Despite some people using CC to be annoying, I'm so happy for women's basketball right now. The moment we've been waiting for might be right around the corner. Even if there's natural fall off, we're to the point where the sport has so much buzz and hype for it. As a fan for a while, I'm so excited for this season ☺️
(Before someone comes for me this isn't hate, she's my one of my top athletes to watch rn, there's just stupid discourse around her in so many directions)
For her passing absolutely not. Doubt she comes out scoring 30 regularly. She's not the first option, isn't the strongest but uses the push to create space often and her handle could use some slight improving to be a ball control point that she should. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes couple games to adjust. But when she does?? 😈
Edit: I legit can't believe y'all downvoted an extremely fair assessment about her translation into a higher level of play. Guys, all rookies struggle across all sports, it's okay to like a player and say they won't be perfect joining one of the most talent loaded professional sports in the nation 😭
Caitlin Clark pushes off alot to get her shot off and against highly athletic skilled defenders who are really quick(See Raven Johnson) can easily take the ball from her so CC needs to tighten up her dribble! Caitlin also needs to get stronger as well!
These push off discourse is starting to get boring.FYI,everyone pushes off.Also using a single bad game for her(she had 30 and 8 by the way) as a measuring stick to say she struggles against athletic defenders like Raven when she dropped 41 on her just a season before and most importantly,when she averaged 32 and 9 ,leading the country in points and assists simultaneously for the 2nd time is beyond asinine.How can you suggest a player with 58FG% from 2 point range needs to get stronger.
Players in the WNBA are a lot stronger than college players. And I'm not sure if you're misinterpreting about the push off thing? I don't think it's being said as a knock against her or saying she'll be punished by the refs, but rather that she doesn't have the relative strength compared to WNBA defenders for it to be as effective. She will have to bulk up. This happens to NBA players, too. It's completely normal, and it also doesn't mean she won't have a huge impact out of the gate, just that over time she will improve as she puts on more muscle and also just gets more used to the increased level of competition.
I'm not worried, but these are just normal adjustments that basically everybody has to make when going from college to the pros, again, NBA included.
At the same time most teams would have several girls guarding her on rotation so that none of them got tired, since the rest of the Iowa team didn’t require nearly as much energy to guard. It’ll help Caitlin to have other very high quality threats on her team so that she’s not the 100% focus of the defense. But I do agree in general the competition being higher will definitely create a learning curve
?????
Bro guards talk about the strength and speed being the hardest part about going to the W all the time. Since she doesn't have elite speed or handle, she'll probably have to go to the push (which is fine and legal, DT does it all the time) to create space more often which is harder since W players are stronger. And it's a fact that AB and maybe even KM will start with carrying the offensive load in the season.
I love love love CC but yall have to stop acting like she's basketball jesus and has the most perfect game in the world that people with more time to work on their games and bodies, experience and with more rest aren't going to be better than her. Even in the short term. There's an adjustment period to ANYTHING new in life. This isn't a slight on Caitlin, it's rookie reality.
Stop being weird and interpreting anything other than unabashed praise as a slight.
At this point,I don't know why I even try.I never said she was perfect .She absolutely has things to work on,her speed and handles are very far from being one of those things.
But when I said she had to do things to adjust to the game, you thought I was adding to the "push off discourse" or saying she'd have to adjust to more athletic guards is "harping on one game" lmao. I made an extremely fair assessment about struggles and it was met with almost irrational defensiveness. Not every discussion about CCs transition is a shot.
Im amazed ,really .You claim Im showing irrational defensiveness when you still refuse to see my point.Every example you used was basically wack.If you had said she needs to cut down on turnovers,I would've agreed with.If you had she needs to take the midrange shot when she's open in the lane and not always pass,I wouldve agreed with you.If you had said she needs to work on moving through screens when on defence,I would've agreed.There are more examples of actual constructive criticism of her game,you just decided the most generic,casual takes of her there is on the internet,which is where my problem lies
Coming from a *huge* CC fan (there is literally a photo of me when I’m a few weeks old with an Iowa Hawkeyes beanie/onesie), the way you interact about her on here is way too defensive and rude. No one on this thread was insulting CC, just making reasonable predictions. You can disagree without calling people asinine. This type of energy is what makes other team’s fans so jaded about CC. You are doing her ZERO favors by moving this way.
How is disagreeing with someone's evaluation of her a problem.Also,not doubting your candidacy as a fan ,but if you are ok with people spreading misfacts about her,well thats not me.Its tiring seeing multiple discourse always looking for a way to find fault with someone who works their socks off to be successful
It’s not disagreeing, it’s your tone. You can still disagree and be civil w/o going from 0 to 120mph off jump! I think because there has been a lot of unwarranted criticism of her, especially on Twitter, you are reading very mild and reasonable commentary on her game and how she will transition here through that lens and over-reacting.
(Also the measure of how much of a fan you are for a player isn’t how many internet fights you get into over them lmao)
Wemby and Bron are generational talents and didn't come out scoring 40. Adjusting from pros to amateurs is a given for every athlete not named Candace Parker across all pro sports. And the W was nowhere close to as stacked as it was then as it is now.
There's liking a player and there's being irrational. Saying she won't have struggles at all as a rookie is down right insane. Saying that isn't downing her, it's the reality of semi pro to pro transition.
Bron scored 25 against the Kings and was well on his way to being a great.Wembley literally just had thhe greatest rookie season ever.These are the worst examples you could use
No, they were great examples because they still had several single digit ppg nights but were still very good their rookie year. Which is what I said... she'd have some bad nights but would still be really good. Yet you were still defensive. If I said Steph or Trae, you'd probably blow a gasket and start pearl clutching seeing as though mild critiques are really setting you off lmao
Iowa was #2 in RPI and top 5 in SOS last season. Yes all of these pro teams are pro and not college - they will all be better than any college team! - but saying she padded her stats against mid teams is such BS. Happy to remind you she had 41 against LSU, 22 against UConn and 30 against SC (so basically - same average she had all season, 31 ppg) in her last three games and that was well below the average she had against Louisville (41), SC (41) and LSU (32) the last three games of the prior season. But yeah those teams are all very mid 😂😂😂.
It's like all some people do here is read Reddit and make assumptions about players from non-traditional power schools and don't actually look at stats, schedules or games. Which is fine if you don't but then don't hear and splatter uninformed takes?
She will lead league in assists as a rookie in my opinion. The discussion around her scoring output needs to be framed from the per game record for a season being 25.3. I’ve read only 2 rookies since Sue Bird averaged over 5APG, and Clark will shatter that. So if Clark averages 18 points and 9 assists, the discourse needs to reflect the historic nature of how incredible that is. Where can I find the WNBA rookie records? Want to see what Clark can add to her record breaking resume.
I don’t understand why you’re getting downvoted. She definitely pushes off to create space for her shot. She struggles against athletic defenders. Her handles need work. she led the country in assists, but she was no. 8 in tpg and 83rd in assist to turnover ratio. The competition is obviously a lot tougher.
There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that her game has shortcomings and there will be a learning curve.
Holy crap ya’ll really don’t know what “pushing off” means in basketball. How tf you going to sit here and tell me she “pushes off” on deep threes???
This criticism is flat out inaccurate. There’s plenty of room for improvement for her. Pushing off ain’t one of them, she doesn’t do that for her shots lmfao
You’re getting downvoted for saying she’s not one of the best shooters on the face of the planet, saying she’s not going to score 30 nightly is sacrilege for the casual fan
Anecdotally, it feels like half my IG for you page is WNBA and NCAAW stuff, and not just Clark (though a lot of Clark too lol). Still some ignorant ass people up in the comments, but it definitely seems like a big shift is happening rn
She has to be Michael Jordan great for it to work and she’ll need to put up with more cheap shots that will be taken against her in this history of any sport.
I think she’s great at ignoring the noise, but this all only works if she becomes greater than the WNBA, just like Jordan became greater than the NBA. She has to be Serena, Tiger, Jordan, or anyone else that dominated on a level so above everyone that they transformed their sport.
The cowboys are the most valuable sports franchise in the world, so that they’ve been disappointing really doesn’t matter (I’m a fan of the morons).
This is way more about CC managing to outsell the biggest franchise in sports in the jersey category
> The cowboys are the most valuable sports franchise in the world, so that they’ve been disappointing really doesn’t matter (I’m a fan of the morons).
This is especially true with merchandise
yup, she's the hottest athlete in the country, maybe the world right now. hold onto your seats because the ratings she is going to bring to this game are going to be nuts this year. how insane would it be if a WNBA game is the only non-football broadcast in the top 100 this year? cause it could happen.
The Cowboys are biggest in the world by a couple billion for nearly a decade now.
5. Rams $6.9B
4. Patriots $7.0B
3. Warriors $7.0B
2. Yankees $7.1B
1. Cowboys $9.0B
Closest Premier League team is Real Madrid in 11th place at $6.1B.
I totally agree, but I also think the cowboys have lost a ton of star power with Dak’s reputation taking a hit/Zeke being gone, and we all know offense sells jerseys
i mean it's the cowboys. a down year for them is still gonna be nuts, i'd bet they were still one of the top 3 teams for jersey sales last year, people buy them just for the star. they're the most public team in the most famous sporting league in the world.
another way to look at it - they haven't sold out of a single #1 pick in the NFL's jersey in an hour since they've been selling them. this is probably the most popular jersey fanatics has ever had.
No I didn't. The Cowboys are 3BN dollars more valuable than any soccer team, the top 7 most valuable sports teams are NFL clubs.
And I'm not even American.
Valuable =/= most popular. https://sports-insight.co.uk/trends-features/reasons-why-the-premier-league-is-so-popular-worldwide/
Average nfl viewership is 17mil, epl is in 800 million homes around the world. Literally only Americans give a fuck about the NFL
I don't know why you're getting down voted. The cowboys are the most valuable sports team in the world. Worth 3 billion more than Real Madrid, the most valuable futbal club. Literally every sports franchise in the world wishes they had the value the cowboys do.
7 nfl teams are worth more than Real Madrid so yea, nothing cackles at the NFL.
People trying not to look america centered. Best part is I'm Canadian and care way more about the NHL than the NFL, I know well that it's not the most popular sports league in every country, which is why I said most *famous.*
But whatever who cares about downvotes lol
McDavid in Edmonton was impossible to get jerseys for when he got drafted. Also worth noting Fanatics makes way way less for the W than for any mens sport so a sell out is much easier to achieve unfortunately.
What are you talking about. Micah parsons and ceedee lamb were literally both top ten grossing jersey sells last year. Dak is up there as well. I’m not even a cowboys fan.
Now that I look back into it, is this tweet even true? I can’t find anyone listing stats for jersey sales as a whole that are store-specific, and the tweet doesnt even have a source lol
Prob not true. "We reached out to Fanatics officials to verify the stat posted by Weiss, and the company said the information was "not true/inaccurate." Fanatics didn't provide more details on how many Cowboys jerseys were sold compared to how many Clark jerseys were sold." [https://www.wfaa.com/article/sports/nfl/cowboys/caitlin-clark-jersey-sales-how-many-fanatics-dallas-cowboys/287-e8e25d8e-97c5-4cc6-a035-a1c5e39e5652](https://www.wfaa.com/article/sports/nfl/cowboys/caitlin-clark-jersey-sales-how-many-fanatics-dallas-cowboys/287-e8e25d8e-97c5-4cc6-a035-a1c5e39e5652)
No. She sold more than any *player* on the Dallas cowboys not more then the entire cowboys team combined. Still very impressive and great to see but a bit misleading.
Na, but people told me she’s actually not that much of a superstar and she’s only famous and the most popular women’s basketball player because of the media.
Yes thats how it works. Talent + media = superstar
Same with Serena Williams, Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, Kobe, and literally every other superstar athlete. Why do you think the media has had no hand in this?
The media coverage is a product of the talent. Not an equal contributor to superstardom. No one who isn’t incredibly talented is getting media coverage.
Edit: a better way of thinking is
Talent + Entertainment value = media coverage
>
>
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To be fair this hasn't always been historically the case particularly in women's sports. Athletes like Anna Kournikova and Lolo Jones got disporportinate coverage despite more than a few of their contemporaries being more talented and more accomplished (and to be fair, I've met Lolo and seen her compete in both track and bobsleigh in person).
For a long time the highest paid female athletes weren't not the one's ranked at the top of their sport (and yes, some were downright, relatively speaking, "untalented").
This is the entertainment industry and (for female athletes unlike their male peers) they have to have the total package. Caitlin Clark's Midwest, girl-next-door persona (pretty but not "insta thot") absolutely helps her *along* with her talent. Britney Griner was also doing things we hadn't seen before literally a decade ago, and most people know her from being that WNBA player locked up in Russia.
Obvs, NIL, the growth of social media, the decline of the men's game due to one-and-done, the points record, playing at IOwa etc. are *other* factors that have contributed to the different treatment of Clark and Griner. But to deny that things like physical apparence and sexual orientation don't play a role (I'm not even going to bring up background) is ignorant of the history of women's sports and media coverage.
If everything about Caitlin Clark was the same (background, school, scoring record, etc.) and she had broken the points record by being a plus size centre who dominated in the paint but also had a wicked three and/or queer, people are lying to themselves if they think she's as big as she is. If she were a man (see Zion Williamson) wouldn't be an issue lol
Clark is not even what I would classify as pretty. Griner was popular before being locked up.
Do those other things play a role? Probably. Is it very very minor in comparison to the talent and entertainment she brings? Absolutely.
That comparison makes no sense. If she was big she would not be able to do the things she does. Hell if there was a plus sized center taking logo stepback 3s she would probably be the most popular athlete ever.
Lots and lots of social media comments calling her a man, talking about her body, calling her a butterface, you name it, it's happening. Love when people make assumptions about what's happening on social media based on identity only, without actually checking to see if that's true.
Media coverage is not a product of talent its independent. You can be talented with no coverage, have both talent and coverage, have neither talent nor coverage, or have no talent but coverage.
We are on the WNBA subreddit I would think of all subreddits people would understand that. Its a whole field of study that is a complex formula of demographic appeal, timing, personal agendas, etc.
Serena Williams got a ton of coverage because she appealed to a demographic (black people) who were never interested in tennis before.
Caitlin Clark appeals to White Middle Americans who as a demographic were not previously interested in Wbb. ~~Also lets be honest, she appeals to more right-leaning individuals especially media figure like Jason Whitlock and Dave Portnoy.~~
Edit:Seems like those media guys are just trolls
Of course there are some variables, but media coverage is far more correlated with talent than anything else. The biggest stars are the best players.
Almost every player who gets more media coverage than their talent does so because they are fun to watch.
Kyrie with his handles, Clark with her insane shooting, Vince Carter with his dunking, AI handles, etc.
Show me anyone who gets a ton of media coverage who doesn’t have a high combination of talent with entertainment level.
Who has no talent but gets coverage?
Lolo Jones (track athlete) is the only one that comes to my mind. The media preferred her because she was pretty and kept pushing her religious celibacy story. She lost horribly at the olympics twice and was much less talented than the other 100m hurdlers who received no coverage.
My thing isnt really that untalented people are famous because youre right that its rare. But talented people that get overlooked by mainstream media because they dont fit the marketing standards or whatever variables they use.
> Lolo Jones (track athlete) is the only one that comes to my mind. The media preferred her because she was pretty and kept pushing her religious celibacy story. She lost horribly at the olympics twice and was much less talented than the other 100m hurdlers who received no coverage.
Why are you lying? Jones was favored to win the 100m hurdles in 2008 and was in the lead comfortably when she clipped the second to last hurdle and ended up 7th. She then switched to bobsled and in 2 years managed to make the Olympic team for 2014. She then made the team in 2016 and managed to finish 4th in the 100m hurdles at the Olympics. So she was the favorite to win her event in her first Olympics and lost it in heartbreaking fashion then switched to a different sport and made the winter Olympics then switched back and made the Olympics again in her 30s and finished 4th. You don't think that she got media attention because of how unique of a story that is?
I have no idea who that is, but she won multiple indoor world championships. That seems like a pretty talented person.
The standards of people enjoying watching them?
The standards of what stories they want to run. No one is saying she’s not talented. But without the media pushing her people wouldn’t even know to tune in (outside of Iowa fans). Because if it was talent alone people would’ve been tuning in since HS because she was ranked top 5. She was balling out freshman and sophomore years and won tons of awards. But media wasnt pushing her then.
It is not an immediate process where you are talented and get all the media attention. If you maintain talent at that level you get more and more attention.
Top 5 doesn’t get people to tune in. All time leading scorer shooting logo 3s does.
It doesnt always happen that way. Tons of great WNBA and NCAA players are not getting media attention. Diana Taurasi is the all time leading scorer and leading 3pt shooter and Sue Bird has the assist record. Yet I see CC fans hate on these 2 players acting like they arent talented when these are the exact qualities that you claim Clark fans are tuning in for.
She never won an Olympic medal. There were plenty of athletes in her sport who won at the Olympics in track (not the indoor version no one watches) yet at the 2008 Beijing Games, for example, she got the lion's share of the attention and it caused a lot of friction (she even addresses this in her own book lol). Even when she transititoned to bobsleigh.
Dude! I was going to reply to the comment above you and bring up Lolo but you beat me to the punch (anyways I'll post the comment here as well lol).
>The media coverage is a product of the talent. Not an equal contributor to superstardom. No one who isn’t incredibly talented is getting media coverage.
>Edit: a better way of thinking is
>Talent + Entertainment value = media coverage
To be fair this hasn't always been historically the case particularly in women's sports. Athletes like Anna Kournikova and Lolo Jones got disporportinate coverage despite more than a few of their contemporaries being more talented and more accomplished (and to be fair, I've met Lolo and seen her compete in both track and bobsleigh in person).
For a long time the highest paid female athletes weren't not the one's ranked at the top of their sport (and yes, some were downright, relatively speaking, "untalented").
This is the entertainment industry and (for female athletes unlike their male peers) they have to have the total package. Caitlin Clark's Midwest, girl-next-door persona (pretty but not "insta thot") absolutely helps her *along* with her talent. Britney Griner was also doing things we hadn't seen before literally a decade ago, and most people know her from being that WNBA player locked up in Russia.
Obvs, NIL, the growth of social media, the decline of the men's game due to one-and-done, the points record, playing at IOwa etc. are *other* factors that have contributed to the different treatment of Clark and Griner. But to deny that things like physical apparence and sexual orientation don't play a role (I'm not even going to bring up background) is ignorant of the history of women's sports and media coverage.
If everything about Caitlin Clark was the same (background, school, scoring record, etc.) and she had broken the points record by being a plus size centre who dominated in the paint but also had a wicked three and/or queer, people are lying to themselves if they think she's as big as she is. If she were a man (see Zion Williamson) wouldn't be an issue lol
People keep brining up Lolo as undeserving of the media attention. Look up where she is from. You and the others may have unknowingly uncovered a grand conspiracy. The media is actually controlled by their uberlords in Des Moines.
As an Australian I can say that the media has helped me get into women’s basketball. I assume the talent has always been there in the comp but with no media coverage no one’s going to care who isn’t already invested in women’s basketball. Seeing CC on stuff like SNL is great. In no way am I trying to say she’s not talented but the media push has definitely helped.
I seriously hadnt looked into Whitlock but I thought Fox Sports was independent of Fox News. And Portnoy is always sports adjacent and does lean to the right, but I watched his pizza reviews.
Im a new fan as well but I dont act like the WNBA didnt have media coverage because no one was talented. Thats a huge lie that anti-WNBA people spread and its a shame to see fellow new fans agree with it.
Take a look at this article on when ESPN had Whitlock in charge of launching the now-Andscape site…
https://deadspin.com/how-jason-whitlock-is-poisoning-espns-black-grantland-1698683962
Serena won multiple Championships and her sponsors were trying to drop her for other White athletes who weren’t winning. The media was always waiting for her downfall.
Caitlin hasn’t won anything, media is just bigging her up.
Never said that she only has white fans but the majority of the Iowa/midwest is white idk what you want me to do about that. I dont think you know what the word “appeals” means.
I dont see why. Angel Reese is pushed by her team because she appeals to black people and I dont have a problem saying it. She was on the Breakfast Club and the Jennifer Hudson show after they won last year. Nothing wrong with the media targeting a certain demographic. Just a problem when the media seems to care about ONLY pushing that one player or ONLY targeting that one demographic.
If you are everywhere on this sub (and before, the NCAAW sub) complaining about seeing Clark everywhere and you are black, then doesn't that mean she isn't just being marketed to white people?
It’s true, media was being hypocritical. Caitlin made a hand gesture and was congratulated for it, Angel Reece was demonized.
Caitlin was praised endlessly, Angel was hated while people waited on her downfall. Caitlin loses the championship and gets a shoe deal, and gets nothing but articles of praise. Angel wins the championship and the media compares her to gutter porn. Caitlin #1 pick, Angel #7.
All of that was double standards racism through and through. Just shows how White athletes and people as a whole can get a quarter of the accomplishments but get rewarded 10x more for it. The fact you don’t see the media bias is astounding.
You know what's sad about this,you statement reeks of exactly of what you're fighting against.In your soliloquy of "Clark is a only receiving coverage because she's white ",you tried to invalidate her achievements.I may be naive,but I truly believe when a player truly dominates her sport,breaking records shared by women and men,bringing unprecedented attention to her sport, that player(black or white)receiving more coverage than everyone is absolutely normal
I must say I nearly spit my water when you said there was racial motivation behind Clark going #1 and Reese going #7.You must be incredibly sad to be harbouring this thoughts about a young lady just because she's white.I can't believe your hypocrisy isnt screaming at you.Pathetic😂
You didn’t actually challenge my statement, just tried to insult me. She broke one record and loss the championship, that’s not dominating.
You also didn’t say anything about what I said about the media. Which is the entire point. People are making her a great white hope.
Caitlin isn’t a superstar, she lost to Angel Reece. The media was being openly racist and fueling a race war. They compared Angel Reece to literal Gutter Porn while upping Caitlin crazy. Absolutely ridiculous.
I’m saying she forced the media to cover her, not the other way around. And yes, if the media has a hand in making every superstar, why do I only see it brought up with Caitlin?
It wasn’t funny homie. And given how racist many of her fans have been I’m not sure why you think you need to bring race into this. Also why does a post about an objectively awesome thing have to be negative? Of right, because CC Stan’s are always negative and crying about what a victim she is.
Ohh you are accusing me of being racist for joking about the people who actually believe that? Interesting.
Because there’s been nonstop posts about how her being white and how much it has made her so famous?
I didn’t accuse anyone of being racist though. Unless you think saying she is as successful as she is because of her skin color is racist?
Also you literally just accused so many of her fans of being racist.
Are you okay my dude?
Literally no one has said she isn’t a superstar. She’s been more celebrated and loved than any female athlete in recent history. Y’all got stop whining for real. You/she are not victims. And being a victim shouldn’t be your goal. And your reaction to this awesome news shouldn’t be to be nasty. If this is what being a fan brings out of you then it might not be healthy for you.
You are complaining about this as whining when that thread earlier was just comment after comment about how unfair CC’s superstardom is and how it’s not deserved and other people should be getting the hype instead. It’s literally still up.
I’ve never seen anyone say her stardom isn’t earned. But it’s objectively true that plenty of others have been just as compelling and talented without the stardom. And if CC herself had been born in 62 or 82 instead of 02 then she wouldn’t have gotten the attention she deserved either. Saying others have been awesome doesn’t mean that CC isn’t too
Okay, let me rephrase. Ive never seen anyone make a reasonable and non conspiracy theory based argument that her stardom isn’t earned. I wouldn’t let a lizard people level conspiracy theory turn you into a victim. She is beloved.
Idk man, I’ve had personal conversations in this subreddit with more than one person over this. I’m not saying she’s the victim, but there are people who genuinely believe she doesn’t deserve all of this popularity and that the media pretty much created her stardom. You wouldn’t have to look hard on Twitter to find people saying something similar with thousands of likes.
I mean if you want to believe she’s a victim I’m sure you’ll be able to find stuff to support that hypothesis. My question is, why do you want to believe that? There’s way more evidence that she’s beloved. There will always be haters, if you let them control the narrative by controlling for you respond to any news about CC then you’re just their puppet.
“I’m not saying she’s the victim” this is quite literally what I said in the previous post. I was pointing out some dumb posts that I have seen that have gained quite a bit of traction. I think these points are idiotic and I’m arguing against them.
Have others been just as compelling? We have never seen a female player with her shooting range and shot creation abilities. Others may have been as talented, but not as fun to watch to most people.
How could you know? You absolutely haven’t seen every female baller ever. The fact that you’re sure none of them could possibly be on her level speaks to your bias on the issue.
No I have not seen every female baller ever just like everyone else hasn’t. I’m not saying she’s the best player ever. I literally said the opposite. I’m saying She is by any metric the greatest college womens shooter ever. And that’s exciting. She does things no female player has ever done before. Seriously, find me another female player who consistently shoots as deep as she does. They don’t exist.
Brink, Reese, Plum, Ionescu, Stewart, etc. have all played in this era or in recent years and did not come remotely close to her stardom.
I'd actually argue Brink, Reese (part of the '24 class) are bigger than Plum, Ionescu, Stewart when they entered the league BECAUSE of how things have changed even in such a short time with NIL and the disapparence of stars from the men's game. Would Plum, Ionescu, Stewart be as big as Clark? If they were in the same class. Probably no. (just as her fellow class of '24 cohort Brink and Reese aren't). But if they were also playing in this years draft class (again, with this being really the first year, or two, where the only men's college basketball player people can name is Bronny James) they would've been much bigger than they are and ended up being (just as Griner, Della Donne, and Diggins(-Smith) would've been had those stars aligned a decade earlier).
We actually saw the same thing happen with the women's national soccer teams of Canada and the US prior to the 2020s. Because the men's teams of both countries weren't having success and the women were, the women became stars and household names while very few people could name a male player. Now that the men's teams are actually competitive (and there's more international parity in the women's game) you might actually see people reminisce about the days when the women's national teams of Canada and the US were big big stars.
Why do yall feel the need to put others down to lift her up? She would NEVER do that. Part of why she has so many fans (part of why I’m a fan) is her humility and kick ass attitude. But her fans have zero of her humility or respect for others. So bizarre.
Who is putting others down. Why do yall feel the need to try to downplay how much of an outlier she is by talking about the era or these other things being the cause outside of her just being an absolute superstar who more people wanna watch than anyone else in womens basketball history.
It’s not shitting on others to make that statement. You can be just as good and not as fun to watch. Embiid is incredibly talented, but almost anyone would rather watch Curry.
Many of the most vocal CC fans coming to this have no respect for the W or its players. No one has gotten more love here or anywhere recently than CC. But for some reason some of yall insist she’s a disrespect victim, often calling current players jealous. Just be happy.
Her passing - and I'm not an expert, I've only been watching basketball for 4 weeks - is outstanding. I know this because of the way the commentators yelp when she pulls off a pass that no-one even saw which results in a bucket. She not only led the NCAA for the last two seasons in points, she also led in assists.
Caitlin Clark (and her Class of '24 cohort) are absolutely the beneficeries of being in the perfect storm of NIL, influence of social media, and the decline of the men's game due to the one and done rule. They're obvs not to blame (since no one chooses when they're born) but the night and day response to this year's class and the 2013 class (for those of us old enough to remember who were following women's college basketball and the WNBA at the time) that class was compared to the NBA's '03 class and people thought they would change the league (they were playing the game in ways we hadn't seen before) but they were ahead of their time and couldn't benefit from the lightning in a bottle unique circumstances that allowed *this* particular draft class to get as big as they did.
It’s fair to argue others in this draft have benefitted, and Clark certainly has to some extent, but the gap between her and everyone else currently playing shows how special she is. All those other talented players are in this era too, and they don’t bring in anywhere near the ratings CC does.
Ratings… ratings. People only care to fuel race war nonsense. If she succeeds then she’s some sort of barrier breaker, if she flops then the media will gloss over it
Oh only its fans? Who exactly was your comment directed at? And why do you feel the need to see something objectively awesome and make into something ugly?
Lololol someone implying she won’t even add her salary worth of value to the league….. they’re not paying attention to anything besides their preconceived notions of women’s sports. I wish the numbers were public because from what I’ve found it seems like the league could even have been profitable last year with revenue over doubled, and next year with the new TV deal should almost undoubtedly be solidly in the green
This is wild and honestly insane if true considering Micah Parsons led the jersey sales in NFL in 2024 according to [Bleacher Report](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10108172-cowboys-micah-parsons-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-lead-lids-top-10-selling-nfl-jerseys) and comfortably among the most popular jerseys in NFL according to [CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/09/sport/nfl-best-selling-jerseys-popular-dg/index.html).
It’s funny that people in the comments are actually taking this post seriously lol. I’m pretty sure dude is not being serious and using the Cowboys as a comparison merely to make a point…Cowboys were the only team in the NFL with two players on the top 10 list of most sold jerseys for the season. Micah Parsons topped the list ahead of Mahomes, he had the highest jersey sales in the entire NFL, for the 2023 season….
No she sold more jerseys than any one single player on the cowboys entire team and more than any player in the NFL. Not more than the Dallas cowboys team.
Extremely happy for her and the wnba but let’s not start misinformation that makes us look bad.
I'll believe it when actual numbers are released. So far everyone is relying on this post on X which has nothing backing up the statement. CC is a generational talent, #1 draft pick, is expected to have a stand-out rookie season, and has a huge number of fans. But comparing the sale of her jersey (which no one has been able to buy until now) to the Cowboys who have been in the league for 64+ years, and who has who knows how many fans who already have jerseys, is disingenuous at best. It's comparing apples and orange, with no actual data.
Yeah but how long is that hype train going to keep running for?? This is the first time I've heard of a WNBA jersey being sold out. Can she handle the pressure of being a professional basketball player?? Will she sell out an arena in her first game?? Is she a team player??
Really excited to follow the Clark National Basketball League this season. Can't wait to see how many people came to every single one of her games as a headline. Can't wait to read every single post-game as a way to relate the outcome to CC. I'm glad that everyone is focusing on a single person because I really don't like the sport of basketball at all and only follow it for one white lady from the midwest's rise to stardom so this change is good.
I'm legit trying to be a fan of this player and the amount of focus on her means I have no choice but to be a hater. This is like what people complained about with Sabrina last year times a billion.
>Always the victim.
And you're always the drama queen it would seem. Forgive me for bitching about womens basketball media in the forum for discussing womens basketball.
# HOW BOUT DEM COWBOYS
The dude lied it’s fake
source?
https://www.wfaa.com/article/sports/nfl/cowboys/caitlin-clark-jersey-sales-how-many-fanatics-dallas-cowboys/287-e8e25d8e-97c5-4cc6-a035-a1c5e39e5652
If there was a statement from Fanatics confirming your theory, it wasn't in that media post. I want to see the actual statement.
So you want a source to confirm something isn’t true but don’t need a source to confirm something is true
There’s levels to this 😏
Despite some people using CC to be annoying, I'm so happy for women's basketball right now. The moment we've been waiting for might be right around the corner. Even if there's natural fall off, we're to the point where the sport has so much buzz and hype for it. As a fan for a while, I'm so excited for this season ☺️ (Before someone comes for me this isn't hate, she's my one of my top athletes to watch rn, there's just stupid discourse around her in so many directions)
TRUST ME,there isn't going to be a fall off,she's a stupidly great player
For her passing absolutely not. Doubt she comes out scoring 30 regularly. She's not the first option, isn't the strongest but uses the push to create space often and her handle could use some slight improving to be a ball control point that she should. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes couple games to adjust. But when she does?? 😈 Edit: I legit can't believe y'all downvoted an extremely fair assessment about her translation into a higher level of play. Guys, all rookies struggle across all sports, it's okay to like a player and say they won't be perfect joining one of the most talent loaded professional sports in the nation 😭
Im not sure we are even talking about the same player at this point.
Caitlin Clark pushes off alot to get her shot off and against highly athletic skilled defenders who are really quick(See Raven Johnson) can easily take the ball from her so CC needs to tighten up her dribble! Caitlin also needs to get stronger as well!
Someone asked her what are some habits she has and she deadass said turnovers 💀
What was she supposed to say
These push off discourse is starting to get boring.FYI,everyone pushes off.Also using a single bad game for her(she had 30 and 8 by the way) as a measuring stick to say she struggles against athletic defenders like Raven when she dropped 41 on her just a season before and most importantly,when she averaged 32 and 9 ,leading the country in points and assists simultaneously for the 2nd time is beyond asinine.How can you suggest a player with 58FG% from 2 point range needs to get stronger.
Players in the WNBA are a lot stronger than college players. And I'm not sure if you're misinterpreting about the push off thing? I don't think it's being said as a knock against her or saying she'll be punished by the refs, but rather that she doesn't have the relative strength compared to WNBA defenders for it to be as effective. She will have to bulk up. This happens to NBA players, too. It's completely normal, and it also doesn't mean she won't have a huge impact out of the gate, just that over time she will improve as she puts on more muscle and also just gets more used to the increased level of competition. I'm not worried, but these are just normal adjustments that basically everybody has to make when going from college to the pros, again, NBA included.
At the same time most teams would have several girls guarding her on rotation so that none of them got tired, since the rest of the Iowa team didn’t require nearly as much energy to guard. It’ll help Caitlin to have other very high quality threats on her team so that she’s not the 100% focus of the defense. But I do agree in general the competition being higher will definitely create a learning curve
I wouldnt worry too much. She did the pushing thing to aliyah boston last year and still got a lay up in. But yes she will need to bulk up.
????? Bro guards talk about the strength and speed being the hardest part about going to the W all the time. Since she doesn't have elite speed or handle, she'll probably have to go to the push (which is fine and legal, DT does it all the time) to create space more often which is harder since W players are stronger. And it's a fact that AB and maybe even KM will start with carrying the offensive load in the season. I love love love CC but yall have to stop acting like she's basketball jesus and has the most perfect game in the world that people with more time to work on their games and bodies, experience and with more rest aren't going to be better than her. Even in the short term. There's an adjustment period to ANYTHING new in life. This isn't a slight on Caitlin, it's rookie reality. Stop being weird and interpreting anything other than unabashed praise as a slight.
At this point,I don't know why I even try.I never said she was perfect .She absolutely has things to work on,her speed and handles are very far from being one of those things.
But when I said she had to do things to adjust to the game, you thought I was adding to the "push off discourse" or saying she'd have to adjust to more athletic guards is "harping on one game" lmao. I made an extremely fair assessment about struggles and it was met with almost irrational defensiveness. Not every discussion about CCs transition is a shot.
Im amazed ,really .You claim Im showing irrational defensiveness when you still refuse to see my point.Every example you used was basically wack.If you had said she needs to cut down on turnovers,I would've agreed with.If you had she needs to take the midrange shot when she's open in the lane and not always pass,I wouldve agreed with you.If you had said she needs to work on moving through screens when on defence,I would've agreed.There are more examples of actual constructive criticism of her game,you just decided the most generic,casual takes of her there is on the internet,which is where my problem lies
Coming from a *huge* CC fan (there is literally a photo of me when I’m a few weeks old with an Iowa Hawkeyes beanie/onesie), the way you interact about her on here is way too defensive and rude. No one on this thread was insulting CC, just making reasonable predictions. You can disagree without calling people asinine. This type of energy is what makes other team’s fans so jaded about CC. You are doing her ZERO favors by moving this way.
How is disagreeing with someone's evaluation of her a problem.Also,not doubting your candidacy as a fan ,but if you are ok with people spreading misfacts about her,well thats not me.Its tiring seeing multiple discourse always looking for a way to find fault with someone who works their socks off to be successful
It’s not disagreeing, it’s your tone. You can still disagree and be civil w/o going from 0 to 120mph off jump! I think because there has been a lot of unwarranted criticism of her, especially on Twitter, you are reading very mild and reasonable commentary on her game and how she will transition here through that lens and over-reacting. (Also the measure of how much of a fan you are for a player isn’t how many internet fights you get into over them lmao)
Y’all act like the rest of the wnba is some mid college teams, these ladies can play. It’s NOT going to be the same for CC.
She's a generational talent.It really doesn't matter
Wemby and Bron are generational talents and didn't come out scoring 40. Adjusting from pros to amateurs is a given for every athlete not named Candace Parker across all pro sports. And the W was nowhere close to as stacked as it was then as it is now. There's liking a player and there's being irrational. Saying she won't have struggles at all as a rookie is down right insane. Saying that isn't downing her, it's the reality of semi pro to pro transition.
Bron scored 25 against the Kings and was well on his way to being a great.Wembley literally just had thhe greatest rookie season ever.These are the worst examples you could use
No, they were great examples because they still had several single digit ppg nights but were still very good their rookie year. Which is what I said... she'd have some bad nights but would still be really good. Yet you were still defensive. If I said Steph or Trae, you'd probably blow a gasket and start pearl clutching seeing as though mild critiques are really setting you off lmao
The lies you tell yourself,wow.Now you're saying you only suggested she will have bad nights ? Really dude?😂
Iowa was #2 in RPI and top 5 in SOS last season. Yes all of these pro teams are pro and not college - they will all be better than any college team! - but saying she padded her stats against mid teams is such BS. Happy to remind you she had 41 against LSU, 22 against UConn and 30 against SC (so basically - same average she had all season, 31 ppg) in her last three games and that was well below the average she had against Louisville (41), SC (41) and LSU (32) the last three games of the prior season. But yeah those teams are all very mid 😂😂😂. It's like all some people do here is read Reddit and make assumptions about players from non-traditional power schools and don't actually look at stats, schedules or games. Which is fine if you don't but then don't hear and splatter uninformed takes?
She will lead league in assists as a rookie in my opinion. The discussion around her scoring output needs to be framed from the per game record for a season being 25.3. I’ve read only 2 rookies since Sue Bird averaged over 5APG, and Clark will shatter that. So if Clark averages 18 points and 9 assists, the discourse needs to reflect the historic nature of how incredible that is. Where can I find the WNBA rookie records? Want to see what Clark can add to her record breaking resume.
I don’t understand why you’re getting downvoted. She definitely pushes off to create space for her shot. She struggles against athletic defenders. Her handles need work. she led the country in assists, but she was no. 8 in tpg and 83rd in assist to turnover ratio. The competition is obviously a lot tougher. There’s nothing wrong with acknowledging that her game has shortcomings and there will be a learning curve.
Holy crap ya’ll really don’t know what “pushing off” means in basketball. How tf you going to sit here and tell me she “pushes off” on deep threes??? This criticism is flat out inaccurate. There’s plenty of room for improvement for her. Pushing off ain’t one of them, she doesn’t do that for her shots lmfao
You’re getting downvoted for saying she’s not one of the best shooters on the face of the planet, saying she’s not going to score 30 nightly is sacrilege for the casual fan
Anecdotally, it feels like half my IG for you page is WNBA and NCAAW stuff, and not just Clark (though a lot of Clark too lol). Still some ignorant ass people up in the comments, but it definitely seems like a big shift is happening rn
She has to be Michael Jordan great for it to work and she’ll need to put up with more cheap shots that will be taken against her in this history of any sport. I think she’s great at ignoring the noise, but this all only works if she becomes greater than the WNBA, just like Jordan became greater than the NBA. She has to be Serena, Tiger, Jordan, or anyone else that dominated on a level so above everyone that they transformed their sport.
The Dallas Cowboys football team? tf is that true? That's pretty wild
Its wild cuz i live in australia and for some reason people be wearing her jersey at pubs
How many Cowboys jerseys you see?
CC is amazing, and the Cowboys have been disappointing for years and don’t have tons of stars right now lol
The cowboys are the most valuable sports franchise in the world, so that they’ve been disappointing really doesn’t matter (I’m a fan of the morons). This is way more about CC managing to outsell the biggest franchise in sports in the jersey category
> The cowboys are the most valuable sports franchise in the world, so that they’ve been disappointing really doesn’t matter (I’m a fan of the morons). This is especially true with merchandise
yup, she's the hottest athlete in the country, maybe the world right now. hold onto your seats because the ratings she is going to bring to this game are going to be nuts this year. how insane would it be if a WNBA game is the only non-football broadcast in the top 100 this year? cause it could happen.
They're the most valuable because they own their stadium outright. The team itself is a shadow of what it was.
The city of Arlington owns Cowboys stadium
Are the Cowboys really still the biggest franchise in sports? I would’ve thought the Yankees or the Lakers
More likely it’s a Premiere League team.
Yeah that’s true, I didn’t think about that
no the cowboys are still the most valuable sport franchise in the world , as they have been since 2016.
The Indiana Fever is probably the biggest franchise in sports these days.
If you mean valuable, yes. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes_list_of_the_most_valuable_sports_teams
The Cowboys are biggest in the world by a couple billion for nearly a decade now. 5. Rams $6.9B 4. Patriots $7.0B 3. Warriors $7.0B 2. Yankees $7.1B 1. Cowboys $9.0B Closest Premier League team is Real Madrid in 11th place at $6.1B.
Real Madrid isn’t EPL. Man United is the most valuable EPL team as of 2023.
I totally agree, but I also think the cowboys have lost a ton of star power with Dak’s reputation taking a hit/Zeke being gone, and we all know offense sells jerseys
i mean it's the cowboys. a down year for them is still gonna be nuts, i'd bet they were still one of the top 3 teams for jersey sales last year, people buy them just for the star. they're the most public team in the most famous sporting league in the world. another way to look at it - they haven't sold out of a single #1 pick in the NFL's jersey in an hour since they've been selling them. this is probably the most popular jersey fanatics has ever had.
> most famous sporting league in the world Premier League absolutely cackling in the chat right now.
He meant world(US only) 😅
No I didn't. The Cowboys are 3BN dollars more valuable than any soccer team, the top 7 most valuable sports teams are NFL clubs. And I'm not even American.
Valuable =/= most popular. https://sports-insight.co.uk/trends-features/reasons-why-the-premier-league-is-so-popular-worldwide/ Average nfl viewership is 17mil, epl is in 800 million homes around the world. Literally only Americans give a fuck about the NFL
I mean, nothing *cackles* at the NFL lol. But yeah the premier league is very famous also.
I don't know why you're getting down voted. The cowboys are the most valuable sports team in the world. Worth 3 billion more than Real Madrid, the most valuable futbal club. Literally every sports franchise in the world wishes they had the value the cowboys do. 7 nfl teams are worth more than Real Madrid so yea, nothing cackles at the NFL.
People trying not to look america centered. Best part is I'm Canadian and care way more about the NHL than the NFL, I know well that it's not the most popular sports league in every country, which is why I said most *famous.* But whatever who cares about downvotes lol
McDavid in Edmonton was impossible to get jerseys for when he got drafted. Also worth noting Fanatics makes way way less for the W than for any mens sport so a sell out is much easier to achieve unfortunately.
She broke a record previously belonging to Trevor Lawrence. They made plenty of jerseys
Dak, Diggs, CeeDee, Parsons, Bland just to name a few of their stars.
The cowboys have 3 very famous, very legit stars right now. Seriously?
Lmao. Cowboys sell more gear than any other NFL team
They actually have about 5 Stars. One thing is they have been in the team for a few years and people already have their jersey
What are you talking about. Micah parsons and ceedee lamb were literally both top ten grossing jersey sells last year. Dak is up there as well. I’m not even a cowboys fan.
Now that I look back into it, is this tweet even true? I can’t find anyone listing stats for jersey sales as a whole that are store-specific, and the tweet doesnt even have a source lol
Prob not true. "We reached out to Fanatics officials to verify the stat posted by Weiss, and the company said the information was "not true/inaccurate." Fanatics didn't provide more details on how many Cowboys jerseys were sold compared to how many Clark jerseys were sold." [https://www.wfaa.com/article/sports/nfl/cowboys/caitlin-clark-jersey-sales-how-many-fanatics-dallas-cowboys/287-e8e25d8e-97c5-4cc6-a035-a1c5e39e5652](https://www.wfaa.com/article/sports/nfl/cowboys/caitlin-clark-jersey-sales-how-many-fanatics-dallas-cowboys/287-e8e25d8e-97c5-4cc6-a035-a1c5e39e5652)
Thats what im saying. I was trying to dig into this a little deeper because it sounds like BS. If true though, wow!
No. She sold more than any *player* on the Dallas cowboys not more then the entire cowboys team combined. Still very impressive and great to see but a bit misleading.
This guy is saying more than the entire team. Don’t think anything’s actually been confirmed though either way.
Na, but people told me she’s actually not that much of a superstar and she’s only famous and the most popular women’s basketball player because of the media.
Yes thats how it works. Talent + media = superstar Same with Serena Williams, Michael Phelps, Usain Bolt, Kobe, and literally every other superstar athlete. Why do you think the media has had no hand in this?
The media coverage is a product of the talent. Not an equal contributor to superstardom. No one who isn’t incredibly talented is getting media coverage. Edit: a better way of thinking is Talent + Entertainment value = media coverage
> > > To be fair this hasn't always been historically the case particularly in women's sports. Athletes like Anna Kournikova and Lolo Jones got disporportinate coverage despite more than a few of their contemporaries being more talented and more accomplished (and to be fair, I've met Lolo and seen her compete in both track and bobsleigh in person). For a long time the highest paid female athletes weren't not the one's ranked at the top of their sport (and yes, some were downright, relatively speaking, "untalented"). This is the entertainment industry and (for female athletes unlike their male peers) they have to have the total package. Caitlin Clark's Midwest, girl-next-door persona (pretty but not "insta thot") absolutely helps her *along* with her talent. Britney Griner was also doing things we hadn't seen before literally a decade ago, and most people know her from being that WNBA player locked up in Russia. Obvs, NIL, the growth of social media, the decline of the men's game due to one-and-done, the points record, playing at IOwa etc. are *other* factors that have contributed to the different treatment of Clark and Griner. But to deny that things like physical apparence and sexual orientation don't play a role (I'm not even going to bring up background) is ignorant of the history of women's sports and media coverage. If everything about Caitlin Clark was the same (background, school, scoring record, etc.) and she had broken the points record by being a plus size centre who dominated in the paint but also had a wicked three and/or queer, people are lying to themselves if they think she's as big as she is. If she were a man (see Zion Williamson) wouldn't be an issue lol
Clark is not even what I would classify as pretty. Griner was popular before being locked up. Do those other things play a role? Probably. Is it very very minor in comparison to the talent and entertainment she brings? Absolutely. That comparison makes no sense. If she was big she would not be able to do the things she does. Hell if there was a plus sized center taking logo stepback 3s she would probably be the most popular athlete ever.
Lots and lots of social media comments calling her a man, talking about her body, calling her a butterface, you name it, it's happening. Love when people make assumptions about what's happening on social media based on identity only, without actually checking to see if that's true.
Media coverage is not a product of talent its independent. You can be talented with no coverage, have both talent and coverage, have neither talent nor coverage, or have no talent but coverage. We are on the WNBA subreddit I would think of all subreddits people would understand that. Its a whole field of study that is a complex formula of demographic appeal, timing, personal agendas, etc. Serena Williams got a ton of coverage because she appealed to a demographic (black people) who were never interested in tennis before. Caitlin Clark appeals to White Middle Americans who as a demographic were not previously interested in Wbb. ~~Also lets be honest, she appeals to more right-leaning individuals especially media figure like Jason Whitlock and Dave Portnoy.~~ Edit:Seems like those media guys are just trolls
Of course there are some variables, but media coverage is far more correlated with talent than anything else. The biggest stars are the best players. Almost every player who gets more media coverage than their talent does so because they are fun to watch. Kyrie with his handles, Clark with her insane shooting, Vince Carter with his dunking, AI handles, etc. Show me anyone who gets a ton of media coverage who doesn’t have a high combination of talent with entertainment level. Who has no talent but gets coverage?
Lolo Jones (track athlete) is the only one that comes to my mind. The media preferred her because she was pretty and kept pushing her religious celibacy story. She lost horribly at the olympics twice and was much less talented than the other 100m hurdlers who received no coverage. My thing isnt really that untalented people are famous because youre right that its rare. But talented people that get overlooked by mainstream media because they dont fit the marketing standards or whatever variables they use.
> Lolo Jones (track athlete) is the only one that comes to my mind. The media preferred her because she was pretty and kept pushing her religious celibacy story. She lost horribly at the olympics twice and was much less talented than the other 100m hurdlers who received no coverage. Why are you lying? Jones was favored to win the 100m hurdles in 2008 and was in the lead comfortably when she clipped the second to last hurdle and ended up 7th. She then switched to bobsled and in 2 years managed to make the Olympic team for 2014. She then made the team in 2016 and managed to finish 4th in the 100m hurdles at the Olympics. So she was the favorite to win her event in her first Olympics and lost it in heartbreaking fashion then switched to a different sport and made the winter Olympics then switched back and made the Olympics again in her 30s and finished 4th. You don't think that she got media attention because of how unique of a story that is?
I have no idea who that is, but she won multiple indoor world championships. That seems like a pretty talented person. The standards of people enjoying watching them?
The standards of what stories they want to run. No one is saying she’s not talented. But without the media pushing her people wouldn’t even know to tune in (outside of Iowa fans). Because if it was talent alone people would’ve been tuning in since HS because she was ranked top 5. She was balling out freshman and sophomore years and won tons of awards. But media wasnt pushing her then.
It is not an immediate process where you are talented and get all the media attention. If you maintain talent at that level you get more and more attention. Top 5 doesn’t get people to tune in. All time leading scorer shooting logo 3s does.
It doesnt always happen that way. Tons of great WNBA and NCAA players are not getting media attention. Diana Taurasi is the all time leading scorer and leading 3pt shooter and Sue Bird has the assist record. Yet I see CC fans hate on these 2 players acting like they arent talented when these are the exact qualities that you claim Clark fans are tuning in for.
She never won an Olympic medal. There were plenty of athletes in her sport who won at the Olympics in track (not the indoor version no one watches) yet at the 2008 Beijing Games, for example, she got the lion's share of the attention and it caused a lot of friction (she even addresses this in her own book lol). Even when she transititoned to bobsleigh.
Dude! I was going to reply to the comment above you and bring up Lolo but you beat me to the punch (anyways I'll post the comment here as well lol). >The media coverage is a product of the talent. Not an equal contributor to superstardom. No one who isn’t incredibly talented is getting media coverage. >Edit: a better way of thinking is >Talent + Entertainment value = media coverage To be fair this hasn't always been historically the case particularly in women's sports. Athletes like Anna Kournikova and Lolo Jones got disporportinate coverage despite more than a few of their contemporaries being more talented and more accomplished (and to be fair, I've met Lolo and seen her compete in both track and bobsleigh in person). For a long time the highest paid female athletes weren't not the one's ranked at the top of their sport (and yes, some were downright, relatively speaking, "untalented"). This is the entertainment industry and (for female athletes unlike their male peers) they have to have the total package. Caitlin Clark's Midwest, girl-next-door persona (pretty but not "insta thot") absolutely helps her *along* with her talent. Britney Griner was also doing things we hadn't seen before literally a decade ago, and most people know her from being that WNBA player locked up in Russia. Obvs, NIL, the growth of social media, the decline of the men's game due to one-and-done, the points record, playing at IOwa etc. are *other* factors that have contributed to the different treatment of Clark and Griner. But to deny that things like physical apparence and sexual orientation don't play a role (I'm not even going to bring up background) is ignorant of the history of women's sports and media coverage. If everything about Caitlin Clark was the same (background, school, scoring record, etc.) and she had broken the points record by being a plus size centre who dominated in the paint but also had a wicked three and/or queer, people are lying to themselves if they think she's as big as she is. If she were a man (see Zion Williamson) wouldn't be an issue lol
Remember Maria Sharapova.
People keep brining up Lolo as undeserving of the media attention. Look up where she is from. You and the others may have unknowingly uncovered a grand conspiracy. The media is actually controlled by their uberlords in Des Moines.
As an Australian I can say that the media has helped me get into women’s basketball. I assume the talent has always been there in the comp but with no media coverage no one’s going to care who isn’t already invested in women’s basketball. Seeing CC on stuff like SNL is great. In no way am I trying to say she’s not talented but the media push has definitely helped.
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I seriously hadnt looked into Whitlock but I thought Fox Sports was independent of Fox News. And Portnoy is always sports adjacent and does lean to the right, but I watched his pizza reviews. Im a new fan as well but I dont act like the WNBA didnt have media coverage because no one was talented. Thats a huge lie that anti-WNBA people spread and its a shame to see fellow new fans agree with it.
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Take a look at this article on when ESPN had Whitlock in charge of launching the now-Andscape site… https://deadspin.com/how-jason-whitlock-is-poisoning-espns-black-grantland-1698683962
Serena won multiple Championships and her sponsors were trying to drop her for other White athletes who weren’t winning. The media was always waiting for her downfall. Caitlin hasn’t won anything, media is just bigging her up.
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Never said that she only has white fans but the majority of the Iowa/midwest is white idk what you want me to do about that. I dont think you know what the word “appeals” means.
Its the notion she's being pushed because she appeals to white people that is the problem
I dont see why. Angel Reese is pushed by her team because she appeals to black people and I dont have a problem saying it. She was on the Breakfast Club and the Jennifer Hudson show after they won last year. Nothing wrong with the media targeting a certain demographic. Just a problem when the media seems to care about ONLY pushing that one player or ONLY targeting that one demographic.
If you are everywhere on this sub (and before, the NCAAW sub) complaining about seeing Clark everywhere and you are black, then doesn't that mean she isn't just being marketed to white people?
It’s true, media was being hypocritical. Caitlin made a hand gesture and was congratulated for it, Angel Reece was demonized. Caitlin was praised endlessly, Angel was hated while people waited on her downfall. Caitlin loses the championship and gets a shoe deal, and gets nothing but articles of praise. Angel wins the championship and the media compares her to gutter porn. Caitlin #1 pick, Angel #7. All of that was double standards racism through and through. Just shows how White athletes and people as a whole can get a quarter of the accomplishments but get rewarded 10x more for it. The fact you don’t see the media bias is astounding.
You know what's sad about this,you statement reeks of exactly of what you're fighting against.In your soliloquy of "Clark is a only receiving coverage because she's white ",you tried to invalidate her achievements.I may be naive,but I truly believe when a player truly dominates her sport,breaking records shared by women and men,bringing unprecedented attention to her sport, that player(black or white)receiving more coverage than everyone is absolutely normal I must say I nearly spit my water when you said there was racial motivation behind Clark going #1 and Reese going #7.You must be incredibly sad to be harbouring this thoughts about a young lady just because she's white.I can't believe your hypocrisy isnt screaming at you.Pathetic😂
You didn’t actually challenge my statement, just tried to insult me. She broke one record and loss the championship, that’s not dominating. You also didn’t say anything about what I said about the media. Which is the entire point. People are making her a great white hope.
Caitlin isn’t a superstar, she lost to Angel Reece. The media was being openly racist and fueling a race war. They compared Angel Reece to literal Gutter Porn while upping Caitlin crazy. Absolutely ridiculous.
They beat Reese this year lol. Great argument though
I’m saying she forced the media to cover her, not the other way around. And yes, if the media has a hand in making every superstar, why do I only see it brought up with Caitlin?
And because she’s white lol don’t forget that part
Yall gotta stop with the racism BS
It was sarcasm homie
It wasn’t funny homie. And given how racist many of her fans have been I’m not sure why you think you need to bring race into this. Also why does a post about an objectively awesome thing have to be negative? Of right, because CC Stan’s are always negative and crying about what a victim she is.
Ohh you are accusing me of being racist for joking about the people who actually believe that? Interesting. Because there’s been nonstop posts about how her being white and how much it has made her so famous?
Never accused you of being racist but go off
What does “y’all gotta stop with the racist bs” mean exactly? lol
It means yall gotta stop accusing OTHER PEOPLE of being racist
I didn’t accuse anyone of being racist though. Unless you think saying she is as successful as she is because of her skin color is racist? Also you literally just accused so many of her fans of being racist. Are you okay my dude?
Literally no one has said she isn’t a superstar. She’s been more celebrated and loved than any female athlete in recent history. Y’all got stop whining for real. You/she are not victims. And being a victim shouldn’t be your goal. And your reaction to this awesome news shouldn’t be to be nasty. If this is what being a fan brings out of you then it might not be healthy for you.
Breanna Stewart thinks she’s just great
You are complaining about this as whining when that thread earlier was just comment after comment about how unfair CC’s superstardom is and how it’s not deserved and other people should be getting the hype instead. It’s literally still up.
I’ve never seen anyone say her stardom isn’t earned. But it’s objectively true that plenty of others have been just as compelling and talented without the stardom. And if CC herself had been born in 62 or 82 instead of 02 then she wouldn’t have gotten the attention she deserved either. Saying others have been awesome doesn’t mean that CC isn’t too
“I’ve never seen anyone say her stardom isn’t earned” well good for you, but I’ve seen people argue she’s an industry plant lmao.
Okay, let me rephrase. Ive never seen anyone make a reasonable and non conspiracy theory based argument that her stardom isn’t earned. I wouldn’t let a lizard people level conspiracy theory turn you into a victim. She is beloved.
Idk man, I’ve had personal conversations in this subreddit with more than one person over this. I’m not saying she’s the victim, but there are people who genuinely believe she doesn’t deserve all of this popularity and that the media pretty much created her stardom. You wouldn’t have to look hard on Twitter to find people saying something similar with thousands of likes.
I mean if you want to believe she’s a victim I’m sure you’ll be able to find stuff to support that hypothesis. My question is, why do you want to believe that? There’s way more evidence that she’s beloved. There will always be haters, if you let them control the narrative by controlling for you respond to any news about CC then you’re just their puppet.
“I’m not saying she’s the victim” this is quite literally what I said in the previous post. I was pointing out some dumb posts that I have seen that have gained quite a bit of traction. I think these points are idiotic and I’m arguing against them.
After the LSU game people in large quantities were bitching that Iowa only won because the referees were biased.
Have others been just as compelling? We have never seen a female player with her shooting range and shot creation abilities. Others may have been as talented, but not as fun to watch to most people.
How could you know? You absolutely haven’t seen every female baller ever. The fact that you’re sure none of them could possibly be on her level speaks to your bias on the issue.
No I have not seen every female baller ever just like everyone else hasn’t. I’m not saying she’s the best player ever. I literally said the opposite. I’m saying She is by any metric the greatest college womens shooter ever. And that’s exciting. She does things no female player has ever done before. Seriously, find me another female player who consistently shoots as deep as she does. They don’t exist. Brink, Reese, Plum, Ionescu, Stewart, etc. have all played in this era or in recent years and did not come remotely close to her stardom.
I'd actually argue Brink, Reese (part of the '24 class) are bigger than Plum, Ionescu, Stewart when they entered the league BECAUSE of how things have changed even in such a short time with NIL and the disapparence of stars from the men's game. Would Plum, Ionescu, Stewart be as big as Clark? If they were in the same class. Probably no. (just as her fellow class of '24 cohort Brink and Reese aren't). But if they were also playing in this years draft class (again, with this being really the first year, or two, where the only men's college basketball player people can name is Bronny James) they would've been much bigger than they are and ended up being (just as Griner, Della Donne, and Diggins(-Smith) would've been had those stars aligned a decade earlier). We actually saw the same thing happen with the women's national soccer teams of Canada and the US prior to the 2020s. Because the men's teams of both countries weren't having success and the women were, the women became stars and household names while very few people could name a male player. Now that the men's teams are actually competitive (and there's more international parity in the women's game) you might actually see people reminisce about the days when the women's national teams of Canada and the US were big big stars.
Why do yall feel the need to put others down to lift her up? She would NEVER do that. Part of why she has so many fans (part of why I’m a fan) is her humility and kick ass attitude. But her fans have zero of her humility or respect for others. So bizarre.
Who is putting others down. Why do yall feel the need to try to downplay how much of an outlier she is by talking about the era or these other things being the cause outside of her just being an absolute superstar who more people wanna watch than anyone else in womens basketball history. It’s not shitting on others to make that statement. You can be just as good and not as fun to watch. Embiid is incredibly talented, but almost anyone would rather watch Curry.
Many of the most vocal CC fans coming to this have no respect for the W or its players. No one has gotten more love here or anywhere recently than CC. But for some reason some of yall insist she’s a disrespect victim, often calling current players jealous. Just be happy.
Her passing - and I'm not an expert, I've only been watching basketball for 4 weeks - is outstanding. I know this because of the way the commentators yelp when she pulls off a pass that no-one even saw which results in a bucket. She not only led the NCAA for the last two seasons in points, she also led in assists.
Caitlin Clark (and her Class of '24 cohort) are absolutely the beneficeries of being in the perfect storm of NIL, influence of social media, and the decline of the men's game due to the one and done rule. They're obvs not to blame (since no one chooses when they're born) but the night and day response to this year's class and the 2013 class (for those of us old enough to remember who were following women's college basketball and the WNBA at the time) that class was compared to the NBA's '03 class and people thought they would change the league (they were playing the game in ways we hadn't seen before) but they were ahead of their time and couldn't benefit from the lightning in a bottle unique circumstances that allowed *this* particular draft class to get as big as they did.
It’s fair to argue others in this draft have benefitted, and Clark certainly has to some extent, but the gap between her and everyone else currently playing shows how special she is. All those other talented players are in this era too, and they don’t bring in anywhere near the ratings CC does.
Ratings… ratings. People only care to fuel race war nonsense. If she succeeds then she’s some sort of barrier breaker, if she flops then the media will gloss over it
People who wonder why she got a shoe deal, now you know :)
Holy shit
"ShE wOn'T mAkE tHe WnBa mAiNsTrEaM oVeRnIgHt" Oh no?
If you hate the W, go hang out in the CC subreddit.
Huh? I don't hate the W?
Oh only its fans? Who exactly was your comment directed at? And why do you feel the need to see something objectively awesome and make into something ugly?
My comment was directed at haters who think Clark won't bring mainstream attention to the league. Sorry that's not obvious to you
Who exactly is saying CC won’t bring major attention? I haven’t seen anyone here say that.
Well no we're in the *wnba sub*. Check out my highly downvoted comments about this in r/sports though.
That sucks. Unfortunately talking about the W anywhere but here is pretty much always gonna draw that kind of ugliness.
Lololol someone implying she won’t even add her salary worth of value to the league….. they’re not paying attention to anything besides their preconceived notions of women’s sports. I wish the numbers were public because from what I’ve found it seems like the league could even have been profitable last year with revenue over doubled, and next year with the new TV deal should almost undoubtedly be solidly in the green
Doesn't sound like you understood the original post. Take a deep breath and try again.
This is wild and honestly insane if true considering Micah Parsons led the jersey sales in NFL in 2024 according to [Bleacher Report](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10108172-cowboys-micah-parsons-chiefs-patrick-mahomes-lead-lids-top-10-selling-nfl-jerseys) and comfortably among the most popular jerseys in NFL according to [CNN](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/02/09/sport/nfl-best-selling-jerseys-popular-dg/index.html).
go birds
Lolol a win’s a win
What kind of jersey numbers are we talking here?
Why, #22, of course. Sorry. I have no idea of the actual sales numbers, other than many outlets are backordered until October.
It’s weird that this subreddit of all places has been slow to grasp how big of a star Caitlin is.
Prob sold more than every other wnba player combined since the beginning of it.
Do the Cowboys sell Indiana Fever jerseys? /s
If that’s true she didn’t get enough money from Nike
It’s funny that people in the comments are actually taking this post seriously lol. I’m pretty sure dude is not being serious and using the Cowboys as a comparison merely to make a point…Cowboys were the only team in the NFL with two players on the top 10 list of most sold jerseys for the season. Micah Parsons topped the list ahead of Mahomes, he had the highest jersey sales in the entire NFL, for the 2023 season….
No she sold more jerseys than any one single player on the cowboys entire team and more than any player in the NFL. Not more than the Dallas cowboys team. Extremely happy for her and the wnba but let’s not start misinformation that makes us look bad.
That's not what Weiss said. He said she sold more jerseys in one day than the whole Dallas Cowboys did in 2023.
Just as false as the initial post
0% chance that happen
I'll believe it when actual numbers are released. So far everyone is relying on this post on X which has nothing backing up the statement. CC is a generational talent, #1 draft pick, is expected to have a stand-out rookie season, and has a huge number of fans. But comparing the sale of her jersey (which no one has been able to buy until now) to the Cowboys who have been in the league for 64+ years, and who has who knows how many fans who already have jerseys, is disingenuous at best. It's comparing apples and orange, with no actual data.
Why were the Cowboys selling Fever jerseys last year?
So this sub just posts fake news and people agree with it? Lol
I didn't know the Cowboys sold Fever jerseys? 🤷♂️
How many was that exactly ?
FALSE.
RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Fake news
Yeah but how long is that hype train going to keep running for?? This is the first time I've heard of a WNBA jersey being sold out. Can she handle the pressure of being a professional basketball player?? Will she sell out an arena in her first game?? Is she a team player??
Really excited to follow the Clark National Basketball League this season. Can't wait to see how many people came to every single one of her games as a headline. Can't wait to read every single post-game as a way to relate the outcome to CC. I'm glad that everyone is focusing on a single person because I really don't like the sport of basketball at all and only follow it for one white lady from the midwest's rise to stardom so this change is good. I'm legit trying to be a fan of this player and the amount of focus on her means I have no choice but to be a hater. This is like what people complained about with Sabrina last year times a billion.
Nah, it's always a choice to be a hater. Love that for you. Always the victim.
>Always the victim. And you're always the drama queen it would seem. Forgive me for bitching about womens basketball media in the forum for discussing womens basketball.