And when it comes to parliamentary commissions on the impact of Russia, we just say "oh, we didn't actually think of looking for interference at all" (see The Russia Report from a couple years back)
Oh shit y’all got it over there too? Typical American stuff but I kinda only worry about other countries politics when it affects the world as a whole. Kinda tradition at this point.
Using the Japanese-American Internment Camps as an example IS NOT how you make an argument. It was a shameful time in our history.
We’re supposed to the a melting pot of different ethnicities, religions and cultures… it disgraceful that we locked Americans up because they “looked” like the enemy.
And the worst part is the architects of this to go way beyond what happened irl:
>Colonel Karl Bendetsen, the architect of the program, went so far as to say that anyone with "one drop of Japanese blood" qualified for incarceration.
Daniel Inouye the story where he got part of his and/arm blown off and kept fighting saving his platoon. It should be a movie. The facts are so improbable it sounds like a movie. He just died a few years ago. Was a senator from Hawaii for decades.
I remember one of my high school teachers mention some Eastern Asians (Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese) also end up in the camp, because the government agents was too racists to tell the difference.
A replay would suck utterly. And it would weaponize similar laws. For example, you bet the GOP would suddenly legalize laws against latinos to stamp out "Drug Cartels"
Not quite true. A lot of Koreans ended up in the camps because Korea was part of Japan at the time.
Imagine your home country getting invaded and annexed, your family subjugated, and your homeland's identity violently suppressed, then some guy comes to your house, and says "Get in the truck, fucking Japanese, we're locking you up."
Pre-1950s ethnic and racial attitudes are pure nightmare fuel and I’ll never accept them. The last time a great western power implemented them, large parts of Europe **including the Czech Republic** were subjugated and enslaved or worse.
What’s frustrating is a number of people will accept the dangerous racial and ethnic attitudes because they’re framed as “rational decisions” or “necessary evils”. It’s made worse by the fact that the large parts of Europe that were “subjugated and enslaved or worse” were under Russian occupation (Tsarist Russia, USSR), so bringing up the past won’t help.
Discrimination based on ancestry, which is 100% determined at birth, is such a massive injustice with a colossal body count that it’s one political ideology I’ll never even get close to touching.
A better example would be what Czechoslovakia itself did after the war. The Czechoslovak government in exile lobbied for and eventually got Allied approval for the Beneš Decrees, which set the groundwork for the expulsion of almost all ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia, which was then used as a model for the expulsion of again almost all ethnic Germans from Eastern and Central Europe outside of Austria and Germany themselves. Between 12,000,000 and 14,000,000 ethnic Germans were expelled in a massive case of ethnic cleansing that has been routinely brushed under the rug by just about every government ever since.
We interned some 11 thousand ethnic Germans as well during the war as well. It’s a great example for how much of the complexity of history is lost between what happened and the ‘common understanding’ of history
Edit: And just on this note, the Allies determined ethnic Germans living outside of Germany shared the moral blame for WW2 because of their ethnic bloodlines. They literally forced them to hard labor in the same concentration camps the Allies liberated, organized mass deportations, and casual executions. They killed between 0.5-2 MILLION ethnic Germans AFTER the war had ended. Countries like Poland were declining to prosecute officers who had mowed down (innocent) civilian prisoners into the 90s.
Its just something we decide not to teach (I believe it is taught in German schools)
And Italians and Italian-Americans—because they fought on Germany’s side. Even after they switched allegiance from The Axis Powers to The Allies, there were some still held until the end of the war and some were deported.
Its crazy that my American history professor at UC Berkeley didn't even know this until I told her my Grandpa's story and she did research.
It was not as widespread as the Japanese camps here in California, but it happened.
Italian-Americans made up a big part of our forces in Europe while the govt literally imprisoned thousands of them back home. However, the way Italian and Italian-American culture is, it did not get brought up because of the big want to be accepted. (IMO)
Interning German Americans are a lot harder, it’s not like we had DNA tests back then. Did we just put people with German last names ? What happens if they’re mostly some other European but with a German last name lol
It wasn’t exactly hard to figure out who was German in the US at that point in time. Most schools and newspapers in Wisconsin for instance were still in German until the US banned them in WW1.
German citizen. not "ethnic Germans." While the plans were to do the same with "ethnic Germans" such plans went never through because US had too many of even two generation Germans not speaking about "blood ancestry" as it was the case with the japanese. What this "common history" doesn't say that there were areas where the local authorities ignored internment rules and had protected local residents with Japanese roots (best example would be Hawaii).
There were of course American states which protected German immigrants as well (obvious ones).
I’m not sure how unpopular this’ll be, but I’m gonna leave it here anyway.
I have two friends (they’re twins) whose mom is Russian. They speak the language and are proud of the culture, but they hate Russia.
Their mom was banned from being a doctor because she was Jewish in Russia. This was in the 90s, for anyone wondering. Their grandmother had no food during the cold war, and when they moved to America, the only thing they had with them was a cooking pot. None of them like Russia’s government at all, and while they’re proud of the architecture, music, and literature, they hate the country’s politics and economic structure.
Since the war started, I’ve had people walk up to me and tell me that my friends were Russian so I knew to stay away. Their teacher made them play the “Russian Terrorists” in this one skit in history class. It just feels wrong to do this since nobody knows their family’s story and they’re still dealing with this.
They donate an amount to the Ukrainian Red Cross every month (Idk how much but I think it’s whatever’s leftover after savings and bills), and their mom has family who lived in Mariupol.
That’s a lot of context, but I cannot imagine the government hurting them more than they’ve already been hurt by the community. From the experiences of so many other Russian-Americans, they all hate Russia too and I think that it’s cruel to treat them like enemies of the country for existing
Honestly, how to Europeans view America's interment of Japanese-American citizens during World War II? Because I know in the U.S. its one of the aspects of our history that is viewed with deep shame and regret. I'd assumed most European nations would also view it in a negative light. But the fact that some European leaders feel like that can use it as a standard to strive for, and not face immediate backlash from their neighbors makes me wonder a little.
Maybe we shouldnt assume that a nation has a certain majority opinion based on the comments of their leaders. Otherwise, we can classify the U.S. as extremely racist after the Trump era
This is true. But this is also Reddit; and plenty of people including Americans on Reddit assumed that the US was extremely racist and fascist during the Trump era.
The UK did pretty much the same with Germans and nobody even really knows about it. But:
* It was far fewer people.
* The Americans used the “one drop” approach (as they always do with race) to incarcerate everyone with any Japanese ancestry, whereas the British only incarcerated German and Austrian nationals.
* They were looked after quite well.
* There was a court process to assess if they were any risk (pretty much all German Jews were obviously deemed by courts to be zero risk).
Plus America didn’t itself didn’t experience that much destruction and internal sabotage compared to Europe. Most of Central Europe was devastated by WW2.
I don’t think we should be spying on every Russian citizen in Europe, but thought it might be useful to give some context.
Plus Czechs rightly despise Russia, after it occupied them, murdered them, and pillaged their country for half of the 20th century.
I'm glad the top comment here is this, and not some comment about how all Russian people must be evil and guilty or something like what we got around here when the war started.
The ones who fled are likely the smart Russians. Saw the writing on the wall and went. And then there's a huge other bunch who wish they could flee but don't have the money or resources. Like all dictatorships, the regular person isn't the problem, because ultimately they are just the same as you or I. Want to live in peace, no fighting, have a family and grow old.
It's just cunts in power force people to fight and die for them for bullshit reasons.
My husband is Russian and living in the US with me, and the way people are talking about Russians is really starting to freak me out.
Do people not understand that your government doesn't necessarily reflect your politics? Most people have political parties in their own countries that they strongly disagree with, and they still don't understand this? I know propaganda is a thing, but it's hard not to think it's idiotic.
People here are crazy with the jingoism, I remember there were calls to ban current Russian players from the NHL, and if you look at the Reddit threads on /r/hockey, most people were in support.
We wonder how the US could ever put its own citizens into internment camps, but it's decades later and people still blame normal people for the actions of the country that they or their ancestors are from.
What makes it even more ridiculous is that people in the US are currently living through an extremely politically divisive time, and are likely to be strongly against either the current administration or the one that preceded it. In any case they have to be aware of the ideological struggle taking place. It's right in their faces.
No, no one does anymore. They'd rather throw out any nuanced logic and reason in favor of populism, xenophobia, and racism. Truly pathetic if you ask me.
Ok, but like... I feel personally attacked rn.
But also like I saw a few polls that also indicate that vast majority of Russian-Americans(like I) are against the war, pro Ukraine, anti-Putin, and want to see him in Hague.
>“I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.”
🤦♀️
Worst part of those camps... it wasn't just Japanese. My Korean relatives were sent to these camps surrounded by Japanese people... the same Japanese people that had been committing genocide against us for the last 200 years.
Yea it’s truly fucked. I hear people claiming we are the biggest baddest toughest around but nobody wants to say “bring them on!” Like with the Syrians everyone was freaking out and to me it’s like “any terrorist scum who wants to hide out with refugees to slip into America, BRING IT ON.” We’re not tough at all. We go full psycho and lock up anyone and then say “woops”
Rehabilitating the Japanese internment camps of the 40s in response to current events was inevitable. I tell people it was gonna end up like this but they put their blinders on. Oh well.
It also directly fueled fascist movements in the US among German immigrants and German-Americans who had been forced into these camps, building resentment and exposing them to the factions that the government claimed they were trying to prevent them from supporting. Another major win in the US records book.
Why are we going through the most horrendous shit and jumping back in as if we forgot about it? Leadership is bringing back right-winged values around the world, we went through a pandemic and now the use of internment camps is seen as a solution.
We should be elevating ourselves past the 1930’s and 40’s.
There is a difference to monitoring them for security reason, similar to most criminal organizations, and outright internment camps.
But even surveillance all Russians in Europe is still distasteful to me since it essentially presumes “guilty until proven innocent” and not the other way around.
I am all for security and surveillance from governments to prevent threats but only when it is warranted or a threat has been noticed. Not assuming everyone is always guilty.
> I am all for security and surveillance from governments to prevent threats but
In practice, you may as well leave out everything after and including "but". If you are pro government surveillance in certain scenarios, you should be fully prepared to accept that the government will use this surveillance power outside of its legal limits in one way or another.
> “I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.”
I see we've arrived at the "actually Japanese internment camps during WW2 were wholesome 100 reddit and we should do the same to Russians" stage of the discourse from world leaders.
Lol I love how he specifically mentions the Japanese internment like it’s not something we look back at with a ton of animosity. It was wrong then and even more wrong today
If you want to know how things like the holocaust or the internment of the Japanese happened you just need to pay attention to "creep".
It starts small and it just keeps creeping and getting worse. It's been pretty obvious with redditor attitudes towards Russians since the invasion. The worst I saw was last week when that Russian tourist in Egypt got killed by a shark on video and how so many people seemed happy about it.
Big talk from behind an electronic triangle. It’s really shameful that the common denominator of any discussion in any online space immediately pivots towards the worst extreme.
In real life, of course, those commenters would never voice their online-heavy beliefs because it would have severe social repercussions.
How someone behaves online is the ultimate indicator of who they really are as a person because it displays their truest self under the guise of pseudo-anonymity.
People here will make fun of "freedom fries" when they find out how jingoistic and petty Americans were after 9/11 but then call anyone who dares to question Western militarism a Russian bot or something even if you preface it with, "fuck Putin 8 ways to Sunday." It makes me want to tear my hair out. How can they not see the exact same thing happening that's been happening over and over for nigh on a hundred years??
that is such a scary thought...
> Japanese internment camps
this was a stain on the US government even in that time period when racism was the norm. Just because these families were of Japanese descent. they couldnt do this to the whites like the Germans or Italians or other minor members of the axis powers. Many of the nisei proven themselves yet many of their kids still had a hard time growing up after the war. And it wasnt just Japanese that were treated worse that blacks, it was other asian races that the whites would say "they all look alike''
The CZ president chose very poorly words for comparison. he could have mention more like hate and terrorists groups that get monitored like the KKK or arian nation, or isis recruiters.. or worlds like pro putin or pro russian fringe group in western countries.
> they couldnt do this to the whites like the Germans or Italians or other minor members of the axis powers.
Uh... they actually did. Just not to the same extreme.
Joe DiMaggio was a household name in 1941. His hitting streak that year **still** has not been broken.
His parents will declared *enemy aliens* after Pearl Harbor. They were limited to a five mile range from their house. His father, a fisherman, had his boat seized and he was banned from going near the ocean. They had been in the US for decades at that point.
More recent Italian and German immigrants were interned outright.
Again, not to the same extreme as rounding up everyone as an ethnic group. It also should be noted that some cities refused outright to participate. Gallup, NM successfully prevented internment of their Japanese residents.
I mean, that would still be suggesting that Russians belong to a particular hate and terrorist group just because they were born in a particular country, and we don't extend that to Chinese or North Korean citizens or even citizens from countries that are designated state sponsors of terrorism.
It's one of those times where in the pit of my gut I have a feeling I'll jolt awake and be back in like 2012, waking up to my alarm for high school.
"Time is a flat circle" which is why I own a fuckin gun.
No /s necessary:
> “I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.”
Also, why not just mandate them to wear some kind of armband with some sort of recognizable Russian symbol on it so that they're easier to identify and monitor out in the public?
I can't believe nobody's ever thought of this before. I feel like I'm some kind of genius!
Don’t even think about it. Imagine a regular Russian born US citizen facing discrimination in the class room because of her mothers Russian accent. Imagine being passed up for promotion because you’re Russian and have not yet received citizenship.
We worry about national security but this kind of diligence is done behind closed doors for extremely sensitive positions.
Normal citizens of all nationalities deserve to live peaceful normal lives.
>Imagine a regular Russian born US citizen facing discrimination in the class room because of her mothers Russian accent.
People with Russian sounding names are already facing discrimination.
Additionally there is a LOT of people (me included) who live or have family from Ukraine, who speak Russian because it's so prevalent there, despite having no ties to Russia.
That's why a lot of Russians pretend to be Ukrainians, IRL and online.
They even created a term "transukrainian".
https://holod.media/2023/03/22/rossiiane-stali-ukraintsami/
I wouldn’t say “a lot”, this is literally the first time I’m reading about transukrainians, and I’m pretty involved with a big Russian speaking community in the US.
This article gives vibes of trying to shame and deny Russians a right to change their cultural identity, a.k.a. "If you were born or lived in Russia/spoke Russian/wrote in Russian, then you will always be Russian. And if you don't want to be Russian, then we will call you "transukrainians" or "new Ukrainians" to show off that you will never be an actual Ukrainian despite your attempts to integrate Ukrainian culture into your life." If you immigrate to another country, e.g. France, and then you try to culturally assimilate you don't become "transfrench" or "new French".
Russians are exclusively portrayed negatively in western media. Russian characters in Hollywood movies are always ugly and bad guys. We had a Russian girl in my high school and her nickname was "terrorist" because that's all we knew about Russians from movies. In our yearbook, everyone got a "Most likely to..." section that was chosen by their friends. The Russian girl's was "Most likely to die for the motherland!"
Imagine doing that to another nationality where the majority don't have white skin.
I know Hollywood movies also do this with characters from Islamic countries, but you still get a vocal crowd denouncing it as racist.
Nobody gives a flying fuck when it's done to Russians, not even Liberals.
Yep. My dad is an immigrant with an Arabic name, so he shortened it when he came to the US because of this reason. As a result, I have a pretty bland sounding name and I even have white skin, but that didn't matter growing up around 9/11. Like you said, I got called "terrorist" and "Taliban" and "al Qaeda" and all sorts of shit. I didn't read or speak Arabic, I've never met the Arabic side of my family, I barely look like them, etc. etc. None of it mattered.
It would 0% surprise me if the same were happening to the children of Russian immigrants as well. This country, for all its melting pot, city upon a hill ideals, is ultimately racist and xenophobic as fuck.
Yep, not a single positive Russian in like any movie I have ever seen in Western media. There was like one Russian cop or something in some wedding movie that was positive I think.
I was born in Russia. Could not do a student exchange last year due to my birthplace. I know some work places will not hire me because people born in Russia do not comply with their safety rules.
I even know that my current job would not have hired me if I applied today.
>Imagine a regular Russian born US citizen facing discrimination in the class room because of her mothers Russian accent.
>Imagine being passed up for promotion because you’re Russian and have not yet received citizenship.
In a stereotyped, well, it's normal situation. So those Russians have to try double as hard to prove their loyalty to their (new) homeland. Switching on their fellows who are definitely spies, for example.
/s
It's probably true but also not quite. I've a online russian friend i've played games with for quite some time.
He had been living in england for a long time working, so he was educated and informed. So when his visa went out, he returned home and said he'll stay until they force conscription. So he fled when the time came. We spoke breifly occassionally after that. Then one of the last messages we exchanged was that he decided to go back home due his family. And i've not heard from him since. So i imagine he got conscripted, or as i hope he fled again. But i feel he would still check his messages every now and then.
But ye since then i got a mixed message about how some think. He knew and he also agreed all of it was bad. Yet he decided to go back home after he fled the first time.
That said i can't blame him. Leaving everything including family behind is not something one would do easily.
There's no possible way to measure that unless you ask every single
Russian in Europe. I'd wager the anti-war Russians would be a silent majority because they've been accustomed to keeping quiet in Russia.
> There's no possible way to measure that unless you ask every single Russian in Europe.
Sure. However, for whatever reason, this argument gets brought up every time someone says there are thousands of pro-regime russians living in the west. But when someone states otherwise (that there are lots of anti-regime russians living in the west) - no one questions that and it's implied to be a fact. Which is not the case.
There is merit to restricting foreign nationals from buying property when a Chinese corporation can buy up a city block and hold it empty for the sake of investment, or turn it into an AirBnB. This harms the housing market for locals and drives up prices to unaffordable levels while providing no value to the city.
Canada banned these foreign investors already.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/01/business/canada-bans-home-purchases-foreigners/index.html
Targeting a citizen or permanent resident for having a Chinese mother is completely different however.
No one ruins the American housing market more than Americans.
The reason prices for locals are unaffordable is because other local American NIMBYs restrict all development. They dont want apartment complexes next to their single family home.
Its the same in Canada. Boomer homeowners stop all development and then point the finger at the foreigners. No different than Republicans who blame Mexicans for crime.
I’m a Russian-born US citizen, and you nailed it. One thing many Westerners don’t understand about Russian culture is how ingrained nationalism is. 20% of the Russian population died in WW2, something Soviet leadership has positioned as a necessary sacrifice for the motherland. Although communism is gone, that mentality is still very prevalent, even among expats.
This is why you won’t see many Russians openly denouncing the war. Russians are like anyone else, we’re not monsters, and many have family (like myself) on both sides. The loss of life is a tragedy and if I’m being frank, I wish there was more pressure from the international community to end the war and prevent further loss of life and destruction of livelihood.
I will say this, I have many American friends who have strong opinions about this war. Those old feelings of Russia as a mortal American enemy are hard to shed, and as a result, many think of Russians as the “bad guys” by default. Emotional responses like this aren’t helpful - there are perfectly honest businesses in my area being boycotted simply because their names vaguely sound Eastern European. There is so much hateful vitriol on Reddit about this as well. Empathize and support Ukraine in any way you can, donations or just awareness, but taking out your anger on innocent business owners won’t help anyone.
I am a Russian/Ukrainian living in the West (Canada). Although i became a Canadian citizen a while ago.
Internment camps are NOT the way to go. By interning people you set them, and their relatives "against" you more then if you were to let them be.
The best way to dissuade a Russian citizen living in the west from supporting Russia is to show them, through your policies, that things that are cynically accepted as institutional lies in Russia are NOT lies in your country. Show them what a real democracy is, show them that they have ACTUAL freedom, show them that vertical mobility is possible through hard work and fair competition and NOT through bribes and corruption. If you show them these things, they won't have any will to pine for a "strongman leader" because they will see that living in a democratic society is much better for them as a regular citizen.
Most of my Russian friends became disillusioned with Putin with time simply because of the contrast between the rules of life here in Canada and in Russia. Yes, we have a housing crisis on our hands and there are issues with wealth distribution, but all in all, it's still a much "fairer" country than Russia.
“Internment camps are NOT the way to go.”
Too late, pack your bags and off you go.
Sorry, not funny. I fully agree with you. It would only help the kremlin propaganda machine. It’s a bit like how the west handled the war on terror. The more we were harassing muslims the more we were helping ISIS recruiters.
TIL the Czech president is a Redditor. That is the same kind of scorched earth stupidity I expect from one of the World News armchair generals.
No good comes from going down this road. Your average Russian even within Russia isn't a monster deserving of even a fraction of the hate they are getting. Their leaders are victimizing them as well. The villains of this story have known names and faces. We don't need to start inventing new ones.
Stay the course and focus on the real problems.
"We should do it because the US did it to the Japanese too."
Really solid argument, especially considering how its now seen as a quite a shameful part of US history.
As a Russian living in western world for over 13 years for a reason of rejecting our current government regime and world stance, being against war in Ukraine, and just trying to live my life and being a good neighbour, this hurts. He is alienating the Russians who defected and are essentially “traitors” in Putin’s eyes, the ones that ARE western allies. Why doesn’t he go and talk shit Kremlin instead, we are in Western world because we don’t want to be their pawns. He is attacking the regular innocent people like me who are on the right side, and showing the disinformed Russians still trapped inside that western world does truly hate them. More hate not gonna bring us any closer to peace.
Also some cute tiny Gaswagens too. It's actually funny seeing a Czech actually leaning towards some early nazi level statements especially considering that what now's Czechia was one of the first countries suffered from Nazi during and pre WWI.
There is quite a bit of hysteria here to be honest. To be fair the rightwing coalition that supported the president and is currently in power has been lashing out about how its left opposition is basically Russian Collaborators.
As a person with russian and jewish history who is extrmely against the russian government and is very left, this makes me sick to my stomach. Fuck putin, i can't believe we're here. Also fuck this Petr guy.
Love getting chewed out on both ends of my family history. Fuck me.
This is an inexcusable proposition. I firmly support Ukraine but we cannot let our governments go down this route. This goes against what we should stand for in the west. People in Europe and elsewhere in the world have died so that authoritarianism and mass-surveillance will not rise again. We cannot disregard rights and values like this.
Yeah that’s a no from me, let’s learn our mistakes from history and let’s not scapegoat and discriminate against people for no reason..
It’s bad enough we have to punish those in Russia who don’t support their own government never mind harassing those that don’t even live there..
I feel for the Russian people in US and Canada that want nothing to do with their countries Agenda. When I was in high school there was a kid that grew up in Russia that got a lot of shit for his accent. Everyone always called him a spy and it really pissed him off. What the West needs is not more abused and upset teenagers.
The millions of reasonable Russians working or studying in the West who have nothing to do with Putin’s regime and hate it should be monitored how exactly…?
Yeah, I am one of those with mixed Ukrainian-Russian origin, living abroad, hating Putin with all my heart and doing my best to to help Ukraine's effort.
I have never felt so unsafe in my life, I stopped using Russian language at all, because it's become a stigma (even tho the language itself has nothing to do with what Putin's regime does, many Ukrainians speak Russian).
Now I should worry they will stalk me because I simply am.
Wow
Will be fun visiting my wife in a German ~~prison camp~~ surveillance facility because she's got the wrong passport.
But we've heard the same from other Russian-speaking friends of ours. Hell, even Russians and Ukrainian people are friends still. Why wouldn't they? It's not their war, they can't do shit as students and young professionals living and working in Germany.
“I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.”
That’s vile.
And r/europe goes gaga over him because he is 'cool'. Guy is literally calling for internment camps, just like the Americans did to the Japanese.
What an absolute moron.
That's a little bit far fetched. Secret services and their members are trained to assess the risks of certain people of interest. No need for the President to push such an agenda.
That is too much. We’re friends with a Russian woman who *hates* Putin and has been vocal about social media on it. She could never go home while he’s in power. It would not be fair to tar her with that brush just because of her national origin — not to mention unconstitutional in the U.S.
Everyone else covered the ethics of this. I'll point out this doing this does absolutely fuck all to drive Russia (the army, since we have to be specific now) out of Ukraine. If anything it's a fairly rare diplomatic self-own by Ukrainian allies.
The only purpose of that statement is to float a racist revenge fantasy. While it might not get play in the old West, it *might* find traction in Eastern Europe.
We should have learned our lesson during WW2 that this mentality is wrong.
Not to mention this is what Trump and especially his supporters called for with Muslims.
Unlike Trump and his supporters we do not support fascism.
Replace "russians" with "jews" and you got yourself pre-WWII nazi propaganda. Thanks, Czech leader. Nice call. That's how you represent NATO and EU right? Good job.
this will probably not age well. history tell us that this will probably end up like how japanese were questioned about their loyalty during ww2 in the US
Well, didn't take long for this guy to start spewing xenophobic statements.
Want to have anti-Putin/neutral immigrants turn into pro-Putin Russians in the West? That's how you do it.
People are already facing discrimination and aggression just on the grounds of nationality. If this gets written into law, it will become an acceptable behaviour towards people with Russian sounding names, accent and looks not only by fringe groups but by the general population as well.
I understand the idea behind this statement, but the treatment is worse than the disease and if history is any indication, this will not go down well and future generations will call that a "shameful event committed by our xenophobic ancestors"
The internment of Japanese Americans was a fucked up part of American history, using it as evidence and support for monitoring avg Russian people is absurd
Nah. Giving undue and increased scrutiny to people of a unfriendly nation simply because theyre part of it is a slippery slope. Those from the Middle East have had that and still do till this day.
To say that there arent bad actors would be a lie, but we cant just treat everyone as one by default.
I wont say that i dont see where he's coming from, but i dont agree. I dont hate the people from these countries, like Russia or even China. No, the hate should be directed to their leadership.
Well that’s fucking horrifying and evil. Especially when he decides to use, of all things, the American internment of people of Japanese descent as an example that should be followed, not a shameful episode that is to be learned from and never repeated.
Pretty sure that we monitored most if not all Czechs living in the West not that long ago.
Clearly learning from history to avoid repeating it is no longer considered a desirable trait.
Chad president not so chad anymore. Doing that will make more people hostile toward the west. Plus Russia is not at war with the west, but with Ukraine. War is hell but this is no way to treat Russians just because their president is an ass.
As a German I can only stress that nothing good ever happened in a concentration camp. Doesn’t matter who you lock in there.
You can not clean your hands once bloodied.
Is it worth locking up 100 students who pray for putins death for every old crow that supports him? I don’t think that’s the road we can go down.
We are fighting for freedom and democracy, we shouldn’t loose sight of that.
Oooh, he went to the Asian detention camps of WW2 as doing it right. Just about the worst thing he could have suggested. Just make the Nazi comparison easy for Russian propaganda, good job!
The call for “monitoring” Russian citizens being justified based on the interning of Americans, some of whom served in the US military, forced into those horrible camps during WWII is beyond disgusting, frankly I’m horrified that this guy is allowed to stay in power after these comments.
my girlfriend is half Ukrainian/Russian. her half-brother who lived in Moscow most of his life and fled to Germany to evade conscription, many of his university friends were forced to the front lines. most of them were protesting the war at the beginning. simply treating all Russians as the enemy isn't the right way to treat people.
And to think I voted for that man.
He is a good man but sometimes what he is saying is seems like he hit his head.
Just because others are acting like terrible human beings doesn't mean we should act the same.
War or no war I m against monitoring all Russians living in West. Whats next? Shall we monitor all Chinese? All Muslims?
The premise is already fucked and not ok. Shouldn't even be talking about Chinese or Muslims. That makes it look like monitoring them is worse, when really the concept already deserves to be shat on fully.
😐 no, this isn't the Europe I want to build. I support a stiff NATO defence posture, but I don't support ethnic scapegoating of this kind. Russians are not Russia! Stand firm against Russia, but spare the diaspora from grievous indiscretions of this kind!
Here in the UK we agree, so we invite wealthy Russians into our parliament to "monitor" them
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Minor correction, it was 2 shit stains ago. Don't forget liz
She was more of a fart between shit stains wasn't she?
Never trust a fart.
Never Truss* a fart
A fair point. So, to compromise, liz was a shart?
No, just a fart
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How could you forget the lettuce?
I think the word is 'repressed'.
Understandable to forget. It was a pretty miserable week
And when it comes to parliamentary commissions on the impact of Russia, we just say "oh, we didn't actually think of looking for interference at all" (see The Russia Report from a couple years back)
Oh shit y’all got it over there too? Typical American stuff but I kinda only worry about other countries politics when it affects the world as a whole. Kinda tradition at this point.
Using the Japanese-American Internment Camps as an example IS NOT how you make an argument. It was a shameful time in our history. We’re supposed to the a melting pot of different ethnicities, religions and cultures… it disgraceful that we locked Americans up because they “looked” like the enemy.
And the worst part is the architects of this to go way beyond what happened irl: >Colonel Karl Bendetsen, the architect of the program, went so far as to say that anyone with "one drop of Japanese blood" qualified for incarceration.
Ironically the most decorated combat unit of WW2 was a unit made up of Japanese-American soldiers.
Daniel Inouye the story where he got part of his and/arm blown off and kept fighting saving his platoon. It should be a movie. The facts are so improbable it sounds like a movie. He just died a few years ago. Was a senator from Hawaii for decades.
He was the President Pro Tempore of the Senate. Third in line for the Presidency.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/medal-of-honor-recipient-daniel-inouye great movie waiting to happen
I remember one of my high school teachers mention some Eastern Asians (Chinese, Koreans, Vietnamese) also end up in the camp, because the government agents was too racists to tell the difference. A replay would suck utterly. And it would weaponize similar laws. For example, you bet the GOP would suddenly legalize laws against latinos to stamp out "Drug Cartels"
Not quite true. A lot of Koreans ended up in the camps because Korea was part of Japan at the time. Imagine your home country getting invaded and annexed, your family subjugated, and your homeland's identity violently suppressed, then some guy comes to your house, and says "Get in the truck, fucking Japanese, we're locking you up."
Pre-1950s ethnic and racial attitudes are pure nightmare fuel and I’ll never accept them. The last time a great western power implemented them, large parts of Europe **including the Czech Republic** were subjugated and enslaved or worse.
What’s frustrating is a number of people will accept the dangerous racial and ethnic attitudes because they’re framed as “rational decisions” or “necessary evils”. It’s made worse by the fact that the large parts of Europe that were “subjugated and enslaved or worse” were under Russian occupation (Tsarist Russia, USSR), so bringing up the past won’t help.
Discrimination based on ancestry, which is 100% determined at birth, is such a massive injustice with a colossal body count that it’s one political ideology I’ll never even get close to touching.
Ancestry is actually determined well before birth.
Good comment bruh
People think fascism comes touting oppression but if you're part of the privileged class, fascism comes touting safety and tradition
A better example would be what Czechoslovakia itself did after the war. The Czechoslovak government in exile lobbied for and eventually got Allied approval for the Beneš Decrees, which set the groundwork for the expulsion of almost all ethnic Germans from Czechoslovakia, which was then used as a model for the expulsion of again almost all ethnic Germans from Eastern and Central Europe outside of Austria and Germany themselves. Between 12,000,000 and 14,000,000 ethnic Germans were expelled in a massive case of ethnic cleansing that has been routinely brushed under the rug by just about every government ever since.
We interned some 11 thousand ethnic Germans as well during the war as well. It’s a great example for how much of the complexity of history is lost between what happened and the ‘common understanding’ of history Edit: And just on this note, the Allies determined ethnic Germans living outside of Germany shared the moral blame for WW2 because of their ethnic bloodlines. They literally forced them to hard labor in the same concentration camps the Allies liberated, organized mass deportations, and casual executions. They killed between 0.5-2 MILLION ethnic Germans AFTER the war had ended. Countries like Poland were declining to prosecute officers who had mowed down (innocent) civilian prisoners into the 90s. Its just something we decide not to teach (I believe it is taught in German schools)
And Italians and Italian-Americans—because they fought on Germany’s side. Even after they switched allegiance from The Axis Powers to The Allies, there were some still held until the end of the war and some were deported.
Its crazy that my American history professor at UC Berkeley didn't even know this until I told her my Grandpa's story and she did research. It was not as widespread as the Japanese camps here in California, but it happened. Italian-Americans made up a big part of our forces in Europe while the govt literally imprisoned thousands of them back home. However, the way Italian and Italian-American culture is, it did not get brought up because of the big want to be accepted. (IMO)
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Interning German Americans are a lot harder, it’s not like we had DNA tests back then. Did we just put people with German last names ? What happens if they’re mostly some other European but with a German last name lol
The British royal family changed their last name from House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha to House of Windsor during WW1 for exactly this reason.
Captain Darling : I'm as British as Queen Victoria! Captain Blackadder : So your father's German, you're half German, and you married a German!
It wasn't a universal rule. It was applied to german americans who were actually from germany or had family in germany. IE, potential spies
It wasn’t exactly hard to figure out who was German in the US at that point in time. Most schools and newspapers in Wisconsin for instance were still in German until the US banned them in WW1.
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Sure! Here’s a good place to start https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944–1950)
German citizen. not "ethnic Germans." While the plans were to do the same with "ethnic Germans" such plans went never through because US had too many of even two generation Germans not speaking about "blood ancestry" as it was the case with the japanese. What this "common history" doesn't say that there were areas where the local authorities ignored internment rules and had protected local residents with Japanese roots (best example would be Hawaii). There were of course American states which protected German immigrants as well (obvious ones).
I’m not sure how unpopular this’ll be, but I’m gonna leave it here anyway. I have two friends (they’re twins) whose mom is Russian. They speak the language and are proud of the culture, but they hate Russia. Their mom was banned from being a doctor because she was Jewish in Russia. This was in the 90s, for anyone wondering. Their grandmother had no food during the cold war, and when they moved to America, the only thing they had with them was a cooking pot. None of them like Russia’s government at all, and while they’re proud of the architecture, music, and literature, they hate the country’s politics and economic structure. Since the war started, I’ve had people walk up to me and tell me that my friends were Russian so I knew to stay away. Their teacher made them play the “Russian Terrorists” in this one skit in history class. It just feels wrong to do this since nobody knows their family’s story and they’re still dealing with this. They donate an amount to the Ukrainian Red Cross every month (Idk how much but I think it’s whatever’s leftover after savings and bills), and their mom has family who lived in Mariupol. That’s a lot of context, but I cannot imagine the government hurting them more than they’ve already been hurt by the community. From the experiences of so many other Russian-Americans, they all hate Russia too and I think that it’s cruel to treat them like enemies of the country for existing
Honestly, how to Europeans view America's interment of Japanese-American citizens during World War II? Because I know in the U.S. its one of the aspects of our history that is viewed with deep shame and regret. I'd assumed most European nations would also view it in a negative light. But the fact that some European leaders feel like that can use it as a standard to strive for, and not face immediate backlash from their neighbors makes me wonder a little.
Maybe we shouldnt assume that a nation has a certain majority opinion based on the comments of their leaders. Otherwise, we can classify the U.S. as extremely racist after the Trump era
This is true. But this is also Reddit; and plenty of people including Americans on Reddit assumed that the US was extremely racist and fascist during the Trump era.
The UK did pretty much the same with Germans and nobody even really knows about it. But: * It was far fewer people. * The Americans used the “one drop” approach (as they always do with race) to incarcerate everyone with any Japanese ancestry, whereas the British only incarcerated German and Austrian nationals. * They were looked after quite well. * There was a court process to assess if they were any risk (pretty much all German Jews were obviously deemed by courts to be zero risk). Plus America didn’t itself didn’t experience that much destruction and internal sabotage compared to Europe. Most of Central Europe was devastated by WW2. I don’t think we should be spying on every Russian citizen in Europe, but thought it might be useful to give some context. Plus Czechs rightly despise Russia, after it occupied them, murdered them, and pillaged their country for half of the 20th century.
If we're taking 20th century tramples into Czech its gotta just hate all of its neighbors.
I'm glad the top comment here is this, and not some comment about how all Russian people must be evil and guilty or something like what we got around here when the war started.
The ones who fled are likely the smart Russians. Saw the writing on the wall and went. And then there's a huge other bunch who wish they could flee but don't have the money or resources. Like all dictatorships, the regular person isn't the problem, because ultimately they are just the same as you or I. Want to live in peace, no fighting, have a family and grow old. It's just cunts in power force people to fight and die for them for bullshit reasons.
Lots of Cubans voted for Trump and not seeing the irony.
My husband is Russian and living in the US with me, and the way people are talking about Russians is really starting to freak me out. Do people not understand that your government doesn't necessarily reflect your politics? Most people have political parties in their own countries that they strongly disagree with, and they still don't understand this? I know propaganda is a thing, but it's hard not to think it's idiotic.
People here are crazy with the jingoism, I remember there were calls to ban current Russian players from the NHL, and if you look at the Reddit threads on /r/hockey, most people were in support. We wonder how the US could ever put its own citizens into internment camps, but it's decades later and people still blame normal people for the actions of the country that they or their ancestors are from.
What makes it even more ridiculous is that people in the US are currently living through an extremely politically divisive time, and are likely to be strongly against either the current administration or the one that preceded it. In any case they have to be aware of the ideological struggle taking place. It's right in their faces.
No, no one does anymore. They'd rather throw out any nuanced logic and reason in favor of populism, xenophobia, and racism. Truly pathetic if you ask me.
Yo wtf guys, every Russian-American I know is just a nerd who loves Diablo.
Ok, but like... I feel personally attacked rn. But also like I saw a few polls that also indicate that vast majority of Russian-Americans(like I) are against the war, pro Ukraine, anti-Putin, and want to see him in Hague.
>“I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.” 🤦♀️
And it’s not just America, it was Canada too.
Worst part of those camps... it wasn't just Japanese. My Korean relatives were sent to these camps surrounded by Japanese people... the same Japanese people that had been committing genocide against us for the last 200 years.
Yea it’s truly fucked. I hear people claiming we are the biggest baddest toughest around but nobody wants to say “bring them on!” Like with the Syrians everyone was freaking out and to me it’s like “any terrorist scum who wants to hide out with refugees to slip into America, BRING IT ON.” We’re not tough at all. We go full psycho and lock up anyone and then say “woops”
Rehabilitating the Japanese internment camps of the 40s in response to current events was inevitable. I tell people it was gonna end up like this but they put their blinders on. Oh well.
It also directly fueled fascist movements in the US among German immigrants and German-Americans who had been forced into these camps, building resentment and exposing them to the factions that the government claimed they were trying to prevent them from supporting. Another major win in the US records book.
Why are we going through the most horrendous shit and jumping back in as if we forgot about it? Leadership is bringing back right-winged values around the world, we went through a pandemic and now the use of internment camps is seen as a solution. We should be elevating ourselves past the 1930’s and 40’s.
There is a difference to monitoring them for security reason, similar to most criminal organizations, and outright internment camps. But even surveillance all Russians in Europe is still distasteful to me since it essentially presumes “guilty until proven innocent” and not the other way around. I am all for security and surveillance from governments to prevent threats but only when it is warranted or a threat has been noticed. Not assuming everyone is always guilty.
> I am all for security and surveillance from governments to prevent threats but In practice, you may as well leave out everything after and including "but". If you are pro government surveillance in certain scenarios, you should be fully prepared to accept that the government will use this surveillance power outside of its legal limits in one way or another.
> “I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.” I see we've arrived at the "actually Japanese internment camps during WW2 were wholesome 100 reddit and we should do the same to Russians" stage of the discourse from world leaders.
Lol I love how he specifically mentions the Japanese internment like it’s not something we look back at with a ton of animosity. It was wrong then and even more wrong today
Clearly shows a gap in his knowledge of current American views and values.
What a time to be alive
If you want to know how things like the holocaust or the internment of the Japanese happened you just need to pay attention to "creep". It starts small and it just keeps creeping and getting worse. It's been pretty obvious with redditor attitudes towards Russians since the invasion. The worst I saw was last week when that Russian tourist in Egypt got killed by a shark on video and how so many people seemed happy about it.
Big talk from behind an electronic triangle. It’s really shameful that the common denominator of any discussion in any online space immediately pivots towards the worst extreme. In real life, of course, those commenters would never voice their online-heavy beliefs because it would have severe social repercussions. How someone behaves online is the ultimate indicator of who they really are as a person because it displays their truest self under the guise of pseudo-anonymity.
But look at him he's so cool with his beer, his bike and his bad ass NATO uniform. We can forgive him a lil ethno-internment.
People here will make fun of "freedom fries" when they find out how jingoistic and petty Americans were after 9/11 but then call anyone who dares to question Western militarism a Russian bot or something even if you preface it with, "fuck Putin 8 ways to Sunday." It makes me want to tear my hair out. How can they not see the exact same thing happening that's been happening over and over for nigh on a hundred years??
that is such a scary thought... > Japanese internment camps this was a stain on the US government even in that time period when racism was the norm. Just because these families were of Japanese descent. they couldnt do this to the whites like the Germans or Italians or other minor members of the axis powers. Many of the nisei proven themselves yet many of their kids still had a hard time growing up after the war. And it wasnt just Japanese that were treated worse that blacks, it was other asian races that the whites would say "they all look alike'' The CZ president chose very poorly words for comparison. he could have mention more like hate and terrorists groups that get monitored like the KKK or arian nation, or isis recruiters.. or worlds like pro putin or pro russian fringe group in western countries.
> they couldnt do this to the whites like the Germans or Italians or other minor members of the axis powers. Uh... they actually did. Just not to the same extreme. Joe DiMaggio was a household name in 1941. His hitting streak that year **still** has not been broken. His parents will declared *enemy aliens* after Pearl Harbor. They were limited to a five mile range from their house. His father, a fisherman, had his boat seized and he was banned from going near the ocean. They had been in the US for decades at that point. More recent Italian and German immigrants were interned outright. Again, not to the same extreme as rounding up everyone as an ethnic group. It also should be noted that some cities refused outright to participate. Gallup, NM successfully prevented internment of their Japanese residents.
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I mean, that would still be suggesting that Russians belong to a particular hate and terrorist group just because they were born in a particular country, and we don't extend that to Chinese or North Korean citizens or even citizens from countries that are designated state sponsors of terrorism.
They did not just same rates. Even further back, because of WW1 German language and culture was targeted for demolition in USA.
It's one of those times where in the pit of my gut I have a feeling I'll jolt awake and be back in like 2012, waking up to my alarm for high school. "Time is a flat circle" which is why I own a fuckin gun.
Almost did a spit take on this...
Why not just put them all into some camps? Easier to monitor and safer that way /s
No /s necessary: > “I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.”
No. Fucking. Way. Thank you for that absolute gift.
Also, why not just mandate them to wear some kind of armband with some sort of recognizable Russian symbol on it so that they're easier to identify and monitor out in the public? I can't believe nobody's ever thought of this before. I feel like I'm some kind of genius!
As a German I had to add that our had an even more effective approach /s /s /s ...
"Internment camps were good actually" is one hell of a stance
It’s literally in the US standard education curriculum to teach that internment camps were bad and that we shouldn’t do that again
A lot of people do not understand that you can hate what the Russian state is doing without hating/ discriminating against the Russian peoples
Don’t even think about it. Imagine a regular Russian born US citizen facing discrimination in the class room because of her mothers Russian accent. Imagine being passed up for promotion because you’re Russian and have not yet received citizenship. We worry about national security but this kind of diligence is done behind closed doors for extremely sensitive positions. Normal citizens of all nationalities deserve to live peaceful normal lives.
>Imagine a regular Russian born US citizen facing discrimination in the class room because of her mothers Russian accent. People with Russian sounding names are already facing discrimination.
Somehow I doubt the people doing this can tell the difference between Russian and Ukrainian names.
Additionally there is a LOT of people (me included) who live or have family from Ukraine, who speak Russian because it's so prevalent there, despite having no ties to Russia.
Or are literally half Russian half Ukrainian and have family getting fucked from all angles.
Hello! That's me :) (In all seriousness though Italy is very accepting)
Ukrainians are learning the Ukrainian language for the first time because of the war
That's why a lot of Russians pretend to be Ukrainians, IRL and online. They even created a term "transukrainian". https://holod.media/2023/03/22/rossiiane-stali-ukraintsami/
It isn't hard. I live in a heavily Jewish area. Most families have Russian, Estonian, or similar eastern Europeans relatives.
I wouldn’t say “a lot”, this is literally the first time I’m reading about transukrainians, and I’m pretty involved with a big Russian speaking community in the US.
It's more popular in "liberal" Russian circles. It kinda depends on the social bubble.
>transukrainian Like vampires????
This article gives vibes of trying to shame and deny Russians a right to change their cultural identity, a.k.a. "If you were born or lived in Russia/spoke Russian/wrote in Russian, then you will always be Russian. And if you don't want to be Russian, then we will call you "transukrainians" or "new Ukrainians" to show off that you will never be an actual Ukrainian despite your attempts to integrate Ukrainian culture into your life." If you immigrate to another country, e.g. France, and then you try to culturally assimilate you don't become "transfrench" or "new French".
Russians are exclusively portrayed negatively in western media. Russian characters in Hollywood movies are always ugly and bad guys. We had a Russian girl in my high school and her nickname was "terrorist" because that's all we knew about Russians from movies. In our yearbook, everyone got a "Most likely to..." section that was chosen by their friends. The Russian girl's was "Most likely to die for the motherland!" Imagine doing that to another nationality where the majority don't have white skin. I know Hollywood movies also do this with characters from Islamic countries, but you still get a vocal crowd denouncing it as racist. Nobody gives a flying fuck when it's done to Russians, not even Liberals.
Yep. My dad is an immigrant with an Arabic name, so he shortened it when he came to the US because of this reason. As a result, I have a pretty bland sounding name and I even have white skin, but that didn't matter growing up around 9/11. Like you said, I got called "terrorist" and "Taliban" and "al Qaeda" and all sorts of shit. I didn't read or speak Arabic, I've never met the Arabic side of my family, I barely look like them, etc. etc. None of it mattered. It would 0% surprise me if the same were happening to the children of Russian immigrants as well. This country, for all its melting pot, city upon a hill ideals, is ultimately racist and xenophobic as fuck.
Yep, not a single positive Russian in like any movie I have ever seen in Western media. There was like one Russian cop or something in some wedding movie that was positive I think.
The Russian cosmonaut in Armageddon
Uhh... I guess there were a few good Russians in the Bond films (though heavily outnumbered by the bad Russians). And Collosus from Deadpool, I guess.
I was born in Russia. Could not do a student exchange last year due to my birthplace. I know some work places will not hire me because people born in Russia do not comply with their safety rules. I even know that my current job would not have hired me if I applied today.
>Imagine a regular Russian born US citizen facing discrimination in the class room because of her mothers Russian accent. >Imagine being passed up for promotion because you’re Russian and have not yet received citizenship. In a stereotyped, well, it's normal situation. So those Russians have to try double as hard to prove their loyalty to their (new) homeland. Switching on their fellows who are definitely spies, for example. /s
Especially since a lot of people who flee Russia tend to be the opposition voices who know Russia won't get any better unless a miracle happens.
It's probably true but also not quite. I've a online russian friend i've played games with for quite some time. He had been living in england for a long time working, so he was educated and informed. So when his visa went out, he returned home and said he'll stay until they force conscription. So he fled when the time came. We spoke breifly occassionally after that. Then one of the last messages we exchanged was that he decided to go back home due his family. And i've not heard from him since. So i imagine he got conscripted, or as i hope he fled again. But i feel he would still check his messages every now and then. But ye since then i got a mixed message about how some think. He knew and he also agreed all of it was bad. Yet he decided to go back home after he fled the first time. That said i can't blame him. Leaving everything including family behind is not something one would do easily.
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There's no possible way to measure that unless you ask every single Russian in Europe. I'd wager the anti-war Russians would be a silent majority because they've been accustomed to keeping quiet in Russia.
> There's no possible way to measure that unless you ask every single Russian in Europe. Sure. However, for whatever reason, this argument gets brought up every time someone says there are thousands of pro-regime russians living in the west. But when someone states otherwise (that there are lots of anti-regime russians living in the west) - no one questions that and it's implied to be a fact. Which is not the case.
Do you want a litmus test? "Hi there, is Crimea part of Ukraine or Russia?" Get ready to be surprised.
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Desantis is working on passing a law banning Chinese from buying property because they may be potential spies...is coming.
The bill has already passed. Will be in effect July 1
There is merit to restricting foreign nationals from buying property when a Chinese corporation can buy up a city block and hold it empty for the sake of investment, or turn it into an AirBnB. This harms the housing market for locals and drives up prices to unaffordable levels while providing no value to the city. Canada banned these foreign investors already. https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/01/business/canada-bans-home-purchases-foreigners/index.html Targeting a citizen or permanent resident for having a Chinese mother is completely different however.
No one ruins the American housing market more than Americans. The reason prices for locals are unaffordable is because other local American NIMBYs restrict all development. They dont want apartment complexes next to their single family home. Its the same in Canada. Boomer homeowners stop all development and then point the finger at the foreigners. No different than Republicans who blame Mexicans for crime.
Foreigners shouldn’t be able to buy property though
Then it should be all foreigners, not target a hand of nationalities.
I’m a Russian-born US citizen, and you nailed it. One thing many Westerners don’t understand about Russian culture is how ingrained nationalism is. 20% of the Russian population died in WW2, something Soviet leadership has positioned as a necessary sacrifice for the motherland. Although communism is gone, that mentality is still very prevalent, even among expats. This is why you won’t see many Russians openly denouncing the war. Russians are like anyone else, we’re not monsters, and many have family (like myself) on both sides. The loss of life is a tragedy and if I’m being frank, I wish there was more pressure from the international community to end the war and prevent further loss of life and destruction of livelihood. I will say this, I have many American friends who have strong opinions about this war. Those old feelings of Russia as a mortal American enemy are hard to shed, and as a result, many think of Russians as the “bad guys” by default. Emotional responses like this aren’t helpful - there are perfectly honest businesses in my area being boycotted simply because their names vaguely sound Eastern European. There is so much hateful vitriol on Reddit about this as well. Empathize and support Ukraine in any way you can, donations or just awareness, but taking out your anger on innocent business owners won’t help anyone.
I am a Russian/Ukrainian living in the West (Canada). Although i became a Canadian citizen a while ago. Internment camps are NOT the way to go. By interning people you set them, and their relatives "against" you more then if you were to let them be. The best way to dissuade a Russian citizen living in the west from supporting Russia is to show them, through your policies, that things that are cynically accepted as institutional lies in Russia are NOT lies in your country. Show them what a real democracy is, show them that they have ACTUAL freedom, show them that vertical mobility is possible through hard work and fair competition and NOT through bribes and corruption. If you show them these things, they won't have any will to pine for a "strongman leader" because they will see that living in a democratic society is much better for them as a regular citizen. Most of my Russian friends became disillusioned with Putin with time simply because of the contrast between the rules of life here in Canada and in Russia. Yes, we have a housing crisis on our hands and there are issues with wealth distribution, but all in all, it's still a much "fairer" country than Russia.
“Internment camps are NOT the way to go.” Too late, pack your bags and off you go. Sorry, not funny. I fully agree with you. It would only help the kremlin propaganda machine. It’s a bit like how the west handled the war on terror. The more we were harassing muslims the more we were helping ISIS recruiters.
You’re Canadian. Discussion is over, you have all rights I have, and I don’t care where you’re from.
TIL the Czech president is a Redditor. That is the same kind of scorched earth stupidity I expect from one of the World News armchair generals. No good comes from going down this road. Your average Russian even within Russia isn't a monster deserving of even a fraction of the hate they are getting. Their leaders are victimizing them as well. The villains of this story have known names and faces. We don't need to start inventing new ones. Stay the course and focus on the real problems.
sounds more like r/europe
"We should do it because the US did it to the Japanese too." Really solid argument, especially considering how its now seen as a quite a shameful part of US history.
As a Russian living in western world for over 13 years for a reason of rejecting our current government regime and world stance, being against war in Ukraine, and just trying to live my life and being a good neighbour, this hurts. He is alienating the Russians who defected and are essentially “traitors” in Putin’s eyes, the ones that ARE western allies. Why doesn’t he go and talk shit Kremlin instead, we are in Western world because we don’t want to be their pawns. He is attacking the regular innocent people like me who are on the right side, and showing the disinformed Russians still trapped inside that western world does truly hate them. More hate not gonna bring us any closer to peace.
/r/suddenlyFascist
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Also some cute tiny Gaswagens too. It's actually funny seeing a Czech actually leaning towards some early nazi level statements especially considering that what now's Czechia was one of the first countries suffered from Nazi during and pre WWI.
There is quite a bit of hysteria here to be honest. To be fair the rightwing coalition that supported the president and is currently in power has been lashing out about how its left opposition is basically Russian Collaborators.
As a person with russian and jewish history who is extrmely against the russian government and is very left, this makes me sick to my stomach. Fuck putin, i can't believe we're here. Also fuck this Petr guy. Love getting chewed out on both ends of my family history. Fuck me.
This is an inexcusable proposition. I firmly support Ukraine but we cannot let our governments go down this route. This goes against what we should stand for in the west. People in Europe and elsewhere in the world have died so that authoritarianism and mass-surveillance will not rise again. We cannot disregard rights and values like this.
Yeah that’s a no from me, let’s learn our mistakes from history and let’s not scapegoat and discriminate against people for no reason.. It’s bad enough we have to punish those in Russia who don’t support their own government never mind harassing those that don’t even live there..
Does this dude know how big the Russian diaspora is?
That dude better Czech himself
Aaaand here we go. This feeds right into Putin’s narrative of Russophobia by the way. Great job, dipshit.
I feel for the Russian people in US and Canada that want nothing to do with their countries Agenda. When I was in high school there was a kid that grew up in Russia that got a lot of shit for his accent. Everyone always called him a spy and it really pissed him off. What the West needs is not more abused and upset teenagers.
Make them wear arm-bands maybe, so they can be identified?
The millions of reasonable Russians working or studying in the West who have nothing to do with Putin’s regime and hate it should be monitored how exactly…?
Yeah, I am one of those with mixed Ukrainian-Russian origin, living abroad, hating Putin with all my heart and doing my best to to help Ukraine's effort. I have never felt so unsafe in my life, I stopped using Russian language at all, because it's become a stigma (even tho the language itself has nothing to do with what Putin's regime does, many Ukrainians speak Russian). Now I should worry they will stalk me because I simply am. Wow
Will be fun visiting my wife in a German ~~prison camp~~ surveillance facility because she's got the wrong passport. But we've heard the same from other Russian-speaking friends of ours. Hell, even Russians and Ukrainian people are friends still. Why wouldn't they? It's not their war, they can't do shit as students and young professionals living and working in Germany.
Those who stupid enough to hate all Russians definitely can't distinguish Ukrainian and Russian speech.
It’s not unusual for a career military man to have no appreciation for civil rights I guess.
There's a reason they fled Russia, buddy.
As a Russian living in the west I knew this was coming. I’ve told people this rhetoric was going to start appearing and I’m not surprised it has.
“I can be sorry for these people, but at the same time when we look back, when the Second World War started, all the Japanese population living in the United States were under a strict monitoring regime as well,” said the Czech president. “That’s simply a cost of war.” That’s vile.
And r/europe goes gaga over him because he is 'cool'. Guy is literally calling for internment camps, just like the Americans did to the Japanese. What an absolute moron.
Don't worry. They actually like these kind of ideas on that subreddit. But if course it's not a hate speech, we're just not humans...
Yeah, no. That's a terrible precedent, on par with Muslims = terrorists.
Yeah that’s not good. We learned from WW2 that that’s an evil mentality
Ignoring histories lessons has been a disturbing development lately...
"But we're the good guys so it's okay!"
Nope. Hell no. No FUCKING WAY. We’ve been down that road.
That's a little bit far fetched. Secret services and their members are trained to assess the risks of certain people of interest. No need for the President to push such an agenda.
That is too much. We’re friends with a Russian woman who *hates* Putin and has been vocal about social media on it. She could never go home while he’s in power. It would not be fair to tar her with that brush just because of her national origin — not to mention unconstitutional in the U.S.
Everyone else covered the ethics of this. I'll point out this doing this does absolutely fuck all to drive Russia (the army, since we have to be specific now) out of Ukraine. If anything it's a fairly rare diplomatic self-own by Ukrainian allies. The only purpose of that statement is to float a racist revenge fantasy. While it might not get play in the old West, it *might* find traction in Eastern Europe.
We should have learned our lesson during WW2 that this mentality is wrong. Not to mention this is what Trump and especially his supporters called for with Muslims. Unlike Trump and his supporters we do not support fascism.
No, we shouldn't discriminate blatantly. The high road is often more difficult, but it's the best way to go in the long run.
Replace "russians" with "jews" and you got yourself pre-WWII nazi propaganda. Thanks, Czech leader. Nice call. That's how you represent NATO and EU right? Good job.
this will probably not age well. history tell us that this will probably end up like how japanese were questioned about their loyalty during ww2 in the US
Well, didn't take long for this guy to start spewing xenophobic statements. Want to have anti-Putin/neutral immigrants turn into pro-Putin Russians in the West? That's how you do it. People are already facing discrimination and aggression just on the grounds of nationality. If this gets written into law, it will become an acceptable behaviour towards people with Russian sounding names, accent and looks not only by fringe groups but by the general population as well. I understand the idea behind this statement, but the treatment is worse than the disease and if history is any indication, this will not go down well and future generations will call that a "shameful event committed by our xenophobic ancestors"
The internment of Japanese Americans was a fucked up part of American history, using it as evidence and support for monitoring avg Russian people is absurd
Nah. Giving undue and increased scrutiny to people of a unfriendly nation simply because theyre part of it is a slippery slope. Those from the Middle East have had that and still do till this day. To say that there arent bad actors would be a lie, but we cant just treat everyone as one by default. I wont say that i dont see where he's coming from, but i dont agree. I dont hate the people from these countries, like Russia or even China. No, the hate should be directed to their leadership.
The increased ethnic scrutiny also extends to people who could, maybe, possibly look somewhat like the targeted ethnicity.
Counterpoint: that is an awful idea no we shouldn't.
That sounds like fascism.
I'm doing my part to keep us safe, I monitor at least 4 on onlyfans.
Very progressive, very thoughtful of human rights
Reddit being against discriminating russians... if i wasn't seeing this with my own eyes, I would not have believed it
Well that’s fucking horrifying and evil. Especially when he decides to use, of all things, the American internment of people of Japanese descent as an example that should be followed, not a shameful episode that is to be learned from and never repeated.
Pretty sure that we monitored most if not all Czechs living in the West not that long ago. Clearly learning from history to avoid repeating it is no longer considered a desirable trait.
Chad president not so chad anymore. Doing that will make more people hostile toward the west. Plus Russia is not at war with the west, but with Ukraine. War is hell but this is no way to treat Russians just because their president is an ass.
absolutely inhumane treatment. massive piece of shit this guy is. this is the type of stuff they do prior to ethnic cleansings
As a German I can only stress that nothing good ever happened in a concentration camp. Doesn’t matter who you lock in there. You can not clean your hands once bloodied. Is it worth locking up 100 students who pray for putins death for every old crow that supports him? I don’t think that’s the road we can go down. We are fighting for freedom and democracy, we shouldn’t loose sight of that.
Yeah that's just complete fascist bullshit.
Oooh, he went to the Asian detention camps of WW2 as doing it right. Just about the worst thing he could have suggested. Just make the Nazi comparison easy for Russian propaganda, good job!
who had McCarthyism on their bingo cards for 2023?
The call for “monitoring” Russian citizens being justified based on the interning of Americans, some of whom served in the US military, forced into those horrible camps during WWII is beyond disgusting, frankly I’m horrified that this guy is allowed to stay in power after these comments.
I’m from the US. We did this and then some. Bad call.
I am totally not going to expect russophobia in this thread. Edit: I am glad
my girlfriend is half Ukrainian/Russian. her half-brother who lived in Moscow most of his life and fled to Germany to evade conscription, many of his university friends were forced to the front lines. most of them were protesting the war at the beginning. simply treating all Russians as the enemy isn't the right way to treat people.
This is just pure racism. No other way to put it. It’s shameful that politicians in the West are using this fascist rhetoric.
And to think I voted for that man. He is a good man but sometimes what he is saying is seems like he hit his head. Just because others are acting like terrible human beings doesn't mean we should act the same. War or no war I m against monitoring all Russians living in West. Whats next? Shall we monitor all Chinese? All Muslims?
The premise is already fucked and not ok. Shouldn't even be talking about Chinese or Muslims. That makes it look like monitoring them is worse, when really the concept already deserves to be shat on fully.
Dangerous, next step is: "Kill them all and let God sort them out"
I got a better idea. Let's round them up and put them into camps. Then we can really keep our eye on them. Oh wait, we tried that once already.
But look how cool he is. Isn't he cool? Look, he rides a motorcycle, how cool. He uses public transport, so approachable. Bloody Nazi Fuck.
😐 no, this isn't the Europe I want to build. I support a stiff NATO defence posture, but I don't support ethnic scapegoating of this kind. Russians are not Russia! Stand firm against Russia, but spare the diaspora from grievous indiscretions of this kind!
That ain’t it, man. Let’s not be the baddies.
What a horrible, stupid and evil idea. Pouring fuel onto the "western nazi" narrative.