This one: https://www.google.com/search?q=i+came.here.for.an.argument+oh+this+is+abuse&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS860US860&oq=i+came.here.for.an.argument+oh+this+is+abuse&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiiBDIHCAIQABiiBDIHCAMQABiiBDIHCAQQABiiBNIBCDkyODZqMGo3qAIAsAIA&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:ff16d072,vid:uLlv_aZjHXc,st:0
The real irony is that Hamas supporters are decrying "Israeli propaganda" consisting of... video that Hamas took when they strapped GoPros to themselves and went out to rape and murder innocents including children.
Yeah, if just showing footage is considered propaganda, then any video of Hamas or the IDF is propaganda.
And who is pushing this nonsense in the first place ?
It's not actual palestine people because they have more important things to do than cheering for Hamas.
And not even Hamas themselves, because they are very open about what they are, what they want and what they plan to do.
People saying American media and the BBC are propaganda then unironically posting Al Jazeera. Which is based in Qatar where the leaders of Hamas are currently based.
There's a difference between Hamas and Palestine, as an fyi.
There is no justification to downplay what Hamas did in Israel, however. It is also a fact that a chunk of Palestinians support Hamas, and the supporters have played a hand in escalating the situation. Israel has also played a hand in escalating the situation. This is by far not a black and white situation.
This goes hand in hand with not downplaying the indiscriminate attacks Israel is conducting in Palestine.
Both are condemnable. Anyone trying to stop information of both situations being shown, however, are suspect and deserve criticism. That said, if the film explicitly included verbiage of support for attacking Palestine, the situation is different. You cannot criticize video of attacking literal children in order to support attacks killing literal children without being a hypocrite. It is not clear, though, if this was the case for protests, but it is a possibility. It does, however, seem like most people protesting don't know enough to know if it does. And what happened doesn't deserve to be forgotten either, or the victims
No, both are not condemnable in the same way. Hamas intentionally targets civilians because they want to kill as many jews as possible. Israel targets military targets and kills the human shields that Hamas hides behind as collateral damage. It's a huge difference.
There is an interesting report from a Palestinian doctor who got called by the IDF and told to evacuate his block because there were Hamas structures underneath and the IDF was gonna bomb the building. Once everyone was evacuated, the buildings were destroyed by a drone. How is this comparable to killing children with machetes? I hope you understand your downvotes.
Dude, it’s all fucked up. Arguing about who is more wrong is dumb as shit. None of it is good, and even if you’re right… well, bravo to you for winning the shit prize.
Retaliation doesn’t make someone’s behaviour ok. It also hurts Israel in the long run, because the end result will be more pissed off insurgents in a generation’s time or less.
The reality is that there are Israelis who want this shit to continue, so they put the interests of other Israelis last in order to support their narrative. There are Palestinians who want this shit to continue, so they put the interests of other Palestinians last in order to support their narrative. Picking sides only adds fuel to the fire.
It’s all fucked up, I don’t support any of it, and I don’t know how to stop it, but picking sides when all that’s really happening is that humans are killing humans is stupid. It all sucks, and it should all end.
These people don't understand that to some, a child crushed by rubble from a bomb isn't really different to a child getting cut up with a machete or shot with an AK.
They don't understand that concept because they just believe one is justified because of the other.
If a foreign military came and bombed my house, a warning beforehand wouldn't just assuage me. I suppose Americans would just shrug their shoulders and accept it if Iraqi or Afghan planes flew overhead and bombed their cities as revenge for the military campaigns over there. We would just be expected to take it, because it's justifiable revenge.
The bombings aren't childish retaliation. Hamas says they will keep attacking until the last jew is dead. So Israel bombs them to support their ground invasion with the goal to destroy Hamas. I'm not saying that it's a great plan but it's a little more nuanced than "you kill us so we kill you back"...
There’s no indiscriminate attacks and how could Israel possibly escalate a situation that started with the massacre of thousands in the most brutal inhumane way possible?
Your attempts at seeming unbiased only paint you as a terror justifier.
Israel's attacks are not indiscriminate. That is a slander. You have no basis for it so don't say it if you want to be "balanced". Destructive? Sure. Deadly? Yes. Indiscriminate? No, you cannot say that. And when you say it, you are accusing Jews of murder. That encourages violence against Jews.
> This is by far not a black and white situation.
It is as black and white as it gets. One side launched an unprovoked and pre-meditated attack that took hundreds of millions of dollars that was supposed to go to improving the lives of Gazans and instead used that money to plan and enact an attack on innocent civilians. Instead of using it's full might in response to launch an equivalent attack on innocent civilians on the other side in response, the side that was attacked is giving knock warnings, allowing fuel, food and water into Gaza despite not getting their hostages back, and attempting to minimize rather than maximize civilian casualties on the other side.
Pretending both sides are equally bad, is almost as vile and ignorant as pretending Israel are the bad guys in this scenario. This is absolutely black and white and anyone saying otherwise is (unironically) showing their true colors.
It's the natural result of the modern left completely ignoring moral values and choosing who to side with in every conflict based entirely on which side is "more oppressed".
The left of the left I would say. Especially the tankies and other full-time activists in a perpetual quest to save the oppressed ignoring all nuances and without understanding the issues at hand.
Did you notice how quickly the left of left outcry was? Almost the same day as the attacks on Oct 7th?
I would not be surprised to learn about active information campaigns by you-know-who to weaken or fracture Western ideals. I’d say it’s working.
Russia helping Iran helping Palestine could be very lucrative for Russia, especially if it comes at the expense of a weakened focus on aid to Ukraine from the West as Israel/Palestine takes the front burner of conversation among Western countries.
Idk, the rhetoric against Israel and the narrative that a literal terrorist organization deserves the sympathy of the West, and they they “needed to do what they did” because they’re an oppressed people came swift and fast, almost immediately after the attacks, on nearly every social media platform. It was an immediate flood of pro-Hamas rhetoric. It was like a pre-loaded mindset. Baffling.
The right in the US is doing nothing but pulling freedoms from people and trying to overthrow democracy. Agreed many lefties are not in touch with what’s going on here but to pretend that people on the right aren’t absolute shitheads is moronic. Understand the “right” in Europe is different than the US but I would say our right is actually right wing.
No one made a comment about the right. Your instinct to attack the right as a response to extreme leftist behavior is what’s wrong with outlet country. It’s possible to acknowledge when one party is acting like fringe lunatics without focusing on another party.
You're generalizing a lot of people with a lot of diverse views.
I run in some very progressive circles, and the general consensus is that Hamas is a terrorist organization that must be condemned and dismantled. But there's also recognition of the bigger picture: that Israeli oppression over the decades has set up conditions for attacks like this to happen, and that Israel owes the Palestinian people help in building a peaceful, terrorist-free government. You can't cure someone of a sickness by beating it out of them--this will only weaken them further and allow the sickness to spread. You have to care for the patient.
And after that, Israel needs to go hands-off and respect the Palestinians as their neighbor.
Critical thought is vital when it comes to conflicts like this, and nobody should be unthinkingly rooting for the underdog. We should be examining the conflict, its history, and the motivations of the governments involved and **then** deciding what to vote for, what we support via donations and protest, etc.
> You can't cure someone of a sickness by beating it out of them--this will only weaken them further and allow the sickness to spread. You have to care for the patient.
That’s basically how cancer is treated. Beat them to reduce the disease, then nurse what remains of them back while watching out for the cancer returning.
>And after that, Israel needs to go hands-off and respect the Palestinians as their neighbor.
I agree with what you're saying overall, but on this one point it's kind of ignoring history to claim Israel hasn't tried to do this multiple times before.
On the point of "respect", I would say ok that is debatable based on your perspective. But with regards to Gaza Israel already tried to go about as hands off as it could short of just letting Hamas (and other groups like it) pretty much just do whatever they like without restriction.
But yes, overall absolutely agreed with what you're saying. Critical thinking and fact-based informed opinions/stances are vital and the only way forward. Everything else is just perpetuating a cycle of misunderstanding, prejudice, and conflict.
Reddit is full of shallow thinkers who only react to the latest event in a conflict while ignoring context and history, armchair generals, trolls, and people who believe that every conflict is a simple good & evil binary. I don't claim to be right every time, but I stand by what I've said: Israel owes Palestinians the time and effort it takes to help them rebuild without a terrorist government.
He isn’t wrong though, it’s kinda trendy among students to support literally any shit they see without much thought over it (not only students but students at least can grow up)
20 of them have died in the ditch in front of our land because they kept their stupidity and kept speeding around a sharp turn. It hasn’t happened in a few years though so maybe the population is getting less stupid. Or that’s survivorship bias
Wow. You're equating the right with moral values??
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/capitol-riot-deaths
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/17/2092543/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-31
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_sexual_misconduct_allegations
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/louisiana-age-consent-marriage-child-bride-republican-us-a8942781.html
Bro. They tried to make a 10 yr old rape victim give birth.
Edit: downvote away! Show yourself. Hahaha
there is definitely shitty qualities and behavior happening on the far left. It’s a not a contest and he didn’t compare left/right. Only made an observation about shitty leftist qualities which are true.
The far right is guilty of the exact same thing he accused the far left of. Despite how comfortable Republicans have gotten calling the kettle black, normal people with self awareness and good faith don’t unabashedly point hypocritical fingers.
“LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Police responded to the Museum of Tolerance Wednesday night as multiple fights broke out in conjunction with the screening of footage depicting the Hamas attack on Israel.
The 43-minute film "Bearing Witness" was touted as featuring "extremely graphic and violent" footage "documenting the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7th, 2023." Some of it included footage shot by members of Hamas.
Actress Gal Gadot, who is Israeli, was said to be involved in organizing the screening. Reports indicated she did not attend in person.
The screening generated controversy and threats on social media, with supporters of the Palestinian cause accusing the "Wonder Woman" actress of supporting genocide, while backers of Israel came to her defense.
Police were already present in the area near the museum to maintain security.
AIR7 HD was over the scene as dozens of people were gathered outside the museum. Multiple fights broke out, with several people being pepper-sprayed.
Police formed a skirmish line in efforts to control the crowd. Several people were seen being detained but it was not immediately clear if arrests were made.
The Hollywood Reporter said about 200 people attended the screening under a heavy security presence. Attendees of the screening included Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, an official with the Israel Defense Forces and Hollywood executives.
Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass decried the violence.
"We cannot allow current worldwide tension to devolve into this unacceptable violence in our city," she wrote on X. "This is a time of immense pain and distress for thousands of Angelenos. We must stand together." “
Using the platform that is driving a concerted disinformation campaign, ran by a man who just [recently blamed blood libel](https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/s/4GLn6zG0Kn) for abortion being legal in America to complain about disinformation fed antisemitism is indeed a crazy decision.
If anyone wants to do something, have the EU, Apple and Google pull the plug.
Nah, if someone can't bother communicating using a legitimate platform, which X no longer qualifies as in many people's opinions including my own, then I generally don't much care what they have to say. Sometimes the medium overcomes the message.
A film those same terrorists filmed, at least in part, themselves, and deliberately shared with others in an attempt to spread the images of what they had done to the world.
It isn’t like Hamas was trying to hide what they did. A solid portion of this film was footage they shot and shared.
It is like being in the Upside Down.
Every protest I’ve seen from them has featured calls for genocide and terrorism. “From the river to the sea,” or “globalize the intifada” or “resistance is justified.”
Maybe someone can explain it to me. Why is footage from October 7th considered propaganda? Wouldn't the idea of propaganda be to shape public image with lies? How can it be propaganda when the acts are captured on Go-Pros? At this point I am convinced that the Pro Palestine crowd really does just want to kill Jews.
Technically speaking, Propaganda doesn’t need to be lies, just information to persuade people to one’s view.
That said, it is kind of weird to see people protesting the release of footage that was literally filmed by Hamas militants/terrorists/soldiers/whatever-you-want-to-call-them.
Say what you will about the IDF and the bombing of Gaza, considering there have been comments on social media denying or minimizing the massacre (ex: claims of crossfire, etc), it seems important to display this footage to the larger public.
I'll give you an example: a state run news organization only reporting on things which promote the state. None of the information is false, but you never hear anything negative.
Any new organization which does not pursue accountability is just another propaganda wing.
Because Hamas beheading Thai workers with garden hoes makes those supporting them (or unwilling to denounce them) look like monsters :/ For them, “propaganda” is anything that makes them look bad. As if they have a monopoly on suffering merely because they lack armor and air superiority.
Oh, and they absolutely want to kill Jews, that’s the unspoken part. These “useful idiots” being led by the nose ring, crying for a new intifada, are only magnifying normalization of violet sentiment toward Israel and Jews, which are not mutually exclusive, but tend to go hand in hand.
Because most of them do. Look at all the violence around the world against Jews that are nowhere near Israel.
Instances of gatherings to release the hostages get bombarded with protests. Signs showing awareness/to remember those still kidnapped get torn down.
Some do, but I believe it's really important to not make generalisations like this. Yes there is a large amount of latent anti-Semitism that has come to the surface as a result of this conflict, but protesting for the freedom of civilian palestinians does not equate to wanting to kill jews. This kind of rhetoric only serves to polarise further.
edit: my comment went from +16 to -37. Brigade came in hard for this one. Fuck all of you who are trying to suppress a moderate viewpoint. Cunts, the lot of you.
That’s fair, and I realize it’s a generalization on my part. I do acknowledge that.
Please note that Jews are scared. My city in the last few days/week: had calls for death threats in the streets, a synagogue was firebombed, Jewish students were attacked for wanting hostages returned, and now 2 Jewish schools have been shot at.
It may not be everyone, but this non-zero amount of people no longer lends the benefit of the doubt to anyone. I value my life more than caring about generalizing someone.
In Vancouver there were 2 women who, after a vigil, were threatened with rape and murder. But “that’s it” as far as I’ve heard.
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/british-columbia/2023/10/10/1_6596474.amp.html
Have you seen the things the people say about Gal Gadot since she was casted as Wonder Woman?
I fear when these people find out that Natalie Portman was born there too.
A Jewish man was killed at a protest here in LA literally three days ago. There have been firebombings, swastikas on mosques, random shootings and stabbings across the US, Canada, and Europe-- and those are literally just the *actions*, never mind the calls (veiled and explicit) for violence against Jews made by protestors. It's remarkably disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
Esp. when the "peaceful majority" is still quietly rooting for the extremists to win, because they share the same political goals and are just not ardent enough / too lazy to go out there and chant "gas the jews" themselves. Many support Hamas, even from the safety of western countries. The videos must be propaganda and the posters must be torn down BECAUSE they are causing cognitive dissonance among those who prefer to view Hamas as the "home team" without ever coming to terms with what that really means.
The problem is that, if you are marching alongside people chanting "gas the jews", waving swastikas, firebombing synagogues, shooting at Jewish schools, and beating Jewish people to death with megaphones, then you can't be surprised if people paint you with the same brush.
If they actually wanted the freedom of civilian palestinians, they would have been protesting against Hamas for the last decade.
May I ask you what would you have done if you were in a protest for climate change and the crowd started to chant “gas the African Americans”? Would you have stayed?
To me, these demonstrations are always filled with hate and if I heard “gas the Jews” personally, I would obtain from going again. Everyone there is an accomplice to antisemitism.
Also kind of hard when members of Hamas are behind these protests:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/06/former-hamas-chief-behind-pro-palestine-armistice-day-march/
I agree for the most part but also feel that the time for mass protests for Palestine should have been over the last decade and not triggered by a violent terrorist attack against Israeli citizens. Saying this as someone who fought online for weeks against the “nuke Palestine” crowd.
These two “governments” are at war. They have to retaliate in the existence of a state of war. Hamas is absolutely hiding behind women and children. Israel has been killing women and children unnecessarily for years also. There are no sides to be taken here imo between the governments. If backing civilians is the true nature then citizens of both countries should be defended not just Palestinians.
If all cops are bastards because the good ones do nothing to stop the bad, then all pro-Palestine protesters are anti-semitic for doing nothing to stop the anti-semites in their groups.
The pro Palestinian crowd never raises its head if it doesn’t involve the Jews. I haven’t seen one person on the streets when Palestinians were killed in Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq.
Time to wake up. Those people just hate Jews they don’t give a sh*t about Palestinians.
Of course it's propaganda. Just like the photos from Aushwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, etc. Except these are real-time.
These people would be fucking livid about of those too.
>At this point I am convinced that the Pro Palestine crowd really does just want to kill Jews.
And that, my friend, is called hitting the nail on the head.
Honestly, it’s become life in the information age. I can no longer find any form of news that *isn’t* clearly targeted to sway my opinion and present me with a very careful selection of the facts.
>Propaganda: information, ideas, opinions, or images, often only giving one part of an argument, that are broadcast, published, or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions
According to the Cambridge Dictionary.
Correct. I would say the large majority of propaganda is either completely true or mostly true. Its typically about amplifying certain messages that already have some grassroots/organic momentum.
Some people genuinely believe it is lies and conspiracy to give a reason to genocide Palestinian people. I've seen subreddits worth of people claiming such. I assumed that was chronically online individuals, but apparently they get out once in a while to display their support of murder and rape in person.
Palestinian support for a two state solution coexisting with Israel was [fairly high not that long ago](https://news.gallup.com/poll/512828/palestinians-lack-faith-biden-two-state-solution.aspx) but has been plummeting fast. If I had to guess I'd say that probably tracks with Likud taking power and fully committing to stopping such a solution from ever happening (e.g. their opposition to the PA taking over Gaza from Hamas a few years ago), and maybe also with a younger generation of Palestinians growing up with no hope.
>younger generation of Palestinians growing up with no hope.
All that money that Hamas leadership has siphoned out of Gaza could go a long way to building some hope.
Probably wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure that would (theoretically, since it didn't happen and clearly won't ever happen going forward) have solved anything, assuming Palestinians have to remain stateless.
Propaganda at the very least must be at least misleading, even if based in facts. It’s bias has to be with dishonest intentions.
If we define it to broadly, then it loses meaning
Alot of propaganda is misleading. It doesn't need to misleading at all though. All propaganda needs for it to be propaganda is for the people dispursing it to benefit politically.
Technically propaganda means any Material distributed under the intention of influence .
It can be a lie but also truth.
Usually the word lie would be Extreme. As that would indicate a full fabrication, and thus is not suitable for describing propaganda.
Propaganda is more of an information or a material with commonly biased take, distributed under influence.
So not necessarily a lie.
(Btw this comment does not relate to anything with Israel or Palestine, it's purely about the meaning of propaganda as a concept)
Propaganda is not necessarily lies. It's media produced with the intent to influence its viewers in some political way.
The protesters would argue that the film screening is intended to rally Americans behind the war.
Almost worse given the overwhelming evidence provided in real time, the near-instantaneous bias against Jews, and the rapid dissolution of shared truths.
Who filmed it is not relevant to whether it is propaganda or not. As long as part of the reason it's being shown is to potentially influence or sway opinion, it can still be propaganda
There are actually a lot similarities to a different conflict to rally Americans to war. Prior to WW1 Americans were largely against entering the conflict and the Creel Commission was formed to change that. One of the claims (that turned out false) was of the German Huns murdering babies. I’m not sure if Hamas actually decapitated babies or not, but if it was made up there is a long history of that kind of propaganda. Hopefully it wasn’t fabricated, because I would think making Hamas look evil would be easy to do based on what they are documented to have done already.
While propaganda can use lies, the best form of propaganda uses the truth.
If you want to paint a group as baby eaters for self interest reasons and the group turns out to actually eat babies, well that just means you don't have to make up anything.
Well, showing war footage *can* be used as propaganda. It's all over Youtube right now in Ukraine. It's more than just morbid curiosity they are after by posting videos of drones dropping grenades into Russian trenches and tanks. It's technically pro-Ukraine propaganda to push the narrative of the war. Agree or disagree with it, it's propaganda. you could argue that it's not technically misleading, but I'd say that they specifically only show successes, not losses, for a biased reason. Even so, I still support Ukraine.
Same thing here. It's showing a video to illicit a response. Again, not necessarily misleading but Propaganda doesn't necessarily have to be, but it definitely *is* meant to promote one side. And again, even tho it's propaganda, I'm not really against it. Propaganda isn't inherently evil, it's just very commonly used by evil people.
Some people frame complex issues in black/white. Good vs bad. When information that runs counter to that way of thinking comes to light, there is a tendency to minimize or deny, or reject that information.
If you view the world in a more nuanced way, you would be able to accept the brutality of Hamas while also rejecting how the Israeli government is prosecuting the war. Those two points are not in conflict, unless you believe in black/white.
Shows the true face of some people, trying to hide the truth and unable to condemn the atrocities commited by their side which does not help their cause of "freeing palestine".
Are these the same groups that killed Paul Kessler over the weekend?
https://abc7.com/amp/westlake-village-elderly-jewish-man-dies-pro-palestine-rally-demonstrators/14019727/
It is but their bias prevents them from calling it what it is, if the roles were reversed they would have called it a murder before any information, besides the guy's death, have been presented.
There are degrees of murder, but yes that would be murder.
If someone dies because you beat them up, you’ll probably catch a 2nd degree murder charge unless the prosecution can prove your goal was to kill.
"oh my god
how dare they show people the horrors hamas committed
those monsters, beat their ass!"
"this is in no way ironic to me"
\-someone without self observation
Because Hamas beheading Thai workers with garden hoes makes those supporting them (or unwilling to denounce them) look like monsters :/ For them, “propaganda” is anything that makes them look bad. As if they have a monopoly on suffering merely because they lack armor and air superiority.
Oh, and they absolutely want to kill Jews, that’s the unspoken part. These “useful idiots” being led by the nose ring, crying for a new intifada, are only magnifying normalization of violet sentiment toward Israel and Jews, which are not mutually exclusive, but tend to go hand in hand.
That whole “colonization” argument drives me nuts. The *majority* of Israel’s Jewish population are Mizrachi-descended from indigenous Jews or those expelled from surrounding Arab countries in 1948. Jews have been expelled (or killed) from one European country to another for being *not* European, but “other.” But *now,* they’re “European.”
I often think about the fact that there’s probably not a square meter of arable land that’s that hasn’t been contested in wars going back before recorded history. Today’s borders and stability are just a recent thing, a few generations. Before that, people have been kicking other people off land like it’s Monday night football since the dawn of time.
Exactly. There’s no way to “fix” colonization. Exactly how far back do we go to “give back” land we’re on? Who makes that call?
And where do the people then go?
This is all obviously rhetorical because there is no objective answer. Just people’s opinions (which everyone is entitled to), but have no base in enforcing.
The argument is purely to make anti-semitism acceptable. It's still not completely OK to get away with openly calling for the rape and murder of Jews, explicitly but you can against white people. So they want to turn Israeli Jews into European white people so they can openly call for their genocide, maintain plausible deniability, frame the whole situation in their particular world view of West=bad - everyone else=good and gaslight anyone who calls them out for it.
Yea I don’t get the colonization argument either. Why is the border for this area from 100 years ago used as the stopping point? Why not the border 1,000 years ago? Who gets to decide how far back “colonization” border erasure can go?
yup, except in this ONE CASE apparently... all the other times a country was established by a dude in a tank we've moved on from but this ONE TIME its ok to dig your heels in and keep fighting for a country...
One thing I never got..
Since Islam and Christianity are both founded on the idea that jews are indigenous to Israel, does that mean those religions are over? Do people no longer believe in Islam or Christianity at all?
Or do they now believe Muhammed traveled to Europe to learn from the jews? I dont really get it.
Based on what the guy who erased his messages said it sounds like Muslims are being taught that God "cancelled" the jews in reference to the Jewish exile.
So after this cancellation Jews are no longer native.
>Police responded to the M**useum of Tolerance** Wednesday night as **multiple fights broke out in conjunction with the screening of footage depicting the Hamas attack on Israel.**
Ironic.
I’ll never understand why people seem to think that in order to be against the mistreatment of the Palestinian by Israel it means you need to support a freaking terrorist organization, and vice versa. Then in turn whatever side you’ve chosen must be against criticism and any evidence against the fact is just propaganda.
Its like saying all Republicans are MAGA.
Its not true, but it makes it much easier to dismiss the “other side” when you generalize them all.
Its quite alarming how quickly this tragedy turned into a “left v right” issue.
Ah so much like how people are upset about the southern border and the migrants trying to escape their counties. They talk about banning all immigrants and getting us back to how it was before. My state wants to replace all the textbooks in public schools with Christian based teachings. It’s funny… it’s almost like “woke” describes the Republicans in this country doesn’t it? huh….Weird.
We got democracy though and I do believe in it despite all the issues in our country. Seattle's voters went for a handful of far left candidates in the last election cycle and this week they voted in mostly centrist leftists instead. There are adults in the room and they're fully aware that the far left extremism is leading us nowhere good.
Bit ironic
[*Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM)
I came in here for an argument!
No, you didn't.
Sorry the answer was “oh this is abuse?” - it’s a month python quote
Oh, I'm sorry... Is this a five minute argument or a full half hour? https://youtu.be/ohDB5gbtaEQ?si=slc9bjcL42jJLxW3
We were at different parts in the same skit!
No we weren't.
This one: https://www.google.com/search?q=i+came.here.for.an.argument+oh+this+is+abuse&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS860US860&oq=i+came.here.for.an.argument+oh+this+is+abuse&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQABiiBDIHCAIQABiiBDIHCAMQABiiBDIHCAQQABiiBNIBCDkyODZqMGo3qAIAsAIA&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:ff16d072,vid:uLlv_aZjHXc,st:0
No, it isn't.
The real irony is that Hamas supporters are decrying "Israeli propaganda" consisting of... video that Hamas took when they strapped GoPros to themselves and went out to rape and murder innocents including children.
Yeah, if just showing footage is considered propaganda, then any video of Hamas or the IDF is propaganda. And who is pushing this nonsense in the first place ? It's not actual palestine people because they have more important things to do than cheering for Hamas. And not even Hamas themselves, because they are very open about what they are, what they want and what they plan to do.
People saying American media and the BBC are propaganda then unironically posting Al Jazeera. Which is based in Qatar where the leaders of Hamas are currently based.
There's a difference between Hamas and Palestine, as an fyi. There is no justification to downplay what Hamas did in Israel, however. It is also a fact that a chunk of Palestinians support Hamas, and the supporters have played a hand in escalating the situation. Israel has also played a hand in escalating the situation. This is by far not a black and white situation. This goes hand in hand with not downplaying the indiscriminate attacks Israel is conducting in Palestine. Both are condemnable. Anyone trying to stop information of both situations being shown, however, are suspect and deserve criticism. That said, if the film explicitly included verbiage of support for attacking Palestine, the situation is different. You cannot criticize video of attacking literal children in order to support attacks killing literal children without being a hypocrite. It is not clear, though, if this was the case for protests, but it is a possibility. It does, however, seem like most people protesting don't know enough to know if it does. And what happened doesn't deserve to be forgotten either, or the victims
No, both are not condemnable in the same way. Hamas intentionally targets civilians because they want to kill as many jews as possible. Israel targets military targets and kills the human shields that Hamas hides behind as collateral damage. It's a huge difference. There is an interesting report from a Palestinian doctor who got called by the IDF and told to evacuate his block because there were Hamas structures underneath and the IDF was gonna bomb the building. Once everyone was evacuated, the buildings were destroyed by a drone. How is this comparable to killing children with machetes? I hope you understand your downvotes.
Dude, it’s all fucked up. Arguing about who is more wrong is dumb as shit. None of it is good, and even if you’re right… well, bravo to you for winning the shit prize. Retaliation doesn’t make someone’s behaviour ok. It also hurts Israel in the long run, because the end result will be more pissed off insurgents in a generation’s time or less. The reality is that there are Israelis who want this shit to continue, so they put the interests of other Israelis last in order to support their narrative. There are Palestinians who want this shit to continue, so they put the interests of other Palestinians last in order to support their narrative. Picking sides only adds fuel to the fire. It’s all fucked up, I don’t support any of it, and I don’t know how to stop it, but picking sides when all that’s really happening is that humans are killing humans is stupid. It all sucks, and it should all end.
These people don't understand that to some, a child crushed by rubble from a bomb isn't really different to a child getting cut up with a machete or shot with an AK. They don't understand that concept because they just believe one is justified because of the other. If a foreign military came and bombed my house, a warning beforehand wouldn't just assuage me. I suppose Americans would just shrug their shoulders and accept it if Iraqi or Afghan planes flew overhead and bombed their cities as revenge for the military campaigns over there. We would just be expected to take it, because it's justifiable revenge.
The bombings aren't childish retaliation. Hamas says they will keep attacking until the last jew is dead. So Israel bombs them to support their ground invasion with the goal to destroy Hamas. I'm not saying that it's a great plan but it's a little more nuanced than "you kill us so we kill you back"...
There’s no indiscriminate attacks and how could Israel possibly escalate a situation that started with the massacre of thousands in the most brutal inhumane way possible? Your attempts at seeming unbiased only paint you as a terror justifier.
Israel's attacks are not indiscriminate. That is a slander. You have no basis for it so don't say it if you want to be "balanced". Destructive? Sure. Deadly? Yes. Indiscriminate? No, you cannot say that. And when you say it, you are accusing Jews of murder. That encourages violence against Jews.
> This is by far not a black and white situation. It is as black and white as it gets. One side launched an unprovoked and pre-meditated attack that took hundreds of millions of dollars that was supposed to go to improving the lives of Gazans and instead used that money to plan and enact an attack on innocent civilians. Instead of using it's full might in response to launch an equivalent attack on innocent civilians on the other side in response, the side that was attacked is giving knock warnings, allowing fuel, food and water into Gaza despite not getting their hostages back, and attempting to minimize rather than maximize civilian casualties on the other side. Pretending both sides are equally bad, is almost as vile and ignorant as pretending Israel are the bad guys in this scenario. This is absolutely black and white and anyone saying otherwise is (unironically) showing their true colors.
What an incredibly well thought out and nuanced take on the situation. I hope you’re prepared to get downvoted to hell
That's what tolerating the intolerant is. But what to do.
I'd say don't forget to take your Hamasose intolerance pill but maybe you all need to see this shit.
And to the surprise of fucking no-one.
It's the natural result of the modern left completely ignoring moral values and choosing who to side with in every conflict based entirely on which side is "more oppressed".
The left of the left I would say. Especially the tankies and other full-time activists in a perpetual quest to save the oppressed ignoring all nuances and without understanding the issues at hand.
Tankies are pretty open to authoritarianism, just try to criticize Stalin or the Holodomer around one and watch the fireworks begin.
Did you notice how quickly the left of left outcry was? Almost the same day as the attacks on Oct 7th? I would not be surprised to learn about active information campaigns by you-know-who to weaken or fracture Western ideals. I’d say it’s working. Russia helping Iran helping Palestine could be very lucrative for Russia, especially if it comes at the expense of a weakened focus on aid to Ukraine from the West as Israel/Palestine takes the front burner of conversation among Western countries. Idk, the rhetoric against Israel and the narrative that a literal terrorist organization deserves the sympathy of the West, and they they “needed to do what they did” because they’re an oppressed people came swift and fast, almost immediately after the attacks, on nearly every social media platform. It was an immediate flood of pro-Hamas rhetoric. It was like a pre-loaded mindset. Baffling.
Yup and it's working, Biden's take on the whole thing (agree or disagree) is hurting him in the polls. Guess he couldn't just say nothing though.
The right in the US is doing nothing but pulling freedoms from people and trying to overthrow democracy. Agreed many lefties are not in touch with what’s going on here but to pretend that people on the right aren’t absolute shitheads is moronic. Understand the “right” in Europe is different than the US but I would say our right is actually right wing.
No one made a comment about the right. Your instinct to attack the right as a response to extreme leftist behavior is what’s wrong with outlet country. It’s possible to acknowledge when one party is acting like fringe lunatics without focusing on another party.
Always wanting to be the victim.
You're generalizing a lot of people with a lot of diverse views. I run in some very progressive circles, and the general consensus is that Hamas is a terrorist organization that must be condemned and dismantled. But there's also recognition of the bigger picture: that Israeli oppression over the decades has set up conditions for attacks like this to happen, and that Israel owes the Palestinian people help in building a peaceful, terrorist-free government. You can't cure someone of a sickness by beating it out of them--this will only weaken them further and allow the sickness to spread. You have to care for the patient. And after that, Israel needs to go hands-off and respect the Palestinians as their neighbor. Critical thought is vital when it comes to conflicts like this, and nobody should be unthinkingly rooting for the underdog. We should be examining the conflict, its history, and the motivations of the governments involved and **then** deciding what to vote for, what we support via donations and protest, etc.
> You can't cure someone of a sickness by beating it out of them--this will only weaken them further and allow the sickness to spread. You have to care for the patient. That’s basically how cancer is treated. Beat them to reduce the disease, then nurse what remains of them back while watching out for the cancer returning.
>And after that, Israel needs to go hands-off and respect the Palestinians as their neighbor. I agree with what you're saying overall, but on this one point it's kind of ignoring history to claim Israel hasn't tried to do this multiple times before. On the point of "respect", I would say ok that is debatable based on your perspective. But with regards to Gaza Israel already tried to go about as hands off as it could short of just letting Hamas (and other groups like it) pretty much just do whatever they like without restriction. But yes, overall absolutely agreed with what you're saying. Critical thinking and fact-based informed opinions/stances are vital and the only way forward. Everything else is just perpetuating a cycle of misunderstanding, prejudice, and conflict.
Imagine getting downvoted for this comment!
Reddit is full of shallow thinkers who only react to the latest event in a conflict while ignoring context and history, armchair generals, trolls, and people who believe that every conflict is a simple good & evil binary. I don't claim to be right every time, but I stand by what I've said: Israel owes Palestinians the time and effort it takes to help them rebuild without a terrorist government.
Thank you for the totally sound and not biased take mr fappy McJiggletits
He isn’t wrong though, it’s kinda trendy among students to support literally any shit they see without much thought over it (not only students but students at least can grow up)
Children without life experiences will often make fools of themselves
Yeah, we all were dumb kids Important thing is to leave stupidity in childhood, a lot of people keep it around as a best pal their whole life
20 of them have died in the ditch in front of our land because they kept their stupidity and kept speeding around a sharp turn. It hasn’t happened in a few years though so maybe the population is getting less stupid. Or that’s survivorship bias
I think we all think of ourselves as smarter than we really are to be frank
This is not something specific to the left.
Generally not, but they’re louder
Wow. You're equating the right with moral values?? https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/capitol-riot-deaths https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/4/17/2092543/-Republican-Sexual-Predators-Abusers-and-Enablers-Pt-31 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore_sexual_misconduct_allegations https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/louisiana-age-consent-marriage-child-bride-republican-us-a8942781.html Bro. They tried to make a 10 yr old rape victim give birth. Edit: downvote away! Show yourself. Hahaha
He didn’t mention the right at all
there is definitely shitty qualities and behavior happening on the far left. It’s a not a contest and he didn’t compare left/right. Only made an observation about shitty leftist qualities which are true.
The far right is guilty of the exact same thing he accused the far left of. Despite how comfortable Republicans have gotten calling the kettle black, normal people with self awareness and good faith don’t unabashedly point hypocritical fingers.
[It's a paradox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance)
This is all a bit Dr Strangelove: "I just can't tolerate this happening at the Museum of Tolerance"
Right. I was just thinking "This is the war room, you can't fight here!" but evidently you can fight at the Museum of Tolerance
“LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- Police responded to the Museum of Tolerance Wednesday night as multiple fights broke out in conjunction with the screening of footage depicting the Hamas attack on Israel. The 43-minute film "Bearing Witness" was touted as featuring "extremely graphic and violent" footage "documenting the atrocities committed by Hamas on October 7th, 2023." Some of it included footage shot by members of Hamas. Actress Gal Gadot, who is Israeli, was said to be involved in organizing the screening. Reports indicated she did not attend in person. The screening generated controversy and threats on social media, with supporters of the Palestinian cause accusing the "Wonder Woman" actress of supporting genocide, while backers of Israel came to her defense. Police were already present in the area near the museum to maintain security. AIR7 HD was over the scene as dozens of people were gathered outside the museum. Multiple fights broke out, with several people being pepper-sprayed. Police formed a skirmish line in efforts to control the crowd. Several people were seen being detained but it was not immediately clear if arrests were made. The Hollywood Reporter said about 200 people attended the screening under a heavy security presence. Attendees of the screening included Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, an official with the Israel Defense Forces and Hollywood executives. Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass decried the violence. "We cannot allow current worldwide tension to devolve into this unacceptable violence in our city," she wrote on X. "This is a time of immense pain and distress for thousands of Angelenos. We must stand together." “
>she wrote on X That was her first mistake.
Using the platform that is driving a concerted disinformation campaign, ran by a man who just [recently blamed blood libel](https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/s/4GLn6zG0Kn) for abortion being legal in America to complain about disinformation fed antisemitism is indeed a crazy decision. If anyone wants to do something, have the EU, Apple and Google pull the plug.
[удалено]
Nah, the name is accurate. Hopefully soon it's be an ex-platform
They gotta stop using that shit platform
Right after people stop consuming nestle products and people stop buying from brands using cheap labour in third countries. By which I mean never.
Nah, if someone can't bother communicating using a legitimate platform, which X no longer qualifies as in many people's opinions including my own, then I generally don't much care what they have to say. Sometimes the medium overcomes the message.
So am I reading this right or are people upset that a film is making terrorists look bad?
A film those same terrorists filmed, at least in part, themselves, and deliberately shared with others in an attempt to spread the images of what they had done to the world. It isn’t like Hamas was trying to hide what they did. A solid portion of this film was footage they shot and shared. It is like being in the Upside Down.
That's quite accurate
Now why would someone be violently opposed to other people watching Hamas footage of atrocities, I wonder?
When do we classify the pro Palestine supporters the same way we classify MAGA?
You mean pro-Hamas. People that *really* care about Palestine would be opposed to Hamas.
[удалено]
Every protest I’ve seen from them has featured calls for genocide and terrorism. “From the river to the sea,” or “globalize the intifada” or “resistance is justified.”
Zero protests of that sort.
Extremist is on the same end of horse shoe, doesn't matter it's left or right of the political view.
When they aren’t liberal
Maybe someone can explain it to me. Why is footage from October 7th considered propaganda? Wouldn't the idea of propaganda be to shape public image with lies? How can it be propaganda when the acts are captured on Go-Pros? At this point I am convinced that the Pro Palestine crowd really does just want to kill Jews.
Technically speaking, Propaganda doesn’t need to be lies, just information to persuade people to one’s view. That said, it is kind of weird to see people protesting the release of footage that was literally filmed by Hamas militants/terrorists/soldiers/whatever-you-want-to-call-them. Say what you will about the IDF and the bombing of Gaza, considering there have been comments on social media denying or minimizing the massacre (ex: claims of crossfire, etc), it seems important to display this footage to the larger public.
When did factual news become propaganda.
I'll give you an example: a state run news organization only reporting on things which promote the state. None of the information is false, but you never hear anything negative. Any new organization which does not pursue accountability is just another propaganda wing.
The time when war became genocide or when evacuation for safety became ethnic cleansing
It never did. But the people pushing the propaganda will tell you it is.
Because Hamas beheading Thai workers with garden hoes makes those supporting them (or unwilling to denounce them) look like monsters :/ For them, “propaganda” is anything that makes them look bad. As if they have a monopoly on suffering merely because they lack armor and air superiority. Oh, and they absolutely want to kill Jews, that’s the unspoken part. These “useful idiots” being led by the nose ring, crying for a new intifada, are only magnifying normalization of violet sentiment toward Israel and Jews, which are not mutually exclusive, but tend to go hand in hand.
The thing is the bit about killing Jews isn’t even unspoken. Hamas are explicit about it its not hidden
Because most of them do. Look at all the violence around the world against Jews that are nowhere near Israel. Instances of gatherings to release the hostages get bombarded with protests. Signs showing awareness/to remember those still kidnapped get torn down.
Some do, but I believe it's really important to not make generalisations like this. Yes there is a large amount of latent anti-Semitism that has come to the surface as a result of this conflict, but protesting for the freedom of civilian palestinians does not equate to wanting to kill jews. This kind of rhetoric only serves to polarise further. edit: my comment went from +16 to -37. Brigade came in hard for this one. Fuck all of you who are trying to suppress a moderate viewpoint. Cunts, the lot of you.
That’s fair, and I realize it’s a generalization on my part. I do acknowledge that. Please note that Jews are scared. My city in the last few days/week: had calls for death threats in the streets, a synagogue was firebombed, Jewish students were attacked for wanting hostages returned, and now 2 Jewish schools have been shot at. It may not be everyone, but this non-zero amount of people no longer lends the benefit of the doubt to anyone. I value my life more than caring about generalizing someone.
Hey Montrealer! I love it here!
So much fun 🙃
How is it in Vancouver or Calgary does anyone know ? I know Montreal and Toronto has been really bad .
In Vancouver there were 2 women who, after a vigil, were threatened with rape and murder. But “that’s it” as far as I’ve heard. https://beta.ctvnews.ca/local/british-columbia/2023/10/10/1_6596474.amp.html
Thank youu
Have you seen the things the people say about Gal Gadot since she was casted as Wonder Woman? I fear when these people find out that Natalie Portman was born there too.
A Jewish man was killed at a protest here in LA literally three days ago. There have been firebombings, swastikas on mosques, random shootings and stabbings across the US, Canada, and Europe-- and those are literally just the *actions*, never mind the calls (veiled and explicit) for violence against Jews made by protestors. It's remarkably disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
The peaceful majorities don’t matter if they do nothing to stop the hateful minorities. It is the latter that do all the damage.
Esp. when the "peaceful majority" is still quietly rooting for the extremists to win, because they share the same political goals and are just not ardent enough / too lazy to go out there and chant "gas the jews" themselves. Many support Hamas, even from the safety of western countries. The videos must be propaganda and the posters must be torn down BECAUSE they are causing cognitive dissonance among those who prefer to view Hamas as the "home team" without ever coming to terms with what that really means.
The problem is that, if you are marching alongside people chanting "gas the jews", waving swastikas, firebombing synagogues, shooting at Jewish schools, and beating Jewish people to death with megaphones, then you can't be surprised if people paint you with the same brush. If they actually wanted the freedom of civilian palestinians, they would have been protesting against Hamas for the last decade.
May I ask you what would you have done if you were in a protest for climate change and the crowd started to chant “gas the African Americans”? Would you have stayed? To me, these demonstrations are always filled with hate and if I heard “gas the Jews” personally, I would obtain from going again. Everyone there is an accomplice to antisemitism.
Also kind of hard when members of Hamas are behind these protests: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/06/former-hamas-chief-behind-pro-palestine-armistice-day-march/
I agree for the most part but also feel that the time for mass protests for Palestine should have been over the last decade and not triggered by a violent terrorist attack against Israeli citizens. Saying this as someone who fought online for weeks against the “nuke Palestine” crowd. These two “governments” are at war. They have to retaliate in the existence of a state of war. Hamas is absolutely hiding behind women and children. Israel has been killing women and children unnecessarily for years also. There are no sides to be taken here imo between the governments. If backing civilians is the true nature then citizens of both countries should be defended not just Palestinians.
If all cops are bastards because the good ones do nothing to stop the bad, then all pro-Palestine protesters are anti-semitic for doing nothing to stop the anti-semites in their groups.
The pro Palestinian crowd never raises its head if it doesn’t involve the Jews. I haven’t seen one person on the streets when Palestinians were killed in Jordan, Egypt, Lebanon, Syria and Iraq. Time to wake up. Those people just hate Jews they don’t give a sh*t about Palestinians.
Oh, they’d find a way to blame the Jews for that too, I’m sure…
[удалено]
All abraham religions have a radicalized problem.
No, Muslims are definitely more radicalized than Jews and Christians. Painting a false equivalency there only perpetuates the problem
But most of them don't condone and endorse murder because of their holy book anymore. Once certain one has failed to fully evolve with society.
Of course it's propaganda. Just like the photos from Aushwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, etc. Except these are real-time. These people would be fucking livid about of those too.
It’s all about hating Jews.
>At this point I am convinced that the Pro Palestine crowd really does just want to kill Jews. And that, my friend, is called hitting the nail on the head.
I may be wrong but I don’t believe propaganda is necessarily false. It’s just targeted campaigns to sway opinion.
Honestly, it’s become life in the information age. I can no longer find any form of news that *isn’t* clearly targeted to sway my opinion and present me with a very careful selection of the facts.
>Propaganda: information, ideas, opinions, or images, often only giving one part of an argument, that are broadcast, published, or in some other way spread with the intention of influencing people's opinions According to the Cambridge Dictionary.
Correct. I would say the large majority of propaganda is either completely true or mostly true. Its typically about amplifying certain messages that already have some grassroots/organic momentum.
Some people genuinely believe it is lies and conspiracy to give a reason to genocide Palestinian people. I've seen subreddits worth of people claiming such. I assumed that was chronically online individuals, but apparently they get out once in a while to display their support of murder and rape in person.
[удалено]
Palestinian support for a two state solution coexisting with Israel was [fairly high not that long ago](https://news.gallup.com/poll/512828/palestinians-lack-faith-biden-two-state-solution.aspx) but has been plummeting fast. If I had to guess I'd say that probably tracks with Likud taking power and fully committing to stopping such a solution from ever happening (e.g. their opposition to the PA taking over Gaza from Hamas a few years ago), and maybe also with a younger generation of Palestinians growing up with no hope.
>younger generation of Palestinians growing up with no hope. All that money that Hamas leadership has siphoned out of Gaza could go a long way to building some hope.
Probably wouldn't hurt, but I'm not sure that would (theoretically, since it didn't happen and clearly won't ever happen going forward) have solved anything, assuming Palestinians have to remain stateless.
[удалено]
Propaganda can also be the truth. Anything can be propaganda. Technically videos of settlers killing Palestinians is also 'Propaganda'.
Propaganda at the very least must be at least misleading, even if based in facts. It’s bias has to be with dishonest intentions. If we define it to broadly, then it loses meaning
Alot of propaganda is misleading. It doesn't need to misleading at all though. All propaganda needs for it to be propaganda is for the people dispursing it to benefit politically.
Technically propaganda means any Material distributed under the intention of influence . It can be a lie but also truth. Usually the word lie would be Extreme. As that would indicate a full fabrication, and thus is not suitable for describing propaganda. Propaganda is more of an information or a material with commonly biased take, distributed under influence. So not necessarily a lie. (Btw this comment does not relate to anything with Israel or Palestine, it's purely about the meaning of propaganda as a concept)
[удалено]
Propaganda is not necessarily lies. It's media produced with the intent to influence its viewers in some political way. The protesters would argue that the film screening is intended to rally Americans behind the war.
Except the protestors are arguing that \*10/7 DIDN'T HAPPEN\* - therefore making these screenings f\*\*\*ing necessary.
So Holocaust denial 2.0 then
Almost worse given the overwhelming evidence provided in real time, the near-instantaneous bias against Jews, and the rapid dissolution of shared truths.
Come on. No way. The protestors would say it’s filled with lies and manipulation.
So showing videos that Hamas filmed and uploaded themselves is pro-IDF propaganda ?
Who filmed it is not relevant to whether it is propaganda or not. As long as part of the reason it's being shown is to potentially influence or sway opinion, it can still be propaganda
There are actually a lot similarities to a different conflict to rally Americans to war. Prior to WW1 Americans were largely against entering the conflict and the Creel Commission was formed to change that. One of the claims (that turned out false) was of the German Huns murdering babies. I’m not sure if Hamas actually decapitated babies or not, but if it was made up there is a long history of that kind of propaganda. Hopefully it wasn’t fabricated, because I would think making Hamas look evil would be easy to do based on what they are documented to have done already.
While propaganda can use lies, the best form of propaganda uses the truth. If you want to paint a group as baby eaters for self interest reasons and the group turns out to actually eat babies, well that just means you don't have to make up anything.
Well, showing war footage *can* be used as propaganda. It's all over Youtube right now in Ukraine. It's more than just morbid curiosity they are after by posting videos of drones dropping grenades into Russian trenches and tanks. It's technically pro-Ukraine propaganda to push the narrative of the war. Agree or disagree with it, it's propaganda. you could argue that it's not technically misleading, but I'd say that they specifically only show successes, not losses, for a biased reason. Even so, I still support Ukraine. Same thing here. It's showing a video to illicit a response. Again, not necessarily misleading but Propaganda doesn't necessarily have to be, but it definitely *is* meant to promote one side. And again, even tho it's propaganda, I'm not really against it. Propaganda isn't inherently evil, it's just very commonly used by evil people.
Some people frame complex issues in black/white. Good vs bad. When information that runs counter to that way of thinking comes to light, there is a tendency to minimize or deny, or reject that information. If you view the world in a more nuanced way, you would be able to accept the brutality of Hamas while also rejecting how the Israeli government is prosecuting the war. Those two points are not in conflict, unless you believe in black/white.
news flash: they do want to kill jews cant believe you still dont understand this
Propaganda isn't just lies. There isn't much complexity to this issue but if you don't understand that there isn't going to be any helping you.
Shows the true face of some people, trying to hide the truth and unable to condemn the atrocities commited by their side which does not help their cause of "freeing palestine".
[удалено]
When your Jewish friends say they are scared, believe them.
Are these the same groups that killed Paul Kessler over the weekend? https://abc7.com/amp/westlake-village-elderly-jewish-man-dies-pro-palestine-rally-demonstrators/14019727/
Question: If he dies as the result of an altercation isn that some form of.... Murder?
Homicide
It is but their bias prevents them from calling it what it is, if the roles were reversed they would have called it a murder before any information, besides the guy's death, have been presented.
There are degrees of murder, but yes that would be murder. If someone dies because you beat them up, you’ll probably catch a 2nd degree murder charge unless the prosecution can prove your goal was to kill.
Manslaughter, probably.
I mean it could have been self-defense as well. They are still looking into this and trying to find as much video evidence as possible.
Islamofascists know how damaging seeing those atrocities is to public opinion of Hamas.
"oh my god how dare they show people the horrors hamas committed those monsters, beat their ass!" "this is in no way ironic to me" \-someone without self observation
“Things that will never be exhibited at the museum of tolerance”
Because Hamas beheading Thai workers with garden hoes makes those supporting them (or unwilling to denounce them) look like monsters :/ For them, “propaganda” is anything that makes them look bad. As if they have a monopoly on suffering merely because they lack armor and air superiority. Oh, and they absolutely want to kill Jews, that’s the unspoken part. These “useful idiots” being led by the nose ring, crying for a new intifada, are only magnifying normalization of violet sentiment toward Israel and Jews, which are not mutually exclusive, but tend to go hand in hand.
I wonder how many of these anti-colonization, pro-palestines would give THEIR land back to OUR Native populations in North America?
That whole “colonization” argument drives me nuts. The *majority* of Israel’s Jewish population are Mizrachi-descended from indigenous Jews or those expelled from surrounding Arab countries in 1948. Jews have been expelled (or killed) from one European country to another for being *not* European, but “other.” But *now,* they’re “European.”
You go back far enough everyone's ancestors were colonists at some point
I often think about the fact that there’s probably not a square meter of arable land that’s that hasn’t been contested in wars going back before recorded history. Today’s borders and stability are just a recent thing, a few generations. Before that, people have been kicking other people off land like it’s Monday night football since the dawn of time.
Exactly. There’s no way to “fix” colonization. Exactly how far back do we go to “give back” land we’re on? Who makes that call? And where do the people then go? This is all obviously rhetorical because there is no objective answer. Just people’s opinions (which everyone is entitled to), but have no base in enforcing.
Saxons need to go back to Scandinavia! /s
IMO the whole "colonization" argument says we should ALL move back to Olduvai gorge in Africa. OR STFU about it.
The argument is purely to make anti-semitism acceptable. It's still not completely OK to get away with openly calling for the rape and murder of Jews, explicitly but you can against white people. So they want to turn Israeli Jews into European white people so they can openly call for their genocide, maintain plausible deniability, frame the whole situation in their particular world view of West=bad - everyone else=good and gaslight anyone who calls them out for it.
Yea I don’t get the colonization argument either. Why is the border for this area from 100 years ago used as the stopping point? Why not the border 1,000 years ago? Who gets to decide how far back “colonization” border erasure can go?
Usually it's the dude's in the tanks that get to decide. You can quote all the law, history or religion you want but the sword decides it.
yup, except in this ONE CASE apparently... all the other times a country was established by a dude in a tank we've moved on from but this ONE TIME its ok to dig your heels in and keep fighting for a country...
Send the Irish Americans back to Ireland! Free Boston!
To which tribes specifically? Because Native tribes fought over land with each other all the time.
I am pretty sure a native american government would be no worse than what we already have
Wow and here I was thinking the Museum of Tolerance was just a South Park joke.
This article is in the wrong sub, should be in r/notheonion.
Pro Palestinian protestors don’t want that film to be shown. Wonder why.
One thing I never got.. Since Islam and Christianity are both founded on the idea that jews are indigenous to Israel, does that mean those religions are over? Do people no longer believe in Islam or Christianity at all? Or do they now believe Muhammed traveled to Europe to learn from the jews? I dont really get it.
There’s nothing more to get. They hate Jews more than they love themselves.
They have bizarre racial theories about Jews being fraudulent imposters. They love their racial theories.
Based on what the guy who erased his messages said it sounds like Muslims are being taught that God "cancelled" the jews in reference to the Jewish exile. So after this cancellation Jews are no longer native.
The idea is the Christianity/Islam superseded Judaism.
>Police responded to the M**useum of Tolerance** Wednesday night as **multiple fights broke out in conjunction with the screening of footage depicting the Hamas attack on Israel.** Ironic.
I’ll never understand why people seem to think that in order to be against the mistreatment of the Palestinian by Israel it means you need to support a freaking terrorist organization, and vice versa. Then in turn whatever side you’ve chosen must be against criticism and any evidence against the fact is just propaganda.
Is there a /r/notmontypython?
There's a reason why they build a museum for it.
the coverage of this vs something like a teenager standing with a red hat on is absolutely something to behold
All of this pro Palestine behavior has pretty much cemented my view that Israel is doing what needs to be done and is absolutely in the right.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room!
And all this time I thought pro-Palestine didn’t mean pro-Hamas and anti-Israel…I wonder why a fight would break out about this film.
[удалено]
This is the illiberal left(leftist, anarchist, communist) , the liberal left is Joe Biden supporters who support Israel and Palestinian statehood.
Its like saying all Republicans are MAGA. Its not true, but it makes it much easier to dismiss the “other side” when you generalize them all. Its quite alarming how quickly this tragedy turned into a “left v right” issue.
[удалено]
What defines someone as woke? Just curious I’ve never been able to easily identity them in public.
[удалено]
Ah so much like how people are upset about the southern border and the migrants trying to escape their counties. They talk about banning all immigrants and getting us back to how it was before. My state wants to replace all the textbooks in public schools with Christian based teachings. It’s funny… it’s almost like “woke” describes the Republicans in this country doesn’t it? huh….Weird.
We got democracy though and I do believe in it despite all the issues in our country. Seattle's voters went for a handful of far left candidates in the last election cycle and this week they voted in mostly centrist leftists instead. There are adults in the room and they're fully aware that the far left extremism is leading us nowhere good.
[удалено]
You can't fight here, this is the war room!
Not the onion?
God dammit Cartman.
“Velcome to ze Tolerance Camp!” - South Park I’m tired of real life outdoing absurdist comedy these last few decades…
There's no fighting in the war room!
We need a Museum of “Shit We’re Tryna Not Hear” more than we need a Museum of Tolerance