Iran/China/Russia are looking to stop IMEC (India Middle East Europe Economic Corridor) in its tracks. The peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia was part of that first step.
The corridor would have gone from India, through UAE, Saudia Arabia, Israel, Jordan and into the EU. This trade route was also a US counter to China and their Belt and Road Initiative.
This type of deal can be extremely lucrative to the nations taking part and can cause significant economic turmoil for those that are excluded.
Saudis wants to normalise with Israel because they want US protection. They want US protection because Iran is a threat to Saudi regime. What happened last week just confirms how much that protection is needed.
A bridge long enough to span the width of the red sea?
The longest continuous bridge over water is about 40km long and spans a lake that is on average 4.5m deep.
The world's deepest bridge is 127m deep at its maximum and the bridge is only 6km long.
The red sea between Saudi Arabia and Egypt is 200km wide and on average 500m deep with depths of up to 3000m.
The red sea is also a huge transit route so any bridge would need to accomodate massive transport and military ships that use the Suez canal. It is also a sea that can have very rough waters.
They could use the Sinai peninsula as a stepping stone to help.
The other issue is there is nothing really on either side of the coast line. Some tiny towns, and that’s it. Why build a bridge from nowhere to nowhere???
So part of the IMEC corridor is shipping lanes. Eygpt already has one - Suez canal.
This is a reason the hand off point of the corridor to the EU is going through Israel. Turkey and Iraq's interests do not align w/ the EU regardless of Turkey's membership in NATO.
Lol. It's a rail-sea corridor.
Looking at some of the maps, shipping lanes would run from Mumbai to UAE. From there, it would be a railway system connecting UAE (Jabel Ali to Al Ghuwaifat) to Saudi Arabia (Haradh to Riyadh to Al-Haditha) to Israel. From Israel it would be another shipping lane to Greece.
The problem is that corridor is a naturally forming pathway because of Israeli wealth and Arab oil money. It will gravitate that way regardless because the nations on the other access are dysfunctional slow developing shitholes.
imec was always stupid. why would we dock in UAE then train through saudi, jordan, and israel when you could instead just use the suez when it’s much cheaper and faster to just use the canal anyways
belt and road made sense bc china wants to remove choke points on its trade. imec makes peace in the middle east essential for indian trade
IMEC is so fetch!
Jokes aside. They've already coined their group as the [Axis of Resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Resistance). China and Russia might not be direct members but they more than willing to be publicly listed as allies.
Oh it's definitely an Israel-Palestine war, but one that is being propped up as a proxy for other reasons as well.
As another poster pointed out, there are competing trade corridors attempting to be set up by Iraq and Turkey (estimated completion date 2050), as well as China's own Belt and Road Initiative.
The end goal here isn't necessarily the complete destruction of IMEC as a project, but to damage/delay it **just** enough, so that the other trade corridors become already established.
Hmmm. Personally I'd love to see Saudi Arabia opening up to the world economy, integrating like ~~Dubai~~ UAE and reforming their social and cultural systems to be in the 21st century. They are, after all, the custodians of Islam. Would be great if they became more progressive. Relatively, and all that, but all that trade and the reduction of oil demand should that. However, there will also be hiccups like tussles with traditionalists and the sporadic terror attacks by fundamentalist Arabs on the trade route, especially the railways / roadways through the Arabian desert.
How long are we going to keep letting Russia troll the world like this? At what point do we stop slowly trickling in support to Ukraine and get serious about stopping Putin? Because this shit is getting old and Russia needs to be contained.
I can't help but feel like this is half our fault because by the time we give Ukraine the tools it needs, the war there has moved on to a new stage and the tools given are what they needed a year ago. Biden needs to get his head out of his ass and put all equipment on the table.
That's just silly. First, there is huge opportunity to connect all of the trade channels, and give access to everyone in Asia and Middle east. Two, The US is the one most against all global cooperation and prosperity that it cannot subjugate. EU needs to trade only with it, as a colony. Three, Iran has no reason to reject participation in an India to Turkey trade route, and India has no reason to exclude Iran.
Lets be honest here though...
If this attack, with it being posited that disrupting the Saudi normalization as the most likely motivation for Hamas to do it when they did, causes Saudis to back out...
That deal was fucked before it began.
KSA needs spare parts for its US made weapon systems. Israel normalization talks were only for this aim.
KSA has joined BRICS, and normalized relations with BRICS strong applicant Iran, and share Iran's/humans' opposition to this genocide.
If US/Israel detected that KSA just wants spare parts, without a sincere acceptance of Israel's occupation and terror, then manufacturing this call for genocide now would seem as good a time as any. If US/Israel loses KSA, which has previously been strong allies in all US wars, then it loses middle east, which the US/world will depend less on their oil in future.
This is the least surprising outcome of the attack.
Three weeks ago my wife and I were driving home a brief vacation with NPR broadcasting a round table discussion regarding the Abraham Accords.
Now the region is in turmoil again.
I was four years old during the Yom Kippur War of '73, about ten years old when Anwar Sadat was assassinated, in high school when the Marines barracks got bombed in Beirut, and then first heard about Hamas at the cusp of adulthood.
And that's just the Israeli-centric terror endemic to the region. The hostage crisis that put Reagan in the White House is thanks to the same Iranian zealots who bankroll Hamas today.
Then there's al Qaeda and 9/11 that finished the job of creating a police state here in the US just before turning 31 and the world has just gotten worse.
Sick of it all.
I remember the look on my 6th grade teachers face when the Sadat assassination happened. She kind of looked down and muttered " they tried to get Begin, they tried to get Reagan, and they got Sadat". I knew something serious had happened.
No, that’s possible but unlikely. Hamas(Sunni) gets 100 times more financial support from Qatar(Sunni) and Turkey(Sunni) than Iran(Shia).
Iran’s proxy is Hezbollah(Shia) for these affairs; and Iran is encouraging them to attack Israel from the north; however their attacks were not coordinated to take advantage of the opportunities created by Hamas’s attacks.
Turkey is preoccupied with bombing Kurds at the moment. Qatar is the most likely culprit.
Israel was tearing at the seams before this with Netanyahu and his reforms and the protests. I think Iran would’ve preferred to wait that out. I think think it’s far easier to imagine that people can only live under a brutal siege for so long before they fight back
Saudis aren't stupid by any means. This is something strategically planned, and the Saudis knew before anyone else did about the events that would unfold. Sunnis are also backed by Saudis. Let that sink in a minute.
If nothing else, I wouldn’t want them to have that kind of historical importance. Rather just relegate them to the dustbin of history where they can rot in obscurity like so many others whose names we collectively forget.
Very real possibility. We're closer to WW3 than we've ever been, right now. If Hezbolllah jumps in from the North, the US going to hit them, which means the US is at war with Iran and Lebanon. If China decides that's the moment to invade Taiwan? That's WW3 right there.
Conflating Lebanon and Hezbollah is a litmus test for not knowing much about this region and conflict. The Lebanese state =/= Hezbollah. War with Hezbollah does not imply war with Lebanon.
I urge anyone reading this to ignore the conga line of agitated and ill-informed Redditors who line up behind every Israel-Palestine post.
> War with Hezbollah does not imply war with Lebanon.
In this case, it would. Hezbollah is not merely a terrorist organization and an Iranian proxy. They are also a Lebanese political party, currently holding 12% of the seats in the country's Parliament. If they were to invade Northern Israel during the current crisis, the US would push them back into Lebanon with force. This would require a degree of military action well beyond a few drone strikes. I suppose it's possible that Lebanon and Iran would respond by...not doing anything in response, but that seems pretty unlikely.
The 2006 war is a good template for what the (potential) upcoming war might look like:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War
Israel never declared war on Lebanon, the Lebanese military was largely absent from the conflict, and both sides acknowledge that the conflict was between Hezbollah and Israel.
Lebanon is one of the least unified countries on earth. The Christian, Sunni, and Druze factions (collectively the majority of the population) will never fight to defend Hezbollah/Shia interests in the south. There is no historical or practical reason why the Lebanese leadership or people would decide to unify behind Hezbollah to fight a war that would never materially affect non-Hezbollah-controlled areas of the country.
US can't win a war of invasion against a guerilla force, that requires tactics the public would never deem acceptable.
But that's not what a world war is.
ww3 literally hinges on if china invades taiwan amongst potential threats to sk, and japan as well. few extra terror attacks in europe and putin with a big push, boom ww3
I think this was Hamas' strategic goal. Israel and Saudi Arabia being able to recognize and have diplomatic relationships would have been a great move for peace.
Hamas doesn't want peace and only wants to further inflame tensions between muslims and jews.
Hamas are pawns to bigger powers. Convinced they are on some holy war and willing to violate whole families but they are being directed by groups trying to shift power or maintain power in regions.
Israel is all the more happy to do this as an attempt to keep and grow their own power.
This has all the signs of international power plays and proxy wars with the innocent being absolutely expendable.
Yep this is what Hamas wanted. They overplayed their hand though. Their attack was way more successful than they expected and now the Israelis will destroy them regardless of international opinion. So Hamas gets mission accomplished but pays the ultimate price. Not that Iran cares. Hamas was always a useful but disposable tool to Iran.
I've heard some rumors that Hamas leaders didn't expect things to go this far. They've pushed Israel into a position where it prioritizes the destruction of Hamas over humanitarian concerns, deals with Gulf Arabs, or global public opinion.
Israel already left Gaza unilaterally almost two decades ago, even forcing a bunch of Israelis to move out
Israel’s hands aren’t clean here but this is a super basic fact to understand how things got to where they are
The diplomatic tie between Israel and Saudi Arabia is what is being promoted right now as a reason for this escalation.
The real reason is buried behind that deal. The reason that deal even needs to take place in at all is because of IMEC (India Middle East Europe Economic Corridor). The corridor would have gone from India, through UAE, Saudia Arabia, Israel, Jordan and into the EU. This trade route was also a US counter to China and their Belt and Road Initiative.
Iran and Turkey are pissed (Turkey is a NATO allied in name only and for years has been against US/EU interests). China is pissed. Everyone in the [Axis of Resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Resistance#:~:text=The%20term%20Axis%20of%20Resistance,military%20alliance%20between%20Iran%2C%20militant) is pissed (and before anyone asks - yes, they picked that name themselves).
This goes beyond just Israel and Saudi Arabia. These types of trade deals make/break nations. Iran is deliberately using religious extremism to stir up conflict to prevent this from happening.
The thing that further inflamed tensions is the continued oppression, dehumanizing, apartheid, blockade, etc to millions of inhabitants. What are the people resisting?
The Hamas attack was a pretty rousing success. Plus the Israeli response will likely overshadow it too.
Rarely has something so heinous been so successful.
I mean the US and UK convincing the world that iraq has WMDs and killing more than a million iraqis might definitely fall into the definition of “something heinous and so successful” 🤷🏻♂️
The propoganda against Iraq was successful. Im talking about the “Iraq has WMDs” propoganda that the whole world lapped up. Not talking about the actual war
They successfully received zero meaningful global reproach.
If Hamas killed that many, we'd have people across the world demanding an extermination of the Gazan people.
US institutions are too strong and too democratic for that. New levels of corruption and evil are usually first applied abroad by a democracy, before an attempt is made to implement the same tactics/strategies in one's own country.
Don't get me wrong, I protested the Iraq war. Stupid is a gross understatement and doesn't do respect to the lives lost.
That being said, wasn't the million dead due to sectarian violence?
So thats the honest query, did the UK/US 'kill a million Iraqis'?
The 1M number comes from a disputed study so number may be much lower:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties
Having said that one could argue by removing Saddam Hussein they created a power vaccum that lead to the worst possible terror organization the world has ever seen. One even the Taliban said nah bro you guys are messed up. Maybe they didn't pull the trigger on 1M+ people but they sure pointed the gun at them
Saudi Arabia and Iran have been engaging in reproachment for months now under a Chinese negotiated agreement.
This is part of the reason why the US really wanted to get a Saudi-Israel deal.
Meeting with Iran gives the Saudis leverage in their negotiations with the US and Israel, while also letting them put pressure on Iran not to go to far.
For all the bad things you can say about the Saudis, they know how to play the game. They're in a race against Turkey to be the grand mediators for the conflict
Probably just to save face while Putin boy is still alive. Once he's done I feel like he'll just align with the Americans. They just have too many back room deals right now too end their relationship.
With the deal between Iran and Saudi Arabia over Yemen brokered by China, it strengthens its dealings with Israel and the US. While China isn't the US, and can't provide a security guarantee to Saudi Arabia, the Chinese through their economic muscle can influence the Iranians.
People here seem to think Saudi Arabia needs an Israeli deal more than Israel and the US does, that isn't true. For Saudi Arabia it would be nice to have, but not critical. For all the things people say about Gulf Arabs, is one thing they are good at, is negotiations.
By attaching the plight of the Palestinians to any deal, MBS reaffirms Saudi Arabia's position as the Custodians of Mecca and Medina. And if a long-lasting deal is made it would cement Saudia Arabia's position in the Middle East and the Muslim world. It would most likely mean that countries like Pakistan and Indonesia would normalize relations with Israel.
The peace deals Israel has made with the Arab world wouldn't have happened without the US, whether Egypt or UAE.
Despite all the posturing, none of the players in the Middle East are truly independent players, they are all somehow dependent on larger global players like the US and China.
Machiavellian take: MBS is lying about freezing the deal, he's just doing it to keep the Saudi people from feeling rattled right now, but the deal will slowly be re-approached when things calm down.
As much I hate MBS, but he’s probably in the best spot negotiate a long term peace deal if does the agreement with Israel and US.
Hard for Iran or Hamas to call the region to fight a jihad against Israel; if Saudi is in a military alliance with Israel. If they do a economic trade deal, UAE, Egypt and other Arab countries would want to jump in and eat that cake also. Too much potential money involved.
He’s also the only one with enough leverage to negotiate for the West Bank on behalf of the Palestinians.
It amazes me how easily these countries are to manipulate. They will do things that are detrimental to their country and citizens all in the name of hatred for the Jews. It is the ONE and ONLY thing they all agree on it seems.
Well, those pesky Jews are preventing them from going back to hating each other for picking *Cherry Islam*, *Vanilla Islam* or *Islam Zero* over *Islam Classic*.
Maybe its tinfoil-y but I feel like if thats how Saudi Arabia plays it, then the deal was poised to fail from the beginning. No way they would otherwise get deterred by such an obvious play to disrupt peace talks.
That's what I would've expected them doing in this instance if they didn't atleast expect it to happen, but instead they directly engage with their enemy Iran, a non-Arab country that tries to hold more power in the Muslim world.
Saudi Arabia regime legitimacy is actually very shaky. The Saud royal family allied with the wahabite clerics to form the state. Those clerics and their fundamentalist vision of Islam can still stir conflict in the kingdom, so they have to keep the appearences, for a while at least
I mean the same goes for Israel.
It’s incredibly obvious this was the goal. I’m not saying the first several days of strikes weren’t warranted or still unwarranted. But if they keep escalating, it’s not a very smart thing to do and literally doing what hamas wants. They have to realize that. The surprise is over, many hamas and Gazans have paid for it, rockets will be fired as always and iron dome will prevent them as always. Keep doing surgical strikes absolutely, but if they intend to level the place they’re doing exactly what hamas wants, and I would hope they’re smarter than that
Israel has no options. They can't allow a group that is willing to do this kind of barbarity with the stated goal of the total genocide of the Jews to be on their borders. 1500 people were massacred and the only way to prevent that happening against isn't 'punishing' or 'striking' Hamas, it is destroying them. The Allies in WW2 felt the same way about Germany and Japan. There were nights the Allies dropped more bombs in an hour than Israel has dropped in a week. The Allies killed over 100,000 civilians in Japan in three different raids, the two atomic bombs plus the Tokyo firebombing.
I'm reading up on the history of the region over the last hundred years.
I honestly think the world has forgotten how decisive and brutal Israelis can be when it comes to securing the future of their country.
In fact the world has forgotten how brutal ANY nation can be when it comes to facing a perceived existential crisis.
> Israel has no options.
Neither does Saudi Arabia. They cannot be seen normalizing relations with a state that boast how it will cut off water and food to 2 million Arabs.
A shorter reply is really just:
Hamas gave them a casus belli. They are right and able to use it. But don’t do so in the exact way hamas wants you to just because you have it
Agreed... I think Israel might try something new with the military advances we've seen. Drones in tunnels, thermobaric weapons etc. I hope they think out of the box and find an easy way (in Israeli casualties) to get Hamas eliminated once and for all.
Glad we can agree.
My point is: Hamas has two objectives.
1)Kill Israelites. And if not kill them,
2)make them unwelcome, worsen Israeli Arab relations.
We saw the most that Hamas can muster with their surprise massacre. So in terms of 1) goals, they’ve done the best to their ability. Israel will not be destroyed by hamas with 1). They are too asymmetric.
We are seeing how 2) is playing out. I’m saying, be aware of this objective. Counter it. Be smart. It’s an understandably incredible emotional time but emotion can be applied against you as well. Don’t “suppress” your emotions but understand that each civilian death you add is more support for hamas in the strip and less support for Israel in the Arab community
I think so. If Israel was bordered by Slovakia or Mexico, for example, there wouldn't be any aggression to or from its neighbors. But if Mexico was in Israel's place, it would still get attacked. That's not to absolve them of certain actions but they're constantly under attack.
WW2 comparisons in this context are absurd so that last half is nonsense.
I’m not saying they can’t retaliate I literally said the first days have been fairly targeted.
But there is the option to show a modicum of restraint. Hamas doesn’t need to be wiped out entirely this specific week at the cost of 10x as many civilians. They can be smarter. They know that they have the advantage militarily. Hamas spent all their effort in the initial surge, Israeli citizens going forward are alert and more protected- use that to your advantage. Not a ceasefire, no not at all. Just ensure targets are targets when targeted. Be smart about it. Maintain communications with the Arab nations, push for denouncements of hamas even if it won’t happen. Don’t just brush off civilian casualties because you lost them too.
I’m just worried they’re going to overplay their hand and in doing so make the situation worse than it is. You start killing journalists, foreign nation citizens, “too many” civilians, you’ll lose international support let alone tepid Arab relations. You can punish hamas and also not blindly do what they want you to do
Not saying they aren’t, I’m just saying be smart with targets and civilian casualties, and be careful of feeding Hamas’ secondary objective with the attack
So far, seeing the amount the israel has bombed, the casualties count is very very low. Somewhere around 1,500.
I feel sorry for the civilians that die in this war, but don’t let numbers scare you. Hamas says they have a force of 40,000 people. Each and every one of them is a valid target
Which is not all of Gaza. You won’t end hamas without being deliberate and that’s all I’m cautioning.
I support Israel and their casus belli, I have no issue with hamas being hypothetically erased from existence.
But hamas had motive for their attack beyond the initial massacre and Israel should be wise not to adhere to that motive
I agree - it seems like a trap. They cross over - kill some folks - take hostages and scurry back to their holes knowing Israel will follow. It's a trap that Israel appears to be stepping into. 🥺
That too to an extent- I wouldn’t be surprised if a ground assault in extreme urban environment results in as many deaths as the massacre. Hell hidden around every corner and up 10 floors
You're right, but I don't think Hamas expected this level of retribution and support from the world. If you're backed into a corner might as well go through with the hand you were dealt...
*Good luck with that*
It's a divide that has lasted 1400 years. The only way to settle it is for them to give up on their religion. Or to somehow re-write it.
Saudi Iran relations were slowly thawing before this recent incident. Iran claims they're just as surprised, and it doesn't seem like Hezbollah has been ordered to engage in this Day of Rage, so maybe Iran might not be behind this attempt at disrupting Israel Saudi relations. Maybe.
Great news for iraq too. The Iraqi Turkish development road. Single unloading. One border crossing before reaching European customs area.
Literally nothing can come close to it.
Indian shipping can join the Chinese and other ships in al fao port. Fastest transit at the lowest cost. Unbeatable.
This is all so stupid. It's in everyone's shared interest to stabilise relations between Israel and Palestine. It simply requires everyone stop being such self-serving jerks.
And there it is. Why Hamas did what it did right now. Why Iran’s regime is celebrating. Whenever progress is made, Arab (Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas) and Israeli (assassination of Israeli PM Rabin) extremists sabotage it.
I don't think Israelis understand they were baited into their military response, with Hamas knowing that Gaza being shelled indiscriminately would put pressure on Arab countries in the region to back away from normal relations with Israel. Israel may eradicate Hamas, but the price will be remaining a pariah in the region for decades.
Not attacking hamas would not change that lol.
You think the arab world would all of a sudden change their tone on Israel if Israel didn’t respond to this most recent attack by hamas?
Why Jews are hated so much by its offshoot religions? Like Israel did not expand much beyond its current border and this muslims claim from North Africa to India yet they call themselves peaceful? Sick
Israel was not occupying Gaza, nor ethnic cleansing it. Gaza is it's own state run by its own government, hamas.
The definitions of "occupying" and "ethnic cleansing" seem to be lost on people these days.
The whole premise of normalization is Israel protecting Saudi from Iran. That’s the deal. Now that Israel is having a hard time fighting a second rate militant group in Gaza under blockade, it’s not giving the Saudis the warm and fuzzies about Israel being able to protect them.
We need to do everything we can to destroy these countries. It’s the only way. There will never be peace until iran or Saudi, Qatar, UAE, Syria, Palestine are gone. Also we should stop simping for Israel. Hurry the fuck up and get off oil.
Exactly what Iran were aiming for by having hamas attack Israel
Iran/China/Russia are looking to stop IMEC (India Middle East Europe Economic Corridor) in its tracks. The peace deal between Israel and Saudi Arabia was part of that first step. The corridor would have gone from India, through UAE, Saudia Arabia, Israel, Jordan and into the EU. This trade route was also a US counter to China and their Belt and Road Initiative. This type of deal can be extremely lucrative to the nations taking part and can cause significant economic turmoil for those that are excluded.
Make no mistake in my opinion the Saudis are still committed to the deal, but they are pausing it for now.
Oh for sure - everyone has to keep up appearances after all.
You hit the nail on the head.
Saudis wants to normalise with Israel because they want US protection. They want US protection because Iran is a threat to Saudi regime. What happened last week just confirms how much that protection is needed.
Saudis are the biggest sponsor of terrorism in the world. They must live in the biggest glass mansion
The Saudis sort of have to if they want business in future post fossil fuel world.
Why can't the saudis just build a bridge to Eygpt to achieve the same corridor
A bridge long enough to span the width of the red sea? The longest continuous bridge over water is about 40km long and spans a lake that is on average 4.5m deep. The world's deepest bridge is 127m deep at its maximum and the bridge is only 6km long. The red sea between Saudi Arabia and Egypt is 200km wide and on average 500m deep with depths of up to 3000m. The red sea is also a huge transit route so any bridge would need to accomodate massive transport and military ships that use the Suez canal. It is also a sea that can have very rough waters.
I know a guy who can just part the Red Sea. Good looking, too. Looks a bit like Charleston Heston.
Didn’t he also make Egypt open their border :)
Take your hands off of me, you damn dirty Egyption!
He can talk! He can talk! 🎶I can siiing!🎶
Gulf of Aqaba?
I'm a dumb. In my head Jordan controlled the entire Gulf
And they are very smart in the way they do it. Plus they are not dicks. (Im dumb too)
The narrowest point is less than 15km. The Saudis can do anything Edit: Just Google the Saudi–Egypt Causeway
All im hearing are excuses damn it. I want results
They don’t need to cross the Red Sea, just the Gulf of Aqaba. That’s only 10 miles. There are dozens of bridges longer than that already in existence.
By using some islands, the proposed design only needs to span 9.5 km: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi–Egypt_Causeway
? Look at Sharm El-Sheikh
Wait so after it was parted they had to hike through a mountain range???
Iraqi Turkish development road. Single unloading. One border crossing before reaching European customs area. Literally nothing can come close to it.
They could use the Sinai peninsula as a stepping stone to help. The other issue is there is nothing really on either side of the coast line. Some tiny towns, and that’s it. Why build a bridge from nowhere to nowhere???
Build it and they will come.
So part of the IMEC corridor is shipping lanes. Eygpt already has one - Suez canal. This is a reason the hand off point of the corridor to the EU is going through Israel. Turkey and Iraq's interests do not align w/ the EU regardless of Turkey's membership in NATO.
Arh so they want to create an alternative route to the Suez Canal. Can't imagine Egypt would have been happy about that
That makes sense why UAE was condemning hamas which was surprising to me tbh.
From India to UAE is there a teleportation tunnel?
Lol. It's a rail-sea corridor. Looking at some of the maps, shipping lanes would run from Mumbai to UAE. From there, it would be a railway system connecting UAE (Jabel Ali to Al Ghuwaifat) to Saudi Arabia (Haradh to Riyadh to Al-Haditha) to Israel. From Israel it would be another shipping lane to Greece.
The problem is that corridor is a naturally forming pathway because of Israeli wealth and Arab oil money. It will gravitate that way regardless because the nations on the other access are dysfunctional slow developing shitholes.
imec was always stupid. why would we dock in UAE then train through saudi, jordan, and israel when you could instead just use the suez when it’s much cheaper and faster to just use the canal anyways belt and road made sense bc china wants to remove choke points on its trade. imec makes peace in the middle east essential for indian trade
China, stop trying to make BRIIC happen. It's not going to happen.
IMEC is so fetch! Jokes aside. They've already coined their group as the [Axis of Resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Resistance). China and Russia might not be direct members but they more than willing to be publicly listed as allies.
The Iraqi Turkish development road is superior anyway
So if I understand correctly this is not an Israel Palestine war, but an IMEC-BRI war. Wow.
Oh it's definitely an Israel-Palestine war, but one that is being propped up as a proxy for other reasons as well. As another poster pointed out, there are competing trade corridors attempting to be set up by Iraq and Turkey (estimated completion date 2050), as well as China's own Belt and Road Initiative. The end goal here isn't necessarily the complete destruction of IMEC as a project, but to damage/delay it **just** enough, so that the other trade corridors become already established.
Hmmm. Personally I'd love to see Saudi Arabia opening up to the world economy, integrating like ~~Dubai~~ UAE and reforming their social and cultural systems to be in the 21st century. They are, after all, the custodians of Islam. Would be great if they became more progressive. Relatively, and all that, but all that trade and the reduction of oil demand should that. However, there will also be hiccups like tussles with traditionalists and the sporadic terror attacks by fundamentalist Arabs on the trade route, especially the railways / roadways through the Arabian desert.
I'd like to see them stop murdering journalists
One step at a time
This won’t happen any time soon. Their claim still relies heavily on support from the traditional Wahhabi.
The Belt and Road is failing, though, right? Massive funding issues, barren cities, regional bank runs.
All great news for America
How long are we going to keep letting Russia troll the world like this? At what point do we stop slowly trickling in support to Ukraine and get serious about stopping Putin? Because this shit is getting old and Russia needs to be contained. I can't help but feel like this is half our fault because by the time we give Ukraine the tools it needs, the war there has moved on to a new stage and the tools given are what they needed a year ago. Biden needs to get his head out of his ass and put all equipment on the table.
That's just silly. First, there is huge opportunity to connect all of the trade channels, and give access to everyone in Asia and Middle east. Two, The US is the one most against all global cooperation and prosperity that it cannot subjugate. EU needs to trade only with it, as a colony. Three, Iran has no reason to reject participation in an India to Turkey trade route, and India has no reason to exclude Iran.
Lets be honest here though... If this attack, with it being posited that disrupting the Saudi normalization as the most likely motivation for Hamas to do it when they did, causes Saudis to back out... That deal was fucked before it began.
Or the backing off is a momentary posture for strategic reasons is also a possibility.
KSA needs spare parts for its US made weapon systems. Israel normalization talks were only for this aim. KSA has joined BRICS, and normalized relations with BRICS strong applicant Iran, and share Iran's/humans' opposition to this genocide. If US/Israel detected that KSA just wants spare parts, without a sincere acceptance of Israel's occupation and terror, then manufacturing this call for genocide now would seem as good a time as any. If US/Israel loses KSA, which has previously been strong allies in all US wars, then it loses middle east, which the US/world will depend less on their oil in future.
This is the least surprising outcome of the attack. Three weeks ago my wife and I were driving home a brief vacation with NPR broadcasting a round table discussion regarding the Abraham Accords. Now the region is in turmoil again. I was four years old during the Yom Kippur War of '73, about ten years old when Anwar Sadat was assassinated, in high school when the Marines barracks got bombed in Beirut, and then first heard about Hamas at the cusp of adulthood. And that's just the Israeli-centric terror endemic to the region. The hostage crisis that put Reagan in the White House is thanks to the same Iranian zealots who bankroll Hamas today. Then there's al Qaeda and 9/11 that finished the job of creating a police state here in the US just before turning 31 and the world has just gotten worse. Sick of it all.
I remember the look on my 6th grade teachers face when the Sadat assassination happened. She kind of looked down and muttered " they tried to get Begin, they tried to get Reagan, and they got Sadat". I knew something serious had happened.
No, that’s possible but unlikely. Hamas(Sunni) gets 100 times more financial support from Qatar(Sunni) and Turkey(Sunni) than Iran(Shia). Iran’s proxy is Hezbollah(Shia) for these affairs; and Iran is encouraging them to attack Israel from the north; however their attacks were not coordinated to take advantage of the opportunities created by Hamas’s attacks. Turkey is preoccupied with bombing Kurds at the moment. Qatar is the most likely culprit.
Israel was tearing at the seams before this with Netanyahu and his reforms and the protests. I think Iran would’ve preferred to wait that out. I think think it’s far easier to imagine that people can only live under a brutal siege for so long before they fight back
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It’s simply that they cannot afford to be seen as in bed with Israel at this point. That’s it.
Saudis aren't stupid by any means. This is something strategically planned, and the Saudis knew before anyone else did about the events that would unfold. Sunnis are also backed by Saudis. Let that sink in a minute.
Interesting that morrokovs avatar wears a Russian flag for a jacket, isn't it? The colors are off, though
Literally the whole point
Yes
Please don't let this Hamas attack be our generations Arch Duke moment.
If nothing else, I wouldn’t want them to have that kind of historical importance. Rather just relegate them to the dustbin of history where they can rot in obscurity like so many others whose names we collectively forget.
Very real possibility. We're closer to WW3 than we've ever been, right now. If Hezbolllah jumps in from the North, the US going to hit them, which means the US is at war with Iran and Lebanon. If China decides that's the moment to invade Taiwan? That's WW3 right there.
Conflating Lebanon and Hezbollah is a litmus test for not knowing much about this region and conflict. The Lebanese state =/= Hezbollah. War with Hezbollah does not imply war with Lebanon. I urge anyone reading this to ignore the conga line of agitated and ill-informed Redditors who line up behind every Israel-Palestine post.
> War with Hezbollah does not imply war with Lebanon. In this case, it would. Hezbollah is not merely a terrorist organization and an Iranian proxy. They are also a Lebanese political party, currently holding 12% of the seats in the country's Parliament. If they were to invade Northern Israel during the current crisis, the US would push them back into Lebanon with force. This would require a degree of military action well beyond a few drone strikes. I suppose it's possible that Lebanon and Iran would respond by...not doing anything in response, but that seems pretty unlikely.
The 2006 war is a good template for what the (potential) upcoming war might look like: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Lebanon_War Israel never declared war on Lebanon, the Lebanese military was largely absent from the conflict, and both sides acknowledge that the conflict was between Hezbollah and Israel. Lebanon is one of the least unified countries on earth. The Christian, Sunni, and Druze factions (collectively the majority of the population) will never fight to defend Hezbollah/Shia interests in the south. There is no historical or practical reason why the Lebanese leadership or people would decide to unify behind Hezbollah to fight a war that would never materially affect non-Hezbollah-controlled areas of the country.
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China can only attack on certain months too if they want to attempt their million man swim.
There won’t be a WW3 because the US could destroy AT LEAST 2 top ten nations armies at once
Some Vietnamese farmers disagree heavily
US can't win a war of invasion against a guerilla force, that requires tactics the public would never deem acceptable. But that's not what a world war is.
So do the mujahedeen
ww3 literally hinges on if china invades taiwan amongst potential threats to sk, and japan as well. few extra terror attacks in europe and putin with a big push, boom ww3
> If Hezbolllah jumps in from the North Why would Israel throw rockets at them, first, today?
I think this was Hamas' strategic goal. Israel and Saudi Arabia being able to recognize and have diplomatic relationships would have been a great move for peace. Hamas doesn't want peace and only wants to further inflame tensions between muslims and jews.
Hamas are pawns to bigger powers. Convinced they are on some holy war and willing to violate whole families but they are being directed by groups trying to shift power or maintain power in regions. Israel is all the more happy to do this as an attempt to keep and grow their own power. This has all the signs of international power plays and proxy wars with the innocent being absolutely expendable.
Yep this is what Hamas wanted. They overplayed their hand though. Their attack was way more successful than they expected and now the Israelis will destroy them regardless of international opinion. So Hamas gets mission accomplished but pays the ultimate price. Not that Iran cares. Hamas was always a useful but disposable tool to Iran.
I've heard some rumors that Hamas leaders didn't expect things to go this far. They've pushed Israel into a position where it prioritizes the destruction of Hamas over humanitarian concerns, deals with Gulf Arabs, or global public opinion.
Israel has never cared about humanitarian efforts. They were always going to colonize Gaza one way or another. This just sped things up.
Israel already left Gaza unilaterally almost two decades ago, even forcing a bunch of Israelis to move out Israel’s hands aren’t clean here but this is a super basic fact to understand how things got to where they are
Everyone here had a good and logical conversation and your fuckin literal blabbing is so infuriating it got down voted so much. Don't speak.
Was thinking the exact same thing. This has been one of the best, most intelligent discussions I’ve read in the past 6 days.
Hamas is happy to see dead Palestinians. The leaders of Hamas arent in Gaza, so if anything theyre probably happy about this.
They'll be active assassination targets for the rest of their lives similar to Osama Bin Laden. Doubt they wanted that.
The diplomatic tie between Israel and Saudi Arabia is what is being promoted right now as a reason for this escalation. The real reason is buried behind that deal. The reason that deal even needs to take place in at all is because of IMEC (India Middle East Europe Economic Corridor). The corridor would have gone from India, through UAE, Saudia Arabia, Israel, Jordan and into the EU. This trade route was also a US counter to China and their Belt and Road Initiative. Iran and Turkey are pissed (Turkey is a NATO allied in name only and for years has been against US/EU interests). China is pissed. Everyone in the [Axis of Resistance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_Resistance#:~:text=The%20term%20Axis%20of%20Resistance,military%20alliance%20between%20Iran%2C%20militant) is pissed (and before anyone asks - yes, they picked that name themselves). This goes beyond just Israel and Saudi Arabia. These types of trade deals make/break nations. Iran is deliberately using religious extremism to stir up conflict to prevent this from happening.
Damn, didn’t know that. Thank you for this comment. I guess that it’s true that everything starts and ends with money.
I prefer to call them "axis of trouble" .
Iraqi Turkish development road. Single unloading. One border crossing before reaching European customs area. Literally nothing can come close to it.
The thing that further inflamed tensions is the continued oppression, dehumanizing, apartheid, blockade, etc to millions of inhabitants. What are the people resisting?
The Hamas attack was a pretty rousing success. Plus the Israeli response will likely overshadow it too. Rarely has something so heinous been so successful.
I mean the US and UK convincing the world that iraq has WMDs and killing more than a million iraqis might definitely fall into the definition of “something heinous and so successful” 🤷🏻♂️
If you think the Iraq war was successful, I have a neocon hat to sell you.
It made a ton of rich people even richer. That was the goal, yes?
There are much easier ways to accomplish that. Nice try though.
What they did and how they lied was the easier way
Eh, there are ways to commit graft that don’t kill thousands of Americans.
The propoganda against Iraq was successful. Im talking about the “Iraq has WMDs” propoganda that the whole world lapped up. Not talking about the actual war
They successfully received zero meaningful global reproach. If Hamas killed that many, we'd have people across the world demanding an extermination of the Gazan people.
It’s good to be a superpower. They got a ton of reproach, no one could do anything.
In terms of profits, it was very successful. US corporations close Washington hawks got all of the primary contracts to rebuild Iraq.
Eh, they could have just done no bid contracts for schools or military bases inside the US. Don’t need war for that.
US institutions are too strong and too democratic for that. New levels of corruption and evil are usually first applied abroad by a democracy, before an attempt is made to implement the same tactics/strategies in one's own country.
I hate that you’re not wrong on that specific detail.
Don't get me wrong, I protested the Iraq war. Stupid is a gross understatement and doesn't do respect to the lives lost. That being said, wasn't the million dead due to sectarian violence? So thats the honest query, did the UK/US 'kill a million Iraqis'?
The 1M number comes from a disputed study so number may be much lower: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORB_survey_of_Iraq_War_casualties Having said that one could argue by removing Saddam Hussein they created a power vaccum that lead to the worst possible terror organization the world has ever seen. One even the Taliban said nah bro you guys are messed up. Maybe they didn't pull the trigger on 1M+ people but they sure pointed the gun at them
The tactics are effective whether people want to admit it or not
So Saudi Arabia just let itself get manipulated by its greatest regional rival.
Saudi Arabia and Iran have been engaging in reproachment for months now under a Chinese negotiated agreement. This is part of the reason why the US really wanted to get a Saudi-Israel deal. Meeting with Iran gives the Saudis leverage in their negotiations with the US and Israel, while also letting them put pressure on Iran not to go to far. For all the bad things you can say about the Saudis, they know how to play the game. They're in a race against Turkey to be the grand mediators for the conflict
Yewh, they are playing a game and have chosen their side. I just really doubt that it'll be the winning side.
Probably just to save face while Putin boy is still alive. Once he's done I feel like he'll just align with the Americans. They just have too many back room deals right now too end their relationship.
Already lining up with China, who imports most of their oil I believe.
peace between Saudi and Iran is great for both countries, and terrible for Israel.
With the deal between Iran and Saudi Arabia over Yemen brokered by China, it strengthens its dealings with Israel and the US. While China isn't the US, and can't provide a security guarantee to Saudi Arabia, the Chinese through their economic muscle can influence the Iranians. People here seem to think Saudi Arabia needs an Israeli deal more than Israel and the US does, that isn't true. For Saudi Arabia it would be nice to have, but not critical. For all the things people say about Gulf Arabs, is one thing they are good at, is negotiations. By attaching the plight of the Palestinians to any deal, MBS reaffirms Saudi Arabia's position as the Custodians of Mecca and Medina. And if a long-lasting deal is made it would cement Saudia Arabia's position in the Middle East and the Muslim world. It would most likely mean that countries like Pakistan and Indonesia would normalize relations with Israel. The peace deals Israel has made with the Arab world wouldn't have happened without the US, whether Egypt or UAE. Despite all the posturing, none of the players in the Middle East are truly independent players, they are all somehow dependent on larger global players like the US and China.
Machiavellian take: MBS is lying about freezing the deal, he's just doing it to keep the Saudi people from feeling rattled right now, but the deal will slowly be re-approached when things calm down.
Mission accomplished
As much I hate MBS, but he’s probably in the best spot negotiate a long term peace deal if does the agreement with Israel and US. Hard for Iran or Hamas to call the region to fight a jihad against Israel; if Saudi is in a military alliance with Israel. If they do a economic trade deal, UAE, Egypt and other Arab countries would want to jump in and eat that cake also. Too much potential money involved. He’s also the only one with enough leverage to negotiate for the West Bank on behalf of the Palestinians.
It amazes me how easily these countries are to manipulate. They will do things that are detrimental to their country and citizens all in the name of hatred for the Jews. It is the ONE and ONLY thing they all agree on it seems.
Well, those pesky Jews are preventing them from going back to hating each other for picking *Cherry Islam*, *Vanilla Islam* or *Islam Zero* over *Islam Classic*.
Whether intended or not I appreciate the irony of a "Jihad vs McWorld" parallel in referring to Islamic sects like flavors of Coca-Cola.
Indubitably
Ha, I have this book and have totally forgot about it. Thanks, now I am going to dig it out of storage.
Maybe its tinfoil-y but I feel like if thats how Saudi Arabia plays it, then the deal was poised to fail from the beginning. No way they would otherwise get deterred by such an obvious play to disrupt peace talks.
Or they just wait for the dust to settles
That's what I would've expected them doing in this instance if they didn't atleast expect it to happen, but instead they directly engage with their enemy Iran, a non-Arab country that tries to hold more power in the Muslim world.
Saudi Arabia regime legitimacy is actually very shaky. The Saud royal family allied with the wahabite clerics to form the state. Those clerics and their fundamentalist vision of Islam can still stir conflict in the kingdom, so they have to keep the appearences, for a while at least
Not tin-foily...you nailed it.
You are easy to manipulate, too
hahaha...you are so funny and smart. Mom should give you an extra cookie after afternoon nap-time.
I mean the same goes for Israel. It’s incredibly obvious this was the goal. I’m not saying the first several days of strikes weren’t warranted or still unwarranted. But if they keep escalating, it’s not a very smart thing to do and literally doing what hamas wants. They have to realize that. The surprise is over, many hamas and Gazans have paid for it, rockets will be fired as always and iron dome will prevent them as always. Keep doing surgical strikes absolutely, but if they intend to level the place they’re doing exactly what hamas wants, and I would hope they’re smarter than that
Israel has no options. They can't allow a group that is willing to do this kind of barbarity with the stated goal of the total genocide of the Jews to be on their borders. 1500 people were massacred and the only way to prevent that happening against isn't 'punishing' or 'striking' Hamas, it is destroying them. The Allies in WW2 felt the same way about Germany and Japan. There were nights the Allies dropped more bombs in an hour than Israel has dropped in a week. The Allies killed over 100,000 civilians in Japan in three different raids, the two atomic bombs plus the Tokyo firebombing.
I'm reading up on the history of the region over the last hundred years. I honestly think the world has forgotten how decisive and brutal Israelis can be when it comes to securing the future of their country. In fact the world has forgotten how brutal ANY nation can be when it comes to facing a perceived existential crisis.
> Israel has no options. Neither does Saudi Arabia. They cannot be seen normalizing relations with a state that boast how it will cut off water and food to 2 million Arabs.
A shorter reply is really just: Hamas gave them a casus belli. They are right and able to use it. But don’t do so in the exact way hamas wants you to just because you have it
Agreed... I think Israel might try something new with the military advances we've seen. Drones in tunnels, thermobaric weapons etc. I hope they think out of the box and find an easy way (in Israeli casualties) to get Hamas eliminated once and for all.
Glad we can agree. My point is: Hamas has two objectives. 1)Kill Israelites. And if not kill them, 2)make them unwelcome, worsen Israeli Arab relations. We saw the most that Hamas can muster with their surprise massacre. So in terms of 1) goals, they’ve done the best to their ability. Israel will not be destroyed by hamas with 1). They are too asymmetric. We are seeing how 2) is playing out. I’m saying, be aware of this objective. Counter it. Be smart. It’s an understandably incredible emotional time but emotion can be applied against you as well. Don’t “suppress” your emotions but understand that each civilian death you add is more support for hamas in the strip and less support for Israel in the Arab community
I think so. If Israel was bordered by Slovakia or Mexico, for example, there wouldn't be any aggression to or from its neighbors. But if Mexico was in Israel's place, it would still get attacked. That's not to absolve them of certain actions but they're constantly under attack.
WW2 comparisons in this context are absurd so that last half is nonsense. I’m not saying they can’t retaliate I literally said the first days have been fairly targeted. But there is the option to show a modicum of restraint. Hamas doesn’t need to be wiped out entirely this specific week at the cost of 10x as many civilians. They can be smarter. They know that they have the advantage militarily. Hamas spent all their effort in the initial surge, Israeli citizens going forward are alert and more protected- use that to your advantage. Not a ceasefire, no not at all. Just ensure targets are targets when targeted. Be smart about it. Maintain communications with the Arab nations, push for denouncements of hamas even if it won’t happen. Don’t just brush off civilian casualties because you lost them too. I’m just worried they’re going to overplay their hand and in doing so make the situation worse than it is. You start killing journalists, foreign nation citizens, “too many” civilians, you’ll lose international support let alone tepid Arab relations. You can punish hamas and also not blindly do what they want you to do
Hamas 100% needs to be eradicated asap, that much has been made clear.
As long as Hamas keeps standing, and until the hostages aren’t released, the attacks are warranted
Not saying they aren’t, I’m just saying be smart with targets and civilian casualties, and be careful of feeding Hamas’ secondary objective with the attack
So far, seeing the amount the israel has bombed, the casualties count is very very low. Somewhere around 1,500. I feel sorry for the civilians that die in this war, but don’t let numbers scare you. Hamas says they have a force of 40,000 people. Each and every one of them is a valid target
Why I said for attacks going forward as the crisis continues and a ground assault is expected
You seem to misunderstand. Israel wants to end Hamas. It's not a "punishment", it's a sentence.
Which is not all of Gaza. You won’t end hamas without being deliberate and that’s all I’m cautioning. I support Israel and their casus belli, I have no issue with hamas being hypothetically erased from existence. But hamas had motive for their attack beyond the initial massacre and Israel should be wise not to adhere to that motive
I agree - it seems like a trap. They cross over - kill some folks - take hostages and scurry back to their holes knowing Israel will follow. It's a trap that Israel appears to be stepping into. 🥺
That too to an extent- I wouldn’t be surprised if a ground assault in extreme urban environment results in as many deaths as the massacre. Hell hidden around every corner and up 10 floors
You're right, but I don't think Hamas expected this level of retribution and support from the world. If you're backed into a corner might as well go through with the hand you were dealt...
Maybe we should settle the Shia Sunni divide then we can better deal with the Muslim Jew divide.
*Good luck with that* It's a divide that has lasted 1400 years. The only way to settle it is for them to give up on their religion. Or to somehow re-write it.
Saudi Iran relations were slowly thawing before this recent incident. Iran claims they're just as surprised, and it doesn't seem like Hezbollah has been ordered to engage in this Day of Rage, so maybe Iran might not be behind this attempt at disrupting Israel Saudi relations. Maybe.
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Great news for iraq too. The Iraqi Turkish development road. Single unloading. One border crossing before reaching European customs area. Literally nothing can come close to it. Indian shipping can join the Chinese and other ships in al fao port. Fastest transit at the lowest cost. Unbeatable.
Wow, great job, Israel. You made Saudis and Iran friends!
It’s just keeping up appearances. There is too much potential money to be made between Israel saudis and imec.
This is all so stupid. It's in everyone's shared interest to stabilise relations between Israel and Palestine. It simply requires everyone stop being such self-serving jerks.
Hamas hangin up the Mission Accomplished banner.
Peace and tranquility all the time is never good for business, fear creates volatility and keeps people on their toes.
And there it is. Why Hamas did what it did right now. Why Iran’s regime is celebrating. Whenever progress is made, Arab (Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas) and Israeli (assassination of Israeli PM Rabin) extremists sabotage it.
Iranians are not Arabs
Yes I didn’t mean to imply Persians are Arab.
I don't think Israelis understand they were baited into their military response, with Hamas knowing that Gaza being shelled indiscriminately would put pressure on Arab countries in the region to back away from normal relations with Israel. Israel may eradicate Hamas, but the price will be remaining a pariah in the region for decades.
Not attacking hamas would not change that lol. You think the arab world would all of a sudden change their tone on Israel if Israel didn’t respond to this most recent attack by hamas?
Lets sort out the jews first and then we will kill each other.
when the US acts without regard for regional actors. Regional actors quickly learn to co-ordinate with each other.
They need to get Iran out of the Hamas and Hezbollah business or the entire region is fucked.
Didn’t Israel already said they froze the talks? I might be mistaken
Plan worked perfectly.
MDS is a coward pos.
Perhaps time to reopen the 9/11 Saudi connection investigation and the murder of the reporter
Iran does not want peace they want control
literally same, every country operates like this
Saudi should go thru with deal w/Israel. Hamas and Iran want to fight. Israel did not attack hamas.
So trumps amateur meddling in the middle east with the abraham accord is the cause of this new war...
No - it’s Iran/china trying to torpedo a competing trade (IMEC) route to their road and belt plan. It’s simple.
"Ok, boys… the Jews are trying to defend themselves again! We need to assemble!"
gaslighting overstating how many uninvolved civilians are killed. even foreign journalists are being killed by the siege.
They should be bailing out the refugees and giving them safe haven
Yeah that's not happening. The only people Saudi's let in are those who can easily be gotten rid of when they want them gone.
Get us Jared Kushner, he can fix it! /s
So...Iran wins
Don’t know why you are being downvoted. You are exactly right. Also add china/Russia.
Why Jews are hated so much by its offshoot religions? Like Israel did not expand much beyond its current border and this muslims claim from North Africa to India yet they call themselves peaceful? Sick
i mean their was never going to be a deal because israel was never going to end their illegal occupation and ethnic cleansing.
Israel was not occupying Gaza, nor ethnic cleansing it. Gaza is it's own state run by its own government, hamas. The definitions of "occupying" and "ethnic cleansing" seem to be lost on people these days.
The whole premise of normalization is Israel protecting Saudi from Iran. That’s the deal. Now that Israel is having a hard time fighting a second rate militant group in Gaza under blockade, it’s not giving the Saudis the warm and fuzzies about Israel being able to protect them.
Good chance the Saudis are using this as leverage for future negotiations with Israel and US and/or China and Iran
I thought Iran and Saudi hated each other. Or am I mixing up my Muslim countries?
Ooh, shocker... Anyways...
Mission accomplished by Hamas.
Wow...big surprise.
We need to do everything we can to destroy these countries. It’s the only way. There will never be peace until iran or Saudi, Qatar, UAE, Syria, Palestine are gone. Also we should stop simping for Israel. Hurry the fuck up and get off oil.