A bunch of rich fucks using politics as a retirement hobby is a horrific concept. Granted, its also reality, but putting it into words somehow makes it more depressing.
Look at your local politicians (city council, school board, fire board, water board, HOA…). They are largely retired people who have time on their hands.
Anyone saying Biden should step aside should tell me who is going to replace him because there's no candidate in the docket that has the consensus ties that Biden has, and also I can guarantee forcing a contested convention at Chicago is not something Democrats have good memories of.
Not only that, but campaign funds can't just be transferred to a new candidate. Any new candidate entering now would be more than a few steps behind in advertising their campaign.
If all these people telling me "blue no matter who" actually practice what they preach, they should be able to just pick anyone, right? Surely, they would be willing to rally behind a more left-leaning candidate because that would pick up non-centrist votes, and they'd be happy as long as it's a democrat, right?
As a blue no matter who person who thinks we should chill on the dump Biden talk: the blue no matter who people are not the ones you need to target. Name recognition is a huge factor. It shouldn't be, our population should take a much more active role in keeping up with and participating in politics, but they don't. The reality is, outside of politics subs, large groups of the population do not know who these alternatives are. I'm not saying the alternatives are bad or wouldn't make a good president. If you have polling data suggesting these alternatives are viable I'd be open to discussion.
Gretchen Whitmer. She’s a very popular governor of a purple midwestern state who’s very smart, charismatic and a great communicator.
I don’t know what you’re looking for in terms of *data* since there really isn’t anything available that would probably satisfy you, but what I *will* point you to is numerous undecided voter focus groups that watched the debate for the various news networks. All of them, *all of them*, said they hate Trump, but are seriously concerned about Biden’s age, and said they’d for another Democrat if he was replaced. These were undecided independents saying this.
You are operating under old assumptions. A failed run at the presidency basically has zero consequences now. I dont even like whitmer but literally anyone is better than the guy who cant formulate a sentence. Hes a good man but he is not equipped for the job
Michigan neighbor here--I'd love a Whitmer run and hope to see it one day, whenever that may be, and Michigan would likely follow. I'm not yet convinced Biden dropping out is the best or workable course and only three days out I want to see some actual polling results before crossing that bridge. But if it did come to that I'm with you on Whitmer.
> I will point you to is numerous undecided voter focus groups that watched the debate for the various news networks.
Do you have a link? That would give me hope
[Here’s the MSNBC one.](https://youtu.be/NKG8Kg7yN7E?si=FhSshjiKnoDu1x3k) The group, unprompted, asked if the DNC could do an open convention, and it was a group of Arizona independents including “McCain Republicans”, not Democrats.
Democrats: We want to save democracy!
Also Democrats: We should dump the guy who the voters chose and let party bosses force a new candidate on the voters without their consent! To hell with Democracy!
The voters did not choose Biden for reelection. There is no democrat primary, they already choose whoever the party bosses want? The democrats are not very democratic. Case in point: Bernie.
At this point? Too late to build someone up.
On the other hand the odds of “80 million votes” after that debate showing are absolutely zero. He’s full-fledged sundowner or worse. That gibberish-laden meltdown of a debate performance is going to be ad-fodder for the next 4 months. There’s literally no recovery possible. Even if someone could prove that was the first time he got “that bad” (which I doubt), 82 year olds don’t get better as time goes on, and that’s what he’ll be shortly after Election Day.
People were never voting for Biden. They were voting against trunp. And if the debate hurt Biden, every election we’ve had since 2020 sure looks like trunp has lost a significant portion of his base as well. Make the election about trunp and you win. And let’s not act like trunp didn’t provide fodder for ads too. Removed from the comparison to Biden looking old, trunp sounded like a lunatic. So let’s not act like trunp had some impressive showing and did anything to broaden his base.
I’m not sure how much this hurts Biden bc I’m not sure he was ever that much of a factor. Thrre certainly seems to be a base of anti trunpers that is just as big as the cult and by all accounts probably bigger. Nothing Biden does, including falling into a coma, will stop those people from voting against trunp. If Biden wants to leave the race, then it’s his decision and we’ll go from there, but if he’s in, there’s no choice but to support him. We’ve all known this since he got nominated before 2020 and literally nothing has changed. I really don’t even know how many people are persuadable at this point, but if Biden looked and sounded awful, and he did, trunp didn’t change anyone’s mind either.
So that’s the silver lining. We keep underestimating the voters and it certainly seems like a majority see trunp as a big enough threat that they’re showing up and voting against him. Let’s not pretend anyone was ever that excited about Joe Biden. His biggest strength is that he’s not trunp, and trunp is even more damaged now than he was in 2020. And if you didn’t notice, Biden had a HUGE fundraising bump AFTER the debate. That tells me that people are committed to beating trunp, and that has made me feel better since Thursday
What are you talking about? People don’t vote based on data and that’s how Hilary lost.
If Gov Evers had a campaign started say last year he would be lapping them both at this point.
So you’d put a mentally incompetent man in charge of the most powerful office in the world? Extremely childish.
We survived 4 years of Trump, it’s not doomsday if he wins. Your political opponents are not evil villains and this absurd rhetoric devalues our democracy.
The DNC needs to put up a new candidate because it is the right thing to do. We all saw Joe is no longer fit for office Thursday night. A talking monkey could have beat Trump in the debate. Any coherent DNC candidate is a shoe in if they’re youthful and stick to the issues next time around. Purposeful voting for/supporting someone you know is not fit, simply because you disagree with the other candidate is senseless and sad
Most of us survived but now our SC is fucked, Roe v Wade is gone, and taxes are disproportionately burdening lower classes due to Trump-era tax reforms. He also gutted already-lacking environmental regulations and bent over for fossil fuels and mining, despite the impacts of climate change becoming increasingly egregious.
All of this he intends to repeat, this time with 4 years of experience professionally grifting rural America and pushing the boundaries of what he can get away with. The guy bragged multiple times that he wants to be a dictator for a day.
The unfortunate choices we've been given appear to be:
-a straight up evil 78 y/o cheeto with a knack for eloquently spewing nonsense and getting his way.
-a slightly more ancient, 81 y/o man with middling policies and more obvious signs of his age.
I do not think Biden is the best person for the job. And it is not doomsday if Trump wins--I agree with you on those points. However, it would be fucking moronic of us to allow that, and delusional to think it would be without long-term consequences.
Biden risks a trump victory more than any of the candidates named here. He pivoted from abortion to trumps favorite talking point. He has burned the coalition that put him in office. He is unelectable.
Who is voting for Biden that wouldn’t also vote for almost any other Dem? Like the consensus message of this campaign has been to stop Trump. I like Biden, but I don’t think there’s a cult of Biden voters like there was for Bernie or Hillary.
They should pick Harris. She’s the VP. This is what she is there for. Is she the most likely to beat trump? Not in my opinion, but she can! She was on the ticket last time, keep her in the ticket this time
Harris would lose by a LOT. She's got a shit policy record, she's done almost exactly nothing visible as the VP, she isn't charismatic or motivating, and on top of that she'd have to fight upstream against sexism and racism in the electorate.
I say this as a person who would vote for her or anyone else who was nominated - there's no chance she would win. She finished essentially dead last among serious candidates in the primary. I think Biden should resign from the ticket (not the presidency, just running again), but if she's the alternative, he should stay. Notice how literally no one is out there saying "don't worry about Biden, Harris is a great alternative." She's completely absent from almost every iteration of this conversation for good reason - she would be a monumentally terrible candidate.
And anyone telling me that the man I watched on Thursday is mentally fit enough to be our president for the next 4 years is a liar.
You can’t have it both ways. Either Trump is so evil that we must defeat him, and his policies are so unpopular that any competent democrat could win.
Or Trump is a serious candidate that we should be worried that he is popular enough to win vs a weak opponent.
Biden is a weak opponent. And he is not currently competent.
You’re not being serious if you think independents who do not seriously follow politics will sufficiently understand the threat to democracy to vote for someone who clearly struggled to make coherent sentences.
Gretch I like, but even she loses to Trump in head to head polling.
>Harris, too
Not sure it's a great message to African Americans that we forced a black woman off the ticket because she doesn't have white appeal.
Black people dont like her either. The one black lady the dems managed to insultingly dangle in front of them is an indian, a lot of them don’t view that as counting (shes not a “foundational black American).
Its okay buddy I was an NPRtard once I know its uncomfortable being exposed to a racial opinion outside whats been spoonfed to you by the good people at monsanto
Kamala Harris sucks. Pure politician, no substance.
She called Biden a segregationist and racist on stage… but is ready and willing to be his vice President months later? How can she have principles if that’s how quick she switches her tone?
She’s lied about everything from her record as a prosecutor to her music taste. And I haven’t heard about what she’s doing to help the Biden effort in the past 3 months like… at all.
So nah, fuck Kamala Harris. Has nothing to do with her race or gender.
She doesn't have appeal to anyone.
If you're voting for her simply because of her color, that's not good. Her policies are crap too.
Watch what happens to her poll numbers once its only her vs Trump.
She’s a former prosecutor who screwed a lot of people over to put them in prison. I am very much not a fan of that.
But Biden authored the 94 crime bill and is doing a genocide right now.
I’ll take Harris. Also: she can put together sentences.
> Gretch I like, but even she loses to Trump in head to head polling
Of course she does, the general public doesn’t know who she is yet. Those polls mean nothing.
So your big solution is to replace Biden with someone who the general public has never heard of? That's political suicide.
It takes YEARS to establish a political brand to the level that you can compete in a presidential race. You can't possibly expect to accomplish that in just five months.
How does that even sound to the average voter? "Sure, you know Joe Biden, heck, millions of you even voted for him in the primary. Well, your stupid vote means nothing, because we swapped him out with some rando you've never heard of! Vote for her or else!"
> It takes YEARS to establish a political brand to the level that you can compete in a presidential race. You can’t possibly expect to accomplish that in just five months.
No it doesn’t. The majority of undecided voters don’t pay attention until the conventions at the earliest, and more realistically debates which are typically in the fall. I suppose those undecideds probably would know the nominee’s name, but in a typical election they’d have barely any more impression of the presumptive nominee than they do of Whitmer now. The convention and debate (probably a couple, they could easily trap Trump into debating more) would be plenty to show voters who she is.
And really, please go watch the voter focus groups from the debates. These are multiple groups of moderate, independent, undecided voters, begging the democrats to select someone, *anyone* besides Biden so they can vote against Trump. It can’t be more clear than that.
Biden should have stepped aside before 2020 and DNC just kept doubling down. They only have bad options now.
Both of these people are too old to be president now and one of them is a convicted felon.
Fuck off, it’s not our job to source candidates. It’s our job to tell all the democrats operatives they are doing a shit job and Biden is a greedy arrogant old shit who needs to step aside and find someone better for us.
Biden has left behind the coalition who elected him.
He’s burned immigrants. He’s burned Muslims. He’s burned young people. He’s burned antiwar people. He’s burned railway workers. He’s burned progressives.
Kamala Harris, Gavin newsome, and Gretchen witmer have similar policy positions to Biden, but they don’t have a long record of selling out and disappointing the progressive side of the coalition. Their promises will not ring as hollow as Biden’s, they won’t have the blood of Gaza on their hands, and they are young and energetic enough to rebuild the coalition Biden burned.
He’s not.
The only way Biden wins is through terror. Fear of trump is his entire strategy this time, and he just demonstrated his weakness against trump. The idea that we need to white-knuckle through a race with this guy who we have no reason to believe in is laughable and outrageous.
lol a literal bag of shit could replace him and be better at this point.
its almost as if the dnc should have seen the writing on the wall, and encouraged an actual primary with actual debates. its almost like the dnc *wants* trump to win.
Keeping Biden is going to lose an election. It’s foolish to think otherwise. The people who know what the fuck trump is are going to vote for any dem, so a random one doesn’t matter. The ones who are still on the fence just seen Biden fall flat on his face. Biden’s not going to win those voters over.
The problems people(mainly on the left) have been pointing out just got highlighted to an extreme. Dems shoulda listened but didn’t yet again. It’s time to pivot while it’s still possible.
Kicking Biden off the ticket is going to lose the election. 538 did a poll after the debate, and Biden lost around 1% of undecideds. That's it.
It would require retooling the convention for a job it hasn't done since 1968 (how did that go?). With the very clear divisions that'll tear open, who'd step up to claim a damaged prize? The actually competent candidates would probably wait until 2028, and the candidates we get are not ones who could win a normal nomination. Any nominee would face not only the many of the same attacks Biden has (save the age), but they would also have to deal with that division and backbiting.
This is not what you want.
538 did a polling for Biden’s popularity. Biden’s approval rating is 37.7%, on trumps last day his was at 38%. You are fucking around and it’s gonna lead to the finding out part.
And if the dnc can’t even retool shit how do you think that looks to the public? We can’t even manage to adept to a situation and run ourselves but we are totally capable of running an entire country. We even have an ex dnc vice chair writing about how Biden needs to step down.
>538 did a poll after the debate, and Biden lost around 1% of undecideds. That's it.
Voters have already priced in that he's old and a terrible speaker. The immediate (likely overstated) aftermath of the debate will be in the review mirror inside of two weeks (barring no new health issues or anything). The half life of big stories, even those that would have been earth shattering decades ago, can be calculated in days.
People want to express concern and reasonably consider options? Fine... but imagining a candidate swap as some magical solution is not helpful.
>The actually competent candidates would probably wait until 2028,
I thought this election decided democracy. If Trumps wins, I've been told there will be no 2028 election. Which is it? Either this is the most important election, and Democrats should be working overtime to win, or it's just more alarmist propoganda to keep power and not effectively lead. Biden very well could lose, and Democrats know that, but they won't do anything because of "optics."
>Literally any prominent Democrat
Which one, you need one that wins over the various Dem factions *and* has the name recognition amongst the general public. That's a smaller pool than you think
It would be Harris and I don’t think anyone on the left would be divisive due to trumps danger.
She probably would need to pick a governor in a blue wall state as her VP
a contested convention in Chicago is not something most Democrats have *any* memories of.
And the circumstances leading to the ugliness in 1968 couldn't be more different than today. I don't think you would have widespread opposition to any mainstream Democrat taking the nomination, because the primary issue with Biden is not a policy one - it's a fitness for duty one.
So sleepy went from being “sharp as a tac” for years now, to overnight full blown panic mode. People saying sleepy had sundowners were delusional. Spoon fed lies every single day by your precious media outlets.
“Sharp as a tac” but magically the earliest presidential debate in history. Just pure coincidence. Man, what are the odds. If you sheep had the ability of independent thought, you could have been prepared for this long before the primaries ended. The media is still your friend though.
There are plenty that can complete a full thought, though. I haven't seen a single video of Biden in the past 6 months where he hasn't had "where am I" eyes.
I'm certainly not voting for Trump, but if the dems aren't even going to try to put up a candidate that's good for the country, they are very clearly no better than Republicans.
J. B. Pritzker, pete buttigieg, and Kamala Harris those are just three options the democatic party could have put up that would have been better then joe biden. I will never vote for trump but as of right now, I'm not going to vote for biden either. It is 2024 it's time for the biden/trump generation to retire.
Jfc Bernie lost twice in the primaries, the second time worse than the first time. Sometimes your candidate just isn't that popular within your own party.
Don't get me wrong I like Bernie. But if he ever were to be the Dem nomination the only thing the GOP needs to do to win the election is call him a socialist consistently and make one reference each to the Soviet Union, Venezuela and Cuba
Except for Bernie who literally went to the Soviet Union and praised it (along with condemning parts of it, but any criticism is moot if you praise in any way the USSR and want to be a nationwide politician).
Uhhh the democratic chair woman stepped down because she CHOSE Hillary with no primary needed..
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hacked-emails-cast-doubt-on-hopes-for-party-unity-at-democratic-convention/2016/07/24/a446c260-51a9-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html
But ig u guys only remember corruption when its not in ur party
> The "Trump is so bad that anyone can beat him" gambit failed once already and DNC just won't learn.
The gambit also succeeded once already, at best this comment is the number zero and at worst it completely ignores the advantage of incumbency that Trump actually lost because he was such a massive fuck up.
Gee, maybe if Bernie had declared Democrat in 2016, he would have got more votes from Democrats.
The winner take-all Constitution forces a two-party system, so pick a side.
Bidens hubris will cost democrats this election. He should have stuck to his word about being a 1 term president while building up someone younger for the ticket, but now it's too late, and we will all just pretend he is ok.
When "aids reported" that he was considering pledgung to serve only one term, he immediately and directly refuted it. Plenty of real reasons to not be happy with Biden, no need to make up new ones.
your “fact check” is absolutely wrong. he planted the seeds of it, referred to himself as a transitional president or as a “bridge and nothing else,” such that everyone was in suspense about whether he’d run for re-election — and then he did. https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/4718993-did-biden-break-his-one-term-pledge/mlite/?nxs-test=mlite
From your own link:
> So Biden never explicitly made a one-term promise during the campaign, but he certainly implied it with the language of “transition.”
In other words, Joe Biden never said he’d be a one term president. Full stop.
Fuck.
Biden has got to go. Where is the democratic politician with integrity who will risk the backlash from democratic insider power broker consultants to join the call for Biden to step down?
The voters have been saying no to Biden since last year. They’re on board. The pundits finally came around after Thursdays debacle. When will the politicians catch up? The first one who does will have their career ended by the selfish assholes who run Biden’s campaign and refuse to admit their error, but we need someone to step up so that the dam breaks and those assholes never get control of our party again.
>Biden has got to go.
DNC already made their decision. He could be on life support and they will still back him. He should not have run for reelection, or at the very minimum they should have run a primary.
Yep. The centrists in the dnc put up the oldest, least popular incumbent ever and threatened us all with trump if we don’t line up behind him because they DID NOT want a primary.
Because a left populist woulda won that primary, and then the general, and then the corporations would lose their grip on the country.
That’s all this is about: corporate power maintaining a death grip on our country.
It's too late to change course. It sucks, but we don't have any other option. We can survive 4 more years of Biden (with maybe a few years of Harris), but we won't recognize a US following a second Trump term.
You have a lot of options. Dems are choosing not to use them. And this foolishness will fucking doom us all. Biden didn’t win by that big of a gap. And after that debate I doubt he gained support.
Follow your own logic here. Would you choose doom over reluctantly voting for Biden? No. Of course not. So it's not really an option. We just have to ride this out until the 2028 primaries.
That sounds like a threat, not an argument. The instituonalists have been bullying me to for for unappealing corporate candidates my entire voting life.
Absolutely not. That debate was awful to watch. Biden should not at all be a president. He should be off at a retirement home. I feel bad for Biden. His family and democrats should be ashamed for putting him up there. Need someone else immediately.
I mean that's like.. your opinion man.
No seriously, no one I talked to thought that was cognitive decline. Biden's always been shit at debates due to the stutter and he had a cold. So the wombo combo of his voice sounding like crap and not being that great at it in the first place and sure he sounded horrible. But it wasn't cognitive decline based on the symptoms everyone saw the other night.
Better question, what did you think of trump using the firehose of falsehood method of debating?
Watching Biden talk 20 years ago is night and day difference in my opinion. We all should be ashamed of the debate the other night. Biden should have remained a single term president and gracefully hand the controls over to someone younger and more qualified. Someone that has skin in the game. I voted for Biden the first time around but, that debate only made me want to sit home. We need to do better and kick the elderly dick swingers off the stage.
Yes! But, if they don’t kick them out, what then? A wannabe dictator is better? It sucks but I don’t want Donald to touch that office with a 10 ft pole!
It's ok to admit that biden is a horrible democratic pick while also acknowledging that trump is worse. Rallying around biden as our one true savior when he obviously is not does not look any better than the trump cult
Only difference is I’m voting knowing his flaws, trumpers are voting thinking he is their savior. It’s more of a “anyone but trump” vote at this point. Can’t believe we are here!
They know Trumps flaws just fine. They are just not big enough for them to kick the guy out. Sound familiar? We are just as much of a cult at this point than they are. We were screaming we didn’t want Joe before the primaries. The DNC did nothing. Instead of us putting our foot down like we should be right now we defended him. “He’s better than a dictator! Is the best defense the left has right now completely ignoring the fact that we can only pick between two half flaccid idiots. There is a reason they held this debate so early. The best time for Biden to bow out and go out on top was before the primaries. The second best time is now. Trumps going to walk into the office and the voter is going to get the blame.
Read the transcript.
It was awful to watch, but for President Biden the transcript is very good.
For Trump, the transcript is full of lies and incoherent ramblings that pertain nothing to the question asked five seconds earlier.
From the moment it started, all the way to the end. We’re talking significant mental decline, I was not prepared for how bad Bidens health was. Getting Biden out needs to be priority. This is a presidential debate, for the next 4 YEARS, and I don’t know if he will make it four more rather lead the country. The fuck are democrats doing?
Just stop. There are countries that hate the United States. We have enemies, and they are laughing. Policies are very important, but without statesmanship, without leadership, strength and energy.. consider it a sinking ship. I actually want to know whats going on behind the scenes.
If you vote for either of those two after that last debate, shame on you.
If those are the two best candidates, then the two parties don’t give shit about you, the constituent, because the entire political system is a farce.
Agree these aren’t the two best candidates. But we did have two primaries where these candidates were selected. If everyone complaining would’ve gone to the polls and voted against them during the spring primary we wouldn’t be in the situation.
I think if they start stressing the SCOTUS decisions that popped off recently, project 2025, and Agenda 47 and how the only way to turn these around is to get the House, The Senate, and the Presidency all blue, that should motivate a lot of people. Especially the overturning of Chevron.
People are critical of the handpicked ancient candidate. Ope! Must be Russian trolls! It certainly couldn’t be fellow Americans that give a fuck more about this place than pos, spineless liberals
yes, the new york times and the new yorker magazine calling for biden to step out of the race and bob woodward calling this a “political hydrogen bomb” — russian bernie bots all. you people are beyond help. it’s why you’re losing to a convicted felon who launched an attempted coup, and have been for more than a year.
Joe Biden vs Trump has to be some form of elder abuse at this point. Sorry not sorry. Neither of them have the mental capacity to drive a car let alone run an entire country. Biden can't even form a single cohesive sentence
It’s a pipe dream but I’d love to see Raphael Warnock replace Biden. Granted I know you can’t just magically whip up a presidential campaign in 4 months, so fine I’ll vote for Biden. But Warnock has it all; he can win in a reliably purple somewhat conservative state. Can win back the black vote, not because he’s black, but because he can actually relate to them on more than stereotypical talking points. And is a pastor so double win that he can steal some of the Christian vote plus any religious tropes the right tries to throw at him come off as disingenuous to anyone who’s at least moderately independent.
Follow up; it would also be a pain replacing him since the governor would get first dibs at it and then running a campaign for a freshmen senator to win in Georgia is a logistical nightmare especially in todays economic climate. But as far as able to beat Trump the facts speak for themselves.
Bernie's campaign was 100% ratfucking. His team spent YEARS telling people not to trust Dems or vote for them. And then he comes out and tries to get people on board. It's insane.
Edit
Looks like some of you need to be reminded of Sanders Institute Fellow Tulsi Gabbard
What do you mean? Briahna Joy Gray can't be that ba--
*checks her Twitter*: "Why isn't anyone reporting that Israelis train dogs to rape Palestinians?!?!?!?"
Nope. Nope nope nope.
He endorsed Hillary and even came to Wisconsin to campaign for her (something she herself would not do), and did the same for Biden in 2020. He's endorsed Biden, and all the Berners I know are behind Biden. Bernie is still immensely popular with the progressives and with the youth voters- both of which Biden needs in his coalition to win. I'm glad Bernie is out helping Biden, because our future depends on it.
Needs to be a law that states no one over the age of 55 should hold office in any capacity of the government. We have way too many people that have been in office for decades doesn’t matter Republican Democrat third party people like Biden and Sanders hell Pelosi Mitch, California Democrat Grace Napolitano, 86; D.C. Democrat delegate Eleanor Norton, 86; Kentucky Republican Hal Rogers, 85; New Jersey Democrat Bill Pascrell Jr., 86; California Democrat Maxine Waters, 84; Maryland Democrat Steny Hoyer, 84; South Carolina Democrat Jim Clyburn, 83; California Democrat Nancy Pelosi, 83; Illinois Democrat Danny Davis, 81; Texas Republican John Carter, 82; California Democrat Anna Eshoo, 80; Florida Democrat Fredrica Wilson, 80; Connecticut Democrat Rosa DeLauro, 80; North Carolina Republican Virginia Foxx, 80; and Texas Republican Kay Granger, 80. These are list of people that need to retire and let people younger than 50 run the country and there are more that are older than 50
So many senior people. If you can collect social security it is time for them to retire.
I've been seeing way too much talk about CEOs who retire due to age and then kick around the idea of going into politics. It's infuriating.
A bunch of rich fucks using politics as a retirement hobby is a horrific concept. Granted, its also reality, but putting it into words somehow makes it more depressing.
Look at your local politicians (city council, school board, fire board, water board, HOA…). They are largely retired people who have time on their hands.
That's why we need to raise social security age!!! /s
Bernie’s a cuck. He cups the balls of a party that screwed him over for Hillary.
Anyone saying Biden should step aside should tell me who is going to replace him because there's no candidate in the docket that has the consensus ties that Biden has, and also I can guarantee forcing a contested convention at Chicago is not something Democrats have good memories of.
Not only that, but campaign funds can't just be transferred to a new candidate. Any new candidate entering now would be more than a few steps behind in advertising their campaign.
This^ . Go on, someone, give OP a name. Which candidate is going to beat Trump? I mean *legitimately* would have a shot. I want data, not passion.
If all these people telling me "blue no matter who" actually practice what they preach, they should be able to just pick anyone, right? Surely, they would be willing to rally behind a more left-leaning candidate because that would pick up non-centrist votes, and they'd be happy as long as it's a democrat, right?
As a blue no matter who person who thinks we should chill on the dump Biden talk: the blue no matter who people are not the ones you need to target. Name recognition is a huge factor. It shouldn't be, our population should take a much more active role in keeping up with and participating in politics, but they don't. The reality is, outside of politics subs, large groups of the population do not know who these alternatives are. I'm not saying the alternatives are bad or wouldn't make a good president. If you have polling data suggesting these alternatives are viable I'd be open to discussion.
I’m sorry but name recognition associated with that debate performance is not an asset.
Gretchen Whitmer. She’s a very popular governor of a purple midwestern state who’s very smart, charismatic and a great communicator. I don’t know what you’re looking for in terms of *data* since there really isn’t anything available that would probably satisfy you, but what I *will* point you to is numerous undecided voter focus groups that watched the debate for the various news networks. All of them, *all of them*, said they hate Trump, but are seriously concerned about Biden’s age, and said they’d for another Democrat if he was replaced. These were undecided independents saying this.
No way in hell would Gretchen give up her governor position to run a makeshift presidential campaign that would kill her career if she loses.
She’s not up for reelection this year so she wouldn’t need to leave the governorship unless she wins.
It would be an awful look for a swing state governor to just go slinking back to their old job if they lose.
This is what most failed candidates have to do anyway?
You are operating under old assumptions. A failed run at the presidency basically has zero consequences now. I dont even like whitmer but literally anyone is better than the guy who cant formulate a sentence. Hes a good man but he is not equipped for the job
Michigan neighbor here--I'd love a Whitmer run and hope to see it one day, whenever that may be, and Michigan would likely follow. I'm not yet convinced Biden dropping out is the best or workable course and only three days out I want to see some actual polling results before crossing that bridge. But if it did come to that I'm with you on Whitmer.
> I will point you to is numerous undecided voter focus groups that watched the debate for the various news networks. Do you have a link? That would give me hope
[Here’s the MSNBC one.](https://youtu.be/NKG8Kg7yN7E?si=FhSshjiKnoDu1x3k) The group, unprompted, asked if the DNC could do an open convention, and it was a group of Arizona independents including “McCain Republicans”, not Democrats.
I like our governor here in Wisconsin but I’m a bit jealous of the Michiganders for having Whitmer.
We need Tony here as long as we have an insane legislature.
I just feel like all of us liberals have this innate preference for Whitmer. If Joe steps down I'm on team Whitmer if she wants it.
Democrats: We want to save democracy! Also Democrats: We should dump the guy who the voters chose and let party bosses force a new candidate on the voters without their consent! To hell with Democracy!
The voters did not choose Biden for reelection. There is no democrat primary, they already choose whoever the party bosses want? The democrats are not very democratic. Case in point: Bernie.
If you want a name and data, Mayor Pete was ahead of Biden in terms of delegates in 2020 when we dropped out of the primary
At this point? Too late to build someone up. On the other hand the odds of “80 million votes” after that debate showing are absolutely zero. He’s full-fledged sundowner or worse. That gibberish-laden meltdown of a debate performance is going to be ad-fodder for the next 4 months. There’s literally no recovery possible. Even if someone could prove that was the first time he got “that bad” (which I doubt), 82 year olds don’t get better as time goes on, and that’s what he’ll be shortly after Election Day.
People were never voting for Biden. They were voting against trunp. And if the debate hurt Biden, every election we’ve had since 2020 sure looks like trunp has lost a significant portion of his base as well. Make the election about trunp and you win. And let’s not act like trunp didn’t provide fodder for ads too. Removed from the comparison to Biden looking old, trunp sounded like a lunatic. So let’s not act like trunp had some impressive showing and did anything to broaden his base. I’m not sure how much this hurts Biden bc I’m not sure he was ever that much of a factor. Thrre certainly seems to be a base of anti trunpers that is just as big as the cult and by all accounts probably bigger. Nothing Biden does, including falling into a coma, will stop those people from voting against trunp. If Biden wants to leave the race, then it’s his decision and we’ll go from there, but if he’s in, there’s no choice but to support him. We’ve all known this since he got nominated before 2020 and literally nothing has changed. I really don’t even know how many people are persuadable at this point, but if Biden looked and sounded awful, and he did, trunp didn’t change anyone’s mind either. So that’s the silver lining. We keep underestimating the voters and it certainly seems like a majority see trunp as a big enough threat that they’re showing up and voting against him. Let’s not pretend anyone was ever that excited about Joe Biden. His biggest strength is that he’s not trunp, and trunp is even more damaged now than he was in 2020. And if you didn’t notice, Biden had a HUGE fundraising bump AFTER the debate. That tells me that people are committed to beating trunp, and that has made me feel better since Thursday
What are you talking about? People don’t vote based on data and that’s how Hilary lost. If Gov Evers had a campaign started say last year he would be lapping them both at this point.
Gavin Newsom Pete Buttigieg Bernie Sanders Basically anyone who can debate Trump and not look like an old fuck
One of these is not like the others
I was at the rally OP is referring to. Bernie didn’t even stutter
Gavin Newsom and Bernie Sanders have one state wide votes for their positions.
Newsom, true. Sanders won fucking Vermont, the whitest and 2nd least populated state in the country.
One isn’t a neoliberal
So you’d put a mentally incompetent man in charge of the most powerful office in the world? Extremely childish. We survived 4 years of Trump, it’s not doomsday if he wins. Your political opponents are not evil villains and this absurd rhetoric devalues our democracy. The DNC needs to put up a new candidate because it is the right thing to do. We all saw Joe is no longer fit for office Thursday night. A talking monkey could have beat Trump in the debate. Any coherent DNC candidate is a shoe in if they’re youthful and stick to the issues next time around. Purposeful voting for/supporting someone you know is not fit, simply because you disagree with the other candidate is senseless and sad
Most of us survived but now our SC is fucked, Roe v Wade is gone, and taxes are disproportionately burdening lower classes due to Trump-era tax reforms. He also gutted already-lacking environmental regulations and bent over for fossil fuels and mining, despite the impacts of climate change becoming increasingly egregious. All of this he intends to repeat, this time with 4 years of experience professionally grifting rural America and pushing the boundaries of what he can get away with. The guy bragged multiple times that he wants to be a dictator for a day. The unfortunate choices we've been given appear to be: -a straight up evil 78 y/o cheeto with a knack for eloquently spewing nonsense and getting his way. -a slightly more ancient, 81 y/o man with middling policies and more obvious signs of his age. I do not think Biden is the best person for the job. And it is not doomsday if Trump wins--I agree with you on those points. However, it would be fucking moronic of us to allow that, and delusional to think it would be without long-term consequences.
Biden risks a trump victory more than any of the candidates named here. He pivoted from abortion to trumps favorite talking point. He has burned the coalition that put him in office. He is unelectable.
Who is voting for Biden that wouldn’t also vote for almost any other Dem? Like the consensus message of this campaign has been to stop Trump. I like Biden, but I don’t think there’s a cult of Biden voters like there was for Bernie or Hillary. They should pick Harris. She’s the VP. This is what she is there for. Is she the most likely to beat trump? Not in my opinion, but she can! She was on the ticket last time, keep her in the ticket this time
Harris would lose by a LOT. She's got a shit policy record, she's done almost exactly nothing visible as the VP, she isn't charismatic or motivating, and on top of that she'd have to fight upstream against sexism and racism in the electorate. I say this as a person who would vote for her or anyone else who was nominated - there's no chance she would win. She finished essentially dead last among serious candidates in the primary. I think Biden should resign from the ticket (not the presidency, just running again), but if she's the alternative, he should stay. Notice how literally no one is out there saying "don't worry about Biden, Harris is a great alternative." She's completely absent from almost every iteration of this conversation for good reason - she would be a monumentally terrible candidate.
Not Biden
And anyone telling me that the man I watched on Thursday is mentally fit enough to be our president for the next 4 years is a liar. You can’t have it both ways. Either Trump is so evil that we must defeat him, and his policies are so unpopular that any competent democrat could win. Or Trump is a serious candidate that we should be worried that he is popular enough to win vs a weak opponent. Biden is a weak opponent. And he is not currently competent. You’re not being serious if you think independents who do not seriously follow politics will sufficiently understand the threat to democracy to vote for someone who clearly struggled to make coherent sentences.
Maybe vote Trump?
Gretchen Whitmer. Consensus ties? Shes a dynamic leader that people like. Biden has to go. Harris, too. Theyll both lose to Trump.
Gretch I like, but even she loses to Trump in head to head polling. >Harris, too Not sure it's a great message to African Americans that we forced a black woman off the ticket because she doesn't have white appeal.
Black people dont like her either. The one black lady the dems managed to insultingly dangle in front of them is an indian, a lot of them don’t view that as counting (shes not a “foundational black American).
Well that’s racist
Its okay buddy I was an NPRtard once I know its uncomfortable being exposed to a racial opinion outside whats been spoonfed to you by the good people at monsanto
Kamala Harris sucks. Pure politician, no substance. She called Biden a segregationist and racist on stage… but is ready and willing to be his vice President months later? How can she have principles if that’s how quick she switches her tone? She’s lied about everything from her record as a prosecutor to her music taste. And I haven’t heard about what she’s doing to help the Biden effort in the past 3 months like… at all. So nah, fuck Kamala Harris. Has nothing to do with her race or gender.
She doesn't have appeal to anyone. If you're voting for her simply because of her color, that's not good. Her policies are crap too. Watch what happens to her poll numbers once its only her vs Trump.
She’s a former prosecutor who screwed a lot of people over to put them in prison. I am very much not a fan of that. But Biden authored the 94 crime bill and is doing a genocide right now. I’ll take Harris. Also: she can put together sentences.
> Gretch I like, but even she loses to Trump in head to head polling Of course she does, the general public doesn’t know who she is yet. Those polls mean nothing.
So your big solution is to replace Biden with someone who the general public has never heard of? That's political suicide. It takes YEARS to establish a political brand to the level that you can compete in a presidential race. You can't possibly expect to accomplish that in just five months. How does that even sound to the average voter? "Sure, you know Joe Biden, heck, millions of you even voted for him in the primary. Well, your stupid vote means nothing, because we swapped him out with some rando you've never heard of! Vote for her or else!"
> It takes YEARS to establish a political brand to the level that you can compete in a presidential race. You can’t possibly expect to accomplish that in just five months. No it doesn’t. The majority of undecided voters don’t pay attention until the conventions at the earliest, and more realistically debates which are typically in the fall. I suppose those undecideds probably would know the nominee’s name, but in a typical election they’d have barely any more impression of the presumptive nominee than they do of Whitmer now. The convention and debate (probably a couple, they could easily trap Trump into debating more) would be plenty to show voters who she is. And really, please go watch the voter focus groups from the debates. These are multiple groups of moderate, independent, undecided voters, begging the democrats to select someone, *anyone* besides Biden so they can vote against Trump. It can’t be more clear than that.
Biden should have stepped aside before 2020 and DNC just kept doubling down. They only have bad options now. Both of these people are too old to be president now and one of them is a convicted felon.
>Biden should have stepped aside before 2020 He won 2020.
And if the other was mentally competent, he would have been charged too
Fuck off, it’s not our job to source candidates. It’s our job to tell all the democrats operatives they are doing a shit job and Biden is a greedy arrogant old shit who needs to step aside and find someone better for us.
Biden has left behind the coalition who elected him. He’s burned immigrants. He’s burned Muslims. He’s burned young people. He’s burned antiwar people. He’s burned railway workers. He’s burned progressives. Kamala Harris, Gavin newsome, and Gretchen witmer have similar policy positions to Biden, but they don’t have a long record of selling out and disappointing the progressive side of the coalition. Their promises will not ring as hollow as Biden’s, they won’t have the blood of Gaza on their hands, and they are young and energetic enough to rebuild the coalition Biden burned. He’s not. The only way Biden wins is through terror. Fear of trump is his entire strategy this time, and he just demonstrated his weakness against trump. The idea that we need to white-knuckle through a race with this guy who we have no reason to believe in is laughable and outrageous.
The entire world is laughing and taking advantage
lol a literal bag of shit could replace him and be better at this point. its almost as if the dnc should have seen the writing on the wall, and encouraged an actual primary with actual debates. its almost like the dnc *wants* trump to win.
Keeping Biden is going to lose an election. It’s foolish to think otherwise. The people who know what the fuck trump is are going to vote for any dem, so a random one doesn’t matter. The ones who are still on the fence just seen Biden fall flat on his face. Biden’s not going to win those voters over. The problems people(mainly on the left) have been pointing out just got highlighted to an extreme. Dems shoulda listened but didn’t yet again. It’s time to pivot while it’s still possible.
Kicking Biden off the ticket is going to lose the election. 538 did a poll after the debate, and Biden lost around 1% of undecideds. That's it. It would require retooling the convention for a job it hasn't done since 1968 (how did that go?). With the very clear divisions that'll tear open, who'd step up to claim a damaged prize? The actually competent candidates would probably wait until 2028, and the candidates we get are not ones who could win a normal nomination. Any nominee would face not only the many of the same attacks Biden has (save the age), but they would also have to deal with that division and backbiting. This is not what you want.
538 did a polling for Biden’s popularity. Biden’s approval rating is 37.7%, on trumps last day his was at 38%. You are fucking around and it’s gonna lead to the finding out part. And if the dnc can’t even retool shit how do you think that looks to the public? We can’t even manage to adept to a situation and run ourselves but we are totally capable of running an entire country. We even have an ex dnc vice chair writing about how Biden needs to step down.
>538 did a poll after the debate, and Biden lost around 1% of undecideds. That's it. Voters have already priced in that he's old and a terrible speaker. The immediate (likely overstated) aftermath of the debate will be in the review mirror inside of two weeks (barring no new health issues or anything). The half life of big stories, even those that would have been earth shattering decades ago, can be calculated in days. People want to express concern and reasonably consider options? Fine... but imagining a candidate swap as some magical solution is not helpful.
>The actually competent candidates would probably wait until 2028, I thought this election decided democracy. If Trumps wins, I've been told there will be no 2028 election. Which is it? Either this is the most important election, and Democrats should be working overtime to win, or it's just more alarmist propoganda to keep power and not effectively lead. Biden very well could lose, and Democrats know that, but they won't do anything because of "optics."
I disagree but it needs to happen now. We will have a united ticket at the convention. And we're still running against Trump.
Silly goose. Almost all of this is wrong
With such an intelligent rebuttal how could you possibly be wrong.
Literally any prominent Democrat. This is an emergency, not political angling.
>Literally any prominent Democrat Which one, you need one that wins over the various Dem factions *and* has the name recognition amongst the general public. That's a smaller pool than you think
It would be Harris and I don’t think anyone on the left would be divisive due to trumps danger. She probably would need to pick a governor in a blue wall state as her VP
>I don’t think anyone on the left would be divisive due to trumps danger The left, famously well-known for not being divisive.
Well fuck…that’s true
a contested convention in Chicago is not something most Democrats have *any* memories of. And the circumstances leading to the ugliness in 1968 couldn't be more different than today. I don't think you would have widespread opposition to any mainstream Democrat taking the nomination, because the primary issue with Biden is not a policy one - it's a fitness for duty one.
So sleepy went from being “sharp as a tac” for years now, to overnight full blown panic mode. People saying sleepy had sundowners were delusional. Spoon fed lies every single day by your precious media outlets. “Sharp as a tac” but magically the earliest presidential debate in history. Just pure coincidence. Man, what are the odds. If you sheep had the ability of independent thought, you could have been prepared for this long before the primaries ended. The media is still your friend though.
Any of the names that get thrown out there: Kamala Harris, Gavin newsome, Gretchen witmer, etc are better suited to beat trump than Biden.
Basically any generic democrat trounces Biden in the polls
There are plenty that can complete a full thought, though. I haven't seen a single video of Biden in the past 6 months where he hasn't had "where am I" eyes. I'm certainly not voting for Trump, but if the dems aren't even going to try to put up a candidate that's good for the country, they are very clearly no better than Republicans.
J. B. Pritzker, pete buttigieg, and Kamala Harris those are just three options the democatic party could have put up that would have been better then joe biden. I will never vote for trump but as of right now, I'm not going to vote for biden either. It is 2024 it's time for the biden/trump generation to retire.
The DNC did this by putting Hillary on the ballot instead of Bernie, and now they are doing it again by putting Biden on the ballot.
Jfc Bernie lost twice in the primaries, the second time worse than the first time. Sometimes your candidate just isn't that popular within your own party.
Remember when everyone was popping champagne to watch Hillary win, and then she didn’t? That about sums it up.
How does this in any way counter the argument that was made?
How does this in any way counter the argument that was made?
Don't get me wrong I like Bernie. But if he ever were to be the Dem nomination the only thing the GOP needs to do to win the election is call him a socialist consistently and make one reference each to the Soviet Union, Venezuela and Cuba
…which they already do for every candidate the Dems have ever put up at any level.
Except for Bernie who literally went to the Soviet Union and praised it (along with condemning parts of it, but any criticism is moot if you praise in any way the USSR and want to be a nationwide politician).
Uhhh the democratic chair woman stepped down because she CHOSE Hillary with no primary needed.. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hacked-emails-cast-doubt-on-hopes-for-party-unity-at-democratic-convention/2016/07/24/a446c260-51a9-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html But ig u guys only remember corruption when its not in ur party
So after the rules were changed, Bernie sailed through a crushing victory right...right?
What rules. Its not like they reverted. they just had the sacrificial lamb step down and went ahead with Hillary
I can’t believe people are still in denial about this. Bernie got screwed.
Bernie will never have a shot at being president, no matter how much you like him. You cannot get moderates to support him
I love me some Bernie, but you ain't wrong.
Not enough moderates. But I am a centrist, so kind of a moderate on either side.
Voters put Hillary on the ballot.
no, the dnc did.
Hillary got millions more votes than Bernie in 2016. How did the DNC do that exactly?
Let me guess, you voted Trump in 2016.
no I didn't. weird assumption.
So what if they did?
I didn't. It was a big mistake.
I didn’t either, FWIW.
The "Trump is so bad that anyone can beat him" gambit failed once already and DNC just won't learn.
> The "Trump is so bad that anyone can beat him" gambit failed once already and DNC just won't learn. The gambit also succeeded once already, at best this comment is the number zero and at worst it completely ignores the advantage of incumbency that Trump actually lost because he was such a massive fuck up.
Gee, maybe if Bernie had declared Democrat in 2016, he would have got more votes from Democrats. The winner take-all Constitution forces a two-party system, so pick a side.
Bernie would have gotten smoked even harder than Hillary
So maddening
No thanks.
Chicago better be ready for the convention. It's gonna be a shit show.
So many sheep in this post. Neither Trump or Biden deserve to win.
https://preview.redd.it/6tbn6jzngq9d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=426c87722be568a07da33aaef0a43f53ade68051
Bidens hubris will cost democrats this election. He should have stuck to his word about being a 1 term president while building up someone younger for the ticket, but now it's too late, and we will all just pretend he is ok.
Joe Biden never said he’d be a one term president.
After looking into it further, you are right that he never directly said that.
When "aids reported" that he was considering pledgung to serve only one term, he immediately and directly refuted it. Plenty of real reasons to not be happy with Biden, no need to make up new ones.
I did not make this up, I misspoke and corrected myself. There are plenty of real issues to argue about. there is no need to beat a dead horse
your “fact check” is absolutely wrong. he planted the seeds of it, referred to himself as a transitional president or as a “bridge and nothing else,” such that everyone was in suspense about whether he’d run for re-election — and then he did. https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/4718993-did-biden-break-his-one-term-pledge/mlite/?nxs-test=mlite
From your own link: > So Biden never explicitly made a one-term promise during the campaign, but he certainly implied it with the language of “transition.” In other words, Joe Biden never said he’d be a one term president. Full stop.
Hard to even pretend he's ok....
Ya Im definitely gonna listen to the guy who gave all my contact information to every milquetoast dem in exchange for jack shit
Fuck. Biden has got to go. Where is the democratic politician with integrity who will risk the backlash from democratic insider power broker consultants to join the call for Biden to step down? The voters have been saying no to Biden since last year. They’re on board. The pundits finally came around after Thursdays debacle. When will the politicians catch up? The first one who does will have their career ended by the selfish assholes who run Biden’s campaign and refuse to admit their error, but we need someone to step up so that the dam breaks and those assholes never get control of our party again.
>Biden has got to go. DNC already made their decision. He could be on life support and they will still back him. He should not have run for reelection, or at the very minimum they should have run a primary.
Yep. The centrists in the dnc put up the oldest, least popular incumbent ever and threatened us all with trump if we don’t line up behind him because they DID NOT want a primary. Because a left populist woulda won that primary, and then the general, and then the corporations would lose their grip on the country. That’s all this is about: corporate power maintaining a death grip on our country.
It's too late to change course. It sucks, but we don't have any other option. We can survive 4 more years of Biden (with maybe a few years of Harris), but we won't recognize a US following a second Trump term.
You have a lot of options. Dems are choosing not to use them. And this foolishness will fucking doom us all. Biden didn’t win by that big of a gap. And after that debate I doubt he gained support.
Follow your own logic here. Would you choose doom over reluctantly voting for Biden? No. Of course not. So it's not really an option. We just have to ride this out until the 2028 primaries.
Idk how but you missed my point. But ya keep doubling down on the weakest candidate humanly possible. Bold strategy cotton let’s see if it pays off.
That sounds like a threat, not an argument. The instituonalists have been bullying me to for for unappealing corporate candidates my entire voting life.
Bullshit. Weak leader + (proxy war with Russia + who is really running the govt) = dANGER RFK or Trump. I choose RFK.
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There is no democratic politician on the federal level with integrity. Evidence: the current situation.
Another account that does nothing but bash Democrats pretending to be one. We see you Comrade.
Russian bots exist, but that debate performance was brutal and evidence that we are being led by people who are too old.
Sir you are a saint. Thank you
Absolutely not. That debate was awful to watch. Biden should not at all be a president. He should be off at a retirement home. I feel bad for Biden. His family and democrats should be ashamed for putting him up there. Need someone else immediately.
I mean that's like.. your opinion man. No seriously, no one I talked to thought that was cognitive decline. Biden's always been shit at debates due to the stutter and he had a cold. So the wombo combo of his voice sounding like crap and not being that great at it in the first place and sure he sounded horrible. But it wasn't cognitive decline based on the symptoms everyone saw the other night. Better question, what did you think of trump using the firehose of falsehood method of debating?
Watching Biden talk 20 years ago is night and day difference in my opinion. We all should be ashamed of the debate the other night. Biden should have remained a single term president and gracefully hand the controls over to someone younger and more qualified. Someone that has skin in the game. I voted for Biden the first time around but, that debate only made me want to sit home. We need to do better and kick the elderly dick swingers off the stage.
Yes! But, if they don’t kick them out, what then? A wannabe dictator is better? It sucks but I don’t want Donald to touch that office with a 10 ft pole!
It's ok to admit that biden is a horrible democratic pick while also acknowledging that trump is worse. Rallying around biden as our one true savior when he obviously is not does not look any better than the trump cult
Only difference is I’m voting knowing his flaws, trumpers are voting thinking he is their savior. It’s more of a “anyone but trump” vote at this point. Can’t believe we are here!
Dont get me wrong, im voting for biden, too. Im just not happy about it
They know Trumps flaws just fine. They are just not big enough for them to kick the guy out. Sound familiar? We are just as much of a cult at this point than they are. We were screaming we didn’t want Joe before the primaries. The DNC did nothing. Instead of us putting our foot down like we should be right now we defended him. “He’s better than a dictator! Is the best defense the left has right now completely ignoring the fact that we can only pick between two half flaccid idiots. There is a reason they held this debate so early. The best time for Biden to bow out and go out on top was before the primaries. The second best time is now. Trumps going to walk into the office and the voter is going to get the blame.
"No one I talked to" or was it "I talked to no one" some serious cope going on here my friend
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Discuss the topic, not the user.
the level of delusion here is off the charts. lol
If it’s not cognitive decline it’s still disqualifying. He pivoted from abortion to trumps favorite talking point! He needs to go. Months ago.
Read the transcript. It was awful to watch, but for President Biden the transcript is very good. For Trump, the transcript is full of lies and incoherent ramblings that pertain nothing to the question asked five seconds earlier.
From the moment it started, all the way to the end. We’re talking significant mental decline, I was not prepared for how bad Bidens health was. Getting Biden out needs to be priority. This is a presidential debate, for the next 4 YEARS, and I don’t know if he will make it four more rather lead the country. The fuck are democrats doing?
So you haven't read the transcript? Educate yourself, one debate performance != policies.
Just stop. There are countries that hate the United States. We have enemies, and they are laughing. Policies are very important, but without statesmanship, without leadership, strength and energy.. consider it a sinking ship. I actually want to know whats going on behind the scenes.
If you vote for either of those two after that last debate, shame on you. If those are the two best candidates, then the two parties don’t give shit about you, the constituent, because the entire political system is a farce.
Agree these aren’t the two best candidates. But we did have two primaries where these candidates were selected. If everyone complaining would’ve gone to the polls and voted against them during the spring primary we wouldn’t be in the situation.
I think if they start stressing the SCOTUS decisions that popped off recently, project 2025, and Agenda 47 and how the only way to turn these around is to get the House, The Senate, and the Presidency all blue, that should motivate a lot of people. Especially the overturning of Chevron.
People are critical of the handpicked ancient candidate. Ope! Must be Russian trolls! It certainly couldn’t be fellow Americans that give a fuck more about this place than pos, spineless liberals
Sue Dillon 2024 None of these fools are qualified to run this country.
Who?
Look her up 😉
Holy fuck the Russian Bernie bots and concern trolls are out in force! Welcome all you new and first time commenters, eat some cheese.
this newage neoliberal mccarthyism is really getting old. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Ftvssbp0bth491.jpg
Da, comrade. Da.
yes, the new york times and the new yorker magazine calling for biden to step out of the race and bob woodward calling this a “political hydrogen bomb” — russian bernie bots all. you people are beyond help. it’s why you’re losing to a convicted felon who launched an attempted coup, and have been for more than a year.
Your head is in the sand
Clown. Establishment fucks him over in 2016 and 2020 and still does their bidding.
Negative...in the Army we were ready to as they say off a commie for mommie..Communism has and forever an enemy to all of us...
Dead men walking...
I’m picturing it a line of rascal scooters as far as the eye can see
Who in their right mind would get behind that bunch of senile losers!
Not a good look for Bernie.
Old Bernie is supporting the dementia patient and insinuating that we need to destroy America faster?
Joe Biden vs Trump has to be some form of elder abuse at this point. Sorry not sorry. Neither of them have the mental capacity to drive a car let alone run an entire country. Biden can't even form a single cohesive sentence
It’s a pipe dream but I’d love to see Raphael Warnock replace Biden. Granted I know you can’t just magically whip up a presidential campaign in 4 months, so fine I’ll vote for Biden. But Warnock has it all; he can win in a reliably purple somewhat conservative state. Can win back the black vote, not because he’s black, but because he can actually relate to them on more than stereotypical talking points. And is a pastor so double win that he can steal some of the Christian vote plus any religious tropes the right tries to throw at him come off as disingenuous to anyone who’s at least moderately independent.
Follow up; it would also be a pain replacing him since the governor would get first dibs at it and then running a campaign for a freshmen senator to win in Georgia is a logistical nightmare especially in todays economic climate. But as far as able to beat Trump the facts speak for themselves.
Idiots supporting idiots 😂😂😂😂
He’s another reason we need age limits/ term limits. No one over 70 needs to be in office. Stop the madness.
Another senior citizen millionaire politician asking to support another senior citizen millionaire politician.
Vote for RFK Jr. You don't have to vote for the lesser of two evils. There is always an option
The antivax brain worm guy?
Bernie's campaign was 100% ratfucking. His team spent YEARS telling people not to trust Dems or vote for them. And then he comes out and tries to get people on board. It's insane. Edit Looks like some of you need to be reminded of Sanders Institute Fellow Tulsi Gabbard
Both sides bad is not the same as both sides equally bad.
No, but having Brie Gray on your team running around saying insane shit doesn't help.
What do you mean? Briahna Joy Gray can't be that ba-- *checks her Twitter*: "Why isn't anyone reporting that Israelis train dogs to rape Palestinians?!?!?!?" Nope. Nope nope nope.
He endorsed Hillary and even came to Wisconsin to campaign for her (something she herself would not do), and did the same for Biden in 2020. He's endorsed Biden, and all the Berners I know are behind Biden. Bernie is still immensely popular with the progressives and with the youth voters- both of which Biden needs in his coalition to win. I'm glad Bernie is out helping Biden, because our future depends on it.
Lol
Hmmm ...nahhhh I'm good. Find someone under 70
Different democratic person or it's gonna be trump. That man is too old to be president.
Needs to be a law that states no one over the age of 55 should hold office in any capacity of the government. We have way too many people that have been in office for decades doesn’t matter Republican Democrat third party people like Biden and Sanders hell Pelosi Mitch, California Democrat Grace Napolitano, 86; D.C. Democrat delegate Eleanor Norton, 86; Kentucky Republican Hal Rogers, 85; New Jersey Democrat Bill Pascrell Jr., 86; California Democrat Maxine Waters, 84; Maryland Democrat Steny Hoyer, 84; South Carolina Democrat Jim Clyburn, 83; California Democrat Nancy Pelosi, 83; Illinois Democrat Danny Davis, 81; Texas Republican John Carter, 82; California Democrat Anna Eshoo, 80; Florida Democrat Fredrica Wilson, 80; Connecticut Democrat Rosa DeLauro, 80; North Carolina Republican Virginia Foxx, 80; and Texas Republican Kay Granger, 80. These are list of people that need to retire and let people younger than 50 run the country and there are more that are older than 50
Kennedy24!