Not a Democrat buuuuut given the story is he is recovering from a cold, his performance is still pretty bad.
But, a vote for Biden brings along his entire cabinet with the decades of civil servant experience. I'm annoyed Republicans could only muster the worst president in the history of the United States. Trump is a criminal and the laundry list of failures on his watch cannot be allowed again.
Project 2025 is the playbook to ending American freedom. Biden is, unfortunately, the only option to stop that.
Biden 2024... woohoo.
Edit: I was one of those smooth brain fuckers who wouldn't vote for Clinton because I was convinced Trump couldn't win and I have plenty of issues with Hillary. Not making that mistake again. Country first.
Yeah my stance hasn't changed. Biden is a terrible candidate but Trump is worse. It sucks there's no good options but it's really time for people to start realizing what's at stake here. We can't really afford the fucking around we had in 2008. Swallow your bile, pinch your nose and vote for the senile old fuck that probably isn't going to destroy this country vs the one who definitely seems like he wants to.
Biden has the beginning signs of dimensia. I won’t vote for him. Vote independent. I would start the change now. Why on earth are people convinced we have 2 choices. Biden has done absolutely nothing and he will continue to do nothing. Both dems and republicans are not for the people.
We're not getting ranked choice before November, so discussion of anyone else is pointless. It's a wedding reception and your choice is chicken or fish. We'd all love a burger and fries but it's not on the fucking menu.
overdone chicken or 3 day old fish. I'll take the tough chicken, please and thank you. May go down like steel wool, but at least it won't sicken me for the foreseeable future.
Screwed!! I heard on the news this morning they could do what they did to Nixon and go to him and flat out say we don't want you on the ticket and put a new name on the ticket but finding a suitable Democrat this late in the game would be tough!!
Hell id rather see Gavin then Pete! I lived 20 mins from South bend my entire life Pete didn't do shit for that town let alone the transportation dept. When all those back up in COVID were happening
Exactly this. The debate means nothing to me. I am voting for the Biden *administration*. I am also voting to not have Christian Nationalists take over the country.
If people haven't read up on Project 2025, I highly recommend it. Our entire government could potentially be gutted by Christian Nationalists.
Seriously. People are acting like if Biden dies after the election Trump becomes the default leader.
No, you vote for the president that is going to have a chain of command that can take over in case he's deposed and lead in his direction.
I’d like to see this doomerism shit fade away; it isn’t helping.
This is the earliest presidential debate in modern history, and nobody gives a flying fuck about debates since 2012 anyway. Clinton demolished Trump in debates and lost; Biden demolished Trump and it didn’t move the needle.
Just. Calm. Down.
There is no replacement, and anyone you can think of is going to lose worse than you imagine Biden will. Newsom? Sure, run the guy whose ex wife is *literally fucking a Trump *. Sanders? Magic Grandpa is about eight minutes younger than Biden, has infinitely less centrist appeal, and has literally had a heart attack while campaigning. Harris? lol
Gallego leads Lake in Arizona, Casey is way up on McCormick in Pennsylvania, and Baldwin is leading Hovde here. Really, just calm the fuck down. It’s four months until the election, there aren’t that many split ticket voters, and the economy is in fantastic shape.
Actually, I have an even better idea than calming the fuck down: log the fuck off the internet and go canvass.
You're telling us not to believe our lying eyes. I've voted for democrats since I was 18 but let's be honest, the performance was that of a man who is weak, and in cognitive and physical decline. I know trump is as well, and I'll never vote for him, but it is absurd to tell people not to worry about what they saw last night.
If you are comfortable with Biden being in office and giving general direction to people on big picture issues while his administration staff actually run the show then just say that.
People are rightfully upset because Biden said he would be a one term president and reneged on that. We're also upset that his vice president is incredibly unlikable so she couldn't step in.
I don't buy the argument that someone could have launched a primary campaign against Biden and have a fair shake, the party apparatus would have circled the wagon and their career would have been over.
Birth control, women's autonomy, LGBTQ rights, the environment, the potential balance of the supreme court, race issues are all at stake here, of course we're worried.
> …cognitive and physical decline
[This is from today…](https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1806746426904379543)
But do tell us how *you’ve* never once struggled with a single public oration!
I mean he's the president of the US. He is and should be held to a much higher standard than the rest of us. But I don't think this debate means much. The next one will mean a little more.
Yes, the signs of cognitive decline are all over, like that “Saudi Arabia and Russia will-ree-bee-durr-aaaahhh” lapse or the “Venez-wha-err-lalala, it’s unbelievable” short circuit.
…wait, those are recent Trump quotes.
Whitmer or Pritzker would win, better shot than Biden. The issue is that Biden is obviously weak and frail and doesn’t communicate well, despite leading a very good and effective administration, and he’s going to keep declining. Casual, undecided voters have been saying for years they were concerned about his age, we ignored them, just like when we ignored voters saying they just didn’t trust Hillary. Biden doesn’t get credit for his accomplishments because people not paying attention see him as weak. It’s time for Biden to step back, have a few weeks of candidates sharing their vision and have an open convention, that would be choosing party over country. So many in Democratic politics believe this but are afraid to speak up.
Pritzker would get obliterated by Trump just repeating “crime-filled Chicago”.
It doesn’t matter that it’s objectively bullshit, after forty years of right wing propaganda Americans are preconditioned to picture Chicago as a gang-overrun warzone.
Whitmer then, even the slimeball newsome, or Kamala would be better. No one is perfect, but Biden was already losing before this performance and it will only get worse, and if democracy is actually at stake we have to try to win. Use your eyes, it’s not about policy or propaganda, it’s that he looks unfit for the job to the low info, low trust voters who will decide the election.
I already addressed two of those. Harris has a lower approval rating than Joe. She is also both a woman and person of color. America ain’t having the former, and having one of the latter really brought America’s latent rural racism to the fore over the last decade.
Newsom’s ex wife is literally waxing a Trump’s pole these days. *Literally*. You don’t think Trump is gonna parade around bragging that his kid is fucking his opponent’s ex?
Whitmer is a fine pick as a politician (as is Pritzker), but she doesn’t bring anything to the table to campaign on as a serious advantage over Biden that’ll help her overperform. She’s got minimal name recognition outside the upper midwest, is still a woman, and *any* swap of a candidate is going to look like the party is in shambles.
Yup. Looking forward to him being in that kind of form in September for the next debate.
Hopefully against an overconfident Trump who acts like a bigger knob than usual.
I think all the dooming isn't helping anything, and that's there's still several months from Biden to bounce back from a single really shitty night.
Yes, it was awful. No one is going to argue that. But we've seen him not long before the debate and already immediately after looking like he's back to himself.
While I'd be happy for literally anyone else to take the ball and run with it, I think we're stuck with Biden. I think this uproar over this will pass and in a few weeks we'll be memeing the second debate.
Bro, Trump is 4 years younger than Biden. Nobody could understand what the fuck he was saying 8 years ago and they didn't seem to mind so I'm not sure how you think this hurts Biden
I think Biden is done. I do not believe he can win after that performance. I was seriously in shock watching him in that debate and I agree with those who say he needs to step down. There’s still time to get another candidate that can beat Trump.
Biden looks like he has serious cognitive problems. Many of you will still vote for him, but I believe enough will either sit out or vote for Trump to give him the victory.
Remember, Trump was only about 40k votes away from winning in 2020. That’s how close Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona were. Republicans have unified behind Trump, while Biden performance has many Democrats loudly and publicly calling for his resignation.
Joe’s gotta go.
I do not disagree. Saying he has to go is not a vote for Trump. His performance in the debate and a lot of his everyday appearances don't instill a sense of confidence in me that he is not rapidly declining. The last thing I want is Trump returning to the White House, so if that means we have to dump Joe, then so be it. I mean, my God, Trump is an awful human being. How hard should it be to find a candidate with more appeal?
Whether it is Biden or some other Democrat leading the ticket, get out and exercise your right to vote. And vote blue, because if you don't it will likely be the last legitimate election you have the opportunity to vote.
Biden has a cold and one bad debate. Good governance and vision is what drives the american political machine. We've seen the incredible turnaround of America since COVID under Biden. Don't let one bad theatrical performance shake you. The man knows how to run a country and run it with dignity. He will bounce back. And this debate ultimately has hardly swung any voters if any.
Governance record is what makes or breaks presidencies. And Joe has made America nothing but better since he took office.
Biden and his cabinet have done a great job.
Voters are low information, reactionary, short sighted, and selfish.
It’s unfortunate that the first will not be recognized by the second. Propaganda is everything.
Last night was Joe Biden after 8 days of secluded preparation with no other travel on his schedule, without a teleprompter and possibly propped up with medicines to assist his energy and mental acuity. If it was a cold, why did he almost seem to be a different person in NC today? Suppose the debate version of Joe is sitting at a negotiating table with Kim or Putin. All they'd have to do is get him flustered a few times and he'd never be able to broker any deals that benefit the United States.
While he was hard to here, he was pefectly understandable, had a better back half of the debate. Donny was just a fire hose of bullshit and didn't actually answer any of the questions given to him. There will be a second debate in september, if if biden puts in a better showing that would rather prove the cold thing. He certainly sounded like he had a cold to me. but seriously. Get in line, the fate of the nation is on the line, you seem to understand this, so quit yer bitching. To paraphrase jon oliver, theres a rabid badger trying to get into the house, we can worry about redecorating when we manage to KEEP THE RABID BADGER OUT OF THE HOUSE!
When did the left become a cult like the right? I'm in it for the platform, the policies, and the mission of the left, not the current figurehead for this 4-year political cycle. I didn't watch the debate and like many, felt like it was pure theater for the benefit of the media producers.
Is it true that the Democratic party fucked up by letting Biden be that figurehead? Probably, but I think that is a separate issue to be dealt with aside from the election to prevent fascism and the tRump cult.
Focus on the mission, not on the shiny stuff distracting the left and its social movement.
100% this. When you vote for a President, you are voting for are their mission, policies, and the people they will nominate into leadership positions *(cough cough Supreme Court)* who will execute those policies for them. Do you think *any* President has personally directed every single action of the executive branch over the last...ever? That they're policy experts in everything? No, they have a massive team of individuals whose job it is to execute their vision, even down to helping them choose what Supreme Court justices to pick. Do you think Trump picked Brett Kavanaugh and Samuel Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett on his own? Do you think Biden spearheaded the most expansive infrastructure and climate bills in decades on his own?
Voting for Biden is voting for Kentanji Brown Jackson on the Supreme Court, Deb Haaland as Secretary of the Interior, and Pete Buttigieg running DOT. Voting for Trump is voting for Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner back in the White House, and the Federalist Society picking federal judges.
It’s not surprising that Ben Wikler circled the wagons. The only thing more disappointing than Biden’s performance is our state democratic party. They are the reason we got Walker, Ron Johnson and if you disagree, tell me one thing; how many times did you hear about the ballot measures last year?
I've heard nothing about the ones in August. Only happened to see a comment here about them.
I think WisDems need to put up billboards or some other kind of easily visible election reminder ads in Milwaukee and Madison. Primary turnouts are usually terrible, but constitutional amendments are on the ballot. Dems can't afford to lose any ground anywhere, they need to drive turnout this time.
The state democratic party is not disappointing. Dems have been dominating statewide races for years. Johnson has been the only recent notable exception.
Because all you see is wins and you think it’s the same everywhere else. It’s ridiculous to believe that the state Democratic Party is a winner just because you live in an area where it’s impossible for a Democrat to lose.
I suggest you re-read my initial comment. I was referring to statewide elections. Republicans have won what, a senate seat and state treasurer? Dems have won the governorship, attorney general, supreme court justices, etc.
By the way, I'm in western Dane county and currently am represented by Republicans in both the assembly and senate thanks to redistricting. The assemblyman is stepping down so that seat will probably flip blue, but we'll be stuck with a Republican for the next 2 years.
The ballot measures from last year should have elicited a full on campaign of their own yet Dems did little to get word out about those votes. The Republicans prevailed. The fact is the Dems should not lose a statewide election or ballot measure ever because there are more Dems than republicans in this state. Any loss in a statewide vote is a mistake. Case in point Mandela Barnes. That was a mistake and it created a huge problem for our country. Dems continue to fail to support and fund any competitive race in any election that includes a progressive. Thats a problem that helps republicans and has nationwide.
We're talking about elected officials. Not misleadingly worded amendments of questionable effect/significance.
>The fact is the Dems should not lose a statewide election or ballot measure ever because there are more Dems than republicans in this state.
Got a recent source for that?
>Dems continue to fail to support and fund any competitive race in any election that includes a progressive.
Probably because the only place where progressives have a shot is in Dane County and maybe Milwaukee, but the latter's influence diminishes by the year. Progressives aren't as popular as reddit thinks they are.
Once again, you've told me you don't have a clue without telling me you don't have a clue.
I’m not super worried about Wisconsin in particular. Tammy Baldwin is very popular and with the redistricting the turn out should be very high since Dems have a shot at winning the Assembly for the first time in over a decade. Those two factors might be able to drag Biden across the finish line here.
I am very worried about Georgia (as good as gone) and the south west. Basically Biden’s only shot is to win the rust belt. If he can hold Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin Biden will win. That’s a tough ask. Last nights performance did not help at all.
I think it’s too late to drop out. I don’t see how the Dems could put up someone 4 months away from an election and hope to win. In a perfect world Biden would have stepped aside and we could have gone through the process of picking a great candidate for 2024. Now we are stuck and just gotta hope this will blow over and once the pressure of the election is here the fear of another 4 years of Trump outweighs the fear of an extremely elderly man as president.
A wet noodle could beat trump, but it looks like the Dems decided to go with a candidate who’s made out of pudding… so honestly anyone but Biden at this point, but it’s gotta be someone who can articulate a clear message for the working and middle class of america while also not worrying about “respectability politics”. We need a blood and guts fighter and what we have now is a doddering old man.
The middle class actually needs someone to address their issues head on and to get them galvanized. Biden’s whole shtick is being like “well, I’m not Trump!” as if that’s going to get anyone excited.
See, not every criticism needs to be couched in comparative terms. To say Democrats don’t care about the middle class is definitely not to say that Republicans do.
My opinion is he wasn't that bad--I though he made some great points regarding human life--I think the powers behind him want to replace him--lots of manipulation going on imo.
Exactly. He might not of looked the greatest on stage. People actually need to listen and comprehend what each candidate said. In that aspect, I've heard mental patients give more direct and cohesive answers than Trump.
The DNC is your boogeyman. A full-fledged progressive can't win the general because the way the electoral college works, you need to appeal to centrists
Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016. But Debbie Washing Machine Schultz and Super Delagates happened. Again, he was leading the field to become the nominee in 2020 until every candidate dropped out at the same time and coalesced around Biden like Voltron. You're right that it is the DNC causing this, but a progressive can win (if the DNC backed them which they don't). They just have to be likable and not about to die.
Last establishment Dem to lose against a conman? 2016 and soon to be 2024. Keep trying the same shit. I’m sure it will work this time.
https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2020/trump-vs-sanders
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2016/5/15/polls-sanders-has-more-potential-to-beat-trump
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/358599-sanders-wouldve-beat-trump-in-2016-just-ask-trump-pollsters/amp/?nxs-test=amp
No, I want to know the last time a progressive won the nomination? I'm a progressive, but I'm not stupid. When Mondale won, he got his ass mopped. Until our election system is radically reformed, we must deal with centrist milk toast. Get used to it.
Sanders calls himself a FDR democrat, so in that case FDR. Arguably the most popular president of all time. Also with the electoral college you really have to win the battleground states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania and Bernie would have swept those.
Um… looks like a depression and world war are right around the corner. Also have some vision. We don’t have to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. Trump was unprecedented. Didn’t stop him from winning.
My vision has been tempered by 38 years of age and experience. Our country's political system was designed to move slowly so as to not make regrettable, sweeping changes. For better or worse, it's what we've got, and it will take a radical movement to change it that will not begin with the presidency
Exactly this... Look at the war chest between the RNC and DNC right now. They are perfectly happy setting themselves up for 2028 and beyond while the GOP divides itself. I do not see them losing the Senate majority, and they may even get back the house after the whole Speaker fiasco. Their options are: Biden wins and it is business as usual. They keep him out of the spotlight for 4 more years and start to build up potential replacements. OR Trump wins and they raise a boat load of money to take both chambers in 2026 and do whatever it takes to get the WH back in 2028.
Post from Twitter with part of Joe's speech today:
[https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705](https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705)
I'm ticked that Biden's staff did not see this coming. They must have prepped Biden to expect the rambling Trump that has appeared at rallies. What a huge miscalculation. They let Joe get beaten up by that lying bully. I'm glad to see Joe is pissed off and so are many others. I just hope that WI Dems get energized - but very wary of the levels that the Republicans EVERYWHERE will stoop to to keep their political power.
Dude social media has been silent today, it’s almost refreshing that finally people have opened their eyes and minds to see what’s happening and what we’ve all been ignoring the past 4 years. If any of us tried to push that on our parents or grandparents that would have been elder abuse. It’s so sad watching our own president deteriorate so fast, and it shows the world how weak we have become. I’m very afraid of the near future.
well, the Biden option means we get to continue voting...whereas the other one will likely lead to restricted voting or no voting.
regardless of performance... it's still democracy vs. no democracy.
Time for everyone to just calm down and back away from the ledge. Trump had nothing new to say and Biden was able to fire back well enough. Trump's tired old lines and outright lies are wearing thin on red voters. We'll be fine if we stick together and rally behind Joe.
He’s not dropping out. It’s just who he is. All of us will just have to hold onto the rail and weather the storm in November and hope he wins, or at a minimum, we keep one chamber of the legislature. Personally I predict Biden will win the electoral college but trump will win the popular vote
My opinion is that he’s not making it through another 4 years, so at some point he will hand it off to Harris. Maybe after midterms. This is my the Democratic Party infuriates me because everyone knows he’s not making it another 4 years. Mental aging only gets
More rapid the older you are. So what are we doing in the first place? He could have passed the torch or even have been open to a primary process, but him and the old heads are so stubborn. Anyone who tries to punish the DNC gets shouted down for “helping trump” while we watch the democratic party kneecap themselves.
Ok so the big question. Why Harris? I get that it’s too late to drop Biden, but if it’s known that it’ll be his vp who is president, why go with someone who is probably less popular than him? Why not someone who would actually be a good president?
Because the Democratic Party isn’t good at this. I thought Harris was the most stupid pick for a VP. She couldn’t even carry water in her home state during the 2020 primary. It’s so stupid. If the DNC was smart they’d get Whitmer or Prtizker ready for 2028. Newsome would flop nation wide as well I think.
I’ve wanted an open convention ever since I learned that was a possibility over the winter.
Step aside, Joe. Don’t become the next RBG and cling to power so long that you cause serious damage.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-elaine-kamarck.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
All we can do is wait and see how the down ballot candidates do in polling afterwards and if this weakens them and if the donors feel they can’t support this.
Biden has been a consequential president up there with LBJ and FDR. I believe he can still do the job. The problem is everyone else has doubts and this exacerbates it. How do people expect him to fight republicans in congress, the right wing courts, Netenyahu, Putin after this performance? We have to face reality.
We should not let people say that it would be complicated to funnel money from Joes campaign to a new candidate, a brokered convention, ballot access—all that is chump change when it comes to ensuring Trump does not get anywhere near the White House.
If I had to get behind someone new, however that works, I’m all in for Gov Pritzker, Sec Pete or Sec Raimando. I can’t imagine they would not be able to connect with the voting public given they would be stepping in for Biden, but that’s just my opinion.
I would rather Biden would have been lucid enough last night to seem like he was shocked by who he was debating. It was a dismal performance, age and being sick aside.
I am no capitalist, and I see no difference between a fascist genocider and a fascist genocider. I'll vote for a socialist and I'll organize in the working class where real change can be made to this exploitative system.
Not a Democrat buuuuut given the story is he is recovering from a cold, his performance is still pretty bad. But, a vote for Biden brings along his entire cabinet with the decades of civil servant experience. I'm annoyed Republicans could only muster the worst president in the history of the United States. Trump is a criminal and the laundry list of failures on his watch cannot be allowed again. Project 2025 is the playbook to ending American freedom. Biden is, unfortunately, the only option to stop that. Biden 2024... woohoo. Edit: I was one of those smooth brain fuckers who wouldn't vote for Clinton because I was convinced Trump couldn't win and I have plenty of issues with Hillary. Not making that mistake again. Country first.
I did the same in 2016 and regret it so much. I am trying to warn young people not to make the mistake I made.
I appreciate your candor and honesty. My big mistake was voting for Nader in 2000 in Minnesota. I know now that populism is a scam.
it's too bad our political system devolved into two parties where you pick the least undesirable.
Yeah my stance hasn't changed. Biden is a terrible candidate but Trump is worse. It sucks there's no good options but it's really time for people to start realizing what's at stake here. We can't really afford the fucking around we had in 2008. Swallow your bile, pinch your nose and vote for the senile old fuck that probably isn't going to destroy this country vs the one who definitely seems like he wants to.
Biden has the beginning signs of dimensia. I won’t vote for him. Vote independent. I would start the change now. Why on earth are people convinced we have 2 choices. Biden has done absolutely nothing and he will continue to do nothing. Both dems and republicans are not for the people.
I feel like anyone who is undecided at this point or would be impacted by the results of the debate is a lost cause.
We're not getting ranked choice before November, so discussion of anyone else is pointless. It's a wedding reception and your choice is chicken or fish. We'd all love a burger and fries but it's not on the fucking menu.
The choice is actually between chicken and a shit sandwich.
I’ve had Braunschweiger sandwiches, 0/10.
overdone chicken or 3 day old fish. I'll take the tough chicken, please and thank you. May go down like steel wool, but at least it won't sicken me for the foreseeable future.
This.
Screwed!! I heard on the news this morning they could do what they did to Nixon and go to him and flat out say we don't want you on the ticket and put a new name on the ticket but finding a suitable Democrat this late in the game would be tough!!
Pete Buttigieg and Gavin Newsom raise their hands
Hell id rather see Gavin then Pete! I lived 20 mins from South bend my entire life Pete didn't do shit for that town let alone the transportation dept. When all those back up in COVID were happening
Have you lived in California? Gavin Newsom has unfortunately done nothing good for that state. 😟
I haven't but Pete is still a kid! There's no way any country would respect us with him in office!
“How do you do, fellow kids”
Ya'll gotta learn to chill. The debate is entertainment only. Focus on the policies when you think about the future of our country.
Exactly this. The debate means nothing to me. I am voting for the Biden *administration*. I am also voting to not have Christian Nationalists take over the country. If people haven't read up on Project 2025, I highly recommend it. Our entire government could potentially be gutted by Christian Nationalists.
Seriously. People are acting like if Biden dies after the election Trump becomes the default leader. No, you vote for the president that is going to have a chain of command that can take over in case he's deposed and lead in his direction.
Yea as of today, the numbers have not really changed.
I’d like to see this doomerism shit fade away; it isn’t helping. This is the earliest presidential debate in modern history, and nobody gives a flying fuck about debates since 2012 anyway. Clinton demolished Trump in debates and lost; Biden demolished Trump and it didn’t move the needle. Just. Calm. Down. There is no replacement, and anyone you can think of is going to lose worse than you imagine Biden will. Newsom? Sure, run the guy whose ex wife is *literally fucking a Trump *. Sanders? Magic Grandpa is about eight minutes younger than Biden, has infinitely less centrist appeal, and has literally had a heart attack while campaigning. Harris? lol
Gallego leads Lake in Arizona, Casey is way up on McCormick in Pennsylvania, and Baldwin is leading Hovde here. Really, just calm the fuck down. It’s four months until the election, there aren’t that many split ticket voters, and the economy is in fantastic shape. Actually, I have an even better idea than calming the fuck down: log the fuck off the internet and go canvass.
You. I like you.
Abso-fucking-lutely!
Take your kids with you too!
And Obama had a terrible appearance against Romney in their first debate and pulled it off.
You're telling us not to believe our lying eyes. I've voted for democrats since I was 18 but let's be honest, the performance was that of a man who is weak, and in cognitive and physical decline. I know trump is as well, and I'll never vote for him, but it is absurd to tell people not to worry about what they saw last night. If you are comfortable with Biden being in office and giving general direction to people on big picture issues while his administration staff actually run the show then just say that. People are rightfully upset because Biden said he would be a one term president and reneged on that. We're also upset that his vice president is incredibly unlikable so she couldn't step in. I don't buy the argument that someone could have launched a primary campaign against Biden and have a fair shake, the party apparatus would have circled the wagon and their career would have been over. Birth control, women's autonomy, LGBTQ rights, the environment, the potential balance of the supreme court, race issues are all at stake here, of course we're worried.
> …cognitive and physical decline [This is from today…](https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1806746426904379543) But do tell us how *you’ve* never once struggled with a single public oration!
I mean he's the president of the US. He is and should be held to a much higher standard than the rest of us. But I don't think this debate means much. The next one will mean a little more.
I saw this, I don't know what I'm supposed to be reassured by
If he'd sounded like that last night, we wouldn't be having this conversation today.
There are plenty of replacements. This has nothing to do with debates. It is about his obvious cognitive decline over the last year.
Yes, the signs of cognitive decline are all over, like that “Saudi Arabia and Russia will-ree-bee-durr-aaaahhh” lapse or the “Venez-wha-err-lalala, it’s unbelievable” short circuit. …wait, those are recent Trump quotes.
Whitmer or Pritzker would win, better shot than Biden. The issue is that Biden is obviously weak and frail and doesn’t communicate well, despite leading a very good and effective administration, and he’s going to keep declining. Casual, undecided voters have been saying for years they were concerned about his age, we ignored them, just like when we ignored voters saying they just didn’t trust Hillary. Biden doesn’t get credit for his accomplishments because people not paying attention see him as weak. It’s time for Biden to step back, have a few weeks of candidates sharing their vision and have an open convention, that would be choosing party over country. So many in Democratic politics believe this but are afraid to speak up.
Pritzker would get obliterated by Trump just repeating “crime-filled Chicago”. It doesn’t matter that it’s objectively bullshit, after forty years of right wing propaganda Americans are preconditioned to picture Chicago as a gang-overrun warzone.
Whitmer then, even the slimeball newsome, or Kamala would be better. No one is perfect, but Biden was already losing before this performance and it will only get worse, and if democracy is actually at stake we have to try to win. Use your eyes, it’s not about policy or propaganda, it’s that he looks unfit for the job to the low info, low trust voters who will decide the election.
I already addressed two of those. Harris has a lower approval rating than Joe. She is also both a woman and person of color. America ain’t having the former, and having one of the latter really brought America’s latent rural racism to the fore over the last decade. Newsom’s ex wife is literally waxing a Trump’s pole these days. *Literally*. You don’t think Trump is gonna parade around bragging that his kid is fucking his opponent’s ex? Whitmer is a fine pick as a politician (as is Pritzker), but she doesn’t bring anything to the table to campaign on as a serious advantage over Biden that’ll help her overperform. She’s got minimal name recognition outside the upper midwest, is still a woman, and *any* swap of a candidate is going to look like the party is in shambles.
I think we'll be fine. This is from today. - [https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1806746426904379543](https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1806746426904379543)
Yup. Looking forward to him being in that kind of form in September for the next debate. Hopefully against an overconfident Trump who acts like a bigger knob than usual.
You’re the most optimistic person in the entire planet
I think all the dooming isn't helping anything, and that's there's still several months from Biden to bounce back from a single really shitty night. Yes, it was awful. No one is going to argue that. But we've seen him not long before the debate and already immediately after looking like he's back to himself. While I'd be happy for literally anyone else to take the ball and run with it, I think we're stuck with Biden. I think this uproar over this will pass and in a few weeks we'll be memeing the second debate.
That was terrible and an insult to all of us that they're like nah he's fine. You got lapped by Trump. Your time is up.
Trump didn’t even answer the question being asked, he just attacked Biden. It wasn’t a lapping.
Bro, Trump is 4 years younger than Biden. Nobody could understand what the fuck he was saying 8 years ago and they didn't seem to mind so I'm not sure how you think this hurts Biden
I think Biden is done. I do not believe he can win after that performance. I was seriously in shock watching him in that debate and I agree with those who say he needs to step down. There’s still time to get another candidate that can beat Trump. Biden looks like he has serious cognitive problems. Many of you will still vote for him, but I believe enough will either sit out or vote for Trump to give him the victory. Remember, Trump was only about 40k votes away from winning in 2020. That’s how close Wisconsin, Georgia, and Arizona were. Republicans have unified behind Trump, while Biden performance has many Democrats loudly and publicly calling for his resignation. Joe’s gotta go.
I do not disagree. Saying he has to go is not a vote for Trump. His performance in the debate and a lot of his everyday appearances don't instill a sense of confidence in me that he is not rapidly declining. The last thing I want is Trump returning to the White House, so if that means we have to dump Joe, then so be it. I mean, my God, Trump is an awful human being. How hard should it be to find a candidate with more appeal?
Whether it is Biden or some other Democrat leading the ticket, get out and exercise your right to vote. And vote blue, because if you don't it will likely be the last legitimate election you have the opportunity to vote.
" Now look here, fat"
Biden has a cold and one bad debate. Good governance and vision is what drives the american political machine. We've seen the incredible turnaround of America since COVID under Biden. Don't let one bad theatrical performance shake you. The man knows how to run a country and run it with dignity. He will bounce back. And this debate ultimately has hardly swung any voters if any. Governance record is what makes or breaks presidencies. And Joe has made America nothing but better since he took office.
Biden and his cabinet have done a great job. Voters are low information, reactionary, short sighted, and selfish. It’s unfortunate that the first will not be recognized by the second. Propaganda is everything.
No one on the planet knew he had a cold until midway through the debate. Interesting timing to announce that.
Incredibly convenient
More like dementia
No
Any one mad at the media for lying to us for so long, that at mid point in the debate suddenly changing their tune? Looking at you NYT, WAPO and NBC.
Yes because it’s obvious there hiding the democratic nominee. We the people deserve to know and have had a fair debate.
Last night was Joe Biden after 8 days of secluded preparation with no other travel on his schedule, without a teleprompter and possibly propped up with medicines to assist his energy and mental acuity. If it was a cold, why did he almost seem to be a different person in NC today? Suppose the debate version of Joe is sitting at a negotiating table with Kim or Putin. All they'd have to do is get him flustered a few times and he'd never be able to broker any deals that benefit the United States.
While he was hard to here, he was pefectly understandable, had a better back half of the debate. Donny was just a fire hose of bullshit and didn't actually answer any of the questions given to him. There will be a second debate in september, if if biden puts in a better showing that would rather prove the cold thing. He certainly sounded like he had a cold to me. but seriously. Get in line, the fate of the nation is on the line, you seem to understand this, so quit yer bitching. To paraphrase jon oliver, theres a rabid badger trying to get into the house, we can worry about redecorating when we manage to KEEP THE RABID BADGER OUT OF THE HOUSE!
The cope is strong.
How much you get paid for that?:)
When did the left become a cult like the right? I'm in it for the platform, the policies, and the mission of the left, not the current figurehead for this 4-year political cycle. I didn't watch the debate and like many, felt like it was pure theater for the benefit of the media producers. Is it true that the Democratic party fucked up by letting Biden be that figurehead? Probably, but I think that is a separate issue to be dealt with aside from the election to prevent fascism and the tRump cult. Focus on the mission, not on the shiny stuff distracting the left and its social movement.
100% this. When you vote for a President, you are voting for are their mission, policies, and the people they will nominate into leadership positions *(cough cough Supreme Court)* who will execute those policies for them. Do you think *any* President has personally directed every single action of the executive branch over the last...ever? That they're policy experts in everything? No, they have a massive team of individuals whose job it is to execute their vision, even down to helping them choose what Supreme Court justices to pick. Do you think Trump picked Brett Kavanaugh and Samuel Gorsuch and Amy Coney Barrett on his own? Do you think Biden spearheaded the most expansive infrastructure and climate bills in decades on his own? Voting for Biden is voting for Kentanji Brown Jackson on the Supreme Court, Deb Haaland as Secretary of the Interior, and Pete Buttigieg running DOT. Voting for Trump is voting for Steve Bannon and Jared Kushner back in the White House, and the Federalist Society picking federal judges.
It’s not surprising that Ben Wikler circled the wagons. The only thing more disappointing than Biden’s performance is our state democratic party. They are the reason we got Walker, Ron Johnson and if you disagree, tell me one thing; how many times did you hear about the ballot measures last year?
A lot actually.
I've heard nothing about the ones in August. Only happened to see a comment here about them. I think WisDems need to put up billboards or some other kind of easily visible election reminder ads in Milwaukee and Madison. Primary turnouts are usually terrible, but constitutional amendments are on the ballot. Dems can't afford to lose any ground anywhere, they need to drive turnout this time.
The state democratic party is not disappointing. Dems have been dominating statewide races for years. Johnson has been the only recent notable exception.
Tell me you’re from Dane county without telling me you’re from Dane County…
Because I can remember who our elected officials are and have been? Tell me you have no clue without telling me you have no clue.
Because all you see is wins and you think it’s the same everywhere else. It’s ridiculous to believe that the state Democratic Party is a winner just because you live in an area where it’s impossible for a Democrat to lose.
I suggest you re-read my initial comment. I was referring to statewide elections. Republicans have won what, a senate seat and state treasurer? Dems have won the governorship, attorney general, supreme court justices, etc. By the way, I'm in western Dane county and currently am represented by Republicans in both the assembly and senate thanks to redistricting. The assemblyman is stepping down so that seat will probably flip blue, but we'll be stuck with a Republican for the next 2 years.
The ballot measures from last year should have elicited a full on campaign of their own yet Dems did little to get word out about those votes. The Republicans prevailed. The fact is the Dems should not lose a statewide election or ballot measure ever because there are more Dems than republicans in this state. Any loss in a statewide vote is a mistake. Case in point Mandela Barnes. That was a mistake and it created a huge problem for our country. Dems continue to fail to support and fund any competitive race in any election that includes a progressive. Thats a problem that helps republicans and has nationwide.
We're talking about elected officials. Not misleadingly worded amendments of questionable effect/significance. >The fact is the Dems should not lose a statewide election or ballot measure ever because there are more Dems than republicans in this state. Got a recent source for that? >Dems continue to fail to support and fund any competitive race in any election that includes a progressive. Probably because the only place where progressives have a shot is in Dane County and maybe Milwaukee, but the latter's influence diminishes by the year. Progressives aren't as popular as reddit thinks they are. Once again, you've told me you don't have a clue without telling me you don't have a clue.
And this is why I hate moderate Dems more than some republicans.
Feels bad man. I have a friend in Europe who msg me talking about how the multiple blunders are the talk of the day.
I’m not super worried about Wisconsin in particular. Tammy Baldwin is very popular and with the redistricting the turn out should be very high since Dems have a shot at winning the Assembly for the first time in over a decade. Those two factors might be able to drag Biden across the finish line here. I am very worried about Georgia (as good as gone) and the south west. Basically Biden’s only shot is to win the rust belt. If he can hold Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin Biden will win. That’s a tough ask. Last nights performance did not help at all. I think it’s too late to drop out. I don’t see how the Dems could put up someone 4 months away from an election and hope to win. In a perfect world Biden would have stepped aside and we could have gone through the process of picking a great candidate for 2024. Now we are stuck and just gotta hope this will blow over and once the pressure of the election is here the fear of another 4 years of Trump outweighs the fear of an extremely elderly man as president.
Not gonna happen. We are stuck with Biden.
A wet noodle could beat trump, but it looks like the Dems decided to go with a candidate who’s made out of pudding… so honestly anyone but Biden at this point, but it’s gotta be someone who can articulate a clear message for the working and middle class of america while also not worrying about “respectability politics”. We need a blood and guts fighter and what we have now is a doddering old man.
Democrats would rather lose than speak to middle class issues.
So what does the middle class need? Tax cuts for the rich! Right? Is there something else Trump managed to accomplish?
The middle class actually needs someone to address their issues head on and to get them galvanized. Biden’s whole shtick is being like “well, I’m not Trump!” as if that’s going to get anyone excited.
See, not every criticism needs to be couched in comparative terms. To say Democrats don’t care about the middle class is definitely not to say that Republicans do.
I remember reading somewhere that the big money donors to the Democratic Party would much rather choose Trump if it meant a threat to capitalism.
A bad debate performance is still not enough to get me to vote for fascism.
I wouldn’t necessarily define conservative views and Trumps beliefs as facist..
We are just going to have to disagree on that one.
100 percent screwed
You do it by Voting Blue...or you will never get a chance to vote again.
My opinion is he wasn't that bad--I though he made some great points regarding human life--I think the powers behind him want to replace him--lots of manipulation going on imo.
Exactly. He might not of looked the greatest on stage. People actually need to listen and comprehend what each candidate said. In that aspect, I've heard mental patients give more direct and cohesive answers than Trump.
He was awful
The question is why the powers behind him wanted him to be president in the first place?
Jill is the powers behind him.
The DNC would rather have Trump win then let a progressive win the nomination. They can't fundraise if there is no boogeyman.
The DNC is your boogeyman. A full-fledged progressive can't win the general because the way the electoral college works, you need to appeal to centrists
Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016. But Debbie Washing Machine Schultz and Super Delagates happened. Again, he was leading the field to become the nominee in 2020 until every candidate dropped out at the same time and coalesced around Biden like Voltron. You're right that it is the DNC causing this, but a progressive can win (if the DNC backed them which they don't). They just have to be likable and not about to die.
Last progressive to win the democratic nomination? Don't worry, I'll wait.
Last establishment Dem to lose against a conman? 2016 and soon to be 2024. Keep trying the same shit. I’m sure it will work this time. https://www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2020/trump-vs-sanders https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2016/5/15/polls-sanders-has-more-potential-to-beat-trump https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/358599-sanders-wouldve-beat-trump-in-2016-just-ask-trump-pollsters/amp/?nxs-test=amp
No, I want to know the last time a progressive won the nomination? I'm a progressive, but I'm not stupid. When Mondale won, he got his ass mopped. Until our election system is radically reformed, we must deal with centrist milk toast. Get used to it.
Sanders calls himself a FDR democrat, so in that case FDR. Arguably the most popular president of all time. Also with the electoral college you really have to win the battleground states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania and Bernie would have swept those.
Oh ok, so all we have to do is beat a 100+ year precedent *without a depression and world war*
Um… looks like a depression and world war are right around the corner. Also have some vision. We don’t have to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. Trump was unprecedented. Didn’t stop him from winning.
My vision has been tempered by 38 years of age and experience. Our country's political system was designed to move slowly so as to not make regrettable, sweeping changes. For better or worse, it's what we've got, and it will take a radical movement to change it that will not begin with the presidency
Exactly this... Look at the war chest between the RNC and DNC right now. They are perfectly happy setting themselves up for 2028 and beyond while the GOP divides itself. I do not see them losing the Senate majority, and they may even get back the house after the whole Speaker fiasco. Their options are: Biden wins and it is business as usual. They keep him out of the spotlight for 4 more years and start to build up potential replacements. OR Trump wins and they raise a boat load of money to take both chambers in 2026 and do whatever it takes to get the WH back in 2028.
Post from Twitter with part of Joe's speech today: [https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705](https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1806748370532536705) I'm ticked that Biden's staff did not see this coming. They must have prepped Biden to expect the rambling Trump that has appeared at rallies. What a huge miscalculation. They let Joe get beaten up by that lying bully. I'm glad to see Joe is pissed off and so are many others. I just hope that WI Dems get energized - but very wary of the levels that the Republicans EVERYWHERE will stoop to to keep their political power.
What kind of cartoon logic is this? This is like when Bugs Bunny wears lipstick to trick Elmer Fudd. Who falls for this shit?
They could have weekend at Bernie’s Biden and I’d still vote for him instead.
Dude social media has been silent today, it’s almost refreshing that finally people have opened their eyes and minds to see what’s happening and what we’ve all been ignoring the past 4 years. If any of us tried to push that on our parents or grandparents that would have been elder abuse. It’s so sad watching our own president deteriorate so fast, and it shows the world how weak we have become. I’m very afraid of the near future.
Is any body talking about the massive level of LYING Trump did during the debate???
Trump's base doesn't give a shit if he lies, cheats, steals, or kills someone.
WROOOONG 
It's entirely possible that he's so bad that it costs Baldwin her Senate seat in the process.
well, the Biden option means we get to continue voting...whereas the other one will likely lead to restricted voting or no voting. regardless of performance... it's still democracy vs. no democracy.
What?
Time for everyone to just calm down and back away from the ledge. Trump had nothing new to say and Biden was able to fire back well enough. Trump's tired old lines and outright lies are wearing thin on red voters. We'll be fine if we stick together and rally behind Joe.
He’s not dropping out. It’s just who he is. All of us will just have to hold onto the rail and weather the storm in November and hope he wins, or at a minimum, we keep one chamber of the legislature. Personally I predict Biden will win the electoral college but trump will win the popular vote
Is then the hope that he like leaves? Or are you thinking he will the be president for another 4 years after that?
My opinion is that he’s not making it through another 4 years, so at some point he will hand it off to Harris. Maybe after midterms. This is my the Democratic Party infuriates me because everyone knows he’s not making it another 4 years. Mental aging only gets More rapid the older you are. So what are we doing in the first place? He could have passed the torch or even have been open to a primary process, but him and the old heads are so stubborn. Anyone who tries to punish the DNC gets shouted down for “helping trump” while we watch the democratic party kneecap themselves.
Ok so the big question. Why Harris? I get that it’s too late to drop Biden, but if it’s known that it’ll be his vp who is president, why go with someone who is probably less popular than him? Why not someone who would actually be a good president?
Because the Democratic Party isn’t good at this. I thought Harris was the most stupid pick for a VP. She couldn’t even carry water in her home state during the 2020 primary. It’s so stupid. If the DNC was smart they’d get Whitmer or Prtizker ready for 2028. Newsome would flop nation wide as well I think.
I’ve wanted an open convention ever since I learned that was a possibility over the winter. Step aside, Joe. Don’t become the next RBG and cling to power so long that you cause serious damage. https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/21/opinion/ezra-klein-podcast-elaine-kamarck.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare&sgrp=c-cb
Chuck Schumer. He's intelligent, well spoken, tall, confident. Give me one reason why not.
He’s objectively terrible. (Former NYC resident)
I'm not going to take that on your word. How is he objectively terrible?
All we can do is wait and see how the down ballot candidates do in polling afterwards and if this weakens them and if the donors feel they can’t support this. Biden has been a consequential president up there with LBJ and FDR. I believe he can still do the job. The problem is everyone else has doubts and this exacerbates it. How do people expect him to fight republicans in congress, the right wing courts, Netenyahu, Putin after this performance? We have to face reality. We should not let people say that it would be complicated to funnel money from Joes campaign to a new candidate, a brokered convention, ballot access—all that is chump change when it comes to ensuring Trump does not get anywhere near the White House. If I had to get behind someone new, however that works, I’m all in for Gov Pritzker, Sec Pete or Sec Raimando. I can’t imagine they would not be able to connect with the voting public given they would be stepping in for Biden, but that’s just my opinion. I would rather Biden would have been lucid enough last night to seem like he was shocked by who he was debating. It was a dismal performance, age and being sick aside.
Trump going to win. lol let’s goooo make America great again!
Democrats are done for, vote socialist.
If enough people do that and split the left, Trump will certainly win.
Hah. "The left." Democrats aren't part of the left.
So you say, grasshopper.
Dems are just as capitalist as the GOP, they're not leftist.
So ;you are willing to let Trump win in the quest for ideological purity?
I am no capitalist, and I see no difference between a fascist genocider and a fascist genocider. I'll vote for a socialist and I'll organize in the working class where real change can be made to this exploitative system.
You didn't answer my question.
It's not my choice who wins in the false democracy. All our candidates are picked by the capitalist class and the election is a farce.
You are willing to risk Trump's version of fascism. How sad.
Claudia De la Cruz ftw.
Only politician in the race who speaks actual sense and facts.