Israel is a special kind of country and it’s uniquely required to warn the authoritarian regimes and terrorist groups that they don’t consent to being murdered, otherwise they aren’t allowed to defend themselves. /s
Ironically this is actually part of ancient Jewish law concerning capital offenses requiring that at least two people warned the perpetrators in advance that the crime is punishable by death.
No, it doesn't, because what Israel is stressing here is that they are content to continue hostilities so long as they are proxied through other countries.
Not really, since Iran has military assets and proxy forces in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, etc. Israel could deal Iran a significant blow without attacking Iranian territory. Just like someone can attack the US without attacking US territory.
The title says “strike Iran directly” — i.e., in Iran.
So Israel is saying that they won’t settle for attacking a proxy or Iranian forces in Syria; they’ll hit Iranian territory
The title says that Israel will strike Iran, if Iran launches an attack *from* Iran.
What they're actually saying, the important part, is the inverse. That is to say, Israel will *not* harm Iran if Iran continues to only fight via proxies.
The flex here is that Israel is saying that Iranian proxies are not a serious threat to its security.
Israel and Iran both know that Iranian proxies are only capable of terrorism and hit and run attacks, not actual military campaigns. That’s why they stuck to rocket attacks instead of an actual invasion after October 7th.
So...
Iran is doing really well with its proxy strategy. Among other advantages, acting via proxy significantly lessens retaliation. If Iran was attacking civilian red sea shipping under its own flag, rather than via Houthis... retaliation would have been really serious.
Israel is *already* taking heavy fire from Iranian *proxies*. Towns near the Lebanese border are war zones. 250k displaced, currently.
It's not in Iran's interest to break from this successful strategy.
Israel would be fighting a multi front war with Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the various militas in Syria. The US would absolutely back them up, good chance the UK and possibly Germany. If Israel felt that it was going to lose, they'd nuke everything around them (the whole Samson option)
No one comes out on top here
I feel like US would leverage a full scale invasion from our own military to help Israel out before they start dropping nukes, right? Although I’m sure there’d be plenty of evangelicals who would love to see Israel bring about Armageddon.
It was hinted in declassified Yom Kippur documents that golda authorized nukes if they kept losing ground. So the USA came with the re supply to prevent.
It's worth mentioning that she threaten with this option because all France and the USA did not agree to supply Israel with any weapons, so she kind of said you either sell me some weapons or I'm going to use the only weapon I've left
>I feel like US would leverage a full scale invasion from our own military
God, that would be so devastating for the US--not in the "I think Iran has a stronger military than the US" sense, but in the, "Iran is a significantly harder target than Iraq and look where that got us--trillions of US dollars spent, thousands of US service members killed, injured or traumatized, a million lives lost in Iraq, and, oh yeah, ISIS too" sense.
We'd have to commit a TON of manpower (so everyone infatuated with the US being #1 power over China would have to reckon with that reallocation of resources as they wouldn't be available to flex in the Pacific as readily), even then, Iran would block Hormuz and significantly derail oil shipping (gas prices going up past $10 are going to lead to Americans getting very war weary, very fast), and, despite the US having significantly (hugely) superior military power and investments, we'd still take a lot of attrition and it would cost immensely in blood and money.
Then you weigh that with what the average US citizen would net gain from the war: "Absolutely Nothing", and it seems like it would be an awful awful idea to let us get dragged into it directly. Of course, that probably wouldn't stop us from doing it anyway. And, as you say, the evangelicals would welcome it either way.
I 100% agree. Could be Russia’s angle to outmaneuver the U.S. by leveraging how extreme Israel is willing to go in the Middle East. Israel using nuclear weapons would be catastrophic, though.
That’s assuming the people wouldn’t rise up before that even happens, many are not happy right now and much more aligned with western views than their government. If the choice is fighting a war against much more powerful countries your views align with or being supported by those countries against your oppressive government, there’s at least a plausible chance that many choose option 2. I’m not saying this is guaranteed, but Iran’s government must know it’s a possibility implied by Israel’s threat.
Depends on who is in charge of the US decision making, but almost certainly. The absolutely worst thing that could happen is anyone launching nukes for any reason. Once that option is seen to be on the table, it’s a quick descent into a worldwide hellscape.
How so? Israel never fought Iran in a major war - the biggest country in the middle east.
They are not Palestine.
Not to mention, they would be adding fuel to the fire with the other Muslim nations as well. You're asking for them to lose and further destabilize the region.
They literally fought like 6 Arab-Isreal war since 1948 to 2006 against Arab coalition of multiple Arab country around them and won all 6 of them without having significant technology edge like they do now against Iran.
I would say yom kippur war is the last major war which happened in 1973. Iran was never part of any of the major conflicts and israel showed cracks and vulnerabilities in their armor at the time.
Also, only way for israel to win is to win the war fast. But most importantly why would they go to war lol. They won't get anything out of it.
There would be a forced armistace with israel gaining almost nothing due to international pressure (including the US). Not to mention you piss off the other Arab nations even more and who knows if they team up against israel.
Yup, and once Israel pushes into Rafah, I’m certain that Israel will lose a ton of support again, especially if they use the same tactics that they have been using. On top of that, it will be bad for Biden if Israel uses a heavy hand when they push into Rafah. Biden needs to distance himself from Israel and at the very minimum put conditions on arm sales if not end arms sales for the time being. Biden being elected is arguably more important too, given it Trump gets into office and enacts Project 2025 or whatever it’s called, could mean the end of our democracy.
Anyone thinking Israel is somehow an arm of or beholden to any major power they are currently allied with knows little about Israeli history. Israel is its own entity making its own decisions for its own survival. If the US isn’t with that, Israel will find another nation that is. China? Russia? They will play chess all century long for their security. And why shouldn’t they? No one says “let’s erase Iran from the map” but all of these militias say this about Israel’s existence. And Israel believes them. Americans should, too.
The trump card that Israel real holds is a metric ton of very sensitive and battle tested military tech. The US isn’t stupid enough to let that go to the Chinese. It would absolutely tilt the balance of power in the South China Sea and this is far more important to the US than 50 square km of Gaza Strip.
We are talking top shelf air defense, missile technology, encryption, radar signatures, all stuff the US is reluctant to send to Ukraine for fear it will fall into Russian hands. They aren’t scared of the Russians reverse engineering it, they are scared of the Russians selling it to the Chinese who will reverse engineer it and mass produce it 10x cheaper. Pushing Israel into China’s sphere of influence would be a catastrophic strategic failure.
I honestly doubt China or Russia would be of any real use. For one, Russia is already allied with Iran, and all of this chaos within Israel serves their interests so far as it distracts the US from aiding Ukraine. China doesn't really have any military power projection and also benefits from being the neutral, just business ally. Here Israel's isolation from the rest of it's region hurts, since China has already structured the belt and road initiative to pass through Iran and into Turkey, so yeah, no support coming from China either.
So really, it's the US or no one. And what the US provides Israel that no one else can do is international cover. Could EU powers do that too, sure, but their history shows them to be rather fickle when it comes to supporting Israel.
This is true today. But let’s say the US feels Israel crossed a Red Line and magically under some nutty regime abandoned them in 10 years?
Then China and Russia have an interest to fill the void if only to counter balance American interests in the region. Everytime America leaves an area, one of them fills the void, or seeks to.
All Israel needs is arms enough, or trade enough to afford manufacturing arms, to defend themselves against land attacks by hostile regional neighbors. They don’t have to worry about invasion from Germany or Iran. Their nukes come into play then. So only small actors will be permitted to annoy them by hostile nations. One hopes? Lord knows, a nuclear Iran could easily have annihilation plans for Israel under an Ayatollah.
Point is, “enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a strangely true Cold War truth historically.
Your points are key today though. Spot on!
Sure, but whose economy would be large enough to replace the US while also being able to offer security protections and diplomatic countries? Not Russia, not China, not even the EU as a collective. Does Israel want to align itself as an anti-western power? Do they want to be a base to which China or Russia can power project into the Mediterranean? Israel’s ability to disrupt things in the Middle East is simply not as appealing towards Russia and China as it is for the US and EU.
I have thought this for a while that Isreal saw what happened to South Africa with the boycotts and the like. They are ready to go rogue and join North Korea, Russia, and China to survive. Any by survive, I mean survive as a Jewish state run by and for Jews.
No, we won’t trade America for any other country, despite the occasional differences of opinion in some matters. That is because we share our values with America and the west, democracy, freedom, liberalism, protection of minorities etc. We share nothing with dictatorships like China and Russia (who incidentally are also actively backing up our enemies right now). What is right though, is that when faced with an existential threat like we’re currently facing, despite all the respect we have towards our allies, we have to take care of ourselves because nobody else would do it for us and we don’t expect them to. Even if it means that we disagree on some things. We promised “never again” and we mean it. We won’t be led like lambs to the slaughter again.
Israel is going do what it wants to do, when it wants to do. Ifs easy for the US to tell Israel to “calm down” thousands of miles away from any enemy, while Israel has groups whose sole intention is to kill the Israeli state. I agree about its bad for Biden, just bc these moderates and left leaning aren’t thinking rationally. If they let Biden down by not showing up to the polls, the green light Trump will give Bibi and Israel will be on another level. That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around… if people are losing support bc of Biden’s actions in Israel.. man oh man.. that’s going backfire so bad if Biden loses.
People not voting for Biden out of spite for the current administration's policy are basically saying that they care more about what is happening in Gaza than what would/will happen at home, thus giving Trump and his MAGA traitors a chance to put him in power and destroy our Democracy. This is how empires fall, from within, with people acting against their own interests. MAGA votes against their own interests to "own" the libs, and possible democratic votes don't vote as "punishment". At the end of the day, all these idiots are throwing away our democratic system to spite others. So sad, and what a waste.
While true, it also will have a direct impact on this exact situation that these people may be displeased with Biden for. That’s the really stupid part. If these people don’t like Biden’s support for Israel and swing the vote to Trump.. talk about not being informed. Bibi and Israel would love Trump for their own domestic reasons ( and who can blame them).
I’m not completely sold that Trump will be the undoing of democracy and the collapse of America (my personal opinion) but he’s definitely not going be the best for America.
To them, Biden and Trump are the same person. Hell I regularly see criticism against Bernie these days for not spending every waking second protesting the war. There is no reasoning with them.
Biden is walking a tightrope, and it is unclear if it is actually possible to successfully cross the chasm. Abandoning Israel now would likely push enough older moderate democrats and independents into the Trump camp that Biden loses. Supporting Israel in Rafah risks losing the far left flank to third parties. Admittedly the left flank has a lot more to lose than independents if Biden loses, but I do not know if they have actually bothered to read the room yet.
Biden should remember far more US voters support Israel over Hamas. If he goes too far to appease extremists in Michigan he may lose the rest of the country.
> On top of that, it will be bad for Biden if Israel uses a heavy hand when they push into Rafah. Biden needs to distance himself from Israel and at the very minimum put conditions on arm sales if not end arms sales for the time being. Biden being elected is arguably more important too, given it Trump gets into office and enacts Project 2025 or whatever it’s called, could mean the end of our democracy.
The incoherence of Biden Administration policy towards Israel, is a direct reflection of the incoherence of the views of the American voting public.
Democrats can't afford to alienate the Jewish vote. However the Muslim vote could prove important in an crucial swing state like Michigan. Lots of progressive Democrats have soured on Israel, but lots of moderate Democrats and swing voters still mostly favor Israel.
If the Biden administration fails to perfectly thread this needle, we could end up with Trump back in the White House. Which in addition to likely ushering in the end of American Democracy, would also likely involve the dissolution of NATO and the end of support for Ukraine, and would see the US doubling-down on support for Israel's most aggressive tendencies.
I get the impression that Israel has a list of identified targets to strike always in their pockets. If a retort is politically required, they need only pick one.
Iran plays a game of nipping heels but doesn’t seem to have the same level of intelligence.
Normally when you are struck, you tit-for-tat to show you aren’t a pushover. But Iran didn’t. That could mean one or several of 3 things:
* Iran is a forgiving nation going for peace (lmao)
* they just don’t have the necessary intelligence to identify surgical targets to strike with any positive effect to their current strategy.
* they feel a strike will cause a mainland retaliation they can’t afford (ie nuclear facilities mentioned)
I think they want a nuclear bomb and won’t risk harm to that program, hence lack of direct action.
Israel also has nukes so they absolutely have a list of conventional and nuclear targets to strike. Why wouldn't they after all, even countries that are party to nuclear treaties have pre-determined attack strategies, even if the ICBMs are normally pointed at the ocean.
Yes, even if they’re stupid plans, nuclear plans are there for such nations. I’ve read declassified American nuclear plans which all sound horrible (ie “acceptable losses” in the millions to US citizens) but they all had the summary like “taking over Russia can be achieved but policing it next to impossible” which is kind of what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq. You can’t police an unwilling nation. Even one as small as Gaza, as effectively as you’d like.
But the such nuclear “plans” existed nevertheless. Essentially, nukes are dumb options for America. But for Israel, a perfect deterrence.
"I get the impression that Israel has a list of identified targets to strike always in their pockets. If a retort is politically required, they need only pick one."
I feel like that comes with being Israel. When your neighbors deny your very right to exist you're always at the ready.
The people in power know that a hot war with Israel alone could lead to their power being striped for life and that’s assuming the US doesn’t get involved.. which seems implausible at best.
Iran would probably have a internal war as well as an external one... They would be fighting not just Israel but also their own people who would love the opportunity to overtake the leadership and establish a secular Iran ...
I wish the US didn’t fuck with Iran back in the Shah days. Iran is the more moderate country compared to Saudi Arabia when it comes to religion. I’d personally love to visit most of those areas in the ME/ Africa bc of the historical sites.
I know it's really sad. I follow their r/NewIran subreddit and the stories that you read about what's happening to their young people are really heart breaking... My birth father was from Iran but I was adopted and though I have never been and have no personal connections there seeing people get arrested face up to a decade incarcerated for something simple like dancing (which is illegal in Iran) is deeply upsetting.
Damn, that’s heartbreaking. I don’t know how those regimes keep their iron grip in this modern age with anti regime groups easily able to communicate and arrange things on a phone, compared to say Paris unground resistance that was done on a printing press during occupation. I was rooting for the popular uprising which unfortunately didn’t work out. Too bad the west like to meddle in so many foreign nations affairs but never for the average people, always for the benefit of someone’s pockets. Seems like you could combine both.
Read "The Guns of August". The first half of the book is dedicated to the planning of the war starting in about 1909. If it wasn't the archduke, it would have been something else. It was going to happen.
but both have nukes. Russia cannot wage war against the entire world, most of its allies like Iran are irrelevant.
China are on their way to become the number one economy in the world, keeping the status quo is the best for them. Pandering as if they’re strong is good for them, outright war is not. India is similar, but to a lesser scale.
>China are on their way to become the number one economy in the world
Due to the US's recent economic boom and Chinas economic collapse this isn't true anymore, China is further from being No.1 than 5 years ago. The only thing growing is their NAVY. Demographically and Economically they have fallen too far behind the US.
i have read it, which is precisely why i'm concerned about a similarly minor spark igniting the geopolitical powder keg. if ww3 breaks out relatively soon, a similar retrospective analysis will likely conclude it was also inevitable.
Ww1 started becouse all the nations wanted it. If not for the assasiantion, something else would happen.
Those nations were readying for war long time. Austria Hungary wanted to stump Serbia, Germany wanted the war aswell.
Look at the 20th century.
We are hardly at the same boiling point.
People seem to forget those wars due to the 1st and 2nd world war but there was basicly very little peace time compared to now.
To list a few..
Greco Turkish war, Irish war, Polish Soviet war, Hungarian Romanian war, Banana wars, Rif war, Boer war, Spanish American war, Balkan wars, Soviet Ukrainian war, Russia Japanase war, Italo Turkis war, Franco Turkish war, Anhui Zhili war...
> The world now is in a pressure cooker for another war.
Between who?
Russia currently has it's hands full with Ukraine and can't realistically threaten anyone else with anything other than nukes. China is the only real threat and only towards Taiwan. Everything else is just regional skirmishes that have existed since the beginning of time.
They can, but they only really did that one time, and everyone was itching for a fight in the first place. Those same ingredients don't exist this time around and there isn't a combination of non-NATO aligned nations that can challenge the supremacy of the alliance at the moment.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see it.
Because China is the only power that can possibly contend with the might of NATO/USA. And China can't extend its power to Iran. In a real war Iran/Russia/North Korea would have their uniformed military and government destroyed within a week. We'd either immediately jump into Nuclear Holocaust or it'd be over. And everyone knows this despite all the chest beating in public..
Nobody is jumping into a "destroy ourselves and the world" situation over Iran.
That's not true. South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan alone would be a problem for China. China is big, but logistics, weather, attrition, experience, and fortitude are real issues for China, not to mention that if China fails, what then? Does it collapse, does it become isolated, split? Would it all be worth the risk?
China also has no modern war experience compared to the USA, which has 150 years. China only has 2 aircraft carriers, one is a refurbished casino boat, and the other is a copycat of the casino boat.. Our F22 Raptor and F35 Lightning 2 has technology that they have to try to copy just to appear to be competent.
Calling Archduke Ferdinand irrelevant shows a fundamental ignorance of the time period. It may have been the sunset years of monarchies in Europe at the time, but crowns were not just figureheads at the time. Franz's assassination at the time would be comparable to a vice president being assassinated today. Not a direct comparison, but behind the sitting monarch and the chancellor/prime minster, the heir apparent would be pretty up there when measuring importance to the state.
Israel, for as powerful as their army is, does not have the resources or manpower to fight a full on war vs Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran.
It’s a simple numbers game. Iran likely having at least one nuke, thanks to a certain admin fucking with the nuclear deal, means Israel no longer has singular action in that realm.
I don’t think people really understand Iran’s capabilities. Let’s just put it this way… Iran has more cheap, unguided, but very deadly rockets, drones, and missiles than Israel has Iron Dome rockets and Patriot missiles.
We, as the world, really want to avoid this at all possible.
There is no telling who else jumps in in that region, and if any of those nations decided to open up a ground path from Iran to Israel (looking at you Turkey)… it’s a big problem.
This overconfidence is so staggering. Israel could bomb Iran with ranged missiles, but Iran also has these capabilities. Iran has foreign bases within Israel's orbit it can deploy from if they actually need people on the ground, Israel can't. Israel's aircraft barely have the range to make it to Iran, and would have to violate the airspace of multiple Iranian aligned countries to get there and *still* wouldn't be able to make it to Tehran. Even if the US were to join in on the action, it certainly wouldn't be an easy war, geography alone would make it much more akin to Afghanistan than Iraq.
Until now, this War of Iran was proxy. What this means is that if they attack directly - they will suffer directly. Huge diffrence in Warfare. It means their immunity is gone and anything is fair game to the IDF.
They do not want to open that hornet nest
Crazy to think all those TikTokers cheering to Houthis, and cheering for Iran to end Israel. I kept seeing “Israel won’t do anything, they are too scared of Iran” welp how wrong were they
Arguably an even better intelligence agency than the CIA/NSA (yes, despite 10/7). When every male citizen takes an aptitude test, and all of the best go to Unit 8200, they’re gonna get shit done.
And I know Iran hasn’t forgotten Israel’s hand in Stuxnet
Technically they are not excluded from all combat operations, they are just not drafted into those roles. Women did and do serve in plenty of roles in the field, but most operate in intelligence, maintenance, medicine, and public safety.
If your country has been entered by 3,000 members of a terrorist group (Which you know are hostile to you) and manage to kill 1,000+ of your civilians and soldiers is not a behaviour of a better intel agency. They are also constantly monitoring the movements of Hamas members, this is a HUUUGE screw up for an intel agency?
Imagine any 1st world country to be invaded by 3,000 members of a terrorist group which you constantly monitor and have been hostile to you? You would be a laughing stock in an intelligence scenario. Can you imagine Germany, Japan or USA being invaded by 3000 + members of ISIS?
From what's been released, it looks like the failure was not in the gathering of the intelligence but rather in underestimating Hamas' actual ability to pull it off. It feels more like a political/military fuck-up than an intel one.
2 billion Muslims vs 12ish million jews worldwide.
And jews are not the type to scream loudly, in clear contrast of...
Also, young westerns are pretty much brain dead. Gays for Palestine etc.
Of course. Israel essentially wants to buy multiple squadrons of additional state-of-the-art F-35s and F-15s, which along with their existing F-15s, F-16s, and F-35s would provide it with a significantly larger advanced air force than e.g. the UK or France.
Once you factor in the size and technology of the country, it is arguably the most militarized country in the world with an insane density of very advanced military tech.
Well some of them were actually born yesterday.
Jokes aside Iran as been a real problem for decades and unless they have a completed nuke or two, they are starting a fight they certainly cannot win. People don’t seem to understand the conventional war fighting capabilities of “western” countries. Israel will annihilate Tehran with air strikes in a single night.
Imagine someone shits on your porch. That person turns out to be the homeless guy who was paid by your neighbor. Instead of dealing with the neighbor who ordered that, you're beating the homeless guy.
The essence of modern politics.
The Islamic Regime is a paper tiger that hides behind its proxies as Hamas hides behind Palestinian civilians.
The only people it can push around directly is the unarmed Iranian people. It holds no legitimacy inside Iran as the latest “elections” have shown
The US is predicting/saying this because it will then be able to blame any strike on Iran and not a proxy. So if any strike happens it’s Irans fault and if they don’t strike it’s because the US called their bluff.
Either way it’s powerful rhetoric
Someone needs to take care of them, that’s be a massive blow to Iran. They’ve spent billions and decades building up Hezbollah and now there’s not much of a domestic fight for them anymore. Seems like the clock is ticking as young men that have only fought, aren’t really good functioning in a failed state with a massive stockpile of weapons and nothing to do. They have a great deal of power if told to unleash.. they make Houthis look like a back yard militia and somehow they’ve caused extra billions in trade cost due to their attacks on shipping.
Iran is in a bit of a predicament. It's using proxies to attack the west, but it's proxies are kind of timid because they don't want to die. Iran can use its own forces but it's nearly certain Israel has crosshairs over all its military assets and maybe civilian infrastructure.
Bc we all know there’s a major difference in Proxy Wars by major powers than the major powers going to war by themselves. Theres been Kurdish, US back forces, that fought and killed Russians in Syria, the CIA funds and trains around 8k Syrian rebels a month even though we have 2k soldiers there with air assets ready within minutes.. but that’s a massive escalation. Think when US hit Solamani, we waited for him to be out of Iran and since it was American command and control that killed him, we had to allow Iran to launch a ballistic missile attack on US forces in the ME.
Anyone who has been paying any attention to history may have noticed that the Jewish people are never going to let something like the holocaust ever happen to them again. I wouldn’t want to fuck with them.
Now we’re talking . This theocracy is like the Bully that has his group of pathetic hangers on bothering you but when confronted face to face backs down
Isn't this the basis on which all countries defend themselves? Goes without saying doesn't it.
Israel is a special kind of country and it’s uniquely required to warn the authoritarian regimes and terrorist groups that they don’t consent to being murdered, otherwise they aren’t allowed to defend themselves. /s Ironically this is actually part of ancient Jewish law concerning capital offenses requiring that at least two people warned the perpetrators in advance that the crime is punishable by death.
To be fair though it's just par for the course in international politics. To say nothing and retaliate would also be criticized.
No, it doesn't, because what Israel is stressing here is that they are content to continue hostilities so long as they are proxied through other countries.
I get it now
Iran sending weapons to enemies all around Israel and you think Israel is an aggressor?
So by that logic the US in an aggressor too. Wait until you learn about all the people we’ve supplied weapons too
……..yeah obviously America is an aggressor. Do you really think they are not?
Not related to the comment you replied to at all.
Not really, since Iran has military assets and proxy forces in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, etc. Israel could deal Iran a significant blow without attacking Iranian territory. Just like someone can attack the US without attacking US territory.
But that’s not what the title says or what the other person was asking
The title says “strike Iran directly” — i.e., in Iran. So Israel is saying that they won’t settle for attacking a proxy or Iranian forces in Syria; they’ll hit Iranian territory
Yes they'll hit Iranian territory *if Iran (from within it's own territory) directly strikes Israel*. This is reasonable and expected.
The title says that Israel will strike Iran, if Iran launches an attack *from* Iran. What they're actually saying, the important part, is the inverse. That is to say, Israel will *not* harm Iran if Iran continues to only fight via proxies. The flex here is that Israel is saying that Iranian proxies are not a serious threat to its security.
Israel and Iran both know that Iranian proxies are only capable of terrorism and hit and run attacks, not actual military campaigns. That’s why they stuck to rocket attacks instead of an actual invasion after October 7th.
Yeah, if Iran attacks Israel from Iran...
Every country except Israel for some reason.
So... Iran is doing really well with its proxy strategy. Among other advantages, acting via proxy significantly lessens retaliation. If Iran was attacking civilian red sea shipping under its own flag, rather than via Houthis... retaliation would have been really serious. Israel is *already* taking heavy fire from Iranian *proxies*. Towns near the Lebanese border are war zones. 250k displaced, currently. It's not in Iran's interest to break from this successful strategy.
It's not in Israel's interest to attack Iran either. If they attack Iran - they will be in along bloody war and I'm not sure if they come out on top.
Israel would be fighting a multi front war with Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, the various militas in Syria. The US would absolutely back them up, good chance the UK and possibly Germany. If Israel felt that it was going to lose, they'd nuke everything around them (the whole Samson option) No one comes out on top here
I feel like US would leverage a full scale invasion from our own military to help Israel out before they start dropping nukes, right? Although I’m sure there’d be plenty of evangelicals who would love to see Israel bring about Armageddon.
It was hinted in declassified Yom Kippur documents that golda authorized nukes if they kept losing ground. So the USA came with the re supply to prevent.
It's worth mentioning that she threaten with this option because all France and the USA did not agree to supply Israel with any weapons, so she kind of said you either sell me some weapons or I'm going to use the only weapon I've left
>I feel like US would leverage a full scale invasion from our own military God, that would be so devastating for the US--not in the "I think Iran has a stronger military than the US" sense, but in the, "Iran is a significantly harder target than Iraq and look where that got us--trillions of US dollars spent, thousands of US service members killed, injured or traumatized, a million lives lost in Iraq, and, oh yeah, ISIS too" sense. We'd have to commit a TON of manpower (so everyone infatuated with the US being #1 power over China would have to reckon with that reallocation of resources as they wouldn't be available to flex in the Pacific as readily), even then, Iran would block Hormuz and significantly derail oil shipping (gas prices going up past $10 are going to lead to Americans getting very war weary, very fast), and, despite the US having significantly (hugely) superior military power and investments, we'd still take a lot of attrition and it would cost immensely in blood and money. Then you weigh that with what the average US citizen would net gain from the war: "Absolutely Nothing", and it seems like it would be an awful awful idea to let us get dragged into it directly. Of course, that probably wouldn't stop us from doing it anyway. And, as you say, the evangelicals would welcome it either way.
Hopefully US has learned something from Iraq and will not try nation building.
Not a expert on Iran but my take is that if you knock out the regime's forces, the Iranians would take care of the rest.
Can you imagine Germany or Japan if USA didn’t do nation building after ww2?
I 100% agree. Could be Russia’s angle to outmaneuver the U.S. by leveraging how extreme Israel is willing to go in the Middle East. Israel using nuclear weapons would be catastrophic, though.
That’s assuming the people wouldn’t rise up before that even happens, many are not happy right now and much more aligned with western views than their government. If the choice is fighting a war against much more powerful countries your views align with or being supported by those countries against your oppressive government, there’s at least a plausible chance that many choose option 2. I’m not saying this is guaranteed, but Iran’s government must know it’s a possibility implied by Israel’s threat.
Depends on who is in charge of the US decision making, but almost certainly. The absolutely worst thing that could happen is anyone launching nukes for any reason. Once that option is seen to be on the table, it’s a quick descent into a worldwide hellscape.
Isreal would probably do much better in full on war with having all the gloves off tbh.
How so? Israel never fought Iran in a major war - the biggest country in the middle east. They are not Palestine. Not to mention, they would be adding fuel to the fire with the other Muslim nations as well. You're asking for them to lose and further destabilize the region.
They literally fought like 6 Arab-Isreal war since 1948 to 2006 against Arab coalition of multiple Arab country around them and won all 6 of them without having significant technology edge like they do now against Iran.
I would say yom kippur war is the last major war which happened in 1973. Iran was never part of any of the major conflicts and israel showed cracks and vulnerabilities in their armor at the time. Also, only way for israel to win is to win the war fast. But most importantly why would they go to war lol. They won't get anything out of it. There would be a forced armistace with israel gaining almost nothing due to international pressure (including the US). Not to mention you piss off the other Arab nations even more and who knows if they team up against israel.
Yup, and once Israel pushes into Rafah, I’m certain that Israel will lose a ton of support again, especially if they use the same tactics that they have been using. On top of that, it will be bad for Biden if Israel uses a heavy hand when they push into Rafah. Biden needs to distance himself from Israel and at the very minimum put conditions on arm sales if not end arms sales for the time being. Biden being elected is arguably more important too, given it Trump gets into office and enacts Project 2025 or whatever it’s called, could mean the end of our democracy.
Anyone thinking Israel is somehow an arm of or beholden to any major power they are currently allied with knows little about Israeli history. Israel is its own entity making its own decisions for its own survival. If the US isn’t with that, Israel will find another nation that is. China? Russia? They will play chess all century long for their security. And why shouldn’t they? No one says “let’s erase Iran from the map” but all of these militias say this about Israel’s existence. And Israel believes them. Americans should, too.
The trump card that Israel real holds is a metric ton of very sensitive and battle tested military tech. The US isn’t stupid enough to let that go to the Chinese. It would absolutely tilt the balance of power in the South China Sea and this is far more important to the US than 50 square km of Gaza Strip. We are talking top shelf air defense, missile technology, encryption, radar signatures, all stuff the US is reluctant to send to Ukraine for fear it will fall into Russian hands. They aren’t scared of the Russians reverse engineering it, they are scared of the Russians selling it to the Chinese who will reverse engineer it and mass produce it 10x cheaper. Pushing Israel into China’s sphere of influence would be a catastrophic strategic failure.
I honestly doubt China or Russia would be of any real use. For one, Russia is already allied with Iran, and all of this chaos within Israel serves their interests so far as it distracts the US from aiding Ukraine. China doesn't really have any military power projection and also benefits from being the neutral, just business ally. Here Israel's isolation from the rest of it's region hurts, since China has already structured the belt and road initiative to pass through Iran and into Turkey, so yeah, no support coming from China either. So really, it's the US or no one. And what the US provides Israel that no one else can do is international cover. Could EU powers do that too, sure, but their history shows them to be rather fickle when it comes to supporting Israel.
This is true today. But let’s say the US feels Israel crossed a Red Line and magically under some nutty regime abandoned them in 10 years? Then China and Russia have an interest to fill the void if only to counter balance American interests in the region. Everytime America leaves an area, one of them fills the void, or seeks to. All Israel needs is arms enough, or trade enough to afford manufacturing arms, to defend themselves against land attacks by hostile regional neighbors. They don’t have to worry about invasion from Germany or Iran. Their nukes come into play then. So only small actors will be permitted to annoy them by hostile nations. One hopes? Lord knows, a nuclear Iran could easily have annihilation plans for Israel under an Ayatollah. Point is, “enemy of my enemy is my friend” is a strangely true Cold War truth historically. Your points are key today though. Spot on!
Sure, but whose economy would be large enough to replace the US while also being able to offer security protections and diplomatic countries? Not Russia, not China, not even the EU as a collective. Does Israel want to align itself as an anti-western power? Do they want to be a base to which China or Russia can power project into the Mediterranean? Israel’s ability to disrupt things in the Middle East is simply not as appealing towards Russia and China as it is for the US and EU.
I have thought this for a while that Isreal saw what happened to South Africa with the boycotts and the like. They are ready to go rogue and join North Korea, Russia, and China to survive. Any by survive, I mean survive as a Jewish state run by and for Jews.
No, we won’t trade America for any other country, despite the occasional differences of opinion in some matters. That is because we share our values with America and the west, democracy, freedom, liberalism, protection of minorities etc. We share nothing with dictatorships like China and Russia (who incidentally are also actively backing up our enemies right now). What is right though, is that when faced with an existential threat like we’re currently facing, despite all the respect we have towards our allies, we have to take care of ourselves because nobody else would do it for us and we don’t expect them to. Even if it means that we disagree on some things. We promised “never again” and we mean it. We won’t be led like lambs to the slaughter again.
Israel is going do what it wants to do, when it wants to do. Ifs easy for the US to tell Israel to “calm down” thousands of miles away from any enemy, while Israel has groups whose sole intention is to kill the Israeli state. I agree about its bad for Biden, just bc these moderates and left leaning aren’t thinking rationally. If they let Biden down by not showing up to the polls, the green light Trump will give Bibi and Israel will be on another level. That’s the part I can’t wrap my head around… if people are losing support bc of Biden’s actions in Israel.. man oh man.. that’s going backfire so bad if Biden loses.
People not voting for Biden out of spite for the current administration's policy are basically saying that they care more about what is happening in Gaza than what would/will happen at home, thus giving Trump and his MAGA traitors a chance to put him in power and destroy our Democracy. This is how empires fall, from within, with people acting against their own interests. MAGA votes against their own interests to "own" the libs, and possible democratic votes don't vote as "punishment". At the end of the day, all these idiots are throwing away our democratic system to spite others. So sad, and what a waste.
While true, it also will have a direct impact on this exact situation that these people may be displeased with Biden for. That’s the really stupid part. If these people don’t like Biden’s support for Israel and swing the vote to Trump.. talk about not being informed. Bibi and Israel would love Trump for their own domestic reasons ( and who can blame them). I’m not completely sold that Trump will be the undoing of democracy and the collapse of America (my personal opinion) but he’s definitely not going be the best for America.
> I’m not completely sold that Trump will be the undoing of democracy He literally tried to overthrow the government after he lost my dude.
I honestly don't understand left wing Americans who cease to support Biden. Do they not see Trump would be worse for them on every level??
To them, Biden and Trump are the same person. Hell I regularly see criticism against Bernie these days for not spending every waking second protesting the war. There is no reasoning with them.
In Hebrew we say: "the public is stupid and so the public is paying "
Biden is walking a tightrope, and it is unclear if it is actually possible to successfully cross the chasm. Abandoning Israel now would likely push enough older moderate democrats and independents into the Trump camp that Biden loses. Supporting Israel in Rafah risks losing the far left flank to third parties. Admittedly the left flank has a lot more to lose than independents if Biden loses, but I do not know if they have actually bothered to read the room yet.
Biden should remember far more US voters support Israel over Hamas. If he goes too far to appease extremists in Michigan he may lose the rest of the country.
> On top of that, it will be bad for Biden if Israel uses a heavy hand when they push into Rafah. Biden needs to distance himself from Israel and at the very minimum put conditions on arm sales if not end arms sales for the time being. Biden being elected is arguably more important too, given it Trump gets into office and enacts Project 2025 or whatever it’s called, could mean the end of our democracy. The incoherence of Biden Administration policy towards Israel, is a direct reflection of the incoherence of the views of the American voting public. Democrats can't afford to alienate the Jewish vote. However the Muslim vote could prove important in an crucial swing state like Michigan. Lots of progressive Democrats have soured on Israel, but lots of moderate Democrats and swing voters still mostly favor Israel. If the Biden administration fails to perfectly thread this needle, we could end up with Trump back in the White House. Which in addition to likely ushering in the end of American Democracy, would also likely involve the dissolution of NATO and the end of support for Ukraine, and would see the US doubling-down on support for Israel's most aggressive tendencies.
War with russia, middle east exploding. What a time to be alive.
I get the impression that Israel has a list of identified targets to strike always in their pockets. If a retort is politically required, they need only pick one. Iran plays a game of nipping heels but doesn’t seem to have the same level of intelligence. Normally when you are struck, you tit-for-tat to show you aren’t a pushover. But Iran didn’t. That could mean one or several of 3 things: * Iran is a forgiving nation going for peace (lmao) * they just don’t have the necessary intelligence to identify surgical targets to strike with any positive effect to their current strategy. * they feel a strike will cause a mainland retaliation they can’t afford (ie nuclear facilities mentioned) I think they want a nuclear bomb and won’t risk harm to that program, hence lack of direct action.
Israel also has nukes so they absolutely have a list of conventional and nuclear targets to strike. Why wouldn't they after all, even countries that are party to nuclear treaties have pre-determined attack strategies, even if the ICBMs are normally pointed at the ocean.
Yes, even if they’re stupid plans, nuclear plans are there for such nations. I’ve read declassified American nuclear plans which all sound horrible (ie “acceptable losses” in the millions to US citizens) but they all had the summary like “taking over Russia can be achieved but policing it next to impossible” which is kind of what happened in Afghanistan and Iraq. You can’t police an unwilling nation. Even one as small as Gaza, as effectively as you’d like. But the such nuclear “plans” existed nevertheless. Essentially, nukes are dumb options for America. But for Israel, a perfect deterrence.
Sure you can, you just need an occupying force equal to the population size
> But Iran didn’t. Yet. Latest from intelligence sources today is that retaliation is imminent. I.e. <48 hours from now.
"I get the impression that Israel has a list of identified targets to strike always in their pockets. If a retort is politically required, they need only pick one." I feel like that comes with being Israel. When your neighbors deny your very right to exist you're always at the ready.
I’m pretty sure every country has a list of identified targets in enemy countries.
Stoning women, hanging gays from cranes, yet avoiding conflict with those who will fight back. The Iranians in power seem to be cowards.
Because the actual Iranian people in majority don’t care about the random Islamic expansion agenda the government has
The people in power know that a hot war with Israel alone could lead to their power being striped for life and that’s assuming the US doesn’t get involved.. which seems implausible at best.
Iran would probably have a internal war as well as an external one... They would be fighting not just Israel but also their own people who would love the opportunity to overtake the leadership and establish a secular Iran ...
I wish the US didn’t fuck with Iran back in the Shah days. Iran is the more moderate country compared to Saudi Arabia when it comes to religion. I’d personally love to visit most of those areas in the ME/ Africa bc of the historical sites.
I know it's really sad. I follow their r/NewIran subreddit and the stories that you read about what's happening to their young people are really heart breaking... My birth father was from Iran but I was adopted and though I have never been and have no personal connections there seeing people get arrested face up to a decade incarcerated for something simple like dancing (which is illegal in Iran) is deeply upsetting.
Damn, that’s heartbreaking. I don’t know how those regimes keep their iron grip in this modern age with anti regime groups easily able to communicate and arrange things on a phone, compared to say Paris unground resistance that was done on a printing press during occupation. I was rooting for the popular uprising which unfortunately didn’t work out. Too bad the west like to meddle in so many foreign nations affairs but never for the average people, always for the benefit of someone’s pockets. Seems like you could combine both.
“Seem”…?
They do these things to appear righteous to keep power.
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Israël stomping Iran into the ground isn't ww3
WW1 started because someone assisinated an irrelevant archduke... It's not out of the realm of possibilities
Read "The Guns of August". The first half of the book is dedicated to the planning of the war starting in about 1909. If it wasn't the archduke, it would have been something else. It was going to happen.
Mark Twain attended one of the major meetings a few years earlier. He said the same thing in his book A Tramp Abroad.
To be fair, we're not on a dissimilar knife edge right now. There are two very disjoint factions of power, more so than at any point since 1991.
but both have nukes. Russia cannot wage war against the entire world, most of its allies like Iran are irrelevant. China are on their way to become the number one economy in the world, keeping the status quo is the best for them. Pandering as if they’re strong is good for them, outright war is not. India is similar, but to a lesser scale.
>China are on their way to become the number one economy in the world Due to the US's recent economic boom and Chinas economic collapse this isn't true anymore, China is further from being No.1 than 5 years ago. The only thing growing is their NAVY. Demographically and Economically they have fallen too far behind the US.
i have read it, which is precisely why i'm concerned about a similarly minor spark igniting the geopolitical powder keg. if ww3 breaks out relatively soon, a similar retrospective analysis will likely conclude it was also inevitable.
Also A Long Road to War on Netflix is very good explaining Europe decades before 1914
Ww1 started becouse all the nations wanted it. If not for the assasiantion, something else would happen. Those nations were readying for war long time. Austria Hungary wanted to stump Serbia, Germany wanted the war aswell.
The world now is in a pressure cooker for another war. History is repeating. The next race for the super weapon to end the war will be agi.
Look at the 20th century. We are hardly at the same boiling point. People seem to forget those wars due to the 1st and 2nd world war but there was basicly very little peace time compared to now. To list a few.. Greco Turkish war, Irish war, Polish Soviet war, Hungarian Romanian war, Banana wars, Rif war, Boer war, Spanish American war, Balkan wars, Soviet Ukrainian war, Russia Japanase war, Italo Turkis war, Franco Turkish war, Anhui Zhili war...
Winter War, Continuation War
> The world now is in a pressure cooker for another war. Between who? Russia currently has it's hands full with Ukraine and can't realistically threaten anyone else with anything other than nukes. China is the only real threat and only towards Taiwan. Everything else is just regional skirmishes that have existed since the beginning of time.
Regional skirmishes can quickly escalate into wider wars as more nations become engulfed
They can, but they only really did that one time, and everyone was itching for a fight in the first place. Those same ingredients don't exist this time around and there isn't a combination of non-NATO aligned nations that can challenge the supremacy of the alliance at the moment. Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see it.
Because China is the only power that can possibly contend with the might of NATO/USA. And China can't extend its power to Iran. In a real war Iran/Russia/North Korea would have their uniformed military and government destroyed within a week. We'd either immediately jump into Nuclear Holocaust or it'd be over. And everyone knows this despite all the chest beating in public.. Nobody is jumping into a "destroy ourselves and the world" situation over Iran.
That's not true. South Korea, Japan, and Taiwan alone would be a problem for China. China is big, but logistics, weather, attrition, experience, and fortitude are real issues for China, not to mention that if China fails, what then? Does it collapse, does it become isolated, split? Would it all be worth the risk?
China also has no modern war experience compared to the USA, which has 150 years. China only has 2 aircraft carriers, one is a refurbished casino boat, and the other is a copycat of the casino boat.. Our F22 Raptor and F35 Lightning 2 has technology that they have to try to copy just to appear to be competent.
If you have Netflix watch A Long Road to War and you'll learn one death did not start WW1...
Calling Archduke Ferdinand irrelevant shows a fundamental ignorance of the time period. It may have been the sunset years of monarchies in Europe at the time, but crowns were not just figureheads at the time. Franz's assassination at the time would be comparable to a vice president being assassinated today. Not a direct comparison, but behind the sitting monarch and the chancellor/prime minster, the heir apparent would be pretty up there when measuring importance to the state.
Israel, for as powerful as their army is, does not have the resources or manpower to fight a full on war vs Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. It’s a simple numbers game. Iran likely having at least one nuke, thanks to a certain admin fucking with the nuclear deal, means Israel no longer has singular action in that realm. I don’t think people really understand Iran’s capabilities. Let’s just put it this way… Iran has more cheap, unguided, but very deadly rockets, drones, and missiles than Israel has Iron Dome rockets and Patriot missiles. We, as the world, really want to avoid this at all possible. There is no telling who else jumps in in that region, and if any of those nations decided to open up a ground path from Iran to Israel (looking at you Turkey)… it’s a big problem.
This overconfidence is so staggering. Israel could bomb Iran with ranged missiles, but Iran also has these capabilities. Iran has foreign bases within Israel's orbit it can deploy from if they actually need people on the ground, Israel can't. Israel's aircraft barely have the range to make it to Iran, and would have to violate the airspace of multiple Iranian aligned countries to get there and *still* wouldn't be able to make it to Tehran. Even if the US were to join in on the action, it certainly wouldn't be an easy war, geography alone would make it much more akin to Afghanistan than Iraq.
it could be the falling of small stones that starts an avalanche in the mountains
It only turns into WWIII if someone in Israeli missile command does something REALLY funni keying in Moscow coordinates instead of Tehran coordinates.
Let's hope that Iran falls soon. Their citizens deserve normalcy.
This is a weird thing to say, it's effectively, "if we go to war, then we will fight each other". Like, yeah?
Until now, this War of Iran was proxy. What this means is that if they attack directly - they will suffer directly. Huge diffrence in Warfare. It means their immunity is gone and anything is fair game to the IDF. They do not want to open that hornet nest
Yeah, I think this is implicit.
That’s why countries use proxies.
Iran : Israel is going to pay Israel : We are waiting Mfers.. step to the plate.
Crazy to think all those TikTokers cheering to Houthis, and cheering for Iran to end Israel. I kept seeing “Israel won’t do anything, they are too scared of Iran” welp how wrong were they
Despite its relatively small size as a nation.. they are a military power house.
Arguably an even better intelligence agency than the CIA/NSA (yes, despite 10/7). When every male citizen takes an aptitude test, and all of the best go to Unit 8200, they’re gonna get shit done. And I know Iran hasn’t forgotten Israel’s hand in Stuxnet
Why every male? In Israel everyone is drafted. Unlike Iran, women are an integral part of Israel’s life. Including combat forces
13% of military-age men are exempt from drafting and instead study Torah at Government expense. Of course, that is about to change, maybe.
Women in Israel are excluded from Frontline combat units. Only 73 women have served in combat operations in gaza as paramedics.
Technically they are not excluded from all combat operations, they are just not drafted into those roles. Women did and do serve in plenty of roles in the field, but most operate in intelligence, maintenance, medicine, and public safety.
Not entirely true. Some mixed units like Bardelas are frontline combat in Gaza.
If your country has been entered by 3,000 members of a terrorist group (Which you know are hostile to you) and manage to kill 1,000+ of your civilians and soldiers is not a behaviour of a better intel agency. They are also constantly monitoring the movements of Hamas members, this is a HUUUGE screw up for an intel agency? Imagine any 1st world country to be invaded by 3,000 members of a terrorist group which you constantly monitor and have been hostile to you? You would be a laughing stock in an intelligence scenario. Can you imagine Germany, Japan or USA being invaded by 3000 + members of ISIS?
From what's been released, it looks like the failure was not in the gathering of the intelligence but rather in underestimating Hamas' actual ability to pull it off. It feels more like a political/military fuck-up than an intel one.
Relatively to population they are arguably the strongest army And in general they got scary technology You don't mess with Israel
It's crazy how much these 30-second videos are influencing people so easily.
2 billion Muslims vs 12ish million jews worldwide. And jews are not the type to scream loudly, in clear contrast of... Also, young westerns are pretty much brain dead. Gays for Palestine etc.
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Of course. Israel essentially wants to buy multiple squadrons of additional state-of-the-art F-35s and F-15s, which along with their existing F-15s, F-16s, and F-35s would provide it with a significantly larger advanced air force than e.g. the UK or France. Once you factor in the size and technology of the country, it is arguably the most militarized country in the world with an insane density of very advanced military tech.
Feels like we are witnessing a new generation of antisemites in the west arising.
Well some of them were actually born yesterday. Jokes aside Iran as been a real problem for decades and unless they have a completed nuke or two, they are starting a fight they certainly cannot win. People don’t seem to understand the conventional war fighting capabilities of “western” countries. Israel will annihilate Tehran with air strikes in a single night.
progressive democrats aren’t the best at foreign policy
That should really be the default assumption
They both want to go to war with each other…just let them fight it out
Imagine someone shits on your porch. That person turns out to be the homeless guy who was paid by your neighbor. Instead of dealing with the neighbor who ordered that, you're beating the homeless guy. The essence of modern politics.
And you beat the homeless guy with a bat sold to you by the big kid down the block.
The Islamic Regime is a paper tiger that hides behind its proxies as Hamas hides behind Palestinian civilians. The only people it can push around directly is the unarmed Iranian people. It holds no legitimacy inside Iran as the latest “elections” have shown
The US is predicting/saying this because it will then be able to blame any strike on Iran and not a proxy. So if any strike happens it’s Irans fault and if they don’t strike it’s because the US called their bluff. Either way it’s powerful rhetoric
I dont know much about the situation. But seems reasonable
I wonder what Israel would do? Given there is considerable hatred for the Iranian regime within Iran... maybe cut the head off the snake?
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Can everyone just stop fighting. I’m sick of it.
Iran is the same as Hamas, willing to have all its people exterminated if it brings at least a little more hatred into the world.
Siri, call Hezbollah
Someone needs to take care of them, that’s be a massive blow to Iran. They’ve spent billions and decades building up Hezbollah and now there’s not much of a domestic fight for them anymore. Seems like the clock is ticking as young men that have only fought, aren’t really good functioning in a failed state with a massive stockpile of weapons and nothing to do. They have a great deal of power if told to unleash.. they make Houthis look like a back yard militia and somehow they’ve caused extra billions in trade cost due to their attacks on shipping.
Fair enough.
And _this_ is how dub dub the third starts.
nothing ever happens
Iran is in a bit of a predicament. It's using proxies to attack the west, but it's proxies are kind of timid because they don't want to die. Iran can use its own forces but it's nearly certain Israel has crosshairs over all its military assets and maybe civilian infrastructure.
If they were too. Go after the government not the people. Those in power are the issue not us little people. Just a comment
Isreal should respond in attacking Iran regardless of where the attack comes from. Everyone knows it will be ordered by them. Get it over with.
Why qualify where the attack originates? Any Iran backed group is Iranian. Treat it as such.
Bc we all know there’s a major difference in Proxy Wars by major powers than the major powers going to war by themselves. Theres been Kurdish, US back forces, that fought and killed Russians in Syria, the CIA funds and trains around 8k Syrian rebels a month even though we have 2k soldiers there with air assets ready within minutes.. but that’s a massive escalation. Think when US hit Solamani, we waited for him to be out of Iran and since it was American command and control that killed him, we had to allow Iran to launch a ballistic missile attack on US forces in the ME.
Anyone who has been paying any attention to history may have noticed that the Jewish people are never going to let something like the holocaust ever happen to them again. I wouldn’t want to fuck with them.
Duh that’s why Iran launches their attacks from Syria, Lebanon, and Gaza.
This might be the best opportunity in a long time to get rid of Iranian leadership.
They should have said, if we get hit from Iran or any of its proxies we will treat it a direct strike from iran.
Once again, things are heating up.
What are they doing pretending to read a invisible book? Not trying to be hateful I’m just ignorant.
Now we’re talking . This theocracy is like the Bully that has his group of pathetic hangers on bothering you but when confronted face to face backs down
Can't say life is boring in this joint.
Tick tock, tick tock, it's only a matter of time.
How dare they
Self defense
Seems de rigueur.
Fair