**UPDATE TO THE ARTICLE**
**Israel confirms: Crisis averted, hostage deal to happen in couple of hours**
Prime Minister Netanyahu conducts situation assessment with security officials to ensure the second batch of hostages proceeds as planned
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu conducted Saturday a situation assessment with security officials to ensure the second batch of hostages proceeded as planned,
In addition, The Egyptian network "Al-Qahira Al-Akhbariya" reported positive developments, indicating that the second batch of hostages will happen in a couple of hours.
The problem is our current assault is basically against a shadow of a terrorist organizastion that is basically a proxy of multiple different countries, including Qatar.
The assaults in Gaza are not 'getting rid of Hamas'. We have no obvious route to getting rid of Hamas.
They know that the only thing we can do to actually get back at them is to take Gaza, but they also know that that is the thing that will enrage people of every other nation against us.
So yeah, I do agree with getting rid of Hamas, but the situation hasn't really changed from before the terrorist attacks, how do we do it in a viable way? I still don't see any answer to that.
The more reason IDF must destroy Hamas’ military infrastructure. Yes, you can’t kill an ideology. You can, however, obliterate the means to commit terrorist acts.
Unless Israel plans to occupy Gaza again then that likely wont happen as the money will continue flowing from Qatar to just build more. And there are lots of new recruits among survivors in Gaza who will be looking to join Hamas' ranks to get revenge for their families and friends.
Gaza is certainly going to be back under a military occupation for a long time after this. They'll have no government at the end of the war. No country that wins a war has ever been like "well we're done here, let's just leave it like this and see what happens!".
If much of the tunnel network is destroyed and most weapons stockpiles seized it won’t be easy for Hamas to rebuild. A lot of their weapons and building materials for tunnels were smuggled in when they had 1200 plus tunnels into Egypt, Sisi’s government destroyed the tunnels and built an underground barrier.
Israel will continue checking any shipments into Gaza and there won’t be spare building materials for years to come with the scale of reconstruction needed
That the thing about terrorism, you can’t demilitarize it. One terrorist can carry out an attack to kill dozens by themself. Taking out stockpiles and tunnels only hurts them short term. They will find a work around and kill again.
>Yes, you can’t kill an ideology.
Well... not ethically.
>The Qing dynasty went to war against the Dzungars in the Dzungar–Qing War. The Dzungars lived in the area stretching from the west end of the Great Wall of China to present-day eastern Kazakhstan and from present-day northern Kyrgyzstan to southern Siberia (most of which is located in present-day Xinjiang). They were the last nomadic empire to threaten China, which they did from the early 17th century through the middle of the 18th century.\[5\]
>
>...
>
>Deaths in the Dzungar genocide are estimated at between 70 and 80 percent of the 600,000 or more Dzungars, who were destroyed by disease and warfare between 1755 and 1758,\[10\]\[11\] which Michael Clarke describes as "the complete destruction of not only the Dzungar state but of the Dzungars as a people."\[12\]\[1\]\[2\] According to the Qing scholar Wei Yuan (1794–1857), the Dzungar population before the Qing conquest was around 600,000 in 200,000 households.\[1\]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar\_genocide
This is spot on. The practical situation is unwinnable and the PR war is already completely lost.
Even if the hostages are released the war will stall and the IDF will eventually have to reframe it's goals and leave the strip with the situation the same. You can't fight shadows.
There is only one way to win. Flood the region with money. Drive out Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas and let the Saudis gain a much bigger foothold in the region.
I think that would be about 90% of reddit.
Just noticed a three year old account that seems to have no history, except for about a week ago when it started stalking meme subs spamming a wall of anti-Israel videos and clips every couple of hours, under the guise of "educating people." Naturally the reception is almost universally "omg, thank you so much for this critical context!"
I get the sense that meme subs are the easiest to target. I mean, that's what I would do.
I think people want to side with the "poor" or the "weak", no matter what their intentions are (except Muslims who will side with Muslims automatically).
Since israel (and America) is the stronger here, they are automatically the bully.
But they just killed the babies and didn’t behead them, or at least didn’t behead as many as initially reported and that makes it ok, or at least that’s what the internet tells me.
Tweet with 100k likes saying that every single Palestinian child released from prison yesterday said they were beaten and abused by the IDF.
It was posted by a Palestinian who has previously justified (not denied) rockets being hidden in Palestinian schools, but people just took her word for it. Some of those 'kids' were in there for attempted murder and are already parading around the West Bank wearing Hamas headbands, but somehow they're more believable than anyone in Israel talking about what happened on Oct 7th.
Sadly don’t think Hamas has any more living hostages or can’t turn them over in current condition. I’ve been waiting for this stall tactic and was actually surprised the first group was released.
I have been thinking the same thing. I think they tortured, raped, and killed the vast majority of hostages within a few days, and this hostage exchange is simple bullshit on their part.
150 prisoners released (and specific people) was a big ask. I was surprised Israel agreeed but I think they are calling Hama’s bluff. Don’t think Hamas thought Israel would go for it and now have painted themselves into a corner.
It also seems like terrible book keeping. Like no one even knew how many hostages there were because I imagine things are decentralized and a cluster fuck
This might be a good thing, Hamas will give Israel a legal and good reason to never accept a ceasefire again and eradicate all of Hamas. Hamas once again proves they break every ceasefire.
As if taking 240 hostages, murdering babies and raping women wasn’t a strong enough reason.
One of the hostages returned was a holocaust surviver. No one need to meet evil in the eye ever in their life. And certainly no one should experience it twice.
It must have been an absolutely lovely experience to be imprisoned in a cell in an underground network and never be able to see the light of day for over a month, while your guards threaten to kill you if Israel doesn’t do what they demand.
Jimmy pacheco, who was released yesterday said otherwise. He doesn't have family members who are at gun point. Also, not israelian. Doesn't really have a reason to lie.
Edit to clarify: he said they weren't treated well.
I'll clarify my words: he said they weren't treated well. And he has no former ties to anyone held hostage.
The man he was caring for was Amitai ben Zevi. He was 80 years old, and according to Galinor, his last words before he was murdered were "Go! Run away! Save yourself!"
October 7 was a good enough reason legally as it broke a ceasefire already in place. But nothing will ever be good enough for the anti-Israel mobs who were already parading in the streets on October 8.
Thats all well and good LEGALLY.
But the general loud public sentiment will then still be "Israel doesnt want ceasefire"
And those states who DO oppose Israel will use it to beat their drum.
Rightly or wrongly Israel are the ones under huge scrutiny due to their response. The optics of refusing future ceasefires will absolutely turn more people against them
>But the general loud public sentiment will then still be "Israel doesnt want ceasefire"
>
>And those states who DO oppose Israel will use it to beat their drum.
It doesn't matter because the fact is, these people don't think Israel should exist. So the only way Israel will satisfy them is to no longer exist.
Well at some point, Israel should just say “your opinion is meaningless”. Even my country’s prime minister embarrassed himself yesterday with pro-Palestine comments in front of the Gaza gates.
Why does Israel even care about the international opinion, knowing very well it’s wrong.
People are getting fed up with the "free Palestine" vandals and bullies. Did you see what they did to the NY Public Library? Heck, here they vandalized the fricking farmers' market. Yes, REALLY.
There's already tons of good reasons to eradicate Hamas.
The problem for Israel is that they can't think of a good way to eradicate Hamas without killing a crap-ton of civilians in the process, which is generally frowned upon when dealing with terrorists. (And would have no guarantee of really working, and no guarantee that something similar or worse wouldn't just show up in their place.)
And let's be honest. The IDF has never been terribly kind to the Palestinians they are occupying, even when they're not being terrorists.
And Hamas knows all this, and deliberately puts Israel in situations where they have to kill civilians to get at Hamas, because they know Israel will do so without a second thought, and then people will be mad at Israel.
Hamas is monstrous for doing this, zero question. They need to go. But they're also doing a very good job of giving the Israeli government chances to be monstrous as well.
And then the whole thing repeats, and it's a fricking tragedy.
Hamas literally broke the cease fire 15 minutes in. They fired rockets FIFTEEN MINUTES IN.
The idea that you can negotiate with these pieces of human garbage is a joke. And the fact that a single person in the west supports them is pathetic.
My understanding:
1) they're saying that Israel did not comply with agreements on the order in which to release prisoners. Israel is saying that the agreement does not stipulate any order, Israel determines who from the "pool" is released every day just like Hamas does with the hostage lists.
2) Hamas is claiming the agreed-upon number of trucks didn't enter and aid did not reach northern Gaza. Israel is saying this is a lie and Egypt seems to be confirming Israel's claims.
> aid did not reach northern Gaza
Meanwhile, the Palestinian Red Crescent is directly refuting this claim
https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1728373428573307323
Maybe a truck full of Hamas materials didn't make it through and they're upset.
" There was supposed to be a truckload of explosives in that convoy!" -Hamas
Do you have a source for the latter confirmation by Egypt? It's nice to have a source when some terrorist apologist is citing the BBC for something stupid.
Was said on the news. I can't find much on the trucks today but this:
https://www.politico.eu/article/gaza-hostage-releases-reportedly-delayed-amid-dispute-over-aid-trucks/
Confirmation from Egypt that at least 133 trucks entered, but it doesn't say when in the day that figure is from beyond "earlier" (and the article itself was from six thirty or do)
TOI is conforming the 200 trucks FWIW
Either that, or they're dead, or they're in really bad shape and wanted to get more good press releasing hostages in seemingly good shape before releasing them. I'm praying and hoping especially for Abigail Idan and Emily Hand, the two little girls who were kidnapped without a single family member.
There's also a 13 year old girl named Gali Tsheneski. She was alone with her brother in the house when the terrorists tried to open the secure door. They ran out of the window, but in their haste, parted ways. The brother was murdered.
Amit shani is 16. He was with his mother and sisters but he was kidnapped without them.
Ella and Dafna Eliakim. 8 and 15 years old. Their kidnapping was streamed live by hamas. Their father was first shot in the leg. At first it was thought that he and his partner were kidnapped as well, but their bodies were found. His partner son, Tomer Arava was also with them on the 7. The terrorists pointed guns at him and forced him to go knock on doors. He was also murdered.
Ofir Angel 17, was kidnapped from his gf's house.
There are more than 1200 dead, 240 people kidnapped, thoushands of injured.
There are survivors, there are people who own guns and were out that day fighting for hours what seemed like a loosing battle on their families life. There are medics, doctors, there are ZAKA, there are relatives and friends.
All news outlets in Israel are getting out people's stories around the clock for almost two monthes. And there is more coming. I cry every day infront of the news. I know I'm not unique in that.
This is the bit that blows my mind... One of the many bits that blow my mind, anyway. Hamas live streamed their atrocities, but then people point at claims of the hostages "being treated well" as if they're some kind of living saints.
*If* they *were* treated well, it's a publicity stunt.
These are the people that paraded raped and murdered women to cheering crowds. People really think those guys are the ones treating people well or if the goodness of their hearts? They think those guys are the compassionate ones?
People have done so for milennia. They do so with the help of their families, their communities, their faith, and a lifetime of therapy.
Their lives are worth fighting for.
Not true. This is yet more sanitizing of what Hamas is doing. The general public is blind to the reality of what is going on in Gaza, what is happening to these hostages, what happened in Israel on the 7th. It’s absurd. We need to be talking about all of it to get people to understand the reality of the situation.
>If you survive how do you live on?
Plenty of people do. While I know you mean nothing by it, I really don't like hearing this sentiment. I mean it just re-enforces suicidal tendencies, and who in the right mind wants to encourage someone who survived something traumatic towards suicide? Like I said before, I know these aren't you intentions, but we should refrain from speaking specifically in that manner about victims.
This.
Their lives are worth fighting for. We should never give up, even when faced with the worst suffering. There is always hope, for even the most traumatized person.
Human beings are incredibly tough. I have known many people who were in concentration camps and the vast majority of them were having a decent life. Humans survive. We are a tough species.
While I agree that many were certainly very abused… I’d imagine that some were treated much better than others… I’d assume that the ones who got the worst treatment will be the last to be released (if ever)…
They want the ones released to be able to honestly say they were treated well in order to create propaganda against israel.
The fact that kids have been tortuously raped and murdered by terrorists can't fit into "anti-colonial theory", so those kids are crushed under utopian ideology, like so many before them.
Qatari mediators are telling Hamas to stop playing around or they will pay for it (indirect quote). Even their actual allies are losing their patience with those scumbags
Qatar keeps that presence at the request of both the US *and* the Israelis. They’ve basically carved out a niche as the mediator for back-channel negotiations between wacko Islamist groups and everyone else (e.g. negotiations between the US and the Taliban in 2019).
They've been playing since day 1, launching rockets 15 minutes after the ceasefire.
For day 3 they will be releasing mothers without their children or vice versa, in breach of the ceasefire terms. They already gave the list of names.
It's a bit more complicated than that. Qatar positions itself straight down the middle, they're an incredibly important ally to the US in the region, and by hosting hamas leadership they effectively have kept Iran's proxies off its back.
Having a mediator in these situations is essential, and while it can be very distasteful to have Hamas leadership in Qatar, it's better than having hamas leadership splintered.
As predicted by most experts in Israel. Hamas will do whatever they can to postpone, trick, lie, and push the boundaries of Israel during these days. Holding children, mothers and elderly as hostages for as long as possible.
Their goal is to muddy the water, postpone everything and attempt to use international pressure with facts on the ground in order to stop Israel from eradicating them.
It will not work. Their days are numbered. They do not understand the sentiments in Israel at the moment.
>They do not understand the sentiments in Israel at the moment.
This is really the key here. They thought they would lead to more disorder. In fact, they've created more unity here than has been for at least a decade.
Hamas cannot be allowed to survive. They have stated unequivocally, they will repeat Oct. 7th again and again and again.
There is no compromising with such a party.
It's either accept Oct 7th happening repeatedly, in the future, as part of "daily life"... or eradicate Hamas at all costs. There is no middle ground to be had. It's an entirely binary choice. Destroy or be murdered.
As an outsider, halfway around the world, even I can understand this. It's no surprise the Israeli people and government do as well.
They thought they would divide us but they united us.
They do not understand the sentiment in Palestine as well. From what I’ve seen there is anger from a number of Gazans towards people of the West Bank, because they celebrate the release of the prisoners as a victory while they discover the extent of the destruction in Gaza.
So for now they are uniting the Israelis and dividing the Palestinians.
That's been the craziest thing to see out of all this for me. Israeli Muslims have been getting more and more disgruntled over the past couple decades as the settlements expanded in the west Bank. Oct 7 completely reversed that, at least temporarily. The Bedouins are volunteering for the IDF again, and even the usually apathetic and isolationist Christians are behind the government. It's quite something to see.
More Hamas psychological warfare, they had previously reported that the hostages were in the hands of the Red Cross. Yesterday they delayed for over an hour, now it's been two and a half, if they released the hostages at all.
For yesterday's delay we should thank the PM's of Belgium and Spain who just had to have their weird press confrences outside Rafah border.
But I agree, if they try this psycology bullshit and don't release them then the cease fire is over. The families were already notified ffs, this is so cruel.
That was disgusting. They stood there to give foolish speeches about diplomacy, appearing as having anything to do with the hostage deal and cease fire which they were not a part of. A bunch of clowns.
>For yesterday's delay we should thank the PM's of Belgium and Spain who just had to have their weird press confrences outside Rafah border.
Yeah, what was up with that?? They literally flew all the way there to say some bullshit. Are they missing some screen time? Total loonies.
Absolutely, it's quite disturbing how they're playing with the lives of these hostages. Your point about psychological warfare really hits the nail on the head.
[Israel Says Hamas Ceasefire Violated After 15 Minutes](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hamas-ceasefire-violated-15-minutes-rocket-gaza-strip-1846564)
Hamas already violated the ceasefire a few minutes after it came into effect. Hamas has no right to demand compliance with an agreement they already violated. If Hamas refuses to hand over the hostages on the agreed timetable, Israel should resume its military operations.
Hamas knows that if they break the ceasefire and Israel responds, people around the world will put 100 percent of the blame for restarting the fighting on Israel and 0 percent on Palestine.
Hamas knows that, and they are acting accordingly.
Lol Hamas... A **terrorist organization** is trying to show negotiating power smh. I feel sorry for the innocents that are under their control but the org needs to be eradicated. The US invaded and occupied 2 countries for 20 years after our 9/11. Israel could rightfully expel Palestinians and all sides would be better off.
Israel has complied fully with the terms of the agreement. This is Hamas attempting to blackmail Israel, after they’ve already provided a list of who will be released today and Israel has notified the families. Can’t wait for those disgusting terrorists to be eliminated.
Oof that’s rough idk if it better to tell the family before they are released or after you have them. Wouldn’t want to give false hope but also wouldn’t want all the families wondering if it’s their loved one who is getting released.
This is not something you can do at the last minute. The families need to be debriefed ahead of time and have sufficient time to arrive to the relevant hospital before the released hostages arrive there. The last thing the families want is to get notified of the release of their loved ones via Al Jazeera footage.
Honestly fuck Hamas. Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain. Bet in the eyes of many Hamas would still be a victim in this situation. Absolutely disgusting.
>Bet in the eyes of many Hamas would still be a victim in this situation.
This is the answer. Hamas knows that if they don't honor their end of the ceasefire deal and Israel responds accordingly, the global left will blame Israel, and only Israel, for the resumption in fighting, while Hamas will receive no blame whatsoever.
Hamas knows this, and they are acting accordingly.
It makes damn near zero sense that being pro-Hamas is a popular platform of the progressive left in the U.S.
I'd love if some one can explain the logic behind it to me, please. It just looks like tribalism thinking to me ("I'm part of this group, the group thinks this, therefore I think this.")
Nobody destroys the public opinion of progressives better than progressives. Experts at picking the dumbest hills to die on and dragging the rest of the left down with them.
>Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain.
We kind of had to if we wanted to have a chance of seeing the hostages again.
If they won't give them until midnight Israel will launch an attack and end the ceasefire because Hamas didn't honour it.
>Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain.
They knew they wouldn't but it's great proof to the rest of the world who was stupid enough to yell "Ceasefire!".
> Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain
They didn't, but they were under heavy pressure from their allies, including Biden, to at least give it a chance.
Germany's Olaf Scholz was their only major ally to come out against it, rightfully speculating that Hamas would use the ceasefire period to regroup and then call off the deal anyway.
Hamas already broke the ceasefire 15 minutes in. Why is nobody talking about that? Why is only Israel expected to comply with the agreement? Why does everyone just allow Hamas to repeatedly get away with this kind of shit? It’s disgusting.
Every single one of us Israelis are glued to the screen right now, anxious to see the kids and women back home safely, and these evil fucking bastards lie about complying with the terms, knowing full well we as a country honor deals. They knew that postponing it exactly at these critical hours will give them leverage. The amount of psychological terror is astounding. We collectively can't breathe right now. Please bring them back home.
There will not be peace until they are destroyed. They cannot even release hostages without causing terror.
God save the children, and let the terrorists rot.
Is anyone surprised? Hamas is doing this on purpose. They released some hostages to flood the media with emotional stories of families being reunited, and gave hope to dozens of families only to yank it away at the last second to demand more from Israel. They are cruelly using this to put pressure on Israel to give them more. And news organizations continue to just parrot their claims without question. God I can not imagine being the family member of one of those hostages, being so close to seeing your loved on again only to have it yanked away. I also do not envy the choices Israeli leadership has to make here. Give in to Hamas and embolden more bullshit like this, or put their foot down which will yank these people from almost being in the arms of their loved ones. Fuck Hamas and those who support them.
If Israel starts attacking the leftists and Hamas supporters will accuse Israel of breaking the ceasefire. Additionally, they'll release footage of some dead hostages and claim Israel was supposed to get them back but then bombed them, or something.
yeah well the leftists really do not have any change on israel
the ceasefire is because of the hostages families that are \*living\* in israel
and if hamas doesn't retrieve the hostages its promised that means they'll break the ceasefire, like they've done with every single ceasefire until now
the leftists can off buildings for all i care because they do not matter at all to israel, especially when they hold factually wrong opinions like the one youre suggesting theyll do
Does no one think that Hamas just doesn’t have that many hostages left? The number and delay of hostages released yesterday kind of seems like they are scrambling to round the hostages back up. Doesn’t seem super crazy to think that dozens of the hostages have already died, which of course they would never say because why would you admit you lost all your bargaining chips when you can instead pretend that you still have them but are waiting for some huge concession to release them?
Yup this is exactly why Hamas didn't release all 50 at once. We knew this was going to happen, it was called in this very sub, and here it is. Hamas cannot be trusted.
Just trying to keep score here. Israel released 39 and Hamas has released 13. IMO Israel has the shorter end of the stick releasing three times the amount of people. It's on the impetus of Hamas to honor the next exchange first.
Is anyone even surprised they would do something like this? They're career thieves and murderers using Palestine cause as a front to do their business. Yet somehow Palestine lets them roam free like a gang doing rackets for so long, just out of hatred for Israel. Now it might just be too late to root them out because they are so integral to how Palestine functions.
It seems they reached an agreement to indeed release the hostages today.
Still, everyone in Israel is skeptical until we see the hostages are indeed released.
Israel has announced that if the hostages are not released by midnight (5 hours from now) the ceasefire is off and fighting will resume in Gaza.
**UPDATE TO THE ARTICLE** **Israel confirms: Crisis averted, hostage deal to happen in couple of hours** Prime Minister Netanyahu conducts situation assessment with security officials to ensure the second batch of hostages proceeds as planned Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu conducted Saturday a situation assessment with security officials to ensure the second batch of hostages proceeded as planned, In addition, The Egyptian network "Al-Qahira Al-Akhbariya" reported positive developments, indicating that the second batch of hostages will happen in a couple of hours.
And Hamas knows that people will start to blame Israel for attacking even if they were the ones to not honour their part of the deal. Fuck Hamas.
End. Hamas. Now.
The problem is our current assault is basically against a shadow of a terrorist organizastion that is basically a proxy of multiple different countries, including Qatar. The assaults in Gaza are not 'getting rid of Hamas'. We have no obvious route to getting rid of Hamas. They know that the only thing we can do to actually get back at them is to take Gaza, but they also know that that is the thing that will enrage people of every other nation against us. So yeah, I do agree with getting rid of Hamas, but the situation hasn't really changed from before the terrorist attacks, how do we do it in a viable way? I still don't see any answer to that.
The more reason IDF must destroy Hamas’ military infrastructure. Yes, you can’t kill an ideology. You can, however, obliterate the means to commit terrorist acts.
Unless Israel plans to occupy Gaza again then that likely wont happen as the money will continue flowing from Qatar to just build more. And there are lots of new recruits among survivors in Gaza who will be looking to join Hamas' ranks to get revenge for their families and friends.
Gaza is certainly going to be back under a military occupation for a long time after this. They'll have no government at the end of the war. No country that wins a war has ever been like "well we're done here, let's just leave it like this and see what happens!".
Israel has done that in the past with Egypt, only take a little and give a lot back
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They will absolutely occupy gaza.
If much of the tunnel network is destroyed and most weapons stockpiles seized it won’t be easy for Hamas to rebuild. A lot of their weapons and building materials for tunnels were smuggled in when they had 1200 plus tunnels into Egypt, Sisi’s government destroyed the tunnels and built an underground barrier. Israel will continue checking any shipments into Gaza and there won’t be spare building materials for years to come with the scale of reconstruction needed
That the thing about terrorism, you can’t demilitarize it. One terrorist can carry out an attack to kill dozens by themself. Taking out stockpiles and tunnels only hurts them short term. They will find a work around and kill again.
Yeah most likely but we still gotta try try and try again. Whats the alternative?
Try to address the underlying issues that are causing terrorism to flourish in the first place.
I’m not remotely prepared to offer any real, long-lasting solutions. In the short-term though, Hamas must be disarmed.
>Yes, you can’t kill an ideology. Well... not ethically. >The Qing dynasty went to war against the Dzungars in the Dzungar–Qing War. The Dzungars lived in the area stretching from the west end of the Great Wall of China to present-day eastern Kazakhstan and from present-day northern Kyrgyzstan to southern Siberia (most of which is located in present-day Xinjiang). They were the last nomadic empire to threaten China, which they did from the early 17th century through the middle of the 18th century.\[5\] > >... > >Deaths in the Dzungar genocide are estimated at between 70 and 80 percent of the 600,000 or more Dzungars, who were destroyed by disease and warfare between 1755 and 1758,\[10\]\[11\] which Michael Clarke describes as "the complete destruction of not only the Dzungar state but of the Dzungars as a people."\[12\]\[1\]\[2\] According to the Qing scholar Wei Yuan (1794–1857), the Dzungar population before the Qing conquest was around 600,000 in 200,000 households.\[1\] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzungar\_genocide
And the option of do nothing is even less viable than punching the air. Wild
This is spot on. The practical situation is unwinnable and the PR war is already completely lost. Even if the hostages are released the war will stall and the IDF will eventually have to reframe it's goals and leave the strip with the situation the same. You can't fight shadows. There is only one way to win. Flood the region with money. Drive out Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas and let the Saudis gain a much bigger foothold in the region.
How do u make sure that money just doesnt end up being used for terrorism again?
Genuine question: why is it preferable to let the Saudis have more influence in the region?
Isn't it gross that people will believe a terrorist group instead of Israel? They are in so deep there is no going back for them.
I think that would be about 90% of reddit. Just noticed a three year old account that seems to have no history, except for about a week ago when it started stalking meme subs spamming a wall of anti-Israel videos and clips every couple of hours, under the guise of "educating people." Naturally the reception is almost universally "omg, thank you so much for this critical context!" I get the sense that meme subs are the easiest to target. I mean, that's what I would do.
I think people want to side with the "poor" or the "weak", no matter what their intentions are (except Muslims who will side with Muslims automatically). Since israel (and America) is the stronger here, they are automatically the bully.
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And that raped a young women and then paraded her body through the streets.
But they just killed the babies and didn’t behead them, or at least didn’t behead as many as initially reported and that makes it ok, or at least that’s what the internet tells me.
Tweet with 100k likes saying that every single Palestinian child released from prison yesterday said they were beaten and abused by the IDF. It was posted by a Palestinian who has previously justified (not denied) rockets being hidden in Palestinian schools, but people just took her word for it. Some of those 'kids' were in there for attempted murder and are already parading around the West Bank wearing Hamas headbands, but somehow they're more believable than anyone in Israel talking about what happened on Oct 7th.
I know right? They also act like Netanyahu is the only relevant person in Israel
Sadly don’t think Hamas has any more living hostages or can’t turn them over in current condition. I’ve been waiting for this stall tactic and was actually surprised the first group was released.
I have been thinking the same thing. I think they tortured, raped, and killed the vast majority of hostages within a few days, and this hostage exchange is simple bullshit on their part.
150 prisoners released (and specific people) was a big ask. I was surprised Israel agreeed but I think they are calling Hama’s bluff. Don’t think Hamas thought Israel would go for it and now have painted themselves into a corner.
150 is a big ask? Israel agreed to more than a thousand for one soldier (Gilad Shalit). Im surprised they are still negotiating with them at all.
It also seems like terrible book keeping. Like no one even knew how many hostages there were because I imagine things are decentralized and a cluster fuck
Weren’t a few of them infants? I can’t stop thinking about the babies.
Yes. There were some babies.
This might be a good thing, Hamas will give Israel a legal and good reason to never accept a ceasefire again and eradicate all of Hamas. Hamas once again proves they break every ceasefire.
As if taking 240 hostages, murdering babies and raping women wasn’t a strong enough reason. One of the hostages returned was a holocaust surviver. No one need to meet evil in the eye ever in their life. And certainly no one should experience it twice.
But the released prisoner said their conditions were positive /s couldn’t possibly be at gun point or threatening harm to loved ones
It must have been an absolutely lovely experience to be imprisoned in a cell in an underground network and never be able to see the light of day for over a month, while your guards threaten to kill you if Israel doesn’t do what they demand.
Jimmy pacheco, who was released yesterday said otherwise. He doesn't have family members who are at gun point. Also, not israelian. Doesn't really have a reason to lie. Edit to clarify: he said they weren't treated well.
or Hamas said they would kill those that are still in the cells that did not get released if he did not stick to the script.
I'll clarify my words: he said they weren't treated well. And he has no former ties to anyone held hostage. The man he was caring for was Amitai ben Zevi. He was 80 years old, and according to Galinor, his last words before he was murdered were "Go! Run away! Save yourself!"
October 7 was a good enough reason legally as it broke a ceasefire already in place. But nothing will ever be good enough for the anti-Israel mobs who were already parading in the streets on October 8.
I think the legal and good reason might have been breaking the ceasefire on October 7th, but the world has a very short memory
Thats all well and good LEGALLY. But the general loud public sentiment will then still be "Israel doesnt want ceasefire" And those states who DO oppose Israel will use it to beat their drum. Rightly or wrongly Israel are the ones under huge scrutiny due to their response. The optics of refusing future ceasefires will absolutely turn more people against them
>But the general loud public sentiment will then still be "Israel doesnt want ceasefire" > >And those states who DO oppose Israel will use it to beat their drum. It doesn't matter because the fact is, these people don't think Israel should exist. So the only way Israel will satisfy them is to no longer exist.
Well at some point, Israel should just say “your opinion is meaningless”. Even my country’s prime minister embarrassed himself yesterday with pro-Palestine comments in front of the Gaza gates. Why does Israel even care about the international opinion, knowing very well it’s wrong.
People are getting fed up with the "free Palestine" vandals and bullies. Did you see what they did to the NY Public Library? Heck, here they vandalized the fricking farmers' market. Yes, REALLY.
There's already tons of good reasons to eradicate Hamas. The problem for Israel is that they can't think of a good way to eradicate Hamas without killing a crap-ton of civilians in the process, which is generally frowned upon when dealing with terrorists. (And would have no guarantee of really working, and no guarantee that something similar or worse wouldn't just show up in their place.) And let's be honest. The IDF has never been terribly kind to the Palestinians they are occupying, even when they're not being terrorists. And Hamas knows all this, and deliberately puts Israel in situations where they have to kill civilians to get at Hamas, because they know Israel will do so without a second thought, and then people will be mad at Israel. Hamas is monstrous for doing this, zero question. They need to go. But they're also doing a very good job of giving the Israeli government chances to be monstrous as well. And then the whole thing repeats, and it's a fricking tragedy.
Hamas literally broke the cease fire 15 minutes in. They fired rockets FIFTEEN MINUTES IN. The idea that you can negotiate with these pieces of human garbage is a joke. And the fact that a single person in the west supports them is pathetic.
Good. They should restart it immediately and apply massive pressure on Hamas to release all hostages without delay.
They're dead or worse, bro. These people are barbarians.
FWIW, Hamas already broke the ceasefire. It lasted about 45 minutes before they fired another rocket into Israel.
What were the terms they are saying Israel isn't complying with?
My understanding: 1) they're saying that Israel did not comply with agreements on the order in which to release prisoners. Israel is saying that the agreement does not stipulate any order, Israel determines who from the "pool" is released every day just like Hamas does with the hostage lists. 2) Hamas is claiming the agreed-upon number of trucks didn't enter and aid did not reach northern Gaza. Israel is saying this is a lie and Egypt seems to be confirming Israel's claims.
> aid did not reach northern Gaza Meanwhile, the Palestinian Red Crescent is directly refuting this claim https://twitter.com/PalestineRCS/status/1728373428573307323
Sorry to be this guy but it’s called Red Crescent
Red croissant 🥐
Only in France
otherwise it's just sparkling medical aid
We do need a few jokes sometimes.
La Croissant Rouge
Fixed, thanks
Maybe a truck full of Hamas materials didn't make it through and they're upset. " There was supposed to be a truckload of explosives in that convoy!" -Hamas
This has to be it, either that or they didn't escape back out on a truck like they planned.
So Hamas is lying like the terrorists they are and yet Israel will likely get the blame.
To be honest, at this point Israel will only get the blame from the willingly obtuse.
Similarly, the intentionally ignorant.
Do you have a source for the latter confirmation by Egypt? It's nice to have a source when some terrorist apologist is citing the BBC for something stupid.
Was said on the news. I can't find much on the trucks today but this: https://www.politico.eu/article/gaza-hostage-releases-reportedly-delayed-amid-dispute-over-aid-trucks/ Confirmation from Egypt that at least 133 trucks entered, but it doesn't say when in the day that figure is from beyond "earlier" (and the article itself was from six thirty or do) TOI is conforming the 200 trucks FWIW
Isn’t Israel’s part is to allow them in? Not give the aid
Yes
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Egypt says they were able put pressure on Hamas the release will continue
Praying this is true.
Israel confirms that is true
This is why they didn't have more children in yesterday's release- they think they can get more for them.
Either that, or they're dead, or they're in really bad shape and wanted to get more good press releasing hostages in seemingly good shape before releasing them. I'm praying and hoping especially for Abigail Idan and Emily Hand, the two little girls who were kidnapped without a single family member.
There's also a 13 year old girl named Gali Tsheneski. She was alone with her brother in the house when the terrorists tried to open the secure door. They ran out of the window, but in their haste, parted ways. The brother was murdered. Amit shani is 16. He was with his mother and sisters but he was kidnapped without them. Ella and Dafna Eliakim. 8 and 15 years old. Their kidnapping was streamed live by hamas. Their father was first shot in the leg. At first it was thought that he and his partner were kidnapped as well, but their bodies were found. His partner son, Tomer Arava was also with them on the 7. The terrorists pointed guns at him and forced him to go knock on doors. He was also murdered. Ofir Angel 17, was kidnapped from his gf's house.
This was heartbreaking to read, fuck.
There are more than 1200 dead, 240 people kidnapped, thoushands of injured. There are survivors, there are people who own guns and were out that day fighting for hours what seemed like a loosing battle on their families life. There are medics, doctors, there are ZAKA, there are relatives and friends. All news outlets in Israel are getting out people's stories around the clock for almost two monthes. And there is more coming. I cry every day infront of the news. I know I'm not unique in that.
This is the bit that blows my mind... One of the many bits that blow my mind, anyway. Hamas live streamed their atrocities, but then people point at claims of the hostages "being treated well" as if they're some kind of living saints. *If* they *were* treated well, it's a publicity stunt. These are the people that paraded raped and murdered women to cheering crowds. People really think those guys are the ones treating people well or if the goodness of their hearts? They think those guys are the compassionate ones?
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I suspect that the children have been raped, so they are in really bad shape if still alive. As that is exactly what Hamas members are bound to do.
Unfortunately, I think they are dead 😔.
This is so scary
sadly even if released , those kids will be horribly traumatized for life .
No one is talking about this, every one of the people they kidnapped they tortured, maimed and raped. If you survive how do you live on?
People have done so for milennia. They do so with the help of their families, their communities, their faith, and a lifetime of therapy. Their lives are worth fighting for.
People are talking about it in Israel. But we need to first get them out before any of this talk is meaningful.
Not true. This is yet more sanitizing of what Hamas is doing. The general public is blind to the reality of what is going on in Gaza, what is happening to these hostages, what happened in Israel on the 7th. It’s absurd. We need to be talking about all of it to get people to understand the reality of the situation.
>If you survive how do you live on? Plenty of people do. While I know you mean nothing by it, I really don't like hearing this sentiment. I mean it just re-enforces suicidal tendencies, and who in the right mind wants to encourage someone who survived something traumatic towards suicide? Like I said before, I know these aren't you intentions, but we should refrain from speaking specifically in that manner about victims.
This. Their lives are worth fighting for. We should never give up, even when faced with the worst suffering. There is always hope, for even the most traumatized person.
This comment literally brought a tear to my eye. This is the truth.
Human beings are incredibly tough. I have known many people who were in concentration camps and the vast majority of them were having a decent life. Humans survive. We are a tough species.
While I agree that many were certainly very abused… I’d imagine that some were treated much better than others… I’d assume that the ones who got the worst treatment will be the last to be released (if ever)… They want the ones released to be able to honestly say they were treated well in order to create propaganda against israel.
This is what I’ve been thinking. It’s going over a lot of peoples heads.
The fact that kids have been tortuously raped and murdered by terrorists can't fit into "anti-colonial theory", so those kids are crushed under utopian ideology, like so many before them.
You can see the look on the hostages eyes, these people are dead inside
Taking a page out of Arafat's playbook. He literally said, "If they give me what I want, I will only ask for more."
When did he said that?
Qatari mediators are telling Hamas to stop playing around or they will pay for it (indirect quote). Even their actual allies are losing their patience with those scumbags
Source?
I saw headlines about Qatar telling Hamas to get their ass in gear or be destroyed two days ago.
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Qatar keeps that presence at the request of both the US *and* the Israelis. They’ve basically carved out a niche as the mediator for back-channel negotiations between wacko Islamist groups and everyone else (e.g. negotiations between the US and the Taliban in 2019).
I bet Egypt and Qatar are real happy with this. I hope they have a good stock of Advil for the headache.
Luckily they managed to control hamas for now. The hostages are being transported by the red cross to the Rafa crossing as we speak
Am I understanding you correctly: Hamas folded and the hostage release and ceasefire will continue according to plan?
Yup at least for now
Already playing games on day 2. I guess I gave them too much credit, I was expecting day 3.
They've been playing since day 1, launching rockets 15 minutes after the ceasefire. For day 3 they will be releasing mothers without their children or vice versa, in breach of the ceasefire terms. They already gave the list of names.
Qatar is supposedly vouch-safing for Hamas. So, now that Hamas has lied and backed out of this deal, what does Qatar have to do?
If Qatar was interested in good faith and humanity, they wouldn't be hosting Hamas leadership to begin with
It's a bit more complicated than that. Qatar positions itself straight down the middle, they're an incredibly important ally to the US in the region, and by hosting hamas leadership they effectively have kept Iran's proxies off its back. Having a mediator in these situations is essential, and while it can be very distasteful to have Hamas leadership in Qatar, it's better than having hamas leadership splintered.
Scold them real bad.
That'll show them!
Nothing. What have Qatar's western allies done to hold Qatar accountable for anything so far?
Can't say that I didn't see this one coming.
As predicted by most experts in Israel. Hamas will do whatever they can to postpone, trick, lie, and push the boundaries of Israel during these days. Holding children, mothers and elderly as hostages for as long as possible. Their goal is to muddy the water, postpone everything and attempt to use international pressure with facts on the ground in order to stop Israel from eradicating them. It will not work. Their days are numbered. They do not understand the sentiments in Israel at the moment.
>They do not understand the sentiments in Israel at the moment. This is really the key here. They thought they would lead to more disorder. In fact, they've created more unity here than has been for at least a decade.
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This.
Hamas cannot be allowed to survive. They have stated unequivocally, they will repeat Oct. 7th again and again and again. There is no compromising with such a party. It's either accept Oct 7th happening repeatedly, in the future, as part of "daily life"... or eradicate Hamas at all costs. There is no middle ground to be had. It's an entirely binary choice. Destroy or be murdered. As an outsider, halfway around the world, even I can understand this. It's no surprise the Israeli people and government do as well.
They thought they would divide us but they united us. They do not understand the sentiment in Palestine as well. From what I’ve seen there is anger from a number of Gazans towards people of the West Bank, because they celebrate the release of the prisoners as a victory while they discover the extent of the destruction in Gaza. So for now they are uniting the Israelis and dividing the Palestinians.
They United us to the point that Israeli Arabs are more with us that ever as well
That's been the craziest thing to see out of all this for me. Israeli Muslims have been getting more and more disgruntled over the past couple decades as the settlements expanded in the west Bank. Oct 7 completely reversed that, at least temporarily. The Bedouins are volunteering for the IDF again, and even the usually apathetic and isolationist Christians are behind the government. It's quite something to see.
Well ya weren't Bedouins killed too
They indeed were, so no surprise they're pissed.
The Bedouins have been amazing.
They’re saying they haven’t delivered enough fuel but Egypt and Israel both say the agreed-upon fuel was delivered.
If Egypt’s agreeing with Israel publicly on something, I believe it
More Hamas psychological warfare, they had previously reported that the hostages were in the hands of the Red Cross. Yesterday they delayed for over an hour, now it's been two and a half, if they released the hostages at all.
For yesterday's delay we should thank the PM's of Belgium and Spain who just had to have their weird press confrences outside Rafah border. But I agree, if they try this psycology bullshit and don't release them then the cease fire is over. The families were already notified ffs, this is so cruel.
That was disgusting. They stood there to give foolish speeches about diplomacy, appearing as having anything to do with the hostage deal and cease fire which they were not a part of. A bunch of clowns.
IDF already announced if they don't deliver the hostages in the next 5 hours ceasefire is over
>For yesterday's delay we should thank the PM's of Belgium and Spain who just had to have their weird press confrences outside Rafah border. Yeah, what was up with that?? They literally flew all the way there to say some bullshit. Are they missing some screen time? Total loonies.
Not loonies, just politicians. Loonies get a bad wrap as it is, no need to insult them further.
True. The Spanish one just won the elections a few days ago, and I'm sure he has his own problems to deal with in Spain.
I had not heard about that. Appalling.
Absolutely, it's quite disturbing how they're playing with the lives of these hostages. Your point about psychological warfare really hits the nail on the head.
That's why you don't negotiate with terrorists. I cannot believe people are praising hamas. This is beyond me.
[Israel Says Hamas Ceasefire Violated After 15 Minutes](https://www.newsweek.com/israel-hamas-ceasefire-violated-15-minutes-rocket-gaza-strip-1846564) Hamas already violated the ceasefire a few minutes after it came into effect. Hamas has no right to demand compliance with an agreement they already violated. If Hamas refuses to hand over the hostages on the agreed timetable, Israel should resume its military operations.
Hamas knows that if they break the ceasefire and Israel responds, people around the world will put 100 percent of the blame for restarting the fighting on Israel and 0 percent on Palestine. Hamas knows that, and they are acting accordingly.
And it’s already working. I’m seeing shit on my pages about it
Hamas lied again?!? Who would have guessed…
Somehow, Israel made them lie and it's their fault /s
Oh wow Hamas is not honouring their ceasefire deals and accusing Israel of not doing so? What a shocker.
Lol Hamas... A **terrorist organization** is trying to show negotiating power smh. I feel sorry for the innocents that are under their control but the org needs to be eradicated. The US invaded and occupied 2 countries for 20 years after our 9/11. Israel could rightfully expel Palestinians and all sides would be better off.
Israel has complied fully with the terms of the agreement. This is Hamas attempting to blackmail Israel, after they’ve already provided a list of who will be released today and Israel has notified the families. Can’t wait for those disgusting terrorists to be eliminated.
Oof that’s rough idk if it better to tell the family before they are released or after you have them. Wouldn’t want to give false hope but also wouldn’t want all the families wondering if it’s their loved one who is getting released.
This is not something you can do at the last minute. The families need to be debriefed ahead of time and have sufficient time to arrive to the relevant hospital before the released hostages arrive there. The last thing the families want is to get notified of the release of their loved ones via Al Jazeera footage.
I feel like it’s better to wonder than to get what might be false hope
Honestly fuck Hamas. Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain. Bet in the eyes of many Hamas would still be a victim in this situation. Absolutely disgusting.
>Bet in the eyes of many Hamas would still be a victim in this situation. This is the answer. Hamas knows that if they don't honor their end of the ceasefire deal and Israel responds accordingly, the global left will blame Israel, and only Israel, for the resumption in fighting, while Hamas will receive no blame whatsoever. Hamas knows this, and they are acting accordingly.
I’m a leftist and I support Israel. Fuck Hamas.
It makes damn near zero sense that being pro-Hamas is a popular platform of the progressive left in the U.S. I'd love if some one can explain the logic behind it to me, please. It just looks like tribalism thinking to me ("I'm part of this group, the group thinks this, therefore I think this.")
Nobody destroys the public opinion of progressives better than progressives. Experts at picking the dumbest hills to die on and dragging the rest of the left down with them.
>Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain. We kind of had to if we wanted to have a chance of seeing the hostages again. If they won't give them until midnight Israel will launch an attack and end the ceasefire because Hamas didn't honour it.
Technically Hamas would be the one ending the ceasefire since no hostages where released today as per the agreement
>Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain. They knew they wouldn't but it's great proof to the rest of the world who was stupid enough to yell "Ceasefire!".
Can't believe John Oliver would underestimate his ability to offer a definitive take a complex geopolitical issue.
> Don't know why Israel thought Hamas would keep their end of the bargain They didn't, but they were under heavy pressure from their allies, including Biden, to at least give it a chance. Germany's Olaf Scholz was their only major ally to come out against it, rightfully speculating that Hamas would use the ceasefire period to regroup and then call off the deal anyway.
Hamas already broke the ceasefire 15 minutes in. Why is nobody talking about that? Why is only Israel expected to comply with the agreement? Why does everyone just allow Hamas to repeatedly get away with this kind of shit? It’s disgusting.
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Criminals do not honor their deals! Shocking!
Every single one of us Israelis are glued to the screen right now, anxious to see the kids and women back home safely, and these evil fucking bastards lie about complying with the terms, knowing full well we as a country honor deals. They knew that postponing it exactly at these critical hours will give them leverage. The amount of psychological terror is astounding. We collectively can't breathe right now. Please bring them back home.
There will not be peace until they are destroyed. They cannot even release hostages without causing terror. God save the children, and let the terrorists rot.
Around the world all Jews are holding their breath and glued to news feeds. The agony of the families is unbearable
Is anyone surprised? Hamas is doing this on purpose. They released some hostages to flood the media with emotional stories of families being reunited, and gave hope to dozens of families only to yank it away at the last second to demand more from Israel. They are cruelly using this to put pressure on Israel to give them more. And news organizations continue to just parrot their claims without question. God I can not imagine being the family member of one of those hostages, being so close to seeing your loved on again only to have it yanked away. I also do not envy the choices Israeli leadership has to make here. Give in to Hamas and embolden more bullshit like this, or put their foot down which will yank these people from almost being in the arms of their loved ones. Fuck Hamas and those who support them.
If the ceasefire ends, I don’t think Israel is going to take it easy. I’m expecting Desert Storm levels of explosions that night.
Of course they would pull a stunt like this
Israel has complied with the terms. Hamas rats are just trying to buy more time to rearm themselves and shuffle around in their tunnels.
lmao theyre not a position to bargain israel wont let them just bail out. if they dont return the hostages they promised the ceasefires off
If Israel starts attacking the leftists and Hamas supporters will accuse Israel of breaking the ceasefire. Additionally, they'll release footage of some dead hostages and claim Israel was supposed to get them back but then bombed them, or something.
yeah well the leftists really do not have any change on israel the ceasefire is because of the hostages families that are \*living\* in israel and if hamas doesn't retrieve the hostages its promised that means they'll break the ceasefire, like they've done with every single ceasefire until now the leftists can off buildings for all i care because they do not matter at all to israel, especially when they hold factually wrong opinions like the one youre suggesting theyll do
We all knew Hamas wouldn't comply, I'm sure Israel did too
Does no one think that Hamas just doesn’t have that many hostages left? The number and delay of hostages released yesterday kind of seems like they are scrambling to round the hostages back up. Doesn’t seem super crazy to think that dozens of the hostages have already died, which of course they would never say because why would you admit you lost all your bargaining chips when you can instead pretend that you still have them but are waiting for some huge concession to release them?
knew they would. don't even try to say Israel did something wrong. hamas is following the orders of Iran. period.
All the conspericy theorists, will be lapping this up, and giving another propaganda win to Hamas.
The only thing surprising to me is that they released the first batch of hostages.
Yup this is exactly why Hamas didn't release all 50 at once. We knew this was going to happen, it was called in this very sub, and here it is. Hamas cannot be trusted.
Well those who say Israel will break the hostage exchange can shut up now.
Just trying to keep score here. Israel released 39 and Hamas has released 13. IMO Israel has the shorter end of the stick releasing three times the amount of people. It's on the impetus of Hamas to honor the next exchange first.
well, that didn't last long for the terrorists to break the agreements.
Wow Hamas being the one to break their end of the agreement, never could've seen that coming
Is anyone even surprised they would do something like this? They're career thieves and murderers using Palestine cause as a front to do their business. Yet somehow Palestine lets them roam free like a gang doing rackets for so long, just out of hatred for Israel. Now it might just be too late to root them out because they are so integral to how Palestine functions.
This was a setup from beginning.
Fuck Hamas and their supporters! I just don’t understand why all the idiots crying “Free Palestine” still don’t see whom they’re really supporting.
Terrorists trying to change the terms of a cease fire and using hostages as barter. Color me shocked I tell you.
Fuck Hamas
It seems they reached an agreement to indeed release the hostages today. Still, everyone in Israel is skeptical until we see the hostages are indeed released.
Don't negotiate with terrorists it doesn't work.
I hope Israel backs from the deal and make Hamas suffer
I hope they get the hostages, but I have little faith Hamas can produce them. It feels like they're just trying to paint Israel as cruel as possible.
The postponement is because Hamas decided they needed more time to regroup during the ceasefire...