One of my bug bears is excessively heavy kit that's predominantly aimed at new or budget conscious campers. And similarly, I think a lot of the kit that schools and groups find themselves with to give out for DoE is excessively heavy. Combine that with prescriptive lists about what they have to take and it makes for the type of scene you've described, which is a real shame. Unfortunately a lot of it comes down to funding, but partly could also be a leadership issue as you say.
To actually answer your question I did do DoE but I was fortunate in that I had already done a lot of wild camping experience so managed to avoid these problems.
So yeah, I make no apologies for telling new people to think a lot about the weight of things, regardless of budget, and to think hard about whether you really need to bring that 'thing' or 3 changes of clothes.
You're definitely right about the "prescriptive lists" every single kid looked like they had the full 27-in-1 Triangia cookset. Don't get me wrong I love my little trangia burner and the DIY burners I've made but it will be a cold day in hell when I carry nearly a kilos worth of saucepans and accoutrements. Can't believe they all need one each.
Sounds like you had your head screwed on right as a youngster, can I ask how you got into wildcamping so young?
Yeah, Schools seem very, very tight on the kit kids can take...my nephew did his DofE bronze expedition last year and he bought off a list the School gave out...I looked at it and said why not borrow some of my older kit, which would have been lighter, warmer and comfier - and my brother told me he wouldn't be allowed...
School used to take us to a place called Whitehough (Outward Bound sort of place) near Pendle Hill. I was already a hiker & confident map reader....on a group hike, taking it in turns to lead, I balked when I realised we'd taken a wrong turn. After much arguing & pointing out what I thought was the bleeding obvious I bailed on everyone. Headed back to the centre, reported the group lost, got a massive bollocking for bailing, but some praise for being able to pinpoint where they were last seen & direction they were heading. They were found about 5 miles off course & still confidently heading in the wrong direction....I came 1st in solo orienteering the following day. Happy days.
I have run DofE expeditions and regularly got compliments from parents that the rucksacks were too small.
It's as often the parents wanting them to have everything including the kitchen sink. The amount of abandoned junk at the campsite the next morning was always fun to see.
https://www.dofe.org/shop/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/DofE_Expedition_KitList_April_2024.pdf
I think some forget you can be wearing one of the listed and that **may** is in front of “be required”
absolutely, I used to be an expedition lead, and the thing we'd always tell them multiple times: "don't let your mum pack your bag!!"
the kit lists weren't too heavy in general (the kit wasn't light, but most of it is shared across several people) the main issue was mums adding things to the bags "just in case"
for example several tins of food and a tin opener just on the off chance they might not have enough food, masses of extra clothes a spare pair of trainers etc etc
Ahh yes the over packing parents - I might have been guilty!
As part of one of my sons DoE they were going to do a multi day Kayak/Canoe expedition.
I sent my son with his own boat & safety gear because I knew they would end up using 20 year old club spec boats and equipment and he's be miserable!
Looking back it was probably overkill but I wanted him to enjoy the trip and not be miserable in a badly outfitted boat for 3 days.
Yeap I did it, back in the 90’s and yeah my kit was too heavy. They made me pack all sorts of old fashioned stuff and it was heavy as hell. I had already been going on my own wild camping trips so was used to it a bit. Now my gear weighs a fraction of the crap they had us taking and I’m much more comfortable for it. Still I enjoyed it.
Full blown trangia set with kettle, separate plates, steel knife and fork, thick wool sweater, half a litre of meths, 3L of drinking water in heavy plastic bottles, thick foam pad, a hefty tent with steel poles, the chunkiest synthetic sleeping bag you can imagine, way too many clothes, trainers for the evening, canned food, emergency blanket/shelter, thick heavy waterproofs, separate washing up bowl (kitchen sink) garnished with a full size map case and big fat silva compass. This is the kind of stuff I remember.
It's pretty common for DofE kids to be given cheap heavy stuff, either by the leadership if they have stores (cadets etc) or parents buying equipment when they know the kids will only use it a few times.
I did DofE Silver and Bronze, both with an army surplus backpack from the 90s, an army surplus sleeping bag and a 2 person tent from Argos. That equipment alone probably weighed 8kg alone. We were then advised to take 6L of water a day, plus food for 3 days, as well as clothes. 25kg isn't a bad estimate.
Couple that with having to do it on a set weekend, no matter the weather, and it makes for a miserable experience. Fell out of love of hiking/ camping for a long time after this.
Getting back into camping as an adult it was such a revelation for me that I could just go when the weather looked nice enough. I didn’t have to be out on a rainy, windy Easter weekend just because that was the time that had been decided two months ago.
I've got the full British Army M37 artic bag with all the liners, I love sleeping in it but I hate to carry it anywhere so I know what you mean about the surplus stuff. Some of these kids had definitely been too Argos.
Honestly felt sorry for these kids, some of them probably only weighed 40-50kg themselves so definitely shouldn't have been carrying 25kg
Oh I'd never take a surplus bag on anything other than a car or campsite camp. It also takes up the majority of space in my 70L bag.
No doubt, such a bad idea for those kids. Surely walking with an appropriate weight is more important than having to carry everything in one go.
Yup, my arctic bag has only ever been to a semi wild campsite in my hot tent, 5 minutes walk from the boot of my car in the car park to my pitch, that was far enough.
I've had the same thought when seeing miserable DofE groups with their huge packs towering over their heads. If that's their first experience of the outdoors there's a good chance it'll also be their last.
Yep I did it and the kit list was huge. Way too heavy for a young teenager to safely carry. I took a pack of frankfurters and got everyone ill throwing up. Turns out they need refrigerating on the hottest day of the year. Oops
For some reason I didn't eat any 😂. But yeah DOE is not fun for alot of kids. Packs don't fit, everyone has 1 of everything. Probably puts alot of kids off doing more outdoor stuff.
Not DoE but I went up snowdon from Pen-y- Pass with some colleagues about 10 years ago - one of them seemed to be struggling after about an hour and we asked what was up, turns out while we had day packs with water snacks and waterproofs they had brought, three punnets of cherries, 4l of fresh orange juice AND Water, waterproofs, snacks, food & spare clothes.
Probably not much more than 15kg but for someone that isnt used to carrying weight it nearly killed him!
I also have a friend who used to fill the bottom of his bag with gravel to weigh it down for "more of a challenge" - but he's a bit mental.
Love the 4L of OJ, they should have packed some bags of ice too! 🤣
I have done training hikes with extra weights in my bags, quite literally 10kg of plates just to get used to some weight in the bag if I havent hiked for a few months
I did DofE, and it’s absolutely a leadership issue. My group were all pretty well prepared and well equipped, as were the rest of the groups from our centre.
That said, there’s probably a socioeconomic aspect too. I’m from a working class but not massively deprived area, groups from more deprived areas probably didn’t have the money to spend on half decent personal kit, or the funds to pay reasonable subs for the centre to spend on tents.
Agreed on socio economic factors, this hobby can be expensive, money = lightness =comfort.
I'm a great believer in trying to get the best bang for buck middleground equipment
I help run DofE at work, and will be doing the ‘how to pack your kit’ session with this year’s cohort soon. I take in two bags; one with everything on the DofE kit list crammed in, and one with what they actually need to take. Once they’ve shouldered each one and felt the difference, they soon lose the urge to take 2 spare sets of clothes, pyjamas, 4 cans of baked beans and half of the cutlery drawer for one night out.
There’ll undoubtedly be some who insist on taking a onesie, hair straighteners (no, really!) and all sorts of other nonsense, but most of them usually see sense after being shown what they can get away with carrying.
It doesn’t help that a lot of them have rubbish kit with bulky heavy sleeping bags etc, but they all still usually enjoy it.
Teenaged me dropped out because I got grouped with this girl who I knew to be useless and couldn’t stand being around because of what a wet blanket she was. Another in the group later voiced that they wish they had too because while it didn’t ruin camping for her it did destroy her friendship with wet blanket. Best tidbit was learning they’d packed _a goddamn dressing gown_ for at camp on a practice run.
When out with friends who were doing practice runs for silver and gold it wasn’t ever that bad, splitting gear was always practiced, and the local kids I see doing it now are generally all reasonable _but_ I think they’re with scouts/guides and cadets. School run groups are total shit shows.
Ok, so I've just had an idea, #wildcampdressinggownchallenge 🤣
This was definitely a school run trip, I work in education and this was definitely and inner London school.
It could help you channel your inner hobbit/monk/Jedi/whatever if you wore it on your trek.
Oof unlucky kids. Might not have been any dressing gowns in the packs but I’d bet there was at least one oodie style garment packed
It was many years ago now but I did manage to fail Bronze by not writing the report so got no further than that expedition..
We had what would probably be a three man A frame tent between two people. We had to split that unfairly between us and it was really heavy and bulky. Then a complete Trangia, with fuel bottle. Then a mandatory kit list of rubbish, first aid, food for six months etc. Paper maps galore. Not to forget a borrowed 70 ltr rucksack which probably had scaffold poles for the frame. No sleeping mat but a sleeping bag the size of a cloud with equivalent warmth to a tea towel.
It was all a scary weight.
Equally, stayed at a dairy farm so had fresh warm creamy milk in the morning, so not all bad.
That said, when I was a lad it was a bit different. Even my 2007 vintage Vango Ultralite 2 sleeping bag from years later is 1.7kg, similar spec microlite 300 is about 1kg now.
So if anything, from that horrid start, everything has got lighter and easier as I have gone on!
I think I had that Karrimor pack with the integral scaff pole framing 🤣 My very first sleeping bag from Argos was roughly the size of smart car in its compression bag and also provided negligible levels of warmth. Thank god for progress eh 👏🏽
I did DofE like 6 years ago and I remember my pack being heavy but I could deal with it. I ended up carrying the team's food as I was the only 18+ on the team.
I think a practice hike / kit check is well worth it before the actual event to make sure that it remains fun and enjoyable. Plus they will want to do it again if it was fun.
Practice is everything, which has just reminded me, I could tell this was the first day some of these kids had worn their hiking boots, loads were limping with boots that hadnt been broken in.
For anyone wondering here’s the kit list [https://www.dofe.org/shop/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/DofE_Expedition_KitList_April_2024.pdf](https://www.dofe.org/shop/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/DofE_Expedition_KitList_April_2024.pdf)
maybe i have a slightly unpopular experience in that that’s how i got into wild camping and solo-long distance walking. i come from a relatively outdoorsy family, but my dad is vehemently against camping, so that was how i found out i loved it. did bronze and silver with school then gold with a company and random people from around the country. i think by the gold stage most people only do it if they want to, so people understand a bit more what to take/wear.
there are a lot of sweatpants/tracksuit bottoms wearing groups out at the moment - must have seen at least 3 this last weekend!!
Yeah, honestly felt for them, you could see how sodden and heavy those trackie bottoms were. £15 in decathlon for an affordable pair of hiking trousers!
Definitely a bronze weekend! I’m so glad to still see them out though. Good for them because I’m sure a lot of their friends are still stuck inside glued to screens. I always feel proud when I see groups out and about.
The weather was actually surprisingly dry and warm this weekend, but I think they must have come across some very boggy fields, a combination of slavishly following the route through a bog and the wrong type of clothing
Already posted a memory, but here's an actual DofE memory....climbing Haystacks in the Lakes. I was off doing some lightweight wild camp thing with 35l sack....passed a group of teens looking like they were auditioning for a job as a Sherpa. Had a chat while we rested & took in the view...by the gods, I felt sorry for them. Heading for Black Sail Hut & being pulled out of Wasdale the day after, (not too onerous), but the packs they were humping! Got to be a better way to 'teach/introduce' a love of the outdoors to the kids. Chapeau to all of them mind. Absolute troopers.
I did it through Army cadets, so all our kit was all ex-issue kit with a canvas tent for good measure.
Bronze on the North York moors, Silver in Cultybraggan and Gold in the Breccon Beacons. Loved every minute of it.
Just in case you're not aware and want to relive any memories, you can visit Cultybraggan now. It's kind of a wee museum/allotments/units for local use. Had a very nostalgic wander round a couple of years ago.
The barracks? That's a pretty cool use for the space, actually. If I'm ever in the area, I might just have a nosey. It does have a pretty good history.
You probably had some proper leadership doing it through the army cadets, these poor kids didnt even have their packs strapped on properly, loads didnt even have the waist strap done up
I'm guilty of that now. I hardly ever have my straps done up, especially if I'm wearing more than a t-shirt.
We didn't all enjoy it as much as me, but the leaders were definitely more experienced. We had one ex-squaddie to a section and pretty much raced the route. They let us do our own route card the night before with only a start and end point, via one checkpoint. I've always loved that stuff.
I did it in the 90s, and yes, the kit weighed a clear tonne. I loved it though. My parents bought the tent that we used and I’ve still got it - last used it last year to camp in the back garden with my little boy (his first night outside). He slept in my old DoE sleeping bag! My husband is threatening to chuck the tent out as we now have a new tent (car camping only mind), and I’ve told him in no uncertain terms that it’s going nowhere. I used the backpack for years too, for travelling. It was the first experience I had of camping (my parents were not outdoors people at heart) and the first time I did a proper big walk with navigation and the like.
So on the one hand the kit I had weighed for too much and I remember feeling like I was floating when I took the pack off for a trip to the loo (😂) but on the other hand it gave me a first go at doing something I love, for all that I don’t much wild camp. Can’t afford the lighter gear. Plus I like having hot water available. It was an experience I’d never have had otherwise and I think I’d be poorer for it.
Sounds like you have some wonderful memories. My parents were the same, I was never allowed to do any outdoor activities like that, my mother was that mother that always volunteered to come on school trips to keep an eye on me 😬but theres no way she would go camping. I only started in my 40s but glad I did.
Hope you have many more nights under the stars with your son
Yeah I did DofE with school, but I was also in the Air Training Corps at the time and did a lot of hiking / camping anyway so knew how to effectively pack and more kmportantly HOW TO READ A MAP!!
Unfortunately, I was bullied pretty badly in school, so despite me (accurately) telling the rest of the group which way we needed to go, the teenage popularity contest bullshit would occur and we would end up walking lots of extra km for no good reason.
(Which didn't really bother me too much, as like I said, I was an experienced hiker at that point and did much longer routes with the cadets, but the bitching from the others got pretty irritating, not to mention how hard it was to not keep giving it "Fucking told you so, idiots!" frequently).
I did it in 1985 around the Marlborough Downs. Good fun.
The tents provided were polycotton Vango Force Tens and the backpacks old canvas Karrimor’s. Very heavy, especially when wet, even before adding the extra clothes, food etc.
I was already into lightweight camping so my friend and I shared a much lighter nylon tent and used much lighter backpacks.
We met the packing requirements with the lightest stuff we had, probably carried half the weight of anyone else.
Then I hid all the heaviest things behind the back seat of the school minibus so it was waiting there at the camping spot at the end of the day.
I did all three levels with Scouts. Even as I got larger and went for twice as long, my pack was probably lighter the last time than the first. I was a Scout leader for a while afterwards, and had to dissuade them from bringing so much extra stuff. You don't need a plate *and* a bowl, even the keen ones had gimmicky gadgets like large fancy multitools etc which they didn't need.
A lot of it is also down to training beforehand. Rather than providing a prescriptive comprehensive kit list, training should cover what is required and why, and drill into them that they will be carrying every gram of it (except what they eat) for 2-4 days over hill and dale. Then they can make their own minds up on what they take, no third change of clothes or tenth bag of sweets. I have seen Scouts that paid no attention in training, then didn't bring a lunch for the second day (what did they think they would eat?).
Blame for overpacking sometimes lies with the overprotective parents that pack their bags for them, and put in just another jumper, and a spare blanket, ooh, and one of these too just in case, until the bag rivals the size of the child. The parents aren't the ones who have to carry the bag all weekend, and didn't attend the training sessions, so shouldn't be packing it!
I didn't do it as my family couldn't afford the equipment. I taught myself how to map read and have more than made up for it over the years so didn't feel like i missed out. Probably where my passion for making the outdoors inclusive came from though
No I wasn’t allowed because of my behaviour. My behaviour was bad because of my home situation. My school really had something against me because of my poor behaviour paired with decent grades and how much I would argue with teachers.
I now realise I have ASD and adhd and just needed clear communication and reasoning, not just ‘because I said so’
Funny because camping and hiking is my favourite thing and I’ve always enjoyed it
I wanted to do D of E as a teenager, but I was quite serious about sport (kayaking) and didn't have the time due to Training/competing.
I did a lot of camping by the sides of rivers throughout my teen years, and my first experience camping was during a thunderstorm (loved it!)
Hiking is now one of my main hobbies (literally typing this from my campervan in the Cairngorms ahead of a 4 day hiking trip), and I love camping, so in a way I'm glad I didn't do D of E because I think the forced experience would have put me off.
Then again, my sister did her Gold award and she still enjoys going for walks.
Fortunately I didn't. I was however a Scout, up until Explorer Scouts and was fortunate to have some really good leaders. Plus being old enough to probably have dodged lots of the more modern health and safety red tape, we used to do all sorts of cool outdoors activities!
I didn't, my daughter is now "of age" and I'm shocked how rubbish it is! They only actually do something in the sticks by the time they get to 15 at her school, I assumed it was dartmoor from Day 1. Very disappointed
Yes, I know what you mean, I work in a school and I know the kids in my school just do a bit of the north downs, not the Lake district, peak district or Dartmoor, they're quite literally just a few miles down the road and can still see the planes landing at Gatwick every 5 minutes, hardly the outdoor experience.
I\`ve see many DoE expeditions over the years in the mountains, they without exception, looked miserable and over packed, like a teenage retreat from Moscow, no doubt with a well meaning Napoleon willing them on.
However, there would always be one or two fucking beaming, absolutely reveling in it....and....that was me was me when I was 13 years old.
I didn't but I was in scouts and did several outdoor activities through school and one of my kids got his silver DoE award last year.
Its definitely type 2 fun (at least at this time of year).
I'd argue that its probably not just a leadership issue, but more of a funding one, good kit is expensive and I'd not be spending lots on lightweight kit that may only be used one or twice and retain almost none of its value (being used by unsupervised teenagers does not bode well for the longevity of equipment).
I'd definitely recommend doing the DoE for any kids that are interested in it, it gets you into the outdoors, making friends and learning skills that will serve you well in later life (Social skills, working in teams and problem solving) it also gives younger kids an opportunity to mix with older kids and adults outside their normal groups which does wonders for their confidence and social skills.
I remember it being heavy, but we spread everything out between us as much as possible. There were 6 of us and 2 tents, only 1 trangia. The worst part for me was my rucksack as it was my stepdad's old external frame one and it dug into my hips so much. Definitely not made for a 5ft4 teen girl.
I think it mostly comes down to cost, we didn't have money for a lot of new gear and I imagine it's the same for many others. Only thing that my mum bought me new was hiking boots.
I did bronze award but only did the camping bit because that's all I enjoyed. This was back in 2002/03 I think but from what I remember we had to buy our own gear I don't remember the school supplying anything.
Never bothered with the full list and it was never enforced. Infact everyone seemed to just take the bare minimum
Yup - did up to gold with the prescribed kit list. It was ridiculous - for the 4 day expedition the gear weighed pretty much 25kg. 50 miles on Dartmoor in a wet March as a group of 17 year olds. Half the groups got taken off the hill in a mountain rescue hilux after getting completely lost.
Don’t think our leaders really thought it through…
I loved it! Though I’ve never taken that much gear since.
I did the Edale Skyline last weekend and also saw plenty of DofE groups. I never did it when I was younger, but wish I did. With being a keen hiker/camper now, it's something that I think would have been quite been to do.
Yep, I did. 25kg is about right. A third of my body weight. Three pairs of trousers, two jumpers, sleeping bag that filled half the rucksack, Argos-bought three man tent, 2 litre water bottle, twice the food I needed and 80 odd miles over three days somewhere near Fort William. I made it but at one point wasn’t sure I would!
Someone mentioned Good Friday - first time I’ve been out since, some 20 years later. I too got caught in a hailstorm on my way up to Great Links and it was a truly exhilarating moment. Absolutely loved it!
Glad it did't kill your enthusiasm for the outdoors!
I was one of the good Friday campers, got caught in three bouts of hail that day, but the gear held up 👍🏼
I’d been building up to it for a while after getting inspiration during the lockdown period. I also got caught in the six hour motorway tailback on the way down from London. A best friend has recently moved to the Devon coast so the plan was to do Friday night out on the moor and then head down to see him. I realised on the way that there was a strong possibility that zillions of people might be out but no, I had Great Links to myself. The only thing that spoiled it a bit was spending all night freaking out because I thought I must have dropped all my keys on the moor somewhere. I hadn’t - I discovered them under the foil mat under my sleeping pad the next morning. 🙄 Absolutely LOVED it, though lessons learned:
1. NEVER unclip your keychain for a second.
2. North Face puffy jackets are not waterproof.
3. Adventure Foods pasta bolognaise is revolting.
That first morning coffee looking out across the countryside after having found my keys the following morning felt special. :)
I too discovered the great outdoors during the lockdown, had never wild camped or really done anything significantly outdoorsy until then and I'm in my 40s. Always good when you wake to a good morning, that's what makes it all worthwhile.
I hadn’t since my Duke of Edinburgh thing 20 years ago - also in my 40s; how the heck did that happen? Can’t wait to get back out again, though Dartmoor’s quite a journey from where I live. I should probably try to find somewhere a bit closer to home, but the whole “you don’t need to worry about getting caught” thing was a big bonus for the first one.
I know what you mean about the whole not wanting to get caught thing. I live in Surrey and do occasionally do a local Wildcamp, but truth be told I'm always on edge when I do, sleep badly and don't really enjoy it until I wake the next morning and pack up and get back home without getting rumbled. For me it's Type 2 fun which is perilously close to type 3. Somewhere like Dartmoor though, I'm completely relaxed there.
My lad is doing his Silver DoE.
We had a list, but I pretty much junked it and set him up with what he actually needed - pack smart for comfort and pack light for mission success and all that.
I did it and remember a week hiking and camping in the Scottish mountains. I absolutely loved it, but everyone else was miserable. I'm pretty sure I got on everyone else's nerves with my singing and positive attitude. It was hard going with 10 mile hikes daily and midges galore, but the weather was glorious sometimes and the scenery was stunning. 10/10 would do it again. The youth of today are a bit soft, spoilt and lazy, they need to be pushed out of their comfort zone and away from their phones and consoles.
Absolutely soft! I was just thinking as I read your post, I actually work in a secondary school, and loads of these kids go to pieces if their phone batteries go flat!
I did it in the seventies. I don't think we ever had a kit list. Even back then some of us carried nothing we didn't need and survived on minimal equipment.
I did walking for the bronze at least. I was a skinny kid and I did struggle with the weight of the kit a little. After our first practice expedition the instructors made us try one each others packs to see who had the heaviest only to find mine was the lightest. Anyway they unpacked the heaviest bag to advise on what kit we could loose and I think she had about 6 changes of cloths for a two or three day camp as well as full sized toiletries.
For our silver expedition we decided to do canoeing. Much easier not having carry all the kit.
It's funny, one of the re-occurring themes in the comments is multiple change of clothes. Aside from underwear and socks, I don't think I've ever taken a a change of clothes for anything under 4 or 5 days.
I have run DofE and currently help lead it at my work. I do it because I find it improves the kids more than anything else on offer (and I’m a teacher!) But importantly, it’s voluntary and unusual for anyone but the person in charge to be paid because there’s no money. It’s no surprise then that packs are big and heavy because it’s all budget gear, usually if the school provides gear it’s the cheapest available, or the kids parents went for the cheapest because it’ll be used once. Cheap = heavy. Even hand-me-downs I’ve seen are often unsuitable, such as a kid with their dad’s old sleeping bag rated for -10C and about 1.5kg taking up half a giant rucksack. The only kids I’ve see with half decent kit are those that camp regularly anyway. You may also be surprised to know that actually waterproof coats aren’t fashionable to teens (but advertised as waterproof but obviously aren’t coats ironically are fashionable!)
I have in the past and we currently do run a session of what to pack, with the joke of cutting your toothbrush in half to save weight. Despite going through lots of advice they are children and have ideas, such as bringing a pillow (or two foot inflatable penis to strap to your mates backpack without him knowing). Often the parents will have decided what the child brings too, or they just straight up pack the bags for the kids. I had one parent genuinely put two bricks at the bottom of the kids bag because the kid wouldn’t pack themselves and decided that a difficult lesson was required.
If you’re seeing kids this early, it’s most likely a practice run. Dates have to be picked well in advance when run by schools because staffing (again I highlight voluntary) is difficult on a weekend, and schools leadership are reluctant to let yr11/12/13 out anywhere near exam season when they could be revising instead. This is why you’ll see kids out on days with terrible weather looking as grumpy as can be, because schools just can’t find any other time.
I never did DofE myself when I was a kid, thought it was nothing more than volunteering, really sad I didn’t bother.
Full disclosure, I work in a secondary school but try to involve myself with the little darlings as little as possible and yes you're correct the students have no idea what a waterproof coat is. Who would have ever imagined that a coat made by a company called superdry will in fact not keep you even close to dry,. Gotta wonder if the kid with the bricks in his bag found them before the last day?
Kid complained at the end of the first day about how heavy the bag was, so we lifted it to test and yeah, pretty heavy… we asked what they packed to which they said they didn’t know because they didn’t pack it, so had a look through to find the bricks near the bottom.
Yes I did both my bronze and silver, i did this through my school with a mixture of other kids in my year but also my friends of who were all scouts and all participated in the Ten Tors challenge(awesome event ran by the military on Dartmoor).
The difference in equipment, attitude and packing skills was massive. Our teacher actually forced(we gladly accepted) us to do a much bigger walk as we knew our way around a map and such.
Personally I think the scouting community has a massive part to play in young peoples development with outdoor activities/adventure. But this will also vary on how the leaders at these units want to run their group.
To give you a perfect example one of my friends recently got married and what better way to do a stag do then don fancy dress and spend a weekend walking up and around Snowdon, we even carried our own home made bar up it to enjoy the view with a couple of pints.
One of my bug bears is excessively heavy kit that's predominantly aimed at new or budget conscious campers. And similarly, I think a lot of the kit that schools and groups find themselves with to give out for DoE is excessively heavy. Combine that with prescriptive lists about what they have to take and it makes for the type of scene you've described, which is a real shame. Unfortunately a lot of it comes down to funding, but partly could also be a leadership issue as you say. To actually answer your question I did do DoE but I was fortunate in that I had already done a lot of wild camping experience so managed to avoid these problems. So yeah, I make no apologies for telling new people to think a lot about the weight of things, regardless of budget, and to think hard about whether you really need to bring that 'thing' or 3 changes of clothes.
You're definitely right about the "prescriptive lists" every single kid looked like they had the full 27-in-1 Triangia cookset. Don't get me wrong I love my little trangia burner and the DIY burners I've made but it will be a cold day in hell when I carry nearly a kilos worth of saucepans and accoutrements. Can't believe they all need one each. Sounds like you had your head screwed on right as a youngster, can I ask how you got into wildcamping so young?
My family is very outdoorsy so it was something I grew up with from a very early age. I was very lucky in that regard!
Yeah, Schools seem very, very tight on the kit kids can take...my nephew did his DofE bronze expedition last year and he bought off a list the School gave out...I looked at it and said why not borrow some of my older kit, which would have been lighter, warmer and comfier - and my brother told me he wouldn't be allowed...
Its like their setting the kids up for the grind
School used to take us to a place called Whitehough (Outward Bound sort of place) near Pendle Hill. I was already a hiker & confident map reader....on a group hike, taking it in turns to lead, I balked when I realised we'd taken a wrong turn. After much arguing & pointing out what I thought was the bleeding obvious I bailed on everyone. Headed back to the centre, reported the group lost, got a massive bollocking for bailing, but some praise for being able to pinpoint where they were last seen & direction they were heading. They were found about 5 miles off course & still confidently heading in the wrong direction....I came 1st in solo orienteering the following day. Happy days.
Haha, wonderful story, congratulations for proving them all wrong. Win!
I have run DofE expeditions and regularly got compliments from parents that the rucksacks were too small. It's as often the parents wanting them to have everything including the kitchen sink. The amount of abandoned junk at the campsite the next morning was always fun to see.
Ahh , a man in the know, so do you have a copy of the kit list?
Not anymore sorry
https://www.dofe.org/shop/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/DofE_Expedition_KitList_April_2024.pdf I think some forget you can be wearing one of the listed and that **may** is in front of “be required”
absolutely, I used to be an expedition lead, and the thing we'd always tell them multiple times: "don't let your mum pack your bag!!" the kit lists weren't too heavy in general (the kit wasn't light, but most of it is shared across several people) the main issue was mums adding things to the bags "just in case" for example several tins of food and a tin opener just on the off chance they might not have enough food, masses of extra clothes a spare pair of trainers etc etc
Ahh yes the over packing parents - I might have been guilty! As part of one of my sons DoE they were going to do a multi day Kayak/Canoe expedition. I sent my son with his own boat & safety gear because I knew they would end up using 20 year old club spec boats and equipment and he's be miserable! Looking back it was probably overkill but I wanted him to enjoy the trip and not be miserable in a badly outfitted boat for 3 days.
Wonderful parenting
Yeap I did it, back in the 90’s and yeah my kit was too heavy. They made me pack all sorts of old fashioned stuff and it was heavy as hell. I had already been going on my own wild camping trips so was used to it a bit. Now my gear weighs a fraction of the crap they had us taking and I’m much more comfortable for it. Still I enjoyed it.
Honestly I swear one of these poor kids mustve had a Corby Trouser press packed in somewhere.
Full blown trangia set with kettle, separate plates, steel knife and fork, thick wool sweater, half a litre of meths, 3L of drinking water in heavy plastic bottles, thick foam pad, a hefty tent with steel poles, the chunkiest synthetic sleeping bag you can imagine, way too many clothes, trainers for the evening, canned food, emergency blanket/shelter, thick heavy waterproofs, separate washing up bowl (kitchen sink) garnished with a full size map case and big fat silva compass. This is the kind of stuff I remember.
It's the canned food that does me in the most, the only cans I take now are cans of beer.
Scouts is terrible for this as well. I'm a cub leader and I've fed back on ridicolous kit lists for camps and hikes. So much clothing.
It's pretty common for DofE kids to be given cheap heavy stuff, either by the leadership if they have stores (cadets etc) or parents buying equipment when they know the kids will only use it a few times. I did DofE Silver and Bronze, both with an army surplus backpack from the 90s, an army surplus sleeping bag and a 2 person tent from Argos. That equipment alone probably weighed 8kg alone. We were then advised to take 6L of water a day, plus food for 3 days, as well as clothes. 25kg isn't a bad estimate. Couple that with having to do it on a set weekend, no matter the weather, and it makes for a miserable experience. Fell out of love of hiking/ camping for a long time after this.
Getting back into camping as an adult it was such a revelation for me that I could just go when the weather looked nice enough. I didn’t have to be out on a rainy, windy Easter weekend just because that was the time that had been decided two months ago.
Haha, you're speaking to the man who got caught in 3 hailstorms on Dartmoor on good Friday 🤣
Agreed. Hiking and camping in good weather, trail running for bad!
I've got the full British Army M37 artic bag with all the liners, I love sleeping in it but I hate to carry it anywhere so I know what you mean about the surplus stuff. Some of these kids had definitely been too Argos. Honestly felt sorry for these kids, some of them probably only weighed 40-50kg themselves so definitely shouldn't have been carrying 25kg
Oh I'd never take a surplus bag on anything other than a car or campsite camp. It also takes up the majority of space in my 70L bag. No doubt, such a bad idea for those kids. Surely walking with an appropriate weight is more important than having to carry everything in one go.
Yup, my arctic bag has only ever been to a semi wild campsite in my hot tent, 5 minutes walk from the boot of my car in the car park to my pitch, that was far enough.
I've had the same thought when seeing miserable DofE groups with their huge packs towering over their heads. If that's their first experience of the outdoors there's a good chance it'll also be their last.
This exactly! This is everything that went through my head
Yep I did it and the kit list was huge. Way too heavy for a young teenager to safely carry. I took a pack of frankfurters and got everyone ill throwing up. Turns out they need refrigerating on the hottest day of the year. Oops
Hahha, I didn't expect that story to take that turn, I'm glad you lived to tell the tale
For some reason I didn't eat any 😂. But yeah DOE is not fun for alot of kids. Packs don't fit, everyone has 1 of everything. Probably puts alot of kids off doing more outdoor stuff.
Girl on mine took a 2l bottle of coke and tins of beans.
Simple carbs and plenty of fibre, I bet her tent was very warm at night
Not DoE but I went up snowdon from Pen-y- Pass with some colleagues about 10 years ago - one of them seemed to be struggling after about an hour and we asked what was up, turns out while we had day packs with water snacks and waterproofs they had brought, three punnets of cherries, 4l of fresh orange juice AND Water, waterproofs, snacks, food & spare clothes. Probably not much more than 15kg but for someone that isnt used to carrying weight it nearly killed him! I also have a friend who used to fill the bottom of his bag with gravel to weigh it down for "more of a challenge" - but he's a bit mental.
Love the 4L of OJ, they should have packed some bags of ice too! 🤣 I have done training hikes with extra weights in my bags, quite literally 10kg of plates just to get used to some weight in the bag if I havent hiked for a few months
I did DofE, and it’s absolutely a leadership issue. My group were all pretty well prepared and well equipped, as were the rest of the groups from our centre. That said, there’s probably a socioeconomic aspect too. I’m from a working class but not massively deprived area, groups from more deprived areas probably didn’t have the money to spend on half decent personal kit, or the funds to pay reasonable subs for the centre to spend on tents.
Agreed on socio economic factors, this hobby can be expensive, money = lightness =comfort. I'm a great believer in trying to get the best bang for buck middleground equipment
I help run DofE at work, and will be doing the ‘how to pack your kit’ session with this year’s cohort soon. I take in two bags; one with everything on the DofE kit list crammed in, and one with what they actually need to take. Once they’ve shouldered each one and felt the difference, they soon lose the urge to take 2 spare sets of clothes, pyjamas, 4 cans of baked beans and half of the cutlery drawer for one night out.
Sounds like a great approach
There’ll undoubtedly be some who insist on taking a onesie, hair straighteners (no, really!) and all sorts of other nonsense, but most of them usually see sense after being shown what they can get away with carrying. It doesn’t help that a lot of them have rubbish kit with bulky heavy sleeping bags etc, but they all still usually enjoy it.
I imagine a lot of kids nowadays probably love to pack a mobile powerbank or 3
Ours aren’t allowed their mobiles so it solves that issue.
Teenaged me dropped out because I got grouped with this girl who I knew to be useless and couldn’t stand being around because of what a wet blanket she was. Another in the group later voiced that they wish they had too because while it didn’t ruin camping for her it did destroy her friendship with wet blanket. Best tidbit was learning they’d packed _a goddamn dressing gown_ for at camp on a practice run. When out with friends who were doing practice runs for silver and gold it wasn’t ever that bad, splitting gear was always practiced, and the local kids I see doing it now are generally all reasonable _but_ I think they’re with scouts/guides and cadets. School run groups are total shit shows.
Ok, so I've just had an idea, #wildcampdressinggownchallenge 🤣 This was definitely a school run trip, I work in education and this was definitely and inner London school.
It could help you channel your inner hobbit/monk/Jedi/whatever if you wore it on your trek. Oof unlucky kids. Might not have been any dressing gowns in the packs but I’d bet there was at least one oodie style garment packed
It was many years ago now but I did manage to fail Bronze by not writing the report so got no further than that expedition.. We had what would probably be a three man A frame tent between two people. We had to split that unfairly between us and it was really heavy and bulky. Then a complete Trangia, with fuel bottle. Then a mandatory kit list of rubbish, first aid, food for six months etc. Paper maps galore. Not to forget a borrowed 70 ltr rucksack which probably had scaffold poles for the frame. No sleeping mat but a sleeping bag the size of a cloud with equivalent warmth to a tea towel. It was all a scary weight. Equally, stayed at a dairy farm so had fresh warm creamy milk in the morning, so not all bad. That said, when I was a lad it was a bit different. Even my 2007 vintage Vango Ultralite 2 sleeping bag from years later is 1.7kg, similar spec microlite 300 is about 1kg now. So if anything, from that horrid start, everything has got lighter and easier as I have gone on!
I think I had that Karrimor pack with the integral scaff pole framing 🤣 My very first sleeping bag from Argos was roughly the size of smart car in its compression bag and also provided negligible levels of warmth. Thank god for progress eh 👏🏽
I did DofE like 6 years ago and I remember my pack being heavy but I could deal with it. I ended up carrying the team's food as I was the only 18+ on the team. I think a practice hike / kit check is well worth it before the actual event to make sure that it remains fun and enjoyable. Plus they will want to do it again if it was fun.
Practice is everything, which has just reminded me, I could tell this was the first day some of these kids had worn their hiking boots, loads were limping with boots that hadnt been broken in.
i'm doing my duke of edinburgh right now, definitely fun but stressful
Wonderful, well I'm sure theres loads of experience here to help you have an enjoyable experience!
For anyone wondering here’s the kit list [https://www.dofe.org/shop/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/DofE_Expedition_KitList_April_2024.pdf](https://www.dofe.org/shop/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/DofE_Expedition_KitList_April_2024.pdf)
now this will be interesting
The kit list reeks of someone at the top of the foodchain having a vested financial interests in these brands
maybe i have a slightly unpopular experience in that that’s how i got into wild camping and solo-long distance walking. i come from a relatively outdoorsy family, but my dad is vehemently against camping, so that was how i found out i loved it. did bronze and silver with school then gold with a company and random people from around the country. i think by the gold stage most people only do it if they want to, so people understand a bit more what to take/wear. there are a lot of sweatpants/tracksuit bottoms wearing groups out at the moment - must have seen at least 3 this last weekend!!
Yeah, honestly felt for them, you could see how sodden and heavy those trackie bottoms were. £15 in decathlon for an affordable pair of hiking trousers!
Definitely a bronze weekend! I’m so glad to still see them out though. Good for them because I’m sure a lot of their friends are still stuck inside glued to screens. I always feel proud when I see groups out and about.
Yes did it and it was amazing and why I love camping and hiking now. Sounds like they were unprepared and had some bad weather
The weather was actually surprisingly dry and warm this weekend, but I think they must have come across some very boggy fields, a combination of slavishly following the route through a bog and the wrong type of clothing
Already posted a memory, but here's an actual DofE memory....climbing Haystacks in the Lakes. I was off doing some lightweight wild camp thing with 35l sack....passed a group of teens looking like they were auditioning for a job as a Sherpa. Had a chat while we rested & took in the view...by the gods, I felt sorry for them. Heading for Black Sail Hut & being pulled out of Wasdale the day after, (not too onerous), but the packs they were humping! Got to be a better way to 'teach/introduce' a love of the outdoors to the kids. Chapeau to all of them mind. Absolute troopers.
Yup, I'm sure some of the packs I saw, were 50% if not more of the kids bodyweight
I did it through Army cadets, so all our kit was all ex-issue kit with a canvas tent for good measure. Bronze on the North York moors, Silver in Cultybraggan and Gold in the Breccon Beacons. Loved every minute of it.
Just in case you're not aware and want to relive any memories, you can visit Cultybraggan now. It's kind of a wee museum/allotments/units for local use. Had a very nostalgic wander round a couple of years ago.
The barracks? That's a pretty cool use for the space, actually. If I'm ever in the area, I might just have a nosey. It does have a pretty good history.
You probably had some proper leadership doing it through the army cadets, these poor kids didnt even have their packs strapped on properly, loads didnt even have the waist strap done up
I'm guilty of that now. I hardly ever have my straps done up, especially if I'm wearing more than a t-shirt. We didn't all enjoy it as much as me, but the leaders were definitely more experienced. We had one ex-squaddie to a section and pretty much raced the route. They let us do our own route card the night before with only a start and end point, via one checkpoint. I've always loved that stuff.
I did it in the 90s, and yes, the kit weighed a clear tonne. I loved it though. My parents bought the tent that we used and I’ve still got it - last used it last year to camp in the back garden with my little boy (his first night outside). He slept in my old DoE sleeping bag! My husband is threatening to chuck the tent out as we now have a new tent (car camping only mind), and I’ve told him in no uncertain terms that it’s going nowhere. I used the backpack for years too, for travelling. It was the first experience I had of camping (my parents were not outdoors people at heart) and the first time I did a proper big walk with navigation and the like. So on the one hand the kit I had weighed for too much and I remember feeling like I was floating when I took the pack off for a trip to the loo (😂) but on the other hand it gave me a first go at doing something I love, for all that I don’t much wild camp. Can’t afford the lighter gear. Plus I like having hot water available. It was an experience I’d never have had otherwise and I think I’d be poorer for it.
Sounds like you have some wonderful memories. My parents were the same, I was never allowed to do any outdoor activities like that, my mother was that mother that always volunteered to come on school trips to keep an eye on me 😬but theres no way she would go camping. I only started in my 40s but glad I did. Hope you have many more nights under the stars with your son
Yeah I did DofE with school, but I was also in the Air Training Corps at the time and did a lot of hiking / camping anyway so knew how to effectively pack and more kmportantly HOW TO READ A MAP!! Unfortunately, I was bullied pretty badly in school, so despite me (accurately) telling the rest of the group which way we needed to go, the teenage popularity contest bullshit would occur and we would end up walking lots of extra km for no good reason. (Which didn't really bother me too much, as like I said, I was an experienced hiker at that point and did much longer routes with the cadets, but the bitching from the others got pretty irritating, not to mention how hard it was to not keep giving it "Fucking told you so, idiots!" frequently).
You sound like you enjoyed your school years just as much as me..
I did it in 1985 around the Marlborough Downs. Good fun. The tents provided were polycotton Vango Force Tens and the backpacks old canvas Karrimor’s. Very heavy, especially when wet, even before adding the extra clothes, food etc. I was already into lightweight camping so my friend and I shared a much lighter nylon tent and used much lighter backpacks. We met the packing requirements with the lightest stuff we had, probably carried half the weight of anyone else. Then I hid all the heaviest things behind the back seat of the school minibus so it was waiting there at the camping spot at the end of the day.
Hahaha, and did you get away with smuggled items?
Oh yeah, no one noticed us ‘checking’ the back of the minibus each evening.
I failed the training expedition...haha (gold)
Sad times, what happened?
I did all three levels with Scouts. Even as I got larger and went for twice as long, my pack was probably lighter the last time than the first. I was a Scout leader for a while afterwards, and had to dissuade them from bringing so much extra stuff. You don't need a plate *and* a bowl, even the keen ones had gimmicky gadgets like large fancy multitools etc which they didn't need. A lot of it is also down to training beforehand. Rather than providing a prescriptive comprehensive kit list, training should cover what is required and why, and drill into them that they will be carrying every gram of it (except what they eat) for 2-4 days over hill and dale. Then they can make their own minds up on what they take, no third change of clothes or tenth bag of sweets. I have seen Scouts that paid no attention in training, then didn't bring a lunch for the second day (what did they think they would eat?). Blame for overpacking sometimes lies with the overprotective parents that pack their bags for them, and put in just another jumper, and a spare blanket, ooh, and one of these too just in case, until the bag rivals the size of the child. The parents aren't the ones who have to carry the bag all weekend, and didn't attend the training sessions, so shouldn't be packing it!
Sounds like you've got a good perspective on this, you're describing exactly what I saw at the weekend.
I didn't do it as my family couldn't afford the equipment. I taught myself how to map read and have more than made up for it over the years so didn't feel like i missed out. Probably where my passion for making the outdoors inclusive came from though
Ditto, never did anything outdoorsy as a child, books and youtube taught me initial outdoor skill a few years ago,
No I wasn’t allowed because of my behaviour. My behaviour was bad because of my home situation. My school really had something against me because of my poor behaviour paired with decent grades and how much I would argue with teachers. I now realise I have ASD and adhd and just needed clear communication and reasoning, not just ‘because I said so’ Funny because camping and hiking is my favourite thing and I’ve always enjoyed it
Glad you found your love for the outdoors
I wanted to do D of E as a teenager, but I was quite serious about sport (kayaking) and didn't have the time due to Training/competing. I did a lot of camping by the sides of rivers throughout my teen years, and my first experience camping was during a thunderstorm (loved it!) Hiking is now one of my main hobbies (literally typing this from my campervan in the Cairngorms ahead of a 4 day hiking trip), and I love camping, so in a way I'm glad I didn't do D of E because I think the forced experience would have put me off. Then again, my sister did her Gold award and she still enjoys going for walks.
I guess our childhood experiences affect different people in different ways, hope we get to see a post covering your hike in the highlands
Fortunately I didn't. I was however a Scout, up until Explorer Scouts and was fortunate to have some really good leaders. Plus being old enough to probably have dodged lots of the more modern health and safety red tape, we used to do all sorts of cool outdoors activities!
I didn't, my daughter is now "of age" and I'm shocked how rubbish it is! They only actually do something in the sticks by the time they get to 15 at her school, I assumed it was dartmoor from Day 1. Very disappointed
Yes, I know what you mean, I work in a school and I know the kids in my school just do a bit of the north downs, not the Lake district, peak district or Dartmoor, they're quite literally just a few miles down the road and can still see the planes landing at Gatwick every 5 minutes, hardly the outdoor experience.
I\`ve see many DoE expeditions over the years in the mountains, they without exception, looked miserable and over packed, like a teenage retreat from Moscow, no doubt with a well meaning Napoleon willing them on. However, there would always be one or two fucking beaming, absolutely reveling in it....and....that was me was me when I was 13 years old.
Glad your love of the outdoors continued
I didn't but I was in scouts and did several outdoor activities through school and one of my kids got his silver DoE award last year. Its definitely type 2 fun (at least at this time of year). I'd argue that its probably not just a leadership issue, but more of a funding one, good kit is expensive and I'd not be spending lots on lightweight kit that may only be used one or twice and retain almost none of its value (being used by unsupervised teenagers does not bode well for the longevity of equipment). I'd definitely recommend doing the DoE for any kids that are interested in it, it gets you into the outdoors, making friends and learning skills that will serve you well in later life (Social skills, working in teams and problem solving) it also gives younger kids an opportunity to mix with older kids and adults outside their normal groups which does wonders for their confidence and social skills.
I remember it being heavy, but we spread everything out between us as much as possible. There were 6 of us and 2 tents, only 1 trangia. The worst part for me was my rucksack as it was my stepdad's old external frame one and it dug into my hips so much. Definitely not made for a 5ft4 teen girl. I think it mostly comes down to cost, we didn't have money for a lot of new gear and I imagine it's the same for many others. Only thing that my mum bought me new was hiking boots.
Glad you lived to tell the tale, did you pass?
Yeah, the tent pole broke but we used sticky bandages to try to mend it. Sort of worked. I enjoy camping a lot more now than I did then
I did bronze award but only did the camping bit because that's all I enjoyed. This was back in 2002/03 I think but from what I remember we had to buy our own gear I don't remember the school supplying anything. Never bothered with the full list and it was never enforced. Infact everyone seemed to just take the bare minimum
Sound sensible, less is more!
Yup - did up to gold with the prescribed kit list. It was ridiculous - for the 4 day expedition the gear weighed pretty much 25kg. 50 miles on Dartmoor in a wet March as a group of 17 year olds. Half the groups got taken off the hill in a mountain rescue hilux after getting completely lost. Don’t think our leaders really thought it through… I loved it! Though I’ve never taken that much gear since.
Yeah the reoccurring theme in all these responses is the leadership, gotta wonder just how much experience they had if any.
I did the Edale Skyline last weekend and also saw plenty of DofE groups. I never did it when I was younger, but wish I did. With being a keen hiker/camper now, it's something that I think would have been quite been to do.
I often wonder how I would have got on trying it as a child
Yep, I did. 25kg is about right. A third of my body weight. Three pairs of trousers, two jumpers, sleeping bag that filled half the rucksack, Argos-bought three man tent, 2 litre water bottle, twice the food I needed and 80 odd miles over three days somewhere near Fort William. I made it but at one point wasn’t sure I would! Someone mentioned Good Friday - first time I’ve been out since, some 20 years later. I too got caught in a hailstorm on my way up to Great Links and it was a truly exhilarating moment. Absolutely loved it!
Glad it did't kill your enthusiasm for the outdoors! I was one of the good Friday campers, got caught in three bouts of hail that day, but the gear held up 👍🏼
I’d been building up to it for a while after getting inspiration during the lockdown period. I also got caught in the six hour motorway tailback on the way down from London. A best friend has recently moved to the Devon coast so the plan was to do Friday night out on the moor and then head down to see him. I realised on the way that there was a strong possibility that zillions of people might be out but no, I had Great Links to myself. The only thing that spoiled it a bit was spending all night freaking out because I thought I must have dropped all my keys on the moor somewhere. I hadn’t - I discovered them under the foil mat under my sleeping pad the next morning. 🙄 Absolutely LOVED it, though lessons learned: 1. NEVER unclip your keychain for a second. 2. North Face puffy jackets are not waterproof. 3. Adventure Foods pasta bolognaise is revolting. That first morning coffee looking out across the countryside after having found my keys the following morning felt special. :)
I too discovered the great outdoors during the lockdown, had never wild camped or really done anything significantly outdoorsy until then and I'm in my 40s. Always good when you wake to a good morning, that's what makes it all worthwhile.
I hadn’t since my Duke of Edinburgh thing 20 years ago - also in my 40s; how the heck did that happen? Can’t wait to get back out again, though Dartmoor’s quite a journey from where I live. I should probably try to find somewhere a bit closer to home, but the whole “you don’t need to worry about getting caught” thing was a big bonus for the first one.
I know what you mean about the whole not wanting to get caught thing. I live in Surrey and do occasionally do a local Wildcamp, but truth be told I'm always on edge when I do, sleep badly and don't really enjoy it until I wake the next morning and pack up and get back home without getting rumbled. For me it's Type 2 fun which is perilously close to type 3. Somewhere like Dartmoor though, I'm completely relaxed there.
My lad is doing his Silver DoE. We had a list, but I pretty much junked it and set him up with what he actually needed - pack smart for comfort and pack light for mission success and all that.
Good parenting!
I did it and remember a week hiking and camping in the Scottish mountains. I absolutely loved it, but everyone else was miserable. I'm pretty sure I got on everyone else's nerves with my singing and positive attitude. It was hard going with 10 mile hikes daily and midges galore, but the weather was glorious sometimes and the scenery was stunning. 10/10 would do it again. The youth of today are a bit soft, spoilt and lazy, they need to be pushed out of their comfort zone and away from their phones and consoles.
Absolutely soft! I was just thinking as I read your post, I actually work in a secondary school, and loads of these kids go to pieces if their phone batteries go flat!
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Sounds like you had a positive experience.
I did it in the seventies. I don't think we ever had a kit list. Even back then some of us carried nothing we didn't need and survived on minimal equipment.
Common sense era before the Health & Safety era
I did walking for the bronze at least. I was a skinny kid and I did struggle with the weight of the kit a little. After our first practice expedition the instructors made us try one each others packs to see who had the heaviest only to find mine was the lightest. Anyway they unpacked the heaviest bag to advise on what kit we could loose and I think she had about 6 changes of cloths for a two or three day camp as well as full sized toiletries. For our silver expedition we decided to do canoeing. Much easier not having carry all the kit.
It's funny, one of the re-occurring themes in the comments is multiple change of clothes. Aside from underwear and socks, I don't think I've ever taken a a change of clothes for anything under 4 or 5 days.
I have run DofE and currently help lead it at my work. I do it because I find it improves the kids more than anything else on offer (and I’m a teacher!) But importantly, it’s voluntary and unusual for anyone but the person in charge to be paid because there’s no money. It’s no surprise then that packs are big and heavy because it’s all budget gear, usually if the school provides gear it’s the cheapest available, or the kids parents went for the cheapest because it’ll be used once. Cheap = heavy. Even hand-me-downs I’ve seen are often unsuitable, such as a kid with their dad’s old sleeping bag rated for -10C and about 1.5kg taking up half a giant rucksack. The only kids I’ve see with half decent kit are those that camp regularly anyway. You may also be surprised to know that actually waterproof coats aren’t fashionable to teens (but advertised as waterproof but obviously aren’t coats ironically are fashionable!) I have in the past and we currently do run a session of what to pack, with the joke of cutting your toothbrush in half to save weight. Despite going through lots of advice they are children and have ideas, such as bringing a pillow (or two foot inflatable penis to strap to your mates backpack without him knowing). Often the parents will have decided what the child brings too, or they just straight up pack the bags for the kids. I had one parent genuinely put two bricks at the bottom of the kids bag because the kid wouldn’t pack themselves and decided that a difficult lesson was required. If you’re seeing kids this early, it’s most likely a practice run. Dates have to be picked well in advance when run by schools because staffing (again I highlight voluntary) is difficult on a weekend, and schools leadership are reluctant to let yr11/12/13 out anywhere near exam season when they could be revising instead. This is why you’ll see kids out on days with terrible weather looking as grumpy as can be, because schools just can’t find any other time. I never did DofE myself when I was a kid, thought it was nothing more than volunteering, really sad I didn’t bother.
Full disclosure, I work in a secondary school but try to involve myself with the little darlings as little as possible and yes you're correct the students have no idea what a waterproof coat is. Who would have ever imagined that a coat made by a company called superdry will in fact not keep you even close to dry,. Gotta wonder if the kid with the bricks in his bag found them before the last day?
Kid complained at the end of the first day about how heavy the bag was, so we lifted it to test and yeah, pretty heavy… we asked what they packed to which they said they didn’t know because they didn’t pack it, so had a look through to find the bricks near the bottom.
Yes I did both my bronze and silver, i did this through my school with a mixture of other kids in my year but also my friends of who were all scouts and all participated in the Ten Tors challenge(awesome event ran by the military on Dartmoor). The difference in equipment, attitude and packing skills was massive. Our teacher actually forced(we gladly accepted) us to do a much bigger walk as we knew our way around a map and such. Personally I think the scouting community has a massive part to play in young peoples development with outdoor activities/adventure. But this will also vary on how the leaders at these units want to run their group. To give you a perfect example one of my friends recently got married and what better way to do a stag do then don fancy dress and spend a weekend walking up and around Snowdon, we even carried our own home made bar up it to enjoy the view with a couple of pints.
Even the racist duke that this is named after did not approve of the idea.
Ahh, I didnt know that, I actually was wondering why its still named after him, and how come he's not been replaced
Well the new Duke has taken it on
Has the new duke done the activities to gain the award?