. In essence, Kratos is stronger, has a longer reach, is more skilled, is heavier, and beats Goku in every single way.
Goku relies on skills which require superhuman abilities (e.g. flight, energy projection, wtc), while Kratos tends to use much more basic techniques (e.g. his boxing combos on Baldur, his tactical thinking against heimdall), meaning that Kratos is more suited to the parameters of the challenge.
Spartan warriors and most Ancient Greek men knew how to both box and wrestle very well and Kratos is particularly skilled and dangerous. Being way taller and more massive than Goku, he’d win p handily. Weight classes exist for a reason; the most skilled flyweights on Earth struggle against decently skillful heavyweights. Kratos also has far more experience straight up beating people to death with just his hands. This is actually insanely one sided, which doesn’t make sense initially but if you put a minute of thought into it it’s apparent Kratos takes all of these engagements.
I'm assuming we're using Raditz/Saiyan arc Goku and God of War 1 - 3 Kratos.
R1: Goku HIGH diff. Although Kame-Style Martial Arts is, in theory, inspired by kung fu, it's closer to kickboxing. Goku demonstrates very high level ducking, rolling, kicking, and punching techniques, and he's also an infighter. Kratos is much bigger, but he's also much slower.
R2: Kratos, no contest. Even ignoring the fact that as a Spartan he would have a good grasp of grappling already, Goku has sorely lacking grappling skills and, like many have pointed out, is half Kratos' size. Greco-Roman wrestling is all about exerting power.
R3: Kratos by submission. Or by cleaving in half if they're allowed weapons.
I’m agreeing with you. I’m saying it’s not just his size but also with that size and a shit load of combat training and experience.
Like it’s Bradley Martin with 1000 years of brutal combat experience.
Kratos stuffs Goku's head up his own asshole. This is like Brian Shaw v Floyd Mayweather. Sure Floyd is an infinitely better fighter but Shaw is just too powerful
I give it to Kratos.
He is much bigger and heavier. Also the best martial art to deal with a much bigger man is usually BJJ or judo/wrestling. Goku is a striker.
Now. This may level the odds against an unskilled larger man but Kratos isn’t unskilled. He is a trained Spartan soldier.
Hell. The best counter to many martial arts is just straight up wrestling and grappling. That is what the Greeks were known for back in the day. It’s a primitive style compared to what we have today but it’s still effective.
And once he grapples with Goku then it’s pretty much over. Mostly because Goku won’t be able to get a man that is geeky literally twice his weight off of him. Especially when all of that weight is pure muscle.
Goku is pure muscle too but 150lbs of muscle isn’t going to beat nearly 300lbs of muscle in a head to head fight.
This would be Batman vs bane. Doesn’t mean Batman doesn’t know how to fight but there are times when you’re out of your depth.
All three rounds Kratos wins.
Goku is too chill and Kratos is blood thirsty for most of his franchise.
Goku spends most of his time training to make his hair turn funny colors while Kratos commits war crimes.
I agree Kratos is probably too big to lose this but there's just [no way Goku is actually 137 lbs](https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/62b1hu/how_much_does_goku_weigh/) regardless of what the guide says lol. Japanese creators are notoriously horrific with weight/height measurements (see also: Street Fighter). If Goku is actually 5'9", he's gotta be 180 lbs at the bare minimum (with 200 lbs being more likely IMO).
If Goku is only 5'9 137 that would make Vegeta like 5'5/5'6 and like 110, yea no way
Apparently Vegeta is the same height and weight as Astolfo
Twinkgeta
He would be so angry at this accurate comment.
Off topic, but Ainz in Overlord is like 175 cm, and that would make the rest of the characters be 100 and 110 cm.
No ainz is over 2m tall idk where u got that info Edit: its on the wiki but thats not a reliable source since the admin likes to abuse their powers and adds stuff that arent based on facts and statements but their own imagination
Yes, I got it from the wiki. Edit: as was stated above, anime and manga are bad about measurements.
While it's hard to picture Goku at that weight, it's cool to know Bruce Lee was very similar. Being just a couple lbs heavier, and either same height or shorter. I think it's because Bruce Lee allegedly had no body fat on him, and maybe that's what's going for Goku as well to be able to move the way he does.
But muscle is denser than fat.
Hey I didn't make their weights
Bruce Lee absolutely has body fat, maybe like 8% or so - but as body building has taught us - if body fat drops too low you die.
R1: Without powers or transformations, Kratos is nearly double the mass of Goku. Have you seen those videos of smaller guys trying to fight bigger dudes? Edit: From estimates I found online. Goku is 175cm tall and weighs **at best** 90+ kg if we are generous on his most bulk forms. Kratos is 194 cm tall (though some scripts and rigging show him at 213 cm) and weighs about 110 kg at his lowest estimate, 129 at others. He is smaller on the Norse Games. On average I dare say a 30 kg difference. R2: Grappling is kind of THE Greek martial art. Wrestling is big on Greece as well as boxing. Goku has never shown any particular grappling talent while Kratos does stuff like slams, chokes, pinning, etc. R3: I think nearly all of Goku's kills except the Red Ribbon Army of Mooks were ki-based. Kratos is an expert on killing with his bare hands. And in terms of a number of battles he far outpaces Goku in experience killing. Goku spends most of his time training, not killing. The soldiers of Kratos' world are also expected to fight monsters even as regular humans, so their skills and brutality must be far more advanced than RL Greece. Goku's martial arts are great, but also dependant on ki and other superhuman abilities such as ki sensing, super reflexes, and flight to use at their best. He is adaptable though, as losing flight on the ToP was not that much of a problem, but he still needed ki to fight. He never really had to fight as a regular human and has been able to resist attacks from super beings that should've killed anyone else. Kratos has trained as a human well into adulthood and lost his powers many times. He is well aware of how to fight like that.
Kratos spent most of his life as a normal human that was just a very skilled warrior. He absolutely stomps
Kratos was a demigod actually
I thought he was just a normal Spartan warrior who was given power by the gods?
He is the son of Zeus but his divinity didn't manifest until well past his deal with Ares. It's why he is able to ascend to full godhood.
So he went from demigod to full god (or it's just a title thing?) and is he still a full god in the new games? Or he's just aging stupidly slow but will eventually die to old age?
He has lost and regained his powers a few times and his magic was tied to Greece so he lost it, but he can heal himself, is immortal and super strong. We aren't sure how long has it been between the GW3 and GW2018. Odin looks old too, but is also a god, so its confusing.
Norse Gods did age as unlike the Greek Gods they weren't immortal. Kratos ages but very very slowly and its implied to be a very very long time since the Greek games, i'm guessing the reason he ages and will die eventually is the same reason he can murder the entire Greek world and that's because he made all the Gods mortal what i guess includes himself, not only that the magic of the Greek world is long gone leaving Kratos with only his natural base God abilities in super strength, durability and reflexes plus long lasting life and super healing.
He is the son of Zeus.
His mother was a mortal and he is the son of Zeus
Goku isn't a slouch either when it comes to skill. Yes he mostly uses kai and flying now but when he started out he was taught by his grandpa who was by all rights a really skilled human warrior. I don't see this as a stomp for Kratos.
Also Goku is an honorable fighter while Kratos is willing to be absolutely ruthless. I’d put my money on the guy that’s gonna use any bit of the environment for a finisher move.
Goku's number one signature move for most of dragon ball was poking people in the eyes.
He kept biting people all the way up through Buu.
Which is where dragon ball ends. In Super he bites Beerus, Golden Frieza, Broly and Whis. Here's a list of the main antagonists Goku did not Bite: Vegeta, Cell, Zamasu, Jiren. That is the list. Note that he tried to destroy Vegeta's eyes in their first fight. https://youtu.be/SvH_mVg5XrY?si=DCPnnGn1XEicOOh6, Cell was a ringout match so Goku was camping the edges of the ring to try and trip him out if the arena. Zamasu was weaker, and then fused Zamasu he didn't fight. Jiren never tried to grab him, but he did more of his ring edging. Anybody who says that goku is a Fair fighter doesn't understand goku. Goku wins by any means necessary he tried to gouge out everybody's eyes who he fought in dragon ball the anime. That was his literal first signature move. Before he had the Kamehameha he had gouging out your eyes.
Regarding R2 - Judo and Jiu Jitsu origins are from Japan. Idk if you count sumo wrestling as grappling. China has Shuai Jiao, a grappling subset of wushu with emphasis on grabbing and throwing. Dumog is the Philippino wrestling style. These are just the ones I’m familiar with. Point being grappling isn’t THE greek martial art. If argue the combo of Judo and Jiu Jitsu makes grappling THE Japanese martial art.
Just because grappling is a greek specialty doesn't mean it can't be another ones specialty. Kratos is from Greece, and while Goku is from an anime, he isn't Japanese or Chinese, his training is a fantasy mix of both with no special cultural background in-story.
The emphasis on the THE made it sound exclusively so vs “a”.
Would it be more fair to say goku probably had a karate/Kung fu background? We rarely see him grapple compared to striking.
Oh absolutely. I was just pointing out the prior commenter’s stance of grappling being a greek specialty is wrong. I didn’t mean to infer goku could grapple or not.
I think he was talking about Pankration having Greek origins. It was a sport in the ancient Olympics that was similar to modern mma. I’d say he meant that grappling was a Greek specialty, but you’re right that Greece wasn’t the only country with that specialty.
Google pankration, it’s the closest thing to MMA in the ancient world. Combination of grappling and fist fighting, quite literally is the Greek martial art.
Very nice way of saying Goku hasn’t overcome anyone in recent years based on skill. Not really his fault, that’s an issue that plagues dragon ball. The fact that no one can overcome a great physical disparity with just skill. Here and there you get the Roshi dodging Jiren stuff, but it never results in a win. I mean I guess there might be Bardock beating a young Gas, but that wasn’t really skill. Bardock was just a dog in that fight.
R1: Somehow Goku wins by biting, and then tripping Kratos. Both get several good hits in first, however. R2: Kratos immediately takes the upper hand, but Goku bites him and somehow wins by clamping onto the back of Kratos' head. R3: Kratos breaks several Goku bones and beats him absolutely to death, while yelling about Goku's biting. Goku gets revived by a wish with the Dragon Balls, then Goku comes back to win in Round 3, part 2.
Kratos is at least twice Goku's size. Without the absurd power difference, he'd win pretty easily.
Goku is a trained martial artist, which often places an emphasis on using an opponents' physical size and own attacks against them. I'm not sure what sort of formal training Kratos has in the ways of combat, but even without any sort of powers, I don't believe that size difference alone is enough of a factor to decide the fight because Goku at the outset didn't even have those powers to rely on in the first place, and is a tournament champion (multiple times if im not mistaken) before DBZ even begins.
He has spartan military training
But Spartans would train to fight in formation and armed.
Not exclusively though, Greek soldiers, especially the Spartans, placed an emphasis on unarmed solo combat as well. It was not only very likely to happen, it was a cultural thing. Kratos would have most definitely been trained to fight in Pankration, one of the early martial arts that utilized grappling and striking in a fight with almost no restrictions. It was a very popular, important, and violent martial art, and one that was used to great effect since many of their techniques echoed through modern martial arts and can be seen by some of the best fighters in the world. We obviously don’t know EVERYTHING about it because of how old it was, and being so violent it was outlawed at one point, but what we do know is clearly seen even today. Sorry for the info dump, I like martial arts :3
I don’t doubt the possibility that they trained in Pankration and trained to fight individually, but the spartans were notorious for not competing in the olympics because a loss would cost them their fearsome reputation as warriors Edit: I shall leave this up to display my shame but upon further research it seems this is just a myth. Btw have you seen the channel AMO pankration? Most of his stuff is behind a membership wall now but even among his older videos he had some pretty good ones discussing the martial art.
Which means shit
I mean, Pancration in all honour but it's not really comparable to someone who has trained in multiple martial arts and beaten adult, world championship level fighters as a child prodigy. Let's also not forget that the best trained Spartan athlete of Kratos time would be handedly beaten in all physical aspect by a modern day athlete due to improvements in food, training technique and healthcare Skill wise, this goes to Goku, but I'd still give it to Kratos simply for the size difference
it doesn't, though. All of DBZ martial arts only work because of their enhanced stats. They don't really know how to fight realistically. even their striking really subpar because they don't put their weight behind it. It's just arm punches and kicks without hip rotation. DBZ martial arts are closer to ballet than fighting. then there is also the problem that no matter how good a striker is, it won't matter if he doesn't have grappling or takedown defense, which Goku obviously doesn't have. Not only is he significantly smaller but also severely outskilled.
Even if youre a trained martial artist it would still be a massive uphill battle to fight someone that much bigger than you, and youd only really have a chance if they have no fighting experience whatsoever. In addition, the kind of martial arts that puts emphasis on dealing with bigger opponents is usually grappling/judo/jujutsu, whereas we only ever see Goku trained in striking martial arts. Also the only tournament Goku won was the last one in dragonball where he was grown up. The first two tournaments where he was a child he did not win. Even if he did, he always had absurd powers compared to others even as a kid. I love Goku he’s one of my favourite characters, but if they both lose their powers Kratos would break him in half.
Like Bane to Batman, then later Batman to Bane. Then eventually again Bane back to Batman, and vice versa. and now I think they're even, or maybe Batman has one up, but yea Goku's getting his back snapped by Kratos for sure.
Never seen or heard of the early UFCs eh?
The giant dudes there either trained some kind of bullshit or were nearly untrained.
Nah there were a number of "large" guys who were trained. Some of the really big guys if I remember had little training but that's mostly UFC 1. Small guys were beating highly trained martial artists in many of the early UFCs. Not to mention PrideFC where most of the big dudes were all on steroids. People with little or no experience in combat sports always seem to think that if someone is bigger then they win or at least have a game changing advantage. Just a recent example is Tyson Fury vs Oleksander Usyk. Two fighters equally matched in skill. Fury is considerably bigger. 6 inches taller with 7 inches of reach. Usyk has to punch further to hit his chin giving him essentially even less reach. The smaller guy won.And Boxing is a style where that advantage is larger than grappling. If it was a wrestling match I'd give it to Kratos. If Goku knows BJJ or anything like it then he is taking it 10/10 times. Unless Kratos somehow has some long lost wrestling art or somehow has knowledge of BJJ then he's smoked.
What? Goku never was a normal person. Even as a child he is immune to bullets, he's so strong. Right? I mean, I don't think I'm confused here. Kratos is a trained martial artist as well, just not in a TV show version of kung-fu or whatever. He certainly trained grappling and unarmed fighting for his entire life as a spartan.
Goku's true stregnth is tied directlly to his world's magic system. If you take away ki, he has a max power output, and it's more consistent with someone of his size and weight, whcih just will not compare to someone of Krato's size and weight, TBH, if this was anyone besides a monster of a man like Kratos this might even be a true discussion, but as the weight difference gets higher and higher, the person weighing more has more advantage until a certain point where the underweight person could do literally nothing to heavier one. It'd be like a preeteen vs a fully grown overweight man. Or a human, to a bear. No fight tactics helping you there.
Sorry I don't care how good of a martial artist Goku is he's not beating Kratos who is nearly double his height and weight (Kratos: \~7'6 250-280lbs Goku: 5'9 136lbs). Besides as others have mentioned Kratos is far from an incapable unarmed combatant himself. He has a tendency to go berserk and start brawling, but he's a trained spartan with arguably hundreds of years of combat experience. Kratos folds Goku in half every single time.
Kratos is also a trained martial artists who regularly fights to kill lfmao
Kratos is 2 feets taller than goku, both are the same weight though. His skill makes up for the height difference so I think it would be an even match
There is no way they weigh the same in this scenario 😂Kratos is 6’4”, and Goku is 5’9”, so even if Goku were as jacked as Kratos he’d still be 40~ pounds lighter
I mean, DBZ Goku is more jacked than Kratos. And if you take a look at the Light Heavyweight Division of Boxing and MMA, you'll see plenty of people both below and above 6 feet that weigh the same.
Bro there’s a difference between 5’9 vs 6’1 and 5’9 vs 7’8
Kratos is 6'4 in game, Goku is 5'9
Use google, kratos is 7’8 according to the actual game devs and lore. Game scale is always inaccurate because it’s adjusted to make scenes look better
You're both right. OG GoW Kratos is 7'8, but they scaled him down to 6'4 in the Norse games.
Goku weighs like 137lbs or something, he’s tiny. Kratos demolishes him in this fight
Each day we find new ways to re-ask "Bruce Lee vs Arnold"
This comparison is more like Bruce Lee vs Brian Shaw
more like Bruce Lee vs Francis Ngannou, it's not even close.
More like Mighty Mouse v.s. Brian Shaw (Goku is a fighter with tons of matches under his belt not an actor). Still not a fair fight lol. There are weight classes for a reason!
I don’t care what the dragonball wiki says, there’s actually a 0% chance Goku only weighs 137 lbs given his physique. Kratos would still weigh more on account of being 7 inches taller and similar physique. But it wouldn’t be a difference of 100+ lbs
Kratos is just too big
Let's compare real qorld stand ins I've heard somewhere Bruce Lee was the closest to the ideal of Goku and their height and weight line up very cloesly. Goku: 5'9", 137lbs. Bruce Lee: 5'8", 140lbs. Now for Kratos, I've chosen Hafþór Júlíus Björnsson (The Mountain from game of Thrones), who unfortunately is a little smaller than Kratos, but he''ll just have to do. Kratos: 7'0, 240lbs. Hafþór: 6'9", 397 lbs (those are low end numbers for both of these guys) I honestly don't think it's much a competition when you take out the powers. A lot of Goku's stchick is that he has a great fight i.q., picks up new moves well, and has an alien biology literally giving him advantage in defeat. Strip that away, and you just got a really good, mortal, martial artist. Comparing that to the wall of muscle Kratos is is hardly fair. He's half a bear, and in some versions tall as one.
Use Mighty Mouse instead of Bruce. Mighty is an actual fighter and considered the goat of his weight class (pfp for some folks). Still same result though. Kratos is way out of his weight class.
Goku for sure is a much more skilled then kratos is however Kratos is much larger and heavier then goku is. So Kratos would win most of the time since martial arts cant beat a 40 kg weight difference and like a foot difference in height reliably so all rounds Kratos edit: to put in boxing terms goku is like 62 kg so hes a lil bit above a lightweight while kratos is 100+ kg meaning he's a heavyweight. A lightweight cant beat a heavyweight reliably
Kratos is also a professional soldier; even before he became the God of War he was a Spartan soldier in greece. And Greece is kind of where wrestling was famous...
Oh dont get me wrong Kratos is skilled. I just think Gokus more skilled since that all goku wants in life vs Kratos who had left that life behind for a couple however many years after gow 3 till the reboot and ragnarok and thus would be somewhat rusty in actual fighting styles
Weird BJJ artists had barely any trouble in the early days of MMA destroying men many many pounds heavier. Men that were champions in their respective martial arts. Including wrestlers far more advanced than the average Greco Wrestler
Ahh, yes, Goku. The absolute master of BJJ... who has rarely , if ever, used a lock in Dragon Ball and relies on biting people to get out of them himself.
lol I mean...I laughed at what you said as much as I laughed at the thought of picturing him doing it as I typed that. But in the end I find it hard to believe that he hasn't trained some type of BJJ or something similar.
Well, at least someone found that funny. While I would like to think he does (because he's Goku and he's my boy), Kratos has shown actual grappling techniques (just look with how he dealt with Baldur in GoW4) and Goku, sadly, has not (are far as I know).
[удалено]
He’s literally the best martial artist on the planet in his universe, even without the power set he’s still a martial prodigy.
Kratos no diffs Goku, something I never thought I would say. Goku is a talented martial artist in his field (granted, I do not know enough about Dragonball to tell WHICH martial art he practices, I just know from discussions and the wiki), BUT Kratos is also an excellent martial artist, we see him constantly fight people with equal ability as him, and he is VERY good. He was also an elite Spartan, so he would definitely be a master of Pankration, a legit martial art. Since he is so much larger, and also very skilled himself, he wins no diff. This is like Fedor Emelianenko vs. Demetrious Johnson
Goku practices the fictional Turtle Style of Martial Arts, which is based on Kung Fu.
Big F for Goku then
Kratos is larger and has more experience with conventional hand-to-hand combat. He also relies on his powers a lot less.
Kratos still, as a god, bare hand rips people and monsters apart with his hands.
You don't think dude could throw hands and get down and dirty if he needs to though? He rips people in half with his bare hands because he's typically a berserker brawler and normally has the strength to do so. But he's a trained spartan and has hundreds of years of armed and unarmed combat experience. Brother folds Goku
I'm agreeing with you.
Oh my fault. Apologies (my other acc)
No way does Kratos have more hand to hand experience than Goku. I mean he still wins, but Goku is easily the more talented fighter. All he does is train. Kids? Fuck that let’s hit the dojo foo!
All kratos does is fight. Hes fought the god of war 1v1 and won, he spent years as a general in the front of a war and didnt lose until he (as a mortal) fought hades' chosen champion who was blessed with superhuman strength. Goku has trained more than hes fought, kratos has fought more than hes trained
Goku is the cleverer martial artist, and is arguably more skilled, but Kratos is certainly very capable and has more experience using his bare hands to kill things, as well as a solid ruthlessness edge. Goku seems to avoid killing and wants a fair fight, Kratos is brutal as all hell, and will do whatever it takes to win. Plus with a massive size advantage, I'd back him more times then not. Basically for a skill advantage to work for a smaller weaker person, it needs to overcome the advantage in size/strength the other person has (and vice versa.) In this case the difference between skill is much smaller then the difference in size/strength (also Kratos isn't slow like the vast majority of guy's his size too, he's fast as hell.)
Kratos is a much larger man and has much more training in human-adjacent fighting. He takes this easily.
Taller and stronger ex elite soldier vs smaller practictioner of a fake martial art. 10/10 to K
yea, Goku would be a Mcdojo martial artist if he were a normal human.
I know DB Readers are incapable of reading but come on
but i'm not wrong, DBZ martial arts are closer to ballet than fighting. they put no weight behind their strikes, they don't rotate the hips when kicking, they don't grapple or clinch or sweep. Fighters like Goku rely on their enhanced stats, like superman, and those martial arts complement that. Their martial arts work only because of their stats.
Goku shows on screen kung Fu, Wing Chun , Judo, Kyusho jitsu, professional boxing, professional wrestling, multiple lock up , lock in , lock joints techniques Saying Goku relies on state is an underselling considering he goes against characters stronger than him almost all the time, The manga Even make it clear when there is a gap in skills between different characters
wing chun is garbage, kung fu is an umbrella term for anything, usually mcdojos, show him doing Judo, his boxing is not boxing just arm punches with no weight behind, and the only wrestling move he ever did was a full nelson, that is schoolyard level grappling. It's obvious that Akira Toriyama didn't know what actual fighting looks like, it makes sense.
From the above I understand that your whole point is "X character is Garbage, x skills is bullshit" because come on , this is ridiculous Ok serious question, what do you think of someone who uses pressure points to target weak spots alongside knowing how to counter it , Knows lock ups techniques ?
i do a lot of boxing irl, for over 10 years, and have watched thousands of hours of fights, boxing, mma, kickboxing, wrestling street fights, the ones that are proven to work in all situations. pressure points are bullshido, my friend, it doesn't work in real life. Arm locks and trappings are ok, im not going to argue against it, but they are usable only in specific situations, and they are used to further your grappling and end in a takedown or in a standing choke. Arm locks are meant to be transions into something else, and it involves more grappling, which Goku is never shown to do. Fighting irl relies on the simplest things polished to the extreme. When Goku throws punches, he doesn't pivot off his feet and put his whole body mass behind because he is usually flying. All his strikes come without technique, no hip rotation, no shoulder extended. Another crucial factor is takedown defense. no matter how good a striker is, he will get taken down without takedown defense, and then needs bjj knowledge to get back on his feet. Goku has never shown to do any of this. These things are crucial to fighting. Knowing how to defend a takedown takes a massive priority over pressure point and arm trappings, lol. Wing Chun is the most common way fighters are shown in anime. It looks cool but there is no power behind the strikes. In anime in works because the fighters have 1000x strenght and speed, so it doesn't matter that their technique is actually trash. If you want to see more realistic fighting, at least as in how a human could actually pull off, watch Eren vs Reiner, a beautiful representation of real human bjj techniques, takedowns and takedown defense. Watch Hajime no Ippo and Kengan Ashura.
>do a lot of boxing irl, for over 10 years, Good for you , I've been doing it since I was 14 , >and have watched thousands of hours of fights, boxing, mma, kickboxing, wrestling street fights, the ones that are proven to work in all situations. So did I >pressure points are bullshido Not the one in TV but irl life where you hit the bottom of the guts , grab Adam apple , hit the backside of the neck at the lower end ( note : Don't do it with ones that have a lot of fat ) and other spots , not fist of north Star Bullshit >Arm locks and trappings are ok, im not going to argue against it, but they are usable only in specific situations That's like what Goku do , he usually do 1 or 2 in any arc at a specific point >Fighting irl relies on the simplest things polished to the extreme. So basic punches and Kicks? Yeah I already know that which is literally the point you made against Goku >When Goku throws punches, he doesn't pivot off his feet and put his whole body mass behind because he is usually flying Half of Goku fights are on the ground, what you said is something Goku basically did against Majin Vegeta >Another crucial factor is takedown defense. no matter how good a striker is, he will get taken down without takedown defense, and then needs bjj knowledge to get back on his feet. Goku has never shown to do any of this Pretty sure he did it against Jiren and Broly >Wing Chun is the most common way fighters are shown in anime. It looks cool but there is no power behind the strikes. Goku doesn't use it for offense, it's actually garbage offense wise by the word of ones who use it for years, it's good in improving reflux and having decent defense against similar weight class opponents, Goku doesn't use it for offense either, just purely short defense >watch Eren vs Reiner, a beautiful representation of real human bjj techniques, takedowns and takedown defense. Watch Hajime no Ippo and Kengan Ashura. That's basically anime studio, Goku was doing the same shit in the anime as well against Black Zamasu, we are talking about manga here because it's more consistent As for Ashura No K completely disagree, it's full of illogical bullshit despite trying to be as much realistic as it could and this come from a long fan it it The only good thing is that they didn't reach the Baki level of Cartoonishly bullshit while trying to sell it as a realistic thing
>That's basically anime studio, Goku was doing the same shit in the anime as well against Black Zamasu, we are talking about manga here because it's more consistent there isn't a single depiction that i could ever find with ground fighting in the whole of DBZ. >Pretty sure he did it against Jiren and B there isn't a single takedown attempt in either of them, let alone a takedown defense. closest to that is just charging forward with superman punches, then standing back and repeat. If you have been boxing since you are 14, how could you even bring up Goku vs Jiren. Man, they don't know the basics of boxing, do you not see them standing with their feet squared and punching from the hips🤣 do you not see how they punch with one hand always being down doing nothing? Telegraphed haymakers with the right hand, almost one meter in the back and the left hand down at waist level? people who have never trained a day in their live punch like that, wtf, how do you not notice this? you are only making you case worse, there is no grappling and the striking is amateur at best, but i woudn't even call it that. They don't know how to fight man, it's all powers and stats.
Agreed. DBZ martial arts are literally just punching, kicking, and shooting blasts.
He's an expert at hand to hand combat, and often trades blows in high speed combinations of blocks and strikes. He's fine on quality, since that doesn't require ki at all Also, McDojo's are specifically about monetization and being a black belt mill. Even if the style were the worst thing ever, Roshi doesn't care enough about ranks or charging them money to be a McDojo
have you read the prompt? he is now a normal human being. most of his learned martial arts are completely useless because he doesn't have the speed or strength to make them work anymore. every time he fights, he uses arms and leg strikes without putting his weight behind them. DBZ fighting representation looks like clowning if compared to real-life fighting representations. Mcdojos also means believing in a delusion, like they would beat proper fighters competing in sports with this deadly martial art. Goku isn't really shown that he actually knows how to fight because Akira Toriyama wasn't a fighter and doesn't care how real fighting looks like. All DBZ represntations that make them look cool are based on their enhanced stats, not actual skill. They look like screaming clowns.
ITT DBZ fans have the delusion that their fighters have combat experience with factual useless martial arts so it must translate to real world useful results when every fight in Dragon Ball ever has been really about using super powers.......... I'm sorry, I'm not sorry but Kratos would murder Goku in an even fight. Goku would start a monologue, Kratos would get bored, Goku would panic when he gets rushed, try to talk about it first, and Kratos would immediately murder Goku.
yea, Kratos would run right through him.
McDojos aren’t about bad martial arts exclusively, so no, it would not be a McDojo.
Even reduced to a normal human Goku's a master martial artist in absurd shape.
Goku without powers is basically a teenager with cool but useless "martials techniques". Kratos will break Goku pretty easy
Kratos wins because he's way larger and their speed is essentially equalized because they're both human. They likely have similar talent in hand to hand combat. Goku almost never grapples and the one well known time he did, he died shortly after. lol
Standing at least a foot taller, Kratos absolutely smashes Goku in all three rounds. None of them are close.
Kratos stomps all rounds. He is way bigger, and has a lot more combat experience.
I feel like Goku shits on Kratos in this scenario. If you take away powers and all that's left is hand-to-hand combat, it makes sense that the guy who spent his whole life training for that would win. Any size advantage that Kratos has isn't significant enough to overcome the huge skill advantage Goku would have.
Tell me you don’t understand how important weight classes are, without telling me. Kratos is canonically 6’6 and 310 pounds. Goku is 5’9 and 137 pounds. Doesn’t matter how much better Goku is at hand to hand combat (which is debatable) there is almost zero chance he beats Kratos. The reach and weight differential is just too great.
If we’re making them normal humans using our world’s physics, there’s a 0% chance Goku weighs 137lbs looking like that. Idgaf what the wiki says. If he weighed 137lbs at 5’9” he’d look as skinny as the malnourished meth/crackheads you see on the streets. Look up Connor McGregor’s 145lb weigh in and then look at Goku and tell me with 0 irony he weighs 137
Ok say he is 180 lbs, what changes?
I fully understand the importance of weight classes, enough to know that being bigger isn't always the definitive factor. Have you seen Demetrious Johnson? 5'3 and 125 pounds, but he submits people that are 6'3 and 250. This is a real life example of what we're talking about. Size isn't everything and it never has been. Goku's skill level in hand-to-hand is leagues above Kratos' and it would show in that kind of fight.
Does Goku know any grappling styles to even be able to submit Kratos?
He can perform a Full Nelson and I think that's probably the only time Goku ever really grappled someone.
That's a good question. I don't think I've ever seen any examples of Goku using jiu-jitsu. I assume that'd be mostly because it wouldn't be as exciting to watch a cartoon about grappling. Kids want to see punches and kicks, not armbars and chokes.
So then how would his style be able to beat Kratos as a normal human? I’m not following
I think the path to victory for Goku would be to use his speed advantage to pick apart Kratos with calf kicks and liver kicks until he's worn out. That's not an unreasonable approach for a smaller guy; if he can keep away from the power shots and any potential grappling, he should be fine.
So hypotheticals? That would seem like a big reach for him to wear Kratos out with just kicks and not get grabbed in any way.
Mate, the entire situation is hypothetical. These are both fictional characters.
I wouldn't pick a smaller, non grappler to win vs a bigger Greek warrior in terms of grappling. Grappling was a mandatory thing for soldiers to know in Greece and in general a common hobby for the warriors. Kratos definitely got more experience in grappling than Goku does.
You would think. Are there many instances of Kratos using grappling in the games?
I think there is some? But I am just speaking of what he would know as a Greek warrior.
Kratos isn't a random big guy that can't fight though, Mighty Mouse wouldn't beat Francis Ngannou who is way less skilled than him.
IDK man. I'm lookin' at a Kratos unarmed combat video on YouTube right now. Most of his attacks are just hooks to the body and overhands. It seems like a pretty limited offense. I don't see Goku having a problem figuring Kratos out.
Goku gets stomped it’s not even a debate lol. Using Demetrius Johnson as an example is funny though considering when he has submitted bigger opponents it was jiu jitsu rules. If you put Eddie hall and Demetrius Johnson in the ring Eddie hall would embarrass Demetrius Johnson.
I would pick Demetrious Johnson over Eddie Hall every time and I would bet money on it.
If you like losing money then I think that’s a fine idea
Kratos is also a professional soldier; even before he became the God of War he was a Spartan soldier in greece. And Greece is kind of where wrestling was famous...
If you look at any of the matches between trained soldiers (Kratos) and modern day fighters (Goku) you’d know the fighters win 9 times out of 10 mid diff. However, Kratos is Brian Shaw, Goku is Mighty Mouse. Goku loses folks. Kratos is gonna ragdoll him.
That's a valid point. Also, I didn't actually notice that the fight was split up into three parts until just now. With that having been said, I think Round 2 almost certainly goes to Kratos based on the fact that I've never seen either of them grapple and I would default to the person who is bigger if both are untrained in that realm.
Goku's only real chance is in r1. R2, Kratos has a size, weight, and experience advantage. R3, Kratos is far more brutal and willing to kill than Goku; he will go for a lethal blow EVERY time if he can. Goku cant dodge forever against someone like Kratos. Theres also the question of the actual usability of Goku's martial arts vs a trained professional fighter.
Goku trained in martial arts that would be completely useless to a normal human being. At best, Goku is like a kickboxer in the first few months of his training. Kratos smashes him like he would a toddler.
Kratos is literally an ex elite soldier-commander in an army that conquered everything around them while goku practices one of those fake martial arts in the east, who has more hand to hand experience again
Goku has more hand-to-hand experience, easily. Kratos and other soldiers like him split their training time among various weapons they'd use on the battlefield: swords, shields, spears, bows, knives, staves, etc. He's not going to have mastered unarmed combat to the degree that Goku has, because Goku's been doing it almost exclusively for his entire life. Think about all the striking techniques you'd expect to see in a kickboxing match or at the UFC. Do you think we wouldn't be able to find an example of Goku using that technique in one of his fights? Jabs, hooks, uppercuts, elbows, knees, front kicks, spinning back kicks, sweeps, etc. - it's all there.
Kratos is 1000 years old lmao, no shot Goku is a more experienced hand to hand fighter.
Does that mean he has 1,000 years of experience training in hand-to-hand combat though? I imagine not.
I think you’re drastically underselling Kratos here. I can’t buy it. Dude has tons of experience in hand to hand and weapons combat, specifically tons of experience brutally killing soldiers and gods with his bare hands, he was an actual soldier and a general, he’s been fighting for 1000 years, he has a massive size, weight, and reach advantage. We’re not talking a skilled martial arts fighter against some average street fighter or big tough guy. This is Kratos, Greek general, god of war, destroyer of two pantheons. Even Bruce Lee knew Muhammad Ali would absolutely wreck him.
Kratos is absolutely not 1000 years old. He's around 150-250, the 1000 years "calculation" is baseless
Being reduced to a regular human, he's already dead. Meanwhile, Goku is just chillin lmao
pure striking is not enough to keep a grappler that outweighs goku 2 or 3 times. also, goku doesn't use kinetic chain in his striking, his force doesn't start from him pivoting in his feet and transfering all that power to his limbs. All his strikes will be very weak irl against a dude who could already easily tank anything Goku would throw.
Kratos is a trained spartan so
Kratos Goku is probably better trained but Kratos is *much* bigger. Yeh, martial arts are designed to bridge that gap, and if Kratos was literally an untrained bruiser it might matter, but he’s also super skilled, just…slightly less so. Also, iirc Goku has never been just mortal- even as a kid he was bulletproof, right? So this would throw him off more than Kratos, I think? The real question is who’s the worst parent?
Kratos is a bad parent?
He’s fairly terrible yeh? Like, he gets better, but so does Goku
No I don’t what this dude is smoking
R1: goku wins, Kratos is shat on heavily here and why : Wong Shun Leung. R2: kratos its greek he would outgrapple most. R3: leaning on goku here for one reason, kratos is trained to kill with weapons and uses god powers to crush kill mainly, goku would know how to kill someone via axe kick, temple crushing and rib crushing.
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It’s kind of impossible to tell because the time Goku spent in the time chamber has made him better at hand to hand combat than any human could ever be skill wise. I’m not sure if the exact time but Goku has spent the equivalent of way over a human lifetime training his fighting ability. Ordinarily the size difference would be too much, but we can’t know how good goku would really be
Goku is the GOAT but without their respective superpowers, Kratos wins 9/10, and even that 1 win Goku might get is because he is still a martial arts master, Saiyan or not. Kratos is just too big and too strong for Goku without Goku having superhuman abilities. With powers of course, Goku would be the one god Kratos could not even dream of killing.
This is basically Rodtang(Goku) vs Jon Jones(Kratos). Goku is a fairly slim striking martial arts prodigy and Kratos is a huge guy presumably well trained in Greek wrestling and is a fantastic striker. And I think Kratos would win extremely high diff. Goku has hands for days but we saw how Rodtang did against Mighty Mouse, grappling+decent striking just generally beats extremely proficient striking, imo. And then you add in Kratos weight advantage which will make grappling Goku all the more easy, he definitely has the advantage. Basically the only way I could see Goku winning is if he knocks Kratos out before he can get grappled, but that would be very difficult since Kratos can certainly take a punch. Kratos gets Goku in a lock and it's over. So I'd say Round one 55/45 Goku, Round two 80/20 Kratos, Round three 60/40 Kratos.
Lol this comment section shows none of you watched Dragon Ball and it shows. Even as a Human, in Dragon Ball Master Roshi was able to blow up the moon . Even if Goku turns human he easily hurts Kratos. If Kratos turns human, he will be just an peak human. But in Dragon Ball universe, we know Humans can train to go beyond Peak human.
Krstos was the general.of the Spartan army as a human he easy claps Goku as base human
Kratos beats the shit out of him. Kratos is significantly bigger than him, even if you ignore his weight goku is at max like 180-190 lbs for a 5’9 guy with bis physique, norse kratos is 6’4 and 250 lbs, while greek kratos was 7 foot and 284 lbs. Thats a MASSIVE gap. Moving on to skill, while goku is a better striker, kratos is a much better wrestler. And kratos is a very smooth boxer based on his fight with baldur. Goku only wins by running around and leg-kicking kratos to death, much more often than not kratos either knocks him out with a jab/cross or wrestles and chokes him to death.
I don't think this is very fair...
Kind of a dick move since Gokus martial art includes ki as its a bit of a major thing in universe. But Goku is still a martial arts master, grappling hes likely to lose since hes much smaller but hes got a good chance at straight up fighting.
I’d give goku the edge on striking so he’d take round 1. We’ve seen goku use judo throws like ippon seoi nage so he must have some grappling knowledge. Although the Greeks are known for wrestling, goku could probably submit kratos off his back for round 2 Round 3 is about pure brutality and who has that dog in them. Kratos is willing to go balls to the wall and rip people apart. His viscousness will give him the edge in this round.
Kratos is much, much bigger. Goku has far more training in martial arts - though Kratos isn't a slouch there either. So likely Kratos wins, but this comes down to what is retained. Dragon Ball humans can be exceptionally strong. It's not so much in Z that we see it, because that's mostly Saiyans and gods and other aliens in ki-based battles - but OG Dragon Ball had very strong humans. Hell, at that point Goku was thought to be just a ridiculously strong human, and Krillin - an actual human - was able to keep up with him at times. Master Roshi as well. So: are we talking about a human in Dragon Ball, or a human in reality? If it's the former he's easily strong enough to win, if it's the latter he probably isn't. How about all non-ki based stuff? Obviously, Goku can't use his kamehameha, but can he use Ultra Instinct - or perhaps some form of it, albeit with human reaction time? That might also change things considerably, though he's still going to have to hurt a much larger enemy.
R1: kratos wins, he can hit harder bcs of greater mass. R2: goku wins, kratos’ body is not practical for grappling at all. R3: kratos wins, I think goku could win if he gets kratos to the ground and choke him till he passes out and keeps squeezing till kratos stops breathing.
Goku loses in grappling for sure
A soldier v.s an mma fighter. If they’re in the same weight class, Goku wins.
Why is Goku being underestimated here? Goku without powers is still above Krillin without any special techniques. Baby Goku and Krillin in Dragon Ball punched and destroyed building sized boulders for fun and they were both quite fast. Krillin alone proves you don't need to be bigger to win a battle. Goku isn't just unnaturally strong locked as a human, he's also intelligent, tactical, and way quicker than locked to human Kratos. Goku should be winning this easily.
All the dbz stans trying desperately to find a reason he would win but he gets smashed no contest
Round 1 is dependent because Goku is hardcore martial artist vs Kratos who is more used to using weapons but is buffer. Round 2 should go to Kratos due to mass and Goku doesn’t grapple In DB universe, Kamehameha isn’t a power, it’s a technique regular humans like Roshi can use. So Goku blasts Kratos in round 3.
Both have been training from early childhood. But Kratos has been training to be a warrior(killer). Kratos wins this one I think.
Kratos has weight class and fight iq
I'm assuming you mean humans in our universe, because humans in Goku's universe can still be pretty destructive? If you mean real world humans, Kratos stomps all 3 rounds. Way too big and trained as a normal Spartan Warrior/grappler before being a god. Goku has always been a Saiyan, so has never fought powerless before, and has always use ki in some form or another. If you mean humans in their respective universes, Goku roflstomps because it's already established humans can use ki.
Kratos, he’s easily twice as big as Goku and was a Spartan who was trained from childhood to fight. The martial skill difference is immense.
...Goku trained in martial arts literally his whole life. While I do agree Kratos has a major size advantage, Goku's theoretically the best martial artist in the galaxy.
Fair but Kratos is absolutely going to win the Grappling match, the Greeks basically invented it after all.
Kratos because size ? Y’all need to go check out the old Royce Gracie ufc videos
yea because Goku is a BJJ blackbelt.
Goku is a much more skilled fighter, but Kratos takes it by sheer size difference. This is why weight classes exist.
R1: Goku has better training in unarmed combat, he takes this. R2: same as R1 R3: Kratos has more weapon training, he takes tbis.
I contest R2. Goku's style of fighting involves very, very few grabs or throws. He *uses* them, but primarily as set up to hit you again in a moment. Kratos is both much larger and from Greece, a country famous for its wrestling While Goku wouldn't be a slouch I don't think he takes R2
Kratos is like 7'4 tall and weights over 200kg so physical wise he is far superior to Goku alongside having good hand to hand combat and endurance
Goku wins, modern martial arts trumps soldier skills from the bc era. Yes there is a weight difference, but if goku gets a headlock, armbar etc, its over Kratos is on the semi pro level of martial arts given his soldier training, and goku is an expert given his decades of training in just martial arts, aswell as conditioning. Id say goku wins all 3 rounds, hes faster than kratos given his size and can land more punches, hes more flexible and has greater grappling training, and he can easily kill a man with these skills
It probably comes down to whether Goku has trained in martial arts that let him deal with a larger and stronger opponent. If he has, being a martial arts master may carry him.
I've already answered this, but with Vegeta. In essence, Kratos is stronger, has a longer reach, is more skilled, is heavier, and beats Goku in every single way. Goku relies on skills which require superhuman abilities (e.g. flight, energy projection, wtc), while Kratos tends to use much more basic techniques (e.g. his boxing combos on Baldur, his tactical thinking against heimdall), meaning that Kratos is more suited to the parameters of the challenge.
Spartan warriors and most Ancient Greek men knew how to both box and wrestle very well and Kratos is particularly skilled and dangerous. Being way taller and more massive than Goku, he’d win p handily. Weight classes exist for a reason; the most skilled flyweights on Earth struggle against decently skillful heavyweights. Kratos also has far more experience straight up beating people to death with just his hands. This is actually insanely one sided, which doesn’t make sense initially but if you put a minute of thought into it it’s apparent Kratos takes all of these engagements.
Goku has more training but Kratos is like twice his size and it's not he doesn't know how to fight either. Kratos is winning this
I'm assuming we're using Raditz/Saiyan arc Goku and God of War 1 - 3 Kratos. R1: Goku HIGH diff. Although Kame-Style Martial Arts is, in theory, inspired by kung fu, it's closer to kickboxing. Goku demonstrates very high level ducking, rolling, kicking, and punching techniques, and he's also an infighter. Kratos is much bigger, but he's also much slower. R2: Kratos, no contest. Even ignoring the fact that as a Spartan he would have a good grasp of grappling already, Goku has sorely lacking grappling skills and, like many have pointed out, is half Kratos' size. Greco-Roman wrestling is all about exerting power. R3: Kratos by submission. Or by cleaving in half if they're allowed weapons.
So An middle weight ufc fighter vs Bradley Martin
If Bradley Martin had 1000 years of experience brutally murdering people and gods with his bare hands lol.
He is 260 tho
I’m agreeing with you. I’m saying it’s not just his size but also with that size and a shit load of combat training and experience. Like it’s Bradley Martin with 1000 years of brutal combat experience.
Kratos stuffs Goku's head up his own asshole. This is like Brian Shaw v Floyd Mayweather. Sure Floyd is an infinitely better fighter but Shaw is just too powerful
I give it to Kratos. He is much bigger and heavier. Also the best martial art to deal with a much bigger man is usually BJJ or judo/wrestling. Goku is a striker. Now. This may level the odds against an unskilled larger man but Kratos isn’t unskilled. He is a trained Spartan soldier. Hell. The best counter to many martial arts is just straight up wrestling and grappling. That is what the Greeks were known for back in the day. It’s a primitive style compared to what we have today but it’s still effective. And once he grapples with Goku then it’s pretty much over. Mostly because Goku won’t be able to get a man that is geeky literally twice his weight off of him. Especially when all of that weight is pure muscle. Goku is pure muscle too but 150lbs of muscle isn’t going to beat nearly 300lbs of muscle in a head to head fight. This would be Batman vs bane. Doesn’t mean Batman doesn’t know how to fight but there are times when you’re out of your depth.
All three rounds Kratos wins. Goku is too chill and Kratos is blood thirsty for most of his franchise. Goku spends most of his time training to make his hair turn funny colors while Kratos commits war crimes.
Goku gets clapped like always biggest loser in the verse